Terminators in Warhammer 40K 10th Edition - How Strong are They? Datasheet Review + Tactics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- Let's talk some space marine datasheets today with a look at the Terminator Squad, Terminator Assault Squad and Relic Terminators...
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0:00 Intro
0:40 The Models
2:12 Datasheet and Durabiity
4:53 Ranged Weapons
6:16 Melee Weapons
7:47 Fury of the First
8:53 Terminator Assault Squad
10:15 Relic Terminators
11:36 Buffs and Synergy
15:39 Chapter Benefits
18:40 Overall Thoughts
20:13 Outro - เกม
Interesting note:
Deathwatch Termie Squads are also where you can take Chainfist or Powerfist even on the Sergeant.
That having been said, surprisingly, on the 40k army builder app, Deathwatch can specify whether they want their own specific Deathwatch Terminator Squad, or the “codex standard” Terminator Squad.
A low key detail that could be useful if the difference between points means being under limit/just right/going overboard.
Had a game yesterday where I got to use my Terminators against Tyranids. The storm bolters are no joke for clearing chaff and with the defensive profile of a 2+/4++ (plus the 6+ FNP from Black Templar Vows) they were able to tank three turns of heavy combat from a very silly Tyranid.
Starting to see why they're so well enjoyed, as my boys in 9th never lasted long lol
They’re also great in chapters that use librarians getting sustained hits 1 on 44ish shots with rapid fire on
There should be an entire separate video on how cheated we were that the new terminator set doesn't come with the missle launcher ;.:
That's why I'm holding out for the multipose standalone set. Terminators need to lug around two giant drink coolers on their shoulders to complete the look
As a Salamanders player, I need that heavy flamer, so same here. I can't imagine there won't be a multipart kit with weapon options, I'd be extremely surprised and disappointed if they only had the assault cannon going forward.
(Also waiting on an updated Assault Termi kit, because thunder hammers)
It's because the push-fit ones are the Combat Patrol loadout. The full kit will come in time.
It is, at least, *just* the monopose set, and at least the assault cannon looks rather cool.
I had 5 missile launchers conveniently sitting round.
Auspex, my ever dependable, sleep deprived, beautiful man. Great video as always.
Would it be possible to do a video on the CSM Terminators and how they compare to the loyalist ones?
I feel that although they don't have some special rules like teleport homer, the spice of having Dark Pacts with rerolls and free resurrecting terminators (if Tzeentch and with a chaos lord) is going to be really strong, plus having the combi bolters with lethal hits all the time is going to up their lethality a lot.
I haven't play a game of 10th yet, but when I do, I'll be running a 10 man terminator squad with a chaos lord or maybe Abaddon.
Last time I played, my opponent had a squad of 10 CSM Nurgle terminators. His ability to give all of them lone operative was just ridiculous since I was playing a shooty sisters list.
The Sergeant having an inferior weapon is weird, but the balance 'tween the fist weapons is on point
Using three Cyclone launchers in my Deathwatch Terminators. Super deadly with hellfire rounds
Yes, brother. YES.
Assault cannons are actually mathematically better with dev wounds and arak missiles only being s9
@@siddharthasriramoju7291 not with hellfire rounds
So many likes now? Come on as soon as deathwatch is good everyone is playing it 😂
@@lukeit7949 Against infantry true but against tanks assault cannon is better
One thing about Space Wolf Terminators is they can all take combi-weapons, which works decently with Fury of the First. Should give them some reliable MW output for hitting other heavy infantry with. And their Pack Leader can swap out their Power Weapon too. Can swap the whole squad to Assault loadout.
I wonder if they wil ever fix the typo for the heavy weapon though : (
The Sergeant being weaker in a game about heroes is such bad design.
I've never understood why, of all units, it's Terminators that really lose out in that regard. Possibly it was different in 2nd Edition or thereabouts, and them having a sword remained a holdover ever since, even when they got a lot worse.
@@TechbotALPHA yeah the terminator sergeants power weapon should be at least be a relic power weapon that does 2 damage. Having it only do 1 damage is awful and straight up worse than a power fist.
Relic terminators dont have that problem, the relic terminator sergeant can take a power fist, but the problem with relic terminators is you cant take a cyclone missile launcher. Free cyclone missile launchers are so good.
