Now what you need to do is pickup a cheap 5000btu window Air Conditioner for $120 from Walmart and strip it dow to merge the evaporator (cold coil) in your cold bucket and the rear condenser coil (hot coil) in your hot bucket. If your Tesla turbines generator can maintain a 400 watts output then that’s all you’ll need to run a 5000btu AC (heat pump). With this combination you will achieve a self looped device which the Law of Conservation of Energy says is not possible. A Heat Pump (air conditioner) has COP of around 4 so the 400 watts of electric power input will actually be closer to 1500 Watts of heat energy, so be careful since it could make a much great Delta (temperature differential) then what you presently working with and you may get in a runaway condition where the turbine may explode. So maybe a dehumidifier or even a small refrigerator heat pump may be safer to start with.
One aspect of this idea is that the Tesla turbine helps lower the temperature of the water vapor on its way to the condenser and thus lowers the heat load on the heat pump which lowers the wattage needed by the heat pump to finish condensing the water vapor.
yo luc, in that case it would achieve a slightly *better power reclamation* to use a mechanical *mostly magnetic motor* in a powered stirling cycle cold end configuration. make it a dual cycle for both a hot left/top end & super cooled cold right/bottom zones, profit... robs conductive low power12v paint on internal heaters are an obvious best use case here to.
This is the best demonstration of basic physics showing the fluid dynamics of hot rushing to meet cold as seen in any tornado or hurricane when a warm front collides with a cold front.
Thanks! It should clear up some doubts too, people were saying I was using compressed air, and that the vacuum pump was going to take more energy then the water had to supply in the form of heat.
@@iEnergySupply You just are very smart. I too try to find examples to help get past the set in stone thinking we find too much of. You are a great man to teach. But rember evil money people are watching. Be careful. I have seen money offered to the helpful when the market is sales base " Threatened " ...Thank you for boldly helping all of us. We need you to write a simple picture book. Excellent job so far.... Small self reliance knowledge strarted this country. I like what you are about.
This is amazing! This is by far the coolest and most potentially powerful heat engine I've seen. I discovered this channel while researching advancing diy energy projects and was so excited to see this new progress. If I could recommend another channel that covers similarly innovative ideas to this community, Robert Murray Smith does some incredible work with applied chemistry, heat engines, graphene, and generation. Great work on this project and best wishes for everyone!
@@iEnergySupplyThanks for the reply! It was through TH-cam I found both channels. Neither channel showed up in my recommended, I'm pretty sure they were both direct search results. Channels like this are my favorite bc they push my understanding of current possibilities further. Unfortunately, the YT algorithm still shows me horrible recommendations, but interesting videos like these make up for that!
What if we use a refrigerant instead of water. One that fully condenses around 10c. Bury the recovery chamber 20ft and heat the hot side in a solar oven. The only thing powered is the recovery pump, and if its not condensing anything it should be pretty low power.
So i'm implementing this idea on my personal house grid with, 500L tanks, i use wood to heat my house and shop in the winter (canada)and scavenge that heat. Im using a plc to control cycle, temperature and pressure. Its linked to a solar collector as well in the summer. I have a return pump that cycles cold back to hot in intervals without drying the hot completely. The cold tank is buried in the ground after a condenser. Ive been making rotor after rotor for the last 6 months trying to find peak efficiency ,brute forcing it. But i got smart called a friend who wrote me a simple ai to try different cycle parameters over and over. Blew up twice. So i use a large cast stainless block as the rotor housing. It helps vibration harmonics. Now for the generator side, permanent magnet off the shelf high speed 5kw rc motor. Biggest logistical nightmare is not leaking vacuum over time with expansion and contraction of the piping. Basically im telling you this already works. Just scale up your tanks and pipe diameter, beef up your housings and worry about going to 99% efficient after. I first saw your concept a year ago, I've had an in use system for 6 months using the sun ,the ground and wood heat. Runs in cycles charging a bank. If you take out the trial and error, this only takes about 5k$ to impliment provided you have a CNC. So not trying to steal your thunder, but if you dont set up a full working system soon, Ill just make a video of mine.
We have the entire working system now, and all the analytical equipment to show exactly what is going on. Thanks for telling about your system, I wish you would make a video, I would love to see your system!!
Sure with consent of IEnergysupply. This is their idea and they made it public. I copied their research and ideas, as far as im concerned they own this IP and i wont step on them.(morals). But sure! come winter when its in full swing. Ill post a video privately to IEnergysupply and they can choose to post. ? Sound fair?
it just makes sense. Everything can travel uninhibited and almost totally friction free in a vacuum, therefore much much lower temperatures would work great. Imagine not having to "boil" water but just warm it. So as long as there is a temperature differential, the water "boils". This generator here would easily provide whatever it would take to maintain the temperature difference and supply. Brilliant!
@@chrisgosselin6399 right? I found a new can of Flex Seal in a dumpster, tried it a few times & every time it failed spectacularly, same with the Flex Seal tape, the garbage won't even stick to it's self, literally spit & bazooka Joe bubble gum will out spec Flex Seal in every measurable metric ( ՞ਊ ՞） Oh, and ya JB Weld is the 🥇 standard followed by 🦆 & 🦍 pending applicable circumstance
What an awesome demonstration. Thank you for sharing your findings with us all. I use a wood fired out door boiler for heat in the winter. I have been entertaining the idea of a stainless pipe in the boiler to make flash steam and turn a turbine. 5-6 months of nearly “free” energy to take advantage of.
Funny because your situation is exactly the reason I have been researching things for a long while now. I look at my boiler every winter thinking to myself damn that's a lot energy not being further harnessed in some fashion or another. It's literally our hard ass work going straight out the chimney 24/7. LOL
@@510Redneck currently working on a secondary chimney boiler to catch some of the heat being blown out the stack. At night when she’s under full burn I can see 12” of glowing orange flame standing from the top. Sheesh. What a waste.
Could this be used to desalinate sea water? Say, if you had tanks of sea water being heated by the sun for your "hot" side (just paint them black), would the water that condenses in the "cold" side be fresh water? The sea water tanks would have to be emptied of brine and refilled every now and then with new sea water as the water evaporates. If the condenser water would be drinkable, and the salt, minerals, etc. in the sea water wouldn't mess with the system somehow, this would be a fantastic way to desalinate water, especially if you're able to extract energy from the system with a Tesla turbine. Current methods of desalination are extremely energy-intensive. A sea water desalination system that actually produced energy would be a huge breakthrough.
Hey bud how have you been!! I'm almost ready to get back working on my research and development and how much would you charge for that working Tesla turbine we were talking about? For my prototype fusion reactor a true engineer cannot ignore the the efficiency of the Tesla turbine, over a standard turbine inside of a rankin cycle system
@@iEnergySupply sorry I meant 300° c for the working fluid, I've been doing a lot of calculations lately, I tend to mix my numbers up. 700° c is the surface temperature of the outside of the heat exchanger inside the vacuum.
@@orcoastgreenman I get all of the air out of the system, on the vacuum gets low enough it automatically starts pumping water vapor. At which point the the air is completely out of the system, I'm not sure. That would have to be studied later on, but you can look up the vapor pressure of water at different temperatures.
Could you check a few simultaneous parameters during a test run: 1) the amount of water traveling from the boiler to the condenser per unit of time 2) the temperature of the boiler 3) the temperature of the condenser 4) the wattage output of the generator 5) the temperature leaving the Tesla turbine
We will be testing as many parameters as we can. we want to boil out 350 gallons and calculate the total water used. Temperature in, out of the turbine as well, we have so many tests to do, and finally some good testing equipment to do it with.
@@iEnergySupply If my calcualtions are correct, boiling 350 gallons of water against a vacuum would be about 3 million BTU of refrigeration due to the latent heat of vaporization. Are you planning on using an external heat source to keep the boiler temperature from dropping too much, or just let it evaporate/sublimate slowly from the normal thermal conductivity?
You need about 4,18kJ to heat a litre/kg of water 1 degree celcius - which means that is what you can extract if you put it in. There is proportional relationship between temperature, pressure and volume - check out the ideal gas law
@@FyaaahS Hi, thanks for your comments. Well stated, the energy entering and leaving are in direct proportion. My interest is how much heat flow (BTUs/hr) is being turned into how much electrical power (KWH)? If I know how much water (lb/hr) is being evaporated the BTUs/hr can be calculated. And if I know the temperature (given) I can calculate the pressure on the high pressure side. I really want to know how much heat energy that is needed to run the Tesla turbine.
