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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2020
- This is the first episode in a series where we'll be looking the 64s & Wing side by side for a head-up comparison of the features that matter to you the most. In this episode we'll look at the basic features and some of the similarities and differences you'll want to consider about all of the gear.
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PreSonus 64s - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
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This is the exact video I've been looking for. Thank you for making this series!
Thank you for great lecture on all your digital mixers
Thank you as always!
Has this video been in anyone else’s recommended for the past 4+ days?? Not disappointed tho lol
Great job!
Thanks for the video. Would be good to see their comparison in terms of DAW compatibility and home studio features.
Great intro, excited to see how the WING performs, exciting frontiers!
would love to how well the GUI works on the WING.
keep up the great work. next up you should also review the new A&H avantis for us
Thanks for the Info Bro!
You bet, Thanks for watching!
I used Behringer for over 12 years, they are very solid & great sounding/mixing product.
Golden Ratio they sound like crap. It sounds like there's a blanket over the speakers!
@@officialWWM Only if YOU work on them :-P
I'd love a deep dive into user defined keys/knobs/faders and what (if any) events or triggers are programmable either in automation or using the GPIO
Interested to see how the scene management and parameter scope is... and number of recallable scenes. Also how file management works on both consoles.
Like to see there performance and also how good they are build to go on the road with it.
Both mixer I see more in studio’s then in Live venue’s.
It is very interesting to compare the quality of the audio path with midas m32
I am not an engineer... I am not a producer... I'm not even really a musician since I am just starting and haven't even made a song.... I wouldn't know what to do with either one of those... all I DO know is that looking at them both on the table like that gives me a chubby! Lmao
Most of this info could be found on a spec sheet, so I kinda felt like this was a waste of opportunity, in any case there's still time to address real life situations like sound and control as well as insert plugins and preamp quality. Thank you for the effort and for the video.
Thanks guys. I just purchased the wing and I gotta say... I'm extremely concerned with the lack of explanation about DAW integration (Logic for me) and the fact that there is NO USERS MANUAL or PHONE SUPPORT. These two things kinds scare the H*ll out of me. Behringer will not open their mouths about these two issues. I made my purchase before I fully realized it doesn't have DAW support or any kind of operations manual or phone support. If I don't know how to use any of the millions of features, I have to take an email ticket or sort through 100s of random videos. I ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO WAIT if either of these matter to you. Thanks for doing this series. Can't wait. DON'T BUY THE WING YET!
They updated the Wing to work with DAW's th-cam.com/video/6jePlu_9WKk/w-d-xo.html
I'm swaying towards the WING since I'm already heavily invested in the AES-50 ecosystem (currently using an X32 Compact w/ S16 in my home studio)
VoyageOne1 but it's Behringer though :/
Great intro. I would love to see the remote controle for both. How it compares.
coule2406 Remote control for the Presonus lineup works really good, though it’s quite sensitive for the quality of the network. Remote control for the Wing is non-existent (so far), at least through the native app. There are third party solutions but I cannot comment on that.
Quality OF THE ONBOARD EFFECTS
Very interested in the WING's cue buss. Also can i assign channels to the matrix directly ? In the X32 you can only assign mixbuss' to the matrix. But i want to get lets say three channels all to the matrix and send that to the cue buss. Thanks for all your content.
I think the Wing looks amazing and previously the x32/m32 was a great price for the job. Two decades ago when I was still learning my way around the industry, I purchased many Behringer items since the prices were within my budget. However, does anyone else have issues with Behringer as a company or Uli Behringer as a manager? For instance, there have been multiple lawsuits against Behringer for intellectual property infringement. And, since Behringer's takeover of Midas, I have refused to purchase any more Behringer products.
Matthew Datcher I never liked Behringer products. Now my general opinion hasn’t changed but I really like this desk. 🤷🏻♂️
All-time Same boring Story for Another Behringer hater
very old news< Uli saved Midas which did not have the capital to properly launch Midas Pro series mixers and were going to fall by the way side as the other movers were taking all market share, he got them to deliver the X32 design which created $$ to properly finish the design and launch of the pro desks, he has also levereage the product lines under Music group as an ecosystem for Behringer/Midas mix systems and made all this affordable to the masses, yes their history is checkered. but the future is bright and Uli is taking this leadership approach to every part ofthe Music Tribe line
@@MrlegendOr m.th-cam.com/video/p5RSIWbZ6Vc/w-d-xo.html
Please cover the expanded banks when assigning channels to the fader banks. The left bank supports 24 channels shifted in groups of four. The center bank supports 16 channels shifted in groups of four and the right bank supports 16 channels shifted in groups of four.
May God bless you
Home studio use S32 is cool...especially all the various layers it has ( Bit of a Chameleon ) also DAW integration with Studio One 4.6. Great Video, explains lots. thanks. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ No integration with Wing on the DAW side is not so good...
