I'm so glad y'all had a longer discussion on pitch accent. It has exploded in the last several years, and people are so passionate about it, to the point where I've seen them saying it's pointless to learn Japanese if you don't learn pitch accent, or that you should learn pitch accent first, or you'll never be understood if you don't know pitch accent. It's wild. Just do lots of listening, shadow, and you'll be fine. I've never studied pitch accent, didn't even know it was a thing until a couple years ago, and I've never had an issue being understood. I've talked with a tutor of mine too, a native speaker, and she said the same thing y'all did. Japan already has a wide variety of pitch accents depending on where you're from, so they're already used to a variety of speech. It's an interesting topic, and if you want to dive into it, go ahead, but don't let it be another barrier stopping you from learning the language. Cheers for the video! :)
I don't want to be a super expert but I feel like you pick it up a little if you consume enough media and/or interact enough with people... but I feel like... you would look or seem especially strange if you had this perfect and you looked like a foreigner. right? I feel like I would be shocked.
Where it does become useful is when you are using words or phrases in a vacuum. I have come across many native speakers who heard what I said but didn’t understand because the pitch accent was off. They repeated the word back to me in their native pitch accent and then finally understood what I was saying despite hearing the sounds. This happens less than 1% of the time but getting a good pitch accent can push your Japanese forward because native speakers assume you are more fluent and likewise treat you as being more fluent.
According to Stephen Krashen, you can't acquire pitch accent through study. He basically told Matt that he was wrong but in an indirect manner. Obviously Matt acquired pitch accent through acquisition but is under the impression that it was through study.
Thank you to Brian for this BEAST MODE Japanese check-in! Give this a listen podcast style (especially for all the Americans in food comas this weekend!) and let me know where your studies are💪
Thank you for having me, Loretta! It is always so nice to see you. It was a great conversation and I hope there were tidbits in there to help encourage everyone to succeed with their Japanese.
I'm taking JLPT N2 in a little over a week. I'm not that confident that I'll pass...but weather or not I do I've learned so much while preparing for it. So I'm happy. I'll continue to do all the studying/reviewing I can until the day of the test!! Thank you for making videos like this!
Ahhhh GOOD LUCK next week and beyond!!! Seriously, I'm sure you know now but there's just so much more outside of the test. Hopefully you get some rest before and smash it.
Me too! And I have the same thought as yours, I am not sure I’ll pass, but I am really proud of myself because I realised how much I learned and how my vocabulary and grammar knowledge have grown. ❤ 💪🏻🍀🍀🍀
One small thing I would add is for people who may want to move to Japan and who also need to use the point system for immigration. This is always subject to change but N1 rewards the most points for immigration purposes. I went from having absolutely no desire to take the JLPT because I was fully focused on practical use but once I started to think more seriously about moving I've decided I should really at least try to pass N2. But of course this all depends on someone's individual situation!
Another very interesting video, thanks Loretta!! Great to see Brian again too. I started Satori Reader after watching your previous video, definitely the best tool for learning Japanese. I stopped Japanese lessons a while ago and always found it so hard to stay motivated with only JLPT books (and not living in Japan)- either endless lists of vocab or grammar books where there is barely any explanation! Satori Reader brought back my motivation and made it so much easier for me to learn. I am taking JLPT N2 in a week, not confident at all but I am already happy with what I learnt with Satori. Looking forward to listening to the new series 🙂
Good luck on N2 next week!!!! Also, I'm with you. I just absolutely could not cram down meaningless study content and was always craving more real content that felt like actual people. 🥰❤️ Soon you'll been free of the JLPT!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!
I tried satori reader a while ago but gave it up. maybe I’ll check it out again. Really inspiring to see two equally passionate people talk about Japanese haha~ one day I’d like to be able to read novels too-not just JLPT like articles I’ve been studying for. Hearing those seasonal poetic words inspired me further!
