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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- Generators burn roughly a gallon of gasoline per hour. That is a LOT of trips to the gas station. Also, unused gas, sitting in the generator for over a year, can gum up and stop it from working at all. Convert to natural gas for $10 and solve both these problems.
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As for safety concerns if the unit stalls while the natural gas valve is open, natural gas is a safer fuel than liquid gasoline. Natural gas is lighter than air and dissipates in case of an accident, unlike spilled liquid gasoline.
While natural gas is generally cheaper ~$1.50 less per gasoline gallon equivalent.
However there will be ~25% reduction in electricity produced, because natural gas has less energy density than pump gasoline has. Especially setup like this WITHOUT a regulator to adjust the amount of gas depending on engine load, this setup would be rich at idle without a load, then struggle for fuel when peak loads kick on. Why the Generac standby generators are so large, their typical natural gas supply can't output the same amount of power as an equivalently sized gasoline unit.
The reduction in output power is because the natural gas displaces some of the air entering the engine. Not because of its slightly lower energy density.
YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOMEONE KILLED!! Try reading the National Fire Protection Association Regulations on Natural Gas Powered Engines. You CANNOT Pipe your ANYTHING with Natural Gas Without a Regulator Sized for the Load AND A AUTOMATIC SHUTOFF VALVE TIED to the SAFETY CIRCUIT!! AND A HOSE BARB IS NOT A CONNECION FOR GASEOUS USE RECONIZED BY THE NFPA!!!
Could you use propane gas from a tank as opposed to piped natural gas? Perhaps it is even more efficient too?
@@FeetusMcCarland ummmm yes because it has lightly lower energy density.. we converted from Propane to NG cutting steal from 1" to 8" and there is a huge difference..
you can put a 12V shut off solenoid when the generator dies it can cut the flow of gas.. but i would use a legit regulator not what this guy did lol
Thank you Lou for the the great video, very tight editing, not a wasted second. I, for one, appreciate that very much!
Hear hear!!
Nice one! I can see me doing this in the very near future. Way to stay abreast of current events Lou!
Wow super simple and super clear explanation with video demonstration.
Wow. I thought there would be more to it. Awesome!
Wow how kool thanks for the tip gonna try this today .
Interesting. I didn't expect it to be so simple.
Yep, its just a gas/air mixture. Carburetors are more complex because they also have to convert liquid gas into vapor.
It is and it is not. Doing it this way is not the normal way, gad flow can not respond to engine load. If it was perfect and great like this, then why do all propane and NG engines regulate gas flows into the engine.
@@scottdowney4318 Getting it to run at a single load is one thing, but getting it to run at no load to high load is what takes extra regulators.
It’s not that simple! You would need to “babysit” this not only to make it respond to changing loads but if it shuts down, the gas does not causing a severe explosion hazard!
What if the generator from any reason shuts off, then the natural gas will continue to flow through the generator air filter to the street, isn't it dangerous without a regulator to stop the leaking NG?
I think that you can add electro valve with relay on output
@@ExcaliburPaladin No. You STILL have to use a REGULATOR to match the gas flow to the electrical load on the generator.
#1. Everything is going to shut off. If you don't notice that, you probably shouldn't be messing with anything.
#2. Outside, in open air, the natural gas would just dissipate.
There is very little risk here.
Thanks Lou - Im looking at a Honda 7000 inverter gen so their speed changes and is slower. Couldnt I just add a regulator to get the correct flow/stop? if so what kind?
Search Natural Gas conversion kit on Amazon. They have a regular that will do what you want.
Do you have to use the choke at all to start up the generator when it's cold? Any advice when cranking it without the electric start? Thanks
I leave the choke off all the time, even when starting. Honestly it’s pretty hard to start generators on natural gas without an electric start. In that case, I’ve seen people started on gasoline, and then slowly turn off the gas and turn on the natural gas.
@@HowToLou why is NG so hard to start? mine is a pull start only 1919 troy built 5550.
Pretty brilliant! No concerns of the line running to the air filter? Is there enough of a vacuum to to draw all of the NG into the carb to prevent any from gas flowing in the opposite direction and out the filter into the air ? Should the fuel line input on the carb better for the supply of the NG ?
