i use to have that saw but sold it when i moved to Europe .when i did have though , i loved it . none of the things you mentioned were an issue for me , so i think a lot of times with tools and anything in life , people have issues that are personal desires or tics that are not necessarily a fault of the tool .
I'm pretty sure a sawstop wouldn't have prevented his problem. In fact, people still get injured on sawstop saws all the time. The gimmick just makes people less cautions and also costs them money every time you forget to remove a staple that held a price tag on from the wood you are cutting.
I think the point was that the incident had caused him to really think about safety in general, not just for kick backs. In that sense, I can see why he would want to re-think not getting a SawStop. I don't think he was claiming that a SawStop would have prevented the kickback itself
Since you nor I were not there to witness what happened it would be hard to determine exactly what caused the accident. But the OP has indicated that the accident happened with the older Unisaw and it had no splitter or riving knife. The Saw Stop has both and that feature is aimed directly at preventing kickback.
Your accident with the plywood could just as easily have happened on a SawStop. Stock feeders such as the JessEm guides would have prevented that accident. Unless the Grizzly doesn’t have a riving knife, there would be no difference there. From the opening shot it is evident that you don’t use a blade guard. A guard also would have most likely prevented your accident. A SawStop without a blade guard doesn’t prevent kickback any more than any other saw. Anyone who uses a SawStop without the guard is still taking unnecessary chances. The SawStop advantage is with skin contact, not kickback. As I said in the beginning, if you had been using stock guides, the first one positioned so it’s engaged before the blade enters the wood, you would not have had that kickback. SawStop or Grizzly, same result. This is coming from a proud PCS owner.
The kickback was on my old saw (no riving knife).This saw the guard is just plain useless. It’s very flimsy, and when you try to lower the blade with the guard in place, the anti kickback pawls dig into the table and they dig into the cast table. You have to lock the kickback pawls into the up position hooks and then lower the blade. The guard was not designed by an every day user for sure. The jessem guides I will be buying when I get my new saw. Thanks for your input. Very well versed.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 From what I can see in your post you are not using the riving knive on your saw anyway. Unless it's an older model it came with one but you do need to install it.
I assume he realizes that he was hurt by kickback, and was just saying once kicked, is more aware of the claws. But the other thing is under no circumstance have people able to wonder into your shop. I lock the door. That has some safety issues around it also. All this Sawstop fanboy stuff... I have regular low powered tools in my shop that can literally twist me into mush like toffee on a stick. If you don't already know what I mean, I will not tell you as you can't un-google those pictures. Loose a finger. Never going to happen, but it is so far from being the worst thing that can, lordy I would hit that trade if I had a chance.
The worst injury, and the only bad one I have had on a TS is a kickback. piece was a little too wide, short and high. But not so off that it was obvious, or that the piece that hit me was light. I may not have been half the boxer I thought I was until I took that shot. LOL at myself.
Perspective. I have that model saw and am very happy with it. But I had a Bosch contractor saw before that. I was right in the middle of a customers project when it gave out and had to replace with something right away. I would love to have gotten a SS or Powermatic, but at more than twice the cost I just couldn't. The Grizzly was quite a step up for me. You had one of the best saws made at the time you bought it (when Delta had ownership that cared), and took a step down. Some of the quality issues you brought up are not acceptable, but the others? Remember, the Grizzly is less than half the cost! You can't expect Festool quality when you buy Ryobi, but you might get a pretty decent tool. Do you expect the same fit and finish from a Nissan that you would from a Benz? It is what it is. I don't think anyone ever said that Grizzly is as good as SS or Powermatic. PS - not trying to be a smart a**.
No problem.. yes I miss my old Delta. I thought the Grizzly would be about the same quality as my old one, but I was mistaken. You’re correct when you say it’s half the cost for a reason, but I just thought it would be a little better. Just silly quality control. But I can still get things done on it until I save for a SS... Thanks and have a blessed Easter
Thanks. Helpful for me as I have an inherited Grizzly I need to sell so I can buy a more lightweight table saw. I rent, and I may have to transport the damn thing.
Mate I really do feel for you, when I started to do woodworking my wife got me a triton table saw. I never liked it, used it a couple of times but I quickly realised it was a piece of junk, all I can say that the manufacturer through safety out the door and put profit first. From the knowledge I got from that experience , I started looking for a saw I could use with complete confidence. Man I searched the net, found some good table saws but always the safety angle was foremost on my mind. I happened upon Saw Stop by accident, when I saw the price I just said " next," but for some reason I kept going back to the website Long story short, I worked out which one best suited my needs and which attachments I would require. I am working towards that goal because I do not want to do it by piecemeal, when I buy it, I will have all I need at once. I have learnt that if you settle for less than what you want, you will receive less than what you settled for, I hope it works out for you. Thank you for your honest review, you have given me insights of what to do and what not to do,thankyou. Frank Nolan
I am in the woodworking/contracting/home builder trades. All of my colleges including myself, that have switched to the SawStop, have not been disappointed. One colleague was an upper-end home builder., 6 figures. He and I built the kitchens together. I cut the oak plywood carcasses in my shop, he built the face frames for those carcasses in his shop. All joints were dados or groves. No butt joints. Needless to say, precision for parts to fit together had to be dead on. I was using a Jet cabinet saw, he was using an older Unisaw. Today, he is retired and has moved to his lake house and building a small shop. He feared getting rid of the Unisaw. He replaced it with the job site SawStop and he can't stop smiling.
You have to watch the whole video before you make this comment. The kickback story was just a story he told. He went over the issues with this table saw.
My wife and are discussing selling the saw and buying the Saw Stop. I have worked really hard at getting this saw tuned. The results are good, but it gets really annoying having to deal with things that I didn’t have to deal with before. Plus I’m getting older, and I value my fingers more because I’ve owned them longer..ha ha Now I’m faced with buying a new dust collector. I’m looking at Oneida Air. It’s the new saw or new dust collector, until I find that perfect tree (that grows $$). LOL
Look into ClearVue cyclones for dust collection. They are spendy but mine is my #1 piece of safety equipment in my shop and totally worth the money I spent on it. In fact, it's the only major tool purchase I've ever made new and have zero regrets.
Stfu man. This video is just u nitpicking all the small things to justify to yourself and wife that spending 5k instead of the 1.5k is worth it. It’s a form of cognitive dissonance.
I appreciate these commentaries. You really have to wonder sometimes how these things happen after so many years and so many examples of doing things correctly. This is video gold. All the expensive products should have this type of video out on them and their people in charge should be watching them.
I bought a Sawstop 3hp PCS with the sliding crosscut table and router table in the 36" extension. I can balance a nickel on the table and start and stop the saw without it moving. I never use the blade guard because I find it gets in the way more than it helps. I wouldn't trade this saw for any thing. Most of my other equipment is Grizzly and l'm well pleased with the way they perform. I went with the Sawstop because the table saw is the one tool that I use multiple times every day. No regrets with any of my purchases. The planer and jointer work great with no snipe, the 17" bandsaw cuts very well, and the drill press does its job.
I have an old grizzly contractor saw from the 80's...added balanced machined pullies and segmented belt...hums, no vibration. added a U50 fence and a side extension with a Jessum lift...It was a great little work center. Had to use thin kerf blades because of the motor size. Looking for an upgrade...it will be my last saw. If a SS trips do I need to order a new cartridge?...I'm retired in Mexico...How long does that take to order???...Would anyone compare a SawStop to a Felder or Hammer?????
@@LiloUkulele I haven't tripped my saw but I bought an extra cartridge when I got the saw. You do have to replace the cartridge when it trips but that's not a big deal considering the alternative!
Thanks for sharing your experience . I ordered a Sawstop and while waiting until it was back in stock for them to ship it to me, I started looking into the Festool TS55 tracksaw and an MFT type table. How the system saves space, how my fingers aren’t near a blade, good dust control etc. So after some brief researching, I cancelled the Sawstop order and had them throw the money down the Festool rabbit hole instead, and for what it’s worth, I couldn’t be happier with the new mobile set up vs my previous “everything is centered around a huge table saw” approach.
I’m actually looking at getting either the same system as you, or getting the kreg system.. Did you consider the Kreg in your choice? If not, what made you choose the Festool? Thanks
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I looked at the Kreg system briefly, but then started to concentrate on Festool. I really like that I could store and stack everything in Systainers. I also like that I could just create my own MFT table slab top and place that on sawhorses whenever I want to make any cuts while simultaneously using bench dogs for the MFT. This entire set up takes a few more minutes than what I was used to doing on my tablesaw but in general the entire system is just so much more convenient for me. Festool is very accurate, while Kreg seems to just be trying to do what Festool has been doing much longer.
Thanks. I’m probably going to get the Festool trac saw bc breaking down full sheets is getting really tough. I’m recovering from a torn rotator cuff, and this just seems sensible. Now should I get the 55 or 75? I’m leaning towards the 75
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 sorry to hear that. I got both of those machines the55 is a dream to break down sheet goods up to 1” the75 is on the heavier side i use for material 1”1/2 and up , i use my table saw now just for small rips or small material
I had a delta unisaw and loved it until I cut the tip of my finger off. I bought a SawStop and also love it. The manuals are great. It is easy to square the table to your blade and the dust collection is pretty good. I would highly recommend theSawStop. You won’t be sorry.
Jet and powermatic are the same company. Laguna is nice for lathes, drum sanders, bandsaws but not so much table saws. I work at a woodcraft and I spend my weeks assembling these machines for customers and the store so I’ve been lucky to have an inside scoop on quality of machines as well as the quality of the companies as far as warranty, manufacturing, shipping etc. I take cabinetmaking as a student at a tech school where I use 2 sawstop ics models (7hp) and I also work in a shop making custom furniture using a pcs sawstop (5hp). I recommend the sawstop to everyone I talk to about it, not just because of the brake system (which is great working with knowing you have a potential safety net to keep your fingers intact) but the machines themselves are refined and beautifully manufactured. The proof is in the quality of the machine, if you can afford one, get one.
Thanks for the reply. My friend used to own a Woodcraft store in Fort Myers, Fl. That’s where I saw the demo when they first came out. My jointer and bandsaw are old jet machines, and have served me well. I sold my Powermatic 4224 lathe (should have never sold it), and sold my jet 3hp shaper which was a good machine with a so so fence. Sounds like you enjoy furniture and cabinet making, which is great. Working on well designed and safe machines makes woodworking so enjoyable. Who really wants to work on the machine more than the woodworking right? Sounds like you’re on a path to success! Thanks for the reply and your expertise. Woodworking is a great profession, and craft..
I like how you touched on so many details that were either not right or irritating. When you spend $2k + on a saw, the expectation is near perfection. Good video in my opinion!
For as much money as these saws cost, there should be in depth reviews like this for each make & model of saw. Surprising that doing simple things like adding / removing blades, tensioning the belt & dust collection haven’t really been thought through in the Grizzly.
Thank you.. Engineering goes hand and hand with safety. The lack of thought that goes into these newer machines dives me crazy. Don’t even mention quality control… Can you tell I’m a retired engineer??
I don't have room for some huge cabinet saw like that even though they are nice with all the bells and whistles features. I have a 40+ yr old Craftsman 113 table saw with the stuff that came with it. Admittedly it takes me a little longer tinkering to get things lined up for some cuts, especially ripping, but in the end I get accurate cuts. I made a dust collection shute which works well and do regular maintenence on the saw to keep it true and clean. I also invested in some good blades which make a big difference in cut quality. My father was a carpenter for 55 years and I started working with him on his old table saw when I was 5yrs old. I'm nearly 75 now and am quite content with the old Craftsman I bought new decades ago. All this new technology is great, but it still comes down to the operator in the end. My saw won't take a riving knife and I never use the blade guard because it just gets in the way. I've had a few kickbacks over the years but know it was my own fault for them happening so I'm just that much the wiser and more careful to use it properly and avoid problems. I do woodworking for a hobby so maybe if I was doing it as a business things would be different. I think most people who watch these videos are hobbyist woodworkers also and most on a limited budget too. I've bought a few tools (mostly WEN which are terrific for the price) I needed like a drill press, a belt sander, a miter saw and a bandsaw and with those there is not much I can't do. For all those hobbyist woodworkers, work smart and use good common sense and you will do fine without all the high dollar fancy equipment.
It’s true. I had better older equipment. I just got to appreciate being able to count on the saw to be true without working on the saw instead of my project. My Unisaw was hands down better than this, and the kickback was my own fault.
@@11211lcb I completely agree...and that’s why I’m not buying a tablesaw at all. I’m buying a Festool tracksaw and a Router Boss to do my dados/grooves etc. It’s still less money than the Sawstop cabinet saw, and the only thing I can’t do with it is cut super-thick wood - and if I need to that maybe I’ll buy a bandsaw. If the wood is clamped down well, it can’t come flying at you, and if you have both hands on the saw, it’s hard to cut your thumb off.
Shoulda... Coulda... Woulda! Personally, Saw Stop is overpriced, and over-hyped. You have a saw that can do any job you throw at it, and can do it as well as a Saw Stop. If you are a professional, you know what to do about keeping yourself safe. That's your job. But hey, we all covet what we don't have, and try to justify why we want it. Human, nature...
My accident was actually on my Delta Unisaw that I loved. Back then, they didn’t come with a splitter insert (great device now) and the ply pinched on the backside of the blade. Definitely opened my eyes...
Man i know exactly what you are saying , i was about 15 we had an older Delta Unisaw in the Building trades Shop , probably a Early 70s model , this was 84 or 85 and i was ripping a 2 x4 that kicked back the same way , it knocked the breath out of me , a lot of the yournger guys may not realize just how hard those old saws could kick
I have the same saw and have been perfectly happy with it for years. I have the clearvue dust collector as well, I enlarged the hole is the table saw to 5” and the cabinet is always clean. I do agree on all your pet peeves though I was just dealing with it until I saw your video. Now I want a new saw. Lol
Lol .. I was just looking at clear view myself, but as usual the only one I like from them is the big blue one. For some reason, that clear lexan like look doesn’t make me warm and fuzzy. I’m also looking at Oneida. But I’m sure as soon as I’m financially better of I’m jumping on the Saw Stop
Wow, maybe I should do a video on the issues with my old Craftsman table saw that I bought brand new in 1991. It came with cast iron extensions that are still on it. I've used it for 30 years and it's still a good saw minus the modern safety features. The riving blade is built onto the blade guard so if you need to take the guard off, there's no riving knife. I've had a few near misses but fortunately nothing bad. About every 3 or 4 years I sand the cast iron table with 220 grit on an oscillating sander being careful to keep it flat and evenly paced. Then I use a good car wax to keep surface rust off and make my wood glide over it smoothly. I use a square against my miter gage and the blade for a sure 90° cut rather than rely on the miter gage increments. And I check the rip fence the same way with only a few thousands inch angle away from the blade on the exit end. I have built some nice cabinets, hope chests, gun cabinets etc with it and it's earned it's $300.00 price over these 30 years. Being alert and using keen awareness of safety is an absolute must with any table saw. When anyone speaks to me while its running, they get no reply until that cut is finished and the saw is off. My dust collector is my shop vac when I'm done. I Don't cry over sawdust on my cement floor. I vacuum it up. Now to your point, if I spent thousands of dollars on a super gold plated saw, I'd be bent out of shape over those nit picky things. Anyone thats used a table saw at some point has done some things with it that shouldn't have been done. But being extreamly aware every moment is the key. The moral of this story is, don't depend on a manufacturer of your tool. Just learn your tool and remember that it's your fingers, your body and only you can keep safe. Good video, and I can appreciate your concerns with the saw. I wish mine had the modern safety features but I can't afford a newer one. I'm getting older at almost 67 now so I have to be extra aware. Not as fast reaction time as yesteryear.
Few if any American Brand table saws had riving knives until SawStop came out with theirs in the early 2000's. European saws have had riving knives for decades. If your American brand TS has a riving knife today you can probably thank SawStop.
@@11211lcb like I said, mine has a riving blade built onto the blade guard. No idea when saw stop came out, matter of fact I never heard of them until this video but I bought my saw in 91
@@TheNewenglandboys That's not a riving knife. That's a splitter. While both items attempt to do the same thing (prevent kick back), they are not same device. Riving knives are safer, as they remain the same distance behind the blade regardless of blade height. Splitters, like the one on the 113, do not do that.
I'm a bit confused as to why you would sell a well liked table saw only to buy another. So I guess I don't understand the motive for even considering another saw, since even a Saw Stop doesn't prevent kickback. To address your points about the Grizzly G0690, you must first understand that you did not buy their top of the line saw. So you are expecting fit and finish of a $2500-4000 saw from a $1800 saw. All the little details are important, but can also be fixed and adjusted on this saw. You exchanged money for time. You didn't spend the money, now spend the time. Table not in perfect plane, tap it into place. This could have happened in shipping to any saw. Fence not perfect, adjust it. I'd have done that to an expensive saw anyway. Dust collection port not ideal, but then no dust collection is worth any more than the collector pulling on that port. Cast iron table scratches easily. I'm not sure that isn't the case with all newer cast iron. Riving knife and guard held in by quick connects, because that saw was designed in an era when those items were often removed and never thought of again, so why make them expensive? Quick disconnect kinda says it all about those. This is not to say all these things are unimportant, or aren't worth commenting on. They are details which make using the machine better, more rewarding, and less hassle. But That's what a Grizzly machine IS. Its a lower cost, owner takes on the "fine tuning" if you will, in exchange for a couple thousand dollars of cash still in pocket. All that said, the saw is a great saw for the price. But you also are not wrong about it; its just you are expecting more than was advertised or supplied. BTW, if your open end wrench jaw flexes like you describe, get a better set of wrenches.
