Yeah buddy! Super cool video. Thanks for sharing! We make Tesla turbines for low temperature steam and organic Rankine cycle. Yes real Tesla turbines that actually work, real power and torque out at low RPMs too. Yes I know what everyone claims about them but we’ve already proven it’s more than capable. 6.22ft-Ibs of torque at only 4150rpm and +4.25kW between 6000-12,000 rpm.
I am 62 years old,and this reminds me of when I was a kid, we had an old Natural Gas powered refrigerator. My Grandfather worked the early West Texas oil and natural gas fields. They had plenty natural gas, but no electricity. Instead of a compressor, it worked on the same principle as a coffee percolator; With just a pilot light to circulate the refrigerant.
I'm curious to see how well this will work out. I think the biggest challenge will be dealing with future mechanical errors if it's running 24/7. Good luck and I hope it's a great success!
It is only recently that I have found your channel but everything I see makes me sit up and take notice. Back in my school days (over 3 decades ago now!) I loved physics and was pretty good at it, but we were forced to make choices in subjects and I stupidly chose music and not physics. (Back then I figured i would get a look in on more chicks with a guitar in my hand than a circuit board!). Im now in my forties and whilst I had a pretty good time in my youth I regret not keeping hold of the knowledge that I had the opportunity to learn. Every video you make rekindles that interest and makes me go away to learn more so thank you for sharing it all. I will look forward to your next video with interest.
While I didn’t read all the comments this is VERY interesting. While you stated this would be used to charge a battery bank. Depending where you reside your current thought process might be a better choice (I live in Florida and have not seen the sun for 3 days so my solar water system has been rendered useless). My point, having a multi-pronged approach to address your needs is a wise one sir. Keep up the good work, you are making us think!
I'm only halfway through the video and I got to say thank you because I've been looking for this exact video for almost a year now but I feel like the pump is not necessary as the fluid should work like a thermosiphon but I will continue to watch and also acknowledge that this is 8 years old so hopefully there's more
Been thinking about a similar setup for years now. My main idea was to set it up more on the basic propane refrigerator design. Loved the video and please follow up and lets see the whole shebang when you get it going.
So pumped about this build! Keep us posted on the progress! Thermodynamics, Fluid Dynamics and Heat Transfer were some of my favorites. Wish i was closer so i could help out.
When you consider that many preppers think we will sink back into the middle ages once SHTF comes, you would think that they would love to see projects like this. Without any modern technology, we are just serfs with cooler weapons. If society does collapse, it will be guys like you helping to get manufacturing started again. Heat and power will be the key to metalworking, fabrication, then powered transportation, and then the rest of the manufacturing processes will follow. It could be that our grandkids will see a world where industry does not control but is controlled by rational members of a new republic. And Americans will again be free.
Serves you right for opening up your old text books. I am a retired HVAC Tech, Stationary Engineer, Gas Fitter, and am soon to embark on a project to go off grid in town without the use of solar or wind. I am not going to use a Rankine Cycle system but for years I have considered it. What comes to mind is the old double and triple expansion steam engines that were in use when the first steam turbines came along. If you have energy left in your working fluid when it leaves the scroll you might be able to use a larger displacement second pump (motor) to assist the scroll and increase the efficiency of the system. Have you run your prototype yet? Keep us posted.
Excellent project choice!!! Anxious to see how well the scroll works out for you. Hoping to follow suit on my own. Good luck to you and thanks for sharing the information.
this is very interesting, I do heating and air for a living all those materials are things I have access to for sure I am interested for sure to see how this works
Any update on this project? Am doing a university fyp project on solar based orc. Can you provide some more details of this project to help our. Thanks
Back in school my teacher always tells me "where is your t-s diagram?" Ha ha... looking at the temp/pressure/enthalpy chart for your working fluid...those are low pressures and temps... this will be interesting see you accomplish your goal. Seeing you work this problem motivates me to get back into thermodynamics.
Great work! I built a similar system for an engineering capstone project. You have probably watched my video about it on TH-cam. Your plan looks solid bit I would suggest minimizing losses as much as possible between your evaporator and turbine by putting them closer together. I would also be concerned about compatibility of any gaskets/seals in your hardware and the type of refrigerant you will be using.
