vincent207 this is exactly why will not be watching it. I understand the need to build in a new generation, but not at the cost of the original fans. I am 100% cool with a female lead. Just don’t cram woke culture down my throat.
And it's a waste of money spent. When you buy a franchise, you're buying the audience too. You literally had a consumer base just waiting to be sold stuff to and the suits thought that instead of growing that proven base that it would be better to drive them away and hope a new one pops up that they found more palatable for their mindset.
I think Tim Miller was more addressing a particularly loathesome swathe of Internet culture rather than specifically Terminator fans. However, not addressing legitimate fan concerns in favor of lashing out at "misogynists" is still not a great idea.
@Fuzzy McBabyHead Then maybe they should stay off of social media. These are just mean words on the internet, they can't hurt you until you let them. It's called being a professional and an adult. I work in the entertainment industry as well and I've seen countless insults towards projects I've been working on. All I do is check them from time to time to see if there's any legitimate complaints and ignore the rest of the pointless haterd from retards who don't have anything constructive to say.
Jenn I find it staggering that they’re so angry with us old white guys who’s interest and money has kept these franchises alive by reading the books and buying the games and so on.
I don't mind expectations being subverted so long as it's done in a manner that's intelligent and understands the material that it's working with - the problem here is that the writers don't even really understand what it is they are subverting in the first place.
And a bunch of beta boys apparently. "The poster has THREE WOMEN on it! GO WOKE GO BROKE!" I guess the film should have came with a trigger warning for frail male egos.
@@nathandavis1742 "a trigger warning for frail male egos",, LOL An old granny, a lesbo and a mexican't walk into a bar... is the beginning of a bad joke, not a storyline for a feature film.
@@KardboardKenny Yeah, this is about at the level most of the criticism is online for this film. Haters gonna hate. Plenty of things wrong with the film, but too woke it is not.
Meanwhile, Joker is dancing through 1 billion any moment now. This shows there's not only a market, but a hunger for good, non-gynocentric movies. Let's hope someone is listening.
Coming from the future and bringing good tiddings: yes, The Joker has danced through the 1 billion like an Irish tap-dancer on speed. And the gyno-fascists don't like it... one bit! I also brought back a ticket for the new Charlie's Angels and would be willing to part with it for, say, 50 cents? Or a half-smoked cigarette... gotta be flexible in the future....
TY sir. for doing this. im also a white male but form mexico and the emasculation of guilt doesnt work on us. and i have many friends that say the same thing.
@Mi Ke Nope, skynet actually dead. Dont tell me all AI is the same. even there is new guy rule the europe like Hitler in the future, hes not Hitler himself.
John Smith T3 was never bad. Just unnecessary and initially not well received by fans and critics, who both just couldn’t see the good qualities of the movie like the great ending and cool action sequences and special effects.
Conor Nordenstam - I’m aware of that, and to piggyback on what you said, most of the scenes and plot points in the first 2/3 of T3 were almost a direct copy of T2. However, it is still an entertaining movie and has a very good ending of its own. So much so, I still watch it when it comes on TV. Matter fact, I still watch all the first 3 films in the franchise.
"What went so wrong?" Short answer; not understanding the source material and relying too much on action and brand recognition (i.e. lazy filmmaking 101).
What source material? T1 and T2 were basically stand alone films with no real fleshed out lore. They just added in what fit the story at the time. Its not like they had book or games to ignore. This is worse because they had much more freedom to make a good film without being restricted to source material.
From what I gather this film seems like it can't decide whether it wants to be a Halloween 2018 or an "event blockbuster" (think new Jurassic Parks, Disney Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Disney live-action remakes). But it definitely can't be as bad as Genisys.
So, the lessons we learned today: - Don't make something for the sake of making it; have some kind of goal in mind. - Don't insult the crowd that will ultimately pay your bills; that is failure waiting to happen. Even if you're doing something that will ultimately be unpopular, calling those who believe you to be doing wrong to be in the wrong just makes things worse. TL;DR: Don't Straw-man if you feel Straw-maned. - There is nothing subversive about saying and doing what is constantly being said and done; Some would say that at this point, playing tropes straight would actually be more surprising.
A combination of things went wrong, killing john connor early on was one of them(the leaks mentioned that months ago)which had me worried about the direction this film was going. The director said some silly things about men being scared of the strong women in this film(whatever that means). We also had some terrible recent terminator movies which has killed a lot of peoples enthusiasm for this film. And to cap it all off, they went the girl power route with all 3 main characters female(not the direction i would have taken for a movie that has a male dominated fanbase). Bit of a mess really. Edit, i typed this before i watched the vid, you pretty much said what i posted.
Before all those things, it still would have failed because of the previous 3 movies. Audiences aren't as stupid as the studios think they are and they can recognize a pattern. Hell, seems like most of the reboots and decades-later sequels have flopped for the past ten years (remember all those reboots of 80s slasher movies where Halloween was the only to get a sequel?) Everything you listed just alienated the few remaining loyalists who would have slightly propped up the movie.
I agree with the fan base part. Males have no problems with good, well written female protagonists, ie. Ripley from Alien and Aliens and Sarah Conner with the first two Terminators. With that said, the action movie genre fanbase is traditionally male. You need to cater to your fanbase, because I haven't seen any romantic comedies made cater to males and be quasi insulting to females yet. I have three teenage daughters, not once have I heard them express any interest in any of the "newer" Terminator movies. I was 14 when Terminator 2 came out. Every teenage male went and watched that movie usually more than once. Hollywood is so wrapped up into their own weird ideologies and agendas, they forgot that people just want to be entertained. We want to escape normal everyday life for a few hours and live vicariously through heroes on the screen. We don't want agendas, identity politics, or political messages. We want a hero, that overcomes adversity to defeat a great villian. This isn't rocket science.
I would argue this was even worse than Alien 3, after all Aliens and the Alien franchise didn't revolve around Newt, but the Terminator franchise *did* revolve around John Connor.
Agreed. Also, Alien 3 didn't kill Newt and Hicks to push an agenda, they just didn't fit in with 5he story they wanted to give Ripley. That was all Sigourney Weaver input.
@@jamiebraswell5520 It mainly happened because the original set burned down early in production and they had to pick up the pieces and rewrite everything to actually get the film out, so its amazing it turned out as well as it did.
@@j.d.buchanan4897 , I like the Producer's Cut of Alien 3, but that isn't the point of the discussion. The point is that killing off Newt and Hicks like that had a huge negative backlash that the movie had never been able to shake off. James Cameron criticized the decision, yet now basically does the same thing to John Connor, yet again having a huge negative backlash. Back to Alien 3, the idea to kill off Newt and Hicks off screen was already a part of the Vincent Ward version that had been green lit by the studio initially. The hilarious script by Eric Red killed them off screen too, along with Ripley. Killing them wasn't just an idea David Fincher had, but had been floated around for quite some time.
Skewed perceptions. That's not the general societal perception of a feminine appearance or traits. At least before the "woke" people made being a feminine woman sound like a mortal sin.
Exactly, Cameron as portrayed by Summer Glau in Sarah Connor Chronicles is what I would call “very feminine”, and Summer Glau was the major reason I watched the tv series, she was hot! Can’t say the same for Grace, I’m sure the lesbian community would find her attractive.
@@Bohemian0522 The only people who don't like Cameron seem to be the people running the franchise. As popular as she is with the fans who are familiar with her, you'd think they'd at least try to copy that same formula again with a new character, even if rights issues prevent them from bringing Cameron back.
What’s especially hilarious to me is that during Terminator Salvations production an early version of the script was leaked online. Which revealed that they planned to have John Connor killed partway into the movie and have another character basically take his place. The big twist of the movie was going to be that John Connor was never the hero, it was actually someone else who took the name and identity of John Conner after he died that would become the real hero of mankind. Naturally fans were pissed when they learned about this and made an enormous outcry against the movie and the creators were forced to change the script so John Connor wasn’t killed off and he did become the savior of man. Welp.....so much for that.....
@@HTx78 Considering the every movie after T2 has been on a downward trend, I don't think anyone can call it a cash cow anymore. Audiences know the brand, but they also know a Terminator movie after T2 equals a crap movie.
azn1011 they can continue these movies as long as they are good. Same goes with any other franchise out there. They made a mistake by releasing this movie overseas a week before it was released in the US. Most people knew that they killed John Conner during the first 3 minutes of this movie. Also, the people who make these films and these actors need to STFU about their politics or this will continue to happen! Next movie to underwhelm the box office: Soy Wars Episode 9
@@testaccount8921 that would make the director's comments even worse because then they DID remove her feminine aspects for this role and the entire point of his comment is wrong
C'mon guys the actress who played grace was actually pretty good! No that I'm defending the movie.. it can burn in hell right next to that HACK tim miller.
Thank you for the comment about the "Sarah Connor Chronicles". Not only did it feel more like the 'true' successor to T2, it also dealt with some 'high concept' sci-fi, such as the consequences of Time Travel, and what were the true motives of the Artificial Intelligence(s) involved in the show (Skynet had a rival, although I can't recall its name). Personally, I don't know if the 'Get Woke, Go Broke' thing entirely applies, here. Hell, Cameron pretty much created the genre cliche of "Action Girl" in movies, thanks to Sarah Connor and Ripley. If any movie should be expected to have strong women in it, its a Terminator (or Cameron helmed "Alien') movie. The movies failure had more to do with not respecting what made the franchise popular in the first place, and simple bad writing.
There were a couple of different AI in the show, but I think you mean John Henry, the anti-skynet AI created by a rebellious, readheaded T1001 right near the end of season 2, using the body of the main hunter Terminator from season 1. An idea I loved, because it shows there's more to the future war than just 'single human general beats AI, AI tries to cheat'
They will blame wahmen and pretty soon a female lead will be unheard of because "women leads are just don't make money, we tried it in the 2020's " not bad script = nobody interested. Mad max was feminist as fuck and was great and critically acclaimed. Shit studios
Tim Miller is a widely disliked person. I'm in post production, and have been told personally how toxic Miller is. Safe to say, he gets the outcome he deserves.
