Good video, though a couple of things: - Shame they didn't discuss Aun'Va, Farsight or Shadowsun as they are in the running for best HQ's in the faction, even though I agree with your picks in this slot, it would he nice if the named HQ's were compared - 100% dissagree on Strike Teams vs Breachers as Breachers in Devilfish is one of the strongest things this book can do. Great unit to flip objectives with - Broadsides are the best Heavy Support because they're infantry now and CORE Agree with everything else Everything else I pretty much agree with
Im a brand new warhammer player and found this video super helpful and also entertaining. The dynamic between these two kept me engaged the whole time. Looking forward to getting some Kroot 😉
Yeah I can attest to the Riptides capability in melee. My game last night my Necron opponent decided to charge my forward Riptide with EWO and HBC. He made it into CC with one wound left, did like 4 wounds to my Riptide, and then I punched him, 3 hits, 3 wounds, dead overlord.
you're seriously underrating the kroot, even in a non dalyth army, a single unit of kroot is super useful for that pregame move to rush towards an objective or to screen, while being nearly half the cost of pathfinders
So what can that accomplish that a montkaing Devilfish or a Stealth suite team can't do besides putting a mediocre melee unit out closer to the enemy? An easier to kill unit at that. Kroot are great for just filling out battalions and patrols for less points, but if you are really expecting them to do anything but quickly die without a great deal of support being invested in them they wont do much more than that. The army has 0 difficulty with getting out to midfield objectives or clearing off things that happen to stand on them. So rushing out to meet them is not a concern. Comparing them to Pathfinders is apples to oranges, especially their point costs. They are fundamentally different in every aspect, from force organization to utility. So I'm very confused as to why they are being compared here. -Lio
@@BlackRabbitGaming i'm comparing the kroot to the pathfinders for the pregame move and generally higher mobility. yes, a montkaing devilfish or stealth teams can do that effectively, but at a way higher cost. you can easily get 1-2 kroot units for the price of a stealth team and take more with them and no, obviously you're not gonna rush an objective if you can clearly see you'll get blown off of it immediately. but you do this if there's line of sight between the objective and the enemy, or if you're going first on smaller boards you do this to potentially prevent the enemy from doing his own pregame moves onto the objective
A single similar ability so doesn't make them comparable though. It comes down to overall list synergy. If you're bringing Pathfinders or Stealth Suits your going to be pairing them with Crisis Suit Alpha strikes or Devilfish to protect the Pathfinders as long as possible/get them into position faster. Along with that, Stealth Suits are very durable compared to kroot while having a greater shooting threat and fly and the full ability to lock pregame movements into a deployment zone. So again, the competitive value of kroot is just their ability to fill in troop taxes cheaply to allow the other strengths of the list to be more optimized. The pregame move to prevent a pregame move doesn't make sense as they will still be able to push forward at least 8in on pretty much any map if they are mirroring you. It's ok to like kroot and they do serve a purpose competitively. Be cheap and expendable so other aspects of your list do what they need to do. Anything past that is just icing on the cake or an after thought. Expecting anything more is a CP/point sink to try and make them better.
I too hate Kroot. But the reason I hate them is because I got into Tau because of the actual Tau, and not this other race. Unfortunately, they seem like they are in a good place if you are trying to be seriously competitive.
So in the community it most likely seen as the positional relay WON'T allow turn 1 reserves as it just says to count the turn as 1 higher for WHERE reserves can come in not WHEN. What do you say to this argumentation.
I can see both sides of the argument, with the anount of different options on this i would be suprised if GW did not include this in the post codex drop faq
Don't agree on the call on the Heavy support slot. I guarantee you're gonna see way more Broadsides in high ranking T'au lists than Hammerheads. Broadside rails are amazing with the free mortals and solid damage. Also seemed to miss that Broadsides have receiving a ton of buffs. Hammerheads are glass cannons and just can't compare to the resiliency that Broadsides will have with shield drones, infantry keyword letting them walk through walls, up floors, and have a 1+cover and finally having 8 wounds each. Ethereal buffs for 5+++ and -1 to hit make these guys a solid To The Last option. I think Riptides are still solid but the fatigue of Triptide from 8th has people glancing over them :/
You also need to say HH explode like they are loaded with nuclear reactors, d6 mortal wounds can really mess up your firering line, and the devilfish do the same. A bit too much in my mind.
