Wheel Of Time S2 Episodes 7 REVIEW
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- Let's jump back into the Wheel of Time live action show, with season 2 episode 7!
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Correction: apparently we know from leaks that Elaida will be in season 3! They aren’t combining characters. I’ve been trying to avoid leaks but I don’t want to put false info out.
Oh that is very interesting to leave Elaida out till season 3, but I guess they wanted Linadrin to have more development.
Hold on, wasn’t Elaida already mentioned in the show itself?
That being said, Liandrin is definitely gonna be combined with Aliviarin or Galina (or both) and be the devil on Elaida's shoulder.
@@IvanPopovArt not by name, I don't think.
Also Rafe safe Liandrin is her own character, not a combination
Regarding Mat being the best friend (MILD BOOK SPOILERS BOOK 1): Even under the influence of the knife and semi-blind, hyper paranoid, he takes care of Rand when his channeling illness finally hits max. He steps up, schemes to get them a dry & warm place to stay, he gets water, he tries to find a wisdom, he nurses and watches over Rand the entire night (to the best of his ability, given neither of them have properly slept for too long) and defends him from a dark friend. Like, he is close to breaking himself, but when Rand NEEDS him, he steps up. He's always at his strongest when people need him and only looks unreliable for as long as people don't. At least that's how I see him.
This! I wish they fleshed out Mat as the mischievous, carefree rebel who is loyal when it counts. Matt, Rand and Perrin don't feel like best friends who grew up together in this show; they seem like acquaintances.
Matt's entire arc is him trying to be a selfish jerk and failing miserably at it. People always need him and he always answers, and he's always grumpy about it. I've still never forgiven the girls for the way they treated him when he rescued them.
Matt will always scheme to release a badger on the green while the girls dance but he'll also hang for his friends
A very good point sir.
Yes ... they have completely destroyed Mat's character to the point where he is unrecognizable. This is not the character that Robert Jordan wrote.
At first, I wasn't that impressed with the actress playing Lanfear, but in the last couple episodes she has really grown on me, and is becoming one of my favorites. The way she was just strolling through the foregate setting everything ablaze with a smirk on her face was fantastic, not to mention I absolutely loved the outfit she was wearing.
she's excellent in Peaky Blinders as well
@@robitaillecopeland1996yeah she really is. Big fan
Those boots she wore in the dream realm - they went on and on and ON!
I could not agree more. She is a scene stealer.
Lanfear wants a show and she's gonna GET it!
There's definitely not enough episodes. 10 would be better, and 12 would be ideal.
I've said this from the very start.
there's 5 seasons stop complaining. they could've made 12 40-minute episodes instead of an hour
They only have a budget for 8. And it is not as popular as the cash cow that is Game of Thrones.
@@minigiant8998 How is that a good thing? It's a 15 book series and is only getting 60 episodes. Meanwhile GoT got a season per book with 10 episodes each (excluding S7&8)
also, we're realistically only at the end of book 2 in terms of timeline. There's so much more that needs to happen, and we're already nearly 25% of the way through those 64 episodes (assuming we get 8 seasons... lol)
One reason why lanfear might not use gateways is that female channelers can see, copy, and recreate it.
She could use the True Power to do it though
@@jdiggitty Book Lanfear wouldn't though. Other than Ishy the other Forsaken avoid using the True Power as much as possible.
We're smart enough to think of that, but I really doubt the writers thought of that. Still, there were many ways to avoid that. Knock Moiraine out then Travel. Or...tell Rand to come with her if he wants to get to Falme and leave Moiraine behind to take the Ways with Lan. She didn't have to channel the weave right in front of her.
Or she could just invert the weaves
Not if she inverted the weave, which all the forsaken can do.
Lanfear carrying this show so hard this season they should give her a backpack as part of her costume. She's far and away the best part of the show.
Agree!! Fantastic actress and character
Hard agree
If you are a horny manbaby who's into generic fantasy female villains.
@@phalexxxx I am also hard... in agreement.
I agree shes my favorite in show so far. Its strange that show dosent have real black character so far.
Walking through the Ways with Lanfear is like walking into hell with Satan. They’ll crack jokes and lead the way but don’t pretend you’ve got any control.
Factz
Still cooler and more inspiring than the amyrlin
That makes sense in this episode but what about the earlier one when she stole a horse instead of using a gateway.
@@Mantose262because she has to know exactly where she is going? She can't just pop up in front of Rand and Moiraine lol.
@@berserker8884you seem to believe she has no weave to track both of them down. Weird take.
Siuan's signature 'crown of knives' weave is cool looking but 100% ineffective thus far. It is a good metaphor. That can be interpreted several ways 😅
Hahaha true!
I'm starting to feel like Aes Sedai fighting is turn-based. Ryma being allowed to tin-can a Suld'am was already bizarre, but Siuan just wasting time flaring up her knives in front of a bloody forsaken was downright ridiculous.
As for why Lanfear didn't create a gateway I assumed it was so Moiraine wouldn't learn it.
This
That would make sense as Lanfear is likely playing the long game and the slowest contemporary channelers discovers forgotten stuff, the longest she will have the upper hand.
This makes sense why she didn't make it at that particular moment at the end of an episode; she could, however, gateway directly into his cell and kill Moiraine and Leane (or at least intend to; she didn't know Rand would stop her).
This and it's more fun making a scene lol
@@matthi_be I haven't finished the last three books yet, but I'm pretty sure they use both
Idk what's happening since I haven't read the books, but it's just funny how moraine slowly opens a gate like it's a big thing, while Lanfear looks like she just opened her apartment door like it was a normal day.
I love how each person's channeling looks different; it was the juxtaposition of Rand and Moiraine's weaves that made me say 'Wow' this episode.
what we needed is like 50% more episodes.
nah then we would just have 50% more complaining
The larger issue is that the writers don’t know how to pace the show well enough to work with what they have. Multiple cuts in perspective, a lack of care for its central cast if they are not Nynaeve, Egwene, or Lanfear, and meddling plot lines that lead nowhere
Yep. I have said from the very beginning that it's clear Rafe and the writers have a good handle on the source material but they're forced to adapt in such a short time period that too much comes off as heavy handed or not as coherent as we'd like. It provides too many rough edges. We need MINIMUM 10 episodes, ideally 12.
I would agree except they consistently waste loads of screen time on pointless plot lines that feel like vanity projects. If Rafe had two more episodes, I'm not at all confident Rafe would use that time to improve the show unfortunately.
@@Tzoppo11 the entire Lan vs Moiraine shielding vs stilling plot line has nothing to do with the books, has done nothing useful for the show or it's characters and is the single most prominent plotline throughout season 2. If it wasn't there, imagine how much time you would have to let the other plotlines breath. A solid 10 minutes an episode, at least.
Really think about it.
I read the Siane and Moiraine looks at the end more as a driving home the fissure Siuan created with her absolute betrayal. It looks like Moiranes heart has been broken and Siuan looks regretful and abashed.
Me too.
So Siuan betrays Moraine in the show?
@@aaronstillwell9492in a way, she tries to keep Rand locked into the tower to Add Sedai can use the Dragon as a weapon. At least that was what she explicitly said this last episode. Idk if it will turn out to all be a play between her and Moiraine
@@yasielromero8236So in addition to shoehorning the two as alphabet people, they have turned Siuane into Elaida. F'ing unbelievable.
@@nathanmorgan3647 they canonically in the books were in a relationship as novices, this is not a a shoehorn. moraine is bisexual however
I think Moirane knew she couldnt fight Leanfear. She just saw siuan got blasted. She cant let Rand go with a Forsaken alone, so she tags along and hopefully has a plan.
True but couldn't she have paused for a moment to give Siuan Healing? Nothing extensive, but at least staunch the pain and maybe heal broken bones?
The rest of them would probably be there in a minute and time was of the essence 😊
Nobody ( because Rand is a baby dragon) can beat Lanfear.
Moiraine & Rand .. figured out Lanfear had planned everything that happened ... including Siuan turning of Moiraine.
They need time ... for Rand to level up ... and for lanfear to believe she's running the show.
There's no plan. This Moiraine hasn't had a plan since the first couple episodes.
@@abelincoln8885exactly rand has just practically come into his powers this season and started channelling siuan was a fool and betrayed moriaine at least she wants to train him she wants him to be free keeping him locked up would be worse for them he would just destroy them all when he comes to his power and resent them. Moriaine wants to do it the right way and help him level up to become the most powerful it will take some time but she and he along with lan can train him.
Did you catch that Egwene was braiding her hair? Putting on that Two Rivers resolve.
