I totally agree about the Starks not being great people historically. All we see of the house are what Ned made it into, but even Ned remarks about how peculiar he was compared to his siblings. The Wolf's Blood, which ran strong in Brandon and Lyanna, has probably caused a lot of destruction in generations past.
While im not a book reader I always had the the feeling that after the Wall was built after the Long Night a Stark broke their word on a treaty possibly not keeping humans south of the wall.
Ehhh there are definitely untold secrets in the starks past. They have a very strong connection to the children as well as the others. If the children created the others than the knights king (stark) by nans story. Also it was said Brandon the breaker and the king beyond the wall overthrew the knights king and Brandon struck his name from history and forbid it to be spoken. As for present day house stark that's neds fathers fault he basically started the starks getting involved is southern affairs. He sent ned as a ward of jon arron in the veil that's where he and Robert became friends. Was going to marry Brandon to cat from the river lands and Robert to lyanna and this is where house starks misery begins. Ned continues by foolishly leaving winterfell to ride south gets his head chopped off. Sends the north into war with his young son who's 17 at the time leading the pack. And all of this made the north and stark house weak and the Bolton's and others start scheming like those in the south.
@@davidcousineau2398 the thing with the wall never made sense. So after the first long night the children and bran the builder along with help from the giants built the wall. And none of them realised they where on the wrong side of it? After just suffering one of the worst winters ever and fighting for the dawn they decide to stick on the wrong side? And no one in game of thrones got or gets power without blood and force so that's a given on the starks. And as far as all the revelations on the knight king survey says we got nothing zero zilch!
Yeah but Brandon and Lyanna were setups. LF likely gave the “taken” story to Brandon setting him up to die. And we don’t know Lyanna and Rhaegar’s true story, just the rumored version. But every house has a terrible past.
The Prince that was promised is ice and fie. Stark and Targaryen. The NIghts King was created with obsidian , frozen fire, iced fire. Maybe the Nights King was not just a Stark but a Targaryen as well. Maybe during the Age of Heroes, the precursors of House Stark and Targaryen started the song of ice and fire. Maybe the reason the Houses were placed on different continents and Starks and Targaryens did not marry is because if they did the Night King would come looking for his heir. Maybe the Nights King had to stay in the Lands of Always Winter until a new Nights King was born. He could then come south claim his successor and complete his song.
@@kittykatt7652 because the night king was building his army still, plus he needed Jon as an adult. No point in having a baby Jon snow as the new night king LoL
The Prince that was promised is more then one person. The Prince that was promised = Bran Stark, Jaime Lannister and Jon (Aegon Targaryen). They all three were the prince to become the King but they didn't so it's not one person that was promised. That's true the Night King is both an Stark and an Targaryen.
He startet marching south before Jon and Dany even met, and the new heir is not born yet. Do you think NK is a greenseer and knows what will happen? Would be the only explanation for your theory.
"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is the verbal, mythical remnants of some kind of magical seal, holding the Night's King's wife in the deepest depths of the Winterfell Crypts, and keeping her King at bay. When Winterfell fell, the Night's King was able to sense his wife again, and started south. This just a guess.
Remember Bran is the summer child. The summer only began to end when he was born, hence the NK only started south bringing the cold, once Bran was born.
the stark's have forgotten the meaning of the words, and broken the contract, There must always be a Stark in Winterfell, as per the agreement that the night Queen would be imprisoned under the Crypts by the hot springs to cut down/contain her power, and when there is no Stark's there the NK can come and reclaim her
Great vid as always. Glad your back more regularly lately. Still don’t think you’ll finish that revisited series but you’re vids gives me life at work.
9:11 WOOOWWW Joe! That Neverborn explanation just blew my mind. I always thought of the Neverborn purely when time travel is involved and the chain of events change.
I would love to know this as well. I think she tells the audience that there is WAY more to this story than just crows and were woods, and first men. I think there were a people who remained objective and Nan is a descendant or maybe Nan was just cranky and questions records appropriately.
I’ve always wondered something. In the Bran/Blood Raven scene where they fly far north, Bran sees something “terrible” and his tears burned his face. The crow tells him now he sees why Bran is so important essentially. I always got the feeling there is something worse up in the lands of always winter. Is it possible the Night King needs Jon or Dany because the Night King is actually not the big bad guy? There is something worse up there and the Night King is actually fighting it or keeping it at bay? Edit: Also, the scene in Dragonstone where there are 3 white walker looking guys and one has a facial hair. Where is that guy? I just feel there are hints of something worse or different.
Yeah his coma dream! It’s a very symbolic dream. I’ve been working on it since the beginning of my dream series but it’s so big and symbolic it’s taken me a while to get it finished. I think he saw the Great Other...it’s described as the place we see the Night King turn Craster’s baby in Season 4
@@GrayArea omg Gray please read my comment totally love you and your videos and wrote a crazy long comment before I started watching because as you may remember I've had some theories going on about NK and as I explained thought I'd do a prediction comment of a GreyArea prediction vid just for fun lol anyway love your work girl :) oh and ps NK is half Pre-Stark half Pre-Targeryon and that's why he waited all this time for Jon who is like him. GOT confirmed to me a while back that NK most likely has Targ blood ;)
Jon is his replacement. Just like before when The Builder first beat The Bloody Blade(the nk) and replaced him. A Stark must hold both the NK and King of Winter positions for balance
What if the reason The Others have not killed Jon and Denaerys yet is because they want their unborn child for the ultimate sacrifice? Perhaps the Night King is able to ride dragons because he has Targaryen blood!
Ooooh! Nice! Do you think the might be waiting for Jon and Dany to bump uglies and have a baby. And that baby to become the next Night King? Or Queen? Stark and Targ. Ice and Fire
Maybe he is a Targaryen but you say the Others have not killed Jon and Denaerys yet because they want their unborn child, lets say they dont want the child and actually DO want to kill Jon and Dany, when would they have done this or even had the chance to kill Jon and Dany? you mean when Daenarys comes to rescue Jon on her Dragon and the Night King spears one dragon and then tries to kill the one she is on?!? because it looked a lot to me like the Night King was actually trying to kill her or at least kill her dragons, without those dragons they all are minced meat, then she gets away and if not for Benjin i think they would have got Jon Snow and he would be dead. seems once the night king killed that dragon knowing he would be able to turn it he did in fact try to kill Dany and Jon.
@Billy The only thing the Night King cares about is getting a Dragon and taking out the wall, the prince that was promised is the dragon, she is a Dragon Queen, what does that make her Children if they are males? for 8000 years since they killed his mother and father the Night's King and Queen, he has waited, for Jon and Dany to bring Dragons so he could get one and destroy the wall.
According to GRRM, Jon is a fire wight so it may be the combination of Stark and Targ blood. Danerys, is also half Blackwood which would make her the same as Jon; in the eyes of the NK. Is it possible he wants their offspring? Perhaps their kids can control night and day/summer and winter if the NK can change them.
Agree with Gray. I think what the north has forgotten is the meaning behind the Stark words. Winter is coming for the Prince who was promised. Maybe they thought that since Aegon the Conqueror had basically stopped all kingships except the Targaryen's, there would be no more princes in the Stark line, but since Jon is actually a Targaryen prince, and the night king has to be a green seer he knew that Jon is the prince who was promised. What the plan is for Jon is a mystery
I think, he might be the new NK. His body as a Stark-Targaryen hybrid, may be able to being convert to the new NK body. Maybe the present NK just wants to end his burdain and give it to Jon. OR: Jon really has to defeat him, but will he able to do that only by becoming the second NK. OR: The Children screwed the ritual the first time, because the man had only Stark blood, and not Targ blood, and the ritual will work perfectly only by a half Targ-half Stark. The Children screwed the ritual the first time, ended up creating a mass destructive monster (=NK), but if that ritual works right (in Jon's case), it might be created an undying king of Life? or something like that.
"Winter is coming" is synonymous with "The Night's King is coming." If the NK is a Stark, then who will succeed him? Another Stark, of course. And what's that person called that will succeed a king while the latter is still "alive"? A prince. House Stark promised this prince to the NK, but then they betrayed him by building a wall, which the NK couldn't cross. With the King of Winter (= the NK) safely tucked away they have enjoyed an unsually long summer, but the NK has managed to breach the wall and now winter is coming to take by force what is his.
Jon is getting blue eyes by the end - 100% . Bran will tell him he has to do it and he will go willingly - just like Todrick probably did. Love you guys. Just gotta figure out how the story of the 13th LC fits around this.
