#08 - Need a REST on Via Ferrata? | Via Ferrata tutorial for Beginners | Practical Tips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- Need a BREAK, to STOP or a REST on Via Ferrata?
In this video I present the two widely used resting systems for Via Ferrata, their advantages and disadvantages plus many other tips one should know about resting on a Via Ferrata.
Summary
00:00:00 Introduction to resting on Via Ferrata
00:00:34 Presentation of Via Ferrata resting systems
00:01:04 Analysis of one resting system - Option A
00:01:54 Disadvantages of this Via Ferrata resting system - Option A
00:02:22 A possible fatal error to avoid while using this resting system - Option A
00:03:13 Closing arguments about this Via Ferrata resting system - Option A
00:03:58 Analysis of another resting system - Option B
00:05:01 Disadvantages of this Via Ferrata resting system - Option B
00:05:43 A possible fatal error to avoid while using this resting system - Option B
This is one of the episodes of what I want it to be a step-by-step nonprofessional guide to Via Ferrata.
BE ADVISED! I'm not a professional guide, mountaineer, alpine climber or Via Ferrata climber; only an enthusiastic mountaineer eager to try help and explain my experience so far.
All episodes are as short and concise possible.
Love it each time he says 'Via Ferata Set' with that Italian groove.
😂 ❤️ Thank you!
Good considerations and warnings!
Thank you!
Thank you!
I was asked this question a few times and I will answer it here as well; with a Via Ferrata resting system I recommend using one of these carabiners:
1. Petzl Vertigo Wire-Lock www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Carabiners-And-Quickdraws/VERTIGO-WIRE-LOCK
2. Climbing Technology K-Classic www.climbingtechnology.com/en/outdoor-en/carabiners/k-classic2/k-classic
3. Singing Rock K5330PE (I think they name it Via Ferrata Lock) www.singingrock.com/via-ferrata-lock
If you can only use Petzl Vertigo Wire-Lock do it because they are the most versatile and they helped me in various difficult scenarios better than the K-Classic or the K5330PE.
4:18 What kind of carabiners would you suggest related to the Y-shaped lanyard?
For my self I use the Petzl Vertigo Wire Lock for the longer arm of the Ypsilon (Y shaped lanyard) and a Climbing Technology K-Classic for the shorter arm.
Can you please link to the Y-shaped lanyard you showed? I can't find that kind of product anywhere.
First link is the manufacturer page. Second and third link on-line shops for Europe.
www.climbingtechnology.com/en/professional-en/textile_anchors/ypsilon_
www.bergfreunde.eu/climbing-technology-ypsilon-lanyard-personal-tether/
www.tradeinn.com/trekkinn/en/climbing-technology-ypsilon-sling/136347305/p
Hi jetset, I'm enjoying your videos. in this one you talk about the resting systems available but you don't mention adjustable lanyards such as the Petzl Connect or the Kong Slyde with a length of rope. Climbers use these for quick connection to the belay point on sport climbs and they allow one to clip into a resting point and quickly adjust the length so one is immediately comfortable sitting in the harness. Do you feel they are too complex for this forum or do you not trust them?
Hello Patrick.