I will never consider watching anything from Tim Miller again after his attacking fans. These idiots want to do that, then I will go out of my way to never again support them. I am tired if their bullshit.
Whilst I agree with his point of view regarding the low-ball budget, I'm certain he made his case in an appalling way, which was the real reason for his firing. I'm glad it happened, although knocking him down a peg or two, had little effect on his demeanour.
I picked the shitty "Obsessed" movie Beyonce was terrible in, over this. Really though I haven't watched a Terminator since the 3rd one with Skynet, I rolled my eyes too many times with that one for the rest of the franchise.
As for myself when I first saw the first Terminator movie with its epic future war scene the future war is something I really wanted to see and just about everyone else for that matter.
Nope - the wahmen promo poster killed it. People who haven't seen the movie wouldn't even know John Connor gets killed - but that poster tells them everything they need to know about the plot and the agenda of the film makers.
@@brickmissing8295 People also forget that this is following on directly from Genysis which also flopped. But yes, the poster already immediately tells you that it's not your dad's terminator. And usually that's code for we're shitting all over this franchise and beating you over the head with current year propaganda. Yeah, no thanks. You can shove that up your ass - whether you're Terminator, Star Wars, Marvel, DC - i don't care.
For me, as soon as someone brings up misogyny, calling their female leads "strong women" or tries insulting the potential customers by calling them woman haters/incels im automatically out. Female leads are great but if you have to put emphasis on her just being strong then youve already screwed up, SHOW me she is strong without having to break down those around them. SHOW me a strong female with her CHARACTER. Why has this suddenly become so damn hard for writers? Strong female leads have been around for a very long time so this emphasis on being "progressive" is just turning these leads into a damned joke doing more damage to the female image than any kind of misogynists could ever do. Edit: Alright so ME already is going over this, but what I said still stands personally for me.
I've seen people refer to Sarah Connor and Lara Croft as "Mary Sues", so what is anyone supposed to do if some people have this kind of shitty mentality regardless?
Why ignore the elephant in the room? Men like to watch action movies with kick ass men in them. It's nothing to do with being a misogynist or hating women or even the 'wanting' of a 'genuine' female action hero. I really don't think men sit around thinking "I'd love a convincing kick ass female action hero /strong woman movie". Give me an action movie with a Stallone, an Arnie, a Bruce Willis in it any day etc. That doesn't make you a woman hater, it's genetic, we like our male hero's because as boys we dreamed of being that hero, not being a women. It's about time us men started sticking up for ourselves rather than apologising for who we are. If women want to love women work away, no ones stopping them. But forcing unrealistic 'strong' female characters upon men who want a male action hero, is never ever going to work. Yes every now and then one comes along like Sarah Connor, or Ripley, but we also love the Terminator and the aliens in those movies, it wasn't just all about them even if the story revolved around them. It's about time we started being true to ourselves, woman are encouraged to be so we should too. So call me what you want. I'm gona go watch Commando 🤣
The Descent was a good movie and had an all female cast. They're fleshed out characters with strengths and weaknesses. Juno, for example, is to blame for getting all of them into the situation they find themselves in, but she also has moments where she is absolutely heroic, even though it doesn't fully redeem her.
The accusation of 'misogyny' is particularly galling when aimed at fans of a franchise that already had an amazing female lead with a great character arc in the first 2 movies. That was the moment I decided I wouldn't go to see Dark Fate. Not because of 'misogyny' but because of the fuckwit directing it.
Nothing rubs people wrong like this insistence and constant reassurance in the face of anyone who has legitimate concerns or points. On the topic of Grace, saying "she's so feminine omg isn't she such a WOMAN!?" makes her lack of tits and decidedly K-pop boyband haircut all the *more* obvious and pointed! Great job, this "Pay Attention To Me, But Only The Parts I Decided Were Important" culture is gonna be acid in the eyes of anyone who looks to entertainment for entertainment and not a fucken patronising lecture series on Female Empowerment. These Strong Empowered Women™ are as offensive a caricature of femininity as MuscleHead™ is an offensive caricature of masculinity. Reductive and lazy!
We’re in a dark age of entertainment. Having seen so many golden ages of media in my lifetime this is really depressing. Just another brick in the wall of my cynicism.
nohomers100 Pretty much all I look forward to anymore is Rick and Morty. Melodramatic maybe but you can’t say a lot of the shit coming out as of late leads towards optimism. I’d rather see new original content or adaptations from people who have a vision and give a shit. Obviously I expect too much.
@@RenlangRen Debased? You're talking about a franchise that has had two great movies and everything else associated with it from movies to tv to comics to video games has been mediocre to awful. Again melodramatic.
tl;dr: Anything after Judgement day sucks because there is nobody wanted to tell a compelling Story, there was just that greedy desire to milk the fan base. You nailed it right there.
Usually when they resort to such things, they know the movie sucks. It's always a red flag. People who are confident in their work and believe it will succeed don't go out of their way to insult anybody or discourage people from seeing the movie.
It's a lazy film makers ploy as you say to save face, and money. "people are hating my movie but it's not MY fault. It's becouse they are misogonists! Don't listen to them! Strike a blow for feminism! by putting money in My pocket"
They need to make a clean reboot with a new cast. Make it a HORROR movie like the original for around $50 million. Make it gory and scary and grounded.
Or maybe a TV series focusing on the Future War with Skynet. I feel depicting the future war, watching John Connor form the resistance, and showing the events that lead up to the events of T1 and T2 was always the most logical next step in the franchise.
TheRiff Writer Big budget fanfic. That’s what this film is. When the first trailer dropped, I remember thinking “This looks so cheap and feels so hollow.”
T3: Jhon Connor DIES in the future. T Salvation: Jhon Connor was originally going to DIE and be replaced by a robot. T Genesis: Jhon Connor DIES and becomes an evil robot. T Dark Fate: Jhon Connor DIES at the beginning of the movie. Notice how all of this flops have something in common but Hollywood keeps ignoring it.
The third movie I thought was good though of course I'd pick the 2nd and 1st ones and they had the right idea for the fourth one but there was a lot I wished they would have done differently though showing John's rise too leadership kind of made since
Not to mention T3 as you said he dies in the future so that wouldn’t negate anything about John becoming the savior the humans needed but the the latter 2 movies completely disrespected him
This franchise was driven by three equally strong characters: the indestructible male cyborg who started out as a villain and then became an enlightened hero, the timid female waitress who transforms herself into a warrior in order to save both her son and the future of all humanity, and the lonely child who realizes that the fate of humanity rests entirely on his shoulders. Every Terminator film since T2 completely forgot that this trio was the heart of the entire series and each deserved to fail. I don't know which move was more stupid, egregious and offensive, Genisys turning John Connor into the main villain or Dark Fate killing him off altogether. Everyone really should have quit while they were ahead.
It's ironic that Salvation is the closest we've gotten to a proper continuation. I'll give T3 this, for all the silly faffing about, it ended with a (failed) promise of the movie everyone's wanted. The story of how Skynet's defense grid was smashed and Kyle sent back in time. Our chance to see the payoff for all the effort to keep him alive and prepare him, to tie back into the start of it all. To see that 'future war against the machines' we only got tiny clips of in the first two films. It's clear to me that when the goal was money, no one with sense was leading. Now, with the goal of politics/virtue signaling, the money is irrelevant and so is good writing.
I think it started when Tim Miller said that Mackenzie Davis's terminator would scare masochists and the leak that John Connor would die very early in the movie. When the latter proved to be true, fans of the series tuned out.
I'll be back, after I go and get these new drapes which are to die fooorrrr! The Audience: Damn! What the fu*k happened to you Arnold? Arnold: Well, I got caught banging my Mexican Nanny and Hollyweird says they must turn me into a man bit*h. Audience: Damn well, mission accomplished.
I love midnights edge insightful and thoughtful critiques. But I hate that all my favorite franchises are getting soy-lent with Wokeness. Why are the movies that should be homeruns turn out to be duds. It was a sureshot.
That's the point. They try to sneak their agenda into the established franchises. The greater the audience, the greater the indoctrination. But people, even normies, are getting wise.
007 is going to be a black woman. That's literally all we have left, and they are not only replacing males with females and white people with black people, but both. Bond is my all time favorite franchise. All I had left. And they are taking that away too... The most insulting thing is that none of these woke women actually give a shit about any of these series. Most probably never even watched any of them. But they still take it and turn it into racist sexist garbage, just because they can. Were not black or female, so it's totally fine and nobody cares.
Dark Noble Son it’s insane right you have everything set up for you already all these franchises tank ...Star Wars , Jurassic Park , terminator ...all fucking ruined
@@george-yp1de Cameron could direct a movie about a dog shitting in a park and sell a billion tickets. Look at Avatar- it was basically a story we've all heard a million times yet it made a billion dollars. Titanic? How could a movie about a boat sinking make so much money? Cameron is also known for getting into every aspect of the film, including special effects. If there is something he doesn't like he will invent a new process and make it better. And no, Deadpool was not directed very well by any standard. It looked like a kid fresh out of film school directed it. The only reason that movie sold tickets is because people love Deadpool and they love Ryan Reynolds- as long as it wasn't complete trash it was going to make money.
"...it's not outside the realm of possibility that The Terminator could be revived at some point in the future." Oh god please no. I just want this movie to encourage hollywood to stop reruinmaking fun cool thriller/action movies.
There are a number of reasons why Dark Fate underperformed. First, John Connor was killed early in the movie. Sara mellowed alot. Also, a 64 year old woman is not a physically tough. Older people can suffer injuries, and broken bones easily. In fact, most 60 years old suffer from osteoporosis- brittle bones. Alternate timelines or plots are acceptable to those associated with the Terminator universe not the general public. This Terminator developed a soul, and now, can make independent decisions. The new leader of the resistance is not believeable. The new terminators can't be beaten in hand to hand combat. Also, she is not a computer hacker. How else are you going to beat these guys. Consequently, the resistance would endure consistent heavy losses. Another reason is political correctness. That was a bit of a turnoff, even though I can see the movie getting good reviews. Furthermore, Dark Fate was not targeted to its original audience. Personally, l would have worried if l had to pitch to studio executives. It is too bad the Terminator franchise is finished.