If you look at the Night King Sigil carefully it resembles Westros from north to south with a line that appears to be the wall. The line on the Sigil is carefully placed about 3/4 of the way up. Just like the map of Westros. I found it too be interesting.
Fantastic theories as usual! (Thinking about the books, not the show). But I just wanted to thank you for the mental image the thumbnail ("they want what was promised") gave me, of the Others making their way south and confronting the armies of men with, "YOU DIDN'T SAY MAYHAPS!" I'm never getting that mental image out of my head now. :/ (But that line of thinking also led me to think... perhaps the Night's King wasn't a Stark, after all. Old Nan said "mayhaps.")
I'm glad you brought up MS&T I'm almost done with book 2 & I'm constantly finding references to ASOIAF & I'm excited to see you it explore the connections further
Jacaerys velaryon and Cregan stark had a pact where the north supports Rhaenyra and they'll get a targaryen princess to wed... But no princess ever married a stark. Rhaegar and lyanna was close... But not exactly the pact.
YEESSSS Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn! After getting a first infusion of Tolkien as a kid, THAT series was really what brought me full out into the fantasy genre. All that dense juicy prose, gorgeous world building, layers of history, damn right I read that first copy to Death till the pages started escaping on me! I still have that busted taped up brick in a place of honor on the shelf. And I'm sure it's what got me ready for that first taste of ASoIaF. Thank you Lady Gray, your depth and analysis has definitely been getting me through the Long Night 😊
Thoroughly enjoyed these two parts about the Others. Interesting unique take from Joe on the prologue in the first part , i hadn't heard that before and i agree with most of it. I agree that it seemed to show the Others still have some memory of who took them down the first time and a fear of a potential Last Hero 2.0 . Which is why they were wary of Waymar Royce ,thinking he was a Stark , had dragon-steel or light-bringer or some combination of those factors and they were quite happy Waymar had / fit none of that criteria. As for Jon and Bran i am somewhat torn , if the show becomes book canon and GRRM follows suit from the show in the books then i don't really sense any sort of fear from the NK towards Jon. Jon as his successor or taking Jon as a prisoner / host i can see. But personally i feel like Bran with a set of abilities similar to the NK (even with those gifts still in development) and the ability to access the Weirwood network to gain knowledge/insight on how to defeat the NK / WW ; to me seems to be the bigger threat to the NK and the NK's action seem to confirm he feels the same. If we look at the ruthless seek and destroy all out assault on Bran , i think that shows further evidence that the NK thought Bran enough of a threat needing to be eliminated imminently. Compare that to Jon where the NK could have easily ordered more wights and WWs to overwhelm and kill Jon at Hardhome but the NK simply took a curious observant approach. Even the WW that Jon killed at Hh was basically toying with Jon savoring the kill until the VS sword surprise. And during the Wight Hunt - the NK hit a high fast moving target in Viserion with those ice spears , so he could have easily put one or two of those through Jon but again the NK spared him. I do think there is something in Jon as the NK successor or the NK wanting him for some purpose ; but as a threat i would think the NK's actions show Bran is the superior threat who required swift , ruthless action. I do expect a fair amount of differences from the show in the books regarding the Others and in all likelihood it will take a two pronged approach of Bran and Jon together to take down the NK (in both the books and show). Although at this point i am just excited to see how it plays out in the final season of the series this Spring.
I’m convinced and I accept that I may be wrong but I think the NK wants Bran, when ever he has had the opportunity to pursue Jon he hasn’t but at the first opportunity to touch Bran and then pursue him he did and technically he has not stopped pursuing Bran, because he is heading to Winterfell.
Tabita D Placide I think the same either bran or John or maybe both but the nk knows bran is the only man with the knowledge to stop him thru the bloodraven but I have a mad theory that bran is the nk it’s just a feeling tho but we,ll find out soon enuff 👍
Ts0usermax They surrounded them and he sat on his horse and watched him for hours do you really think considering wherever he walks turns to ice he could not have walked across the lake if you wanted to and gotten to Jon? Clearly the only reason he didn’t is because he did not want to just like at Hardhomme if he wanted to reach to Jon to fight he could have really quickly.
@@trinithetribalqueen1376 when the Night King enters 3 eyed ravens tree cave with white walkers who attacks Meera and Bran? it is not the Night King, it is one of the white walkers that entered with the Night King. why? The night king is not pursuing Bran, he is there to kill 3 eyed raven. same reason he doesn't charge down the tunnel and smash the door hodor is holding and chase Bran and Meera and kill them. He doesn't pursue anyone, the Army pursues the individual and the Night King takes care of other business, killing 3 eyed raven, spearing a dragon, raising dead wildlings. sorry to ruin your theory.
Ts0usermax Until you become George R Martin sweetie you have not killed anything for me that’s just what you think until the show ends and we get an exclamation what you think means zero to me LMP so I don’t know who you’re apologizing to this is TH-cam I don’t even know you dude like get a life 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It will never stop pissing me off that we spent all these years theorizing on these really cool plot lines only to have Dumb and Dumber abandon them all in the end so they could hurry up and get to their next project. They should have been run out of Hollywood on a rail for how they ruined the show.
Great video gray really gd collaboration wud love to see u do one with bridge4 s Kevin I think he's on to a lot of what's going on regarding night king, also started reading dragonbone chair!
Both vids were great.Thank you.One thing tho,when the COTF turned the man into the NK,he was tied to a weir wood tree.If you look to the left of picture you can see the face.Really enjoyed these!XO
The Nights Queen is captured in the Crypts of Winterfell and the Night King is on his way to free her, as the humans broke theire oath (what ever that is, releasing her after 8000 years or so), and the Night King, Azor Azai and the 13th Lord Commander are all the same
Surprise! We learned absolutely nothing because the producers are terrible and they don't care about magic or the real story or historical consistency. We need the books. The prequel sounds cool too as long as D&D are not involved.
I've been thinking about this for awhile...that George R. R. Martin has created a really poignant paradox between good and evil, that isn't what people think it is. Let me explain. First you have the "Others" in white, although they seem to be the bad guys. You Jon Snow and folks like the Night Watch in black, although they seem to be the good guys. But what if that's all just a mind f*ck? What if the Others are the heroes? But since the way they're accomplishing their task (whatever it is) is by killing without thought, they seem evil? What if Jon and Dany's actions will create the great evil that the Others are coming down to try and prevent? Basically it's the biggest "do the ends justify the means" question in history. lol Do the actions of the decent ones (Jon and Dany) that inadvertently create the ultimate evil, justify the actions of the evil ones (the Others) who are coming down to stop it?
Gretchen I agree in that we know nothing about the Others. They are beings just like the humans, and look at the mean, horrible things the humans do! If I were an Other I would protect my realm from those barbarous humans, too!
I love your videos! Very insightful and you have the chill vibes. Btw, I'm playing a game on my phone called reigns, the GOT version. In this game, you can play as different characters. Basically you need to keep a good balance between all kinds of stuff. When playing as Danni, there is a scenario when Rhaegal is back and need a rider. For some reason I chose Tyrion. And... it works. That may say something about Tyrion being a secret Targaeryon.
Fantastic talk! I agree with Joe... the NK wants Jon. I also think he doesn’t want to kill him because he has some kind of plans for him.... which I read online at least three years ago. Someone commented that Jon would take his place?? You know how the truth feels when you read it? Well that comment went right through my heart like the spear that took down Viscerion. Ugh because I don’t want that to happen, no way but it might. No please no. Maybe the NK is fire and Ice too and that’s why they want Jon
Love it! 113% been on board the Night King = a Stark theory (which one specifically I’m not sure, but def a Stark) for a while and this just helps to clinch that for me even more. Sooo much really keeps pointing this way, I’d be genuinely surprised if it didn’t turn out to be the case. And I really would love it if we get a nearly full Night King-centric episode this season. Even if it’s mostly free of dialogue (or just captioned ice crackling for that matter lol), I really want to some extended time spent exploring as far north as possible for an episode. Idk how likely it is to happen so late in the game, but I’d really love that chance to understand the machinations of the white walkers, their home, their culture (or whatever we wanna call it lol) and specifically an extensive look at the Night Kings origins, his life and his motivations. Like you said, I fully believe his backstory will end up being a sad one. Even as the big bad of the show; in a universe of SUCH complex characters, we can bet that he’ll likely turn out to be a complex and maybe even empathetic villain on some level, and that would enhance the story much more than him being a default destroyerer of the world type villain. Gods, is it April yet? Wouldn’t make it through the winter without these vids!
John is the Fool, he knows nothing; and the Fool Travels the whole deck just to end up where they started, but facing the other way. This just rings true. The fool triumphant.