So glad to see Brian back again!! I signed up for Satori Reader a while ago after seeing your last video with him and I’m so glad I did! 😊 Love the ‘ambassador words’ concept, I think I’ve done that a couple times accidentally but it’s such a good way to approach big broad concepts like tense tables 👏
Satori reader has been my favorite learning resource for supplementing the bridge between beginner's learning content and native Japanese content. I can't recommend it enough. Brian is very knowledgeable and kind. You can always find him in the comments of stories responding to questions and feedback.
Hello, Ian. Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad Satori Reader is clicking with you so well. We look forward to continuing to study with you!
Nice conversation with Brian, Loretta! The Jam episode seems really interesting as I thing learning a language through food is a tangible way to connect concepts and actions in a way most people can relate to.
I love Brian!!! I feel like he is a kindred spirit of mine when it comes to teaching methodology! :) Super approachable teacher-vibes and a fundamentally sympathetic human being. ^^
I'd been using the free version of Satori Reader for a while but finally signed up to the full version a couple of days ago. I'm loving コナの大冒険. This video has made me even more excited for new content now. I want to become a Japanese to English translator and plan on taking the JLPTN1 next year hopefully. Satori Reader just makes learning fun and I'm so grateful there are more resources than just textbooks now
Hello, Katie. Thank you for your support! I'm so glad you're enjoying コナの大冒険. That is a very special story to me too. It's so much easier to stay focused and motivated when you have a story you care about to pull you along, isn't it? Thank you again and best wishes on your continuing studies!
Reading is one thing I hate. I don't know why. But if I force myself and go by what you said, my Japanese study should skyrocket. I have read that alot of people improve mostly from reading everyday. I'll have a go at satori reader for a year and see how I go. As long you have graded series for beginners, then sweet. Thanks for the video
Regarding pitch accent, I’ve recently been taking Dogen’s Japanese Phonetics course and while I’m no way near getting it all right I’ve found the initial improvement to my Japanese has been very good. My phone (Siri) now understands me a lot better too. I’m not really aiming to get everything right, but I’m glad I gave it the time of day rather than just casting aside as toxic hype
@@kemushichan Thanks! I should also have added that I bought a subscription to Satori Reader after your last video with Brian and it’s been the most impactful product for improving my Japanese yet. It just has it all! So, thanks for introducing Brian!
@@TomKilworth Hi, Tom. That sounds like a balanced approach to pitch accent. I'm glad it's been useful to you! Dogen clearly has a passion for the topic and knows his stuff. I really respect the level of focus he brings. Thank you for the kind words regarding Satori Reader as well! I'm so glad to hear it's been so helpful to you. We sincerely appreciate your support and look forward to continuing studying with you!
As an advanced Japanese learners myself, these are the two accent dictionaries of "Standard" Japanese (標準語* or 共通語*) I recommend to all advanced Japanese learners: *no offense to speakers of other major dialects like the Kansai dialects NHK日本語発音アクセント新辞典（with a comprehensive appendix on accents of Japanese places/names etc.） 新明解アクセント辞典（with a comprehensive accent "rules" at the end of the dictionary and an accompanying audio CD） Others, like the following, are Japanese dictionaries for native speakers of Japanese that I know of that come with numbers or marks indicating accent pitch positions: 大辞林（one of the most comprehensive Japanese dictionaries in Japan aside from 広辞苑） 新明解国語辞典（one of the most popular Japanese dictionaries for the general public?） 三省堂国語辞典（a Japanese dictionary that actively incorporates a lot of neologisms） 集英社国語辞典（a lesser-known Japanese dictionary） 角川国語辞典（a lesser-known Japanese dictionary） Advanced learners (perhaps upper intermediate learners as well?) will find the above dictionaries helpful in learning new words and memorizing their correct accent pitch simultaneously.
