I'd just like to say that the HIFIMAN Sundara has a serious design flaw that introduces frequent driver failures on many units, I have owned Two Hifiman Sundaras and have had three driver failures, it seems to be a very common issue amongst owners of this headphone, so regardless of how good it sounds for 500 dollars I would recommend avoiding it, at least until Hifiman can sort out these issues.
The reliability of planar headphones in general seems to be a problem. I don't know enough about the manufacture of them, but it seems like only Fostex and MrSpeakers have been able to keep costs down (to varying degrees obviously) and make them reliably.
August 2020: there is a vastly improved revision-Ordered some for $349 shipped. If I need more bass I digitally EQ for precision, not just a general 40hz boost.
@@bxg8097 They are my 2nd favorite set of headphones at any price. They have better detail, clarity and realism than anything i've heard or owned under $599 a pair. My favorite set of headphones are $1500. I use the sundara for my movies/gaming when I am not using speakers.
Purchased mine for $280 on sale over here, new batch from Hifiman. Hoping if there's any issue it will show up within a year for warranty claim purpose.
I just got a pair of Sundara and I’m really impressed with them. I think an easy and significant upgrade is to get a better cable. I’ve built one using Canare guitar cable and Rean connectors that work well and sound much smoother and “bigger” than the stock cables.
I ended up liking the HD660S over the Sundaras. But it was a tough choice :).... actually not really. I had the 660s and thought the Sundaras were better but in the end I enjoyed the 660s just a tad bit more. Mainly for long term comfort.
After years of watching videos and trying out a handful of options, I've come to the realisation that apart from the difference between closed/open back (to my surprise I prefer closed or iems), I can hardly tell between different cans. Which is a relief tbh.
Great reviews bro'. If you have to chose from the Sundara, Ananda, Focal Elex, Aeon Flow Open or LCD 2 C for a daily driver which one you will pick, better yet, in which order. Thanks advance!
Amazing cans. Have compared them with he 560. They were really damn close. Still I went with he 560. But in range of 500 $ I don't see many competitors
Well the audeze Mobius are 100usd less and wireless too. I would like to see how the 2 compete considering they are some of the cheaper Planar out there.
@ManyProphets OneMessage I'm sure I'm late to the reply to your question and you probably have figured it out by now but most modern TVs including the Sony X900e has optical digital output, you can then connect that to a DAC that has an optical digital input and connect your Sundara to the DAC if it has an built in AMP, if it's a pure DAC then you'll also need an dedicated headphone AMP and connect that to the DAC and plug the headphone into the AMP. Sundara does need a good AMP for good sound so I wouldn't go too cheap on the DAC/AMP.
I am wondering about these HiFiMan Sundara in comparison to the Audio Technica ATH-R70x (both now about $350 US), and also the Massdrop HD-6XX headphones?
Nice review! I tried the Sundaras, and I have the same problem with them with basically any Hifiman headphone: they have a 2k dip (or let's say a less than healthy increase in the FR if you follow the Harman curve), which makes everything - particularly rock guitars - a bit distant sounding. It creates a pleasing listening effect, but for me many times too pleasing. It is not so obvious with jazz a classical, but if you listen to a lot of rock, you will notice it easily. And if you check their graphs, this trait is common in every Hifiman headphone up to the Susvara. Other than that I think it is a good value.
Thanks for that observation. I haven't been listening to rock lately. The 2khz region is also why Grados were so fun with rock music, as it was the resonance frequency of the standard L-pads, causing a bit of emphasis in that region.
Some headphones cords use a balanced XLR plug. Usually a balanced line eliminates hum for musician's equipment. I wonder about this for use in a headphone amp. I think it is more about the cord being securely held, what are the audio differences if any? By the way I like your review.
A balanced headphone output does not help reduce interference such as hum in the same way that balanced inputs work. Where a balanced headphone output can help is when powering headphones that are difficult to drive. The Sundaras reviewed here are, however, pretty easy to drive so buying a balanced lead and driving them that way will probably offer no benefit sound wise.