There is zero NG smell when running. It is ALL getting vacuumed in. By the way NG is 40 times lighter than air, so if any escapes, its long gone. There is a tiny jet on the gasoline fuel line that would not allow enough NG into the engine.
@@HowToLou Thank you!
Do you close the gas filler cap on generator, when running the natural gas?
I do, but it does not matter
I have a natural gas grill on the deck. It has a 3/8th inch copper pipe running from a regulator mounted on the house. I have a champion 5500/6875 with the gas tank hose like yours. Do you think the 3/8th copper pipe to the 1/4inch barb, to the rubber hose is good enough to get the job done? I plan to start it with gas or starter fluid spray and then convert to natural gas since I do not have an electric start genny. thanks for posting this stuff. I am enjoying this project.
Absolutely! Get it running and slowly turn off the gas and turn on the NG simultaneously.
Hi Lou, how many hours can you run the generator on a 9 kg gas cylinder?
Its about the same time as 9kg of gasoline. 3-5 hours
That was fantastic. Thank you for sharing.
This is awesome. I have a dual fuel Gas/propane generator with a similar vent hose. Would I leave it on the gas setting on the generator? since my gen can run on propane, can I use the propane hose to run the NG if i make an adapter?
Yes, it will run on NG. Make sure to use a multi-turn valve, like I did, to give you better control over gas flow.
❤ This .. I wish you much success...concise complete vid. Im subscribimg
My generator doesn’t have an Evap hose. Can I just tee into the gasoline feed hose and use that or would the carb’s jets be too small to offer enough Ng to run?
If not could I just drill a hole into the front of the airbox before the filter and fit my 1/2” hose to it and run it that way?
Drill into the airbox. That gives the NG more time to mix with air. Use a multi-turn valve, like I did, to give you finer adjustments. Electric start is a must, because it gives you time to get gas adjusted properly.
My question is how does the gas flow through your hose adjust itself to how much load the generator is pulling. It's one thing to make the generator run on NG or LP with no load or a small load, but when the load is changing don't you need some sort of regulation other than a manual valve? The amount of fuel needed at no load isn't the same at a high load.
These engines have governors that control the the throttle valve to maintain the speed. That helps. Also, in an emergency generator situation, your power usage will likely be more steady, as you will be using only basic functions.
@@HowToLou will this method work with my Craftsman 5600 pull cord generator?
Yes, there is supposed to be a metering venturi that would pull differing amounts of fuel depending on load and vacuum changes.
The way this video shows setting this up is entirely wring and dangerous. At the very least there should be a demand regulator in the system so gas isnt dumping to atmosphere if the engine sg=huts down.
Lou, how can I do this to my Duromax xp13000hx who’s is a dual fuel(propane and gas)?
Exact same procedure. Run NG line into air box. Hold starter button and slowly crank open NG valve until it starts.
Man , I love this. Does the generator type matter? Like a 30a vs 50a
Type does not matter. However, this is much easier to do with an electric starter, so you can spin the engine until you get the gas valve adjusted properly
Thank you for your video. Too bad we have no NG in our county. Do you know a way to hook up Propane) LPG?? There are cheap.kits from China, but I am just asking. Thanks again.
Use the the exact same method for propane. The valve will just be open less because propane has more power than NG. Be very careful with propane leaks. NG floats away in the air. NG sits on the ground waiting for a spark
@@HowToLou propane sits on the ground
I have the predator 9000 and I just tried this. I could not get my generator to start? Turned the valve on. I can clearly smell natural gas and then hit the switch and it just spins over. Doesn’t fire off. Any tips? My air box does have an open vent on the bottom right hand corner. You think that is the issue?
Do it exactly the same way I did. Hold the starter button and then slowly turn on the gas until it starts
@@HowToLou So let me tell you my exact setup. I have a gas spicket on the back side of my fireplace. It has a 1/2” quarter turn valve that I put a 1/2” to 3/4” fitting on, that is connected to a 3/4” gas line. The other end of that hose goes into a 3/4” hand valve, connected to that is a 3/4” to 1/2” reducer, that reducer has a 1/2” fitting with the 1/4” barb fitting on it. That is where I connected the hose that is typically connected to my gas tank on the generator. Everything else is connected as normal on the generator. I did put an NGK spark plug in the generator and check spark. Also I put in a 1/2 gallon of gasoline just to verify that it did in fact run because this generator was brand new and never run. It ran for about 45 minutes until it was out of gas. Going to try again today.
