Can we just talk about how Jagged Stone, a grown ass man who'd abandoned his wife and kids just so he could be rich and famous, got redeemed, but CHLOE, a teenage girl who neglected by her mom HASN'T??
I KNOW RIGHT? I guess dads who abandoned his family can be redeemed but not kids who are bad because their parents neglected and abused them 😩 Thomas really should have leave to buy milk
It would be really cute if Chloe named all of her many Worker Bees, and got upset when someone called one of them by the wrong name. It’d add a layer to her character as her mom would frequently forget her name and I would imagine that would really stick with her.
OMG I WANNA SEE THIS NOW 😭 BRO’S OUT HERE WRITING BETTER THAN THOMAS ASTRUC (Not that hard,but still, put this man on the miraculous ladybug writing team)
Or if Catra from She-Ra was never redeemed, because "she was mean to Adora", completely disregarding the years of abuse from Shadow Weaver that would make her act the way she did? Even better, make that abuse into a haha funny moment? Yeah.
@@irisoftheeye ugh,can you imagine how bad that would look? Like,”Hey,here’s a character that was abused both mentally and physically! Guess what? She’s not getting redemption! You know who will get redeemed? Their abuser! Catra was just too mean for her to be redeemed!”
Chloe is a teen girl written by a man who hates teen girls Funfact: if your character has a bee theme to it. I will instantly love it. Same goed for hats. I love big hats
I think there's something about her/her personality being based on a girl who bullied him or something when he was still in school, if that's true, imagine holding a grudge that strong that you make a character to trash on (a character that doesn't deserve it too). How childish, smh.
I absolutely adored Chloe, really pissed me off that she lost the Bee because she was manipulated but Nino gets to keep the turtle despite revealing Adrien's identity because he was jealous Edit: Nino revealed his and Alya's identities TO Adrian.
@@callimara (spoilers I supposed) whats even more hypocrite is Ladybug saying everyone should keep their identities secret but told Alya she's Ladybug. And how Ladybug let Kagami keep her Miraculous even when Kagami identity was known, same with other heroes but Ladybug allowed them to keep it expect Chloe. Ladybug is a hypocrite 🙄
Chloe loving being Queen Bee shows a lot about her. She is, at her core, a good person. She wants to help people. She wants to do good things. That alone should make her redeemable. She can unlearn her bad behavior because she clearly wants to be a good person
Eh, I wouldn't say *alll that* . I think it mostly has to do with the fact that she wanted to have a purpose in this world, and the only purpose that she had was being a daddy's girl and flexing all his money to her other classmates. Becoming queen bee gave her an actual purpose, and I think that could hone down a much better message in the show then "mean people don't change because they're mean1!!11!1!!" Because Thomas... you're literally telling little kids who are probably like chloe irl to not change. And I don't think any of us want that. But hey, that's just my take.
Yeah,I saw it the same way.It makes sense she feels as if she can only feel like a good person by being Queen Bee seeing how the class treats her like she can never change
It’s a side of her that invites cooperation. Though I’d ask if the Chloe herself sees Queen Bee and Chloe Bourgeois as two different people on some level. She’s self aware to know that everyone hates her and describes herself as useless. One of two ways I can see this manifest is her seeing the bee miraculous as the *only* thing giving her value and the only way she can redeem herself. The other way is her separating her regular self from Queen Bee in her head and wants to spend as little time being Chloe Bourgeois as possible. If we had to work with Miracle Queen the why not have her be more angry and heartbroken at loosing the bee miraculous? In season four have her be less angry and annoyed and have her be more melancholic. Have her really act a lot less extreme and try to push others away because in her own eyes she sees herself as irredeemable.
This would be compounded by Zoe’s arrival as instead of protesting Zoe’s acceptance she’d slink into the background making off handed remarks here or there.
*[taps on microphone, leans in]* Chloé could have been as complex and beloved a character as Prince Zuko from ATLA if Astruc wasn't a petty coward only capable of writing two dimensional characters to fulfil some weird self-insert revenge fantasy, thanks for coming to my TedTalk (and thanks to Callimara for doing yet another amazing redesign to soothe my bitter little heart over this writhing mass of wasted potential)
THIIIIIISSSSSSS. I honestly haven't even bothered to watch season 4 because of how angered and frustrated I was at season 3 ending. Plus when I read up on the shit going ON in season 4 it makes me even more frustrated to the point that I currently don't really care about the show right now. Only thing I care about are redesigns/discusses about the writing/characters and the loss of potential
@@ChaoticNalilitoMC Yeah, I personally stopped watching around midway through Season 3, when the cracks really started showing with the Adrien-Marinette dynamic. I had a horrible premonition and backed away slowly- and then I heard about the season finale. I've never been more annoyed about being right. I just- really love a complex character (and I enjoy female characters who are just allowed to be abrasive), and Chloé could have sent such a powerful, nuanced message to the target audience: if someone acts this way to you, you don't have to tolerate or excuse their meanness, but be aware that they're also human; and if you're acting this way, you can always be better, even if that process is messy and you fall back into bad habits sometimes- it matters that you try. I was looking forward to Chloé being the semi-harmlessly bitchy, sometimes awkwardly kind, rival-turned-friend to Marinette that I saw popping up in fanfic. But then Astruc took back over and *is why we can't have nice things.*
@@GMisEpicYuh asdfghj why, thank you, my good Sir/Ma'am/Honourable furry, this is the best response I've ever gotten to a comment and just made my day (it'd be ma'am, btw! Thanks for the pronoun choices- and seriously, thank you, this made me laugh and also really proud)
Fun fact, Thomas is so fixated in making Chloe mean because she is literally based off on a bully he had during grade school, this is why she behaves like a literal spoiled 10 years old child. Also, a similar thing happens with Marinette, being Thomas so biased in her favor because she is literally his own fanchild, he confessed she is what he wished his and his ex's daughter could look like if they had a child, being the reason why Mari's parents are called Tom and Sabinne as the ex's name is literally Sabinne and is chinese as well
Oh damn I didn't know Marinette was also dragged into that weirdness- All his protectiveness of her character and attacking anyone who dislikes her suddenly makes sense...I mean, nothing about this really makes sense but now I know where that came from. Creepy.
I. Uh... Hm. That’s, uh... that’s quite the grudge there. I mean- I was bullied in grade school too, but I never made a character to drag said bully, and I’m under half of Thomas’ age. Wtf?
Also I feel bad for Thomas' ex, that must feel weird having a guy you used to date make an entire *show* surrounding a child you don't and never did have. That's a whole other level of obsessiveness. Now I know why Thomas thinks Mari's actions toward Adrien are okay.
Honestly, the fact that they not only replaced Chloé but did so with her own _sister_ is such a slap in the face. I have sisters. It fucking _hurts_ when it feels like people like your sisters more than they like you after knowing them for less time, and when your sisters can do your thing so much more easily and better than you can when it's the one thing that you work so hard to get better at and make your own. I dislike that they're replacing Chloé, but I absolutely _hate_ that they made her replacement her sister. *EDIT:* Just want to say that I'm not here to dog-pile on Zoé. I don't even know her well enough to hate her - or to feel anything about her, for that matter. I only hate what she represents and how she's narratively being used.
I feel this. My sister is way better at drawing than I am, she draws anime and I draw more cartoon like styles. I feel so shit whenever I see her art because I know she can draw better than I can and it sucks.
A sister who literally showed up out of nowhere, no foreshadowing whatsoever, and automatically has Marinette's approval and a nice personality that doesn't shake up the dynamics in any way. Zoe is so obviously nothing more than a bee miraculous replacement that it's kinda...basic.
I know! Ok, I’m of the unpopular opinion that they could’ve stuck with Chloe losing her powers. That could’ve been used to give her a wake up call and make her realise what she’s doing is wrong. But if you’re going to choose anyone to be the new Bee... why not Sabrina? While Chloe had the ferocity and temper of a bee, Sabrina has the attitude of one. Hardworking, loyal, can be really sweet... I’m just saying, that could’ve worked instead of introducing an entirely new character for that one purpose.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios that actually would’ve been fun! It’d also give Sabrina development and something to do as a character besides being Chloe’s milquetoast simp
I love how every fan hero design just looks better and closer to the animal it’s representing than the designs in the show. Don’t get me wrong, there are designs that I love, but the fan designs just hit different
I felt so disappointed when I saw how the show treated Chloe. She had potential, truly. I’ve never understood why they began to give her a redemption arc and suddenly just threw it out the window. What message are they trying to give to the younger audience? That one can never change and become better? There are so many storylines that she could have been included in as her backstory is so much more interesting than the main protagonist’s one! They could have used her as the mean girl in the first seasons and slowly added details that hinted to her background and family abuse to make the audience actually understand her actions and why not , even start sympathizing with her. Perhaps after she changes and tries to become a better person she could help Marinette pursue Adrien as it is mentioned that she was his only friend growing up and must know him better than anyone (similarly to how Kagami now helps Marinette) . Not only would it be an interesting plot but it would also cement this new and better version of Chloe . I adored your designs and concept of Chloe and Queen Bee, not only are they more visually appealing but they also reflect the character more clearly. I would love to see your approach on Alya or Luka❤️❤️❤️❤️
The reason they began to start an redemption arch and then scrap it is because when the redemption arch episodes were being created. (The insight into her family life and explanation towards her behavior) Thomas wasn’t around for the production of those episodes. (Thomas Astruc the creator of miraculous hates Chloe to her core) So when he came back they ruined any chance of redemption with season 3 finale Miracle Queen.
@@psychotictrash2384 I wasn’t aware of that. I knew Thomas was not a fan of Chloe ( I saw his comments on Twitter addressing Chloe and they were …intense) . Still, they should have continued what they started rather than change direction completely. On the other hand it’s Miraculous we are talking about, it’s not like continuity and logic is the creators’ priority 🤣
@@isabellajanevska9249 It was just an idea I had in mind haha. I still have some hope for future seasons but with Thomas hating Chloe so much…I really don’t know . All we can do is wait and hope for the best. (fingers crossed 🤞🏻)
I wanted to lay out my idea on how to implement her sister, Zoe without making her unnecessary. I HATED Zoe but I feel like the Chloe's sister arc could be a great arc if done correctly. I imagine that instead of a Miraculous holder, she could be a minor character in one or two episodes. She would be an older sister, the former talented favorite of Audrey before she suddenly cuts off from her family and runs from Paris to become an indie actress. To Chloe, Zoe was the perfect daughter who had everything she had wanted, her mother's approval, great talents, etc. but stupidly threw it away. Maybe she meets her in New York or Zoe came to visit Paris to reconcile with Chloe or smth. They would have a feud at first but Zoe may help Chloe's character arc when she explains why she left, that she was tired of their parents and their expectations on her and wanted to explore her own potential. Through her, I can also imagine Chloe slowly learning she did not need the approval of her mother and that she can be her own person.
I *love* that idea. A while back I had spent a lot of time reading fanfics with estranged siblings reconciling. They’re really nice and this concept sorta reminds me of that. That’d be really fun to see.
I literally love that idea. Chloe's naive and stubborn brattyness could play off Zoe's stoic and mature oldness really well. It reminds me of Weiss and Winter Schnee from RWBY lol
I honestly like the idea of Zoe and from what I've seen of her don't mind her design all too much. Making her the replacement for Chloe really isn't doing either of them favours. I like your idea.
SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE AN AU OF THIS Also the estranged sister plot with the former golden child becoming the black sheep and leaving behind a younger sibling kinda reminds me of Sera and Leilah from the Webtoon Unordinary-
I imagined that Chloe's mother once expressed that she liked Ladybug, whether it be in an interview, a design she made or even just saying something like "Why can't you be more like Ladybug?" and that's why Chloe wants to be like Ladybug
@@sylviac02 I mean before that, like when Ladybug appeared Chloe began to express some kind of love or admiration to her either cos she was popular or cos she just liked how she was in general I also think Chloe could admire how bossy and controlling Ladybug is and see a little bit of that in her mother so that could be another reason
@@ckaiy5250 Well, Ladybug saved her life in the origins episode when she was about to fall. I think Chloé's admiration comes from this episode and not because of her mother.
Chloe is my favorite character because she was nuanced. She was mean but had a character but Thomas ruined it in Season 3 and 4. I don't care if she's still mean honestly, it's just that they ruin her nuance in her writing that upsets me. In Season 2, she did have a fun relationship with Sabrina and her dad. In Anti bug we see Chloe playing with Sabrina but in Season 4 she now a monster for no reason honestly and it pisses me off knowing she could be written better, either a hero or a villian but no, let's just keep her and torment her for no reason. And Thomas also doesn't care about her abuse she's under and act like she isn't being abuse whatsoever when it's clear she is.
Atp i honestly think that the makers purposely ruined her entire character since people were liking Chloe more than Marinette who they were trying so hard to make 'relatable' and 'quirky' 💀
I loved the fact that whenever she and Sabrina hung out privately... They played pretend. It was the cutest thing I ever did saw. But now they've turned her into a caricature that locks Sabrina in closets. It's depressing.
Thomas said in his twitter hes comparing people who are in abusive relationship are comparing them to chloe also i heard he even said the chloe fans made chloe suffer from neglectfull parents and said we made that and that wasnt abuse they may not be phcsically abusive but mentally for sure
@@thatot7trash That has been done on other shows before. They want to make the MC the best, but rather than making them better they make everyone else worse so they look better by comparison. They said that Marinette is the smartest character on the show, but that speaks more about everyone else than it does her.
@@cryforhelp7270 that part made me go AWW so hard I even want to make an au based on their friendship cuz it's overlooked like it stared out as a healthy relationship but turned sour as Chole became meaner and distant but always came back for Sabrina whether it was just to use her to do homework for her or just needs validation. Eventually Sabrina realizes that her relationship with Chloe is toxic and might try to break off the friendship passively but then Chloe has a meltdown seeing that her closest friend is trying to leave her,Sabrina feels bad so she stays a lil longer, then the queen bee and Zoe sister arc(which happen at the same time- Zoe should have been introduced with Audrey itade no sense how it happened canonically) Chloe learns to love herself but she also feels horrible for how she treated Sabrina, meanwhile Sabrina is gaining confidence maybe she became friends with Alix and Max (or Mari but it would make more sense with those two because they are nerds) So the next time Sabrina decides 5o stand up to Chloe and say she wants to break up the friendship Chloe is more accepting to Sabrina's suprise. Maybe they might become friends again later bu
With this redesign Chloe legit went from "annoying girl that feels like a waste of screen time" to "hot mean girl I want to beg to step on me" and I'm HERE FOR IT
I love chloe so much even though the writer has ruined her, I even took the time to write an episode on how the writers can fix her, my girl needs therapy😭
@Marinette I mean yeah. you can't possible look at Marinette anymore and think she's okay, for example. Or look at Adrien and act like he's been given the support he needs to just...be a teenager.
@Marinette no. She is meant to be a normal girl??? It literally says in the intro. She wasn't written to be a yandere, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. Thomas thinks of Marinette like she's his daughter. She's WRITTEN to be a nice, likeable, and helpful protagonist. It fails.
@Marinette Cite your sources then. Because unless you can't read, or hear, it's literally in the theme song that Marinette is "just a normal girl with a normal life." She's not supposed to be an obsessive yandere.
I like Chloe's character and I found very insulting that the writers are desperately trying to make us hate Chloe by adding a boring character like Zoe, which is the definition of a "nice girl", but what I found more infuriating is that, if they wanted a supervillain girl who constantly sabotage Marinette's life they already had Lila, which is a far better choice as a villain than Chloe, and even if Lila isn't perfecly written, she is at least a more effective and rational alternative. So with Chloe's regression they are making Lila's inclusion completely useless. Anyway, I love your Chloe's redesign and rewrite.
Because honestly, Lila is a threat. Like Callimara said, Chloe isn't a threat to Marinette since the class all hates Chloe and loves Marinette and even Adrien is getting more and more annoyed by Chloe but with Lila, she has the class wrapped around her finger and is able to turn to tides on Marinette and make people believe she's being irrationally jealous causing conflict.
when i was in 7th grade we actually voted for the mean girl we didnt like to be school and class president so she had a lot of duties and didnt bother us
The reason Chloe wasn't redeemed wasn't because the showrunners didn't want her to be redeemed but because Thomas didn't want Chloe to be redeemed. He has a sort of hate for her and just wants her to be that one bully in the class, although it seems that now she's gonna work with lila to go against Marinette and possibly ladybug. Throughout the running of the show there was a point in time where Thomas wasn't on the director position at the time and so the show was ran by the other directors and writers thus causing Chloe to start improving and then suddenly loosing all her progress as a character. Thomas then returned in Miracle Queen when she betrays ladybug and gets kicked off the superhero team.
yes. just yes. and if I lived in a world where your idea and Callimara’s concepts were real, I would cry like I just saw the face of God if I saw some kind of random golden dust in front of my window, assuming it’s the icon called Queen Bee.
Honestly considering she is supposedly one of the main reasons people get Akumatised, it would have made way more sense for Ladybug to WANT Chloé to be redeemed. If she starts acting nicer, less people get negative feelings from her actions so less opportunities fkr Akumatizations to happen. The fact she only doesn't get redeemed because of Thomas Astruck's pettiness is just sad when everything else points to her redemption working really well
That always bugged me. You’d think that Ladybug would want to have as many factors that relate to akumatizations be removed as possible. But Marinette legit never thinks about that because of her negative bias towards Chloe (feel free to replace Marinette’s name with Astruc-)
@@redballoon9007 "In the daytime, I'm Thomas Astruc. Just a shitty show creator with a burning hatred for good writing." "But, there's something about me that no one knows yet...." "Cause I have a secret...." "I made a show, that's full of shit." "I tweet and my reputation takes a hit." "When fanfics come, I find a way," "To put down the writers and ruin their day" "Oh-oh-oh" "My show's gone off the fucking rails." "Oh-oh-oh" "But somehow it's not dropping sales." "Oh-oh-oh" "And when the episodes air," "That's when I have written....." "Miraculous! Simply the worst!" "My writing's why this show is so wrong!" "Miraculous! makes your head burst!" "The power of wasted ideas so strong!"
