How Did People in Medieval Times Actually Siege a Castle in Reality
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Hearing Simon straight faced reading sections from the battles in Lord of the Rings knowing he absolutely hates it, is always funny to watch compared to Brain Blaze where he would be yelling at Danny with "Danny I told you no Elves and Orcs! Back to the Radiator!"
Come on, Staff. The verb is "besiege" or "lay siege". You're making your guy look dumb.
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"Siege" is not a verb.
One doesn't _siege_ a castle, one _besieges_ it.
“Besiege” is a word. You besiege a castle. And then the castle is under siege or besieged.
Castle defenders in Hollywood movies:
"Let's meet them out in the open field and throw away our advantage and all the money and manpower we spent building this fortification".
Well we spent all this money on it, we wouldn't want to get it ruined!
GOT reference , yk whats funny is that Tyrion calls out joffery during his wedding to show dwarfs fighting a poor immitation of the actual war. Guess what The show was a poor immitation of a book that didnt even finish
TL;DR that video of dogs snarling at each other through a gate and walking away as soon as the gate opened is a more realistic description of medieval siege warfare than any movie ever.
You ain't wrong.
Fukk that scam reply, btw.
I'm fairly sure people died during most of them
@@thomandstacieverroad8417 During most sieges there were little to no casualties, mostly just drawn out stale mates.
@@thomandstacieverroad8417actually when the walls fell (were secured by the attackers) more often than not the defenders would surrender and the deaths of the defenders was typically then more a result of the displeasure of their masters, be it the king or whoever else going "how dare you off with your head" or having had what remained of their food and any portable items of monetary value (small silver crosses, jewelery etc) taken so they couldn't go and buy food afterwards.
The majority of recorded deaths in European and Middle Eastern and North African sieges were the result of starvation or disease, with the next largest cause of deaths being fighting taking place outside of the fort or city from defenders sallying forth, or a reinforcing army attacking, and surprisingly often a reinforcing army would go "to heck with this" and instead besiege the the siege laying army since that army moreso than the city/castle defenders would have to live off of a supply line with little to no long term stores of food and certainly not secure ones that couldn't be targeted from afar.
And then the majority of deaths once a city/castle fell, actually were at the hands of the defenders own side, though with low food, poor health, and a high chance that they had their money taken from them (either as they're forced out of the castle or less impactfully as the sieging army moves on) there's likely a good number of misreported or entirely unrecorded deaths due to plague or starvation among the defender garrison after a siege.
Sun Tzu actually touched on this. Ruining your enemy’s plans is better then fighting. If you have to fight, do so as quickly and efficiently as possible, and the least efficient way to fight possible is to attack a fortification.
he also specifically mentions to avoid a siege if at all possible, recommending to ignore a castle if its position doesn't directly threaten resources or transport ways that are important to your endeavours.
@@windhelmguard5295 problem with ignoring a castle/fort is that the garrison can sally out to harass your forces.
This is why he states that you should never fight your enemy where they are.
Sun Tzu's teachings remind me of those workplace training videos teaching people the importance of hand-washing. Like, stuff that is obvious to 99% of people with a brain but still needs to be said because that 1% can end up causing a huge issue.
Never fight an enemy where they have the advantage.
Always take your enemy by surprise when possible.
Scrub your hands with soap and hot water for at least 30 seconds before preparing food.
@@no_nameyouknow I think it’s helpful to have the basics broken down and clarified for a solid foundation. Someone like Hannibal was really smart and could keep track of all those details in his head a lot better then most of his opponents. And also lots of people throughout history have ignored the basic advice and brought their armies or whole countries to ruin through sheer bravado. For example, Hitler would have done a lot better trying to follow Sun Tsu, since Sun Tsu recommends against politicians making military decisions and also says you should be as conservative as possible with resources. And that any military campaign should be as short and efficient as possible. But he was like, “Nah, we can conquer England and Russia at the same time”. They wrote down those guidelines because they saw the kinds of mistakes people were making, and people still make them all the time today.
Quite some time ago, I read a bit about Sun Tzu and some short translated excerpts; I don't remember the exact (translated) quote, but this is how I paraphrase it:
"A fair fight can go either way. A good general therefore avoids a fair fight at any cost."