It all sounds good with maybe the exception of the quarter turn valve. I specifically used the multi-turn valve so i could more accurately regulate the gas flow. I suggest you add a multi-turn valve after your quarter turn and leave the quarter turn full open. Press and hold the starter button and SLOWLY open the multi-turn valve until the engine starts. The gas air mixture is extremely important. Too rich or lean and it won’t run.
@@daroncraig8602 start with gasoline and switched to NG
Great Video! Just set up my system similar to yours, I used a 3/4" Natural Gas supply line with a 3/4" shut off valve inside the house, with and reducer down to a 1/4 barb fitting for the 1/4 fuel line to the inlet of the carburetor. However my 9HP Briggs & Stratton runs rough and I cannot achieve the 122 volts and 61.5 Hz I get running in on Gasoline! My question is can it be that the 1/4" fuel hose is too small for my setup? should I go 3/8" hose instead? I also installed a 1/4" shut off valve then a needle vale before the hose goes into the carburetor. And advice is appreciated!
I don’t think the quarter inch line is too small. My generator is 13 hp, and runs fine. I suspect you are not getting enough of an air fuel mixture, because you are running the gas directly into the carburetor, instead of into the airbox the way I did.
@@HowToLou ! Today I updated the Natural Gas supply hose from 1/4" to 3/8" I removed the air filter cover and air filter, snaked the clear 3/8" line to thr right side of the choke flap until it bottomed at the throttle valve, I first started it with about 3 oz of gasoline just enought to fill the bowl then as tje unit was about stall I gently opened the shut off valve near the unit while opeing the needle valve about 1 1/2 turns then once it was FULLY running on NG I fine tuned and it was purring like a kitten! I adjusted the AVR to 122 volt with no load and adjusted the Hz to 61.5 also with no load. Connected the unit to my service panel [which I already have it configured] shut the Main and had the unit supply my home via the unit! Checked everything from the basement to the 2nd floor of all the necessary items that I would use in case of an emergency. Thanks Brother for replying quickly and helping me out! 👍🏻
Sorry, I re-read your original question and I see you had a LONG run of 1/4” tubing. Yes, I can see where that would restrict flow and starve your engine. Changing to 3/8” solved your problem. Moving it deeper into the carb likely had no effect. You just need the correct ratio of NG to Air, wherever it is. I would suggest re-installing the filter, so you are assured clean air.
@@HowToLou Thank You! I will re-install the air filter cover and drill a hole and install a 3/8" barb fitting so I can attach the NG supply hose! 👊🏼
I wonder if you hooked non inverter generator to your home panel, does it work well with sensitive electronics like computers, tvs etc?
Most likely yes. They main thing that can change with a standard generator is the frequency of the AC voltage. (Typically 60Hz). Modern electronics convert this to DC voltage, so the frequency is a non-issue. Older Tube TVs could produce a weird picture. Old electric hand clocks will run too fast or too slow. Computers, cell phone chargers and all modern TVs are fine.
as long as its low THD (Total harmonic distortion) it should be fine
I have a dual fuel (liquid gas and propane) generator. Can I run the hose to the propane inlet instead of to the liquid gas air intake like you did?
Yes, but it won’t run very well. Propane inlets are more restricted because propane has more BTU than NG
You could add a normally closed solenoid valve powered by the generator
That does nothing to meter the gas flow based on the electrical load on the generator. This is idiotic. At best it's an opportunity for Darwin to clean up the human gene pool.
Great idea! A 12 volt solenoid valve held open by the battery to start, then you switch to a 12vdc adapter powered by genny to run. I like it!!
Besides the obvious (cost), what's the difference between this vs the conversion kits sold? I've noticed these kits come with various other parts.
The kit will automatically shut off the gas flow if the engine stops. Its rare an engine would randomly stop, and if it did, you would know instantly. Much lighter than air, Natural gas would float harmlessly away for the few minutes it took you to get to the generator.
@@HowToLou what if engine backfires? through the air box, umm, would that be bad to have flames going into the house line? Take that flames!
