Glennon Doyle: Manage Anxiety, Personal Truth & Transformation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Mayim gets starstruck and emotional talking with NYT best selling author, Oprah Book club alum, and featured Goop friend Glennon Doyle. Mayim and Glennon bond about the challenges of being publicly vulnerable and the emotional toll it takes to share authentically. It's a discussion about blended families, making relationships work, and how to improve communication when both parts of a couple are in recovery. The episode touches on personal transformation, finding one's personal truth, and how Glennon and Mayim's relationship with anxiety has changed over time. Do not miss this emotional, heartfelt, and very personal episode.
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"If I trusted you, or anyone, I might believe that. " -- My response to every single time anyone has ever tried to encourage me. Mayim, you haven't even done 9 podcasts yet, and yet you've already put so many things into words that I've felt my whole life. This is the only podcast I've stuck with this long, and I can't wait for the next one.
WOW!! THANK YOU!!!
@@MayimBialik what did you do with the (3'X5') Israeli flag I gave you?
Ditto! Well said Karla!
Same!!!
This is so true... Thank you for those words that I could not form , but feel. 💕
“I live for the moment of the couch.” OMG. Have been ashamed of this my whole life. Thank you! Anxiety is friggin’ exhausting.
That bit about social anxiety hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt so seen. Loved this podcast!
I got so much out of this podcast. The biggest takeaway for me was that it is OK to know that I am not the "got it all together" adult at the age of 65 and that is OK. The concept of life is a journey for the ENTIRE time was reinforced for me. Thanks.
I love that Jonathan was more involved in this conversation
Same here!!!
It’s be great if she wasn’t interrupting him so often when he’s trying to get a thought out.
I think he had to be. The gals were in their feelings so much. 💙🙏🏻☀️
I know exactly what you mean by being an introvert stayhomer! I’ve been enjoying the past year of lockdown so much because finally I don’t need to find excuses why I prefer to be home alone!
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say that they just want to be done. I live that every moment. Whatever I am doing, even if I'm enjoying myself, I just can't wait to be done. Then I can sit down in front of my computer and watch something on TH-cam. Sad but true...
Thanks for watching! You can also stream this episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you listen to podcasts! #BialikBreakdown
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I look forward to watching this every week! You & Jonathan take the time to present an informative program while giving us a laugh or two while doing so! Keep up the good work! Hope
We from NYC live in black all the time. Lewis Black calls it NY’s school color. Anxiety Central. Come home anytime, Mayim.
I thought I was the only one who cried when I turned 10!
Is Jonathan your boyfriend?
Love breakdown
These are exactly the kinds of conversations we all need to have.
I honestly feel like I need to watch this about five more times (and I probably will) before leaving a review of it, but here we go. What I love so much about this podcast is that no one is pretending. I saw that especially in this week's episode. No one has all the answers. This podcast is bringing awareness and showing how real humans can be. Things are hard. Anxiety is real. Being alive is not easy and that was showcased in this episode. This podcast does not exist to fix anyone because it can't. It exists to make people feel less alone. To show that there are other people in the world who do get it and do understand. Mayim, you talked in this episode about how Glennon's book made you feel understood, well that is how you make me feel every time I watch this podcast. I may not relate to every single thing talked about, but I do relate to a great deal of things. What I don't relate to, I have a newfound understanding and awareness of something. This podcast shows me that no one is okay and no one knows the answers, but together we will become more aware. Thank you so much to Mayim, Jonathon, and Glennon for another incredible episode. Can't wait for next week. Much love to all.
Iiiiiiiiii
"Nothing reduces my anxiety." I felt that viscerally.
Mayim fangirling over Glennon is my favorite thing ever 😂
50:53
My dad told me recently that I can't be in therapy forever. I'm on the same page as you, Mayim. I have those "how much more, God?" moments so often. Therapy helps me work through those. So, yes dad, I can be in therapy as long as I damn well please.
Sorry for jumping on again but I just got to the part of the podcast where the topic is living to retire and hearing Mayim and Glennon talk about their feelings, especially when Glennon mentioned having to order pizza and not be able for that to be done, made me cry. I have never heard anyone ever talk about this experience before and I live with that everyday. Normally I put my head down and just ignore those sorts of things so I can just get through the day but when I can't it is torture. I have even been known (who I am kidding, I do it a lot) to ask my husband to make a phone call because the idea of putting myself out there like that is just so terrifying. Thank you thank you thank you.
