My caregiver has been in the US 5 years from Rwanda. She and her family are deeply Christian and not because of a missionary or colonialism but because Christ touched them when they went to a local Rwandan black church. Here they go to church every Sunday and are far better at it than I am!
Seen that last guy a few times. He has an axe to grind, the argument is just to justify the axe. I have seen people on all sides of arguments like this. I pray him a great life & a life changing experience, but odds are that wouldn't change his mind until he puts down the axe. That is a hard heart.
I think it's important not to judge people like that. They've clearly put up a big wall in their life which is gonna take time and love to bring down. We all judge but just try to love a bit more
As an Indian Christian he was straight racist , rude , ignorant and also very demeaning . I follow Jesus Christ as i experienced His love , grace and forgiveness , not cos my ancestors were colonised by the British. My gosh how can be do dumb to realize that you can't force people to follow something unless they follow by their own wish.
Cliffe and his son, who look for no honours are most deserving of them, for their very effectual work serving God their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Because of them we are greatly blessed by their soul winning ways.
You and your videos are amazing and you are a blessing and I’m sure God is using you to encourage many to learn about God. Please don’t stop doing such an amazing job. God blessed you and your family 💕
Merry Christmas to all my Christian friends on Cliffe's channel. I may have a different opinion on your beliefs, but I respect your views. May I wish you all peace and happiness in the forthcoming year.
But I do hope that when you feel empty in life, when you're depressed, when u close your door, alone in your room thinking what's the true purpose of life? Then, please think about Jesus. Just kneel down at your bedside, then in humility, speak to Him. You'll be surprised.
@@bugatti99vun Thanks for that message TGP, I'd forgotten I'd posted this comment until you replied to it. My message was heartfelt and sincere, i do wish everyone peace and happiness in life. As regards to me feeling depressed and lonely when I close my door, .. nothing could be further than the truth, I certainly never feel depressed and lonely, I have a job I love, I take patients to hospitals all over the South West region of the UK, for all kinds of treatment, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, dialysis, dementia, .. you name it, it is incredibly rewarding. When I get home, i am tired and aching and just want to rest, .. which is what I'm doing now, led on my bed, enjoying reading and replying to comments from people like yourself. I can assure you, I do think about Jesus, I'm unable to kneel down because of arthritic pain my in knees, but certainly I've attempted many many times to contact him, thats one of the main reasons I'm now a non believer..if he existed, he would know *exactly* what it would take for me to believe in him.
@@bonnie43uk wao. I wasn't expecting a heartfelt reply. Even TH-cam comments section can also be of good use if properly used huh. I'm glad you're doing fine and all. Really do feel happy for you. Perhaps you're living your life nicely, and didn't think too much of it. But from what I see, heard, close friends, people in TV, in the news, they, at some point in life despite of their achievements and satisfaction gained from doing good deeds, or we say realistically, being successful in life (money), there's still something missing, like a void in their heart. There's always this feeling of emptiness inside, not just them, even the old me. It's like, I just came back traveling with my buddies, it shud energise me, make me feel happy and all, but the feeling of that "void" always linger around. I'm not sure if you get what I'm trying to say. Some people even go to the extent of committing suicide. I just read my friend's FB post saying he was thinking of suicide, even though he's got a beautiful family, a son, a beautiful wife, etc. That "void" of mine was filled when I totally put my trust and faith in Jesus Christ. He is the one we all are missing. We human has a nature of wanting to find that "something" in life, something beyond human, beyond our understanding, beyond this world. And I'll cut to the chase and tell u, it's Jesus Christ. That's why theres a verse of Jesus saying "I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. No man comes to the FATHER (God) but by me. I'm not sure why God hasn't revealed Himself to you. But, I can advise you to "allow" God to reveal Himself to you in His own Way. It's like, when u try to get to know a new fren, unless he opens up to you the way he wants, you'll never get to know him properly. Same thing, if you don't open up to the new fren abt yourself, he/she will never get to know you. Same thing with God, u yourself gotta open up to Him, and He will open up to you for sure. And, to remind you. Your post was dated 4 years ago. And amongst all the comments I can comment, why would I stumble on yours? People say it's just random. but say, God want to reach you thru me. My comment once again rekindle your thoughts on life, on Jesus. Perhaps it's time I believe. Amazing isn't it? Things don't happen randomly, it happens for reasons. So, seem like God is reaching out to you, will you accept His call or not. And God reach people in variety of ways. Sometimes it thru person, like what I'm doing now, sometimes it's thru His words (bible), sometimes thru praise and worship songs, or even pastors, your friends etc. So, I'm glad you reply me heartily, and I will try my best to let u know that, Jesus do love you. He's waiting for you to reply as well. = )
Yes Rod I hear you and your reply that has prodded me to think, which I’ll comment on momentarily. But firstly please let me make mention of how marvellous it really is, that we have this wonderful medium called Quora, allowing us to criticise what we truly believe is worthy of some justifiable but hopefully helpful criticism, if it’s gentle enough. And as the medium of writing is rather new for me, I haven’t always written or been a writer, I have a novices’s enthusiasm for it, which I hope you can tolerate. I like your reply. I like the way you have written it. It is extremely polite and filled to overflowing with graceful diplomacy. The new thought, if I can catch it, that you have given me, has arisen from your comment about those who believe in God but treat people poorly who don’t believe. I think there can be, for some, this tendency of going to the extremes of not wanting to weaken the strength of our own belief, in either atheism or deism, by not giving the faintest hint of cowing down to the other guy who disagrees with us, and thereby quiet peaceful profitable diplomacy is filed away instead of being lavishly displayed. Hence some of us will get a bit stroppy. I have said some pretty dreadful things over the years, whilst hiding behind my pen. Which of course isn’t OK, but ah, if I can just learn from it and repent and improve, then it’s not all bad. Anyway that’s the plan. That’s my sincere contrite desire. But time will tell. This is such a delicate business isn’t it, this conversation of how to behave oneself when speaking to those with opposing views. But you made me see more clearly, and quite insightfully I might add, with your diplomatic style, perhaps to realise more clearly than ever before, that what holds true for you, also is true for me, although pole opposite points of view. In other words, if I am to take into consideration the proverb of, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, I need to be more gentle in dealing with others who disagree with me, For this is how I want them to deal with me, aptly demonstrated by your good example. Yes I do agree with you. Your sense of self worth isn’t under any attack from the idea of God’s existence, because your posture of atheism nullifies this. However I freely admit that this attack that you aren’t under is one that I suffer from, because I do believe in God the creator and Jesus, whom I consider to be the manifestation of God in the form of a man. But this is a most splendid attack upon my sense of importance and whilst it’s a fight I don’t want to loose, nevertheless I must loose it with all vigour. For in loosing I gain so much more than what I’ve lost. I gain a new enhancement of what God is. He become stronger. Fitter. More capable. More unbeatable. And what a defence it is. My hedge has turned into a walled city.
I feel like I have seen the beginning of this before. I listen to these videos while I work basically on a loop. It just seems familiar. eta: yep i remember the guy in the gray shirt / glasses
i’ve noticed “john” really lifts jesus up. the other gospels he doesn’t say he’s god. but in gospel of john he really turns it up a notch in gospel of john does anyone else think that btw it’s by far the youngest gospel as in it came around much later than the other 3
Wise words Bob but I think you can prove the existence of God. To me and others like me it’s obvious. Nature is more than sufficient proof for me. However the mind is an amazing thing the way it seeks the self preservation of its self worth. It can trick you by going to the extreme of believing what we shouldn’t believe. I might be a highly uneducated high school drop out but I’m no drop kick. It doesn’t preclude me from being a thinker. And I’m dealing with a full deck. In other words I’ve got all my marbles. And if you are a thinker as I am who began slowly putting it together over 40 years ago, you will arrive at conclusions that many others haven’t concluded, mainly because they haven’t put the time in. These answers are not necessarily found instantly. That’s why wisdom is invariably associated with age or many years, because goodly amounts of time are usually required for some of the important answers to really dawn upon us. Eureka moments and all that. And these answers cannot necessarily be found on Google and instead of them being validated by others they are usually rubbished. And this happens because most people are not completely aware of what’s really going on in the deeper recesses in their own minds and hence they are inclined to vehemently deny an exposition of it, as they truely believe, falsely of course, that the revelation that reveals how they are truly thinking, which is true, but for them it isn’t true, because as they don’t see it, they will invariably deny it. In many ways we have a natural tendency to not want to believe in the existence of God. And the reason for this is this. The greatness of God messes with our greatness and therefore our initial preference is for God to not exist. God’s greatness is certainly a problem for mankind which the atheists solve by electing to believe that there is no God and actually that works. Great clarity of thought results along with a greater sense of self worth and freedom. But just as the happiness gained from drugs isn’t actually good for us, neither is the clarity along with the self worth, good for us, that’s gotten by electing to believe that God ain’t there. If you lead a decent life but tell God to drop dead and take a hike. If you don’t get in your knees and thank God for your life and all that goes with it. If God became a man and dies on a cross as a sacrifice for you to inherit everlasting life but you say nah not interested. And if you don’t prepare for that new life to come by beginning to synergise with God by loving and obeying Him. Then, can you not see how unfit you’d be for that new life that requires this requirement. God doesn’t find us, we find Him, but not without looking for Him. Seek and ye shall find. The punishment thing isn’t actually a threat. As the horse with 4 broken legs must be destroyed, so to, is the worthless soul destroyed in hell at the end of time. Man can destroy the body but only God can destroy the soul. The snuffing out of those souls who have carelessly not known God might happen very quickly. The effects of this destruction is eternal but there is no eternal burning of souls. The bible is clear on this subject stating that they will perish there. And how can theybperish and still be alive. It’s impossible. Also it states that Satan, the great deceiver, will be ashes under our feet which is further proof against the dreadful notion of eternal torment. But let’s be clear. Whilst I say and others like me say that God exists, validated by our own personal experiences with God, however, it’s not just about believing. 400 years ago everyone believed in God, but instead, it’s about obeying our creator. Most didn’t obey God 400 years ago and hey things haven’t changed today. I write for 3 reasons. I like to write. I like to try and point others in the right direction. And I like to defend God’s name from the shame of saying He ain’t there. Good luck Bob.
Hi Richard, You might be right when you say that the origins of religion might have predated wealth. It’s purpose is to stop the poor from murdering the rich but in the case of a native tribal chief who isn’t wealthy it’s to prevent uprisings. It keeps the boys in check. Obviously the partakers of religion don’t see themselves as being under control. However there are exceptions to the rule because I am religious and I’m not under control. But that’s another story. I like the honest way you talk about yourself. It’s a good way to go. I thought you were much older. You seem to be a wise person. I am completely uneducated. Self taught. I didn’t start thinking until I was 30. It began with a small incident. On one occasion in an absent minded kind of country bumpkinish way, I was shedding some leaves from a whippy green branch. And as I was shedding these leaves it it occurred to me that I didn’t know why I was doing it. So I asked myself why. To which I could get no answer, at least not immediately. But as time went by I got answers. But it took a long time. It’s was a hard nut to crack. I realised that it was in the realm of the achievement thing. In a very minuscule way I was achieving. I was achieving the shedding of the leaves. And I was doing it because it made me feel good. And I felt good because I felt worthwhile because I was achieving. It was along those lines. I eventually realised that we all want to feel important or worthwhile instead of worthless. Important instead of no importance at all and do on. And by understanding this small thing, I eventually came to understand larger things that pertained to human behaviour. Hence I gave you a hard time for not being a bumpkin like me. When you discover something for yourself as I did all those years ago , and I am still discovering, it becomes much more meaningful than reading it in a book or being taught by a teacher. The impact of it is greater. But start with something small. Something that you are doing but you don’t know why you are doing it. Puzzle over it. But don’t expect instant answers. What I am trying to say is that the lens in the binoculars change if you say there is no God, because the lens won’t allow you to realise that nature is actually the evidence of God. And this in itself is a most interesting subject. If I was to touch on it I’d say this. I say, as a home grown philosopher, that once God gets removed from the picture, so too are the diminishing effects taken away, that are caused by the infinite superiority of God. It’s a sub conscious thing which we don’t notice. And for those who have unwittingly inflated their greatness by removing the existence of God and His greatness, along the deflationary effects it produces, it’s almost impossible for them to believe in God, because simultaneously they would have to humble themselves to such an extent that it’s almost too much for them to endure. But they don’t see it this way. They trick the mind. It’s very subtle. They don’t notice it. They refuse to allow themselves to see what I and others like me see, Which is that nature is quite obviously the evidence of the creator’s existence. I believe God is invisible and always will be. But Jesus Christ is the manifestation of God manifesting as a man whom we can relate to. I became born again in 1987 at age 40 and now I am one of His loyal, faithful, grateful, obedient, followers. I believe He died in grief on the cross for my sins and was resurrected on the third day. I believe that the Bible KJV is the word of God. That’s where I am at
Yes David, when you put it like that, I do see what you mean. And I think in its own way, thinking this way, as you have described, there can be a time and place for it. But I do submit to you that the idea of deliberately realising our absolute insignificance to the creator has its benefits. We, through this true diminishment of ourselves, will yes initially experience a sort of removal from God, but the degree to which God expands in greatness is such that our God becomes so much greater, and what a strength this is to us. Having said this, there is no limit to God’s greatness, but what we are trying to avoid is the limitations we inadvertently place upon Him by the greatness of ourselves. Therefore as we decrease God increases. The God of Jesus Christ, God the father, is the same God for you and me but He limited Him less than we do because He reduced Himself more than we do. Therefore Jesus, was often flummoxed by the lack of faith by those around Him, but it was resulting from their incapacity or great reluctance to reduce their own greatness by realising God’s greatness. It wouldn’t surprise me if the real reason why the scribes were instructed to wash their pens before they wrote the word God, was to produce this effect of belittling oneself to obtain a greater magnification of God, and thereby have a greater confidence in Him in whom they placed their trust. Jesus walked on water because He wanted to but because His God was so great in His mind He believed he could and so He did. Peter tripped into that belief for a few moments and before he doubted he too walked on water. Thank you for your reply. I liked it very much.