What would it take to return the condensate to the hot side by using gravity. Perhaps a passive or spring loaded check valve and a calculated hight differential to maintain a passive return loop.
The ammonia based refrigeration system in rv refrigerators has a gravity return loop. The system uses a pilot light in the form of a propane flame. The size of the flame is what you would get from a bick lighter.
When the sun heats the ocean the ocean water evaporates into the air and travels to a very high altitude. At that point it often condenses. If this condensation water is channeled into a vertical pipe it can be returned to the ocean by way of gravity with a substantial pressure buildup. Work can obviously be extracted as well. No need for a check valve. In the Tesla turbine boiler maybe a float valve would be nice to maintain the water level in the boiler. The Tesla turbine and condenser could just be positioned at a higher elevation compared to the boiler to maintain the pressure difference between the boiler and the condenser.
Also, putting pressure into those glass jugs would be suicidal. Thanks for the demo. Here is an idea for someone to run the demonstration without a vacuum pump. Create the same setup as you have shown, two suitable jars less than half full of water, airtight tubing with an escape valve between them. Open the valve, place both jugs on heat to get them both boiling (escape valve open!) let the water in both jugs boil to purge the air. Then remove the heat and close the valve, let the jugs cool down.When cool place one jug in hot water bath and one jug in cold water bath and the water should migrate to the cold side. Be careful not to pressurize a glass jug!
Yeah in order to pressurize the boiler, we would need temperatures above 212F or 100c which would require a burner or something. Even at 212 degrees the pressure would be extremely low.
I believe a dual trompe would be more practical? When one runs out of pressure, the other goes, and water is replaced into the system that is not currently used.
It actually takes a very long time to use the water because there is so much expansion under vacuum, the water can also easily be pumped into the boiler from the condenser as needed.
I read that Iceland power their entire country from a system quite similar to yours, but instead of water they use another substance which changes from liquid to gas very easily. Upon their prime ministers visit to my country, she commented that their (oceanic) power generators can function with as little as a 5 degree variance between the hot and cold side. Hope any of the above helps advance what you have here. Good job!
Thank you, I was just watching a documentary about Iceland geothermal power yesterday!! I may use ammonia or some other liquid. We will see if it's necessary, I think water will do for solar thermal energy.
Hello. Could it work with 10-30°C temperature difference like heat pumps - ground to surface ambient temp? I mean - if for e.g. we use existing or altered heat pump system at home to create a vacuum we could only add adequate tesla turbine to generate electricity?
@@iEnergySupply Thanks for your reply! I am also thinking: fresnel lens to focus the sunlight to heat the hot side (only to keep it at 60-70° C) and some type of a pipe coil below the ground terminated with the pressure cooker for the cold side for a condenser. How did you come to this idea anyway? It is mind-blowing discovery! I am experimenting with some other patent from Veljko Milkovic (Serbian inventor from Smiljane, too - like Nikola Tesla. There must be some kind of strange radiation over there :D)
So the turbine should ensure the temperature differential last even longer because it is sucking all the energy and creating a colder side and energy vacuum
Excellent demo guys! for new people out there, Bodies of water have weight that causes compression to water lower or central in the body and slows boiling putting a spray nozzle onto the water tank and letting the vacuum suck the water into the evacuated system causes flash vaporization as you have reduced the bodies of water to the smallest size as it reaches open vacuum space aka the piping.
@@iEnergySupply also, between this demonstration and the demonstration where you use water injected into a compressed air stream a la the boundary layer video, i think youve figured out how to use water as a reaction fuel? like, in that vid you forced the water to explode or rapidly expand, releasing its latent heat for the tesla turbine to sap. and in this demo you use a little bit of energy in the form the vacuum pump and warm water, but sets off the phase change of the water, releasing it's latent heat for your turbine to sap. i think this is the turbine answer to the stirling cycle's pistons, i wonder if one of these could be used to liquify air or make fluids super critically cooled.
also if you hadn't seen it, go watch the early slow-mo guys vid where they spin CDs and records so fast that they explode. the CD forms a resonate wave separate from it's rotation before it shatters; i wonder if something similar happens at high speeds in a tesla turbine. im wondering if those resonate waves create high pressure and low pressure zones inside the turbine that the coanda effect is forcing air into, thus forcing it to rapidly expand and contract hundreds of times before it leaves the turbine, making it so any heat inside the working fluid is dumped into the turbine
So, is what you'r building a kind of closed-cycle system that depends on a naturally available (eg solar) heat source? You've made the comparison to Stirling Cycle closed systems. Does the turbine simply replace the complexity of a Stirling engine? Also: how adaptable is your design to situations where you have available water pressure, rather than heat? Are there geometric differences in nozzle structure? Finally, are Tesla turbines equally efficient when they switch between driven pump applications, and energy-harvesting applications, for.a given fluid? Thinking here about classic systems for scavenging energy from flowing fluids where a propellor is not always efficient as a turbine...
We have to do more research on the flow of vapor with a long drop like a hill still. I really want to explore that in the future. it's a Stirling engine but more simple and more powerful I believe.
But how's the ice or hot water reproduced? This is a large stirling, isn't it? (which I've been looking at myself for a while like most have in the last 200 years or so) anyway, I appreciate the video and please keep considering keep things.
One way is to use solar, or a wood stove. Solar heat collectors or solar heat tubes. Geothermal becomes an option as the low temperature differential between outside winter and underground is enough to run the system. Thermal sand batteries will also be an option, all of which I am planning to demonstrate soon.
Why is there so much static building up? Does this happen with compressed air? Why is the turbine more efficient on steam? Is it because the air is more viscous and is able to turn the disks easier? Does the steam move quicker then compressed air? How do you build up the pressure if you have to open the valve to make the water boil? As soon as you close the valve the water stops boiling so it's not adding pressure into the pipe? Sorry for all the questions!
The static is likely from friction from the water vapor moving past the valve. The steam allows a closed loop system and very high vacuum on the exhaust of the turbine which increases efficiency. Water is also more viscus then steam. So far with only a couple psi difference we have achieved 66000 rpm with a load on the turbine.
@@iEnergySupply I think I've worked out why the static charge is building up. You have moist air on one side and dry air on the other. When these two meet in the pipe the moist air rushes to the top of the pipe and the cold dry air sinks to the bottom as cold air is more dense. The constant updraft of warm air and the constant down draft of cold air is the same thing that happens in a thunderstorm and it electricity charges the air around it. That electric charge is then conducted into the pipe and eventually your hand. You have to remember that you have 2 layers of air in the pipe and its behaving like a weather front.
If an electro magnetic water pump moves water through a pvc pipe without the use of a mechanical pump, will your pressurized water produce an electric current if you wound a coil around your pvc pipe? Since you feel static electricity, it might work. Like a reverse electro magnetic water pump?
The skeptics you have garnered are only skeptics because they lack basic understanding of thermodynamics. You're doing amazing work! Don't let the skeptics impede your progress and waste your time because that's all they're doing. I do understand why you made this video, however. It's simple and it demonstrates the principals you're leveraging to create a pressure differential without compressed air. Keep up the good work. You're the Nikolai Tesla of the 21st century.
No, they are skeptics because they do have a basic understanding of thermodynamics. A pressure differential is a pressure differential whether you increase one end, or reduce the pressure of the other. It's still a differential.
@@iEnergySupply this does take power to pump down a vacuum and also to cool and heat each chamber. I think its neat though, hopefully you find out a practicle scalable solution
how do you think your turbine system would react in spaces in the vacuum,, you would technically not need a vacuum pump as the vacuum is always present ..???
@@iEnergySupply are there any other molecular compounds that you can dope the water with to lower the temperature differential further? Thinking salt or something like manganese dioxide. Just thinking If you can lower the boiling temperature differential further you can get the same reaction at a lower cost of energy input. There fore increased energy output
So all you really need is the cold end to be a little bit higher than the hot end and a siphon tube with a valve at the bottom of the cold chamber to return the liquid water to the hot side to reset the system for the next run. You probably also don't need a high vacuum pump since steam will displace all other gasses in the system, all you have to do is heat the system until the lines are purged. A liquid with a lower boiling point could also be used to increase the efficiency.
you got it, although I think water makes for the best working fluid, because the vacuum on the condenser is much higher at higher temperatures. We still need more testing to confirm this though.
