Lionel are just riding on their legacy of having built decent quality models several decades ago, and rich old people having nostalgia for those old Lionel trainsets they got as kids.
As a longtime buyer of O Scale Lionel, the O and HO stuff are worlds apart. Lionel does fantastic O Scale models and sets. That is their bread and butter
The hopper cars (chessie system and reindeer cars) are not old model power moldings from the 1980s (Model power might have used the castings, I don’t know), they’re Marx moldings from the 1950s you can tell because of the small bar on each coupler, that’s to stop the tucks from turning too much and getting rotated the wrong way. Also the trucks themselves are another indicator because instead of being screwed onto the car they clip into place like a C clip Marx is the only manufacturer that I have come across to use that method although Marx used brass pins riveted to the chassis of the car instead of plastic ones as seen on the Lionel ones. If you look up pictures of the Marx hoppers they look suspiciously similar. So basically when you buy one of these hopper cars you are buying a less quality version of a nearly 70 year old casting!!! Edit: after a little more research the boxcar and the tank car are Marx castings too!!! The caboose doesn’t seem to have been from Marx which is ironic because one caboose Marx made is way better than this with separately fitted parts and some of those parts being metal!!
Maybe if they were to ACTUALLY TRY, instead of selling sets with rebadged Polar Express's and making 20 year old rolling stock, they could incorporate their legacy locomotives into HO scale.
@peterflores8720 agreed, In the early 2000s, lionel released an ho challenger and veranda turbine, and those appear to be legitimate highly detailed HO scale models. They are fully capable of doing somewhat of the sort
@@davidstrainsandlego I just looked those up. They look amazing. That is exactly what Lionel should be doing right now. Bachmann just released a new Hudson model and it looks great. Imagine if lionel made that for Ho scale. It would be huge. But no, they just sit on the sideline because that's what lionel does.
Lionel's biggest problem as of the last 10 years and going forward is how they handle their Starter Train Sets with the same designs just being that Russian 0-8-0 Switcher or the Polar Express just being recolored and saying its "NEW" like that cheap cash grab New York Yankee baseball set 🤮 There are sooo many different steam locomotives they can model and put in their sets but they for some weird reason choose the Polar Express Berkshire! 🤧 If you look at their newest 2023 HO Catalog you can see how lazy they are just recoloring and added the Berkshire locomotive in every set with no other steam locos in sight 🥱 Personally I would LOVE to see a NYC 4-6-4 Hudson or a 4-8-4 Northern locomotive in their sets. Buttt no... we just get another Berkshire with a recolor and different road number 😒
Lionel used have some Modern Era 4-6-4 Hudson sets. MTH produced some Passenger Sets with 4-8-4’s sets one was the Daylight 4449 GS-4 Set while the other was the N&W 611 J Class Set called Bantam 4-8-4 because they were Semi Scale Railking Starter Sets ! The Postwar Era had Hudson’s and the 746 N&W 4-8-4’s of course, while American Flyer had its S Gauge 4-8-4 Northern’s as well !
@@stevenplyler6306 Your missing the point here... we're all aware of old school Lionel trains ets but nothing modern is quite to that standard and is just reused models and little variety to it
Surely they should go above the Bachmann dance hall as they scored 5.69 as opposed to 5.34 for the dance hall ? They are only 0.12 behind the Hornby Gresley Suburbans ! 🤣
This is sad. At one time Lionel was known for Quality and mostly made O gauge trains and HO which later got phased out. Stuff ran correct straight out of the box. The line sold and changed hands twice and the stuff once made in the U.S. got out sourced to China and things have been down hill every since. I bought one Lionel HO Christmas flat car with two containers at the beginning of the year as it was on sale at Trainworld. Haven't really checked out the car much and was waiting for Christmas time this year to put it on the layout. I'm pretty much guessing the car I have will match those displayed in this video and will take some reworking of the trucks & couplers to get correct so it operates correctly. I would of thought the cheap toy trains of the past were gone replaced by better something better. Even the lower quality cars made by Bachmann tops this horrendously made Lionel stuff.
Said it before,in the states we DO NOT LOOK AT LIONEL for standards. It sucks we don't really have a good manufacturer. Bachmann is okay over here but I only buy bachmann UK. Sam is amazing and I laughed out loud when I watched this.
We do. Broadway limited, Athearn, Atlas, Bachman, Kato, and walther all make very great models. Actually American models are better in some expats than in Britain models.
What is missing is that Lionel is was always considered a toy. Their O gauge trains from the 1940’s up to 1969 ( post WWII era)were constructed very very durable. And many today perform as they were intended. Scale wasn’t their best intention. But the variety of rolling stock and playability was pretty good. The early HO models were good for the period they were manufactured. The wheelsetsts or trucks were sprung. Great detail. Doors opened etc. I believe that Athearn produced a good amount of the rolling stock. The product you tested kind of leads back to to O gauge not being to detailed or scale. So not what is expected in today’s HO or OO standards. A touch of KD or microtrains grease um ( graphite powder ) will help the couplers. Change the wheels and those will roll nicely!
as somebody who fond of kit bashing, there is a value for cheap models you can strip for parts or freely apply custom work to without messing up a far more expensive model.
Lionel is well known for their Diecast HO Models (Challenger and GTEL Turbine). The rest of their HO scale lineup is totally worthless. I say this because I own a Lionel HO Challenger and it’s worth it’s weight in gold as the entire model is Diecast and runs smooth as silk. I have yet to pick up the GTEL, maybe that will be my next Ho roster addition.
Since 1995 colors and color combinations can be trademarked as part of a product or service so long as they, like any other trademark: Serve a source identification function; and Do not serve a purely decorative or utilitarian purpose. A few other examples of protected marks include: Red knobs on cooking appliances (Wolf); Brown for parcel delivery trucks and uniforms (UPS); Magenta for telecommunications services (T-Mobile); and Orange for scissor handles (Fiskars). I had heard of someone copyrighting a shade of black, some know else could use.