Those who wrongly suppose that life is to be without its trials are those who haven’t fully matured. True maturity includes the realisation that a life without trials, ranging from matrimonial to financial, is a life that cannot grow our character. In times of trials we need support. Our friends, family and even the dog, if you’re lucky enough to have one. In life our whole gig is about being viewed in a favourable light by others. Actually God’s honest truth is, we want to be admired. The great punishment known as solitary confinement is immediately alleviated by being with people. Not to see them but to be seen. Pretty sick isn’t it. But hey we actually want to be seen. The wobbly prisoner doesn’t see it this way. Nay not so says he. What’s really going down is that he can’t even entertain the idea that this is so, all because it’s too much of an attack upon his sense of self worth. And neither do people want to face the fact that this is what they really are, therefore they run a mile from it. Hey it’s understandable. The desire to be admired is part of the natural makeup of man, but if gets out of whack, a man might wear a dress to try and get more. Therefore we obviously need to keep it in check. Some is good and healthy but too much and hey we start heading in the wrong direction. However God Himself insists with the first commandment for Himself to be admired although more specifically He tells us to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and all our strength. But the difference is that God doesn’t actually need our love and admiration. But He insists on it because He knows it’s best for us. Also if we love Him big time we will desire to be admired less. He knows that for us to overcome our great inferiority to Him, that is having a negative effect upon us, albeit subconsciously, we need to love Him. That’s it. Cut and dried. Actually making the switch to get on the God trip is no easy business. Many of those, whom you love, will leave you in droves if you make this transition. Check this out. The reason why they remove you from their company, is they no longer believe that you secretly admire them, all because of your new found great love of God. Here is another eye opener. Check this out. Your friends and acquaintances believe, rightly or wrongly, delusional or factual, that you admire them. But they no longer believe it when you tell them that you’ve become a disciple of Jesus Christ. Hence they do a runner. Interesting isn’t it. Do they know this. Absolutely not. And they probably never will. Christ is God in human flesh. He died for us and that’s another story. He says in John 3:3 that you’ve got to be born again. Hey it’s worth it otherwise it’s down the tubes stuff and you’ll probably take your family with you. OK so you’ve got your troubles but without them you might not be able to get your priorities right. Without them you probably wouldn’t consider getting your life right with God. When all is going well, you, in your erroneous opinion, deem that you have too much to loose, if you were to join forces with God. But if you’re on a loosing streak, and hey, we all have em, including Donald Trump, then you will be concluding that you aren’t quite as admired as you usually are, therefore you have less to loose. This is your chance because once you are back up on top of the mountain and you will get back on top, but when you are it’s too late. You won’t be interested. The transitions happen in the valley not the mountain tops. Now is your chance. I suggest you take it unless you’re on the mountain top. If you are not sure how to become born again, it’s easy. You can do it anywhere. On a beach. In a shed. Certainly on your knees. Say something like OK God, you’ve got me, I’ll do it your way. I repent, please forgive my sins, I want to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. That’s it. The hard part is telling other people of your decision. But blurt it out. Tell them that you’ve become a disciple of Jesus Christ. If you don’t do this, it won’t work. If you want to be a secret Christian, forget it. You can’t hide your light under a bushel. You probably know a few Christians. Phone them and tell them of your decision. Not only will they give you a few pointers but they will be rejoicing along with the angels in heaven. Happy Christmas Season, And God bless you. Paul, The reverentially respectful son of my very dear parents, John & Winnifred Hunt.
Christians have misunderstood the meaning of the verse in John 14:9 which says as follows: John 14:9: “…..Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. ….” Before understanding John 14:9, let us analyze some similar verses in the followings to understand the meaning of the verse. 3 John 11: Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God. Have all people who have done good also physically seen God ? Of course not. Again in John 8:19: Then they asked him, “Where is your father?” “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” Now look what Jesus said in John 14:7: “If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” So from now on, did all the disciples have seen the Father (God) physically in reality? Of course not. Here, Jesus is saying that if you know me, you know God i.e. if you follow me, you are indirectly following Almighty God. Seeing God here means knowing God as we can see from the verse. Here, Jesus is talking about spiritual matters, but the disciples are thinking of some physical matters in John 14:7. Since the disciples still did not understand what Jesus is talking about. So Philip directly ask Jesus to show them Father physically and that will be enough for them to understand what is Jesus talking about. It is mentioned in the following verses: John 14:8-9: 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Why did Jesus ask Philip that how can you say, “Show us the Father'? Because Philip was a Jew and being a Jew, he already knew that no one can see Father and live. Philip being a Jew also knew that heavens and earth can not contain Father. Because it was mentioned in the old testament as follows: Exodus 33:20: But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” 1 Kings 8:27: “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! Jesus also knew that and he also told that to his disciples in 1 John 4:22, Matthew 23:9 and John 5:37 as follows: 1 John 4:12: “No one has ever seen God; …” Matthew 23:9: “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” And John 5:37: “And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, ….” Here, Jesus is talking about spiritual matters to his disciples in John 14:7, but Philip and other disciples were thinking of some physical matters. So Jesus is saying to Philip that he had been with him for so long and still making such a silly request of showing God when Philip can not even look at the sun, so Jesus says that “Anyone who has seen me has seen the father” meaning if you know me, you know Almighty God as well. You follow my teachings; you are following the teachings of Almighty God. Here, seeing Father means knowing Father.
The last guy on the students microphone was sure to himself that skimming the literature in the topics he discussed was enough. He didn't really know the author's of the books written in the first century about Christ. He doesn't know the people he makes assertions about. He hadn't studied them, and he doesn't realize that when the Word comes to a civilization, they have hungered and thirsted a long time and God knows it. All they have to do is hear it. Faith comes by the hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God. It's another way of saying the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Spirit moved in a place and a people and changed them. Their desire is filled. By whomever the messengers are, that's immaterial. The Word is a living Spirit, Christ Jesus. The guy on the microphone learned catholic doctrine , and as a child. He did not hunger for the truth. He did not yearn under his oppression feelings. His version of the truth is not the original message, it's clouded by the intention and actions of people who kept adding to the practice of it. You can still get the truth from them, but you have to sort through their delivery and practices. They have inserted false doctrine and rituals of remembrance that leave you with more questions than answers. You have to be put through perochial school to get your answers. It's possible, but the guy on the microphone chose to turn away from it and made his decisions his way with what he thinks he knows. He would need prayer by alot of loving people who wanted to save him to get free of that spirit of Antichrist that fools him and causes him to resist knowledge and evidence to keep him from getting at the truth. He does not invite God in, he sneers and gnashes at the believer. "you people" he called cliffe and his son. Christians. As if that's bad. Jesus by your desire to love him, please give him a clue. Thank you for cliffe and the patience cliffe showed in this video. Amen.
As an Indian Christian too . I follow Christ not cos of colonisation but i experienced His love , grace and forgiveness . I follow Jesus Christ by own my personal experience which there is none in million avatars of hinduism . Also notice that guy was a catholic a pagan belief mingled with Christian faith in rome which has nothing to do with Bible and Jesus.
jesus never preached to the prophets it was talking about his spirit,the holy spirit preaching in the days of noah through noah,and the prisons in the verse is talking about sin,because sin is a prison they were slaves to it. spirits can mean your nature. so hope that helps.
If there is a time for all things then hey I guess there’s got to be a time for being real. Right? Or wrong, if you’re just another chicken liver, nice and staunch, waiting your turn to be interned six foot under, so you can pump up your daisies. That’s where most people are at. There is Kentucky Fried Chicken. And there’s Chicken Cacciatore and of course there’s the Chicken Livers busy trying to hold it together. I was one, so hey I know what I’m talking about. If it was really that easy being real then everyone would be doing it all the time, wouldn’t they. But they don’t. Why? Because its not always that easy facing stuff which we don’t really want to face, because it can mess with our happiness. I am not talking about those with the personality that’s called a real type person. That’s a different kind of real. That’s not the real I am referring to. I am talking about the real that is required to face things you should face or we should face, but we don’t really want to. To be more specific. I am referring to the great issues of life. Have you noticed that women are happier than men? Thought I’d just chuck that in. But we prefer to bypass the great issues of life so we can keep whatever happiness we have intact, that’s of course if we have any at all. How many of us are actually happiness personified. Probably not a lot. Obviously, we can’t be real all the time. Invariably too much of it can be too much. But hey, to never be really real, can be such mind crime that it’s just another wasted life right down the tubes, but hey maybe a happy one. Happy all the way to the grave but never figuring it out because it might bring some temporary insanity or unhappiness. I know I guy like this. His name is Lionel Nation. He’s a public figure in the USA so I can quote him. He don’t want to know. Kind of proud of it too. He knows it all. He’s got it all figured out. Have another Gin Lionel. They are so busy chasing the happiness buzz they don’t get any pearls. Pearls await them but they chicken out. They fudge the truth to suit. Both wisdom and wealth are very boosting, because their owners know they have more than the other guy. Sick isn’t it. But that’s the way it is. We appreciate having more than all the other Tom and Jerry’s out there. Wisdom which is priceless can be purchased at the cost of not fudging the truth. Solomon who was certainly one of the wisest men who ever lived said if you fear God you can become wise. Jesus Christ said instead of fearing man who can kill your body but not your soul, fear God who can kill both body and soul in Hell. If life is all about being happy then shall we call the happy lunatics in asylum our happy little success stories. Quite obviously it’s more important how you get happy isn’t it, than actually being happy. I was a terribly happy drunk. That’s why I drank. Am I happier now that I am sober? Nope. I was happier drunk although I hated the hangovers. OK let’s cut to the chase. If you try and seriously realise the greatness of God. His incredulous accomplishments along with His eternal existence. It’s going to do your head in. I did it today which resulted in me becoming incredibly dwarfed or diminished and hey I’m not some yo yo that doesn’t believe in God. I do believe in God big time. There is a tendency, perhaps initially, to feel somewhat estranged from God if we allow ourselves to really appreciate God’s never ending greatness. But imagine what it does to the atheist, if he or she should entertain this type reasoning. It must be 100 times worse. It can result in seeing our own incredulous supersonic insignificance to Him, which can manifest as feelings of estrangement from our God so much so that we could almost utter” my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me “ But if we run from this, then really are we any better than those who espouse the mad notions of atheism, which are nothing more than an escape mechanism to avoid the unfavourable comparison? The moral to the story is this. If you believe in God, then be prepared to take a hammering, if the comparison of flea and the universe starts dawning on you, with you being the flea. That is a truth. Unpalatable as it is, it is what it is. Compared to God we don’t actually compare at all. And hey that’s just too much for most people. But God comes down to our level. He changes Himself into a man. Jesus Christ. Our great high priest whom we can relate to. Our friend. Our God. Who laid down His life for us. King of Kings. Our Lord and Saviour whom we love and obey. God cut me a break and I went from being a yo yo that didn’t want to know, to a follower of my Lord and Saviour, my Redeemer, Jesus Christ.
