I am so so happy you see the nuances in Melba's motivation. So many don't understand or underestimate how the lack of unconditional love effects a person. Melba gets a lot of hate and it breaks my heart. Yes, needs to be held accountable for her actions but it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve compassion and a chance to work through her trauma and a chance to change.
Great reaction. I will say like it or not, Holden is more than the Captain in name only. Granted he's more subtle and still growing into the role after actively avoiding responsibility for decades, but look at his history, what his family tried to do with him and then compare it to what he's doing in these past 2 seasons. What's amazing about this series, it's a case study in the arc and often growth of a character, with the exception of one central character who I will not mention.
12:49 julie is sitting under the tree that her dad told errinwright was her favorite back in season 2. the tree she taught herself archery by shooting arrows at
AKA "The One Where We All Realise We'd Follow Drummer Through the Gates of Hell" :). (plenty of shows do big "event" episodes well but where I think "The Expanse" excels is with the episode _after_ - they never feel like a let down, they're just "big" in a different way)
You wouldn't recall, but Errinwright had mentioned Mao's "other daughter" a couple of times and called her by name once. Errinwright "...Mao has another daughter he adores." "I'm a wrong reason now?" Yep, Drummer exposes that it's very personal for her. There are so many strong women in The Expanse, and they're not all the same kind of strong woman, nor do they emulate men. Anna and Drummer are both strong women, yet very different and even yet very feminine in their individual ways. Even Mei was strong and assertive, and still a little girl.
The wild thing is, according to one of the creators, the chemistry between them wasn’t in the script originally. But then based on Cara Gee’s performance and chemistry with Naomi, they decided to just lean into it and work it into the show.
I understand why many thinks this but i differ to think otherwise: you can have strong bond, friendship with someone not feeling romantic way. And personally i had this vibe. Drummer isn't a shy type, would have tried to move in on her. We never witnessed anything even implicating this.
One of the reasons why Melba is so in distress after having killed her mentor in the space ship she was installing bombs in is because the guy genuinely loved her like a father love his daughter. He was acting more like a dad that her own ever did by being supportive, encouraging her and showing her the tricks of the trade. And she killed him to avoid being caught, but she genuinely loved him as mentor and surrogate father and it's destroying her that she had to kill him. I didn't like her at all at first, but you grow to fill pity for her not being able to get over the fact that his real father was an asshole and that he never deserved her love for even one second. But she chose her own path and we will see where it get her.
I looked up what ProtoMiller was talking about when Holden asked to know what he knew. A closed timelike curve is fairly easy to grasp at a surface level, it's just a path through spacetime that's closed, that is the object travels through space and time in a loop. A Lorentzian manifold, on the other hand, "is an important special case of a pseudo-Riemannian manifold in which the signature of the metric is (1, n−1)." Ok... sure, and "A pseudo-Riemannian manifold is a differentiable manifold with a metric tensor that is everywhere nondegenerate." So, anyway, the crime scene...
At this point of the show during my first watch through I sympathised with "Melba" despite disliking her for trying to frame Holden. The flashbacks to her interaction with her father were just brutal. I mean, the way Jules Pierre cut her down emotionally with the line "What do you do?.....You plan parties". And you can tell by the ease with which he just said it that he is well practiced at slinging these verbal barbs at her. The emotional equivalent of a gut punch, delivered with the casual cruelty of a parent who has absolutely no concern for the effect his words would have on his child. also 6:29 that theres a glimpse of what Amos would have been like if he didn't have the self awareness to seek out people who would help him curb his worst tendencies.
I love your insights on 'Melba' and Naomi. Please keep 'em coming! My favourite scene is of 'Miller' looking in the mirror, as if he's never done it before and isn't sure what he'll see.
@@Drummer4President I'd argue that he's not the captain of *this ship,* but he's still a captain. There are some differences how real navies around the world handle the captain of one ship temporarily being on another ship, in how to address them etc., but it boils down to that.