Michelle Hill- seems like maybe you also read Tarot. I am considering buying the GoT deck. Do you know if it is good? I will probably buy it regardless since GoT theme, but just wondering how well it actually reads/divines.
And practically this adds up very well with Daenarys House of the undying prophecy "to go south, you must go north" . Now Dany is finished with the north "mission" and can be the dragon she was born to be
if three-eyed raven and night king have same source of power, maybe the night king saw a bit the future, particularly the one who will kill him. so, he did all that was possible to make this moment so late in time. that's why he got oppportunity to destroy the wall to try one possible future where everyone was dead and under his commandment.
I actually think all magic in the story is sourced from the same place. It is very likely George’s version of the Night King is a greenseer and why he was chosen.
I like this idea that it's the potential of the sacrifice that makes them powerful rather then a bloodline. Song of ice and fire as a series takes the stance that "power resides where men believe it does" which flies in the face of any family being special. Extra evidence: when Danny unknowingly sacrifices her son to save Drogo she has a vision of him as a strong and powerful adult before he crumbles away.
What if the prince that was promised was Brandon rivers (Bloodraven) he is kind of ice and fire Targaryen and Blackwood (first men from the north)but didn’t keep his promise and hid with the help of the children of the forest believing it would somehow stop or destroy the knights king ending some kind of cycle only to find out they started a whole new chain of events
I get what you guys are saying, but how do we tie that up with the crypts? Must there always be a stark in winterfell so the Night King can come back and use a stark for his redemption one day? That could make sense I guess. But why then did Bran build the crypts before the castle?
First, I think there is a connection between "king's blood" and the people that taught the Targaryens to control the dragons. I think Bran is the Night King. Theory: The Nights King was a Bran or Bran traveling back in time. He was married to a queen or princess of the Other's, in order to secure peace. He was probably a bastard of House Stark. I don't believe the Others were always how they are now. I do believe they possessed magic, in particular ice/snow. The Night's King was probably taught to use his full abilities and enhance them throw cannibalism i.e. human sacrifice. He ruled for 13 years before the men found out his secret, over threw him, killed his wife and probably a child. That child was probably intended to mix the blood lines and insure peace. The 3 headed dragon being man, children of the forest, and the other's. The prince that was promised was no more, but because he was a Stark, they didn't kill him, inadvertently turned him into a the Night King. This is where the blood line is important. I believe that the effect of the dragon shards have on you is dependent of the lineage. That's why the prophecy says of fire and ice. Believing that the magic of the children of the forest is directly related to the house of Stark. Seemingly the darker the hair the stronger the Stark genes. It's a possibility that Jon Snow's blood is the only way to lift the curse of the children of the forest. Not before the Night King gets his revenge and eradicate the world of the houses that conspired against him and giving the others what they were promised. There was a illustration released of Bran the Builder, seemingly a cripple and commanding what appeared those that look eerily similar to others "whites", as they build the wall but they had chains around their necks and wrist. I believe John Snow can't be turned because he possesses magic. It has to be his choice. Just like we keep hearing that Dragons are not slaves. The prophecy also says that it must be 3 heads as well. Daenerys, John, and Tyrion! Still 3 Dragons too!
Wow! Just thought of something that could be VERY IMPORTANT! Constantly Jon Snow says something like, "Children should not have to pay for the sins of their father". However, according to your video, your thoughts, and what is discussed, it sounds like somebody with King's Blood may have to be sacrificed and/or used in a ritual. Therefore, this would mean that somebody is paying for the sins of maybe their father or if not their father, then perhaps their forefather or ancestor or something? What do you think @GrayArea GrayArea and @JoeMagician of what I have said? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!! Love your videos.
Varys said when he was cut and the sorcerer burned his parts, the flame was BLUE (like Viserion's flame, like the white walkers eyes) and he heard a voice. Maybe the purpose of that spell was to wake the Night King, or to find out how to wake him. Varys was terrified by the voice, so maybe everything he has done and keeps doing is designed to bring that about or prevent it, following the directions of, or going against, the Voice he heard. It could be that he just doesn't want to die and is manipulating people and events to save himself, or as he may see it, helping the people of the realm. That would explain him being willing to kill Daenerys and why he would not want her to have a child. It could also be why he is so scared of the red priestesses and priests.
That's a great accent??? I didn't even realised she was trying to do a British accent LOL. Great sarcastic recovery though haha Great video, thank you for posting!
I suggest you guys look up the storyline and the ending scene to the pc game diablo. I think that's the direction we are going. Dragon glass in place of the soul stone obviously.
An important theme throughout the story is that there is good and bad in all races and individuals, so judgement is best reserved until full context is considered and even then is entirely subjective.
Nobody has answered why Jon told Berric "you don't understand" when he pointed at the night king and said kill him and they will all die. If they have been resurrected are they still "alive" or dead men walking?
There is another dialogue in the show which kind off points to Jon being the Night King. When Danaerys points out that before starks bent the knee to her ancestors starks were kings and that there has always been peace in Westeros when a stark and Targaryan sat on the opposite ends of the country. A stark in the north and a targareyan on the Iron throne. I dont know how valid this is but i always thought that line stuck out in their conversation.
Just for clarification- did you say that The Wall's Magic keeps dragons from going north of the wall like it keeps the WW from coming south? Because if so, how did Dany get her dragons up there?
Listening to this it made me think of something when u mentioned the starks having the long beards that it may reference the picture in the cave that John showed Dany The long bearded men in the cave may have been starks and thats they were the original white walkers or help to create them. That may be what John meant when he told Beric beyond the wall "you dont understand".
So if the scene of the initial NK sacrifice is supposed to be on the isle of faces before the pact? Wouldn’t this guy have to be one of the First men? Since there were no other people around yet he would have to have been either captured, or given to the children, so they could use him to create an army designed to help win the war against the other first men? Maybe he was captured and tied up by giants for the greenseers to convert? Maybe that’s a part of the pact is that you can’t undo the blood magic only replace it with a new life? I’m wondering if since melesandre also said the prince who was promised was prophesied about 5k years ago she could be 1k off and it’s really just a pact like “okay we will stop fighting but you gotta let our man go after each long winter eventually and promise a new guy.”
Just one question. If The Others want Jon or Bran why wait untill now? It would have been so much easier to take either one of them when they were babies or even as children.
About wether or not Kings blood is special or not. How about when Melisandre used Gendrys blood to birth the shadow demon? That leads me to believe there is something special about kings blood other wise she could’ve used anyone’s blood.
So Jon is tackled by wights and falls through the ice in certain peril. There is no move by the NK or WW to prevent that or to rescue Jon. Twice Jon duels with a WW, HardHome and the Wight Hunt, which are clearly fights to the death. If the NK wants Jon alive, he sure has a strange way of showing it. In the Prologue, the attitude displayed by the WWs is not disappointment that Royce is not Jon i.e. PtwP, but a sudden confidence that if this is the PtwP, then he ain't no big deal. There is absolutely ZERO basis to believe that the NK has been propping Jon up all along. Remember too, Jon is not a Stark bastard. He is a goddamn Targ King. Whatever blood means, this is significant. Bran is the one the NK literally let go, albeit in the La la land of visions. Bran has the powers closer to the NK. Bran's personality is becoming dehumanized without sentimentality. These cannot be ignored or dismissed. These are put out there for a reason.
With the Targaryen connection I think it’s that the dragon magic is the same type of earth magic as children of the forest and thus Dany is needed now for the ritual to transform Jon because there’s no more children. Like if you figure the rank in the NK army is how you are changed, dead no touch Rez makes a regular wight, touch Rez makes you a whitewalker level, so the NK can’t make another NK and be replaced without someone higher in rank to him, a COTF or Dany.
Excellent video! I think you're correct about what the White Walkers want. One person comes to mind who might have an impact on the fate of House Stark: Theon Greyjoy. Theon has been on a redemptive arc; after all, he declared himself the Prince of Winterfell after betraying House Stark, & was believed to have executed the 2 youngest wolves. He also has king's blood, & did claim Winterfell; I wonder if they demand the life of a prince of Winterfell, if Theon would offer himself, as a way to making right the terrible errors he committed against the family who honored him as a royal prisoner, like royal houses did in medieval times.
This would be awesome. If you've seen any leaks from the very legit TH-camr FrikiDoctor (who has been correct on leaks from the past few seasons), it appears Theon may not make it to the end of this story. But! I feel like he may be killed saving his sister.