Efficiency trough simplicity, excellent work. Is the actual turbine prototype final? Out of the airbearings would you improve something else? I would like to let one manufacture based on your CAD project, if ready for sale/share. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with the universe
right now we have to do testing to make sure the turbine is the correct size for a 3 kw system, we may need to go bigger, but we are satisficed with the design, so it can be simply scaled up. It's available on our patreon. patreon.com/ienergysupply
I paid for his patreon & I noticed he's had his analytical equipment for a few months now. But a few days ago he said he has finished with 9 videos which includes all data that he will soon be sharing. He just needs to finish up editing the videos. The first people to see these videos will be his patrons. Thus far I've had to pay $25 to see a short preview.
When you evacuate with the vacuum pump: do you evacuate both sides at the same time? Do you maintain equal temp during evacuation? Does the pump cause the water to boil during evacuation?
very good demonstration, thank you alot , i am very curios about the electrostatics. Probably by adding a high voltage electrode mesh at the beginning of the vaporizer side, to repell back the positive charges, and therby only allow negative charges to pass, the effect could be enhanced, and probably a high voltage builds up between the vaporizer and condenser. Would probably work in parallel to the tesla turbine running to pull out some extra sparks. Not sure about the conductivity of the steam though.
Classic case of thermodynamics, as the energy within the system is not the vapor pressure inside the bottles, but is instead based upon a combination of system thermal equilibrium and H2O temperature behavior in a vacuum. Nice. How long total before equilibrium is reached, considering that the water vapor from tank to tank is the heat transport method? Ultimately, aluminum tanks on both sides would be ideal as aluminum conducts heat far better than glass. But then again, you would get more vapor, but it would also reduce time until equilibrium is reached. I like your concept, as it is a lot safer than actual steam boilers.
wow, you understand the system quite well. I've come a long way since this video. I will be using sand to store the heat energy now, and piping as heat exchangers to extract the heat energy.
Hi Jeremiah, do you know what's wrong with the patreon - cannot pay for membership via paypal... Could you check it out? Maybe others are trying too without the success?
What do you estimate the minimum temperate differential to be to run at say 25% efficiency ? Based roughly on your experience so far without insulating or refinements . Crude estimate .
@@12knut You simply reverse it. With a few one way valves in the mix, which tank was hot and which was cold wouldn't matter. So you switch around a few valves with your heat exchanger whenever the water levels get too low.
Jeremiah; please do not let anyone distract you with negative comments. It has taken from the time of Tesla until now for someone (you) to explain the hurricane in a hat (the turbine pump in a cryoferous system. What you have done here, in demonstrating Tesla's most prized technology, should win a Nobel Prize (having raised the awareness of the populace). We all should join Jeremiah's Patreon page and support his work. He is showing how we clean the planet and move to a resource based economy, verses the diabolical fiat currency based economic structure used to harvest human capital at all cost. Jeremiah has unlocked the secrets to a self-sustaining generator that produces electricity, fresh water, and hydrogen without reoccurring cost. Think of the implications on unemployment when the people can produce and distribute energy locally, verses enriching those who would enslave.
gosh, thank you for such kind words! Yeah I have learned to not let the negative comments bother me too much, and I even leave them on the channel so people can see the responses to them.
What if you added a "butt" like a very small o-ring (w/ inner diameter 0.01), based on my knowledge of flow 2 butts on the cold side (condenser side.) On the very bottom submerged bellow the water. The bars atm. of the water will help keep vacuum 2
If you use pre vacum in a cocun you will brakes the internal filaments and you can have good good stuff. The science is you don use heat and hay pressures that's make heat.
Ok so let me get this right. You need heat to maintain a certain temperature in the hot boiler, and a way to keep the cold boiler a particular temperature...and also a vacuum pump to charge it each time a cycle has happened....What is the expected net power output vs power required to get the thing working?
The point of the demonstration is to show the effect of vacuum and temperature on waters boiling point that they aim to manipulate with the tesla turbine. Its just to show the medium carrying the energy to the turbine. When you add the turbine it apparently cools the vapour so effectively that's its cooler than ambient air, this is crucial to maintain the cycle, if this isn't happening then the premise for the system falls apart. Its important to remember that no other turbine does this, this one fact is where it all hinges. So you can extract rotational energy and maintain the vacuum/temperature difference for the cycle to run. Well see what happens maybe it works?
@@jeffjefferson3364 You didn't really respond to my comments. If the system is reliant on the temperature differences of the boilers then there is a chunk of energy gone already. I hope they have been testing the turbine under loads and making sure they can produce a net energy which is half decent compared to what is already available. I can't see this producing a attractive net energy, if it even works in the real world. Sorry but thats my opinion, maybe I'm wrong? Time will tell.
once you connect the two tanks together with a pump and a one way valve the vacuum pump never needs to be used again, it is only used one time to prime the system. Also if the boiler is large enough it becomes a battery, and does need to be recharged using the sun or some other heat source. Sorry for late response, comments are coming in like crazy.
Would anyone know what the ideal disk gap is for water? If you were to use the Turbine as a water pump? I think for vapor it's 0.4mm, for water it would need to be wider, but I don't know how much more
for water you need much larger spacing. 1/8" would be good for water, and make sure the side walls of the casing are at least 1/8" away from the rotor end plates. This is my estimate because I've never built one.
Seriously, you take the temperatures, then completely change the setup? Are you claiming that the trickle of vapour will produce more energy than the vacuum pump, the freezer, and the kettle to boil the water? It's a fun demo of how dropping pressure lowers the boiling point. I think the telling bit though was after a few moments of operation, when the temperatures had clearly not equalised "lets put some more hot water in there" was the next step.
No one is claiming over-unity in this video. It’s a simple demonstration of a heat pump with water being the transfer medium where in the future the OP plans on using the sun as the hot sink and the earth as the cold sink with a lowered vapor point being reached with a partial vacuum being introduced then maintained primarily by a Tesla turbine combination pump which so happens to be well suited for high vapor fluids and other turbines are not.
@@ScarboroughSt no, the claim was it would continue until the temperatures equalised, it didn't, and the Tesla turbine is to extract power, not maintain pressure, so will cause a back pressure on the hot side, reducing the partial vacuum. The water vapour will reduce the vacuum until there is non. They are demonstrating that boiling water can be used to generate power, just like every coal, gas and nuclear power station ever. Innovation in providing the heat, or cooling, or how to use the Tesla turbine would be great, as long as it improved efficiency, but this doesn't seem to be doing that at the moment. It seems to be focussed on using a vacuum, which will need to be constantly replenished when it's the pressure differential that is important. A vacuum can only give you an extra temperature differential of 1 atmosphere. What might be interesting would be a comparison of the difference in energy input/output if the energy used to create the vacuum was used to increase pressure (by heating the hot side, or cooling the cold side) rather than pulling a vacuum which won't last (can't last, the water will evaporate to fill it until the water isn't evaporating at an accelerated rate any more).
The key to understanding how it works is recognizing that at the same pressure, the refrigerant boils at a much lower temperature than water. This is a critical concept to understanding how the refrigeration cycle works, so if that went by too fast, read it again and think about it for a minute. For example the refrigerant commonly used in refrigerators boils between 40° and 50°F as compared to water's boiling point of 212°F.. you can use this for your cold fluid turbine compress it or not. I just think that the added heat would help you out. If it turns into a liquid after it leaves the turbine than all you have to do is is place an evaporator coil out side in the heat with a black Mat placed on top of it. Be it plastic or what ever.
your absolutely correct, I would be using a different fluid but I can't find a good one for the materials I am using. Do you know of a refrigerant that doesn't compromise lexan? Also, the turbine preforms better when the pressure in the condenser is at it's lowest. With a coolant that boils at lower temperatures, the pressure in the condenser and at the exhaust of the turbine will be much higher. Despite all that, I will be testing with different coolants in the future.
@@iEnergySupply you do not need a condenser. Your turbine acts as an expansion valve. The only thing I cannot figure out is how to move the fluid from the turbine to the heatexchanger, but you could always put a single stage tesla pump with a small DC motor of high rpm. The heat exchanger acts like your evaporator, as long as the fluid surrounding the refrigerant is warmer than the refrigerant than it will boil, creating your vapor point. Send that into an accumulator, and allow the pressure to build until you can transfer the refrigerant to your turbine. There is no telling if this will work because who knows how cold the freon will actually get, but it sounds good!!! And, I do not know what type of thermoplastic you could use, but they do have an LCP that was tested, for 30 days at 127 degrees Celsius this is a high temperature thermoplastic.