@@TechbotALPHAused to be you could load Sergeants up with additional wargear, so they were useful for that. Unfortunately they never had many weapon options like other squad Sergeants, and the game has changed a lot, so they're a weird hangover of the past
It's possible the upcoming multi part kit may add some options, guess we'll find out soon
Well in I know that in 5th ed when initiative was a stat that determined who went first the sword was great as the sgt was able to chop a few guys up before the enemy went as power fists and thunderhammers went last as they made you initiative 1 whereas marines were like initiative 4 or something like that.
@@TechbotALPHA I've heard it's a holdout of the old Initiative system and Heroic Challenges; Power Sword had a much higher Initiative than power fist so it stuck earlier in the phase, and it was needed so Sergeant can fight more effectively in duels.
Thank you for covering these iconic units!!
I feel like they should upgrade the sergeant to a relic power sword. I mean, from a lore perspective, wouldn’t a terminator realistically have a relic blade, seeing as they are among the first of their chapter wearing the peak space marine armor? I mean rules wise they could make it slightly worse than the one characters have, but it should be a slightly buffed up power sword at least.
I felt it was fucking weird to have such a weak weapon. You are gonna tell me that Veteran Bladeguard are given Master Crafted Power swords, but the Sergeant of a Terminator squad gets a NORMAL power sword? What the hell.
I think that's underselling Arjac's potential to use the unit's homing beacon rapid ingress to get in close and start smashing enemy characters off the table with his free epic challenge with full rerolls.
Also missed the Space Wolves Terminator Battle Leader who is the only Terminator Lt. (other than Arjac, I believe) allowing them to join any of the Terminator Captains to add Lethal Hits to the unit.
Deathwing strike master from DA gives lethal hits too can even take him with Belial for an absolutely monster of a brick
Deathwing Terminators are probably the best Terminators in game right now. Fury of the first on Assault Terminators? Yes please.
Except for Thousand Sons terminators
Deathwatch would be a strong contender... 3 heavy weapons per 5 models, along with adaptive tactics etc..
Not to mention in Proteus kill teams, 4 terminators all with thunder hammer and storm shields, 4 veterans with Deathwatch thunder hammers (the strength 10 ones) a vet with a heavy bolter and a biker with a vigil melee weapon and twin bolters... With a watch master taking thief of secrets... Not much is gonna stand toe to toe with that lot... Very scary unit.
They need oath though because of their S6 weapons and low AP. Honestly the sergeant does more with the flail.
Way better at soaking damage, but the DA index if you want access to -2 damage is weak sauce compared to the vanilla one
@chetmanley1885 not the Knights. The standards Deathwing Terminators can be outfitted with Hammers and Shields, and come with Fury of the First.
@@ChrisPrice12oh my bad. Yes the regular ones are a good choice. The command squad isn't bad either, the additional utility the not character ones bring is a bit of a trade off for Fury, but they've got some neat toys.
I've mostly been playing Combat Patrol, and specifically Space Marine Combat Patrol, so for once I actually have some experience (Even if they have a slightly different datasheet in that gamemode) with using the unit this video discusses.
Overall, I would say their biggest weakness is probably that they can't deepstrike in closer than 9 and that they tend to have a somewhat low damage output outside of melee. They are very much going to take a round of shooting, and assuming the enemy has a lot of special or anti tank weapons that can very easily end up being very painful.
Still, when it comes to fighting for midgame objectives it's pretty hard to argue they aren't the best. Aggressors have a few busted combos that theoretically allow them to compete. But the lack of deep strike and invul means you will want some kind of transport.
I really can't stress how good Assault Doctrine can be for a Termie Squad if you manage to utilize your Teleport Homer. Even if you can't and you force your opponent to place a unit on top of it to screen and displace them, you can still use Rapid Ingress for 1CP after your opponent has moved to dump these guys down somewhere they can't be shot then storm through buildings for example with an advance and move for a potentially extremely easy and short charge. Doing this with a big blob of Terminators feels extremely scary, but even with a small squad of 5 with a Librarian leading them I was able to drop, move, advance, and then make a very short charge into an opponents Fire Prism during my last game. (Poor guy used Phantasm on it and I was still able to get the 8" charge after getting a good advance roll and parking myself right outside engagement range)
Only thing I don't like about the Homer is the 9" rule. I'd say 6" given that the opponent knows exactly where the thing's gonna be.