Loved that
@@dalgron It was so casual, but I caught the significance immediately, especially for Egwene.
This is just my personal headcannon but I think Lanfear by this point is aware of the fact that the channelers of this Age do not know how to perform Traveling, so she is intentionally not using it in order to keep the fact that she can use it a secret. Like, it's not even about hiding the weaves so this age Channelers cant learn it from her on accident, but literally just "If they don't think I know it, they wont plan for it and that is an advantage I can use later."
Completely agree
Agreed I think it's obvious that she has traveled a few times which is how she likely got mat to falme in an hour, and back in time to help rand. As well as where she eventually went after moirane lost her in the forrest.
Wow great point.
That makes no sense, the Aes Sedai know about travelling. They know people knew how to do it during the age of legends, what they don't know is how to do it. Any Aes Sedai with half a brain cell is going to assume the forsaken can travel.
@@alexphilips6335 The Aes Sedai of this spin of the Wheel do not know about tying off weaves, so let's not go assuming that they're aware of Traveling just because it's that way in the books.
Although I think S2 has been a step up from S1, I was pretty displeased with this episode. Hopefully the finale is better. I do want to bring up one thing Daniel did not that particularly bothered me.
The scene between Rand and Lan at the start was very good, and I particularly appreciated how it ended with one of my favorite book quotes: "Whatever comes, face it on your feet." However, I feel its impact in the show was drastically undercut by the decision to have Rand spend essentially the rest of the episode on his knees. I agree with Siuan easily shielding him, but Rand should have at least TRIED to stand back up. People like to focus on Egwene's will and inner strength; Rand has a fair amount of that also. Rand on his knees, making no effort to DO anything (successful or not), doesn't fit who he is and feels like careless writing to me (Lan had JUST told him to face whatever comes on his feet). It just makes it hard for me to have confidence in any of the major changes, particularly for Rand, Mat, and Siuan.
There were other things I disliked as well, but to avoid being too negative, I'll close with with this: Madeleine Madden (and the writers) have done an incredible job portraying how the Seanchan treat women who can channel. And in my opinion show Liandrin is much better and more compelling than book Liandrin.
Spot on
Meh. He is completely untrained and unprepared. Book Rand before Falme would likely not be much different. I get where you are coming from but I suspect that the payoff on that is pretty strong in Episode 8
I would argue that Rand at this moment in time is still very Raw and emotional as well as not being too sure with his new powers yet. And so for me, it actually makes sense how little he reacts when shielded. He hasn't got the strength and force of will that he has later on - as I recall Rand at this time is full of self doubt and fear and probably doesn't need too much to push him over an emotional cliff.
Yes. The scene in the book was much more powerful. He exerts his will- that 2 Rivers stubbornness.
its because the directer has said previously that he is going to impose his feminist views into the wheel of time, hence the strong women everywhere that get 80% of the screen time, and the neutering of rand, matt, and perrin.
Daniel: "I like that Episode 7 shows how valuable experience as a One Power-user is."
Me, an Episode 8 viewer: lmao
I think what the main problem with this show is how few episodes per season there are. It feels like they're rushing it a bit.
Not a bit, A lot.
@@ILoveManCity. Yeah, I was just being nice saying only a bit.
Yeah I mean 8 episodes would be short for a single book, never mind 2 in one
I both agree and disagree. The show could benefit from more episodes(it might be better for to have 12-13 40 minute episodes).
But also this show has so much unnecessary content, that should have been cut. All of the Liandrin backstory scenes could be cut and all that would be lost is sympathy for a villain. The pacing of the show is already very slow and
more time would likely make that worse. I feel like the writers need to do more with the time they’re given first and foremost
Agree 100%. Been saying this show needs 10-12 episodes at least per season since they first mentioned the 8 episode count. :-/
Honestly think they made it temperate because of just how good the de-aging looked haha. Still loved the episode, some really great moments.
Sword on Back, headband trope man still looks like ridiculous cosplay. His hair literally never moves and his little tiara is never even tilted. I guess they have supernatural mousse in this "turning of the Wheel".
episode 7 is like watching something on double speed, everyone just plot conveniently *flickers ;)* to Falme without anything making sense
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. Fast travel isn't supposed to be happening until much later in the series, then it ramps up more gradually rather than going straight to traveling. In this case, though, there's simply no in between to justify traveling at some future point. Maybe I missed something, but the scene with the fade nailed up should have been pretty close to the spine of the world. The next village they stop in is close enough to Toman Head for a Seanchan force to invade?
no shade, but hearing about the constant mental gymnastics required from fans of the books in order to... like? excuse? allow? all the character-centered, tonal and narrative changes in the adaptation leave me exhausted. There's a difference between being a enthusiastic fan and selective blindness
Dan even admitted to being flown to Utah to have a "genuine reaction" to the finale with the lead producers. His channel's audience are really being made for fools.
I wanna know how many times the writers tried to knock ppl out to progress the story. I bet they tried multiple but only got a few through. 😂 cause they sure love it.
It’s not a huge deal but it is funny and not very good writing
Also House of Dragon did that night filter thing too. Idk who decided to start using it but I hate it
They're trying to replace all RJs spanking with knock-outs.
It's a screen-time saver, that's all. They can't be bothered with transitions.
Day for Night is what it's called
It is literally to get someone from point A to Point B... and it makes the characters look horribly vulnerable and pathetic every time. They also struggle to show passage of time cohesively and their reuse of sets in Tar Valon is criminal. They have reused the hallway that apparently leads from the 4th floor to STREET level (weird logistics given lack of stairs) an absurd number of times without even TRYING to disguise it.
@@Dooger414 did they reuse the Tar Valon throne room for the Cairhien throne?
Watching lanfear casually stroll through the village blowing things up made me chuckle. One of my favorite characters/actress of the show thus far. Madeleine and Natasha deserve awards for their roles this season.
Ishamael wasn't wrong when he pointed out that she lacks subtlety. How easy would it have been for her to sneak inside the city, grab Rand and disappear with him.
Rand got a lot of people killed by asking for Lanfears help. If a channel sees a weave they have chance at copying it, she doesn't want to give the weave away this early in the game.
Okay Okay Okay. I'm Back with my favourite line of the episode. "Is this a sex thing...or a murder thing. Cause either way I'd prefer you skip the talking"
Overall I think I've finally realized why this episode kind of lacked (I have a few disagreements for the first time with Daniel). The music almost always doesn't have a beat in it. Its a held piano note anytime they want to bring tension. They don't have theme's for the forsaken or for rand or anyone.
To me, this period of Egwene should be powerless. The fact that she could speak down to her suldam (or re-braid her hair) to me shows she's not broken and she needs to be broken here. I felt everything they did right to her character last episode meant nothing because of this one. I honestly don't know how this period in her life can be seen as PTSD invoking in the future. The weakness, is what gives her strength later on. To never be collared by another again and we should see the effects of last episode for seasons. This is the BIGGEST failing in writing and plot I think I've seen so far in the series to date.
Every part of Lanfear this episode I disliked. If Lanfear wanted to cause a scene instead of flicking fire she would erupt a quarter of the lower city in an instant. She would be more visible not just to those running from her. She is not Selene.
In contrast I'm actually really okay with what they're doing Moiraine and Siuan. I believe I remember some Aes Sedai in the book saying that when you hold the source you won't feel the cold. So I'm not totally against them simplifying this. I agree with Daniel on Lan finally getting some really good quality air time this episode.
I am getting tired of "we don't know how to get a character to their next plot point so lets knock them out and introduce a new character" There are so many ways for characters in the story to become aware of new characters (by culture, by habits. I mean this episode was called the game of houses and there was little nuance to this episode at all) and I feel like this while needed to fix plot points, is getting tiring.
The last thing that Daniel didn't comment on is the world of dreams. Lanfear while being a master, doesn't mean anything if we don't see what a babe Rand is within the world of dreams at this stage. There's no changing of cloaks or scenery. There is so much world building that can be done here. Flickers of feeling being manifest is such an easy way to explain things and its just being completely gazed over.
🤘🤘
Great points across the board, especially about Egwene. One thing they did last episode that really conveyed the torment was a mere thought in her head and she felt pain immediately. She should have been in agonizing pain, but if they pull something where she is able to break herself free by her resolve. I dont know but that will be extremely disappointing. My guess is that Elayne being astute at figuring out Ter'Angreal will be what saves them. This would make sense given her talent later in the books.
