Step 1: Start learning a new framework Step 2: Get frustrated with building apps because, as a newbie, you make lots of mistakes with the framework and are not sure of the best way to use it. You find lots of conflicting opinions on the internet. Step 3: Read articles and watch videos hyping up the good things about another framework, which claims to solve a problem that you’ve experienced with your current framework. Step 4: Become afraid that you’ve chosen the wrong framework that will not have the best future, and think that maybe the grass is greener on the other side. You pick up a new framework and go back to step 1. Step 5: Eventually break out of the Step 1-4 loop because you’ve settled on the “least bad” framework. Step 6: Get JS fatigue, quit to learn a different language and focus on backend.
This is literally me, started out with React, went through the loop… Started trying out Solid, then now Svelte… Eventually if you build big enough apps with all of these frameworks, you’ll find very frustrating bottlenecks in every one of them.
I began with svelte / sveltekit, I thought I never would be using anything else until AstroJs lol, now I'm in love with it. I like to use: "Astro SSG + Alpine (for more simple jobs)", "Astro SSR + HTMX + Alpine (medium jobs) / Qwik instead Alpine when need more interactivity power to avoid Astro Island that in my case would be in Svelte, I think Qwik can make these jobs, is a little variant ", ".NET Razor Pages + HTMX + Alpine / Qwik (for more complex tasks). Qwik I'm still learning abou it, for now Alpine is doing all the job, Vanilla CSS (Freestyle) is my way to go, no tailwind, no bootstrap, just freestyle, I heard about Pico CSS to use like some default, but I have to know it first, to talk after :)
We don't need any more frontend frameworks (most of the new ones standout features are slowly being built into the big frameworks anyway), what we really need is some cleaning up of the backend js build process. Bun is not quite there yet unfortunately, Dealing every day with ESM vs CommonJS packages still, build errors, having extra compile steps for typescript, drowning in module dependencies... it's just so annoying and eating up so much time that is wholly unproductive.
I love Express. Especially when using Nest, where it just works :) My strategy for managing this fatigue is to stick to one. One technology per use case. And then swap when you find a better one. Currently it’s Node by default, Rust for performance. And Swift for iOS. It’s the same for frameworks: Be Nest for server side node., Warp for Rust, SolidJS for front end, and Apple’s stuff for iOS. Keep it simple. If something better comes up, However, it’s easier to avoid the hype.
Hey max, i feel like there's a need for a course refresh in node just like your new go course. The node right now is too chunky I feel. Anyways thank you for your courses.
It seems to me that each new one has an interesting new take on how to solve a problem and any truely good solution gradually gets adopted by the other frameworks and so the difference between them is slowly smoothing out.
Your svelte course showed me how easy web development could be after watching your angular one for a long time and not getting anything at all and hating it. That Svelte3 course was an amazing time saver when there was not much content about it at all. I still love using Svelte and now Kit with it and even though my main work uses angular, I can't stand it's archaic way of components, extremely stupid level or Rxjs usage and really bad life cycle model. I donno about the rest of the people but you did an amazing thing to me when I was looking for a source. For better or worse, Svelte is one of the few non-jsx library on the market and I hear more and more devs who really dislike jsx.
to be honest javascript is a broken language to my eyes with a lot of weird behaviours. the notion that one language to run everything, frontend, backend, mobile it's good on paper but evidently not in practice. at least not by using javascript.
What's intriguing is your exclusive focus on frameworks within the JavaScript ecosystem. Have you considered exploring frameworks from other programming languages and making an overall comparison? I believe that would be quite helpful. Thank you! 👍🏻👍🏻
how about elixir ? what do you think ? for me it's the only language that really delightful to work with also has one framework that really dominant on their ecosystem, phoenix framework
Nooo, there could never be too many JS frameworks. The purpose of JS these days is to create, well, more JS frameworks. What else would JS be used for? lol
Just time, and working with other people. I thought I was way better than I was when I first started working, then I started to feel useless, now I feel competent. A big part of it is acknowledging your shortcomings but also acknowledging your wins when they happen. Also, don't compare your middle to someone else's end. Finally, it'll always be there at least a little bit.
"to leave .NET and make a career in the JS ecosystem". Understand if the goal is making a career with it. If it's because of personal taste, well, everyone has his own taste.
Step 1: Start learning a new framework
Step 2: Get frustrated with building apps because, as a newbie, you make lots of mistakes with the framework and are not sure of the best way to use it. You find lots of conflicting opinions on the internet.
Step 3: Read articles and watch videos hyping up the good things about another framework, which claims to solve a problem that you’ve experienced with your current framework.
Step 4: Become afraid that you’ve chosen the wrong framework that will not have the best future, and think that maybe the grass is greener on the other side. You pick up a new framework and go back to step 1.
Step 5: Eventually break out of the Step 1-4 loop because you’ve settled on the “least bad” framework.
Step 6: Get JS fatigue, quit to learn a different language and focus on backend.
Why do I see myself doing this in the near future? 😢
This is literally me, started out with React, went through the loop… Started trying out Solid, then now Svelte…
Eventually if you build big enough apps with all of these frameworks, you’ll find very frustrating bottlenecks in every one of them.