Rolling with my relic terminator boys into 10th
Thanks for the video
please help me, in core rules, Deep strike says you can deploy as reserves after your movement phase (any movement phase), including turn 1? unless you are identified as strategic reserves which specifically says you cannot deploy as reserves on turn 1. is that right? or am i being mad? this is spectacular for terminator heavy armies :)
Im guessing that the wolf guard terminators review comes with the imminent Space Wolves review?
Hi all I have a Qn, if I'm bringing 10 models of Proteus Kill Team unit, 7 vets and 3 Terminator Missile, for that vets, can I bring 4 Frag cannon since it did not state that the every 5 models required is vets?
As a Dark Angels Player, i am loving the new Terminator stats. The Deathwing Command Squad is amazing to field, along with a Deathwing Terminator Squad, and two Deathwing Knights, lots of heavy hitting firepower, and with an Incursor Squad and Lieutenant out in the open basically screening and selecting a target to get a +1 to hit rolls for the whole army is going to make this even more fun. With Oath of Moment on top of it, its sure to be a very fun time.
Also, running either the Lion or a few Characters to buff my squads is making what was a weaker force in 9th, a strong contender in 10th.
Also, toughness 5 termies! No longer will flamers just incinerate my whole squad when i charge them!
You forgot to mention the immortal Deathwing Knights with a casual -2 dmg available in the Unforgiven task force
Good video as I'm building termis
I am honestly more inclined to take the normal Terminatorsin my Primaris Space Marines army now.
Simply because they're to scale with the Primaris, where the previous iteration felt too small for Terminator armour clad Marines side-by-side with the Primaris Space Marines.
For the loadout? Yeah, I'm firmly for the loadout the easy-to-build Terminators have.
I've always loved the storm bolters and assault cannon for the dakka.
And a power sword and four power fists have always been a good, and solid all-round cheap (read: free) melee option on dakka Terminators.
For melee Terminators? I'm tempted to buy a separate box of the Easy-to-build, and do an arm swap with the Assault Terminators for the thunder hammers and storm shields. But I'll be honest; melee Terminators will be competing with Bladeguard Veterans in my Space Marines army, so it's unlikely I'll be adding Assault Terminators to my army again.
The Relic Termies? Yeah, no. I'm not too fond of the aesthetics of either the Tartarus or the Catapractii armour variants.
Auspex my beloved. Are you going to cover the fight phase for 10th edition? I need to know all the weird interactions
You fight then they fight if you charge.
They fight then you fight if you don’t charge.
@@TheAHumanits a bit more detailed than that because of the possibility of more than 1 combat and stratagems. But if only 2 units are fighting then thats it
If I wanted to play an army focused on terminators what would be the best army/chapter and commander that would complement them
Man I hate that Vehicles and Monsters operate exactly the same way but they have different labels so they require different Antis. Can't we just label them as Heavy units or Armored units or something so we don't have to have this BS of "Oh you have some kind of weapon built for destroying big, heavily armored stuff but mine gets around it."
Yeah, saw a drukhari army full of haywire cannons (for knight vehicle spam) go into a chaos demons army and basically have to concede. It really sucks
Monsters can ignore ruin walls, vehicles cannot. And mechanics can repair vehicles. There's plenty of differences.
@@anthonyskrzypczak9437 it’s mainly for keywords. A lot of armies only heavy guns are keyworded for vehicles, so if you run into monster mash, even though you have dedicated “anti tank” you’re completely screwed
Yeh agree they need to change it, especially with so much high toughness stuff, you now have multiple important melee based units that basically have to go fuck themselves against high toughness units and even if they have something to combat that, it only works against certain things.
@@imduranthaywire as an example is specifically smth that wouldn’t affect monsters the way it does vehicles tho? i don’t like 10th in general or even disagree for many examples but haywire is one of the ones where the separation makes absolute sense for what it’s representing
Which is better though 190pts of Terminators or 185pts for heavy Intercessors meat shield and a Captain with a powerfist giving the unit the lance stratagem each turn?