I agree, DAW integration with Studio One is deep with the SL lineup, though after a while it started to be randomly laggish for me - especially large projects-, could never really figure out why... works also quite well with LogicX. If that is important for someone right now, don’t go with the Wing yet. BUT it is coming... and based on the rest of the features what the console already has, I am sure they will nail it. The only concern I have is the fact that the faders on the Wing are not touch sensitive, let’s see how it works down the road...
I have the 1u 16 channel Presonus mixer that I use as an audio interface and I'm pretty sure the mic pre quality and converter quality are the same as their computer audio interfaces. It would be nice to see someone do a comparison.
How is the usability of EQ, compression, gate, etc?
How can you use DCA's? (I know the X32's already)
Quality of the app for the band is also very important. And also; is there an app (mobile or desktop) for the engineer?
Does it have Fader Automation? Can you do a vid on how that works? THANKS!
I'm interested in seeing how they both work with different DAW's. And do not forget Cakewalk and Reaper. :)
Oh yes. This is whats being avoided it seems... More of us want to know this with clarity and certainty than all other feature requests.
My love priesonus
Cute cat!
top tks!!!
I would love to see how well the emulate console gear. Its what's making me hesitate to make my purchase from Presonus.
I did like to see which one would be best in a small/medium size church scenario where you need to have the best sound quality for intelligibility, build quality/durability, ease of use to train green volunteers, best easy sharing audio signals setup with second live streaming mixer!
Small churches are better off buying an M32 if you want solid audio quality. They're a little more expensive, but it's well worth it if you're spending the money to get quality audio.
You can’t go wrong with either of them...
Why would a small church need 64 channels?
I have the Wing. I upgraded from an old Presonus 16.4.2. I noticed that the Midas mic-pres run a little quieter. Could you take a look at that?
07:54 the cat xD
Monitor guy here. Wouldn’t mind doing a few shows with the wing but the problem I see here is that is it going to be rider friendly? The X32 is not, many times over, it’s pulling teeth getting a Midas M32 confirmed. If this desk can fill that spot once the M32 becomes obsolete, the $5000 might be worth it, but as of now in pro audio guys still wanna see AVID, Yamaha or DiGiCo when they show up.
It's a little snobbish to be honest. The x32 was Behringer's transformation console, the Wing is them getting serious about whilst trying not to carve up their Midas market too much. For the Presonus however, it feels like their last stab before bankruptcy. Let's hope they got it right as the market needs variation to keep it innovating...
@@dougle03 When we get a list from tour managers of approved consoles the X32 is never on there, I'm not trying to be a snob, it's just facts. I don't doubt for a moment that the X32 had a profound effect of bringing a functional digital console to the masses at a great price point. That being said, an M32 may cut it for some gigs today, so I'm curious if this is an attempt to phase that desk out eventually and make the wing the next iterative step.
No cheaper console is "rider friendly". Although the M/X32-Line became a good "sub-standard" for many good reasons. We are not talking about big touring acts. All other will accept a X/M32 as monitor-desk even on medium sized festivals or clubs for many good reasons - rather than other cheap consoles.
The Wing will pop up in many venues in the near future, because there is simply NO competition in it's pricerange (today 2600€).
Bigger "important" acts will bring their own console anyway - so the game is "use what is available or bring your own". Bands don't like "diva-style" soundguys, getting "as many gigs as you can" is
most important these days for 95% of them.
never get a console of presonus anymore... had 2 died at venue's with failing pcb's eventhou power is very clean where i live
I had a Presonus console that also sucked ass. Constant networking issues. They were not helpful about it at all. Deceptive even. Never again.
The most common rider note from incoming bands "NO PRESOUNUS"
Series 3 is a way different beast!
Can you do a tutorial to see how the Studio live send midi on the network!
None of the StudioLive desks have MIDI, (unfortunately).
Pressons Aux out. For In Ear Monitors - Stereo or Mono?
Great video! What’s your thoughts when compared to Allen & Heath’s SQ line?
Not my video, however I'd be happy to chime in. The SQ desks are a little different in scale. 48 mono channels can't touch the 48 mono/stereo on the wing or the additional channels on the Presonus. As far as I/O. I feel that Allen and Heath have a solid set of I/O boxes, but the wing can technically handle more stage boxes natively with the 3 AES 50 ports. Tonally, SQ is 96k which many will argue doesn't make a difference. I've only heard SQ series desks and what I can say is they sound really great. From an ease of use perspective, I'd say as of now, the SQ desks have the advantage, though the wing is catching up on that front as well.
@@officialpoa3171 That's stupid.
Everyone who used SAW moved on from it because it still can't keep up.
You are also comparing a console with a DAW?
You are one weird chap.