@@axelfoley1768 HE560 needs very serious amping, only the top current amp could be able to tame its treble so it always sounds harsh for many people on lower amp
I have both of them i like them both. HD660s sound smoother more realistic with smaller soundstage and in your head vocals. Sundara sound metalic more bright soundstage is big and sepperation is also bigger on Sundara. The easy way to discribe it its like SUndara sound like digital clean version of a song inside a studio and HD 660s sound like u listen in real life singer in front of you and so natural analogue sound.
Hi currawong. Have you ever listened to shure srh1540? I have one and want to know other headphones compare to it (and narrow down the best companion). I love the way they reproduce subtle sounds like claps, thunders (surprisingly good vertical staging) and how they stage,image and layer, especially with binaural recordings of stuff like shpongle. And most importantly they sound unforced and are not fatiguing. Despite their u shaped signature at 90db measurements, they sound natural at my listening volume of 70-75db and don't have any wierd places of ringing or peaks and dips in the middle. I know they kind of break up, lose a bit of imaging and sound nasal at higher volumes but I'm a low volume listener so I love it and it helps that their fully sealed chamber has less force to deal with at those volumes (so better staging). And best of all, they are actually comfortable at under 300g.
Someone else asked me about the 1540's a week ago funnily enough. I only listened to them many years ago and I just don't remember what they were like. They might be a good candidate for a future review though.
Currawong oh.. could be me 😛. That said. Yeah they're pretty damn good, especially with regards to space representation (things can sound close and far away at the same time) and I remember occulus using them when demoing their rift for the first time (pretty sure their space representation is the reason for it). I don't have much points of reference - the only other good HP/iem I've owned is the gr07. I also have a hd598 but I find them inferior to gr07 and waaay inferior to srh1540 (staging and imaging included). Only thing not so great about srh1540 is that it is tuned for low volume listening. At lower volumes the chamber absorbs most of the backwaves leaving a very clean signal to the ears. Higher volumes not so great but still quite decent.
VS 660s I have both of them i like them both. HD660s sound smoother more realistic with smaller soundstage and in your head vocals. Sundara sound metalic more bright soundstage is big and sepperation is also bigger on Sundara. The easy way to discribe it its like SUndara sound like digital clean version of a song inside a studio and HD 660s sound like u listen in real life singer in front of you and so natural analogue sound all instruments blend together doesnt have that air between them like Sundara have . Its all about taste.
It's been waaaaaaaaaaay too long since I have tried any Oppo cans unfortunately. I did find the Oppos to bit a bit too dark for my tastes, so at least for sonics I like the Sundaras better. If only they were as comfortable as the Oppo.
Currawong thank you. I agree, the PM-2 is way too dark for me. I have wanted a pair and bought them my first opportunity. I didn’t like them from first listen. So, I made the trade. Hoping the Sundara is comfortable enough. The PM-2 is a very comfortable headphone. Cheers and thanks again. Love your videos. I appreciate your candor.
Hi, do you know if the Sony NW-ZX300 can drive this headphones I have the Sony, and I may also get the FiiO M11 pro or the M15 wich one do you think will work better with this headphones? Thank you
Hi, im thinking about picking on one of these. Would a schitt stack (using schitt Vali) be a good pair? I'm don't have much knowledge when it comes too headphones.
Great review. Do you find that the vocal reproduction of these headphones is recessed and not forward/prominent? I find vocals get a bit lost in the mix. Cheers
Go for the Drop HE4XX @ $130 compared to $350(today Sandara's price), use and equalize the 4XX, it will come close to Sundara, saves you money. Saves even more money if you get a refurbished or 2nd hand one. A Headphone based on the planar technology sounds different compared to a traditional headphone, so get one to experience it so no need to get an expensive model, it's all a con.
Anyone have some reasonably priced cable suggestion for single-ended use? My cord has come apart after two weeks of careful use, and Hifiman doesn't seem to return customer service emails.
You only talked about using them with portable dac amps but yet with the AFO and elears you use your desktop gear so to see f they can keep up with $800 stuff you got to use them on the same gear. These aren’t made to be portable they’re open back planars so most will use them at their desk with desktop amps. The cascades on the other hand are closed back and made to be used portable or at a desk but not these
You have a good point. However the portable gear available now has pretty good performance with full-sized headphones. What I'm missing in what I have here is mid-range desktop gear, something that will change soon. Then you'll see reviews of that gear with the Sundaras.