After watching your video,did some research into this cool idea.Found a company called Electratherm that sells complete generation units with a claimed output of 30 to 65Kw! A home brewed system would be even cooler,I think!
You have peaked my interest, I am a heat and air man and understand refrigerant. One problem I can foresee is make sure you have a deep vacuum pulled on the system. This will ensure trouble free operation. What type of pump are you using to circulate the refrigerant through the system? What type of metering devise are you using to achieve change of state in the gas, is the the old car compressor? So many questions. When will you have a parts list out? Keep on tinkering. :-)
Aloha. Not sure I understand even a fraction of what you are assembling, but seems similar to a HRSG at a commercial Calpine Power Plant.....recovering and using energy that otherwise would be lost as wasted heat. While you are adding various elements to it, don't forget about the stable and FREE thermal energy characteristics of the earth itself. Go down just a few feet, summer or winter, and the earth maintains a very stable temperature. You can utilize that by drilling a well and lowering a loop of plumbing materials. Look forward to seeing your ORC progress in 2014 :) Peace & Prepare
looks interesting and I would like to see more. I think Orc would make a cool name for it. Just a thought and I could be all wrong but could you use this to heat a house in the winter with the heat that you are trying to get rid of.
I would look at how propane refrigerators work only because it is a sealed system that works. Perhaps it could help in the scale working model area, all that's missing is the power part...
engineer775 Practical Preppers Whats the PSI your looking to run your Scorel ? Or how ever you spell it .. I may have a working pump that may work but the PSI is like 300+ for min RPM.. Thanks Brother God Bless.
engineer775 Practical Preppers They have air compressors that use a 'blower' type worm drive...would that be more durable as a scroll, if plumbed correctly??
Here in the Canadian North this is viable to run off the home heating boiler. Also solar radiance in the December to March window is much lower so an alternative to the solar panels is needed. The Gas generator is expensive to run! Any update on this project?
I doubt if I ever build one, but I'd like to see it in operation. I must be under estimating the RPMs that the compressor will run with the gases running through the pump.
very interested in seeing this fully working and then scaled down an made compact enough to fit into a doorway.. then it would be a sellable product. but I have reservations about it making more power than the compressor and water pumps will draw. it will obviously need battery power to get started, but can it really be self powering and still provide a practical excess. oh, and the other heat exchanger can be used to dry foods in a cabinet.
I'm curious if the system will at some point become saturated with heat or will cooling the condenser with water from a creek or some large quanity body of water help keep it from just building heat to the point of saturation?
Consider what sort of lubricant you need for the compressor (scroll). IIRC, R134a systems use PAG, but I couldn't tell you at this time what is compatable with your refrigerant. Thermo was my best subject under my physics degree.
I thought of doing this with pentane and using a condenser that is buried under the frost line in the ground,I'm still learning but I can not figure out why this is not used more widely
Very cool. Have you thought of using a small thermoelectric generator (TEG) to run your pumps? Seems one could be set up near your heat exchanger. I know these won't make the amount of power you are looking for but the could run the pump and supply the 12v for the clutch on your scroll. If they were in your exchanger they could make energy from the waste heat.
Awesome idea. First concern of mine would be the ability to acquire the refrigerant in an off grid situation, second would be the parts. But a question I have is would the same concept be possible using water instead of refrigerant, ie the steam engine?
I'm curious if you ever got this working because I used to work at a combined cycle plant and have wanted to make my own steam turbine system for a long time. Regarding the heat source, you could find waste heat from the cooling loop of an engine (which would allow you to use water or antifreeze) or its exhaust. Depending on how far you get into it, you'll probably need a good alarm and trip plan along with all the necessary instrumentation.
cool, i didn't know some car generators are made to work on gas, ive only seen belt driven generators. ive been thinking on how to store some of that heat when heating a stove and am intrigued by Salt, what would you make of it if id make a something of a copper spiral on the chimney (waterheating) and cover it with salt so that it would store some of that heat and release it when needed , is it even practical or just plain insane? or perhaps its possible with another material?