As an SQ owner, I have to agree with Harrison, HOWEVER, the SQ is going to sound much better overall than the Behringer and PreSonus preamps.
@@jordanthurt And why is that? Spec-wise, the Midas-Preamps are among the best on the market.
@@harrisongann201 _"Tonally, SQ is 96k which many will argue doesn't make a difference."_
This is not a question of opinion. It's a scientifically proven fact based on simply mathematics that there can't be a difference within the human hearing range if you double the bandwidth.
So - pure marketing Bullshit, as well as a "XCVI FPGA engine"
So interesting vid...but my question is, what about integration with main DAWs like CUBASE, STUDIO ONE, ABLETON, PRO TOOLS, SONAR...Reason. Concretely I use Cubase & Reason. Can you try as much as possible...or the few named???
THANKS in advance my friend..👈🏾🧢!!!
If you are referring to DAW control, I need to know that same exact thing!
I'd like to see the Wing working with PreSonus' Studio One, just curious. I have yet to see one even if it would be for curiosity. I also realize the 64s works tightly with S1. Thanks!
Gabriel-Angelo Garcia As long as you have a small project, yes. Once your channel count grows in S1, DAW control becomes extremely buggy...
do a, out of the box, wire it up, get audio passing for a 4 piece band including monitors and time them out, which is faster to get going.
Might be waiting a while until I can get a band together in one place 🤔
I am especially interested in studio use. Very curious as to a workflow that jumps between raw mixer and daw control surface.
th-cam.com/video/WokXVgGrVmQ/w-d-xo.html&
The wing has no DAW support. maybe in 2021 or 2022 they will. I'd wait.
@@geckovision It does now! th-cam.com/video/6jePlu_9WKk/w-d-xo.html --- Lets see if more is put into this over time. Its still not exactly clear about its limitations and how well it is integrated, but definitely a great start.
@@LinkAudioAustralia I am trying to choose between the Wing, X32 or StudioLive for best Universal DAW control integration. What do you think? I keep seeing Presonus used on its own DAW but what about the others? Samplitude, Cubase, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc.
@@teknomaatix7654 I'm not sure, but I don't think that Presonus will support DAW control for other DAW's than their own: S1. Too bad, though...
Hi, thank you for the video. I'm building a studio at home and in the market for such a console. I would like to know whether the S32 combined with Studio One would be a better overall go or the Wing would deliver as good results???
Thanks for the question, but you've left it a bit open ended. What DAW would you be trying to use with the Wing? The S32 & Studio One combo is pretty well documented and there are lots of StudioLive/StudioOne users online.
@@DcSoundOp I would like to get studio one. But if Behringer is coming out with something equalant to Studio One I wouldn't mind waiting. Just would like to know whether I should wait out or just go for S32 and studio one combo. Thanks for the advice.
New update comparison now needed after Behringer Wing and Studiolive have had 2 years of updates. Comparing effects mixing a piece of music would be a great.
Thanks Peter, I'd have to get hold of a StudioLive console again, but if I can that's a great idea!
@@DcSoundOp Thanks for considering do it all again.
Also, on the Wing, how many faders are included in the MCU & HUI implementation. Can more than 8 be used to control a DAW.
There is no DAW control on the Wing yet...
All controls on Wing can be used for MCU/HUI emulation, just as on the X32... i.e. pretty good with Logic, relatively hopeless with ProTools (Avid's issue, not Mackie's)... just like Mackie's own stuff. X32 control (XCTL) is obviously supported, meaning (in my case) you can use an X32 rack (or full console) as e.g. a stage box with inbuilt monitor mixing/bussing with control from the Wing. So, you would use XCTL to control your Behringer mixing/routing/acquisition environment and 'flip' the surface to HUI/MC to control your DAW (just like X32). MIDI btw is not *just* over the two MIDI DIN plugs, but also via the Ethernets and USB; again like X32. I'm looking to bypass the DAW all together for tracking, and use the Wing/my existing X32 ecosystem for tracking and mixing (with Waves Soundgrid, when eventually available) and *just* use *my DAW* for detailed editing/artistic cleverness... a hybrid approach I couldn't contemplate previously without an SSL, several Otaris, racks of outboard - and shares in Ampex :-)
@@MikeSadlerAU Ummmm, unless something changed, M32 X32 only let the right 8 faders control the DAW.
The wing works as an MCU and 2 extenders. All faders will work, behringer made a video about it
@@G_handle Very true. It is quite strange. I have seen some vids where daw control was being used starting with the first fader and going across. Some were limited to the last 8. People claiming 1 or the other. I really need to know which is officially true. Is it dependent on which DAW one is linking to? Is it a mod or "hack"? Not sure yet. No one is answering and confirming with proof. Not referring to the MIDAS but to the X32. If anyone finds out for sure, share!
