Proof that the complaints of plagiarism are myopic is that the sources from which Dylan borrows cannot replace Dylan’s use of them. Dylan’s sources minus Dylan would be an artistic loss because, like a Jewish midrash, he puts them in a different light and gives them novel contexts and meanings. And the idea that he should credit his sources in the songwriting tradition like he was writing an academic paper is trivial quibbling.
Maybe people shouldn't have reverance for anyone. I love Bob Dylan's music, but I don't worship him. I tried Joni Mitchell, but she wasn't a good fit. It's like trying on shoes. All subjective. Why trash one artist against another? Nonsense.
@Zannathin I bought Court and Spark when it came out. Good stuff. I just morphed into heavy backbeat blues. I read her tunings were pretty unique. Beautiful vocals.
Thank you jolenedelillys, It is malicious! I loved Joni, as well, but I sense some bitterness here, in these woke times. The ones who rejected Dylan’s music then are ones in charge now
I just listened to 'No More Auction Block For Me' - I hear a clear resemblence to the melody in 'Blowin in the Wind' in the first part of every line of the verse, for example "How many roads must a man walk down" varies in 2 (or 3) notes from the melody of "No more auction block for me". Odetta was active in the early 50s, she appeared on stages with Pete Seeger, who Dylan was trying follow in the footsteps of. But I didn't find the second half of the "Blowing in the Wind" verse melody "Before you call him a man" anywhere in Odetta's recording. Maybe that too can be found in a traditional gospel or blues song. Or in a piano part in a piece of music by Bach. OTOH, the verse "how many seas must the white dove sail, before she sleeps in the sand.", is an image from the Torah where Noah release a dove while the Ark is floating after the flood. So has he drawn from all these influences and put together something new? Or is it stealing? Somewhere I read an interview with Bob Dylan in the 80s or 90s where he said something like "when i sing 'Blowin' in the Wind' now I don't even fell like it's my song, it's like I'm singing some old folk song. Like it doesn't even belong to me." [Update] Bobl Dylan's version of "No More Auction Block For Me" th-cam.com/video/5_KHDWpnDjg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bAFP7Q1qoRKv3q-Q
The folk tradition, from Jimmy Rogers and The Carters up 'till now, is a tradition of sharing. Performers have long built upon each other's work. Dylan has always been "an originator" in terms of attitude, performance style and yes, writing. Mitchell ought to realize there's room for everybody. It's not a competition. She's a brilliant artist in her own right. And so's Bob Dylan.
It's only been fairly recently that Joni has been widely acknowledged as a genius. She came up during a time when music was almost completely male dominated and felt the disrespect over the years. Joni gave that interview many years ago, so I hope all is forgiven now that her legacy has been cemented.
Bob has never claimed to be more than a song and a dance man. He means different things to everybody. Joni Mitchell's comments about Bob was done sometimes in the Middle Ages. Can we forget about it already?
I’ve often thought that Don McLean referred to Dylan as “the jester”in “American Pie” because of the irony. Dylan was socially conscious and very serious, especially in the 1960’s.
@willaimmcconnell9430. I saw an interview with Dylan and he expressed disbelief about McLean calling him the “jester “. He said he had no idea why he was referred to that way.
Love Joni, love Bob, grew up listening to both, and playing their songs in my own bands and ensembles. I’ve borrowed ideas from both of them. All artists borrow, although I will say, Joni did forge her own way through alternate tunings while Bob tended to stick to standard chords. But both are major poets in their own rights, and I think Joni deserved the Nobel Prize as much as Bob did.
A 'classic' is something built on a prior piece. It is a compliment to the first creation. I met Dylan in Aix-En-Provence, France: he is not a thief or a plagiarist. He is true blue.
This is gossip fodder. Let the people speak for themselves. Joni put her comments in perspective a few years back. She calls him a great artist. We all have influences. Joni even toured with Bob Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue. Everyone knows Woody was Dylan's Idol. He was doing that style until he developed his own. Your video is gossip baloney.
Joni is a genius in her own right, but why does she have to go after anyone else? Nobody stakes their life on musical artists. If they do, they are not very smart. I am more of a fan of Joni than Bob Dylan but I think her ego sometimes gets the best of her. She is old now. Why not just celebrate her own contribution?
I love Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon. But when I read her interviews in Rolling Stone in 1991 promoting Night Ride Home, she shaded Carly Simon and downright degraded Madonna. In an interview with RS in 2002, she shaded Carly (again) and this time Carole King. Crosby said Mitchell is about as humble as Mussolinni. I love Joni, but like you said, there's room for everyone. She should be grateful for her gifts. With greatness should come humility.
@@70softrocker I met Joni once in a recording studio in LA. She seemed nice but it was in 1974 so she wasn't quite icon status yet. I respect her artistry and think she is a genius but many of the artists who become legends are not as humble as they should be. That's why my favorites are not as widely celebrated but have great success regardless of how much the entertainment machine promotes and markets them.