FYI, while not in all dictionaries, pitch accent _is_ in many dictionaries, albeit, usually presented in an unusual manner: a number. That number indicates the mora after which the pitch changes, with the additional knowledge that there is _always_ a pitch change after the first mora. So Heiban would be 1, the nakadaka on taberu would be 2 (the down to up after ta being implied), etc. Edit: the above is actually wrong. The number indicates the mora after which the pitch goes _down_, with the additional knowledge that there is always a pitch change after the first mora. So Heiban is 0, atamadaka is 1, nakadaka on taberu is 2, etc. and if the number is the number of moras, that means the word is odaka.
@@kemushichan I'll add this: the rule that there is always a pitch change after the first mora is not true across all Japanese accents. Notably, in Osaka-ben, there are pitch patterns where the first two moras are high.
Hi, xahal. Thanks for the note! Well, I have to say, I learned something new today. I have five native Japanese dictionaries at my side -- physical copies of 広辞苑 and 旺文社国語辞典, plus electronic copies of 大辞泉, 明鏡国語辞典, and 新明解国語辞典 -- and the first four don't show pitch accent information at all, but 新明解国語辞典 does indeed show the keys you describe! This is the first time I have ever seen any pitch accent information in a standard dictionary. Thanks for pointing it out!
妖怪 an interesting word. It looks to be made of 女 (woman)+天 (heaven) + 怪 (suspicious). So Youkai are suspicious heavenly women. Hmmm 🤔 come to think of it, there are many stories of Youkai disguised as women, no? For an easy example the Yuki-Onna. A Youkai that’s found in deep snowy areas and times of blizzards. It/She is as white as snow and just as mesmerizing. Take care not to cross paths or it/she’ll devour you (your soul?) . Also take care of your appearance. It appears the Yuki Onna is quite a fan girl for cute guys. It/She’d no doubt be a fan of male idols, heck I bet the Yuki Onna has visited South Korea 😅
Honestly, I wish if only they could make another Human Japanese app, but at this rate they probably will never make another one after the intermediate one.
Hello, HiddenArmy. Thank you! The "Nutshell Grammar" series within Satori Reader is our best effort to provide a smooth bridge between the end of Human Japanese Intermediate and the grammar you need for Satori Reader content. If you haven't tried it yet, please give it a try!
Sounds like you have a unique style that works for you, so stick with it! There's a very large community of learners (myself included) that enjoy these methods so no need to knock it. There's no one way to "how the brain works", just do what works for you. 👋
@@yishihara55527 Babies aren't born speaking a language. That means unlike adults they have much more to learn and much less habits to unlearn or abandon (like the sound they referred to) when acquiring a language. ignorance is understandable, arrogance is not. I guess it's ok to be nicer.
I'm so glad y'all had a longer discussion on pitch accent. It has exploded in the last several years, and people are so passionate about it, to the point where I've seen them saying it's pointless to learn Japanese if you don't learn pitch accent, or that you should learn pitch accent first, or you'll never be understood if you don't know pitch accent. It's wild. Just do lots of listening, shadow, and you'll be fine. I've never studied pitch accent, didn't even know it was a thing until a couple years ago, and I've never had an issue being understood. I've talked with a tutor of mine too, a native speaker, and she said the same thing y'all did. Japan already has a wide variety of pitch accents depending on where you're from, so they're already used to a variety of speech. It's an interesting topic, and if you want to dive into it, go ahead, but don't let it be another barrier stopping you from learning the language. Cheers for the video! :)
👏👏 SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE TRY-HARDS IN THE BACK👏👏
I don't want to be a super expert but I feel like you pick it up a little if you consume enough media and/or interact enough with people... but I feel like... you would look or seem especially strange if you had this perfect and you looked like a foreigner. right? I feel like I would be shocked.
@@thepokekid01 I don't think is worth the effort just to shock native speakers.
Where it does become useful is when you are using words or phrases in a vacuum. I have come across many native speakers who heard what I said but didn’t understand because the pitch accent was off. They repeated the word back to me in their native pitch accent and then finally understood what I was saying despite hearing the sounds. This happens less than 1% of the time but getting a good pitch accent can push your Japanese forward because native speakers assume you are more fluent and likewise treat you as being more fluent.