I’m in agreement with you. Back when I purchased my Delta Unisaw with Beismeyer 52”fence it was awesome. It was only $1490 back then,easy to align, and you could dial it in to within .002 of an inch. Yes it lacked the newer safety devices, but hey they weren’t around then. This saw has more flaws than I actually exposed because I wanted it to be informative and for people to think about saving up and get something with less problems. I could actually do another video showing the cast iron extension tables not being milled truly flat. I have worked with tape, shim and various other thickness materials only to have the front half of the extension wing true and the rear half down .008 of an inch. I have three “Whole” fence assemblies shipped from Grizzly only to arrive damaged with no visable box damage? Also the laminate table I have two of that arrived broken and I became so frustrated with not being able to work on the saw that I made my own in the video. I could go on, but you get the picture. You are 100% right in expecting more, but actually I thought it would at least be as good as my old Unisaw. Thanks for the response.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 Three notes regarding your reply. First, I think you had an exceptionally bad experience; I don't think all purchases from Grizzly, or of this saw in particular, as as bad as you had. That sucks, no way around that. Second, understand where these machines are made, and some of the issues become less design and more QC/competence/shipping care by the manufacturer. Last, as you noted, the CS techs at Grizzly are good at what they do. They take pride in their work. This may not necessarily be backed, or met in quality/quantity of that pride, by the company itself. I know this from personal experience. I hope you have better luck with the other machines and that you solve your saw dilemma, since a good day in the shop is the ultimate goal.
Because a SawStop will prevent a bad cut. And yes you can say you just have to be careful and that is true but who do you know that has never made a mistake or had an accident?
@@11211lcb perhaps you should reply after reading the entire response. I would have understood stepping up to a better saw. But his major concern was kickback, which saw stop cannot prevent.
@@Mrsnichols1965 I was answering your question. Why sell a well-liked saw? And somewhere in the thread, the OP has indicated the desire to keep all of his digits.
I don't understand the title....saw stop will save digits that's it....no saw prevents the number 1 biggest issue.. Kickback! I love my Laguna. Saw stop is wayyy overpriced. Yes your digits are priceless but kickback is the most common mishap with a table saw.
I agree. Euro sliders seem to minimize the danger better than traditional cabinet saws but, they're expensive, more than SS, especially if you want a sled for longer rips.
One thing to note though, that kickback is the number one cause of pulling fingers into the blade. Any saw with a riving knife goes a long way to stopping kickbacks.
Kick back is very common and a riving knife goes a long way to prevent that. BUT kickbacks are normally not nearly as devastating as a bad cut or an amputation. I have had both happen to me, kick backs multiple times. I am missing half of my left thumb. What do I worry about the most after owning a TS for 38 years? Another bad cut, but from a band saw or jointer, or circular saw, not my SawStop. If you don't realize the value of not cutting off a digit or the possibility of doing that I wish you a lot of luck.
I ordered the saw stop contractor model a couple of days ago. It will be an upgrade from my current Bosch job-site saw which is an okay saw but it has its limitations. I’m retired and a wood working enthusiast. The older I get the more I too think about safety. I made it this far with all of my appendages and I plan to keep things that way. At this stage of the game, IMO. it’s worth a few hundred $$ more to buy safer equipment. I’d hate to think what the medical bills would be for reattaching severed limbs…then there’s the life-long regret that would go with it.
That’s exactly where I sit on this myself. People don’t like to admit their mistakes..there’s an old saying “people have ten fingers, and they all point away from themselves”. The guy with nine is saying..”I should have bought a SawStop”… smart move..enjoy and stay safe!
Saw this on another TH-cam video. If you still have this table saw. The height difference of the table extensions is caused by the washers of the connecting bolts. The washer diameter is too big and pushes it up raising it about ten thousandths. Try either removing them and using the lock washer only or grinding them down. This enabled the extensions to become flush with the main table. Hope this helps.
You made some very valid points there, especially since you have put in the time to earn the right to talk about the windfall of the grizzly saws; I got some bad news for you, I do have the saw stop, not just the 5hp, but the 3hp as well and stacked them back to back, the 3hp being the dedicated dado station, they work like a breeze, never had an issue with them, easy to tool them, change blades, etc; one still have to be careful and pay attention at all times when working on a table saw, even that the sawstop have the chip in them, I still practice the same safety approach as when I owned all powermatic line of tools; sawstop have some issues of their own, their side table is not all that great, but you work with it, you need a cyclone powerful dust collector when using cabinet saws, I bit the bullet and got a cleearview one, does wonders; sawstop got very slick and have an extension bendable tube from the blade housing to the outer connector that goes to the dust collector, that alone is ingenious as it sucks all dust coming off the blade, nothing escapes, even without the blade cover dust port, that only deal with the real floating particles that escape the inner suction system; At the time I got both, I wasn't really happy with the bill, but I knew that if I don't do it I will regret it over the years, I've been doing fine wood working for as long as I remember, including custom staircases of all designs one can imagine, so good tools is a must in those settings. Best of luck to you in the future, you can always fix your past mistakes, all it is to it, to want to, you caught the phrase where i mentioned I had the entire line of powermatic....those were not cheap, and still I swiped the those table saws for the sawstops, I owned the sliders before but didn't like tham because those have their own limits, only great for big sheets rips, that's all. Dan
Pap, Thanks so much for the reply. Sounds like your the guy I’d like to work side by side with. I definitely need a cyclone. In fact I’ve just reached out to Oneida Air for a recommended system based on my shop layout. I’d like your input on your cyclone recommendations as well if you have more time. I had the old Delta, Powermatic, equipment which was the gold standard back then. I’m really glad you put your Saw Stop info in there. Buy once cry once? I should have listened to my inner voice over my pocket book, but it’s another lesson learned.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 you sound like a good man, we all learn from our mishaps, lol; on some of my videos on my channel you can see the system I set up, too bad I speak in my native language, but I am sure you are intelligent and can figure things just by seeing it. Thanks for the reply. Dan
An 1100 CFM non cyclone DC works just fine on my ICS SawStop. Good dust collection has more to do with the route between the saw and the collector than the collector. I have a 30' flex hose with a flared female end that connects to my TS, BS, and 15" planer with no breaks or gates.
I find this humorous, not because of what you're going through but unfortunately I have a craftsman 113 and would kill to have that saw.!! Great video anyways!
the whole point of sawstop is you don't need all those guards to be safe. The saw stop fence is the equivalent of the beismeyer fence. We had two sawstops. The last saw spot i bought was used primarily used for lumber ripping. I had rockwell 5hp threephase table saw. a very good table saw. never did one repair in thirty years of use but didnt have the safety features of a sawstop. also a very smooth saw. Anyways I took the unifence of the rockwell and put on the sawstop. a very good combo to ripe lumber. ps the first sawstop probably saved my partners finger.
I really liked my old Delta Unisaw with the Beismeyer fence. I still have the Grizzly, but hurricane Idalia took the roof off my shop and it got a bath. Glad the SawStop wasn’t in there or I woulda been really upset. Cleaned up the Grizzly and it has war wounds but it still works.
Sawstop should be licensing the patent out to other saw manufacturers to make it more affordable for people. They can still get their money, and other manufacturers can compete on price of the saw going to the customer.
Yes, for safety reasons I agree, however I don’t blame SawStop for not sharing the patent. It makes them unique from other manufacturers. Their saws are very well built. The safety feature gives them an edge over the high end manufacturers like Powermatic, Delta,Laguna,and Harvey..
Sawstop is a great saw, but it wouldn't have prevented that kick back accident. It's safety system is aimed at blade contact with flesh, not in preventing kick back except for the inclusion of a riving knife.
The Sawstop might have prevented the kickback, it comes with a riving knife. And basically, the riving knife's only function is to help prevent kickback.
I didn’t make it clear enough that the accident was my fault. The older saw didn’t come with those safety devices. The Grizzly has them, but they are total junk and don’t work.
I appreciate your review. However I just bought a Grizzly Extreme Series Cabinet saw (9/1/2023) and none of the problems you talk about in your review exist in the saw I bought. The fit, finish and build quality are great. The adjusting wheels for raising / lowering the blade and tilting are very smooth and easy to use. The digital read out for the blade angle is dead on accurate. The throat plate doesn't require any tools to remove and it is very easy to level to the table top. Dust collection works very well but that has a lot to do with your dust collection system. I use a Harvey Gyro Air G700 Dust Processor. This is a very solid saw at a much better price point. The only advantage I see in the SawStop is the safety feature.
Sounds like they fixed my issues. That’s great to hear. I noticed some of these issues being fixed on later models. You’re absolutely right on the safety issue. I upgraded my dust collector to the Oneida Super Cell. It works great, and the dust collection is better, but I think my older model has older engineering. I’m really glad you got a good saw and you like it. It makes all the difference. Woodworking is a great hobby, and even greater when your equipment works well. Enjoy and stay safe, and thanks for informing others on your experience.
David, which Extreme did you buy? I've got a 0605X1 (5hp 12" 220v) in the basket right now but this whole discussion has me leaning SS. I've been using my Ryobi 3010 for 25 years and am only buying one more saw...
Had a Jet for twenty-five years, which was an excellent saw. Built a giant legacy on that saw and retired early. Now I am going to work a little more for some special clients and have decided on a Knova cabinet saw. They are very good saws, a bit expensive but very nice.
Great review, thankyou. I've wanted a Sawstop for years until I recently saw a review of the 4 horse Harvey. I highly recommend looking into one. Very high quality for $2000.00 less than a comparable Sawstop with only a 3 horse motor. It also comes standard with what many call the best miter gauge on on the market. Just my 2 cents. Goodluck with your next one!
I've got one of those on order, should be here in March. I think the dovetail trunnion is the biggest selling point for me that should provide significant stability and accuracy. Next is the 4 horse motor. And you know, if you actually use the safety guards etc your chances of injury are much lower for any saw. The automatic features of the Sawstop are nothing to sneeze at but $$$
I am so glad I got a SawStop. I just love it, and until you get one that negative tone in your voice is not going to go away. You have to be happy or you are not going to be making anything.
I think you’re right. Just replying to people reinforces the negatives, and you Saw Stop owners are grinning ear to ear...lol And you’re exactly right I’m not making things as much because of the hassles. It’s less enjoyable.
Agreed. Might as well bite the bullet. I’ve had mine for 5 years now. And have not had a single issue I don’t ever have to think about it at all. Once I dialed it in during instal it’s been dead accurate since with zero adjustments. Mine scratches easy tho just FYI. But I don’t mind scratches.
It don't take much to mess up. I had dropped my table saw fence in the floor once. It was on a shopsmith 510 taken off and set on the end table but not locked on it. Well I nocked it off when using the cross cut sled. Any way I wet back to ripping and placed the fence on the table, but only now the fence as miss aligned and it was tapered in to the blade as I pushed my board through. I was cutting a board about 8 to 10 inches long 5 inches wide. I was not using a push stick. ( I know bad Idea) I had done this 1000 times before with no issue. As my little short board passed though the back of the blade it was rejected. My ring finger and pinky was wrapped around the fence as I was taught. This saved my hand from getting into a blade but my thumb was pushing it through and the kick back Jammed the board into my thumb bending it backwards as the corner of the board took a chunk of skin 1/4 in deep down the side of my thumb. It was my bowling thumb too and even after healed it was a lot bigger around than ever before and still is way bigger than my left hand. I had to re-drill my bowling balls to fit my thumb. LOl. It still bothers me and is full of arthritis. I can't Afford a sawstop and even if I could I do not have the space. I am in a 1 car garage. I actually love my Shopsmith.
Sorry to hear about your mishap. Just goes to show.. it can happen to anybody, even the most experienced. I had a shopsmith when I got started. Wasn’t a bad machine, but changing stations got old, and I moved out of it after several years. Did a lot of work on that thing, and the thing I miss about it was being able to horizontally drill on it. Stay safe, and enjoy the hobby
Honestly I dont think the saws quality is the problem, rather its your unreasonable expectations for what was at the time the cheapest 3hp cabinet saw on the market. It always amazes me how people expect far more out of a product than the money they can afford to spend will get them. I actually had 2 of these saws in my shop. One was setup solely for cutting dados as being a custom cabinet maker, I cut a lot of dados. I replaced them both for a couple of Harvey cabinet saws not to long ago. So I will say the fences that come with these saws are garbage. They just arent flat and there really isnt a viable way to flatten them as the warping is in the steel. So I just replaced them both with the Very Super Cool Tools extruded Aluminum fence. The extension table is also no good, but they can be easily made with some 3/4 MDF. If I remember correctly, at the time when I bought the two saws they were $1150 each. Cheapest 3hp cabinet saw on the market, so shortcomings were to be expected. Replacing the fence and the extension table still made the saws very much worth it, as the typical fine tuning of the saws is the only other thing I had to do them. SawStop Saws are not with out their shortcomings, but the fact that they cost 3 times more than these, those shortcomings would really piss me off. These were great saws for the money and they performed just as well as the Powermatic saw I had before these. You are just the type that will spend 100 bucks on a product and fully expect it to be the same quality as the 1000 dollar product. Its just unreasonable buddy. You need to check your expectations.
Thank you for your thorough review of your Grizzly saw. I’m a member of a woodworking club where the members purchased a Sawstop for the club shop. This saw is a joy to use. I’m going to save up the money and buy one in a few years. Best of luck with your journey toward owning your Sawstop.
Thank you.. I also used to belong to several different clubs..woodturners, carving, furniture makers. Great places to meet nice people and learn from others.
For Christmas I am getting a new table saw. The two current contenders are the SawStop Contractor's model or the Laguna Fusion 2. Both appear to be excellent table saws.
Regarding the saw dust I have a different brand but had the same issue. But I cut the pink hard insulation board to raise the bottom 2 inches which was just about an 1/8th higher than the bottom of the hose attachment. I hate to say I still get dust in the corners but way less than before. It is a very simple fix.
The accident you described is the number one reason I do not like the family making random visits while I am cutting on the table saw. When I first began woodworking my back was to the door of the house and the family would come out and tap me while I was making cuts with all my safety gear and equipment running. It scares the hell out of you when you aren't expecting someone to be over your shoulder.
Let me know how you like it. I liked the aluminum fence, and the looks of the saw, but I haven’t been able to physically see one yet, as I’m in a rural area.
Wow, I have the same saw and you pointed out every thing that bothers me too! I should have spend the money on the sawstop as well. My biggest complaint is the fence, drives me nuts that it moves when it is tightened down and that the plastic in the fence has dips and valleys in it. May have to change it out like you did. I've managed to "fix" the poor dust collection design by taping/ plugging all the holes and voids around the cabinet for a better seal. Overall though I think for under $1000 its a pretty solid saw. thanks for the video.
Yeah the fence took a lot of time to get right. That white plastic is just horrible. Like you said it’s not flat and you will never get them flat. That’s why I made the corian ones. The guard and insert drive me nuts. The saw is not really useless, it just needs sooo much work to get satisfactory. And satisfactory is a big sacrifice. I’m going to sell mine and get a SawStop as soon as I save more $$
I bought a General International contractors saw back in 03. I removed the base and built it into a large 7x8 rolling table. I dont have access to the adjusting parts. I have never adjusted it. A couple months ago i decided to see if the blade was actually 90Deg to the table. Uses my digital angle guage and it was only out by .03 degrees. 17 years and still i have never tensioned, adjusted or done anything other than install a new switch. I bought it with the short fence to save myself about $400, went to a steel store and bought the same steel for about $40 and had it powder coated. I can cut 61" wide. I have found that with General International when you unbox it you will swear your head off because their instructions are crap. But as soon as you hit that go button its awesome.
Yes general was sort of a Grizzly back in the day, but they actually were pretty solid. I have three different complete fence kits compliments of Grizzly .. lol but they have some dings and dents. Bad quality control issues. My saw runs fine, it’s just a pure pain to have to keep tweaking and making adjustments every time you start a project. Sort of takes the wind outta your sails if you know what I mean. My Grizzly planer is holding up ok. Still needs some tweaking, but it’s close..
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I bought the big thickness planer from General. I could never stop the snipe. They even sent a guy that professionally calibrates industrial machines and he couldn’t get it to stop either so I returned it. It didn’t do any better than my dewalt table top.
When I was setting up my shop two years ago I picked up a delta contractor saw from lowes. I knew that it was a means to an end . I just picked up a Sawstop kinda the last piece to my puzzle. The entire two years I just kept looking at reviews and it always came back to Sawstop. I’m keeping the contractor saw because it’s on point. It’s is actually very accurate. But I have not one regret buying the Sawstop. Have a good one.
