What always bugged me, aside from the endless supply of “themed” sets (do we really need a Willy Wonka 0-8-0??) was the lack of western railroads in starter sets. Particularly newer locomotives. I’d love to see a LionChief Amtrak F40ph with Superliners or even in Metra or CalTrain colors. Now THAT would be a huge seller.
For me, lionels starter sets were a great way of getting new engines and rolling stock at an affordable cost. I remember when lionel had dedicated ready to run catalogs. Today, every set is a licensed theme, there is hardly any sets based on real railroads. And on the topic of diversifying the types of engines and rolling stock, lionel has a stockpile of outdated or semi scale toolings that would fit perfectly in a starter set. Nowadays liones ready to run stuff feels like a cheep after thought, instead of a prominent part of the hobby.
You make excellent points about play value in sets. I have fond memories of the Lionel Navy set from the 1990s -- this was the first set I ever bought -- for my daughter -- and we had so much fun. The set came with the usual gondola with fuel cannisters, but also included a crane (great for those inevitable wrecks!), a caboose with rotating beacon, and of course -- that submarine on flatcar (I managed to keep it out of the bathtub but it was a close call!). Plenty of ways to have fun just with what was in the box. Add some Lego guys, a few Corgis/Matchbox cars, and some imagination, and you have some real adventure potential. I think every set that Lionel makes should include -- as you indicate -- something really special that functions as a hub for further expansion.
When I was a kid, my first set was a Rock Island Express set with the Mighty Sound of Steam and smoke. I also got some remote turnouts and I could also run my dad's Illinois Central set. He also had some Plasticville buildings, a crossing guard and a lot of tube track.
Good video. You're not wrong. And honestly, all Lionel has to do is look back to its own past, particularly the MPC era, which was a much better time than many Lionel fans think. So many RTR sets with play value sold through major retailers like Sears and Toys R Us. Just one example, the Heavy Iron Thunder Freight set sold through Toys R Us, did the following: gave you a 7 unit consist marked Missouri Kansas Texas, so there's your underrepresented western railroad, a figure eight of 027 tube track, so no boring loop, a plastic bridge to travel through, a plastic grade crossing to travel over, one of the freight cars delivered a Toys R Us trailer so you were provided a diesel truck cab to pull the trailer, likewise there was a matching Toys R Us boxcar in the consist. The 4-4-2 locomotive was conventional of course but it smoked, had a working headlight and the tender had an included air whistle. This was in the 1990s. And there were several similar sets throughout the 70s and 80s. Some with more, some with less, but definitely packed with play value. It would be great if Lionel would return to this philosophy.
My first Lionel set was a Coastal Limited set in the 90s. It came with a crossing, telephone poles, and random items for the gondola and boxcar. It provided that extra play value and seemed to encourage expansion by those simple things. I agree an oval of track gets boring. There should be more figure 8s or even include a switch or 2 for sidings or reverse loops. It would provide more enjoyment for kids to get into it more. As for new molds, I couldn’t agree more. Being that I’m forever a postwar collector it really doesn’t matter to me but for more people I think it would be worth looking into. I think they also need to work on their reliability issues they have been having for a long time. There are a lot of locomotives that are basically doorstops due to a board being bad and no parts are available to fix them. If you have a thousand dollars wrapped up in it, that would be unsettling for me. But as I said, I collect mainly postwar and that stuff will run on hopes and dreams…… just maybe not as good as it can lol.
In my opinion, I think the issue is Lionel's mostly focused on scale/Legacy items, and the traditional stuff has been left to stagnate under an endless series of pop culture tie-in paint jobs, and half-hearted mis-steps like the HO line and the die-cast Nascar line. Lionel could do well by returning to its roots and investing in some new semi-scale locomotives for the Lionchief line, and not just poaching old MTH Railking toolings. Paint 'em up in the classic Lionel Lines lettering so licensing is a non-issue. In the sets, at least some of them should have a different track plan over the basic oval or circle. The figure 8 is a popular beginner's setup, so some sets should have it, maybe an extra piece of rolling stock or two as well for a little bit more than a basic set. Regardless, all sets ought to have at least one operating car or operating lineside accessory. The ever-popular gateman would be a natural choice to go along with your idea of including a grade crossing section. Best part of Lionel trains is all the interactive accessories that let the trains actually do something besides run around in circles. Small pet wish of mine, but bringing back O27 tubular track would be awesome, especially the switches. Ultimately I've been very interested in how Menards has been getting on with their F units moreso than anything Lionel's done these past few years. Buy their freight cars regularly as they're simply more affordable, so I'm hoping the F unit gets a full release soon for much the same reason.