According to Stephen Krashen, you can't acquire pitch accent through study. He basically told Matt that he was wrong but in an indirect manner. Obviously Matt acquired pitch accent through acquisition but is under the impression that it was through study.
100% with you both on pitch accent here.
Brian is the man, and Satori Reader is the best. =)
Edit: You have to make Jam Maker Part 2 about a DJ now.
Thank you to Brian for this BEAST MODE Japanese check-in! Give this a listen podcast style (especially for all the Americans in food comas this weekend!) and let me know where your studies are💪
Thank you for having me, Loretta! It is always so nice to see you. It was a great conversation and I hope there were tidbits in there to help encourage everyone to succeed with their Japanese.
I'm taking JLPT N2 in a little over a week. I'm not that confident that I'll pass...but weather or not I do I've learned so much while preparing for it. So I'm happy.
I'll continue to do all the studying/reviewing I can until the day of the test!!
Thank you for making videos like this!
Ahhhh GOOD LUCK next week and beyond!!! Seriously, I'm sure you know now but there's just so much more outside of the test. Hopefully you get some rest before and smash it.
Good luck! I'm planning to take it next year!
Me too! And I have the same thought as yours, I am not sure I’ll pass, but I am really proud of myself because I realised how much I learned and how my vocabulary and grammar knowledge have grown. ❤ 💪🏻🍀🍀🍀
omgggg human japanese was how i kickstarted my japanese learning and have made leaps and bounds since then. such a good app, especially for beginners.
It's great to finally be able to put a face and voice to the name that responds to my Satori Reader questions!
Thank you very much for your support of Satori Reader and see you in the comments! :-)
Omg Ted Chiang?! I was already a massive fan of Satori reader, but this is so exciting! I loved his short stories collections 😮
One small thing I would add is for people who may want to move to Japan and who also need to use the point system for immigration. This is always subject to change but N1 rewards the most points for immigration purposes. I went from having absolutely no desire to take the JLPT because I was fully focused on practical use but once I started to think more seriously about moving I've decided I should really at least try to pass N2. But of course this all depends on someone's individual situation!
You are correct!!!! I also used the JLPT in my HSP visa here.
Another very interesting video, thanks Loretta!! Great to see Brian again too. I started Satori Reader after watching your previous video, definitely the best tool for learning Japanese. I stopped Japanese lessons a while ago and always found it so hard to stay motivated with only JLPT books (and not living in Japan)- either endless lists of vocab or grammar books where there is barely any explanation! Satori Reader brought back my motivation and made it so much easier for me to learn. I am taking JLPT N2 in a week, not confident at all but I am already happy with what I learnt with Satori. Looking forward to listening to the new series 🙂
Good luck on N2 next week!!!!
Also, I'm with you. I just absolutely could not cram down meaningless study content and was always craving more real content that felt like actual people.
🥰❤️ Soon you'll been free of the JLPT!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!
@@kemushichan thank you! 😊 great coaching from your videos anyway!! ❤️
Hello, Camille! I'm so glad to hear Satori Reader has helped get your motivation back up. Good luck on the JLPT next week! You can do it!
I tried satori reader a while ago but gave it up. maybe I’ll check it out again. Really inspiring to see two equally passionate people talk about Japanese haha~ one day I’d like to be able to read novels too-not just JLPT like articles I’ve been studying for. Hearing those seasonal poetic words inspired me further!
Wooof, those study articles will dry you out like a HUSK
So glad to see Brian back again!! I signed up for Satori Reader a while ago after seeing your last video with him and I’m so glad I did! 😊
Love the ‘ambassador words’ concept, I think I’ve done that a couple times accidentally but it’s such a good way to approach big broad concepts like tense tables 👏
I seriously love this phrase. It's the only way I learn but I never had a good word for it. I feel like Brian unlocked my learning style🤩.