@@okreylos he introduces himself as “Commander” so I’m sticking with that lol I love him. Him and Drummer are my fav pairing in the whole show. He’s just not technically Captain right now lol
@@Drummer4President That's a fine interpretation. Mine is that he is the captain of the Tynan, on temporary assignment as first officer of the Behemoth. Him using "commander" makes sense. In the british Royal Navy, if I remember correctly, his (fictitious) rank in the exact same circumstance would have been "commodore." Which is actually a higher rank than captain, but is bestowed so that there is only a single captain on a ship, but the visiting captain is not temporarily demoted. It gets weird when an army captain, which is a completely different and much lower rank than navy captain, does duty on a ship. They'll get "bumped up" to major for the duration, which is the next higher army rank.
Keep in mind that the way Belters love must be different from what we know, perhaps even different from what we understand as polyamory. In that context, Drummer and Naomi still seem to have a very deep connection even though Naomi doesn't reciprocate how Drummer feels.
This episode (of many others later) is fully responsible for me just yelling "MILLER!" from time to time, when I need to let off steam, and so on. Its so raw, annoyed but hopeful at the same time.
One of my favourite too. Has everything :) I love your reactions to this, I cry too much at them too! lol. Drummer is a great character on the show, written and acted SO well. And yeah, pretty sure Drummer is IN love with Naomi but Naomi "just" loves Drummer... sad times.
Just want to say though. I think with Naomi it's more she doesn't let herself trust people and so doesn't always tell the truth because of her trauma. As much as impulsiveness, it's her holding back and not wanting to get close or hurt or betrayed again.
I'm not going to go into how long Melba's story line goes, but I will say that it's well done and it's a good arc. I think you'll find it satisfying - or as satisfying as a situation like this can be. And I like that her arc is in the story. Yes, it's a very parochial story mixed in with all these high political machinations, but that's life. It's big and it's small. And each can affect the other.
Edit: your vulnerability in the outro is so amazing. All the hugs to you continuing to heal and I hope any viewers with similar issues feel less alone. ❤
Naomi is the worst character. Capricious, disloyal, self-centered, narcissistic. She breaks faith regularly, but takes no quarter when others “wrong” her. She’s needy, she has trouble putting herself in the shoes of anyone who isn’t a Belter. And frankly has proven herself to be a bad friend to the Roci crew and the OPA. She has now stranded her OPA crew in the spacial anomaly without a chief engineer. In the Navy abandoning one’s post is a court martial worthy offense- But on a whim Naomi decided she’d rather play with her old friends, on the Roci (assuming they even want her back). Than do her duty to her crew and hold herself loyal to the crew she enlisted in.
It pisses me off that everyone worships the ground she walks on. Everyone goes on about giving the protomolucule to the belt was a 'necessary and brave' thing to do. Handing over a world destroying tool to a group that has factions that are cool with genocide is incredibly fucking stupid.
Turns out it's payday and I'm rich, I'm out of here, if that missile doesn't kill the Roci and wake up MegladonwhatckthedoorsandcornerswhodoesnotworkforMelba.
You know the Punisher is on the Rocinante, I do not want to tell old pirates what to do, but is Avasarala a worse threat than Thomas Jane without a hat?
nah the sexual advances didn't do anything. amos is just a sociopath :) people tend to forget that because people love him so much. the only reason amos does good things is not because he knows it's good, it's because he is following naomi and holden's lead. if they ever died and amos was left alone, he would only ever solve problems the only way he knows how, at the end of a gun :p that's why i love amos. after everything he went through as a kid, all the trauma, he is now a sociopath. but he trusts holden and naomi to always do the right thing so as long as he follows their lead, he knows he is one of the good guys doing the right thing. you will see a good parallel to amos being trust into a position of leadership without the guiding light in season 4 : )
We don't see it portrayed onscreen, but I deem it likely that Melissa wallowed in the Mao family wealth and happily lived a princess life. I suspect Jules Pierre prodded her a lot to take a more serious approach with the expectation she could one day take over from him in the absence of any sons, but she was not at all interested in that life or that pathway or the effort it would take. She may have been entirely deserving of that "party planner" insult. Do children have any obligation to live the life their parent plans for them? Even if the love of the parent is, in fact, unconditional, some gratitude for being in the receiving end seems only fair to me.