I hear nothing but good things from SawStop owners. Rarely do I hear anything bad. I haven’t done a video lately, but my shop got hit with hurricane Idalia. Ripped the ridge off my shop and dumped water in the top. By the time the eye passed by, it was too late. Water covered every piece of equipment and table tops were rusting. My wife and I used towels and rags to wipe off the water, and I grabbed a bucket of wheel bearing grease and slapped it on every table top I have. Now just waiting on the insurance adjuster. Lesson learned here is: don’t set up your shop with your equipment down the middle. Keep all major equipment off of center…
I believe everyone is going to find positives and negatives. There is no such thing as the perfect table saw or power tool. Reviews can be biased. The gentleman in this video gave an honest and complete review showing how things work or put together. I believe "sawstop" offers a kind of peace to the user. The user could develop bad habits and trust issues. While Sawstop has been promoting it's saw's capabilities especially when someone touches the saw the blade is immediately stopped. I haven't looked at other positive or negative videos as of yet. Sawstop is pretty expensive but I do not feel ripped off that i bought this exact saw. It meets my requirements. If there is a big negative about the saw, I will tackle it then. I appreciate the author's remarks on this video.
Thank you for being honest. While it seems very negative, it was an honest engineering review. Their equipment serves a market point well, and newer models may be better. I still use the saw and make furniture. It just needs a lot of TLC.. but it works.
@@johnpietros9439 Overpriced, maybe. But "crap?" It's the top of the line table saw. It's not crap. It is expensive. But what price do you put on your finger(s)? If you have to go to the emergency room and/or have surgery, that's going to cost more than the saw does. It's just an insurance policy. There in case you need it. And hope that you never do.
@@johnpietros9439 Do you have any examples of why you think it's crap? Curious to know what issues you've experienced or if you have a detailed video that describes the problem(s).
Yes I really get upset that we don’t make anything here any more. I use a lot of tools that have been passed down for generations, and you can definitely tell the difference in the quality of a good American made product vs new Chinese garbage..
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I've got 2 delta bandsaws, and 2 drill presses (1 each for metalworking and woodworking) all older than myself, with made in USA/America stickers/stamps. Although missing convenience of speed control, or some safety features, I know they'll probably last for decades more. However, having the safety features/ tech of sawstop retro-fitted to an older cast-iron USA made TS top, would be the ultimate upgrade... which sadly will never happen. And we're forced to buy overseas products w/ varying price points. So, eventually so much stuff will be made overseas, raising their minimum wage, and causing the cost of transit to America overcome the "manufacturer" 's profit margins. They'll start building again in America, but by then, the USA unfortunately won't be the #1 consumer of goods... Sorry, I think I started ranting... but how I wish we kept manufacturing in the USA and kept the quality and customer service high...
@@KWise-sr4ml They manufactured in TN, but after 2010, I haven't seen a single product from powermatic that says "Made in USA". The same company that owns Jet (possibly supplies Grizzly w/ their parts), owns Powermatic- JPW Industries Inc. also owns Wilton, Baleigh Industrial tools, and if you're into metal working, they also own Edwards Manufacturing. I think only Baleigh and Edwards are made completely in the USA. Maybe Powermatic makes parts and accessories in their TN location. If you see something made here w/ a manufacturer date after 2010, do let me know...
I bought a SawStop about 18 months ago and have loved it. The quality is outstanding as is the dust collection, and of course, the safety. I recommend them.
SawStop. Made in America. Grizzly. Made in China. Nuff Said. I’m just a weekend woodworker. Been using a Delta cabinet saw for twenty five years. Pick up my 3 hp SawStop next Saturday. It was north of 4000 dollars here in Canada. But you can’t put a price on safety or quality. Great upload Tupelo.
Best of luck on your new saw. Let me know what you think of it. My delta saw was a workhorse. Safety is key in enjoying a lifelong hobby like woodworking.
I've made this mistake a few times along the way... Now I take all of my profits, when needed, and turn them back into the shop to upgrade my equipment. My grandfather told me a long time ago, and I'll never forget it, "Cry once when you buy it, or cry every time you use it" your choice. Rich~
I don't care which brand of saw you use, even Saw Stop, a kickback will not occur as you described when you use the riving knife. It prevents the work from coming away from the fence at the rear and rising up and over the blade to return back at you. It's just that simple.
Let me say first , Grizzly makes fine machinery for the money. 2nd, I have 8 pieces of Grizzly machinery in my shop and use them for what they were made for. 3rd, I have had kickback before when a piece of plywood went into my gut, and it hurt. That saw I had DID NOT HAVE A RIFING KNIFE, so that is why I got hurt, it was an old table saw. After that happened I purchase a new Grizzly table saw with a RIFING KNIFE so that will not happen again . As for the blade guard I do not use them , they are junk and get in the way of cutting material. If you would have had a rifing knife on your table saw I don't see you getting hurt or that probably wouldn't have happened . True grizzly has issues with their machinery but that is why its cheaper and made in china. I do agree with you on the Grizzly dust collection on their saws, VERY POOR, my saw has 2 areas that suck dust and neither of them work good. They need to make the inside bottom of saws slope at a angle to the dust port, and improve air intake around the blade height adjustment handle to limit air sucking in that area. I have tried to block it but to no success. I keep my rifing knife on my saw at all times. In closing go get the Saw Stop you want , you'll be a lot happier ! Oh I almost forgot, get rid of that old design rip fence and buy a INCRA fence, they are Fantastic. Best fence I have ever owned, worth every penny, you'll Love it !
Yes my old Delta UniSaw had no riving knife. That’s why it bound and pinched the blade. It was my fault. The dust collection is exactly as you said. I too have hvac taped every seam and crack, and I do believe their newer saws may have improved. I just did a fence mod that I will video that helps the parallax issue. I offered SawStop to work with me on a new saw and I would have a giveaway for mine, but nothing as of yet. Thanks for the honest response..
Sorry for your bad experience. I had a grizzly 5hp with the router table attached. Never had a single complaint about that saw. It did what it was supposed to and held its accuracy setting dead on. I guess everyone has different experiences
Right on, quality first. I love my 5hp PM 2000. Truly the trunions are heaver and impressive on the saw stop. I was viewing one for $5000.00, truly beautiful and ridged!! But they are heavy enough even on my unisaw. I don't like the blade eating cartridge. The cost of both is(blade and cartridge) is outrageous! They need to have/invent a computerized brake,, then I would buy Done! I have Done wood working my whole life professionally....still can count to ten.....but to each his own. Bought mine at an auction 2008 almost new.....$1200.00.......what a blessing!! just jim
Wow I’m going to go to some auctions..lol. If I could find a nice used Powermatic I’d jump on it too. Nice used machinery is really hard to find...heck I’d buy my old Unisaw back if it were for sale! Thanks for the reply
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 unisaws are everywhere, cabinet makers die....typically the relatives don't know anything about the countless details in the shop. They want to sell it all to one person, not painfully slow coupled with endless discussions about something they know nothing about! Even when the shop owner wants to retire...they can hardly sell there business "tools for 10 cents on the dollar. The building and property is where marketable value is. Also some of the best pieces maybe 3 phase....nobody can run it without a phase converter....still a constant vigle of Craigslist, equipment dealers, pawn shops for small tools. Ask the equipment dealers if they know any cabinet shops about to retire or on the edge for what ever reason....I buy new only when the job forces me into it....
So I have had a SawStop for 8 years, after owning others for 30 years. I have had to replace one cartridge because I forgot to override the brake when cutting a wet cedar picket. I have worn through more blades than the SS brakes have eaten. FWIW the SS brake and electronics is computerized. You have to boot up the saw before use.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I have always thought the PM 2000 to be bulletproof but there is a recent YOUTube video where a "new" PM 2000 had a shocking amount of problems. It had so many that PM replaced the saw after the original burned up a motor, and two magnetic switches. And a few other problems. But anything can happen with any brand. But no saw will prevent a major injury like a SawStop.
I've come close to buying a Grizzly table saw so many times thinking maybe I'll get lucky and not get one of their lemons. The problem is that there are just too many Grizzly lemons. The risks are simply too high, and like a casino the house always wins. Thanks for posting this video! It cured me of my irrational temptations to gamble with quality. Spend the money because the costs of subpar equipment are far more expensive.
Thanks..you’re spot on. That’s what makes Grizzly a “risk”. Get a lemon and you get to work with their customer service, wait on parts, and then fix it. Their customer service I have to say was really great. It’s just the quality control of units and parts that makes it a gamble. I’d rather be woodworking than constantly working on the machinery… Thanks for the rational comment.. best of luck on your selection.
I see the reason for safety consciousness but by using other tools and jigs you can work just as safe at a much more budget minded cost. I cut up plywood with a track saw and use the table saw to cut smaller more manageable pieces with crosscut sled for added safety. When the patent runs out on the saw stop and there are many competitors making the saws. Saw stop will most likely drop the price. I have been wood working in my family shop since i was about 10 years old and nobody in my family lost any digits, but I see the safety advantage and If i was able to afford the new saw I would consider that technology, but as things stand now I will keep using the old delta.
I too have recently bought a track saw (Makita corded version), and I absolutely love it. Saw Stop is priced very high, but it’s made very well. My old Delta Unisaw was a tank, and I’d take it back in a minute if I could. I haven’t been able to afford to buy it as well. Stay safe and thanks for contributing.
Hope you see these comments. As far as the cursor on the fence, take off the plastic, scribe another line in the plastic (on the opposite side as the factory scribed line) and color it in with ink. This should get rid of the problem that you are having with lining up the cursor and the measuring tape. As far as the cabinet dust collection, try adding a slanted false bottom (1/4 plywood) (might/might not help). Get in touch with LeeWay tools. He makes a blade guard w/dust collection. I've been using his Shark Guard on my Jet table saw for a couple of years that is the best I've ever used. Not cheap but very well made and thought out. Regarding the softness of the metal this is has been a common problem with all of the Grizzly tools that I've had and ain't got no more. I guess it's one of the ways they cut costs, (that and QC). I guess in that respect you' screwed.
As I've said elsewhere, the modifications should not be necessary at that price. It's bad design. You can have good design and bad quality control for low price. For non-dangerous occasional use tools, that may be ok. This is bad at both.
If the accident your describing was a kickback then SawStop tech will not protect you. The antkickback fingers on a blade guard might if they are built strong enough. With 5 horse motor antikickback fingers won't even save you. I've been using a cabinet type table saw for 40+ years now and have always used the rule of never push wood through the saw or clear wood from behind the blade with your fingers and always keep several push sticks on the saw top. Besides there are other machines in a wood shop as dangerous as a table saw and all with no blade stop tech.
Might have been said but Sawstop would NOT have prevented the accident described at the start. I do think it’s a relatively high quality saw compared to anything made by Grizzly
When I was getting more serious about woodworking, I bought the G0771Z and was almost immediately frustrated with it, but it was the most I could afford. The gripes I have with mine aren’t exactly the same as yours, but they’re close: The riving knife on mine is almost impossible to remove. I almost needed stitches once because I slipped while removing it. The blade elevating turn wheel lock broke off, and it using a wing nut to keep the wheel on my machine. The rear panel wasn’t machined well, and the screws stripped out the holes, so I just leave it off the saw. My saw came with a cheaper ex-al fence that “works” but moves while clamping it down, so I use a tape measure every time I want to make a cut. The issue you have with your belt tensioner is one I don’t have oddly enough. It’s pretty easy to access the bolt on mine, but your other issues with the tables not fitting well and your anti-kickback cauls scratching the surface were all issues I see with my saw. It was all I could afford at the time, but I know i’ll be replacing it sooner or later. Thanks for your video!
That dust heap is made worse by the height from base to hole. It means the vortices of air are impacting the dust into a cake of resin rich softwood until you get the current smooth path to the hole. If you're stuck with the machine, make a filling of wood or polystyrene or other shapeable material (preferably flame resistant) to replicate the cake that you have. The present box might let more dust out with a low air speed, high air volume extractor. But, best get rid. I've had two dangerously faulty sliding bevel mitre saws. Suppliers took them back and refunded immediately. Both budget pro rather than quality DiY. For occasional use, get quality DiY, otherwise go well reviewed pro and try before buy if possible - unless it's not potentially dangerous. Thanks for a very helpful video.
Glad to hear you're okay. My two cents on safety. If ever you have to take your eyes off when using any tools first you power off the tool put it down if portable before you do any thing else. I apply this to any thing I do.
Question - regarding the fence position indicator and its lack of magnification - is the FENCE moving, or are you experiencing parallax error (the indicator line seeming to shift based on the side-to-side angle at which you view it)? Those are two very different things; if the fence is stable and unmoving, parallax can be reduced (or almost eliminated) in several ways. Old-style voltmeters addressed the problem by having a mirrored surface on the meter scale. One simply lined up the pointer (or in this case, the indicator line) with its own reflection. That's not a practical solution in this case, but there are other things that can be done - bringing the actual indicator line as close as possible to the tape will greatly reduce parallax (perhaps mounting the indicator plexi with the etched line down?). Also, viewing with your dominant eye only when setting will go a long way in getting better accuracy (especially if, like me, you have problems with your eyesight, such as astigmatism). The dust in the cabinet is definitely a problem... I'd fabricate some angled ramps from plywood to direct the dust to the collector hose. As for the belt tensioning nut - have you tried a crow's foot wrench on your ratchet extension? I do agree that Sawstop makes an exceptional (and safe) saw, but it's out of the price range for most of us. Those who say, "save up and wait" must have a trust fund, because every time I try that, life happens and the money has to be re-allocated. Good luck.
Yeah..lol my saving has the same issue. I saved and then materials went through the roof, it’s material =$$ As for the fence. The original fence faces were sooo out of parallel that it wasn’t funny. Fixed that by making my own out of leftover corian. It’s the viewfinder..it’s just not magnified. It’s flat plexiglass viewers. Not magnified like most others. I just deal with it until I move up to a new saw. Just crazy not to have a decent viewfinder.
I bought the Grizzly 1023. The dust collection setup is much better than shown here. Sloped bottom to the vacuum fitting, also shield around the blade with an internal connection to the main vacuum inlet. Seems to work well. My fence is also different than the one shown here, but still not as good as my old Biesemeyer. Sadly, your comments on the side extension table are true for the 1023 as well. It's junk made from paper mache. had to rebuild the whole thing. I also had even worse problems with the blade guard. On the 1023 they put in a plastic insert on the saw table for those kickback blades to run on. The blades ate that up in about a day. I manufactured an aluminum insert to replace the plastic and they gouged that up. Took a file to the teeth to dull them a little and they still jammed into the insert. Now I just leave the blade guard off. I am a hobbyist so spending the extra money is hard to justify, but if I was doing it again..............
Im hearing just about the same comments from most woodworkers. Unfortunately if we want to save $$ then we have to deal with these flaws. Just sad that the safety items aren’t thought out...
I just bought a new 3 HP SawStop from Grizzly of all places. They were the only vendor that I could find that could get it to me before summer. I got the industrial mobile base, floating overarm dust collection and outfeed table with it. Can't wait to get it put together and start cutting wood. It will be a huge upgrade from my Shopsmith Mark V. I hope you get your SawStop soon!
Thank you.. I started with a shop smith first. I saw Grizzly actually sold Saw Stop too at the time I purchased my saw. Their salesman pointed to their saw over spending the extra $$ I purchased three machines from them. My table saw, planer, and shaper.. The planer is the best. The other two were substandard to say the least. Best of luck on your new saw. Happy Easter
You remind me of myself. I let price point influence my initial decision about getting what I really should get, then end up taking a loss when I bite the bullet and upgrade. I’ve done this with tools, cars, clothes, etc. I very nearly did the same thing when my Craftsman motor gave out, but fortunately bought the 3 HP SawStop and couldn’t be happier. Aside from the safety feature, it is just an excellent saw in every single category. My advice to you is sell the GO 690 and order the 3HP SawStop. You don’t need the 5HP so save the money and get the sliding attachment instead. You can justify it from the standpoint of safety. Plastic surgeons will tell you that table saw accidents are the most common injuries they deal with. I’m sorry for your frustration but at least you still have all your digits. Get the SawStop before something bad happens. Looking forward to your review of the best table saw available.
Exactly..do you have the sliding table? I was considering that or a trac saw for ripping full 4x8 sheets down. Torn rotator has stopped me from toting them on the saw. If you do have the sliding table..do you like it? The safety aspect is a definite selling point. I worked in my younger days part time in a cabinet shop during layoffs. The 30 year plus veteran carpenter cut off four tips of his fingers the week after I went back to work. Accidents aren’t planned..they happen to the best of us.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I do not have the sliding table but I do have the torn rotator. I do very little with sheet goods but if I did, the slider would definitely be an add on. I’m actually more interested in the router table accessory because my old Rockler/Jessem rig has seen better days.
As soon as I save the $$ I’m putting this one on the market.. I think back in the 90’s Delta and Jet were major competitors. I still have my jointer, and bandsaw from back then and they are still great. Happy Easter
Why would you complain about a crap saw? I think your better off looking at a quality one instead. SawStop isn't the best saw either.. all they did was setup a conduction test to stop the saw.. that's not really that amazing.