Hybrids like the Prius use Electric driven ac compressor so I'm wondering if you could use something like this to generate 12 volt without the need to run a belt driven alternator
this is neat I have to say steam 3 different fluids preheater (of some sort) to heat the refrigerant a turbine 3 heat exchanger heat it cool it and then it starts the process all over again a pump. it seem like it would be a fun time to try and find all the components but it seems fairly strait forward after to components have been gathered up. I look forward to seeing the progress on this build it is very cool.
I was thinking you could build some very low tech solar heat tube boxes and utilize the heat off these to boil the refrigerant. On sunny days this could save you from using bio fuels to power the system. Good luck with this project this year. I'll keep looking for your progress.
So how does this compare to a stirling engine/generator when it comes to price and efficiency? A stirling needs really high temperature to get really efficient, and i guess that the steam turbine also gets better efficiency with higher temperatures even with the low boiling point refrigerants? I had not heard about running steam turbines on refrigerants to be able to run them on lower temperatures before. Really cool idea! You could combine it with the gasifier/generator that you have to get a combined cycle with really good efficiency getting a lot of energy out of the wood.
Please, please do an update on your results. Any data that you've discovered. I'm going to be making of these this year. I was inspired by your video when I watched this 8 years ago.
Back in school, the first thing my thermo teacher would say is "Where is your T-S diagram? " My thermo book "Fundamentals of engineering thermodynamics, 7th ed" only has a brief description of ORC but I know the concept is the same. I would love to see your actual workjng temps and pressures your gonna work with.
Very interesting concept, I can hardly-wait to see more. Happy New Year to you and yours; and as always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
245fa, boils at 15 celsius. This thing won't work in the summer, but will be a champion in the winter! I'm curious what the efficiencies will be. If you are getting 50%+ this is a winner, and could sell mass produced. This would be especially well suited to northern climates, where wood is plentiful but temperatures are -30C in winter.
engineer775 Practical Preppers Makes sense, I imagine the water on the condenser will do the trick. In your opinion, is an engineer degree worth it? I have my 3 year engineering diploma, takes 2 years to upgrade to a degree. Are you finding decent work as an engineer? Thanks!
*Cool idea! I was thinking something along this line to power a small shop , But with a Small Liquid cooled engine, think it would make enough heat from the water jacket & homemade exhaust heat exchanger?* _Maybe a 13hp 2cyl Honda HT3813 Engine? Also Could power a 4-6Kw Gen Head @ 1800RPM_ & Of Course make it run off a Wood gasifier (Maybe even a Heat Exchanger off the wood gasifier?)
I saw your video and your project is amazing sir I had a question regarding it... The question is in an ORC if the gas is pressurized then wont the pressure of the gas would turn the turbine? And what is the neccessity of pressurizing the gas? Correct me if i am wrong sir... Ur feedback would be appreciated Thanks..
Scott, This is some mythical unicorn stuff. Great project, over time I believe that (as always) you will prove the technology works for home use. Unfortunately though, I too have fallen victim to the studies of thermodynamics. It is what I am currently studying for my bachelor's in fire science, specifically, arson investigation/detection. At this point I am questioning why I need this but it seems through your personal quest for silent power there is an answer. God Bless brother.
How much temperature differential much there be between your hot side and ambient temperature, or cold heat exchanger, for the cycle to work and produce a usable amount of power? You've got my brain spinning on potential heat sources other than combustion... can't wait to see it work!
Now your speaking my language. Real power density. In Spain they are biulding a supercritical co2 brayton cycle with a efficiency of 56% driven by a power tower. You could biuld a two staged heat engine that would run on the Rankin cycle at lower temps the switch to the brayton cycle at nighter temps. Your heat would be a rocket mass heater and solar thermal. You could have refrigeration by installing a jet ejector on the exit of the expander with a secondary loop after the condensor
I like the refrigeration concept and in theory it has been done as an input to the expander. GW univeristy is tops at this. It is tempting to try to add to thie cycle but once the cycle works I will have enough electricity to run as much refrigeration as needed. Thanks for the input .. you have me thinking.
i understand what this is, but how available are the chemicals youre using? if there is a shtf scenario...then what when you run out of the chemicals? fyi i know nothing about this but i think i understand the engineering behind it
engineer775 Practical Preppers I have read where the working fluid in this kind of configuration was butane. So you have options on the availability of a suitable working fluid.