I really like how in the first two designs you made the kwamis a bigger part in the character development as well with Tikki being a stricter guiding hand for a messy Marinette and Plagg being a laid back mentor for a stiff Adrien. That's why I think Pollen could be used in the writing as a sort of "new mom" for chloe. She needs someone to look up to and learn from that isnt her doormat of a father or her toxic mother. Pollen could treat her like a queen but also be motherly by telling chloe straight up what isnt okay to do. I think it would be interesting for this little Bee Kwami to be the thing that Chloe needs to realize she can be powerful and strong for herself and not for her mothers approval, but also I feel like she wouldnt appreciate the idea of being told what's okay to do by a kwami so that could be something to play into to. All around, I love queen bee and the new redesign! ❤❤❤
This is such a great idea. One thing that's common about Chloe among the other teammembers is distrust, and there could be a 'boy cries wolf' situation, where because of her past misdeeds, the others leave her behind and don't listen to her even if she's actually trying to be a better person and holds good information (akin to the worker bee aspect), and BAM, Pollen becomes the most motherly and impactful she's ever been to Chloe as a character, and this could be a critical part to her redemption arc.
Thomas says Chloe's purpose is to be a character that represents people who have opportunities but can't change, which is a very realistic concept, but is this concept applicable to a 14 year old girl with a broken family and bad influences? I guess it's kind of hard to say she can't change even though she's so young, besides saying that she has opportunities even though her mother is a very bad influence and now lives in the same roof as her, her father doesn't usually have the authority to teach her well and her sister has good intentions but i don't know if she will have screen time to show that she is trying to help Chloe...
Yeah, it very much feels like he is blaming Chloe for getting the short-end of the parenting stick. Marinette while nowhere as rich as her has two parents who genuinely love her. Chloe meanwhile has a mother who only cares about herself, and a father who is willing to bend over for her. She would need to be out of her home situation and be getting therapy to overcome the neglect from her mom. She can't change currently, because she lacks any positive influences...not that she is stuck in her ways. In fact, she started changing the moment she had a miraculous, her first positive influence. That alone shows she has the potential to develop past it.
I love how he says that but Chloe actually did change and Thomas just committed character assassination in the end turning her 180° and kicking her down a well just after she climbed out of said well. Chloe is a bad person but a good character, she is actually developed but then all of a sudden Thomas just basically ignores all of that and resets her character. Hence, character assassination
It is very much wrong to put that character type on a child. Children can change. That character type could actually be put on Hawk Moth, because he's not only a grown adult, but has seemingly gone mad from grief and might even feel that he's made too many efforts to bring his wife back for him to turn back now.
The show freaking HAD a redemption plot RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM! Make the characters realize Chloe does what she does because she craves attention she doesn't get at home, and have her learn how to draw positive attention to herself. And the writers THREW IT AWAY!
Thomas threw it out the window. He was out for some reason for a bit and the writers actually made and started that ark themselves when he was out. When Thomas came back he was mad abt it I heard since Thomas doesn't like Chloe
I feel like Chloe could be so much more, like she and Marinette could become friends over time. Teaching Chloe to open up and be kinder so she could have actual friends who love her and make her feel welcome while also stroking Marinettes ego in the show cuz, you know, she is just so sweet and kind even the bully who hates everyone decided she likes Marinette. Also that would give Marinette a valid reason to give her the Bee. She would see Chloe is actually pretty reliable, but that would happen in like season 3 or 4
I wish chloe was someone like Cleo de Nile, a girl from a rich and influential family, a girl who's a little selfish and narcissistic but still shows care for her friends on her own way and is a good comedic character who manages to add some relaxing scenes to the show with her lines and actions I'd like to see her and marinette duo or even an alya/mari/chloe savage trio (maybe, with sabrina), see her interact with cat noir (Adrien's alter ego) as both chloe and queen bee Another wasted potential
Another thing that ruined Chloe’s character development was the introduction of Lila. Lila is an excellent character and in the beginning highlighted how Chloe was honestly the lesser of two evils. It helped reinforce the idea that someone like Chloe was much more redeemable than someone like Lila. However, due to the poor writing and the introduction of Zoe, we now have one competent and interesting villain and antagonist in Lila and one stereotypical and frustratingly annoying one in Chloe. Chloe is practically not even needed if Zoe and Lila are now in the picture. There’s a quote from a video I saw that sums up Chloe’s role as an antagonist vs Lila’s. In trying to create an Azula like character in Chloe (cunning, intelligent, premeditative) they instead created a Zuko (relatable, sympathetic, understandable). They gave Lila all the qualities of Azula and are now trying to force the notion that Chloe is the same, despite writing themselves into a corner and making her more of a Zuko. (Zuko and Azula are antatognists from Avatar: The Last Airbender btw :) )
Ironically, Azula is also sympathetic by alot of people as much as Zuko, even though she is definitely psychotic, her downfall was really hard to watch and it left alot of people feeling sorry for her ( me included), she is just a 14 yr old girl who never had a healthy figure in her life and belived fear is the only reliable way for respect and slowly lost everything including her mental health , so yeah you can make even the "iredemable villian " sympathetic but that would require complix writing ,but THOMAS, refuses to give the show any complex writing whatsoever
@@williamfinch9858 the comparison is not a total match, to even compare Lila and Chloe to Azula and Zuko is like comparing apples to oranges. The writing and characterization of ATLA is unmatched, so they’ll never fully be similar. However, I’d still say Chloe does not embody the Azula they want her to be. Not in the way that Lila does.
@@miss.mirana4061 I agree that Azula has a level sympathy, but not much. And certainly not enough that I think many people who truly value her for who she is as a character believe that she doesn’t deserve a redemption arc. Having someone as insane as Azula not be redeemable because she will never change is interesting and makes for a fascinating character.
@@small_and_dangerous2068 well i did say that they managed to make the iredemable villian have sympathetic moments, i didn't say she was fully sympathetic
The way you described wasps reminds me of the theory were someone said “what if Zoe turns out to be a bad person after all and she just played nice to steal her sisters status in Paris” which with your explanation about wasps and her as vesperia would make a lot of sense in my opinion. I would love that theory to be true but since Thomas actually said he doesn’t want fans to like Chloe cause he hates her I don’t think that will ever happen… I doubt Chloe will get a redemption
If he hated her, why did he have Chloe as a character in the first place? Also that's a petty thing to say. He doesn't want fans, the people he's basically making the show FOR, to like a certain character because he, himself, hates her? That's petty as heck. Then again, he put himself on his own show since he was basically jealous that he got less attention or whatever the real details were. That's even more petty. (Apparently I like saying petty. XD) ...In other words, screw you, I like whichever character I want.
It would be kinda great - Queen Bee doesn't see herself as a villain because she's the good (sorta like Deadpool, doing good things while still not being a hero) - she would work with the heroes more and more together and become a better person (redemption arc) and then the whole thing with Zoe happens I would call her Wilma in that instant and she becomes the Wasp and joins the bad guys but is a good person - she is sad because she has been abandoned by her mom and is mad when she finds out she has a family; so Wilma originally tries to win back her mom by trying to sabotage Chloe (giving her insight on how Marinette feels which would be a nice bonding moment) but then realizes that Chloe is also miserable and the mom sucks, so she goes to try and ruin the mom Chloe and she end up fighting in their super forms, where Chloe recognizes Wilma in a moment, refuses to fight and gets defeated and then reveals her identity to Wilma - which could be the moment where Wilma starts migrating towards good, keeping her sisters identity secret and not finishing her off Wilma gets then protected by Queen Bee when the villains find out about her siding more with the good guys, completing Bee's superhero arc and starting of the Wasps, where she joins Queen Bee and they both work together as a duo like chat and ladybug Idea for their future could be that Chloe wants to meet and get to know Wilma's dad and they move to her country and continue being heroes there while Chat and Ladybug stay in France Edit: basically that the hero group splits, with some moving out of the country and continuing their work elsewhere while others retire
@@snowball03-boop believe me I’m asking myself the same question💀 while I can justify creating a character you don’t like, I don’t know why you would give that character a redemption arc just to put her down again… and the thing about telling fans not to like her: apparently he told fans on twitter who said they liked her that she is not supposed to be liked and basically scolded them for liking her. (I don’t know what exactly was said tho, cause I don’t have twitter)
@@snowball03-boop and at this point I don’t even think he makes the show for fans anymore. He just wants to create that story he has in his head, which is great and all but if you act like him and don’t accept constructive criticism and instead start scolding and blocking fans then something most be seriously wrong with you…
Finally! I've been waiting for this redesign ever since the last one! Chloe looks AMAZING here, and I adore her outfits. What she wore in the show always bugged me cause I found it so boring for someone who's rich and has a world renowned designer mother
i wish (instead of having marinette select chloe as the bee holder) chloe had been chosen by an external force; like master fu. perhaps ladybug and cat noir had a very tough-time on one of their missions, and (in order to relieve them of some of that burden) he decides to venture out in search of a new team-member? maybe he'd happen across chloe being begged for money by a homeless individual, w her being her usual catty-self and going to abandon them, only to feel guilty and go out of her way to provide them w some fancy-lunch that had been prepped for her for school. this (paired w fu being an adult and having more perspective than marinette) would result in him both seeing her as a good-candidate, and wanting to help her embrace the kinder-side to her. someway or another, chloe would be introduced to the team and adrien (being her childhood friend) would be accepting and hopeful, whereas marinette (having suffered at the hands of chloe for years now) is extremely-displeased w this turn of events, and refuses to accept her/only begrudgingly goes along w it. perhaps chloe is being somewhat-arrogant and irritating, however she's still tries to make a good impression and is attempting to do her best at aiding them, but marinette is unable to see this due to her upset at having to work w chloe. maybe chloe begins feeling out-of-place and attempts to suck up to marinette, but to no avail, w chloe eventually messing up on a mission (due to her hast and arrogance) which results in ladybug lashing out at her - queen bee then runs off and (alike the first lila episode) ladybug gets a mouthful from cat noir for being too harsh w her? perhaps he then attempts to make it up to chloe, only for her to reject all of his attempts and demand he stop pestering her (in a short, condescending manner). maybe marinette feels bad and visits chloe in order to apologise and reason w her, resulting in chloe opening up ab her relationship w her mother (i'd imagine she'd have revealed her identity prior to these events) and marinette gaining some perspective and broadening her worldview? i dont think chloe should be forgiven for the way she's treated others immediately, however (w marinette now having this insight) maybe marinette could use this as the groundworks for helping chloe reform herself, and eventually admit fault and apologise for how she's treated her and the rest of the student-body. idk, it's rough and definitely contains a lot of discrepancies, however i think it'd open the door to a decent-exploration of all the nuances in the marinette/chloe dynamic, and how (despite there being a clear victim and abuser in said dynamic) they both have mistreated the other in some kind of way (not to demonise victims of bullying, this is specifically-targeted at marinette and chloe, not all victims and their bullies)
I wish so much that Zoe is actually like a wasp and is manipulating people into making them hate Chloe so that they like her, which could lead to an actual redemption arc where they all learn not to make immediate assumptions or whatever else but 8 know they won’t because Thomas astruck hates Chloe with a passion
To add to your party idea, I’d like it if Chloe invited Adrian and is forced to go by his dad because social class and all that rich rubbish but decided to sneak out and goes to Marinette’s instead. Him, Marri, and their small friend group have their own tiny party in her house and become closer. I don’t know, I think that’d be cute and Adrien could grow as a character to be more rebellious against his dad
Speaking of Zoe, I would like the idea keeping her to be Chloe's half-sister but more twisted. Zoe should be the opposite of Chloe, she's jealous and blames Chloe for ruined her own life because her mother abandoned her. It would be twisted if she uses Marinette as her spawn by become her "fake" friend and pretends to be sympathetic person, just like what Lila did but more darker. I imagined she would be akumatized and becomes "Vesperia" and only attacked Chloe/Queen Bee (or even her own mother) just like how the real life wasps killed bee colony. To me, instead replace with new character, Zoe should have been existed for develop Chloe's growth so that she realizes she needs letting go her mother for her own goodsake.
😭 you know the writing is bad when the popular rich mean girl is more of the underdog than the “average girl” main character. Honestly most of the time, it feels like Marinette is the popular mean girl. Especially since as ladybug she has the standing necessary to totally destroy someone’s reputation- just look at lila’s introduction (even if it felt deserved) ! Also considering the school they go too tbh i always figured all of them were rich or at least well off 😭 Like it’s just hard to believe they are “average” kids to begin with with all the stuff they do and get access to.
maybe it's just my American point of view, but also you'd think the mayor's daughter would go to nice, exclusive school (in America, it would be an expensive private school. No idea if similar things exist in France) and wouldn't go to the same school as "everyone else"
@@Sasha-zw9ss I’m pretty sure in an episode they mention that her families bakery is one of or is the most famous bakery in Paris in this universe and she also works and collaborated with a famous rockstar several times. Her family is definitely wealthy. There’s absolutely no way she isn’t. And to be honest, the fact that the show tried to pass her off as some “average everyday girl” who’s hard work earns her everything she gets makes her more annoying then Chloe. At least Chloe is honest about her wealth and doesn’t put on the whole “working girl” bs. It’s so annoying. She wouldn’t have gotten any of the opportunities she gets in the show if she wasn’t wealthy and didn’t go to a school for more well off students and they pretend that she’s just a “hard worker.” Sorry for the rant, it just bothers me and someone finally brought it up.
If her heel was a stinger i think it would be good to maybe include something about her being a ballet dancer/ or a dancer in general, where her fighting looks like she is dancing
I would honestly like it if Zoe was introduced to help progress Chloe's character. Zoe is shown to accept the fact that her mother wouldn't be proud of her and perhaps, she could've instead helped Chloe to find validation elsewhere like she had. I didn't actually mind her introduction but her as a character now just destroys Chloe's. I think it would be good if they kept her personality but changed up her interaction with Chloe or change her personality to be more of a mean girl than Chloe, allowing Chloe to see for herself how vain she is and start to question if being mean really is what she wants.
Honestly I thought about it before but it does not make sense make her same age as Chloe so like if they want add Zoe then maybe Make her 4-6 year younger then Chloe because ( this just my fanfic Or headcanon i gusse idk ) let just say her mother left her when she was 5 year old and her mother just left her for another man and got pregnant. Once she reach in her teen year she felt betrayed by her own mother because she just found out she have another sister and once she met her sister for first time everything is just reminding her when she was younger and later on she got redeem. Again If they would add Zoe I think it would be better if she was a child and not a teenager
@@swiftyleaf agreed. If Zoe had been at most a tween, it would make sense. Part of me thinks Astruc did not think about the fact that Audrey would need time before she had another pregnancy since it's very dangerous to have two with little time in-between. I don't know about you but Audrey seems to be a narcissist, meaning she would care more for her own well-being than anyone else. Since Chloe is like 14-15, the oldest I think Zoe could be is 11-12. (Assuming Audrey immediately cheated on her husband.)
@@mastertofu honestly it is impossible to get pregnant again 4-5 week after when you just gave birth to baby because it happens to my mom but surprisingly she was fine anyway it would beTter if Zoe was 10-12 year old and Chloe is 15
Maybe Zoe could still be Queen Bee, but not like a replacement. It could be like when Alya got the Ladybug miraculous because Marinette trusted her because she went on a trip. Zoe could’ve been just someone to help Chloe develop, and use the miraculous only once when Chloe was absent. Chloe is the definition of waste of potential.
@@wordswstupidtile in the scenario where Zoe still gets the bee miraculous I think it’d be interesting if Chloe somehow finds out she’s vesperia and is over come with jealousy and steals the miraculous from her but inevitably gives it back realizing what she’s doing is wrong which could show her character growth or have Zoe find out Chloe was queen bee and give the miraculous back to her out of guilt
Honestly this character makes my heart hurt. She feels so much like what an actual child in a toxic family situation would struggle with. Even the fact her character is basically abandoned for the half sister. It’s much like how parents who divorce/cheat favor their new family over their other children. This is a terrible message, especially for a child in a position similar to Chloe’s to see. Especially since we see there’s more to her. It’s like if avatar scrapped Zuko’s character arc after season 1.
Playing favorites in writing and in the show itself as Chloe’s father ships her off with her mom to “fix her behavior” while Zoe stays in Paris. Absolute dog water.
First and foremost I love the redesign, it screams "authority". And I like how your version of Chloe would act, but personally, I think that for the sake of her redemption she should act a bit different. Either make her being mean to Marinette somehow special, like having her "knocking her down a peg" as a child one of a few things that her mother actively praised her for, or make her being mean to Marinette be a conflict of interests, not something she actively strives for, like her putting pressure on Marinette during the election isn't because she cares about Marinette but because she wants to be class president to make her parents proud. (side note: I would love it if as you said she won but Marinette being in 2nd makes her a VP and they need to work together for some stuff like class completion and surprising everyone they work perfectly together, hinting at the possibility of them becoming friends/teammates later down the line) And the thing that I have only issue with is her bee-haviour as Queen Bee, I think that it would make a good contrast bee-tween her look and personality if she treats other heroes like equals or if in the case of Ladybug and Chat Noir with respect. It would hint that her true personality isn't as bad as it may seem at first glance, but still make her treat Akumas and Hawkmoth as lesser of her.