5 years ago I purchased my second used Jet cabinet saw. Overall it's an excellent performing machine but that's because the first thing I did was to install a Biesemeyer fence. Second I made zero clearance blade inserts. Both big improvements. Mine does not have a riving knife. I get by with a splitter. The dust collection sadly, is very similar to yours. No matter what I do, I can't get the saw dust to collect very well. I just have to deal with cleaning out the saw after every project. I may purchase a better saw someday but for now, it will do.
That’s the fence I had on my old saw, and absolutely loved it!! Going from that to this is just stepping backwards. I’m dealing with the dust issue just as you are. I’m saving as we speak.. ty for your insight
If I had money for a SawStop I would spend it on better shop lighting, Shelix heads for my planer and jointer and a Swedish workbench and maybe a shaper that has a router bit collet. I mean SawStop is ingenious. But so pricy. And it only eliminates one danger. And that is after my son-in-law split his middle finger right up to the second knuckle. Split it right down the center. Like he’d laid it out with a blueprint. The guy that owned the cabinet shop was scared he would get sued. He just paid the hospital bill. And that was that. And my son-in-law has a stiff middle finger. I’ll bet his boss wishes he’d bought a SawStop! Heck! I have a scar on my right index finger from a table saw. Still not convinced. That is a lot of money.
Lighting is a biggie for sure. I upgraded my lighting several years ago, added a shelix to my Jet jointer, and bought the Grizzly shaper and added the router collet. Love those Swedish workbenches, but don’t have one. I had said Saw Stop for quality build and safety, but it’s definitely big bucks… I just saw a Harvey table saw video, and for the money, I’d say it’s definitely worth a good look. No safety cartridge, but it looks as though it may serve the niche we are all looking for. Quality build, and nice features, with a great price! I’d have a look if you’re in the market…
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 it sounds like you have your shop together. No, I’m not shopping. I’m good with my old Grizzly 1023. I’m just saying I think some of this expensive “top-of-the-line” equipment is over hyped. I guess I’ll go to woodworking shows and see for myself.
Like I keep saying...it’s for sale !! Anyone interested in cutting crooked boards and working on equipment should contact me for a deal..ASAP so I can upgrade.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 Crooked boards my ass. You have to really suck for this to cut crooked. My first saw was a Ryobi... I had to get REAL creative with that thing and still made nice projects with clean lines and tight joints. I still don't have a saw this nice. There's a woman on youtube who does woodworking, forget her name, brunette, cute girl, she's using a dewalt contractor saw and makes great stuff.
@@urwholefamilydied crooked boards? I’m lost.. I don’t make crooked joints. Fine furniture can’t be made on a contractor saw. Sure the project looks great.. that’s why they make wood putty. 1/16” X four sides = 1/4” I have transitioned from that stage to finer quality woodworking with no putty. It’s just the progression to excellence. If you’re ok with wood putty, and covering small imperfections .. fine I have entered and won art shows with my woodworking, and I won’t go back. To each his or her own right? It’s just about enjoying it.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 you have to read the comments thread not to be lost... from you: "Like I keep saying...it’s for sale !! Anyone interested in cutting crooked boards and working on equipment should contact me for a deal..ASAP so I can upgrade." Then my rebutell was: This thing aint making crooked boards unless you're the worst woodworker ever and have no clue what you're doing. I was working on a Ryobi and getting ok results back in the day.
FWIW, my Sawstop cabinet saw gets extremely gunky on the blade height adjustment. Usually when cutting a lot of pine. Have to clean the mechanism a lot. 5-6 x a year.
Yes I hate working with sappy pine. I make a lot of American Flags and hand carve the stars. All of my equipment gets pitch on it. Smells great but not good on the equipment for sure.
I often wonder of the manufacturers ever try, or test, their products before putting them on the market. This is not just with saws, but so many other things too. The flaws you have pointed out, particularly the dust evacuation system, make me wonder if there are any woodworkers in the engineering department. I know the owner of the company is quite an accomplished guitar maker, so he should know about woodworking machinery, but wonder if he spends too much time "at the desk".
Yes, exactly. This could be a great machine for the price, but the lack of simple engineering concepts and quality control issues makes it a second pick at best. I have fixed most of the issues from the factory and use this saw daily, but I haven’t fixed the dust collection problems on the motor access door and pick up port as of yet.
Buy the sawstop, I was in the same boat. That grizzly saw vibrates like crazy and I don't like where the blade sits, you definetly need an out feed table because there isn't much room after the blade.. The safety feature on the sawstop is a bonus on top of the fit and finish, cadillac of cabinet saws. I'm glad I sold mine and got the sawstop
Thanks, and I agree on the blade opening and table. I can barely get my hand in the opening to put on the nut. I’ve actually dropped it in the saw cabinet several times and went fishing.
Thanks for the video. You make many interesting points. I got my first cabinet saw a Grizzly G1023L with router extension for my 50th birthday 16 years ago. I see the similar issues, except I got an Incra TS-LS fence about 10 years ago, which I think is a fantastic fence system. A comment about the dust collecting inside the cabinet, with a 5hp cyclone (Clear-vue) I don't have more than 1/2" of saw dust in the bottom, but even with a 1.5hp dust collector I never had the sort of build up you got. Overall I love the Grizzly, it is very much like the G0690, but I just haven't had any problems with it. Now I'm about to get a Saw Stop, the industrial version with most of the bells and whistles, and I plan to locate it back to back with the Grizzly, and put an Incra TS-LS fence to match on the Saw Stop. I'm pretty excited about doing this. About accidents, 8 years ago I had a similar kick back with a 24" square piece of 3/8" plywood. It hit just below the belt buckle, a lump formed in a few days which an MRI showed was a hematoma (blood clot in tissue, 3" long). That trip to the hospital cost $1600. As someone already noted here, the Saw Stop would not prevent this, but it's still a comment about safety and I will be putting the JessEM Clear Cut table saw guides on the new saw.
You are right on the money. I just passed on a two month old 5hp Saw Stop with sliding table only bc the saw wasn’t taken care of (table and rail rust). Had it been taken care of better, I would have probably bought it. I’m actually still thinking of offering a little less for it..say $5000 The Jessem clear cuts are on my list, even for my Grizzly. My Grizzly is now tuned in with tons of modifications, and I’m using it daily, but it still not the quality of the SawStop. I’d be excited too, if I had it on order. Best of luck to you. I think you’ve made great decisions here. Let me know how you like it, and you’ll have to tell me more about your Clear View vac. I’m in the market for a cyclone. Thank you for your experience
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 The sliding table on the saw stop is nothing like a European full size one, so I have not been too concerned about it? Otherwise I do have an Incra Miter 5000 sled. If the table and rail rust is surface rust only I'd probably be more than happy to pay 50-60% of the normal price. I just cleaned by table saw and 8" jointer with an orbital sander, Scotch-Brite pad and WD-40 (the anti-rust version) and they look great. The odd permanent mars are just "healthy signs of aging". Otherwise, as for me a new cabinet saw is a one-time life time purchase, anything more than 60% I would rather buy new. It just so happens I'm fortunate to be selling a classic car and all the funds are for the shop. So I might see it differently if funds were are bigger issue, as would normally be the case for me. I'll add more on the Clear Vue later.
Something that will help with the dust collection and is cheap and transferable is to buy some refrigerator type magnets on Amazon. Put them over the slots for adjustment of the mitre and any other big air holes that you can’t tape over permanently. It will increase the suction a lot.
I’ve covered all of my holes, and even went inside the saw and covered all the seams with AC foil tape. It helps but the shelf is about 4” below the takeoff pipe. Bad design. I was thinking of moving the shelf up, but truthfully I’m waiting to up to the Saw Stop. Thank you for your help. Great ideas since I do have fridge magnets and I’m thinking I can find some holes to cover.
Glad I could help. It’s not impossible to work on, but if you’re going to spend hard earned money I’d invest elsewhere. I’m hearing great things about Harvey, but I can’t get to see one.
Relax, you're lucky to have all that fancy equipment. I am still using my 1957 10" craftsman contractor saw, that was thrown in and out of the back of my truck from job to job. It's been rebuilt a couple of times, put both extensions on the rightside.
I bought a 3 hp, 52” Jet. I wish I would have bought a Powermatic. I know it’s the same company but Powermatic is the higher end. While it is accurate, I had issues with one of the cast iron extension wings. The right side. It is slightly bowed in the middle by a couple mm. They sent out four different tables and everyone had the same issue. They finally just gave me a couple hundred dollars back, which I agreed to being it wasn’t a huge deal.
I have heard some good stuff about the Harvey saws. Thanks for sharing your experience, it is DEFINITELY going to play a role in my decision in the future.
There's plenty of cheap and nasty US, UK, even German manufacturing. Also plenty of top class Chinese, Taiwan, Indonesian manufacturing. They all manufacture to the specification set by their contract. The brands set their standards according to what they think their market will bear. In UK, there has been a culture of buying cheapest while hoping for the quality of the best. That destroyed our car industry to benefit of Japan and Germany. A simple example was IKEA (yes, they had vastly superior quality for similar price and instant availability) blowing MFI away - and deservedly so.
I dont think it is right that people bash grizzly on quality and compare it to a brand that is twice the cost...something has to give when you pay less for an item...
Sad to see so many corners cut. What dust collector are you using and how far away is it? Idk why any saw only has a 4" port on a cabinet saw... I modified my el cheapo hybrid to have a 6" port connected to my Clearvue and inside my cabinet is spotless. One thing is to make sure you have sufficient openings between the table and cabinet on left side to get a strong cross wind to direct the saw dust towards the chute. Also need to plug all openings on same side as dust chute or it will slow the air stream down you are trying to create.
I’m using a 2hp harbor freight unit from about 12’ away. I’m actually looking at Oneida and Clearvue right now to upgrade. How do you like your Clearvue?
I only use 4" ports and quick connects connected to a 30' HD flex hose. That hose is connected directly to my 1100 CFM DC. I could not wish for better dust removal. 4 inches is plenty even on my 15" Delta stationary planer and 12" jointer/planer. Having an extravagant fixed DC system with multiple curves and gates all introduces air leaks and suction. I'm not saying this is what you have but the simpler the duct system the better the suction.
@@11211lcb yup 4” is certainly plenty for most applications. Nothing wrong with central systems with blast gates either. Good blast gates don’t really leak and would be less restrictive then 30’ of flex hose.
If you do end up getting the Saw Stop, you should get an extra cartridge when you buy. Prices go up and you need to have the cartridge should there be an accident. If accident happens, it is fast but, it does sacrifice the cartridge. So far as the dado features. It is downright frustrating to use. The tolerances are so tight it is extremely hard to mount the dadoes. For us, we have another saw, (delta) that has been repurposed for the dado jobs. We use 1/2" ply for cabinet box and dado the face frames. I build drawer boxes and dado for 1/4" bottoms. It only takes about a minute to change the dado over. We love the Saw Stop but the dado is aggravating.
Thanks so much. My old saw was a Delta Unisaw from 1990. It was a great saw. The safety feature on the SawStop is great. I really appreciate threads up on the extra cartridge. Thank you
Yes there is a screw at each end of the throat plate. The rear screw actually locks the plate so it can’t pop up in the rear while in use. The front screw on this model threads into the table top, and must be removed to swap plates out. I’ve never had this screw on any of my other saws. The plate has the same four screws for leveling as most others do. Hope this helps..
Sorry that you got injured while using this saw. I too am facing the same dilemma of saw stop over grizzly due to cost. Love the safety feature but from what I've read that's about all it offers versus some of the other competitors. Anything for me is a major upgrade from using a rigid jobsite saw. I'm starting up a shop and trying to get away from working in the field so much. Thankfully in over 20 years I've never cut my self on any saw or had major kickbacks from material that injured me. 🙏
I still use my Grizzly, but if you are going to start up a shop. I’m suggesting you buy a better table saw. Delta, Jet, Powermatic ..actually Powermatic is a great choice. There’s also Laguna, but I don’t know enough about their table saw to rate it. The table saw is your most used tool in the shop. Spend the most money on that, and buy the planer, and jointer from Grizzly. I purchased three major tools from them, and each one has had at least one major issue with operating correctly. I have a Jet bandsaw that is still chugging along after 20 years!! I only replace blades and band saw tires when worn… Stay safe and good luck on your new shop!!
Tried to get SawStop to get me a saw and have me do a side by side comparison , and I was going to give this away free to a subscriber, but they backed away after considering it. I’ve got this one tuned as best I can. Works fine, just has some bad design flaws that annoys the heck outta me..
I had a grizzly (different model but the blade guard was very similar). It was so loose that it would move from side to side (Slop in the attachment to the top of the splitter) so far that the metal part of the guard hit the blade. After changing my shorts, I found that i was down one blade guard and a nice Amana saw blade. Apparently cutting steel with the blade turned out to be a little hard on the carbide teeth. :)
I think is a case where you get what you pay for. Most who buy Grizzly products are on a budget and just need something that gets the job done. On the other hand, brands like SS and Powermatic claim to be premium, state of the art products and for the price, they should be.
i use to have that saw but sold it when i moved to Europe .when i did have though , i loved it .
none of the things you mentioned were an issue for me , so i think a lot of times with tools and anything in life , people have issues that are personal desires or tics that are not necessarily a fault of the tool .
I'm pretty sure a sawstop wouldn't have prevented his problem. In fact, people still get injured on sawstop saws all the time. The gimmick just makes people less cautions and also costs them money every time you forget to remove a staple that held a price tag on from the wood you are cutting.
how could they not be an issue to anybody
True, but that fence seemed pretty bad to me. He shouldn’t have had to redo the sides with counter top strips.
I don't think a sawstop would have saved you from kickback???
Pretty much.
Exactamundo. I think he just wanted to go on a bitch fest.
He may not of had a saw with a riving knife, however I think the point was he had a kickback that pulled him which could have pulled him into a blade.
I think the point was that the incident had caused him to really think about safety in general, not just for kick backs. In that sense, I can see why he would want to re-think not getting a SawStop. I don't think he was claiming that a SawStop would have prevented the kickback itself
Since you nor I were not there to witness what happened it would be hard to determine exactly what caused the accident. But the OP has indicated that the accident happened with the older Unisaw and it had no splitter or riving knife. The Saw Stop has both and that feature is aimed directly at preventing kickback.
Your accident with the plywood could just as easily have happened on a SawStop. Stock feeders such as the JessEm guides would have prevented that accident. Unless the Grizzly doesn’t have a riving knife, there would be no difference there. From the opening shot it is evident that you don’t use a blade guard. A guard also would have most likely prevented your accident. A SawStop without a blade guard doesn’t prevent kickback any more than any other saw. Anyone who uses a SawStop without the guard is still taking unnecessary chances. The SawStop advantage is with skin contact, not kickback. As I said in the beginning, if you had been using stock guides, the first one positioned so it’s engaged before the blade enters the wood, you would not have had that kickback. SawStop or Grizzly, same result. This is coming from a proud PCS owner.
The kickback was on my old saw (no riving knife).This saw the guard is just plain useless. It’s very flimsy, and when you try to lower the blade with the guard in place, the anti kickback pawls dig into the table and they dig into the cast table. You have to lock the kickback pawls into the up position hooks and then lower the blade.
The guard was not designed by an every day user for sure.
The jessem guides I will be buying when I get my new saw.
Thanks for your input. Very well versed.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 From what I can see in your post you are not using the riving knive on your saw anyway. Unless it's an older model it came with one but you do need to install it.
Actually, a riving knife, which is on the SS, goes a long way in preventing kickback. Not all but a majority.
I assume he realizes that he was hurt by kickback, and was just saying once kicked, is more aware of the claws. But the other thing is under no circumstance have people able to wonder into your shop. I lock the door. That has some safety issues around it also. All this Sawstop fanboy stuff... I have regular low powered tools in my shop that can literally twist me into mush like toffee on a stick. If you don't already know what I mean, I will not tell you as you can't un-google those pictures. Loose a finger. Never going to happen, but it is so far from being the worst thing that can, lordy I would hit that trade if I had a chance.
The worst injury, and the only bad one I have had on a TS is a kickback. piece was a little too wide, short and high. But not so off that it was obvious, or that the piece that hit me was light. I may not have been half the boxer I thought I was until I took that shot. LOL at myself.
Perspective. I have that model saw and am very happy with it. But I had a Bosch contractor saw before that. I was right in the middle of a customers project when it gave out and had to replace with something right away. I would love to have gotten a SS or Powermatic, but at more than twice the cost I just couldn't. The Grizzly was quite a step up for me. You had one of the best saws made at the time you bought it (when Delta had ownership that cared), and took a step down. Some of the quality issues you brought up are not acceptable, but the others? Remember, the Grizzly is less than half the cost! You can't expect Festool quality when you buy Ryobi, but you might get a pretty decent tool. Do you expect the same fit and finish from a Nissan that you would from a Benz? It is what it is. I don't think anyone ever said that Grizzly is as good as SS or Powermatic. PS - not trying to be a smart a**.
No problem.. yes I miss my old Delta. I thought the Grizzly would be about the same quality as my old one, but I was mistaken.
