Dave, I will always be grateful to you for letting me know about these Brahms/Giulini/LA releases. After reading, years ago, your eloquent reviews on ClassicsToday, I chased them. At the time they were readily available only in not-so-great-sounding cd-R releases by Arkiv, but I was absolutely floored by the quality of the performances. They are exactly as you describe them, and they have been a prized part of my Brahms collection ever since. (subsequently I got the Japanese shm-cd’s , and they sound stunning)
Didn't know this recording, so gave a listen. Very beautiful phrasing, balance and style choices, the work just seems to flow very agreeably. Thanks for turning me on to this version!
I re-listened (twice) but don't get it. Way too lacking in tension & drive to my ears. I think his outstanding recordings are the 2 Mozart operas & the Verdi Requiem. I'm much more ambivalent about his efforts in symphonic repertoire. He tends to remind me of the kind of guy you most definitely do not want to be stuck behind in heavy traffic...
Thanks for the well-deserved praise for Giulini's Los Angeles recording of the Brahms second symphony, a great, thoughtful performance like his Brahms first from Los Angeles. It is certainly true that the tradition of the German and Austrian orchestras is not to play the exposition repeats in the Brahms symphonies. An interesting exception is the recordings of the Brahms symphonies with the Vienna Philharlmonic conducted by Istvan Kertesz and Pierre Monteux's recording of the second symphony with the Vienna Philharmonic, all these for English Decca.
I listened to many recordings of #2 but never had a chance to hear Giulini with LAPO. Now it's a must, thank you, Mr. Hurwitz! Among other great recordings: - Pierre Monteux/London SO [Decca/Philips] (also better than Monteux/Vienna) - Bruno Walter/Columbia SO [Sony] - Leonard Bernstein/Vienna PO [Sony] (now the Viennese responded quite well to Bernstein's passionate conducting)
When I was first getting to know the Brahms symphonies--about a thousand year ago--I was struck by how different the first two are from each other. It's as if, after the long ordeal of finishing the first, the second was genial and lyrical in part because, with the first one finally out of the way, Brahms could relax and let the music just flow. In those last few minutes of the 4th movement, I've always heard laughter.
Thanks, the LAPO #1 was my first Brahms LP I bought when about 14 or 15. Loved it, but haven't listened since the 80s and never heard #2. Need to check it out! FWIW, the digital Karajan #2 is my absolute favorite, so maybe Giulini will supplant that.
This was my first love with the symphony genre when I was a teenager and the Bernstein Vienna in DG was its agent. Having heard that recording in my later years, I find so incredibly slow. Funny how that changes
I've always found the slow movement to be Brahms' greatest. And the finale may be exciting, but there is that frenetic side too, like it's protesting a bit too much. I've always been partial to Karajan's final recording, but haven't heard this Guilini one yet. It with the First was rather written off by a lot of critics at the time
It was interesting to compare this Giulini-LA to my favorite Abbado-Berlin recording ( Brahms: The Four Symphonies). I found the Giulini to be among the best I've heard, but prefer the Abbado. The style of both conductors is quite similar, though Giulini is a bit slower in all movements. I find the Abbado recording far superior in sonics - it was recorded in 1989, 15 years later than the Giulini - and has more drive and rhythmic variation. My favorite recordings of the 4 Brahms symphonies are the wartime recordings of Furtwangler, and Abbado is the closest I've found from the modern era. Thank you for all your music reviews!
The You Tube version of this is sonically pretty awful, but two things stood out for this particular Bruno Walter fancier: 1) the rubato and the orchestral balances are more-or-less just right; and 2) if you up the speed about 10%, everything else is pretty good as well 😎 (Mind you, I'm also the kind of guy who plays his L.A. Phil. version of Beethoven's Eroica even slower than he recorded it)
De acuerdo, estimado David. Como curiosidad, esta versión de Giulini (con los Ángeles) es mucho mejor que sus otras versiones con Viena, por ejemplo. De tal manera que no necesariamente las orquestas europeas hacen mejor interpretaciones de compositores europeos 😉
Hi Dave, Don't you think the repeat in the first movement has a negative effect on the movements' proportions? Or is it only a problem for swifter interpretations? I had the feeling from your past reviews that in this symphony it was not desirable.