@@aprilzoegandphoenix6484 His sister was one bad-ass warrior. But, I think the crazy uncle will kill her, like a petulant child pulling the legs off an insect. Although Theon failed his sister during the battle, I don't think he'll be able to save her from their uncle. In that convo w/ Jon, Jon tells him he's both Greyjoy & Stark; I think Theon may soon be telling Jon something similar. Theon feels he has much to atone for; ideally, he would be able to rescue his sister, & somehow balance out the crimes & betrayals he committed against his foster family. If he could save his sister, she would rock being a Greyjoy Queen. Damn, I wish April was here already!!!
But along with John and bran there was also the brendon rivers and the maester at castle black so there was 4 ppl in the north that had kings blood right
Okkaaayyyyyyy. First of all, this video is AMAZING. So much good discussion. Now, I was totally on board with you about Bran being the target UNTIL listening to you guys go back and forth about the significance of King’s blood. I feel like Bran is probably still a target because he has the know how to defeat the night king himself. HOWEVER, the night king could have made things a lot easier for himself by killing Drogon (instead of Viserion) at the lake battle forcing Jon, Dany, and all the others to die right there if he truly just wanted to get to Bran. They wouldn’t have been able to rally troops and prepare for a giant battle that would potentially stop the walkers in their tracks. I think that the Night King has the potential to see the future similar to the blood raven and that he needed Jon and Dany to survive and procreate because their baby is the prince who was promised. The blood of a Targaryen/Stark BABY that he can turn straight into an intelligent white walker seems like a much more enticing reward to me. He knew that the 3 eyed raven was going to die and be transferred to Bran so of course he would try to stop a new three eyed raven from being created but if that was truly the end goal why even give Jon and Dany the chance to get away from him??
We learn about kings blood with Gendry. That he will make kings rise and fall. Which king did he help rise? And how does his blood come into play? Second, did Bran getting touched by the night king break the spell with the wall, as with the werewood protection spell, allowing the night king to travel south as soon as Bran went south?
Like you said in part 1 of this video, the NK always shows up when either Bran or Jon is around, but treats them differently. It seems like he wants to kill Bran, but is just toying with Jon. What if Jon is the "Prince that was promised" and is supposed to become the new NK, but Bran has the ability to stop it and that's why the current NK wants him dead?!?! Just a thought
How it went wrong: when the Children turned that man into the first White Walker he may have had to power to warg. If the obsidian gave him the power of the White Walkers it also allowed him to warg into many beings at once which could explain how the wights came to be. We saw at Hardhomme how the Night King was able to raise all of the dead, he is just warging into their dead bodies at the same time, also while being able to stay in his own body. (So says: cmurray82889 No country for Old Nan )
What if the first Night King got killed by Jon and had no other option because of the Corpse Queen command him to do it. It's Jon himself from the future trying to get revenge on Bran for bannishing him to the North. By bannishing someone you also erase his/her name from all the Books and never mention him in the upcoming books.
Edric Snow has Targeryen Blood, and I think when Melisandre says Fire Magic is depending on Kings Blood, it is actually Targeryen blood that is important to Fire Magic.
The Others want Sansa as their Night’s Queen. That would allow them to have children. Craster has to keep sacrificing his boys because they are accepting them as temporary substitutes. Sansa is the “princess that was promised” and she will need to be killed by John. This is an echo of when Ned had to kill Lady. Also, they want to kill John because he will kill Sansa.
This is an interesting idea. I am sure that they want thier night queen because of the opening scene with the dismembered wildlings, but I think that it is Daenerys that they need. There are far more connections between Daenerys and the night king than there are with Sansa (I can repeat these for you if you are interested). It takes magic to prepare the night queen. I think that it was supposed to be Sansa, but that it is now Daenerys because of some magic that the Starks had done that resulted in them being executed for treason. By this I mean that the next born Targaeryan girl would become the night queen. Craster is also most probably a Stark because of the reverse spelling 'retsarc'.
@@lesliemisaacs Firstly my apologies for the length of this. I first became aware of the connection between the characters when I watched a video by the excellent Talking Thrones a couple of months back. This video brings our attention to Daenserys's vision of the Throne room where it is destroyed and snow is falling. She then sees herself go north of the wall. The sounds in the background during this scene are whitewalker backing sounds. When Bran has the same vision he next sees the night king. Starting from season1 we see the scene where the white walkers have cut up the wildlings. They have fixed a young teenage girl to a tree and dismembered the rest of them. The fact that it is a teenage girl indicates that their message is about someone similar. Daenerys is only 13 in the books. It can only be Daenerys or Sansa if it is a main character. The rest of this scene probably represents that it is a young woman just come of age and the heads on short stakes represent children. We hear old nan talk of an early lord commander of the night's watch that fell in love with a woman that had skin as pale as the moon. Daenerys has a pale complexion and was the moon of Drogo's life. Daenerys is known as stormborn as she was born during the worst storm in memory. At the end of season 6 Jon says the true enemy (night king) does not wait out the storm - he brings the storm. At the start of season 7 Daenerys arrives in Dragonstone and there is a bad storm. Daenerys is th ebreaker of chains and the night king has massive chains in season 7, 'Beyond the Wall'. When Daenerys frees the slaes they rise their hands above their heads shouting Mhysa (mother). This is mirrored by the night king at Hardholm. He raises his hands above his head to raise the dead and make them his 'children'. In the episode 'Beyond the Wall' many people complained that the night king could easily have killed Drogon when Daenerys was riding it. I think he did not want to kill Daenerys and killed Visaeryon instead. In this scene the white walkers and wights could have attacked earlier as we saw a white walker cross frozen lakex with Crasters baby. They waited until Daenerys was near. Daenerys wears clothes that are the night kings colours:- white, grey and blue. Her team have similar collar designs to their clothes as the white walkers. A lot of the time is is not particularly animated and this reflects how the white walkers move and their lack of facial movement.The only characters we have seen that can walk through fire are the white walkers and Daenerys. In the books she dreams that she is having sex with one of th elords of Meereen and his manhood is as cold as ice. Someof thiss may be just coincidence, but it is too much for just that.
I totally agree about the Starks not being great people historically. All we see of the house are what Ned made it into, but even Ned remarks about how peculiar he was compared to his siblings. The Wolf's Blood, which ran strong in Brandon and Lyanna, has probably caused a lot of destruction in generations past.
While im not a book reader I always had the the feeling that after the Wall was built after the Long Night a Stark broke their word on a treaty possibly not keeping humans south of the wall.
Ehhh there are definitely untold secrets in the starks past. They have a very strong connection to the children as well as the others. If the children created the others than the knights king (stark) by nans story. Also it was said Brandon the breaker and the king beyond the wall overthrew the knights king and Brandon struck his name from history and forbid it to be spoken. As for present day house stark that's neds fathers fault he basically started the starks getting involved is southern affairs. He sent ned as a ward of jon arron in the veil that's where he and Robert became friends. Was going to marry Brandon to cat from the river lands and Robert to lyanna and this is where house starks misery begins. Ned continues by foolishly leaving winterfell to ride south gets his head chopped off. Sends the north into war with his young son who's 17 at the time leading the pack. And all of this made the north and stark house weak and the Bolton's and others start scheming like those in the south.
@@davidcousineau2398 the thing with the wall never made sense. So after the first long night the children and bran the builder along with help from the giants built the wall. And none of them realised they where on the wrong side of it? After just suffering one of the worst winters ever and fighting for the dawn they decide to stick on the wrong side? And no one in game of thrones got or gets power without blood and force so that's a given on the starks. And as far as all the revelations on the knight king survey says we got nothing zero zilch!
Yeah but Brandon and Lyanna were setups. LF likely gave the “taken” story to Brandon setting him up to die. And we don’t know Lyanna and Rhaegar’s true story, just the rumored version. But every house has a terrible past.
@@williamwhitfield6225 i love that question. why help with the wall only to be left on the shitty side?
The Prince that was promised is ice and fie. Stark and Targaryen. The NIghts King was created with obsidian , frozen fire, iced fire. Maybe the Nights King was not just a Stark but a Targaryen as well. Maybe during the Age of Heroes, the precursors of House Stark and Targaryen started the song of ice and fire. Maybe the reason the Houses were placed on different continents and Starks and Targaryens did not marry is because if they did the Night King would come looking for his heir. Maybe the Nights King had to stay in the Lands of Always Winter until a new Nights King was born. He could then come south claim his successor and complete his song.
If its Jon they want it seems they would come for him as an infant Why now?
@@kittykatt7652 because the night king was building his army still, plus he needed Jon as an adult. No point in having a baby Jon snow as the new night king LoL
The Prince that was promised is more then one person.
The Prince that was promised = Bran Stark, Jaime Lannister and Jon (Aegon Targaryen).