How can you mention the siege of Rochester castle without talking about the method used to bring the walls down. They just didn't dig under the walls to weaken the structure above, they placed the carcasses of 40 pigs against the supporting posts and then set them on fire. The resulting heat brought the tower crashing down. The defenders eventually gave up before they succumbed to starvation. Quite ironic considering the amount of roast pork and bacon in the ruins of their castle.
Just imagine the smell. It's so rotten but they're so hungry!
@John Little people will literally cannibalize other DEAD humans, its pretty insane what people will eat when starving.
Imagine North Koreans 😔
@@jonhall2274 I've heard stories from NK defectors.
Theres a great little museum at Rochester detailing the siege.
Anyone who played Warband knows that to siege a castle you need to put exactly one ladder on its walls and have all your troops climb it very slowly
And you always make sure to storm the defenders who are making a last stand with fewer troops than they do.
And if they beat you after deliberately handicapping yourself in the final storming, you withdraw from the entire siege and declare defeat.
😂
Meanwhile in ikariam, you just send ships to run into the enemy open port
Will I watch an hour long video on Medieval sieges?
The thousands of hours I put into Total War says yes.
😂❤
And feel absolutely disappointed because apart the bare bones surrender mechanic in some games in the series doesn't deepen the surrender negotiation mechanic one bit.
My favorite story of how ridiculously difficult it is to assault a castle is the story of a dozen maids, 2 retainers, and a madam holding off an army of 500 for so long that they basically agreed to let the group leave unmolested if they gave them the castle. No ransom, no pillaging and killing. Just leave.
That made no sense.
@@brett4264 it was difficult to seige a castle that was barely defended, and ultimately the attackers said "give us the castle and you can all leave safely"
Unmolested
@@brett4264 You should learn to read then.
So GOT?
“Have fun storming the castle!”
“Think they can do it?”
“it’d take a miracle…”
This must be the longest today I found out of all time
It is our longest. :-) Only other video this long was one we made on our process for making these. :-)
Yeah let’s keep it brief guys
What a stroke of luck, I was just about to stroll down to Caerphilly and take the castle. I’ll listen to this on the way so I know what to do when I get there.
I'll bet after listening to this you were able to just walk through the front door!
People are adverse to dying so it makes sense that negotiations were preferable. Especially back when warfare was much more close and personal
This isn't the army where you shot someone from a mile away you have to go right up to them and boom you get blood all over your nice ivy league suit!
Actually this is the army and that does happen because guns haven't been invented yet
It was a time when you could die from a shallow scratch on your arm or just from riding your horse in the fog.
Can't we all just get along?
This is also where the phrase "Hoist (or hoisted) by your own petard" comes from.
A "petard" is literally a bucket of gunpowder that is used in sapping operations, and to be hoisted by it means doing something incorrectly while placing or lighting it and getting blown sky high. The name is an allusion to breaking wind.
Or as a certain artificial intelligence phrased it: "What's a petard?" "A type of siege explosive named for French flatulence."
Fun fact: it also means a joint. As in, those funky cigarettes you were warned about in school.
Pronounced "Peh-tar".
The act of conducting a siege is called besieging.
Thank you. Siege is a noun. You can besiege or lay siege to a castle. "Siege" used as a verb sounds weird.
@@scottmacphee35 Yes..... I also posted this. I should remember to read the other comments first😄
and the act of collecting honey from a hive is known as a beesiege
@@seermayton-el3488 Verry Nais
Mirrodin was besieged once
"Turns out, real humans don't like to die." OMG, that's a new classic
Probably the best movie reference to a siege I can recall is the movie Flesh and Blood. Small force holds a walled manor against a larger army for quite a while.
The Japanese in WW2 did not share that compunction, so I wouldn’t take that quotation to the bank. If you actually care at all, it’s detailed in Dan Carlin’s hardcore history: super nova in the east.
@@smeagle3295 Ah, but being WILLING to die is a far cry from WANTING to die... sadly, humans are also capable of wanting things and doing the exact opposite... like my money, I want to keep it... but then I have to pay the IRS.... so I pay the IRS because I believe that the consequences of not paying them are something worse and I also want to stay out of jail. It all comes down to what do you want more.