I've been running my HE400Is on two different headphone amps, my older Fiio Kilimanjaros and a new Topping NX1 I just got recently. They are infinitely improved on both, but, they are reaching the limits at times of driving those cans. I'm sure the Sundaras would be even more demanding. I think the best use for the Hifimans is to run them through the most powerful, beefiest desktop amp/DAC you can get. They can go portable too, but they are really designed to be driven by some stationary, more powerful amps and equipment. You cannot judge these headphones on portable equipment. I mean, you can, but you're never going to hear them really shine like running them through truly powerful amp or home receiver. Without the headphone amps, I can barely get any power out of the 400Is on the phone or my lossless player. I have also run the Hifiman 400Is through my Sony home theater (a basic 100-200 watt one nothing gigantic), with the head amp in the chain, the combination of which makes the lowly Sony HT sound infinitely better than it should, and it has tons of power that way, without much distortion, amazingly, but I'm not cranking it, just wanted a decent boost for movies, and it delivered that.
Hifiman Ananda by far. It’s what the Edition X V2 should have always been. It’s basically a less fancy and easier to drive HEK V2 with slightly thicker mids and even smoother treble for 1/3 the cost. I own the HEK V2, and prefer the Ananda. It’s Fang’s best sounding Hifiman to date (not named Susvara) in my opinion.
The bottom line, there are still no good midrange headphones. People use more and more in-ear phones for portable use. I only wonder, how they compare with Focal Elear, which are lots used ones available on Ebay now for the same price
Why don't you get into making a headphone kind of like zmf you know your stuff and I really think you can make something special happen with your knowledge.
funny, had elex found it had a really bizarre and annoying soundstage almost like everything was echoing had to send mine back because of that and bass clipping which is a real issue with that headphone and a major design flaw from focal, and the aeon flow open sounded well a bit bloated in the bass and didn't sound that open then theres also the treble spike.
If I recall correctly, the Elex and other Focal cans were designed without restrictions against clipping so that the dynamics wouldn't be restricted. If you're clipping the Elex, then you'd have to be listening at very dangerous levels, or listening at loud volumes to music with excessive bass. The Aeon series can be tuned to a degree. If you found the Open to have too much bass, you'd like the closed version.
after 100 ish hours of burn in , the aeon open i had feels much tighter and the treble no longer bothers me. But it does still sound more isolated compared to other open backs which is a deal breaker for some
neutral is neutral, meaning if you were to plot from 10hz-20khz, it would be 0db a crossed the scale. people assume neutral is based on their ears and how they hear. like if a headphone had +6db at 8000hz and your ears have trouble hearing around 8000hz so it sound neutral to you.... thats not neutral. in the car world, you can take 5 different speaker brands, all 100 watts rms, same sensitivity, same frequency RANGE, polks are more mellow, infinity has bright highs, kicker is muddy with good bass. yet if you use an eq, you can literally make them all sound exactly the same..... which is why i laugh at headphone snobs. you buy an amp/dac and headphones based on your own perception of what sounds good. doesnt mean you have the best. which is where swapping opamps comes in, because you can flavor your music to suit your preference, much like using an equalizer. ive had beyer dynamic dt990 edition, ehich are open ear. essentially no bass. great for old people who think bass is bad. i had some Sennheiser 959, again, open ear and no bass. and these are budget cans. if you try to equalize in bass, they rattle and pop because they cannot handle it. so now, my current headphones are sony mdr-xb950ap which are wired "extra bass" headphones which if you pull up a performance graph, has about +8 db from 31hz to 150hz, very very bassy. now i used that graph to neutralize those headphones so each frequency is 0db. no gain no loss. they sound better than the beyerdynamic AND the Sennheiser, and was cheaper than both by a good margin.... Eqing the beyerdynamics and Sennheisers they jjst could NOT do bass, even at 0db "neutral".... now on the other hand, my brother purchased the sennheiser 800s reference. out of the box they are close to scientific