No, I am not expressing frustration at the realisation of my diminished self worth compared to God. Actually I am glad of it, because it’s brought a freedom with it that a slave feels upon the realisation of the fact that he is sold into slavery for life, and comes to terms with it. I am gaining a solace from the realisation of knowing my place in relation to God. It’s truth. Why should I run from it. But there is more than this. By reducing myself to the nothing I am compared to God, it allows my realisation of God’s greatness to significantly expand, no longer impaired by my supposed self worth. Although we might know that God is unlimited, however we are significantly limited in our capacity to believe this, however to the degree that we can realise this will depend upon how effectual God can be around us. Jesus performed great miracles not because he had a greater God than us, no, not at all. He performed those miracles because He had a greater belief in God’s power, which came to Him through the diminishment of Himself, by allowing Himself to recognise His infinite inferiority to the unlimited God the father. It’s our own greatness or sense of self worth that stops us from being able to realise, in a greater way, the greatness of God. There is a difference between knowing and believing. I know God’s power is all powerful, but believing it is another thing. You are quite right to point out that not everyone believes this as I do but that’s simply because they don’t want to. They aren’t being logical. God is unlimited and infinite. How can we seriously compete with that. We can’t. It’s impossible. God is light years smarter than us in every conceivable way. Yes you are right. Atheism doesn’t really solve the problem just like drugs don’t really solve the lack of happiness problem. Yes sure you’ll get happy but it’s artificial isn’t it. And Atheism artificially brings a new clarity of thought, resulting from the stimulus of the removal of God, who is so great that His greatness denies us from being able to really rejoice over our manhood ,because compared to God we are nothing at all. I haven’t addressed all the points you have raised Richard but with the greatest respect to you, taking into consideration what you have said, I must say I am most certainly your superior when it comes to understanding the fundamentals of human behaviour. Because you are a book learned person you aren’t in my opinion really a great thinker. But you could be. I don’t really mean to sound pompous although I can see that I am coming across that way. I’m just telling it as I see it. Proof of this is your incapacity to actually realise that Napoleon is absolutely right when he says that the purpose of religion is to stop the poor from murdering the rich. You just can’t get it. If you were a thinker you would immediately see it but you don’t. You don’t actually really understand why control exists. I don’t want to put you down Richard but you are coming across as though you know what you are talking about regarding Napoleon’s statement but the truth is, you don’t really have a clue. You don’t know what you are talking about regarding this specific quote of Bonaparte’s. If you don’t know, you are better off to say you don’t know, otherwise by saying what you say about him, regrettably makes you loose all credibility with me. But that aside from that I am perfectly happy to keep on chatting. No problem.
I have so much love for god and others but not myself I am addicted to drugs and I still cannot simply say I don’t want to because I really enjoy smoking and drinking. I need help.
The second person who spoke to Cliffe is so self righteous in his belief that, the colonisation and lack of education within Africa, are the main contributing factor to Christianities success there, that it makes it difficult to listen to. His ignorance levels are off the charts. The argument that there is no evidence for god is totally one sided and ignorant from what I've seen. Those who make this claim typically have not considered the posibility of irreducable complexity being present in natural systems, examples of this can be found even in the most "basic" life forms studied by biochemists, such as cilium (i.e. basically a small organism which resides within cells, I am paraphrasing this so my description of cilium may not be 100% accurate...Feel free to google it if your curious). They also forget to consider natural laws, such as the law of entropy and other laws of physics, and how they can point to a designer (a common and simple argument used here is "if there are knowable (i.e. are able to be well understood)laws, then there must be a law maker"). I wonder what evidence an athiest would have for the universe starting from nothing. This to me requires more faith than believing the events which created our universe was started by someone/thing.
Yes there are different interpretations of the unlimited God, And those on the journey throughout eternity realise they will never cease learning more and more about the infinite God, because there is no limit to the infinite knowledge of the infinite God. Why doesn’t God, who is supposed to be omnipotent, make or change our world, and make it perfect? Could it be possible that because this world is as messed up as it is, it has created an opportunity for all, if they choose to love God, to become copies of God, in the form of Jesus Christ. What is easier for God to do? Become a man and suffer and die on a cross. Or make our world perfect? Obviously making our world perfect is easier for Him isn’t it than hanging on a cross. And as there are many who point the finger of accusation at God, it only seems fitting that some will come up with their own theoretical versions of His defence. Here is mine. When God wanted to create man He didn’t plan for man to come into this world of heartbreak. But as He looked into the future He saw the fall of Lucifer which would result in the fall of man if He created mankind. Therefore He was reticent to create man who would not only need a saviour in the form of Himself as Jesus Christ, but also would need to overcome Satan’s temptations along with enduring the mayhem caused by Satan. But aside from this, Lucifer, now called Satan, would reek untold havoc upon mankind. He would cause wars and bloodshed famines and pestilence and so on. The original plan that God had for man was to produce a happy species of reasonable intelligence without challenges although somewhat robotic in nature. However the introduction of the spoiler Satan into the picture unwittingly produced an even greater opportunity, never to be repeated for man, who wasn’t yet created. If man could resist the temptations of Satan via their saviour Jesus Christ, then their inheritance would elevate them to a status higher than the angels. They would actually become copies of God Himself, copies of Jesus Christ. Without Satan’s rebellion and temptations this wouldn’t have been possible. But what a price to pay. The carnage. The horrors. Even the birth of Christ would result in the slaughter of all the infant boys in Bethlehem under 2 years of age, by Herod. And then Christ would need to suffer the crucifixion. But the wisdom of God was at play here. Satan knew God’s plan for man, and he knew that his satanic mayhem was going to elevate man to the status of God, by trusting and loving God. Therefore Satan’s hate for man knew no limits. God realises in His great wisdom, which is beyond human comprehension, that this was a one off opportunity, never to repeated, to create sons of God. And whilst God realises this, He is also mindful that although this offer is available to all of mankind, He knows that few will take it.Matt 7: 13-14. Nevertheless the plus side far outweighs the negative side and God sees His duty to lay down his life for the good of others and therefore he initiates the plan for man to become sons of God. John 1:12 The above mentioned story is just a story. It might be true. But it might not. However it is simply a defence that’s offered as a possible answer in reply to the accusations of God’s tyrannical rulership.
The realisation that only a few will ever allow themselves to be persuaded to enter into the knowledge of God via Jesus Christ, brings with it a great dissatisfaction, to the servants of God. No matter how well we speak or write or teach, the quantity will always remain the same. Few. Matt 7:13. Conquer we never will although we we are over-comers. When Christ predicted in the scriptures that even His own resurrection ( Luke 16:31 ) would be insufficient evidence, He was obviously stating a mind blowing truth. Hey, those Pharisees who paid off the guards to say the disciples stole the body away, were actually anti God. And why? The answer is simple. It’s summed up in one word. Rebellion. And in all rebellion great or small there is power. Therefore for power, people throw their lives away. But hey they are happy thumbing their noses at God, mistakenly believing, that if it comes to it, God will understand their disbelief. It’s not complicated. Reject God. Ignore God. Express zero gratitude to God for this sniff of life. Yep you got it. Ye then become rejected by God. It’s curtains and it’s down the tubes stuff. And on that terrible day, those that told God to take a hike, will acknowledge that their fate is richly deserved. They will realise that they are ill suited to be with the redeemed who have elected to love God. For these ones who are actually anti Christs, it would be a form of hell to be with those who love God so ardently. Therefore they cannot begin their eternal journey with those who chose wisely because they would not wisely humble themselves in gratitude before the face of the living God. They perish. And although we sorrow for them, nevertheless it is mixed with a Godly joy, arising from our great hope of eternal life with our God who loves us very dearly.
Yes I suppose in a way you do bring up a valid point when you say that it doesn’t make much sense at all for God of such infinite superiority, to want to have a personal relationship with us, who are beings that are so inferior by comparison. It might be like us wanting to hang out with a snail or whatever your analogy was. Actually whilst it’s purported that God wants a personal relationship with us, I don’t think the bible actually states that. What God wants, is for us to become what he made us to be. Which is sons of God. God doesn’t need our love nor need a personal relationship with us, but having said that, He, for our sake, does want that to happen. He commands us to love Him so we can join forces with Him, in order to overcome the negative effects of our inferiority,resulting from His infinite superiority. You have overcome your inferiority to Him by saying, in self deceit, that He doesn’t exist. However this erroneous pathway will, in the end, destroy you. But God in the form of the high priest Jesus Christ is our friend. And friends do have personal relationships don’t they. Hence we have friendship with our friend Jesus Christ who is God, who has proved His great love for us, whom we love and obey. And now we are bound for heaven. A new kingdom. A new heaven and a new earth. A world of amazing love. And although we will be able to recognise what we once were nevertheless the new entity that we become will be as different as a rainbow to the colours in a coloured pencil box.
A true atheist invariably has the capacity to be real. And if we are going to be really real, we have to admit that if God actually does exist, then hey, we ain’t nothing compare to Him. The weak atheist not the strong atheist, will, at this juncture, do double back flips, trying to avoid this reality, if God indeed exists. Atheism solves this great inferiority problem, hence its appeal. If God exists, who has supposedly created everything, then hey, He has some real greatness huh. But that greatness, obviously diminishes our greatness doesn’t it. Why? Because we don’t even begin to compare with it. Therefore our greatness or worthwhile-ness is so insignificant compared to His greatness, that we can’t feel as proud of ourselves, as much as we’d like to, because God is so much greater. Get it? His greatness diminishes our greatness. But when we remove Him out of the picture and say hey He ain’t there, He doesn’t exist, we start feeling pretty good about ourselves without the big guy raining on our parade. That’s the real deal. But hey, the truth is that He does exist. Although you can feel good and start to swell when you pretend He ain’t there. Because actually it’s a pretence. A subtle form of pretension. But the bummer is that yep you’ll feel good alright being an atheist but hey it all ends bad. Nope it’s not going to be good at all. Heaven and hell and all that jazz. Reject God, He rejects you. God knows we have this inferiority problem. Right?It’s not rocket science. Wanna talk about it some more then give me a yell and I’ll say some more.
Maybe Jesus Christ originally came up with the parable of the sower as a way of coming to terms with the truth of the few. ( Luke 7:13 ) His words were never forceful or demanding. He used no great entreaties although he spoke with authority. Maybe He saw Himself as a sower, in order to avoid discouragement. Knowing that what will be will be. Outside of wilful control. All we can do is be good sowers who scatter the seed well and ask the Lord of the harvest to bless it. It is God who grows the seed into shoots. This is unseen although it is seen by all in heaven. The angels of God see and rejoice greatly ( Luke 15:7 ) when one sinner repents. One by one we point them to Christ and hey if someone hadn’t done a number on me, by sowing some seed, I’d be a careless one going to hell. Do not be deterred by those who accuse you of being arrogant for speaking with authority. Sow the seed Ye sowers.