Thank you, Daven, for this 1-hour masterpiece.
What a shame it was too long for bonus facts. I would've liked a story about Black Agnes or whatever her name was.
my favourite “seige” was during the english civil war at stokesby castle. It was garrisoned by only a handful of men, and when an entire army showed up to capture the castle, the few men in the castle just went “fuck this” and handed the castle over bloodlessly
then it was a capitulation, and not a siege... Not an uncommon occurrence either.
The sieges of Badajoz and Ciudad Rodrigo by Wellington were sieges that the besieged lost with great loss of life on both sides. Wellington absolutely hated sieges but had a habit of winning.
Honestly the main reason I like that this channel is long-form now is because Simons serious voice makes me slide into the most restorative naps. I used to use Casual Criminalist for that but he's too upbeat during those now. They're now part of the channels that I only like when I'm awake.
Not just too upbeat.. the audio clips are quite jarring if you’re about to drift off.
💯
I had such misconceptions about what besieging a castle would entail. All I could imagine was something from Lord Of The Rings...
Very interesting, thanks for the vid. I couldn't help but miss the fact that the Roman period wasn't covered. They were famous for just building a ramp to the top of the walls while being protected by wood and hide structures. Simplicity itself.
Probably because this episode is just for the medieval period.
@@jo-vf8jx you do realise that the holy roman empire lasted until the end of WW1 right?
@@cassandrakarpinski9416 - For the record "The Holy Roman Empire" is neither Holy nor Roman. As for the OC, the Video is more on Castles, the Medieval kind. The Romans and other Empires at that time have walled cities and fortresses called Castra which are very different to a Castle.
@@inisipisTV my point was that a form of the roman empire was still present in the modern era and therefore existed during the medieval era
@@cassandrakarpinski9416 no, again the holy roman empire was not rome, its not even related.
A pedant writes:
You don’t ‘siege’ a castle. It’s a noun not a verb.
You lay siege to a castle, which is then ‘besieged’ or ‘under siege’.
Thanks, I came to say this.
I understand. Good for a chuckle though.
I love linguistic accuracy 👍
Siege is also a verb, ignoramus.
How about opening a dictionary before correcting others who are right?
@@kieronparr3403 Oh, you're ignorant too, then.
I'm not sure the Which-King of Angmar was at the battle for Helms Deep... Non the less, great video.
They would unscrew there sword pommels and throw them at the defenders.
They gave them a pommeling you say
And once the pommels were exhausted they would bring out the fire arrows.
@@01oo011 Unfortunately, fire arrows aren't particularly effective weapons. If they travel too fast, the fire goes out like blowing a candle. Even if they hit while still aflame, they won't have the penetrating power of regular arrows, and it may be hard for the fire to spread.
@@chrishakala528
*clears throat*
FIRE ARROWS!
CONTEXT!
Getting flashbacks to past Crusader Kings games.
Edit: Also, can I just say? Simon's deadpan references to LotR make me crack up; you'd never know he never watched the films nor read the books.
What about the petard? Kept expecting it, but it never arrived. Shakespeare even references it with his classic line from Hamlet, "Hoist with his own petard." The petard being an explosive device most often used to breach a door with the bomb-maker being accompanied and sheltered to the gates of the castle where he attached his bomb, lit the fuse, then ran. It was also used to try and punch a hole in a wall.
Since the act of placing Explosive on Castle doors is very dangerous job (where the defender can throw burning straws around it causing a premature ignition) basically it’s best Digging a Tunnel under, then either thru burning of the Support Beams or using Explosives. Most Petards are rather small and is usually used on thin walls or small doors, so usually the interior structures. Much better use a Cannon or Mortar since they’ve been invented earlier than the Petards.
Always very amused and impressed by how clever some of these solutions are. We always discount the sophistication of thought and analysis back then, but they had solutions and ideas I think someone of our soft, lazy time would struggle to come up with.
the human brain seems to be shrinking... by a third in the last 5000 years iirc. It's surmised that they were more creative, and intelligent than we are. Maybe to do with the fact that they actually had to solve their own problems, without recourse to paid for products and or tradesmen.
The late great Terry Jones of Monty Python fame wrote quite an entertaining book called Chaucer’s Knight which painted unflattering picture of the Medieval Knight. It reads a little like the true story behind A KNIGHT’S TALE, but you’ll certainly find out a few things from it.