neutral, and the bass was there. i was so surprised. because its natural bass, yet cheaper "audiophile headphones" cannot even do neutral bass, they all have sharp roll off that you cannot fix with eq unless you want the driver to crack, rattle, and pop. only downside is the ridiculous $1600 pricetag. insane price for headphones imo. he had the sennheiser hd700 before those, and even the 700s had NO NATURAL BASS. eq to 0db natural bass and the driver rattles..... and those were 800 dollars. so I LAUGH at audio snobs who say one brand is better or you NEED a dac/amp.... its bullshit and subjective. my 300 dollar soundcard is capable of 10hz to 45khz, most dac/amp combos in the same price range do not! and funny thing is people listen to audio snobs then listen to low quality mp3s..... hilarious. not calling YOU an audio snob. just in general. my sundaras come today. will be my first planar magnetic headphones. will see how they sound plugged in no eq, then i have the performance graph to eq them to true neutral if need be. side note, my sonys after eq sound very similar to my brothers 1600 sennheisers. the main difference comes down to comfort, since the sennheisers are extremely comfy and lightweight, and the sound stage. the sonys sound direct, left/right, while the sennheisers make you feel like you are in a room NOT wearing headphones.....
Some people consider it a big deal, though more so if spending $1k plus on headphones. If they don't look and feel good (as well as sound good) people think that they have wasted their money.
I'd just like to say that the HIFIMAN Sundara has a serious design flaw that introduces frequent driver failures on many units, I have owned Two Hifiman Sundaras and have had three driver failures, it seems to be a very common issue amongst owners of this headphone, so regardless of how good it sounds for 500 dollars I would recommend avoiding it, at least until Hifiman can sort out these issues.
This is a very common Chinese SME quality assurance: quality is all over the place. No concept of six sigma....
MADE IN CHINA
The reliability of planar headphones in general seems to be a problem. I don't know enough about the manufacture of them, but it seems like only Fostex and MrSpeakers have been able to keep costs down (to varying degrees obviously) and make them reliably.
Don't blame planar technology. Audeze is doing better and better. Problem is mostly Hifiman.
Typical hifiman qc issues. I will never buy there crap again.
August 2020: there is a vastly improved revision-Ordered some for $349 shipped. If I need more bass I digitally EQ for precision, not just a general 40hz boost.
How r they?
@@bxg8097 They are my 2nd favorite set of headphones at any price. They have better detail, clarity and realism than anything i've heard or owned under $599 a pair. My favorite set of headphones are $1500. I use the sundara for my movies/gaming when I am not using speakers.
@@scottlowell493 thats great! Good for you :))
Purchased mine for $280 on sale over here, new batch from Hifiman. Hoping if there's any issue it will show up within a year for warranty claim purpose.
their beauty was what attracted me. my whole studio is industrial. was sold on the great sound
I just got a pair of Sundara and I’m really impressed with them. I think an easy and significant upgrade is to get a better cable. I’ve built one using Canare guitar cable and Rean connectors that work well and sound much smoother and “bigger” than the stock cables.
I ended up liking the HD660S over the Sundaras. But it was a tough choice :).... actually not really. I had the 660s and thought the Sundaras were better but in the end I enjoyed the 660s just a tad bit more. Mainly for long term comfort.
After years of watching videos and trying out a handful of options, I've come to the realisation that apart from the difference between closed/open back (to my surprise I prefer closed or iems), I can hardly tell between different cans. Which is a relief tbh.
Great to see another review from you Currawong, really liking your videos more and more! Keep up the good work!
Hi nice review, are these much better than the hifiman 400i?
Thanks currawong. Really great review. Glad you describe match with different sound sources.
Great reviews bro'. If you have to chose from the Sundara, Ananda, Focal Elex, Aeon Flow Open or LCD 2 C for a daily driver which one you will pick, better yet, in which order. Thanks advance!
Man i was nervous asf when he was rough housing the headphones, I know personally how fragile hifiman are LOL
Have you tried the Beyerdynamic DT 1990? They're another strong option in this price bracket.