How to create a successful franchise: 1. Create interesting characters that people like 2. Tell interesting stories about those characters 3. Respect and encourage your fans 4. Be patient. It's not rocket science, guys. Authors have been doing this forever.
@@justthisguy1948 The franchise ended at 2. The rest was garbage. The only thing they can do is reboot from scratch, with a believable Terminator. Not sure if possible with Arnold alive.
James Cameron should have directed Linda Hamilton and Edward Furlong battling a bad T800 Arnie. Keep it simple. Instead of these other characters no one cares about..
Boba Fett yep that does sound good. As with Star Wars, any fan with half a brain knows what is required to make these movies great. Instead with Dark Fate you have 100 writers sat in a room to come up with an idea for a story. They came up with Rev 9, Grace, Dani, emasculated T800 and Legion and convinced themselves it was a winner and then actually committed it to film 🤣
They need to pull a Joker on this. A low budget sub-50mil movie. A Reboot, a recast, no extended universe, no plans for a sequel etc. It should be a scifi thriller with maybe one action set piece for the climax. Just cast a B-list strong man as a t-800. Not god damn dwayne johnson or john cena or anyone else with a john in there name
Add to the pile: Outside the MCU, audiences are simply not excited by CGI spectacle. Enough years have passed with EFX pics dominating the release schedules that the viewer has become bored. Terminator: Dark Fate simply wasn't a compelling enough story for the audience to show up. Add to that the tightening of the theatrical-to-streaming window and 4K televisions becoming commonplace, and it becomes very clear that there's a high hurdle for ANY movie to jump, let alone one that is transparently recycling its plot from earlier installments. Millenials have no nostaligia for the older actors. Gen X'ers have been burnt too many times. Divide this further by transparent politics alienating some of the audience and it's easy to see that this film was doomed.
I love Alien3, not as a sequel to Aliens, but as a standalone movie in the alien universe. In my eyes it's the last good alien movie that has that right atmosphere. And the one single xenomorph still feels a threat.
This is far worse than what they did in Aliens 3. This is like killing Ripley in the first two minutes and replacing her with Ed Sheeran as a Trans-gender Mexican woman. Maybe not the best example. But expecting the audience to just run with it, and cursing them out for not liking it, is madness.
@Machine Fack I'll have to research further about this soon. I'm sure they're not trying to enforce losses on movies, but they may be rationalizing the political messaging within movies and willing to suffer losses because insurance will cover. In other words, it's the "cost of doing political business".
So in journalism news, a sports site recently had most of its staff quit. The new owners set down an ultimatum: only publish sports news. The staff, under previous owners had publish vapid listicles, like top 10 funny dog pics or political articles. Progressives will debase themselves publishing clickbait for pennies on the article, but tell them not to put their politics into everything they do and they will self immolate like vietnamese monk. You are dealing with zealots, nothing more.
I think there is someone like George Soros who keeps giving them money. They have to know that 100% of all woke movies fail miserably, yet they keep making them. So I really think theres a conversation happening like "I know every woke movie fails, but we are losing this propaganda war over peoples minds and need more propaganda! So I will not only give you money, but an amount of money that you would have gotten if it was a raging success! Just make it woke and you will make a ton of money."
It's not too difficult to explain. They built their media frenzy on nostalgia. Got Linda back and ignored all the films past T2, got people hyped...then basically announced that they were killing off John Connor right away, literally just after stopping Judgement Day...and that was it. It was over.
*Kills off the glue to the films and attacks the fans* Gee, it sure is a mystery. Also, that one picture at 11:06 is hilarious since it has the more current Wonder Woman on it and people loved that movie. These people, I swear.
They believe "no truth but power." If reality doesn't match their narrative, they will reject reality and substitute their own. Are fans misogynists? No. Doesn't matter, they'll rewrite reality. Did fans hate WW? No. Doesn't matter, they'll rewrite reality.
10:00 You know, when I first heard that Linda Hamilton would return to the Terminator franchise in a movie that ignored all the sequels, I was pumped. Then the details about the films emerged... Thank goodness I didn't waste my money and time watching this dumpster fire.
Even though it may have been a cash-grab, I still appreciate that Terminator Salvation tried to do something different than the usual formula, and of all the sequels outside T2, that's the only one that I would have seen a continuation of. Sarah Connor Chronicles too, but that's outside the movie-realm, and could easily have run parallel to the movie-universe, instead of being cancelled.
I recall showing part of first episode of TSCC to my brother and he just laughed and walked out of the room when he saw the first terminator. I guess this is why good series like this got canceled because most people can't think anyone else but Arnold as the terminator so they didn't even give it a chance.
HOW DARE YOU MAKE LIGHT OF THE TERMINATOR LEGACY!? Huh? How? This movie has been blessed by the master, Cameron, you don’t dare disrespect this movie. It will go on to make $4 trillion at the box office. You have lost your mind, ay?!
To me, what's bad about the sequels is that they piss on the message of the first two movies: "The future is not set. There's no fate but what we make". The new movies by contrast, are fatalistic. No matter what anyone does, Judgment Day will happen one way or another. I think perhaps it's because the first two movies were made in the 80s and early 90s, before all the terrorism and mass shootings started. After Littleton, Columbine and 9/11, I think we lost some of our innocence and hopefulness, and the post-2000 sequels reflect this pessimism that's hung over our nation like a cloud ever since those fateful events.
It went wrong by killing John Connor in the first five minutes, then having the Terminator be a geriatric family man named Carl who runs a carpet company and has a pet dog. Whoever thought those were good ideas should never, ever be allowed to make another movie.
Shoveling money into furnaces by cramming as much pointless cg explosions and robots and lazers as possible is the anchor that doomed the profitability of these last few movies. It's like the makers didn't even watch the first two movies to understand what worked and how little lazers were needed to tell a decent story!
@@jumpboy29 Genisys is also recognized as a piece of crap by Terminator fans. This was the next chapter after T2 so yes this does matter. That's still does not address the larger issue of feminist headhunting male iconic heroes. WTF was that crap with Jake Skywalker?
Yeah I lost interest when the access media and Miller started attacking people early on as a preemptive strike and/or to build hype. Alienate half the country? Dont be pissed when the keep their money in their pocket. Many of us are sick and tired of SJWs and the PC culture
Same is said of franchises like Star Wars. I wasnt happy at all with how they depicted and treated the character of Han Solo in TFA, but I soldiered on. I really didnt like TLJ for too many reasons to list, but I most likely would have gone to Solo and Episode 9 (now ROS) anyway as a 52 yr old life long fan. But with the way Rian Johnson, Chuck Wendig, and other Lucasfilm executives and creative people, and access media treated the fans who had legitimate beefs with the storytelling, lack of character development, and other criticisms of the movies, and used the usual 'ist's and 'phobes slurs...Star Wars was dead to me. I didnt see Solo, and I wont be seeing ROS. Hollywood, and those elitist rich pricks can suck a bag of dicks. Just because they treated women like dirt for decades and got caught up in #metoo...doesn't mean I have to pay for it.
I think what often gets over looked is that T2 was a technical wonder of its age. The CGI was new and astounding, and one of the big draw cards for that movie. It helped that the story itself was coherent and emotionally engaging, but fundamentally it was a fair Sci-Fi movie with real world technological break through. I put Avatar in a similar category, in that, it was one of the first 3D blockbuster movies, and as such it was that 3D element that was an extra draw, certainly for me. In that case the Sci-Fi wasn't very good, and the idea of any sequel to it holds no interest for me what so ever. Since then the previous T3 story was okay, and I felt it made sense with regards to the in story problem of attempting to defeat an AI. The people who played it were less likable and but it was okay as a movie. After that they couldn't get their Sci-Fi hat to set right on their heads and it became a mess. Just like Bladerunner, T1, and T2 were stories of their time. We know, in general, much more about the possible outcomes of technology now than we did in the 80's. As one off's T1 and T2 could make some small sense. The moment you try to push it any further the wheels come of the technological wagon, as there are so many ways an advanced AI could interfere with humanity and guarantee it's own survival that sending single advanced weapons back in time just doesn't make any sense at all. That's why for me the Bladerunner 2049 failed as a movie because the whole premise of the movie didn't make any sense any more. The whole situation should have been systematically avoided and the direction they took implied humanity was just stupid. Dark Fate simply ignores what a clever intelligence will do with technological power and the ability to adapt. In trying to do a story reset, it's basically failing to say anything worth saying at all. Given it's based on a new AI occurring, surely people would have learnt that repeating the same strategy will end up with the same results? Adding a political agenda made an unlikely story into an actively repellent one. In contrast, I watched Joker because it seemed it was going to tell an interesting story, about an interesting character, and tell it well. That was indeed my experience of it. I don't intend to become the Joker nor do I feel the need to explain why I'm not going to become the Joker. It's a fantasy so there's no basis for it to make a difference to my reality. On top of this, because of the heavy handed and accusatory story telling in modern works, I simply won't see any new movies unless I get some conformation ahead of time, from like minded reviewers, that the story is worth my time. I'm simply not going to see a movie whose intent is to lecture me as if I'm a strawman guilty of all the wrongs of the current world. What they are depicting is a societal lack of empathy for being a human male. They are attempting to validate an assertion that people like me aren't worth anything. That is not just abhorrent, it's down right dangerous if history is to be the guide. With regards to the current state of Sci-Fi, people making movies seem to have forgotten that if you set up a scenario, it has to at least be plausible. Plastering it with CGI doesn't make a good story. CGI is there to service a good story. It's through a good Sci-Fi story that interesting themes in the modern world can be examined. That does raise the bar required for the story telling pretty high (apparently). Unless they get their acts together and focus on coherent stories first with an eye on what we currently understand about technology, they won't be able to use it for any purpose at all because the movies they make simply won't be worth watching. Ignoring the story for the sake of installing a messaged agenda will simply kill whatever story that process is applied to. If I were to project a little it seems to me that a group of the current story tellers think they can directly shape society by inserting their pet worldviews into their projects. They might even be able to do so, if they created engaging stories to begin with. They don't seem to want to try to do that though, they seem to think their agendas are a desirable outcomes in of themselves. I don't think people actually agree with that, bar a very small minority, who aren't interested in Sci-Fi anyway. I do hope this era of Sci-Fi stories will be over soon, although it seems many old franchises will be lost in the process.
