If I had money for rims that's what I would have good thing about not having any friends or wanting any is you just do whatever u want I am never up to date on what's cool this is my only social media 😆
@@EnjoyCar lol you know what, I want to see that. Let’s make it happen and put it on TH-cam. Im in Sydney Australia, are you local and have tilty wheels you can bring to the track?
In my opinion, you could improve this test by choosing wheel and tyre combinations that give the same overall rolling diameter for comparison. (Increasing the rolling diameter of the wheel, as you did with the 17" setup, does actually increase the size of the contact patches. It also affects the gearing as you pointed out in your video. But, perhaps most importantly, it changes the ride height - the CoG has moved up in Z, away from the ground plane - which puts all your suspension setup out of kilter.) All can be easily resolved if you using the same rolling diameter setups for comparison. Nice vid though, thanks for sharing.
ah if only. the semi-slick or tire oriented rubber was in many sizes... it is often hard to even find something for car u use. without bigger modyfications.
Lots of people in comment section talk about guys not changing only 1 parameter (width or diameter). But that's what you do in reality. So thanks, that's a great video!
Exactly this is real life not a video game, I think theyre all so experienced that they missed the part you have to change the rim size they don't make a wider 15" hahaha i guess they do in video game land
I’m an old school small wheel fan too DP. I like the 15s and bronze is never a bad choice. I understand why you guys are experimenting since you have access to these wheels and tires. Good video as always.
@@samuelwong4152 Larger is not really for looks. As he mention, people like myself that has a K24 swap, the oil pan is like 2" off the ground and it always worries me. The larger wheel will raise the car up higher to give a better ground clearance for the oil pan. One of the most important thing on going to 17" wheel besides wider selection of tire size, is to fit larger brakes too. No, larger brake is not for looks. You can go much deeper into the corner before braking in which can give more confidence for the driver and results you can go faster better lap time. In order to go fast, you can to have confidence in your brakes! Of course, this is all track/racing talk. For streets in which I don't care for as I drive a $1000 daily POS, I guess it is important for the looks for some people?
No kidding,,, Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was all tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, faster braking, better aerodynamics, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid? Btw, have you noticed the size of front brakes behind those 19"ers on the ricer racer?
@AOMechMarine AOMechMarine I find smallest rims that clears the calipers. Typically there has to be 4" diffrence between between brake disc diameter and wheel diameter, so i did a quick math and found that i could go from 16 to 15 on my Subaru Imprezza Rs 2.5 gc8. The very cheap 15s were actually heavier than the Factory 16s, but it still did it's job. It made the awd launch even more brutal (while causing much less stress to the diff, drive shafts, gears and clutch. It totally transformed the lauchability), braked faster, handled sharper, and rode smoother. I mean, what serious enthusiast cares about top speed? Does any car that comes with 6 or 7 or 8 speed and 3 over drive at the top, do theoretical 300+ mph? It's about acceleration and proper gear ratios. Pretty much all cars come with too tall gearing, that's improper for racing. Shortening up the gearing typically fixes the each and every gears. Going an inch shorter barely effects top speed, speedometer or mileage. If you are so bothered by it, you can mount a taller tire on a wider rim (to give more tire stretch) , and still get the same sharp handling and even more comfy ride.
You have made a great effort with this video. However, the tyre sizes could have been chosen differently to make them as close to the same height as possible. 225/45/15 has 23" diameter. 235/40/17 has 24.4" diameter. Maybe 225/35/17 with a total height of 23.2" would be a better choice here. For a wider tyre contact wider wheels should be used. Of course there are more size choices with 17" tyres, but for me this is cheating. The taller tyres are fitted to gain better side wall stiffness at the same height. That stiffness will be better with 17" diameter and also depending the wheel manufacturer the weight difference would be less then 1.5kg between 15 & 17"!
No kidding,,, Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was all tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, faster braking, better aerodynamics, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid? Btw, have you noticed the size of front brakes behind those 19"ers on the ricer racer?
What I would have liked to have seen is same rolling diameter and same width 15" vs 17" where the difference is lower profile. Then do another one with slightly wider same rolling diameter. I find 15" with 45 series is too much sidewall and the tire rolls over even with z221's which have very stiff sidewall. I prefer 17" 35-40 series personally. 235
@Sandy Lee Yes, obviously the lighter the better and running a smaller rolling diameter for acceleration up until it starts to affect your gearing for cornering. But I have never found 15" to be beneficial because the side walls are way too high for the rolling diameter I like to use (usually so my speedo is accurate). For example, at my local track in my wifes car we were running 8" wide rims with 215/55/15 tires, the sidewalls were so sloppy and even though the width was slightly streched to tighten the tire up it was just way too tall and would slide as if the tire were overheating, but i could feel them rolling under the rim. We switched to 215/45/17 mostly because my wife wanted some lighter rims and the 17" rpf 01's are lighter than the old 15" no name's. My times on the same track went from a 1.16.3 to a 1.12.8 (i think) in the same season with no additional mods. The engine is also losing compression so I do believe we actually had less power on the faster day. The car was much more stable, no more tires rolling, much more outright grip and tire pressures were a lot more flexible and forgiving. I have been driving this track for over 10 years, and am usually very consistent with my times, always within 0.5 of a second from visit to visit. If we were running 215/40/15's things would have been a lot different. But for our car that rolling diameter is too small. I guess what I'm saying is usually to keep the same rolling diameter you need to step up the profile to a taller sidewall which can have negative effects. The same as going too small/skinny.
@@Skirk84 Too skinny is almost never good for handling, except in deep snow rally. But some of the best handling race cars like Shifter Carts and Formula 1s have relatively small diameter tires, with very TALL side walls. 215/55 on 15x8" seems like an over stretched setup. Why not go 235/45, or 235/50 or even 235/55,(on a 15x9, if necessary) if gearing is such an issue? The gearing issue sounds like a false narrative to me. You can easily change the gearbox ratio, next time you open up the transmission to replace the clutch. Instead, you want to go big on rolling package and throw away every performance advantage that comes with lighter and proper setup? All this sounds too bling bling to me, if you ask me. Those bling bling headers with embedded logos could make BUNCH More power if wrapped, but i doubt these guys will choose fuction over Fashion. If you insulate the header and keep the heat in the pipe, it will spool up the turbo much quicker. It totally transforms the engine. You just have to tolerate the bandaged look. Ceramic coated headers or even titanium wraps are not the same, and not as effective, especially ceramic coats.