They might get turned off by how high the price tags are for separate pieces and equipment. That’s what ended my O scale layout after I bought the starter set.
I was using my imagination when I was a kid. If you can’t figure out how to make a beginners train entertaining, that’s on you. Plastic cowboys and horses went a long way along with die cast vehicles. Now at almost fifty, I still use them although now I paint them and make the surroundings look cool.
Dick kughn era sets from 80s to at _least_ 2004 were the last saving grace in set quality for Lionel. Hell I can provide ample experience too cause younger me had a Bloomingdales exclusive NYC flyer. Still have the cars but engine is lost in the attic *supposedly* Hell I’d say the Penn flyer from 07 was a last hurrah too.
I have been messaging Lionel and trying to give them ideas. Lionel has been sadly overlooking their traditional line quite a lot. I also find their Lionchief Plus 2.0 is a bit over the top. Sure it’s nice to have engines with almost Legacy-like features but the pricing and such is a bit too much. Like, why does a Doodlebug or an RDC need LC+ 2.0? Lionchief and Lionchief Plus are good enough for me. Also, the sounds. I find the sounds are a little too tinny and cheap sounding. Many of their engines from the 90s through to the early 2000’s had awesome Railsounds sound files. Various whistles on steamers to horns on diesels, plus road specific crew talk sometimes. To sum it all up, sometimes simpler is better and if people want to upgrade their engines Lionel used to either provide add on cars (like a Railsounds tender) or had their tooling to allow upgrades to simpler locomotives (like allowing a 2-8-4 Jr. Berkshire to be upgraded from conventional to TMCC). The 0-8-0 is great, but more engines are sorely needed. Pacifics, Mikados, Hudsons, Berkshires, Mountains, Northerns, even their legendary Train Masters from FM. Lionel “looked” like they were releasing a set featuring their famous 6-8-6 S2 Turbine from the Pennsy, but I have no clue about it now honestly. As well, allow us traditional modellers to get access to engines like Consolidations and even mallets. MTH gave that option to people which Lionel overlooked. Sure Lionel bought the H class Pennsy 2-8-0 tooling, and perhaps even their geeps, but did they buy anything else? Also, who can afford a “universal remote”? LionChief and LionChief Plus at least gave remotes with their engines (unlike recently with their new 2-8-0 and FT offerings). They did release a “The Texan” passenger set with two add on cars, so there is that. But more road names would be great, including Canadian (as I am Canadian) and even Mexican ones (as a lot of American and Canadian engines and rolling stock found second lives down South of the borders, like the Alco PA’s.).
I also forgot. Lionel has brought back many of their old toolings (like the Berkshire) so why not bring back many of their classic sets with LionChief electronics? These sets were fun, colourful, had 1-2 action cars (sometimes more!) and had lots of track. Finally, unpainted models. Lionel had made an undecorated LionChief 0-8-0 #99 as part of a cancelled ‘Personalization Set’ with fine tooling and everything. These undecorated 0-8-0 locos would allow anyone to customize their engines to represent their favourite road or company. So why not offer these alongside their painted counterparts. It would be a shame to have to strip a Santa Fe Warbonnet diesel of its colours just so someone can get the roadname that they like and want.
You miss the whole Lionel market segment. Lionel targets high dollar collectors with china sourced products for the greatest profit margin. They are not interested in low profit margins associated with sets for children. Long term goals and longevity are traits of the past. Cheap throw away high profit vs minimum investment is the way of life today. IMHO the toy train market ship has sailed as have many other things when referring to youth of today.
Lionel should look at the "Loss leader" technique of giving great deals, even at a loss with their starter sets. Then, more people get into the hobby and buy the expensive stuff later, and that's where the profit lies. Toy trains are still of interest to youth, they just need to be as competitive as they used to.
What always bugged me, aside from the endless supply of “themed” sets (do we really need a Willy Wonka 0-8-0??) was the lack of western railroads in starter sets. Particularly newer locomotives. I’d love to see a LionChief Amtrak F40ph with Superliners or even in Metra or CalTrain colors. Now THAT would be a huge seller.
I swear. Looking at nj transit model railroad stuff, it sells like wild fire. You are 100000% percent right about the commuter stuff.
Really enjoyed your video, fingers crossed that they see this. Great video my friend!😊
For me, lionels starter sets were a great way of getting new engines and rolling stock at an affordable cost. I remember when lionel had dedicated ready to run catalogs. Today, every set is a licensed theme, there is hardly any sets based on real railroads. And on the topic of diversifying the types of engines and rolling stock, lionel has a stockpile of outdated or semi scale toolings that would fit perfectly in a starter set. Nowadays liones ready to run stuff feels like a cheep after thought, instead of a prominent part of the hobby.