As great as the end of EP7 was with the Yellow Aes Sedai pancaking the sul'dam, her damane should have been exploding from the pain as well. There are these great moments where they are doing a good job of explaining the systems to the non-book readers, but then there are times where they just skip all the rules. It is easy to arm chair quarterback the show. I am just happy it is being done better than I hoped, but I think ultimately there need to be more episodes.
You get what you get and like it. Daniel Greene likes the show because it is Wheel of Time and you may as well get on board. What you are describing is something writer's do... these writers don't need deep analysis to get where they are going. They just need a character to be knocked out and they can transport them anywhere!
@@Dooger414 I like the show especially season 2. I was just pointing out I have a problem with somethings different to Daniel for the first time. No part of that was an attack on Daniel or an attack of the show. I watched a non-book reader review as well and they correctly pointed out that because Egwene was able to keep her name she never felt fully broken. We see that this episode in her defiance. As "never being collared" again is a MAJOR motivator for Egwene and why she makes so many sacrifices in the future I felt like this really really needed to handled better. Egwene feels now more as if what the suldam are doing is not right fundamentally, but she seems to understand their justice and wants to bring them to their own ideas of justice. The Egwene from the books is violated until she's a husk. She's young (18) and never really had a reason to fight back (even during Winternight, someone else had been there to handle the situation). I was in awe of last weeks Egwene's plot line. This week I am saddened. If they treat Rand in a box like this I might cry. Will I continue to watch it, yeah. Will I feel like they did Jordan justice. Well, sadly, no.
Hey, they _do_ have themes for the forsaken, and especially, Rand. The Dragon Reborn theme plays everytime Rand's on screen and something important is happening.
I could see Mat pulling back when he sees Egwene as a damane. He has reason to interact with her in that capacity, and it would definitely cause him to completely and immediately rebel against Ishamael. In fact, I could see him blowing the horn inside of the palace instead of outside the city because it would be a very exciting 'spit in the face of the shadow' moment.
oh yea there's literally zero chance he's not blowing the horn.
Have you seen the show? The boys have done absolutely nothing productive. They'll probably give the moment to Ewgwene. @@robzs8388
If this show made any f'ing sense, the darkfriends would have already blown the horn and bound the heroes of the past to the shadow's cause. F'ing unbelievable.
@@nathanmorgan3647they can't. it has to be blown from need. if they don't need to be saved then they cannot blow it. the book is explicit in this
. Oh that is right. Still, it has been 30 years since i read the book and I am still 1000% more accurate than the idiots getting paid to read it and put it on screen. Book was pretty explicit about where it was found and by whom and they f'ed that up pretty bad.
This could actually be a really good angle to take with Egwene since we're going to get drastically compressed time with each character in the show vs the books. I actually LIKE that writing change.
Almost all of Eqwene's best moments in the books are when she wakes up and chooses violence. When she gets the collar off, the attack on the White Tower, The Last Battle....Egwene is a berserker. True Green Ajah.
I'd really like to see good use of that element of her personality. All the bad guys have a plan until Egwene gets mad.
Haha yes she is eventually but that is balanced by wisdom and resourcefulness that she gains throughout her different experiences with the Seanchan, the Aiel and her careful observations of Tower politics and manoeuvring
You don't ever need to justify excellence. This show needs a lot of justification.
This channel's host is literally flying to Utah to sit with the producers for a "genuine" reaction. Dan is fully compromised as a reliable source.
@Dooger414 he is indeed - he's clearly and irrationally biased against the show since last season
lmao your inability to appreciate just how critical he's being of this show is genuinely amusing.@@Dooger414
@@csarmii or maybe he just wasn't genuinely impressed by it? Not every person who doesn't love the show is a hater (or a "bookcloak"). I'm happy there is people who enjoy it a lot, and i do think season 2 is a big step up from season 1, but i still find the writing in this show often very weak. The fact that i see every single episode people having to somehow guess how certain characters suddenly know some things, without any real previous hints, or how they arrived somewhere, is not encouraging (and it's not like they are supposed to be mysteries). I really hope this finale will be good, and that since they said season 3 will be more faithful to the 4th book things will be smoother going on.
@@bluelight17 I'm thinking both.
Rand removing Moraine's shield must have been Rafe's way of truly bonding Moraine to Rand. I mean if someone does that for you, it's a good way to secure your loyalty.
Moiraine was always going to be loyal to Rand though, she devoted her life to finding him and she knows more than most that him succeeding is necessary for the entire universe to exist, and that without him the yare all doomed.
I loved these past 2 episodes.
This whole season has really been a huge step up in my opinion.
I just had one question after watching the episode, Why did any of Aes Sedai not try to fight/stop Lanfear when she was openly destroying foregate? Alanna & co. specifically mentioned Lanfear probably being in the city, there were more than 14 Aes Sedai in the city and still Lanfear just casually walks directly to the waygate. IMO it would have been more impactful if Lanfear fought and defeated a group of AS rather than just beating Amyrlin Seat
Because they presumably don't read the scripts they wrote 😂
The three of them following her into the way gate reminded me of the kind of writing in Game of Thrones when a certain group of people were sent beyond the wall to get a sample of the dead...
I thought they'd try with their linked circle but instead they acted as a fire brigade. And why make lanfear use air on siuan? That's an accepted's trick being used by a forsaken against an amyrlin. Disappointing
eww no this was and is decidedly more interesting. Imperfect though it most definitely is, it is LEAGUES better (Se2 is anyway) than the piece of shit that was Se7-8 in GoT @@ryanbonnett324
Fully agree. When Siuan asked the other AS to connect to her on the bridge, I noticed many new faces - I was sure that those won't survive the fight against Lanfear.
(and they all conected just to make some rain which was also quite dissapointing 🤔)
The problem with the whole Lan and Rand mentor scene is that it just makes book readers go Ooh! This is like in the book! He mentioned sword forms! But none of it has been earned! There has been no mentor/student relationship so it makes no sense. And the whole thing with Rand being the most powerful but Suin puts him down is also stupid because they keep saying he’s the most powerful but he’s done nothing to show it! Absolutely nothing! Nothing awesome! When Suin says she wishes the Dragon was a girl, I’m like obviously Rafe! No guys do anything cool on this show except for Lan doing some cool fighting in one episode of the first season and then the hunters of the Horn in the second of this season. That’s it
I really dislike the show, but great hunt rand or even book 3 rand probably wouldnt have been able to handle siuan. She was pretty strong before being stilled, not to mention super experienced.
Look, it's possible they're showing the weaknesses of a matriarchal society so that it can be brought into better balance. The aes sedai need to treat men better and Rand will show them why. Moiriane failed at the eye, siuan couldn't stop them leaving with a forsaken, and it was Lan who asked Logan about men's weaves to help moiriane. Thing is, those are mostly Rand's story beats in the books being shared out and leaving him with less.
@@alexphilips6335 I agree. It would just work better if they had showed him be powerful and then she shuts him down, but all they’ve done is tell with no show. So if you’re just watching the show with no book knowledge it’s like ok big deal. She shut down the guy that gets put down by anyone with power, or at the least has done nothing amazing with his power, while the others (Egwene, Moraine, etc.) have all done amazing things from the first season on to this one
@testsignupagain7449 The show has basically crippled Rands story. In book 1 and book 2 rand is basically 80%+ of the books pov. We get to see him grow, learn responsibility, leadership, honor and even great fighting ability (his archery feats and using the flame) but all of this was scrapped and now we have defenseless rand who is basically the same character who left two rivers cause he went from 80% pov to maybe 20% if not less.
I dread to think what rafe will do with rand on the books he is about 10% of the pov, guess we won't see him for the whole season then.
I haven’t read the books since college, which is a long time ago, but did the show intentionally nerf Rand? Or does it seem that way because they’re combining books 2 & 3? Also I feel that IF they let Mat blow the horn, which they probably won’t, non book readers will have no clue who it summons. LOTR explained the army of the dead better in like 5 minutes!
They've massively nerfed Rand. He's not the main character and spends his entire time being led by others. They've done nothing to establish his power or his capacity to be a great leader.
Of course they nerfed Rand into next Tuesday, I'm not even sure why it would be a surprise at this point.
@@arrows3576 if he isn't the one to defeat Ishy next episode, then I'm done.
@@undertone8367 He wasn't leading anyone until book 4, he was still a dumb kid running away from his problems for the first 3 books.
@@beefcake8821 The only book rand was really running from anything was eye of the world, he kinda just followed moraine. Book 2 and 3 were the exact opposite of running away. I mean for the entirety of book 3 Rands whole goal was to fulfill one of the prophecies or die trying.