@@suesan5111 By too skinny i meant sidewall height. 8" is the widest I can fit on my wifes car, 235 is fine but I have to muck around with the offsets a bit to make them fit. As i said the current 17" are lighter than our old 15". The only way to stop the tire from rolling over is run a higher pressure, and then the tire just overheats and i slide just as much. Im not worried about gaining power as ive been losing power over the last 5 years due to a dying engine. Used to be 116kw atw, now 80kw. Also no turbo on this car. Im even thinking of going 235/40/17 over 215/45/17, If i could run 235/45/17 that would be much better... I dont know how people make 55 series work as im driving on the sidewalls scrubbing off my lettering. Also its definitely not easy to change the gear ratio... Buying and installing another LSD with a higher final drive is not cheap or easy. On my car I run 315/30/18 with more sidewall than my wifes 17's
For a K20 engine, I would agree that 17 inch wheels would be better. But I would disagree that 17 inch wheels are better for a smaller engine (like a stock D15B7 engine) that doesnt have the power to move the car efficiently. The real answer is it depends on what engine you are using. Smaller engines perform better with smaller wheels
@@Skirk84 it doesn't i can proof that in tracks (here in Italy) Like Mugello Vallelunga Imola Misano Magione And Franciacorta 15" with almost 250hp it's still better have 15"
@@findear7785 eh I'd rather have 16s with wider tires. either ways I'd always be trying to get power no matter the engine... b16 turbo I'm putting atleast 215 wide on it
MotoIQ explained that Bigger diameter will lead to larger TTSA (Total Tread Surface Area). Basically if you unroll the tire, the 17inch would be longer than a 15inch. Recent Super cars went for 20in or even 21 inch for exactly that! This also helps with tire longevity as larger tread area tires can withstand more heat for longer periods than smaller TTSA tires (same car weight but distributed across more tire tread area). Inversely it would need more time to warm up. I have to mention that In japan Under Suzuki went faster when he changed from 295/30R18 to 295/35R18! Now more TTSA, width vs unsprung weight...that's the big question IMHO
There is diminishing returns there, though. My civic type R came with 20 inch wheels. I changed them to 18 inch forged wheels and 255 instead of 245, and the car has FAR more grip. Some of that is the tire change itself, it's a different tire, but the 20 inch wheels just didn't work well at all.
Wouldn’t thread length be circumference of outside diameter and have absolutely nothing to do with rim diameter. So a 25” tall tire with 15 rim has the same circumstance as 25” tall tire with 18” rim. Cars are moving to bigger rims to fit bigger brakes. Cars need bigger brakes because more hp needs more cooling Cars with more cooling radiators engine, trans, diff, intercooler are heavier Modern cars have more safety and luxuries making heavier All that extra weight and potential speed from hp requires bigger brakes Big brakes needs bigger rims But you’re correct taller tire aka larger circumstance tire has more rubber Plus larger circumstance has larger contact patch. Basically like the earth seems flat because it’s such a big circle. The bigger the tire the more the bottom seems flat and gives more contact.
@@tomjones5860 that's correct, but 25 tall 15inch combo would have a sloppy 4x4 like sidewall. Brakes is a big reason for the bigger wheels as you said
@@johnd9357 lol 20 inch on a civic, was it a spinner too? ^___^. True about the diminishing returns! I always beleive car modding is all about striking a balance. Just like a radio station (if the station its 96.5Mhz 96.4 is noise 96.6 is noise too)
You're not familiar with the 2017 Civic Type R, are you? A car they've featured on this channel numerous times? A record setting car? Yeah, it comes with 20 inch wheels factory. You tried to crack a joke and just looked ignorant instead.
So you attempt to appear scientific by comparing two sets of tires and simultaneously changing two variables. So does the width affect performance? The tire diameter? Or is it a combination of the two? I guess we'll never know. How about 15s with 235/215 width or 17s with 225/205? What about ride? Sidewall flex? Acceleration? Different cars with differing gear ratios (tighter/ wider)? You created more questions and provided no real answers.
This isn't a test about just tires, the whole purpose of stepping to 17's is that you can get more tire width on the car because if not then why upgrade if all your gaining is weight and perhaps slightly better gearing for this track. It's not hard to know the outcome. We are trying to test a practical real world 15 vs 17 setup that many people run and use that can fit on their stock fender Civic.
But you don't know if it's the tyre width making the car quicker overall; or the ability to hang onto 2nd gear from bigger wheel/tyre diameter on this track only.
@@MrHairyTeabag Well if you watch the video he does say the car grips and handles better on the 17s. Sure the ability to use 2nd gear in the tighter turns helps with the speed too but that will be dependent on what track you're driving on. The improved grip and handling balance is relevant on any track not just ones with tight 2nd gear corners.
MrHairyTeabag You're correct in single parameter test terms. They're pretty transparent tho thst it's a "this vs that" test not variation of just width, circumference or weight.
VTEC Academy did you guys “feel” the difference in the unsprung weight in any way, I’m mean it’s 12 lbs, the theory is that it should eat up the torque, right? And the torque multiplayer for the gears and final drive should be less in the 17s? They looked taller, the tire will rotate less than the smaller. Is science more performance art that math?!?! And it’s wider?!? It should be working with more friction!?!!? I guess I’m going to 22’s too. What the frick you guys
@@davidramirez6896 yup, you can for sure feel a difference, mostly under braking. last winter i was rucking 14's on my mx5 for the winter with skinny winter tyres. When i switched to my summer R16's with track toyos, i immediately felt a big difference. I also felt a small difference in aceleration, but that could of been down mostly to way gryppier tires. Also, bigger wheels will effectively eat torque as you say. Turst me, im an aerospace engineer :p
Nation Gurung And the larger tire diameter will make your stock brakes work at a less effective ratio. So you need to upgrade to retain the same performance.
Bigger brakes are only necessary if you experience significant fade (Brake Fluid boiling) in common situations, e.g. descending hills or racing if that's your poison. 8-)
Next to test is with the correct camber setup for the specific tire size, so that you use the most out of the tires. Wider tires with bigger rims (Smaller side walls) tends to love less camber. And from seeing the wear pattern on the 15" front's, I would say (without knowing the I/M/O temperatures) that it could use some more negative camber. Also, spring rate might change since the 17" probably will have less built inn side wall deflection, but being a trackday car, maybe to much details.
There are many variables to why the handling changed to less understeer, 1- The Roll center changed when you installed the taller tyres 2- the camber you dialed in might better suit the 235 tyre, giving in a bigger contact patch 3- the 15" tyres were already used, compared to the 17" wich are new, and its known that a tyre gives its highest grip levels in its 1st heat cycle or first 10laps, after that the grip fall-off curve gets sharper, wich might explain the sharp terminal understeer
I'm glad to see someone else still enjoying their Civic who has gray hair. I'm not the only one now :P Nice coupe and thanks for the effort in this test!
It's funny, just yesterday I was watching an old video of the "seeker" fd2 type R on a staggered 295/30/18 front and 235/40/18 rear setup. The car only makes 280hp so my initial reaction was "talk about overkill." My tune definitely changed when the car went on to decimate the other vehicles it was up against by over a full second on the course. It also set times close to much, much, more powerful and equally well sorted AWD and RWD cars. So... while I've always advocated for using "only as much tire as you need" I'm really beginning to wonder: "When do you actually begin to reach diminishing returns on tire width/ diameter?"
The 17s you tested with are a half-inch wider than the 15s, and a half of a second gain on your laptime is within margin of error. Obviously the wider setup would have more grip in most cases, but this is just negligence in testing. It's not a one-to-one comparison. Science also says that the larger wheels have a higher moment of inertia in acceleration.
RH 0703 actually that’s a bad idea 16” is kinda shitty size for performance tires 15 got tons of cheap good tires 17 got higher width and good wheel selection.
