Always great reacting Meg. I am here for the emotion and the philosophy. Too many reactions to this beautiful show get tied up in the physics, and space theories. It is nice to see a deeper emotional connection. I relate to your reactions very deeply. Anna's speech at the funeral is spot on, and enjoyed your emotional connection to it. Especially with the world out there right now. Empathy is in little supply on this planet nowadays. We need more people like Anna....and to protect the Anna's we do have in this world.
In the books, Anna's speech ended "maybe the stars can be better with us" which I thought was a beautiful balance to Miller's moody misanthropy. You're right about how something like the protomolecule can seem evil even though it has no ill will. "What's normal for the spider is chaos to the fly"
34:05 Yeah, that's how I see it - nature isn't evil because it doesn't _intend_ to cause suffering (it doesn't intend anything). It's both kinda scary _and_ kinda comforting that the universe doesn't love us _or_ hate us, it doesn't care about us at all, it's just doing its thing (and we get to watch and wonder). And yep, as an atheist (well, ultimately I guess an agnostic that lives an atheistic life :), Anna may well be my favourite overtly religious character in all of fiction ("overtly" because there are plenty of great characters that are "religious", it's just not front and centre).
6:03 The Expanse just collects A-listers left and right: Thomas Jane played The Punisher, Simu Liu as Shang-Chi, Shohreh Aghdashloo as God-knows-how-many-roles. 🤩
That scene always floors me :) P.S. Speaking for myself, I love your reactions for your ability to really get the characters, and see it from their perspective... and that was really on display in this one :)
It's a way of saying it without saying it. I reckon everyone knows exactly what "accidental discharge while cleaning a weapon" means. Clarissa lays the blame for her families downfall on Holden. He was the one at the driving all the events that led to Jules-Pierre's downfall. From the logging the distress call on the Cant to being the one who actually captured him on Io and the dozens of events in between that he was in the centre of. Avasarala was just a politician which she likely understood coming from the world she was from.
Specifically, it came about as a way to circumvent rules about a service member’s insurance and pension regulations which stipulate suicide as an exemption. Calling it a service-related accident allowed for the decedent’s family to receive the associated military pension and private insurance. So, it became prevalent to describe gun-related suicide as a weapon cleaning accident. A lie which is transparent but one which is also widely accepted. I believe it started in the military but extended to public service roles like police. I may be wrong about the origin but it isn’t just a euphemism of cordiality. It has a practical purpose as well.
Funny enough, it wasn't the Church that resisted Copernicus. He was actually working with the Church at the time. The issue was that his theory would invalidate the Astrological predictions that were prevalent at the time; Astrology being considered on equal footing with Astronomy. In addition, to accept his premise was to abandon the entirety of Aristotelian Natural Philosophy. Finally, he relied on ideas from antiquity that he knew he couldn't prove, which is why, I believe, he first published under a different name. The Church often gets a bad rap for being "anti-science" when in reality, science has always been an integral part of the Church. Love the reaction and the doggos!
I loved what you said about the perception of evil compared to autoimmunity (fellow sufferer btw) a movie which plays to this very idea, called "Annihilation" touches on this very concept. It's a creepy yet amazing movie with Natalie Portman as I have never seen her. The movie asks a lot more questions than it answers, but I feel in many ways the Protomolecule is highly analogous (in scope of action at least) to what's happening in that movie. I'm so happy you see the complexity of Ashford, not all do. Possibly one of my favorite characters, close behind Drummer. A little bit of context regarding what you said about Drummer and toxic masculinity. While you're not wrong, phrases like that are a bit of a luxury (hang with me here) which many Earthers can conceptualize but clearly not all, perhaps some Martians too. Elevated concepts can only exist with those fortunate to have the breadth of intellectual freedom and indulgence of societal contemplation. This is a privilege Belters don't have, save a select few. Drummer is a product of her environment, fighting for survival every day of her life, not unlike Amos as we are starting to find out. Such a good reaction, I can't wait for the next one!
@@MegMageReacts you must have so much to say about Annihilation! would love to hear your thoughts upon a rewatch, I think it would be so valuable, moreso on rewatch perhaps!