A really nice touch, for those of us of a certain age, was the casting of Hayley Mills as Moirane’s blind mentor in the prologue. For those who are unfamiliar, Hayley Mills was a child actress who starred in several Disney films of the 1960’s, and was incredibly popular. She has aged very beautifully and it was a great surprise in a show I didn’t love the first season of but now dread the finale to- a complete and happy turnabout.
omg that was Hayley Mills? I watched the parent trap all the time as a kid.
Lanfear specifically confirming in the finale that she didn't want Moraine to see a gateway is why people should: first, wait before judging; and second, give the writers more credit
About the cold open, we also need to consider that in the show they’re already full sisters, if Junior ones (given moraine’s baby sister is in her 60s). That would color their interaction with gitara sedai differently than if they were accepted like in the books.
You can't be a "junior" sister at 60, which is how old they're supposed to be by then according to the show timeline. That didn't work at all.
@@bidossessi that is very true, this change was very forced and did not work at all imo either for the show as a whole. But in the episode, they simply say the Amyrlin sent them to get her. If the amyrlin gives an order, I suspect the 60yo Aes Sedai may feel pretty junior :D And she calls them sisters, so I guess I can let this pass.
@@blackparody07 sure. I'm less forgiving of the whole giddy teenager routine right before that, but at this point... ,🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
@@bidossessi @danielgreenereviews yes that was a bit undercutting their own changes to the story.
You mean Lanfear walking through a city FULL OF AES SEDAI, and not encountering a single one or the slightest resistance even tho she should be a shining beacon for them to find.
I really, reaaally dislike what they did to Mat and Min as characters. They lost their personalities.
100%. I mean imagine, given with what we had to work with, if Min and Mat ended up running into Aludra and introducing the Illuminator's Guild. And instead of Lanfear wrecking Cairhien to "save" Rand, it was Mat and Min instead? Mat sees all these Aes Sedai come into town, says his characteristic "Screw these Aes Sedai and their plots and Dragons, I'm out!". He goes to leave the city and runs into Lan, finds out Rand is held prisoner. Mat and Min work with Lan on a plan, and Mat starts a fire in the Illuminator Chapter House (in the books it was Rand and Loial) as a distraction. More source material, more Mat development.
Siuan should have been part of the plan too. It wouldn't have changed anything if she really did give Verin those orders, and she could have played ignorant and still appeared to all Aes Sedai she was doing it by the book. Ya know instead of turning her Elaida-like. Then Mat could have been there going through the Ways with Rand, Lan, and Moiraine and we'd never have to use the lame "knocked out wake up somewhere else" plot device to get Mat to Falme.
What's especially frustrating is that Mat and Min didn't need the tragic backstories they were given. Mat had wonderful parents that loved him, and were respected in their community. Min was raised by her aunts, who were overbearing, but ultimately positive influences on Min. It does nothing for Mat and Min to tear down other characters to give them this dull facsimile of depth.
Mat was barely even a character at this point in the books. Relax, give them some time.
And Min was only in like 2 or 3 chapters before this.
There's plenty of time for them to grow into the characters we love.
@@Maxavian Its fun to make up your own storylines but there are so many things that doesnt make sense. Why will Min help Rand and Mat come together after asking him to stay away from him? Also it is clear that just asking Mat to stay away has cost her a lot so not sure why she will be risking it more to help them specially when a foresaken is in play.
Why will anyone trust Mat to help after his stunt last season? At this point nobody has any reason to work with Mat specially Moiraine since she was the one who set the Red ajah on him.
There is so much that is lacking with Mat at this point that such fancy team up to redeem himself wont work. He has to come up and do something on his own so that people will atleast care that he exists.
I agree on that Siuan part that there were better ways to handle her motivations and actions instead of the one they went with.
@@davids182they completely changed the core of both characters. There’s no changing their new back stories. Both came from loving families, and their values were apparent because of this. They are now both raised by scumbags and that is telling in their values and actions already. That changes everything.
Angry "Wamen"(?) in thumbnail looks so Strong(tm), so Brave(tm), so Cosplay(tm).
HARD disagree on your brief, not even mentioned thought on the scene at the end between Moiraine and Siuan. That was THE most horrendous, awful garbage-tier writing I've ever seen. Well-acted, but hardly well-earned or executed. Two characters that ostensibly love each other, and Siuan's going to take away Moiraine's consent? Her will? Nah, fuck that. It's writing if you explained juxtaposition to a 6th grader. "Ohh no look at how similar the Seanchan and the Aes Sedai are, ooh noooo". It's a beat that I do not even remotely buy from these two characters who have such a close relationship.
Furthermore, I have despised Moiraine's plotline this season, but this scene throws all of the suffering through her scenes (and Lan's indirectly) in the garbage. "Moiraine, you should learn to trust people." "Okay, after an entire season of not trusting people, I will learn this lesson. I trust you, Rand." Only to IMMEDIATELY have her consent robbed by the person she SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TRUST ABOVE ANYONE ELSE? Nah. This is incompetence. Even putting aside the books, just within the context of these characters in the show, this was character assassination. Like, the red flags were there in s1 when Siuan had Moiraine swear that oath, but to see it brought to fruition here in this way is beyond infuriating. And all for some 6th grade-tier comparison between the Seanchan and the Aes Sedai "Oooh we're not so different you and I".
I would be upset about this scene if Moiraine and Siuan weren't lovers, but the fact that they have that deep a relationship shatters any suspension of disbelief I might have otherwise maintained. This scene was awful, the worst scene in the entire show.
in reference to your experience beats power idea, there is an idea in athletics, "Strength beats weakness, speed beats power, timing beats speed" Feels like this is very much alive in Robert Jordan's world.
I feel this is the episode that finally asks the question "What if we just disregard all of the books, like, completely?". Plot lines, character choices and time skips that don't make any sense at all. One of the weakest episodes so far, IMO. Only s01e08 was worse.
He cannot be made a dark friend! That would absolutely destroy the show . But I doubt they will do that . He’s to loved
Even though I agree that it kind of made no sense for Lanfear to strut through Falme blowing stuff up, the performance was SO GOOD that I couldn't help but enjoy the hell out of it! It was so effortless that it could literally be out of sheer boredom that she did this way. You always make SUCH good points. Thanks for doing these reviews!
To be fair, Ishmael did point out a few episodes back that subtlety was never Lanfear's strong suit.
One thing I regret abt Lanfear/Selene in this interpretation, even tho the actress is excellent, is that we didn't get book Selene. Bc her gaslighting was just so goddamned fun to watch.@@barbiquearea
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by this episode. After 2 great episodes in a row I let myself start to have hope for the series. Enter Moraine and Lan being happy to just follow Lanfear, Lan all of a sudden being an expert in male channeling, and Rand being taken down and held captive by a single Aei Sedai. Not to mention this show taking every opportunity to make us hate Mat. To me this episode was a perfect reminder of just how uneven this series has been. There's moments and episodes that are genuinely great, but then there's other scenes and episodes that have me questioning what the writers and Rafe are thinking. I really want the show to be good, and I just hope we get more consistency in the episode quality.
I was uplifted by certain bits and initially fooled by the quick pace. But on reflection, this is a large step backwards. But that's because they crammed at least two episodes worth of plot into it. And that was what killed Season One.
I’m pretty sure Rafe cares nothing but what he wants in his head to come to screen. He’s STARVING to write his story so badly he is willing to shit all over a great story and plot. I really really REALLY do not like him. When asked about the changes and he said BECAUSE I CAN. Made me disgusted w his very existence. That’s the most childish selfish spoiled STUPID response anyone could give for anything. Like refusing to give any reason at all other than BECAUSE I CAN. NL made me hate him completely. I can’t stand looking at him or hearing him speak. Sorry rant over but he’s a childish dickhead imo
I had a similar reaction initially but it has grown on me. What choice exactly did Moiraine and Lan have? The show has excellently shown how powerful Lanfear is and they literally cannot stay. The weak Rand thing can easily have good payoffs later. I also disagree with quite a bit but Season 2 is light years better than Season 1. I honestly believe that the show changed behind the scenes around Episode 5.
My feelings exactly!
Meh, Lan figuring it out had nothing to do with channeling, it was because moraine hadn't lost hope and he had a hunch from there not a big jump imo. Rand literally has had zero training so him getting taken down makes sense and just sets him up for the big reveal when he does go full rand power wise (hopefully) and gives us a comparison in power levels. Mat, I agree, has been handled so so so poorly but also it's clearly setting up for a redemption arc so, if handled well, could be cool and satisfying.