@@Ronin-gy5ob problem is not wheels ... its tires for good price. and no thanks :) Got 15x8 Storm S1 on my turbo miata - does right by me + 200TW tires cost 130$ a pop.
I am in a k20 swapped civic coupe just like in the video. Started out on 15x8 +35 with 225/45/15 R888 all around. As much as I like the acceleration of this setup I would spin and loose traction on corner exit. Not understeer just wheel spin. I moved to 16x7.5 +42 on the same tire and went 2 seconds faster. This 16" setup did have a slightly larger diameter on the same width but provided so much more traction on corner exit. Gearing was also better and my top speeds increased as well. To sum it all up, no questions, the 16" setup is better for the power and torque of the k20.
@@Hman9876 Had 195/50-15 on my NB Miata ( Hankook 222 RS 3 ) was OK. Tried the latest NB Facelift with 16", not running straight anymore. Awful. Have now ND with 205/45 - 17, seems also be the usable limit, don`t want wider ones... Also have an 1988 RX 7 Turbo , runs best on 205/55- 16 Bridgestone RE 71 ...
I had the same head unit on my EM1 too.....still have it :) I was running 17" Racing Hart CP-035's when they first came out in the states back then everyone said they were too big, I loved them....., have them on my CRX now.
I worked in a tire shop for years...trust me that is not a true statement. They have thousands of heavy wheels with thin low profile tires. Especially on ghetto setups
I love that he included the talk about the sidewall. Helps dampen shock on the drive train with a biggersidewall and helps on a launch. Would like to see some 1/4 mile stuff.
Great comparison in gear ratios for the map! However, results like time would be slightly skewed because you were comparing a used tire with a brand new one.
Totally wholesome informative video for everyone. Lightweight wheel setup will always be better because after 4-5 laps the brakes tend to fade then your timing will starts to get affected as you have too brake early.
There deff is a fine line here. Once you start getting too large grip goes down. There was a very intetesting test done on a TV car show years ago here in Aust. They were in a HSV VE GTS, was given to them with the optional 22in wheels- took iit around a particular track and then swapped back to the standard fitment 20in wheels and took it back out. The GTS was 4 seconds a lap faster on the 20in rims. The tiny sidewalls hurt lateral traction pretty badly.
If the overall diameter was the same there would be no difference but comfort and slight roll. You're asking to see a difference were differences dont exist to the human buttocks.
This is the best channel on TH-cam! Should have 2 million subs. Please do a tire comparison of all the best DOT legal track tires. NT01vs RC1 vs R888R etc. I know I'm not the only one who wants to see this!
On what car are u using the 16's and what tires do you have on them? Do you do a lot of track driving? I am curious about some experiences with 16'' tires for track use.
I had an EK at one point and definitely liked the looks of the 15s . On a track I might go to 17 for cornering grip but for going fast in a straight I'd stick with 15's.
After switching from 15x65x185 to 17x45x215 automatic trans, i noticed a small delay in acceleration when pressing the pedal hard. I should have replaced the tires from balloon(stock) to flat type and not the rims. Maybe it should have accelerate faster. The 17 looks nice though.
The ending song is very accurate lol. Great info in the video though! I actually had a friend who down sized their tire based on the results they got on racing simulator, which gave them an advantage to win their national title IRL (after winning they banned the ability to change wheel/tire combos). I think a lot has to do with the track you're racing at as well.
For track i agree with you , bigger is better , but for a daily driver/weekend roll race/drag car the 15's with a good ammt of air pressure let out would hook way better than the taller wheel setup, and they look better imo.
I was talking about daily tho. However, you don't see F1 with huge wheels. The slightly faster lap time is mainly due to fatter tires, not bigger wheels. Of course you may have to go for bigger wheels for fatter tires, but that's an indirect reason since no one make wide 15 in wheels. Also I would say 1:22.5 and 1:22.0 is almost negligible. Pretty sure if he did several more times he would get variable results.
Carbrickscity I’m not disagreeing with you. And I understand that you’re talking about a daily. That’s why I mentioned it. I’m just saying that for track cars, mpg, comfort don’t really matter. And for some even price doesn’t matter. And yes. I agree with everything else about wide tyres etc2.
Well again I was mainly talking about daily, but you brought up tracking, so I responded. I was just saying in this video for his civic, 15 and 17 doesn't make a huge difference even in track time and to me it doesn't worth the time and money to switch it back and forth between road and track. And I am saying you don't see huge wheels in F1 cars, which is arguably the one top racing events. Wider tires is what makes the track time quicker, not bigger, heavier wheels.
The btcc originally fitted bigger rims in order to fit bigger brakes it looks cool but unless you change your gearing it is not something for the street other than looks
16’s would be in-between 15 and 17 in how fast they are because the main issue here in the dry on a tight race circuit with reasonable amounts of power and on same type of tire like 100/200 TLW tires is less grip and more gearing. having a few extra MPH/KPH every gear to wind out the car and hold lower gears longer for more corners. So logically 16 would be in-between 15 and 17. If grip played more of a role as in he making too much power for the chassis or in the wet then Sometimes in-between sizes are better!
I just searched, "15 inch rims" and this video popped up. In the first minute i can tell its perfect. Im looking for wheel/tire info for my civic... The algorithm is getting too good.
I like these comparisons very much!! Changing 2 parameters at the same time cannot help us understand which one had greater impact on the outcome though. Was it Width or diameter?
I have been a boy racer for 25 years,. My first car was an 86 pulsar,. I paid a set of falkens on 15 inch watanabes and really made the car better,. At the moment i drive a lexus hybrid 4 cylinder fwd and running on reverse staggered tyres on staggered rims,. 265 35 on 8 inch and 255 35 on 9 inch Pilot cup 2 fronts and pzero rears,. Handling is the best
If you are wearing the outside of the front tires, you need a small amount more negative camber to get the full contact patch at peak loading. Try a quarter of a degree, should fix the understeer problem as well. Taller tires = longer contact patch. Wider tires = Wider contact patch. Usually more sidewall also = longer contact patch and more grip as well. The 15s would be better if you could get the same overall width and diameter (as long as the sidewall is stiff enough to handle sideloading.) If you run into an issue of exceeding the sideloading of the tire, running more pressure, or wider wheel with the same tire will usually resolve it. You want a little bit of an inward angle on the sidewall. Think triangles for stiffness same applies with sidewalls. Too much sidewall angle will cause the tire to go out of round, which reduces contact patch. Taller is always better unless you can go really really wide, until you can no longer achieve enough downward force to properly load the tire. (too light of car/not enough downforce) Another thing to note is that while the 17s will provide better grip with street tires as there are better options. If you are running race compounds there are a number of awesome and wide 15 tires you can get. (sounds like the time attack guy was in some sort of street compound class).
Good video! But in any case, your front 15 inch wheels are not wide enough to take full advantage of your tires. You would need an extra inch. Your front 17s would need an extra half in. Also, the larger diameter helps longitudinal grip. Thanks for posting your test!