You’re correct when you say it’s half the cost for a reason, but I just thought it would be a little better. Just silly quality control. But I can still get things done on it until I save for a SS...
Thanks and have a blessed Easter
Thanks. Helpful for me as I have an inherited Grizzly I need to sell so I can buy a more lightweight table saw. I rent, and I may have to transport the damn thing.
Mate I really do feel for you, when I started to do woodworking my wife got me a triton table saw. I never liked it, used it a couple of times but I quickly realised it was a piece of junk, all I can say that the manufacturer through safety out the door and put profit first. From the knowledge I got from that experience , I started looking for a saw I could use with complete confidence. Man I searched the net, found some good table saws but always the safety angle was foremost on my mind. I happened upon Saw Stop by accident, when I saw the price I just said " next," but for some reason I kept going back to the website Long story short, I worked out which one best suited my needs and which attachments I would require. I am working towards that goal because I do not want to do it by piecemeal, when I buy it, I will have all I need at once. I have learnt that if you settle for less than what you want, you will receive less than what you settled for, I hope it works out for you. Thank you for your honest review, you have given me insights of what to do and what not to do,thankyou.
Frank Nolan
I am in the woodworking/contracting/home builder trades. All of my colleges including myself, that have switched to the SawStop, have not been disappointed. One colleague was an upper-end home builder., 6 figures. He and I built the kitchens together. I cut the oak plywood carcasses in my shop, he built the face frames for those carcasses in his shop. All joints were dados or groves. No butt joints. Needless to say, precision for parts to fit together had to be dead on. I was using a Jet cabinet saw, he was using an older Unisaw.
Today, he is retired and has moved to his lake house and building a small shop. He feared getting rid of the Unisaw. He replaced it with the job site SawStop and he can't stop smiling.
@@11211lcb o
You have to watch the whole video before you make this comment. The kickback story was just a story he told. He went over the issues with this table saw.
My wife and are discussing selling the saw and buying the Saw Stop. I have worked really hard at getting this saw tuned.
The results are good, but it gets really annoying having to deal with things that I didn’t have to deal with before.
Plus I’m getting older, and I value my fingers more because I’ve owned them longer..ha ha
Now I’m faced with buying a new dust collector. I’m looking at Oneida Air. It’s the new saw or new dust collector, until I find that perfect tree (that grows $$). LOL
I upgraded to a sawstop a year ago. Literally the best shop decision I have ever made. You will not regret getting a sawstop.
I have one of the first Oneidas, Filter was internal back then. The thing that will suprise you is how good the dust collection is on the sawstop.
Look into ClearVue cyclones for dust collection. They are spendy but mine is my #1 piece of safety equipment in my shop and totally worth the money I spent on it. In fact, it's the only major tool purchase I've ever made new and have zero regrets.
have you looked at the jessem clear cuts to help make saw safer. installed on my grizzly and feel much safer
Stfu man. This video is just u nitpicking all the small things to justify to yourself and wife that spending 5k instead of the 1.5k is worth it. It’s a form of cognitive dissonance.
I appreciate these commentaries. You really have to wonder sometimes how these things happen after so many years and so many examples of doing things correctly. This is video gold. All the expensive products should have this type of video out on them and their people in charge should be watching them.
Thanks
I bought a Sawstop 3hp PCS with the sliding crosscut table and router table in the 36" extension. I can balance a nickel on the table and start and stop the saw without it moving. I never use the blade guard because I find it gets in the way more than it helps. I wouldn't trade this saw for any thing.
Most of my other equipment is Grizzly and l'm well pleased with the way they perform. I went with the Sawstop because the table saw is the one tool that I use multiple times every day. No regrets with any of my purchases. The planer and jointer work great with no snipe, the 17" bandsaw cuts very well, and the drill press does its job.
I have an old grizzly contractor saw from the 80's...added balanced machined pullies and segmented belt...hums, no vibration. added a U50 fence and a side extension with a Jessum lift...It was a great little work center. Had to use thin kerf blades because of the motor size. Looking for an upgrade...it will be my last saw. If a SS trips do I need to order a new cartridge?...I'm retired in Mexico...How long does that take to order???...Would anyone compare a SawStop to a Felder or Hammer?????
@@LiloUkulele I haven't tripped my saw but I bought an extra cartridge when I got the saw. You do have to replace the cartridge when it trips but that's not a big deal considering the alternative!
Thanks for sharing your experience . I ordered a Sawstop and while waiting until it was back in stock for them to ship it to me, I started looking into the Festool TS55 tracksaw and an MFT type table. How the system saves space, how my fingers aren’t near a blade, good dust control etc. So after some brief researching, I cancelled the Sawstop order and had them throw the money down the Festool rabbit hole instead, and for what it’s worth, I couldn’t be happier with the new mobile set up vs my previous “everything is centered around a huge table saw” approach.
I’m actually looking at getting either the same system as you, or getting the kreg system..
Did you consider the Kreg in your choice? If not, what made you choose the Festool?
Thanks
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I looked at the Kreg system briefly, but then started to concentrate on Festool. I really like that I could store and stack everything in Systainers. I also like that I could just create my own MFT table slab top and place that on sawhorses whenever I want to make any cuts while simultaneously using bench dogs for the MFT. This entire set up takes a few more minutes than what I was used to doing on my tablesaw but in general the entire system is just so much more convenient for me. Festool is very accurate, while Kreg seems to just be trying to do what Festool has been doing much longer.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 festool is far superior than kreg
Is like sawstop is superior than grisly
Thanks. I’m probably going to get the Festool trac saw bc breaking down full sheets is getting really tough.
I’m recovering from a torn rotator cuff, and this just seems sensible. Now should I get the 55 or 75? I’m leaning towards the 75
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 sorry to hear that.
I got both of those machines the55 is a dream to break down sheet goods up to 1” the75 is on the heavier side i use for material 1”1/2 and up , i use my table saw now just for small rips or small material
I had a delta unisaw and loved it until I cut the tip of my finger off. I bought a SawStop and also love it. The manuals are great. It is easy to square the table to your blade and the dust collection is pretty good. I would highly recommend theSawStop. You won’t be sorry.
Thank you..I’m getting mostly positives about the Saw Stop.
Jet and powermatic are the same company. Laguna is nice for lathes, drum sanders, bandsaws but not so much table saws. I work at a woodcraft and I spend my weeks assembling these machines for customers and the store so I’ve been lucky to have an inside scoop on quality of machines as well as the quality of the companies as far as warranty, manufacturing, shipping etc. I take cabinetmaking as a student at a tech school where I use 2 sawstop ics models (7hp) and I also work in a shop making custom furniture using a pcs sawstop (5hp). I recommend the sawstop to everyone I talk to about it, not just because of the brake system (which is great working with knowing you have a potential safety net to keep your fingers intact) but the machines themselves are refined and beautifully manufactured. The proof is in the quality of the machine, if you can afford one, get one.
Thanks for the reply. My friend used to own a Woodcraft store in Fort Myers, Fl. That’s where I saw the demo when they first came out. My jointer and bandsaw are old jet machines, and have served me well. I sold my Powermatic 4224 lathe (should have never sold it), and sold my jet 3hp shaper which was a good machine with a so so fence.
Sounds like you enjoy furniture and cabinet making, which is great.
Working on well designed and safe machines makes woodworking so enjoyable. Who really wants to work on the machine more than the woodworking right?
Sounds like you’re on a path to success!
Thanks for the reply and your expertise. Woodworking is a great profession, and craft..
Jet and Powermantic are not the same company, they are both owned by the same company.
I like how you touched on so many details that were either not right or irritating. When you spend $2k + on a saw, the expectation is near perfection. Good video in my opinion!
Thanks for the compliment. Glad it helped.
For as much money as these saws cost, there should be in depth reviews like this for each make & model of saw.
Surprising that doing simple things like adding / removing blades, tensioning the belt & dust collection haven’t really been thought through in the Grizzly.
Thank you..
Engineering goes hand and hand with safety. The lack of thought that goes into these newer machines dives me crazy. Don’t even mention quality control…
Can you tell I’m a retired engineer??
When he said "all I saw was brown", I thought, oh hell no you didn't! 🤣🤣😂 2:33
That would've been the case for me I'm sure,
I don't have room for some huge cabinet saw like that even though they are nice with all the bells and whistles features. I have a 40+ yr old Craftsman 113 table saw with the stuff that came with it. Admittedly it takes me a little longer tinkering to get things lined up for some cuts, especially ripping, but in the end I get accurate cuts. I made a dust collection shute which works well and do regular maintenence on the saw to keep it true and clean. I also invested in some good blades which make a big difference in cut quality. My father was a carpenter for 55 years and I started working with him on his old table saw when I was 5yrs old. I'm nearly 75 now and am quite content with the old Craftsman I bought new decades ago. All this new technology is great, but it still comes down to the operator in the end. My saw won't take a riving knife and I never use the blade guard because it just gets in the way. I've had a few kickbacks over the years but know it was my own fault for them happening so I'm just that much the wiser and more careful to use it properly and avoid problems. I do woodworking for a hobby so maybe if I was doing it as a business things would be different. I think most people who watch these videos are hobbyist woodworkers also and most on a limited budget too. I've bought a few tools (mostly WEN which are terrific for the price) I needed like a drill press, a belt sander, a miter saw and a bandsaw and with those there is not much I can't do. For all those hobbyist woodworkers, work smart and use good common sense and you will do fine without all the high dollar fancy equipment.
It’s true. I had better older equipment. I just got to appreciate being able to count on the saw to be true without working on the saw instead of my project.
My Unisaw was hands down better than this, and the kickback was my own fault.
I totally agree with your assessment and review
Thanks.. it’s sad that we agree. That means their products are failing basic quality control measures.
The most important safety device in any power tool is the person using it!!
Got that right!
This is true however we are all human and make mistakes. There is no shame in admitting that and investing in a safer saw.
@@11211lcb I completely agree...and that’s why I’m not buying a tablesaw at all. I’m buying a Festool tracksaw and a Router Boss to do my dados/grooves etc.
It’s still less money than the Sawstop cabinet saw, and the only thing I can’t do with it is cut super-thick wood - and if I need to that maybe I’ll buy a bandsaw.
If the wood is clamped down well, it can’t come flying at you, and if you have both hands on the saw, it’s hard to cut your thumb off.
You're right, I think this woodworker want bells and whistle and likes the joneses gripes.
Shoulda... Coulda... Woulda!
Personally, Saw Stop is overpriced, and over-hyped.
You have a saw that can do any job you throw at it, and can do it as well as a Saw Stop.
If you are a professional, you know what to do about keeping yourself safe. That's your job.
But hey, we all covet what we don't have, and try to justify why we want it. Human, nature...
My accident was actually on my Delta Unisaw that I loved. Back then, they didn’t come with a splitter insert (great device now) and the ply pinched on the backside of the blade.
Definitely opened my eyes...
Hear you. My rule for family is when I am in the shop and tools are running DO NOT ENTER.
@@deanwilliams93 good advice or at least say don't talk to me.
@@deanwilliams93 my rule is if my wife wants to come in she flashes the lights off and on. It has never startled me, I think it works pretty well.
Man i know exactly what you are saying , i was about 15 we had an older Delta Unisaw in the Building trades Shop , probably a Early 70s model , this was 84 or 85 and i was ripping a 2 x4 that kicked back the same way , it knocked the breath out of me , a lot of the yournger guys may not realize just how hard those old saws could kick
@@jimweisgram9185 😂
I have the same saw and have been perfectly happy with it for years. I have the clearvue dust collector as well, I enlarged the hole is the table saw to 5” and the cabinet is always clean. I do agree on all your pet peeves though I was just dealing with it until I saw your video. Now I want a new saw. Lol
Lol ..
I was just looking at clear view myself, but as usual the only one I like from them is the big blue one. For some reason, that clear lexan like look doesn’t make me warm and fuzzy.
I’m also looking at Oneida.
But I’m sure as soon as I’m financially better of I’m jumping on the Saw Stop
But a good design need not have cost more in the first place and you shouldn't have to modify it so drastically
I have the clear one but it came with the larger fan blade. The thing works great. Loud but works great.@@tupelowoodcarver1785
Oh, I also have a Grizzly saw. It's the 771 though.
Wow, maybe I should do a video on the issues with my old Craftsman table saw that I bought brand new in 1991. It came with cast iron extensions that are still on it. I've used it for 30 years and it's still a good saw minus the modern safety features. The riving blade is built onto the blade guard so if you need to take the guard off, there's no riving knife. I've had a few near misses but fortunately nothing bad. About every 3 or 4 years I sand the cast iron table with 220 grit on an oscillating sander being careful to keep it flat and evenly paced. Then I use a good car wax to keep surface rust off and make my wood glide over it smoothly. I use a square against my miter gage and the blade for a sure 90° cut rather than rely on the miter gage increments. And I check the rip fence the same way with only a few thousands inch angle away from the blade on the exit end. I have built some nice cabinets, hope chests, gun cabinets etc with it and it's earned it's $300.00 price over these 30 years. Being alert and using keen awareness of safety is an absolute must with any table saw. When anyone speaks to me while its running, they get no reply until that cut is finished and the saw is off. My dust collector is my shop vac when I'm done. I Don't cry over sawdust on my cement floor. I vacuum it up. Now to your point, if I spent thousands of dollars on a super gold plated saw, I'd be bent out of shape over those nit picky things. Anyone thats used a table saw at some point has done some things with it that shouldn't have been done. But being extreamly aware every moment is the key. The moral of this story is, don't depend on a manufacturer of your tool. Just learn your tool and remember that it's your fingers, your body and only you can keep safe. Good video, and I can appreciate your concerns with the saw. I wish mine had the modern safety features but I can't afford a newer one. I'm getting older at almost 67 now so I have to be extra aware. Not as fast reaction time as yesteryear.
Few if any American Brand table saws had riving knives until SawStop came out with theirs in the early 2000's. European saws have had riving knives for decades. If your American brand TS has a riving knife today you can probably thank SawStop.
@@11211lcb like I said, mine has a riving blade built onto the blade guard. No idea when saw stop came out, matter of fact I never heard of them until this video but I bought my saw in 91
@@TheNewenglandboys That's not a riving knife. That's a splitter. While both items attempt to do the same thing (prevent kick back), they are not same device. Riving knives are safer, as they remain the same distance behind the blade regardless of blade height. Splitters, like the one on the 113, do not do that.
I'm a bit confused as to why you would sell a well liked table saw only to buy another. So I guess I don't understand the motive for even considering another saw, since even a Saw Stop doesn't prevent kickback. To address your points about the Grizzly G0690, you must first understand that you did not buy their top of the line saw. So you are expecting fit and finish of a $2500-4000 saw from a $1800 saw. All the little details are important, but can also be fixed and adjusted on this saw. You exchanged money for time. You didn't spend the money, now spend the time.
Table not in perfect plane, tap it into place. This could have happened in shipping to any saw.
Fence not perfect, adjust it. I'd have done that to an expensive saw anyway.
Dust collection port not ideal, but then no dust collection is worth any more than the collector pulling on that port.
Cast iron table scratches easily. I'm not sure that isn't the case with all newer cast iron.
Riving knife and guard held in by quick connects, because that saw was designed in an era when those items were often removed and never thought of again, so why make them expensive? Quick disconnect kinda says it all about those.
This is not to say all these things are unimportant, or aren't worth commenting on. They are details which make using the machine better, more rewarding, and less hassle. But That's what a Grizzly machine IS. Its a lower cost, owner takes on the "fine tuning" if you will, in exchange for a couple thousand dollars of cash still in pocket.
All that said, the saw is a great saw for the price. But you also are not wrong about it; its just you are expecting more than was advertised or supplied. BTW, if your open end wrench jaw flexes like you describe, get a better set of wrenches.
I’m in agreement with you. Back when I purchased my Delta Unisaw with Beismeyer 52”fence it was awesome. It was only $1490 back then,easy to align, and you could dial it in to within .002 of an inch. Yes it lacked the newer safety devices, but hey they weren’t around then.
This saw has more flaws than I actually exposed because I wanted it to be informative and for people to think about saving up and get something with less problems.
I could actually do another video showing the cast iron extension tables not being milled truly flat. I have worked with tape, shim and various other thickness materials only to have the front half of the extension wing true and the rear half down .008 of an inch.
I have three “Whole” fence assemblies shipped from Grizzly only to arrive damaged with no visable box damage?
Also the laminate table I have two of that arrived broken and I became so frustrated with not being able to work on the saw that I made my own in the video.
I could go on, but you get the picture. You are 100% right in expecting more, but actually I thought it would at least be as good as my old Unisaw.
Thanks for the response.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 Three notes regarding your reply. First, I think you had an exceptionally bad experience; I don't think all purchases from Grizzly, or of this saw in particular, as as bad as you had. That sucks, no way around that. Second, understand where these machines are made, and some of the issues become less design and more QC/competence/shipping care by the manufacturer. Last, as you noted, the CS techs at Grizzly are good at what they do. They take pride in their work. This may not necessarily be backed, or met in quality/quantity of that pride, by the company itself. I know this from personal experience. I hope you have better luck with the other machines and that you solve your saw dilemma, since a good day in the shop is the ultimate goal.