Lionel: founded 1900, with them using that shade of orange and blue since at least 1910. Hot Wheels: founded 1968 The very concept of time itself: Am I a joke to you?
These are old molds from another manufacturer, something like Life Like or Model Power I can't remember. 😅 Honestly their history is not worth my brain cells haha.
Life-like actually would have been better but Walther's bought them and the model power line of rolling stock was the old Mantua/Tyco line. Also both of those lines were better than this garbage.
@@danielbackley9301 the hopper and boxcar are definitely old Marx castings from the 1960s, with the molded in brake wheel. The tank car and caboose are Model Power offerings; but not from the old Marx or Mantua/Tyco line. I am not sure their origins, except maybe Model Power's own tooling.
@@gamerfan8445 so did I my first set in 1970 was like like cannonball freight f-7 a b &7 cars. They were the old Barney based units with a metal frame and ran well. Their steamers were pretty good as well especially the pacific and the PRR ten wheeler.
I have the tanker and surprisingly haven’t had any real issues with the tanker (no wobbling not too free riling but clear that up with lubricants so it is much better). Though I won’t be getting anything else Lionel unless it is vintage.
At least they are all consistent in their quality, bad and very bad, but at a tenner each, compared to stock costing as much as a loco now, change the wheels, free up the couplings and weather them, a very cheap train for Xmas...and forgotten by Xmas dinner time...lol
i really need your help sam, i just bought a model train (bachmann) and i just put it on my track, the train lit up but wont move, at full power the train stutters and slightly moves. any fix or is my train toast?
I thought this review started out to be a little over critical until I seen the rest of the video. I've seen mismatch coupler heights along with the poor truck performance which would be deal breakers in my opinion. The body quality could get a pass for the price, but they need to roll and couple well. Overall, the quality issues leave me unimpressed with these models. It would take some work to make them decent runners. New wheels or trucks would be needed to make it more free rolling. Along with checking the coupler heights which may need shimming or even replacement of the couplers.
Wow! I wasn't expecting another upload, but it's a good thing! I don't like Lionel either, for example, their really bad looking O scale starter set diesels go for like 200 dollars. Not to mention some of their other locomotives go for 1799 DOLLARS! How crazy is that!? They do seem quite detailed, but I would never buy any model trains over 300 or so dollars. (keep in mind, Canadian dollars, so it's more expensive over here.) Anyway, thanks for another great video! 😄
Lionel has forgotten the “entry” level buyer. Check out the “beginner” sets that all use the same “steam locomotive”. Lionel has “fallen” into the, pretty much, adult collector market. Just like the rest of the hobby, “get it now, or never have the chance later”.
Interesting review Sam. If you want to do a review of really terrible rolling stock, have a look at Dapol's 6-wheel milk tankers. I bought 5 of them brand new a month ago from the latest releases at Rails. Three of them have unbelievably wobbly wheels so bad that they derail continuously and look silly wobbling down the track. None of them are free rolling. Removing the centre axle makes no difference. At 15 GPB each, I think it's woeful. Won't be getting any more Dapols that's for sure.
I have the box car and caboose and the caboose is great but the box car is unusable. The couplings on the cars are different heights from each other. On the same brand of car.
These cars aren’t worth the upgrades required to make them decent performers, new trucks , couplers etc are more than the cars. The problem with the couplers is the pocket is too tight for the coupler design, these appear to be a knockoff of the Kadee #5 with the phosphor bronze centering spring. The coupler on the caboose is too low and doesn’t line up properly, I’m surprised it stayed coupled at all. The wheels are absolutely terrible there appears to be no quality control at all on these. I guess for a release of some very old models, I guess they aren’t too bad. Let the kids play with them. Even Bachmann has tried to improve their products over the years, manufactures like Bachmann have started producing most of their products with knuckle couplers and thesecare body mounted. Lionel should get out of the HO market before they ruin their reputation, or try to produce a good high quality product.
It's a shame your only foray into Lionel is crappy HO stuff. I do believe if you reviewed one of their O gauge steamers, you'd be amazed. They are, however, into the thousands of dollars though.
Back in the day, Lionel made great HO trains, they only make beautiful and great performing o scale, the HO they make today is absolutely garbage, do not recommend.
Lionel have really dropped the ball with their big come back to ho. Their legacy and vision line o gauge 3 rail stuff is surprisingly amazing. You should watch some videos on it. If only they put that same effort into ho…
Lionel is also being sued over their HO scale offerings by the successors of Model Power because, shockingly, Lionel isn’t making any money on the Ho scale line. What is funny is Lionel is the Hornby of America (except in O Scale). Been around for forever, very recognizable brand, and over priced products. I do stuff with Lionel’s O Scale stuff on my channel.
Yeah, what a shame. My great grandfather bought me an O scale Lionel train set when I was very young. Had thousands of hours playing with it too. Unfortunate that their HO stuff isn't nearly as good.
Lionel's HO offering is truly a race to the bottom. That being said given the quality of their coupler set ups they do make it mildly realistic in that on real railroad equipment in the US sometimes you do need to give a knuckle a good shove with your boot to get it aligned, task failed successfully?
When I was modelling US HO the rolling stock was just basic. You then spent money replacing axles, updating detail and generally reworking the things from the Walthers catalogue of parts. As long as the basic paint finish was ok you ended up with great items at pretty good prices. Out of the box they were a basis for modification. Once completed they were still cheapish but with a LOT of metal details and decent weight and running.
I “WAS” considering some of this rolling stock but decided to invest in higher quality rolling stock, thank you for saving me the trouble and headache 👍
Definitely Model Power/Marx tooling. Just like those passenger cars. Also they went from China to North Carolina to Long Island and then the UK. Of course the wheels come off.
And this is why people should go with bachman or someone else for HO scale trains. The performance of the rolling stock could easily be improved with straight metal axles and properly sprung couplings.