Step 0: Don't know the basics of JS vanilla and how yo build sites without frameworks
I began with svelte / sveltekit, I thought I never would be using anything else until AstroJs lol, now I'm in love with it. I like to use: "Astro SSG + Alpine (for more simple jobs)", "Astro SSR + HTMX + Alpine (medium jobs) / Qwik instead Alpine when need more interactivity power to avoid Astro Island that in my case would be in Svelte, I think Qwik can make these jobs, is a little variant ", ".NET Razor Pages + HTMX + Alpine / Qwik (for more complex tasks). Qwik I'm still learning abou it, for now Alpine is doing all the job, Vanilla CSS (Freestyle) is my way to go, no tailwind, no bootstrap, just freestyle, I heard about Pico CSS to use like some default, but I have to know it first, to talk after :)
We don't need any more frontend frameworks (most of the new ones standout features are slowly being built into the big frameworks anyway), what we really need is some cleaning up of the backend js build process. Bun is not quite there yet unfortunately, Dealing every day with ESM vs CommonJS packages still, build errors, having extra compile steps for typescript, drowning in module dependencies... it's just so annoying and eating up so much time that is wholly unproductive.
Finally someone talks about this big problem.
"library and/or framework" is quite a mouthful. How about "lamework"?
Always write your own JS framework, so you can always stay up to date.
Just stick to one framework and build variety of apps with it, it doesnt make sense to learn all of these JS frameworks, it is endless 😅😂
Maxx, it's time to update Svelte course pls
I love Express. Especially when using Nest, where it just works :)
My strategy for managing this fatigue is to stick to one. One technology per use case. And then swap when you find a better one.
Currently it’s Node by default, Rust for performance. And Swift for iOS. It’s the same for frameworks:
Be
Nest for server side node., Warp for Rust, SolidJS for front end, and Apple’s stuff for iOS.
Keep it simple. If something better comes up, However, it’s easier to avoid the hype.
Hey max, i feel like there's a need for a course refresh in node just like your new go course.
The node right now is too chunky I feel.
Anyways thank you for your courses.
It seems to me that each new one has an interesting new take on how to solve a problem and any truely good solution gradually gets adopted by the other frameworks and so the difference between them is slowly smoothing out.
It's better to have choice than be forced to use something.. Never argue against choice.
where is the nestJs tutorial Max???? i need it and i need it from you … start to finish
Your svelte course showed me how easy web development could be after watching your angular one for a long time and not getting anything at all and hating it. That Svelte3 course was an amazing time saver when there was not much content about it at all. I still love using Svelte and now Kit with it and even though my main work uses angular, I can't stand it's archaic way of components, extremely stupid level or Rxjs usage and really bad life cycle model. I donno about the rest of the people but you did an amazing thing to me when I was looking for a source.
For better or worse, Svelte is one of the few non-jsx library on the market and I hear more and more devs who really dislike jsx.
to be honest javascript is a broken language to my eyes with a lot of weird behaviours. the notion that one language to run everything, frontend, backend, mobile it's good on paper but evidently not in practice. at least not by using javascript.
Most of it is a waste of time. Look at what companies are using it learn that then do the rest as a hobby. I prefer go
What's intriguing is your exclusive focus on frameworks within the JavaScript ecosystem. Have you considered exploring frameworks from other programming languages and making an overall comparison? I believe that would be quite helpful. Thank you! 👍🏻👍🏻
Php is making a massive comeback thanks to LARAVEL! I Love PHP 😊
By the way I’m one of your students Max 😊
how about elixir ? what do you think ? for me it's the only language that really delightful to work with
also has one framework that really dominant on their ecosystem, phoenix framework
You should have talked about AI here also, should we learn front end anymore when ChatGPT 5 comes out ?
i am worried about devin ai :(
In my opinion, React as part of Next.js or Remix, even though not the best options, is the least painful for a developer.
Remix is great and the community stands out
These videos are fantastic. I took a couple of your udemy courses early on in my coding journey and they helped me a lot.
Nooo, there could never be too many JS frameworks. The purpose of JS these days is to create, well, more JS frameworks. What else would JS be used for? lol
Guyssss how to get rid of imposter syndrome
Just time, and working with other people. I thought I was way better than I was when I first started working, then I started to feel useless, now I feel competent.
A big part of it is acknowledging your shortcomings but also acknowledging your wins when they happen.
Also, don't compare your middle to someone else's end.
Finally, it'll always be there at least a little bit.
Too many web frameworks for Max to make a course for each "Complete ...'!
I am coming from Udemy, I am one of your Udemy student
Your Vue.js class is what convinced me to leave .NET and make a career in the JS ecosystem which has been fun and lucrative.
"to leave .NET and make a career in the JS ecosystem". Understand if the goal is making a career with it. If it's because of personal taste, well, everyone has his own taste.
Respect ✊ ❤
Love you Max ❤
The reason that we have a lot of frontend frameworks, is because frontend development sucks, everyone hates it and has pain points.
thanks a lot
Yes, we did.
Love the videos
Love you man
. ❤ .