Because a SawStop will prevent a bad cut. And yes you can say you just have to be careful and that is true but who do you know that has never made a mistake or had an accident?
@@11211lcb perhaps you should reply after reading the entire response. I would have understood stepping up to a better saw. But his major concern was kickback, which saw stop cannot prevent.
@@Mrsnichols1965 I was answering your question. Why sell a well-liked saw? And somewhere in the thread, the OP has indicated the desire to keep all of his digits.
I don't understand the title....saw stop will save digits that's it....no saw prevents the number 1 biggest issue.. Kickback! I love my Laguna. Saw stop is wayyy overpriced. Yes your digits are priceless but kickback is the most common mishap with a table saw.
I agree. Euro sliders seem to minimize the danger better than traditional cabinet saws but, they're expensive, more than SS, especially if you want a sled for longer rips.
One thing to note though, that kickback is the number one cause of pulling fingers into the blade. Any saw with a riving knife goes a long way to stopping kickbacks.
Kick back is very common and a riving knife goes a long way to prevent that. BUT kickbacks are normally not nearly as devastating as a bad cut or an amputation. I have had both happen to me, kick backs multiple times. I am missing half of my left thumb. What do I worry about the most after owning a TS for 38 years? Another bad cut, but from a band saw or jointer, or circular saw, not my SawStop. If you don't realize the value of not cutting off a digit or the possibility of doing that I wish you a lot of luck.
I ordered the saw stop contractor model a couple of days ago. It will be an upgrade from my current Bosch job-site saw which is an okay saw but it has its limitations. I’m retired and a wood working enthusiast. The older I get the more I too think about safety. I made it this far with all of my appendages and I plan to keep things that way. At this stage of the game, IMO. it’s worth a few hundred $$ more to buy safer equipment. I’d hate to think what the medical bills would be for reattaching severed limbs…then there’s the life-long regret that would go with it.
That’s exactly where I sit on this myself. People don’t like to admit their mistakes..there’s an old saying “people have ten fingers, and they all point away from themselves”. The guy with nine is saying..”I should have bought a SawStop”… smart move..enjoy and stay safe!
Saw this on another TH-cam video. If you still have this table saw. The height difference of the table extensions is caused by the washers of the connecting bolts. The washer diameter is too big and pushes it up raising it about ten thousandths. Try either removing them and using the lock washer only or grinding them down. This enabled the extensions to become flush with the main table. Hope this helps.
Thank you. I’m going to try it and hopefully it works..thanks again
You made some very valid points there, especially since you have put in the time to earn the right to talk about the windfall of the grizzly saws; I got some bad news for you, I do have the saw stop, not just the 5hp, but the 3hp as well and stacked them back to back, the 3hp being the dedicated dado station, they work like a breeze, never had an issue with them, easy to tool them, change blades, etc; one still have to be careful and pay attention at all times when working on a table saw, even that the sawstop have the chip in them, I still practice the same safety approach as when I owned all powermatic line of tools; sawstop have some issues of their own, their side table is not all that great, but you work with it, you need a cyclone powerful dust collector when using cabinet saws, I bit the bullet and got a cleearview one, does wonders; sawstop got very slick and have an extension bendable tube from the blade housing to the outer connector that goes to the dust collector, that alone is ingenious as it sucks all dust coming off the blade, nothing escapes, even without the blade cover dust port, that only deal with the real floating particles that escape the inner suction system; At the time I got both, I wasn't really happy with the bill, but I knew that if I don't do it I will regret it over the years, I've been doing fine wood working for as long as I remember, including custom staircases of all designs one can imagine, so good tools is a must in those settings.
Best of luck to you in the future, you can always fix your past mistakes, all it is to it, to want to, you caught the phrase where i mentioned I had the entire line of powermatic....those were not cheap, and still I swiped the those table saws for the sawstops, I owned the sliders before but didn't like tham because those have their own limits, only great for big sheets rips, that's all.
Dan
Pap,
Thanks so much for the reply. Sounds like your the guy I’d like to work side by side with. I definitely need a cyclone. In fact I’ve just reached out to Oneida Air for a recommended system based on my shop layout. I’d like your input on your cyclone recommendations as well if you have more time. I had the old Delta, Powermatic, equipment which was the gold standard back then. I’m really glad you put your Saw Stop info in there.
Buy once cry once? I should have listened to my inner voice over my pocket book, but it’s another lesson learned.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 you sound like a good man, we all learn from our mishaps, lol; on some of my videos on my channel you can see the system I set up, too bad I speak in my native language, but I am sure you are intelligent and can figure things just by seeing it. Thanks for the reply.
Dan
@@PAPSROYALAPIARY I’ll check it out today. Thanks again.
An 1100 CFM non cyclone DC works just fine on my ICS SawStop. Good dust collection has more to do with the route between the saw and the collector than the collector. I have a 30' flex hose with a flared female end that connects to my TS, BS, and 15" planer with no breaks or gates.
If English isn't you native language, I commend you on your written comments.@@PAPSROYALAPIARY
I find this humorous, not because of what you're going through but unfortunately I have a craftsman 113 and would kill to have that saw.!! Great video anyways!
Live near Florida? You might get a deal!
Like the logo btw
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 depending on the deal I live close enough! Lol
the whole point of sawstop is you don't need all those guards to be safe. The saw stop fence is the equivalent of the beismeyer fence. We had two sawstops. The last saw spot i bought was used primarily used for lumber ripping. I had rockwell 5hp threephase table saw. a very good table saw. never did one repair in thirty years of use but didnt have the safety features of a sawstop. also a very smooth saw. Anyways I took the unifence of the rockwell and put on the sawstop. a very good combo to ripe lumber. ps the first sawstop probably saved my partners finger.
I really liked my old Delta Unisaw with the Beismeyer fence. I still have the Grizzly, but hurricane Idalia took the roof off my shop and it got a bath.
Glad the SawStop wasn’t in there or I woulda been really upset.
Cleaned up the Grizzly and it has war wounds but it still works.
Sawstop should be licensing the patent out to other saw manufacturers to make it more affordable for people. They can still get their money, and other manufacturers can compete on price of the saw going to the customer.
Yes, for safety reasons I agree, however I don’t blame SawStop for not sharing the patent. It makes them unique from other manufacturers.
Their saws are very well built. The safety feature gives them an edge over the high end manufacturers like Powermatic, Delta,Laguna,and Harvey..
Sawstop is a great saw, but it wouldn't have prevented that kick back accident. It's safety system is aimed at blade contact with flesh, not in preventing kick back except for the inclusion of a riving knife.
Yes, I’m going to do another video just to explain why the anti kickback pawls on the guard make you not want to use the guard.
The Sawstop might have prevented the kickback, it comes with a riving knife. And basically, the riving knife's only function is to help prevent kickback.
SawStop wouldn't have prevented the kickback. You have the guard removed along with the anti-kickback pawls, there's your problem.
I didn’t make it clear enough that the accident was my fault. The older saw didn’t come with those safety devices. The Grizzly has them, but they are total junk and don’t work.
I appreciate your review. However I just bought a Grizzly Extreme Series Cabinet saw (9/1/2023) and none of the problems you talk about in your review exist in the saw I bought. The fit, finish and build quality are great. The adjusting wheels for raising / lowering the blade and tilting are very smooth and easy to use. The digital read out for the blade angle is dead on accurate. The throat plate doesn't require any tools to remove and it is very easy to level to the table top. Dust collection works very well but that has a lot to do with your dust collection system. I use a Harvey Gyro Air G700 Dust Processor. This is a very solid saw at a much better price point. The only advantage I see in the SawStop is the safety feature.
Sounds like they fixed my issues. That’s great to hear. I noticed some of these issues being fixed on later models.
You’re absolutely right on the safety issue.
I upgraded my dust collector to the Oneida Super Cell. It works great, and the dust collection is better, but I think my older model has older engineering.
I’m really glad you got a good saw and you like it. It makes all the difference.
Woodworking is a great hobby, and even greater when your equipment works well. Enjoy and stay safe, and thanks for informing others on your experience.
David, which Extreme did you buy? I've got a 0605X1 (5hp 12" 220v) in the basket right now but this whole discussion has me leaning SS. I've been using my Ryobi 3010 for 25 years and am only buying one more saw...
Had a Jet for twenty-five years, which was an excellent saw. Built a giant legacy on that saw and retired early. Now I am going to work a little more for some special clients and have decided on a Knova cabinet saw. They are very good saws, a bit expensive but very nice.
Hmm never heard of Knova..I’m going to check that out. Thanks
Great review, thankyou. I've wanted a Sawstop for years until I recently saw a review of the 4 horse Harvey. I highly recommend looking into one. Very high quality for $2000.00 less than a comparable Sawstop with only a 3 horse motor. It also comes standard with what many call the best miter gauge on on the market. Just my 2 cents. Goodluck with your next one!
Just took a peek at that saw. Looks nice! Thanks for the tip..I’m going to seriously look at their line.
Thought about it too, but the wait time for delivery was outrageous.. I don't suppose it's gotten much better over the past year?
I've got one of those on order, should be here in March. I think the dovetail trunnion is the biggest selling point for me that should provide significant stability and accuracy. Next is the 4 horse motor. And you know, if you actually use the safety guards etc your chances of injury are much lower for any saw. The automatic features of the Sawstop are nothing to sneeze at but $$$
I am so glad I got a SawStop. I just love it, and until you get one that negative tone in your voice is not going to go away.
You have to be happy or you are not going to be making anything.
I think you’re right. Just replying to people reinforces the negatives, and you Saw Stop owners are grinning ear to ear...lol
And you’re exactly right I’m not making things as much because of the hassles. It’s less enjoyable.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 same here!!!
Agreed. Might as well bite the bullet. I’ve had mine for 5 years now. And have not had a single issue I don’t ever have to think about it at all. Once I dialed it in during instal it’s been dead accurate since with zero adjustments. Mine scratches easy tho just FYI. But I don’t mind scratches.
It don't take much to mess up. I had dropped my table saw fence in the floor once. It was on a shopsmith 510 taken off and set on the end table but not locked on it. Well I nocked it off when using the cross cut sled. Any way I wet back to ripping and placed the fence on the table, but only now the fence as miss aligned and it was tapered in to the blade as I pushed my board through. I was cutting a board about 8 to 10 inches long 5 inches wide. I was not using a push stick. ( I know bad Idea) I had done this 1000 times before with no issue. As my little short board passed though the back of the blade it was rejected. My ring finger and pinky was wrapped around the fence as I was taught. This saved my hand from getting into a blade but my thumb was pushing it through and the kick back Jammed the board into my thumb bending it backwards as the corner of the board took a chunk of skin 1/4 in deep down the side of my thumb. It was my bowling thumb too and even after healed it was a lot bigger around than ever before and still is way bigger than my left hand. I had to re-drill my bowling balls to fit my thumb. LOl. It still bothers me and is full of arthritis. I can't Afford a sawstop and even if I could I do not have the space. I am in a 1 car garage. I actually love my Shopsmith.
Sorry to hear about your mishap. Just goes to show.. it can happen to anybody, even the most experienced.
I had a shopsmith when I got started. Wasn’t a bad machine, but changing stations got old, and I moved out of it after several years.
Did a lot of work on that thing, and the thing I miss about it was being able to horizontally drill on it.
Stay safe, and enjoy the hobby
Honestly I dont think the saws quality is the problem, rather its your unreasonable expectations for what was at the time the cheapest 3hp cabinet saw on the market. It always amazes me how people expect far more out of a product than the money they can afford to spend will get them. I actually had 2 of these saws in my shop. One was setup solely for cutting dados as being a custom cabinet maker, I cut a lot of dados. I replaced them both for a couple of Harvey cabinet saws not to long ago. So I will say the fences that come with these saws are garbage. They just arent flat and there really isnt a viable way to flatten them as the warping is in the steel. So I just replaced them both with the Very Super Cool Tools extruded Aluminum fence. The extension table is also no good, but they can be easily made with some 3/4 MDF. If I remember correctly, at the time when I bought the two saws they were $1150 each. Cheapest 3hp cabinet saw on the market, so shortcomings were to be expected. Replacing the fence and the extension table still made the saws very much worth it, as the typical fine tuning of the saws is the only other thing I had to do them. SawStop Saws are not with out their shortcomings, but the fact that they cost 3 times more than these, those shortcomings would really piss me off. These were great saws for the money and they performed just as well as the Powermatic saw I had before these. You are just the type that will spend 100 bucks on a product and fully expect it to be the same quality as the 1000 dollar product. Its just unreasonable buddy. You need to check your expectations.
Thank you for your thorough review of your Grizzly saw.
I’m a member of a woodworking club where the members purchased a Sawstop for the club shop. This saw is a joy to use. I’m going to save up the money and buy one in a few years. Best of luck with your journey toward owning your Sawstop.
Thank you.. I also used to belong to several different clubs..woodturners, carving, furniture makers.
Great places to meet nice people and learn from others.
I just saw a new Laguna and I liked it as well. I know Laguna makes great products as well.
I have the laguna f3 52 inch. Super great saw, I love it!
@@raid7866able awesome! That the saw I’ve got My heart set on. Hope to get it in the near future
I heard on the laguna the distance from the front of the blade to the front of the table saw is very short; shorter than most cabinet saws.
For Christmas I am getting a new table saw. The two current contenders are the SawStop Contractor's model or the Laguna Fusion 2. Both appear to be excellent table saws.
Consider Harvey Woodworking Tools if you can't afford a Saw Stop.
Regarding the saw dust I have a different brand but had the same issue. But I cut the pink hard insulation board to raise the bottom 2 inches which was just about an 1/8th higher than the bottom of the hose attachment. I hate to say I still get dust in the corners but way less than before. It is a very simple fix.
Great idea..I think I have some in the shop..thanks
The accident you described is the number one reason I do not like the family making random visits while I am cutting on the table saw. When I first began woodworking my back was to the door of the house and the family would come out and tap me while I was making cuts with all my safety gear and equipment running. It scares the hell out of you when you aren't expecting someone to be over your shoulder.
Exactly what happened to me. I try to stress the “don’t interrupt me while on a machine”, but it doesn’t always work unfortunately.
Me too! And when I have my bluetooth headphones one....what do they say in N.Y.....faagitaboutit.
I just ordered the Laguna Fusion F2 1-3/4HP 1PH 110 / 220V Table Saw.
Let me know how you like it. I liked the aluminum fence, and the looks of the saw, but I haven’t been able to physically see one yet, as I’m in a rural area.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 Will do.
Wow, I have the same saw and you pointed out every thing that bothers me too! I should have spend the money on the sawstop as well. My biggest complaint is the fence, drives me nuts that it moves when it is tightened down and that the plastic in the fence has dips and valleys in it. May have to change it out like you did. I've managed to "fix" the poor dust collection design by taping/ plugging all the holes and voids around the cabinet for a better seal. Overall though I think for under $1000 its a pretty solid saw. thanks for the video.
Yeah the fence took a lot of time to get right. That white plastic is just horrible. Like you said it’s not flat and you will never get them flat. That’s why I made the corian ones.
The guard and insert drive me nuts.
The saw is not really useless, it just needs sooo much work to get satisfactory. And satisfactory is a big sacrifice.
I’m going to sell mine and get a SawStop as soon as I save more $$
I bought a General International contractors saw back in 03. I removed the base and built it into a large 7x8 rolling table. I dont have access to the adjusting parts. I have never adjusted it. A couple months ago i decided to see if the blade was actually 90Deg to the table. Uses my digital angle guage and it was only out by .03 degrees. 17 years and still i have never tensioned, adjusted or done anything other than install a new switch. I bought it with the short fence to save myself about $400, went to a steel store and bought the same steel for about $40 and had it powder coated. I can cut 61" wide. I have found that with General International when you unbox it you will swear your head off because their instructions are crap. But as soon as you hit that go button its awesome.
Yes general was sort of a Grizzly back in the day, but they actually were pretty solid. I have three different complete fence kits compliments of Grizzly .. lol but they have some dings and dents. Bad quality control issues.
My saw runs fine, it’s just a pure pain to have to keep tweaking and making adjustments every time you start a project. Sort of takes the wind outta your sails if you know what I mean.
My Grizzly planer is holding up ok. Still needs some tweaking, but it’s close..
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I bought the big thickness planer from General. I could never stop the snipe. They even sent a guy that professionally calibrates industrial machines and he couldn’t get it to stop either so I returned it. It didn’t do any better than my dewalt table top.
When I was setting up my shop two years ago I picked up a delta contractor saw from lowes. I knew that it was a means to an end . I just picked up a Sawstop kinda the last piece to my puzzle. The entire two years I just kept looking at reviews and it always came back to Sawstop. I’m keeping the contractor saw because it’s on point. It’s is actually very accurate. But I have not one regret buying the Sawstop. Have a good one.
I hear nothing but good things from SawStop owners. Rarely do I hear anything bad.
I haven’t done a video lately, but my shop got hit with hurricane Idalia. Ripped the ridge off my shop and dumped water in the top. By the time the eye passed by, it was too late. Water covered every piece of equipment and table tops were rusting. My wife and I used towels and rags to wipe off the water, and I grabbed a bucket of wheel bearing grease and slapped it on every table top I have.