I'd sideline most Bachmann US H0 too TBH, some of the locos are OKish...but there is better stuff from Walthers/Athearn/Atlas for the same price or less. Different story with Bachmanns ON30, that stuff is pretty decent.
@@Simon-Davis ive heard their n scale stuff is pretty good. Especially their starter sets. No plastic wheels, nickel silver track standard in all n scale sets from bachmann.
In Deference to the models these dies harken back to the 50s trainsetsfrom the American manufacturer Marx and are virtually unchanged save the modern couplers
I had mostly Lionel O scale as a kid (back in the '60s) and some Lionel HO stuff. I hated the HO stuff because it kept derailing all the time. I liked the O stuff better because stayed on the track a lot better. I always thought that was because the HO stuff was so much smaller, the wheels were too tiny to stay on the track very well. But the O stuff was a lot more expensive, I always thought that was because the O stuff was made of twice as much material. Now I wonder if it was because the Lionel O stuff was actually better quality.
Amusing, lol. Can't complain for the tenners really, but why would such a renowned American brand in 3-rail O gauge even venture this super low price point for H0.. A tad baffling tbh. Why would they risk their iconic name 🙅 Quite odd actually. Cheerio.
Well, it might have something to do with Lionel being owned by an investment group at present. Being buisness types, they expect their holding to make money for the shareholders at all costs, so they're taking shortcuts instead of re-investing the profits back into the company. Why pay for new toolings for the O gauge sets when you just keep reusing them and just slapping pop-culture paint jobs on them? Buy up some old toolings from Model Power, slap some electronics in 'em and the Lionel badge on the box and presto, new revenue stream for minimal expenditure!
@@Shipwright1918 I see. Well that's explains. Being owned by an investment group... Like Hornby but then the American way. Funny enough, also Märklin is owned by investors but they greatly maintain heavy investment in actual operations and business. I guess it's the German way versus the Anglo-Saxon variety shall we say... Such a pity for Lionel and their customers...
I would say it's more a case of business practices and caring for the company and what it makes than ethnic background. Ultimately it's nothing new for Lionel, which has been changing owners every few years since the original Lionel Corporation (now defunct) spun the train line and the rights to use the name to General Mills, the cereal people. The high point was when it was bought by Ruchard Kughn, his hand-picked management team brought Lionel to new heights making amazing trains. Helped that he collected Lionel trains with a passion and was enthusiastic about the company at large. After he sold out, it's not been the same since.
@@Shipwright1918 Of course but general business practices are correlated to socioeconomic modelling. I had no ethnics in mind. The socioeconomic structure for the US and UK (therefore general business practices) is based on a local mindset of business culture (strongly towards shareholder value), whereas the German way is called the Rhineland model... Of course it all depends on intentions and backgrounds of owners and shareholders of an enterprise, but generally speaking, especially when it comes to investment companies, the business modelling in the Anglo-Saxon world differs greatly from the Rhineland framework. But of course, it will ultimately depend on the owners and shareholders. Sad to see that Lionel have been tossed around so many times...
Honestly I'm surprised all the Lionel trains you've tried have had poor quality and performance. Lionel is a pretty large and iconic brand here in the US, but granted they're mostly known for their older 3 rail O gauge and Standard gauge trains.
Maybe what you should do is bring them up to descent condition and tell us how much it might cost. It would involve two new bogies, a knuckle connector and maybe some weathering. Can the enclosed wagons be opened and details added there too, ps the caboose is around the wrong way.
I have a PS-1 boxcar from the same molding as your Union Pacific example. It came from an early 1960's Marx trainset. Of course back then it had horn-hook couplers and plastic wheel sets.
judging by the caboose and the boxcar, these do seem like thay are just slightly updated model power models from 20 years ago if not even older The only difference being they have metal wheels and knuckly couplers.
What’s the point of this? You paid stuff all for them what do you expect? Don’t forget ,I’m sure there are plenty of young children hoping to get in to the hobby that would love these. What will they think when they see you shoot them down?
They’ll know to spend their money on something decent, that’s what they’ll do. You can’t give these to young children anyway because of the small parts - says that right on the box!
Listen the “budget” RTR models on average uses tooling from the 1960s-1980s with new paint slapped on it for $50. It’s nothing new but people buy it as long as it had knuckle couplers and metal wheels. The state of American model railroading is a dumpster fire.
I don't like Lionel one bit, but I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. If these were never on sale I could understand the harshness, but I have a handful and never paid more than $10 for each. At that price, I really don't expect much more. While most other cheap rolling stock is hovering in the $25+ mark, these offer something that anyone could afford.
I own rolling stock similar to this from lifelike in starter sets and they perform the same. Unfortunately American starter set rolling stock is designed to be cheap and poor performing to incentivise people to buy the more expensive better quality better performing rolling stock that are double the cost
Ideal companions for Hornby's Steam punk stuff , along with the Lowmac Coca-cola and Victorian goods wagons. The packaging looked quite suitable for reuse on the plus side.!!
Feed them to the Evil Scrapman if they’re not that good. He needs his scrap sausages. The tankers especially look like sausages, the red box car looks like a steak and the yellow box car looks like a stick of butter. Delicious.
These models date from the 1970s from a company called Mantua. They're pretty much the same stuff you'll find in the cheap, used train section. They were later produced by Model Power and Lionel acquired the tooling cheaply after Model Power went bust around 2017. HO scale has never been Lionel's main focus, so they hardly ever gave much attention to HO. They mainly produced $1,000+ O scale trains which are some of the finest you can buy. 3:19 I believe the color combination is trademarked, similar to John Deere's green and yellow on their tractors. You're better off buying old Athearn blue box or Bachmann's warehouse finds rolling stock than Lionel's current HO rolling stock
Wibbly wobbly wonders one and all 🤣 Lionel Ho gauge leaves a lot to be desired they are just trading on their old 3 rail reputation and looking at those models they really shouldn’t bother. I have a lot of american Locos and getting decent rolling stock at reasonable prices isn’t easy thank God for eBay. 😁👍😁 ( Can anyone recommend a good brand for a set of Union Pacific coaches)?