I would like to start a similar project and have been doing some research. From what I gather a turbo-expander running on super-critical carbon dioxide would give you the best energy generation efficiency for this low temp rankine cycle. This is due to the relatively high latent heat of vaporization of CO2 compared to the organics. It is quite difficult to source such turbo expander though. so for the initial poc i was thinking of hacking a scroll compressor running in reverse without the check valve. The refridgerant I had in mind was R134a only because it is plentiful and relatively cheap with plenty of sources of compressors that run r134a to hack. I am not familiar with the p245f refridgerant that you chose and was wondering why you decided on it. I differ with u however on dealing with the utility company. My goal is total independence. If my battery bank is fully charged i would use the system to store energy as compressed nitrogen and store it in huge compressed nitrogen tanks or possibly liquid nitrogen. When the battery banks need charging, the generator running on compressed nitrogen from the storage tanks would kick in and charge up the battery bank. The compressed nitrogen can also be used to power motors, pumps, and other mechanical devices that use compressed air. I would be interested in sharing notes and collaborating.
It would seem on the scale of your set-up that any power produced would be too little or too much depending on demand in the home. Possibly your system could be hooked to charging a battery bank to even out those periods of low demand.
You are correct that is why I mentioned a battery bank with the ability to interface with the grid and sell back. I am shooting for 1.5 kw/hr. 24/7 - Good catch. :)
Found your channel after looking at GRC information. I was looking at hot water being produced from the heat generated in hot composting. It seems that i would be possible to use pipes run through a compost pile to produce the heat to run your ORC. Compost should have internal temperature of around 150 degrees. Let me know your thoughts.
Yeah buddy! Super cool video. Thanks for sharing! We make Tesla turbines for low temperature steam and organic Rankine cycle. Yes real Tesla turbines that actually work, real power and torque out at low RPMs too. Yes I know what everyone claims about them but we’ve already proven it’s more than capable. 6.22ft-Ibs of torque at only 4150rpm and +4.25kW between 6000-12,000 rpm.
I am 62 years old,and this reminds me of when I was a kid, we had an old Natural Gas powered refrigerator. My Grandfather worked the early West Texas oil and natural gas fields. They had plenty natural gas, but no electricity. Instead of a compressor, it worked on the same principle as a coffee percolator; With just a pilot light to circulate the refrigerant.
So much Potential, I hope you continued your project. What happened, why is there only one video of the ORC Generator?
I'm curious to see how well this will work out. I think the biggest challenge will be dealing with future mechanical errors if it's running 24/7. Good luck and I hope it's a great success!
It is only recently that I have found your channel but everything I see makes me sit up and take notice. Back in my school days (over 3 decades ago now!) I loved physics and was pretty good at it, but we were forced to make choices in subjects and I stupidly chose music and not physics. (Back then I figured i would get a look in on more chicks with a guitar in my hand than a circuit board!). Im now in my forties and whilst I had a pretty good time in my youth I regret not keeping hold of the knowledge that I had the opportunity to learn. Every video you make rekindles that interest and makes me go away to learn more so thank you for sharing it all. I will look forward to your next video with interest.
Appreciate it. IT's never too late to dive in. I find all theory without practical implementation not very rewarding.
Love to see this a reality. Time to pull it off the shelf.
Never fail to blow my hat off. Some of those that don't "like" technology are those that don't want you to make your own power. *****
While I didn’t read all the comments this is VERY interesting. While you stated this would be used to charge a battery bank. Depending where you reside your current thought process might be a better choice (I live in Florida and have not seen the sun for 3 days so my solar water system has been rendered useless). My point, having a multi-pronged approach to address your needs is a wise one sir. Keep up the good work, you are making us think!