Rambling irrelevant pointless all folk music is handed down and Melodys adapted to new lyrics check out woody Guthrie as an example Dylan brought intelligence relevance and meaning to folk and popular music on an international level you don’t get a Nobel prize for stealing this is what sour grapes sound like
She's angry at him because she thought he snubbed her after a concert at Mad Square Garden in 1999. I saw her walk to the side of the stage at the end of his show-and hand a note to a tech- Dylan immediately (as he always does) leave-not looking at her. She thought he snubbed her. You gotta get right in front of him=-side acts don';t get his attention . Sorry Joni..How Does It Feel...lol.
This is too thin and vague to mean anything. I love it when people take a new song and say it's like a previous song. So what? New songs can't bear any shred of resemblance to a prior song? It's still a different song, a new song. Bob's great -- deal with it.
his singing was iconic, uniquely american, and an art form unto itself…..it is one of the greatest aspects of his genius…of course it is not a traditionally good voice , but that is part of its grand touch
Ridiculous! "Is there anything new under the sun??" Forgive my not giving acknowledgment because I don't remember who said it....Also, I don't think anyone gives two fu**s... I think this is the equivalent of "splitting frog hairs..." Sorry... I don't know who said that, either...
Can you imagine all of the people that had a valid reason to fear that one day Dylan would give them his left ear that he had cut off and neatly packaged. His music is one thing but, can we appreciate how lucky we are that we didn't have to deal with Bob the person.
Dylan came from the folk idiom where all songs are considered "public domain" and can therefore be looted needed. But what sets Dylan apart is his sincerity. This is what Columbia Records John Hammond saw in him - a rare sincerity. I think Joni iis bitter because she is no longer the young beautiful "magic Princess she once was. Bob has aged better in my opinion.
I think you got pieces of the truth - but that is what history is - vision and re-vision - for every story has gaps to fill, some fall out and get filled again. Over and over again, my friend - can't you see, we are in the age of reconstruction.
this is a pretty shallow view of joni mitchell imo. “a young beautiful magic princess”. Kind of ignores the gravity of the body of her work, which was and continues to be revolutionary.
Just can’t believe how ridiculous this post is . Nothing Anyone who has followed Dylan ..Excepts he borrowed from Woody Guthrie onwards … listen to Pete Seeger on all music ?
He tapped into the stream of all consciousness - that river where everything floats by. Is it plagiarism to pull in bits of words, music and style that were once hooked by others and shaped to fit their times - or is it all catch and release if one can name that tune in one note?
Sounds like Joni might be a little jealous of Bob. Bob Dylan was a great musician who refused to bend the way everyone wanted him to. He had a vision of what he wanted to be and he went for it. I don't care what others think of him. We're with you Bob and that's all that matters.❤😊
I call jealousy, Dylan wouldnt bend to her and she couldn't control him. All music is a blend of what came before, even her personal songs someone had experienced the same before, nothings new, just happens in a different form. 🎉
Blowing in the Wind was definitely built on No More Auction Block for Me but just like quoting the Bible or borrowing some generalized riff it shows only that each generation builds on past generations works.
A lot hollow talk, insinuation, repetition… but not much evidence. Meanwhile Dylan himself says he borrowed from a lot of people (everyone does). So.. what’s new here?
No matter how he put things together it was genius. Joni has always had an edge with Dylan because he got the bigger spotlight. Her arrangements were good and even great but not genius.
Oh, our human strong need to paint everything and everybody in either black or white! Isn't there a description between prophet and plaganist? Dylan never claimed that he wasn't influenced by other artists, and he never said he is a prophet. A few times, he said that he was a poet. Most of the time, he said "I'm a sing and dance man". We can pull apart anybody if we want to find mistakes. Even Joni Mitchell (who's music and poetry I also love!)).
So if his persona was an act, that doesn't make the music itself less authentic. Nobody hated David Bowie for becoming Ziggy Stardust. Joni wrote a song about Bob, where she was peeved that Bob wasn't talking to her much while they were on tour. Bob frequently did not chat much with his opening acts. He was eccentric that way. Get over it.
Joni is not in Bob Dylan's league ok she wrote a FEW good tunes Bob has literally penned HUNDREDS enough said and Joni is obviously very JEALOUS!! Paul McCartney said when writing songs you start with a popular tune and make it a completely new tune by experimenting with subtle changes!!
I have great respect for both these fine artists. I think Joni is overlooking a creative phenomenon that original artists share; namely, the 'inspirational ether'. There are melodies and poetry swirling around in that mysterious psych-soup. We are no the only ones plugged into it. Sometimes, unintentionally, the same or similar ideas/melodies/lyrics are picked up by more than one set of antenna. Being as prolific as Dylan was/is, its not unreasonable to assume that now and then, he was pulling stuff out of that soup, that was also occurring to someone else.