Well seeing as Moiraine’s little sister looks like she’s at least 70, 20 years ago she’d have to be at least 50+ and already Aes Sedai. I think that’s why they weren’t waiting on anyone, plus they were both wearing blue, not Accepted dresses. I guess they’re just trying to show just how old Aes Sedai are and you can be around 100 and look middle aged.
Like they haven't best that age thing over our heads every episode. I feel like every 2nd line is someone remarking how old moraine is yet she looks younger than her "younger sister"
Their behaviour was oddly juvenile for 50ish Aes Sedai walking off a battlefield.
This is not Wheel of Time. Anyone who read the books and truly appreciated Jordan's work knows this. This is literally fan fiction using the names of characters but changing who those characters are, what they do, what their motivations are, what their virtues and faults are, where they go, and what they accomplish. I'm serious ... this is not even close to the books. Let's review a few notable points of insanity that spring to mind:
1.) Min being a quasi-darkfriend? Are you serious? Min was one of the most amazing, loyal, and virtuous people in the book. And she was IN LOVE with Rand. She literally sticks with him through everything because she cares about him so much. THEY HAVE NOT EVEN MET in the show.
2.) Ishamael holding and comforting Mat .... that's something we didn't know we needed. BUT WE GOT IT.
3.) Mat's ENTIRE NARRATIVE does not happen in the books. Do people understand this? Literally NOTHING they have had Mat do in this show happens in the books. This is a complete re-writing of his character, his arc, his placement, his motivations. This is a different character.
4.) Rand sleeping with Lanfear and working in an insane asylum: Again, this literally is NOT IN THE BOOKS. Firstly, Rand does rescue Selene (Lanfear) and she subsequently tries to latch on to him because she wants to manipulate him and transform him into the man she loved in a past Age. But Rand NEVER sleeps with her as he is in love with other women. And who are those other women ? Min, Elayne, and Aviendha ... three characters who have NOT EVEN MET Rand in the show. Secondly ... Rand NEVER works in an insane asylum in order to learn from Logain. How does Rand learn how to master male channeling? A lesser Forsaken (who is not even in the show) is forced (with Lanfear's help) to teach him more advanced weaves. Rand literally has a bound Forsaken as a side-kick and learns so many weaves that he is a match for anyone in the world. He learns how to portal, how to block himself from attacks, how to fight, how to do weaves that modern day power users could not even dream of. Does that sound like the Rand that we see in the show? Also ... Rand eventually does spend time with Logain, but that is later in the books when Logain can channel again and joins with Rand. Literally what we are watching is NOT THE STORY.
5.) Moiraine's treatment of Lan in this show is cruel, absurd, toxic, and destructive. Their relationship in the books was one of the most amazing, beautiful, strong, and meaningful examples of two people working together ... of men and women working together .... to accomplish great and important things. They make Moiraine look like a toxic, emotionally abusive ex who literally ghosts Lan after 20 years together. This is a complete destruction of their relationship in the books, the respect and love they had for each other, and of Moiraine's character. The Moiraine in the books was always firm, strong, purposed, disciplined, and ethical. She was never cruel, heartless, dismissive, and unethical. They completely destroyed her character.
6.) The great, moral equalizing that is taking place in this show is truly evil. The direct push to make all the good characters "morally grey" while making all the bad characters have "reasons" and "motivations" for why they are bad literally serves one purpose: to utterly blur the line between good and evil. I don't care about the motivations of mass murderers, domestic abusers, or Dark Lords who want to enslave fictional worlds. They are all EVIL.
7.) To further the above point, Liandrin's son literally doesn't exist in the books. She is a power-hungry, evil person who wants to become more powerful than the Forsaken. She literally wants to be this age's Chosen. Instead they make her nothing more than a misunderstood, reluctant person who just wants to save her boy, no matter what. Ridiculous. And we do realize that Liandrin ... a SIDE CHARACTER ... has more screen time than Rand, who is the MAIN CHARACTER??
What Amazon is doing to Wheel of Time is nothing short of a complete re-writing of the story. Which is unbelievably audacious considering the masterpiece it already was and how popular it remains. A comparable example would be if Peter Jackson took the Lord of the Rings and changed the story such that Sam was an unreliable, selfish dolt who Frodo could not rely on, Gandalf was Theodin's old flame, Aragorn didn't want to defeat Sauron but instead made deals with him, the Ring was not introduced as a plot point until the Two Towers, and we spent massive amounts of screen time delving into Sauron's sad backstory to make him more relatable, while also following the story arc of Pippin and an elf named Elendriel who was not a character in the books but instead was created and given more screen time then the main characters.
If Jackson did THAT to Lord of the Rings, it would then be on par with what Amazon has done too Wheel of Time. I'm not a hater. I'm just someone who has had Jordan's books on my shelf since I was a child.
Can you help me, I thought Rand was the dragon, and he was very powerful. He seems pretty weak here. Is that what happens in the books? When does he become this powerful Dragon Reborn? Also, are there any male Aiel? Are the women warriors in Aiel culture? Thanks if you can help fill in blanks for me.
@@ahmorgan Hey :)
To start with, Rand is not incredibly powerful in the early part of the story, no. This is because he starts off not even being aware of who and what he is. He is a sheepherder from the Two Rivers ... a "country boy," as it were. This is something that keeps him quite grounded and humble early on, as he goes through the process of discovering his power and destiny. He resists the temptation of becoming an arrogant, power-hungry, abusive, and cruel ruler (something that Lanfear tries to entice him to embrace) and still see's himself as a simple sheepherder. There is an excellent story arc here, in his development. Because he does change when he realizes his full potential, but then is able to regain his humble heart and perspective.
So initially, he is untested, unsure of himself, and weak when it comes to using the One Power, as one would expect. But as time goes on, he becomes stronger and more capable, both in that there are women who teach him, male channelers that teach him, and Lan who teaches him how to be a skilled sword fighter. So he does become a far more capable and confident character than how they are portraying him in the show. That takes time, however. And I get the sense that the show will always make him seem weak and uncertain, if not simply foolish, for the entirety of the show. In the books, however, Rand becomes unbelievably competent and strong and does things that would blow the reader's mind. I won't spoil it, but it is utterly amazing. He is a game-changer, not just another "dragon."
With regards to the Aiel, the Aiel society is comprised of men and women just like any other society. Both the men and women fight with lethal efficiency. The society is not all female at all. In the books, Perrin does indeed save a captured Aiel warrior. But it is a man named Gaul and the two become friends and comrades. In the show, however, they have Perrin save Aviendha, who is literally not even in this situation in the books. Rather, Rand and Aviendha eventually meet one another and fall in love. Aviendha is also a channeler of the One Power.
I hope that clears some things up :)
@@Arcanon10 thanks a lot! It does clear things up. I watched season 1 and was patiently awaiting to see how powerful the Dragon reborn is due to Nyneave and Egwene destroying an entire army with those other Aei Sedai (probably spelled this wrong). When he was shielded so easily I was disappointed, but what you described makes sense in the context of the entire story. Rand hasn't had much training yet so if there's a 3rd season maybe we'll get a glimpse at his true potential. Thanks again!
One thing I noticed is that after Rand asks for help, she is now wearing gray. In relation to Rand and Moiraine she is now more neutral and it's already hinted that she will betray Ishy. Does she further help them and then show up in white? I find show Lanfear absolutely amazing. Maybe to the point of being one of the best characters on TV. She has such a screen presence in this show. She towers over Moiraine and Siuan. She is truly terrifying. Not many show characters every really get to the truly terrifying level but she has. I loved the Anaevere plot. I still say something changed behind the scenes around episode 5 in terms of approach and writing of the show. That said I am with you with the wavering 6. Depending on how they land Episode 8 it could go up to an 8 ish or down to a 4
Another episode where the writers are destroying my favorite characters. They make Mat have visions of his evil prior lives, and then move closer to the shadow. This comes after he repeatedly betrays all his friends.
Then Rand gets shielded, and just sits and cries about it, rather than standing on his feet. Then he begs a forsaken for help, resulting in many deaths. Also, he has to channel to see Moiraine’s shield, but apparently Logain can see it even after he has been gentled.
I really wish they show runners would stop tearing down the greatest characters in the series, while they simultaneously defend and moralize dark friends like Liandrin and Ishamael.
Did they just stop asking Brandon Sanderson for advice? I thought he was consulting on the series, but I can’t imagine that after watching it.
Having been a fan of fantasy all of my life, I had still never read the Wheel of Time series. I definitely wasn’t impressed with season one. But I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and continue watching. I am now halfway through the first book and enjoying it. I am listening to the audio version with Rosamund Pike narrating. I am also finding season two to be a big improvement over season one. Your reviews of the episodes have become the ones that I want to listen to. I’m really looking forward to seeing your upcoming episode with Brandon Sanderson.