58:23 There was a time when I knew that if I had a glass of wine (or some other alcohol) now to feel a little relieved, I would be addicted in no time.
I managed to not drink that glas. That was the strongest thing I did in my live.
I would love to see an episode on EMDR. As a therapist I find it very helpful for anxiety.
I love the voice Mayim makes when she’s making fun of herself. I crack up every time.
OMG me too and I have similar in mine!
I think that shame is another category for our issues. It is distinctly different than fear, but is often tightly wrapped with fear in a bundle.
I've never felt more understood by anyone the way I feel Glennon does.
@Mayim Bialik I would love to hear more on eating disorders/food addiction in the future.
I was taught to be hyper vigilant as well as a toddler even. Trying to retrain my brain now ❤
One of my doctors gave me the phrase, "I am significantly insignificant and insignificantly significant." It helps moderate my "terminal uniqueness".
I like to say I’m perfectly imperfect.
Somehow this episode broke my heart and soothed my soul at the same time. I spent most of it with a tight feeling in my chest alternating between the edges of tears and laughter. It's startling every time I hear someone speak in a way that makes this much sense to me but having it happen like this with two people at once was extraordinary. It's a blessing to be reminded that others think about these things too and I'm not alone. Thank you!
My own life’s motto can be very accurate for this episode: “You were born to be real, not perfect”.
You must be fed up I say this after every #bialikbreakdown episode, but all pure GOLD! And this is a 💎to me! Btw, I like a lot the way Jonathan is so active in the podcats now. Kudos for him too! 💜👍🏾🌹Thank you both!
Thank you!! And yes, I agree! Jonathan is the best. :)
@@MayimBialik Absolutely! You both teaming is awesome!
So interesting. I too always feel/felt as being "too much" or even a monster to others. Never heard someone else saying this. I like to share my thoughts and most of the time people are not able to follow them, or tell me they never think about these things. For example I will sit in the car to get my daughter to school and all of a sudden I see all those people in their cars rushing to work, to school, to appointments and it freaks me out. Why are we doing this? Nothing of this has real importance, why are we following this stupid time schedule 8 to 6 (where I live it is more 6 to 8, people are proud of working ALL THE TIME). And why on earth is no one questioning this life the way I do it? Thank you for this interview. I feel less alone in this world.
It's just so strange to listen to a podcast that makes me feel so "heard" and understood. We all think we are the only one. Terminal uniqueness. but... this existential "stuff" is just my brain's constant pattern and everyone in this podcast gets it and has their own version of it and I am floored.
Anxiety takes many forms in one's mind. It took me becoming a young adult before I learned to manage my anxiety. It is a different world now.
Mayim, on a different subject, you’re killing it on Jeopardy!
Loved this! Especially the dying bit - being in a restaurant everyone eating and feeling like shouting "do you all know we're gonna die soon". Been like that my whole life 😄
I love this series. I love this episode. I can so relate with being “done”. As far back as I can remember is that I loved evenings because the day is done. I’m a single mom and I love my children but I can’t wait to finish birthday celebrations...planning, execution is done. I thought I was the only one. Christmas any annual or seasonal celebration I can’t wait for it to be done. Thank you😊 for this.
I agree. My dad used to say randomly "What a long day!" a lot, and I as a young and naïve girl starting out in life would say what a wonderful thing that was...until now as an older adult, I have now started to say that also, even tho I have had an OK (not a bad) day. LOL! It's good to see someone else thinks that way too. I love this series also. God bless.
I've always loved the *memory* of something far more than the actual doing of the thing that gave me the memory, which usual exhausted me in the moment of the doing.
Congrats on the one million subscribers. I look forward to this podcast every week.
Same
"If I trusted you, or anyone, I might believe that. " I literally laughed out loud and nearly fell on the floor.
Recently, I am looking forward to every Tuesday to listen to Breakdown with precious and helpful sharings from the hosts and guests tho! Thank you, Mayim Bialik!
💜
@@MayimBialik I use too think of you every time I listened to CRUSH WITH EYELINER, by REM, I would also think of my cousin CATERINA. Know I think of LIZ MIELE when I hear that song.