@@HowToLouI'm new to all this so doing alot of research. From what I've gathered so far, it seems that the engine would stop by itself after running low on oil after couple of days' operation. I can see how one may not know the engine has stopped running if this had occurred while one is sleeping. So having a regulator that automatically shuts off the gas line would seem pretty important. I am curious about whether or not tri fuel generators come equipped with a regulator already.
Are you using 1/2 line at the generator ?
1/2 inch from the house outside. 1/4 inch for the last 2 feet
Can you still do this even if there was petrol in the generator at some point in time?
Absolutely!
@@HowToLou wonderful!
question: if there was a large scale power outtage, would the natural gas being supplied to you house still be supplied? is it pumped by natural pressure or is it pumped by some kind of electric source? does anyone know the answer to this?
In the multiple power outages we have had here in Florida due to hurricanes, I have never had an interruption in natural gas to my home.
When we lose power, the NG is fine.
I could be wrong but most generators have to run at a steady 3600 rpm to provide a steady 60 hertz so you don’t damage electronics or electric motors. I would be skeptical running on natural gas without a regulator to get a steady 3600 rpm when loads change.
do you need to replace the carburetor to take natural gas or it came to the existing carb. Thank you.
Existing
NG burns colder and will leave black residue behind, runing on gasoline once in a while will keep it clean.
Great tip! Thank you.
how long would you get from a 20lb propane tank?
10-15 hours
@@HowToLou How many times must you answer the same questions?
So all of the kits you see being sold with a bunch of hardware are unnecessary?
A carburetor atomizes liquid gas into vapor and then provides the correct fuel/air mixture to burn. Natural gas is already a vapor, so you don’t need that. The valve allows you to set the fuel/air ratio. That is truly all you need. The kits do shut off the gas flow automatically, when you turn off the engine. I simply turn off the engine by turning off the gas.
@@HowToLou how cool is this. What size is your yellow flex gas line in the vid? I have access to a 1/2 line is 1/2 large enough for the gen?
1/2 inch line is perfect.
No, the kits that cost more are NOT unnecessary. They have a "zero governor" regulator. As load increases the amount of LP/NG is increased. As load decreases the amount of LP/NG is decreased. Also if the engine dies the LP/NG is shut off automatically. Running an engine like the one in the video will work but it won't adjust to varying loads and is dangerous and needs to me monitored. I converted 2ea 5k generators myself using the safety regulator. The missing link is the Venturi which creates the vacuum needed to operate the regulator. There are several ways to accomplish this but the easiest is to use just the regulator and another identical carb like the one that's on your generator already. Modify one of the carbs for LP or natural gas and keep the other for pump gas.
@@JimNicholsMotorManiaGarage Please share a few manufacturers of these regulators. Thanks
this was very helpful cus we have natrel gas on our property so we get free gas
Looking to sell your property ?
@@robertlipperd7352 no its home
Are you using the regulator off of the mainline? Don't you need a regulator or is the valve your regulator?
Valve regulates
What about all those universal convert kits that sell for the same thing you just did with a very simple installation? I have an smaller generator will it work just as well? Great video!
Yes it works for any generator, but much easier with electric start type
@@HowToLou thank you!
@@HowToLou Im finally going to do this but i have one more question. The ruber line that my power generator has goes from the gas thank to the carburator but re watching your video yours goes from gas thank to the air filter and im like what? should I connect the natural gas to the carburator or bypass it and just do that you said in you video? I have an BSP3200 Thanks for the help!
The rubber hose from the bottom of the tank is for liquid gasoline and goes directly to carb. IF you have a rubber hose from the top of the tank, that is for fumes and goes to air intake. You may not have that second hose. Its an environmental upgrade. In any case, you need to feed your natural gas into the air filter where it has a chance to mix with more air before going into carb. So do what I did in video. If you have any other questions, please start a new comment on the video. It’s actually pretty hard to dig down and find these.
@@HowToLou ok Thank you
before i try this, tell me if Natural gas will flow freely if the engine stalls. It looks as if it would leak into and out of the air cleaner box?
If the engine stalls, natural gas will leak out of the air box and will quickly and harmlessly float away, because it is much lighter than air. Don’t run this setup indoors.