I should. A few people have asked me about them.
Currawong You still should.... :)
Amazing cans. Have compared them with he 560. They were really damn close. Still I went with he 560. But in range of 500 $ I don't see many competitors
The 560s are dogshit.
boobio1 how, explain
Well the audeze Mobius are 100usd less and wireless too. I would like to see how the 2 compete considering they are some of the cheaper Planar out there.
boobio1 baseless shit opinion is shit
@ManyProphets OneMessage I'm sure I'm late to the reply to your question and you probably have figured it out by now but most modern TVs including the Sony X900e has optical digital output, you can then connect that to a DAC that has an optical digital input and connect your Sundara to the DAC if it has an built in AMP, if it's a pure DAC then you'll also need an dedicated headphone AMP and connect that to the DAC and plug the headphone into the AMP. Sundara does need a good AMP for good sound so I wouldn't go too cheap on the DAC/AMP.
I am wondering about these HiFiMan Sundara in comparison to the Audio Technica ATH-R70x (both now about $350 US), and also the Massdrop HD-6XX headphones?
Nice review! I tried the Sundaras, and I have the same problem with them with basically any Hifiman headphone: they have a 2k dip (or let's say a less than healthy increase in the FR if you follow the Harman curve), which makes everything - particularly rock guitars - a bit distant sounding. It creates a pleasing listening effect, but for me many times too pleasing. It is not so obvious with jazz a classical, but if you listen to a lot of rock, you will notice it easily. And if you check their graphs, this trait is common in every Hifiman headphone up to the Susvara. Other than that I think it is a good value.
Thanks for that observation. I haven't been listening to rock lately. The 2khz region is also why Grados were so fun with rock music, as it was the resonance frequency of the standard L-pads, causing a bit of emphasis in that region.
Time for ananda.
Do you ever tryed the Ananda ? I would love to know what you think about the Ananda ? Is it as good or better then the Sundara ? Awesome review btw !
And how i thought about the new hinge systems could finally justify splurging 1k on the new Anandas, but the creaks... ohh gawd.
Some headphones cords use a balanced XLR plug. Usually a balanced line eliminates hum for musician's equipment. I wonder about this for use in a headphone amp. I think it is more about the cord being securely held, what are the audio differences if any? By the way I like your review.
It's more to do with a circuit design choice which requires a plug without a common ground/signal return.
A balanced headphone output does not help reduce interference such as hum in the same way that balanced inputs work. Where a balanced headphone output can help is when powering headphones that are difficult to drive. The Sundaras reviewed here are, however, pretty easy to drive so buying a balanced lead and driving them that way will probably offer no benefit sound wise.
VERY curious about the Anandas just released at $999. Will you get your hands on those anytime soon?
I was thinking the same thing. I really need a pair of Aeon Flow Open here to compare though, as they are something of a standard in that price range.
Going to get myself a pair but looking for best price, as they're a lot more in Australia. We get ripped of so much here !
I've had these awhile, they seem better with an equalizer or a bass boost
Everything does, for sure.
Sundaras are legit ! I love my sundaras get yourself a good amp. 789 and watch them delight you with sound pleasure
Have you heard the HE560? Could you compare the two?
Not at the same time, unfortunately.
TheBatman the HE650 sounds terrible in comparison to Sundura
@@axelfoley1768 HE560 needs very serious amping, only the top current amp could be able to tame its treble so it always sounds harsh for many people on lower amp
How do these compare to the Sennheiser 660s?
I have both of them i like them both. HD660s sound smoother more realistic with smaller soundstage and in your head vocals. Sundara sound metalic more bright soundstage is big and sepperation is also bigger on Sundara. The easy way to discribe it its like SUndara sound like digital clean version of a song inside a studio and HD 660s sound like u listen in real life singer in front of you and so natural analogue sound.
Just wondering what kind of music sounds better on each headphone?
Hi currawong. Have you ever listened to shure srh1540? I have one and want to know other headphones compare to it (and narrow down the best companion).