I listened to this man talking to the crowd.Byt felt he should not the revealing his own sin,s to the audience about lusting after women??? Too much information about himself.People Dn,t want to know his fault,s or sin,s.Also I felt he was condeming a man about the discussion on Africa etc I felt he picked up the man wrong? And came over in a aggressive spirit against the man asking a question.shocked😮 If you,r going to answer question,s from a audience you have to have a humble spirit toward,s a audience not come over in a aggresive spirit.shocked😮😮😮
John Purcell, you and I are both interesting case studies of 2 people with all their marbles, or deemed by some as having intelligence, with our minds made up, but at opposite ends of the poles of agreement, as to the existence or non existence of a creator. In a way this is almost as fascinating a subject as, to be or not to be for God. Very strange. Because you and I both realise that if God does exist, And I wholeheartedly say He does but you must say nay, He by definition must be formless. If you were God and you made all the pigs and crocodiles and the sharks and Zebras, then why would you in God’s heaven want to look like me or a talking horse? Of course you could if you wished to but would you want to? And if so why? Actually I could be wrong but even though you marvel at the flight of an eagle I suspect you don’t want to be one. Neither do I. I could run quite fast as most lads do, and like all boys I did like to win too, but I wasn’t fast enough, however although my admiration of the Cheetah was sincere, I didn’t feel ashamed that he could annihilate me in a race. Therefore I submit to you that if you were God who made the sheep you wouldn’t actually want to be one. Nor would you want to be a human being. Therefore if you were actually the creator I submit to you, that instead of looking like some kind of sky daddy in the sky you would instead be without form. We might see the manifestations of your creative work, by the way how do you do it, it’s amazing, how is it possible, but hey there it is, But we aren’t going to see you are we, even in the form of some kind of mega enormous sugar daddy in the sky. What you are, if you are actually God, is so incomprehensible that we can’t get a handle on it. And how do you do what you do? How could you possibly make a shark? Surely that’s impossible but nevertheless we see the sharks which you have claimed to have made. Surely they made themselves. They must have made themselves. There is no other explanation. Either you as God did it or they the sharks did it. Or nothing did it and that’s even more perplexing. But you and your band of brothers and sisters of atheism say that no God could create such a thing. But as we know that God couldn’t do it, forgive the blasphemy for daring to say that if you were God you couldn’t make a shark, but as we know that it’s impossible for you as God to make a shark we are forced to believe that it either made itself OR nothing made it. Sharks in their own way are smart but hey they aren’t smart enough to make themselves, are they. Yes they can procreate but that’s where the buck stops. How did we get onto this shark thing? I suppose one of the frustrating things I am getting about you being God is how did you make the shark? How could you possibly do that? It’s simply not possible. But nevertheless there it is wanting to bite my leg off. Right!! Surely the genius of the shark, some genius huh, must have come together by natural processes. That’s the only way it could have happened. In other words it made itself, so to speak. I can understand that and accept that because clearly it’s impossible for it to be made or created, because who could do such a thing. Therefore from this perspective I am compelled to say that it’s impossible for the shark to be made regardless of the fact that he’s right there wanting to take a bite. How did he get there? He couldn’t have been made. That’s impossible. But there He is. Teeth and all. Whatever made him isn’t one of us. This we know. How could such a thing happen? The question is. How did the shark get made? Have we completely underestimated you? You are God,remember. Are you telling me I have to be like my boyhood dog, who didn’t try to understand how the refrigerator or TV worked because he didn’t have the brains for it? Actually I still don’t know how the TV works, but as you probably do understand it,then that’s good enough for me. Could it be that whatever kind of God we thought you were you aren’t that at all? Could it be that what you are is beyond our comprehension? And as we cannot get a handle on outer space never ending, or being infinite, neither can we get a grip on the infinite unlimited God, if you are indeed that God. I don’t think you are and neither do you but we put you in that place in order to understand better what you are if you were actually God. Where does this leave us? We still have the shark and his pearly whites. Buts let’s agree on something. Let’s agree that the God you don’t believe in is neither the same one that I believe in either. The God I believe in is, *unimaginable. *nothing like us. *without form *incomprehensible *compared to God I am nothing *I am almost non existent compared to God *God is love 💕 And what God is will never cease to be a never ending revelation, for those who are successful in obtaining the joy of living forever. It seems that we are limited in our capacity to understand the infinite unlimited God, in a similar way, that we are intellectually limited to understand infinitely itself. But it’s fun thinking about it. Whatever posture we use to try and get a handle on the expansive thinking of infinity, should perhaps also be applied to God who is so infinite, it gives a new meaning to the word infinity. To me infinity is a zone. That’s the best way I can describe it. Do you have to disappoint me by not thinking in these terms of infinity with regard to the shark. By the way. I didn’t like Jaws. However I did like it when the guy at the end, shot the canister in the sharks teeth and blew that turkey to bits. Very satisfying. The weather here in NZ today is warm enough for me to be bare chested, provided I am the only one who has to suffer the sight of my 70 year old pot gut. Have a great day John wherever you are. There is a Utuber called Cliffe Knetchle and his son who debate with young atheists on university campuses. He’s certainly worth a look. Good luck Pal.
I wouldn't say there is no evidence for the existence of some being that one could designate God, it could be argued that there is evidence (albeit evidence of a low standard) for such a being but there are a couple of things I would add to that, firstly, even if we could determine that some being must have brought the Universe and everything contained within it into existence (which we haven't determined of course), there would still be no reason to presume that it must be the same "Jahova" God that the Bible tells us about, for all we know, the Bible could still have been a made up book containing stories about a fictional God and the Universe might have been brought into existence by some other kind of being that the authors never really knew about, they could have just made up some God concept that might turn out to be partially correct or it might be way off, we just don't know. Everybody who has a belief in some type of God concept would try to claim such a being as "their God" if it was ever somehow determined that such a being must have been the instigation of everything else, for example, the Muslims could just as easily claim that this being was their "Allah", Rastafarians could claim this being is their "Jah", even Deists could also claim that this is the being that they have always claimed exists, all these different religions and God concepts could all make a claim on this being and unless this being actually comes out of hiding and tells us which God (if any) he is, we would still have no reason to be sure what we would be dealing with. Secondly, I mentioned in brackets earlier that the evidence for the existence of some being we could call God is of a low standard, so, let me explain this in more detail, to give an example, there are some people who would say "if there is no God how do you explain the trees and the flowers and life?" etc, now, whilst it would be true to say that in fact, there ARE explanations for many of these things that don't require us having to at any point say "this is where a God comes into it", it would be also true to say that there are plenty of mysteries which we don't have all the answers for and this is where many theists will then try to claim that God must be the one and only possible answer, we call it the God of the gaps argument but what those of us who are thinking skeptics would say to this is that just because we don't know the answer to something, there is no justification for us to then conclude "ah well....there must be a God then". What we should instead say is we just don't know and keep searching, we're not necessarily saying God isn't the answer, maybe that is the answer but what we are saying is we have no justification in concluding that God must be the ONLY possible answer and not anything else, that is our ACTUAL position my friend, not the way you put it, just saying "hey....you atheists are saying there is no evidence for God" is not really explaining our position correctly, what you are doing is creating a strawman argument, so, of course, it SOUNDS impressive and very persuasive to some who might be inclined to agree with you anyway, especially if they've never heard from many atheists and have preconcieved ideas about us, thanks.
John Cashin evidence is there but selective. Take a good look around. When most people look at the world around them, they see only the trees; they do not see the forest that is there. It should be obvious that God exists because of His creation, not only us humans, but the world we live in, the galaxy that world is in, and the universe that the galaxy is in. Our universe contains too much order for our existence to have been created out of chaos. We are complex beyond our imaginations and when you look at such a complexity, you see God and His creation. A mind is behind it all that is my belief and through observation and experience. We are apart of something so much bigger
@One Step Away I get where you're coming from and I can't even say with any certainty that you are wrong, the problem is I have no real reason to be certain your conclusion is right either, the only way for all of us to be sure is if this supposed being shows up and confirms it right in front of us all but that hasn't happened yet, at least, not on a mass scale, which would be the ultimate evidence because if we ALL experianced exactly the same thing wthout exception, nobody could deny it but when it's only a seeming select few that get these apparent 'divine revelations', the rest of us can't tell if they have really experianced something divine or if they have been hallucinating or if they're making it all up, how can we know for certain which is the case? Sure life is amazing, sure the whole universe is incredible but who are we to say that a God is the only possible explanation for it all? For all we know for sure, there could have been a way that it came to be without a such a being, maybe we have to accept that we will never know how everything came to be, yes, we find this hard to accept by nature because we hate not knowing, we have always had a lot of frustrating gaps in our understanding and knowledge which we have tried in the past to fill with ideas and theories that later turned out to make no sense when we learned more. You see, I suggest the God concept is one that our distant ancestors probably made up as one of those gap fillers, they could think of no other explanation so they concieved of beings or a being that was greater than human and that served to account for the seemingly unexplainable and this satisfied them all at the time, a bit like when we were children we were satisfied with 'magical' type explanations for things we could not get our little minds around but eventually we had to move on and work out the REAL answers which had nothing to do with magic or faries, can you see what I'm saying? Some of us are just no longer satisfied with "magic' gap filler type explanations and that is at the end of the day what God is, because, if we just say 'God did it...end of' that's still not really an explanation, we still don't have an explanation for HOW God supposedly did it other than via some mysterious magical, miraculous type power, now that's hardly an explanation is it? That is explaining a mystery with another mystery and then applying special pleading to it so that somehow it's okay not to question that.
Very cute Bob. Cute as apple pie. Perhaps punished isn’t quite the right word. Man can kill the body but only God can kill both body and soul in hell. God is the only one who can destroy the soul and it takes Hell fire to achieve it. God creates us for everlasting life. It’s another dimension which the word of God says cannot actually be imagined. Suffice to say it’s a whole lot better than this life. To gain eternal life after this life requires a new mindset. And without this new mindset, heaven and everlasting life cannot be accessed or acquired because of extreme unsuitability. This new mindset encompasses the love of God. The purpose for all mankind is to acquire eternal life, but regrettably most will, in various forms, reject God’s offer, and therefore in turn become rejected by God as being unsuitable to be with the redeemed in heaven. As there is no where else for them to go they need to be destroyed which requires destruction in hell, to destroy the soul so that the remembrance of it is no more. Therefore, although a person lives a noble life, however if that life is not accompanied by the love of God and gratitude for their life and obedience to God, via Jesus Christ, who is the manifestation of God in the flesh, they are then too ill suited for life eternal, and therefore destruction awaits them.
Merry Christmas everyone :-). Cliffe talks about people having a problem with 'sin'. What people regard as sinful is very subjective, there are lots of things that I don't regard as sinful, but perhaps a Christian would view it as going against God's wishes, or sinful behavior. I love admiring a beautiful woman, to me, it's perfectly natural, but I think Jesus mentions that if you lust after a woman, you have committed adultery in your heart (Matt 5:28). I don't believe that for one minute. Sexual desire is a perfectly natural human trait.
bonnie43uk sexual desire and admiring the beauty of a person aren't sinful. Lusting is when you objectify that person and 10 minutes later you're still imagining how well their body could serve you
@Niko, Do you realize that virtually all married women have fantasies about other people when they are being intimate, especially film stars, George Clooney is a popular sexual fantasy for women of a certain age, and virtually all teenage girls have sexual thoughts about pop stars and tv personalities.. it's perfectly natural and harmless. As I've said in previous comments, what we fantasize about is one of life's free pleasures. As regards to 'objectifying' women, what goes on in our own minds is totally our own business and no one else's, our own private thoughts don't hurt anyone. I'm 59 now, when I was younger I had a thing for Sophia Loren, a beautiful Italian film actress, I've heard her in an interview a few years ago say that she was well aware that thousands of men had sexual fantasies about her, and she found it quite flattering. I've never met a woman who has told me she has felt objectified knowing that someone finds her sexually attractive, it's a big compliment, and I'm sure most men wouldn't tell a woman to their face that they fantasize about her. Niko, I cannot believe that you don't have sexy thoughts about women ( or men) that you find attractive. What goes on in your head is totally your own business and no one elses. The reason we are all here is because of sex.
:My Name, what you may call sin, is different to what I may call sin. Sin is a word i only use when talking to Christians. I don't believe anything you dream up in your imagination can be 'sinful'. Certainly if you acted out a bad thought it would be a different matter. Thoughts aren't inherently bad in of themselves. Our imaginations are free to dream up any scenario we wish :-) .. if you wanted, you could imagine you are clubbing me to death with a baseball bat, I'm absolutely fine with that. But obviously, if you then carried it out, ... thats a whole different ball game :-)
My caregiver has been in the US 5 years from Rwanda. She and her family are deeply Christian and not because of a missionary or colonialism but because Christ touched them when they went to a local Rwandan black church. Here they go to church every Sunday and are far better at it than I am!
Seen that last guy a few times. He has an axe to grind, the argument is just to justify the axe. I have seen people on all sides of arguments like this. I pray him a great life & a life changing experience, but odds are that wouldn't change his mind until he puts down the axe. That is a hard heart.
That last dude claiming to be smart, if that's our future we're screwed.
I think it's important not to judge people like that. They've clearly put up a big wall in their life which is gonna take time and love to bring down. We all judge but just try to love a bit more
Liked both comments. Because.
@@BobMarley-xf5xo can I love him and give him a good beating like my parents did when I did stupid things
As an Indian Christian he was straight racist , rude , ignorant and also very demeaning . I follow Jesus Christ as i experienced His love , grace and forgiveness , not cos my ancestors were colonised by the British. My gosh how can be do dumb to realize that you can't force people to follow something unless they follow by their own wish.
@@BobMarley-xf5xo I think you didn't hear Cliffe earlier in the video if you say this 😂
Cliffe and his son, who look for no honours are most deserving of them, for their very effectual work serving God their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Because of them we are greatly blessed by their soul winning ways.
You and your videos are amazing and you are a blessing and I’m sure God is using you to encourage many to learn about God. Please don’t stop doing such an amazing job. God blessed you and your family 💕
Thank you for uploading videos~ always inspiring and challenging~
14:44 the guy had a mini heart attack
Thank you for another great video.