Awesome episode! This hit me hard at 42 with an anxious personality. I love Glennon's comment about anxiety being paying attention - that's really what it is! We pay attention and think about things deeply. So enjoyed all of this!
It’s so refreshing to hear people talking about mental health issues! I’ve struggled with anxiety for as long as I can remember, within the last couple of years depression was added to it. My parents just don’t understand and say just forget about it, don’t worry about it, think of something else.. I was diagnosed with Lupus last year which can trigger or cause anxiety and depression so it’s kind of which came first the chicken or the egg 🤯
My parents are high school sweethearts and so are both sets of grandparents. When you discussed the immense pressure of having successful relationships because you were consciously and subconsciously comparing them to your parents it really spoke to me. I’m about to turn 20 and when I graduated high school without being in a successful relationship I had a complete meltdown because I knew in that moment that I would never be as successful as my parents. Thank you for so eloquently encompassing the way I felt
Hey! I completely agree with your point of feeling pressured, it puts a certain weight onto you (and/or your partner/ relationship in general, when you are in one at the moment), but I think it doesn't always have to be the case in that way. In my family, divorce or relationships who aren't that full of love and adoration as in yours apparently (which is so so nice to hear that this kind of love exists!) are kind of common. My parents divorced when I was young, and I've been living with my mother and my stepfather. There are many things I see in their dynamic that I do not like at all, and that I don't ever want to have in a relationship I'm part of. They are good people, but I never liked their way of handling conflict, their expression of anger or frustration and discussions always turn into arguments. So I always told myself, that I don't ever want that type of relationship, because I know I would never be happy with that arrangement. When I'm with my boyfriend (whose parents are some type of sweethearts too, I don't think it's the high school kind though) I often feel very relieved that it is absolutely, totally different than what they have, since my idea of the relationship I feel the best in is basically the way it is for us two, because this idea is similar to the things he always experienced around him and thus automatically brings into the relationship (of course, it's not the exact same thing, but the relationship - and he! - are the closest thing to perfection to me), at least chunks of it, if that makes sense. What he and I have makes love even more loveable to me. What makes me worry is when I think I handle conflict like one of them in certain situations, because in my mind, their handling of this is toxic, so my anxiety is not that my relationship is different than my parents', but that I could make it resemble theirs in the way how I react in certain situations. So the anxiety is more on being like them, thus making my partner feel like I often felt before.
But honestly, I'm so happy for you to have experienced such loving relationships around you. On the other hand, it's sad that you feel so anxious. I hope that it is somewhat bearable for you, and that it doesn't overwhelm or restrict you all too much, or that it stands you in the way
Absolutely fantastic Mayim! I’ve certainly liked all of your guest, but this has been the best by far. You and Glennon had chemistry. I ordered her book 15 minutes in. Thank you so much for being a normal person and not pretentious at all:)
OMGoodness! I saw the title of today's show and wasn't sure it was for me. I didn't know about Glennon, but chose to watch because everything Mayim talks about is great! Within 2 minutes of the interview I was crying. I especially agree with the comment, "How much more, God, do you want from me?". Dayanu! Expectations - UGH! So much anxiety, why can't we stop? (rhetorical) Thank you for today!
That's a lot of wisdom getting an airing - and honesty. It's easy to forget what that sounds like sometimes!
When Jonathan says disconnecting, sanitizing and protecting..nails it. I was taught these basic survival skills from immigrant parents who came to succeed in terms of the outside world and hoped to fit in a bit or, at least not be ostracized. So these egoic structures made good sense!
Just because you become a parent,doesn’t make everything become apparent!! That’s what I know for sure.❤️
I don’t remember what Glennon said right before but I love the statement Mayim made about having to parent as an anxious person. That statement alone freed something in me . Thank you for doing this very important work!
That grounding calm you described when you hold a child is spot on. It's like someone pressed pause on the world and nothing else exists in that one moment. Loving the podcast. As you say finding one of my 'tribe' is really difficult. So being able to listen to like minded people talk, especially while we are in lockdown, has been amazing. Thank you 👍🏼
This is the highlight of my Tuesday! More Mayim Bialik's Breakdown! More! MORE!!! (More please)
I read something to the extent of: The more personal something feels, the more universal it really is. So we are really not as alone or Terminally Unique as we think we are. Love the podcast. “Untamed” is so freakin awesome, her books just keep getting better and better. “When can we be done” crew, represent! I wear nothing but black too!