I love the way they reproduce subtle sounds like claps, thunders (surprisingly good vertical staging) and how they stage,image and layer, especially with binaural recordings of stuff like shpongle. And most importantly they sound unforced and are not fatiguing. Despite their u shaped signature at 90db measurements, they sound natural at my listening volume of 70-75db and don't have any wierd places of ringing or peaks and dips in the middle. I know they kind of break up, lose a bit of imaging and sound nasal at higher volumes but I'm a low volume listener so I love it and it helps that their fully sealed chamber has less force to deal with at those volumes (so better staging).
And best of all, they are actually comfortable at under 300g.
Someone else asked me about the 1540's a week ago funnily enough. I only listened to them many years ago and I just don't remember what they were like. They might be a good candidate for a future review though.
Currawong oh.. could be me 😛. That said. Yeah they're pretty damn good, especially with regards to space representation (things can sound close and far away at the same time) and I remember occulus using them when demoing their rift for the first time (pretty sure their space representation is the reason for it). I don't have much points of reference - the only other good HP/iem I've owned is the gr07. I also have a hd598 but I find them inferior to gr07 and waaay inferior to srh1540 (staging and imaging included).
Only thing not so great about srh1540 is that it is tuned for low volume listening. At lower volumes the chamber absorbs most of the backwaves leaving a very clean signal to the ears. Higher volumes not so great but still quite decent.
VS 660s I have both of them i like them both. HD660s sound smoother more realistic with smaller soundstage and in your head vocals. Sundara sound metalic more bright soundstage is big and sepperation is also bigger on Sundara. The easy way to discribe it its like SUndara sound like digital clean version of a song inside a studio and HD 660s sound like u listen in real life singer in front of you and so natural analogue sound all instruments blend together doesnt have that air between them like Sundara have . Its all about taste.
Amos, quick question. Would you trade a pair of Oppo PM-2s for Sundara’s? I haven’t heard the Sundara yet and am interested in your opinion.
It's been waaaaaaaaaaay too long since I have tried any Oppo cans unfortunately. I did find the Oppos to bit a bit too dark for my tastes, so at least for sonics I like the Sundaras better. If only they were as comfortable as the Oppo.
Currawong thank you. I agree, the PM-2 is way too dark for me. I have wanted a pair and bought them my first opportunity. I didn’t like them from first listen. So, I made the trade. Hoping the Sundara is comfortable enough. The PM-2 is a very comfortable headphone. Cheers and thanks again. Love your videos. I appreciate your candor.
Can somebody tell me what those headphones right in the center behind/next to his head are? They look like a German Maestro GMP 400 but balanced?
Hi, do you know if the Sony NW-ZX300 can drive this headphones I have the Sony, and I may also get the FiiO M11 pro or the M15 wich one do you think will work better with this headphones?
Thank you
Are these as resolving as the elex?
toufic abou haidar no
No
Hi, im thinking about picking on one of these. Would a schitt stack (using schitt Vali) be a good pair? I'm don't have much knowledge when it comes too headphones.
Yes, definitely.
today they are worth 250 - probably that is even better deal while the quality is where it was 2y ago
What can one except from these coming from the he4xx
Great review. Do you find that the vocal reproduction of these headphones is recessed and not forward/prominent? I find vocals get a bit lost in the mix. Cheers
I haven't with the gear I have. With what gear and music were you thinking of? I'll have a listen if I can.
Anyone replace the stock cable? If you did what was your cable of choice?
I have a pair of Audeze LCD 2 which I dont particularly enjoy. How do these compare to the Audeze?
Use EQ, it gets a lot better with EQ.
Actually, it's quite stupid if HM changed common for previous models 2.5mm jack connectors for 3.5mm.
How do these compare to Aeon Flow open? And which of the two do you prefer? :)
If I had the $ and had to choose, I'd take the Aeon Flow Open with the black inserts.
@@Currawong drop is selling their version of the Aeon Flow for only $50 more than Sundaras. 3 years on would you still recommend the Aeon Flows?
Go for the Drop HE4XX @ $130 compared to $350(today Sandara's price), use and equalize the 4XX, it will come close to Sundara, saves you money. Saves even more money if you get a refurbished or 2nd hand one. A Headphone based on the planar technology sounds different compared to a traditional headphone, so get one to experience it so no need to get an expensive model, it's all a con.