Now just waiting on the insurance adjuster.
Lesson learned here is: don’t set up your shop with your equipment down the middle. Keep all major equipment off of center…
I’m praying for you and your family. I hope that everything comes out OK.
Thank you. Prayers are the best gift
My mother use to say, It only cost a nickel more to go 1st class.
Exactly...thanks
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 would you by any chance live in the Tupelo Ms. area?
I would strongly suggest selling the saw. Buy you a saw that won't make you irritated every single time you deal with it.
I believe everyone is going to find positives and negatives. There is no such thing as the perfect table saw or power tool. Reviews can be biased. The gentleman in this video gave an honest and complete review showing how things work or put together. I believe "sawstop" offers a kind of peace to the user. The user could develop bad habits and trust issues. While Sawstop has been promoting it's saw's capabilities especially when someone touches the saw the blade is immediately stopped. I haven't looked at other positive or negative videos as of yet. Sawstop is pretty expensive but I do not feel ripped off that i bought this exact saw. It meets my requirements. If there is a big negative about the saw, I will tackle it then. I appreciate the author's remarks on this video.
Thank you for being honest. While it seems very negative, it was an honest engineering review.
Their equipment serves a market point well, and newer models may be better.
I still use the saw and make furniture. It just needs a lot of TLC.. but it works.
I was REALLY close to getting a Grizzly 1023 or 0941. But after watching this video, I think i'm deciding to get a Saw Stop. You owe me $1500!!! LOL
Lol
Checks in the mail :)
Screw saw stop. Overpriced crap
@@johnpietros9439 Overpriced, maybe. But "crap?" It's the top of the line table saw. It's not crap. It is expensive. But what price do you put on your finger(s)? If you have to go to the emergency room and/or have surgery, that's going to cost more than the saw does. It's just an insurance policy. There in case you need it. And hope that you never do.
It’s crap. Brain washed sheep.
@@johnpietros9439 Do you have any examples of why you think it's crap? Curious to know what issues you've experienced or if you have a detailed video that describes the problem(s).
Yeah, I've been there. Sadly no American made products anymore. But if you are forced to pay for quality Taiwanese products, Sawstop is the best
Yes I really get upset that we don’t make anything here any more. I use a lot of tools that have been passed down for generations, and you can definitely tell the difference in the quality of a good American made product vs new Chinese garbage..
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I've got 2 delta bandsaws, and 2 drill presses (1 each for metalworking and woodworking) all older than myself, with made in USA/America stickers/stamps. Although missing convenience of speed control, or some safety features, I know they'll probably last for decades more. However, having the safety features/ tech of sawstop retro-fitted to an older cast-iron USA made TS top, would be the ultimate upgrade... which sadly will never happen. And we're forced to buy overseas products w/ varying price points.
So, eventually so much stuff will be made overseas, raising their minimum wage, and causing the cost of transit to America overcome the "manufacturer" 's profit margins. They'll start building again in America, but by then, the USA unfortunately won't be the #1 consumer of goods...
Sorry, I think I started ranting... but how I wish we kept manufacturing in the USA and kept the quality and customer service high...
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I thought the Powermatic is made in USA?
Isn't Powermatic made in USA?
@@KWise-sr4ml They manufactured in TN, but after 2010, I haven't seen a single product from powermatic that says "Made in USA". The same company that owns Jet (possibly supplies Grizzly w/ their parts), owns Powermatic- JPW Industries Inc. also owns Wilton, Baleigh Industrial tools, and if you're into metal working, they also own Edwards Manufacturing. I think only Baleigh and Edwards are made completely in the USA. Maybe Powermatic makes parts and accessories in their TN location. If you see something made here w/ a manufacturer date after 2010, do let me know...
I bought a SawStop about 18 months ago and have loved it. The quality is outstanding as is the dust collection, and of course, the safety. I recommend them.
Thanks for responding. Almost all Saw Stop owners are responding just as you have.
SawStop. Made in America.
Grizzly. Made in China.
Nuff Said.
I’m just a weekend woodworker. Been using a Delta cabinet saw for twenty five years. Pick up my 3 hp SawStop next Saturday. It was north of 4000 dollars here in Canada. But you can’t put a price on safety or quality. Great upload Tupelo.
Best of luck on your new saw. Let me know what you think of it. My delta saw was a workhorse. Safety is key in enjoying a lifelong hobby like woodworking.
A saw stop wouldn’t have saved you from that accident.
He didn't say it would he only commented that safety has been a priority
It’s hard to go to one job every once in a while that gives you heartburn.
But to go to your own work everyday...
I've made this mistake a few times along the way... Now I take all of my profits, when needed, and turn them back into the shop to upgrade my equipment. My grandfather told me a long time ago, and I'll never forget it,
"Cry once when you buy it, or cry every time you use it" your choice. Rich~
I don't care which brand of saw you use, even Saw Stop, a kickback will not occur as you described when you use the riving knife. It prevents the work from coming away from the fence at the rear and rising up and over the blade to return back at you. It's just that simple.
Yes agreed. My saw did not have a riving knife. Accidents on SawStop saws save digits…it’s that simple as well.
Thank you god bless you in the name of Jesus Christ 🙏✝️amen✝️🙏
Let me say first , Grizzly makes fine machinery for the money. 2nd, I have 8 pieces of Grizzly machinery in my shop and use them for what they were made for. 3rd, I have had kickback before when a piece of plywood went into my gut, and it hurt. That saw I had DID NOT HAVE A RIFING KNIFE, so that is why I got hurt, it was an old table saw. After that happened I purchase a new Grizzly table saw with a RIFING KNIFE so that will not happen again . As for the blade guard I do not use them , they are junk and get in the way of cutting material. If you would have had a rifing knife on your table saw I don't see you getting hurt or that probably wouldn't have happened . True grizzly has issues with their machinery but that is why its cheaper and made in china. I do agree with you on the Grizzly dust collection on their saws, VERY POOR, my saw has 2 areas that suck dust and neither of them work good. They need to make the inside bottom of saws slope at a angle to the dust port, and improve air intake around the blade height adjustment handle to limit air sucking in that area. I have tried to block it but to no success. I keep my rifing knife on my saw at all times. In closing go get the Saw Stop you want , you'll be a lot happier ! Oh I almost forgot, get rid of that old design rip fence and buy a INCRA fence, they are Fantastic. Best fence I have ever owned, worth every penny, you'll Love it !
Yes my old Delta UniSaw had no riving knife. That’s why it bound and pinched the blade.
It was my fault. The dust collection is exactly as you said. I too have hvac taped every seam and crack, and I do believe their newer saws may have improved.
I just did a fence mod that I will video that helps the parallax issue. I offered SawStop to work with me on a new saw and I would have a giveaway for mine, but nothing as of yet.
Thanks for the honest response..
Sorry for your bad experience. I had a grizzly 5hp with the router table attached. Never had a single complaint about that saw. It did what it was supposed to and held its accuracy setting dead on. I guess everyone has different experiences
Yes I really think it’s just a quality control issue on their end, along with some bad design. My other tools from them work fine after some TLC
Right on, quality first. I love my 5hp PM 2000. Truly the trunions are heaver and impressive on the saw stop. I was viewing one for $5000.00, truly beautiful and ridged!! But they are heavy enough even on my unisaw. I don't like the blade eating cartridge. The cost of both is(blade and cartridge) is outrageous! They need to have/invent a computerized brake,, then I would buy Done! I have Done wood working my whole life professionally....still can count to ten.....but to each his own.
Bought mine at an auction 2008 almost new.....$1200.00.......what a blessing!!
just jim
Wow I’m going to go to some auctions..lol. If I could find a nice used Powermatic I’d jump on it too.
Nice used machinery is really hard to find...heck I’d buy my old Unisaw back if it were for sale!
Thanks for the reply
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 unisaws are everywhere, cabinet makers die....typically the relatives don't know anything about the countless details in the shop. They want to sell it all to one person, not painfully slow coupled with endless discussions about something they know nothing about!
Even when the shop owner wants to retire...they can hardly sell there business "tools for 10 cents on the dollar. The building and property is where marketable value is. Also some of the best pieces maybe 3 phase....nobody can run it without a phase converter....still a constant vigle of Craigslist, equipment dealers, pawn shops for small tools. Ask the equipment dealers if they know any cabinet shops about to retire or on the edge for what ever reason....I buy new only when the job forces me into it....
Buy the way I am selling some tools ...I am in south central Oregon...3hp Power Matic 66. Fence cuts 50" to the right of the blade...and other things
So I have had a SawStop for 8 years, after owning others for 30 years. I have had to replace one cartridge because I forgot to override the brake when cutting a wet cedar picket. I have worn through more blades than the SS brakes have eaten. FWIW the SS brake and electronics is computerized. You have to boot up the saw before use.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 I have always thought the PM 2000 to be bulletproof but there is a recent YOUTube video where a "new" PM 2000 had a shocking amount of problems. It had so many that PM replaced the saw after the original burned up a motor, and two magnetic switches. And a few other problems. But anything can happen with any brand. But no saw will prevent a major injury like a SawStop.
I've come close to buying a Grizzly table saw so many times thinking maybe I'll get lucky and not get one of their lemons. The problem is that there are just too many Grizzly lemons. The risks are simply too high, and like a casino the house always wins. Thanks for posting this video! It cured me of my irrational temptations to gamble with quality. Spend the money because the costs of subpar equipment are far more expensive.
Thanks..you’re spot on. That’s what makes Grizzly a “risk”. Get a lemon and you get to work with their customer service, wait on parts, and then fix it.
Their customer service I have to say was really great. It’s just the quality control of units and parts that makes it a gamble.
I’d rather be woodworking than constantly working on the machinery…
Thanks for the rational comment.. best of luck on your selection.
I see the reason for safety consciousness but by using other tools and jigs you can work just as safe at a much more budget minded cost. I cut up plywood with a track saw and use the table saw to cut smaller more manageable pieces with crosscut sled for added safety.
When the patent runs out on the saw stop and there are many competitors making the saws. Saw stop will most likely drop the price.
I have been wood working in my family shop since i was about 10 years old and nobody in my family lost any digits, but I see the safety advantage and If i was able to afford the new saw I would consider that technology, but as things stand now I will keep using the old delta.
I too have recently bought a track saw (Makita corded version), and I absolutely love it. Saw Stop is priced very high, but it’s made very well. My old Delta Unisaw was a tank, and I’d take it back in a minute if I could. I haven’t been able to afford to buy it as well. Stay safe and thanks for contributing.
Hope you see these comments. As far as the cursor on the fence, take off the plastic, scribe another line in the plastic (on the opposite side as the factory scribed line) and color it in with ink. This should get rid of the problem that you are having with lining up the cursor and the measuring tape. As far as the cabinet dust collection, try adding a slanted false bottom (1/4 plywood) (might/might not help). Get in touch with LeeWay tools. He makes a blade guard w/dust collection. I've been using his Shark Guard on my Jet table saw for a couple of years that is the best I've ever used. Not cheap but very well made and thought out.
Regarding the softness of the metal this is has been a common problem with all of the Grizzly tools that I've had and ain't got no more. I guess it's one of the ways they cut costs, (that and QC). I guess in that respect you' screwed.
I will try that cursor trick. Sad it’s not magnified like the competition.
I’ll look into the shark guard as well..
Thanks
As I've said elsewhere, the modifications should not be necessary at that price. It's bad design. You can have good design and bad quality control for low price. For non-dangerous occasional use tools, that may be ok. This is bad at both.
If the accident your describing was a kickback then SawStop tech will not protect you. The antkickback fingers on a blade guard might if they are built strong enough. With 5 horse motor antikickback fingers won't even save you. I've been using a cabinet type table saw for 40+ years now and have always used the rule of never push wood through the saw or clear wood from behind the blade with your fingers and always keep several push sticks on the saw top. Besides there are other machines in a wood shop as dangerous as a table saw and all with no blade stop tech.
Might have been said but Sawstop would NOT have prevented the accident described at the start. I do think it’s a relatively high quality saw compared to anything made by Grizzly
Yes exactly
When I was getting more serious about woodworking, I bought the G0771Z and was almost immediately frustrated with it, but it was the most I could afford. The gripes I have with mine aren’t exactly the same as yours, but they’re close:
The riving knife on mine is almost impossible to remove. I almost needed stitches once because I slipped while removing it.
The blade elevating turn wheel lock broke off, and it using a wing nut to keep the wheel on my machine.
The rear panel wasn’t machined well, and the screws stripped out the holes, so I just leave it off the saw.
My saw came with a cheaper ex-al fence that “works” but moves while clamping it down, so I use a tape measure every time I want to make a cut.
The issue you have with your belt tensioner is one I don’t have oddly enough. It’s pretty easy to access the bolt on mine, but your other issues with the tables not fitting well and your anti-kickback cauls scratching the surface were all issues I see with my saw.
It was all I could afford at the time, but I know i’ll be replacing it sooner or later.
Thanks for your video!
Thank you for being honest about your experience with Grizzly as well. It’s all about information.
I think people who own Harvey says the quality is better than SawStop, but obviously it doesn't have the finger detection technology lol.
I’m hearing the exact same thing. I wish I had a Harvey distributer so I could demo their line and report my experience.
That dust heap is made worse by the height from base to hole. It means the vortices of air are impacting the dust into a cake of resin rich softwood until you get the current smooth path to the hole.
If you're stuck with the machine, make a filling of wood or polystyrene or other shapeable material (preferably flame resistant) to replicate the cake that you have.
The present box might let more dust out with a low air speed, high air volume extractor.
But, best get rid. I've had two dangerously faulty sliding bevel mitre saws. Suppliers took them back and refunded immediately. Both budget pro rather than quality DiY.
For occasional use, get quality DiY, otherwise go well reviewed pro and try before buy if possible - unless it's not potentially dangerous. Thanks for a very helpful video.
YW and thanks for putting some quality ideas for me and others.
Glad to hear you're okay. My two cents on safety. If ever you have to take your eyes off when using any tools first you power off the tool put it down if portable before you do any thing else. I apply this to any thing I do.
Ever since that day, I hit the stop button instantly..a great shop safety tip that everyone should do.
I just sold that same saw, My 4hp Harvey will be here in 1 week! Harvey is a great saw . Hope you find a saw you like
I would really like to demo a Harvey. I hear great things about them. Let me know how you like it.
So Sorry about the issues you've run into! Thank you for going through your experiences.
Thanks..just learning experiences in life. Woodworking wouldn’t be as enjoyable without them.
Question - regarding the fence position indicator and its lack of magnification - is the FENCE moving, or are you experiencing parallax error (the indicator line seeming to shift based on the side-to-side angle at which you view it)? Those are two very different things; if the fence is stable and unmoving, parallax can be reduced (or almost eliminated) in several ways. Old-style voltmeters addressed the problem by having a mirrored surface on the meter scale. One simply lined up the pointer (or in this case, the indicator line) with its own reflection. That's not a practical solution in this case, but there are other things that can be done - bringing the actual indicator line as close as possible to the tape will greatly reduce parallax (perhaps mounting the indicator plexi with the etched line down?). Also, viewing with your dominant eye only when setting will go a long way in getting better accuracy (especially if, like me, you have problems with your eyesight, such as astigmatism).
The dust in the cabinet is definitely a problem... I'd fabricate some angled ramps from plywood to direct the dust to the collector hose.
As for the belt tensioning nut - have you tried a crow's foot wrench on your ratchet extension?
I do agree that Sawstop makes an exceptional (and safe) saw, but it's out of the price range for most of us. Those who say, "save up and wait" must have a trust fund, because every time I try that, life happens and the money has to be re-allocated. Good luck.
Yeah..lol my saving has the same issue. I saved and then materials went through the roof, it’s material =$$
As for the fence. The original fence faces were sooo out of parallel that it wasn’t funny. Fixed that by making my own out of leftover corian.
It’s the viewfinder..it’s just not magnified. It’s flat plexiglass viewers. Not magnified like most others. I just deal with it until I move up to a new saw. Just crazy not to have a decent viewfinder.
I bought the Grizzly 1023. The dust collection setup is much better than shown here. Sloped bottom to the vacuum fitting, also shield around the blade with an internal connection to the main vacuum inlet. Seems to work well. My fence is also different than the one shown here, but still not as good as my old Biesemeyer.
Sadly, your comments on the side extension table are true for the 1023 as well. It's junk made from paper mache. had to rebuild the whole thing.
I also had even worse problems with the blade guard. On the 1023 they put in a plastic insert on the saw table for those kickback blades to run on. The blades ate that up in about a day. I manufactured an aluminum insert to replace the plastic and they gouged that up. Took a file to the teeth to dull them a little and they still jammed into the insert. Now I just leave the blade guard off.
I am a hobbyist so spending the extra money is hard to justify, but if I was doing it again..............
Im hearing just about the same comments from most woodworkers. Unfortunately if we want to save $$ then we have to deal with these flaws.
Just sad that the safety items aren’t thought out...