So is the Tigershark not finished yet or will it never be in the new codex, and I have to buy an older book to use it? I was just surprised to not see it at all in the book.
Great video, and kroot forever! Lol i usually take a lot of them in my lists but thats just for flavor really I will say i think you guys are missing out on pathfinders though. Its not so much that you need MORE shots but that they actually have more firepower than a strike team if you add a pulse accelerator and recon drone, so they can take their place in a devilfish to protect them first turn and still combat debark and fire markerlights (since they start the action at the end of movement)
I know this vid came out before Armor of Contempt was a thing but hearing the guy say "I don't know why you'd need AP4" made me laugh... I'm just getting back into 40k after about 7 years out (I was really angry at the End Times debacle), and my first game using Tau again this past weekend was against Thousand Sons (Cult of Time for healing back dead stuff...), and holy crap Tau do not like all those psychic powers. I lost both Stealth squads and a firewarrior squad before I even got a turn. Riptide chewed up some scarab termies in turn 1 so in turn 2 it got focused with psychic powers and easily wiped out... hammerhead had a similar fate, as did my single Broadside squad (two guys). My one moral victory was the HH railgun was able to single-shot erase an infernal master in turn 1 and then Ahriman in turn 2. I used Tau sept so that I had the +3" on the commander's auras and made good use of it when my opponent started hitting my squads with the psychic power that hurts you when you move.
Love the new codex, but I now need to surgically remove some Cyclic Ion Blasters from a few of my XV8’s that were loaded up with 2 or 3. Quick question on the “fusion blade”. I don’t believe that it is in the new codex, but my WH40k app lists fusion blades in the weapons section. I have the 9th edition tau codex book code plugged into my account, so that was interesting.
I'm totally in the snap off and magnetize everything now boat too haha. Unfortunately, the Warhammer 40,000 app isn't too reliable at this time and has lots of errors throughout it. I do hope they fix it soon though as it would be amazing to have an accurate one stop shop for rules and list construction. I do think the Thermoneutronic Projector is a great replacement for it game play wise, though. -Lio
Coldstar is still one of the punchiest especially with the thermo flamer and onager gaunlet and has access to the greatly buffed HOBC. Great movement still and its always bettter having a coldstart for late game. The advance move can get your crisis suits to book it. I think the Enforcer is super overrated, the -1 shouldn't come into play very often, and Obsec might be forcing your crisis to split duties. Low movement doesnt grant a lot of flexibility either. Crisis Commander probably has one of the strongest auras especially camping around Broadsides.
@@saratbrayton4200 I have one I like that just EATS large blob squads and can kinda deal with big tough targets, which is good paired with a unit of Plasma/CIB/Missile Crisis. Keep the High Output Burst, 10 shots at 5 -1 1 isnt bad. Next you buy a normal Burst and upgrade to the DW-02 Advanced Burst, its 8 shots at 6 -1 1 BUT it ignores wound stopping abilites, so FnP OR things like Ghaz or even the Ctans limit of 3 wounds per phase. Next you go with Borkan, or as I refer to them Brokan, For the 4 inch range, both bursts now 22 inch, and anything S7 or less is -1 Str against him. Last you take both Seeker of Perfection and Overdrive Systems from Borkan. Seeker means when you shoot ALL attacks are -1 AP, so -3 AP Burst cannons at 18 inch on turn 1 Montka, -2 at full 22 inches, it also invlicts 1 mortal wound on each roll of a 6, limit 3 per phase. The Relic, the Overdrive, is you select 2 weapons and they get +1 to wound at half range, so at 11 inches with Str 5/6 youll now be wounding 70+% of the game on 2s and a good bit of the game on 3s, and against anything T6 or higher its still 4s/5s with the normal High Output and 3s/4s with the DW. Also being Borkan this allows the Experimental Weaponry Strat, which IF you can hit and wound with that DW-02 enough means that you can almost one shot a Ctan/Ghaz/Phoenix lord off the table. Also didnt think but this ends up being a MEAN Overwatch suit. 18 shots that since your in half range, likely 9-10 inches away, means Charging it anytime in the first 3 turns is nearly suicide. Cause those are all -3 ap, Montka is 9 at its shortest and most wont try charges over that, and with it being Borkan you can Ignor Invulns if they try somthing like a Chaplain or such with a good invuln. Yes still have to hit but it makes EVERY SINGLE shot that does hit pretty much guarantee a wound.