I love bringing 10 assault termies with a captain and ancient. Expensive like crazy but dear goodness the results. Usually they end up in my opponent’s deployment zone at half time, completely unstoppable. Largely because my opponent took their previous turns firing everything at my two land raiders (which don’t carry the termies btw). While the Ancient is as expensive as the Captain, what makes it so great is that even when the squad is bloodied, it helps to compensate for their losses by ensuring more hits and wounds land for each attack. Plus the Captain with the free strat is awesome for Armor of Contempt and making them extra tanky
Edit: specified what the land raiders carried
what models are relic terminators? also do we think they will be phased out in the new codex?
They're the 30k terminators, the cataphracti and tartaros terminators. IIRC, last edition they mixed them into a single profile, being the relic terminators.
I really hope they don't dissappear, I'm really counting on them for my games xdds
Just a tip for me: but is really necessary a unit with objective control of 2 or higher?
I’ve had players concede in response to me reviving a terminator in my Deathwing Command Squad after it took most of their shooting to take down 1.
Very interested to know how you think these terminator squads stack up against the Deathwing Command Squad and the Deathwing Knights
When is “at the start of the battle”? Is it before the deployment phase or during or after the deployment?
Did you ever figure out the answer to this. I used my Terminators on the weekend against a much more experienced player and realised neither of us actually knows when the Teleport Homer is actually supposed to be placed down. Couldn't find anything that actually outright defined when the start of the battle is. Is the start of the battle after deployment but before rolling to see who goes first, or is it at the start of the first battle round and you place it then regardless of if you are going first or not?
The fact the Termie Ancient can take a TH and a SS (separately even, if needed) AND can join a Lt or Cpt in a squad is a *huge* reason to wanting him, on top of the +1 OC that compensate one of their few weaknesses
Edit: I guess I should have specified this is worth doing only with some special termie squads like Deathwing or Deathwatch, namely those that can have both melee and special ranged models (both DWi and DWa can, so TH/SS + some heavier gun, the former can give access to the Pennant of Remembrance and the latter can take 3 Cyclone ML whether if 5 or 10 models), if the opponent has been careless you can deep strike in midfield, if they have been *very* careless you do on home objective directly, regardless you have from better-than-average to good generalist firepower compared to normal termies AND the durability & melee power to take home objectives
It adds 90 points to a unit that's just not that good. 595 points for some mediocre damage that'll get focused down hard.
@@chetmanley1885 i played 10 terminators + ancient + lysander 4 games and i stopped : they are tanky yes but opponent can easy dodge this block who take 1 objective, not more for 600pts.
Enjoy your 600+ point unit that moves 5” & puts out almost no damage at range.
They are overcosted, I think the only character buff that really makes sense is a Termi Captain, because you can re-roll charges which is very important for them to get into melee combat, especially after deep striking, but also gives them free strats so can basically armour of contempt them for free every time they get shot at so you'll be using that 2+ save more often. Even then for just 5 and the Captain it's 300 points and you are not getting much offensive firepower and have a very slow moving unit.
@@tajj7 chaplain as well, but captain is probably better. They need to be 100+ pts less.
Really hope the standalone kit brings some more guns. Plasma. Grav. Grenade harness. Heavy laser. Etc.
You mean the already existing relic terminator set?
@@pepi560 that's got a plasma cannon in it does it?
@@pepi560 and a grav cannon?
I'm enjoying using my Terminators in 10th edition!
hey guys what are your thoughts on taking power fists and chainfists in a squad?
Would "Fury of the First" over rule Stratagems like Smoke or whatever too? And how do i get some Cyclone launchers for these badboys? I guess wait until the offical box releases?
Would you run these as one 10 man unit. Or two 5 man?
As a non-marine player, myself and all other non-SM comrades at my FLGS are frequently realizing our lists should just be optimized around immediately deleting terminators on overwatch. They're the distraction carnifex of 10th. If your list can insta-kill termies in one round of shooting, odds are it'll kill everything else. The 2+/4++ is a damage gate for any list.
The first time I realize the power of the devastating wounds were from the assault squads. 1 captain leading a assault termy squad DESTROYED my opponents Primaris Crusaders with the freaking Helbrect as the leader.
The combo was the Lethal hit vow, Fervent Acclamation (chose the sustain hit vow), Crusaders Wrath. It just destroyed everything.
Random question if my opponent has something and deep stoke and I kill everything else on turn 1 so they can’t deep strike their following turn do they just skip their turn
What would prevent them from deep striking exactly?