Why do you even need a condenser when your turbine is the super cooling effect. The nozzle in your turbine acts like an expansion valve. That is the reason why the air passed over the coils in your condenser is cooler than the freon to force it into a liquid phase, but you have a cold steam turbine, so if it comes out as a liquid after it leaves the turbine than that is all you need is the pump to take it back to the evaporator where there is another expansion valve, and the second evaporator is in an outside environment collecting the heat from the sun to vaporize your refrigerant. Where than it is sent to a holding tank to build up the pressure needed to power your turbine, but none of this works if your turbine leaks because low refrigerant equals the freeze, and to much refrigerant equates to you baking in your house.
@@iEnergySupply at what stage does your turbine turn your cold steam into water because if all you have to do is add stages than why could not you add two compression stages to every one turbine phase than add a heat strip, and a fan to blow the hot air over your turbine, and than it is steam again because you only need the water to reach 70 degrees; this is only theory. Have you ever herd of a hair and pin heat exchanger, but if we are talking about cycles to where the sun's energy is used as your evaporator which is alot hotter than the air that is pushed over the evaporator coil; you could always add a compressor as a whole sperate cycle to heat your water; with a recirculation valve it is very possible to re run the water as many times as need be until it gets hot enough to turn your water into vapor your tesla pump should keep the vacuum on the system. It should not take but at most three times. This is just the start. You can worry about the power consumption later after you have the complete system, but like I told Charlie once you had one of them going than you are hooked up in series where as the power produced as long as it is double what is used would make up for it with energy produced, for the grid which also equates to the load being taken off your equipment; the way to go happens to be DC power because the AC power does not damage your equipment also you need to look up what you can on POE oils if you are deciding to use a compressor.
Ok I get hot reservoir leads to + atm and cold is going to give you a - to atm leading to airflow and guessing mid line is an intake from a venturi effect but how are you measuring efficiency and why no regenerator?
We won't actually be using the venturi effect with this set up. We will add the regenerator later. With our new analytical equipment we will measure the efficiency of the system.
So how much if a temperature difference do you need? Because I think a geo thermal loop would work flawless. Temperature underground stays constant so you could capitalize that temperature difference from surface to underground. Also do you need water in the cold side or just the temperature difference?
just a temperature differential is required. So far we got 400 watts with a crude test that needed 100 degrees f difference, but this will be greatly reduced with faster speeds, as we will show soon.
It sounds like you want to use a pump to feed the exhaust from the turbine into the supply side(hot side)? with a long geo thermal ground loop and if you maintain rpm to keep your refrigerant colder then the ground temperature and feed back to the supply. you might possibly have a really long run cycle or extend it even more. And it would be a complete closed system that requires no daylight to generate power. Although you might need to run something other than water to achieve this.
chemists have been using vacuum distillation for a couple centuries to distil low boiling point susceptible compounds, cool. my one question is how much head can use expect from said steam? turbines rely on not only flow but also pressure no? inertia and all? im massively ignorant of this stuff and thatss why im asking.
@@Rhannmah You actually loose energy sending water vapor to a higher elevation. Improving on this demonstration one would have two heat exchangers. one as the boiler where they add heat, and one as the condenser where the disipate the heat. Below each heat exchanger are chambers to hold a sufficiently large volume of water, and a thin pipe connecting the two. And between the heat exchangers is a turbine turning a generator. As a load is put on the generator it transfers the load to the turbine and this creates back pressure in the boiler heat exchanger pushing the water down some and into the condenser collector chamber. Untill an equilibrium is met where the back pressure equals the weight of water pushed down. Instead of relying solely on gravity and the weight of a colum of water to generate a limited amount of pressure on the turbine, one could use a pump with check valves. Yes using a pump uses energy but it's much less energy to generate pressure with a small volume of water than is extracted from the movement of heat energy with water boiling at one end and condensing at the other. And a pump will be much more condensed in size than relying on significant elevation differences.
@@Rhannmah the water vapor presses against a turbine under load and 1 meter of water on the boiler side are the same and both are constrained by the weight of 1 meter of water. With such a relatively low pressure on the turbine, it is ok for lab demonstrations, or may be low power harvesting, but otherwise not much useful. In the realm of low power, like say residential, it's most likely one would want to use solar thermal for the boiler side, on their roof, but does one really want to add the condensor at a higher elevation than the roof? It is possible to reserve the top half of ones roof for a condensor, but they would be limiting the solar thermal collector area to half of the roof if the condensor were placed on the roof.
If both containers are under equal negative pressure, both containers would boil without a temperature difference. There is simply no transfer of energy or mass of any kind. How about installing a flow meter between those containers to show or not, what is being transferred?
@@iEnergySupply In this video you did pull a vacuum on both containers, right? If so then the boiling point of water is only changed by the difference in temperature. It appears to me that you only pull enough vacuum to allow the warmer container to boil. By lowering the temperature of the second container, it takes more negative pressure "vacuum" to bring that container to boil. This is why water vapor condenses instead of remaining in a gaseous state. Anyway a simple flow meter would go a long way to verify what you are saying.
@@travisarnett9558 You understand. I'm not worried about satisficing everyone, I quickly throw these videos out to do the best I can with what little time I have. I can't spend too much time trying to convince people that simple physics are at play.
Lot of people here in comments seems confused. So lets throw some terms and numbers. The Carnot efficiency determines the maximum efficiency that you can get from the heat cycle like you see on the video. It purely depends on the absolute temperature difference on the hot and cold side (1- (Tmin/Tmax)). Here on video i see 139 F = 332.15 K on hot side and 37C = 310.15K on cold (funny how the units are switched). Thats about 6.6% maximum potential efficiency of energy convertion (which is only theoretical and never reachable). But why not, lets add a tesla turbine to it and lets be very very optimistic and say that it has an isentropic efficiency of 60% and everything else is optimal. Then the overall energy conversion efficiency would be almost 4%! But more likely much lower. But fuck it, Im gonna build it anyways on my offshore hut, just put a 1kW heater to keep the water boiling at 90C and assuming its cold outisde so I have 30C in my condense, then and I can get around 90W in electricty back! Almost enough to keep my 2 lights on! Sure I can scale it up, maybe for 10kW heater, then I could get back 900W, which is more interesting. In this scenarion the efficiency will be 9%, because Im not considering the closed cycle, where I would need to add up the energy required for pumping the condensed water back to evaporator at slightly higher pressure. There are better liquids like Refrigerants as well as better turbines, that could utilize this low potential temperatures and they are commonly used in Organic Rankin cycles (ORC). Its nothing new and this field is quite well researched. Well designed ORC's could reach energy conversion efficiencies up to 20%.
@@joshuanorris9785 It just depends on your needs, expectations and price you are willing to pay. For each there bunch of solutions. This project seems like something to do for fun since you can DIY most of it, but at the end it is not worth it.
@@radomirfilip8741 Since natural gas is 3x cheaper than electricity where i'm from I was hoping that I could use this to convert natural gas into electricity.. But if it's not efficient then what's the point? I also have A LOT of waste heat from my business that i'm looking to convert back into electricity & am seeking the best approach.. Thus far I see this as the best option. Any ideas?
@@joshuanorris9785 As the current state of art, the ORC cycles are thus far the best for converting low potential heat into the electricity. But it depends on how much waste heat is available and at what temperature level to make sense of it economically.
But does the energy required to heat and cool the water (make ice) exceed the energy generated from the turbine? Or, are you utilizing an external source of energy (e.g., solar) to heat the water?
I love these small demonstrations but dont take your eye off the prize. There will always be naysayers, no matter what you do. Your time and more important, energy, are better spent on advancing to th end goal or spending time with friends and family. Keep up the great work, thanks
absolutely, and another thing people need to understand is reshearch and development takes time, you can't get everything right the first time but people like to see the progress as we go. I just ignore the nay Sayers.
I am a big fan of your work. I am thrilled to see what you come up with soon. Have you tried any turbine designs other than Tesla? Just curious if the Tesla is the most efficact in terms of amount of fluid needed.