You are better than me.
I could not stand Robert Jordan's writing style; too much description of the environments.
Maybe it cause I started the fantasy genre with Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive series.
@Pooh0Bear8 I can totally see where that gets tedious for you, but as fsr as fantasy goes, Jordan's descriptions are far from the worst. If that bothers you as much as it seems to, whatever you do, don't attempt Tolkein.... Also, great choice with the Sotrmlight Archives! Sanderson sets the bar high. And he's great at worldbuilding only when necessary, which is inherently more engaging in the moment.
The head nod for Verin Sedai made me smile.
Matt is gonna get Rand's epiphany on the mountaintop in AMOL. Even the philosophy that Ishy was sharing with Mat is similar to what Rand was thinking on the mountaintop.
The salvation in "let whosoever blows me think not of glory but of salvation" will also be Mat's mental salvation.
"let whosoever blows me think not of glory but of salvation" - I get odd looks from my wife when I quote that...
I really love what theyre doing with Verin. Out of all the characters she seems to act most book-like in the new situations the show changes give us.
OMG I am loving Verin. Easily one of my favorite characters in every book she's in. Lol. Her phrasing in this episode to get Leane away without lying was absolute perfection. ^_^ Cannot wait to see the rest of her storylines play out.
@@PaladinGaymer Umm...she lied about Siuan telling her to replace Leane. That cat is out of the bag...about 10 books too soon.
@@paulkelly2701 She didn't though. She said that Leane's strength would be needed to defend the city. True. She was told to watch the boy. True. And she was giving Leane and order. True. It's EXTREMELY close to the line, but she didn't actually lie at any point. It's fully showcasing the way Aes Sedai can use words and Moiraine comments to that.
@@PaladinGaymer She said Siuan sent her. False.
@@paulkelly2701 That isn't what she said. She said that the Amyrlin needed her strength. Verin never said a name or an untrue statement.
Getting to see Lanfear be hot and mean is my favorite part of season 2
Natasha is aiming for gay icon status for sure. Completely over the top and extra in the best ways.
Rand asks for Lanfear's help with Moraine's full knowledge, that's what that look was about between them when she said (paraphrased) they (the Forsaken) won't want you to be in Aes Sedai chains. Moraine wants Lanfear to come get him, it's not clear why, but that's why they all leave together into the ways. She has some plan in mind.
Not a book reader here. But I think the antagonists in this series are single handedly saving this show. Natasha O'Keeffe, Fares Fares and Jennifer Cheon Garcia are superb at making us hate/fear their character. There's nothing better that cheering on your heroes to triumph over the villains. Certainly better than faceless CG monsters which at this point we've seen all to often and is hard to care about. If this show fails, at least the costume design and make up department should at least win an Emmy for their effort!
Personally I haven't finished the series yet (I've read the first four books) and I must admit that I like the Forsaken much more in the series. Imo Lanfear is pretty much the same in both books and series (I find her scary in both of them) but tbh Ishamael wasn't so interesting in the books although he is described as being soo powerful.
Btw I love that they chose someone with a middle eastern background for Ishamael because his name reminds me a lot of Ismail, a common arabic/turkish name. Hope they're gonna do the same for another Forsaken whose name also resembles a common arabic/turkish name.
So well said!! They're so good, they even make you root for them, which perfectly underlines the temptation of evil
In a great narrative, the adversaries are always initially stronger, smarter, more experienced and very ruthless. The point is to grow the hero to finally defeat them. Most modern narratives give us mealy-mouthed villains of no particular interest. WoT, for all its warts, at least has this bit correct and I applaud it.
It's strange the scene between Suian and Moiraine made me draw parallels between the a'dam and the oath rod. I never got that from the books for some reason. The oath rod seems almost a "beta version" to the a'dam now (in my head at least :) )
Agree. Best part of the episode
in the Age of Legends, the item they now call the "Oath Rod" was used to bind prisoners to their sentence
@@Wolfinator234 Might have missed this, but is this in the books?
Same, totally missed this in the books. Makes tons of sense
@@HekkieByes, Sammael gives another one to Sevanna in book 7 and mentions what it was for
I got heavy Pieta vibes from the way ishamael was holding Matt. Don’t know what symbolism could be there, maybe just a powerful image used as a reference, but I feel like there’s no way the visual was an accident.
Good call. Sorry no one else noticed. There are subtle Christian subtexts elsewhere as well.
This show could really make something out of shorts that are done in parallel where the story is built with brief scenes for fans to think on to help support the fast pace of the show.
Spoiler thoughts below for non book readers.
My theory for why they're going into the Ways together is that it is going to be the replacement for the Finn. I am becoming highly suspect that they'll include that plot element, for time and simplicity's sake. So I am wondering if Moiraine and Lanfear will come to blows in the Ways and both plummet off the side instead of through the twisted door. Not a huge fan of that, since it would necessitate a pretty major change to the Ways mechanically, make it very awkward to bring Moiraine back, and I really like the Finn so would love to see them. But I could easily see the showrunners going this route.
As for the gateway thing, it's pretty clear that it's a narrative choice. Lanfear clearly Travelled to get Mat to Falme, so they're hinting at the setup for that payoff later. Just keeping it hidden for the non reader crowd. It's actually one of the biggest things pointing me to Moiraine and Lanfear not making it through the Ways here, since it really makes so little sense in any way for Moiraine to go along with this idea. Even as cold and ruthless as she is, I can't see her just allowing Lanfear to slaughter a mass of innocent people without some greater purpose.
Broadly, I see this playing out with Rand having asked her to get him out and take him through the Ways. Lanfear is arrogant and confident of her abilities enough to go along with it and she is crafty enough to keep Travelling under wraps as long as she can. Moiraine takes the chance to destroy Lanfear, Rand gets to Falme, everything goes off the rails, etc. Lol. We'll see if that's anywhere near accurate, but I think it'll at least be interesting regardless.
Final thought, on an awesome note. I love how clear it is if you know the books that Ishamael and Lanfear are Travelling all over the damn place. XD
They have hinted several times at Travelling. We will see it in Episode 8 I think. The preview has spoilers in relation to your theories.
Yeah I can't see the Lanfear and Moiraine thing happening next episode. Even for cutting things down, that is too early.
this season has been a joy. the biggest TV surprise of 2023 for me
Super excited for the live-WoTch with Matt and Brandon! Looking forward to it.
S2 has been quite good IMO. Makes a lot more sense than S1 did.
Lanfear was always my favorite character, so I enjoy this TV version.
Starting with the most important part for me:
Re: Rand's meeting with Siuan - You can like him getting taken to his knees right after being told a man faces things on his feet, but I don't as it was a deliberate choice of the showrunner. Siuan shouldn't have the strength to shield him once he's embraced the source so that's going to present problems going forward, just how weak have they made Rand & are they going to keep him that way? There's no way of telling given what the showrunner has said, it's entirely possible Rand is going to stay nerfed the whole show.
As for going into the Ways with a Forsaken - it's a sign of the times, the baddies can't just be evil anymore, they have to be morally grey, but the problem with that is it makes them inconsistent either in action or in the reactions they get.
Re: Lan & the best line in the show - I'm sorry, but the line doesn't make sense in the scene & they don't have the relationship in the books to pull it off, he's not a mentor to Rand & he doesn't embody strength, let alone facing anything on his feet.
Re: Egwene & the threat - I don't think this is a good thing, it would have led to immediate punishment for her, but they had her just storm out of the room instead... I'm also with other people who have juxtaposed this with how Rand is handled in this episode & I just don't understand it, why have they made him so weak? It's season 1 all over again, with Rand being a weak secondary character, how are they going to have him become what he's supposed to be when he's always being presented as lesser?
Re: Simplifying the magic system - Stilling vs Shielding
I don't think they've done it to simplify things, it was done because they wanted to have a focus on Moiraine for this season & this was the best they could come up with & it was terribly handled. Just imagine what they might have achieved with Rand, Matt & Perrin if they didn't have it or the pointless stuff with her sister! I know you say that they could have used it for other things, but it's the boys that have had the least amount of development & we're at the end of season 2 now!
Re: Spoiler bit at the end - I don't think it's a good idea to build a relationship/antagonism between Moiraine & Lanfear as it would make her underestimating Moiraine later on harder to pull off. I'm sure they'll have a "reason" to use the Ways, something about it being a place to speak without others hearing or some such. As for wrapping up the season, it's just a mess I think it's going to be similar to season 1 where they just pull it out their... Seriously, they're having to magic everyone into something resembling where they're supposed to be in the story.