@@HowToLou thanks for responding but I am still uncertain about that part of shutting off the source of natural gas since it is my understanding it is merely being sucked into the carburetor Venturi instead of through the carburetor which of course provides the mechanism to shut off the gas supply line
The Venturi sucks up liquid gasoline with the intake vaccuum. So, when the engine stops, the intake vac stops and so does the venturi gas flow.
For NG, the venturi is not used at all. The NG and air mix in the air box and then flow through the carb, into the engine. The carb is not really functional at all. Its just a pipe, in this setup. To kill the engine, just shut off the NG. If the engine dies unexpectedly, the NG will continue to flow and float away until you turn it off.
That's impressive! Btw, don't you need to regulate pressure when electric load changes? I'm surprised it self feeds the correct amount of gas
It seems to do fine with changing load. I am only pulling 30 Amps out of a 60 Amp Genny, so it may not really feel much load.
yes you do, just like a gasoline engine has a throttle, a NGas generator has that big round regulator with a rubber diaphragm. it responds to generator engine suction in the venturi of the carb when hooked up properly. I think if this fellow loaded down his gen with a heavy load it will stall out unless he is right there to open his manual valve.
@@HowToLouwhat is the gas consumption per hour on full load or in 24hrs?
@@scottdowney4318natural gas"or least my area" is low pressure if open valve fully AND a generator runs at its highest setting normally they have their high idleset at the factory it should be fine,yes if a load comes online the gen may bog slightly but it should stay running.....correct?
So I followed this to the letter but still can't get it to start. Exact same generator. Help Lou!
Order is very important. With gas off, push and hold starter button. Then slowly open gas valve until it starts. It should be a multi turn valve, like mine, to give you more granular flow control. If you still can’t get it, send me an email at HowToLou@gmail.com with a video clip of your attempt, and I will assist.
I don't understand the $10 cost to convert claim. I just bought the 25foot 1/2" Pro-Flex kit at Lowe's and it cost $88.18. Did you get yours free?
Getting the gas to the generator was not part of the conversion. I just showed that in case anyone needed it.
@@HowToLou Thanks Lou, and thanks for the the great video too, very tight editing, not a wasted second. I, for one, appreciate that very much!
I was just about to try the same mod on my brand new genny (never used so far) but I am concerned about the fact that gas runs the engine very dry, especially in the valve stems. I must come up with an answer to that or I will face some parts of the engine running hotter than they should. In the old days, we used to have lead in the fuel which would deposit on the valve seats and guides creating a protective coating, with the advent of unleaded they have come up with some substitute additives but with gas, we would non benefit from either of those.
I have heard that if you run a little gasoline through them occasionally, it keeps them clean. I only run mine rarely for emergencies.
@@HowToLou correct, that is what we used to do in the old days with cars running on liquid gas by occasionally alternating with liquid fuel. Thanks for the video ☺️
I have just one question. What happens if the generator stalls brakes or shuts down for any reason? Think about that lol
I have a Champion dual fuel generator I’ve never used and purchased a NG conversion kit with plans to connect to a 3/8” quick connect on the deck used for the grill. I have a 25’ extension hose but haven’t installed the NG kit. I like your solution for simplicity. Where’s the best place to get the barbed fitting? I’m thinking I can just attach that to the gas hose and skip installing the Nash Fuel NG kit. I’ve considered just attaching the NG hose to the propane inlet on the generator but have read that it probably won’t run due to the difference in the propane regulator vs. the NG regulator, but haven’t tried it.
Is it possible that gas mixed with air ignites inside the air filter and causes it to blow up? I mean it is alot of volume. Also this seems like a super easy conversion. Thanks for the vid.
I suppose if you somehow got a spark inside your air filter, it could explode the small volume that is in it, at the given time. This would likely blow the cover and/or hose off the filter and you would no longer have a stoichiometric mixture, so the burn would stop.
@@HowToLou i see, thank you.
@@HowToLou Gas will only explodes/burns with the right air mixture. To much air, nothing, to little air, also nothing.
Yes. it would only take one backfire since in this unsafe arrangement the airbox is force-fed full of gas.
Without the pulse sensing regulator, if the generator stalls or stops for any reason gas will continue to flow.
That is true, but with natural gas 2x lighter than air, it will quickly and harmlessly float away outdoors
@@HowToLou …and everyone will know right away because the lights went out.
How long will a 15lb canister last
Not long. 15 pounds of propane is 3.5 gallons which has the same energy as 2.5 gallons of gas that will run for about 2.5 hours.