I have the Petzl Connect Adjust and something similar from Climbing Technology. The other day I was reading about a Via Ferrata in Spain I would like to go climb. Since it was made some people died because of their human error. After investigating and trying to conclude myself what led to so many death incidents I realised that the issue was the commercial appeal of the Via Ferrata. What this means? People with zero experience in anything wall related gone up there and made tragic errors. With a Petzl Connect is easy to get it wrong. Plus, the stress on the system. In rock climbing or rappelling you only use it at the belly points when multi pitching or when getting ready to rappell. On Via Ferrata you will use that multiple times per climb. To make an error and loose equilibrium and then fall somehow is easy. And, because these are open systems you never know how one might end up at the end of the rope. I myself was considering the option to at least test them on overhanging Via Ferrata but the adjustable length is putting pressure on me as a Via Ferrata climber. When I rock climb it makes sense but in Via Ferrata everything is so different and when I need the resting system clipped in case of emergency, being faced with the need to also adjust adds complexity and it might be the reason I will fall. Because they are open systems you have to clip and adjust. That "adjust" part will consume time and expose the climber. It is why I for now didn't spoke of them. I have them, they are very good at belay stations, I love Petzl Connect Adjust but for Via Ferrata I think the system should be as static and straightforward possible. Again, lets remember that the majority of the people are absolute beginners that have no training and no preexisting exposure to the wall. I've seen your comments about rock climbing and training at a wall climbing gym. I do that. In fact I will just now go to the wall climbing gym to train. But, let's remember that while rock climbing a Via Ferrata is fun, will also expose you to falls. Wall Climbing will make you stronger, will definitely help you learn control but at the end of the day, rock climbing and Via Ferrata are different systems of going up the mountain and they require specialised training. I don't want to say that you were wrong in your comment. Again, I myself am going now to the wall climbing gym to train because I plan to go on big Via Ferrata routes this spring. What I'm probably trying to convey is that a Via Ferrata beginner will have to train on Via Ferrata and not think that wall climbing is the magic answer to the problem. In both bouldering and wall climbing falling is the norm. You get into trouble and you let yourself drop. In Via Ferrata the routes are long, the approach might be long, the exit might be dangerous so...wall climbing and bouldering they don't prepare you for that. But again, I myself am going to the wall climbing gym and I find it useful for training and getting ready for big adventures. I will reply to that separately if I can make a good argument if not, I will just leave it as is because you are right, going to the wall climbing gym helps somehow.
@@JetSetYourself Thanks for your very clear and well thought out reply, I understand your reservations. I've come to Via Ferrata from rock climbing and tend to see it as an extension and more free and quick way of climbing a mountain. I wasn't really aware of how many people are coming to it purely as otherwise inexperienced via ferratists (if that's a word). I've been amazed by some of the videos I've seen of people without the right gear doing them and I think your clear and precise videos are a huge help and hopefully will avoid some injuries and deaths that might otherwise have happened. Keep up the good work.
What are your thoughts on using the Petzl Connect Adjust for resting system on a via ferrata?
Just published a video on this th-cam.com/video/d4ntdvVmt2M/w-d-xo.html
In short, Petzl Connect Adjust can be used but it requires skill and experience.
I have a question: can you use any climbing-certified carabiner (with locking mechanism) as a resting carabiner on your via ferrata set, or do you need a special via ferrata carabiner?
For my resting systems I use Petzl Vertigo Wire Lock, Climbing Technology K-Classic, Singing Rock VIA FERRATA / K5330PE. All three are labeled K (keylock) carabiners. I will say that any keylock carabiner will do. Why use this type of carabiner? Because it is easy, fast, practical on Via Ferrata. You can use the Rocklock Twistlock from Black Diamond or Petzl William ball-lock but they are not as easy, handy, fast to snap as the keylock carabiners mentioned above.
@@JetSetYourself thank you so much! Very informative👍👍
I would love to ask you something about my resting sistem, Y type resting sistem made by Petzl, the only way to connect it to the harness is by karabiner, what you you think about the conection and is it smart to connect a karabiner directly to the harness? Thx for the video and hopefuly for your answer :)
The rule is to have as few (not many) connections into the system. Utilising a carabiner will introduce possibility of weak points and human error into the system. In theory a carabiner is strong enough to withstand the forces you might apply. Into a static system, the probability of a carabiner to be smashed is close to none. Of course, you have to make sure the carabiner never opens and always stays properly closed.
Can you use it like this? Absolutely. Follow the safety rules, make sure to not commit any human errors and will work just fine.
In general, systems should be kept as simple possible. The reason I avoid this type of connection is because it introduces complexity into the system. One extra link for example.
Under no circumstance connect the Via Ferrata to the belay loop with a carabiner.
Now, on the same topic, ideal, we shall use both base loops (hips and legs loops) in place of the belay (for increased redundancy). It is how they connect the figure 8 know while rock climbing. Two loops will always be better than one.
When it comes to safety it is always ify. Plus, we can always be in doubt. You never know what when how will fail. At the end, it is about building good habits. Make sure to properly use and test the systems. Don't forget to test the systems before you start climbing, make sure to only use the Y for resting.