@@DareToWonder But here is somthing Ive come to feel. Ob Sec is pointless unless your opponent has it. If neither have it then it doesnt matter. Also Crisis should be following a old military idiom. Your opponent cant shot/stop you if they arnt there. AKA Crisis are meant to REMOVE your opponent not sit there and back and forth with them. If your Crisis are on a Obj with a opponents unit less than 4 inches away youve done somthing MASSIVELY wrong.
@@memnarch129 i think it ads a lot more options and removes prasure from killing masses of units and allows you to go after the most dangerous targets.
Thx fot the review but i really would like it more if you can leave out your personal feelings about units. I get it thath some people love and other don't love Kroot but just make a neutral review. This whole review was at some parts more personal feeling than competetive review. But still keep uo the good work looking forward for additional vids.
Thanks for the feedback! We all definitely have some solid stances based on our own experience which I suppose gives some varying flavor to what is “best”
From the standpoint of this being a competitive review, I just don't rate kroot very highly, so I wanted to express that. They are cheap, but the amount of support they have is limited, they provide soft targets in an army that can generally thrive on being difficult to kill, and their increased melee proficiency still isn't great. We definitely plan on adjusting the format as we go though, so we'll work on that (and honestly just being more comfortable speaking in front of a camera haha).
No models on the table really takes away from the presentation of the video. It would have been really cool if you pulled out the mini's as you talked about them. Little pop-up pictures and talking heads just isn't going to keep most people's attention.
I keep seeing "Coldstar has fallen out of favor" and I just dont agree. Yes it isnt this crazy 40 inch Uber Assassin anymore. But you know what it is? Its a lynchpin for guaranteeing Montka range on Suits. That Auto 8 inch advance paired with the Crisis new 10 inch move means their Montka on Turn 1 is 36 inches. When playing on boards that are on average 48, no Im NOT cutting either 4 inches off just one side or 2 off BOTH players sides when plywood comes in 48 inch pieces, by 60 a 36 inch threat is pretty much a guaranteed Montka range from LoS blocking cover on turn 1. Seems people see "oh they change so they must play the new 9th way and objective hold". No they dont have to, thats the Anvil formation where they weather the storm. the Coldstar is there for the SLEDGEHAMMER Formation which follows a old Military Philosophy. Your opponent can not hold or contest a objective if your opponent isnt there.
You're totally right that it is still very useful to position crisis units where they need to be to kill opponent. And by no means were we saying the Coldstar is bad. You do need to look at it from the perspective of what is more important to winning against high level players though. A unit swiping an objective from you because they are obsec can totally turn a game on its head with a small or large point swing. Having your shooting being dictated at specific targets after being charged can mess up your shooting efficiency to a point where you just don't get enough rounds on where they need to be, even after clearing off what was touching you. So giving that durable Crisis unit obsec or fallback and shoot is much better for game play than the flat 18in move, especially when you can still accomplish a flat 16in move with Dynamic Offensive for 1CP. All of those things considered, we just rate the Crisis and Enforcer Commander just a little above the Coldstar. You wouldn't be wrong to take one though, they are still very solid choices, just like pretty much everything in this book. -Lio
Good video, though a couple of things:
- Shame they didn't discuss Aun'Va, Farsight or Shadowsun as they are in the running for best HQ's in the faction, even though I agree with your picks in this slot, it would he nice if the named HQ's were compared
- 100% dissagree on Strike Teams vs Breachers as Breachers in Devilfish is one of the strongest things this book can do. Great unit to flip objectives with
- Broadsides are the best Heavy Support because they're infantry now and CORE
Agree with everything else
Everything else I pretty much agree with
Im a brand new warhammer player and found this video super helpful and also entertaining. The dynamic between these two kept me engaged the whole time. Looking forward to getting some Kroot 😉
That’s awesome! Thanks so much for the positive feedback 🙏🏼 #teamkroot +1 lol
Great video guys
Thank you!
Yeah I can attest to the Riptides capability in melee. My game last night my Necron opponent decided to charge my forward Riptide with EWO and HBC.