They all three were the prince to become the King but they didn't so it's not one person that was promised.
That's true the Night King is both an Stark and an Targaryen.
@@Nwakilla187 LoL, you're a funny guy
He startet marching south before Jon and Dany even met, and the new heir is not born yet.
Do you think NK is a greenseer and knows what will happen? Would be the only explanation for your theory.
"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is the verbal, mythical remnants of some kind of magical seal, holding the Night's King's wife in the deepest depths of the Winterfell Crypts, and keeping her King at bay. When Winterfell fell, the Night's King was able to sense his wife again, and started south. This just a guess.
I have thought pretty much this for a while now..
Remember Bran is the summer child. The summer only began to end when he was born, hence the NK only started south bringing the cold, once Bran was born.
the stark's have forgotten the meaning of the words, and broken the contract, There must always be a Stark in Winterfell, as per the agreement that the night Queen would be imprisoned under the Crypts by the hot springs to cut down/contain her power, and when there is no Stark's there the NK can come and reclaim her
Oh crap, they're coming for Sansa.
That’s a solid theory.
Just want to say thank you for getting us through the long night
Great vid as always. Glad your back more regularly lately. Still don’t think you’ll finish that revisited series but you’re vids gives me life at work.
9:11 WOOOWWW Joe! That Neverborn explanation just blew my mind. I always thought of the Neverborn purely when time travel is involved and the chain of events change.
One of the most interesting talks I've heard on TH-cam for a while :)
If old Nan is right about all. What do you think about when she tells Bran dont listen to crows they lie.
Amanda Nely the nights watch are liars then and the story about the night’s king and his bride isn’t as they say
@@KeisingMing i was talking about when Bran tells her about the crow in his dream.
Amanda Nely lol dang
The three eyed raven lied to Bran about the ink being dry.
I would love to know this as well. I think she tells the audience that there is WAY more to this story than just crows and were woods, and first men. I think there were a people who remained objective and Nan is a descendant or maybe Nan was just cranky and questions records appropriately.
I’ve always wondered something. In the Bran/Blood Raven scene where they fly far north, Bran sees something “terrible” and his tears burned his face. The crow tells him now he sees why Bran is so important essentially.
I always got the feeling there is something worse up in the lands of always winter. Is it possible the Night King needs Jon or Dany because the Night King is actually not the big bad guy? There is something worse up there and the Night King is actually fighting it or keeping it at bay?
Edit: Also, the scene in Dragonstone where there are 3 white walker looking guys and one has a facial hair. Where is that guy? I just feel there are hints of something worse or different.
Thats in the books though...and i dont remember this happening in the show! ...
Yeah his coma dream! It’s a very symbolic dream. I’ve been working on it since the beginning of my dream series but it’s so big and symbolic it’s taken me a while to get it finished. I think he saw the Great Other...it’s described as the place we see the Night King turn Craster’s baby in Season 4
@@GrayArea omg Gray please read my comment totally love you and your videos and wrote a crazy long comment before I started watching because as you may remember I've had some theories going on about NK and as I explained thought I'd do a prediction comment of a GreyArea prediction vid just for fun lol anyway love your work girl :) oh and ps NK is half Pre-Stark half Pre-Targeryon and that's why he waited all this time for Jon who is like him. GOT confirmed to me a while back that NK most likely has Targ blood ;)
the white walker Jon kills at hardhome has facial hair
The pictures on the cave walls might be NK predecessors?
Jon is his replacement. Just like before when The Builder first beat The Bloody Blade(the nk) and replaced him. A Stark must hold both the NK and King of Winter positions for balance
Brandon Davis but jons not a legitimate stark
Lol then he isn’t a legitimate targaryean, so what would he ‘legitimately’ be?
What if the reason The Others have not killed Jon and Denaerys yet is because they want their unborn child for the ultimate sacrifice? Perhaps the Night King is able to ride dragons because he has Targaryen blood!
Ooooh! Nice! Do you think the might be waiting for Jon and Dany to bump uglies and have a baby. And that baby to become the next Night King? Or Queen? Stark and Targ. Ice and Fire
Maybe he is a Targaryen but you say the Others have not killed Jon and Denaerys yet because they want their unborn child, lets say they dont want the child and actually DO want to kill Jon and Dany, when would they have done this or even had the chance to kill Jon and Dany?
you mean when Daenarys comes to rescue Jon on her Dragon and the Night King spears one dragon and then tries to kill the one she is on?!?
because it looked a lot to me like the Night King was actually trying to kill her or at least kill her dragons, without those dragons they all are minced meat, then she gets away and if not for Benjin i think they would have got Jon Snow and he would be dead.
seems once the night king killed that dragon knowing he would be able to turn it he did in fact try to kill Dany and Jon.
@Billy The only thing the Night King cares about is getting a Dragon and taking out the wall, the prince that was promised is the dragon, she is a Dragon Queen, what does that make her Children if they are males? for 8000 years since they killed his mother and father the Night's King and Queen, he has waited, for Jon and Dany to bring Dragons so he could get one and destroy the wall.
According to GRRM, Jon is a fire wight so it may be the combination of Stark and Targ blood. Danerys, is also half Blackwood which would make her the same as Jon; in the eyes of the NK. Is it possible he wants their offspring? Perhaps their kids can control night and day/summer and winter if the NK can change them.
House Blackstark is danny one 2 because she was in the fire in the books to hatch the eggs and came back.
Agree with Gray. I think what the north has forgotten is the meaning behind the Stark words. Winter is coming for the Prince who was promised. Maybe they thought that since Aegon the Conqueror had basically stopped all kingships except the Targaryen's, there would be no more princes in the Stark line, but since Jon is actually a Targaryen prince, and the night king has to be a green seer he knew that Jon is the prince who was promised. What the plan is for Jon is a mystery
The VGirl So there must always be a Stark at Winterfell as he was promised.
@@premiumturkish Exactly.
I think, he might be the new NK. His body as a Stark-Targaryen hybrid, may be able to being convert to the new NK body. Maybe the present NK just wants to end his burdain and give it to Jon. OR: Jon really has to defeat him, but will he able to do that only by becoming the second NK. OR: The Children screwed the ritual the first time, because the man had only Stark blood, and not Targ blood, and the ritual will work perfectly only by a half Targ-half Stark. The Children screwed the ritual the first time, ended up creating a mass destructive monster (=NK), but if that ritual works right (in Jon's case), it might be created an undying king of Life? or something like that.
There are many character with "prince that was promised".
Jon, Bran, Jaime, Theon, Gendry all these where promised to become King someday.
"Winter is coming" is synonymous with "The Night's King is coming." If the NK is a Stark, then who will succeed him? Another Stark, of course. And what's that person called that will succeed a king while the latter is still "alive"? A prince. House Stark promised this prince to the NK, but then they betrayed him by building a wall, which the NK couldn't cross. With the King of Winter (= the NK) safely tucked away they have enjoyed an unsually long summer, but the NK has managed to breach the wall and now winter is coming to take by force what is his.
I watch you vids while at work and I see your uploading more....NICE!!!
Btw my comment by no means was a critique of your video...i loved these 2 videos and you always pump out stellar work Gray
Jon is getting blue eyes by the end - 100% . Bran will tell him he has to do it and he will go willingly - just like Todrick probably did. Love you guys. Just gotta figure out how the story of the 13th LC fits around this.
100% huh?
If you look at the Night King Sigil carefully it resembles Westros from north to south with a line that appears to be the wall. The line on the Sigil is carefully placed about 3/4 of the way up. Just like the map of Westros. I found it too be interesting.
I love all your videos, you talk about things I’ve never even thought of before 😊
Fantastic theories as usual! (Thinking about the books, not the show). But I just wanted to thank you for the mental image the thumbnail ("they want what was promised") gave me, of the Others making their way south and confronting the armies of men with, "YOU DIDN'T SAY MAYHAPS!" I'm never getting that mental image out of my head now. :/
(But that line of thinking also led me to think... perhaps the Night's King wasn't a Stark, after all. Old Nan said "mayhaps.")
I'm glad you brought up MS&T I'm almost done with book 2 & I'm constantly finding references to ASOIAF & I'm excited to see you it explore the connections further
If Old Nan is right about everything, then they do live in the eye of a giant and I'm going to f**ckin rage!
Jacaerys velaryon and Cregan stark had a pact where the north supports Rhaenyra and they'll get a targaryen princess to wed... But no princess ever married a stark. Rhaegar and lyanna was close... But not exactly the pact.
was it written in Valyrian?
One of your best! I am going to check Joe out thanks
Man!,you and tha majic man killed it.well worth tha wait love you grey.