It's all subjective. How do YOU define: the song?...the popular song?...music?...commercial appeal? authenticity?...art?...appropriation? -- and so on...
Judgments about artists - assessments and ratings - have nothing to do with the personal _impact_ of art. If someone's music touches you or takes you somewhere special, what do you care about how someone rates them or criticizes them? I'm glad both Joni and Dylan exist, I've resonated deeply with their respective creations - different as they are. Let Joni's left brain appraise & pronounce, it doesn't effect my appreciation of both their right brain outputs.
dylan is a showman in show business, a creative fabricator of dreams visions a magpie. jonie is a diaryist a much more narrow frame of reference she is neither epic nor symbolist, she spins in, bob spins out. history will out.
This lady is still doing what she’s tried to do since the beginning of her career. Attempting to be relevant. I read articles of Dylan so called plagiarism. Let’s get this straight. Has everyone broke the time down. So, while he was becoming the golden boy of folk , then transferring into electric. And, working along side multiple collaborators. So, is this conspiracy plagiarism? I believe Dylan feeling remorse for his version of House of the Rising Sun. The studio wanted another song. He knew all the words, he recorded it. I think she’s a woman scorned. I heard her once say, he couldn’t play guitar and he smelled like cigarettes. I never heard him sing, she couldn’t sing and smelled like fish. I think she’s stuck inside of mobile with the Memphis blues again.
Dylan';s "Beyond The Horizen" is the exact melody as "Red Sails in the Sunset" note for note..but I still like it because Bob knows what works and what doesn't after all the years.
A couple examples: Bob Dylan's Dream - Lord Franklin; Don't Think Twice - "Who's Gonna Buy You Ribbons When I'm Gone?" I have been aware of these for many years. I knew he did this some but I wasn't aware how pervasive his "borrowing" was. He never felt any obligation to give credit, or a tip of the hat to the originators.
Joni was fantastic! Of course her career was less dimensional than Bob's. Did Bob snub her along the way? Perhaps but who knows the source for her bitterness? Joni was all over the RTR tour. Why? She was borrowing Bob's energy and fame maybe? Joni Mitchell hasn't done herself any favors regarding these lousy accusations. accusations
Joni- you stole colors red, orange green etc - didnt you??? People say beware…He has done more for civil rights than you can ever dream of. Ask Mingus. Bitterness wears a weary face.
I'm sorry. This material was covered in the wonderful movie, Begin Again. Dylan is only mentioned once, but Mark Ruffelo's drunk A&R Man said the very same thing about him. Dylan? Original? He's an extremely talented Musician, Poet, Songwriter and World Class Entertainer. He doesn't have to be Original....it's beside the point. Dylan has paid his dues. And he's a lot more honest than you're going to get from a lot of Artists today.
I only know a couple of Joni's songs. Artists who write nothing but introspective songs might be narcissistic, all depends on what they write & how many people relate to it. Bob can be inauthentic with songs like "It's a Hard Rain" with lines like "I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans, I've been 10,000 miles in the mouth of a graveyard" I doubt Bob ever did that. Could be youthful bravado & hyperbole. As far as image, doesn't Bob avoid press & let his songs say what he wants. I always thought the image came more from rock journalists. Many rock journalists tended to be amateur creative writers & poets wanting to make a name for themselves.
Joni Mitchell has heaped both profound praise and artistic criticism on Dylan. I won't comment on it, but I will comment on some of Dylan's past actions. He savaged Bobbie Gentry's classic song, Ode to Billie Joe, with a vicious parody called Answer to Ode :Clothesline Saga. Gentry rose above it stating in print Dylan was entitled to his opinion. Ode to Billie Joe has over 250 covers and 50 million in sales. In the 1970's Dylan ,in a Rolling Stone Magazine interview, had the audacity to state there was not a single major female poet in the English language. When pressed further his nasty retort: Who Emily Dickenson? I was devastated by such a misogynistic comment. Dylan is a musical genius and one of the most important artists in our history but don't put him on a pedestal. He is human and flawed like the rest of us.
There are few talented people who can speak with authority regarding art and expression. Joni and Dylan are both of the highest echelon artists. Joni is correct in what she has said of Dylan, at critical times he has denied the contributions of others to his success. Yet all achievements are based on the contributions of everything that ever came before. There’s a little plagiarism in all expressions. Even Joni has used the gifts given freely by others. Sometimes unconsciously but usually with purpose. Because it’s fitting and speaks of truth in some interesting way. Benefiting from repetition and what we can add as individuals. Speaking truth to life. ❤❤❤
Rappers sample on every song, this has been happening for years, singers have been borrowing melodies for 100s of years Dylan is the most important artist on the planet, just look how he shaped popular culture music for 7 decades
Where's anything in this video about Joni Mitchell finally breaking her silence? It is instead just one more stab at sabotaging the legend of the greatest creator of our lifetime.