TDF failed because it never should have been made. James Cameron would have made his own Terminator 3 movie back in the 1990's if he hadn't ended the story with T2. The story of John Connor as the resistance leader might have been doable, but Terminator Salvation screwed that up. Even if TDF hadn't killed off John Connor, it still would have meant that Terminator and T2 would have to be retconned, but killing off John Connor and replacing him with a generic teenage girl was just a big FU to fans of the original two movies and required an even greater, and more ridiculous retcon.
Check and see if the production was insured, for how much, and who're the beneficiaries. The only ways "forward" are to let it sit for a decade and remake it, or make a series about the resistance.
Terminator Salvation was the terminator movie we always wanted. It had a lot going for it except arguably the most important: a compelling theme to go along and make us care. Why can't Hollywood just execute right... Ugh
What if.. James Cameron PURPOSEFULLY influenced the script so it would be a flop. The value of Terminator drops and he can buy it back dirt cheap and have all the rights again to himself? Then he can go on and create a real McCoy sequel.
My canon is T1, T2, TSCC. Although will never know how the story will end since the show got canceled on a damm cliffhanger. Still not over that one. 😞
Seeing the kid John die in the first few minutes is sad, but Dark Fate at least acknowledged T2 happened by showing John Connor as we remember. Genysis treats T1 and T2 events as non-canon.
I wanted so much to love this movie. I'd been waiting for it like an expectant papa since I saw the teaser, RIAYA feat.John Mark McMillan be damned. After 6 viewings (Woo Regal Unlimited!), the disappointment has worn off and what really hurts is seeing how it could have been great. With a few exceptions, the shot construction and filmography are wonderful; acting, too. The scene at the Laredo house when Dani comforts Sarah by the tire swing is /haunting/. I don't think I've ever seen someone too sad to cry before. I loved Grace's duel with the REV-9 in the Mexico City plant every time. The score was right on point from soup to nuts. Even the Godawful script had a few brushes with greatness. There was almost poignant symbolism in Dani's switch from bouquets of flowers to bags of potato chips. Arnie had some lines that were absolutely side-splitting, without being silly or distracting. They almost told a story about the Erinyes appearing to restore justice to a broken world. They almost told a story about a sequence of potential future AIs that accidentally made robot assassins so human that they became humane. Sadly, Midnight's Edge shot the nail in the head. The problem with T:DF that no fan edit can ever fix is that the script told no story at all. Dark Fate's tale is a ransom note made from pieces cut out of T1 & T2 and haphazardly glued onto a one hundred ninety million-dollar bill. Also, there were a surprising number of people named Zoltan involved the the production, and Carl definitely gruesomely murdered Alicia's husband, which might be the most frightening thing in the entire film.
It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead and after you're dead it will raise a family call itself Carl and specialize in drapes.
That was fascinating, I had no idea of the history behind the Terminator rights being passed around like a hot potato, then again I stopped watching after Terminator 2. Thanks for the informative vid Midnight's Edge
![Terminator Dark Fate: Why John Connor's [SPOILER] Ruined EVERYTHING In The Franchise | ANGRY RANT](/img/n.gif)
Hollywood needs to learn that insulting the built in audience is never a good idea.
vincent207 this is exactly why will not be watching it. I understand the need to build in a new generation, but not at the cost of the original fans. I am 100% cool with a female lead. Just don’t cram woke culture down my throat.
vincent207 this will not happen... lots of egos.
And it's a waste of money spent. When you buy a franchise, you're buying the audience too. You literally had a consumer base just waiting to be sold stuff to and the suits thought that instead of growing that proven base that it would be better to drive them away and hope a new one pops up that they found more palatable for their mindset.
“I’d like to play my latest chart topper.
‘Me fans are stupid pigs’”.
I think Tim Miller was more addressing a particularly loathesome swathe of Internet culture rather than specifically Terminator fans. However, not addressing legitimate fan concerns in favor of lashing out at "misogynists" is still not a great idea.
They'll never learn that insulting the audience doesn't get butts into seats.
@Fuzzy McBabyHead Then maybe they should stay off of social media. These are just mean words on the internet, they can't hurt you until you let them. It's called being a professional and an adult. I work in the entertainment industry as well and I've seen countless insults towards projects I've been working on. All I do is check them from time to time to see if there's any legitimate complaints and ignore the rest of the pointless haterd from retards who don't have anything constructive to say.
Jenn I find it staggering that they’re so angry with us old white guys who’s interest and money has kept these franchises alive by reading the books and buying the games and so on.
That director is a complete idiot.
@PerrySport your comment did not age well,lol.
@PerrySport the company that did the CGI for Sonic has closed down shortly after the redesign
I'm tired of Hollywood trying to "subvert expectations."
I’m tired of Hollywood.
I don't mind expectations being subverted so long as it's done in a manner that's intelligent and understands the material that it's working with - the problem here is that the writers don't even really understand what it is they are subverting in the first place.
It’s a lazy way to appear “clever.”
I expect a good film. Call me old fashioned.
Didn't subvert mine. I knew it was going to suck.
I love subverting Hollywood's expectation of me giving them money.
Ohh nice one
Fun fact: Arnold Schwarzenegger has officially gone back in time more times than Michael J Fox
But not as many as Benedict Cumberpatch?
@@stsr11 IT'S BENSLICK CUNDERPANTS!
@@remlapwastaken8857 I thought it was Cumberbun Thunderpatch?
DemonTeddy bear
Bravo sir,well said
We don't need 14,000,605 more Terminator movies.
Terminator: Dark Fate certainly did “scare the f- out” of someone, unfortunately that was the investors.
Unfortunately..??
Denji2006 he meant "unfortunately" for Paramount, Skydance and Disney/Fox
And a bunch of beta boys apparently. "The poster has THREE WOMEN on it! GO WOKE GO BROKE!"
I guess the film should have came with a trigger warning for frail male egos.
@@nathandavis1742 "a trigger warning for frail male egos",, LOL
An old granny, a lesbo and a mexican't walk into a bar... is the beginning of a bad joke, not a storyline for a feature film.
@@KardboardKenny Yeah, this is about at the level most of the criticism is online for this film. Haters gonna hate. Plenty of things wrong with the film, but too woke it is not.
"Terminator: Sega Genesis" LOL, I couldn't tell if that was on purpose or not, but I chuckled a little bit regardless.
How could it NOT be on purpose?
I lost it🤣 Nearly choked on my lollipop Just now😭
Definitely on purpose and funny as Hell!!!🤣😅😂
The Sega Terminator games were pretty good for their time
Judgment day Does what Genesis Dont.
Meanwhile, Joker is dancing through 1 billion any moment now.
This shows there's not only a market, but a hunger for good, non-gynocentric movies. Let's hope someone is listening.
Luckily there are still a few good testosterone-driven action franchises, like John Wick and Gerard Butler's Fallen trilogy.
Coming from the future and bringing good tiddings: yes, The Joker has danced through the 1 billion like an Irish tap-dancer on speed. And the gyno-fascists don't like it... one bit!
I also brought back a ticket for the new Charlie's Angels and would be willing to part with it for, say, 50 cents? Or a half-smoked cigarette... gotta be flexible in the future....
HL?
Being an old white male I take full credit for this failure..
You're Welcome
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
This movie wasn't made for me, so I don't have any right to give my opinion on it ... so I didn't bother seeing it.
someone blame me, too, i need my daily emasculation!
Can't let you take all the blame 🤣
TY sir.
for doing this.
im also a white male but form mexico and the emasculation of guilt doesnt work on us.
and i have many friends that say the same thing.
1. Franchise built on protecting John Connor, the savior of the human race.
2. Killed John Connor in the opening sequence.
-Done
@Mi Ke Nope, skynet actually dead. Dont tell me all AI is the same. even there is new guy rule the europe like Hitler in the future, hes not Hitler himself.
Connor's death alone killed off this movie for me. It's a complete betrayal of the first two movies.
yup i didn't really pay attention after that point in the movie
It's an abomination.
who said, its done?
It shows how bad Hollywood movies are now that people are now going “maybeTerminator 3 and Salvation weren’t all half bad”
John Smith T3 was never bad. Just unnecessary and initially not well received by fans and critics, who both just couldn’t see the good qualities of the movie like the great ending and cool action sequences and special effects.
@@saxopio6280 t3 was a parody of t2, you just have to pay attention, even the fight scenes were done for laughs
I've been saying the same thing about "X-Men 3: The last stand", with every redundant and repetitive MCU film.
Conor Nordenstam - I’m aware of that, and to piggyback on what you said, most of the scenes and plot points in the first 2/3 of T3 were almost a direct copy of T2. However, it is still an entertaining movie and has a very good ending of its own. So much so, I still watch it when it comes on TV. Matter fact, I still watch all the first 3 films in the franchise.
Right? I had no desire to watch T3 or T4 but now I'm like.... How bad were those? Certainly not this bad
"She's tough but very feminine"
Literally slenderman with a blonde bowl cut.
The moment I saw the character design, I knew it'd be shittier than expected.
"What went so wrong?"
Short answer; not understanding the source material and relying too much on action and brand recognition (i.e. lazy filmmaking 101).
What source material? T1 and T2 were basically stand alone films with no real fleshed out lore. They just added in what fit the story at the time.
Its not like they had book or games to ignore. This is worse because they had much more freedom to make a good film without being restricted to source material.
It's lazy writing too. This is almost exactly the same as the original Terminator
Seems like shoehorning in aggressive feminism and current year feminism was more important than writing a compelling story.
Not to mention flat out stealing the plot of terminator 2 and slapping a female protagonist on it, becaue WOKE.
From what I gather this film seems like it can't decide whether it wants to be a Halloween 2018 or an "event blockbuster" (think new Jurassic Parks, Disney Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Disney live-action remakes). But it definitely can't be as bad as Genisys.