He made it into CC with one wound left, did like 4 wounds to my Riptide, and then I punched him, 3 hits, 3 wounds, dead overlord.
Hot damn!
you're seriously underrating the kroot, even in a non dalyth army, a single unit of kroot is super useful for that pregame move to rush towards an objective or to screen, while being nearly half the cost of pathfinders
So what can that accomplish that a montkaing Devilfish or a Stealth suite team can't do besides putting a mediocre melee unit out closer to the enemy? An easier to kill unit at that. Kroot are great for just filling out battalions and patrols for less points, but if you are really expecting them to do anything but quickly die without a great deal of support being invested in them they wont do much more than that.
The army has 0 difficulty with getting out to midfield objectives or clearing off things that happen to stand on them. So rushing out to meet them is not a concern.
Comparing them to Pathfinders is apples to oranges, especially their point costs. They are fundamentally different in every aspect, from force organization to utility. So I'm very confused as to why they are being compared here. -Lio
@@BlackRabbitGaming i'm comparing the kroot to the pathfinders for the pregame move and generally higher mobility. yes, a montkaing devilfish or stealth teams can do that effectively, but at a way higher cost. you can easily get 1-2 kroot units for the price of a stealth team and take more with them
and no, obviously you're not gonna rush an objective if you can clearly see you'll get blown off of it immediately. but you do this if there's line of sight between the objective and the enemy, or if you're going first on smaller boards you do this to potentially prevent the enemy from doing his own pregame moves onto the objective
A single similar ability so doesn't make them comparable though. It comes down to overall list synergy. If you're bringing Pathfinders or Stealth Suits your going to be pairing them with Crisis Suit Alpha strikes or Devilfish to protect the Pathfinders as long as possible/get them into position faster.
Along with that, Stealth Suits are very durable compared to kroot while having a greater shooting threat and fly and the full ability to lock pregame movements into a deployment zone. So again, the competitive value of kroot is just their ability to fill in troop taxes cheaply to allow the other strengths of the list to be more optimized.
The pregame move to prevent a pregame move doesn't make sense as they will still be able to push forward at least 8in on pretty much any map if they are mirroring you.
It's ok to like kroot and they do serve a purpose competitively. Be cheap and expendable so other aspects of your list do what they need to do. Anything past that is just icing on the cake or an after thought. Expecting anything more is a CP/point sink to try and make them better.
I too hate Kroot. But the reason I hate them is because I got into Tau because of the actual Tau, and not this other race. Unfortunately, they seem like they are in a good place if you are trying to be seriously competitive.
For the combat commander, I reached back to the config names of old and nicknamed it the Neutron Star configuration.
So in the community it most likely seen as the positional relay WON'T allow turn 1 reserves as it just says to count the turn as 1 higher for WHERE reserves can come in not WHEN.
What do you say to this argumentation.
I can see both sides of the argument, with the anount of different options on this i would be suprised if GW did not include this in the post codex drop faq
Don't agree on the call on the Heavy support slot. I guarantee you're gonna see way more Broadsides in high ranking T'au lists than Hammerheads. Broadside rails are amazing with the free mortals and solid damage. Also seemed to miss that Broadsides have receiving a ton of buffs. Hammerheads are glass cannons and just can't compare to the resiliency that Broadsides will have with shield drones, infantry keyword letting them walk through walls, up floors, and have a 1+cover and finally having 8 wounds each. Ethereal buffs for 5+++ and -1 to hit make these guys a solid To The Last option. I think Riptides are still solid but the fatigue of Triptide from 8th has people glancing over them :/
You also need to say HH explode like they are loaded with nuclear reactors, d6 mortal wounds can really mess up your firering line, and the devilfish do the same. A bit too much in my mind.
I found this video helpful tbh
Well thank you 🙏🏼
So is the Tigershark not finished yet or will it never be in the new codex, and I have to buy an older book to use it? I was just surprised to not see it at all in the book.
Its a forge world model, it will not be in the main codex
-Mike
Great video, and kroot forever! Lol i usually take a lot of them in my lists but thats just for flavor really
I will say i think you guys are missing out on pathfinders though. Its not so much that you need MORE shots but that they actually have more firepower than a strike team if you add a pulse accelerator and recon drone, so they can take their place in a devilfish to protect them first turn and still combat debark and fire markerlights (since they start the action at the end of movement)
I know this vid came out before Armor of Contempt was a thing but hearing the guy say "I don't know why you'd need AP4" made me laugh...