I actually didn't hear anything in this that was clearly damning and likely more the result of people that didn't like Dylan and spent a lot of time trying to make a case. Everybody borrows thoughts of others. As far as Mitchell, she was clearly talented but for one or two songs, left me very much unspellbounded. I certainly wonder if his spectacular rise was enabled by Jewish nepotism in New York and his spectacular upgrade in his skills also makes one wonder if there was some sort of Deep State effort to create a super star at this particular hour time, very much in harmony with the civil rights movement of which his "going electric" was him getting fed up with the expectation. No hard evidence though and till we get some, I say, let it ride!
HIs legacy "stands on shakey ground"? Not even close to the shakey ground of this video which draws but a handful of vague examples from an incredible, unduplicated body of work both lyrically and musically. Nowadays people throw around the notion of appropriation without considering the fact that everything that is created is appropriated from something or someone else. What matters is who is able to create magic with music/art/literature that resonates with millions, moving them to tears, laughter, joy, inspiration, etc. In that context Dylan has few peers.
@@LindaHuff-n9x Absolutely true - she has no reason to be jealous. But (apparently) she is. I prefer Ladies of the Canyon, but I know it's not as highly rated. Also Hissing is great.
Joni....A Legend in 'yer own time....And you turn on the radio and sing with the singer in the band....(Yeah, I know these are Carly Simon lyrics, but they fit)
Ok...I'm waiting....oh, ok, your saying Bob Dylan borrowed from previous music...ALL music borrows from previous music, including Johan Sebastian Bach & indigenous folk songs...not a "giant" Dylan fan...but his music was his own that much is clear....stupid commentary.
Proof that the complaints of plagiarism are myopic is that the sources from which Dylan borrows cannot replace Dylan’s use of them. Dylan’s sources minus Dylan would be an artistic loss because, like a Jewish midrash, he puts them in a different light and gives them novel contexts and meanings. And the idea that he should credit his sources in the songwriting tradition like he was writing an academic paper is trivial quibbling.
All artists for the most part , stand on the shoulders of their Predecessors
Said the joker to the thief
There must be some kind of way out of here.
The wheel´s still in spin....CIA
I can't get no relief
and the wind began to howl…
The joker stole his jokes from the thief
Don't waste your time on this piece of crap.
Amen.
Idiocy. A case against what? For what?
Maybe people shouldn't have reverance for anyone. I love Bob Dylan's music, but I don't worship him. I tried Joni Mitchell, but she wasn't a good fit. It's like trying on shoes. All subjective. Why trash one artist against another? Nonsense.
yep!
Joni Mitchell is amazing
@Zannathin I bought Court and Spark when it came out. Good stuff. I just morphed into heavy backbeat blues. I read her tunings were pretty unique. Beautiful vocals.
What a bunch of bull!
This is nonsense! As much as I love Joni, Dylan was a genius wordsmith. Come on! Even if it was a puzzle, he put it together magnificently.
Thank you jolenedelillys, It is malicious! I loved Joni, as well, but I sense some bitterness here, in these woke times. The ones who rejected Dylan’s music then are ones in charge now
@@nightbloomer4739 I think this video is simply over execrating all that Joni once said.
I just listened to 'No More Auction Block For Me' - I hear a clear resemblence to the melody in 'Blowin in the Wind' in the first part of every line of the verse, for example "How many roads must a man walk down" varies in 2 (or 3) notes from the melody of "No more auction block for me". Odetta was active in the early 50s, she appeared on stages with Pete Seeger, who Dylan was trying follow in the footsteps of.
But I didn't find the second half of the "Blowing in the Wind" verse melody "Before you call him a man" anywhere in Odetta's recording. Maybe that too can be found in a traditional gospel or blues song. Or in a piano part in a piece of music by Bach. OTOH, the verse "how many seas must the white dove sail, before she sleeps in the sand.", is an image from the Torah where Noah release a dove while the Ark is floating after the flood. So has he drawn from all these influences and put together something new? Or is it stealing? Somewhere I read an interview with Bob Dylan in the 80s or 90s where he said something like "when i sing 'Blowin' in the Wind' now I don't even fell like it's my song, it's like I'm singing some old folk song. Like it doesn't even belong to me."
[Update]
Bobl Dylan's version of "No More Auction Block For Me"
th-cam.com/video/5_KHDWpnDjg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bAFP7Q1qoRKv3q-Q
Someone can be both brilliant and a thief. Dylan has done some unsavoury stuff.
Less of the "was" please! He's still with us, and he's even written some halfway decent new lyrics in the last few years.