So, the lessons we learned today:
- Don't make something for the sake of making it; have some kind of goal in mind.
- Don't insult the crowd that will ultimately pay your bills; that is failure waiting to happen. Even if you're doing something that will ultimately be unpopular, calling those who believe you to be doing wrong to be in the wrong just makes things worse. TL;DR: Don't Straw-man if you feel Straw-maned.
- There is nothing subversive about saying and doing what is constantly being said and done; Some would say that at this point, playing tropes straight would actually be more surprising.
A combination of things went wrong, killing john connor early on was one of them(the leaks mentioned that months ago)which had me worried about the direction this film was going. The director said some silly things about men being scared of the strong women in this film(whatever that means). We also had some terrible recent terminator movies which has killed a lot of peoples enthusiasm for this film. And to cap it all off, they went the girl power route with all 3 main characters female(not the direction i would have taken for a movie that has a male dominated fanbase).
Bit of a mess really.
Edit, i typed this before i watched the vid, you pretty much said what i posted.
Before all those things, it still would have failed because of the previous 3 movies. Audiences aren't as stupid as the studios think they are and they can recognize a pattern. Hell, seems like most of the reboots and decades-later sequels have flopped for the past ten years (remember all those reboots of 80s slasher movies where Halloween was the only to get a sequel?) Everything you listed just alienated the few remaining loyalists who would have slightly propped up the movie.
Yes because we all really disliked the strong woman in the first two movies!! Tim Miller is revealed as a total idiot for saying that.
Just can't beat Robert Patrick! I dunno what the hell this was. I understand Linda Hamilton. Not the rest though.
The director said Grace was feminine. We obviously do not have the same definition of feminine.
I agree with the fan base part. Males have no problems with good, well written female protagonists, ie. Ripley from Alien and Aliens and Sarah Conner with the first two Terminators. With that said, the action movie genre fanbase is traditionally male. You need to cater to your fanbase, because I haven't seen any romantic comedies made cater to males and be quasi insulting to females yet.
I have three teenage daughters, not once have I heard them express any interest in any of the "newer" Terminator movies. I was 14 when Terminator 2 came out. Every teenage male went and watched that movie usually more than once.
Hollywood is so wrapped up into their own weird ideologies and agendas, they forgot that people just want to be entertained. We want to escape normal everyday life for a few hours and live vicariously through heroes on the screen. We don't want agendas, identity politics, or political messages. We want a hero, that overcomes adversity to defeat a great villian. This isn't rocket science.
I would argue this was even worse than Alien 3, after all Aliens and the Alien franchise didn't revolve around Newt, but the Terminator franchise *did* revolve around John Connor.
Agreed. Also, Alien 3 didn't kill Newt and Hicks to push an agenda, they just didn't fit in with 5he story they wanted to give Ripley. That was all Sigourney Weaver input.
Alien 3 is amazing, the best of the Alien films imho. Watch the assembly cut
@@jamiebraswell5520 It mainly happened because the original set burned down early in production and they had to pick up the pieces and rewrite everything to actually get the film out, so its amazing it turned out as well as it did.
Alien 3 was good tho
@@j.d.buchanan4897 , I like the Producer's Cut of Alien 3, but that isn't the point of the discussion. The point is that killing off Newt and Hicks like that had a huge negative backlash that the movie had never been able to shake off. James Cameron criticized the decision, yet now basically does the same thing to John Connor, yet again having a huge negative backlash.
Back to Alien 3, the idea to kill off Newt and Hicks off screen was already a part of the Vincent Ward version that had been green lit by the studio initially. The hilarious script by Eric Red killed them off screen too, along with Ripley. Killing them wasn't just an idea David Fincher had, but had been floated around for quite some time.
It's funny that Tim Miller referred to Grace as "very feminine" when he made her an androgynous chick.
Skewed perceptions. That's not the general societal perception of a feminine appearance or traits. At least before the "woke" people made being a feminine woman sound like a mortal sin.
Exactly, Cameron as portrayed by Summer Glau in Sarah Connor Chronicles is what I would call “very feminine”, and Summer Glau was the major reason I watched the tv series, she was hot! Can’t say the same for Grace, I’m sure the lesbian community would find her attractive.
She looked like Dylan Roof, that’s NOT a good thing
@@Bohemian0522 The only people who don't like Cameron seem to be the people running the franchise. As popular as she is with the fans who are familiar with her, you'd think they'd at least try to copy that same formula again with a new character, even if rights issues prevent them from bringing Cameron back.
What’s especially hilarious to me is that during Terminator Salvations production an early version of the script was leaked online. Which revealed that they planned to have John Connor killed partway into the movie and have another character basically take his place.
The big twist of the movie was going to be that John Connor was never the hero, it was actually someone else who took the name and identity of John Conner after he died that would become the real hero of mankind. Naturally fans were pissed when they learned about this and made an enormous outcry against the movie and the creators were forced to change the script so John Connor wasn’t killed off and he did become the savior of man.
Welp.....so much for that.....
simple answer: they just need to stop making Terminator movies
azn1011 that won’t happen... it’s a cash cow.
5... 10 years later... you’ll see another. hopefully, someone does it right.
Agree 100%
@@HTx78 Considering the every movie after T2 has been on a downward trend, I don't think anyone can call it a cash cow anymore. Audiences know the brand, but they also know a Terminator movie after T2 equals a crap movie.
@@HTx78 yeah except it's a "cash cow" that doesn't make money. how many times do Terminator films need to bomb before Hollywood gets the picture?
azn1011 they can continue these movies as long as they are good. Same goes with any other franchise out there. They made a mistake by releasing this movie overseas a week before it was released in the US. Most people knew that they killed John Conner during the first 3 minutes of this movie. Also, the people who make these films and these actors need to STFU about their politics or this will continue to happen! Next movie to underwhelm the box office: Soy Wars Episode 9
>short hair
>square jaw
>flat chest
"very feminine" WHAT?!?
look her up in other roles where she looks and acts a lot better
I see boys that don't even try to look femme, look like Princess Peach next to this birch cyborg. And yes I meant birch because she's pale and wiry!
@@testaccount8921 that would make the director's comments even worse because then they DID remove her feminine aspects for this role and the entire point of his comment is wrong
@@Xanlet no doubt, his stupidity is obvious
C'mon guys the actress who played grace was actually pretty good! No that I'm defending the movie.. it can burn in hell right next to that HACK tim miller.
Thank you for the comment about the "Sarah Connor Chronicles". Not only did it feel more like the 'true' successor to T2, it also dealt with some 'high concept' sci-fi, such as the consequences of Time Travel, and what were the true motives of the Artificial Intelligence(s) involved in the show (Skynet had a rival, although I can't recall its name).
Personally, I don't know if the 'Get Woke, Go Broke' thing entirely applies, here. Hell, Cameron pretty much created the genre cliche of "Action Girl" in movies, thanks to Sarah Connor and Ripley. If any movie should be expected to have strong women in it, its a Terminator (or Cameron helmed "Alien') movie. The movies failure had more to do with not respecting what made the franchise popular in the first place, and simple bad writing.
Was the Turk or something like that I think.
I think killing off john connor was what killed it, I mean even terminator salvation treated him respectfully.
There were a couple of different AI in the show, but I think you mean John Henry, the anti-skynet AI created by a rebellious, readheaded T1001 right near the end of season 2, using the body of the main hunter Terminator from season 1. An idea I loved, because it shows there's more to the future war than just 'single human general beats AI, AI tries to cheat'
They will blame wahmen and pretty soon a female lead will be unheard of because "women leads are just don't make money, we tried it in the 2020's " not bad script = nobody interested. Mad max was feminist as fuck and was great and critically acclaimed. Shit studios
Tim Miller is a widely disliked person. I'm in post production, and have been told personally how toxic Miller is. Safe to say, he gets the outcome he deserves.
I will never consider watching anything from Tim Miller again after his attacking fans. These idiots want to do that, then I will go out of my way to never again support them. I am tired if their bullshit.
@Turdminator Dark Shite You'd think they'd learn from Ghostbusters 2016 which is running on near almost 4 years ago.
BUT I GUESS NOT.
I’m glad he got fired from Deadpool 2
Whilst I agree with his point of view regarding the low-ball budget, I'm certain he made his case in an appalling way, which was the real reason for his firing.
I'm glad it happened, although knocking him down a peg or two, had little effect on his demeanour.
Maybe that's why DEADPOOL's opening credits referred to him as "Some Douchebag" and "An Overpaid Tool".
I won't even download this illegaly
LMAO That says something. This movie was really just a rehash of plots.
I thought about it but was like.....nah
I picked the shitty "Obsessed" movie Beyonce was terrible in, over this.
Really though I haven't watched a Terminator since the 3rd one with Skynet, I rolled my eyes too many times with that one for the rest of the franchise.
Everyone is asking the question of why it flopped lol we know why; THEY KILLED JOHN CONNOR. I believe we all were waiting for the FUTURE WAR!
Exactly! !!!!!!!!! As simple as that!!
As for myself when I first saw the first Terminator movie with its epic future war scene the future war is something I really wanted to see and just about everyone else for that matter.
Nope - the wahmen promo poster killed it. People who haven't seen the movie wouldn't even know John Connor gets killed - but that poster tells them everything they need to know about the plot and the agenda of the film makers.
It's not THAT they killed JC but rather WHY.
The answer was so they could turn it into yet another gynocentric clap trap like all the other SJW bombs.
@@brickmissing8295 People also forget that this is following on directly from Genysis which also flopped. But yes, the poster already immediately tells you that it's not your dad's terminator. And usually that's code for we're shitting all over this franchise and beating you over the head with current year propaganda. Yeah, no thanks. You can shove that up your ass - whether you're Terminator, Star Wars, Marvel, DC - i don't care.
For me, as soon as someone brings up misogyny, calling their female leads "strong women" or tries insulting the potential customers by calling them woman haters/incels im automatically out. Female leads are great but if you have to put emphasis on her just being strong then youve already screwed up, SHOW me she is strong without having to break down those around them. SHOW me a strong female with her CHARACTER. Why has this suddenly become so damn hard for writers? Strong female leads have been around for a very long time so this emphasis on being "progressive" is just turning these leads into a damned joke doing more damage to the female image than any kind of misogynists could ever do.