I'm just getting back into 40k after about 7 years out (I was really angry at the End Times debacle), and my first game using Tau again this past weekend was against Thousand Sons (Cult of Time for healing back dead stuff...), and holy crap Tau do not like all those psychic powers. I lost both Stealth squads and a firewarrior squad before I even got a turn. Riptide chewed up some scarab termies in turn 1 so in turn 2 it got focused with psychic powers and easily wiped out... hammerhead had a similar fate, as did my single Broadside squad (two guys). My one moral victory was the HH railgun was able to single-shot erase an infernal master in turn 1 and then Ahriman in turn 2. I used Tau sept so that I had the +3" on the commander's auras and made good use of it when my opponent started hitting my squads with the psychic power that hurts you when you move.
Love the new codex, but I now need to surgically remove some Cyclic Ion Blasters from a few of my XV8’s that were loaded up with 2 or 3. Quick question on the “fusion blade”. I don’t believe that it is in the new codex, but my WH40k app lists fusion blades in the weapons section. I have the 9th edition tau codex book code plugged into my account, so that was interesting.
I'm totally in the snap off and magnetize everything now boat too haha. Unfortunately, the Warhammer 40,000 app isn't too reliable at this time and has lots of errors throughout it. I do hope they fix it soon though as it would be amazing to have an accurate one stop shop for rules and list construction. I do think the Thermoneutronic Projector is a great replacement for it game play wise, though. -Lio
@@BlackRabbitGaming Thanks! Wish me luck on not committing model surgical malpractice with the clippers, pin vice..etc 😂
Haha good luck with it all for sure! -Lio
Release the 3er one already!! Hahhaja, nice work
Haha I’m trying!!!
Have to adopt that Kauyon life until part 3 drops.
It used to be that the Coldstar was THE BEST but now he is good but not head and shoulders above everyone else. (Moving 40" was obscene)
Coldstar is still one of the punchiest especially with the thermo flamer and onager gaunlet and has access to the greatly buffed HOBC. Great movement still and its always bettter having a coldstart for late game. The advance move can get your crisis suits to book it. I think the Enforcer is super overrated, the -1 shouldn't come into play very often, and Obsec might be forcing your crisis to split duties. Low movement doesnt grant a lot of flexibility either. Crisis Commander probably has one of the strongest auras especially camping around Broadsides.
@@saratbrayton4200 going from having some point presence from ZERO point presence is a big improvement. It makes a world of diffrence.
@@saratbrayton4200 I have one I like that just EATS large blob squads and can kinda deal with big tough targets, which is good paired with a unit of Plasma/CIB/Missile Crisis. Keep the High Output Burst, 10 shots at 5 -1 1 isnt bad. Next you buy a normal Burst and upgrade to the DW-02 Advanced Burst, its 8 shots at 6 -1 1 BUT it ignores wound stopping abilites, so FnP OR things like Ghaz or even the Ctans limit of 3 wounds per phase. Next you go with Borkan, or as I refer to them Brokan, For the 4 inch range, both bursts now 22 inch, and anything S7 or less is -1 Str against him. Last you take both Seeker of Perfection and Overdrive Systems from Borkan. Seeker means when you shoot ALL attacks are -1 AP, so -3 AP Burst cannons at 18 inch on turn 1 Montka, -2 at full 22 inches, it also invlicts 1 mortal wound on each roll of a 6, limit 3 per phase. The Relic, the Overdrive, is you select 2 weapons and they get +1 to wound at half range, so at 11 inches with Str 5/6 youll now be wounding 70+% of the game on 2s and a good bit of the game on 3s, and against anything T6 or higher its still 4s/5s with the normal High Output and 3s/4s with the DW. Also being Borkan this allows the Experimental Weaponry Strat, which IF you can hit and wound with that DW-02 enough means that you can almost one shot a Ctan/Ghaz/Phoenix lord off the table.
