Does Teamwork beat Hierarchy in Marriage? Ephesians 5 in Practice
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- What is the biggest key to a great marriage? Teamwork! Let’s talk about how teamwork is associated with all the good outcomes we want for marriage-better sex; feeling close; resolving conflict-everything! But compementarianism, on the other hand, is associated with all the bad outcomes. Good outcomes and bad outcomes tend to travel together-and complementarianism travels with the bad stuff! Hear about all our new data from our new book The Marriage You Want!
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*THINGS MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST*
Reel from BrandonTalksMarriage: www.instagram....
Our reel on whether women want leaders or someone to take initiative:
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The podcast that reel was based on (Marriage on the Rock):
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The Gospel Coalition reel about doing “risky” things
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The original podcast where Cynthia Westfall appeared
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“The fact that you have to call it leadership or you won’t do it is a sign of your immaturity as a man!” THAT PART!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is such a refreshing podcast after growing up Church of Christ & being on my 3rd marriage to a man who is thankfully on the egal vs comp side.
My husband and I left the SBC because of the teachings that men have authority over women. That teaching along with other garbage being taught was putting me in serious distress.
Where did you land?
@ we haven’t visited any other churches yet. Most of the churches around us are of that mindset.
I left the church of Christ because of hierarchy teachings. My life and faith are so much healthier now!
The restoration of my family (me and my kids) started when we sit every day at the table to eat. We had a funny rule, the one who use the cell will wash the dishes. Sitting down and take time to listen each other will absolutely make a huge difference
Wow! I know Greek, but I have never actually looked at this passage in the Greek yet. I had no idea that the Greek text used a ίνα clause. I knew exactly where she was going the moment she said that. As soon as she said that, my mind immediately went, “Wait, so why wouldn’t that be translated as: ‘so that the wife may respect her husband’ instead of the typical translation?”
Yep! Amazing we didn't know that!
I really appreciated you pointing out how women, by our biology, typically have less control over what happens to them and they really need men to step up. You mention pregnancy and childbirth to start and I can say those experiences really changed the way I saw the world and approached feminism. I didn't like feeling vulnerable, but I just objectively was. My husband and I were not in a good place during my second pregnancy and so I felt even more vulnerable at that point, though thankfully things have gotten a lot better for us the last several years with some major changes for both of us.
And now it's time for the segment "Stats! With Joanna"
23:16 YES. That is how it is presented!
57:00 .... that right there
Your hair has been really 🥰
I’m only about a third of the way through so forgive me if you answer it later…
I totally see how this research is true and even how it has played out in my marriage, but as Christians, what is your view of male headship in marriage and verses that support that idea? Functionally I totally see how teamwork is the way, but if we’re operating from scripture as well as research, how do those to things line up? Does scripture support the idea of teamwork or does it support being equal in value and needs but ultimately falling under a hierarchy by design?
Thank you! I have really enjoyed your work over the past year since finding you! ❤
I highly recommend you read Paul and Gender by Dr. Cynthia Westfall for a biblically faithful discussion on Gender in the early Christian church.
@chelseal654 Thank you for the recommendation! I will check it out. 👍🏽
Hi there! Scripture actually doesn't cal for hierarchy or leadership in marriage. When Paul calls the husband the "head", it isn't about authority. There is a Greek word for head that means authority, but it ISN'T the word that Paul uses. He uses a word that means unity. In English, when we read the Bible, it looks like Paul is calling for authority, but he's not. He's calling for unity and mutuality. And that's also what the data supports! A great website for more is Marg Mowczko: margmowczko.com
They go into depth about this in some of their videos. I can't remember the exact title but own of my favorites is called something along the lines of "are we making a strawman out of complementarianism?"
Would you like me to leave the link or do you think you can find it?
@@SheilaWrayGregoireit’s the “You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means” kind of thing. 😂
Matthew 22:29-30
Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.”
Equality before Christ. Live under that, not the Curse! The churches preaching hierarchy are just now apologizing for preaching slavery! Equality before Christ-even Egyptians will be Christians in the Bible!
Hey Sheila or her team? I think Sheila recently said this stat, and i wondered if you could share the source. I wanted to share it, and make sure it was correctly stated.
1/4 evangelical women are in abusive marriages and dont know that its abusive.
About 1/4 of evangelical women are in abusive marriages, according to the IFS World Family Map 2019. I don't know how many of them know they are being abused, though.
how to deal with a husband who totally and whole heartedly believes in the "man in charge." ?!? 😂😅
Challenge him on the head of household term. Because when it comes down to some being sick and the house halting and becoming filthy/starving??? It's a wife. Making HER the most important one in the family.