Does this work with biogas?
I don’t have any to try, but I suspect it would. Bio and Natural gas are both methane.
Can you hook up to propane? Like a big propane tank? Have exact HF generator.
Yes, that will work the same way. That big tank is 60psi. Make sure you take propane AFTER the regulator, when its only a few psi. Hold electric start and slowly turn on gas until it starts.
I have an idea that would help start the pull rope engine. Use a regular quarter turn valve to turn off and on and use the round valve you have to regulate the amount of gas flow. Once the second one is set for the correct flow leave it at that setting and used the quarter turn to turn off and on.
Good idea!
@@kurtracer22 No. A manually operated valve is NOT a regulator. The explosion will happen when the electrical demand on the generator fluctuates, more gas flows in than the generator needs, the engine will backfire through the intake manifold and excess gas inside the generator will explode. Lots of schrapnel... MUST USE A REGULATOR.
Is there any damage done to the engine over time from running natural gas to a genny designed for liquid gas? I read some where liquid gas lubricates some internal parts? I thought oil covered all the parts? But I read that dual fuel and tri fuel gennies are designed differently internally, valves maybe?, to some extent to handle propane/ natural gas. That doing this conversion would shorten the life of the engine. Does any one know if there is any truth to what I read? I want to try this.
This generator is only going to be run a few hours every once in a while, so I’m not very concerned about its long-term health. If you scroll down in the comments, someone suggested that natural gas generators should have gasoline run through them every once in a while to remove carbon buildup I think. That would be easy enough, since this generator will work either way.
I had a Honda Civic GX (same as LX, but ran on only CNG) - virtually zero emissions, meaning no residual carbon. Super clean. CNG vehicles get a Clean Air Vehicle sticker and can drive in carpool lanes.
Everything I've read says running on NG, LNG, Propane, are worlds cleaner than gas/petrol. I've heard tear-downs of LNG engines mostly show them as looking almost new after years of service. The fuel pump is usually lubricated by the fuel it is pumping, however most genset in consumer range don't even have fuel pumps.
Run a tank of hi-test gas once a year if it'll make you feel better.
I have been watching other videos on conversions of generators to Natural gas and wondering why all of them use a $40 to $200 regulator and carburetor? Is there a reason you didn't go to that kind of regulator because you're going to run it only on natural gas and not propane and gasoline? I hope time hasn't passed too much that you won't find this question hopefully someone on the community can answer this too so thank you
Its all about getting the correct fuel air mixture. The engine pulls in roughly a constant flow of air. I simply adjust the natural gas until it runs. This generator can still run on gasoline. A regulator will stop the flow of gas when the engine stops for any reason. My solution won’t stop the gas, but natural gas is 2x lighter than air and will immediately and harmlessly float away. Always run generators outdoors.
@@HowToLou NG is about half as dense as air, not 1/40 as dense.
I stand corrected. Natural gas is lighter than air (density of air is 1.293 kg/Sm3, density of natural gas is 0.68 kg/Sm3); consequently it rises quickly in air. I also edited my earlier comment. Thank you.
Doing it safely and correctly will cost more. Force feeding pressurized natural gas or propane into the airbox unregulated is sure recipe for disaster. Not to mention there is no control of the gas metering under changing load demand.
Is it duel fuel generator or strictly gas
Is was a gas generator when I bought it. Now it will do either
so i want to do this to my p216 onan welder engine which is gas0line .i can hook to air cleaner like you showed and just turn my gas fuel line petcock off . i dont need to buy the gas preasure regulator and venturi orface that goes between carb and air cleaner .pal you just made my day because i use my welder for winter power outages .
Yours will work like mine
How to Change old petroleum caburattor to gas caburrator
I would simply remove and replace.
Very nice Sir
Genius Genius, Genius
And u never need to change the oil
But check it time to time
U may need to add oil
I hope all your viewers understand that the generator MUST be outdoors away from any openings where leaking gas could collect
Yes, All generators of this type are made to run outdoors. Natural gas is far lighter than air and will harmlessly float away.
This is not safe
i think i need to convert my motorbike
You can, but need to compress NG to 3000 psi to change to a liquid so you can carry enough. Any you need a tank that can hold it