I do think it's better without the repeat, but if the performance is otherwise great I don't think it matters much. In general, I think this issue is exaggerated if only because it's such an obvious point that allows people to fuss over.
Personally, I can't stand recordings that skip the repeat in the 2nd, it's one of the best considered and most sublime exposition repeats in the repertoire as far as I'm concerned, and any performance that excludes it just falls a little flat out of the gate for me
i understand what you mean, but I also think the balance of the symphony is important. So if you consider it to be a lightweight springlike symphony with swift tempos, the exposition repeat really adds a lot of weight to it. I mean with the repeat it is the longest Brahms symphony, without it is kind of the shortest. So the repeat in the Giulini approach seems fine, but it would seem odd in the Walter type approach. So the real question is how you look at the piece. I myself have no hard opinion on the matter, but the 2nd seems to me to have less gravitas than either the first or the fourth (and maybe even the third).
Brahms sunshine symphony, he must have written the finale in a beerhall. I agree with you on this, Giulini's other greatest recording EVER is Schubert's 9th with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes. If there is a candidate for Giulini's Other Greatest recording from Los Angeles, my vote would be Schumann's Rhenish Symphony. And I agree with you totally about this recording of Brahms 2. It reveals facets of this symphony that I didn't know were there. A revelation.
I find Giulini's way of carefully molding each phrase to be distracting from the qualities the critic is calling attention to, but I recognize that as a personal touch not the overall effectiveness of the performance. So what about artistic truth vs. personal preference? I think too many people implicitly say there is no such thing as "truth" when it comes to preferences, yet it seems that if the interpretation has something to say there must be some truth to it, a thing which can actually be considered objectively, isn't it?
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Slow, granitic, huge and yet leisurely and graceful. What a treat! It brings tears to my eyes!
Dave, I will always be grateful to you for letting me know about these Brahms/Giulini/LA releases. After reading, years ago, your eloquent reviews on ClassicsToday, I chased them. At the time they were readily available only in not-so-great-sounding cd-R releases by Arkiv, but I was absolutely floored by the quality of the performances. They are exactly as you describe them, and they have been a prized part of my Brahms collection ever since. (subsequently I got the Japanese shm-cd’s , and they sound stunning)
Didn't know this recording, so gave a listen. Very beautiful phrasing, balance and style choices, the work just seems to flow very agreeably. Thanks for turning me on to this version!
Now that's a curve ball! Tough field with Jochum, Klemperer, Walter, as well as Sanderling & many others. I'll dig it out & have another listen...
I re-listened (twice) but don't get it. Way too lacking in tension & drive to my ears. I think his outstanding recordings are the 2 Mozart operas & the Verdi Requiem. I'm much more ambivalent about his efforts in symphonic repertoire. He tends to remind me of the kind of guy you most definitely do not want to be stuck behind in heavy traffic...
Thanks, always thought Kurt Sanderling and Staatskappella Dresden is pretty dark. Curios to hear this one
Thanks for the well-deserved praise for Giulini's Los Angeles recording of the Brahms second symphony, a great, thoughtful performance like his Brahms first from Los Angeles. It is certainly true that the tradition of the German and Austrian orchestras is not to play the exposition repeats in the Brahms symphonies. An interesting exception is the recordings of the Brahms symphonies with the Vienna Philharlmonic conducted by Istvan Kertesz and Pierre Monteux's recording of the second symphony with the Vienna Philharmonic, all these for English Decca.
I listened to many recordings of #2 but never had a chance to hear Giulini with LAPO. Now it's a must, thank you, Mr. Hurwitz!
Among other great recordings:
- Pierre Monteux/London SO [Decca/Philips] (also better than Monteux/Vienna)
- Bruno Walter/Columbia SO [Sony]
- Leonard Bernstein/Vienna PO [Sony] (now the Viennese responded quite well to Bernstein's passionate conducting)
When I was first getting to know the Brahms symphonies--about a thousand year ago--I was struck by how different the first two are from each other. It's as if, after the long ordeal of finishing the first, the second was genial and lyrical in part because, with the first one finally out of the way, Brahms could relax and let the music just flow. In those last few minutes of the 4th movement, I've always heard laughter.