I love Lionel, but their modern stuff never really interests me with some exceptions. And their current HO brand confuses me. Their early HO stuff as well as the trains and sets that made during the Prewar, Postwar, MPC, and LTI eras were so much more interesting to me.
The 'Happy Hooves' wagon is going to the glue factory, full of animal hooves and other horrid bits, to be rendered down for glue. Satan's Reindeer are in there somewhere.
Egads! The equipment is very, very 1950’s cheap. They are so crudely designed and built. But, with some work they could be turned into something useful.
Can confirm: I once had a caboose identical to this one (aside from the livery) and it was under the Model Power brand. And yes, it was dreadful; poorly balanced, derailed constantly. That said, I do believe there could be a market for simple, basic, cheap, low detail train sets; not these, obviously, but something of a similar mindset that's slightly better made. The biggest problem with model railroading right now is the prohibitive barrier to entry price; it's just too expensive for young folks to want to take the first dive or buy a starter train set to get their kids hooked. And even when they do more often than not all you get is a loco and maybe 3-4 wagons and an oval of track, hardly hair-raising stuff. But if you could have a range that's cheap to mass produce to keep cost down but still looks halfway decent to the casual eye and can offer a fun and engaging experience for less than $300, that could be the hook needed to get youngsters and newbies interested before leading them on to the harder stuff. Like starting on beer before learning about whiskey.
No wonder these supposedly modern wagons suck. They are Ancient model power toolings from the 70’s! I have some of these cars just in different livery’s. Also the trucks and coupling box design are the exact same from the 70’s too!
For a few dollars more, you can get a Walthers Trainline rolling stock that is more detailed in terms of molding, crispier decals, metal wheels, more separately applied parts, and better performance. Walthers Trainline is so much better for your money if you were to compare the Lionel HO of the same caliber.
hahaha! Well at least these are cheap, unlike some of Hornby's! Still waiting for my Manor annoyingly - should be around soon! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Yeah, uhh, pretty much every other American manufacturer makes better HO stuff. Lionel are the kings of O gauge, but there's a reason why they're known for such.
One thing noticeable on some of the cars is the date of manufacture of the original cars, Early 1980's also the details are of this era with top mounted walkways and multiple ladders (UP car and caboose), But even toys should couple and run together. Do not junk them. You have the basis of a train wreck, junk yard, or a car body used for a none railway purpose. Just like past UK rail stock (a lot of chickens lived in box vans.) Will need to kill the colours though.
Not exactly Accurascale Siphon Gs, are they? That lot, except the UP van which *was* worth a tenner, need a Happy Hoofing. BTW, the colours RED, GREEN and BLACK are registered trademarks of Valleys 56xx inc. and anything whatsoever, model trains or otherwise, in these colours owe me 5% royalties. Nice turntable.
Lionel are just riding on their legacy of having built decent quality models several decades ago, and rich old people having nostalgia for those old Lionel trainsets they got as kids.
Which is why I only buy old Lionel. As for Lionel HO, these are recent releases, I guess. I have not seen Lionel HO in years.
Lionel makes great high quality models, but most can't afford over 500$ for an engine let alone 1500
Rich old people, Yea, I'll second that one.
As a longtime buyer of O Scale Lionel, the O and HO stuff are worlds apart. Lionel does fantastic O Scale models and sets. That is their bread and butter
The hopper cars (chessie system and reindeer cars) are not old model power moldings from the 1980s (Model power might have used the castings, I don’t know), they’re Marx moldings from the 1950s you can tell because of the small bar on each coupler, that’s to stop the tucks from turning too much and getting rotated the wrong way. Also the trucks themselves are another indicator because instead of being screwed onto the car they clip into place like a C clip Marx is the only manufacturer that I have come across to use that method although Marx used brass pins riveted to the chassis of the car instead of plastic ones as seen on the Lionel ones. If you look up pictures of the Marx hoppers they look suspiciously similar. So basically when you buy one of these hopper cars you are buying a less quality version of a nearly 70 year old casting!!!
Edit: after a little more research the boxcar and the tank car are Marx castings too!!! The caboose doesn’t seem to have been from Marx which is ironic because one caboose Marx made is way better than this with separately fitted parts and some of those parts being metal!!
The hoppers are 1947 Varney design which was sold to mantua in 1951
Blimey. No wonder my old Traing USA stuff looks & runs better....
That’s even worse!
I dont think lionel should even bother with the HO stuff. They've tried many times, to varying degrees of success
Maybe if they were to ACTUALLY TRY, instead of selling sets with rebadged Polar Express's and making 20 year old rolling stock, they could incorporate their legacy locomotives into HO scale.
@peterflores8720 agreed, In the early 2000s, lionel released an ho challenger and veranda turbine, and those appear to be legitimate highly detailed HO scale models. They are fully capable of doing somewhat of the sort
@@davidstrainsandlego I just looked those up. They look amazing. That is exactly what Lionel should be doing right now. Bachmann just released a new Hudson model and it looks great. Imagine if lionel made that for Ho scale. It would be huge. But no, they just sit on the sideline because that's what lionel does.
@@trainfan998 Lionel's whole reputation is based on making a fine model of a Hudson back in the late 1930s.
@@johnblair8146 yeah I forgot to mention that in my comment, but it further proves my point.
Lionel intends these models for ages 14 and up because ages 13 and below can’t handle this level of disappointment.
Lionel really should stick to O gauge stuff Sam. They make some great model.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Indeed
Lionel's biggest problem as of the last 10 years and going forward is how they handle their Starter Train Sets with the same designs just being that Russian 0-8-0 Switcher or the Polar Express just being recolored and saying its "NEW" like that cheap cash grab New York Yankee baseball set 🤮
There are sooo many different steam locomotives they can model and put in their sets but they for some weird reason choose the Polar Express Berkshire! 🤧
If you look at their newest 2023 HO Catalog you can see how lazy they are just recoloring and added the Berkshire locomotive in every set with no other steam locos in sight 🥱
Personally I would LOVE to see a NYC 4-6-4 Hudson or a 4-8-4 Northern locomotive in their sets. Buttt no... we just get another Berkshire with a recolor and different road number 😒
If you want a Hudson, and Niagara. Well you are in luck. Bachman made both of them.