Edit: Alright so ME already is going over this, but what I said still stands personally for me.
I've seen people refer to Sarah Connor and Lara Croft as "Mary Sues", so what is anyone supposed to do if some people have this kind of shitty mentality regardless?
Why ignore the elephant in the room? Men like to watch action movies with kick ass men in them. It's nothing to do with being a misogynist or hating women or even the 'wanting' of a 'genuine' female action hero. I really don't think men sit around thinking "I'd love a convincing kick ass female action hero /strong woman movie". Give me an action movie with a Stallone, an Arnie, a Bruce Willis in it any day etc. That doesn't make you a woman hater, it's genetic, we like our male hero's because as boys we dreamed of being that hero, not being a women. It's about time us men started sticking up for ourselves rather than apologising for who we are. If women want to love women work away, no ones stopping them. But forcing unrealistic 'strong' female characters upon men who want a male action hero, is never ever going to work. Yes every now and then one comes along like Sarah Connor, or Ripley, but we also love the Terminator and the aliens in those movies, it wasn't just all about them even if the story revolved around them. It's about time we started being true to ourselves, woman are encouraged to be so we should too. So call me what you want. I'm gona go watch Commando 🤣
The Descent was a good movie and had an all female cast. They're fleshed out characters with strengths and weaknesses. Juno, for example, is to blame for getting all of them into the situation they find themselves in, but she also has moments where she is absolutely heroic, even though it doesn't fully redeem her.
The accusation of 'misogyny' is particularly galling when aimed at fans of a franchise that already had an amazing female lead with a great character arc in the first 2 movies.
That was the moment I decided I wouldn't go to see Dark Fate.
Not because of 'misogyny' but because of the fuckwit directing it.
Nothing rubs people wrong like this insistence and constant reassurance in the face of anyone who has legitimate concerns or points. On the topic of Grace, saying "she's so feminine omg isn't she such a WOMAN!?" makes her lack of tits and decidedly K-pop boyband haircut all the *more* obvious and pointed! Great job, this "Pay Attention To Me, But Only The Parts I Decided Were Important" culture is gonna be acid in the eyes of anyone who looks to entertainment for entertainment and not a fucken patronising lecture series on Female Empowerment. These Strong Empowered Women™ are as offensive a caricature of femininity as MuscleHead™ is an offensive caricature of masculinity. Reductive and lazy!
We’re in a dark age of entertainment. Having seen so many golden ages of media in my lifetime this is really depressing. Just another brick in the wall of my cynicism.
A dark age? Really? A tad melodramatic dont you think?
nohomers, if you see beloved franchise after franchise debased, it feels like a fair assessment.
nohomers100 Pretty much all I look forward to anymore is Rick and Morty. Melodramatic maybe but you can’t say a lot of the shit coming out as of late leads towards optimism. I’d rather see new original content or adaptations from people who have a vision and give a shit. Obviously I expect too much.
@@RenlangRen Debased? You're talking about a franchise that has had two great movies and everything else associated with it from movies to tv to comics to video games has been mediocre to awful. Again melodramatic.
The woke age of entertainment
Has Kathy offered Timmy a Star Wars trilogy yet? 😄
She's calling him right now.
Shhh! Don't give her any ideas!
@@Rusty_Shackleford099 It won't. Star Wars is a MUCH bigger name than Terminator and its name hasn't been tarnished anywhere near as badly.
When it happen. Star wars is dead.
lol
“Terminator Dark Fate”? More like “ Dark Fate of Terminator”
Tim Miller filmed Dark Fate in Europe because Mexico is too dangerous. Yet he takes a dig at border security.
fredo1070 the irony is not lost...
@@DarkNobleSon He admitted he was scared mexiconewsdaily.com/news/terminator-filmed-in-spain-due-to-insecurity-in-mexico-city/
fredo1070 Miller is a leftist hypocrite, so this isn’t a surprise.
Meh, the recent Rambo movie did something similar for the same reason. No big productions film in Mexico these days it seems.
Didn’t know that
They claim they are trying to "subvert expectations" which is just an excuse for not having a clue.
It's as if the movie was written by Brian Griffin.
tl;dr: Anything after Judgement day sucks because there is nobody wanted to tell a compelling Story, there was just that greedy desire to milk the fan base. You nailed it right there.
Mistake #1 The Wamenator Poster.
Mistake #2 Tim Miller's comment about Mysoginists.
Usually when they resort to such things, they know the movie sucks. It's always a red flag.
People who are confident in their work and believe it will succeed don't go out of their way to insult anybody or discourage people from seeing the movie.
Mistake #3 Making any further Terminator movies past T2.
It's a lazy film makers ploy as you say to save face, and money. "people are hating my movie but it's not MY fault. It's becouse they are misogonists! Don't listen to them! Strike a blow for feminism! by putting money in My pocket"
They need to make a clean reboot with a new cast. Make it a HORROR movie like the original for around $50 million. Make it gory and scary and grounded.
Nope...should have ended at #2
Or maybe a TV series focusing on the Future War with Skynet. I feel depicting the future war, watching John Connor form the resistance, and showing the events that lead up to the events of T1 and T2 was always the most logical next step in the franchise.
Wrong. Future war is the only path. Anything else is a rehash
Natural Born Film Critic I mean hell if they did do a future war tv show they could show the progress of the terminator infiltration units
@@willt3223 The story in Dark Fate is also a perfect way of continuing the lore.
Out of all these recent essays there's something nobody's mentioned: the look. It really does look like a fan made, camcorder film.
TheRiff Writer Big budget fanfic. That’s what this film is. When the first trailer dropped, I remember thinking “This looks so cheap and feels so hollow.”
@@tajcee forealz
T3: Jhon Connor DIES in the future.
T Salvation: Jhon Connor was originally going to DIE and be replaced by a robot.
T Genesis: Jhon Connor DIES and becomes an evil robot.
T Dark Fate: Jhon Connor DIES at the beginning of the movie.
Notice how all of this flops have something in common but Hollywood keeps ignoring it.
John*
The third movie I thought was good though of course I'd pick the 2nd and 1st ones and they had the right idea for the fourth one but there was a lot I wished they would have done differently though showing John's rise too leadership kind of made since
Salvation thankfully changed it.
Not to mention T3 as you said he dies in the future so that wouldn’t negate anything about John becoming the savior the humans needed but the the latter 2 movies completely disrespected him
Hollywood: Terminator: Dark Fate
Everyone: Stop! Stop! It's already dead!
Judgment Day made me cry. That is something Dark Fate could never make me do.
Lots of people are crying. Their franchise just died.
@@GrubbJunker died a long time ago. They were trying to ride a rotting horse carcass
I understood that reference!
Ni. It did made me cry... Just not like T2. For a much different reason...
This franchise was driven by three equally strong characters: the indestructible male cyborg who started out as a villain and then became an enlightened hero, the timid female waitress who transforms herself into a warrior in order to save both her son and the future of all humanity, and the lonely child who realizes that the fate of humanity rests entirely on his shoulders. Every Terminator film since T2 completely forgot that this trio was the heart of the entire series and each deserved to fail. I don't know which move was more stupid, egregious and offensive, Genisys turning John Connor into the main villain or Dark Fate killing him off altogether. Everyone really should have quit while they were ahead.
It's ironic that Salvation is the closest we've gotten to a proper continuation. I'll give T3 this, for all the silly faffing about, it ended with a (failed) promise of the movie everyone's wanted. The story of how Skynet's defense grid was smashed and Kyle sent back in time. Our chance to see the payoff for all the effort to keep him alive and prepare him, to tie back into the start of it all. To see that 'future war against the machines' we only got tiny clips of in the first two films. It's clear to me that when the goal was money, no one with sense was leading. Now, with the goal of politics/virtue signaling, the money is irrelevant and so is good writing.
I think it started when Tim Miller said that Mackenzie Davis's terminator would scare masochists and the leak that John Connor would die very early in the movie.
When the latter proved to be true, fans of the series tuned out.
I was out when Miller opened his woke mouth.
That promo shot of the androgynous giraffe and the Mexican border alerted the woke-dar in the fanbase
it's almost as if they don't want people to show up
Pretty sure masochists would love her character actually
@@duckyTV IKR
Terminator: Gender Studies
It failed.
Terminator: Orange Man Bad
I'll be back, after I go and get these new drapes which are to die fooorrrr! The Audience: Damn! What the fu*k happened to you Arnold? Arnold: Well, I got caught banging my Mexican Nanny and Hollyweird says they must turn me into a man bit*h. Audience: Damn well, mission accomplished.
I love midnights edge insightful and thoughtful critiques. But I hate that all my favorite franchises are getting soy-lent with Wokeness. Why are the movies that should be homeruns turn out to be duds. It was a sureshot.
That's the point. They try to sneak their agenda into the established franchises. The greater the audience, the greater the indoctrination. But people, even normies, are getting wise.
True true. Their arrogance and size of their egos thinking people will eat any shit they poop out is aweinspiring
007 is going to be a black woman. That's literally all we have left, and they are not only replacing males with females and white people with black people, but both. Bond is my all time favorite franchise. All I had left. And they are taking that away too... The most insulting thing is that none of these woke women actually give a shit about any of these series. Most probably never even watched any of them. But they still take it and turn it into racist sexist garbage, just because they can. Were not black or female, so it's totally fine and nobody cares.
....
You think that there is a good Terminator 2 sequel in any reality?
4 friggin' attempts.
Dark Noble Son it’s insane right you have everything set up for you already all these franchises tank ...Star Wars , Jurassic Park , terminator ...all fucking ruined
Tim Miller the director of Deadpool, the one & only Highlight of his career.