Thank you for sharing the gift that God has blessed you with, with our youth.
ya gotta respect, Cliffe done this for over 36 years!
Merry Christmas to all my Christian friends on Cliffe's channel. I may have a different opinion on your beliefs, but I respect your views. May I wish you all peace and happiness in the forthcoming year.
Merry Christmas
But I do hope that when you feel empty in life, when you're depressed, when u close your door, alone in your room thinking what's the true purpose of life? Then, please think about Jesus. Just kneel down at your bedside, then in humility, speak to Him. You'll be surprised.
@@bugatti99vun Thanks for that message TGP, I'd forgotten I'd posted this comment until you replied to it. My message was heartfelt and sincere, i do wish everyone peace and happiness in life. As regards to me feeling depressed and lonely when I close my door, .. nothing could be further than the truth, I certainly never feel depressed and lonely, I have a job I love, I take patients to hospitals all over the South West region of the UK, for all kinds of treatment, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, dialysis, dementia, .. you name it, it is incredibly rewarding. When I get home, i am tired and aching and just want to rest, .. which is what I'm doing now, led on my bed, enjoying reading and replying to comments from people like yourself.
I can assure you, I do think about Jesus, I'm unable to kneel down because of arthritic pain my in knees, but certainly I've attempted many many times to contact him, thats one of the main reasons I'm now a non believer..if he existed, he would know *exactly* what it would take for me to believe in him.
@@bonnie43uk wao. I wasn't expecting a heartfelt reply. Even TH-cam comments section can also be of good use if properly used huh.
I'm glad you're doing fine and all. Really do feel happy for you. Perhaps you're living your life nicely, and didn't think too much of it. But from what I see, heard, close friends, people in TV, in the news, they, at some point in life despite of their achievements and satisfaction gained from doing good deeds, or we say realistically, being successful in life (money), there's still something missing, like a void in their heart. There's always this feeling of emptiness inside, not just them, even the old me. It's like, I just came back traveling with my buddies, it shud energise me, make me feel happy and all, but the feeling of that "void" always linger around. I'm not sure if you get what I'm trying to say.
Some people even go to the extent of committing suicide. I just read my friend's FB post saying he was thinking of suicide, even though he's got a beautiful family, a son, a beautiful wife, etc.
That "void" of mine was filled when I totally put my trust and faith in Jesus Christ. He is the one we all are missing. We human has a nature of wanting to find that "something" in life, something beyond human, beyond our understanding, beyond this world. And I'll cut to the chase and tell u, it's Jesus Christ. That's why theres a verse of Jesus saying "I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. No man comes to the FATHER (God) but by me.
I'm not sure why God hasn't revealed Himself to you. But, I can advise you to "allow" God to reveal Himself to you in His own Way. It's like, when u try to get to know a new fren, unless he opens up to you the way he wants, you'll never get to know him properly. Same thing, if you don't open up to the new fren abt yourself, he/she will never get to know you. Same thing with God, u yourself gotta open up to Him, and He will open up to you for sure.
And, to remind you. Your post was dated 4 years ago. And amongst all the comments I can comment, why would I stumble on yours? People say it's just random. but say, God want to reach you thru me. My comment once again rekindle your thoughts on life, on Jesus. Perhaps it's time I believe. Amazing isn't it? Things don't happen randomly, it happens for reasons. So, seem like God is reaching out to you, will you accept His call or not.
And God reach people in variety of ways. Sometimes it thru person, like what I'm doing now, sometimes it's thru His words (bible), sometimes thru praise and worship songs, or even pastors, your friends etc.
So, I'm glad you reply me heartily, and I will try my best to let u know that, Jesus do love you. He's waiting for you to reply as well. = )
Hi cliff I have 1 questions...what do u mean when u say 'Central of Christian'
Yes Rod I hear you and your reply that has prodded me to think, which I’ll comment on momentarily.
But firstly please let me make mention of how marvellous it really is, that we have this wonderful medium called Quora, allowing us to criticise what we truly believe is worthy of some justifiable but hopefully helpful criticism, if it’s gentle enough.
And as the medium of writing is rather new for me, I haven’t always written or been a writer, I have a novices’s enthusiasm for it, which I hope you can tolerate.
I like your reply. I like the way you have written it. It is extremely polite and filled to overflowing with graceful diplomacy.
The new thought, if I can catch it, that you have given me, has arisen from your comment about those who believe in God but treat people poorly who don’t believe.
I think there can be, for some, this tendency of going to the extremes of not wanting to weaken the strength of our own belief, in either atheism or deism, by not giving the faintest hint of cowing down to the other guy who disagrees with us, and thereby quiet peaceful profitable diplomacy is filed away instead of being lavishly displayed.
Hence some of us will get a bit stroppy. I have said some pretty dreadful things over the years, whilst hiding behind my pen. Which of course isn’t OK, but ah, if I can just learn from it and repent and improve, then it’s not all bad. Anyway that’s the plan. That’s my sincere contrite desire. But time will tell.
This is such a delicate business isn’t it, this conversation of how to behave oneself when speaking to those with opposing views.
But you made me see more clearly, and quite insightfully I might add, with your diplomatic style, perhaps to realise more clearly than ever before, that what holds true for you, also is true for me, although pole opposite points of view.
In other words, if I am to take into consideration the proverb of, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, I need to be more gentle in dealing with others who disagree with me, For this is how I want them to deal with me, aptly demonstrated by your good example.
Yes I do agree with you. Your sense of self worth isn’t under any attack from the idea of God’s existence, because your posture of atheism nullifies this.
However I freely admit that this attack that you aren’t under is one that I suffer from, because I do believe in God the creator and Jesus, whom I consider to be the manifestation of God in the form of a man.
But this is a most splendid attack upon my sense of importance and whilst it’s a fight I don’t want to loose, nevertheless I must loose it with all vigour. For in loosing I gain so much more than what I’ve lost. I gain a new enhancement of what God is. He become stronger. Fitter. More capable. More unbeatable. And what a defence it is.
My hedge has turned into a walled city.
I feel like I have seen the beginning of this before. I listen to these videos while I work basically on a loop. It just seems familiar. eta: yep i remember the guy in the gray shirt / glasses
i’ve noticed “john” really lifts jesus up. the other gospels he doesn’t say he’s god. but in gospel of john he really turns it up a notch in gospel of john does anyone else think that btw it’s by far the youngest gospel as in it came around much later than the other 3
Wise words Bob but I think you can prove the existence of God.
To me and others like me it’s obvious. Nature is more than sufficient proof for me.
However the mind is an amazing thing the way it seeks the self preservation of its self worth. It can trick you by going to the extreme of believing what we shouldn’t believe.
I might be a highly uneducated high school drop out but I’m no drop kick. It doesn’t preclude me from being a thinker. And I’m dealing with a full deck. In other words I’ve got all my marbles.
And if you are a thinker as I am who began slowly putting it together over 40 years ago, you will arrive at conclusions that many others haven’t concluded, mainly because they haven’t put the time in.
These answers are not necessarily found instantly.
That’s why wisdom is invariably associated with age or many years, because goodly amounts of time are usually required for some of the important answers to really dawn upon us. Eureka moments and all that.
And these answers cannot necessarily be found on Google and instead of them being validated by others they are usually rubbished.
And this happens because most people are not completely aware of what’s really going on in the deeper recesses in their own minds and hence they are inclined to vehemently deny an exposition of it, as they truely believe, falsely of course, that the revelation that reveals how they are truly thinking, which is true, but for them it isn’t true, because as they don’t see it, they will invariably deny it.
In many ways we have a natural tendency to not want to believe in the existence of God. And the reason for this is this.
The greatness of God messes with our greatness and therefore our initial preference is for God to not exist.
God’s greatness is certainly a problem for mankind which the atheists solve by electing to believe that there is no God and actually that works.
Great clarity of thought results along with a greater sense of self worth and freedom.
But just as the happiness gained from drugs isn’t actually good for us, neither is the clarity along with the self worth, good for us, that’s gotten by electing to believe that God ain’t there.
If you lead a decent life but tell God to drop dead and take a hike.
If you don’t get in your knees and thank God for your life and all that goes with it. If God became a man and dies on a cross as a sacrifice for you to inherit everlasting life but you say nah not interested.
And if you don’t prepare for that new life to come by beginning to synergise with God by loving and obeying Him. Then, can you not see how unfit you’d be for that new life that requires this requirement.
God doesn’t find us, we find Him, but not without looking for Him.
Seek and ye shall find.
The punishment thing isn’t actually a threat. As the horse with 4 broken legs must be destroyed, so to, is the worthless soul destroyed in hell at the end of time.
Man can destroy the body but only God can destroy the soul.
The snuffing out of those souls who have carelessly not known God might happen very quickly.
The effects of this destruction is eternal but there is no eternal burning of souls. The bible is clear on this subject stating that they will perish there. And how can theybperish and still be alive. It’s impossible.
Also it states that Satan, the great deceiver, will be ashes under our feet which is further proof against the dreadful notion of eternal torment.
But let’s be clear. Whilst I say and others like me say that God exists, validated by our own personal experiences with God, however, it’s not just about believing.
400 years ago everyone believed in God, but instead, it’s about obeying our creator.
Most didn’t obey God 400 years ago and hey things haven’t changed today.
I write for 3 reasons.
I like to write.
I like to try and point others in the right direction.
And I like to defend God’s name from the shame of saying He ain’t there.
Good luck Bob.
At the end of this video talk was just in the time aman
There are 631 million Christians in Africa.
Hi Richard,
You might be right when you say that the origins of religion might have predated wealth.
It’s purpose is to stop the poor from murdering the rich but in the case of a native tribal chief who isn’t wealthy it’s to prevent uprisings. It keeps the boys in check.
Obviously the partakers of religion don’t see themselves as being under control. However there are exceptions to the rule because I am religious and I’m not under control. But that’s another story.
I like the honest way you talk about yourself. It’s a good way to go. I thought you were much older. You seem to be a wise person.
I am completely uneducated. Self taught.
I didn’t start thinking until I was 30.
It began with a small incident.
On one occasion in an absent minded kind of country bumpkinish way, I was shedding some leaves from a whippy green branch. And as I was shedding these leaves it it occurred to me that I didn’t know why I was doing it. So I asked myself why. To which I could get no answer, at least not immediately.
But as time went by I got answers.
But it took a long time. It’s was a hard nut to crack.
I realised that it was in the realm of the achievement thing. In a very minuscule way I was achieving. I was achieving the shedding of the leaves. And I was doing it because it made me feel good. And I felt good because I felt worthwhile because I was achieving. It was along those lines. I eventually realised that we all want to feel important or worthwhile instead of worthless. Important instead of no importance at all and do on.
And by understanding this small thing, I eventually came to understand larger things that pertained to human behaviour.
Hence I gave you a hard time for not being a bumpkin like me.
When you discover something for yourself as I did all those years ago , and I am still discovering, it becomes much more meaningful than reading it in a book or being taught by a teacher.
The impact of it is greater.
But start with something small. Something that you are doing but you don’t know why you are doing it. Puzzle over it. But don’t expect instant answers.
What I am trying to say is that the lens in the binoculars change if you say there is no God, because the lens won’t allow you to realise that nature is actually the evidence of God.
And this in itself is a most interesting subject. If I was to touch on it I’d say this.
I say, as a home grown philosopher, that once God gets removed from the picture, so too are the diminishing effects taken away, that are caused by the infinite superiority of God. It’s a sub conscious thing which we don’t notice.
And for those who have unwittingly inflated their greatness by removing the existence of God and His greatness, along the deflationary effects it produces, it’s almost impossible for them to believe in God, because simultaneously they would have to humble themselves to such an extent that it’s almost too much for them to endure.
But they don’t see it this way.
They trick the mind. It’s very subtle. They don’t notice it. They refuse to allow themselves to see what I and others like me see, Which is that nature is quite obviously the evidence of the creator’s existence.
I believe God is invisible and always will be. But Jesus Christ is the manifestation of God manifesting as a man whom we can relate to. I became born again in 1987 at age 40 and now
I am one of His loyal, faithful, grateful, obedient, followers.
I believe He died in grief on the cross for my sins and was resurrected on the third day. I believe that the Bible KJV is the word of God.
That’s where I am at
Yes David, when you put it like that, I do see what you mean.
And I think in its own way, thinking this way, as you have described, there can be a time and place for it.