@@gamerfan8445 I know this but looking at O gauge train sets they reuse the same concepts with no variations
Lionel used have some Modern Era 4-6-4 Hudson sets.
MTH produced some Passenger Sets with 4-8-4’s sets one was the Daylight 4449 GS-4 Set while the other was the N&W 611 J Class Set called Bantam 4-8-4 because they were Semi Scale Railking Starter Sets !
The Postwar Era had Hudson’s and the 746 N&W 4-8-4’s of course, while American Flyer had its S Gauge 4-8-4 Northern’s as well !
And don’t forget the Scale Hudson 700E Prewar Locomotives and Sets of Semi Scale cars to accompany them as well !
@@stevenplyler6306 Your missing the point here... we're all aware of old school Lionel trains ets but nothing modern is quite to that standard and is just reused models and little variety to it
Surely they should go above the Bachmann dance hall as they scored 5.69 as opposed to 5.34 for the dance hall ? They are only 0.12 behind the Hornby Gresley Suburbans ! 🤣
I think old age is creeping up to Sam - he's going a bit grey already - maybe Hornby's pricing vs Lionel's detail is driving him up the wall?! 🙃
This is sad. At one time Lionel was known for Quality and mostly made O gauge trains and HO which later got phased out. Stuff ran correct straight out of the box. The line sold and changed hands twice and the stuff once made in the U.S. got out sourced to China and things have been down hill every since. I bought one Lionel HO Christmas flat car with two containers at the beginning of the year as it was on sale at Trainworld. Haven't really checked out the car much and was waiting for Christmas time this year to put it on the layout. I'm pretty much guessing the car I have will match those displayed in this video and will take some reworking of the trucks & couplers to get correct so it operates correctly. I would of thought the cheap toy trains of the past were gone replaced by better something better. Even the lower quality cars made by Bachmann tops this horrendously made Lionel stuff.
I have those Happy Hooves covered hoppers. It works fine. I just ordered a few more Christmas themed cars made by Lionel. For 11 bucks I’m happy.
He doesn’t understand Lionel because he’s a Europe trash bag 💀
@@57chevybellair01The Paul Revere and Neil Armstrong in me wants to agree with you about this comment here !
My old Triang "USA railroad" stuff looks & runs better than this lot!
Said it before,in the states we DO NOT LOOK AT LIONEL for standards. It sucks we don't really have a good manufacturer. Bachmann is okay over here but I only buy bachmann UK. Sam is amazing and I laughed out loud when I watched this.
We do. Broadway limited, Athearn, Atlas, Bachman, Kato, and walther all make very great models. Actually American models are better in some expats than in Britain models.
If you're looking for good US rolling stock, take a look at Inter-Mountain or Scale Trains, in my experience they have excellent stuff.
Scaletrains has entered the chat
@@gamerfan8445 Kato is Japanese and Bachmann used to be American but now is owned by Kader out of Hong Kong.
@@OriginalBongoliath but the Bachman and Kato both sell north American models.
I would be interested to see if the wagons could be improved by placing metal wheels and better couplings.
Perfectly good for conversions and weathering practise at that price.
What is missing is that Lionel is was always considered a toy. Their O gauge trains from the 1940’s up to 1969 ( post WWII era)were constructed very very durable. And many today perform as they were intended. Scale wasn’t their best intention. But the variety of rolling stock and playability was pretty good.
The early HO models were good for the period they were manufactured. The wheelsetsts or trucks were sprung. Great detail. Doors opened etc. I believe that Athearn produced a good amount of the rolling stock. The product you tested kind of leads back to to O gauge not being to detailed or scale. So not what is expected in today’s HO or OO standards.
A touch of KD or microtrains grease um ( graphite powder ) will help the couplers. Change the wheels and those will roll nicely!
as somebody who fond of kit bashing, there is a value for cheap models you can strip for parts or freely apply custom work to without messing up a far more expensive model.
Lionel is well known for their Diecast HO Models (Challenger and GTEL Turbine). The rest of their HO scale lineup is totally worthless. I say this because I own a Lionel HO Challenger and it’s worth it’s weight in gold as the entire model is Diecast and runs smooth as silk. I have yet to pick up the GTEL, maybe that will be my next Ho roster addition.
as lionel fan... i'm hurt..
Ahhh my friend Sam just doesn’t understand: “ The most fun filled name in Model Railroading ! “ : like we Lionel people do !
Since 1995 colors and color combinations can be trademarked as part of a product or service so long as they, like any other trademark:
Serve a source identification function; and
Do not serve a purely decorative or utilitarian purpose.
A few other examples of protected marks include:
Red knobs on cooking appliances (Wolf);
Brown for parcel delivery trucks and uniforms (UPS);
Magenta for telecommunications services (T-Mobile); and
Orange for scissor handles (Fiskars).
I had heard of someone copyrighting a shade of black, some know else could use.
Yes that's correct - I assume they meant that combination of colours, but that's not what their box said ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Try American Flyer HO, they rock amazing
Lionel: Orange and blue are a registered trademark of us.
Hotwheels: *Am I a joke to you*
Lionel: founded 1900, with them using that shade of orange and blue since at least 1910.
Hot Wheels: founded 1968
The very concept of time itself: Am I a joke to you?
The reason they suck at rolling is the horrible bogie design. Why does the bogies have to split apart in many pieces to hold the wheels lol.
These are old molds from another manufacturer, something like Life Like or Model Power I can't remember. 😅
Honestly their history is not worth my brain cells haha.