YEESSSS Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn! After getting a first infusion of Tolkien as a kid, THAT series was really what brought me full out into the fantasy genre. All that dense juicy prose, gorgeous world building, layers of history, damn right I read that first copy to Death till the pages started escaping on me! I still have that busted taped up brick in a place of honor on the shelf. And I'm sure it's what got me ready for that first taste of ASoIaF. Thank you Lady Gray, your depth and analysis has definitely been getting me through the Long Night 😊
Thoroughly enjoyed these two parts about the Others. Interesting unique take from Joe on the prologue in the first part , i hadn't heard that before and i agree with most of it. I agree that it seemed to show the Others still have some memory of who took them down the first time and a fear of a potential Last Hero 2.0 . Which is why they were wary of Waymar Royce ,thinking he was a Stark , had dragon-steel or light-bringer or some combination of those factors and they were quite happy Waymar had / fit none of that criteria.
As for Jon and Bran i am somewhat torn , if the show becomes book canon and GRRM follows suit from the show in the books then i don't really sense any sort of fear from the NK towards Jon. Jon as his successor or taking Jon as a prisoner / host i can see. But personally i feel like Bran with a set of abilities similar to the NK (even with those gifts still in development) and the ability to access the Weirwood network to gain knowledge/insight on how to defeat the NK / WW ; to me seems to be the bigger threat to the NK and the NK's action seem to confirm he feels the same. If we look at the ruthless seek and destroy all out assault on Bran , i think that shows further evidence that the NK thought Bran enough of a threat needing to be eliminated imminently. Compare that to Jon where the NK could have easily ordered more wights and WWs to overwhelm and kill Jon at Hardhome but the NK simply took a curious observant approach. Even the WW that Jon killed at Hh was basically toying with Jon savoring the kill until the VS sword surprise. And during the Wight Hunt - the NK hit a high fast moving target in Viserion with those ice spears , so he could have easily put one or two of those through Jon but again the NK spared him. I do think there is something in Jon as the NK successor or the NK wanting him for some purpose ; but as a threat i would think the NK's actions show Bran is the superior threat who required swift , ruthless action.
I do expect a fair amount of differences from the show in the books regarding the Others and in all likelihood it will take a two pronged approach of Bran and Jon together to take down the NK (in both the books and show). Although at this point i am just excited to see how it plays out in the final season of the series this Spring.
Trying to keep up! Brain is smoking. Conversation was awesome you two
I’m convinced and I accept that I may be wrong but I think the NK wants Bran, when ever he has had the opportunity to pursue Jon he hasn’t but at the first opportunity to touch Bran and then pursue him he did and technically he has not stopped pursuing Bran, because he is heading to Winterfell.
Tabita D Placide I think the same either bran or John or maybe both but the nk knows bran is the only man with the knowledge to stop him thru the bloodraven but I have a mad theory that bran is the nk it’s just a feeling tho but we,ll find out soon enuff 👍
he doesn't persue Jon? he does surround Jon and Co. with his entire army of dead dudes.
Ts0usermax They surrounded them and he sat on his horse and watched him for hours do you really think considering wherever he walks turns to ice he could not have walked across the lake if you wanted to and gotten to Jon? Clearly the only reason he didn’t is because he did not want to just like at Hardhomme if he wanted to reach to Jon to fight he could have really quickly.
@@trinithetribalqueen1376 when the Night King enters 3 eyed ravens tree cave with white walkers who attacks Meera and Bran?
it is not the Night King, it is one of the white walkers that entered with the Night King.
why?
The night king is not pursuing Bran, he is there to kill 3 eyed raven. same reason he doesn't charge down the tunnel and smash the door hodor is holding and chase Bran and Meera and kill them.
He doesn't pursue anyone, the Army pursues the individual and the Night King takes care of other business, killing 3 eyed raven, spearing a dragon, raising dead wildlings. sorry to ruin your theory.
Ts0usermax Until you become George R Martin sweetie you have not killed anything for me that’s just what you think until the show ends and we get an exclamation what you think means zero to me LMP so I don’t know who you’re apologizing to this is TH-cam I don’t even know you dude like get a life 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It will never stop pissing me off that we spent all these years theorizing on these really cool plot lines only to have Dumb and Dumber abandon them all in the end so they could hurry up and get to their next project. They should have been run out of Hollywood on a rail for how they ruined the show.
Great video gray really gd collaboration wud love to see u do one with bridge4 s Kevin I think he's on to a lot of what's going on regarding night king, also started reading dragonbone chair!
I honestly loved this! You guys are awesome.
Interestingly, in the show as See Alliser is about to hang he tells Jon Snow that he’s about to rest but JS will be fighting their battles forever.
Both vids were great.Thank you.One thing tho,when the COTF turned the man into the NK,he was tied to a weir wood tree.If you look to the left of picture you can see the face.Really enjoyed these!XO
The Nights Queen is captured in the Crypts of Winterfell and the Night King is on his way to free her, as the humans broke theire oath (what ever that is, releasing her after 8000 years or so), and the Night King, Azor Azai and the 13th Lord Commander are all the same
Your accent is great! Never lose it.
Joe Magician’s video A Ranger in the Snow is an amazing work of analysis.
Oh you left us on a cliffhanger on purpose. 😂 I totally thought my TH-cam was acting up.
Surprise! We learned absolutely nothing because the producers are terrible and they don't care about magic or the real story or historical consistency. We need the books. The prequel sounds cool too as long as D&D are not involved.
You guys are so insightful!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I've been thinking about this for awhile...that George R. R. Martin has created a really poignant paradox between good and evil, that isn't what people think it is.
Let me explain.
First you have the "Others" in white, although they seem to be the bad guys. You Jon Snow and folks like the Night Watch in black, although they seem to be the good guys. But what if that's all just a mind f*ck?
What if the Others are the heroes? But since the way they're accomplishing their task (whatever it is) is by killing without thought, they seem evil?
What if Jon and Dany's actions will create the great evil that the Others are coming down to try and prevent?
Basically it's the biggest "do the ends justify the means" question in history. lol
Do the actions of the decent ones (Jon and Dany) that inadvertently create the ultimate evil, justify the actions of the evil ones (the Others) who are coming down to stop it?
Gretchen I agree in that we know nothing about the Others. They are beings just like the humans, and look at the mean, horrible things the humans do! If I were an Other I would protect my realm from those barbarous humans, too!
I agree. I think of this all the time. I hope we get a valid, thorough answer in some way next season. :)
„Everyone is a hero in their own story“ GRRM
Maybe trying to prevent The Drowned God from taking dominion-- the DREAM of Spring (water) turning into the nightmare of spring.
I love your videos! Very insightful and you have the chill vibes. Btw, I'm playing a game on my phone called reigns, the GOT version. In this game, you can play as different characters. Basically you need to keep a good balance between all kinds of stuff. When playing as Danni, there is a scenario when Rhaegal is back and need a rider. For some reason I chose Tyrion. And... it works. That may say something about Tyrion being a secret Targaeryon.
Fantastic talk! I agree with Joe... the NK wants Jon. I also think he doesn’t want to kill him because he has some kind of plans for him.... which I read online at least three years ago. Someone commented that Jon would take his place?? You know how the truth feels when you read it? Well that comment went right through my heart like the spear that took down Viscerion. Ugh because I don’t want that to happen, no way but it might. No please no.
Maybe the NK is fire and Ice too and that’s why they want Jon
You guys went peak nerd half way in - I love it so much
Awesome content. Thanks to you both.
GrayArea, you brighten my day. I love your videos. Thank you! :)
"What do you think we're gonna find out in S8?" Ohh my sweet summer child...
Love it! 113% been on board the Night King = a Stark theory (which one specifically I’m not sure, but def a Stark) for a while and this just helps to clinch that for me even more. Sooo much really keeps pointing this way, I’d be genuinely surprised if it didn’t turn out to be the case. And I really would love it if we get a nearly full Night King-centric episode this season. Even if it’s mostly free of dialogue (or just captioned ice crackling for that matter lol), I really want to some extended time spent exploring as far north as possible for an episode. Idk how likely it is to happen so late in the game, but I’d really love that chance to understand the machinations of the white walkers, their home, their culture (or whatever we wanna call it lol) and specifically an extensive look at the Night Kings origins, his life and his motivations. Like you said, I fully believe his backstory will end up being a sad one. Even as the big bad of the show; in a universe of SUCH complex characters, we can bet that he’ll likely turn out to be a complex and maybe even empathetic villain on some level, and that would enhance the story much more than him being a default destroyerer of the world type villain. Gods, is it April yet? Wouldn’t make it through the winter without these vids!