But I do submit to you that the idea of deliberately realising our absolute insignificance to the creator has its benefits.
We, through this true diminishment of ourselves, will yes initially experience a sort of removal from God, but the degree to which God expands in greatness is such that our God becomes so much greater, and what a strength this is to us.
Having said this, there is no limit to God’s greatness, but what we are trying to avoid is the limitations we inadvertently place upon Him by the greatness of ourselves. Therefore as we decrease God increases.
The God of Jesus Christ, God the father, is the same God for you and me but He limited Him less than we do because He reduced Himself more than we do.
Therefore Jesus, was often flummoxed by the lack of faith by those around Him, but it was resulting from their incapacity or great reluctance to reduce their own greatness by realising God’s greatness.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the real reason why the scribes were instructed to wash their pens before they wrote the word God, was to produce this effect of belittling oneself to obtain a greater magnification of God, and thereby have a greater confidence in Him in whom they placed their trust.
Jesus walked on water because He wanted to but because His God was so great in His mind He believed he could and so He did.
Peter tripped into that belief for a few moments and before he doubted he too walked on water.
Thank you for your reply.
I liked it very much.
Those who wrongly suppose that life is to be without its trials are those who haven’t fully matured.
True maturity includes the realisation that a life without trials, ranging from matrimonial to financial, is a life that cannot grow our character.
In times of trials we need support. Our friends, family and even the dog, if you’re lucky enough to have one.
In life our whole gig is about being viewed in a favourable light by others. Actually God’s honest truth is, we want to be admired.
The great punishment known as solitary confinement is immediately alleviated by being with people. Not to see them but to be seen. Pretty sick isn’t it. But hey we actually want to be seen. The wobbly prisoner doesn’t see it this way. Nay not so says he.
What’s really going down is that he can’t even entertain the idea that this is so, all because it’s too much of an attack upon his sense of self worth. And neither do people want to face the fact that this is what they really are, therefore they run a mile from it. Hey it’s understandable.
The desire to be admired is part of the natural makeup of man, but if gets out of whack, a man might wear a dress to try and get more. Therefore we obviously need to keep it in check. Some is good and healthy but too much and hey we start heading in the wrong direction.
However God Himself insists with the first commandment for Himself to be admired although more specifically He tells us to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and all our strength.
But the difference is that God doesn’t actually need our love and admiration. But He insists on it because He knows it’s best for us. Also if we love Him big time we will desire to be admired less.
He knows that for us to overcome our great inferiority to Him, that is having a negative effect upon us, albeit subconsciously, we need to love Him. That’s it. Cut and dried.
Actually making the switch to get on the God trip is no easy business. Many of those, whom you love, will leave you in droves if you make this transition.
Check this out. The reason why they remove you from their company, is they no longer believe that you secretly admire them, all because of your new found great love of God.
Here is another eye opener. Check this out. Your friends and acquaintances believe, rightly or wrongly, delusional or factual, that you admire them. But they no longer believe it when you tell them that you’ve become a disciple of Jesus Christ. Hence they do a runner. Interesting isn’t it.
Do they know this. Absolutely not. And they probably never will.
Christ is God in human flesh.
He died for us and that’s another story. He says in John 3:3 that you’ve got to be born again. Hey it’s worth it otherwise it’s down the tubes stuff and you’ll probably take your family with you.
OK so you’ve got your troubles but without them you might not be able to get your priorities right.
Without them you probably wouldn’t consider getting your life right with God.
When all is going well, you, in your erroneous opinion, deem that you have too much to loose, if you were to join forces with God.
But if you’re on a loosing streak, and hey, we all have em, including Donald Trump, then you will be concluding that you aren’t quite as admired as you usually are, therefore you have less to loose.
This is your chance because once you are back up on top of the mountain and you will get back on top, but when you are it’s too late. You won’t be interested. The transitions happen in the valley not the mountain tops. Now is your chance. I suggest you take it unless you’re on the mountain top.
If you are not sure how to become born again, it’s easy. You can do it anywhere. On a beach. In a shed.
Certainly on your knees.
Say something like OK God, you’ve got me, I’ll do it your way. I repent, please forgive my sins, I want to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. That’s it.
The hard part is telling other people of your decision. But blurt it out. Tell them that you’ve become a disciple of Jesus Christ. If you don’t do this, it won’t work.
If you want to be a secret Christian, forget it. You can’t hide your light under a bushel.
You probably know a few Christians. Phone them and tell them of your decision. Not only will they give you a few pointers but they will be rejoicing along with the angels in heaven.
Happy Christmas Season,
And God bless you.
Paul,
The reverentially respectful son of my very dear parents, John & Winnifred Hunt.
Christians have misunderstood the meaning of the verse in John 14:9 which says as follows:
John 14:9:
“…..Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. ….”
Before understanding John 14:9, let us analyze some similar verses in the followings to understand the meaning of the verse.
3 John 11:
Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
Have all people who have done good also physically seen God ? Of course not.
Again in John 8:19:
Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”
“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
Now look what Jesus said in John 14:7:
“If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
So from now on, did all the disciples have seen the Father (God) physically in reality? Of course not.
Here, Jesus is saying that if you know me, you know God i.e. if you follow me, you are indirectly following Almighty God. Seeing God here means knowing God as we can see from the verse.
Here, Jesus is talking about spiritual matters, but the disciples are thinking of some physical matters in John 14:7. Since the disciples still did not understand what Jesus is talking about. So Philip directly ask Jesus to show them Father physically and that will be enough for them to understand what is Jesus talking about. It is mentioned in the following verses:
John 14:8-9:
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Why did Jesus ask Philip that how can you say, “Show us the Father'? Because Philip was a Jew and being a Jew, he already knew that no one can see Father and live. Philip being a Jew also knew that heavens and earth can not contain Father. Because it was mentioned in the old testament as follows:
Exodus 33:20:
But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
1 Kings 8:27:
“But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!
Jesus also knew that and he also told that to his disciples in 1 John 4:22, Matthew 23:9 and John 5:37 as follows:
1 John 4:12:
“No one has ever seen God; …”
Matthew 23:9:
“And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
And John 5:37:
“And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, ….”
Here, Jesus is talking about spiritual matters to his disciples in John 14:7, but Philip and other disciples were thinking of some physical matters.
So Jesus is saying to Philip that he had been with him for so long and still making such a silly request of showing God when Philip can not even look at the sun, so Jesus says that “Anyone who has seen me has seen the father” meaning if you know me, you know Almighty God as well. You follow my teachings; you are following the teachings of Almighty God. Here, seeing Father means knowing Father.
Uploaded 12 minutes ago...click. 👍🏾
Christ taught us to judge without being judgmental he taught us to be intolerant to the bad in this life.
The last guy on the students microphone was sure to himself that skimming the literature in the topics he discussed was enough. He didn't really know the author's of the books written in the first century about Christ. He doesn't know the people he makes assertions about. He hadn't studied them, and he doesn't realize that when the Word comes to a civilization, they have hungered and thirsted a long time and God knows it. All they have to do is hear it. Faith comes by the hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God. It's another way of saying the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Spirit moved in a place and a people and changed them. Their desire is filled. By whomever the messengers are, that's immaterial. The Word is a living Spirit, Christ Jesus.
The guy on the microphone learned catholic doctrine , and as a child. He did not hunger for the truth. He did not yearn under his oppression feelings. His version of the truth is not the original message, it's clouded by the intention and actions of people who kept adding to the practice of it. You can still get the truth from them, but you have to sort through their delivery and practices. They have inserted false doctrine and rituals of remembrance that leave you with more questions than answers. You have to be put through perochial school to get your answers. It's possible, but the guy on the microphone chose to turn away from it and made his decisions his way with what he thinks he knows. He would need prayer by alot of loving people who wanted to save him to get free of that spirit of Antichrist that fools him and causes him to resist knowledge and evidence to keep him from getting at the truth. He does not invite God in, he sneers and gnashes at the believer. "you people" he called cliffe and his son. Christians. As if that's bad.
Jesus by your desire to love him, please give him a clue. Thank you for cliffe and the patience cliffe showed in this video.
Amen.
I am African and that was very insulting
Same
As an Indian Christian too . I follow Christ not cos of colonisation but i experienced His love , grace and forgiveness . I follow Jesus Christ by own my personal experience which there is none in million avatars of hinduism . Also notice that guy was a catholic a pagan belief mingled with Christian faith in rome which has nothing to do with Bible and Jesus.
Cliff, on the mention of the prophets not hearing of Jesus. I'd say they have by now. Since Jesus went to Sheol, and ministered to the dead.
Checkout Windsor On Fire Channel!!!
jesus never preached to the prophets it was talking about his spirit,the holy spirit preaching in the days of noah through noah,and the prisons in the verse is talking about sin,because sin is a prison they were slaves to it. spirits can mean your nature. so hope that helps.
If there is a time for all things then hey I guess there’s got to be a time for being real. Right?
Or wrong, if you’re just another chicken liver, nice and staunch, waiting your turn to be interned six foot under, so you can pump up your daisies.
That’s where most people are at. There is Kentucky Fried Chicken. And there’s Chicken Cacciatore and of course there’s the Chicken Livers busy trying to hold it together. I was one, so hey I know what I’m talking about.
If it was really that easy being real then everyone would be doing it all the time, wouldn’t they. But they don’t. Why? Because its not always that easy facing stuff which we don’t really want to face, because it can mess with our happiness.
I am not talking about those with the personality that’s called a real type person. That’s a different kind of real. That’s not the real I am referring to.
I am talking about the real that is required to face things you should face or we should face, but we don’t really want to. To be more specific. I am referring to the great issues of life.
Have you noticed that women are happier than men? Thought I’d just chuck that in.
But we prefer to bypass the great issues of life so we can keep whatever happiness we have intact, that’s of course if we have any at all.
How many of us are actually happiness personified. Probably not a lot.
Obviously, we can’t be real all the time. Invariably too much of it can be too much. But hey, to never be really real, can be such mind crime that it’s just another wasted life right down the tubes, but hey maybe a happy one. Happy all the way to the grave but never figuring it out because it might bring some temporary insanity or unhappiness.
I know I guy like this. His name is Lionel Nation. He’s a public figure in the USA so I can quote him. He don’t want to know. Kind of proud of it too. He knows it all. He’s got it all figured out. Have another Gin Lionel.
They are so busy chasing the happiness buzz they don’t get any pearls. Pearls await them but they chicken out. They fudge the truth to suit.
Both wisdom and wealth are very boosting, because their owners know they have more than the other guy. Sick isn’t it. But that’s the way it is. We appreciate having more than all the other Tom and Jerry’s out there.
Wisdom which is priceless can be purchased at the cost of not fudging the truth.
Solomon who was certainly one of the wisest men who ever lived said if you fear God you can become wise.
Jesus Christ said instead of fearing man who can kill your body but not your soul, fear God who can kill both body and soul in Hell.
If life is all about being happy then shall we call the happy lunatics in asylum our happy little success stories. Quite obviously it’s more important how you get happy isn’t it, than actually being happy.
I was a terribly happy drunk. That’s why I drank. Am I happier now that I am sober? Nope. I was happier drunk although I hated the hangovers.
OK let’s cut to the chase. If you try and seriously realise the greatness of God. His incredulous accomplishments along with His eternal existence. It’s going to do your head in.
I did it today which resulted in me becoming incredibly dwarfed or diminished and hey I’m not some yo yo that doesn’t believe in God. I do believe in God big time.
There is a tendency, perhaps initially, to feel somewhat estranged from God if we allow ourselves to really appreciate God’s never ending greatness. But imagine what it does to the atheist, if he or she should entertain this type reasoning. It must be 100 times worse.
It can result in seeing our own incredulous supersonic insignificance to Him, which can manifest as feelings of estrangement from our God so much so that we could almost utter” my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me “
But if we run from this, then really are we any better than those who espouse the mad notions of atheism, which are nothing more than an escape mechanism to avoid the unfavourable comparison?
The moral to the story is this. If you believe in God, then be prepared to take a hammering, if the comparison of flea and the universe starts dawning on you, with you being the flea. That is a truth. Unpalatable as it is, it is what it is.
Compared to God we don’t actually compare at all. And hey that’s just too much for most people.
But God comes down to our level. He changes Himself into a man. Jesus Christ. Our great high priest whom we can relate to. Our friend. Our God. Who laid down His life for us. King of Kings. Our Lord and Saviour whom we love and obey.
God cut me a break and I went from being a yo yo that didn’t want to know, to a follower of my Lord and Saviour, my Redeemer, Jesus Christ.