I'm only halfway through the video and I got to say thank you because I've been looking for this exact video for almost a year now but I feel like the pump is not necessary as the fluid should work like a thermosiphon but I will continue to watch and also acknowledge that this is 8 years old so hopefully there's more
Can't wait to see this work.
Been thinking about a similar setup for years now. My main idea was to set it up more on the basic propane refrigerator design. Loved the video and please follow up and lets see the whole shebang when you get it going.
So pumped about this build! Keep us posted on the progress!
Thermodynamics, Fluid Dynamics and Heat Transfer were some of my favorites. Wish i was closer so i could help out.
When you consider that many preppers think we will sink back into the middle ages
once SHTF comes, you would think that they would love to see projects like this. Without any modern technology, we are just serfs with cooler weapons. If society does collapse, it will be guys like you helping to get manufacturing started again. Heat and power will be the key to metalworking, fabrication, then powered transportation, and then the rest of the manufacturing processes will follow. It could be that our grandkids will see a world where industry does not control but is controlled by rational members of a new republic. And Americans will again be free.
Serves you right for opening up your old text books. I am a retired HVAC Tech, Stationary Engineer, Gas Fitter, and am soon to embark on a project to go off grid in town without the use of solar or wind. I am not going to use a Rankine Cycle system but for years I have considered it. What comes to mind is the old double and triple expansion steam engines that were in use when the first steam turbines came along. If you have energy left in your working fluid when it leaves the scroll you might be able to use a larger displacement second pump (motor) to assist the scroll and increase the efficiency of the system. Have you run your prototype yet? Keep us posted.
What a great idea for a new year project. Your energy to learn new things and actually put them in practice is inspiring.
Awesome! Look forward to seeing how well it works out!
looking forward to see how it turns out.
This will be awesome to see running. Can't wait!
I love these type of vids. More technology. Keep them coming!
I think you and I remember thermodynamics class very differently. :-)
Excellent project choice!!! Anxious to see how well the scroll works out for you. Hoping to follow suit on my own. Good luck to you and thanks for sharing the information.
I am excited to see more on this project!
Love it. Someone give this man a high-five. Can't wait to see more.
I'm VERY interested to see how this plays out.
This looks interesting, keep the updates coming with this project.
this is very interesting, I do heating and air for a living all those materials are things I have access to for sure I am interested for sure to see how this works
Any update on this project?
Am doing a university fyp project on solar based orc.
Can you provide some more details of this project to help our.
Thanks
Curious to see what kind of inlet and outlet temps you will need for the heat exchangers.
inlet 180f and outlet 60f is what I have without getting fancy.
engineer775 Practical Preppers This may have to be a project that I replicate.
We'll be watching this project very closely. Always wondered if this was possible. To see it in concept is exciting. Well done
Very cool!!! i had no idea this technology existed, looking forward to see it up and running
Can't wait for the next one in this research !
Back in school my teacher always tells me "where is your t-s diagram?" Ha ha... looking at the temp/pressure/enthalpy chart for your working fluid...those are low pressures and temps... this will be interesting see you accomplish your goal. Seeing you work this problem motivates me to get back into thermodynamics.
Great work! I built a similar system for an engineering capstone project. You have probably watched my video about it on TH-cam. Your plan looks solid bit I would suggest minimizing losses as much as possible between your evaporator and turbine by putting them closer together. I would also be concerned about compatibility of any gaskets/seals in your hardware and the type of refrigerant you will be using.
where can i watch your video at?
i cant wait to see the out come of this. Thank you for all you do
@ engineer775 Practical Preppers ...............dude this rocks!
Very cool project
After watching your video,did some research into this cool idea.Found a company called Electratherm that sells complete generation units with a claimed output of 30 to 65Kw! A home brewed system would be even cooler,I think!
Very interesting project. Look forward to seeing more on this.
Can I know from where you got the pump for pumping the refrigerant and also the outlet pressure by the pump?