They aren’t bad cars. I own two of the grain hoppers and they are okay. It just Lionel messed them up.
Life-like actually would have been better but Walther's bought them and the model power line of rolling stock was the old Mantua/Tyco line. Also both of those lines were better than this garbage.
@@danielbackley9301 actually I quite enjoyed life like models. Cheap, powerful, and fast models for their day.
@@danielbackley9301 the hopper and boxcar are definitely old Marx castings from the 1960s, with the molded in brake wheel.
The tank car and caboose are Model Power offerings; but not from the old Marx or Mantua/Tyco line. I am not sure their origins, except maybe Model Power's own tooling.
@@gamerfan8445 so did I my first set in 1970 was like like cannonball freight f-7 a b &7 cars. They were the old Barney based units with a metal frame and ran well. Their steamers were pretty good as well especially the pacific and the PRR ten wheeler.
I have the tanker and surprisingly haven’t had any real issues with the tanker (no wobbling not too free riling but clear that up with lubricants so it is much better). Though I won’t be getting anything else Lionel unless it is vintage.
At least they are all consistent in their quality, bad and very bad, but at a tenner each, compared to stock costing as much as a loco now, change the wheels, free up the couplings and weather them, a very cheap train for Xmas...and forgotten by Xmas dinner time...lol
After 8 years of living in the Charlotte area, I never realized Lionel was headquartered in Concord.
Louis Marx is spinning in his grave seeing the new cheapened iterations of his HO rolling stock
when you compare those oxford rail pilchard wagons which are approx the same rrp it makes Lionel stuff seem so much more appalling!
i really need your help sam, i just bought a model train (bachmann) and i just put it on my track, the train lit up but wont move, at full power the train stutters and slightly moves. any fix or is my train toast?
I thought this review started out to be a little over critical until I seen the rest of the video. I've seen mismatch coupler heights along with the poor truck performance which would be deal breakers in my opinion. The body quality could get a pass for the price, but they need to roll and couple well. Overall, the quality issues leave me unimpressed with these models. It would take some work to make them decent runners. New wheels or trucks would be needed to make it more free rolling. Along with checking the coupler heights which may need shimming or even replacement of the couplers.
i wonder if these would be ok if you just swapped out the bogies.
Wow! I wasn't expecting another upload, but it's a good thing! I don't like Lionel either, for example, their really bad looking O scale starter set diesels go for like 200 dollars. Not to mention some of their other locomotives go for 1799 DOLLARS! How crazy is that!? They do seem quite detailed, but I would never buy any model trains over 300 or so dollars. (keep in mind, Canadian dollars, so it's more expensive over here.) Anyway, thanks for another great video! 😄
Lionel has forgotten the “entry” level buyer. Check out the “beginner” sets that all use the same “steam locomotive”. Lionel has “fallen” into the, pretty much, adult collector market. Just like the rest of the hobby, “get it now, or never have the chance later”.
Interesting review Sam.
If you want to do a review of really terrible rolling stock, have a look at Dapol's 6-wheel milk tankers. I bought 5 of them brand new a month ago from the latest releases at Rails. Three of them have unbelievably wobbly wheels so bad that they derail continuously and look silly wobbling down the track. None of them are free rolling. Removing the centre axle makes no difference. At 15 GPB each, I think it's woeful. Won't be getting any more Dapols that's for sure.
I can't be the only one wanting to know more about Lionel trademarking the colours orange and blue.
I have the box car and caboose and the caboose is great but the box car is unusable. The couplings on the cars are different heights from each other. On the same brand of car.
EricsTrains would be mad right now, LoL :))
Lionel would sue Belgrade City transport for keeping older generation orange and blue trolleybuses.
How about adding detail, including interior, to the caboose and giving it a paint to try and turn it into a half decent model? Video it, obviously.
Lionel should be at #6 above Bachmann Dancehall. Why did you put it at #7?
The lionel challenger would definitely change your view's on the brand... It's something else honestly.
These cars aren’t worth the upgrades required to make them decent performers, new trucks , couplers etc are more than the cars. The problem with the couplers is the pocket is too tight for the coupler design, these appear to be a knockoff of the Kadee #5 with the phosphor bronze centering spring. The coupler on the caboose is too low and doesn’t line up properly, I’m surprised it stayed coupled at all. The wheels are absolutely terrible there appears to be no quality control at all on these. I guess for a release of some very old models, I guess they aren’t too bad. Let the kids play with them. Even Bachmann has tried to improve their products over the years, manufactures like Bachmann have started producing most of their products with knuckle couplers and thesecare body mounted. Lionel should get out of the HO market before they ruin their reputation, or try to produce a good high quality product.
Please review a Lionel O Gauge loco please! They are WAY BETTER than there HO scale stuff!!!
USATC means United States Army Transportation Corps yet that does not look like one though.
It's a shame your only foray into Lionel is crappy HO stuff.
I do believe if you reviewed one of their O gauge steamers, you'd be amazed. They are, however, into the thousands of dollars though.
Give them to the Lionel Berkshire
Well, it ain’t no cola bottle wagon
It's a shame because the actual Berkshire is a really nice loco
Lionel should just stick to O scale...
Damn you are generous with your ratings😂
your challenge, should you be interested enough: take one of those "wagons", and with your 3d print skillz, do better than a global corporation
I love rolling stock with metal wheels. They roll way better than plastic wheels
Nice job sam
These are pretty bad, spot on! Glad that Lionel no longer makes HO stuff, their quality is abysmal.
Back in the day, Lionel made great HO trains, they only make beautiful and great performing o scale, the HO they make today is absolutely garbage, do not recommend.
prefer these over the giant coca cola bottle wagon
True Lionel is 3 rail. That's a farce
You should really consider Inter-Mountain or Scale Trains rolling stock
Lionel have really dropped the ball with their big come back to ho. Their legacy and vision line o gauge 3 rail stuff is surprisingly amazing. You should watch some videos on it. If only they put that same effort into ho…
Lionel is also being sued over their HO scale offerings by the successors of Model Power because, shockingly, Lionel isn’t making any money on the Ho scale line.