I would like to know how the mic preamps and converters compare to the computer audio interfaces each company makes. If a band spends four grand on a console that doesn't leave much if they also want to record in a home studio but if the quality is comparable maybe they don't have to worry about that.
Behringer uses Midas preamps on all their interfaces. It's the same pre you'll find on the M32 and other Midas products.
I've used the presonus 32 series 3 it has nice effects ,different types compression eq for all channels and live recording for 32 channels. The downside that even after the firmware update it has glitched later on several times on startup and freezes. Only after several times of turning on and off it will resume to normal. So it is not reliable on startup. Also if you do a reset you will lose all your customized settings.
Thanks for sharing your experience J z - it's always good to hear real world reports from folks who get to spend more time with these consoles. Did you get any feedback from PreSonus on this issue? Interested to know what the justification was or if they offered to fix. All the best, thanks for the message!
Who is the best?
I'm super excited to see if the Wing lives up to the hype! I'd like to see more about the built-in plugins for EQ and compression, as well as the stock EQ and band solo feature. I'd also like to see more of the general user interface, and how much of a learning curve it is. Are the Wing's new approaches to source-channel relationships really helpful, or just gimmicks? This may be a console I buy, but I want to make sure it's worth it. Great video, thanks!
The WING’s routing capabilities is a God-send. Easy, intuitive and versatile. I’ve never been a fan of the X32 or Behringer gear in general, but this desk is very exciting. The plugins are very usable, to my ears they sound better than the Presonus stuff... The whole desk is fast and responsive. Fun to play with. Some functionality is still to come, but already worth every penny... to me at least.
@@AdamFoldes Thanks for the input, I'm glad to see a positive review!
Behringer is usually a great product that tends to be disposable.
Hey, we have been thinking as church, of getting the wing but our sound volunteer is not well experienced with digital mixer, we are currently using the Yamaha mgp32x.
Is it hard to use it?
Can we still use our snake cabe with the wing?
Thanks.
I would have a difficult time honestly recommending the wing for a non-experienced user. It’s not hard to use, but would be very easy to get lost on for a novice as almost every control has multiple functions & assignability.
You can use traditional snakes with the wing, but the mixer itself only has 8 mic inputs, so you would need an input box (digital snake) most likely regardless.
@@DcSoundOp thank you so much.
I’ve been using the Presonus Studiolive 16 mixer and loving it. Small unit but powerful and it was pretty easy to learn coming from analog
alamakluke +1 the StudioLive are excellent consoles coming from the analog world
Calvary Chapel Eldoret Having used both I would suggest the Wing. Might be a steeper learning curve but once you understand the concept you’re good. And more future-proof than the Presonus. On the other hand you cannot go wrong with the Presonus either. For me though AES50 feels more stable than AVB...
a fair comparison for weight would be the SD16 vs NSB16.8. The S16 not in category of throw down stage boxes. Presonus don't have an offering that matches the S16 (at the time of this videos recording).
When someone ships me a pile of stuff, I try to make a video out of it. With a channel this small, I don't have the luxury of spending thousands of dollars to make the perfect comparisons all the time. Thanks for the feedback though & thanks for watching.
@@DcSoundOp they why mention it as a point? Leave it out or rent it or correctly quote the weight of the comparable product. The SD16 is 3.2 kg (7.1 lbs) which is listed in the manual.
@@jouebienOr correctly quote the weight? You’re the only one talking about the SD16 & the weight of the gear shown in the video is quoted accurately. Not that renting an SD16 was an option three years ago during the lockdowns either, but like I said, I don't have the budget to hire in specific gear for videos. Maybe you could rent it all in now & make the video you want to see & share it with everyone for free?
What for me doesn't make much seance in the presonus line is what is the big difference between the 64s with the 32s, do you mind to clear that up?
Not to sound silly, but the big difference is the 64s has twice the channel count of the 32. I’ll get into more specifics in the video though, there are a few small differences too. Thx!
sorry to ask if I've already asked, the Wing has no touch sensitive faders but the presonus does. Is this difference worth mentioning or have you not found it to be a big deal?
I think I talked about that in one of the later videos in that series, where we looked at DAW control more. It’s absolutely a big difference for some folks, though it’s a feature I’ve often turned off before on consoles for live work, so it doesn’t upset my workflow. It’s a personal preference really & if it’s something that’s important for how you work, that’s a totally legit concern.
The X32 is a great console. To be honest the only thing I wish it had was another 16 controllable inputs so it could be an x48 without all the extra stuff in the Wing. And more AES3 support including over stage box.
yep i have a 16 and love it for my studio setup its worked well eventually i want to upgrade and even then a 32 is plenty considering id use probably 8 mics on drums at the most and bass two guitar channels and a few keys and mics for each station so the band can talk among themselves and what not eventually wanna add the earmix to that so ill have great monitoring via headphones or floor wedges which ever is preferred
And fully customizable fader layers!