You have peaked my interest, I am a heat and air man and understand refrigerant. One problem I can foresee is make sure you have a deep vacuum pulled on the system. This will ensure trouble free operation. What type of pump are you using to circulate the refrigerant through the system? What type of metering devise are you using to achieve change of state in the gas, is the the old car compressor? So many questions. When will you have a parts list out? Keep on tinkering. :-)
Aloha.
Not sure I understand even a fraction of what you are assembling, but seems similar to a HRSG at a commercial Calpine Power Plant.....recovering and using energy that otherwise would be lost as wasted heat. While you are adding various elements to it, don't forget about the stable and FREE thermal energy characteristics of the earth itself. Go down just a few feet, summer or winter, and the earth maintains a very stable temperature. You can utilize that by drilling a well and lowering a loop of plumbing materials. Look forward to seeing your ORC progress in 2014 :)
Peace & Prepare
any updates? such a cool project! i would really just like to see a video of this running
Use an R134a internally equalised expansion valve. I recommend Danfoss. What Kw load is your system so that the orifice for the valve can be sized?
looks interesting and I would like to see more. I think Orc would make a cool name for it. Just a thought and I could be all wrong but could you use this to heat a house in the winter with the heat that you are trying to get rid of.
This item has REALLY captured my interest! How is it progressing?
I would look at how propane refrigerators work only because it is a sealed system that works. Perhaps it could help in the scale working model area, all that's missing is the power part...
Awesome proof-of-concept project. You Sir, are the bomb!
As long as it doesn't become a bomb I will be happy.
engineer775 Practical Preppers Whats the PSI your looking to run your Scorel ? Or how ever you spell it .. I may have a working pump that may work but the PSI is like 300+ for min RPM.. Thanks Brother God Bless.
yankey4 120 psi
engineer775 Practical Preppers They have air compressors that use a 'blower' type worm drive...would that be more durable as a scroll, if plumbed correctly??
BoilerRoomRadio I don't think it will be more durable but it might be more efficient. Thanks
yes but will it also pump water from your well? That should be a final requirement of the system. Or make espresso?
Here in the Canadian North this is viable to run off the home heating boiler. Also solar radiance in the December to March window is much lower so an alternative to the solar panels is needed. The Gas generator is expensive to run! Any update on this project?
I doubt if I ever build one, but I'd like to see it in operation. I must be under estimating the RPMs that the compressor will run with the gases running through the pump.
very interested in seeing this fully working and then scaled down an made compact enough to fit into a doorway.. then it would be a sellable product. but I have reservations about it making more power than the compressor and water pumps will draw. it will obviously need battery power to get started, but can it really be self powering and still provide a practical excess. oh, and the other heat exchanger can be used to dry foods in a cabinet.
I'm curious if the system will at some point become saturated with heat or will cooling the condenser with water from a creek or some large quanity body of water help keep it from just building heat to the point of saturation?
Consider what sort of lubricant you need for the compressor (scroll). IIRC, R134a systems use PAG, but I couldn't tell you at this time what is compatable with your refrigerant. Thermo was my best subject under my physics degree.
I thought of doing this with pentane and using a condenser that is buried under the frost line in the ground,I'm still learning but I can not figure out why this is not used more widely
Once again you have my attention !! Keep up the awesome work and Thank You !
Very cool. Have you thought of using a small thermoelectric generator (TEG) to run your pumps? Seems one could be set up near your heat exchanger. I know these won't make the amount of power you are looking for but the could run the pump and supply the 12v for the clutch on your scroll. If they were in your exchanger they could make energy from the waste heat.
Nice idea! You could sandwich them between the cooler and pre-heater.
Awesome idea. First concern of mine would be the ability to acquire the refrigerant in an off grid situation, second would be the parts. But a question I have is would the same concept be possible using water instead of refrigerant, ie the steam engine?
I'm curious if you ever got this working because I used to work at a combined cycle plant and have wanted to make my own steam turbine system for a long time. Regarding the heat source, you could find waste heat from the cooling loop of an engine (which would allow you to use water or antifreeze) or its exhaust. Depending on how far you get into it, you'll probably need a good alarm and trip plan along with all the necessary instrumentation.
oh, and did you have to pull a vacume in the line before adding the refrigerant?
cool, i didn't know some car generators are made to work on gas, ive only seen belt driven generators.
ive been thinking on how to store some of that heat when heating a stove and am intrigued by Salt, what would you make of it if id make a something of a copper spiral on the chimney (waterheating) and cover it with salt so that it would store some of that heat and release it when needed , is it even practical or just plain insane? or perhaps its possible with another material?