What is funny is Lionel is the Hornby of America (except in O Scale). Been around for forever, very recognizable brand, and over priced products. I do stuff with Lionel’s O Scale stuff on my channel.
I know that fact. Thanks
I didn’t k ow they were being sued. I just want to get the last Pol Ex car needed for the HO set and they can be gone.
Nah even in O scale they suck
@@Trainmaster909 not really.
@@gamerfan8445 nah if you knew model trains you would know even their Legacy products arent good.
Yeah, what a shame. My great grandfather bought me an O scale Lionel train set when I was very young. Had thousands of hours playing with it too. Unfortunate that their HO stuff isn't nearly as good.
Lionel's HO offering is truly a race to the bottom. That being said given the quality of their coupler set ups they do make it mildly realistic in that on real railroad equipment in the US sometimes you do need to give a knuckle a good shove with your boot to get it aligned, task failed successfully?
Even in the 1960s and ‘70s brake wheels molded into the body were a sign of a low end model.
Probably because these model designs date back to the 1950s with Marx
When I was modelling US HO the rolling stock was just basic. You then spent money replacing axles, updating detail and generally reworking the things from the Walthers catalogue of parts. As long as the basic paint finish was ok you ended up with great items at pretty good prices.
Out of the box they were a basis for modification. Once completed they were still cheapish but with a LOT of metal details and decent weight and running.
I “WAS” considering some of this rolling stock but decided to invest in higher quality rolling stock, thank you for saving me the trouble and headache 👍
Definitely Model Power/Marx tooling. Just like those passenger cars. Also they went from China to North Carolina to Long Island and then the UK. Of course the wheels come off.
And this is why people should go with bachman or someone else for HO scale trains.
The performance of the rolling stock could easily be improved with straight metal axles and properly sprung couplings.
I'd sideline most Bachmann US H0 too TBH, some of the locos are OKish...but there is better stuff from Walthers/Athearn/Atlas for the same price or less. Different story with Bachmanns ON30, that stuff is pretty decent.
@@Simon-Davis ive heard their n scale stuff is pretty good. Especially their starter sets. No plastic wheels, nickel silver track standard in all n scale sets from bachmann.
In Deference to the models these dies harken back to the 50s trainsetsfrom the American manufacturer Marx and are virtually unchanged save the modern couplers
I had mostly Lionel O scale as a kid (back in the '60s) and some Lionel HO stuff. I hated the HO stuff because it kept derailing all the time. I liked the O stuff better because stayed on the track a lot better. I always thought that was because the HO stuff was so much smaller, the wheels were too tiny to stay on the track very well. But the O stuff was a lot more expensive, I always thought that was because the O stuff was made of twice as much material. Now I wonder if it was because the Lionel O stuff was actually better quality.
Also the o scale of that era also had oversized Flanges Which helped them stay on the track even better rivarossi Did the same ho scale.
He should show the "made in _______". label. Quality went overseas.
Amusing, lol. Can't complain for the tenners really, but why would such a renowned American brand in 3-rail O gauge even venture this super low price point for H0.. A tad baffling tbh. Why would they risk their iconic name 🙅 Quite odd actually. Cheerio.
Well, it might have something to do with Lionel being owned by an investment group at present. Being buisness types, they expect their holding to make money for the shareholders at all costs, so they're taking shortcuts instead of re-investing the profits back into the company.
Why pay for new toolings for the O gauge sets when you just keep reusing them and just slapping pop-culture paint jobs on them? Buy up some old toolings from Model Power, slap some electronics in 'em and the Lionel badge on the box and presto, new revenue stream for minimal expenditure!
@@Shipwright1918 I see. Well that's explains. Being owned by an investment group... Like Hornby but then the American way. Funny enough, also Märklin is owned by investors but they greatly maintain heavy investment in actual operations and business. I guess it's the German way versus the Anglo-Saxon variety shall we say... Such a pity for Lionel and their customers...
I would say it's more a case of business practices and caring for the company and what it makes than ethnic background.
Ultimately it's nothing new for Lionel, which has been changing owners every few years since the original Lionel Corporation (now defunct) spun the train line and the rights to use the name to General Mills, the cereal people.
The high point was when it was bought by Ruchard Kughn, his hand-picked management team brought Lionel to new heights making amazing trains. Helped that he collected Lionel trains with a passion and was enthusiastic about the company at large.
After he sold out, it's not been the same since.
@@Shipwright1918 Of course but general business practices are correlated to socioeconomic modelling. I had no ethnics in mind. The socioeconomic structure for the US and UK (therefore general business practices) is based on a local mindset of business culture (strongly towards shareholder value), whereas the German way is called the Rhineland model... Of course it all depends on intentions and backgrounds of owners and shareholders of an enterprise, but generally speaking, especially when it comes to investment companies, the business modelling in the Anglo-Saxon world differs greatly from the Rhineland framework. But of course, it will ultimately depend on the owners and shareholders. Sad to see that Lionel have been tossed around so many times...
Honestly I'm surprised all the Lionel trains you've tried have had poor quality and performance. Lionel is a pretty large and iconic brand here in the US, but granted they're mostly known for their older 3 rail O gauge and Standard gauge trains.
First lol.
Congratulations
Maybe what you should do is bring them up to descent condition and tell us how much it might cost. It would involve two new bogies, a knuckle connector and maybe some weathering. Can the enclosed wagons be opened and details added there too,
ps the caboose is around the wrong way.
I have a PS-1 boxcar from the same molding as your Union Pacific example. It came from an early 1960's Marx trainset. Of course back then it had horn-hook couplers and plastic wheel sets.
good video sam. interesting trademark from Lionel there.
judging by the caboose and the boxcar, these do seem like thay are just slightly updated model power models from 20 years ago if not even older The only difference being they have metal wheels and knuckly couplers.