I forgot to mention the presonus 32 series 3 only does live recording and cant overdub.
From a Studio standpoint, How do the onboard Plugins sound and compare?
G Obviously personal, but to me the Wing’s effects sound better... and there are much more options included... for free!
Both make compromises to cut cost to save on price. I would still go PreSonus. Love my 32R!
That's awesome the 32R is working well for you. Compromise is the name of the game in pro audio, even with huge budgets, there are always choices to make. Thx for watching!
On the Avid Venue Live Consoles you can install plugins from third part developers if they support the AAX format. Can plugins also be installed on the Behringer Wing console (for example VST plugins)?
FrancisJoa No. Can you get a Venue for 3.5k?
At the end of the day they both have useful and not so useful features. To me, the most important thing is the sound. Audio quality, sound, mojo...what desk sounds better? I'm not into 70's retro fake analogue sound. I don't care about valve pre-amps or fancy pansy stuff. I want the most realistic sound. You could record the same instruments, vocals, check the distortion, frequencies and then a mix-down test. There probably won't be much of an audible difference - but you never know.
It's quite simple: The user makes the difference. The result depends very much with the experience and knowledge of the actual desk and what your settings are. You won't hear a difference from Input -> Output
without any processing on any modern console above 100$.
Question... if I were to get the 64S, in order to plug in more than 32 physical inputs I would need the stage box or rack mixer? Just wanna make sure I'm correct on that.
Yes, for more physical inputs they are expecting you to connect up a stagebox or two. You've got it absolutely right! Thanks for the question Matthew.
@@DcSoundOp sweet. Can I use a 32R or it has to be the stage box?
@@DcSoundOp Hi. hopefully you were able to see my reply. Just in case it didn't go through, I'm wondering if I can use a 32R rack mixer or does it have to be a stage box only?
Thanks
Interested in DAW Mode, as I am looking at either console in the studio. Or how they apply to studio production.
Same here. For some awkward reason this is the question asked the most but every time it seems to get crickets as a reply. Here is something useful. th-cam.com/video/6jePlu_9WKk/w-d-xo.html
I used to be the 'cheapie' sound guy churches would turn to when they got a high estimate from the 'big' sound company. Used a lot of Behringer equipment back in the day. Their bass guitar amps and guitar effects pedals are great... eq's great... crossovers great... power amps (the old 1500 and 2500 anyway) great... speakers great... the compressors - a little too 'pumpy' for my taste... but the mixers, now that's a different story. I had trouble with the bigger ones losing the main outputs a lot. Their 8 subgroup 32 channel (actually a 24 with lots of line inputs) was only 3 for five for me (but then again... I had a 32-8 Mackie go up in smoke literally). The smaller 4 subgroup mixers faired much better at 8 out of ten. The larger rack mount mixer no problems whatsoever. And the little ones with an ACTUAL 1, 2 or 4 mic channels, I never had a problem with. But tried one of their new lightweight class H or XZY or whatever technology power amps a couple years ago. At not even remotely close to the rated output, it was distorting the bass real bad from lack of power. I much prefer the heavier old ones (1500/2500) that actually worked and could really pump out the power. I don't think I would trust their digital unit...................
Can this Presonus StudioLive 64s console be used connected to a DAW using Studio One, Pro Tools, etc. to simultaneously mix multiple tracks at once as the song is playing (real-time) when mastering as normally done in studio? Or is it just basic live mixer with only the added feature of recording the separate tracks (which is still pretty cool)?
From what I understand the older (‘classic’) StudioLive 16.4.2 etc. models (and most other similar consoles) cannot actually be used in combination with a DAW app for the real-time simultaneous multi-track mastering and can only perform the recording stage of the process. Hence in order gain the ability to do real-time multi-track recording (using faders for at least eight individual tracks) while mastering with a DAW app requires the addition of a Presonus FaderPort 8 or 16 (or similar device). Please correct me if I am wrong or confirm if I am right. Thanks.
Thanks for the question. The short answer is yes, these consoles integrate with Studio One as a controller & interface, and I have a few other videos on the channel about that, but if you're really interested you should check out the PreSonus channel where they cover it much more.
To be clear, mixing & mastering are two separate steps / jobs in audio production. You would typically be mixing if you are working with multi-track content, then you take that final mix and master it for the intended method of distribution.
At 8:04 is that CAT5 or CAT6?
Why do people keep on demanding that the wing is DAW controller? :D
It's live-desks through and through with maybe some capability to control DAW if you need to...
Presonus on the other hand is a bit more catered towards being a studio desk. Says in the name and it has transport controls to back that up...