You have such a positive outlook on things. When I saw Miller reappear and talk about Julie, I thought, Wow, the Protomolecule sure knows how to manipulate Holden to do what it wants.
Amos and Melba are my favourite characters in the expanse, I actually started reading the books after finishing the show because I just can't get enough. On another note I really hope Lego starts making sets from the show like the Tachi/Rocinante/Concorda, the Canterbury, Tycho station, Navoo/Behemoth, mcrn Donnager, Unn Nathan Hale, ect it would be so cool lol I'm a big kid
Meg, your reactions to this show are such a gift - you're so smart and intuitive, and it's like watching the show with a friend. I especially love your appreciation of Melba - far too many people dismiss her as a villain when she clearly is in pain and acting out. And I'm with you completely on Anna; as a staunch atheist, I would be so happy to meet someone like Anna in real life. She's a treasure of a character.
Trust the goosebumps my dear friend. I've watched this show three times and still got affected by that! Love this show, mystic, intriguing and just so damn good with the crew.
Great reaction! This is where I really grew to love the dynamic between Ashford and Drummer! Amos not feeling fear since he was five years old... Looking forward to the next one!
Wow, love your reactions to the many wild turns in this episode. Especially melting out of your chair as Ashford drops some truths on Diogo. This show can be so twisty. Our view of Ashford is UP in one scene, but then Drummer calls him out later ("I bet you were all praise for me..") and it's Ashford DOWN again. Final 2 eps this season are bonkers.
Melba and Anna are done the biggest disservice in the S3 adaptation of Abaddon’s Gate IMO. I think the team did a phenomenal job of adapting the entire book into seven episodes, but their portrayals in the book are truly stellar, and the show does make some necessary casualties out of their arcs - which just goes to show how great their actresses are that they’re still both so compelling to watch.
While I do agree that it's not Anna's fault that the kid killed himself, it was her responsibility to listen to and comfort him in his time of need. He was suffering and reaching out but she pushed him aside because she was too distracted by excitement. Most people aren't responsible for the mental well-being of others, but there are some roles that do: therapist, parent, spouse, and religious leader are at the top of that list. Maybe there's nothing she could have done or said that would have stopped him from doing what he did, but I do think she shirked her responsibility. It's not her fault, but she is right to feel that she failed him. Also, Mr Shoot-First-Grenade-Second bares full responsibility for what happened at the end there, sadly he won't be around to feel bad about it. Oh, and I think the reason Clarissa didn't go after Chrisjen is two-fold. First because he was the most public face of the protomolecule affair, he kept blasting his face across the solar system over and over starting with the "Canterbury was destroyed by Mars" message. Avasarala, by contrast, was a somewhat minor member of the UN government (her full title was Under-Secretary-General of the Executive Office of the Secretary-General), she purposefully positioned herself in the background, she wielded a lot of power, but it wasn't in public. The second reason is that Avasarala is surrounded by guards 24/7 while Holden is out there doing Holden things, he's a much easier target.
I do hope you watch Battlestar Galactica (2004) and Farscape. They are some other fantastic space shows that all originally came from the once great Sci-Fi Channel.
Wonderful reaction! I've seen some other reactors to this show (who are good in their own ways) recently ask "why is Anna even here?" It is great to see you get it so much. I thought there was some connection between Arrival and The Expanse in the writing team, but I can't seem to find it. Perhaps I'm mixed up. I do know that some of the writing team worked on Children of Men.
Need to go back and watch what Holden sees a few times to get a better understanding. Pretty important stuff. Holden has an interesting line in book 3 about what happens to the Martian lieutenant.