I didn't mind Siuan being able to shield Rand, though they should have had her do it before he embraced the source. It's not without some precedent in the books though. Siuan is able to cut Nynaeve off in tGH and she is also far stronger. Siuan even tells her the same thing she tells Rand in the episode. That once she is fully trained no one woman would ever be able to do that to her. The part I hated was that they didn't have him get back on his feet afterwards. If you recall that scene in tGH, Rand falls to his knees after Moiraine's little history lesson about his past and birth, but he struggles back up to face it on his feet. That's the part they butchered, not Rand's strength with the Power but his strength of character/will.
Lan's line didn't really work for me either, because they have done nothing to establish any kind of relationship between Lan and Rand.
I don't mind Lanfear operating a bit in the grey, it was often hard to tell exactly whose side she was on in the books too. Ultimately she's on her own side more than anything.
For all the Power and shielding stuff, I've just accepted that they're playing fast and loose with all of RJ's rules regarding channeling. They obviously have no faith that the casual viewer could understand and keep track of it all. I'm just kinda like w/e with that. Doesn't bother me near as much as other stuff.
Oh gods.. That moustache! I was not prepared for that.
In my opinion this season is definitely a step up from the 1st.
With S1 being rock bottom, they wouldn't have been able to down without the use of power tools.
That song you did in the beginning of the video had me crying laughing! I love it
I gave up after episode 3, i just couldnt get over what they were doing and the disrespect for the world and characters Robert Jordan had created
Daniel, i do not understand how you can agree with all these changes that have been made to the story, i get that amazon is a dreadnought but does that mean that they get to slaughter visions that greater men wrote. We see this with WoT, we see this with RoP?
Because he's being paid to do so ;) He's an "influencer", so he's trying to "influence". Nothing is ever "bad", or "wrong", just "interesting", "unique", "unexpected", etc....The audience this show is made for is very "specific", and they make up a large part of Daniel's audience, as well, so he won't bite the hand that feeds him, or they would "cancel" him just as fast. He's literally too afraid to be honest. LOL!
He admitted he is flying to Utah to sit with the producers. I gave him an out with Season 1 because I genuinely thought he was just blindsided by the lack of book respect but now? He doesn't have an excuse.
@@Dooger414 LOL! They flew him out? Why? Because he's such a great "writer" himself? That just proves they cared more about "influence" than the books. They're nothing if not predictable in their disdain and depravity. Although, you can even see the pangs of soul-crushing guilt every time he tries to spin bad into good, or they buy the name "Apple" and try to sell you an orange. "Wheel of Time"(tm)....minus the wheel and the time parts.
How many minutes during this episode was Rand on his knees? 🤔
oof
Renna just pouting and storming out when Egwene promised to kill her felt a bit odd to me. Perhaps I just was expecting anger rather than her being hurt by the rejection?
In her mind, she's being super nice and helpful. Everything she's done for egwene would be considered tame in her culture, and I think she loves the power between them. But egewene doesn't reciprocate those feelings. Just a burning hatred, and this was after she filled the cup. The original test of breaking all last episode. Another failure in her eyes
Yeah, I was expecting some form of punishment for Egwene after saying that. Instead, Renna just walks out like she's gonna go cry or something. It felt super weird considering the power dynamic between the two, and the fact that we've already seen that Renna doesn't shy away from punishing her damane.
You’re looking at this the wrong way. To us, it’s an interaction between two people. But to the Seanchan, damane aren’t human. They’re animals. Renna is trying to train a dog and getting hurt when the dog tries to bite her
The shows interpretation of the Seanchan is so botched. It's like the writers read a summary of the Seanchan culture, mainly skimming the Suldam/Damane dichotomy, and just completely missed the point. Everything interesting about the Seanchan is either absent, or so poorly interpreted it may as well not be there.
Up until that moment I thought they had done a really good job with Renna. Rafe couldn't resist giving egwene a powerful moment even though it detrimental to the ark that they are building.
They could have shown off egwene's hatred but also continued to build on the last episode by simply having Renna respond with a loving/patronizing pat and punishment going to off screen. It wouldn't have cost any more screen time but would have done a lot more service
You know, I just assumed Lan knew that Rand couldn't untie the knot and should instead cut it because he talked with Logain off screen about it, but then I remembered that they showed him leaving after that brief exchange and now I'm also confused. And on a different note: I really hope we get to see Mat as the reborn hero of the wheel he's been implied to be in the books and see the memories of his past selves being generals and heros. I love what they're doing with Mat so far but him seeing his past lives all being murderers and criminals is upsetting to me and it does the character dirty if that's all they'll give him.
Maybe the tea just show the negativ lives.🤷♂️
PS: Sorry, no native speaker
You’re assuming the tea actually is real. It’s probably just an anesthetic to put him into the dream world then fake this vision
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 yeah I thought of that, and it would track story-wise as Ishy has been known to use dreams to deceive both in the books and in the show (I don't think Mat even realises who Ishy is btw), and I'm hoping that's actually the case, but it seems like it might be too convoluted a plot to put up for the viewers so it might be for real.
But even if it was real it's still too early in the series for Mat to get his memories as they are in the book series, so I'm hoping we'll at least be shown that either those memories are false or that they have an extra added layer of depth to them that we discover as we go
I am afraid that they are using the tea as a substitue for the Old blood and Mat's relation with that. If after this he starts speaking with old tongue, having flashbacks of Manetheren calvary charges, or anything else that took place before the arches, I will be supremely annoyed with that. The fact that we have had none of that at all so far is worrying that this is the catalyst for it rather than it being an already known thing like in the books.
They have to introduce it in some way, since they botched it in the first season. There is some dagger action with Matt in the teaser for next episode. I'm hoping that might be the cause of the 'memories'. If not I'm fine with this solution. I just want him to turn into cool Matt, because the actor is just great and would deliver that very well.
I fear the same. It would be a very lame way for him to merge with is past selves.
Now I'm afarid too. I really hope they will keep the Aelfinn & Eelfinn, they add uniqueness and vastness to Randland.
Sometimes the show does the weirdest cuts/takes on books. Like when they did the “The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass” quote, but removed 1 sentence from it. It just weird, like, you already bitten the bullet with the quote, why stop (I would confess, hearing Moiraine recite it made me weep). They take one passing line and make the whole episode about it (Egwane’s cup). Take a whole sequence and just reference it (Rand burning invitation).
Not gonna happen. Dark One showrunner has other plans.
Mat is too much of a “lad” in the books for these writers. They can’t have that behaviour being seen as loveable and heroic. He’s the loveable rogue character. And they’ve made him into a cowardly selfish weasel type character. It’s so bad. And needless.
The cope in this one is strong!
Patiently waiting for the review of episode 8. 🫠
The one thing that really got me. Lews Therin showing up for the first time. For sure. Go back and listen to Rand talking to Suian. When he says I will not live in your cage. Something like that. Well If you have a good soundsystem, there are two voices comming out of his mouth. Listen carefully
Once Lan found out Moraine was not suicidal he was put on the path of discovering she had not actually being stilled.
Quite what I thought also. He was just being logical. Wasn't a big leap for someone who knew channelers.
Yeah, I thought it made total sense. In fact I thought it was perfect for Lan because it featured how dedicated he is to Moraine, just like he is in the books.
@@aliciasorenson3807 Didn't stop everyone chiding him and Moiraine treating him terrible while never having to say sorry or atone for her behavior. If you analyze everything Moiraine did this Season, she's kind of a terrible person.
I despise what they have done to Rand, Matt, Perrin, Nyneave and Min in this series.
They have zero agency, doing either nothing, or just following along with whatever person they happen to be following around at the time.
I just felt like Lan figuring out what was going on with Moraine came out of nowhere. He knew something was off about her, and at the end of the episode we find out he knows a story about a long forgotten technique which was never mentioned before, so he asks Logain the perfect question that let's him know exactly what is wrong with Moraine? And he's somehow able to know how to fix her too? Idk man, either I missed something or this plotline was pulled from thin air.
Like a lot of other things ....out of the air,no logic
In Rafe's world, Lan Mandragoran is more knowledgeable in forgotten weaves than the Aes Sedai. 🤣
Ehhhhh, I don't really agree with this.
Lan honestly believed Moiraine was stilled until Logain mentioned the weaves to him.