Yeah, you're gonna have to provide some evidence if you're gonna claim that the whole headphone industry is a con.
Dou you recomended Sundara or Monolith M1060?
Buying sundara or any hifiman can be a hit or miss. Because of how hifiman does not care about quality control.
Anyone have some reasonably priced cable suggestion for single-ended use? My cord has come apart after two weeks of careful use, and Hifiman doesn't seem to return customer service emails.
Focal Elex/Clear cables.
You only talked about using them with portable dac amps but yet with the AFO and elears you use your desktop gear so to see f they can keep up with $800 stuff you got to use them on the same gear. These aren’t made to be portable they’re open back planars so most will use them at their desk with desktop amps.
The cascades on the other hand are closed back and made to be used portable or at a desk but not these
You have a good point. However the portable gear available now has pretty good performance with full-sized headphones. What I'm missing in what I have here is mid-range desktop gear, something that will change soon. Then you'll see reviews of that gear with the Sundaras.
Those Hifiman headphones are made for lower impedance / mobile gear. Read the ad.
I've been running my HE400Is on two different headphone amps, my older Fiio Kilimanjaros and a new Topping NX1 I just got recently. They are infinitely improved on both,
but, they are reaching the limits at times of driving those cans. I'm sure the Sundaras would be even more demanding. I think the best use for the Hifimans is to run them
through the most powerful, beefiest desktop amp/DAC you can get. They can go portable too, but they are really designed to be driven by some stationary, more powerful
amps and equipment. You cannot judge these headphones on portable equipment. I mean, you can, but you're never going to hear them really shine like running them
through truly powerful amp or home receiver. Without the headphone amps, I can barely get any power out of the 400Is on the phone or my lossless player. I have also
run the Hifiman 400Is through my Sony home theater (a basic 100-200 watt one nothing gigantic), with the head amp in the chain, the combination of which makes
the lowly Sony HT sound infinitely better than it should, and it has tons of power that way, without much distortion, amazingly, but I'm not cranking it, just wanted
a decent boost for movies, and it delivered that.
This is, as always a very good video. Thank you very much.
What are the best sub 1k open back headphone?
The ones with the tuning that best matches your music tastes. :)
Hd 800 or hd 660s
hifiman edition x v2 for sure
Edition x v2 is over 1k
Hifiman Ananda by far. It’s what the Edition X V2 should have always been. It’s basically a less fancy and easier to drive HEK V2 with slightly thicker mids and even smoother treble for 1/3 the cost. I own the HEK V2, and prefer the Ananda. It’s Fang’s best sounding Hifiman to date (not named Susvara) in my opinion.
Great reviews!
Hey what songs did you listen to on the headphones ?
A huge variety. Maybe I should a video just on music vs. different headphone and IEM tunings with examples, which I can refer to.
Currawong that'd be helpful.
I would really appreciate that video
The bottom line, there are still no good midrange headphones. People use more and more in-ear phones for portable use. I only wonder, how they compare with Focal Elear, which are lots used ones available on Ebay now for the same price
I remember the Elear being a big warmer-sounding. The Elex, which I compared them too, is a re-tuned Elear, more or less.
Why don't you get into making a headphone kind of like zmf you know your stuff and I really think you can make something special happen with your knowledge.
Someone I know already is pretty much doing that. I have other ideas for things I could make though.
Excellent presentation! All due respect (and I have a lot for you) these bad assed phones scale just fine!
I mean, I don't have a 3,000 dollar amp, or anything, but what I consider good equipment.
The echo on Joe Walsh's vocal on "Life's Been Good." Never heard it like that. Oh, it's got cow bell. These are epic!
And it's been a while that I felt I needed to take headphones off to see if the speakers were not muted. Wide, very very wide!
Are you saying focal LX, or Elex? I’m familiar with a model called Elex but must have missed the LX.
Massdrop x Focal Elex.