FWIW, my analysis of what happened at the end of this episode is that proto-MIller overestimated the strength of Holden's mind. Proto-Miller had no existence outside of Holden'r brain, and he had no "hand" to put into that data room terminal circuit to activate it. The data stream that coursed throught Holden's brain as a result was too fast and too complex for Holden to comprehend. It was meant for the much more powerful brain of the race that conceived and built the Ring and the protomolecule. Holden perceived it as a video stream until his over-stressed brain shut down, or, at least, with The Expanse being presented to us in a video format with sound, that limited the choices the director had to have us share Holden's experience and make of it what we will. There has been some debate as to exactly what was shown to Holden and how that sequence is related to the story that is soon going to come to an end. There does not seem to be any debate, though, as to the weaponry of the "station" in the center of the non-normal space our factions entered through The Ring. It has the power to destroy stars in what appeared to be a supernova explosion that would have incinerated all of the planets in that star system. This, of course, in the fashion of The Expanse, raises more questions than it answers. We have had some clues, though. There is no evidence that members of the Ring civilization still exist. Assuming they are long gone, what happened to them? Did they fight a war that included blowing up entire star systems?
Why Holden? Because Holden was the captain of the team ship that raided Jules-Pierre Mao's base on Io and it was Holden himself who captured Mao and handed him over to the UN.
You may remember that Avasarala implied something meta-normal about the way Holden wound up in the middle of the strangest shizzle. Proto-Miller says so, too. It was actually Augustine who said, paraphrased, "God gave us two texts, scripture and creation. If they don't seem to agree, we've gotten one of them wrong." Anna is there to talk to people. I don't know if I believe Proto-Miller's story about him and Julie. I think the Investigator may have invented that. If you slowed down the video of the power beam shooting that final star, the beam went past Saturn, Jupiter, the four inner planets, then destroyed the star, so that was our Solar system. Was that a warning, a threat, or a prediction? A correction about the Christian Church and scientists: Only one scientist, Giordano Bruno, was executed by the Church. His condemnation was for heresy, but not merely because of his scientific theories, but also because he rejected and taught against theological Church teachings such as transubstantiation and the concept of one God rather than a divine pantheon. The Church did persecute Galileo, but that was more because Galileo insulted the Pope directly rather than because of his helocentric theory. And the Church _never_ believed the earth was flat...the Church had already adopted the earlier Greek concept of the spherical earth.
What do you mean "you can't force people into something" ? Do you know how any military works - once you sign up you can't go back, there is no free will, you follow orders, you don't sign for a fixed thing, you sign for following ANY orders(if they are lawful). You can't say: "I didn't sign for this or that" - you will be court-martialed and you'll be lucky to stay alive and prisoned)
“Toxic masculinity” is related to “masculinity” the same way “red truck” is related to “trucks”. Someone who hates red trucks doesn’t hate all trucks. Here endeth the lesson.
@@Adanu191 Not only is that precisely how language works (adjectives which isolate sub-groups within larger groups), it is also what the theory of “toxic masculinity” explains in great detail. What it is not: All masculinity is toxic. What it is: Some socialized behaviours associated with masculinity can become or are toxic. The use of “toxic” is specific as well. Toxicity is not a question of substance. Toxicity is determined by concentration. For instance, we can suffer water intoxication. Or, water can contain toxic chemicals and be described as: Toxic water.
Always great reacting Meg. I am here for the emotion and the philosophy. Too many reactions to this beautiful show get tied up in the physics, and space theories. It is nice to see a deeper emotional connection. I relate to your reactions very deeply. Anna's speech at the funeral is spot on, and enjoyed your emotional connection to it. Especially with the world out there right now. Empathy is in little supply on this planet nowadays. We need more people like Anna....and to protect the Anna's we do have in this world.
This made my day. Thank you :')
In the books, Anna's speech ended "maybe the stars can be better with us" which I thought was a beautiful balance to Miller's moody misanthropy.
You're right about how something like the protomolecule can seem evil even though it has no ill will. "What's normal for the spider is chaos to the fly"
34:05 Yeah, that's how I see it - nature isn't evil because it doesn't _intend_ to cause suffering (it doesn't intend anything). It's both kinda scary _and_ kinda comforting that the universe doesn't love us _or_ hate us, it doesn't care about us at all, it's just doing its thing (and we get to watch and wonder).
And yep, as an atheist (well, ultimately I guess an agnostic that lives an atheistic life :), Anna may well be my favourite overtly religious character in all of fiction ("overtly" because there are plenty of great characters that are "religious", it's just not front and centre).