Hey Marc ! Yep, fronts on the 15s need to be 9s, rear 8s... Here the fronts especially just kill the handling with that balloon fitment. Less grip, less turn-in, less feedback... less everything really. The 17s are closer to optimal hence why they're faster. I don't think they would be otherwise. But of course the more power the car has the more it can handle bigger rims without being hindered, to a point.
I had a 93 that my brother gave me years ago and I swapped the 13’s for 15’s right away. So I have been a firm believer for these cars a little bigger always helps though the tire scrubbing will cost you.
It's a real world test. No one goes up in rim size to use the same width tyre. People go wider tyre on a bigger rim. This is the common practice so no it's not a perfect comparison test but it's a realistic one.
@@toddxhiggins NO! UNLESS EVERYTHING IS UNDER IDEAL CONDITIONS AND 100% A/b TESTED, NO VALID CONCLUSIONS CAN BE DRAWN!!!1!!11KHJUIEFKLHJWEFKLJUUEFQKLJBN!!!!11!!1!!! *_MOUTH FOAM INTENSIFIES_*
@@toddxhiggins Since so many variables were changed between each tire, there is absolutely no way to even come close to a conclusion. Maybe wider is better, maybe less thickness is better, who knows? Maybe you need to increase width and diameter at the same time to have some gains? We're talking about results that show a
I have a Vq30det Nissan Cedric, went from the 205/60 15s to 225/35 19s and the difference was night and day. Love the look of the Rays but it’s winter anyways and I love hitting 45mph quicker. By the way, aside from being a badass Civic, it’s so clean too!
Well done! A couple of years ago Car & Driver published acceleration test that only proved that aluminum weighs more then rubber. Obviously, a bigger contact patch = less understeer on a FWD auto, but it was great to see the difference in real time - Thanks!
The tires and wheels should have been more simlar like same width, tire diameter and the type of wheels so the only difference would have been wheel diameter
Leofred I think they were trying to show if the increase in weight and overall Wheel diameter could be combated by an increase in tire width. Not so much a completely direct comparison between 15” and 17”.
The reason people go up to 17'' is to run a wider tire, so we felt it was less relevant to compare the exact same widths since in the real world people go up in diameter so they can also go to a wider tire in the process.
Speed Academy - Changing tire width, tire sidewall height, tire weight, wheel weight, wheel width, and wheel diameter all at once is lot of variables to change in unison and then draw accurate conclusions. Can you say the changes are width only? Mostly width? Tire size? Sidewall changes? Seems like it won’t really answer any questions with precision.
If you have traction issues I would use the bigger wheel, it will help... If your car hooks up fine I would rock the 15’s for a lighter setup and quicker acceleration.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
If this was the the early 2000s everyone would still be rocking 20s with spinner rims.
If I had money for rims that's what I would have good thing about not having any friends or wanting any is you just do whatever u want I am never up to date on what's cool this is my only social media 😆
No those people now have slammed cars with tilted wheels, same same but different.
@@thenameidk3168 good for you?
@@thenameidk3168 that’s pretty stupid dude
@@EnjoyCar lol you know what, I want to see that. Let’s make it happen and put it on TH-cam. Im in Sydney Australia, are you local and have tilty wheels you can bring to the track?
I had a car just like it and it came with 17s when I bought it. A week after I fitted 195/55/15 W rated Pirellis and it was simply amazing.
In my opinion, you could improve this test by choosing wheel and tyre combinations that give the same overall rolling diameter for comparison. (Increasing the rolling diameter of the wheel, as you did with the 17" setup, does actually increase the size of the contact patches. It also affects the gearing as you pointed out in your video. But, perhaps most importantly, it changes the ride height - the CoG has moved up in Z, away from the ground plane - which puts all your suspension setup out of kilter.) All can be easily resolved if you using the same rolling diameter setups for comparison. Nice vid though, thanks for sharing.
ah if only. the semi-slick or tire oriented rubber was in many sizes... it is often hard to even find something for car u use. without bigger modyfications.
Exactly. He is comparing apples to oranges. Not apples to apples.
I agree
Lots of people in comment section talk about guys not changing only 1 parameter (width or diameter). But that's what you do in reality. So thanks, that's a great video!
Exactly this is real life not a video game, I think theyre all so experienced that they missed the part you have to change the rim size they don't make a wider 15" hahaha i guess they do in video game land
I’m an old school small wheel fan too DP. I like the 15s and bronze is never a bad choice. I understand why you guys are experimenting since you have access to these wheels and tires. Good video as always.
15inch are the sweet spot..... larger are for looks, unless u driving a supercar
@@samuelwong4152 Larger is not really for looks. As he mention, people like myself that has a K24 swap, the oil pan is like 2" off the ground and it always worries me. The larger wheel will raise the car up higher to give a better ground clearance for the oil pan. One of the most important thing on going to 17" wheel besides wider selection of tire size, is to fit larger brakes too. No, larger brake is not for looks. You can go much deeper into the corner before braking in which can give more confidence for the driver and results you can go faster better lap time. In order to go fast, you can to have confidence in your brakes! Of course, this is all track/racing talk. For streets in which I don't care for as I drive a $1000 daily POS, I guess it is important for the looks for some people?
The best 15” tyre with the endurance to hold and speed up for light cars.
The beefy sidewall of the 15s does give me the tingles downstairs... But the 17s look sharp.
lol the tingles are important
I love wheel/tire info. Probably my favorite subject when talking about cars.
No kidding,,, Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was all tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, faster braking, better aerodynamics, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid? Btw, have you noticed the size of front brakes behind those 19"ers on the ricer racer?
Garbage Built Hondas 👏👍
Garage Built Hondas good 4 u mate
Same. It's a shame everyone's so fucking stingy with specs
@AOMechMarine AOMechMarine I find smallest rims that clears the calipers. Typically there has to be 4" diffrence between between brake disc diameter and wheel diameter, so i did a quick math and found that i could go from 16 to 15 on my Subaru Imprezza Rs 2.5 gc8. The very cheap 15s were actually heavier than the Factory 16s, but it still did it's job. It made the awd launch even more brutal (while causing much less stress to the diff, drive shafts, gears and clutch. It totally transformed the lauchability), braked faster, handled sharper, and rode smoother. I mean, what serious enthusiast cares about top speed? Does any car that comes with 6 or 7 or 8 speed and 3 over drive at the top, do theoretical 300+ mph? It's about acceleration and proper gear ratios. Pretty much all cars come with too tall gearing, that's improper for racing. Shortening up the gearing typically fixes the each and every gears. Going an inch shorter barely effects top speed, speedometer or mileage. If you are so bothered by it, you can mount a taller tire on a wider rim (to give more tire stretch) , and still get the same sharp handling and even more comfy ride.
You have made a great effort with this video. However, the tyre sizes could have been chosen differently to make them as close to the same height as possible. 225/45/15 has 23" diameter. 235/40/17 has 24.4" diameter. Maybe 225/35/17 with a total height of 23.2" would be a better choice here. For a wider tyre contact wider wheels should be used. Of course there are more size choices with 17" tyres, but for me this is cheating. The taller tyres are fitted to gain better side wall stiffness at the same height. That stiffness will be better with 17" diameter and also depending the wheel manufacturer the weight difference would be less then 1.5kg between 15 & 17"!