@@Metallicerciful it being turn 1
@@hugopringle1283 I did not see you said turn 1. In that case you destroying has no connection to this whatsoever. They cannot deep strike on turn 1 because it is turn 1. Unless they have units which bypass this rule, there is such ones.
@@Metallicerciful thanks
You win the game, actually
Wolfguard Terms with Combi weapons and librarian for sustained
There are few things more satisfying to a Deathwatch player than plonking a couple of Storm Shield Termies into an otherwise squishy unit, and watching your opponent's eye twitch as they realize how many incredibly tanky wounds they'll have to shoot through to make a dent.
To say nothing of the OTHER Termies in that unit with heavy weapons 👍
I like the trend towards combining primaris and firstborn units, since most of my problems with the primaris style is the change from firstborn's general flexibility and mixed equipment for hyper-specialization. Give me primaris tac marines and devastators and I'd be willing to ignore the asspull of lore they made to justify them.
Wait wait do the shoulders actually line up properly?
Point you've missed: In a Proteus Kill Team, and only a Proteus Kill Team, Terminator Thunder Hammers' Attacks and WS stats are swapped.
They attack 4 times on 3+ instead of 3 times on 4+. It's pretty solid for a melee Proteus team which is also packing heavy hammers.
Theoretically, if an opponent just sat a unit on the teleport homer all game would your unit just be stuck and unable to drop in?
They wouldn't be able to drop in on that teleport homer for free, but they could still use rapid ingress somewhere else for a command point or just do a regular deep strike. I don't think they have to use it on the homer.
@@declancarroll3131thanks for clarifying!
The Monopose is the Mortal Enemy of the Kitbash.
Wolf-guard terminators still have to give up both their power fist (and any other melee weapons) and storm boltor for any heavy weapons 😂. *Sad space viking noises*
Would "Fury of the First" over rule Stratagems like smoke or whatever too?
And how do you get Cyclone launchers for these badboys? I guess just wait until the official box of them release?
I think forgewolrd still has an upgrade kit for iron warriors siege breaker terminators. It comes with 5x cyclones In there
I wonder if i still can build full terminator dark angel army in 10th?
You can, but you shouldn't. They're not as durable as they seem and they've got pillow hands.
But dark angels have access to enough terminator datasheets to make an army
@@chetmanley1885 you can but youll lose. you wont be able to kill anything with T9 or higher very effectively. And your ability to control objectives will be lacking. You can absolutely build a heavily terminator centric force (~3-4 units of terminators) if you address those other two issues though.
That strat with other of moment, in that docyrine, with a captain around a special rule. Simple, not simplistic?
I dont know why but i thought this would cover chaos termies too
It helps that they are really the only mildly efficient SM melee threat.
Did you just forget that Bladeguard exist?
@@forgedwarrior20 No, but honestly...they aren't that effective a melee threat in my estimation. A lot of this stems from melee struggling in general, and Marines not being great in melee in particular, but they don't quite have the toughness to stand in the open, they are limited to squads of 6 which limits the efficiency of character buffs, they don't deep strike.
@twilightwyrm To your last point, they can. In drop pods. But I will say they are a lot better than your estimations give em credit for. I just fought chaos the other day and my 6 bladeguard killed the last 2 terminators Abaddon had, killed him the next round, and then killed a forgefiend and predator. I only lost 2 of them. With some cheeky consolidations and whatnot, they can do hella damage
@@forgedwarrior20 the problem with bladeguard is theyre only toughness 4 and lost their 2+ saves which is kinda trashy in 10th edition. Offensively theyre extremely good but theyre more akin to glass cannons now that T4 doesnt mean as much and they lost their 2+ saves.
@@forgedwarrior20 bladeguard are overpriced at 33.3. S5,T4 in a T10+ S5+ meta. Needs a character to make them decent against anything other than infantry, which you will not see much of on the board other than GSC & orks, & you can't fit a character in an impulsor.
weird, aren't termies normally depicted with a wrist mounted storm bolter (and not as a seperate weapon?)
Nope, that's never been a thing
Only on characters and grey knights
I'm planning on running a 10 man terminator unit with a terminator captain and chaplin
GIVE ME BLOOD ANGEL TERMS AGAIN. and while you're at it give me the Blood Angel Tac squad again too please
Surprised this didn't touch on the chaos terminators, since while they have different buffs, they are at their core very similar in stats and options
would it be better to field these as squads of 5 or full squads of 10?