A Knights Tale and Terry’s book are all based on Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales (though Terry’s take is a more humorous commentary)
Hal Foster revealed in his Prince Valiant comic that historically, having a natural source of water feed a moat was problematic, at best. One could just dam up the river for a week or so and then wash away the occupants when you released it.
Like what the Ents did in LOTR when they besieged Saruman’s Isengard (in the book specifically). That’s why most castle with a water Moat are usually besides Lakes or large Rivers that are very impossible to Dam them.
Most moats were dry iirc.
I discovered TIFO because my Mum was watching the video about Murphy's Law and then a video about knights I think.
This kind of awesome and random stuff is exactly what my ADHD can focus on!
If this is the only channel you've ever watch of Simon's and you're just discovering him you're in for a treat.
TIFO and toptenz are both classic
Brainblaze is amazing...you get to see him slip into pure madness and I would highly recommend.
The science of sciencefiction is pretty cool
Those are just a few of fact bois many many channels.
Fairly sure simon is adhd also (based upon brain blaze). Also explains why he has so many channels, ooh biographies are cool lets do a channel on tha... oh fun geography, definitely doing th...
This is a brilliant video.
It's a work of genius, getting so much information into such a short time.
Fun fact: The first contract with the English Crown to use the word "engineer" was an agreement to buildseige engines for The Harrying of the North in 1086.
Siege in game or in reality, the only thing i'm good at is blaming my guildies.
Sounds like Monty Python….”oy, what you be doing? We be sieging!”🤣🤣🤣
This is an excellent video for understanding the mechanics of Civilization VI
This is great. More like this, please.
Another aspect often overlooked is the logistics of supplying a castle. Many castles had no more than two soldiers guarding them during peacetime and that probably not even with a night shift!
Thus, doing a ladder rush when the enemy doesn't suspect it could be very effective. Plus, you can to some degree even do a night raid as ranged attacks don't do you much good in that scenario anyway.
Most European castles were AFAIK nothing more than a fortified house/keep with a wooden palisade and a few buildings (such as stables, workshops, etc.). It might have had only a single tower!
Any unmanned tower would only obscure the defender's vision. The same goes for the size and height of the walls. Most of them didn't survive to our time. Others got replaced bit by bit by stone castles and upgraded to chateaux.
Now, the stereotypical castle with 4 towers, one keep and one gatehouse would already require a dozen guards per shift as a bare minimum force to repel an attack! In that case, you have like 1 soldier per wall element or tower and if he's down, a section of the castle is left defenseless! With at least 3 shifts and 3 civilians for each guard (doing non-military but essential tasks, or being family members), you're already at well over 100 people that need to be supplied! Plus, 100 people or more in such a castle will make it terribly cramped and water and hygiene would become a huge problem. Similarly, it takes multiple villages to supply even such a mediocre castle, which in turn requires quite some land to supply themselves. This already gives a limitation to what a castle can effectively defend. Just imagine such a castle having a territory of 1 mile around it to defend. How many knights can they send out to prevent pillaging and scorched earth? Not many! Thus, a dozen men can already cause a lot of trouble by blocking the gate and the rest burning down the surroundings...
Another thing to point out is that star forts require a LOT more men and supplies. Also, the cannons are WAY more expensive than the already obscenely expensive knight armor and horse. Thus, cannons required a change to a better organization with had more efficient logistics, better-disciplined troops, and a MUCH stronger economy!
How difficult and complex was it to siege a castle in reality?? It was so difficult and complex that Simon had to make an almost hour-long Today I Found Out video about it!!!!
There is a similar pig story about Carcassonne Castle being besieged by the moors. The last pig was feed the last barrel of grain and was lobbed over the wall to the besieging Moors.
Like the cow in Holy Grail. Run away!
Happy Nye Simon, thanks for all your content in the last 12 months 👍
Their mothers where hamsters
I was actually an NBC Warfare Instructor for the Navy during a 22 year career. During the Bubonic plague, laying Siege to a castle was relatively easy. Dead bodies were simply catapulted over the walls and infected the residents inside over time. Patience paid off more than brute force and created fewer friendly casualties. Great video AGAIN!!!