Thomas decided to walk back Chloe’s development to make her a villain, but there’s already a perfectly good antagonist in Lila. Lila could be the Chloe that Chloe was to Mari.
They don't even need to make Chloe the bestest friend ever to Marinette, they could still have her be a mean girl but she starts to gain a new respect for Marinette and Marinette, while she still doesn't like Chloe, at least acknowledges that she does well as Queen Bee so when Lila comes into the picture and tries to ruin their lives, they team up to expose Lila for the liar she is.
Lila would've made a better "irredeemable villain" than Chloe tbh. Unlike Chloe who acts like a brat to prove her mother that she's an exceptional person, Lila is a pathological liar who lies to get whatever she wants. Chloe has an abusive mom and an enabler father that gets her whatever she wants instead of disciplining her. Lila has a loving mother and still lies just for the sake of it. Chloe has proven that she's a good hero and is capable of changing and has resisted Hawk Moth's akumatization, while Lila has never shown any sign of being able to change
Something that I had in my mind for some time was Chloe’s role in Adrian’s life as his friend. Even though she’s supposed to be the mean girl, that doesn’t exactly mean she is like that to everyone. Sometimes even the most terrible people can be capable of caring about someone and being kind to them. Perhaps, if your version keeps Hawk Moth finding out his son is Chat Noir in some form, perhaps Chat also finds out his father is Hawk Moth and leaves his father as a result of it. He turns to Chloe, who is already Queen Bee at this point, about his secret in fear that his father would hurt him (whether his father ever intended to hurt his son from this information or not can be up to you, but perhaps if he didn’t, then this can be a consequence for his actions against Chat Noir and his neglect towards his son). Chloe agrees to keep Adrian’s secret safe with her and allows him to say in a different hotel room in the same hotel as a means of protection. This can demonstrate their friendship and trust, including the advantage of having one miraculous whose identity is out in the open. The other miraculous holders Queen Bee considers her workers, especially her friends, and therefore will protect them if they are ever in danger. Perhaps this is something Chat Noir doesn’t tell Lady Bug or the other miraculous holders, because he doesn’t want to worry them and since Chloe knows him better than anyone, he knows she’s not going to allow anyone to hurt him or anyone. Lady Bug does find out eventually at some point and Is upset Chat never went to her, being they work together so much and she isn’t aware of their history. But then, Queen Bee reminds Lady Bug that Chat Noir does trust her, but also needs to understand that Chat Noir’s arch enemy is his father and no one can ever respond in anything but fear and hurt with that kind of News. Not to mention this same father had neglected his son for so long. It’s an interesting way of Marinet learning that despite how mean Chloe is to her at school, she does genuinely care about the other miraculous.
I would love for this version of Chloe to have a mutually beneficial rivalry with Marinette. At the beginning of the show they despise each other but then form a sort of friendship once they come to understand each other. Marinette helps Chloe to be a kinder, more empathetic person while Chloe helps Marinette improve as a hero by holding her to high standards and holding Marinette accountable for her mistakes and shortcomings. Chloe could be an excellent catalyst for Marinettes growth and, in a way, she could be there for her when no one else is because she would be the first and/or only friend to call her out on her bullshit.
I would find it so funny if Chloe, when watching from a distance and being the perfectionist she is, just straight up criticizes the actions of the enemies, like nitpicking and judging them, so she can get out her tendency towards perfectionism and learn to be more helpfully criticizing. Like, humor therapy or something.
“UH, YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE A SPEEDSTER VILLAIN AND YOU’RE IN THAT TACKY LOW HEM DRESS? HOW DO YOU EVEN RUN IN THOSE? YOU WOULD LOOK BETTER IN RAGS THAT THAT DISASTER OF A OUTFIT”
Unpopular opinion probably but I think Zoe could have been great. They were just too focused on replacing Chloe to actually give her the time to develop as a character before she got her hands on a miraculous. She was extremely rushed just because she was treated more as another way to destroy Chloe than as a new character. I think it would have been so much more interesting is Zoe and Chloe were forced to interact more and maybe even learn from each other to improve themselves: Zoe could have properly learned to stand up for herself and be confident from Chloe and Chloe could have learned how to be kinder towards others and put her mean girl persona to good use instead of her just being a mean girl by having to stand up for her sister. They are both portrayed in the show as having these flaws because of their mother after all. Why not let them grow and heal from that together?
Well, from Chloe stating that she’s herself is useless I don’t think she has true confidence herself leading to bumps down the road, but that could just be something she needs to learn to help Zoe.
Scarlet Lady is amazing with how often the characters change clothes, Chloe included and she. Is. FABULOUS. Even different hairstyles and Chloe rocks them all!
Yes. But that's sadly a Chloe salt fic. And Marinette is just the hero again. It's not a fun AU because it's just another Marinette is the best UwU. It's annoying.
The fact that Chloe was replaced by Zoe is so pathetic to me, since Chloe actually had potential and Zoe was literally some stranger. Sure, she is Chloe's half sister, but that doesn't mean that Chloe should just be ignored like in the show. To be honest, watching Zoe get the bee miraculous and then save everyone and stuff just made me hate Zoe more, since it just meant that the show was saying that we should just hate Chloe and love Zoe instead. I disliked her at first, but when I started to really get into the character's stories, my dislike for her went down and I started liking her more. Her character doesn't deserve to be thrown away.
To add about the "Chloe can't be Queen Bee anymore 'cause everyone knows her secret identity" : 1 - In Miraculer, while Marinette said she didn't had the time to tell Chloe about the "good news" (as if, Marinette) it is said that Hawkmoth could not only harm her family but also ambush Ladybug when she comes to deliver the Bee miraculous. A realistic scenario, which they could have used at their advantage to trick Hawkmoth too. And guess what ? Hawkmoth come to Chloe with an akumatized Sabrina who stole the heroes' powers but they manage to trick them to take back said powers, give Chloe the Bee miraculous and she almost catch Mayura ! Imagine how it could have turns out if the heroes actually used Hawkmoth predictable move to bait and ambush him instead... 2 - At the end of Miracle Queen, while it's not a public knowledge like for Chloe, Hawkmoth learns the identity of every temporary holder, yet they aren't replaced in season 4 but it's never pointed out in the series, even by Chloe ! It doesn't excuse Chloe bad actions but it make the end of Queen Bee's arc totally forced and Marinette, which is supposed to be the good girl, is once again portrayed as an hypocritical. What a way the close a season...
This was absolutely amazing! And I agree with almost everything you said. Just a few notes. First- So the whole protection charm thing now is outdated ever since Mega Akumas where introduced and those things could counter the charms. (I believe the episode was Mega Leech) Second- I now understand the skirt design and I love it even more now. I also like the whole spy gimmick for Queen Bee. It really brings the “Totally Spies” inspiration for Chloe’s design to a full circle. I imagine this Queen Bee working well with Rena Rouge/Furtive since the fox miraculous is built around espionage as well. Third- The point you brought up about Chloe not letting go of her behavior because of the fear of loosing her mom is something I never thought about (and I think about Chloe’s character quite a bit when it comes to character design). And now I feel even more bad for her character- Fourth- I noticed that you didn’t go that much into Chloe’s relationships with other characters (besides Marinette) or how you would develop them over time, if they develop at all, (Marinette, Adrian, Sabrina, her parents, etc.) which is something I often look for in character redesigns of Chloe. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, could you give a quick summary of this? If you don’t want to, it’s totally fine.
I imagine she's still friends with Sabrina and treats her like a lackey, and she likely has her classmates in her pocket. They admire and fear her, so they follow her around and do what she says. They know things ABOUT her, but they don't know HER, if that makes sense? I picture her as the kind of person who holds others at a distance due to her insecure attachment to her own parents.
@@callimara Makes sense. I assume that the next step would have her become more open to others and treat people like actual humans than personal servants (*coughSabrinacough*) I think what I meant to ask is would you see your version of Chloe becoming closer With Marinette or Adrian or even Alya or Nino as time goes by?
Wait what??? The magical charms aren't a thing anymore? Man this show is amazing at introducing shit for a little while and then basically completely getting rid of it.
@@47ratsinahoodie Yeah, Gabe found a workaround to them. He can create an akuma that can get through the power of the charm. Yet Marinette still hands them out even after she finds out that he can do that.
I feel like Thomas and other people in the writers team were trying to project their bitterness over girls that rejected them. Chloe is an Archetype in fiction that most incels picture when thinking about those women.
The funniest thing is astruc Isnt a incel hes a male Feminist, but he thinks Women should be perfect And never be flawed Thomas thinks women Are flawless and propably Hates chloe because she Gets in the way of his Ideology.
My only issue with her redesign is that she looks like an adult, not a middle schooler, but either way she looks far more beautiful now, great job! Also: her hat is a awesome decision to hide her comb from Hawk Moth's eyes if you were her
4:16 she shouldve been like a fashion icon with unexpected combinations that look astonishing. i cant even imagine how that would look like but it would be logical
It would perfecly go with her finding herself ! Experimenting with all those clothes, texture, colors, looking like her mother, being the total opposite, being the new trend, working with the Agrest House, feeling protected by her clothes, looking more like Adrian and doing stuff with him... Outfits can mean a lot for a character, their evolution and what happening in their life. And it's also very funny to do on the artist part!
I haven't kept up with ML in a bit so finding out that chloe has a sister AND was replaced by this sister is wild. Chloe was an actually interesting character and they really did her dirty.
My stance on Chloe as Queen Bee is that, does she want to be a superhero to help people, or get close to Ladybug? Does she actually want to be a hero, or does she like the attention she gets from being a hero? In Queen Wasp, her whole motivation for using the miraculous was to get approval from her mother, and it doesn’t seem that her motivation changes at all since then. I see Chloe as a person who is constantly seeking approval from others. From her cold, unloving mother, her busy father, her classmates, her childhood (and only) friend Adrien, and her idol Ladybug. I think that’s why she ultimately chose to side with Hawkmoth, he promised her the bee miraculous, which in her eyes was the key to getting that approval she craved. Idk, that’s just my take on the character. I really wanted to like Chloe and did until the writers absolutely nerfed any development she had.
If we are going by this logic I’d argue that the one time that she actually wanted to do something good was in LoveEater when she wanted to save her parents.
As much as I actively dislike Chloe, I do enjoy the rework you've done for her. Her look is fantastic, and the personality you described for her is basically what I already saw her as. Though as somebody who got fatigued with the show and Chloe the day she immediately revealed her identity as Queen Bee like an absolute moron, I honestly wouldn't have minded if she got the Mandy treatment and I never had to see her take part in a major plot point again after that monumentally stupid decision. If she was in a world where being a superhero was an actual job and maintaining a secret identity was a requirement of the job, that one incident alone would have gotten her fired with zero hesitation if her boss(es) did their job correctly. Also, I'm sure I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I don't really care. With what little I know of Zoe, I don't think she deserves to be written off entirely. Her backstory legitimately interests me, she could have helped Chloe's development, the fact that she apparently has a habit of switching facades around others is a really fun idea to work with, and I generally just the potential for her to be a really interesting character if in the hands of a more competent team. She definitely shouldn't have been given her the bee miraculous. Even I don't think that was a good move for her. But having her present in Chloe's life in general would have been perfectly fine to me, especially if they were rewritten to have been decently close at some point or another. Hell, it's established that there are miraculous holders in the US, so if Zoe absolutely had to have a miraculous for some reason, it would be simple to give her one of the ones in the US miracle box. (Apologies for how rambly that last section got. I just don't think the narrative potential for Zoe's character deserves to be ignored the way it often is by both viewers and the show staff. Chloe definitely was done dirty more than anybody else, but Zoe deserved to be written/treated like her own person and not just a tool to push Chloe further and further out of the plot.)
@@elinasakura I've personally been working on a chameleon miraculous for her because her whole thing of swapping personas at the drop of a hat made me think of a chameleon.
Hmm, that’s an interesting interpretation of how Zoe would be portrayed, and in my opinion, she should be leaning on the whole cousin angle like wasps are like cousins of bees.
I love how instead of making her nice as the show kept trying to say she is you made actually evil, an antagonist not someone who just causes akumas from slight insults or big ones even tho everyone hates her but you still kept her backstory to explain how she acts and made people actually like her cause she is the “popular kid” cause according to her she only has one friend ONE HOW IS SHE POPULAR?! Thank you for fixing this
Your point about marinette only wanting Yes Men around her holds up! (SPOILERS) in the current season, Adrien feels neglected because Marinette doesnt even call him for missions anymore and all gives the miraculouses to her classmates and they always do exactly what she says. He gives up his miraculous but Plagg tells him to change his appearance and be someone else. He becomes someone who says YES to everything that LB tells him to do, and now he is "too perfect" so none of the plans work. The thing is, Chat has ALWAYS said yes to everything, whats the difference now? Also, marinette gaining a crush on the fake chat noir is so disgusting to me. She only likes people who say yes to her and do everything she wants. Also the rocketear episode? Yeah, she's a massive hypocrite and the show barely does anything about it
Old comment, I know but that situation is even worse. When Chat Noir changes up his behaviour, he becomes more like his civilian self i.e. the sheltered, controlled, and isolated super model who's super polite because he has no spine. And Marinette likes that version of Cat Noir MORE than his old self. You know? Adrien's true personality?! It's why I can't believe this show when they say that Adrien and Marinette are soulmates or that she's in love with him. Time and time again, we are shown that Mari only likes the fake, artificial version of him and treats his true self like shit.
2:48 Exactly! You're right. There's something about Chloe that makes people hesitant to call her a villain. If you're not writing her like that then you haven't captured the essence of the character. Sorry, but I'm looking at you Scarlet Lady.
Callimara's Chloe looks like a rich fashion icon who wears the most expensive clothing whereas Chloe in the show looks like a 30 yo depressed single mom
You do have a point about making her a support class. All the other element miraculous could be considered support. The fox is for trickery, the turtle is the tank, the butterfly is buff, and the peacock is summons. In the main duo Ladybug is more the ranged fighter while Cat Noir is melee, though he is able to extent or throw his weapon. I do like the idea of the bee being a spy, although the bright yellow makes that a bit hard. I am on the fence about giving her flight and drones. When I saw the image I assumed the wings were for decoration. Excluding Ladybug's secondary powers, the miraculous seem to grant the same power set to everyone plus one unique power and a weapon. Granted Cat Noir was shown to have better night vision than Ladybug. Then there is the matter of the space power ups, which they use for flight and would make it seem redundant in the case of the bee. Although it could be argued that the space power up is faster, not that anyone has used a power up aside from the main duo. And if the bee could enable flight people might question why the ladybug and butterfly can't do that as well. Granted Hawk Moth spends most of his time hiding in his lair, so flight would be wasted on him. Thematically it would be fitting for the bee to allow them to deploy drones and the when Queen Bee was akumatized she normally got drones. Personally wise it seems drones would be more Max's thing. This again goes into making the bee overpowered when compared to the others, granting it a second weapon. The fox, butterfly, and peacock do all allow them to see through the eyes of what they make, since they have some idea of what is going on, even if they aren't in the room. I guess this would leave the turtle as the odd man odd if the bee could do that too. Overall I do like idea. A while back I created a character with a similar power set for my original universe. They were bee themed with flight, drones, and stun. Although I kind of came up with the drones first and built the character around them. I didn't even think of Miraculous, even though it was after I started watching it.
I agree that maybe having both the drones and flight might be a little too much. So I was considering how to make her fly without actually making her fly, and I thought, “what if her drones just carried her around?” Like, that would be kind of a power move tbh. Just imagine it, a swarm of bees arrives and part a bit to reveal Chloe just casually sitting on them. The Queen has arrived. Her subjects carry her around.
I can imagine a scene in this better Miraculous when Ladybug/Mari first gives Chloe her miraculous Chloe says "Come-on my worker bees let's go" With a pause of her flying away or something with Ladybug and Cat Noir standing their and Ladybug just goes: "I'm starting to regret my decision" and it continues for the episode with them being annoyed with each other until Mari learns how to work with her and defeat the villian.Great Video! I feel like that would be really
Let's face it, when it comes to Marinette/Ladybug, Austruc is like one of those toxic stage moms who can't stand seeing his "baby" be outshone by anyone so he sabotages the competition whenever he can so they can "win". Also if you want to read a great redemption arc fanfic for Chloe I'd highly recommend "Chloe and the Bee" by anxresi.
Even though they ruined chloe's character i still love her and is still ny favorite character ( also im a new sub and im enjoying your content so far 😊 )
I feel like if Miraculous was rewritten in Cali's image, Zoe should be included, but only as Chloe's literary foil, the blue to her red if you will I don't mean that as a "evil twin meant to villianized the other" manner either, I mean in the way that prompts and encourages the characters to grow and better themselves in a way they latter is and they are not For example, Zoe, as per the description given, is nice. She is empathetic, sweet and a good friend, meanwhile Chloe is shown to be maicious, nasty and a horrible companion In Cali's version, she could have Zoe be a push over, and a social doormat who is utterly miserable with how nice she is. Have her feel guilty and be a people pleaser to her own detriment, have her sit quietly by choice when no one is around with a deep frown and a sorrowful gaze. And have Chloe stay a hard ass, someone who won't take no for an answer and is miserable from it. But also have Chloe be pushed to the side when a social gathering happens with outside sources, maybe a party from outside of Paris where her status means nothing, and her meanness meant everything. Have Chloe watch in enraged silence as Marinette is picked over her, and when she demands to know why have it slowly grow in desperation and guilt, until it's hurtful, throat scratching and heart breaking to watch And have a climatic moment between Zoe and Chloe, maybe an explosive argument or a tearful statement made with seething anger in the air. Have them finally confess their miserable states to each other, have them compare stories, have them understand, and have them walk away better than before Have them walk in hating each other and have them walk out loving each other, first as friends, then finally, finally as family
ayyy, the designs are lovely mate, I like that you didn't just try and make her nice but misunderstood as so many people try in rewrites, yes she is misunderstood but she is snarky not nice, she's my favourite character because of her potential and the way you've done this is is very on point
Chloe is my favorite character in the series and I really adore her and sympathize with her. And even though she can be mean for no reason sometimes, I know she's just a girl and still has room to grow. There's actually a line from the Heathers musical of the song 'Prom or Hell'. And one of the lyrics is "They were just seventeen, they still had room to grow, they could have turned out good, but now we'll never know".