I have tried many design's and have a bladed one I will be testing in the future. I tested in the past and it was extremely powerful. But for now we are doing bladeless turbines.
first time the water is put in the vacuum, a lot of dissolved oxygen will come out (eg why fish can breathe under water). Wonder if the system could me made more efficient if that initial oxygen was removed.
I understand the working fluid in a heat pipe can move as fast as the speed of sound in that medium. You might take note of hot side temp cold side temp and rate of water transfer. You might then determin the amount of heat energy per second it can transfer.
Where did you go? Please give us an update. You would get more patrons if you at least gave us a sneak peek of what you've been up to. Hope you're not being threatened...
Ok so I’m going to ask what’s probably a dumb question but even dumb questions should get asked right…. So as I understand it the hot side… not particularly hot mind you only needs to be above the boiling point of the water in a vacuum. This will give you the cold steam and the flow. The cold side needs to be cold enough to condense the steam back into liquid. Eventually I assume if you keep adding heat to the hot side all the water will move to the cold side…. Would it be possible to connect the the two vessels together so the hot side would never run dry? Making it a closed loop? Might need to be a deep long loop…. But in my mind it should work…..
Do you constantly heat the left side to keep the temperature difference at a certain level? Or what is the red plate/box under the left bucket? Super nice and easy demonstration, thanks so much! :)
it only needs to be heated once in a while until the thermal energy in the water battery is discharged the more water you have the more energy you can store. It can be heated with any source of heat, primarily thermal heat panels which can be up to 97% efficient.
It would be interesting to measure the energy spent to create the vacuum and that obtained during the pressure rebalancing phase. Sun and snow seem to be the key to everything. Pretty awesome!
once you connect the two tanks together with a pump and a one way valve the vacuum pump never needs to be used again, it is only used one time to prime the system.
@@DaxsDad Let me clear up how this works for you. Once the air is removed by use of the vacuum pump there's only water left in the system, both gas and liquid phase. The vacuum pump does not need to be used again as long as the system is airtight, because there's no air to remove, only water and water vapor. The energy in this system does not arise from nothing. The energy put into this system is heat energy from the warm water on the left. The vacuum lowers the boiling point of water, so warm water below 100C is enough to cause it to boil aka convert water from liquid to gas phase. The flask on the right is cooled to below the boiling point under that vacuum, causing the water vapor to condensate. Water takes up roughly 1000 times the volume in gas phase compared to liquid phase. So when it condenses on the cold side that water vapor coming over from the warm side now takes up 1000 times less volume, this keeps pulling a vacuum on the warm side causing more and more to boil over to the cold side. This process will continue until either the temperature on both sides are the same or the warm side contains no more water to boil. If we imagined this setup, but the warm and cold side are continuously supplied with fresh warm and cold water, then it will continue to boil over until the warm flask has no liquid left in it. At that point you can run cold water on the warm side and vice versa to continue the process in reverse. Now all you need is a turbine in the pipe going between the flasks. The flow of the water vapor will make it spin. Effectively converting heat energy into kinetic energy. So you see, the vacuum IS NOT what gives this system energy. It is the heat energy applied on the left flask. In fact you can build a fully functional setup like this without even putting the system under a vacuum, just sealing it up. The difference is just that you'll need to heat the left flask to 100C to make it boil, this will create steam which will condense in the cool flask and this continues as long as the left flask is heated and has liquid water left in it. Doing it under a vacuum is probably just more efficient and easier to work with (don't need a scalding hot heat source). So if anyone doesn't understand the laws of thermodynamics here it's you. This is simple physics used every single day in numerous applications worldwide. Heat pipes work on this principle, they're just hollow copper pipes with a little bit of water under a vacuum. Heat one side, the water vaporizes/boils, flows to the colder side and condenses. Learn some actual physics before you go on the internet and make a fool of yourself.
@@DaxsDad You didn't pass basic physics and chemistry in school did you? I suggest you read up and learn more before making an utter fool of yourself. There is no free energy here, there is no perpetual motion. There just is a more practical range of temperatures, at the cost of having to put it under a vacuum, at least once, if we assume no leaks.
@@MikaelIsaksson > There is no free energy here Exactly, the energy comes from the heat difference between 2 chambers, cmon do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
@@DaxsDad This isn't free energy at all. The only real reason he's introducing a vacuum here is to lower the boiling temperature of the water so that you can safely use the system in or near the home. It also allows you to use a wider variety of materials that might not withstand high temperatures. Additionally by reducing the boiling point it means your working in an overall lower temperature differential band, the temperature differential scalar value would be the same, but it means we can work closer to ambient temperatures for our condenser. Another benefit is that by operating in a lower temperature band the rate of heat loss to the atmosphere is reduced, as the greater the temperature differential the faster the rate at which the heat transfer will occur. It also means standard insulation can be used in conjunction with the system as you won't need high temperature rated material as previously mentioned. Also operating below 100C is a very smart move as most regulations around boilers and what not don't come into play till you go above 100C, or a certain pressure, by working below this it makes it much easier to get into market as well. There's nothing particularly ground breaking about this either, this is all just simple physics. The real triumph here is that this turbine unlike other more conventional designs is much simpler in design for most of the primary components, and is compact compared to traditional counterparts, which makes it ideal for off grid or microgrid applications. For those of us in Northern climbs as well a system like this is much more sensible to use than a solar array. Especially when the outdoor temperature is -20C on a regular basis. If the temperature differential was great enough you could probably run the turbine off the 23C ambient temperature of the home, the result of doing so however would be robbing your home of heat to power the turbine which would be a pointless venture, as is why you'd probably want a separate source of energy to heat up the boiler side. But that too is the benefit as others have stated, you can use many different methods to heat your boiler, and you can probably use solar collectors during the day to heat the boiler and then at night use the stored energy to generate power, the additional benefit there being that at night your condenser would be at a lower temperature and increase your overall differential, especially where this is under vacuum the boiler side can be closer to ambient temperature, which reduces the rate of heat loss throughout the day to the atmosphere. If you also dug down far enough, the temperature of the ground stays above freezing, so you could also use the earth as a source of heat too, like a geothermal heat pump. Though I suspect that would be overly expensive for the gains compared to a simple boiler design with a solar water heater.
@@iEnergySupply with a heat pump you could concentrate ground heat and use this system. The ground a foot down or so is a constant temperature, its basically the yearly average temperature... I've seen people use the ground heat to heat greenhouses here on TH-cam and they were able to make it a constant steady temp that was suitable to grow oranges in a northern climate
I'm sorry but can't see any pressure differential between the two containers and it would of been easy to show with two vacuum gauges or with a tig welder flow meter
Pretty basic thermodynamics. As the "hot" vapor condenses, it maintains the vacuum in the condenser because the non-condensable gases have been removed. The vast majority of steam-driven turbines use this to increase efficiency. If you pump the condensate back to the boiler and continue adding energy (heat), the reaction will continue. If the energy produced by the turbine/generator is greater than the energy added to the system by the pump, then you have a self-sustaining system, given the heat source is external. ie. Solar, Nuclear, Natural Gas, Coal, Oil, etc. I'd love to see a video where you have a heat source for the boiler and a pump to recirculate the condensate.
Yeah this video was mainly for all the people thinking I was using compressed air. They also thought the vacuum pump would take too much energy to evacuate the system then I would get from the water.
Very curious, Jake, have you used such a turbine with scuba breathing systems? I would very much approve of your assistance in this area for an air vehicle build.
Now what you need to do is pickup a cheap 5000btu window Air Conditioner for $120 from Walmart and strip it dow to merge the evaporator (cold coil) in your cold bucket and the rear condenser coil (hot coil) in your hot bucket. If your Tesla turbines generator can maintain a 400 watts output then that’s all you’ll need to run a 5000btu AC (heat pump). With this combination you will achieve a self looped device which the Law of Conservation of Energy says is not possible. A Heat Pump (air conditioner) has COP of around 4 so the 400 watts of electric power input will actually be closer to 1500 Watts of heat energy, so be careful since it could make a much great Delta (temperature differential) then what you presently working with and you may get in a runaway condition where the turbine may explode. So maybe a dehumidifier or even a small refrigerator heat pump may be safer to start with.
Great idea!!! The turbine can easily produce 400 watts.
@@user-db9lz2yl7i Yeah I have no idea what the result would be but it needs to be tested.