Not for last, on resting, at the end of the day, one can get away by just using (for resting) a quickdraw. To me, the Y is the most versatile, I got used to it, it helps in many situations, I will not give up on it. The idea was that a quickdraw is actually clipping a carabiner to the belay loop for resting. And will work. Remember, the Via Ferrata Set has to always be properly installed, properly used, always connect to the safety steel cable.
@@JetSetYourself thank you for your answer, I appreciate your knowledge and help. The carabiner i'm using is the one with a safety lock mechanism so it is not possible for me to open the carabiner connecting the resting system to the harness while on the ferrata. But i would be definetely more relaxed if the connecrion would not be metal so it doesnt rub and dammage the harness itself. Safe climbing and thx again :)
Dear @JetSetYourself,
I have a lot of hiking experience and I will start my via ferrata journey this summer. Your videos have been very helpful! Regarding resting systems, do you recommend one of the two primary options for someone who is just starting out? Personally, it seems more logical to starting with your option A) directly attaching a carabiner to the shock absorber resting loop, perhaps at the expensive of the lifespan of the set, since there are fewer mistakes to be made. I would like to hear your thoughts! Thanks again, Tren
In my opinion a carabiner clipped to the loop of the shock absorber will force you to struggle before you properly rest (will not be long enough). But, will do the job. Better something than nothing. Just do that. But, I advise to have something more with you in the backback just in case. Of course, if you will go on easy Via Ferrata where you will never need to stop and rest, the keep it as simple and cheap possible. It like me you will get on the hardest possible Via Ferrata the a good resting system will help you a lot.
@@JetSetYourself Awesome! That's very helpful! Do you have a video or any tips on emergency gear? Thank you!
@@trenb917 ask me what interests (or worries you) so that I can know if I can point you to one of the videos or just give you some tips. I use a lot of emergency gear and I take some with me when I go solo climbing. In general I put emphasis on falling the right way and to be able to sit upright until help will come (in case happens). Then I will most probably have something to attempt self recovery in case I don't get that injured so that I can no longer continue
Dear author,
Many thanks for your excellent and useful videos.
If possible, I would like to ask several questions you since you have a lot of experience in this kind of activity.
1) I usually (ok, only 4 times all in all) go to ferratas alone and the highest difficulty I experienced was K4. One day I want to go to K5 route, but I'm quite afraid of problems there. What kind of problems I can face and which additional skills are worth to get before starting K5-K6 via ferrata? Or the problem is you only need to be fit enough? I think for the moment I have only hiking skills and knowledge of how to attach my VF kit to a steel wire.
2) Which equipment and skills are required for using zip-lines (for sure pulley, but is it enough)?
Thank you in advance
I will start with number two. It takes less. You need a pulley gloves to properly break and protect your hands, to know the zipline breaking system and what to expect at the end of it because you need to know ahead how will you break. Other than the pulley, the harness, glowed, helmet, you need the lanyard to fix yourself with the pulley and redundancy (at least one lanyard with a carabiner that will sit on the line behind the pulley or fixed on top of the pulley. Zip-lining is fun. The most difficult part is breaking. Many wild zip-lines (I need a label for the zip-lines that are not commercial and guided) are built in such way that you break automatically through physics. Some require palm breaking and use of your legs on impact. This can get you into trouble. In case you stop on the line you will need recovery techniques to get yourself to the end.
How to move from K4 to K5/K6. Well, K6 is already Extremely Difficult+. Let's not speak about that. K6 or F level Via Ferrata require extensive experience and if you are not well prepared you will either made a fatal mistake or help will have to come for you (if you go solo). If you go assisted, for sure you will end up with a big scare and yes extreme fitness and technique are required.
For K5(E) Level Via Ferrata you need training, some technique, great equipment and resilience.
Let me explain.
Is possible to solo climb K5(E) Via Ferrata. I do it and when I first time did it was because there is always a first time. Then a second and so forth. Whben I did it I made I'm as prepared possible. Fitness is good to have. Somehow a requirement but is more about technique than fitness. Muscle force will only help you up to a point. On a K5(E) level Via Ferrata one way or another you will get tired fast. Actually, exhausted. No matter what happens it ends with you exhausted. You will need practice technique, resilience and good equipment. By good equipment I mean all you might need to take breaks, advance with the help of the equipment when you get into trouble, avoid falls. There are some situations you almost cannot get out if you are alone and fall. In that case you are left with hoping that the equipment will hold you until help arrives and of course Fort hat situations you have to have the right equipment to be able to call for help. You need to be as best possible prepared for situations where you might get injured and have to wait for help. You have to have a way to call for it.