Why do i get a feeling a certain ausie medieval enthusiast is about to make a response video
isn't the word BEsiege?
Siege is also a verb, ignoramus.
How about opening a dictionary before correcting others who are right?
@@frontenac5083 wow. i ask a question and you call me an ignoramus. who did I correct? do you not understand the meaning of a question mark? you ignoramus.is this how you ordinarily interact with people?
I’m trying to guess which elevator music is playing in Simon’s head while he reads this. LOL Lovely topic and video but I think this is not soaking into fact boy’s brain.
Simon, please just don't try with the Lord of thile rings stuff. Hearing you mispronounce the names is depressing.
Low key appreciative of the Nurgle philosophy when talking about biological warfare by the Tartar Mongols
He forgot the Romans, they sieged castles with no care alot of times, as each emperor had short time to reign and wanted glory.
Siege is a noun. I think you mean besiege...
According to Merriam-Webster, it is both a noun and a verb. Sieged; Sieging can be used as besiege.
@@Zoe-uz9kn Merriam-Webster is wrong...
I think you're an ignoramus for not knowing "siege" is also a verb.
Open a dictionary, simpleton.
Siege is also a verb, ignoramus.
How about opening a dictionary before correcting others who are right?
@@Zoe-uz9kn Absolutely!
Wow, at last someone who knows where to find and how to use a dictionary!
I played Mount and Blade. The real answer is to have all your Nord Huscarls pile on a ladder
You can see the pain in Simon's eyes as he is being forced to talk about The Lord of the Rings
I like the video but I think you mixed up Hugh Despenser with someone else. You said he got to keep his body intact when he VERY MUCH did not. He was hanged, drawn and quartered in 1329. You even have the picture of this event showing when you're talking about him. That's him on the ladder getting his insides removed.
I’m having visions of John Cleese running up to a castle wall in full chain mail and whacking it with a sword…. And then being mocked 😅
Mocked by also John Cleese but with a silly French accent!
Take a shot every time Simon says "negotiate".
Call out Shadiversity and other medieval experts out there for a commentary
Knight: prepare to be de-feeted.
Peasant: but you have beaten me.
Knight: you misheard me, I am going to de-feet you.
Peasant: ....
The witch king didn’t attack Helms deep(Hornburg)… it was Saruman’s forces
I mean, 1 hour about how how to siege a castle. Just dope af !
I'm realizing how much I say, "the past was the worst" in a great many conversations. Nod to Simon.
I am profoundly shocked Shadiversity has no comment on this video. His entire channel is dedicated to talking about subjects like this.
Does Shad know?
@@crazyeyez1502 Well if he doesn't, someone should inform him.
Do we think Simon was aware of when he was talking about LOTR?
Not likely
"Trade her left butt check." Thanks, Simon, I will add that to my repertoire.
For all intents And purpose. How did I have that wrong my whole life?!? I’m not even gonna say what I’ve been saying. Worse No one even notices
I love the point where you can see in Simon's face that he's thinking, What the hell crap did you just have me read? He has checked out and finishing that fantasy make believe comparison on auto read mode. You can clearly see the editor cutting right before Simon is about to go OFF! I would LOVE to see those cuts he had to make. The unedited uncensored video. Now that would certainly be entertaining, but demonetized.
Where in the video is this?
@@liamjohnston2000 Sorry, just noticed you commented back to me. Its at 29:46 to 30:33. You can hear in his voice and see in his eyes that he's lost interest with stories of elves and orcs. And right at the end of that segment, you can see him starting to throw his hands up.
16:17 An interesting illustration. The main fortified gate is recognisably Monk Bar, here in York, though prior to the later top storey it features today. The barbican doesn't match illustrations of the one it actually had, however, and the line of the wall leading away is wrong also (it follows the old Roman fortress wall and thus runs straight for a longer distance before turning a neat right angle at the north end). I wonder where it's from originally?