I agree with the heat pump idea. Please do try this. And be safe, always wear your safety glasses :)
One aspect of this idea is that the Tesla turbine helps lower the temperature of the water vapor on its way to the condenser and thus lowers the heat load on the heat pump which lowers the wattage needed by the heat pump to finish condensing the water vapor.
yo luc, in that case it would achieve a slightly *better power reclamation* to use a mechanical *mostly magnetic motor* in a powered stirling cycle cold end configuration.
make it a dual cycle for both a hot left/top end & super cooled cold right/bottom zones, profit... robs conductive low power12v paint on internal heaters are an obvious best use case here to.
This is the best demonstration of basic physics showing the fluid dynamics of hot rushing to meet cold as seen in any tornado or hurricane when a warm front collides with a cold front.
Thanks!
Alot of energy goes into cooling the ice and heating the water to get the flowing between them. What is the point?
Not exactly a science fair attraction 🥱 potatoes at least light bulbs 🤷🏽
This is honestly one of the better ideas to generate power I've seen with a low barrier to entry.
Thanks! It should clear up some doubts too, people were saying I was using compressed air, and that the vacuum pump was going to take more energy then the water had to supply in the form of heat.
@@iEnergySupply You just are very smart. I too try to find examples to help get past the set in stone thinking we find too much of. You are a great man to teach. But rember evil money people are watching. Be careful. I have seen money offered to the helpful when the market is sales base
" Threatened " ...Thank you for boldly helping all of us. We need you to write a simple picture book. Excellent job so far.... Small self reliance knowledge strarted this country.
I like what you are about.
This is amazing! This is by far the coolest and most potentially powerful heat engine I've seen. I discovered this channel while researching advancing diy energy projects and was so excited to see this new progress. If I could recommend another channel that covers similarly innovative ideas to this community, Robert Murray Smith does some incredible work with applied chemistry, heat engines, graphene, and generation. Great work on this project and best wishes for everyone!
@@aarondingus3548 Thank you! I'm curious where you found the channel? was it through youtube? or another sight?
@@iEnergySupplyThanks for the reply! It was through TH-cam I found both channels. Neither channel showed up in my recommended, I'm pretty sure they were both direct search results. Channels like this are my favorite bc they push my understanding of current possibilities further. Unfortunately, the YT algorithm still shows me horrible recommendations, but interesting videos like these make up for that!
What if we use a refrigerant instead of water. One that fully condenses around 10c. Bury the recovery chamber 20ft and heat the hot side in a solar oven. The only thing powered is the recovery pump, and if its not condensing anything it should be pretty low power.
So i'm implementing this idea on my personal house grid with, 500L tanks, i use wood to heat my house and shop in the winter (canada)and scavenge that heat. Im using a plc to control cycle, temperature and pressure. Its linked to a solar collector as well in the summer. I have a return pump that cycles cold back to hot in intervals without drying the hot completely. The cold tank is buried in the ground after a condenser.
Ive been making rotor after rotor for the last 6 months trying to find peak efficiency ,brute forcing it. But i got smart called a friend who wrote me a simple ai to try different cycle parameters over and over. Blew up twice. So i use a large cast stainless block as the rotor housing. It helps vibration harmonics. Now for the generator side, permanent magnet off the shelf high speed 5kw rc motor. Biggest logistical nightmare is not leaking vacuum over time with expansion and contraction of the piping. Basically im telling you this already works. Just scale up your tanks and pipe diameter, beef up your housings and worry about going to 99% efficient after. I first saw your concept a year ago, I've had an in use system for 6 months using the sun ,the ground and wood heat. Runs in cycles charging a bank. If you take out the trial and error, this only takes about 5k$ to impliment provided you have a CNC. So not trying to steal your thunder, but if you dont set up a full working system soon, Ill just make a video of mine.
We have the entire working system now, and all the analytical equipment to show exactly what is going on. Thanks for telling about your system, I wish you would make a video, I would love to see your system!!
The synergy of more videos seems helpful to even the existing channels.
Yes, please show your video, this will help the community.
Sure with consent of IEnergysupply. This is their idea and they made it public. I copied their research and ideas, as far as im concerned they own this IP and i wont step on them.(morals). But sure! come winter when its in full swing. Ill post a video privately to IEnergysupply and they can choose to post. ? Sound fair?
@@saleemcarr9501 it's seems like they don't mind you posting it right away if you'd like.
it just makes sense. Everything can travel uninhibited and almost totally friction free in a vacuum, therefore much much lower temperatures would work great. Imagine not having to "boil" water but just warm it. So as long as there is a temperature differential, the water "boils". This generator here would easily provide whatever it would take to maintain the temperature difference and supply. Brilliant!
thanks! you have the idea :)
this is awesome work
Thanks I like to consider it artwork sometimes :)
Simple and clever design. What was use to seal the hose to the tops of the jars? Flex-seal?
Jb weld.
I could tell it was jb from a mile away. Epoxy is the shit.
@@chrisgosselin6399 right? I found a new can of Flex Seal in a dumpster, tried it a few times & every time it failed spectacularly, same with the Flex Seal tape, the garbage won't even stick to it's self, literally spit & bazooka Joe bubble gum will out spec Flex Seal in every measurable metric ( ՞ਊ ՞）
Oh, and ya JB Weld is the 🥇 standard followed by 🦆 & 🦍 pending applicable circumstance
What an awesome demonstration. Thank you for sharing your findings with us all.
I use a wood fired out door boiler for heat in the winter. I have been entertaining the idea of a stainless pipe in the boiler to make flash steam and turn a turbine.
5-6 months of nearly “free” energy to take advantage of.
Looks like your all set up, now a good turbine is all you need. Yeah the energy is free from the sun but the equipment to collect it isn't free.
Funny because your situation is exactly the reason I have been researching things for a long while now. I look at my boiler every winter thinking to myself damn that's a lot energy not being further harnessed in some fashion or another. It's literally our hard ass work going straight out the chimney 24/7. LOL
@@510Redneck currently working on a secondary chimney boiler to catch some of the heat being blown out the stack. At night when she’s under full burn I can see 12” of glowing orange flame standing from the top. Sheesh. What a waste.
What the best way of replicating a condenser cold side if you live in a generally warm area? is it burying it in the ground?
Could this be used to desalinate sea water? Say, if you had tanks of sea water being heated by the sun for your "hot" side (just paint them black), would the water that condenses in the "cold" side be fresh water? The sea water tanks would have to be emptied of brine and refilled every now and then with new sea water as the water evaporates. If the condenser water would be drinkable, and the salt, minerals, etc. in the sea water wouldn't mess with the system somehow, this would be a fantastic way to desalinate water, especially if you're able to extract energy from the system with a Tesla turbine. Current methods of desalination are extremely energy-intensive. A sea water desalination system that actually produced energy would be a huge breakthrough.
it's absolutely possible, makes you wonder why it's not being used today.
Hey bud how have you been!! I'm almost ready to get back working on my research and development and how much would you charge for that working Tesla turbine we were talking about? For my prototype fusion reactor a true engineer cannot ignore the the efficiency of the Tesla turbine, over a standard turbine inside of a rankin cycle system
I have a tesla turbine for sale soon, what kind of temperatures were you thinking of using?
@@iEnergySupply sorry I meant 300° c for the working fluid, I've been doing a lot of calculations lately, I tend to mix my numbers up. 700° c is the surface temperature of the outside of the heat exchanger inside the vacuum.
I'm very curious in your project Numa! I'll subscribe to see an update. Hope to see one soon!
Is the guage on the cold side of the turbine reading micrometers of mercury?
It would with lower with lower temperatures but water vapor pressure will always be there and keep the vacuum from getting super low
@@iEnergySupply - what pressure do you pump it down to, to allow the setup to run?
@@orcoastgreenman I get all of the air out of the system, on the vacuum gets low enough it automatically starts pumping water vapor. At which point the the air is completely out of the system, I'm not sure. That would have to be studied later on, but you can look up the vapor pressure of water at different temperatures.
Could you not use the Tesla turbine as the expansion valve in a traditional ac system?
You could, this would give you electricity to put back into your compressor.
Could you check a few simultaneous parameters during a test run: 1) the amount of water traveling from the boiler to the condenser per unit of time 2) the temperature of the boiler 3) the temperature of the condenser 4) the wattage output of the generator 5) the temperature leaving the Tesla turbine
We will be testing as many parameters as we can. we want to boil out 350 gallons and calculate the total water used. Temperature in, out of the turbine as well, we have so many tests to do, and finally some good testing equipment to do it with.