John is the Fool, he knows nothing; and the Fool Travels the whole deck just to end up where they started, but facing the other way. This just rings true. The fool triumphant.
Michelle Hill- seems like maybe you also read Tarot. I am considering buying the GoT deck. Do you know if it is good? I will probably buy it regardless since GoT theme, but just wondering how well it actually reads/divines.
And practically this adds up very well with Daenarys House of the undying prophecy "to go south, you must go north" . Now Dany is finished with the north "mission" and can be the dragon she was born to be
I honestly love your voice it's just so soothing I would love to work with you and have you do some voice over works for my comic book line expansion
if three-eyed raven and night king have same source of power, maybe the night king saw a bit the future, particularly the one who will kill him. so, he did all that was possible to make this moment so late in time.
that's why he got oppportunity to destroy the wall to try one possible future where everyone was dead and under his commandment.
I actually think all magic in the story is sourced from the same place. It is very likely George’s version of the Night King is a greenseer and why he was chosen.
I like this idea that it's the potential of the sacrifice that makes them powerful rather then a bloodline. Song of ice and fire as a series takes the stance that "power resides where men believe it does" which flies in the face of any family being special. Extra evidence: when Danny unknowingly sacrifices her son to save Drogo she has a vision of him as a strong and powerful adult before he crumbles away.
Mamma’s juice 🥤! Thank you Gray, this was my early name day 🎁
🐦🍰
dam bro thank you! 😘
@@lady_wasser your welcome !😎😉🤟🎉
What if the prince that was promised was Brandon rivers (Bloodraven) he is kind of ice and fire Targaryen and Blackwood (first men from the north)but didn’t keep his promise and hid with the help of the children of the forest believing it would somehow stop or destroy the knights king ending some kind of cycle only to find out they started a whole new chain of events
I get what you guys are saying, but how do we tie that up with the crypts? Must there always be a stark in winterfell so the Night King can come back and use a stark for his redemption one day? That could make sense I guess. But why then did Bran build the crypts before the castle?
First, I think there is a connection between "king's blood" and the people that taught the Targaryens to control the dragons. I think Bran is the Night King. Theory: The Nights King was a Bran or Bran traveling back in time. He was married to a queen or princess of the Other's, in order to secure peace. He was probably a bastard of House Stark. I don't believe the Others were always how they are now. I do believe they possessed magic, in particular ice/snow. The Night's King was probably taught to use his full abilities and enhance them throw cannibalism i.e. human sacrifice. He ruled for 13 years before the men found out his secret, over threw him, killed his wife and probably a child. That child was probably intended to mix the blood lines and insure peace. The 3 headed dragon being man, children of the forest, and the other's. The prince that was promised was no more, but because he was a Stark, they didn't kill him, inadvertently turned him into a the Night King. This is where the blood line is important. I believe that the effect of the dragon shards have on you is dependent of the lineage. That's why the prophecy says of fire and ice. Believing that the magic of the children of the forest is directly related to the house of Stark. Seemingly the darker the hair the stronger the Stark genes. It's a possibility that Jon Snow's blood is the only way to lift the curse of the children of the forest. Not before the Night King gets his revenge and eradicate the world of the houses that conspired against him and giving the others what they were promised. There was a illustration released of Bran the Builder, seemingly a cripple and commanding what appeared those that look eerily similar to others "whites", as they build the wall but they had chains around their necks and wrist. I believe John Snow can't be turned because he possesses magic. It has to be his choice. Just like we keep hearing that Dragons are not slaves. The prophecy also says that it must be 3 heads as well. Daenerys, John, and Tyrion! Still 3 Dragons too!
Wow! Just thought of something that could be VERY IMPORTANT! Constantly Jon Snow says something like, "Children should not have to pay for the sins of their father". However, according to your video, your thoughts, and what is discussed, it sounds like somebody with King's Blood may have to be sacrificed and/or used in a ritual. Therefore, this would mean that somebody is paying for the sins of maybe their father or if not their father, then perhaps their forefather or ancestor or something? What do you think @GrayArea GrayArea and @JoeMagician of what I have said? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!! Love your videos.
If that's true, did the night king drop the spells to allow the dragons to come north?
Varys said when he was cut and the sorcerer burned his parts, the flame was BLUE (like Viserion's flame, like the white walkers eyes) and he heard a voice. Maybe the purpose of that spell was to wake the Night King, or to find out how to wake him. Varys was terrified by the voice, so maybe everything he has done and keeps doing is designed to bring that about or prevent it, following the directions of, or going against, the Voice he heard. It could be that he just doesn't want to die and is manipulating people and events to save himself, or as he may see it, helping the people of the realm. That would explain him being willing to kill Daenerys and why he would not want her to have a child. It could also be why he is so scared of the red priestesses and priests.
That's a great accent??? I didn't even realised she was trying to do a British accent LOL. Great sarcastic recovery though haha Great video, thank you for posting!
Have you or Joe Magician reviewed this since season 8 and the Long Night series were cancelled? Any new thoughts?
I think Nan is a child of the forest that helped create the night king. They say they live for thousands of years.
I love it when I receive a notification from this channel🔥👌🔥👌
I suggest you guys look up the storyline and the ending scene to the pc game diablo. I think that's the direction we are going. Dragon glass in place of the soul stone obviously.
There's no link to the previous video.
Grey do you think at the end jon will take the night Kings place and lead the white walkers back north
Does anyone know if the actor tied to the tree in the walker creation scene has or shall be cast in the prequel series?
The "conversion scene" you reference, the first Night King was not tied to a rock. He was tied to a Weirwood. Which is relevant.
An important theme throughout the story is that there is good and bad in all races and individuals, so judgement is best reserved until full context is considered and even then is entirely subjective.
Nobody has answered why Jon told Berric "you don't understand" when he pointed at the night king and said kill him and they will all die. If they have been resurrected are they still "alive" or dead men walking?
Dope video love both of yinz. The looong night is getting shorter by the day ✌️
There is another dialogue in the show which kind off points to Jon being the Night King. When Danaerys points out that before starks bent the knee to her ancestors starks were kings and that there has always been peace in Westeros when a stark and Targaryan sat on the opposite ends of the country. A stark in the north and a targareyan on the Iron throne. I dont know how valid this is but i always thought that line stuck out in their conversation.
Just for clarification- did you say that The Wall's Magic keeps dragons from going north of the wall like it keeps the WW from coming south?
Because if so, how did Dany get her dragons up there?
I love your narrative voice
but the imp is son of the mad king and theres a episode where a witch looked right at him after saying prince that was promise
Listening to this it made me think of something when u mentioned the starks having the long beards that it may reference the picture in the cave that John showed Dany
The long bearded men in the cave may have been starks and thats they were the original white walkers or help to create them. That may be what John meant when he told Beric beyond the wall "you dont understand".
Just a super random thought. What if lady stoneheart appears in the last season as a walker. Maybe when they attack winterfell and raise the dead ?
If wights can't swim, how did they get the chains around Viserion?
So if the scene of the initial NK sacrifice is supposed to be on the isle of faces before the pact? Wouldn’t this guy have to be one of the First men? Since there were no other people around yet he would have to have been either captured, or given to the children, so they could use him to create an army designed to help win the war against the other first men? Maybe he was captured and tied up by giants for the greenseers to convert? Maybe that’s a part of the pact is that you can’t undo the blood magic only replace it with a new life? I’m wondering if since melesandre also said the prince who was promised was prophesied about 5k years ago she could be 1k off and it’s really just a pact like “okay we will stop fighting but you gotta let our man go after each long winter eventually and promise a new guy.”
Just one question. If The Others want Jon or Bran why wait untill now? It would have been so much easier to take either one of them when they were babies or even as children.
About wether or not Kings blood is special or not. How about when Melisandre used Gendrys blood to birth the shadow demon? That leads me to believe there is something special about kings blood other wise she could’ve used anyone’s blood.
Can John snow be convert into a white walker consedering he already died ? Does the Night King know he died?
So Jon is tackled by wights and falls through the ice in certain peril. There is no move by the NK or WW to prevent that or to rescue Jon. Twice Jon duels with a WW, HardHome and the Wight Hunt, which are clearly fights to the death. If the NK wants Jon alive, he sure has a strange way of showing it. In the Prologue, the attitude displayed by the WWs is not disappointment that Royce is not Jon i.e. PtwP, but a sudden confidence that if this is the PtwP, then he ain't no big deal. There is absolutely ZERO basis to believe that the NK has been propping Jon up all along. Remember too, Jon is not a Stark bastard. He is a goddamn Targ King. Whatever blood means, this is significant. Bran is the one the NK literally let go, albeit in the La la land of visions. Bran has the powers closer to the NK. Bran's personality is becoming dehumanized without sentimentality. These cannot be ignored or dismissed. These are put out there for a reason.