I agree. Thanks for your perspective
My thoughts exactly. It sounds like a good idea but it isn’t easy
I agree with you. Great Suggestions. I hope they listened
You make excellent points about play value in sets. I have fond memories of the Lionel Navy set from the 1990s -- this was the first set I ever bought -- for my daughter -- and we had so much fun. The set came with the usual gondola with fuel cannisters, but also included a crane (great for those inevitable wrecks!), a caboose with rotating beacon, and of course -- that submarine on flatcar (I managed to keep it out of the bathtub but it was a close call!). Plenty of ways to have fun just with what was in the box. Add some Lego guys, a few Corgis/Matchbox cars, and some imagination, and you have some real adventure potential. I think every set that Lionel makes should include -- as you indicate -- something really special that functions as a hub for further expansion.
Thanks for contributing your experiences and points of view!
They did do rock island steamers twice yet I still want an accurate rock island 0-8-0
When I was a kid, my first set was a Rock Island Express set with the Mighty Sound of Steam and smoke. I also got some remote turnouts and I could also run my dad's Illinois Central set. He also had some Plasticville buildings, a crossing guard and a lot of tube track.
Good video. You're not wrong. And honestly, all Lionel has to do is look back to its own past, particularly the MPC era, which was a much better time than many Lionel fans think. So many RTR sets with play value sold through major retailers like Sears and Toys R Us. Just one example, the Heavy Iron Thunder Freight set sold through Toys R Us, did the following: gave you a 7 unit consist marked Missouri Kansas Texas, so there's your underrepresented western railroad, a figure eight of 027 tube track, so no boring loop, a plastic bridge to travel through, a plastic grade crossing to travel over, one of the freight cars delivered a Toys R Us trailer so you were provided a diesel truck cab to pull the trailer, likewise there was a matching Toys R Us boxcar in the consist. The 4-4-2 locomotive was conventional of course but it smoked, had a working headlight and the tender had an included air whistle. This was in the 1990s. And there were several similar sets throughout the 70s and 80s. Some with more, some with less, but definitely packed with play value. It would be great if Lionel would return to this philosophy.
I would love to see new scale bi level cars and some new scaled modern equipment would be cool.
Yep i hear you , its crazy when you think of how many pieces just lionel made !
I like this new kind of video. It’s really good.
My first Lionel set was a Coastal Limited set in the 90s. It came with a crossing, telephone poles, and random items for the gondola and boxcar. It provided that extra play value and seemed to encourage expansion by those simple things.
I agree an oval of track gets boring. There should be more figure 8s or even include a switch or 2 for sidings or reverse loops. It would provide more enjoyment for kids to get into it more.
As for new molds, I couldn’t agree more. Being that I’m forever a postwar collector it really doesn’t matter to me but for more people I think it would be worth looking into.
I think they also need to work on their reliability issues they have been having for a long time. There are a lot of locomotives that are basically doorstops due to a board being bad and no parts are available to fix them. If you have a thousand dollars wrapped up in it, that would be unsettling for me. But as I said, I collect mainly postwar and that stuff will run on hopes and dreams…… just maybe not as good as it can lol.
In my opinion, I think the issue is Lionel's mostly focused on scale/Legacy items, and the traditional stuff has been left to stagnate under an endless series of pop culture tie-in paint jobs, and half-hearted mis-steps like the HO line and the die-cast Nascar line.
Lionel could do well by returning to its roots and investing in some new semi-scale locomotives for the Lionchief line, and not just poaching old MTH Railking toolings. Paint 'em up in the classic Lionel Lines lettering so licensing is a non-issue.
In the sets, at least some of them should have a different track plan over the basic oval or circle. The figure 8 is a popular beginner's setup, so some sets should have it, maybe an extra piece of rolling stock or two as well for a little bit more than a basic set.
Regardless, all sets ought to have at least one operating car or operating lineside accessory. The ever-popular gateman would be a natural choice to go along with your idea of including a grade crossing section. Best part of Lionel trains is all the interactive accessories that let the trains actually do something besides run around in circles.
Small pet wish of mine, but bringing back O27 tubular track would be awesome, especially the switches.
Ultimately I've been very interested in how Menards has been getting on with their F units moreso than anything Lionel's done these past few years. Buy their freight cars regularly as they're simply more affordable, so I'm hoping the F unit gets a full release soon for much the same reason.
Lionel should include their most recent catalog in every set. The new hobbyist would see what all is available.
Good idea
They might get turned off by how high the price tags are for separate pieces and equipment. That’s what ended my O scale layout after I bought the starter set.