@@DuskPShermanWallaby123 Considering I’ve heard “Meant to be Yours” before I think I know the answer. Jeez, he really did turn his school into Vietnam.
"The show treats [Chloe] the same way her mom does." "[wasps being parasitic] is the perfect representation of Zoe's existence..." shots fired XD (and I 100% agree). Chloe isn't my favorite character, but I loved the arc the non-Astruc writers tried to give her. Every time I see someone resist Hawkmoth now, I mentally say "just remember, Chloe did it first."
I absolutely LOVE her canon hero costume. To me it’s by far one of the most aesthetically pleasing, yet her character is the embodiment of absolute disappointment. She had so much potential to be a great character, yet they, specifically Thomas, decided that she’s irredeemable, and I don’t like the message that sends to children.
I've been thinking about doing my own rewrite-ish thing of MLB, and this gave me an idea for a Chloe redemption arc-- a redemption arc that gives Zoe Lee use that isn't replacing Chloe! I thought of the song (don't remember then name) that says "if you love her let her go" or something along the lines of that, and it popped into my head that Zoe (for once not Marinette cuz she's annoying asf) could be introduced when Chloe's mom is on screen because she's coming for a fashion show for 2-3 week. Zoe sees that fashion mom treats Chloe badly (Fashion Mom isn't in Zoe's life at all, and I reckon her dad'd be a good person for this concept, hence why she's a good person) and talks to Chloe about it. Of course, Chloe would deny this, but over time I'd try to build up Chloe breaking down because fashion mom would be constantly talking crap about her, criticizing everything she does, basically everything she does in the main show just... More? Later on Zoe could walk in on Chloe crying and just as usual, offers to talk about it, and unlike the times before, Chloe's just so upset (and fashion mom would be out) and just tell her about her longstanding problems with her family. Zoe could tell her that fashion mom isn't a good person or someone to idolize, she should talk about these issues to her dad because they CLEARLY aren't working out and tells her she should let her mom go. Chloe could get mad for an episode and storm off crying or something, but eventually thinks about it before taking Zoe's advice, talking to her dad and FINALLY letting go of her mom- it would be a long process the viewers would regularly get updates on (most likely from Zoe, since I feel Chloe would take some time off to just let it all out and calm herself down), and by the end of the arc she'd have a different style than before, and would probably walk in with Zoe, talk to ginger girl who's name idk and they could become friends again (I'd have an arc for ginger girl where she drops Chloe as a friend after gaining more confidence because Marinette or someone shows her how bad Chloe is for her mentally). And by the end, I'd also plan for Marinette and Chloe to NOT become friends, but simply have Chloe apologise for her past bullying and promise to try to make up to it, also saying she understands if Marinette doesn't accept her apology. Marinette would accept the apology but they'd simply leave it on neutral terms, Chloe would give up being class prez and hand it over to Mari, move on to next arc. I know there's a lot of holes but I plan on updating this idea when I get around to it, because I simply thought of a villain route as well but I rlly don't wanna do that, it just seems so meaningless and I want a PURPOSE FOR LILAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@@Angie_lol also MAKE HER MORE FLICKIN REALISTIC MAN ON THE SHOW PEOPLE LITERALLY BELIEVE THE DUMBEST LIES WHEN SHE AROUND THATS NOT HOW MANIPULATION WORKS- (and a proper backstory/arc for my waifu uwu)
I can imagine Cloe using her organization skills to structure a plan for every mission, like when to attack and what to use or do, or just tactics in general. Like it doesn't have to be a really good plan (sun Tzu) but like a working plan, and when it worked the first time and she got praise from the whole team it would be cute to find out that she tried hard to learn actual strategies in combat afterwards. But she wouldn't admit it though. And maybe as a bonus if it doesn't go as plan, aka someone doing smth different she would totally freak out and maybe as a part of character development that she would later learn to be more patient or more flexible in unexpected situations as it always can happen and crying about things would not solve problems. It's also a good massage I think. I think it would be a cool conflict to see that Cloe is struggling deciding which person to idolize. As she idolize her mother and lady bug, but they're both different characters, which make their ideology clash onto each other. It would maybe make the redemption arc more fitting as her whole I'm a bully persona is based on her mother. She could overcome her obsession to please her and become her own person. It would be cool to see
Chloe reminds me so much of Diamond Tiara from MLP. A spoiled rich kid, the bully at school, and trying to idolize her parents or seek their approval. There's a whole song of Diamond Tiara's relationship towards her parents and how she struggles with her reputation. Diamond Tiara was very unlikable whenever she was on screen during the first few seasons, but then she slowly revealed herself to be an insecure little girl all while living in a lavish lifestyle, trying to live up to her expectations towards her parents and peers, and being unlikable to earn a form of approval and recognition.
I just realize something has anyone else realize that in kuro neko cat noir/adrien was able to change his super hero design if he change his persona as a hero and same thing with rena rouge ( since hawk moth knows who she is ) but chloe cant!? She could just be like adrien she can change her persona as a hero still the same mean girl as a regular person but different as a hero like thats makes marinette alot more hypocritical!!!
Everything I hear about Chloe makes me think of Helga, from Hey Arnold! Even as a kid, I never really hated Helga, because, while she was a bully, she wasn't really hated by everyone in her class; none of them had any problem talking back to her and she could be kind in her own way (the Christmas special.) On top of that, she would always be included in whatever her class had going on (sports, parties, etc.) And, while her nasty attitude would make everyone wary of her, if she expressed interest in joining in on their activities, the group would allow her to join. It probably helps that the writers of Hey Arnold! had no problem focusing on characters other than Arnold and Helga's episodes show that she lashes out because she doesn't have the best home life, with her parents being more appreciative of her perfect older sister, to the point that she had to walk herself to preschool on the first day. I just rambled a lot about a show I haven't seen in years, but the point I'm trying to make is that Chloe could have been a modern-day Helga Pataki; a pretty, popular girl, who is also a spoiled, cruel bully. Not that she's not capable of being nice, but, if you aren't Adrien or Sabrina (or Ladybug,) why would she be nice to you? And her showing kindness or support to Ladybug (likely in private, she has a reputation, you know) would really throw Marinette off, because Chloe being nice? Does not compute.
This is one show where I actually wouldn't mind seeing a reboot lmao. Some reboots can be really good. This whole show is such a missed opportunity. At least there's fan fiction. *Gives Dramatic Sigh*
Chloe just mainly exists to make Marinett look better which is sad, cause the need to put others down to make your maincharacter look better is just a proof that your maincharacter in itself is lackluster as f. Zoe is redundant and seems like a last minute implementation. I love your Chloe design! It's great. It's fashionable. And I loved Winx Club and Totally Spies. Chloe isn't my favorite character, but she is the definitely the most layered one.
If Chloe does become the next big bad I actually wouldn’t be mad. You literally stated the way she’s treated is like a villains origin story so honestly why not.
Actually, Zoe could be a cool concept for a villainous character of sorts or smth along those lines. Though, with Lila's existence/nonexistence (because the writers don't seem to know if she should stay or not??) it might end up the same as her. But I do kinda like the wasp variation because of the way it's built, in which wasps are parasitic compared to the more docile and helpful bees. Idk just a thought
Chloe was long over due for a redesign and this is utterly amazing! Chloe is not my favourite character but she is certainly in my top 3. That transformation sequence was also outstanding, great job Pimika!
I actually relate to Chloe a lot, my parents got divorced when I was 3 and even though I do live with my mom, my dad still... "tries" to keep in touch with me, and I ended up turning out a lot like my mom, even if I don't really like the way my mom is sometimes, I can't really help but notice how sometimes, I'm just like her.
Honestly I feel as if Zoe can be useful in this storyline you coming up with, and look I know Zoe had no real point of existing but there is a very unique direction to expand on Chloe's character. Really imagine if her mother favorite Zoe for whatever reason. If she constantly put the two of them against each other saying things like "oh my Zoe is SO smart, I just know she'll get the high score on the test. Chloe? Oh she won't do good enough" little things like that constantly. Referring this idea in Chloe's head that she isn't good enough and building on her need to please her mother but not just her mother also Zoe because really if Chloe wanted to get on her mother's good side, pleasing her favorite child would help. Keep in mind this is all through mentions and pieces of video calls. We don't meet her in person until season 4 and, let's say, by that point Chole has either left, or sadly more realistically, abandoned by her mother after she refuses to leave a fight in order to plan her mother's party. Now Chloe is abandoned, only having her sister. Zoe however, inherited her mother's nature and isn't the piece of cardboard she's in the show. She's manipulative and uses Chole, an interesting episode would be of Zoe found out Chloe was a miraculous holder and Zoe DEMANDED to have it. After like, a day she gives it back because she really wanted the attention that came with being a miraculous holder and the whole Superhero fighting was a no for her. Of course she adds some manipulation like "I was just testing you" BS however from that point on she demands that Chloe stop whatever she's doing and use her miraculous to do things like take Zoe to the mall or show off to her friends. And if Chloe said no Zoe would begin manipulating her. What if one day after Chole said no Zoe said "YOU'RE LEAVING ME BEHIND! YOU'RE JUST LIKE MOM!" Chloe, devastated and hurt runs away. That combined with how Marinette was treating her as a tool to call upon in season 4 built sentiment in Chloe, she had sacrificed everything, risked her life, and it wasn't enough? This was the change in her character from now on she wasn't fighting for Paris, she wasn't fighting for ladybug, she wasn't fighting for hawk moth. Queen bee was going solo! And Chloe was pushing herself harder than ever before. Because if she wasn't good enough, then she had to work overtime to prove she was worth something. To prove that she was needed. She poured all her time and energy into defending Paris because without their love and support what else do she have? Without that conditional "love" they gave her she had no one. She begins a spiral, pushing herself harder and harder to the point where she starts neglecting her own health, taking every risk and going to every extreme. Maybe Aiden can be the one to help her leave her spiral because he relates to her, or maybe one of the people that haven't been redesigned can help her. I don't know either way I love your videos and I'm really excited to see the next one! You inspire me so much :)
Chloe with her hair down makes my heart go- 🪟 `` ❤️ Also, haven't watched the whole video yet but every point you've said about her not being so fashionable in the show is so true
WOW. I can not find my words to tell you how good that design is. First you made Chloe more fashionable and I like that, second you made her more an antagostis and I love that third that queen bee redesign as a character role and suits are fabulous. This all consept of working bees and spy remind me of a very old fanfiction that I write a long time ago when the miraculous box was introduce and the bee miraculous was not used. Overall this is just perfect and Chloe deserve this perfection.
*Fun(lmao not really) Fact:* Thomas has stated Chloe is based on his childhood bully. Also there was a while in the season 2 when Thomas wasn't working on the show and when he came back he saw the character development the other writers have kind of set up for Chloe and he decided to obviously ruin the best written character because "BULLIES CAN'T CHANGE A 14 YO IS NEVER GOING TO BE REDEEMABLE!!". istg this dude is a man-child.. In conclusion, this is why we in the Miraculous fandom can't have nice things.
I think that Chloe being a event organizer and the Mari bday thing you said made me get an ideia for the start of her redemption arc Chloe's having a party, but it's at the same day as birthday of one of her classmates, she doesn't really know it's their bday so whatever In the middle of the party someone slips off that it was that persons bday and she sees that everybody in her class is in HER party, not theirs, and maybe a tiny flashback about Chloe remembering that the person was kinda upset when she invited them (maybe she screamed with that person for making an angry face when receiving the invitation and disinvited them too) This could trigger her because since her mother never cared remember her birthdays, or use them to do some big event focused on herself and get contracts instead of caring about Chloe Chloe makes her party became that persons bday party and maybe even buys a cake at the last minute, the person is happy but some random people do little jokes on Chloe because of her "Out of character" attitude, this makes her mad, she doesn't ruin the party for it but makes a little scene and goes to her room, she's upset because of her ego destroyed but is kinda happy because she prevent someone to feel "small" in their on bday
Can we just talk about how Jagged Stone, a grown ass man who'd abandoned his wife and kids just so he could be rich and famous, got redeemed, but CHLOE, a teenage girl who neglected by her mom HASN'T??
I KNOW RIGHT? I guess dads who abandoned his family can be redeemed but not kids who are bad because their parents neglected and abused them 😩 Thomas really should have leave to buy milk
Blame Thomas
This is called ✨Thomas Asstruc✨
@@whateverimtired1578 HAHA 💀
@@whateverimtired1578 Astrainwreck (the family friendly ver)
It would be really cute if Chloe named all of her many Worker Bees, and got upset when someone called one of them by the wrong name. It’d add a layer to her character as her mom would frequently forget her name and I would imagine that would really stick with her.
Yes! Love this ❤
Chloe would definitely pamper her baby bees
THATS SO SMART OMG
OMG I WANNA SEE THIS NOW 😭 BRO’S OUT HERE WRITING BETTER THAN THOMAS ASTRUC (Not that hard,but still, put this man on the miraculous ladybug writing team)
Such a nice idea!
Regular Chloe: An organizer..
Queen bee: A superspy who orchestrates the villain's downfall.
Oh my gosh that just works.
Ikr?! Like- 🤯
Can you guys imagine if Zuko never got his redemption arc because the show creators also thought he was “too mean”? Thomas should’ve taken notes
Or if Dana Terrace never redeemed Amity because she was “so so mean” to Willow and Luz?
Or if Catra from She-Ra was never redeemed, because "she was mean to Adora", completely disregarding the years of abuse from Shadow Weaver that would make her act the way she did? Even better, make that abuse into a haha funny moment? Yeah.
@@irisoftheeye ugh,can you imagine how bad that would look? Like,”Hey,here’s a character that was abused both mentally and physically! Guess what? She’s not getting redemption! You know who will get redeemed? Their abuser! Catra was just too mean for her to be redeemed!”
Thomas definitely has not watched Atla
Or if Starlight Glimmer never got to be apart of the main six because she was “too mean”
"Queen Bee" is SUCH an easy opening to go for a super fancy, regal look for her hero costume, but ofc Thomas couldn't do it, why would he
amongus
Thomas does not have the refined, artistic taste or style when it comes to designing and creating character development for the show.
She'd fit in at a masquerade ball!
Chloe is a teen girl written by a man who hates teen girls
Funfact: if your character has a bee theme to it. I will instantly love it.
Same goed for hats. I love big hats
he’s just some bootie hurt man child loser who based her character off his childhood bully and because of that her character will get no arc
God, big hats are love, big hats are life.
Same goes for bees. So cute!
@@js66613 sweet little bumblebee
thoughts on vesperia? (you said you love bees and i got very curious there. and yes bees are awesome and scary)
I think there's something about her/her personality being based on a girl who bullied him or something when he was still in school, if that's true, imagine holding a grudge that strong that you make a character to trash on (a character that doesn't deserve it too). How childish, smh.
I absolutely adored Chloe, really pissed me off that she lost the Bee because she was manipulated but Nino gets to keep the turtle despite revealing Adrien's identity because he was jealous
Edit: Nino revealed his and Alya's identities TO Adrian.
The hypocrisyyyy
@@callimara (spoilers I supposed) whats even more hypocrite is Ladybug saying everyone should keep their identities secret but told Alya she's Ladybug. And how Ladybug let Kagami keep her Miraculous even when Kagami identity was known, same with other heroes but Ladybug allowed them to keep it expect Chloe. Ladybug is a hypocrite 🙄
The show: “Every girl can be a hero!”
Except Chloe, apparently.
I swear so many people deserve to lose their miraculous WHY DO THEY STILL HAVE THEIR MIRACULOUS AFTER MIRACLE QUEEN ANYWAY?!
@@SCREW_TITLES Because plot reasons.
Chloe loving being Queen Bee shows a lot about her. She is, at her core, a good person. She wants to help people. She wants to do good things. That alone should make her redeemable. She can unlearn her bad behavior because she clearly wants to be a good person
Eh, I wouldn't say *alll that* .
I think it mostly has to do with the fact that she wanted to have a purpose in this world, and the only purpose that she had was being a daddy's girl and flexing all his money to her other classmates. Becoming queen bee gave her an actual purpose, and I think that could hone down a much better message in the show then "mean people don't change because they're mean1!!11!1!!" Because Thomas... you're literally telling little kids who are probably like chloe irl to not change. And I don't think any of us want that. But hey, that's just my take.
Yeah,I saw it the same way.It makes sense she feels as if she can only feel like a good person by being Queen Bee seeing how the class treats her like she can never change
This could’ve been S2 Chloé. But Thomas happened.
It’s a side of her that invites cooperation. Though I’d ask if the Chloe herself sees Queen Bee and Chloe Bourgeois as two different people on some level. She’s self aware to know that everyone hates her and describes herself as useless. One of two ways I can see this manifest is her seeing the bee miraculous as the *only* thing giving her value and the only way she can redeem herself. The other way is her separating her regular self from Queen Bee in her head and wants to spend as little time being Chloe Bourgeois as possible.
If we had to work with Miracle Queen the why not have her be more angry and heartbroken at loosing the bee miraculous? In season four have her be less angry and annoyed and have her be more melancholic. Have her really act a lot less extreme and try to push others away because in her own eyes she sees herself as irredeemable.