No kidding,,, Not an Apple to Apple comparison. I would get much wider 15" rim, maybe even 14" and 245 tire. The response Diff was all tire stretch config (width of rim vs tire). I would have gone with 15x9 rim with 245/50. That would give similar drive ratio, but sharper steering, quicker acceleration, faster braking, better aerodynamics, better pot hole resistance,,, and all with a Cadillac like ride !! Why are people so bling bling stupid? Btw, have you noticed the size of front brakes behind those 19"ers on the ricer racer?
What I would have liked to have seen is same rolling diameter and same width 15" vs 17" where the difference is lower profile. Then do another one with slightly wider same rolling diameter.
I find 15" with 45 series is too much sidewall and the tire rolls over even with z221's which have very stiff sidewall. I prefer 17" 35-40 series personally. 235
@Sandy Lee Yes, obviously the lighter the better and running a smaller rolling diameter for acceleration up until it starts to affect your gearing for cornering. But I have never found 15" to be beneficial because the side walls are way too high for the rolling diameter I like to use (usually so my speedo is accurate). For example, at my local track in my wifes car we were running 8" wide rims with 215/55/15 tires, the sidewalls were so sloppy and even though the width was slightly streched to tighten the tire up it was just way too tall and would slide as if the tire were overheating, but i could feel them rolling under the rim. We switched to 215/45/17 mostly because my wife wanted some lighter rims and the 17" rpf 01's are lighter than the old 15" no name's. My times on the same track went from a 1.16.3 to a 1.12.8 (i think) in the same season with no additional mods. The engine is also losing compression so I do believe we actually had less power on the faster day. The car was much more stable, no more tires rolling, much more outright grip and tire pressures were a lot more flexible and forgiving. I have been driving this track for over 10 years, and am usually very consistent with my times, always within 0.5 of a second from visit to visit.
If we were running 215/40/15's things would have been a lot different. But for our car that rolling diameter is too small. I guess what I'm saying is usually to keep the same rolling diameter you need to step up the profile to a taller sidewall which can have negative effects. The same as going too small/skinny.
@@Skirk84 Too skinny is almost never good for handling, except in deep snow rally. But some of the best handling race cars like Shifter Carts and Formula 1s have relatively small diameter tires, with very TALL side walls. 215/55 on 15x8" seems like an over stretched setup. Why not go 235/45, or 235/50 or even 235/55,(on a 15x9, if necessary) if gearing is such an issue? The gearing issue sounds like a false narrative to me. You can easily change the gearbox ratio, next time you open up the transmission to replace the clutch. Instead, you want to go big on rolling package and throw away every performance advantage that comes with lighter and proper setup? All this sounds too bling bling to me, if you ask me. Those bling bling headers with embedded logos could make BUNCH More power if wrapped, but i doubt these guys will choose fuction over Fashion. If you insulate the header and keep the heat in the pipe, it will spool up the turbo much quicker. It totally transforms the engine. You just have to tolerate the bandaged look. Ceramic coated headers or even titanium wraps are not the same, and not as effective, especially ceramic coats.
@@suesan5111 By too skinny i meant sidewall height. 8" is the widest I can fit on my wifes car, 235 is fine but I have to muck around with the offsets a bit to make them fit. As i said the current 17" are lighter than our old 15". The only way to stop the tire from rolling over is run a higher pressure, and then the tire just overheats and i slide just as much. Im not worried about gaining power as ive been losing power over the last 5 years due to a dying engine. Used to be 116kw atw, now 80kw. Also no turbo on this car.
Im even thinking of going 235/40/17 over 215/45/17, If i could run 235/45/17 that would be much better... I dont know how people make 55 series work as im driving on the sidewalls scrubbing off my lettering.
Also its definitely not easy to change the gear ratio... Buying and installing another LSD with a higher final drive is not cheap or easy.
On my car I run 315/30/18 with more sidewall than my wifes 17's
That 3rd->4th shift is so satisfying. Perfectly timed over and over!
For a K20 engine, I would agree that 17 inch wheels would be better. But I would disagree that 17 inch wheels are better for a smaller engine (like a stock D15B7 engine) that doesnt have the power to move the car efficiently. The real answer is it depends on what engine you are using. Smaller engines perform better with smaller wheels
Sentient Program Mind Blow! F1 Teams have to get this guy!
Nah k20 still performs better with 15" obviously only when NA
Depends if it gives you a handling boost or not. handling > power/accleration for lap times.
@@Skirk84 it doesn't i can proof that in tracks (here in Italy) Like Mugello Vallelunga Imola Misano Magione And Franciacorta 15" with almost 250hp it's still better have 15"
@@findear7785 eh I'd rather have 16s with wider tires. either ways I'd always be trying to get power no matter the engine... b16 turbo I'm putting atleast 215 wide on it
I went from a 205 to a 245 in my dsm and that made an incredible difference. Going to a wider tire is my favorite "mod"
MotoIQ explained that Bigger diameter will lead to larger TTSA (Total Tread Surface Area). Basically if you unroll the tire, the 17inch would be longer than a 15inch. Recent Super cars went for 20in or even 21 inch for exactly that! This also helps with tire longevity as larger tread area tires can withstand more heat for longer periods than smaller TTSA tires (same car weight but distributed across more tire tread area). Inversely it would need more time to warm up. I have to mention that In japan Under Suzuki went faster when he changed from 295/30R18 to 295/35R18! Now more TTSA, width vs unsprung weight...that's the big question IMHO
There is diminishing returns there, though. My civic type R came with 20 inch wheels. I changed them to 18 inch forged wheels and 255 instead of 245, and the car has FAR more grip. Some of that is the tire change itself, it's a different tire, but the 20 inch wheels just didn't work well at all.
Wouldn’t thread length be circumference of outside diameter and have absolutely nothing to do with rim diameter. So a 25” tall tire with 15 rim has the same circumstance as 25” tall tire with 18” rim.
Cars are moving to bigger rims to fit bigger brakes.
Cars need bigger brakes because more hp needs more cooling
Cars with more cooling radiators engine, trans, diff, intercooler are heavier
Modern cars have more safety and luxuries making heavier
All that extra weight and potential speed from hp requires bigger brakes
Big brakes needs bigger rims
But you’re correct taller tire aka larger circumstance tire has more rubber
Plus larger circumstance has larger contact patch. Basically like the earth seems flat because it’s such a big circle. The bigger the tire the more the bottom seems flat and gives more contact.
@@tomjones5860 that's correct, but 25 tall 15inch combo would have a sloppy 4x4 like sidewall. Brakes is a big reason for the bigger wheels as you said
@@johnd9357 lol 20 inch on a civic, was it a spinner too? ^___^. True about the diminishing returns! I always beleive car modding is all about striking a balance. Just like a radio station (if the station its 96.5Mhz 96.4 is noise 96.6 is noise too)
You're not familiar with the 2017 Civic Type R, are you? A car they've featured on this channel numerous times? A record setting car? Yeah, it comes with 20 inch wheels factory. You tried to crack a joke and just looked ignorant instead.