Might be cause a huge portion of the console (where your right hand falls) feels way more like a daw controller than most live consoles do 🤷🏻♂️ But I agree, it’s probably not a great idea for most home studios as just a controller!
The Wing has a big button called DAW/remote control. Must be there for a reason. As of now it is not implemented yet.
@@AdamFoldes It is now! th-cam.com/video/6jePlu_9WKk/w-d-xo.html
@@DcSoundOp Maybe so, I think one of the reasons is because there is a TERRIBLE unfilled gap in this area of the market that no one is truly addressing. Many of us hands on studio engineers/producers are tired of 1 fader and 8 fader DAW controls regardless of popular opinion and we still have a deep need for 24 faders and channel control at our fingertips to control our DAW without having to cough up 20 grand or more! Its crazy. Something with faders, pots, mute, solo, plugin control, meters and scribble strips. And something that doesn't limit us to a proprietary DAW. A C24 type controller covers all this smoothly just about. No one is doing it and MANY are waiting and willing to pay a few grand if this can be attained.
I wont buy the wing until I am able to run effects inside the daw like other audio interfaces. I dont want to have to play out of my daw back into mixer and then maybe back again depending. Once inside daw i want to stay there while being able to use the mixers effects and controls.
I am wondering how useful the DCA’s are for a musical theatre setting. Currently I use a m32r and a x32 to achieve 64 channels plus I also use x32 theatre control to make DCA changes easy. Does the wing or 64S have a good scene/snippet function to be able to change DCA patching and labels efficiently? Definitely my biggest selling feature. Thanks!
I have used the 32 channel version of this Presonus board and now using the Wing. You have scene save/recall function on both consoles, though the Presonus has a significant lag when loading those. The Wing is blazingly fast.
The 64S scene recall is too slow and so when i've mixed on newer presonus consoles I didn't used scenes at all for musical theater. The 64S has 24 DCAs.
@@AdamFoldes I'm currently using Presonus 32 board and thinking about getting the Wing. What are your thoughts on the workflow and customization on the wing vs Presonus? Currently I feel limited on customization of the presonus board.
DJ Pashka Completely different approach and workflow. I was super happy with the SL32 (still have it actually), and the “straightforwardness” of it, the only thing I was struggling with sometimes was the AVB, when I was dealing with a more complex system. The WING at first is a bit confusing, completely different approach. But you’ll figure it out very soon... and then a whole new world opens. The AES50 is a breeze to work with, the whole board is fast and intuitive and sounds really good IMO. There are a few things still missing or are being implemented slowly, study those before jumping. I have no regrets...
Sound quality and feature who is the best ?
New Track Presonus
I've use more Behringer products. They to me are cleaner sounding. Down side, cheap microphone is not your friend with product. Otherwise to me, I love gear.
How do you record more than 8 for mics on the wing?
tbip2001 needs the s32 or sd16 or another console that works with aes50
Add one or more stage boxes. It's not really designed for studio use although it has some studio chops. The intended use case is FOH or monitor world sucking on a digital snake for milk and honey...
The big question is preamps?
jim2010mopar More or less identical.
How much training do you need?
Learning curve?
Jeff Ramos Once you get the taste of it it’s easy. For the nuances you really need to dig deep on the internet as there is no User Manual published yet. 😀
There is a manual for the Presonus Mixer.
what about advantis or the SQ by allen and heath
Is there a specific question you've got? I know a lot of folks who enjoy their SQ consoles quite a bit, really nice little platform. The Avantis is in a whole other league where you're quickly over $10k for a package, so that would be like comparing these consoles to the Yamaha CL or QL series, which isn't really fair.
is the wing better on logic ?
When I had the Wing, the DAW control part of things was not working yet. Sound Design Studio here on YT seems to have his Wing working in Logic now & might be able to offer some insight. He did a quick setup video back in September, but hasn't followed it up yet. th-cam.com/video/NA_UJzqvqBM/w-d-xo.html
I'll hopefully have the Wing back to do a follow up with soon and I'm looking forward to seeing how it has evolved in the few months.
Thanks for the question Rob.
I have two console m32 and series 3 studiolive and test the audio and its better sound presonus.
What about the StudioLive's sound do you like better than the m32? Would be interesting to know what type of work you're using them for and how they are different for what you're doing. Thanks for watching & for the message!!
Can you record a track at a time on the wing in standalone mode like you do a daw?
Am zed, am looking at a board that can give me good sound for live band on stage Anne user friendly interface on navigation
Hey Zed, either of these consoles can give you a good sound for live bands. I wouldn't personally say either one was more user friendly than the other. For that I would look at the Allen & Heath SQ series or Yamaha's TF consoles, they are both very user friendly.
Can you Daisy Chang the 64S to another 64S mixer So I don't have to bank I would like to know because I'm just kidding started
You can connect the two consoles using the AVB audio network for sharing inputs and output routing, that's a big feature on this series of consoles. Thanks for watching!