6:03 The Expanse just collects A-listers left and right: Thomas Jane played The Punisher, Simu Liu as Shang-Chi, Shohreh Aghdashloo as God-knows-how-many-roles. 🤩
I love how a certain musical theme came back for this episode 😢😊
Watching her reaction and hearing that theme from 2x5... yeah, it got me 😢
Klaes Ashford is one hell of a character!
I love Anna namedropping Whitehead. A very underrated thinker.
That scene always floors me :)
P.S. Speaking for myself, I love your reactions for your ability to really get the characters, and see it from their perspective... and that was really on display in this one :)
that little "hmp!" from drummer is just.... candy.
Most people don’t notice it as it’s barely audible. But it’s the biggest fuck you ever. Drummer is the best character.
15:50 Ashford has these moments when you see just a bit of his complexity and it is *subtle* and goooood.
It's a way of saying it without saying it. I reckon everyone knows exactly what "accidental discharge while cleaning a weapon" means.
Clarissa lays the blame for her families downfall on Holden. He was the one at the driving all the events that led to Jules-Pierre's downfall. From the logging the distress call on the Cant to being the one who actually captured him on Io and the dozens of events in between that he was in the centre of. Avasarala was just a politician which she likely understood coming from the world she was from.
Specifically, it came about as a way to circumvent rules about a service member’s insurance and pension regulations which stipulate suicide as an exemption.
Calling it a service-related accident allowed for the decedent’s family to receive the associated military pension and private insurance. So, it became prevalent to describe gun-related suicide as a weapon cleaning accident.
A lie which is transparent but one which is also widely accepted.
I believe it started in the military but extended to public service roles like police. I may be wrong about the origin but it isn’t just a euphemism of cordiality. It has a practical purpose as well.
Funny enough, it wasn't the Church that resisted Copernicus. He was actually working with the Church at the time. The issue was that his theory would invalidate the Astrological predictions that were prevalent at the time; Astrology being considered on equal footing with Astronomy. In addition, to accept his premise was to abandon the entirety of Aristotelian Natural Philosophy. Finally, he relied on ideas from antiquity that he knew he couldn't prove, which is why, I believe, he first published under a different name.
The Church often gets a bad rap for being "anti-science" when in reality, science has always been an integral part of the Church.
Love the reaction and the doggos!
I loved what you said about the perception of evil compared to autoimmunity (fellow sufferer btw) a movie which plays to this very idea, called "Annihilation" touches on this very concept. It's a creepy yet amazing movie with Natalie Portman as I have never seen her. The movie asks a lot more questions than it answers, but I feel in many ways the Protomolecule is highly analogous (in scope of action at least) to what's happening in that movie.
I'm so happy you see the complexity of Ashford, not all do. Possibly one of my favorite characters, close behind Drummer. A little bit of context regarding what you said about Drummer and toxic masculinity. While you're not wrong, phrases like that are a bit of a luxury (hang with me here) which many Earthers can conceptualize but clearly not all, perhaps some Martians too. Elevated concepts can only exist with those fortunate to have the breadth of intellectual freedom and indulgence of societal contemplation. This is a privilege Belters don't have, save a select few. Drummer is a product of her environment, fighting for survival every day of her life, not unlike Amos as we are starting to find out. Such a good reaction, I can't wait for the next one!
Thank you for your insight!! And I LOVED Annihilation, but I think I'm due for a rewatch because so much went over my head the first time lol!
@@MegMageReacts Please rewatch Annihilation with us! PWEEEZ 🧡
@@MegMageReacts
you must have so much to say about Annihilation! would love to hear your thoughts upon a rewatch, I think it would be so valuable, moreso on rewatch perhaps!
You have such a positive outlook on things. When I saw Miller reappear and talk about Julie, I thought, Wow, the Protomolecule sure knows how to manipulate Holden to do what it wants.