@@iEnergySupply If my calcualtions are correct, boiling 350 gallons of water against a vacuum would be about 3 million BTU of refrigeration due to the latent heat of vaporization. Are you planning on using an external heat source to keep the boiler temperature from dropping too much, or just let it evaporate/sublimate slowly from the normal thermal conductivity?
You need about 4,18kJ to heat a litre/kg of water 1 degree celcius - which means that is what you can extract if you put it in.
There is proportional relationship between temperature, pressure and volume - check out the ideal gas law
@@FyaaahS Hi, thanks for your comments. Well stated, the energy entering and leaving are in direct proportion. My interest is how much heat flow (BTUs/hr) is being turned into how much electrical power (KWH)? If I know how much water (lb/hr) is being evaporated the BTUs/hr can be calculated. And if I know the temperature (given) I can calculate the pressure on the high pressure side. I really want to know how much heat energy that is needed to run the Tesla turbine.
What would it take to return the condensate to the hot side by using gravity. Perhaps a passive or spring loaded check valve and a calculated hight differential to maintain a passive return loop.
The ammonia based refrigeration system in rv refrigerators has a gravity return loop. The system uses a pilot light in the form of a propane flame. The size of the flame is what you would get from a bick lighter.
When the sun heats the ocean the ocean water evaporates into the air and travels to a very high altitude. At that point it often condenses. If this condensation water is channeled into a vertical pipe it can be returned to the ocean by way of gravity with a substantial pressure buildup. Work can obviously be extracted as well. No need for a check valve. In the Tesla turbine boiler maybe a float valve would be nice to maintain the water level in the boiler. The Tesla turbine and condenser could just be positioned at a higher elevation compared to the boiler to maintain the pressure difference between the boiler and the condenser.
We used a simple hot water pump.
Also, putting pressure into those glass jugs would be suicidal. Thanks for the demo.
Here is an idea for someone to run the demonstration without a vacuum pump. Create the same setup as you have shown, two suitable jars less than half full of water, airtight tubing with an escape valve between them. Open the valve, place both jugs on heat to get them both boiling (escape valve open!) let the water in both jugs boil to purge the air. Then remove the heat and close the valve, let the jugs cool down.When cool place one jug in hot water bath and one jug in cold water bath and the water should migrate to the cold side. Be careful not to pressurize a glass jug!
Yeah in order to pressurize the boiler, we would need temperatures above 212F or 100c which would require a burner or something. Even at 212 degrees the pressure would be extremely low.
@@iEnergySupply you'd probably blow the hose out of the top if the bottle first.
When's the next release?
Hey Jeremiah is there no bottoms on those glass jars?
I mean are they open to the bottom
closed bottom.
Can you add a psi gauge to show the psi during flow?
just for this small test, we didn't bother with it, stay tuned for all the numbers.
@@iEnergySupply I just subbed, can't wait to see the numbers. Keep doing the great work.
Would it be more efficient, if their were a heat sink just after the turbine and before the condenser tank?
But the energy required to run the vac pump and make the ice cubes?
What happened to the most recent video?
what was the video about?
Cab we power a car with the principle? thanks
Why did you take the other video down?
what was the video about?
I believe a dual trompe would be more practical? When one runs out of pressure, the other goes, and water is replaced into the system that is not currently used.
It actually takes a very long time to use the water because there is so much expansion under vacuum, the water can also easily be pumped into the boiler from the condenser as needed.
so if you put a pump,from condenser , and then pumping back to the boiler, meaning the water cycle over ang over again without adding a water? right?
Carnot cycle right? My question is how do you proposed to maintain the cold side, cold? Good work by the way.
Is this static electricity production related to the other kind of the whardenclif tower?
I read that Iceland power their entire country from a system quite similar to yours, but instead of water they use another substance which changes from liquid to gas very easily.
Upon their prime ministers visit to my country, she commented that their (oceanic) power generators can function with as little as a 5 degree variance between the hot and cold side.
Hope any of the above helps advance what you have here. Good job!
Thank you, I was just watching a documentary about Iceland geothermal power yesterday!! I may use ammonia or some other liquid. We will see if it's necessary, I think water will do for solar thermal energy.
Any updates?
Hello. Could it work with 10-30°C temperature difference like heat pumps - ground to surface ambient temp? I mean - if for e.g. we use existing or altered heat pump system at home to create a vacuum we could only add adequate tesla turbine to generate electricity?
I believe so
@@iEnergySupply Thanks for your reply! I am also thinking: fresnel lens to focus the sunlight to heat the hot side (only to keep it at 60-70° C) and some type of a pipe coil below the ground terminated with the pressure cooker for the cold side for a condenser. How did you come to this idea anyway? It is mind-blowing discovery! I am experimenting with some other patent from Veljko Milkovic (Serbian inventor from Smiljane, too - like Nikola Tesla. There must be some kind of strange radiation over there :D)
So the turbine should ensure the temperature differential last even longer because it is sucking all the energy and creating a colder side and energy vacuum
yeah the more efficient the turbine is the colder the exhaust of the turbine will be.
@@iEnergySupply what state are you guys in?
Excellent demo guys! for new people out there, Bodies of water have weight that causes compression to water lower or central in the body and slows boiling putting a spray nozzle onto the water tank and letting the vacuum suck the water into the evacuated system causes flash vaporization as you have reduced the bodies of water to the smallest size as it reaches open vacuum space aka the piping.
You got it! Thanks for the comment.
how well are those pex lines working out for yall? do they handle the pressure well?
O they are perfect, we have even used them with 212 degree water in the past without any issues.
@@iEnergySupply also, between this demonstration and the demonstration where you use water injected into a compressed air stream a la the boundary layer video, i think youve figured out how to use water as a reaction fuel?
like, in that vid you forced the water to explode or rapidly expand, releasing its latent heat for the tesla turbine to sap. and in this demo you use a little bit of energy in the form the vacuum pump and warm water, but sets off the phase change of the water, releasing it's latent heat for your turbine to sap.
i think this is the turbine answer to the stirling cycle's pistons, i wonder if one of these could be used to liquify air or make fluids super critically cooled.
also if you hadn't seen it, go watch the early slow-mo guys vid where they spin CDs and records so fast that they explode. the CD forms a resonate wave separate from it's rotation before it shatters; i wonder if something similar happens at high speeds in a tesla turbine.
im wondering if those resonate waves create high pressure and low pressure zones inside the turbine that the coanda effect is forcing air into, thus forcing it to rapidly expand and contract hundreds of times before it leaves the turbine, making it so any heat inside the working fluid is dumped into the turbine
So, is what you'r building a kind of closed-cycle system that depends on a naturally available (eg solar) heat source? You've made the comparison to Stirling Cycle closed systems. Does the turbine simply replace the complexity of a Stirling engine?
Also: how adaptable is your design to situations where you have available water pressure, rather than heat? Are there geometric differences in nozzle structure? Finally, are Tesla turbines equally efficient when they switch between driven pump applications, and energy-harvesting applications, for.a given fluid? Thinking here about classic systems for scavenging energy from flowing fluids where a propellor is not always efficient as a turbine...
We have to do more research on the flow of vapor with a long drop like a hill still. I really want to explore that in the future. it's a Stirling engine but more simple and more powerful I believe.
Is it possible to create the vacuum needed without a vacuum pump?
So glad I found this channel!! These are my kind of people!
Thanks!
But how's the ice or hot water reproduced? This is a large stirling, isn't it? (which I've been looking at myself for a while like most have in the last 200 years or so) anyway, I appreciate the video and please keep considering keep things.
One way is to use solar, or a wood stove. Solar heat collectors or solar heat tubes. Geothermal becomes an option as the low temperature differential between outside winter and underground is enough to run the system. Thermal sand batteries will also be an option, all of which I am planning to demonstrate soon.
Why is there so much static building up? Does this happen with compressed air?
Why is the turbine more efficient on steam? Is it because the air is more viscous and is able to turn the disks easier?
Does the steam move quicker then compressed air? How do you build up the pressure if you have to open the valve to make the water boil? As soon as you close the valve the water stops boiling so it's not adding pressure into the pipe?
Sorry for all the questions!
The static is likely from friction from the water vapor moving past the valve. The steam allows a closed loop system and very high vacuum on the exhaust of the turbine which increases efficiency. Water is also more viscus then steam. So far with only a couple psi difference we have achieved 66000 rpm with a load on the turbine.