If he's that stuck in evangelical male-entitlement mentality, then I don't think you can.
@@Himmiefan no it can be an impossible task, but you can keep pointing out inconsistent things. And for the health of a marriage, you can get a therapist and use boundaries.
My husband told me I have a problem with authority
@@ccarlton4511 ask what he means by that? Personally I had a sister who used Bible verses about "respecting your elders", to try and cower me into obedience to her. That and the word respect.....only I didn't know what it meant! It took years for me to get a small understanding of the definition. The only one I can understand is basic human respect. The idea of respecting an authority isn't something I can understand, though it's said a lot! I'm polite and naturally quiet, but I don't respect authority. .....at least I don't think I do? I only understand basic human respect, which is for everyone.
I think what’s confusing about egalitarianism is that it presupposes that teamwork nullifies the leadership role. All my life, I’ve seen first hand that teams without leaders crumble. Sports teams, business teams, military squadrons, and yes even families. Teamwork doesn’t supersede leadership, it requires leadership and vice versa. A leader is not a tyrant, a leader is a coordinator. A leader builds bridges while a tyrant burns them. A leader values the council of their followers, while a tyrant views them as slaves. A leader shares the power, while a tyrant hogs all the power. Teamwork and leadership are not binary, they go hand in hand.
What complimentarians get wrong is the nature of leadership.
Jesus was not a tyrant, he was a true leader. Did he call his disciples his friends? Yes he did, but the disciples also called him master and submitted to him in respect. He was kind and loving when necessary, and forceful and violent when needed.
If male headship is a bad thing then answer me this: why are women hypergamous? Why do women naturally desire a man who is higher on the social hierarchy than them. Why do women desire men who are taller, more educated, make more money, and have greater social status than them?
Why are most (not all but most) women repulsed by men who can’t financially provide for them?
Why are men homogamous and hypogamous?
If male headship is bad then why do married women take their husband’s last name and not the other way around? Why was Adam created first? Why did Jesus come in the form of a man and not a woman?
Not trying to start an argument, but these are vital questions that need to be answered.
Edit: Sorry for all the typos. Autocorrect sucks.
Again, the data clearly shows that marriages work best without a leader. Marriages work best when people work together and make decisions together, and these are the kinds of marriages women gravitate to.
I really don't need to explain more than that. The data is there. You are repeating tropes that are frequently found in our culture to justify men being in authority over women. But it simply doesn't work. It doesn't.
Our study found that. Gottman found that. Multiple studies have found this, and we just confirmed it. Having an ultimate tie-breaker bears bad fruit. Deciding together and functioning as equals works. I hope one day you understand this.
@@SheilaWrayGregoireI do understand this, but everyone else doesn’t seem to. What I’ve learned about stats and studies is that while they don’t lie they only tell you half the story. I’ve had women (religious and non religious alike) tell me that they desire a man to lead them to my face. How am I supposed to respond to that? I’m not repeating tropes either. Those “tropes” are based on what I’ve seen in real life. Maybe it’s my location. I live in Texas btw.
@@SheilaWrayGregoireAnother thing I forgot to add is that I’m well aware that not everyone fits the mold of gender stereotypes, stereotypes exist for a reason. That reason being is that they’re rooted in truth. They’re not completely true but carry some truth.
@@armandvega2752but what does that mean to them, in practice? At one point I might've used such a sentence. And what it meant to me, was someone seeing me and caring about me. Which, obviously is just an attentive and loving spouse. .....which kinda a neutral concept. And if you don't/didn't ask, what do you mean by that? I don't know if you would know what they meant by that. (And it's kinda a cultural thing to say, when lamenting about wanting a loving husband. Not necessarily anything else.)
@@armandvega2752 Ask them what they mean by "lead", because, as we talked about in the podcast, if they actually describe what they mean, it usually just means noticing or taking initiative and actually participating fully and taking some of the load off of them. They even may want men to handle the details in some areas of their lives so that they don't have to carry absolutely everything and can forget about something. Many women call that "leadership." But it has nothing to do with authority or him making decisions when they disagree. It's just him stepping up to be an equal partner. The problem is that in the church the only word we have for that when a man does it is leadership--even though it's not leadership. That's likely what they mean.
Also, a woman can say she wants a man to actually lead her and it's still bad for her. Many women think they want this kind of relationship, but that doesn't mean it bears good fruit!