I can see Behringer Xenyx 1622 USB on the ground
Mr. Karter Understand The Wing is the only piece of Behringer gear in the shop at the moment 😉
How do you not get backache using those? I guess they're for under 40's....
The 64! Plus it’s own native DAW over empty promises..
Is the 64s the same size as the 32s ?
isaiah bernal Yes.
For the extra $500, I'll go for the one with more analog inputs.
Sorry, but without inserts...terrible. I use external effects and compressor. Outboard workflow. I prefer the Presonus 32.4.2 AI that is much more complete for studio. Dont´need moving faders.
You need an analogue or hybrid console my friend. You can achieve inserts on these desks, you just have to use up some channels for them that's all.
No, I don't need an analog or hybrid console. As I mentioned, StudioLive 32.4.2 AI which is digital, has inserts per channel and is much more complete.@@dougle03
You should approach heads up compare without a bias. Your obviously very excited about PreSonus but its not fair to Behringer.
It is interesting how I’ve never once been told I was being unfair by a manufacturer I have been critical of. They tend to appreciate criticism when it’s valid & reach out to talk about the issues, offer help and occasionally beta firmware to fix issues. I’ll relay your concerns and well wishes to Behringer though.
Neither I would go with the SQ6 or 7
Until the Presonus board will work nicely with Logic X and other Daws, I can’t see how they can justify the cost. Basically unless you’re a studio one user you’re fucked
A Behringer tem mais tecnologia em firmware porém o hardware dela é duvidoso, componentes que apresentam muitas falhas por isso prefiro Presonus
For studio it seems like the Presonus wins. They have tight integration with DAW unlike the wing. After watching this video i am now more leaning towards the presonus for better DAW workflow. If behringer had this feature i would purchase it today. However, i am stuck with getting the presonus console which i don't like due to the fixed touchscreen that i cannot tilt. Also not liking the presonus look nearly as much as the wing. But tight daw integration wins over all that. Presonus it is for me.
DAW integration for the Wing has begun! th-cam.com/video/6jePlu_9WKk/w-d-xo.html --- Did you purchase your Presonus already? If so what DAWs have you controlled with it and what can you share about how well it works, where it lacks, etc? Automation? Plugin parameter controlling? ETC
Is there anything on the "Wing" that makes up for the crappy audio specs, that don't match broadcast standards?
The SQ-5 includes this without costing any more. I wouldn't mind if it was lighter weight like QSC mixers, but it is more competent than anything I've seen in the price range.
I'm not even going to ask about the Presonus, because I don't like their blurring of the 'thin' line between the mixer hardware and the software in your computer, making trouble shooting more annoying than any other combo I've had. (This is mainly a problem if you use Studio One and a Presonus mixer.) I find Studio One more reliable and predictable with mixers from other brands, because there is usually no question where the issue is, when one crops up.
Can you specify what you consider the crappy audio specs that don't match broadcast standards to be? Also, which broadcast standards? Beyond that, if you really like the SQ-5, you should absolutely buy one, they are really good consoles that a lot of good engineers I know own personally.
@@DcSoundOp I own an SQ-5 for a bit over a year. Its basically a smaller DLive, pared down with "just" 48 channels, but the same audio engine. It won the NAMM show's best live mixer award in 2019. It is operated in a very similar fashion to QSC Touchmix, but with the best Motorfaders I've ever used. silent, smooth and fast.
Broadcast standard is what TV stations will accept if you (wish to) do work for them. That is 24/96. They want their stuff in that format, because you can edit /remaster etc more times without the degradation (foldback) dipping into the audible range of the signal.
I'd just like a small lightweight mixer I can bring to exotic locations to record, because I found musicians play special, when their environment is special. If you play on a 2000 meter mountain peak, you'll play differently than in some room.
And the Wing - I never got why they made it into such a huge slab, with loads of empty space between faders. What was it, 80 cm wide? I forgot the exact measurements. And for all that hubbub, it only did 24/48. Why I never bothered to buy a Presonus console, they are the same.
I do like the analog SoundCraft Signature 12 MT though! It has as many USB channnels as it has inputs and faders. Amazing they matched that up!
I think it was on purpose! These guys thought about it ;D And its so cheap. I think I paid 250 bucks and I'm keeping it for the gaming system that also handles the party music output. My 6 Year old can operate it ^^
In the end, I think I will buy a QSC Touchmix, even though the lack of USB interface irks me. But its just too good in that size and with signal processing very nice and clean.
What country are you in that’s all 24/96 to broadcast? I don’t know of any networks here accepting 24 bit 96k audio delivery, just 24/48. I’ll have to ask my friends who mix live sports if their broadcast trucks are 96k acquisition yet here, the ones I’ve mixed, as well as the TV news studios I’ve worked in have all been 48k.