The folk tradition, from Jimmy Rogers and The Carters up 'till now, is a tradition of sharing. Performers have long built upon each other's work. Dylan has always been "an originator" in terms of attitude, performance style and yes, writing. Mitchell ought to realize there's room for everybody. It's not a competition. She's a brilliant artist in her own right. And so's Bob Dylan.
It's only been fairly recently that Joni has been widely acknowledged as a genius. She came up during a time when music was almost completely male dominated and felt the disrespect over the years. Joni gave that interview many years ago, so I hope all is forgiven now that her legacy has been cemented.
Bob has never claimed to be more than a song and a dance man. He means different things to everybody. Joni Mitchell's comments about Bob was done sometimes in the Middle Ages. Can we forget about it already?
Well 50 years later I am still enjoying his “deception”. Now more than ever.
I’ve often thought that Don McLean referred to Dylan as “the jester”in “American Pie” because of the irony. Dylan was socially conscious and very serious, especially in the 1960’s.
Try Dylan himself. He refers to himself as a jester in several songs. Easy to remember lyrics to Like a Rolling Stone for example
I have seen Mclean live and he slags off everyone. With Mitchel and him its pure envy. Dylan is authentic as you can get.
@@willaimoconnell9430 Jokerman.
@willaimmcconnell9430. I saw an interview with Dylan and he expressed disbelief about McLean calling him the “jester “. He said he had no idea why he was referred to that way.
Love Joni, love Bob, grew up listening to both, and playing their songs in my own bands and ensembles. I’ve borrowed ideas from both of them. All artists borrow, although I will say, Joni did forge her own way through alternate tunings while Bob tended to stick to standard chords. But both are major poets in their own rights, and I think Joni deserved the Nobel Prize as much as Bob did.
i hear her. but artist have always did done this. you can't deny his longevity. bob created the weave.
Interesting, informative and entertaining !!! Excellent plus job !
A 'classic' is something built on a prior piece. It is a compliment to the first creation. I met Dylan in Aix-En-Provence, France: he is not a thief or a plagiarist. He is true blue.
...In your opinion
This is gossip fodder. Let the people speak for themselves. Joni put her comments in perspective a few years back. She calls him a great artist. We all have influences. Joni even toured with Bob Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue. Everyone knows Woody was Dylan's Idol. He was doing that style until he developed his own. Your video is gossip baloney.
Well said.
Oh Joni. You know better than that. Was Woody authentic? How about Joan Baez? What exactly is authentic?
Dylan is brilliant but he was also an unscrupulous thief. He ripped off Dave Van Ronk and others.
I heard Dylan used ghostwriters.
@@fredlyr1
Dave Von Ronk gave him guitar lessons.
Which song did he rip off from him
0
@@rogerdodger6025
Is that what you heard 😂😂😂😂
@@LondonView-q4x That's what I read. Not saying it's true, but it's not hard to believe considering others have done it.
Joni is a genius in her own right, but why does she have to go after anyone else? Nobody stakes their life on musical artists. If they do, they are not very smart. I am more of a fan of Joni than Bob Dylan but I think her ego sometimes gets the best of her. She is old now. Why not just celebrate her own contribution?
I love Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Carly Simon. But when I read her interviews in Rolling Stone in 1991 promoting Night Ride Home, she shaded Carly Simon and downright degraded Madonna. In an interview with RS in 2002, she shaded Carly (again) and this time Carole King. Crosby said Mitchell is about as humble as Mussolinni. I love Joni, but like you said, there's room for everyone. She should be grateful for her gifts. With greatness should come humility.
@@70softrocker I met Joni once in a recording studio in LA. She seemed nice but it was in 1974 so she wasn't quite icon status yet. I respect her artistry and think she is a genius but many of the artists who become legends are not as humble as they should be. That's why my favorites are not as widely celebrated but have great success regardless of how much the entertainment machine promotes and markets them.
Have you noticed that Dylan never says anything to anyone? We never hear him defend or promote himself.
Rambling irrelevant pointless all folk music is handed down and Melodys adapted to new lyrics check out woody Guthrie as an example Dylan brought intelligence relevance and meaning to folk and popular music on an international level you don’t get a Nobel prize for stealing this is what sour grapes sound like
Its probably more true than not that Dylan to inspire himself looked outside himself and not inside himself.
She's angry at him because she thought he snubbed her after a concert at Mad Square Garden in 1999. I saw her walk to the side of the stage at the end of his show-and hand a note to a tech- Dylan immediately (as he always does) leave-not looking at her. She thought he snubbed her. You gotta get right in front of him=-side acts don';t get his attention . Sorry Joni..How Does It Feel...lol.
Joni is jealous. In her latter work there is barely a melody to be found.
IF TRUE SO WHAT WE ALL BARROW PHRASES WORDS AND CHRORD PROGRESIONS IT JUST HAPPENS IN SHORT HE WAS GOOD
Borrowed
Is
This is too thin and vague to mean anything. I love it when people take a new song and say it's like a previous song. So what? New songs can't bear any shred of resemblance to a prior song? It's still a different song, a new song. Bob's great -- deal with it.