10. Better gain from buffs.
10 is more efficient for buffs, but a quarter of your army in one unit. Other marines, Eldar etc would love that.
They seem to be paying a huge premium for their supposed durability, which in a lot of matchups is non existent.
@@chetmanley1885 I guess if you're taking 10 in a big squad then you'd better be building your list around that not just throwing them in for the sake of it
@@101Phase building around lynchpin units is fine until the lynchpin unit is removed. Obviously you don't casually throw them away, but they need to do something to justify being there.
So they're holding ground (and getting killed) or going to take out a key target (then getting killed).
It's not a bad idea, it works with the right unit, like lychguard, but these guys ain't it.
Units of 5, there is no damage output to boost with a character, unless you're facing hordes. Better to be in multiple places and possibly have your opponent overkill a squad.
The changes made to force organisation in 10th, and these new terminators/stats, have made me regret investing so much into Heavy Intercessors and other Gravis armoured units :(
Do NOT feel bad about that. Eradicators are so good. Heavy intercessors are unreal for surviving on objectives. Inceptors decent disruption unit.
heavy intercessors are the 1 of the best units for points in the index
Here waiting for new Assault Terminator models….
played my first 10th ed game yesterday my bloodthirsters greataxe killed 5 chaos termies and a sorceror in termie armor in one round of combat. not afraid of termies.
Bloodthirster like one of the best melee units in the game?
@@richardcollins9356 Ye not a great comparison considering the points value, obviously big and strong units like Knights and Bloodthirster can kill them much easier than others.
@@richardcollins9356 cheaper than the terminator unit tho
I killed 10 with a unit of Nobz which cost half as much. They massively overhyped the durability.
@@Metallicercifulbloodthirster is like 5 points more than 5 terminators and a librarian.
Personally i put a 3D printed missile launchero n the gunner and a stormbolter on his butt, so i can play both variants. Everyone else got chainfists i had left over from the relic terminators
Terminators are fine. They have underwhelming damage unless you take 10 and a character. But then it’s a giant points investment that I don’t think is quite worth 500 points
for me, they are beautiful but expensive and weak for their legend : storm bolters are rapid fire 2 but it's weak (S4 ap 0 is strong vs nothing), power fists are ok tier and thunder hammer have a huge problem : hit on 4+ no reroll ==> assault centurions are better on melee (they hit and wound better). The thing who save them is they are tanky and they have deep strike.
They are fine against horde armies, but no one is taking infantry so their guns and toughness don't work against tanks or anti-tank weapons which are very common. I saw Bricky play guard against a lot of Death Wing termis and they absorbed a lot of his fire. The toughness/strength balance in the game is off and units like termis will suffer because of it.
Not as strong as they look on paper from my experience. Meganobz thoroughly outclass them, even if they can't shoot.
I've had a unit of power klaw Nobz (not the mega variety) clean out full units of terminators for half the cost, one unit is fun but the meta is so messed up even with the terminator statline they're nothing special.
Your opponent had horrible rolls and didn't use stratagems. Because that shouldn't happen
Always going to be results that fall on the outer edges of the bell curve, like a Fire warrior downing a Demon Prince. Play that exact same melee again and as long as you aren't playing a total new player, wet behind the ears the maths says you aren't going to win like that again.
You get oathed, fury of the 1st'd and a strat laid on top and the termis are going to make a mess of you. That's before we start throwing multiple termi HQ units in there as leaders all sharing dumb abilities.
Everything outclasses space marines.
Worst army since the game was created back in the 80s.
@glitch200 You sound like you've been tabled by marines one too many times. Sucks to suck. 😂
@@forgedwarrior20happened three times, while still not a huge sample, I think you're over estimating how tough terminators are.
I find it funny that the assault terminators don’t get “fury of the first” - they been booted from 1st company?
uuuuhhh assault marines have never been first company of any chapters.
@@wischfulthinking I meant assault terminators
@@darko-man8549 ah ok makes sense
6/10 unit - Way too high a point cost for a generalist profile.
Basically pointless in land raiders (who are also waaay too expensive) due to rapid ingress strat.
Their weapons continue to be sad and underwhelming.