I am so glad the continuation of this discussion is here! Juice time with Mama Gray! Yeah!
With the Targaryen connection I think it’s that the dragon magic is the same type of earth magic as children of the forest and thus Dany is needed now for the ritual to transform Jon because there’s no more children. Like if you figure the rank in the NK army is how you are changed, dead no touch Rez makes a regular wight, touch Rez makes you a whitewalker level, so the NK can’t make another NK and be replaced without someone higher in rank to him, a COTF or Dany.
Excellent video! I think you're correct about what the White Walkers want. One person comes to mind who might have an impact on the fate of House Stark: Theon Greyjoy. Theon has been on a redemptive arc; after all, he declared himself the Prince of Winterfell after betraying House Stark, & was believed to have executed the 2 youngest wolves. He also has king's blood, & did claim Winterfell; I wonder if they demand the life of a prince of Winterfell, if Theon would offer himself, as a way to making right the terrible errors he committed against the family who honored him as a royal prisoner, like royal houses did in medieval times.
This would be awesome. If you've seen any leaks from the very legit TH-camr FrikiDoctor (who has been correct on leaks from the past few seasons), it appears Theon may not make it to the end of this story. But! I feel like he may be killed saving his sister.
@@aprilzoegandphoenix6484 His sister was one bad-ass warrior. But, I think the crazy uncle will kill her, like a petulant child pulling the legs off an insect. Although Theon failed his sister during the battle, I don't think he'll be able to save her from their uncle. In that convo w/ Jon, Jon tells him he's both Greyjoy & Stark; I think Theon may soon be telling Jon something similar. Theon feels he has much to atone for; ideally, he would be able to rescue his sister, & somehow balance out the crimes & betrayals he committed against his foster family. If he could save his sister, she would rock being a Greyjoy Queen. Damn, I wish April was here already!!!
But along with John and bran there was also the brendon rivers and the maester at castle black so there was 4 ppl in the north that had kings blood right
Okkaaayyyyyyy. First of all, this video is AMAZING. So much good discussion.
Now, I was totally on board with you about Bran being the target UNTIL listening to you guys go back and forth about the significance of King’s blood. I feel like Bran is probably still a target because he has the know how to defeat the night king himself. HOWEVER, the night king could have made things a lot easier for himself by killing Drogon (instead of Viserion) at the lake battle forcing Jon, Dany, and all the others to die right there if he truly just wanted to get to Bran. They wouldn’t have been able to rally troops and prepare for a giant battle that would potentially stop the walkers in their tracks. I think that the Night King has the potential to see the future similar to the blood raven and that he needed Jon and Dany to survive and procreate because their baby is the prince who was promised. The blood of a Targaryen/Stark BABY that he can turn straight into an intelligent white walker seems like a much more enticing reward to me. He knew that the 3 eyed raven was going to die and be transferred to Bran so of course he would try to stop a new three eyed raven from being created but if that was truly the end goal why even give Jon and Dany the chance to get away from him??
We learn about kings blood with Gendry. That he will make kings rise and fall. Which king did he help rise? And how does his blood come into play?
Second, did Bran getting touched by the night king break the spell with the wall, as with the werewood protection spell, allowing the night king to travel south as soon as Bran went south?
9:44 NED SAID ANYTHING BEFORE THE WORD "BUT" WAS BULLSHIT LOL
What if the night king wants Sansa?. That would be a great Twist
@Todd Starbuck 😀
It's possible because she made a comment in EW about how her character arc ended. She was surprised !
Lady was sort of sacrificed too
Obviously, she'd phoenix him to pieces and the promise of spring would be fulfilled...lol
He wants Cersei's unborn baby who is "The Valonqar" the Night Queen.
The 1st White Walker Witch with magical powers that turned him.
How is benjen stark survive behind wall,its really question,maybe he's half human half walker?
Also how did the children save him if their cave was blown up when the Night King came after Bran?
we will probably never find out, as well as most of the facts about the night king and why he took little babies
"Dorne's not in the show anymore, Joe" LOL
Like you said in part 1 of this video, the NK always shows up when either Bran or Jon is around, but treats them differently. It seems like he wants to kill Bran, but is just toying with Jon. What if Jon is the "Prince that was promised" and is supposed to become the new NK, but Bran has the ability to stop it and that's why the current NK wants him dead?!?! Just a thought
How it went wrong: when the Children turned that man into the first White Walker he may have had to power to warg. If the obsidian gave him the power of the White Walkers it also allowed him to warg into many beings at once which could explain how the wights came to be. We saw at Hardhomme how the Night King was able to raise all of the dead, he is just warging into their dead bodies at the same time, also while being able to stay in his own body. (So says: cmurray82889 No country for Old Nan
)
What if the first Night King got killed by Jon and had no other option because of the Corpse Queen command him to do it. It's Jon himself from the future trying to get revenge on Bran for bannishing him to the North. By bannishing someone you also erase his/her name from all the Books and never mention him in the upcoming books.
The Night King's actions are cold and calculated, this kind of effort will only lead to who's in charge.
Edric Snow has Targeryen Blood, and I think when Melisandre says Fire Magic is depending on Kings Blood, it is actually Targeryen blood that is important to Fire Magic.
The Others want Sansa as their Night’s Queen. That would allow them to have children. Craster has to keep sacrificing his boys because they are accepting them as temporary substitutes. Sansa is the “princess that was promised” and she will need to be killed by John. This is an echo of when Ned had to kill Lady. Also, they want to kill John because he will kill Sansa.
Lorne Jordan I love that idea!
LOL
This is an interesting idea. I am sure that they want thier night queen because of the opening scene with the dismembered wildlings, but I think that it is Daenerys that they need. There are far more connections between Daenerys and the night king than there are with Sansa (I can repeat these for you if you are interested). It takes magic to prepare the night queen. I think that it was supposed to be Sansa, but that it is now Daenerys because of some magic that the Starks had done that resulted in them being executed for treason. By this I mean that the next born Targaeryan girl would become the night queen. Craster is also most probably a Stark because of the reverse spelling 'retsarc'.
@@peterquinn5012 I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this and why/how there are connections between Dany and the NK.
@@lesliemisaacs Firstly my apologies for the length of this. I first became aware of the connection between the characters when I watched a video by the excellent Talking Thrones a couple of months back. This video brings our attention to Daenserys's vision of the Throne room where it is destroyed and snow is falling. She then sees herself go north of the wall. The sounds in the background during this scene are whitewalker backing sounds. When Bran has the same vision he next sees the night king. Starting from season1 we see the scene where the white walkers have cut up the wildlings. They have fixed a young teenage girl to a tree and dismembered the rest of them. The fact that it is a teenage girl indicates that their message is about someone similar. Daenerys is only 13 in the books. It can only be Daenerys or Sansa if it is a main character. The rest of this scene probably represents that it is a young woman just come of age and the heads on short stakes represent children. We hear old nan talk of an early lord commander of the night's watch that fell in love with a woman that had skin as pale as the moon. Daenerys has a pale complexion and was the moon of Drogo's life. Daenerys is known as stormborn as she was born during the worst storm in memory. At the end of season 6 Jon says the true enemy (night king) does not wait out the storm - he brings the storm. At the start of season 7 Daenerys arrives in Dragonstone and there is a bad storm. Daenerys is th ebreaker of chains and the night king has massive chains in season 7, 'Beyond the Wall'. When Daenerys frees the slaes they rise their hands above their heads shouting Mhysa (mother). This is mirrored by the night king at Hardholm. He raises his hands above his head to raise the dead and make them his 'children'. In the episode 'Beyond the Wall' many people complained that the night king could easily have killed Drogon when Daenerys was riding it. I think he did not want to kill Daenerys and killed Visaeryon instead. In this scene the white walkers and wights could have attacked earlier as we saw a white walker cross frozen lakex with Crasters baby. They waited until Daenerys was near. Daenerys wears clothes that are the night kings colours:- white, grey and blue. Her team have similar collar designs to their clothes as the white walkers. A lot of the time is is not particularly animated and this reflects how the white walkers move and their lack of facial movement.The only characters we have seen that can walk through fire are the white walkers and Daenerys. In the books she dreams that she is having sex with one of th elords of Meereen and his manhood is as cold as ice. Someof thiss may be just coincidence, but it is too much for just that.
Return of the Gray Lady...
Yass we’re back at it again, let’s begin