Love Bob Dylan ❤️😘😘😘😘😘
I can't believe anyone would think Dylan could actually sing....😮
his singing was iconic, uniquely american, and an art form unto itself…..it is one of the greatest aspects of his genius…of course it is not a traditionally good voice , but that is part of its grand touch
Ridiculous! "Is there anything new under the sun??" Forgive my not giving acknowledgment because I don't remember who said it....Also, I don't think anyone gives two fu**s... I think this is the equivalent of "splitting frog hairs..." Sorry... I don't know who said that, either...
Dylan always knew he was full of shit, it was everybody else that didn't . . .
Same with Led Zeppelin, so many of their early songs are dead rip-offs of other songs. They did present them in an original way though.
Can you imagine all of the people that had a valid reason to fear that one day Dylan would give them his left ear that he had cut off and neatly packaged. His music is one thing but, can we appreciate how lucky we are that we didn't have to deal with Bob the person.
Joni who. Bob Dylan is a legendary unmatched songwriter and musician
His words speak for themselves. This video is ridiculous. He creates an image. So what? "Aw, sour grapes because you lost your heart", Joni
Dylan came from the folk idiom where all songs are considered "public domain" and can therefore be looted needed. But what sets Dylan apart is his sincerity. This is what Columbia Records John Hammond saw in him - a rare sincerity. I think Joni iis bitter because she is no longer the young beautiful "magic Princess she once was. Bob has aged better in my opinion.
I think you got pieces of the truth - but that is what history is - vision and re-vision - for every story has gaps to fill, some fall out and get filled again. Over and over again, my friend - can't you see, we are in the age of reconstruction.
this is a pretty shallow view of joni mitchell imo. “a young beautiful magic princess”. Kind of ignores the gravity of the body of her work, which was and continues to be revolutionary.
@@tjcoop1233 lo que está explicando es la causa de su amargura. Su obra no tiene que ver.
Just can’t believe how ridiculous this post is . Nothing
Anyone who has followed Dylan ..Excepts he borrowed from
Woody Guthrie onwards … listen to Pete Seeger on all music ?
He tapped into the stream of all consciousness - that river where everything floats by. Is it plagiarism to pull in bits of words, music and style that were once hooked by others and shaped to fit their times - or is it all catch and release if one can name that tune in one note?
Sounds like Joni might be a little jealous of Bob. Bob Dylan was a great musician who refused to bend the way everyone wanted him to. He had a vision of what he wanted to be and he went for it. I don't care what others think of him. We're with you Bob and that's all that matters.❤😊
Ha ha ha! I saw Joni backing up Dylan on tour in 1998 or 1999.
I call jealousy, Dylan wouldnt bend to her and she couldn't control him. All music is a blend of what came before, even her personal songs someone had experienced the same before, nothings new, just happens in a different form. 🎉
I can listen to Joni Mitchell sing for hours but Bobs voice grates me so a couple of songs of his and I am done ,
And I am totally opposite. :)
Garbage
He was speaking about what influenced him 💜
There's no mystique about Dylan, he's a very prosaic person, but that doesn't mean he's not a great artist
Well said.
Blowing in the Wind was definitely built on No More Auction Block for Me but just like quoting the Bible or borrowing some generalized riff it shows only that each generation builds on past generations works.
I wish the world would grow up already.
Pot calling the kettle black.
A lot hollow talk, insinuation, repetition… but not much evidence. Meanwhile Dylan himself says he borrowed from a lot of people (everyone does). So.. what’s new here?
No matter how he put things together it was genius. Joni has always had an edge with Dylan because he got the bigger spotlight. Her arrangements were good and even great but not genius.
How do you work your ranking scale? I find these arbitrary-seeming judgements intriguing. Is there some kind of instruction book I could get?
Oh, our human strong need to paint everything and everybody in either black or white! Isn't there a description between prophet and plaganist? Dylan never claimed that he wasn't influenced by other artists, and he never said he is a prophet. A few times, he said that he was a poet. Most of the time, he said "I'm a sing and dance man". We can pull apart anybody if we want to find mistakes. Even Joni Mitchell (who's music and poetry I also love!)).
Just a jealous chick. Plagiarist? So where are the lawsuits?
That's a rather feminine face at the start - I think it's Kate Blanchette in her role as Mr Zimmerman !? 😹
So if his persona was an act, that doesn't make the music itself less authentic. Nobody hated David Bowie for becoming Ziggy Stardust.
Joni wrote a song about Bob, where she was peeved that Bob wasn't talking to her much while they were on tour. Bob frequently did not chat much with his opening acts. He was eccentric that way. Get over it.