He had 2 sons. Errinwright said so in 2x6. “He has 2 sons and another daughter he adores” And no child should “deserve” insults from their parent, just because they want to plan parties.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
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Melba has an implant in her palate that directly converts Daddy Issues into raw, physical strength.
🤣😂 Daddy issues into raw strength... I am dying here...
Best explanation so far.😂
I am so so happy you see the nuances in Melba's motivation. So many don't understand or underestimate how the lack of unconditional love effects a person. Melba gets a lot of hate and it breaks my heart. Yes, needs to be held accountable for her actions but it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve compassion and a chance to work through her trauma and a chance to change.
That was Drummer taking off as the queen of the universe
@@remliqa Queen for a day
And brooo Thomas James' acting is amazing
Great reaction. I will say like it or not, Holden is more than the Captain in name only. Granted he's more subtle and still growing into the role after actively avoiding responsibility for decades, but look at his history, what his family tried to do with him and then compare it to what he's doing in these past 2 seasons. What's amazing about this series, it's a case study in the arc and often growth of a character, with the exception of one central character who I will not mention.
12:49 julie is sitting under the tree that her dad told errinwright was her favorite back in season 2. the tree she taught herself archery by shooting arrows at
AKA "The One Where We All Realise We'd Follow Drummer Through the Gates of Hell" :).
(plenty of shows do big "event" episodes well but where I think "The Expanse" excels is with the episode _after_ - they never feel like a let down, they're just "big" in a different way)
You wouldn't recall, but Errinwright had mentioned Mao's "other daughter" a couple of times and called her by name once. Errinwright "...Mao has another daughter he adores."
"I'm a wrong reason now?" Yep, Drummer exposes that it's very personal for her.
There are so many strong women in The Expanse, and they're not all the same kind of strong woman, nor do they emulate men. Anna and Drummer are both strong women, yet very different and even yet very feminine in their individual ways. Even Mei was strong and assertive, and still a little girl.
Drummer 1000% is in love with Naomi, but Naomi's in love with Holden.
The wild thing is, according to one of the creators, the chemistry between them wasn’t in the script originally. But then based on Cara Gee’s performance and chemistry with Naomi, they decided to just lean into it and work it into the show.
Poor Drummer. Love stinks. 😢
And Joanie loves Chachi!
(Garshk, I’m old.)
@@AnubisblackYou love her, but she loves him, and he loves somebody else, you just can’t win.
I understand why many thinks this but i differ to think otherwise: you can have strong bond, friendship with someone not feeling romantic way. And personally i had this vibe. Drummer isn't a shy type, would have tried to move in on her. We never witnessed anything even implicating this.
One of the reasons why Melba is so in distress after having killed her mentor in the space ship she was installing bombs in is because the guy genuinely loved her like a father love his daughter. He was acting more like a dad that her own ever did by being supportive, encouraging her and showing her the tricks of the trade. And she killed him to avoid being caught, but she genuinely loved him as mentor and surrogate father and it's destroying her that she had to kill him. I didn't like her at all at first, but you grow to fill pity for her not being able to get over the fact that his real father was an asshole and that he never deserved her love for even one second. But she chose her own path and we will see where it get her.