This would be compounded by Zoe’s arrival as instead of protesting Zoe’s acceptance she’d slink into the background making off handed remarks here or there.
*[taps on microphone, leans in]* Chloé could have been as complex and beloved a character as Prince Zuko from ATLA if Astruc wasn't a petty coward only capable of writing two dimensional characters to fulfil some weird self-insert revenge fantasy, thanks for coming to my TedTalk (and thanks to Callimara for doing yet another amazing redesign to soothe my bitter little heart over this writhing mass of wasted potential)
THIIIIIISSSSSSS. I honestly haven't even bothered to watch season 4 because of how angered and frustrated I was at season 3 ending. Plus when I read up on the shit going ON in season 4 it makes me even more frustrated to the point that I currently don't really care about the show right now. Only thing I care about are redesigns/discusses about the writing/characters and the loss of potential
@@ChaoticNalilitoMC Believe me, they make her needlessly bad
*ahem* Sir/Ma'am/Honorable furry
I believe you dropped these 🎤 👑 💎 ✨
@@ChaoticNalilitoMC Yeah, I personally stopped watching around midway through Season 3, when the cracks really started showing with the Adrien-Marinette dynamic. I had a horrible premonition and backed away slowly- and then I heard about the season finale. I've never been more annoyed about being right.
I just- really love a complex character (and I enjoy female characters who are just allowed to be abrasive), and Chloé could have sent such a powerful, nuanced message to the target audience: if someone acts this way to you, you don't have to tolerate or excuse their meanness, but be aware that they're also human; and if you're acting this way, you can always be better, even if that process is messy and you fall back into bad habits sometimes- it matters that you try.
I was looking forward to Chloé being the semi-harmlessly bitchy, sometimes awkwardly kind, rival-turned-friend to Marinette that I saw popping up in fanfic. But then Astruc took back over and *is why we can't have nice things.*
@@GMisEpicYuh asdfghj why, thank you, my good Sir/Ma'am/Honourable furry, this is the best response I've ever gotten to a comment and just made my day (it'd be ma'am, btw! Thanks for the pronoun choices- and seriously, thank you, this made me laugh and also really proud)
Fun fact, Thomas is so fixated in making Chloe mean because she is literally based off on a bully he had during grade school, this is why she behaves like a literal spoiled 10 years old child.
Also, a similar thing happens with Marinette, being Thomas so biased in her favor because she is literally his own fanchild, he confessed she is what he wished his and his ex's daughter could look like if they had a child, being the reason why Mari's parents are called Tom and Sabinne as the ex's name is literally Sabinne and is chinese as well
That is disturbing in a number of ways.
Oh damn I didn't know Marinette was also dragged into that weirdness- All his protectiveness of her character and attacking anyone who dislikes her suddenly makes sense...I mean, nothing about this really makes sense but now I know where that came from. Creepy.
I. Uh... Hm. That’s, uh... that’s quite the grudge there. I mean- I was bullied in grade school too, but I never made a character to drag said bully, and I’m under half of Thomas’ age. Wtf?
Also I feel bad for Thomas' ex, that must feel weird having a guy you used to date make an entire *show* surrounding a child you don't and never did have. That's a whole other level of obsessiveness. Now I know why Thomas thinks Mari's actions toward Adrien are okay.
Wtaf eughh
Honestly, the fact that they not only replaced Chloé but did so with her own _sister_ is such a slap in the face. I have sisters. It fucking _hurts_ when it feels like people like your sisters more than they like you after knowing them for less time, and when your sisters can do your thing so much more easily and better than you can when it's the one thing that you work so hard to get better at and make your own. I dislike that they're replacing Chloé, but I absolutely _hate_ that they made her replacement her sister.
*EDIT:* Just want to say that I'm not here to dog-pile on Zoé. I don't even know her well enough to hate her - or to feel anything about her, for that matter. I only hate what she represents and how she's narratively being used.
I feel this. My sister is way better at drawing than I am, she draws anime and I draw more cartoon like styles. I feel so shit whenever I see her art because I know she can draw better than I can and it sucks.
Same
A sister who literally showed up out of nowhere, no foreshadowing whatsoever, and automatically has Marinette's approval and a nice personality that doesn't shake up the dynamics in any way. Zoe is so obviously nothing more than a bee miraculous replacement that it's kinda...basic.
I know! Ok, I’m of the unpopular opinion that they could’ve stuck with Chloe losing her powers. That could’ve been used to give her a wake up call and make her realise what she’s doing is wrong. But if you’re going to choose anyone to be the new Bee... why not Sabrina? While Chloe had the ferocity and temper of a bee, Sabrina has the attitude of one. Hardworking, loyal, can be really sweet... I’m just saying, that could’ve worked instead of introducing an entirely new character for that one purpose.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios that actually would’ve been fun! It’d also give Sabrina development and something to do as a character besides being Chloe’s milquetoast simp
I love how every fan hero design just looks better and closer to the animal it’s representing than the designs in the show. Don’t get me wrong, there are designs that I love, but the fan designs just hit different
Yesss
Facts
It just shows how talented the fans are
@@anxiouskitty1412 they should really make their own story so I can consume it😍
@@sparkletoes7297 yep
I felt so disappointed when I saw how the show treated Chloe. She had potential, truly. I’ve never understood why they began to give her a redemption arc and suddenly just threw it out the window. What message are they trying to give to the younger audience? That one can never change and become better? There are so many storylines that she could have been included in as her backstory is so much more interesting than the main protagonist’s one! They could have used her as the mean girl in the first seasons and slowly added details that hinted to her background and family abuse to make the audience actually understand her actions and why not , even start sympathizing with her. Perhaps after she changes and tries to become a better person she could help Marinette pursue Adrien as it is mentioned that she was his only friend growing up and must know him better than anyone (similarly to how Kagami now helps Marinette) . Not only would it be an interesting plot but it would also cement this new and better version of Chloe . I adored your designs and concept of Chloe and Queen Bee, not only are they more visually appealing but they also reflect the character more clearly. I would love to see your approach on Alya or Luka❤️❤️❤️❤️
@Can'tthinkofaname Totally agree… at this point she is the perfect example of a Mary Sue
The reason they began to start an redemption arch and then scrap it is because when the redemption arch episodes were being created. (The insight into her family life and explanation towards her behavior) Thomas wasn’t around for the production of those episodes. (Thomas Astruc the creator of miraculous hates Chloe to her core) So when he came back they ruined any chance of redemption with season 3 finale Miracle Queen.
@@psychotictrash2384 I wasn’t aware of that. I knew Thomas was not a fan of Chloe ( I saw his comments on Twitter addressing Chloe and they were …intense) . Still, they should have continued what they started rather than change direction completely. On the other hand it’s Miraculous we are talking about, it’s not like continuity and logic is the creators’ priority 🤣
I agree but it isn’t your storyline, also Chloe might end up changing and help Marinette we haven’t seen season 5,6,7 so there is still time
@@isabellajanevska9249 It was just an idea I had in mind haha. I still have some hope for future seasons but with Thomas hating Chloe so much…I really don’t know . All we can do is wait and hope for the best. (fingers crossed 🤞🏻)
Chloe could've been the Tony Stark of the Miraculous universe, where everyone knows it's her and she still retains her powers
Exactly,she could’ve easily been just like Tony Stark,especially with her redemption arc
…I never thought of her like that and now I’m sad that she isn’t. What a fantastic idea
That would've been amazing because Tony Stark is my comfort character I wish that happened
i was thinking about this tbh it would've been rlly funny 😂
Ok I actually love that idea. Everyone just- knows and kinda goes along with it lol.
I wanted to lay out my idea on how to implement her sister, Zoe without making her unnecessary. I HATED Zoe but I feel like the Chloe's sister arc could be a great arc if done correctly.
I imagine that instead of a Miraculous holder, she could be a minor character in one or two episodes. She would be an older sister, the former talented favorite of Audrey before she suddenly cuts off from her family and runs from Paris to become an indie actress. To Chloe, Zoe was the perfect daughter who had everything she had wanted, her mother's approval, great talents, etc. but stupidly threw it away. Maybe she meets her in New York or Zoe came to visit Paris to reconcile with Chloe or smth. They would have a feud at first but Zoe may help Chloe's character arc when she explains why she left, that she was tired of their parents and their expectations on her and wanted to explore her own potential. Through her, I can also imagine Chloe slowly learning she did not need the approval of her mother and that she can be her own person.
I *love* that idea. A while back I had spent a lot of time reading fanfics with estranged siblings reconciling. They’re really nice and this concept sorta reminds me of that. That’d be really fun to see.
I literally love that idea. Chloe's naive and stubborn brattyness could play off Zoe's stoic and mature oldness really well. It reminds me of Weiss and Winter Schnee from RWBY lol
You know what that was exactly what I was thinking instead of having a nice charecter replacing her ws could've a kind charecter helping her!
I honestly like the idea of Zoe and from what I've seen of her don't mind her design all too much. Making her the replacement for Chloe really isn't doing either of them favours. I like your idea.
SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE AN AU OF THIS
Also the estranged sister plot with the former golden child becoming the black sheep and leaving behind a younger sibling kinda reminds me of Sera and Leilah from the Webtoon Unordinary-
I imagined that Chloe's mother once expressed that she liked Ladybug, whether it be in an interview, a design she made or even just saying something like "Why can't you be more like Ladybug?" and that's why Chloe wants to be like Ladybug
omg
Clever
Wasn’t it why can’t you be more like marinette if I’m not mistaken but good point tho
@@sylviac02 I mean before that, like when Ladybug appeared Chloe began to express some kind of love or admiration to her either cos she was popular or cos she just liked how she was in general
I also think Chloe could admire how bossy and controlling Ladybug is and see a little bit of that in her mother so that could be another reason
@@ckaiy5250 Well, Ladybug saved her life in the origins episode when she was about to fall. I think Chloé's admiration comes from this episode and not because of her mother.
Chloe is my favorite character because she was nuanced. She was mean but had a character but Thomas ruined it in Season 3 and 4. I don't care if she's still mean honestly, it's just that they ruin her nuance in her writing that upsets me. In Season 2, she did have a fun relationship with Sabrina and her dad. In Anti bug we see Chloe playing with Sabrina but in Season 4 she now a monster for no reason honestly and it pisses me off knowing she could be written better, either a hero or a villian but no, let's just keep her and torment her for no reason. And Thomas also doesn't care about her abuse she's under and act like she isn't being abuse whatsoever when it's clear she is.
Atp i honestly think that the makers purposely ruined her entire character since people were liking Chloe more than Marinette who they were trying so hard to make 'relatable' and 'quirky' 💀
I loved the fact that whenever she and Sabrina hung out privately... They played pretend. It was the cutest thing I ever did saw. But now they've turned her into a caricature that locks Sabrina in closets. It's depressing.
Thomas said in his twitter hes comparing people who are in abusive relationship are comparing them to chloe also i heard he even said the chloe fans made chloe suffer from neglectfull parents and said we made that and that wasnt abuse they may not be phcsically abusive but mentally for sure
@@thatot7trash That has been done on other shows before. They want to make the MC the best, but rather than making them better they make everyone else worse so they look better by comparison. They said that Marinette is the smartest character on the show, but that speaks more about everyone else than it does her.
@@cryforhelp7270 that part made me go AWW so hard I even want to make an au based on their friendship cuz it's overlooked like it stared out as a healthy relationship but turned sour as Chole became meaner and distant but always came back for Sabrina whether it was just to use her to do homework for her or just needs validation. Eventually Sabrina realizes that her relationship with Chloe is toxic and might try to break off the friendship passively but then Chloe has a meltdown seeing that her closest friend is trying to leave her,Sabrina feels bad so she stays a lil longer, then the queen bee and Zoe sister arc(which happen at the same time- Zoe should have been introduced with Audrey itade no sense how it happened canonically) Chloe learns to love herself but she also feels horrible for how she treated Sabrina, meanwhile Sabrina is gaining confidence maybe she became friends with Alix and Max (or Mari but it would make more sense with those two because they are nerds)
So the next time Sabrina decides 5o stand up to Chloe and say she wants to break up the friendship Chloe is more accepting to Sabrina's suprise. Maybe they might become friends again later bu
With this redesign Chloe legit went from "annoying girl that feels like a waste of screen time" to "hot mean girl I want to beg to step on me" and I'm HERE FOR IT
Chill 😂 like she's still a kid
@@chocolattefeverdreams4228 I knowww :'))))
That's the 1 issue I have with feeling that way xDD
FBI
"Have a seat over here"
"I'm Chris Hansen with date line NBC"
This is a joke btw
@@wiwitutsu2175 I can explain--
I love chloe so much even though the writer has ruined her, I even took the time to write an episode on how the writers can fix her, my girl needs therapy😭
Honey. EVEYBODY in this show needs therapy...
@Marinette I mean yeah. you can't possible look at Marinette anymore and think she's okay, for example. Or look at Adrien and act like he's been given the support he needs to just...be a teenager.
@Marinette no. She is meant to be a normal girl??? It literally says in the intro. She wasn't written to be a yandere, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. Thomas thinks of Marinette like she's his daughter. She's WRITTEN to be a nice, likeable, and helpful protagonist. It fails.
@Marinette Cite your sources then. Because unless you can't read, or hear, it's literally in the theme song that Marinette is "just a normal girl with a normal life." She's not supposed to be an obsessive yandere.
@Marinette Learn how to read please.
I like Chloe's character and I found very insulting that the writers are desperately trying to make us hate Chloe by adding a boring character like Zoe, which is the definition of a "nice girl", but what I found more infuriating is that, if they wanted a supervillain girl who constantly sabotage Marinette's life they already had Lila, which is a far better choice as a villain than Chloe, and even if Lila isn't perfecly written, she is at least a more effective and rational alternative. So with Chloe's regression they are making Lila's inclusion completely useless.
Anyway, I love your Chloe's redesign and rewrite.
Because honestly, Lila is a threat. Like Callimara said, Chloe isn't a threat to Marinette since the class all hates Chloe and loves Marinette and even Adrien is getting more and more annoyed by Chloe but with Lila, she has the class wrapped around her finger and is able to turn to tides on Marinette and make people believe she's being irrationally jealous causing conflict.
Two mean girls is one too many
when i was in 7th grade we actually voted for the mean girl we didnt like to be school and class president so she had a lot of duties and didnt bother us
Lmao good idea
Ooh big brain
Smart-
Outstanding move
Ahhh smart!
The reason Chloe wasn't redeemed wasn't because the showrunners didn't want her to be redeemed but because Thomas didn't want Chloe to be redeemed.
He has a sort of hate for her and just wants her to be that one bully in the class, although it seems that now she's gonna work with lila to go against Marinette and possibly ladybug.
Throughout the running of the show there was a point in time where Thomas wasn't on the director position at the time and so the show was ran by the other directors and writers thus causing Chloe to start improving and then suddenly loosing all her progress as a character.
Thomas then returned in Miracle Queen when she betrays ladybug and gets kicked off the superhero team.
Thomas' absence and return sounds like a story of a villian 😂
this is why you should never base characters off real life people. you let your feeling get in the way, which results in the plot not being organic
Yeah, wasn't Chloe based on a person who used to bully Thomas when he was younger?
@@animeguy10000000 Yep, it's said he confirmed this in a possibly deleted tweet.
@@meaningfulwaters1085 Talk about being petty.
imagine this: as she flies her fuzz leaves a trace of golden dust like pollen
GORGEOUS DESIGN
yes. just yes.
and if I lived in a world where your idea and Callimara’s concepts were real, I would cry like I just saw the face of God if I saw some kind of random golden dust in front of my window, assuming it’s the icon called Queen Bee.
Let's just hope that no one can track her through that trace of golden dust.
Honestly considering she is supposedly one of the main reasons people get Akumatised, it would have made way more sense for Ladybug to WANT Chloé to be redeemed. If she starts acting nicer, less people get negative feelings from her actions so less opportunities fkr Akumatizations to happen. The fact she only doesn't get redeemed because of Thomas Astruck's pettiness is just sad when everything else points to her redemption working really well
That always bugged me. You’d think that Ladybug would want to have as many factors that relate to akumatizations be removed as possible. But Marinette legit never thinks about that because of her negative bias towards Chloe (feel free to replace Marinette’s name with Astruc-)
@@redballoon9007 "In the daytime, I'm Thomas Astruc. Just a shitty show creator with a burning hatred for good writing."
"But, there's something about me that no one knows yet...."
"Cause I have a secret...."
"I made a show, that's full of shit."
"I tweet and my reputation takes a hit."
"When fanfics come, I find a way,"
"To put down the writers and ruin their day"
"Oh-oh-oh"
"My show's gone off the fucking rails."
"Oh-oh-oh"
"But somehow it's not dropping sales."
"Oh-oh-oh"
"And when the episodes air,"
"That's when I have written....."
"Miraculous! Simply the worst!"
"My writing's why this show is so wrong!"
"Miraculous! makes your head burst!"
"The power of wasted ideas so strong!"
@@yuumakadiri1513 dude this is so good and so accurate 👍🤣
@@yuumakadiri1513 someone need to sing this lol! Like legit right now
@@kmmk5022 I would. But the cursing-
I really like how in the first two designs you made the kwamis a bigger part in the character development as well with Tikki being a stricter guiding hand for a messy Marinette and Plagg being a laid back mentor for a stiff Adrien. That's why I think Pollen could be used in the writing as a sort of "new mom" for chloe. She needs someone to look up to and learn from that isnt her doormat of a father or her toxic mother. Pollen could treat her like a queen but also be motherly by telling chloe straight up what isnt okay to do. I think it would be interesting for this little Bee Kwami to be the thing that Chloe needs to realize she can be powerful and strong for herself and not for her mothers approval, but also I feel like she wouldnt appreciate the idea of being told what's okay to do by a kwami so that could be something to play into to. All around, I love queen bee and the new redesign! ❤❤❤
This!!!!