Joni is not in Bob Dylan's league ok she wrote a FEW good tunes Bob has literally penned HUNDREDS enough said and Joni is obviously very JEALOUS!! Paul McCartney said when writing songs you start with a popular tune and make it a completely new tune by experimenting with subtle changes!!
How absurd.
This is like arguing who is a better football player. Fine for sports and useless for the best songwriters.
I have great respect for both these fine artists. I think Joni is overlooking a creative phenomenon that original artists share; namely, the 'inspirational ether'. There are melodies and poetry swirling around in that mysterious psych-soup. We are no the only ones plugged into it. Sometimes, unintentionally, the same or similar ideas/melodies/lyrics are picked up by more than one set of antenna. Being as prolific as Dylan was/is, its not unreasonable to assume that now and then, he was pulling stuff out of that soup, that was also occurring to someone else.
It's all subjective. How do YOU define: the song?...the popular song?...music?...commercial appeal? authenticity?...art?...appropriation? -- and so on...
Judgments about artists - assessments and ratings - have nothing to do with the personal _impact_ of art. If someone's music touches you or takes you somewhere special, what do you care about how someone rates them or criticizes them? I'm glad both Joni and Dylan exist, I've resonated deeply with their respective creations - different as they are. Let Joni's left brain appraise & pronounce, it doesn't effect my appreciation of both their right brain outputs.
I think she is petty. Sure Dylan borrows from everything. All his peers respect him, and they know his weaknesses as well as his strengths.
And Nash borrowed Joni from Crosby
dylan is a showman in show business, a creative fabricator of dreams visions a magpie. jonie is a diaryist a much more narrow frame of reference she is neither epic nor symbolist, she spins in, bob spins out. history will out.
She is a sad person! I'm not a fan of her opinions!
This lady is still doing what she’s tried to do since the beginning of her career. Attempting to be relevant. I read articles of Dylan so called plagiarism. Let’s get this straight. Has everyone broke the time down. So, while he was becoming the golden boy of folk , then transferring into electric. And, working along side multiple collaborators. So, is this conspiracy plagiarism? I believe Dylan feeling remorse for his version of House of the Rising Sun. The studio wanted another song. He knew all the words, he recorded it. I think she’s a woman scorned. I heard her once say, he couldn’t play guitar and he smelled like cigarettes. I never heard him sing, she couldn’t sing and smelled like fish. I think she’s stuck inside of mobile with the Memphis blues again.
I always suspected Dylan of being a conman. A clever one but still a conman.
Would rather hear the late John Prine anyday.
Dylan';s "Beyond The Horizen" is the exact melody as "Red Sails in the Sunset" note for note..but I still like it because Bob knows what works and what doesn't after all the years.
Just another dylan hater love bob❤
She's so full of crap! She doesn't like Coltrane. A legendary jazz man
Unless one hs a specific melodic example i have no idea what Mitchel is talking blues's Dylans 115th blues dream talking positively...4 th.
A couple examples: Bob Dylan's Dream - Lord Franklin; Don't Think Twice - "Who's Gonna Buy You Ribbons When I'm Gone?" I have been aware of these for many years. I knew he did this some but I wasn't aware how pervasive his "borrowing" was. He never felt any obligation to give credit, or a tip of the hat to the originators.
All music is borrowed from the past including Joni … I loved
Her music .. but seems she is just bitter … Sad
Joni wishes she could write a song as good as Dylan.
Inspiration comes from many sources. Plagerism is CLEAR. He didn't plagerize anything. Make of it what you wish. That's what people do today.
So Joni 'finally ' breaks silence' ,when was this then ? Yesterday, last week, 10-20 years ago.
Joni was fantastic! Of course her career was less dimensional than Bob's.
Did Bob snub her along the way? Perhaps but who knows the source for her bitterness?
Joni was all over the RTR tour. Why?
She was borrowing Bob's energy and fame maybe?
Joni Mitchell hasn't done herself any favors regarding these lousy accusations. accusations
Joni- you stole colors red, orange green etc - didnt you??? People say beware…He has done more for civil rights than you can ever dream of. Ask Mingus. Bitterness wears a weary face.
Makes you wonder what their history is.
What that ole Zim sold his soul? We know Joni
I think that Dylan is a genius and I absolutely love Joni….. she has some points about Dylan but I still that Dylan wrote brilliant lyrics.
I'm sorry. This material was covered in the wonderful movie, Begin Again. Dylan is only mentioned once, but Mark Ruffelo's drunk A&R Man said the very same thing about him. Dylan? Original? He's an extremely talented Musician, Poet, Songwriter and World Class Entertainer. He doesn't have to be Original....it's beside the point. Dylan has paid his dues. And he's a lot more honest than you're going to get from a lot of Artists today.
I only know a couple of Joni's songs. Artists who write nothing but introspective songs might be narcissistic, all depends on what they write & how many people relate to it.