I looked up what ProtoMiller was talking about when Holden asked to know what he knew. A closed timelike curve is fairly easy to grasp at a surface level, it's just a path through spacetime that's closed, that is the object travels through space and time in a loop. A Lorentzian manifold, on the other hand, "is an important special case of a pseudo-Riemannian manifold in which the signature of the metric is (1, n−1)." Ok... sure, and "A pseudo-Riemannian manifold is a differentiable manifold with a metric tensor that is everywhere nondegenerate." So, anyway, the crime scene...
Dr. Anna Volovodov must be protected at all costs
At this point of the show during my first watch through I sympathised with "Melba" despite disliking her for trying to frame Holden. The flashbacks to her interaction with her father were just brutal. I mean, the way Jules Pierre cut her down emotionally with the line "What do you do?.....You plan parties". And you can tell by the ease with which he just said it that he is well practiced at slinging these verbal barbs at her. The emotional equivalent of a gut punch, delivered with the casual cruelty of a parent who has absolutely no concern for the effect his words would have on his child.
also
6:29 that theres a glimpse of what Amos would have been like if he didn't have the self awareness to seek out people who would help him curb his worst tendencies.
Nice reaction!
These are some of the best episodes of TV! Looking forward to the next one!
I love your insights on 'Melba' and Naomi. Please keep 'em coming!
My favourite scene is of 'Miller' looking in the mirror, as if he's never done it before and isn't sure what he'll see.
New from the ring near Uranus. With a drop of blue glue and an emotional speech, you can even get the Behemoth in there
6:48 apparently Amos yelling "Answer me!" was not in the script and freaked everyone out
Elizabeth Mitchell (Rev. Dr. Anna) is really awesome
"Pirate guy..." Show some respect! :) That is Captain Klaes Ashford, the Ghost Knife of Callisto, to you!
*not technically a captain right now.
@@Drummer4President I'd argue that he's not the captain of *this ship,* but he's still a captain. There are some differences how real navies around the world handle the captain of one ship temporarily being on another ship, in how to address them etc., but it boils down to that.
@@okreylos he introduces himself as “Commander” so I’m sticking with that lol
I love him. Him and Drummer are my fav pairing in the whole show. He’s just not technically Captain right now lol
@@Drummer4President That's a fine interpretation. Mine is that he is the captain of the Tynan, on temporary assignment as first officer of the Behemoth.
Him using "commander" makes sense. In the british Royal Navy, if I remember correctly, his (fictitious) rank in the exact same circumstance would have been "commodore." Which is actually a higher rank than captain, but is bestowed so that there is only a single captain on a ship, but the visiting captain is not temporarily demoted.
It gets weird when an army captain, which is a completely different and much lower rank than navy captain, does duty on a ship. They'll get "bumped up" to major for the duration, which is the next higher army rank.
Yeah the last episode was crazy
but I hope it gets better in this episode
have a wonderful Monday Thanks Meg.
🎵🎶🎼🎄🎀🎄🎼🎶💖
Keep in mind that the way Belters love must be different from what we know, perhaps even different from what we understand as polyamory. In that context, Drummer and Naomi still seem to have a very deep connection even though Naomi doesn't reciprocate how Drummer feels.
This episode (of many others later) is fully responsible for me just yelling "MILLER!" from time to time, when I need to let off steam, and so on.
Its so raw, annoyed but hopeful at the same time.
I imagine after time is unfrozen, Tom's hat will explode by a missile.
Fun fact: when Ava was trying to contact Jules during the war, the sister is mentioned as someone who might be able to reach him.
I noticed on a rewatch that Errinwright says Jules adores his daughter Clarissa.
*footage not found*
@@JessicaPark1I'd be anything that _in public_ he treats her like a princess
I love Anna. She is such a good woman.
One of my favourite too. Has everything :) I love your reactions to this, I cry too much at them too! lol. Drummer is a great character on the show, written and acted SO well. And yeah, pretty sure Drummer is IN love with Naomi but Naomi "just" loves Drummer... sad times.
Just want to say though. I think with Naomi it's more she doesn't let herself trust people and so doesn't always tell the truth because of her trauma. As much as impulsiveness, it's her holding back and not wanting to get close or hurt or betrayed again.