Thanks, the LAPO #1 was my first Brahms LP I bought when about 14 or 15. Loved it, but haven't listened since the 80s and never heard #2. Need to check it out! FWIW, the digital Karajan #2 is my absolute favorite, so maybe Giulini will supplant that.
This was my first love with the symphony genre when I was a teenager and the Bernstein Vienna in DG was its agent. Having heard that recording in my later years, I find so incredibly slow. Funny how that changes
I've always found the slow movement to be Brahms' greatest. And the finale may be exciting, but there is that frenetic side too, like it's protesting a bit too much.
I've always been partial to Karajan's final recording, but haven't heard this Guilini one yet. It with the First was rather written off by a lot of critics at the time
It was interesting to compare this Giulini-LA to my favorite Abbado-Berlin recording ( Brahms: The Four Symphonies). I found the Giulini to be among the best I've heard, but prefer the Abbado. The style of both conductors is quite similar, though Giulini is a bit slower in all movements. I find the Abbado recording far superior in sonics - it was recorded in 1989, 15 years later than the Giulini - and has more drive and rhythmic variation. My favorite recordings of the 4 Brahms symphonies are the wartime recordings of Furtwangler, and Abbado is the closest I've found from the modern era. Thank you for all your music reviews!
Bernstein had the VPO take the exposition repeat in 1983. They must have sworn never to allow it again after that ;)
The You Tube version of this is sonically pretty awful, but two things stood out for this particular Bruno Walter fancier:
1) the rubato and the orchestral balances are more-or-less just right; and 2) if you up the speed about 10%, everything else is pretty good as well 😎
(Mind you, I'm also the kind of guy who plays his L.A. Phil. version of Beethoven's Eroica even slower than he recorded it)
WOW! Quel surprise! I thought sure you would opt for Walter or Steinberg. Ha!
off but related topic: Dave have you done either a survey or best recommended for brahms four serious songs ?
Not yet.
De acuerdo, estimado David. Como curiosidad, esta versión de Giulini (con los Ángeles) es mucho mejor que sus otras versiones con Viena, por ejemplo. De tal manera que no necesariamente las orquestas europeas hacen mejor interpretaciones de compositores europeos 😉
Apropos granitic, what do you think on Celibdiache’s take on the Brahms 2? It’s a performance of similar proportions.
But it's excruciatingly dull.
Hi Dave,
Don't you think the repeat in the first movement has a negative effect on the movements' proportions?
Or is it only a problem for swifter interpretations?
I had the feeling from your past reviews that in this symphony it was not desirable.
I do think it's better without the repeat, but if the performance is otherwise great I don't think it matters much. In general, I think this issue is exaggerated if only because it's such an obvious point that allows people to fuss over.
Personally, I can't stand recordings that skip the repeat in the 2nd, it's one of the best considered and most sublime exposition repeats in the repertoire as far as I'm concerned, and any performance that excludes it just falls a little flat out of the gate for me
i understand what you mean, but I also think the balance of the symphony is important. So if you consider it to be a lightweight springlike symphony with swift tempos, the exposition repeat really adds a lot of weight to it. I mean with the repeat it is the longest Brahms symphony, without it is kind of the shortest. So the repeat in the Giulini approach seems fine, but it would seem odd in the Walter type approach. So the real question is how you look at the piece. I myself have no hard opinion on the matter, but the 2nd seems to me to have less gravitas than either the first or the fourth (and maybe even the third).
I am not at all familiar with Giulini's Brahms. Your talk has certainly whetted my appetite.
Brahms sunshine symphony, he must have written the finale in a beerhall. I agree with you on this, Giulini's other greatest recording EVER is Schubert's 9th with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
I find that Schubert 9th to be lethally boring.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes. If there is a candidate for Giulini's Other Greatest recording from Los Angeles, my vote would be Schumann's Rhenish Symphony. And I agree with you totally about this recording of Brahms 2. It reveals facets of this symphony that I didn't know were there. A revelation.
I find Giulini's way of carefully molding each phrase to be distracting from the qualities the critic is calling attention to, but I recognize that as a personal touch not the overall effectiveness of the performance. So what about artistic truth vs. personal preference? I think too many people implicitly say there is no such thing as "truth" when it comes to preferences, yet it seems that if the interpretation has something to say there must be some truth to it, a thing which can actually be considered objectively, isn't it?