Ryan Reynolds is the reason Deadpool was good
I heard Tim Miller is a pain in the ass to work with. Which is why he did not direct Deadpool 2.
why you shit talkin miller cameron made this shit
@@george-yp1de Cameron could direct a movie about a dog shitting in a park and sell a billion tickets. Look at Avatar- it was basically a story we've all heard a million times yet it made a billion dollars. Titanic? How could a movie about a boat sinking make so much money? Cameron is also known for getting into every aspect of the film, including special effects. If there is something he doesn't like he will invent a new process and make it better.
And no, Deadpool was not directed very well by any standard. It looked like a kid fresh out of film school directed it. The only reason that movie sold tickets is because people love Deadpool and they love Ryan Reynolds- as long as it wasn't complete trash it was going to make money.
"...it's not outside the realm of possibility that The Terminator could be revived at some point in the future." Oh god please no. I just want this movie to encourage hollywood to stop reruinmaking fun cool thriller/action movies.
There are a number of reasons why Dark Fate underperformed. First, John Connor was killed early in the movie. Sara mellowed alot. Also, a 64 year old woman is not a physically tough. Older people can suffer injuries, and broken bones easily. In fact, most 60 years old suffer from osteoporosis- brittle bones. Alternate timelines or plots are acceptable to those associated with the Terminator universe not the general public. This Terminator developed a soul, and now, can make independent decisions. The new leader of the resistance is not believeable. The new terminators can't be beaten in hand to hand combat. Also, she is not a computer hacker. How else are you going to beat these guys. Consequently, the resistance would endure consistent heavy losses. Another reason is political correctness. That was a bit of a turnoff, even though I can see the movie getting good reviews. Furthermore, Dark Fate was not targeted to its original audience. Personally, l would have worried if l had to pitch to studio executives. It is too bad the Terminator franchise is finished.
@@ericthiem3416 It's not too bad it's finished because Terminator should never have been a franchise in the first place.
How to create a successful franchise:
1. Create interesting characters that people like
2. Tell interesting stories about those characters
3. Respect and encourage your fans
4. Be patient.
It's not rocket science, guys. Authors have been doing this forever.
And playwrights before them, and storytellers before them, back unto the beginning.
"Terminator Sega Genesis" - LOL!
@Sean Phelan
Oh so you heard that too. Because when I heard that I did a double take just to make sure I wasn't hearing things.
T3 and everything that came after it is how it all went "so wrong."
I can't get enough of basking in this movies failure
MatticusFinch1820 for me it’s the opposite I mourn for the great franchise it could have been
@@justthisguy1948 The franchise ended at 2. The rest was garbage. The only thing they can do is reboot from scratch, with a believable Terminator. Not sure if possible with Arnold alive.
Ikr? This is like the 15th video shitting on Woke Fate that I've seen.
Me too!
Christmas came early for me. Joy to the world, this SJW bullshit movie is dead.
Final proof the "series" should've ended at 2
James Cameron should have directed Linda Hamilton and Edward Furlong battling a bad T800 Arnie. Keep it simple. Instead of these other characters no one cares about..
Good Arnold vs bad Arnold would be cool if done properly
Sounds cheesy.
Darren L same for Star Wars. Killing off Luke the way they did while keeping character NO ONE cares about? Just stupid!
Boba Fett yep that does sound good. As with Star Wars, any fan with half a brain knows what is required to make these movies great. Instead with Dark Fate you have 100 writers sat in a room to come up with an idea for a story. They came up with Rev 9, Grace, Dani, emasculated T800 and Legion and convinced themselves it was a winner and then actually committed it to film 🤣
Looks like Linda Hamilton just pulled a Mark Hamil.
Who is the next iconic film character to be destroyed by Hollywood?
Jake Connor, Sarah went trans.
@@anubusx Neo of Matrix soon...
@@kenbibi7631
This film should of been made years ago. To be honest the third film imo concluded the franchise properly. Same with Ghostbusters 3.
*John Connor:* (Dies in literally the first 2 minutes.)
Look how they massacred my boy.
B.C. Rivers MY BABY BOOOOOYYYYY
@@SuperWolsey Kory, no!
B.C. Rivers Kory YAAAASSSSSS!!!!! *fires blast*
David Ellison: Kory, no. *smack*
Ellison: Goodbye, Kory and when you get to Hell...tell them to make some room
Excellent work. Your findings behind the curtains explain so much the nonsensical production, the weak plot, and poor marketing decisions.
They need to pull a Joker on this. A low budget sub-50mil movie. A Reboot, a recast, no extended universe, no plans for a sequel etc. It should be a scifi thriller with maybe one action set piece for the climax. Just cast a B-list strong man as a t-800. Not god damn dwayne johnson or john cena or anyone else with a john in there name
Soooooo the terminator?
@@stephenramos2824 Yeaaaaaa
Add to the pile: Outside the MCU, audiences are simply not excited by CGI spectacle. Enough years have passed with EFX pics dominating the release schedules that the viewer has become bored. Terminator: Dark Fate simply wasn't a compelling enough story for the audience to show up. Add to that the tightening of the theatrical-to-streaming window and 4K televisions becoming commonplace, and it becomes very clear that there's a high hurdle for ANY movie to jump, let alone one that is transparently recycling its plot from earlier installments. Millenials have no nostaligia for the older actors. Gen X'ers have been burnt too many times. Divide this further by transparent politics alienating some of the audience and it's easy to see that this film was doomed.
I love Alien3, not as a sequel to Aliens, but as a standalone movie in the alien universe. In my eyes it's the last good alien movie that has that right atmosphere. And the one single xenomorph still feels a threat.
This is far worse than what they did in Aliens 3. This is like killing Ripley in the first two minutes and replacing her with Ed Sheeran as a Trans-gender Mexican woman. Maybe not the best example. But expecting the audience to just run with it, and cursing them out for not liking it, is madness.
I wonder if some kind of financial fraud is going on in Hollywood. Don't movie studios obtain insurance to cover financial losses?
@Machine Fack I'll have to research further about this soon. I'm sure they're not trying to enforce losses on movies, but they may be rationalizing the political messaging within movies and willing to suffer losses because insurance will cover. In other words, it's the "cost of doing political business".
So in journalism news, a sports site recently had most of its staff quit. The new owners set down an ultimatum: only publish sports news. The staff, under previous owners had publish vapid listicles, like top 10 funny dog pics or political articles.
Progressives will debase themselves publishing clickbait for pennies on the article, but tell them not to put their politics into everything they do and they will self immolate like vietnamese monk. You are dealing with zealots, nothing more.
I think there is someone like George Soros who keeps giving them money. They have to know that 100% of all woke movies fail miserably, yet they keep making them. So I really think theres a conversation happening like "I know every woke movie fails, but we are losing this propaganda war over peoples minds and need more propaganda! So I will not only give you money, but an amount of money that you would have gotten if it was a raging success! Just make it woke and you will make a ton of money."
Ya mean like in the movie “The Producers”?
@Ryan Scarborough Exactly. TARP and QE live on.
It's not too difficult to explain. They built their media frenzy on nostalgia. Got Linda back and ignored all the films past T2, got people hyped...then basically announced that they were killing off John Connor right away, literally just after stopping Judgement Day...and that was it. It was over.
James Cameron is just an unabashed sellout at this point. What a tragic shame.
"TDF just became the final installment of the Trilogy of Failed Terminator Trilogy Starters"... LOL I like that!
*Kills off the glue to the films and attacks the fans*
Gee, it sure is a mystery.
Also, that one picture at 11:06 is hilarious since it has the more current Wonder Woman on it and people loved that movie. These people, I swear.
They believe "no truth but power."
If reality doesn't match their narrative, they will reject reality and substitute their own.
Are fans misogynists? No. Doesn't matter, they'll rewrite reality.
Did fans hate WW? No. Doesn't matter, they'll rewrite reality.
I like that you sneaked in Collateral Damage in your bullet points.
We do try
10:00 You know, when I first heard that Linda Hamilton would return to the Terminator franchise in a movie that ignored all the sequels, I was pumped.
Then the details about the films emerged...
Thank goodness I didn't waste my money and time watching this dumpster fire.
Rewriting a story set in the past is like like trying to redraw a sketch using only an eraser.
Even though it may have been a cash-grab, I still appreciate that Terminator Salvation tried to do something different than the usual formula, and of all the sequels outside T2, that's the only one that I would have seen a continuation of. Sarah Connor Chronicles too, but that's outside the movie-realm, and could easily have run parallel to the movie-universe, instead of being cancelled.
I recall showing part of first episode of TSCC to my brother and he just laughed and walked out of the room when he saw the first terminator. I guess this is why good series like this got canceled because most people can't think anyone else but Arnold as the terminator so they didn't even give it a chance.
Top tier research. Awesome narration. Great video structure. You just earned a new subscriber here!
Terminator: Dank Fart
HOW DARE YOU MAKE LIGHT OF THE TERMINATOR LEGACY!? Huh? How? This movie has been blessed by the master, Cameron, you don’t dare disrespect this movie. It will go on to make $4 trillion at the box office. You have lost your mind, ay?!
Terminator: Da Fuq?
Flopnator: Woke Bait
J.C. Denton Terminator: Deep Fake
Terminator: Dork Age
To me, what's bad about the sequels is that they piss on the message of the first two movies: "The future is not set. There's no fate but what we make". The new movies by contrast, are fatalistic. No matter what anyone does, Judgment Day will happen one way or another. I think perhaps it's because the first two movies were made in the 80s and early 90s, before all the terrorism and mass shootings started. After Littleton, Columbine and 9/11, I think we lost some of our innocence and hopefulness, and the post-2000 sequels reflect this pessimism that's hung over our nation like a cloud ever since those fateful events.
The last thing Larry Ellison's brats need is money, they're just playing around in Hollywood with daddy's credit card.
Oliver Cromwell They fucked us
I didn't dislike it, but I am STILL stung over what they did to John in this film.
They need to stop making Terminator movies, Star Wars movies, Star Trek movies and TV shows, even Marvel and DC need a 20 year break.
It went wrong by killing John Connor in the first five minutes, then having the Terminator be a geriatric family man named Carl who runs a carpet company and has a pet dog. Whoever thought those were good ideas should never, ever be allowed to make another movie.