This is so heckin cute 🥺
Why aren’t you on the writing team
This is literally so wholesome🥰
THE HURT/COMFORT POTENTIAL
This is such a great idea. One thing that's common about Chloe among the other teammembers is distrust, and there could be a 'boy cries wolf' situation, where because of her past misdeeds, the others leave her behind and don't listen to her even if she's actually trying to be a better person and holds good information (akin to the worker bee aspect), and BAM, Pollen becomes the most motherly and impactful she's ever been to Chloe as a character, and this could be a critical part to her redemption arc.
Thomas says Chloe's purpose is to be a character that represents people who have opportunities but can't change, which is a very realistic concept, but is this concept applicable to a 14 year old girl with a broken family and bad influences? I guess it's kind of hard to say she can't change even though she's so young, besides saying that she has opportunities even though her mother is a very bad influence and now lives in the same roof as her, her father doesn't usually have the authority to teach her well and her sister has good intentions but i don't know if she will have screen time to show that she is trying to help Chloe...
Yeah, it very much feels like he is blaming Chloe for getting the short-end of the parenting stick. Marinette while nowhere as rich as her has two parents who genuinely love her. Chloe meanwhile has a mother who only cares about herself, and a father who is willing to bend over for her. She would need to be out of her home situation and be getting therapy to overcome the neglect from her mom. She can't change currently, because she lacks any positive influences...not that she is stuck in her ways. In fact, she started changing the moment she had a miraculous, her first positive influence. That alone shows she has the potential to develop past it.
I love how he says that but Chloe actually did change and Thomas just committed character assassination in the end turning her 180° and kicking her down a well just after she climbed out of said well.
Chloe is a bad person but a good character, she is actually developed but then all of a sudden Thomas just basically ignores all of that and resets her character. Hence, character assassination
There's so many characters he could have executed this theme with, but he went with the abused child. Okay.
It is very much wrong to put that character type on a child. Children can change. That character type could actually be put on Hawk Moth, because he's not only a grown adult, but has seemingly gone mad from grief and might even feel that he's made too many efforts to bring his wife back for him to turn back now.
@@redtailarts101 this! 👏🏾
The show freaking HAD a redemption plot RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM!
Make the characters realize Chloe does what she does because she craves attention she doesn't get at home, and have her learn how to draw positive attention to herself.
And the writers THREW IT AWAY!
Thomas threw it out the window. He was out for some reason for a bit and the writers actually made and started that ark themselves when he was out. When Thomas came back he was mad abt it I heard since Thomas doesn't like Chloe
I feel like Chloe could be so much more, like she and Marinette could become friends over time. Teaching Chloe to open up and be kinder so she could have actual friends who love her and make her feel welcome while also stroking Marinettes ego in the show cuz, you know, she is just so sweet and kind even the bully who hates everyone decided she likes Marinette. Also that would give Marinette a valid reason to give her the Bee. She would see Chloe is actually pretty reliable, but that would happen in like season 3 or 4
i think that was zoe job tho.. thats why zoe there in the show. but i would like to see chloe done it herself
It would be cool if Chloe did become Marinette’s friend but still call her out when Marinette goes in way over her head. Kinda like S2 Kagami.
The writer totally want us to hate her. But i won't.
**We won't.**
Chloe haters: Your supposed to hate Chloe!
Me: No. I won't!
Agreed
I wish chloe was someone like Cleo de Nile, a girl from a rich and influential family, a girl who's a little selfish and narcissistic but still shows care for her friends on her own way and is a good comedic character who manages to add some relaxing scenes to the show with her lines and actions
I'd like to see her and marinette duo or even an alya/mari/chloe savage trio (maybe, with sabrina), see her interact with cat noir (Adrien's alter ego) as both chloe and queen bee
Another wasted potential
Another thing that ruined Chloe’s character development was the introduction of Lila. Lila is an excellent character and in the beginning highlighted how Chloe was honestly the lesser of two evils. It helped reinforce the idea that someone like Chloe was much more redeemable than someone like Lila.
However, due to the poor writing and the introduction of Zoe, we now have one competent and interesting villain and antagonist in Lila and one stereotypical and frustratingly annoying one in Chloe. Chloe is practically not even needed if Zoe and Lila are now in the picture.
There’s a quote from a video I saw that sums up Chloe’s role as an antagonist vs Lila’s.
In trying to create an Azula like character in Chloe (cunning, intelligent, premeditative) they instead created a Zuko (relatable, sympathetic, understandable).
They gave Lila all the qualities of Azula and are now trying to force the notion that Chloe is the same, despite writing themselves into a corner and making her more of a Zuko.
(Zuko and Azula are antatognists from Avatar: The Last Airbender btw :) )
Chloe's actually like Zuko AND Azula. I certainly don't think the writers intended to make Chloe come across as sympathetic as she did.
Ironically, Azula is also sympathetic by alot of people as much as Zuko, even though she is definitely psychotic, her downfall was really hard to watch and it left alot of people feeling sorry for her ( me included), she is just a 14 yr old girl who never had a healthy figure in her life and belived fear is the only reliable way for respect and slowly lost everything including her mental health , so yeah you can make even the "iredemable villian " sympathetic but that would require complix writing ,but THOMAS, refuses to give the show any complex writing whatsoever
@@williamfinch9858 the comparison is not a total match, to even compare Lila and Chloe to Azula and Zuko is like comparing apples to oranges. The writing and characterization of ATLA is unmatched, so they’ll never fully be similar.
However, I’d still say Chloe does not embody the Azula they want her to be. Not in the way that Lila does.
@@miss.mirana4061 I agree that Azula has a level sympathy, but not much. And certainly not enough that I think many people who truly value her for who she is as a character believe that she doesn’t deserve a redemption arc. Having someone as insane as Azula not be redeemable because she will never change is interesting and makes for a fascinating character.
@@small_and_dangerous2068 well i did say that they managed to make the iredemable villian have sympathetic moments, i didn't say she was fully sympathetic
The way you described wasps reminds me of the theory were someone said “what if Zoe turns out to be a bad person after all and she just played nice to steal her sisters status in Paris” which with your explanation about wasps and her as vesperia would make a lot of sense in my opinion. I would love that theory to be true but since Thomas actually said he doesn’t want fans to like Chloe cause he hates her I don’t think that will ever happen… I doubt Chloe will get a redemption
If he hated her, why did he have Chloe as a character in the first place? Also that's a petty thing to say. He doesn't want fans, the people he's basically making the show FOR, to like a certain character because he, himself, hates her? That's petty as heck. Then again, he put himself on his own show since he was basically jealous that he got less attention or whatever the real details were. That's even more petty. (Apparently I like saying petty. XD) ...In other words, screw you, I like whichever character I want.
It would be kinda great - Queen Bee doesn't see herself as a villain because she's the good (sorta like Deadpool, doing good things while still not being a hero) - she would work with the heroes more and more together and become a better person (redemption arc) and then the whole thing with Zoe happens
I would call her Wilma in that instant and she becomes the Wasp and joins the bad guys but is a good person - she is sad because she has been abandoned by her mom and is mad when she finds out she has a family; so Wilma originally tries to win back her mom by trying to sabotage Chloe (giving her insight on how Marinette feels which would be a nice bonding moment) but then realizes that Chloe is also miserable and the mom sucks, so she goes to try and ruin the mom
Chloe and she end up fighting in their super forms, where Chloe recognizes Wilma in a moment, refuses to fight and gets defeated and then reveals her identity to Wilma - which could be the moment where Wilma starts migrating towards good, keeping her sisters identity secret and not finishing her off
Wilma gets then protected by Queen Bee when the villains find out about her siding more with the good guys, completing Bee's superhero arc and starting of the Wasps, where she joins Queen Bee and they both work together as a duo like chat and ladybug
Idea for their future could be that Chloe wants to meet and get to know Wilma's dad and they move to her country and continue being heroes there while Chat and Ladybug stay in France
Edit: basically that the hero group splits, with some moving out of the country and continuing their work elsewhere while others retire
@@snowball03-boop believe me I’m asking myself the same question💀 while I can justify creating a character you don’t like, I don’t know why you would give that character a redemption arc just to put her down again… and the thing about telling fans not to like her: apparently he told fans on twitter who said they liked her that she is not supposed to be liked and basically scolded them for liking her. (I don’t know what exactly was said tho, cause I don’t have twitter)
@@snowball03-boop and at this point I don’t even think he makes the show for fans anymore. He just wants to create that story he has in his head, which is great and all but if you act like him and don’t accept constructive criticism and instead start scolding and blocking fans then something most be seriously wrong with you…
yeah that was one of my wishes for Zoe because I hated everything they were doing
Finally! I've been waiting for this redesign ever since the last one! Chloe looks AMAZING here, and I adore her outfits. What she wore in the show always bugged me cause I found it so boring for someone who's rich and has a world renowned designer mother
Right???
Agreed 🙏
i wish (instead of having marinette select chloe as the bee holder) chloe had been chosen by an external force; like master fu. perhaps ladybug and cat noir had a very tough-time on one of their missions, and (in order to relieve them of some of that burden) he decides to venture out in search of a new team-member? maybe he'd happen across chloe being begged for money by a homeless individual, w her being her usual catty-self and going to abandon them, only to feel guilty and go out of her way to provide them w some fancy-lunch that had been prepped for her for school. this (paired w fu being an adult and having more perspective than marinette) would result in him both seeing her as a good-candidate, and wanting to help her embrace the kinder-side to her. someway or another, chloe would be introduced to the team and adrien (being her childhood friend) would be accepting and hopeful, whereas marinette (having suffered at the hands of chloe for years now) is extremely-displeased w this turn of events, and refuses to accept her/only begrudgingly goes along w it. perhaps chloe is being somewhat-arrogant and irritating, however she's still tries to make a good impression and is attempting to do her best at aiding them, but marinette is unable to see this due to her upset at having to work w chloe. maybe chloe begins feeling out-of-place and attempts to suck up to marinette, but to no avail, w chloe eventually messing up on a mission (due to her hast and arrogance) which results in ladybug lashing out at her - queen bee then runs off and (alike the first lila episode) ladybug gets a mouthful from cat noir for being too harsh w her? perhaps he then attempts to make it up to chloe, only for her to reject all of his attempts and demand he stop pestering her (in a short, condescending manner). maybe marinette feels bad and visits chloe in order to apologise and reason w her, resulting in chloe opening up ab her relationship w her mother (i'd imagine she'd have revealed her identity prior to these events) and marinette gaining some perspective and broadening her worldview? i dont think chloe should be forgiven for the way she's treated others immediately, however (w marinette now having this insight) maybe marinette could use this as the groundworks for helping chloe reform herself, and eventually admit fault and apologise for how she's treated her and the rest of the student-body. idk, it's rough and definitely contains a lot of discrepancies, however i think it'd open the door to a decent-exploration of all the nuances in the marinette/chloe dynamic, and how (despite there being a clear victim and abuser in said dynamic) they both have mistreated the other in some kind of way (not to demonise victims of bullying, this is specifically-targeted at marinette and chloe, not all victims and their bullies)
oh actually i adore this??? YES FOR CHLOE BEING CHOSEN BY FU THAT WOULD BE SO COOL
YASS
I recommend checking out the Scarlet Lady comic then. It’s basically an AU where Chloe became Ladybug instead of Marinette.
THIS
This!!
I wish so much that Zoe is actually like a wasp and is manipulating people into making them hate Chloe so that they like her, which could lead to an actual redemption arc where they all learn not to make immediate assumptions or whatever else but 8 know they won’t because Thomas astruck hates Chloe with a passion
To add to your party idea, I’d like it if Chloe invited Adrian and is forced to go by his dad because social class and all that rich rubbish but decided to sneak out and goes to Marinette’s instead. Him, Marri, and their small friend group have their own tiny party in her house and become closer.
I don’t know, I think that’d be cute and Adrien could grow as a character to be more rebellious against his dad
I LOVE IT
Same, it would be so adorable and wholesome
YES! JUST WHAT I THOUGHT!
Yesssssssssssss
That’s an awesome idea
Speaking of Zoe, I would like the idea keeping her to be Chloe's half-sister but more twisted. Zoe should be the opposite of Chloe, she's jealous and blames Chloe for ruined her own life because her mother abandoned her.
It would be twisted if she uses Marinette as her spawn by become her "fake" friend and pretends to be sympathetic person, just like what Lila did but more darker.
I imagined she would be akumatized and becomes "Vesperia" and only attacked Chloe/Queen Bee (or even her own mother) just like how the real life wasps killed bee colony. To me, instead replace with new character, Zoe should have been existed for develop Chloe's growth so that she realizes she needs letting go her mother for her own goodsake.
I love how you made Chloe a more influential & powerful character, instead of this random rich girl no one for some reason cares about.
😭 you know the writing is bad when the popular rich mean girl is more of the underdog than the “average girl” main character. Honestly most of the time, it feels like Marinette is the popular mean girl. Especially since as ladybug she has the standing necessary to totally destroy someone’s reputation- just look at lila’s introduction (even if it felt deserved) !
Also considering the school they go too tbh i always figured all of them were rich or at least well off 😭 Like it’s just hard to believe they are “average” kids to begin with with all the stuff they do and get access to.
Yeah, Marinette's home looks insane. A multi-level apartment in the very center of Paris?! JUST HOW RICH HER FAMILY IS?
maybe it's just my American point of view, but also you'd think the mayor's daughter would go to nice, exclusive school (in America, it would be an expensive private school. No idea if similar things exist in France) and wouldn't go to the same school as "everyone else"
@@NinjaFlibble This school already looks like a "nice, exclusive school". At least Marinette's family seems quite wealthy.
@@Sasha-zw9ss
I don't know if the U.S. is the only country with public school or not 😅
@@Sasha-zw9ss
I’m pretty sure in an episode they mention that her families bakery is one of or is the most famous bakery in Paris in this universe and she also works and collaborated with a famous rockstar several times. Her family is definitely wealthy. There’s absolutely no way she isn’t. And to be honest, the fact that the show tried to pass her off as some “average everyday girl” who’s hard work earns her everything she gets makes her more annoying then Chloe. At least Chloe is honest about her wealth and doesn’t put on the whole “working girl” bs. It’s so annoying. She wouldn’t have gotten any of the opportunities she gets in the show if she wasn’t wealthy and didn’t go to a school for more well off students and they pretend that she’s just a “hard worker.” Sorry for the rant, it just bothers me and someone finally brought it up.
This got me thinking that her heel could be a great area for a stinger, when she stings an enemy she would be in like a kicking stance 🐝🐝
Ooh i like that
that'd be kewl
If her heel was a stinger i think it would be good to maybe include something about her being a ballet dancer/ or a dancer in general, where her fighting looks like she is dancing
@@rubylu775 ooh yas queen
@@rubylu775 I always had a headcannon that chloe liked balletdancing
I would honestly like it if Zoe was introduced to help progress Chloe's character. Zoe is shown to accept the fact that her mother wouldn't be proud of her and perhaps, she could've instead helped Chloe to find validation elsewhere like she had. I didn't actually mind her introduction but her as a character now just destroys Chloe's. I think it would be good if they kept her personality but changed up her interaction with Chloe or change her personality to be more of a mean girl than Chloe, allowing Chloe to see for herself how vain she is and start to question if being mean really is what she wants.
Honestly I thought about it before but it does not make sense make her same age as Chloe so like if they want add Zoe then maybe Make her 4-6 year younger then Chloe because ( this just my fanfic Or headcanon i gusse idk ) let just say her mother left her when she was 5 year old and her mother just left her for another man and got pregnant. Once she reach in her teen year she felt betrayed by her own mother because she just found out she have another sister and once she met her sister for first time everything is just reminding her when she was younger and later on she got redeem. Again If they would add Zoe I think it would be better if she was a child and not a teenager
@@swiftyleaf agreed. If Zoe had been at most a tween, it would make sense. Part of me thinks Astruc did not think about the fact that Audrey would need time before she had another pregnancy since it's very dangerous to have two with little time in-between. I don't know about you but Audrey seems to be a narcissist, meaning she would care more for her own well-being than anyone else. Since Chloe is like 14-15, the oldest I think Zoe could be is 11-12. (Assuming Audrey immediately cheated on her husband.)
@@mastertofu honestly it is impossible to get pregnant again 4-5 week after when you just gave birth to baby because it happens to my mom but surprisingly she was fine anyway it would beTter if Zoe was 10-12 year old and Chloe is 15
Maybe Zoe could still be Queen Bee, but not like a replacement. It could be like when Alya got the Ladybug miraculous because Marinette trusted her because she went on a trip. Zoe could’ve been just someone to help Chloe develop, and use the miraculous only once when Chloe was absent. Chloe is the definition of waste of potential.
@@wordswstupidtile in the scenario where Zoe still gets the bee miraculous I think it’d be interesting if Chloe somehow finds out she’s vesperia and is over come with jealousy and steals the miraculous from her but inevitably gives it back realizing what she’s doing is wrong which could show her character growth or have Zoe find out Chloe was queen bee and give the miraculous back to her out of guilt
Honestly this character makes my heart hurt. She feels so much like what an actual child in a toxic family situation would struggle with. Even the fact her character is basically abandoned for the half sister. It’s much like how parents who divorce/cheat favor their new family over their other children.
This is a terrible message, especially for a child in a position similar to Chloe’s to see. Especially since we see there’s more to her. It’s like if avatar scrapped Zuko’s character arc after season 1.
Playing favorites in writing and in the show itself as Chloe’s father ships her off with her mom to “fix her behavior” while Zoe stays in Paris. Absolute dog water.