Cool
No, I am not expressing frustration at the realisation of my diminished self worth compared to God.
Actually I am glad of it, because it’s brought a freedom with it that a slave feels upon the realisation of the fact that he is sold into slavery for life, and comes to terms with it.
I am gaining a solace from the realisation of knowing my place in relation to God. It’s truth. Why should I run from it.
But there is more than this. By reducing myself to the nothing I am compared to God, it allows my realisation of God’s greatness to significantly expand, no longer impaired by my supposed self worth.
Although we might know that God is unlimited, however we are significantly limited in our capacity to believe this, however to the degree that we can realise this will depend upon how effectual God can be around us.
Jesus performed great miracles not because he had a greater God than us, no, not at all. He performed those miracles because He had a greater belief in God’s power, which came to Him through the diminishment of Himself, by allowing Himself to recognise His infinite inferiority to the unlimited God the father.
It’s our own greatness or sense of self worth that stops us from being able to realise, in a greater way, the greatness of God.
There is a difference between knowing and believing. I know God’s power is all powerful, but believing it is another thing.
You are quite right to point out that not everyone believes this as I do but that’s simply because they don’t want to. They aren’t being logical.
God is unlimited and infinite. How can we seriously compete with that. We can’t. It’s impossible. God is light years smarter than us in every conceivable way.
Yes you are right. Atheism doesn’t really solve the problem just like drugs don’t really solve the lack of happiness problem. Yes sure you’ll get happy but it’s artificial isn’t it. And Atheism artificially brings a new clarity of thought, resulting from the stimulus of the removal of God, who is so great that His greatness denies us from being able to really rejoice over our manhood ,because compared to God we are nothing at all.
I haven’t addressed all the points you have raised Richard but with the greatest respect to you, taking into consideration what you have said, I must say I am most certainly your superior when it comes to understanding the fundamentals of human behaviour.
Because you are a book learned person you aren’t in my opinion really a great thinker. But you could be. I don’t really mean to sound pompous although I can see that I am coming across that way. I’m just telling it as I see it.
Proof of this is your incapacity to actually realise that Napoleon is absolutely right when he says that the purpose of religion is to stop the poor from murdering the rich. You just can’t get it.
If you were a thinker you would immediately see it but you don’t. You don’t actually really understand why control exists.
I don’t want to put you down Richard but you are coming across as though you know what you are talking about regarding Napoleon’s statement but the truth is, you don’t really have a clue. You don’t know what you are talking about regarding this specific quote of Bonaparte’s.
If you don’t know, you are better off to say you don’t know, otherwise by saying what you say about him, regrettably makes you loose all credibility with me.
But that aside from that I am perfectly happy to keep on chatting. No problem.
I have so much love for god and others but not myself I am addicted to drugs and I still cannot simply say I don’t want to because I really enjoy smoking and drinking. I need help.
The second person who spoke to Cliffe is so self righteous in his belief that, the colonisation and lack of education within Africa, are the main contributing factor to Christianities success there, that it makes it difficult to listen to. His ignorance levels are off the charts.
The argument that there is no evidence for god is totally one sided and ignorant from what I've seen. Those who make this claim typically have not considered the posibility of irreducable complexity being present in natural systems, examples of this can be found even in the most "basic" life forms studied by biochemists, such as cilium (i.e. basically a small organism which resides within cells, I am paraphrasing this so my description of cilium may not be 100% accurate...Feel free to google it if your curious). They also forget to consider natural laws, such as the law of entropy and other laws of physics, and how they can point to a designer (a common and simple argument used here is "if there are knowable (i.e. are able to be well understood)laws, then there must be a law maker").
I wonder what evidence an athiest would have for the universe starting from nothing. This to me requires more faith than believing the events which created our universe was started by someone/thing.
Yes there are different interpretations of the unlimited God, And those on the journey throughout eternity realise they will never cease learning more and more about the infinite God, because there is no limit to the infinite knowledge of the infinite God.
Why doesn’t God, who is supposed to be omnipotent, make or change our world, and make it perfect?
Could it be possible that because this world is as messed up as it is, it has created an opportunity for all, if they choose to love God, to become copies of God, in the form of Jesus Christ.
What is easier for God to do?
Become a man and suffer and die on a cross. Or make our world perfect?
Obviously making our world perfect is easier for Him isn’t it than hanging on a cross.
And as there are many who point the finger of accusation at God, it only seems fitting that some will come up with their own theoretical versions of His defence.
Here is mine.
When God wanted to create man He didn’t plan for man to come into this world of heartbreak.
But as He looked into the future He saw the fall of Lucifer which would result in the fall of man if He created mankind.
Therefore He was reticent to create man who would not only need a saviour in the form of Himself as Jesus Christ, but also would need to overcome Satan’s temptations along with enduring the mayhem caused by Satan.
But aside from this, Lucifer, now called Satan, would reek untold havoc upon mankind. He would cause wars and bloodshed famines and pestilence and so on.
The original plan that God had for
man was to produce a happy species of reasonable intelligence without challenges although somewhat robotic in nature.
However the introduction of the spoiler Satan into the picture unwittingly produced an even greater opportunity, never to be repeated for man, who wasn’t yet created.
If man could resist the temptations of Satan via their saviour Jesus Christ, then their inheritance would elevate them to a status higher than the angels.
They would actually become copies of God Himself, copies of Jesus Christ.
Without Satan’s rebellion and temptations this wouldn’t have been possible.
But what a price to pay. The carnage. The horrors. Even the birth of Christ would result in the slaughter of all the infant boys in Bethlehem under 2 years of age, by Herod.
And then Christ would need to suffer the crucifixion.
But the wisdom of God was at play here. Satan knew God’s plan for man, and he knew that his satanic mayhem was going to elevate man to the status of God, by trusting and loving God.
Therefore Satan’s hate for man knew no limits.
God realises in His great wisdom, which is beyond human comprehension, that this was a one off opportunity, never to repeated, to create sons of God.
And whilst God realises this, He is also mindful that although this offer is available to all of mankind, He knows that few will take it.Matt 7: 13-14.
Nevertheless the plus side far outweighs the negative side and God sees His duty to lay down his life for the good of others and therefore he initiates the plan for man to become sons of God.
John 1:12
The above mentioned story is just a story. It might be true. But it might not. However it is simply a defence that’s offered as a possible answer in reply to the accusations of God’s tyrannical rulership.
The realisation that only a few will ever allow themselves to be persuaded to enter into the knowledge of God via Jesus Christ, brings with it a great dissatisfaction, to the servants of God. No matter how well we speak or write or teach, the quantity will always remain the same. Few. Matt 7:13. Conquer we never will although we we are over-comers. When Christ predicted in the scriptures that even His own resurrection ( Luke 16:31 ) would be insufficient evidence, He was obviously stating a mind blowing truth. Hey, those Pharisees who paid off the guards to say the disciples stole the body away, were actually anti God. And why? The answer is simple. It’s summed up in one word. Rebellion. And in all rebellion great or small there is power. Therefore for power, people throw their lives away. But hey they are happy thumbing their noses at God, mistakenly believing, that if it comes to it, God will understand their disbelief. It’s not complicated. Reject God. Ignore God. Express zero gratitude to God for this sniff of life. Yep you got it. Ye then become rejected by God. It’s curtains and it’s down the tubes stuff. And on that terrible day, those that told God to take a hike, will acknowledge that their fate is richly deserved. They will realise that they are ill suited to be with the redeemed who have elected to love God. For these ones who are actually anti Christs, it would be a form of hell to be with those who love God so ardently. Therefore they cannot begin their eternal journey with those who chose wisely because they would not wisely humble themselves in gratitude before the face of the living God. They perish. And although we sorrow for them, nevertheless it is mixed with a Godly joy, arising from our great hope of eternal life with our God who loves us very dearly.
Yes I suppose in a way you do bring up a valid point when you say that it doesn’t make much sense at all for God of such infinite superiority, to want to have a personal relationship with us, who are beings that are so inferior by comparison.
It might be like us wanting to hang out with a snail or whatever your analogy was.
Actually whilst it’s purported that God wants a personal relationship with us, I don’t think the bible actually states that.
What God wants, is for us to become what he made us to be.
Which is sons of God.
God doesn’t need our love nor need a personal relationship with us, but having said that, He, for our sake, does want that to happen.
He commands us to love Him so we can join forces with Him, in order to overcome the negative effects of our inferiority,resulting from His infinite superiority.
You have overcome your inferiority to Him by saying, in self deceit, that He doesn’t exist.
However this erroneous pathway will, in the end, destroy you.
But God in the form of the high priest Jesus Christ is our friend. And friends do have personal relationships don’t they.
Hence we have friendship with our friend Jesus Christ who is God, who has proved His great love for us, whom we love and obey.
And now we are bound for heaven. A new kingdom. A new heaven and a new earth. A world of amazing love.
And although we will be able to recognise what we once were nevertheless the new entity that we become will be as different as a rainbow to the colours in a coloured pencil box.
"You people..."
I've never heard someone follow up those words with anything short of arrogance.
Numbers 6:24-26,
Deuteronomy 28, Joshua 1:7-8
Matthew 6:9-15 & 12:31-32
Romans 10:9-13,
1 Corinthians 13:8-13,
Yo
14:44 ..................THE ARROGANCE!
A true atheist invariably has the capacity to be real. And if we are going to be really real, we have to admit that if God actually does exist, then hey, we ain’t nothing compare to Him.
The weak atheist not the strong atheist, will, at this juncture, do double back flips, trying to avoid this reality, if God indeed exists.
Atheism solves this great inferiority problem, hence its appeal.
If God exists, who has supposedly created everything, then hey, He has some real greatness huh. But that greatness, obviously diminishes our greatness doesn’t it.
Why?
Because we don’t even begin to compare with it. Therefore our greatness or worthwhile-ness is so insignificant compared to His greatness, that we can’t feel as proud of ourselves, as much as we’d like to, because God is so much greater.
Get it? His greatness diminishes our greatness.
But when we remove Him out of the picture and say hey He ain’t there, He doesn’t exist, we start feeling pretty good about ourselves without the big guy raining on our parade. That’s the real deal.
But hey, the truth is that He does exist. Although you can feel good and start to swell when you pretend He ain’t there. Because actually it’s a pretence. A subtle form of pretension.
But the bummer is that yep you’ll feel good alright being an atheist but hey it all ends bad. Nope it’s not going to be good at all. Heaven and hell and all that jazz.
Reject God, He rejects you.
God knows we have this inferiority problem. Right?It’s not rocket science.
Wanna talk about it some more then give me a yell and I’ll say some more.
Maybe Jesus Christ originally came up with the parable of the sower as a way of coming to terms with the truth of the few. ( Luke 7:13 ) His words were never forceful or demanding. He used no great entreaties although he spoke with authority. Maybe He saw Himself as a sower, in order to avoid discouragement. Knowing that what will be will be. Outside of wilful control. All we can do is be good sowers who scatter the seed well and ask the Lord of the harvest to bless it. It is God who grows the seed into shoots. This is unseen although it is seen by all in heaven. The angels of God see and rejoice greatly ( Luke 15:7 ) when one sinner repents. One by one we point them to Christ and
hey if someone hadn’t done a number on me, by sowing some seed, I’d be a careless one going to hell. Do not be deterred by those who accuse you of being arrogant for speaking with authority. Sow the seed Ye sowers.
God gave the people of Noah’s time 120 years to repent
Who is Our Lord Jesus Christ father is it YHWH or El Elyon?
I listened to this man talking to the crowd.Byt felt he should not the revealing his own sin,s to the audience about lusting after women??? Too much information about himself.People Dn,t want to know his fault,s or sin,s.Also I felt he was condeming a man about the discussion on Africa etc I felt he picked up the man wrong? And came over in a aggressive spirit against the man asking a question.shocked😮 If you,r going to answer question,s from a audience you have to have a humble spirit toward,s a audience not come over in a aggresive spirit.shocked😮😮😮
If there's a murderer on a remote island that doesn't know what christianity is about, God will have mercy on this murderer?
John Purcell, you and I are both interesting case studies of 2 people with all their marbles, or deemed by some as having intelligence, with our minds made up, but at opposite ends of the poles of agreement, as to the existence or non existence of a creator.
In a way this is almost as fascinating a subject as, to be or not to be for God. Very strange.
Because you and I both realise that if God does exist, And I wholeheartedly say He does but you must say nay, He by definition must be formless.