Sundara or he560
funny, had elex found it had a really bizarre and annoying soundstage almost like everything was echoing had to send mine back because of that and bass clipping which is a real issue with that headphone and a major design flaw from focal, and the aeon flow open sounded well a bit bloated in the bass and didn't sound that open then theres also the treble spike.
If I recall correctly, the Elex and other Focal cans were designed without restrictions against clipping so that the dynamics wouldn't be restricted. If you're clipping the Elex, then you'd have to be listening at very dangerous levels, or listening at loud volumes to music with excessive bass. The Aeon series can be tuned to a degree. If you found the Open to have too much bass, you'd like the closed version.
after 100 ish hours of burn in , the aeon open i had feels much tighter and the treble no longer bothers me. But it does still sound more isolated compared to other open backs which is a deal breaker for some
If the Sundaras are good at $500 then they are an amazing value at the $300 they are going for now. Would you agree?
A definite "yes" from me at $300.
Just got $275! And I still have my 1.2m and 4--pin XLR cables from my old Elears. I think I'll be done between this and the Cascade for a while.
There is nothing better for 300£ imo.
neutral is neutral, meaning if you were to plot from 10hz-20khz, it would be 0db a crossed the scale. people assume neutral is based on their ears and how they hear. like if a headphone had +6db at 8000hz and your ears have trouble hearing around 8000hz so it sound neutral to you.... thats not neutral.
in the car world, you can take 5 different speaker brands, all 100 watts rms, same sensitivity, same frequency RANGE, polks are more mellow, infinity has bright highs, kicker is muddy with good bass. yet if you use an eq, you can literally make them all sound exactly the same.....
which is why i laugh at headphone snobs. you buy an amp/dac and headphones based on your own perception of what sounds good. doesnt mean you have the best. which is where swapping opamps comes in, because you can flavor your music to suit your preference, much like using an equalizer.
ive had beyer dynamic dt990 edition, ehich are open ear. essentially no bass. great for old people who think bass is bad. i had some Sennheiser 959, again, open ear and no bass. and these are budget cans. if you try to equalize in bass, they rattle and pop because they cannot handle it. so now, my current headphones are sony mdr-xb950ap which are wired "extra bass" headphones which if you pull up a performance graph, has about +8 db from 31hz to 150hz, very very bassy. now i used that graph to neutralize those headphones so each frequency is 0db. no gain no loss. they sound better than the beyerdynamic AND the Sennheiser, and was cheaper than both by a good margin.... Eqing the beyerdynamics and Sennheisers they jjst could NOT do bass, even at 0db "neutral"....
now on the other hand, my brother purchased the sennheiser 800s reference. out of the box they are close to scientific neutral, and the bass was there. i was so surprised. because its natural bass, yet cheaper "audiophile headphones" cannot even do neutral bass, they all have sharp roll off that you cannot fix with eq unless you want the driver to crack, rattle, and pop. only downside is the ridiculous $1600 pricetag. insane price for headphones imo. he had the sennheiser hd700 before those, and even the 700s had NO NATURAL BASS. eq to 0db natural bass and the driver rattles..... and those were 800 dollars. so I LAUGH at audio snobs who say one brand is better or you NEED a dac/amp.... its bullshit and subjective. my 300 dollar soundcard is capable of 10hz to 45khz, most dac/amp combos in the same price range do not! and funny thing is people listen to audio snobs then listen to low quality mp3s..... hilarious.
not calling YOU an audio snob. just in general.
my sundaras come today. will be my first planar magnetic headphones. will see how they sound plugged in no eq, then i have the performance graph to eq them to true neutral if need be.
side note, my sonys after eq sound very similar to my brothers 1600 sennheisers. the main difference comes down to comfort, since the sennheisers are extremely comfy and lightweight, and the sound stage. the sonys sound direct, left/right, while the sennheisers make you feel like you are in a room NOT wearing headphones.....
Hello
I have these and I don't like them, the sound is very dull.
Could be the tuning doesn't match with your ears. That happens quite often with headphones.
Could you please stop talking about aesthetics? Everyone can see for themselves what it looks like.
Some people consider it a big deal, though more so if spending $1k plus on headphones. If they don't look and feel good (as well as sound good) people think that they have wasted their money.