If they made a big boy starter set that would be cool or a Acela train set
I was using my imagination when I was a kid. If you can’t figure out how to make a beginners train entertaining, that’s on you. Plastic cowboys and horses went a long way along with die cast vehicles. Now at almost fifty, I still use them although now I paint them and make the surroundings look cool.
Cool video friend!
This is where Menards is flourishing. Most lionel and mth products are way to expensive. Having crap build in china kills it for me
Well, everything is. It would be great to move production to the US but right now that's just not possible.
Also it’s incredibly hard to find Lionel sets in stores you can’t find them in any major retail stores like Target or Walmart
I do agree however, they do need more recent models and give the steam locomotives a break.
Dick kughn era sets from 80s to at _least_ 2004 were the last saving grace in set quality for Lionel.
Hell I can provide ample experience too cause younger me had a Bloomingdales exclusive NYC flyer.
Still have the cars but engine is lost in the attic *supposedly*
Hell I’d say the Penn flyer from 07 was a last hurrah too.
lionel needs to incorporate Carrera Slot car track into Lionel track
They also have the remains of K Line they could pull from include them in there sets
Great video!
i agree the switchies are like hafe the price of som good condition used engines
Your vintage footage is all reversed. Good video!
Thanks. I did that to avoid possible copyright detection
Nice ideas,but the price of retooling
Yea, I would hope Lionel would quickly regain the lost cost of tooling from the sale of the products made from them.
@@chicagolandrailroader I wonder
Their prices keep rising
And some product is old tooling.not a complaint, just an observation
I have been messaging Lionel and trying to give them ideas. Lionel has been sadly overlooking their traditional line quite a lot. I also find their Lionchief Plus 2.0 is a bit over the top. Sure it’s nice to have engines with almost Legacy-like features but the pricing and such is a bit too much. Like, why does a Doodlebug or an RDC need LC+ 2.0? Lionchief and Lionchief Plus are good enough for me. Also, the sounds. I find the sounds are a little too tinny and cheap sounding. Many of their engines from the 90s through to the early 2000’s had awesome Railsounds sound files. Various whistles on steamers to horns on diesels, plus road specific crew talk sometimes. To sum it all up, sometimes simpler is better and if people want to upgrade their engines Lionel used to either provide add on cars (like a Railsounds tender) or had their tooling to allow upgrades to simpler locomotives (like allowing a 2-8-4 Jr. Berkshire to be upgraded from conventional to TMCC).
The 0-8-0 is great, but more engines are sorely needed. Pacifics, Mikados, Hudsons, Berkshires, Mountains, Northerns, even their legendary Train Masters from FM. Lionel “looked” like they were releasing a set featuring their famous 6-8-6 S2 Turbine from the Pennsy, but I have no clue about it now honestly. As well, allow us traditional modellers to get access to engines like Consolidations and even mallets. MTH gave that option to people which Lionel overlooked. Sure Lionel bought the H class Pennsy 2-8-0 tooling, and perhaps even their geeps, but did they buy anything else? Also, who can afford a “universal remote”? LionChief and LionChief Plus at least gave remotes with their engines (unlike recently with their new 2-8-0 and FT offerings).
They did release a “The Texan” passenger set with two add on cars, so there is that. But more road names would be great, including Canadian (as I am Canadian) and even Mexican ones (as a lot of American and Canadian engines and rolling stock found second lives down South of the borders, like the Alco PA’s.).
I also forgot. Lionel has brought back many of their old toolings (like the Berkshire) so why not bring back many of their classic sets with LionChief electronics? These sets were fun, colourful, had 1-2 action cars (sometimes more!) and had lots of track.
Finally, unpainted models. Lionel had made an undecorated LionChief 0-8-0 #99 as part of a cancelled ‘Personalization Set’ with fine tooling and everything. These undecorated 0-8-0 locos would allow anyone to customize their engines to represent their favourite road or company. So why not offer these alongside their painted counterparts. It would be a shame to have to strip a Santa Fe Warbonnet diesel of its colours just so someone can get the roadname that they like and want.
You miss the whole Lionel market segment. Lionel targets high dollar collectors with china sourced products for the greatest profit margin. They are not interested in low profit margins associated with sets for children. Long term goals and longevity are traits of the past. Cheap throw away high profit vs minimum investment is the way of life today. IMHO the toy train market ship has sailed as have many other things when referring to youth of today.
Lionel should look at the "Loss leader" technique of giving great deals, even at a loss with their starter sets. Then, more people get into the hobby and buy the expensive stuff later, and that's where the profit lies. Toy trains are still of interest to youth, they just need to be as competitive as they used to.
Why would Lionel give you what it knows it can sell you!