"Terminator: *_S E G A G E N E S I S_*
You just earned a new sub!
Shoveling money into furnaces by cramming as much pointless cg explosions and robots and lazers as possible is the anchor that doomed the profitability of these last few movies. It's like the makers didn't even watch the first two movies to understand what worked and how little lazers were needed to tell a decent story!
What went wrong? Us "closet misogynists" heeded Tim Miller's advice and chose "wallet lives matter".
If misogynists, racists, and transphobes tend to enjoy quality media, then gimme my red armband and Hugo Boss coat right now 💀
@@viscountrainbows6452 If you are reading this, you are the resistance. - John Connor
This must mean that the overwhelming majority of Terminator fans from the good films, T1 and T2, are closet misogynists.
Hill is like Rian Johnson- his cavalier and sanctimonous treatment of fans ensured the fracturing of the Terminator film franchise.
No one cared for the LGTB-9000 or the T-Juan thousand in "Terminator: Woke Fate". That's what ended up happening.
First Jake Skywalker, now John Connor. I wonder who the next male icon to get killed off will be. Maybe James Bond?
John was killed in Genisys by his own parents. Its funny how suddenly this is an outrage to people
@@jumpboy29 Genisys is also recognized as a piece of crap by Terminator fans. This was the next chapter after T2 so yes this does matter. That's still does not address the larger issue of feminist headhunting male iconic heroes. WTF was that crap with Jake Skywalker?
IF John Connor was COOL, IF they explored humanity/machine coldness and less wokeness, I would've watched it. There are more like me, i'm sure of it
Yeah I lost interest when the access media and Miller started attacking people early on as a preemptive strike and/or to build hype. Alienate half the country? Dont be pissed when the keep their money in their pocket. Many of us are sick and tired of SJWs and the PC culture
Same is said of franchises like Star Wars. I wasnt happy at all with how they depicted and treated the character of Han Solo in TFA, but I soldiered on. I really didnt like TLJ for too many reasons to list, but I most likely would have gone to Solo and Episode 9 (now ROS) anyway as a 52 yr old life long fan. But with the way Rian Johnson, Chuck Wendig, and other Lucasfilm executives and creative people, and access media treated the fans who had legitimate beefs with the storytelling, lack of character development, and other criticisms of the movies, and used the usual 'ist's and 'phobes slurs...Star Wars was dead to me. I didnt see Solo, and I wont be seeing ROS. Hollywood, and those elitist rich pricks can suck a bag of dicks. Just because they treated women like dirt for decades and got caught up in #metoo...doesn't mean I have to pay for it.
I think what often gets over looked is that T2 was a technical wonder of its age. The CGI was new and astounding, and one of the big draw cards for that movie. It helped that the story itself was coherent and emotionally engaging, but fundamentally it was a fair Sci-Fi movie with real world technological break through. I put Avatar in a similar category, in that, it was one of the first 3D blockbuster movies, and as such it was that 3D element that was an extra draw, certainly for me. In that case the Sci-Fi wasn't very good, and the idea of any sequel to it holds no interest for me what so ever.
Since then the previous T3 story was okay, and I felt it made sense with regards to the in story problem of attempting to defeat an AI. The people who played it were less likable and but it was okay as a movie. After that they couldn't get their Sci-Fi hat to set right on their heads and it became a mess.
Just like Bladerunner, T1, and T2 were stories of their time. We know, in general, much more about the possible outcomes of technology now than we did in the 80's. As one off's T1 and T2 could make some small sense. The moment you try to push it any further the wheels come of the technological wagon, as there are so many ways an advanced AI could interfere with humanity and guarantee it's own survival that sending single advanced weapons back in time just doesn't make any sense at all. That's why for me the Bladerunner 2049 failed as a movie because the whole premise of the movie didn't make any sense any more. The whole situation should have been systematically avoided and the direction they took implied humanity was just stupid.
Dark Fate simply ignores what a clever intelligence will do with technological power and the ability to adapt. In trying to do a story reset, it's basically failing to say anything worth saying at all. Given it's based on a new AI occurring, surely people would have learnt that repeating the same strategy will end up with the same results? Adding a political agenda made an unlikely story into an actively repellent one.
In contrast, I watched Joker because it seemed it was going to tell an interesting story, about an interesting character, and tell it well. That was indeed my experience of it. I don't intend to become the Joker nor do I feel the need to explain why I'm not going to become the Joker. It's a fantasy so there's no basis for it to make a difference to my reality.
On top of this, because of the heavy handed and accusatory story telling in modern works, I simply won't see any new movies unless I get some conformation ahead of time, from like minded reviewers, that the story is worth my time. I'm simply not going to see a movie whose intent is to lecture me as if I'm a strawman guilty of all the wrongs of the current world. What they are depicting is a societal lack of empathy for being a human male. They are attempting to validate an assertion that people like me aren't worth anything. That is not just abhorrent, it's down right dangerous if history is to be the guide.
With regards to the current state of Sci-Fi, people making movies seem to have forgotten that if you set up a scenario, it has to at least be plausible. Plastering it with CGI doesn't make a good story. CGI is there to service a good story. It's through a good Sci-Fi story that interesting themes in the modern world can be examined. That does raise the bar required for the story telling pretty high (apparently).
Unless they get their acts together and focus on coherent stories first with an eye on what we currently understand about technology, they won't be able to use it for any purpose at all because the movies they make simply won't be worth watching. Ignoring the story for the sake of installing a messaged agenda will simply kill whatever story that process is applied to. If I were to project a little it seems to me that a group of the current story tellers think they can directly shape society by inserting their pet worldviews into their projects. They might even be able to do so, if they created engaging stories to begin with. They don't seem to want to try to do that though, they seem to think their agendas are a desirable outcomes in of themselves. I don't think people actually agree with that, bar a very small minority, who aren't interested in Sci-Fi anyway.
I do hope this era of Sci-Fi stories will be over soon, although it seems many old franchises will be lost in the process.
What went wrong?
This movie was woke and it did not have Disney to have its back.
Remember Fox Co-Produced The Film, Guess Who Owns Fox? It's Just As Well
TDF failed because it never should have been made. James Cameron would have made his own Terminator 3 movie back in the 1990's if he hadn't ended the story with T2. The story of John Connor as the resistance leader might have been doable, but Terminator Salvation screwed that up.
Even if TDF hadn't killed off John Connor, it still would have meant that Terminator and T2 would have to be retconned, but killing off John Connor and replacing him with a generic teenage girl was just a big FU to fans of the original two movies and required an even greater, and more ridiculous retcon.
Check and see if the production was insured, for how much, and who're the beneficiaries.
The only ways "forward" are to let it sit for a decade and remake it, or make a series about the resistance.
I’m just thankful there was no love scene between John Connor and the Arnie Terminator.
People whine about Star Wars. This franchise was MY Star Wars growing up and it got destroyed in 2003.
Terminator Salvation was the terminator movie we always wanted. It had a lot going for it except arguably the most important: a compelling theme to go along and make us care. Why can't Hollywood just execute right... Ugh
T-X breast expansion scene in T3 was really hot tbh
What if.. James Cameron PURPOSEFULLY influenced the script so it would be a flop. The value of Terminator drops and he can buy it back dirt cheap and have all the rights again to himself? Then he can go on and create a real McCoy sequel.
My canon is T1, T2, TSCC. Although will never know how the story will end since the show got canceled on a damm cliffhanger. Still not over that one. 😞
Agreed! 💯
A series begins and ends with its original creators which is why nothing under the disney star wars license will ever be canon.
The Sarah Connor Chronicles was GREAT! That is the only good Terminator after T2
Seeing the kid John die in the first few minutes is sad, but Dark Fate at least acknowledged T2 happened by showing John Connor as we remember. Genysis treats T1 and T2 events as non-canon.
Laughed at Terminator: Sega Genisys.
I wanted so much to love this movie. I'd been waiting for it like an expectant papa since I saw the teaser, RIAYA feat.John Mark McMillan be damned. After 6 viewings (Woo Regal Unlimited!), the disappointment has worn off and what really hurts is seeing how it could have been great.
With a few exceptions, the shot construction and filmography are wonderful; acting, too. The scene at the Laredo house when Dani comforts Sarah by the tire swing is /haunting/. I don't think I've ever seen someone too sad to cry before. I loved Grace's duel with the REV-9 in the Mexico City plant every time. The score was right on point from soup to nuts.
Even the Godawful script had a few brushes with greatness. There was almost poignant symbolism in Dani's switch from bouquets of flowers to bags of potato chips. Arnie had some lines that were absolutely side-splitting, without being silly or distracting. They almost told a story about the Erinyes appearing to restore justice to a broken world. They almost told a story about a sequence of potential future AIs that accidentally made robot assassins so human that they became humane.
Sadly, Midnight's Edge shot the nail in the head. The problem with T:DF that no fan edit can ever fix is that the script told no story at all. Dark Fate's tale is a ransom note made from pieces cut out of T1 & T2 and haphazardly glued onto a one hundred ninety million-dollar bill.
Also, there were a surprising number of people named Zoltan involved the the production, and Carl definitely gruesomely murdered Alicia's husband, which might be the most frightening thing in the entire film.
For Deadpool to this...so sad, so bad. Sorry Tim.
Deadpool needs to back in time and stop all the Terminator films after T2 from being made.
@@anubusx I was ok with Salvation. Wasn't the greatest but at least it took a different take. But, yah every other film should be unmade.
It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead and after you're dead
it will raise a family call itself Carl and specialize in drapes.
Anymore if I sense even the slightest bit of that woke shit in a movie I cross it off my list
Me too.
I was ready to see Dark Fate until Tim Miller open his mouth. And the only thing they got from me was the middle finger.
What's insane is that John Connor being killed off was CAMERON'S IDEA. Convinces me that he's completely lost his mojo.
Cameron probably just wants to end the franchise once and for all.
You can tell they've been exploiting Terminator since T3. None of these stories make any sense. It should have died at T2.
That was fascinating, I had no idea of the history behind the Terminator rights being passed around like a hot potato, then again I stopped watching after Terminator 2. Thanks for the informative vid Midnight's Edge