Hybrids like the Prius use Electric driven ac compressor so I'm wondering if you could use something like this to generate 12 volt without the need to run a belt driven alternator
this is neat I have to say steam 3 different fluids preheater (of some sort) to heat the refrigerant a turbine 3 heat exchanger heat it cool it and then it starts the process all over again a pump. it seem like it would be a fun time to try and find all the components but it seems fairly strait forward after to components have been gathered up. I look forward to seeing the progress on this build it is very cool.
I was thinking you could build some very low tech solar heat tube boxes and utilize the heat off these to boil the refrigerant. On sunny days this could save you from using bio fuels to power the system. Good luck with this project this year. I'll keep looking for your progress.
Holy crap, education pays! I wish I understood half of this...
looked for the follow up on your ORC setup - but couldn't find anything. Did you do a follow-up video?
Hi Eng775, How did this project work out? Regards, Bill BEMech
So how does this compare to a stirling engine/generator when it comes to price and efficiency?
A stirling needs really high temperature to get really efficient, and i guess that the steam turbine also gets better efficiency with higher temperatures even with the low boiling point refrigerants?
I had not heard about running steam turbines on refrigerants to be able to run them on lower temperatures before. Really cool idea!
You could combine it with the gasifier/generator that you have to get a combined cycle with really good efficiency getting a lot of energy out of the wood.
Hi 775, how about an update on the ORC?
The elevations to the components with the ability to lube looks overlooked to me. I don't know why but I see a moonshine still ;)
Please, please do an update on your results. Any data that you've discovered.
I'm going to be making of these this year.
I was inspired by your video when I watched this 8 years ago.
Still on this project? lets connect, and share some details.
Back in school, the first thing my thermo teacher would say is "Where is your T-S diagram? " My thermo book "Fundamentals of engineering thermodynamics, 7th ed" only has a brief description of ORC but I know the concept is the same. I would love to see your actual workjng temps and pressures your gonna work with.
Any progress on this project yet? The results could be amazing.
Very interesting concept, I can hardly-wait to see more. Happy New Year to you and yours; and as always, thanks’ for taking the time to make this video! And I support this site. ~M~
Be waiting for it to be done! Like it!...Jimmy...
245fa, boils at 15 celsius.
This thing won't work in the summer, but will be a champion in the winter!
I'm curious what the efficiencies will be. If you are getting 50%+ this is a winner, and could sell mass produced.
This would be especially well suited to northern climates, where wood is plentiful but temperatures are -30C in winter.
Though is boils at that temp it needs to be heated more to produce the pressure to turn the expander. Its a year rounder.
engineer775 Practical Preppers Makes sense, I imagine the water on the condenser will do the trick. In your opinion, is an engineer degree worth it? I have my 3 year engineering diploma, takes 2 years to upgrade to a degree. Are you finding decent work as an engineer? Thanks!
How did this project worked out? I really like the concept :)
Wow, cool project.
I was wondering today how many Peltier junctions it would take to run a circulator pump. How long they would last. Things like that.
*Cool idea! I was thinking something along this line to power a small shop , But with a Small Liquid cooled engine, think it would make enough heat from the water jacket & homemade exhaust heat exchanger?*
_Maybe a 13hp 2cyl Honda HT3813 Engine? Also Could power a 4-6Kw Gen Head @ 1800RPM_
& Of Course make it run off a Wood gasifier (Maybe even a Heat Exchanger off the wood gasifier?)
I saw your video and your project is amazing sir
I had a question regarding it...
The question is in an ORC if the gas is pressurized then wont the pressure of the gas would turn the turbine? And what is the neccessity of pressurizing the gas?
Correct me if i am wrong sir...