Aaaaaaah amaziiing I'm so happy of how it turned out ♥
Yeah it is
It was so fun to work with you!!! Let's do this again soon!
Your animation is absolutely gorgeous! I adore it🥰🥰
Same. MMD seems hard to work with, I think it's pretty cool that it turned out so well.
your animation turned out so well!!!!! its so cool to see !!
First and foremost I love the redesign, it screams "authority". And I like how your version of Chloe would act, but personally, I think that for the sake of her redemption she should act a bit different.
Either make her being mean to Marinette somehow special, like having her "knocking her down a peg" as a child one of a few things that her mother actively praised her for, or make her being mean to Marinette be a conflict of interests, not something she actively strives for, like her putting pressure on Marinette during the election isn't because she cares about Marinette but because she wants to be class president to make her parents proud.
(side note: I would love it if as you said she won but Marinette being in 2nd makes her a VP and they need to work together for some stuff like class completion and surprising everyone they work perfectly together, hinting at the possibility of them becoming friends/teammates later down the line)
And the thing that I have only issue with is her bee-haviour as Queen Bee, I think that it would make a good contrast bee-tween her look and personality if she treats other heroes like equals or if in the case of Ladybug and Chat Noir with respect. It would hint that her true personality isn't as bad as it may seem at first glance, but still make her treat Akumas and Hawkmoth as lesser of her.
I love the bee puns lol! Good ones
The puns 👌✨
oouuu I'd STAN Queen Bee treating her teammates as equals and her enemies as beneath her (legit queen energy 👏👏)
Thomas decided to walk back Chloe’s development to make her a villain, but there’s already a perfectly good antagonist in Lila. Lila could be the Chloe that Chloe was to Mari.
Thats soo true like imagine if Lila was Season 3‘s Final bad guy That would have been so cool
They don't even need to make Chloe the bestest friend ever to Marinette, they could still have her be a mean girl but she starts to gain a new respect for Marinette and Marinette, while she still doesn't like Chloe, at least acknowledges that she does well as Queen Bee so when Lila comes into the picture and tries to ruin their lives, they team up to expose Lila for the liar she is.
Lila would've made a better "irredeemable villain" than Chloe tbh. Unlike Chloe who acts like a brat to prove her mother that she's an exceptional person, Lila is a pathological liar who lies to get whatever she wants. Chloe has an abusive mom and an enabler father that gets her whatever she wants instead of disciplining her. Lila has a loving mother and still lies just for the sake of it. Chloe has proven that she's a good hero and is capable of changing and has resisted Hawk Moth's akumatization, while Lila has never shown any sign of being able to change
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 Agreed
@@whatever5401 I’m so sad at the wasted potential this show has
Miraculous Ladybug: nah chloe doesn't get a redemption
Artists/Fanfic writers: *fine, we'll do it ourselves.*
Something that I had in my mind for some time was Chloe’s role in Adrian’s life as his friend. Even though she’s supposed to be the mean girl, that doesn’t exactly mean she is like that to everyone. Sometimes even the most terrible people can be capable of caring about someone and being kind to them. Perhaps, if your version keeps Hawk Moth finding out his son is Chat Noir in some form, perhaps Chat also finds out his father is Hawk Moth and leaves his father as a result of it. He turns to Chloe, who is already Queen Bee at this point, about his secret in fear that his father would hurt him (whether his father ever intended to hurt his son from this information or not can be up to you, but perhaps if he didn’t, then this can be a consequence for his actions against Chat Noir and his neglect towards his son). Chloe agrees to keep Adrian’s secret safe with her and allows him to say in a different hotel room in the same hotel as a means of protection. This can demonstrate their friendship and trust, including the advantage of having one miraculous whose identity is out in the open. The other miraculous holders Queen Bee considers her workers, especially her friends, and therefore will protect them if they are ever in danger. Perhaps this is something Chat Noir doesn’t tell Lady Bug or the other miraculous holders, because he doesn’t want to worry them and since Chloe knows him better than anyone, he knows she’s not going to allow anyone to hurt him or anyone. Lady Bug does find out eventually at some point and Is upset Chat never went to her, being they work together so much and she isn’t aware of their history. But then, Queen Bee reminds Lady Bug that Chat Noir does trust her, but also needs to understand that Chat Noir’s arch enemy is his father and no one can ever respond in anything but fear and hurt with that kind of News. Not to mention this same father had neglected his son for so long. It’s an interesting way of Marinet learning that despite how mean Chloe is to her at school, she does genuinely care about the other miraculous.
I would love for this version of Chloe to have a mutually beneficial rivalry with Marinette. At the beginning of the show they despise each other but then form a sort of friendship once they come to understand each other.
Marinette helps Chloe to be a kinder, more empathetic person while Chloe helps Marinette improve as a hero by holding her to high standards and holding Marinette accountable for her mistakes and shortcomings. Chloe could be an excellent catalyst for Marinettes growth and, in a way, she could be there for her when no one else is because she would be the first and/or only friend to call her out on her bullshit.
I would find it so funny if Chloe, when watching from a distance and being the perfectionist she is, just straight up criticizes the actions of the enemies, like nitpicking and judging them, so she can get out her tendency towards perfectionism and learn to be more helpfully criticizing. Like, humor therapy or something.
Yeah!
More like ROASTING🔥🔥🔥
“UH, YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE A SPEEDSTER VILLAIN AND YOU’RE IN THAT TACKY LOW HEM DRESS? HOW DO YOU EVEN RUN IN THOSE? YOU WOULD LOOK BETTER IN RAGS THAT THAT DISASTER OF A OUTFIT”
Unpopular opinion probably but I think Zoe could have been great. They were just too focused on replacing Chloe to actually give her the time to develop as a character before she got her hands on a miraculous. She was extremely rushed just because she was treated more as another way to destroy Chloe than as a new character.
I think it would have been so much more interesting is Zoe and Chloe were forced to interact more and maybe even learn from each other to improve themselves: Zoe could have properly learned to stand up for herself and be confident from Chloe and Chloe could have learned how to be kinder towards others and put her mean girl persona to good use instead of her just being a mean girl by having to stand up for her sister. They are both portrayed in the show as having these flaws because of their mother after all. Why not let them grow and heal from that together?
That’s a good one. They use their strengths to cover the others’ weaknesses
SAME! They don’t have to be the way they are in the show.
Well, from Chloe stating that she’s herself is useless I don’t think she has true confidence herself leading to bumps down the road, but that could just be something she needs to learn to help Zoe.
Wouldn’t the whole “standing up for herself” bit would be more appropriate for Sabrina? Zoe’s just there as a spite for Chloe fans.
Scarlet Lady is amazing with how often the characters change clothes, Chloe included and she. Is. FABULOUS. Even different hairstyles and Chloe rocks them all!
Yes. But that's sadly a Chloe salt fic. And Marinette is just the hero again. It's not a fun AU because it's just another Marinette is the best UwU. It's annoying.
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian
Well…there is another fanfict that has Chloe being a compentent Ladybug, do you want to read it?
@@snivygreen2216 link?
@@veenu_1853 look up miraculous ladybug tales of scarlet luck
@@snivygreen2216 will do
The fact that Chloe was replaced by Zoe is so pathetic to me, since Chloe actually had potential and Zoe was literally some stranger. Sure, she is Chloe's half sister, but that doesn't mean that Chloe should just be ignored like in the show. To be honest, watching Zoe get the bee miraculous and then save everyone and stuff just made me hate Zoe more, since it just meant that the show was saying that we should just hate Chloe and love Zoe instead. I disliked her at first, but when I started to really get into the character's stories, my dislike for her went down and I started liking her more. Her character doesn't deserve to be thrown away.
Chloe is a way better character than Zoe. Change my mind
To add about the "Chloe can't be Queen Bee anymore 'cause everyone knows her secret identity" :
1 - In Miraculer, while Marinette said she didn't had the time to tell Chloe about the "good news" (as if, Marinette) it is said that Hawkmoth could not only harm her family but also ambush Ladybug when she comes to deliver the Bee miraculous. A realistic scenario, which they could have used at their advantage to trick Hawkmoth too. And guess what ? Hawkmoth come to Chloe with an akumatized Sabrina who stole the heroes' powers but they manage to trick them to take back said powers, give Chloe the Bee miraculous and she almost catch Mayura ! Imagine how it could have turns out if the heroes actually used Hawkmoth predictable move to bait and ambush him instead...
2 - At the end of Miracle Queen, while it's not a public knowledge like for Chloe, Hawkmoth learns the identity of every temporary holder, yet they aren't replaced in season 4 but it's never pointed out in the series, even by Chloe ! It doesn't excuse Chloe bad actions but it make the end of Queen Bee's arc totally forced and Marinette, which is supposed to be the good girl, is once again portrayed as an hypocritical. What a way the close a season...
This was absolutely amazing! And I agree with almost everything you said. Just a few notes.
First- So the whole protection charm thing now is outdated ever since Mega Akumas where introduced and those things could counter the charms. (I believe the episode was Mega Leech)
Second- I now understand the skirt design and I love it even more now. I also like the whole spy gimmick for Queen Bee. It really brings the “Totally Spies” inspiration for Chloe’s design to a full circle. I imagine this Queen Bee working well with Rena Rouge/Furtive since the fox miraculous is built around espionage as well.
Third- The point you brought up about Chloe not letting go of her behavior because of the fear of loosing her mom is something I never thought about (and I think about Chloe’s character quite a bit when it comes to character design). And now I feel even more bad for her character-
Fourth- I noticed that you didn’t go that much into Chloe’s relationships with other characters (besides Marinette) or how you would develop them over time, if they develop at all, (Marinette, Adrian, Sabrina, her parents, etc.) which is something I often look for in character redesigns of Chloe. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, could you give a quick summary of this? If you don’t want to, it’s totally fine.
I imagine she's still friends with Sabrina and treats her like a lackey, and she likely has her classmates in her pocket. They admire and fear her, so they follow her around and do what she says. They know things ABOUT her, but they don't know HER, if that makes sense? I picture her as the kind of person who holds others at a distance due to her insecure attachment to her own parents.
@@callimara Makes sense. I assume that the next step would have her become more open to others and treat people like actual humans than personal servants (*coughSabrinacough*)
I think what I meant to ask is would you see your version of Chloe becoming closer With Marinette or Adrian or even Alya or Nino as time goes by?
@@redballoon9007 absolutely!
Wait what??? The magical charms aren't a thing anymore? Man this show is amazing at introducing shit for a little while and then basically completely getting rid of it.
@@47ratsinahoodie Yeah, Gabe found a workaround to them. He can create an akuma that can get through the power of the charm. Yet Marinette still hands them out even after she finds out that he can do that.
No matter how much the writers want me to hate her, I really can't.
Agreed
I feel like Thomas and other people in the writers team were trying to project their bitterness over girls that rejected them. Chloe is an Archetype in fiction that most incels picture when thinking about those women.
The funniest thing is astruc
Isnt a incel hes a male
Feminist, but he thinks
Women should be perfect
And never be flawed
Thomas thinks women
Are flawless and propably
Hates chloe because she
Gets in the way of his
Ideology.
@@elongatedmanforever1252
I'm happy you mentioned this.
My only issue with her redesign is that she looks like an adult, not a middle schooler, but either way she looks far more beautiful now, great job! Also: her hat is a awesome decision to hide her comb from Hawk Moth's eyes if you were her
P808
She's,,, in a college, I think, idk
That’s a you problem lol cuz she looks gorgeous
@@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834 yeah :) Chloe basically allowed me to see that girls are attractive. I'm bi now :')
I think it's fine. Excessive makeup can have this effect. Even just a bit of dark lipstick plus mascara can make you look like five years older.
4:16 she shouldve been like a fashion icon with unexpected combinations that look astonishing. i cant even imagine how that would look like but it would be logical
It would perfecly go with her finding herself ! Experimenting with all those clothes, texture, colors, looking like her mother, being the total opposite, being the new trend, working with the Agrest House, feeling protected by her clothes, looking more like Adrian and doing stuff with him...
Outfits can mean a lot for a character, their evolution and what happening in their life.
And it's also very funny to do on the artist part!
I haven't kept up with ML in a bit so finding out that chloe has a sister AND was replaced by this sister is wild. Chloe was an actually interesting character and they really did her dirty.
My stance on Chloe as Queen Bee is that, does she want to be a superhero to help people, or get close to Ladybug? Does she actually want to be a hero, or does she like the attention she gets from being a hero? In Queen Wasp, her whole motivation for using the miraculous was to get approval from her mother, and it doesn’t seem that her motivation changes at all since then. I see Chloe as a person who is constantly seeking approval from others. From her cold, unloving mother, her busy father, her classmates, her childhood (and only) friend Adrien, and her idol Ladybug. I think that’s why she ultimately chose to side with Hawkmoth, he promised her the bee miraculous, which in her eyes was the key to getting that approval she craved. Idk, that’s just my take on the character. I really wanted to like Chloe and did until the writers absolutely nerfed any development she had.
If we are going by this logic I’d argue that the one time that she actually wanted to do something good was in LoveEater when she wanted to save her parents.
@@redballoon9007 Malekdiktator too.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios and I guess Zombizu too when she sacrificed herself.
As much as I actively dislike Chloe, I do enjoy the rework you've done for her. Her look is fantastic, and the personality you described for her is basically what I already saw her as. Though as somebody who got fatigued with the show and Chloe the day she immediately revealed her identity as Queen Bee like an absolute moron, I honestly wouldn't have minded if she got the Mandy treatment and I never had to see her take part in a major plot point again after that monumentally stupid decision. If she was in a world where being a superhero was an actual job and maintaining a secret identity was a requirement of the job, that one incident alone would have gotten her fired with zero hesitation if her boss(es) did their job correctly.
Also, I'm sure I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I don't really care. With what little I know of Zoe, I don't think she deserves to be written off entirely. Her backstory legitimately interests me, she could have helped Chloe's development, the fact that she apparently has a habit of switching facades around others is a really fun idea to work with, and I generally just the potential for her to be a really interesting character if in the hands of a more competent team. She definitely shouldn't have been given her the bee miraculous. Even I don't think that was a good move for her. But having her present in Chloe's life in general would have been perfectly fine to me, especially if they were rewritten to have been decently close at some point or another. Hell, it's established that there are miraculous holders in the US, so if Zoe absolutely had to have a miraculous for some reason, it would be simple to give her one of the ones in the US miracle box.
(Apologies for how rambly that last section got. I just don't think the narrative potential for Zoe's character deserves to be ignored the way it often is by both viewers and the show staff. Chloe definitely was done dirty more than anybody else, but Zoe deserved to be written/treated like her own person and not just a tool to push Chloe further and further out of the plot.)
True, heck maybe they could have made a Wasp Miraculous for Zoé since her hero persona is more based off of a wasp instead of a bee
@@elinasakura I've personally been working on a chameleon miraculous for her because her whole thing of swapping personas at the drop of a hat made me think of a chameleon.
Hmm, that’s an interesting interpretation of how Zoe would be portrayed, and in my opinion, she should be leaning on the whole cousin angle like wasps are like cousins of bees.
I love how instead of making her nice as the show kept trying to say she is you made actually evil, an antagonist not someone who just causes akumas from slight insults or big ones even tho everyone hates her but you still kept her backstory to explain how she acts and made people actually like her cause she is the “popular kid” cause according to her she only has one friend ONE HOW IS SHE POPULAR?! Thank you for fixing this
Your point about marinette only wanting Yes Men around her holds up! (SPOILERS)
in the current season, Adrien feels neglected because Marinette doesnt even call him for missions anymore and all gives the miraculouses to her classmates and they always do exactly what she says. He gives up his miraculous but Plagg tells him to change his appearance and be someone else. He becomes someone who says YES to everything that LB tells him to do, and now he is "too perfect" so none of the plans work.
The thing is, Chat has ALWAYS said yes to everything, whats the difference now? Also, marinette gaining a crush on the fake chat noir is so disgusting to me. She only likes people who say yes to her and do everything she wants.
Also the rocketear episode? Yeah, she's a massive hypocrite and the show barely does anything about it
Old comment, I know but that situation is even worse. When Chat Noir changes up his behaviour, he becomes more like his civilian self i.e. the sheltered, controlled, and isolated super model who's super polite because he has no spine. And Marinette likes that version of Cat Noir MORE than his old self. You know? Adrien's true personality?! It's why I can't believe this show when they say that Adrien and Marinette are soulmates or that she's in love with him. Time and time again, we are shown that Mari only likes the fake, artificial version of him and treats his true self like shit.
2:48 Exactly! You're right. There's something about Chloe that makes people hesitant to call her a villain. If you're not writing her like that then you haven't captured the essence of the character. Sorry, but I'm looking at you Scarlet Lady.
Scarlet Lady??
@@bluebay1031 It’s a web comic on Tumbler about Chloe having the ladybug miraculous.
I don’t get it, why not redeem her if she’s like the main character
tysm for making chloes wardrobe not look as atrocious as it did originally 😀🤚
Callimara's Chloe looks like a rich fashion icon who wears the most expensive clothing whereas Chloe in the show looks like a 30 yo depressed single mom
You do have a point about making her a support class. All the other element miraculous could be considered support. The fox is for trickery, the turtle is the tank, the butterfly is buff, and the peacock is summons. In the main duo Ladybug is more the ranged fighter while Cat Noir is melee, though he is able to extent or throw his weapon.
I do like the idea of the bee being a spy, although the bright yellow makes that a bit hard. I am on the fence about giving her flight and drones. When I saw the image I assumed the wings were for decoration. Excluding Ladybug's secondary powers, the miraculous seem to grant the same power set to everyone plus one unique power and a weapon. Granted Cat Noir was shown to have better night vision than Ladybug. Then there is the matter of the space power ups, which they use for flight and would make it seem redundant in the case of the bee. Although it could be argued that the space power up is faster, not that anyone has used a power up aside from the main duo. And if the bee could enable flight people might question why the ladybug and butterfly can't do that as well. Granted Hawk Moth spends most of his time hiding in his lair, so flight would be wasted on him.