One of my fav zealot story is their endat masada. Mass suicide save the leader who surrendered rather than give to rome. The extinct judaen palm was revived from seeds found at the temple threshold
my dude...a 1hr long TIFO video
I was not prepared. Used to the like...9-15 minute stuff. XD
The way you people pronounce shit is so weird lol. "ChivALruss" ....I don't understand how certain words some use long vowels which sounds wrong, but other words use short vowels, which still sounds wrong for that word, but would be correct in the other ones!!!!! 0_o 🤪
I had a iBM PC video game in the early 90s called Joan of Arc. I didn't understand it, but the fun bit was defending a castle from an attack. Dumping tar and barrels over the side at attackers climbing a ladder.
I guess the title “The Negotiator” for William wasn’t cool and threatening enough, so they come up with “The Conqueror” instead.
My favourite of ways to break a seige if you're outside: have the sheer dumb luck to have the occupants of said fortress rely on a water supply you can control.
My favourite of ways to maintain a seige if you're inside: have the foresight to have control of your own water supply.
I feel clickbaited, your beard is clearly far more glorious in the video than it is in your thumbnail picture and I am appalled. More up to date thumbnail pics Whistle boy, less short beard clickbaiting.
I guarantee that Simon as no farking clue about most of the 100 lord of the rings references popped through this video.
Besiege, surely?
He's too prideful to edit the title lol
@@fgcpeak9591 Not pride. Simon simply doesn't care. He has said so many times, he truly doesn't give a damn about viewers who get all pedantic on him, because he's too busy putting out a dozen videos a week so he can get paid.
You can find a dictionary, surely?
Siege is also a verb, ignoramus.
How about opening a dictionary before correcting others who are right?
🤡
This title is redundant.
It is indeed!
At last a correct criticism!
Half the video was wasted saying how Hollywood got it wrong…I mean obviously they did but I don’t need 30mins of agony to know this blatantly obvious fact
tbh this just really hits the war as politics by any other means vibe
Three reference from Lord of the Rings and fact boy say them perfectly!!!
Siege is a noun. Besiege is the verb
It's also a verb.
And you are an idiot for not knowing "siege" is also a verb.
Siege is also a verb, ignoramus.
How about opening a dictionary before correcting others who are right?
🤡
Awesome episode. Good delivery. Good writing.
Gun powder you say, but how can fire undo stone. (whilst walking towards a bomb with a candle)
Loved the holy grail reference 🤣 no go away or I shall taunt you for a second time (in a French accent lol)
I'm starting to think Simon's writers include so many LotR references just to annoy him, lol
What about Monty Python and the Holy Grail? They just ran at the castle wall and hit it with swords. It works in Age of Empires II, so it must be real!
All about MACHICOLATIONS!
I've read in an old book a much easier way to bring the walls down; just use some trumpets.
In Florida we'd just wait for the attackers to be drained of blood by the mosquitos.
I’d say the king of siege engines is the Hwacha. Literally launched javelins using rockets at enemies. Ancients Koreans be scary yo.
During the 100 years war the English were able to lay siege to Orleans with an army that was probably smaller than the one defending it. They likely would have gotten the city to surrender too if not for that crazy Joan of Arc reminding the French defenders they had the advantage in numbers.
"My father, in his great wisdom, told me that I only need de-feet the subjects of my enemies and they will not be able to stand. I am sure this is what he meant."
Dude your great for a 10 minute video. But it becomes white noise after that
I had heard of burial at sea, but burial at siege sound crazy.
an hour of awesomeness 👏
Super hard to siege a castle unless your name is Genghis Khan
Anyone else have 10 duel commandments start playing in their heads while simon keeps explaining the negotiations (more like the 10 seige commandments 😂😂)
The most romantic version of a castle defence has to be David Gemmel's first novel : legend. Thank me later
Thanks for the info ! My time machine is ready, wish me luck !
just watched monty python holy grail, timely video post lol
Wow Simons beard has gotten so long looks good tho but I bet he gets a lot of food and drink caught up in it I know I do and my Beard isn't close to being as long as his lmao
One of my favorite sieges was when Rome attack Mt. Masada in Israel.
It was a fortress on top of a mountain, which was impenetrable. The Roman's built a wall around the city to starve them out, but they were to well stocked. So the Roman's, built a gaint ramp (which is still the to this day) up to the top of the mountain, to get their siege engines up there. And once they broke through, to their surprise, all but one person were dead.
Put a bunch of rakes at the bottom of a dry moat. Best defense ever !