Amos and Melba are my favourite characters in the expanse, I actually started reading the books after finishing the show because I just can't get enough. On another note I really hope Lego starts making sets from the show like the Tachi/Rocinante/Concorda, the Canterbury, Tycho station, Navoo/Behemoth, mcrn Donnager, Unn Nathan Hale, ect it would be so cool lol I'm a big kid
There are custom built instructions for Expanse ships on rebrickable. I've got a huge Lego Roci in my room
Meg, your reactions to this show are such a gift - you're so smart and intuitive, and it's like watching the show with a friend. I especially love your appreciation of Melba - far too many people dismiss her as a villain when she clearly is in pain and acting out. And I'm with you completely on Anna; as a staunch atheist, I would be so happy to meet someone like Anna in real life. She's a treasure of a character.
Trust the goosebumps my dear friend. I've watched this show three times and still got affected by that!
Love this show, mystic, intriguing and just so damn good with the crew.
Great reaction!
This is where I really grew to love the dynamic between Ashford and Drummer!
Amos not feeling fear since he was five years old...
Looking forward to the next one!
Really great reaction. Thanks for sharing your philosophical insights.
Did you notice that they played some of the score from the Home episode when Miller was talking about Julie?
So well done!
Wow, love your reactions to the many wild turns in this episode. Especially melting out of your chair as Ashford drops some truths on Diogo. This show can be so twisty. Our view of Ashford is UP in one scene, but then Drummer calls him out later ("I bet you were all praise for me..") and it's Ashford DOWN again. Final 2 eps this season are bonkers.
Melba and Anna are done the biggest disservice in the S3 adaptation of Abaddon’s Gate IMO. I think the team did a phenomenal job of adapting the entire book into seven episodes, but their portrayals in the book are truly stellar, and the show does make some necessary casualties out of their arcs - which just goes to show how great their actresses are that they’re still both so compelling to watch.
The whole vision and what not reminded me of the Prothean vision from Mass Effect in a way.
Yeah that or the scene in "Contact" where she goes through the machine and meets with the alien
While I do agree that it's not Anna's fault that the kid killed himself, it was her responsibility to listen to and comfort him in his time of need. He was suffering and reaching out but she pushed him aside because she was too distracted by excitement. Most people aren't responsible for the mental well-being of others, but there are some roles that do: therapist, parent, spouse, and religious leader are at the top of that list. Maybe there's nothing she could have done or said that would have stopped him from doing what he did, but I do think she shirked her responsibility. It's not her fault, but she is right to feel that she failed him.
Also, Mr Shoot-First-Grenade-Second bares full responsibility for what happened at the end there, sadly he won't be around to feel bad about it.
Oh, and I think the reason Clarissa didn't go after Chrisjen is two-fold. First because he was the most public face of the protomolecule affair, he kept blasting his face across the solar system over and over starting with the "Canterbury was destroyed by Mars" message. Avasarala, by contrast, was a somewhat minor member of the UN government (her full title was Under-Secretary-General of the Executive Office of the Secretary-General), she purposefully positioned herself in the background, she wielded a lot of power, but it wasn't in public. The second reason is that Avasarala is surrounded by guards 24/7 while Holden is out there doing Holden things, he's a much easier target.
My 13 year old daughter says your “space is so aesthetic”
I love Josephus "Joe" Aloisus Miller ..... i was so happy to have him "back" 😁
I do hope you watch Battlestar Galactica (2004) and Farscape. They are some other fantastic space shows that all originally came from the once great Sci-Fi Channel.
Wonderful reaction! I've seen some other reactors to this show (who are good in their own ways) recently ask "why is Anna even here?" It is great to see you get it so much. I thought there was some connection between Arrival and The Expanse in the writing team, but I can't seem to find it. Perhaps I'm mixed up. I do know that some of the writing team worked on Children of Men.
Need to go back and watch what Holden sees a few times to get a better understanding. Pretty important stuff. Holden has an interesting line in book 3 about what happens to the Martian lieutenant.