That thing is a handful. It looks like a lot of fun.
Jesus that shifter is bling
Brendan Blackett and you still keep your cup holders.
i want one, i don't even care if its good/expensive.
Brendan Blackett agree...that shifter is sick
K-TUNED
K-tuned shifter. Trust me, that shifter feels chrispy good and precicion when shifting
So you attempt to appear scientific by comparing two sets of tires and simultaneously changing two variables. So does the width affect performance? The tire diameter? Or is it a combination of the two? I guess we'll never know. How about 15s with 235/215 width or 17s with 225/205? What about ride? Sidewall flex? Acceleration? Different cars with differing gear ratios (tighter/ wider)? You created more questions and provided no real answers.
This isn't a test about just tires, the whole purpose of stepping to 17's is that you can get more tire width on the car because if not then why upgrade if all your gaining is weight and perhaps slightly better gearing for this track. It's not hard to know the outcome. We are trying to test a practical real world 15 vs 17 setup that many people run and use that can fit on their stock fender Civic.
But you don't know if it's the tyre width making the car quicker overall; or the ability to hang onto 2nd gear from bigger wheel/tyre diameter on this track only.
@@MrHairyTeabag Well if you watch the video he does say the car grips and handles better on the 17s. Sure the ability to use 2nd gear in the tighter turns helps with the speed too but that will be dependent on what track you're driving on. The improved grip and handling balance is relevant on any track not just ones with tight 2nd gear corners.
MrHairyTeabag You're correct in single parameter test terms. They're pretty transparent tho thst it's a "this vs that" test not variation of just width, circumference or weight.
Is it important maintaing the same offset (ET) when you upgrade to a wider wheels / tires? How was your setup?
Next up, 22s with 325 wide tires! Great head to head test. 👍🏽
VTEC Academy did you guys “feel” the difference in the unsprung weight in any way, I’m mean it’s 12 lbs, the theory is that it should eat up the torque, right? And the torque multiplayer for the gears and final drive should be less in the 17s? They looked taller, the tire will rotate less than the smaller. Is science more performance art that math?!?! And it’s wider?!? It should be working with more friction!?!!? I guess I’m going to 22’s too. What the frick you guys
@@davidramirez6896 yup, you can for sure feel a difference, mostly under braking. last winter i was rucking 14's on my mx5 for the winter with skinny winter tyres. When i switched to my summer R16's with track toyos, i immediately felt a big difference. I also felt a small difference in aceleration, but that could of been down mostly to way gryppier tires.
Also, bigger wheels will effectively eat torque as you say. Turst me, im an aerospace engineer :p
Ö
You should test also drag race 1/4 m you would see the diference beter then this
@@davidramirez6896 change the air pressure by 2 psi and it will change - is that science!!?
Your driving looked a lot calmer with the 17"'s! Good comparison!
@6:16 a beautiful E46 sneaks in, and decides not to interrupt.
My favorite channel on TH-cam. Race cars all day, every day. How much better can it get?
Bigger wheels mean room for bigger brakes.
If the brakes don't need to be bigger then there's no point. It will just weigh the car down.
Nation Gurung And the larger tire diameter will make your stock brakes work at a less effective ratio. So you need to upgrade to retain the same performance.
Bigger brakes are only necessary if you experience significant fade (Brake Fluid boiling) in common situations, e.g. descending hills or racing if that's your poison. 8-)
Nation Gurung I'm getting my 93 sc300 bbk next week!
Hell yeah
Next to test is with the correct camber setup for the specific tire size, so that you use the most out of the tires. Wider tires with bigger rims (Smaller side walls) tends to love less camber. And from seeing the wear pattern on the 15" front's, I would say (without knowing the I/M/O temperatures) that it could use some more negative camber.
Also, spring rate might change since the 17" probably will have less built inn side wall deflection, but being a trackday car, maybe to much details.
There are many variables to why the handling changed to less understeer,
1- The Roll center changed when you installed the taller tyres
2- the camber you dialed in might better suit the 235 tyre, giving in a bigger contact patch
3- the 15" tyres were already used, compared to the 17" wich are new, and its known that a tyre gives its highest grip levels in its 1st heat cycle or first 10laps, after that the grip fall-off curve gets sharper, wich might explain the sharp terminal understeer
I'm glad to see someone else still enjoying their Civic who has gray hair. I'm not the only one now :P Nice coupe and thanks for the effort in this test!
Tire wall deformation is way less with the 17" too, the car as you said should be have much better handling because of that.
You could do the same on the 15 by getting tires with lees sidewall so go from 45 to 40 or 35s
@01MIKUrocks01 where are you going to find 225x35x15 tires????
It's funny, just yesterday I was watching an old video of the "seeker" fd2 type R on a staggered 295/30/18 front and 235/40/18 rear setup. The car only makes 280hp so my initial reaction was "talk about overkill." My tune definitely changed when the car went on to decimate the other vehicles it was up against by over a full second on the course. It also set times close to much, much, more powerful and equally well sorted AWD and RWD cars.
So... while I've always advocated for using "only as much tire as you need" I'm really beginning to wonder:
"When do you actually begin to reach diminishing returns on tire width/ diameter?"
I remember being told 17's for show, 15's for go
great driving!!! doesn't see much youtubers drives as decent, smooth and calm as you does... thanks for the video!!!
The 17s you tested with are a half-inch wider than the 15s, and a half of a second gain on your laptime is within margin of error. Obviously the wider setup would have more grip in most cases, but this is just negligence in testing. It's not a one-to-one comparison. Science also says that the larger wheels have a higher moment of inertia in acceleration.
Agreed, and this is a long course where half a second could be caused by anything. We're not talking about the quarter mile here.
You are a good driver. Read the comments about how you should of and could of, but this is what people do a lot with their cars for the street.
If having a hard time deciding 15 or 17, then go in between using 16.
RH 0703 actually that’s a bad idea
16” is kinda shitty size for performance tires
15 got tons of cheap good tires
17 got higher width and good wheel selection.
Liviu Romascanu just get some te37s and u will be fine
@@Ronin-gy5ob problem is not wheels ... its tires for good price. and no thanks :) Got 15x8 Storm S1 on my turbo miata - does right by me + 200TW tires cost 130$ a pop.
RH 0703 hahaha good idea
I am in a k20 swapped civic coupe just like in the video. Started out on 15x8 +35 with 225/45/15 R888 all around. As much as I like the acceleration of this setup I would spin and loose traction on corner exit. Not understeer just wheel spin. I moved to 16x7.5 +42 on the same tire and went 2 seconds faster. This 16" setup did have a slightly larger diameter on the same width but provided so much more traction on corner exit. Gearing was also better and my top speeds increased as well. To sum it all up, no questions, the 16" setup is better for the power and torque of the k20.
I'd say stick with 15" but run wider wheels/tires. Thanks to the miata market. More tire options are becoming available in 245s
Gasosphere totally
Miata op
@@Hman9876 Had 195/50-15 on my NB Miata ( Hankook 222 RS 3 ) was OK. Tried the latest NB Facelift with 16", not running straight anymore. Awful. Have now ND with 205/45 - 17, seems also be the usable limit, don`t want wider ones... Also have an 1988 RX 7 Turbo , runs best on 205/55- 16 Bridgestone RE 71 ...