The elements of a K5(E) level Via Ferrata are many. Overhanging long vertical ascents with no real holds to grab, bridges that push you out, pendulums, vertical or overhanging ladders, you name it. Each will need technique to recover and sometimes some equipment. A carabiner with a Prusik might help on some verticals based on circumstances. A rope might help in other. The resting system in other and so forth.
You need to know the elements before going on a Via Ferrata and prepare based on that. I've been on a K5(E) Via Ferrata in Austria where for a large part of it I could not put my legs on anything. A constant overhang. It is to date the hardest K5(E) I climbed. I helped myself with the resting system, I almost cried and I used all my force and technique possible. Guess, will I return? Of course. I need to do it at least one more time. On other K5(E) Via Ferrata I had no holds and the safety steel cable of French style with no way to grab it. The risk of falling was maximum. I took a gamble and did it but I was almost there about to fall. Don't ask me what technique I used because it was more about me having my hands stuck inyo a crack, feeling intense pain and how they slowly slip out. Then I tock out one hand and jumped where I hoped a hold will be good enough to grab. It was a good hold. I did it a second time. I forgot how I solved it because jumping on the hold was no longer an option. You will have to do your first K5(E) eventually. Take with you more than just the Via Ferrata Set. Have a proper Y resting system. Have an extra longer lanyard. Have a Prusik with a carabiner. Having them is not enough. You also need to know when and how to use them because they might create hazard if not properly used. Training helps. The more you train the more your body will learn how to handle complex situations. It also helps to build resistance.
@@JetSetYourself Many thanks, I will do it for sure, but after heavy preparations) I have never used anything more than just ferrata kit. So, after reading a list of your difficulties and equipment suggestions I will think twice before going to K5) But I really enjoy K4 at the moment
Do you think taking some courses or watching some youtube videos is enough?
@@JetSetYourself And as for Zip-lines, thanks a lot for the tips, I have never thought about this additional safety. In my opinion it was enough just to use ferrata kit and gloves. Now it is much more clear
Taking some courses or watching TH-cam, will this help? Well, it depends on multiple factors but in general yes, why not? Of course, it depends a lot on the quality of the content, of the course the ability of learning of the attendees but in general anything that educates can be oc some sort of good. Some times we are taught the wrong thing, not enough or out of scope but again, in general, anything that has the purpose to educate can help. But, at the end of the day, you will have to do it. You will need the practice. Will practice have a better result if you also educate yourself? Absolutely. If you just go out there and train and exercise you will do it but you don't use any acquired experience by the some many other people and educators. You can practice without education but you cannot do it just by education yourself. We'll, you can try move to action from the classroom but is a big thing. Educate yourself on the topic (learning never stops) but also get to action and train, exercise. When it comes to Via Ferrata, moving from K4(D) to K5(E) has to just happen. The safest way of doing so is to choose a shorter K5(E). In this way you maximise your chance of getting through the experience without losing control totally. Of course, if you fall from 100 or 300 metres is the same but it is obvious that a 100m Via Ferrata will be easier to do than a 300m Via Ferrata.
For my case I just did it. I try not to get in over my head. So far I was good. I will keep training. Now I go to the climbing gym to learn some technique, I will try find more time for training so that I can have as many skill possible when I will face my next K5(E) Via Ferrata (soon).
Great. I will use this video in my resting loop article. Thanks :) By the way, where are you from? Do you run via ferrata courses?
Hello @ClimbePI - I look forward to reading your article. Will be great if you can let us know about it once ready.
I'm Europe based. If you want to know where I live and work, UK. But I have relatively easy access to the mountains of Europe. Unfortunately I don't live next to a mountain or in areas like North Italy, Switzerland, East of France or Austria.
I organise Via Ferrata experiences (no payment required/free of charge) from time to time. This includes training as well.