You two being so in awe of each other is just so great. Two of my favorites!
"Am I anxious or am I just paying attention " I love that. I have been "paying attention " since I was 4 years old.
We (me and my friend/colleague) are currently working on the Hungarian translation of Glennon's book, so I am really looking forward this episode, I love having all kinds of insights into the writer's mind. :)
Remek hír! De jó!!
I have lived my life to be done with this life..... from childhood filled with drama, I have eating disorders, anxiety filled days, sleep problems! Life seems so hard that at 6 years old I decided to not bring a child into this world! Great great interview... love this podcast. The best ever! Been in therapy most of my life!
Every show seems to give me more hope. I’m not alone in the lost of it all! Thank you world for these precious people as guides! May all our struggles be less!!! ♥️
This. 💜
Another host that doesn’t let the guest speak. Cmon Mayim
This is the first time Mayim has sounded like she is having her breakdown as she says “from my breakdown to the one I hope you never have”. This was enjoyable to watch because it is simply two beautiful, open human beings sharing the complexities of life. It’s the type of conversation you do wish for when you go stay at a resort, Mayim. It’s the type of connection you wish to have with more than just one person in your lifetime. Thank you for having Glennon on the show.
Jonathan has such good insights. I love how he described falling in love with someone who has qualities that when mirrored makes us need to work on ourselves.
I totally needed to hear this! I swear from the death thing & anxiety to about most anything. I learned not to trust the hard way when I was only 7, a couple years later I learned what death was & what it really meant. That is a daily thought somewhere every day still. I'm 68, the most dreaded age because by 23 I thought I was just a day closer to death. Why wasn't anyone else thinking about this their whole life? Is it just me being weird? I had awful anxiety & panic attacks. I worked very hard to be perfect for everyone only to be betrayed. I am very secure in my relationship now but I was 56 before we met! Zero drama or kissing butt to be loved has really helped! The anxiety is still a daily thing, I think I've just learned to deal with it all better. It's there but not all consuming. I'm not going to quit smoking, I can't do anything else because of my disease & meds for it. So smoker's guilt it is. lol I also held out for electric butterflies, like with our first love after being widowed (23 years, no butterflies sadly) we went on 3 dates, still on #3 12 years later. I waited 7 years for the other shoe to drop but it never has & we've been married 5 years. He grounds me & unlike every other person in my life, my normal self is his fantasy & yet my best was never good enough for anyone before. I wake up? It's a good start! I'm medicated for my anxiety with something that just works & I can't tell I took anything. Life is good, I just want it to last a very long time. Thanks for this pod cast Mayim.
You became a neuroscientist with a newborn! You are an inspiration to this mother of 2 boys. Please give yourself grace. Thanks for being so real.
this show talks about mental health and therapy but to me, this podcast is sort of like therapy for me. its informative in a very entertaining way and feels natural. never thought I'd be listening to this type of thing. Mayim is my same age and I grew up watching blossom in the bronx. thanks for doing this show.
Haven't had a chance to finish, but it struck me that sometimes when people say, "you're so brave" they're really thinking about themselves; as in, I'm too afraid to wear a bathing suit in public because I hate my body. Or you're so brave to say those things because I never say what I think for fear of ..... any number of things. Even if someone says, you're so brave to do a movie when you're thirty pounds overweight; I think they're talking about themselves. They would be too afraid to do a movie if they were, or think they are, overweight. So, you really are brave! ;-)
"I live for the moment of being done." Thank you! That is exactly what I needed to hear.
Parenting as an anxious person! This is my life! Thank you for having the hard conversations!!
Love the line "I live to be done..."
I can’t believe how much I related to everything in this podcast and that I’ve only just seen it. When I read untamed I actually cried my eyes out because it’s the first time I ever felt seen. I think I need to put this on repeat every night.
Two things really struck me: the "being done", which I realize I do to a point where when something is finished I seem to put it out of my mind to an extent I don't even remember it, and the "scanning the room" to look for possible things that will upset me or the person I'm with. I knew I had control issues, and I knew I had anxiety issues, but this episode had me making the connections. I know myself a teensy bit better now. Or at least I can explain myself to myself a teensy bit better. Thank you so much for doing this. I learn something from every single episode. I'm grateful.