@@DcSoundOp I can't say about sports... audio fidelity may reasonably not be as high on their list as it is when they produce music or TV series episodes and such. You should be able to google the standard. Or go to the Namm show and ask some exhibitors. They know what they need to build in order to sell equipment to that market...
Its not used for distribution - it is for their masters, which they archive, in case they want to sell a remastered version 20 Years down the line. Nobody can hear the high frequencies recorded at 48KHz, but with repeated editing and resampling, the distortion from that range can eventually get to the audible range. 96KHz simply gives them more room before that happens.
And of course, people on Presonus consoles can upsample their work before turning it in, but that is kinda cheating and won't actually give the high ceiling before audible degradation occurs, that the studios would like.
And for people who can't hear the warble in MP3 files, this is all academic.
On the QSC Touchmix, I was immediately alert, when they talked about MP3 playback in a demo. Its like come on - we have multi-terabyte drives now, nobody needs to degrade their sound with lossy compression for local consumption.
The NAMM show is for music manufacturers, maybe you're thinking of NAB? (which is in October this year, not April like usual). Anyway, if you actually do look up the delivery standards for any major network or studio in the US, they all still spec 24/48 from production as of 2020. There are studios and projects that shoot in all sorts of higher specs for different reasons, but using that option to disqualify gear that only runs at 48k as 'not meeting broadcast standards' is just not correct.
these desks are MASSIVE, in this day and age do they need to be?
The photos make them look pretty huge, but in reality the PreSonus is much the same size as a typical console (think LS9-32) - the wing is a bit awkward, feels like someone glued an M7 surface to an LS9-16 chassis. Going to be a pretty beefy console cased up with wheels & a doghouse.
so you want 8 faders and tiiiiny screen for controlling 48 channels all with dynamic and eq processing... ok... if you want to torture yourself.
Have you ever done a large scale live show?
@@Mtaalas I doubt these desks will be used for a large scale show. I get on just fine with my sq5 for my needs. Anything large scale would be a dlive, pro x or similar
No they don't, the surface you see is really just a very fancy keyboard and mouse - The computer inside is doing all the work. Behringer brough out the Core and Rack versions of their X32 line that was essentially the computting and audio interface (Not the core before the internet know=alls get started) leaving you with the laptop/ipad interface to operate the console. The surfaces could be any configuration, so the designers have to decide what direct buttons to give you and how many faders..
Considering they are 64 channel, they are very compact.
Personally, I would have preferred double width with all the faders.
Just the fact that the WING is double boxed while the StudioLive isn't already tells you loads about the product.
BrunoDSL Serious question: are you saying you like the double retail box or that you think the full color retail toy box is excessive & you like the PreSonus approach of plain boxes?
@@DcSoundOp Quite the opposite in fact. Considering the price of both products, having it double boxed gives another layer of protection against damages that could occur during shipping. Also, if you need to send the product back, you can remove the external box and ship the other one.
@@DcSoundOp Oops, I think you let your bias out to play there a little.... lol
Starts at 4:40
👈👍😘🙏
That’s not entirely true. Behringer mixers work perfectly on logic, cubase, reason , PT Bitwig and Studio One and they work at up 85% in live , mixbus , Fl studio etc... but the same cannot be said for the presonus controllers. I also use my X32 and X Touch with Davinci Resolve. So I emailed them to fully integrate a Mackie protocol or HUI. And they got the light 💡and made their own mixer controller 😂😁. But I have yet to tried it so I don’t think it will work as good as the behringer one. Because no one in his right mind will buy a mixer for every application? So compatibility is the key and on that Behringer win.
You do realize that when this video was published, DAW control on the Wing had not been released as a feature in the Firmware yet? So it literally could not do any of the things you are saying. Context is important & both platforms have had multiple updates in the year since this video was released.
@@DcSoundOp I will therefore base my opinion on the next previous item the X32 because we all know that Behringer daw integration as been the same across these range of product so how could it be any worse ? I had the chance to play around with the 16 channel of that presonus console and there’s nothing to scream about. Take for example the lack extra customise buttons, or the poor or non existent compatibility with other Daw, I use Cubase, PT, and live has main production and mixing Daws. But I also own Presonus Studio one 5. And other Daws so if presonus want to have more customers they should stop using this 02r 03 kind of layout and add more Daws support
Reading the datasheet and telling how it feels to get it from A to B isn't that in detail review I was hoping to watch. :/
You could always leave a comment letting me know what it is you are hoping to see covered... in the upcoming detailed videos.
@@DcSoundOp Detail videos? Niiice. I'm realy interested in the EQ handling and routing. Thanks 👍
Behringer? What's that 😂
Gotta love that high end sizzle..