16’s best suited for these Honda’s
Not enough tire options for 16s. You either go 15s or 17s.
@@stormsii2961 specially if you want track tires like semi slicks
@@samuraik933 Agreed.
I love those stupid little songs you come up with when you are stuck behind someone. They make little to no sense but its just so enjoyable.
I had the same head unit on my EM1 too.....still have it :)
I was running 17" Racing Hart CP-035's when they first came out in the states back then everyone said they were too big, I loved them....., have them on my CRX now.
my mind was blown the day i learned that tires weigh more than wheels.
zachary paris when I saw that right now I was mind blown as well
I worked in a tire shop for years...trust me that is not a true statement. They have thousands of heavy wheels with thin low profile tires. Especially on ghetto setups
@@crtinkering7323 Performance tires and wheels then, where the weight is actually a concern.
still saving up for a '99 Riviera donked out on 24s.
@@zacharyparis Sheeeit. Twenny foes is lil league, fam.
I love that he included the talk about the sidewall. Helps dampen shock on the drive train with a biggersidewall and helps on a launch. Would like to see some 1/4 mile stuff.
Many drag tires don't even have sidewalls.
Great comparison in gear ratios for the map! However, results like time would be slightly skewed because you were comparing a used tire with a brand new one.
Totally wholesome informative video for everyone. Lightweight wheel setup will always be better because after 4-5 laps the brakes tend to fade then your timing will starts to get affected as you have too brake early.
love that shifter setup and love this channel
There deff is a fine line here. Once you start getting too large grip goes down. There was a very intetesting test done on a TV car show years ago here in Aust. They were in a HSV VE GTS, was given to them with the optional 22in wheels- took iit around a particular track and then swapped back to the standard fitment 20in wheels and took it back out. The GTS was 4 seconds a lap faster on the 20in rims. The tiny sidewalls hurt lateral traction pretty badly.
Dang I wish this was more focused on rim size instead of how tall a tire is.
If the overall diameter was the same there would be no difference but comfort and slight roll. You're asking to see a difference were differences dont exist to the human buttocks.
This is the best channel on TH-cam! Should have 2 million subs. Please do a tire comparison of all the best DOT legal track tires. NT01vs RC1 vs R888R etc. I know I'm not the only one who wants to see this!
The shorter sidewall on the 17s makes it stiffer, resulting in crisper turn-in. Nice to see real experience on the hearing. Great stuff.
16" ftw ! Best for both track and street .
On what car are u using the 16's and what tires do you have on them?
Do you do a lot of track driving?
I am curious about some experiences with 16'' tires for track use.
@@jxg1652 EG8 , i used Yokohama Advan Fleva , i do tracks sometimes , but based on my experience on track is not that bad , more to street tires 🤣
I had an EK at one point and definitely liked the looks of the 15s . On a track I might go to 17 for cornering grip but for going fast in a straight I'd stick with 15's.
After switching from 15x65x185 to 17x45x215 automatic trans, i noticed a small delay in acceleration when pressing the pedal hard. I should have replaced the tires from balloon(stock) to flat type and not the rims. Maybe it should have accelerate faster. The 17 looks nice though.
The ending song is very accurate lol. Great info in the video though! I actually had a friend who down sized their tire based on the results they got on racing simulator, which gave them an advantage to win their national title IRL (after winning they banned the ability to change wheel/tire combos). I think a lot has to do with the track you're racing at as well.
For track i agree with you , bigger is better , but for a daily driver/weekend roll race/drag car the 15's with a good ammt of air pressure let out would hook way better than the taller wheel setup, and they look better imo.
As a follow up I’d be interested to see a 205 vs 225 on the same 15” rim.
So it’s more about width than diameter.
you were just told the more tire you put on hthe faster you can go.
You CAN NOT PUT 225 on "15" rims.
@@alhalimi1383 if its 8' u can
IMO smaller wheels/tire combo is always better. Cheaper, lighter, better mpg, more comfortable ride, etc.
True. For a daily. They’re on a track tho.
I was talking about daily tho. However, you don't see F1 with huge wheels. The slightly faster lap time is mainly due to fatter tires, not bigger wheels. Of course you may have to go for bigger wheels for fatter tires, but that's an indirect reason since no one make wide 15 in wheels. Also I would say 1:22.5 and 1:22.0 is almost negligible. Pretty sure if he did several more times he would get variable results.
Carbrickscity I’m not disagreeing with you. And I understand that you’re talking about a daily. That’s why I mentioned it. I’m just saying that for track cars, mpg, comfort don’t really matter. And for some even price doesn’t matter. And yes. I agree with everything else about wide tyres etc2.
Well again I was mainly talking about daily, but you brought up tracking, so I responded. I was just saying in this video for his civic, 15 and 17 doesn't make a huge difference even in track time and to me it doesn't worth the time and money to switch it back and forth between road and track. And I am saying you don't see huge wheels in F1 cars, which is arguably the one top racing events. Wider tires is what makes the track time quicker, not bigger, heavier wheels.
Onizuka is agreeing with you idiot
The btcc originally fitted bigger rims in order to fit bigger brakes it looks cool but unless you change your gearing it is not something for the street other than looks
Thatnk you for callong them wheels and not 'rims'. Bugs the hell out of me when people do that. Keep up the great vids!
This is what I listen for when someone is talking cars, it's whether you know the person you are talking to knows anything about cars.
what about in between, try 16" I am really curious about those results and tire sizes
16’s would be in-between 15 and 17 in how fast they are because the main issue here in the dry on a tight race circuit with reasonable amounts of power and on same type of tire like 100/200 TLW tires is less grip and more gearing.
having a few extra MPH/KPH every gear to wind out the car and hold lower gears longer for more corners. So logically 16 would be in-between 15 and 17. If grip played more of a role as in he making too much power for the chassis or in the wet then Sometimes in-between sizes are better!
I bought hypers for my car because of this video. They look great amd i cant wait to throw my proxes rr on them
Is it even possible to do a 100TW tyre setup?
Nankang AR-1 vs Toyo R888R vs Nitto NT-01 vs Maxxis RC-1?
That would be a fucking awesome test to see
I just searched, "15 inch rims" and this video popped up. In the first minute i can tell its perfect. Im looking for wheel/tire info for my civic... The algorithm is getting too good.
Would have been interesting to see what putting the 15" in the rear along with the 17" in the front would have done to the laptime/feel of the car.
I have a 205/55/16 on my gen 9 civic and they give me pretty confidence when stamping on brakes or going into corners !
I like these comparisons very much!! Changing 2 parameters at the same time cannot help us understand which one had greater impact on the outcome though. Was it Width or diameter?
Both.
I have been a boy racer for 25 years,. My first car was an 86 pulsar,. I paid a set of falkens on 15 inch watanabes and really made the car better,. At the moment i drive a lexus hybrid 4 cylinder fwd and running on reverse staggered tyres on staggered rims,. 265 35 on 8 inch and 255 35 on 9 inch
Pilot cup 2 fronts and pzero rears,. Handling is the best
Mic audio is great on the track guys, kudos. Love it when I see the civic on the channel!