Ur feedback would be appreciated
Thanks..
is it possible to alter propane so it is not flamable and use it ?
That is so cool. Love your work.
Scott,
This is some mythical unicorn stuff. Great project, over time I believe that (as always) you will prove the technology works for home use. Unfortunately though, I too have fallen victim to the studies of thermodynamics. It is what I am currently studying for my bachelor's in fire science, specifically, arson investigation/detection. At this point I am questioning why I need this but it seems through your personal quest for silent power there is an answer. God Bless brother.
How much temperature differential much there be between your hot side and ambient temperature, or cold heat exchanger, for the cycle to work and produce a usable amount of power? You've got my brain spinning on potential heat sources other than combustion... can't wait to see it work!
Did you ever test this? I haven't seen any updates on your site about it.
What is your thoughts on TEG devices. Maybe something that would charge a 12 volt
Now your speaking my language. Real power density. In Spain they are biulding a supercritical co2 brayton cycle with a efficiency of 56% driven by a power tower. You could biuld a two staged heat engine that would run on the Rankin cycle at lower temps the switch to the brayton cycle at nighter temps. Your heat would be a rocket mass heater and solar thermal. You could have refrigeration by installing a jet ejector on the exit of the expander with a secondary loop after the condensor
I like the refrigeration concept and in theory it has been done as an input to the expander. GW univeristy is tops at this. It is tempting to try to add to thie cycle but once the cycle works I will have enough electricity to run as much refrigeration as needed. Thanks for the input .. you have me thinking.
What type of pump can be used for the refrigerant?
Very nice 👍👌 and informative for engineering students
Nevermind, I just found the temp/pressure/enthalpy tables... be cool to see this work.
i understand what this is, but how available are the chemicals youre using? if there is a shtf scenario...then what when you run out of the chemicals? fyi i know nothing about this but i think i understand the engineering behind it
It is a hermetically sealed system. No leakage or it wont work. 245fa is readily available and I will have a couple of extra cylinders on hand.
engineer775 Practical Preppers I have read where the working fluid in this kind of configuration was butane. So you have options on the availability of a suitable working fluid.
When are we going to see this in action? I've been waiting and waiting and checking back so i decided to comment and ask.
I would like to start a similar project and have been doing some research. From what I gather a turbo-expander running on super-critical carbon dioxide would give you the best energy generation efficiency for this low temp rankine cycle. This is due to the relatively high latent heat of vaporization of CO2 compared to the organics. It is quite difficult to source such turbo expander though. so for the initial poc i was thinking of hacking a scroll compressor running in reverse without the check valve. The refridgerant I had in mind was R134a only because it is plentiful and relatively cheap with plenty of sources of compressors that run r134a to hack.
I am not familiar with the p245f refridgerant that you chose and was wondering why you decided on it.
I differ with u however on dealing with the utility company. My goal is total independence. If my battery bank is fully charged i would use the system to store energy as compressed nitrogen and store it in huge compressed nitrogen tanks or possibly liquid nitrogen. When the battery banks need charging, the generator running on compressed nitrogen from the storage tanks would kick in and charge up the battery bank. The compressed nitrogen can also be used to power motors, pumps, and other mechanical devices that use compressed air.
I would be interested in sharing notes and collaborating.
How is this progressing?
Hello sir, did u eventually manage to get an effective result ?
It would seem on the scale of your set-up that any power produced would be too little or too much depending on demand in the home. Possibly your system could be hooked to charging a battery bank to even out those periods of low demand.
You are correct that is why I mentioned a battery bank with the ability to interface with the grid and sell back. I am shooting for 1.5 kw/hr. 24/7 - Good catch. :)
Found your channel after looking at GRC information. I was looking at hot water being produced from the heat generated in hot composting. It seems that i would be possible to use pipes run through a compost pile to produce the heat to run your ORC. Compost should have internal temperature of around 150 degrees. Let me know your thoughts.
Interesting stuff.
to cool, hope it works out.
Hey if i replace the throttler by a scroll expander in a refrigerator will it demonstrate ORC ?
Add me to the list of curious...how did this turn out? What waste heat are your using?