The only reason we have upscaled terminators is because gravis never managed to catch on, on the coolness factor. I’m entirely convinced GW intended to phase them out.
yah because they never gave us a flexible weapon loadout & are stuck on 6 man squads randomly.
@@wischfulthinking and because they’re kinda ugly and have no character.
Ya to me it seemed like the aggressors and Phobos units were initially meant to be the new termis and scouts, but people loved the termis too much to let them go.
Also I’m with you. In my estimation termis need to be like 185. They only threaten in melee but also aren’t that impressive in melee unless you’re taking 10 with a chaplain -but then its 500 points!
Ten Black Templar Terminators with a Chaplain in Terminator Armor with T-Bones woooooooooooooo chonky boys
Well, in today's game my Blightlord Terminators destroyed most of my opponents Orks.
proteus kill team is the dumbest unit idea. you mix the fastest and slowest ground units along with optional to put in regular marines for same price as bike or term
For a lot of these, it's like they were expecting the Combat Squads rule to still be present...
I think it was 2nd edition where you rolled two dice for armor saves on Terminators and both had to be a roll of 1 for you to kill one.
It was. Good times!
Did Auspex bite his tongue before this episode? Sounds like he's got a lisp suddenly.
The new models are great and their rules are ok but they have no business being 41 points per model. Wraithguard are toughness 7, with a 2+ save, 3 wounds and they have strength 14 guns or can have multi shot S10 guns, yet terminators who are lower toughness, have nowhere near the offensive firepower are somehow 30% more expensive?
Wraithguard with ranged weapons have no invulnerable and you have to add the wraithseer cost to the unit. And terminators are better than shield wraithblades. So....no. They're fine. Stop crying
@@martinazoanabut but my Terminator doesn’t kill everything 😭 (I’m an eldar player so I love your comment)
@@martinazoanawraithguard don't need an invuln, nothing survives going near them
@@martinazoana But they are already toughness 7, which is a huge advantage as even S6 weapons are wounding them on 5s, they are also literally able to damage tanks and monsters EASILY, which is a HUGE advantage in the current meta because everyone is running around with toughness 10+ stuff. Terminators cannot even reliably damage that stuff in melee, which is their only real advantage over wraithguard, which already move faster as well. A base stat line 6" move, toughness 7, 2+ save, 3 wounds model has no business being cheap, even before you consider they literally are carrying a better than lascannon each. They are cheaper than Eradicators ffs, which have S9 Melta guns with the same range, AP, and damage, on 5" move models with T6, a worse save and 3 wounds, AND you can't field them in a squad bigger than 6. You are talking out of your arse either wraithguard are massively undercosted or termis are massively overcosted. Also no surprise as it's Aeldari the most OP and broken army in the game right now.
Space marines as tough as orks. Well at least they have armour right?
AssBurgers Tactix
If the terminator sergeant can’t take a power fist, then he remains “Brother Dieus Firsticus” as he was in past editions for me.
That's why I usually run Relic Terminators, they're 5 points cheaper and have a wider selection of weapons. No Assault cannon, but the Autocannon is strong enough to hold its own
Termies ain’t too good rn. Too many armies have a -1 to dmg ability so their melee (which is supposed to be their best way to attack) suddenly becomes near useless. They aren’t even all that tanky anymore due to many armies having access to devastating wounds which termies can’t counter. Their shooting is also quite lackluster. Not to mention any -2 to movement ability makes them nigh useless as they’re already slow as is.
All of these flaws and it’s 205 points for just 5. I could bring a repulsor executioner for just 230 points, why tf would I ever choose to bring terminators?
Well this is the fundamental issue with the game, they have completely broken melee against high toughness units by making some things just far too tough. Anything toughness 9-10 just laughs at most standard weapons. So everyone is just running massive monster/vehicle heavy armies and most elite infantry become completely useless against them. Add in points cost are all over the place, some things are massively undercosted and are just far too powerful for it, whereas other stuff is overcosted for what they can do, Termis being one of them. I mean forget an executioner, a Gladiator Lancer is 145 points, it has strength 14 lascannon with 2 attacks and D6+3 damage and built in re-rolls, plus then with its other weapons has pretty much as many attacks at lower strength as the whole squad of termis, and has toughness 10 and is only 3 wounds short, plus it's 70 points cheaper.