Bob can be inauthentic with songs like "It's a Hard Rain" with lines like "I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans, I've been 10,000 miles in the mouth of a graveyard"
I doubt Bob ever did that. Could be youthful bravado & hyperbole.
As far as image, doesn't Bob avoid press & let his songs say what he wants. I always thought the image came more from rock journalists. Many rock journalists tended to be amateur creative writers & poets wanting to make a name for themselves.
Joni Mitchell has heaped both profound praise and artistic criticism on Dylan. I won't comment on it, but I will comment on some of Dylan's past actions. He savaged Bobbie Gentry's classic song, Ode to Billie Joe, with a vicious parody called Answer to Ode :Clothesline Saga. Gentry rose above it stating in print Dylan was entitled to his opinion. Ode to Billie Joe has over 250 covers and 50 million in sales. In the 1970's Dylan ,in a Rolling Stone Magazine interview, had the audacity to state there was not a single major female poet in the English language. When pressed further his nasty retort: Who Emily Dickenson? I was devastated by such a misogynistic comment. Dylan is a musical genius and one of the most important artists in our history but don't put him on a pedestal. He is human and flawed like the rest of us.
Everybody knows how new music evolves out of precedence. Mitchell is the tarnished individual in this article.
If you steal from someone, your a thief; but if you steal from many you are a genius. He was able to channel and synthesize many influences
Jealousy
Horrible hit job that detracts more from the author than the subject.
I'd pick bob everyday!
There are few talented people who can speak with authority regarding art and expression. Joni and Dylan are both of the highest echelon artists. Joni is correct in what she has said of Dylan, at critical times he has denied the contributions of others to his success. Yet all achievements are based on the contributions of everything that ever came before. There’s a little plagiarism in all expressions. Even Joni has used the gifts given freely by others. Sometimes unconsciously but usually with purpose. Because it’s fitting and speaks of truth in some interesting way. Benefiting from repetition and what we can add as individuals. Speaking truth to life. ❤❤❤
It's like saying Mississippi John Hurt stole material from leadbelly
Perhaps someone shld ask Joan Baez? And take a look into his 8 warehouse archive...
Rappers sample on every song, this has been happening for years, singers have been borrowing melodies for 100s of years
Dylan is the most important artist on the planet, just look how he shaped popular culture music for 7 decades
Dylan was an innovator🎸😛
All true Art is a Lie That Tells the Truth,
Where's anything in this video about Joni Mitchell finally breaking her silence? It is instead just one more stab at sabotaging the legend of the greatest creator of our lifetime.
I actually didn't hear anything in this that was clearly damning and likely more the result of people that didn't like Dylan and spent a lot of time trying to make a case. Everybody borrows thoughts of others. As far as Mitchell, she was clearly talented but for one or two songs, left me very much unspellbounded. I certainly wonder if his spectacular rise was enabled by Jewish nepotism in New York and his spectacular upgrade in his skills also makes one wonder if there was some sort of Deep State effort to create a super star at this particular hour time, very much in harmony with the civil rights movement of which his "going electric" was him getting fed up with the expectation. No hard evidence though and till we get some, I say, let it ride!
Folk music (and every work of art) draws from influences. There - no need to watch this video now.
HIs legacy "stands on shakey ground"? Not even close to the shakey ground of this video which draws but a handful of vague examples from an incredible, unduplicated body of work both lyrically and musically. Nowadays people throw around the notion of appropriation without considering the fact that everything that is created is appropriated from something or someone else. What matters is who is able to create magic with music/art/literature that resonates with millions, moving them to tears, laughter, joy, inspiration, etc. In that context Dylan has few peers.
I think she was jealous of Leonard Cohen too!
Joni Mitchell had NOTHING to be jealous about. One of the greatest songwriters of all time and without the arrogance that Dylan always showed.
She jealous of Cohen and dylan..very bitter
@@AndrewHindley Anyone who wrote the album "Blue" has no reason to be jealous of anyone. An album every one should hear at least once.
@@LindaHuff-n9x Absolutely true - she has no reason to be jealous. But (apparently) she is. I prefer Ladies of the Canyon, but I know it's not as highly rated. Also Hissing is great.
Joni....A Legend in 'yer own time....And you turn on the radio and sing with the singer in the band....(Yeah, I know these are Carly Simon lyrics, but they fit)
he basically went from socialist to christian and the world hates it as it is said in the bible
Who did he steal " It's all right ma" from 😂😂😂
If any of this is at all true, he should be credited with inspiring young and old to be more curious about literature.🤔
LOL. a musical heist ....like everyone really
Ok...I'm waiting....oh, ok, your saying Bob Dylan borrowed from previous music...ALL music borrows from previous music, including Johan Sebastian Bach & indigenous folk songs...not a "giant" Dylan fan...but his music was his own that much is clear....stupid commentary.