I just bought a new 3 HP SawStop from Grizzly of all places. They were the only vendor that I could find that could get it to me before summer. I got the industrial mobile base, floating overarm dust collection and outfeed table with it. Can't wait to get it put together and start cutting wood. It will be a huge upgrade from my Shopsmith Mark V.
I hope you get your SawStop soon!
Thank you..
I started with a shop smith first. I saw Grizzly actually sold Saw Stop too at the time I purchased my saw. Their salesman pointed to their saw over spending the extra $$
I purchased three machines from them. My table saw, planer, and shaper..
The planer is the best. The other two were substandard to say the least.
Best of luck on your new saw.
Happy Easter
These days if you want to have a fair and equal shot at a large customer base you have to offer what most want, and offer the SawStop. ;~)
You remind me of myself. I let price point influence my initial decision about getting what I really should get, then end up taking a loss when I bite the bullet and upgrade. I’ve done this with tools, cars, clothes, etc. I very nearly did the same thing when my Craftsman motor gave out, but fortunately bought the 3 HP SawStop and couldn’t be happier. Aside from the safety feature, it is just an excellent saw in every single category. My advice to you is sell the GO 690 and order the 3HP SawStop. You don’t need the 5HP so save the money and get the sliding attachment instead. You can justify it from the standpoint of safety. Plastic surgeons will tell you that table saw accidents are the most common injuries they deal with. I’m sorry for your frustration but at least you still have all your digits. Get the SawStop before something bad happens. Looking forward to your review of the best table saw available.
Exactly..do you have the sliding table? I was considering that or a trac saw for ripping full 4x8 sheets down. Torn rotator has stopped me from toting them on the saw.
If you do have the sliding table..do you like it?
The safety aspect is a definite selling point. I worked in my younger days part time in a cabinet shop during layoffs.
The 30 year plus veteran carpenter cut off four tips of his fingers the week after I went back to work.
Accidents aren’t planned..they happen to the best of us.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785
I do not have the sliding table but I do have the torn rotator. I do very little with sheet goods but if I did, the slider would definitely be an add on. I’m actually more interested in the router table accessory because my old Rockler/Jessem rig has seen better days.
You can buy for sale signs at the Dollar store!
I have 10in jet cabinet saw I bought in 1997 and works amazing
As soon as I save the $$ I’m putting this one on the market..
I think back in the 90’s Delta and Jet were major competitors. I still have my jointer, and bandsaw from back then and they are still great.
Happy Easter
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 happy Easter to you as well!
If I was buying a table saw I would buy Saw Stop as well!
Then a Jet or Powermatic!
Good luck!
Why would you complain about a crap saw? I think your better off looking at a quality one instead. SawStop isn't the best saw either.. all they did was setup a conduction test to stop the saw.. that's not really that amazing.
It’s only amazing when you have an accident. Everyone pays car insurance.. you never need it till…ooops
lol
5 years ago I purchased my second used Jet cabinet saw. Overall it's an excellent performing machine but that's because the first thing I did was to install a Biesemeyer fence. Second I made zero clearance blade inserts. Both big improvements. Mine does not have a riving knife. I get by with a splitter. The dust collection sadly, is very similar to yours. No matter what I do, I can't get the saw dust to collect very well. I just have to deal with cleaning out the saw after every project. I may purchase a better saw someday but for now, it will do.
That’s the fence I had on my old saw, and absolutely loved it!! Going from that to this is just stepping backwards.
I’m dealing with the dust issue just as you are. I’m saving as we speak.. ty for your insight
If I had money for a SawStop I would spend it on better shop lighting, Shelix heads for my planer and jointer and a Swedish workbench and maybe a shaper that has a router bit collet.
I mean SawStop is ingenious. But so pricy. And it only eliminates one danger.
And that is after my son-in-law split his middle finger right up to the second knuckle. Split it right down the center. Like he’d laid it out with a blueprint.
The guy that owned the cabinet shop was scared he would get sued. He just paid the hospital bill. And that was that. And my son-in-law has a stiff middle finger.
I’ll bet his boss wishes he’d bought a SawStop!
Heck! I have a scar on my right index finger from a table saw.
Still not convinced. That is a lot of money.
Lighting is a biggie for sure. I upgraded my lighting several years ago, added a shelix to my Jet jointer, and bought the Grizzly shaper and added the router collet.
Love those Swedish workbenches, but don’t have one.
I had said Saw Stop for quality build and safety, but it’s definitely big bucks…
I just saw a Harvey table saw video, and for the money, I’d say it’s definitely worth a good look. No safety cartridge, but it looks as though it may serve the niche we are all looking for. Quality build, and nice features, with a great price! I’d have a look if you’re in the market…
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 it sounds like you have your shop together.
No, I’m not shopping. I’m good with my old Grizzly 1023.
I’m just saying I think some of this expensive “top-of-the-line” equipment is over hyped.
I guess I’ll go to woodworking shows and see for myself.
@@davehaggerty3405 wish we had shows close to me. We could look it over. Happy New Year
Most woodworkers would love to have your saw stop winning and get a different saw
Like I keep saying...it’s for sale !! Anyone interested in cutting crooked boards and working on equipment should contact me for a deal..ASAP so I can upgrade.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 Crooked boards my ass. You have to really suck for this to cut crooked. My first saw was a Ryobi... I had to get REAL creative with that thing and still made nice projects with clean lines and tight joints. I still don't have a saw this nice. There's a woman on youtube who does woodworking, forget her name, brunette, cute girl, she's using a dewalt contractor saw and makes great stuff.
@@urwholefamilydied crooked boards? I’m lost.. I don’t make crooked joints. Fine furniture can’t be made on a contractor saw. Sure the project looks great.. that’s why they make wood putty. 1/16” X four sides = 1/4”
I have transitioned from that stage to finer quality woodworking with no putty. It’s just the progression to excellence.
If you’re ok with wood putty, and covering small imperfections .. fine I have entered and won art shows with my woodworking, and I won’t go back.
To each his or her own right? It’s just about enjoying it.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 you have to read the comments thread not to be lost... from you: "Like I keep saying...it’s for sale !! Anyone interested in cutting crooked boards and working on equipment should contact me for a deal..ASAP so I can upgrade."
Then my rebutell was: This thing aint making crooked boards unless you're the worst woodworker ever and have no clue what you're doing. I was working on a Ryobi and getting ok results back in the day.
FWIW, my Sawstop cabinet saw gets extremely gunky on the blade height adjustment. Usually when cutting a lot of pine. Have to clean the mechanism a lot. 5-6 x a year.
Yes I hate working with sappy pine. I make a lot of American Flags and hand carve the stars. All of my equipment gets pitch on it. Smells great but not good on the equipment for sure.
I often wonder of the manufacturers ever try, or test, their products before putting them on the market. This is not just with saws, but so many other things too. The flaws you have pointed out, particularly the dust evacuation system, make me wonder if there are any woodworkers in the engineering department. I know the owner of the company is quite an accomplished guitar maker, so he should know about woodworking machinery, but wonder if he spends too much time "at the desk".
Yes, exactly. This could be a great machine for the price, but the lack of simple engineering concepts and quality control issues makes it a second pick at best.
I have fixed most of the issues from the factory and use this saw daily, but I haven’t fixed the dust collection problems on the motor access door and pick up port as of yet.
Well you convince me to buy saw stop !
Buy the sawstop, I was in the same boat. That grizzly saw vibrates like crazy and I don't like where the blade sits, you definetly need an out feed table because there isn't much room after the blade.. The safety feature on the sawstop is a bonus on top of the fit and finish, cadillac of cabinet saws. I'm glad I sold mine and got the sawstop
Thanks, and I agree on the blade opening and table. I can barely get my hand in the opening to put on the nut. I’ve actually dropped it in the saw cabinet several times and went fishing.
Thanks for the video. You make many interesting points. I got my first cabinet saw a Grizzly G1023L with router extension for my 50th birthday 16 years ago. I see the similar issues, except I got an Incra TS-LS fence about 10 years ago, which I think is a fantastic fence system.
A comment about the dust collecting inside the cabinet, with a 5hp cyclone (Clear-vue) I don't have more than 1/2" of saw dust in the bottom, but even with a 1.5hp dust collector I never had the sort of build up you got.
Overall I love the Grizzly, it is very much like the G0690, but I just haven't had any problems with it.
Now I'm about to get a Saw Stop, the industrial version with most of the bells and whistles, and I plan to locate it back to back with the Grizzly, and put an Incra TS-LS fence to match on the Saw Stop. I'm pretty excited about doing this.
About accidents, 8 years ago I had a similar kick back with a 24" square piece of 3/8" plywood. It hit just below the belt buckle, a lump formed in a few days which an MRI showed was a hematoma (blood clot in tissue, 3" long). That trip to the hospital cost $1600. As someone already noted here, the Saw Stop would not prevent this, but it's still a comment about safety and I will be putting the JessEM Clear Cut table saw guides on the new saw.
You are right on the money. I just passed on a two month old 5hp Saw Stop with sliding table only bc the saw wasn’t taken care of (table and rail rust). Had it been taken care of better, I would have probably bought it. I’m actually still thinking of offering a little less for it..say $5000
The Jessem clear cuts are on my list, even for my Grizzly.
My Grizzly is now tuned in with tons of modifications, and I’m using it daily, but it still not the quality of the SawStop.
I’d be excited too, if I had it on order. Best of luck to you. I think you’ve made great decisions here. Let me know how you like it, and you’ll have to tell me more about your Clear View vac. I’m in the market for a cyclone.
Thank you for your experience
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 The sliding table on the saw stop is nothing like a European full size one, so I have not been too concerned about it? Otherwise I do have an Incra Miter 5000 sled. If the table and rail rust is surface rust only I'd probably be more than happy to pay 50-60% of the normal price. I just cleaned by table saw and 8" jointer with an orbital sander, Scotch-Brite pad and WD-40 (the anti-rust version) and they look great. The odd permanent mars are just "healthy signs of aging".
Otherwise, as for me a new cabinet saw is a one-time life time purchase, anything more than 60% I would rather buy new. It just so happens I'm fortunate to be selling a classic car and all the funds are for the shop. So I might see it differently if funds were are bigger issue, as would normally be the case for me.
I'll add more on the Clear Vue later.
Something that will help with the dust collection and is cheap and transferable is to buy some refrigerator type magnets on Amazon. Put them over the slots for adjustment of the mitre and any other big air holes that you can’t tape over permanently. It will increase the suction a lot.
I’ve covered all of my holes, and even went inside the saw and covered all the seams with AC foil tape. It helps but the shelf is about 4” below the takeoff pipe. Bad design.
I was thinking of moving the shelf up, but truthfully I’m waiting to up to the Saw Stop.
Thank you for your help. Great ideas since I do have fridge magnets and I’m thinking I can find some holes to cover.
Thank you! I was so close to pulling the trigger on a grizzly. I wouldn’t be happy either.
Glad I could help. It’s not impossible to work on, but if you’re going to spend hard earned money I’d invest elsewhere. I’m hearing great things about Harvey, but I can’t get to see one.
Relax, you're lucky to have all that fancy equipment. I am still using my 1957 10" craftsman contractor saw, that was thrown in and out of the back of my truck from job to job. It's been rebuilt a couple of times, put both extensions on the rightside.
I am fortunate. I worked very hard to get what I have. I just should have researched my purchases more.
Happy New Year
I bought a 3 hp, 52” Jet. I wish I would have bought a Powermatic. I know it’s the same company but Powermatic is the higher end. While it is accurate, I had issues with one of the cast iron extension wings. The right side. It is slightly bowed in the middle by a couple mm. They sent out four different tables and everyone had the same issue. They finally just gave me a couple hundred dollars back, which I agreed to being it wasn’t a huge deal.
Powermatic 66 was a favorite of mine. I have old Jet tools that work fine, and served me well, but Powermatic does have better QC and finish.
I have heard some good stuff about the Harvey saws. Thanks for sharing your experience, it is DEFINITELY going to play a role in my decision in the future.
I’ve heard good things about them as well, but I haven’t had the chance to work on one. Thanks for your comment.
Saw Stop is the same off shore manufacturing quality as the Grizzly.
Where are they made?
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 the Google machine says Taiwan
There's plenty of cheap and nasty US, UK, even German manufacturing. Also plenty of top class Chinese, Taiwan, Indonesian manufacturing. They all manufacture to the specification set by their contract. The brands set their standards according to what they think their market will bear.
In UK, there has been a culture of buying cheapest while hoping for the quality of the best. That destroyed our car industry to benefit of Japan and Germany. A simple example was IKEA (yes, they had vastly superior quality for similar price and instant availability) blowing MFI away - and deservedly so.
I dont think it is right that people bash grizzly on quality and compare it to a brand that is twice the cost...something has to give when you pay less for an item...
Buy an Incra fence system. Been building custom kitchens for 15 years. I would never go back to any fence system.
Everybody loves Incra. They make some good equipment. If I could buy a good used Powermatic that’s what I’d put on it.
Its better to save what
You like this is the best ever video !
Thanks…much appreciated.
Sad to see so many corners cut. What dust collector are you using and how far away is it? Idk why any saw only has a 4" port on a cabinet saw... I modified my el cheapo hybrid to have a 6" port connected to my Clearvue and inside my cabinet is spotless. One thing is to make sure you have sufficient openings between the table and cabinet on left side to get a strong cross wind to direct the saw dust towards the chute. Also need to plug all openings on same side as dust chute or it will slow the air stream down you are trying to create.
I’m using a 2hp harbor freight unit from about 12’ away. I’m actually looking at Oneida and Clearvue right now to upgrade.
How do you like your Clearvue?
I only use 4" ports and quick connects connected to a 30' HD flex hose. That hose is connected directly to my 1100 CFM DC. I could not wish for better dust removal. 4 inches is plenty even on my 15" Delta stationary planer and 12" jointer/planer. Having an extravagant fixed DC system with multiple curves and gates all introduces air leaks and suction. I'm not saying this is what you have but the simpler the duct system the better the suction.
@@11211lcb yup 4” is certainly plenty for most applications. Nothing wrong with central systems with blast gates either. Good blast gates don’t really leak and would be less restrictive then 30’ of flex hose.
If you do end up getting the Saw Stop, you should get an extra cartridge when you buy. Prices go up and you need to have the cartridge should there be an accident. If accident happens, it is fast but, it does sacrifice the cartridge.
So far as the dado features. It is downright frustrating to use. The tolerances are so tight it is extremely hard to mount the dadoes. For us, we have another saw, (delta) that has been repurposed for the dado jobs. We use 1/2" ply for cabinet box and dado the face frames. I build drawer boxes and dado for 1/4" bottoms. It only takes about a minute to change the dado over. We love the Saw Stop but the dado is aggravating.
Thanks so much. My old saw was a Delta Unisaw from 1990. It was a great saw.
The safety feature on the SawStop is great. I really appreciate threads up on the extra cartridge.
Thank you
Most pictures I see of the saw show the screw under the plate and used for adjusting height.
Yes there is a screw at each end of the throat plate. The rear screw actually locks the plate so it can’t pop up in the rear while in use. The front screw on this model threads into the table top, and must be removed to swap plates out. I’ve never had this screw on any of my other saws.
The plate has the same four screws for leveling as most others do.
Hope this helps..
Sorry that you got injured while using this saw. I too am facing the same dilemma of saw stop over grizzly due to cost. Love the safety feature but from what I've read that's about all it offers versus some of the other competitors. Anything for me is a major upgrade from using a rigid jobsite saw. I'm starting up a shop and trying to get away from working in the field so much. Thankfully in over 20 years I've never cut my self on any saw or had major kickbacks from material that injured me. 🙏
I still use my Grizzly, but if you are going to start up a shop. I’m suggesting you buy a better table saw. Delta, Jet, Powermatic ..actually Powermatic is a great choice. There’s also Laguna, but I don’t know enough about their table saw to rate it.
The table saw is your most used tool in the shop. Spend the most money on that, and buy the planer, and jointer from Grizzly.
I purchased three major tools from them, and each one has had at least one major issue with operating correctly.
I have a Jet bandsaw that is still chugging along after 20 years!! I only replace blades and band saw tires when worn…
Stay safe and good luck on your new shop!!
You should get rid of that kick backing piece of junk and give it to me.
And you can keep the insert screw...
Tried to get SawStop to get me a saw and have me do a side by side comparison , and I was going to give this away free to a subscriber, but they backed away after considering it.
I’ve got this one tuned as best I can. Works fine, just has some bad design flaws that annoys the heck outta me..
I had a grizzly (different model but the blade guard was very similar). It was so loose that it would move from side to side (Slop in the attachment to the top of the splitter) so far that the metal part of the guard hit the blade. After changing my shorts, I found that i was down one blade guard and a nice Amana saw blade. Apparently cutting steel with the blade turned out to be a little hard on the carbide teeth. :)
Oh, forgot to mention I just bought a sawstop.
Lol welcome to our world right?
Thanks for the smiles
I think is a case where you get what you pay for. Most who buy Grizzly products are on a budget and just need something that gets the job done. On the other hand, brands like SS and Powermatic claim to be premium, state of the art products and for the price, they should be.
Exactly. I deserve the lesson.
@@tupelowoodcarver1785 You can probably sell G0690 easily enough. Good luck!