Thank you for your support of Satori Reader! We're happy to be studying with you too!
Satori reader has been my favorite learning resource for supplementing the bridge between beginner's learning content and native Japanese content. I can't recommend it enough. Brian is very knowledgeable and kind. You can always find him in the comments of stories responding to questions and feedback.
Thank you for the kind words, Cody! I'm glad Satori Reader has been such a good fit for you. We look forward to continuing to study with you!
I love Satori Reader! Thank you and your team for all of the wonderful content :)
Hello, Ian. Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad Satori Reader is clicking with you so well. We look forward to continuing to study with you!
Nice conversation with Brian, Loretta! The Jam episode seems really interesting as I thing learning a language through food is a tangible way to connect concepts and actions in a way most people can relate to.
You know I can't resist a good food story 😉
Yes! This story has an interesting sensory twist that I think you might enjoy. Be sure to listen to the version with sound effects! :-)
Love Satori Reader and just think the world of Brian and his commitment. What a great team and product.
Thank you for the kind words, Matthew! We really appreciate your support!
I love Brian!!! I feel like he is a kindred spirit of mine when it comes to teaching methodology! :) Super approachable teacher-vibes and a fundamentally sympathetic human being. ^^
I’m a big fan of you 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💜💜
I'd been using the free version of Satori Reader for a while but finally signed up to the full version a couple of days ago. I'm loving コナの大冒険. This video has made me even more excited for new content now.
I want to become a Japanese to English translator and plan on taking the JLPTN1 next year hopefully. Satori Reader just makes learning fun and I'm so grateful there are more resources than just textbooks now
Hello, Katie. Thank you for your support! I'm so glad you're enjoying コナの大冒険. That is a very special story to me too. It's so much easier to stay focused and motivated when you have a story you care about to pull you along, isn't it? Thank you again and best wishes on your continuing studies!
@@satorireader Thank you so much! And thank you for all the hard work you put into Satori Reader 🙂
Reading is one thing I hate. I don't know why. But if I force myself and go by what you said, my Japanese study should skyrocket. I have read that alot of people improve mostly from reading everyday.
I'll have a go at satori reader for a year and see how I go. As long you have graded series for beginners, then sweet.
Thanks for the video
Regarding pitch accent, I’ve recently been taking Dogen’s Japanese Phonetics course and while I’m no way near getting it all right I’ve found the initial improvement to my Japanese has been very good. My phone (Siri) now understands me a lot better too. I’m not really aiming to get everything right, but I’m glad I gave it the time of day rather than just casting aside as toxic hype
Awesome! I'm glad you're enjoying the process. 😍
@@kemushichan Thanks! I should also have added that I bought a subscription to Satori Reader after your last video with Brian and it’s been the most impactful product for improving my Japanese yet. It just has it all! So, thanks for introducing Brian!
@@TomKilworth Hi, Tom. That sounds like a balanced approach to pitch accent. I'm glad it's been useful to you! Dogen clearly has a passion for the topic and knows his stuff. I really respect the level of focus he brings.
Thank you for the kind words regarding Satori Reader as well! I'm so glad to hear it's been so helpful to you. We sincerely appreciate your support and look forward to continuing studying with you!
As an advanced Japanese learners myself, these are the two accent dictionaries of "Standard" Japanese (標準語* or 共通語*) I recommend to all advanced Japanese learners:
*no offense to speakers of other major dialects like the Kansai dialects
NHK日本語発音アクセント新辞典（with a comprehensive appendix on accents of Japanese places/names etc.）
新明解アクセント辞典（with a comprehensive accent "rules" at the end of the dictionary and an accompanying audio CD）
Others, like the following, are Japanese dictionaries for native speakers of Japanese that I know of that come with numbers or marks indicating accent pitch positions:
大辞林（one of the most comprehensive Japanese dictionaries in Japan aside from 広辞苑）
新明解国語辞典（one of the most popular Japanese dictionaries for the general public?）
三省堂国語辞典（a Japanese dictionary that actively incorporates a lot of neologisms）
集英社国語辞典（a lesser-known Japanese dictionary）
角川国語辞典（a lesser-known Japanese dictionary）
Advanced learners (perhaps upper intermediate learners as well?) will find the above dictionaries helpful in learning new words and memorizing their correct accent pitch simultaneously.