FWIW, my analysis of what happened at the end of this episode is that proto-MIller overestimated the strength of Holden's mind. Proto-Miller had no existence outside of Holden'r brain, and he had no "hand" to put into that data room terminal circuit to activate it. The data stream that coursed throught Holden's brain as a result was too fast and too complex for Holden to comprehend. It was meant for the much more powerful brain of the race that conceived and built the Ring and the protomolecule. Holden perceived it as a video stream until his over-stressed brain shut down, or, at least, with The Expanse being presented to us in a video format with sound, that limited the choices the director had to have us share Holden's experience and make of it what we will. There has been some debate as to exactly what was shown to Holden and how that sequence is related to the story that is soon going to come to an end. There does not seem to be any debate, though, as to the weaponry of the "station" in the center of the non-normal space our factions entered through The Ring. It has the power to destroy stars in what appeared to be a supernova explosion that would have incinerated all of the planets in that star system. This, of course, in the fashion of The Expanse, raises more questions than it answers. We have had some clues, though. There is no evidence that members of the Ring civilization still exist. Assuming they are long gone, what happened to them? Did they fight a war that included blowing up entire star systems?
Why Holden? Because Holden was the captain of the team ship that raided Jules-Pierre Mao's base on Io and it was Holden himself who captured Mao and handed him over to the UN.
Alternate title for this episode: Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ring
Anna getting emotional whiplash this episode maybe made her contemplate why she's really here on the other side of the ring.
You may remember that Avasarala implied something meta-normal about the way Holden wound up in the middle of the strangest shizzle. Proto-Miller says so, too.
It was actually Augustine who said, paraphrased, "God gave us two texts, scripture and creation. If they don't seem to agree, we've gotten one of them wrong."
Anna is there to talk to people.
I don't know if I believe Proto-Miller's story about him and Julie. I think the Investigator may have invented that.
If you slowed down the video of the power beam shooting that final star, the beam went past Saturn, Jupiter, the four inner planets, then destroyed the star, so that was our Solar system. Was that a warning, a threat, or a prediction?
A correction about the Christian Church and scientists: Only one scientist, Giordano Bruno, was executed by the Church. His condemnation was for heresy, but not merely because of his scientific theories, but also because he rejected and taught against theological Church teachings such as transubstantiation and the concept of one God rather than a divine pantheon. The Church did persecute Galileo, but that was more because Galileo insulted the Pope directly rather than because of his helocentric theory. And the Church _never_ believed the earth was flat...the Church had already adopted the earlier Greek concept of the spherical earth.
What do you mean "you can't force people into something" ? Do you know how any military works - once you sign up you can't go back, there is no free will, you follow orders, you don't sign for a fixed thing, you sign for following ANY orders(if they are lawful). You can't say: "I didn't sign for this or that" - you will be court-martialed and you'll be lucky to stay alive and prisoned)
You break floor, you become floor…
the Expanse is a really great unique and interesting Sci Fi drama series
that i have ever seen thanks and
have a wonderful Christmas.
☃️🛸🎀🎄🎄🎀🛸⛄
Hi Meg hope you are having an great and awesome day ❤
Holden would look so hot with a pirate eye patch... 😅
Maybe with a raven on his shoulder?? OMG cute.
The prothean beacon. 😉
Next episode you find out more.
If you want to make me not like a character, make them religious.
But there is simply no way NOT to love Anna :)
I love how you hate 'toxic masculinity' yet you love Klaes in the TV series, the epitome of a masculine role model.
“Toxic masculinity” is related to “masculinity” the same way “red truck” is related to “trucks”.
Someone who hates red trucks doesn’t hate all trucks.
Here endeth the lesson.
@@AngeloBarovierSD It doesn't work that way. You either subscribe to masculinity as a good thing, or as a bad and toxic thing.
@@Adanu191 Not only is that precisely how language works (adjectives which isolate sub-groups within larger groups), it is also what the theory of “toxic masculinity” explains in great detail.
What it is not: All masculinity is toxic.
What it is: Some socialized behaviours associated with masculinity can become or are toxic.
The use of “toxic” is specific as well. Toxicity is not a question of substance. Toxicity is determined by concentration.
For instance, we can suffer water intoxication. Or, water can contain toxic chemicals and be described as: Toxic water.
@@AngeloBarovierSDwell said!
@@Adanu191Seriously?