Thematically it would be fitting for the bee to allow them to deploy drones and the when Queen Bee was akumatized she normally got drones. Personally wise it seems drones would be more Max's thing. This again goes into making the bee overpowered when compared to the others, granting it a second weapon. The fox, butterfly, and peacock do all allow them to see through the eyes of what they make, since they have some idea of what is going on, even if they aren't in the room. I guess this would leave the turtle as the odd man odd if the bee could do that too.
Overall I do like idea. A while back I created a character with a similar power set for my original universe. They were bee themed with flight, drones, and stun. Although I kind of came up with the drones first and built the character around them. I didn't even think of Miraculous, even though it was after I started watching it.
I agree that maybe having both the drones and flight might be a little too much. So I was considering how to make her fly without actually making her fly, and I thought, “what if her drones just carried her around?”
Like, that would be kind of a power move tbh. Just imagine it, a swarm of bees arrives and part a bit to reveal Chloe just casually sitting on them. The Queen has arrived. Her subjects carry her around.
Drones are pretty loud and bees and I think bees are better cause they are pretty small so it can hide where ever it want
@@cherilynsarts8845 I assumed the drones would look like bees.
@@cherilynsarts8845 Oh, I meant drones as in bees that function as drones.
I can imagine a scene in this better Miraculous when Ladybug/Mari first gives Chloe her miraculous Chloe says "Come-on my worker bees let's go"
With a pause of her flying away or something with Ladybug and Cat Noir standing their and Ladybug just goes: "I'm starting to regret my decision" and it continues for the episode with them being annoyed with each other until Mari learns how to work with her and defeat the villian.Great Video!
I feel like that would be really
Let's face it, when it comes to Marinette/Ladybug, Austruc is like one of those toxic stage moms who can't stand seeing his "baby" be outshone by anyone so he sabotages the competition whenever he can so they can "win". Also if you want to read a great redemption arc fanfic for Chloe I'd highly recommend "Chloe and the Bee" by anxresi.
Even though they ruined chloe's character i still love her and is still ny favorite character ( also im a new sub and im enjoying your content so far 😊 )
I feel like if Miraculous was rewritten in Cali's image, Zoe should be included, but only as Chloe's literary foil, the blue to her red if you will
I don't mean that as a "evil twin meant to villianized the other" manner either, I mean in the way that prompts and encourages the characters to grow and better themselves in a way they latter is and they are not
For example, Zoe, as per the description given, is nice. She is empathetic, sweet and a good friend, meanwhile Chloe is shown to be maicious, nasty and a horrible companion
In Cali's version, she could have Zoe be a push over, and a social doormat who is utterly miserable with how nice she is. Have her feel guilty and be a people pleaser to her own detriment, have her sit quietly by choice when no one is around with a deep frown and a sorrowful gaze. And have Chloe stay a hard ass, someone who won't take no for an answer and is miserable from it. But also have Chloe be pushed to the side when a social gathering happens with outside sources, maybe a party from outside of Paris where her status means nothing, and her meanness meant everything. Have Chloe watch in enraged silence as Marinette is picked over her, and when she demands to know why have it slowly grow in desperation and guilt, until it's hurtful, throat scratching and heart breaking to watch
And have a climatic moment between Zoe and Chloe, maybe an explosive argument or a tearful statement made with seething anger in the air. Have them finally confess their miserable states to each other, have them compare stories, have them understand, and have them walk away better than before
Have them walk in hating each other and have them walk out loving each other, first as friends, then finally, finally as family
This is so good!!
ayyy, the designs are lovely mate, I like that you didn't just try and make her nice but misunderstood as so many people try in rewrites, yes she is misunderstood but she is snarky not nice, she's my favourite character because of her potential and the way you've done this is is very on point
Chloe is my favorite character in the series and I really adore her and sympathize with her.
And even though she can be mean for no reason sometimes, I know she's just a girl and still has
room to grow. There's actually a line from the Heathers musical of the song 'Prom or Hell'. And one of
the lyrics is "They were just seventeen, they still had room to grow, they could have turned out good,
but now we'll never know".
Woah. Was the prom blown up or something?
@@dariusbrown7870 it's probably better to listen to the musical yourself. The musical is amazing.
@@DuskPShermanWallaby123 Considering I’ve heard “Meant to be Yours” before I think I know the answer. Jeez, he really did turn his school into Vietnam.
CHLOE SHARES AN EYE GRADIENT WITH FREAKING GUARDIANS?!
SHE DOES
@@callimara OH MY GOODNESS I MUST TELL MY BROTHERS IMMEDIATELY
Wha-
"The show treats [Chloe] the same way her mom does."
"[wasps being parasitic] is the perfect representation of Zoe's existence..."
shots fired XD (and I 100% agree). Chloe isn't my favorite character, but I loved the arc the non-Astruc writers tried to give her. Every time I see someone resist Hawkmoth now, I mentally say "just remember, Chloe did it first."
I absolutely LOVE her canon hero costume. To me it’s by far one of the most aesthetically pleasing, yet her character is the embodiment of absolute disappointment. She had so much potential to be a great character, yet they, specifically Thomas, decided that she’s irredeemable, and I don’t like the message that sends to children.
The simplicity is so effective. It compliments her overall look so well in the show.
Her hair is AMAZING I’m her hero suit
I've been thinking about doing my own rewrite-ish thing of MLB, and this gave me an idea for a Chloe redemption arc-- a redemption arc that gives Zoe Lee use that isn't replacing Chloe!
I thought of the song (don't remember then name) that says "if you love her let her go" or something along the lines of that, and it popped into my head that Zoe (for once not Marinette cuz she's annoying asf) could be introduced when Chloe's mom is on screen because she's coming for a fashion show for 2-3 week. Zoe sees that fashion mom treats Chloe badly (Fashion Mom isn't in Zoe's life at all, and I reckon her dad'd be a good person for this concept, hence why she's a good person) and talks to Chloe about it. Of course, Chloe would deny this, but over time I'd try to build up Chloe breaking down because fashion mom would be constantly talking crap about her, criticizing everything she does, basically everything she does in the main show just... More?
Later on Zoe could walk in on Chloe crying and just as usual, offers to talk about it, and unlike the times before, Chloe's just so upset (and fashion mom would be out) and just tell her about her longstanding problems with her family. Zoe could tell her that fashion mom isn't a good person or someone to idolize, she should talk about these issues to her dad because they CLEARLY aren't working out and tells her she should let her mom go.
Chloe could get mad for an episode and storm off crying or something, but eventually thinks about it before taking Zoe's advice, talking to her dad and FINALLY letting go of her mom- it would be a long process the viewers would regularly get updates on (most likely from Zoe, since I feel Chloe would take some time off to just let it all out and calm herself down), and by the end of the arc she'd have a different style than before, and would probably walk in with Zoe, talk to ginger girl who's name idk and they could become friends again (I'd have an arc for ginger girl where she drops Chloe as a friend after gaining more confidence because Marinette or someone shows her how bad Chloe is for her mentally).
And by the end, I'd also plan for Marinette and Chloe to NOT become friends, but simply have Chloe apologise for her past bullying and promise to try to make up to it, also saying she understands if Marinette doesn't accept her apology. Marinette would accept the apology but they'd simply leave it on neutral terms, Chloe would give up being class prez and hand it over to Mari, move on to next arc.
I know there's a lot of holes but I plan on updating this idea when I get around to it, because I simply thought of a villain route as well but I rlly don't wanna do that, it just seems so meaningless and I want a PURPOSE FOR LILAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I support this
A purpose for Lila other than lying seems like a good plan to me 😩
This is pretty great! I actually really love this-
@@0-Stars-MikiTune- thank you-
@@Angie_lol also MAKE HER MORE FLICKIN REALISTIC MAN ON THE SHOW PEOPLE LITERALLY BELIEVE THE DUMBEST LIES WHEN SHE AROUND THATS NOT HOW MANIPULATION WORKS- (and a proper backstory/arc for my waifu uwu)
Chole should be the definition of a wasted character
and adrien
This show and its characters should be the definition of wasted potential
I feel like Pollen would still care about Chloe.
I can imagine Cloe using her organization skills to structure a plan for every mission, like when to attack and what to use or do, or just tactics in general. Like it doesn't have to be a really good plan (sun Tzu) but like a working plan, and when it worked the first time and she got praise from the whole team it would be cute to find out that she tried hard to learn actual strategies in combat afterwards. But she wouldn't admit it though.
And maybe as a bonus if it doesn't go as plan, aka someone doing smth different she would totally freak out and maybe as a part of character development that she would later learn to be more patient or more flexible in unexpected situations as it always can happen and crying about things would not solve problems. It's also a good massage I think.
I think it would be a cool conflict to see that Cloe is struggling deciding which person to idolize. As she idolize her mother and lady bug, but they're both different characters, which make their ideology clash onto each other. It would maybe make the redemption arc more fitting as her whole I'm a bully persona is based on her mother. She could overcome her obsession to please her and become her own person.
It would be cool to see
Chloe reminds me so much of Diamond Tiara from MLP. A spoiled rich kid, the bully at school, and trying to idolize her parents or seek their approval. There's a whole song of Diamond Tiara's relationship towards her parents and how she struggles with her reputation. Diamond Tiara was very unlikable whenever she was on screen during the first few seasons, but then she slowly revealed herself to be an insecure little girl all while living in a lavish lifestyle, trying to live up to her expectations towards her parents and peers, and being unlikable to earn a form of approval and recognition.
I just realize something has anyone else realize that in kuro neko cat noir/adrien was able to change his super hero design if he change his persona as a hero and same thing with rena rouge ( since hawk moth knows who she is ) but chloe cant!? She could just be like adrien she can change her persona as a hero still the same mean girl as a regular person but different as a hero like thats makes marinette alot more hypocritical!!!
Yep!
Everything I hear about Chloe makes me think of Helga, from Hey Arnold! Even as a kid, I never really hated Helga, because, while she was a bully, she wasn't really hated by everyone in her class; none of them had any problem talking back to her and she could be kind in her own way (the Christmas special.)
On top of that, she would always be included in whatever her class had going on (sports, parties, etc.) And, while her nasty attitude would make everyone wary of her, if she expressed interest in joining in on their activities, the group would allow her to join.
It probably helps that the writers of Hey Arnold! had no problem focusing on characters other than Arnold and Helga's episodes show that she lashes out because she doesn't have the best home life, with her parents being more appreciative of her perfect older sister, to the point that she had to walk herself to preschool on the first day.
I just rambled a lot about a show I haven't seen in years, but the point I'm trying to make is that Chloe could have been a modern-day Helga Pataki; a pretty, popular girl, who is also a spoiled, cruel bully. Not that she's not capable of being nice, but, if you aren't Adrien or Sabrina (or Ladybug,) why would she be nice to you?
And her showing kindness or support to Ladybug (likely in private, she has a reputation, you know) would really throw Marinette off, because Chloe being nice? Does not compute.
This is one show where I actually wouldn't mind seeing a reboot lmao. Some reboots can be really good. This whole show is such a missed opportunity.
At least there's fan fiction. *Gives Dramatic Sigh*
Chloe just mainly exists to make Marinett look better which is sad, cause the need to put others down to make your maincharacter look better is just a proof that your maincharacter in itself is lackluster as f.
Zoe is redundant and seems like a last minute implementation.
I love your Chloe design! It's great. It's fashionable. And I loved Winx Club and Totally Spies. Chloe isn't my favorite character, but she is the definitely the most layered one.
If Chloe does become the next big bad I actually wouldn’t be mad. You literally stated the way she’s treated is like a villains origin story so honestly why not.
Actually, Zoe could be a cool concept for a villainous character of sorts or smth along those lines. Though, with Lila's existence/nonexistence (because the writers don't seem to know if she should stay or not??) it might end up the same as her. But I do kinda like the wasp variation because of the way it's built, in which wasps are parasitic compared to the more docile and helpful bees. Idk just a thought
Oh, like an akumatized (is that how it's spelled?) version of the bee miraculous?
@@eldritchabomination9726 mayhaps
Zoe as a villain is an interesting concept
to all the chloe stans (including myself) she already IS the villain
I believe in this chloe supremacy🛐🛐
Chloe was long over due for a redesign and this is utterly amazing! Chloe is not my favourite character but she is certainly in my top 3. That transformation sequence was also outstanding, great job Pimika!
Your design of Chloe/Queen Bee, I feel like fits more with her “class role” and hero name.
I actually relate to Chloe a lot, my parents got divorced when I was 3 and even though I do live with my mom, my dad still... "tries" to keep in touch with me, and I ended up turning out a lot like my mom, even if I don't really like the way my mom is sometimes, I can't really help but notice how sometimes, I'm just like her.
So glad you did Chole, she needed it👍
Honestly I feel as if Zoe can be useful in this storyline you coming up with, and look I know Zoe had no real point of existing but there is a very unique direction to expand on Chloe's character. Really imagine if her mother favorite Zoe for whatever reason. If she constantly put the two of them against each other saying things like "oh my Zoe is SO smart, I just know she'll get the high score on the test. Chloe? Oh she won't do good enough" little things like that constantly.
Referring this idea in Chloe's head that she isn't good enough and building on her need to please her mother but not just her mother also Zoe because really if Chloe wanted to get on her mother's good side, pleasing her favorite child would help.
Keep in mind this is all through mentions and pieces of video calls. We don't meet her in person until season 4 and, let's say, by that point Chole has either left, or sadly more realistically, abandoned by her mother after she refuses to leave a fight in order to plan her mother's party. Now Chloe is abandoned, only having her sister. Zoe however, inherited her mother's nature and isn't the piece of cardboard she's in the show. She's manipulative and uses Chole, an interesting episode would be of Zoe found out Chloe was a miraculous holder and Zoe DEMANDED to have it. After like, a day she gives it back because she really wanted the attention that came with being a miraculous holder and the whole Superhero fighting was a no for her. Of course she adds some manipulation like "I was just testing you" BS however from that point on she demands that Chloe stop whatever she's doing and use her miraculous to do things like take Zoe to the mall or show off to her friends. And if Chloe said no Zoe would begin manipulating her. What if one day after Chole said no Zoe said "YOU'RE LEAVING ME BEHIND! YOU'RE JUST LIKE MOM!" Chloe, devastated and hurt runs away. That combined with how Marinette was treating her as a tool to call upon in season 4 built sentiment in Chloe, she had sacrificed everything, risked her life, and it wasn't enough? This was the change in her character from now on she wasn't fighting for Paris, she wasn't fighting for ladybug, she wasn't fighting for hawk moth. Queen bee was going solo! And Chloe was pushing herself harder than ever before. Because if she wasn't good enough, then she had to work overtime to prove she was worth something. To prove that she was needed. She poured all her time and energy into defending Paris because without their love and support what else do she have? Without that conditional "love" they gave her she had no one. She begins a spiral, pushing herself harder and harder to the point where she starts neglecting her own health, taking every risk and going to every extreme. Maybe Aiden can be the one to help her leave her spiral because he relates to her, or maybe one of the people that haven't been redesigned can help her. I don't know either way I love your videos and I'm really excited to see the next one! You inspire me so much :)
The art is amazing, I also love the way you change and add to each characters' personalities. :))
Oh thank you!
I definitely want a rewrite of Gabriel Agreste/Hawk Moth. Something that would make him more understandable as a villain would be great.
Chloe with her hair down makes my heart go-
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❤️
Also, haven't watched the whole video yet but every point you've said about her not being so fashionable in the show is so true
WOW. I can not find my words to tell you how good that design is. First you made Chloe more fashionable and I like that, second you made her more an antagostis and I love that third that queen bee redesign as a character role and suits are fabulous. This all consept of working bees and spy remind me of a very old fanfiction that I write a long time ago when the miraculous box was introduce and the bee miraculous was not used.
Overall this is just perfect and Chloe deserve this perfection.
40 MINUTES?? YOU'RE SPOILING US HERE
*Fun(lmao not really) Fact:*
Thomas has stated Chloe is based on his childhood bully. Also there was a while in the season 2 when Thomas wasn't working on the show and when he came back he saw the character development the other writers have kind of set up for Chloe and he decided to obviously ruin the best written character because "BULLIES CAN'T CHANGE A 14 YO IS NEVER GOING TO BE REDEEMABLE!!". istg this dude is a man-child..
In conclusion, this is why we in the Miraculous fandom can't have nice things.
the creator stated that Chloe didn’t deserve a redemption arc. He said it’s because she reminds him of an old childhood bully.
over all never stupid
I think that Chloe being a event organizer and the Mari bday thing you said made me get an ideia for the start of her redemption arc
Chloe's having a party, but it's at the same day as birthday of one of her classmates, she doesn't really know it's their bday so whatever
In the middle of the party someone slips off that it was that persons bday and she sees that everybody in her class is in HER party, not theirs, and maybe a tiny flashback about Chloe remembering that the person was kinda upset when she invited them (maybe she screamed with that person for making an angry face when receiving the invitation and disinvited them too)
This could trigger her because since her mother never cared remember her birthdays, or use them to do some big event focused on herself and get contracts instead of caring about Chloe
Chloe makes her party became that persons bday party and maybe even buys a cake at the last minute, the person is happy but some random people do little jokes on Chloe because of her "Out of character" attitude, this makes her mad, she doesn't ruin the party for it but makes a little scene and goes to her room, she's upset because of her ego destroyed but is kinda happy because she prevent someone to feel "small" in their on bday
Interesting