If you were God and you made all the pigs and crocodiles and the sharks and Zebras, then why would you in God’s heaven want to look like me or a talking horse? Of course you could if you wished to but would you want to? And if so why?
Actually I could be wrong but even though you marvel at the flight of an eagle I suspect you don’t want to be one.
Neither do I.
I could run quite fast as most lads do, and like all boys I did like to win too, but I wasn’t fast enough, however although my admiration of the Cheetah was sincere, I didn’t feel ashamed that he could annihilate me in a race.
Therefore I submit to you that if you were God who made the sheep you wouldn’t actually want to be one. Nor would you want to be a human being.
Therefore if you were actually the creator I submit to you, that instead of looking like some kind of sky daddy in the sky you would instead be without form.
We might see the manifestations of your creative work, by the way how do you do it, it’s amazing, how is it possible, but hey there it is, But we aren’t going to see you are we, even in the form of some kind of mega enormous sugar daddy in the sky.
What you are, if you are actually God, is so incomprehensible that we can’t get a handle on it.
And how do you do what you do?
How could you possibly make a shark? Surely that’s impossible but nevertheless we see the sharks which you have claimed to have made.
Surely they made themselves. They must have made themselves. There is no other explanation. Either you as God did it or they the sharks did it. Or nothing did it and that’s even more perplexing.
But you and your band of brothers and sisters of atheism say that no God could create such a thing.
But as we know that God couldn’t do it, forgive the blasphemy for daring to say that if you were God you couldn’t make a shark, but as we know that it’s impossible for you as God to make a shark we are forced to believe that it either made itself OR nothing made it.
Sharks in their own way are smart
but hey they aren’t smart enough to make themselves, are they. Yes they can procreate but that’s where the buck stops.
How did we get onto this shark thing?
I suppose one of the frustrating things I am getting about you being God is how did you make the shark? How could you possibly do that? It’s simply not possible. But nevertheless there it is wanting to bite my leg off. Right!!
Surely the genius of the shark, some genius huh, must have come together by natural processes. That’s the only way it could have happened. In other words it made itself, so to speak.
I can understand that and accept that because clearly it’s impossible for it to be made or created, because who could do such a thing.
Therefore from this perspective I am compelled to say that it’s impossible for the shark to be made regardless of the fact that he’s right there wanting to take a bite.
How did he get there?
He couldn’t have been made.
That’s impossible.
But there He is. Teeth and all.
Whatever made him isn’t one of us. This we know.
How could such a thing happen?
The question is. How did the shark get made?
Have we completely underestimated you?
You are God,remember.
Are you telling me I have to be like my boyhood dog, who didn’t try to understand how the refrigerator or TV worked because he didn’t have the brains for it?
Actually I still don’t know how the TV works, but as you probably do understand it,then that’s good enough for me.
Could it be that whatever kind of God we thought you were you aren’t that at all?
Could it be that what you are is beyond our comprehension?
And as we cannot get a handle on outer space never ending, or being infinite, neither can we get a grip on the infinite unlimited God, if you are indeed that God. I don’t think you are and neither do you but we put you in that place in order to understand better what you are if you were actually God.
Where does this leave us?
We still have the shark and his pearly whites.
Buts let’s agree on something.
Let’s agree that the God you don’t believe in is neither the same one that I believe in either.
The God I believe in is,
*unimaginable.
*nothing like us.
*without form
*incomprehensible
*compared to God I am nothing
*I am almost non existent compared to God
*God is love 💕
And what God is will never cease to be a never ending revelation, for those who are successful in obtaining the joy of living forever.
It seems that we are limited in our capacity to understand the infinite unlimited God, in a similar way, that we are intellectually limited to understand infinitely itself. But it’s fun thinking about it.
Whatever posture we use to try and get a handle on the expansive thinking of infinity, should perhaps also be applied to God who is so infinite, it gives a new meaning to the word infinity.
To me infinity is a zone. That’s the best way I can describe it.
Do you have to disappoint me by not thinking in these terms of infinity with regard to the shark.
By the way. I didn’t like Jaws. However I did like it when the guy at the end, shot the canister in the sharks teeth and blew that turkey to bits. Very satisfying.
The weather here in NZ today is warm enough for me to be bare chested, provided I am the only one who has to suffer the sight
of my 70 year old pot gut.
Have a great day John wherever you are.
There is a Utuber called Cliffe Knetchle and his son who debate with young atheists on university campuses. He’s certainly worth a look. Good luck Pal.
Should get that African guy to join cliffe and study from him.
no evidence for God is non sense. Open your heart and call out to God. Find out for yourself.
One Step Away most people fear having to be accountable for their actions and lifestyles.
jsekits isn't that the truth but it doesn't stop people from doing evil acts.
I wouldn't say there is no evidence for the existence of some being that one could designate God, it could be argued that there is evidence (albeit evidence of a low standard) for such a being but there are a couple of things I would add to that, firstly, even if we could determine that some being must have brought the Universe and everything contained within it into existence (which we haven't determined of course), there would still be no reason to presume that it must be the same "Jahova" God that the Bible tells us about, for all we know, the Bible could still have been a made up book containing stories about a fictional God and the Universe might have been brought into existence by some other kind of being that the authors never really knew about, they could have just made up some God concept that might turn out to be partially correct or it might be way off, we just don't know.
Everybody who has a belief in some type of God concept would try to claim such a being as "their God" if it was ever somehow determined that such a being must have been the instigation of everything else, for example, the Muslims could just as easily claim that this being was their "Allah", Rastafarians could claim this being is their "Jah", even Deists could also claim that this is the being that they have always claimed exists, all these different religions and God concepts could all make a claim on this being and unless this being actually comes out of hiding and tells us which God (if any) he is, we would still have no reason to be sure what we would be dealing with.
Secondly, I mentioned in brackets earlier that the evidence for the existence of some being we could call God is of a low standard, so, let me explain this in more detail, to give an example, there are some people who would say "if there is no God how do you explain the trees and the flowers and life?" etc, now, whilst it would be true to say that in fact, there ARE explanations for many of these things that don't require us having to at any point say "this is where a God comes into it", it would be also true to say that there are plenty of mysteries which we don't have all the answers for and this is where many theists will then try to claim that God must be the one and only possible answer, we call it the God of the gaps argument but what those of us who are thinking skeptics would say to this is that just because we don't know the answer to something, there is no justification for us to then conclude "ah well....there must be a God then".
What we should instead say is we just don't know and keep searching, we're not necessarily saying God isn't the answer, maybe that is the answer but what we are saying is we have no justification in concluding that God must be the ONLY possible answer and not anything else, that is our ACTUAL position my friend, not the way you put it, just saying "hey....you atheists are saying there is no evidence for God" is not really explaining our position correctly, what you are doing is creating a strawman argument, so, of course, it SOUNDS impressive and very persuasive to some who might be inclined to agree with you anyway, especially if they've never heard from many atheists and have preconcieved ideas about us, thanks.
John Cashin evidence is there but selective. Take a good look around. When most people look at the world around them, they see only the trees; they do not see the forest that is there. It should be obvious that God exists because of His creation, not only us humans, but the world we live in, the galaxy that world is in, and the universe that the galaxy is in.
Our universe contains too much order for our existence to have been created out of chaos. We are complex beyond our imaginations and when you look at such a complexity, you see God and His creation. A mind is behind it all that is my belief and through observation and experience. We are apart of something so much bigger
@One Step Away
I get where you're coming from and I can't even say with any certainty that you are wrong, the problem is I have no real reason to be certain your conclusion is right either, the only way for all of us to be sure is if this supposed being shows up and confirms it right in front of us all but that hasn't happened yet, at least, not on a mass scale, which would be the ultimate evidence because if we ALL experianced exactly the same thing wthout exception, nobody could deny it but when it's only a seeming select few that get these apparent 'divine revelations', the rest of us can't tell if they have really experianced something divine or if they have been hallucinating or if they're making it all up, how can we know for certain which is the case?
Sure life is amazing, sure the whole universe is incredible but who are we to say that a God is the only possible explanation for it all? For all we know for sure, there could have been a way that it came to be without a such a being, maybe we have to accept that we will never know how everything came to be, yes, we find this hard to accept by nature because we hate not knowing, we have always had a lot of frustrating gaps in our understanding and knowledge which we have tried in the past to fill with ideas and theories that later turned out to make no sense when we learned more.
You see, I suggest the God concept is one that our distant ancestors probably made up as one of those gap fillers, they could think of no other explanation so they concieved of beings or a being that was greater than human and that served to account for the seemingly unexplainable and this satisfied them all at the time, a bit like when we were children we were satisfied with 'magical' type explanations for things we could not get our little minds around but eventually we had to move on and work out the REAL answers which had nothing to do with magic or faries, can you see what I'm saying?
Some of us are just no longer satisfied with "magic' gap filler type explanations and that is at the end of the day what God is, because, if we just say 'God did it...end of' that's still not really an explanation, we still don't have an explanation for HOW God supposedly did it other than via some mysterious magical, miraculous type power, now that's hardly an explanation is it? That is explaining a mystery with another mystery and then applying special pleading to it so that somehow it's okay not to question that.
Hey I haven't had a happy atheist
Very cute Bob. Cute as apple pie.
Perhaps punished isn’t quite the right word.
Man can kill the body but only God can kill both body and soul in hell. God is the only one who can destroy the soul and it takes Hell fire to achieve it.
God creates us for everlasting life. It’s another dimension which the word of God says cannot actually be imagined. Suffice to say it’s a whole lot better than this life.
To gain eternal life after this life requires a new mindset. And without this new mindset, heaven and everlasting life cannot be accessed or acquired because of extreme unsuitability.
This new mindset encompasses the love of God.
The purpose for all mankind is to acquire eternal life, but regrettably most will, in various forms, reject God’s offer, and therefore in turn become rejected by God as being unsuitable to be with the redeemed in heaven.
As there is no where else for them to go they need to be destroyed which requires destruction in hell, to destroy the soul so that the remembrance of it is no more.
Therefore, although a person lives a noble life, however if that life is not accompanied by the love of God and gratitude for their life and obedience to God, via Jesus Christ, who is the manifestation of God in the flesh, they are then too ill suited for life eternal, and therefore destruction awaits them.
Merry Christmas everyone :-). Cliffe talks about people having a problem with 'sin'. What people regard as sinful is very subjective, there are lots of things that I don't regard as sinful, but perhaps a Christian would view it as going against God's wishes, or sinful behavior. I love admiring a beautiful woman, to me, it's perfectly natural, but I think Jesus mentions that if you lust after a woman, you have committed adultery in your heart (Matt 5:28). I don't believe that for one minute. Sexual desire is a perfectly natural human trait.
bonnie43uk sexual desire and admiring the beauty of a person aren't sinful. Lusting is when you objectify that person and 10 minutes later you're still imagining how well their body could serve you
bonnie43uk doesn't matter what are opinions are. God's word is the only truth.
What Jesus is simply saying is that sin always starts in the heart. Lustful actions stars with lustful thoughts.
@Niko, Do you realize that virtually all married women have fantasies about other people when they are being intimate, especially film stars, George Clooney is a popular sexual fantasy for women of a certain age, and virtually all teenage girls have sexual thoughts about pop stars and tv personalities.. it's perfectly natural and harmless. As I've said in previous comments, what we fantasize about is one of life's free pleasures.
As regards to 'objectifying' women, what goes on in our own minds is totally our own business and no one else's, our own private thoughts don't hurt anyone. I'm 59 now, when I was younger I had a thing for Sophia Loren, a beautiful Italian film actress, I've heard her in an interview a few years ago say that she was well aware that thousands of men had sexual fantasies about her, and she found it quite flattering.
I've never met a woman who has told me she has felt objectified knowing that someone finds her sexually attractive, it's a big compliment, and I'm sure most men wouldn't tell a woman to their face that they fantasize about her.
Niko, I cannot believe that you don't have sexy thoughts about women ( or men) that you find attractive. What goes on in your head is totally your own business and no one elses. The reason we are all here is because of sex.
:My Name, what you may call sin, is different to what I may call sin. Sin is a word i only use when talking to Christians. I don't believe anything you dream up in your imagination can be 'sinful'. Certainly if you acted out a bad thought it would be a different matter. Thoughts aren't inherently bad in of themselves. Our imaginations are free to dream up any scenario we wish :-) .. if you wanted, you could imagine you are clubbing me to death with a baseball bat, I'm absolutely fine with that. But obviously, if you then carried it out, ... thats a whole different ball game :-)
God uses the demons to judge those in hell
There are 685 million Christians in Africa.