Also didnt think but this ends up being a MEAN Overwatch suit. 18 shots that since your in half range, likely 9-10 inches away, means Charging it anytime in the first 3 turns is nearly suicide. Cause those are all -3 ap, Montka is 9 at its shortest and most wont try charges over that, and with it being Borkan you can Ignor Invulns if they try somthing like a Chaplain or such with a good invuln. Yes still have to hit but it makes EVERY SINGLE shot that does hit pretty much guarantee a wound.
@@DareToWonder But here is somthing Ive come to feel. Ob Sec is pointless unless your opponent has it. If neither have it then it doesnt matter. Also Crisis should be following a old military idiom. Your opponent cant shot/stop you if they arnt there. AKA Crisis are meant to REMOVE your opponent not sit there and back and forth with them. If your Crisis are on a Obj with a opponents unit less than 4 inches away youve done somthing MASSIVELY wrong.
@@memnarch129 i think it ads a lot more options and removes prasure from killing masses of units and allows you to go after the most dangerous targets.
Always bet on the Mobile Infantry. Those guys shoot nukes and jet away!
Nuke em Rico!
X2 Tiger Sharks? I thought you were only limited to one aircraft model per army?
At 2k points you are allowed 2
It is 1 aircraft allowed per 1000 points in your army, so 2 for a 2k game.
@@ElCampeondelEmperador Cheers!
@@michaelgruenberg5399 Awesome cheers!
@@michaelgruenberg5399 How does it work for Remora Drones? Still the same? Just seems a bit poop to take two Remoras :(
Thx fot the review but i really would like it more if you can leave out your personal feelings about units. I get it thath some people love and other don't love Kroot but just make a neutral review. This whole review was at some parts more personal feeling than competetive review. But still keep uo the good work looking forward for additional vids.
Thanks for the feedback! We all definitely have some solid stances based on our own experience which I suppose gives some varying flavor to what is “best”
From the standpoint of this being a competitive review, I just don't rate kroot very highly, so I wanted to express that. They are cheap, but the amount of support they have is limited, they provide soft targets in an army that can generally thrive on being difficult to kill, and their increased melee proficiency still isn't great.
We definitely plan on adjusting the format as we go though, so we'll work on that (and honestly just being more comfortable speaking in front of a camera haha).
No models on the table really takes away from the presentation of the video. It would have been really cool if you pulled out the mini's as you talked about them. Little pop-up pictures and talking heads just isn't going to keep most people's attention.
I would have to agree! We were scrambling though since we were later than we wanted to on releasing this series and the Tau weren’t painted 😵💫
I'm getting an "invalid or expired" on your Discord link. Thought you should know.
Oh no. Give me 5 mins and I’ll update the link!
Kroot are S-tier
I keep seeing "Coldstar has fallen out of favor" and I just dont agree. Yes it isnt this crazy 40 inch Uber Assassin anymore. But you know what it is? Its a lynchpin for guaranteeing Montka range on Suits. That Auto 8 inch advance paired with the Crisis new 10 inch move means their Montka on Turn 1 is 36 inches. When playing on boards that are on average 48, no Im NOT cutting either 4 inches off just one side or 2 off BOTH players sides when plywood comes in 48 inch pieces, by 60 a 36 inch threat is pretty much a guaranteed Montka range from LoS blocking cover on turn 1.
Seems people see "oh they change so they must play the new 9th way and objective hold". No they dont have to, thats the Anvil formation where they weather the storm. the Coldstar is there for the SLEDGEHAMMER Formation which follows a old Military Philosophy. Your opponent can not hold or contest a objective if your opponent isnt there.
You're totally right that it is still very useful to position crisis units where they need to be to kill opponent. And by no means were we saying the Coldstar is bad. You do need to look at it from the perspective of what is more important to winning against high level players though.
A unit swiping an objective from you because they are obsec can totally turn a game on its head with a small or large point swing. Having your shooting being dictated at specific targets after being charged can mess up your shooting efficiency to a point where you just don't get enough rounds on where they need to be, even after clearing off what was touching you. So giving that durable Crisis unit obsec or fallback and shoot is much better for game play than the flat 18in move, especially when you can still accomplish a flat 16in move with Dynamic Offensive for 1CP.
All of those things considered, we just rate the Crisis and Enforcer Commander just a little above the Coldstar. You wouldn't be wrong to take one though, they are still very solid choices, just like pretty much everything in this book. -Lio
Kroot not croot