I'm not going to go into how long Melba's story line goes, but I will say that it's well done and it's a good arc. I think you'll find it satisfying - or as satisfying as a situation like this can be.
And I like that her arc is in the story. Yes, it's a very parochial story mixed in with all these high political machinations, but that's life. It's big and it's small. And each can affect the other.
and at 27:22 the Army Infantryman realized he didn't come for Karen talk and he left.
Naomi said, "my boys are in trouble and I've got to go get them."
And honestly, they were so lost without her on their very first crisis
Oh my my, if you have narcissistic family, have your therapist on speed-dial for season 5…
Edit: your vulnerability in the outro is so amazing. All the hugs to you continuing to heal and I hope any viewers with similar issues feel less alone. ❤
Naomi is the worst character. Capricious, disloyal, self-centered, narcissistic. She breaks faith regularly, but takes no quarter when others “wrong” her. She’s needy, she has trouble putting herself in the shoes of anyone who isn’t a Belter. And frankly has proven herself to be a bad friend to the Roci crew and the OPA. She has now stranded her OPA crew in the spacial anomaly without a chief engineer.
In the Navy abandoning one’s post is a court martial worthy offense-
But on a whim Naomi decided she’d rather play with her old friends, on the Roci (assuming they even want her back). Than do her duty to her crew and hold herself loyal to the crew she enlisted in.
It pisses me off that everyone worships the ground she walks on. Everyone goes on about giving the protomolucule to the belt was a 'necessary and brave' thing to do. Handing over a world destroying tool to a group that has factions that are cool with genocide is incredibly fucking stupid.
hot off the press!
Turns out it's payday and I'm rich, I'm out of here, if that missile doesn't kill the Roci and wake up MegladonwhatckthedoorsandcornerswhodoesnotworkforMelba.
You know the Punisher is on the Rocinante, I do not want to tell old pirates what to do, but is Avasarala a worse threat than Thomas Jane without a hat?
GodDAMN does Drummer give one hell of a speech!!! Sesata is TRUE Beltalowda!!!!
hi Mage
nah the sexual advances didn't do anything. amos is just a sociopath :) people tend to forget that because people love him so much. the only reason amos does good things is not because he knows it's good, it's because he is following naomi and holden's lead. if they ever died and amos was left alone, he would only ever solve problems the only way he knows how, at the end of a gun :p that's why i love amos. after everything he went through as a kid, all the trauma, he is now a sociopath. but he trusts holden and naomi to always do the right thing so as long as he follows their lead, he knows he is one of the good guys doing the right thing.
you will see a good parallel to amos being trust into a position of leadership without the guiding light in season 4 : )
Goliath went through the ring I missed it.
It gets complicated.
She talkign aBOUT Peaches?
It's the five tries... Steve Rogers, a good man. Melba is not a good woman, but Amos will call her Peaches, and make her a good person.
We don't see it portrayed onscreen, but I deem it likely that Melissa wallowed in the Mao family wealth and happily lived a princess life. I suspect Jules Pierre prodded her a lot to take a more serious approach with the expectation she could one day take over from him in the absence of any sons, but she was not at all interested in that life or that pathway or the effort it would take. She may have been entirely deserving of that "party planner" insult. Do children have any obligation to live the life their parent plans for them? Even if the love of the parent is, in fact, unconditional, some gratitude for being in the receiving end seems only fair to me.
Melissa? Is that a portmanteau of Melba and Clarissa? 😄
He had 2 sons. Errinwright said so in 2x6. “He has 2 sons and another daughter he adores”
And no child should “deserve” insults from their parent, just because they want to plan parties.
If you are actually into this whole God stuff, than how can something not be part of gods plan ?
I'd say it was his way of avoiding the Epicurean paradox. 😀
Golden child to scapegoat and black sheep; story of my life.