Being done...or is it knowing when I have done ENOUGH? Or is it that I want to be able to spend all my time pondering all of this stuff?
I found your podcasts because of your being on the Kelly Clarkson show this week. We already love the tv show and are so glad there’s a second season!!!! And we think you’re amazing on Jeopardy!!!! But tonight I’ve watched several podcasts and this one, where you spoke your truth for the first time publicly, helped me and so many others. Attitude of gratitude and I am grateful for you!!!! Please feel that in every cell. I mean it from my heart!! 💜
This podcast is become apart of my mindfulness ritual. Being able to sit down with a glass (after a long day of work and cleaning up after the kids) and just being able to sit and feel heard and that I am not alone. THANKYOU Mayim and Jonathan!
Was not aware of her and so happy to be introduced to this very cool, smart and funny human. And Mayim, if my guy had made a similar (trying to be helpful) comment about Glennon's sweater, I have to confess that some puny voice that I do not like in my head would be on that exact same track..."Oh really? What's wrong with my sweater? You like her better than me." I mean come ON what is it that I can recognize how insane that reaction is, yet still have it. I suspect it has to do with attachment styles, which would be a great subject for your pod! Thanks for your insights. It's clear that you spend time researching your guests.
Every Tuesday I’ll sit here with my notebook and I’ll literally take notes bc I feel so inspired by all of these episodes. I’m learning so much. Thank you so much for another incredible ep! Also the matching outfits were on point this week
Thank you. Anxiety is my middle name but now I feel as though maybe, maybe I am not that big disaster that I have judged myself to be! That at the very least, it is not so much disaster, as it is life. Your podcast has given me the chance to accept my anxiety in a much healthier, less judgemental way. BTW, I only this morning mentioned to someone I was having conversation with, that I trust no-one! I love your broadcasts in fact I look forward to them. Thank you soooo much.
love this conversation. one thing I've found to be a helpful suggestion is to Not identify yourself with anxiety. it's not your anxiety or my anxiety. it is anxiety and separate from your being. it's part of one's experience, and informs experience, but is not one's identity.
Literally just heard this from my therapist! We can get through it, peeps 😊
Being present is simple- BUT not easy. Anxiety and fear are real- because we make them real. I think anxiety comes from focusing on our past or future. Shame and fear of future shame. I believe we get so stuck in our heads, our thoughts, our experiences, and our stories that we forget to allow ourselves to just be- AND accept and allow ourselves while “being.”
This is great. I have looked for a wisdom school type "girls & moms & elders washing the garments at the river & talking" podcast for years, here it is at last. This is truly your evolving vocation & gift to Earth & people. Teilhard de Chardin called it (one's genius meeting the need of one's age in history) "the Great Work." Thank you all three! It is "so brave of you!" 🤗
It’s so soothing. Mayim truly embraces the “tribe” here. That village of silent doing rather than SAYING.
New information is so neat.
Glennon Doyle is saying we need to be really honest with ourselves and open to other people and people would do better if they did that. The real message is in realizing this is actually very radical and rare to people..
I used to feel so anxious about dying when I was child after my uncle died. I still do sometimes. But I take a breath & say to my self you have to let it go & enjoy life. It works for me most of the time. ❤
My clinical psychologist is in Westwood I've seen him weekly since 2012.
He says "mental health is a subtractive process - you remove the illness and what's left is healthy."
All these gurus have it wrong they try to add an attitude to overcome the illness. It doesn't work that way.
My Doctor graduated in 1978 I can't put into words how supreme his approach is - no new age, airy fairy stuff.
Example: all Doctors are falling over them selves to get on the ADHD bandwagon - I asked about ADHD he said " I don't think labels are important, when people are anxious they can't concentrate."
This was a great one! The moments of non-anxiety (being in love, hugs, etc) are moments that release oxytocin. This counteracts cortisol. For my anxiety, I try to make sure I have "oxytocin" moments every day! Like you said, you don't really get cured of anxiety. However, oxytocin moments are one of my favorite tools in my tool box :)
What are Oxytocin moments vs Dopamine moments?