First?! Wow so early!! I'll watch when I wake up!!❤️
RISE AND SHINE, BÉBÉ
FYI, while not in all dictionaries, pitch accent _is_ in many dictionaries, albeit, usually presented in an unusual manner: a number. That number indicates the mora after which the pitch changes, with the additional knowledge that there is _always_ a pitch change after the first mora. So Heiban would be 1, the nakadaka on taberu would be 2 (the down to up after ta being implied), etc.
Edit: the above is actually wrong. The number indicates the mora after which the pitch goes _down_, with the additional knowledge that there is always a pitch change after the first mora. So Heiban is 0, atamadaka is 1, nakadaka on taberu is 2, etc. and if the number is the number of moras, that means the word is odaka.
Ooooo a sekrit tip!!
@@kemushichan I'll add this: the rule that there is always a pitch change after the first mora is not true across all Japanese accents. Notably, in Osaka-ben, there are pitch patterns where the first two moras are high.
Another rule that is good to know: after the pitch accent goes down in a word, it never goes up again.
Hi, xahal. Thanks for the note! Well, I have to say, I learned something new today. I have five native Japanese dictionaries at my side -- physical copies of 広辞苑 and 旺文社国語辞典, plus electronic copies of 大辞泉, 明鏡国語辞典, and 新明解国語辞典 -- and the first four don't show pitch accent information at all, but 新明解国語辞典 does indeed show the keys you describe! This is the first time I have ever seen any pitch accent information in a standard dictionary. Thanks for pointing it out!
妖怪 an interesting word. It looks to be made of 女 (woman)+天 (heaven) + 怪 (suspicious). So Youkai are suspicious heavenly women. Hmmm 🤔 come to think of it, there are many stories of Youkai disguised as women, no? For an easy example the Yuki-Onna. A Youkai that’s found in deep snowy areas and times of blizzards. It/She is as white as snow and just as mesmerizing. Take care not to cross paths or it/she’ll devour you (your soul?) . Also take care of your appearance. It appears the Yuki Onna is quite a fan girl for cute guys. It/She’d no doubt be a fan of male idols, heck I bet the Yuki Onna has visited South Korea 😅
Honestly, I wish if only they could make another Human Japanese app, but at this rate they probably will never make another one after the intermediate one.
Hello, HiddenArmy. Thank you! The "Nutshell Grammar" series within Satori Reader is our best effort to provide a smooth bridge between the end of Human Japanese Intermediate and the grammar you need for Satori Reader content. If you haven't tried it yet, please give it a try!
4:57 it's your mom brain girl, don't worry about it. 😂
🤣 guilty!
Nice topic ^_^
Naruto fans know Konoha. ナルトフャンなら、木の葉が知ってるはず^o^
I only know 木の葉 from Naruto 💀
Do you write about sports?
17:37 He obviously doesn't understand about language acquisition or how the brain works during language production.
Sounds like you have a unique style that works for you, so stick with it! There's a very large community of learners (myself included) that enjoy these methods so no need to knock it. There's no one way to "how the brain works", just do what works for you. 👋
@@kemushichan I guess it's ok to be wrong.
@@yishihara55527 Babies aren't born speaking a language. That means unlike adults they have much more to learn and much less habits to unlearn or abandon (like the sound they referred to) when acquiring a language. ignorance is understandable, arrogance is not. I guess it's ok to be nicer.
@@jonathane2710 I guess on some planets they would consider your comment a meaningful contribution...
@@kemushichangirl u r so nice その無礼なコメントにとても優しく答えた