What’s the point of this? You paid stuff all for them what do you expect? Don’t forget ,I’m sure there are plenty of young children hoping to get in to the hobby that would love these. What will they think when they see you shoot them down?
They’ll know to spend their money on something decent, that’s what they’ll do. You can’t give these to young children anyway because of the small parts - says that right on the box!
Listen the “budget” RTR models on average uses tooling from the 1960s-1980s with new paint slapped on it for $50. It’s nothing new but people buy it as long as it had knuckle couplers and metal wheels.
The state of American model railroading is a dumpster fire.
1:23 - Did you actually say "five different faeces of rolling stock"?
I don't like Lionel one bit, but I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. If these were never on sale I could understand the harshness, but I have a handful and never paid more than $10 for each. At that price, I really don't expect much more. While most other cheap rolling stock is hovering in the $25+ mark, these offer something that anyone could afford.
I own rolling stock similar to this from lifelike in starter sets and they perform the same. Unfortunately American starter set rolling stock is designed to be cheap and poor performing to incentivise people to buy the more expensive better quality better performing rolling stock that are double the cost
Ideal companions for Hornby's Steam punk stuff , along with the Lowmac Coca-cola and Victorian goods wagons. The packaging looked quite suitable for reuse on the plus side.!!
Feed them to the Evil Scrapman if they’re not that good. He needs his scrap sausages. The tankers especially look like sausages, the red box car looks like a steak and the yellow box car looks like a stick of butter. Delicious.
These models date from the 1970s from a company called Mantua. They're pretty much the same stuff you'll find in the cheap, used train section. They were later produced by Model Power and Lionel acquired the tooling cheaply after Model Power went bust around 2017.
HO scale has never been Lionel's main focus, so they hardly ever gave much attention to HO. They mainly produced $1,000+ O scale trains which are some of the finest you can buy.
3:19 I believe the color combination is trademarked, similar to John Deere's green and yellow on their tractors.
You're better off buying old Athearn blue box or Bachmann's warehouse finds rolling stock than Lionel's current HO rolling stock
Wibbly wobbly wonders one and all 🤣 Lionel Ho gauge leaves a lot to be desired they are just trading on their old 3 rail reputation and looking at those models they really shouldn’t bother. I have a lot of american Locos and getting decent rolling stock at reasonable prices isn’t easy thank God for eBay. 😁👍😁 ( Can anyone recommend a good brand for a set of Union Pacific coaches)?
Lionel doses deserve a proper fix. Just spray some WD 40 on the bogey and call it a day.
I love Lionel, but their modern stuff never really interests me with some exceptions. And their current HO brand confuses me.
Their early HO stuff as well as the trains and sets that made during the Prewar, Postwar, MPC, and LTI eras were so much more interesting to me.
Its ok they trademarked the colors blue and orange not the colours blue and orange. I think we're ok.
The 'Happy Hooves' wagon is going to the glue factory, full of animal hooves and other horrid bits, to be rendered down for glue. Satan's Reindeer are in there somewhere.
Egads! The equipment is very, very 1950’s cheap. They are so crudely designed and built. But, with some work they could be turned into something useful.
colours actualy can be trademarked
i think barbie ownes the pink they use in there toys
Can confirm: I once had a caboose identical to this one (aside from the livery) and it was under the Model Power brand. And yes, it was dreadful; poorly balanced, derailed constantly.
That said, I do believe there could be a market for simple, basic, cheap, low detail train sets; not these, obviously, but something of a similar mindset that's slightly better made. The biggest problem with model railroading right now is the prohibitive barrier to entry price; it's just too expensive for young folks to want to take the first dive or buy a starter train set to get their kids hooked. And even when they do more often than not all you get is a loco and maybe 3-4 wagons and an oval of track, hardly hair-raising stuff. But if you could have a range that's cheap to mass produce to keep cost down but still looks halfway decent to the casual eye and can offer a fun and engaging experience for less than $300, that could be the hook needed to get youngsters and newbies interested before leading them on to the harder stuff.
Like starting on beer before learning about whiskey.
Hey what happened to the sandwich thumbnail video?
No wonder these supposedly modern wagons suck. They are Ancient model power toolings from the 70’s! I have some of these cars just in different livery’s. Also the trucks and coupling box design are the exact same from the 70’s too!
haha yeah that's what I've heard - no wonder they're no good then!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
For a few dollars more, you can get a Walthers Trainline rolling stock that is more detailed in terms of molding, crispier decals, metal wheels, more separately applied parts, and better performance. Walthers Trainline is so much better for your money if you were to compare the Lionel HO of the same caliber.
A basic cheap & cheerful Rolling Stock Sam!!! 😉😀🚂🚂🚂
Why are you bothering with Lionel - toy junk
Ah yes, Lionel HO. The hornby of America
Modern Lionel and Hornby do have at least one thing in common, both produce overpriced tat, while banking off of an historic/iconic brand name.
Flippin heck these are bad! But still, better than some of Hornby's tat ;) my other manor turned up today, how about yours?
hahaha! Well at least these are cheap, unlike some of Hornby's! Still waiting for my Manor annoyingly - should be around soon!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Yeah, uhh, pretty much every other American manufacturer makes better HO stuff. Lionel are the kings of O gauge, but there's a reason why they're known for such.
One thing noticeable on some of the cars is the date of manufacture of the original cars, Early 1980's also the details are of this era with top mounted walkways and multiple ladders (UP car and caboose), But even toys should couple and run together. Do not junk them. You have the basis of a train wreck, junk yard, or a car body used for a none railway purpose. Just like past UK rail stock (a lot of chickens lived in box vans.) Will need to kill the colours though.
Not exactly Accurascale Siphon Gs, are they? That lot, except the UP van which *was* worth a tenner, need a Happy Hoofing. BTW, the colours RED, GREEN and BLACK are registered trademarks of Valleys 56xx inc. and anything whatsoever, model trains or otherwise, in these colours owe me 5% royalties. Nice turntable.