The way Glennon describes being a severe introvert Is really interesting to me. While I'm not in introvert I am a Wheelchair User so my body doesn't always do what I want it to do. So I spend most of my time in my head. Anxiety, abuse and death (among so much more) change your perspective on life, the universe and everything. Ten seems to be a pivotal age for us deep thinkers, I remember realising back then that the wheelchair was forever, it was crushing. But then many in my life see disability as something to overcome and a lifetime of therapy makes me realise, it just is. Some days I love it and some I hate it, both are valid especially when I am the one deciding. This podcast rocks thank you so much everyone.
Your show is helping me get through the end of this pandemic. I am so glad I found you.
I think Tuesday is my favorite day of the week. New episodes of MBB & it’s my Friday at work. Thanks for another great episode to get me thinking before starting my “weekend.”
Mayim, you’ve always been such a pleasure to watch as an actress, and now...
the world gets to experience more of your intelligence, compassion, vulnerability and humor through Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown. Win-win for all. I enjoy both you and Jonathan and your sincerity and kindness toward your guests. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself.
Namaste.
Cha Cha Cha! 💃🏼🤓😃
I have watched this soooooo many times and I still love it. I loooooooove you, Mayim! I so love Glennon! OMG!
This episode made me emotional 😭 I go back and forth on having kids all the time because I’m scared of being my mom and essentially passing my BPD off on them because of my trauma affecting their development even though I’ve been in therapy on and off for 16 years now. It’s scary. Thank you for talking about this stuff 💞
I empathize 💕
Mayim that was a brilliant podcast, you make me think so much.
OMG - listening to you both talk about your anxiety, social anxiety and how this rules your life - you articulate how I feel! So refreshing knowing that others are out there in the world. Being hypervigilent is so exhausting. BTW - hi there from Sydney, Australia.
Also, this authentic energy is so so seen. Thank you for being so outwardly human. It’s beautiful.
When you're present, it's hard to be anxious... I'll find a way. So true.
I just LOVE to see your new videos every-freaking-time on my home page. Your energy and genuine contents makes me feel good about myself and my own breakdowns. It's an honor to be a part of your "breakdown" and ofc to know you!
This was the PERFECT thing I needed after a hard first day back at school - thank you Mayim 💗
This may be the best thing I hear all of 2024 and we are on January 2nd!! :)
I think I'm glad this is the first of your Breakdown videos I've watched. The people, the topics, the insights and the raw honesty have been a fantastic introduction to the channel. Thank you all for being so real and sharing so much.
“Worry yourself to a good outcome” GOT IT!!!
I'm so enjoying this podcast more than most! I'm a therapist early in her career and your podcasts are really helping me be a better therapist to my clients. 💗 You're doing so much good in this world thank you🌍
I have watched this 3 times now. I am so thankful I have found your podcast. I love watching you on TH-cam. Much needed in so many ways. I am now a bigger Glennon Doyle fan.😁
Whoa. To hear Glennon and Mayim say the very same words I often do is mind blowing. I’m 54 and have read every book, cleansed every chakra, prayed all the prayers, taken all the meds, done all the therapy, etc....how am I not better? I guess I do suffer from terminal uniqueness after all. I’ve heard this term for years and always blown it off as a cheeky old timers recovery colloquialism, but this podcast just brought it home for me.
Ok in all honesty, I AM better. Just not as good as I think I should be. Thank you both for the willingness to be vulnerable and share yourselves with us. You are so valuable and precious in this f*&$ed up world.
Thank you for this conversation. Grateful.
Mayim, I've tuned into this episode 4 times so far and I'm not done watching it all yet. I'm exploring feelings, writing thoughts, and crying tears of empathy. I know about that hole, dear girl. I know.
Your honesty is what makes us all watch keep doing what you do because we all love it...
Thanks Mayim Bialik for sharing as it's to great to know we are not alone
I love this so much.
I hope it never goes away.
Every time a new one pops up I say
yes!
Listening to you helps me so much.
Thank you
This podcast came across my feed today. I’ve never heard it before. OMG what an amazing listen!!! Thank you ladies!!
These podcasts are a revelation, a relief and so helpful thanks to all contributors xx 💕💃🦸♀️
Two of my favorite people talking together! What?!!! Love, love, love. Also, I think I need to watch it a few more times and maybe take notes!