If it can help you bellow are more videos on resting. It is a big topic (important) and I will most probably soon record one more.
th-cam.com/video/FbcWYv1e-mk/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/0v4QKceUpVo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/ICAuAuQD9dI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/OKYNHi7PysE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/nNmkFPnR5fg/w-d-xo.html
Cant find anywhere that y shaped lanyard? Do u have any link?
www.bergfreunde.eu/climbing-technology-ypsilon-lanyard-personal-tether/?aid=c3fbcdf44a319275f2b09a6d4febcb31&pid=10004&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrvPkmPvKgQMVBlaRBR3MGAusEAQYAiABEgJrGfD_BwE&wt_mc=eu.pla.google_eu.18006456220
www.tradeinn.com/trekkinn/en/climbing-technology-ypsilon-sling/136347305/p
8a.ro/lonja-climbing-technology-ypsilon (I buy more and more from them, a EU based shop originating from Poland I think that is reliable, affordable, with great available of products you don't find somewhere else)
I ordered the petzl scorpio eashook. It comes with a third and short arm for resting. So, using that for resting could reduce the lifespan of the system? I bought that specifically to save some money... hahaha... Thanks for your videos. They're great and really informative.
Don't worry about the lifespan. Focus on safety right now. Eventually if you use it that often and you see the shock absorber sealing breaking than you can start worrying about safety. For now you will be OK. Just focus on learning how the resting system you've chosen works for you best. You need to practice and get to know your equipment from inside out to be able to utilise without the need to think.
Ótimas colocações!
Algumas técnicas não podem ser realizadas. Sempre imaginar em caso de queda. O quê aconteceria? Etc etc.
Obrigado por compartilhar!
Saudações do Brasil!
Thank you. I love Brazil! 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Regards from Europe.
How much cm is the ideal sling?
Ideal length? No longer than the length of your arm. The idea is to make sure you always are at arms reach from the point where you connected the carabiner attached to the outer extremity of the sling/lanyard. If it is longer than this you will end way below and will be harder to get back up. Also, the longer it is, the more prone to error and danger the resting system becomes. Anything between very short and the length of your arm will work. Ideally will be half the length or almost the length of your arm.
where is that y-lanyard from?
The Ypsilon (the y-lanyard) is from Climbing Technology.
Please NEVER EVER use a static sling as a "rastschlinge" !
They WILL FAIL VERY EASILY in case of even a minor fall, not to mention that this fall itself can kill you because of extremely large forces working on your spine!
Only use dynamic rope resting slings such as:
Edelrid "Switch Adjust"
Petzl "Connect Adjust"
Resting implies static load of the sling. There shall be no reason to fall. If properly utilised, a fall shall be static enough to not load the sling to the degree of a rupture of the sling itself or as you say, with dramatic effects on the structure of our body. It is true, dynamic rope can in the right circumstance help. Again, resting systems are for resting and if properly loaded there shall be no reason to get into the edge case scenario you use as a base for your call to action. If wrongly utilised yes, the effects you mention can happen, but these are edge case scenarios. On a bridge crossing a static resting system will not 0ut the climber in any danger if properly loaded. The slack is close to none, in case of a fall the climber will mostly swing. Now, let's suppose that the webbing will break, the climber is supposed at all times on a Via Ferrata to be clipped with the Via Ferrata Set to the safety steel cable. Again, the probability for the static webbing to rupture is low is special/edge conditions are not met.
For vertical sections, the resting system shall be statically loaded and in this case there is no way of a fall. On vertical segments, the climber shall always stay way below the cable and again, the resting system shall be statically loaded with no chance of dynamic loading.
The rupture of the webbing is a possibility if overloaded and the loading of it is dynamic enough under the stress of the overload to trigger that.
If the static resting system is misused and a fall occurs yes, the worst can happen. But again, in this case is not the problem of using a static resting system (recommended for the cases where it is properly used) but of improperly using it.
Yes, a static sling is meant for static loads. A resting situation is founded on the premise of a static load. The recomandation to employ the help of the resting system (if conditions of zero slack and no possibility of static load are met) is because if properly utilised it increases comfort and safety.
It is important to understand all these details. It is also important to understand that the role of a resting system is to rest and shall not be utilised for personal protection on Via Ferrata. The only device to always be used on a Via Ferrata for personal protection shall be the Via Ferrata Set.