And it isn't that farfetched for him to him to know a bit about channeling after spending years in the company of Aes Sedai. So when Rand says, "I see a knot, but I can't untie it" (I don't remember the exact quote) it isn't a huge leap in logic to say, "Ok, try cutting it then"
I DO think the line about the legend was dumb though. He could have gotten the information in a much less ham-fisted way. He could have asked another Aes Sedai about gentling someone. "Hey, Liandrin, when you gentle a man, are there weaves left behind? No? Interesting..." and then he could have connected the dots from there.
@@freakyphil93I agree with you. I think he already suspected something was off and had started looking into it (maybe with Verin's help). It's why he asked her if she'd felt suicidal. When she said no, he knew something was up/ that he was on to something.
Also, why would the Aes Sedai know about this? They're literally all women. They wouldn't have any info on male weaves. And definitely can't see them. Folks are really trifling
How so? Everybody was bitching about how long the two have been bickering, and Moiraine pushing him away. So was Lan just feeling sorry for himself ... or ... trying to figure if she had actually been cut off or ... could this be a type of shielding ... only possible with the Fallen.
C'mon. Even a show fans know the Fallen are extremely powerful ... and ... the powerful false dragon reborn being ... cut off ... by shielding performed by two weaklings. Look how easily Lanfear dealt with Siuan & her group of weaklings.
And we are talking about ... threads ....so you can you either cut a person off from the powers of these threads ... by shielding a person from them ... or ... tying a them all into knots stopping the flow of power.
I forgot about the flicker flicker flicker part. I thought they were just working their way into completely cutting out the snakes and foxes for Mat.
Good luck avoiding spoilers etc for a whole week!!!
It's only spoilers because they're not adapting the books...
In the early episodes of this season, I thought negatively of the actress playing Lanfear - like she was supposed to be nothing but a love interest and came across that way. She has really transformed her character entirely. She's what I like to call "deliciously evil," she does it so well, that I can't help but actually root for her.
Fear and Loathing in Falme?
Loving season 2 so far. Weird bits, but great episode imo
Lol
Just checking in to see where they went with the story. Thanks for your coverage.
Amerlyn should not have been able to shield Rand since he was already holding the source
As pointed out in this video, Rand being inexperienced probably didn't know how to break out of the shield. He probably could have easily undone the shield if he put up a stronger resistance.
@@barbiquearea Hardly. They establish Season 1 that Logain required multiple sisters LINKED to subdue, but the Amyrlin backhands Rand instantly. Keep in mind, this is after Logain says Rand has a far greater connection than he did. So no, Dan is getting really selective in his criticism. Hope his Utah trip to "react" in chairs with Amazon's lead producers of the show will be just as "authentic" as this tripe.
Omg, your intro with Matt is hilarious
Given Min’s vision about Mat killing Rand with the Ruby-hilted dagger E06, I strongly suspect that the ‘sheathing the sword’ moment from The Great Hunt, is going to be replaced with Mat stabbing him during that scene.
The wildfire of fan outrage would be insane
@@stephengrant4841agreed but they haven’t mentioned sword forms much aside from in episode 7 and that whole conversation about sheathing the sword with Lan that takes place in the books hasn’t happened either. I imagine they’ll have Mat stab him and use that to fuel Rand’s paranoia and mistrust of his friends and to push Mat’s story forward too.
@@jackthornber8794 Rand never distrusts his friends. Never. He pushes them away because he distrusts himself, then starts to use them once he starts conquering cities.
@@stephengrant4841 all due respect to you mate, that’s just not how I read it. That’s fine though, we can have different opinions and still get along 👍
@DanielGreeneReviews I have to say I love your review of Wheel of Time because of constructive criticism. Unlike some other reviewers, like, say, Disparu...you base your criticism on objective arguments, rather just shitting all over it without proper backing up. And also, you aren't afraid to give credits where credits are due.
As someone that is starting to read the books now, I didn't understand what Ishamael did to Moiraine as shielding, or at least not the same form of shielding that the Aes Sedai use. I understood it as Ishamael using a form of channeling from the Age of Legends to keep her away from the source that has the same effect as shielding but is different in application and maintenance. Like if he was not constantly holding her away from the source but tying her up and making her unnable to touch it.
But it's not shielding at all. Simply putting pressure on a thread to to stop the flow of power. You don't have to be a book reader ... to figure out that there's only two ways ... Moiraine could lose her powers: cut off from the thread (shielding) or tied that thumping be knot in the thread. Where shielding requires a person maintaining it. And Ishamal ... simply cut Moiraine off immediately .. and did nothing else.
@@abelincoln8885I would disagree. I think in my understsnding he is right.
Moirane was Shielded, but the weaves of the one power to shield was tied of. Tie of a shield is a technik they use in more often later in the Story.
Moirane, and any other aes sedai could not see it, because a man channeled it.
Don't forget the concept of the inverted weave. Not only tied off, but then inverted so it doesn't show. How Rand would then see it is the question, but that would be the only way everybody else would miss it and be fooled.
These replies are trying to make sense of the writing for the shows' benefit and not using the show to defend itself. The writers' failed to make sense of this use of The Power and, when you really think about it, makes Moiraine's entire character arch of being stilled at the start POINTLESS if she is now where she left off at Season 1. And after berating Lan, ignoring her family, giving no aid to Rand FOR MONTHS then demanding he follow her every whim with absolutely no accountability to her behavior.
@@95l0uisYes. He could have tied the weaves off. But you can still sense the source in while shielded in the books. The change doesn't really add anything to the storyline imo. It's just kind of silly
I just can't help but love Ishamael and Lanfear. They can be terryfying, charismatic, dangerous and sassy (especially Lanfear) power beasts but at the same time they feel so human 🤔
Don't forget, in the preview released for E8, Moraine and Lan appear on the beach near a waygate. No Rand or Lanfear in sight. Somehow the couples separate. Lanfear's doing or Moraine's?
Great review Daniel. Moiraine and Siuan frolicking around the tower in summer dresses while it is bitter winter outside also bothered me. I like the rest of the episode. Lets hope episode 8 is a real banger.
The issue with breathing room is that this show has time for it. It just chooses to squander that time away with the warders and Lan stories this season. Cut that and allow the other plotlines to breathe and bring Lan back in ep 7. You dont need to use him in every episode.
Lan is a book readers fan fave...
Most want to see if they are going to make him as he was in the books...others canno stop watching him get "butchered"
Having Lan in each episode allows both aspects to get a dose of what they want to see- Lan
You do if he's a big name actor, which is who they cast for Lan and Moraine.
@@aliciasorenson3807 Not to the detriment of the show...
Yeah, upon a rewatch, they really have no idea what to do with him in this situation, Moiraine being shielded. They really could have just dropped all that, fleshed out some of the other plot lines.
I liked the Lanfear/Foregate scene as far as the show is concerned but I do think it links back to Lanfear telling Rand that she will help him but not too directly.
I'm mostly intrigued by what they choose to do with Matt's storyline. It seems like they have the same point A and B with Matt's early story arc (hanging tree), but if I hadn't read the books I'd actually have no idea what's going on with him LOL.
No reason the tree can't happen next season, I assume Rand will be heading east eventually
I have read the books and have no idea what’s happening to him. DMT trips were not part of any book I read. And he certainly wouldn’t have been calmly talking away with Ishamael and consider anything he said other than a lie. But have they done any of the strong male characters right so far? I feel like they’ve all had their power and influence nerfed. One of the great captains in the last battle, dead in first season to an easily avoidable bolt. Fan favourite rough type soldier man makes it to last battle, needlessly dead already. Rand? Cowering on floors and obeying orders more often than anything else. Perrin? Had to kill his wife to be able to be conflicted and brooding ( they explained it way better and easier in the books ) Lan? Greatest swordsman in the world and everyone knows he has a one man war against the dark, we’ll just tone down his skills, his presence, his importance, and try and bait and switch him as a darkfriend? Mat? Loveable rogue character turned into a cowardly selfish cretin. I think Thom is the only male character they’ve done well so far.
5:24 in the first paragraph of the “shadow in Shienar” chapter in The Great Hunt, the result of being stilled is described as being able to sense the power but not being able to channel its flows. Does this change in later books?
*News Update* - Shohreh Aghdashloo will be playing Elaida. I wanted her as Cadsuane, but she can portray a great tyrannical psycho, so I’m okay with it! Plus, she’s a great actress.
yea, she's better served as Elaida. Such a more interesting character. Cadsuane never felt interesting to me, and knowing now that Jordan had her as a character WAAAAY back before he even really understood his own story, it makes a lot of sense now; she was one darling he just couldn't kill.
Cadsuane could've been written out and it would've made for a better story.
Oh hell yeah
Oooooo I’m excited for you live viewing with Sanderson! New subscriber!