@@tajj7 Agree with you completely! I think the easiest way to fix it is just to lower point costs though rather than increase any. I field few enough units as is and space marines aren't even that powerful right now.
@@lughheim835 Yeh Termis should just be cheaper, they should be low 30s per unit IMO.
Terminators would feel a lot better if they were their 9th ed cost, or at very least cheaper than they are now.
.....why? 205 is already a bargain dude. Lol
@@forgedwarrior20 We must play different games.
205 is way cheap for a free cyclone launcher, if youre not using a cyclone launcher youre overpaying because thats baked into the 205 cost and its a much better weapon than an assault cannon.
@@Khobai even with the cyclone, which is like all other terminators units less effective do to the new toughness scale they're still over costed like most marine units are. Should the cyclone be a separate piece of wargear that you pay extra for? Yes. Are terminators even with a free cyclone overcoated at 205? They sure are.
@@timb.4516 Not even close to over costed. Ya'll just want everything for damn near free I guess. 😅
aggressors are miles behind terminators
Tbh i am a little bit dissapointed. Termis have T5 but fucking heavy interseccor have T6 and also 3 wounds ? What are they Smoking Up in GW headquarters
Termis also have a 50% chance to ignore damage (4++) unless it's a mortal wound. Not many weapons care as much about the difference between T5 and T6 as they do about 50% of damage just vanishing after the wound check roll.
@@rankcolour8780 still stupid that fucking Interseccor Units have the stats of custodes. They got massakared in the books by a Termin Squad.
Thunder hammers and stormshields seem really terrible when compared to powerfist and storm bolters. The shield is pointless, and powerfist is more consistent than thunder hammers. You are never going to choose hammers over powerfist. At least lighting claws do something different and are actually solid at it.
Hammers have Dev Wounds which puts them over the top. You can also take 5, regular terminators have to take a power sword on the sergeant (unless you're dark angels). There isn't a single target that hammers aren't better into, and with Oath the worse WS doesn't matter.
The shield is not pointless since it makes them 4 wounds, making 3 damage 'anti terminator' weapons inefficient, D6 damage less reliable, and mortal wounds take longer to chew through the squad.
Storm bolters do nothing.
Thank you for mentioning the extra wound with the shields, I missed it initially.
Let me know when the post-release nerf termies datasheet is out
In 9th I ran pure termies with 2 LandRaiders (yes they were bad) but at least they had tools to deal with everything on the table; even if I had to get to melee to use them. Now, they're fine if your opponent is running infantry armies. If your opponent is T9+, Termies are garbage pile. The inability to hurt T9+ turns this game into an even more swingy RPS matchups. Frankly I've dropped Dark Angels all together. No tools above Str9 means no table time in 10th. If you can't get str12+ in volume you're only playing the primary game, hoping not to get tabled, which is zero fun.
I’m sure once their kit gets released the new marine terminators will get plenty of options. Chaise terminators on the other hand list all their combi weapons for a shorty
Bolt gun and still have their terrible melee weapon load out nonsense. They are still terminators but damn it’s boring they just feel boring.
just bought the new terminator models and ready to turn them to chaos lol
They just dont seem to be able to kill stuff. Bolters are not great.
Thunder hammer assault terminators absolutely do kill
I think you should change the way you compare weapons options. Power weapon against termagants looks better if you consider that it has 4A rather than 3 for power fist.
As someone who loves stealth units, the fact that Terminators simply turn off my main defensive ability is a bit of a feelsbad. Once that 1st Company Detachment rolls out, I'll probably just be conceding versus Marines, at least until I can save money for more fitting models.
Second!
Compared with heavy interssors they look expensive
heavy intercessors are absolute trash in melee though. and you get a lousy heavy bolter instead of a cyclone missile launcher. and heavy intercessors cant teleport around. they honestly fill different roles. heavy intercessors backed up by terminators actually works fairly well though.
Did you go to the dentist 😅?
9th
arent wraithguard toughness 7 ??? thats the real tactical dreadnaught armour
What’s that gotta do with a video about terminators?
No chaos terminators in the video? Hmmm,.
Why would he add CSM termies to a video about SM termies?
@@Whoknows21356 I do not know, maybe because, weapon options aside, they are the same troops? What an odd question, man.
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6th? Lol 💪
Just on fucking time.