For good cheap tires, Nankang is hard to beat. Damn good pricing and the tires are actually pretty nice.
Will miss the bronze of the 15's! But the 17's look good.
If you are wearing the outside of the front tires, you need a small amount more negative camber to get the full contact patch at peak loading. Try a quarter of a degree, should fix the understeer problem as well.
Taller tires = longer contact patch. Wider tires = Wider contact patch. Usually more sidewall also = longer contact patch and more grip as well.
The 15s would be better if you could get the same overall width and diameter (as long as the sidewall is stiff enough to handle sideloading.)
If you run into an issue of exceeding the sideloading of the tire, running more pressure, or wider wheel with the same tire will usually resolve it. You want a little bit of an inward angle on the sidewall. Think triangles for stiffness same applies with sidewalls. Too much sidewall angle will cause the tire to go out of round, which reduces contact patch.
Taller is always better unless you can go really really wide, until you can no longer achieve enough downward force to properly load the tire. (too light of car/not enough downforce)
Another thing to note is that while the 17s will provide better grip with street tires as there are better options. If you are running race compounds there are a number of awesome and wide 15 tires you can get. (sounds like the time attack guy was in some sort of street compound class).
“Oohhh yah hey” lol Canadians LOVE IT 😭🤙👏
God dam that engine sounds beautiful 😍
15's are nice but the 17's look so much better to me
same
Awesome ending. Can't wait to get my 8th gen build on the road and finished.
Very cool test, but I agree, it ended up being very dependent on the track and gearing combo.
I have a 97' ex coupe, black as well 👌🏾 looking to upgrade stock wheels to 15s soon 🙏🏾
Good video! But in any case, your front 15 inch wheels are not wide enough to take full advantage of your tires. You would need an extra inch. Your front 17s would need an extra half in.
Also, the larger diameter helps longitudinal grip.
Thanks for posting your test!
Hey Marc !
Yep, fronts on the 15s need to be 9s, rear 8s... Here the fronts especially just kill the handling with that balloon fitment. Less grip, less turn-in, less feedback... less everything really. The 17s are closer to optimal hence why they're faster. I don't think they would be otherwise. But of course the more power the car has the more it can handle bigger rims without being hindered, to a point.
8:38 if you want to jump to the answer. Amazing video! Great content as always!
Thank you :)
So.. would 16s be the happy medium?
Low because it’s hard to find tires for 16 inch tires wheels
No it’s the most common rim size💀
@@Seeker-vo2tz for ek civics? Most common is the stock 14 or 15 inch..
@@ItsJustChase no the other dumbass said its hard to get tyres for the most common tyre bought
Damnnn 19/17 combo on the time attack car. I love 15” for 205/50/15 but I admit 17s are great for going up to 235 or wider.
You’d get the same feel from a 16” set up as the 17”
All I can say, is you can drive man. That's some of the best driving I've seen in awhile...
I loved this video. Definitely informative.
Rule of thumb stay with in specified fitment for best results
Why does no one mention 16's? That's my fav size, right inbetween 15-17 the perfect size. Getting best of both worlds
because tire offerings suck
Also on the 15's the difference was only .5 in. But in the 17's there is a 1in. Difference front to back. Awsome vids please keep them coming
I went bigger unlike everyone else in my class SMF in autocrossing. A lot of FTD’s😉🚗🔥💨
I had a 93 that my brother gave me years ago and I swapped the 13’s for 15’s right away. So I have been a firm believer for these cars a little bigger always helps though the tire scrubbing will cost you.
sick rhymes at the end dp lol
Sick BMW driver on the track!
That's it this video just made me want to make my own to teach the RIGHT WAY to pick wheel and tire size
I appreciate the attempt, but you’ve got far too many variables at play to really know what’s doing what.
Entertainment
seconded. great apples to apples comparison..../rollseyes
It's a real world test. No one goes up in rim size to use the same width tyre. People go wider tyre on a bigger rim. This is the common practice so no it's not a perfect comparison test but it's a realistic one.
@@toddxhiggins NO! UNLESS EVERYTHING IS UNDER IDEAL CONDITIONS AND 100% A/b TESTED, NO VALID CONCLUSIONS CAN BE DRAWN!!!1!!11KHJUIEFKLHJWEFKLJUUEFQKLJBN!!!!11!!1!!! *_MOUTH FOAM INTENSIFIES_*
@@toddxhiggins Since so many variables were changed between each tire, there is absolutely no way to even come close to a conclusion. Maybe wider is better, maybe less thickness is better, who knows? Maybe you need to increase width and diameter at the same time to have some gains? We're talking about results that show a
I have a Vq30det Nissan Cedric, went from the 205/60 15s to 225/35 19s and the difference was night and day. Love the look of the Rays but it’s winter anyways and I love hitting 45mph quicker. By the way, aside from being a badass Civic, it’s so clean too!
Haha the ending!!! But can you guys go wider 15 inch rim and then compare.
Well done! A couple of years ago Car & Driver published acceleration test that only proved that aluminum weighs more then rubber. Obviously, a bigger contact patch = less understeer on a FWD auto, but it was great to see the difference in real time - Thanks!
16" is the best of both handling/traction with comfort on the roads
clearly its not
even on my geo metro?
@E. Crowley ok! and I'm gonna keep em clean!!
yea for 100HP car..
@@krusher74 13s but i keeps em clean
I like the small wheel big tyre look especially on old school cars but it all comes down to what is fastest at the track.
he went to 17 inch but id say a inbetween would work prefectly
That Honda sounds fucking amazing!!! I love how the Honda Haters are nowhere to be found... Have they been silenced?
😂 stfu
@@varsity2845 found the snob.
Came here to see the 15 vs 17 inch comparison, but just got distracted by how damn good that Honda sounds
The tires and wheels should have been more simlar like same width, tire diameter and the type of wheels so the only difference would have been wheel diameter
Leofred I think they were trying to show if the increase in weight and overall Wheel diameter could be combated by an increase in tire width. Not so much a completely direct comparison between 15” and 17”.
The reason people go up to 17'' is to run a wider tire, so we felt it was less relevant to compare the exact same widths since in the real world people go up in diameter so they can also go to a wider tire in the process.
Speed Academy - Changing tire width, tire sidewall height, tire weight, wheel weight, wheel width, and wheel diameter all at once is lot of variables to change in unison and then draw accurate conclusions. Can you say the changes are width only? Mostly width? Tire size? Sidewall changes? Seems like it won’t really answer any questions with precision.
For me, it was the old tyre vs new. The 15s were singing.
@@wobblysauce they were both brand new for this video
Ugh all these comments about science and true variables, get over it and enjoy, these guys make great content
You can still get wide tires with strong side walls on wide 15" wheels. Great video, but not the greatest comparison.
If you have traction issues I would use the bigger wheel, it will help...
If your car hooks up fine I would rock the 15’s for a lighter setup and quicker acceleration.
Bigger= always better, that’s why I race my civic with 24” wheels and tires
If anything I must say that the engine sounds funking great both inside and out.