@@iEnergySupply What makes the most difference to RPM, air pressure or air velocity?
@@iEnergySupply I think I've worked out why the static charge is building up. You have moist air on one side and dry air on the other. When these two meet in the pipe the moist air rushes to the top of the pipe and the cold dry air sinks to the bottom as cold air is more dense. The constant updraft of warm air and the constant down draft of cold air is the same thing that happens in a thunderstorm and it electricity charges the air around it. That electric charge is then conducted into the pipe and eventually your hand. You have to remember that you have 2 layers of air in the pipe and its behaving like a weather front.
@@iEnergySupply what kind power did it make?
If an electro magnetic water pump moves water through a pvc pipe without the use of a mechanical pump, will your pressurized water produce an electric current if you wound a coil around your pvc pipe? Since you feel static electricity, it might work. Like a reverse electro magnetic water pump?
The skeptics you have garnered are only skeptics because they lack basic understanding of thermodynamics. You're doing amazing work! Don't let the skeptics impede your progress and waste your time because that's all they're doing. I do understand why you made this video, however. It's simple and it demonstrates the principals you're leveraging to create a pressure differential without compressed air. Keep up the good work. You're the Nikolai Tesla of the 21st century.
Thank you! Yeah I think it was also important to help everyone understand what is going on.
No, they are skeptics because they do have a basic understanding of thermodynamics. A pressure differential is a pressure differential whether you increase one end, or reduce the pressure of the other. It's still a differential.
@@iEnergySupply this does take power to pump down a vacuum and also to cool and heat each chamber.
I think its neat though, hopefully you find out a practicle scalable solution
@@iEnergySupply I think using this system you could extract geothermal power in a far more safer manner though
Won't you eventually run out of water in the boiler?
Yeah you use a simple pump to recycle the water, but it takes a really long time because in the vacuum the water expands exponentially more.
how do you think your turbine system would react in spaces in the vacuum,, you would technically not need a vacuum pump as the vacuum is always present ..???
it would be extremely efficient, but you would loose all your water, we need to recycle the water.
What is the lowest temperature differential that the water will boil at under vacuum?
40 degrees c
@@iEnergySupply are there any other molecular compounds that you can dope the water with to lower the temperature differential further? Thinking salt or something like manganese dioxide. Just thinking If you can lower the boiling temperature differential further you can get the same reaction at a lower cost of energy input. There fore increased energy output
So all you really need is the cold end to be a little bit higher than the hot end and a siphon tube with a valve at the bottom of the cold chamber to return the liquid water to the hot side to reset the system for the next run. You probably also don't need a high vacuum pump since steam will displace all other gasses in the system, all you have to do is heat the system until the lines are purged. A liquid with a lower boiling point could also be used to increase the efficiency.
you got it, although I think water makes for the best working fluid, because the vacuum on the condenser is much higher at higher temperatures. We still need more testing to confirm this though.
@@iEnergySupply Keep me updated on this. I'd like to have one of these machines when they become practical.
Efficiency trough simplicity, excellent work. Is the actual turbine prototype final? Out of the airbearings would you improve something else? I would like to let one manufacture based on your CAD project, if ready for sale/share. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with the universe
right now we have to do testing to make sure the turbine is the correct size for a 3 kw system, we may need to go bigger, but we are satisficed with the design, so it can be simply scaled up. It's available on our patreon. patreon.com/ienergysupply
BTW, this was very gracious of you to show us all.
Jeez man it's been a while since you've put anything out.
I paid for his patreon & I noticed he's had his analytical equipment for a few months now. But a few days ago he said he has finished with 9 videos which includes all data that he will soon be sharing. He just needs to finish up editing the videos. The first people to see these videos will be his patrons. Thus far I've had to pay $25 to see a short preview.
If it ran on Mercury instead of steam would that increase torque potential
Doesn't the water eventually all end up in the cold side?
who's gonna get the first working cryopherous turbine?? Everyone is working on this I love it! Keep up the good work!
Publishing the video soon :-)
@@iEnergySupply Oooo😁😁😁
When you evacuate with the vacuum pump: do you evacuate both sides at the same time? Do you maintain equal temp during evacuation? Does the pump cause the water to boil during evacuation?
both were evacuated at the same time, but you can do them separately. with warm water, the vacuum pump doesn't need to be as powerful.
where is update???
I hope to have it today
very good demonstration, thank you alot , i am very curios about the electrostatics. Probably by adding a high voltage electrode mesh at the beginning of the vaporizer side, to repell back the positive charges, and therby only allow negative charges to pass, the effect could be enhanced, and probably a high voltage builds up between the vaporizer and condenser. Would probably work in parallel to the tesla turbine running to pull out some extra sparks. Not sure about the conductivity of the steam though.
that would be a really cool experiment!
When the static builds up does it cause a drag on the vapor traveling from the boiler to the condenser?
@@davidcollar4577 Good question, I really want to know the answer to that question. I assume it does.
Classic case of thermodynamics, as the energy within the system is not the vapor pressure inside the bottles, but is instead based upon a combination of system thermal equilibrium and H2O temperature behavior in a vacuum. Nice. How long total before equilibrium is reached, considering that the water vapor from tank to tank is the heat transport method? Ultimately, aluminum tanks on both sides would be ideal as aluminum conducts heat far better than glass. But then again, you would get more vapor, but it would also reduce time until equilibrium is reached. I like your concept, as it is a lot safer than actual steam boilers.
wow, you understand the system quite well. I've come a long way since this video. I will be using sand to store the heat energy now, and piping as heat exchangers to extract the heat energy.
Hi Jeremiah, do you know what's wrong with the patreon - cannot pay for membership via paypal... Could you check it out? Maybe others are trying too without the success?
Thank you for pointing that out, ill look into it.
What do you estimate the minimum temperate differential to be to run at say 25% efficiency ? Based roughly on your experience so far without insulating or refinements . Crude estimate .
What if a heat pump is used
Awesome. Do you intend on making a closed loop system to somehow replenish the water on the hot side?
IRC yes that is the plan.
absolutely
How can it be done without stopping the system?
@@12knut You simply reverse it. With a few one way valves in the mix, which tank was hot and which was cold wouldn't matter. So you switch around a few valves with your heat exchanger whenever the water levels get too low.
Jeremiah; please do not let anyone distract you with negative comments. It has taken from the time of Tesla until now for someone (you) to explain the hurricane in a hat (the turbine pump in a cryoferous system. What you have done here, in demonstrating Tesla's most prized technology, should win a Nobel Prize (having raised the awareness of the populace). We all should join Jeremiah's Patreon page and support his work. He is showing how we clean the planet and move to a resource based economy, verses the diabolical fiat currency based economic structure used to harvest human capital at all cost.
Jeremiah has unlocked the secrets to a self-sustaining generator that produces electricity, fresh water, and hydrogen without reoccurring cost. Think of the implications on unemployment when the people can produce and distribute energy locally, verses enriching those who would enslave.
gosh, thank you for such kind words! Yeah I have learned to not let the negative comments bother me too much, and I even leave them on the channel so people can see the responses to them.
Thank you for spelling cryoferous for me was trying to figure it out!
I'm interested in building something like this to power my home and greenhouse what would that look like? Say 10kw Thanks
I honestly like this idea of cold boiling, but how do you stop the watter from crystalizing in pipes or on turbine ans preentig te flow?
so far we haven't seen freezing cause any issues.
What if you added a "butt" like a very small o-ring (w/ inner diameter 0.01), based on my knowledge of flow 2 butts on the cold side (condenser side.) On the very bottom submerged bellow the water. The bars atm. of the water will help keep vacuum 2
sorry, I'm not sure what you mean.
@@iEnergySupply Same.
Similar to closed loop cannabis extraction process with butane. Under vacuum using hot side and cold side. Interesting
yep, the difference here is just more vacuum with the cold side at warmer temperatures.
If you use pre vacum in a cocun you will brakes the internal filaments and you can have good good stuff. The science is you don use heat and hay pressures that's make heat.
Isn't this the same sort of mechanics that happens when you can boil eggs at room temperature in the Himalayas ?
correct.
Great work!
thanks!
Ok so let me get this right. You need heat to maintain a certain temperature in the hot boiler, and a way to keep the cold boiler a particular temperature...and also a vacuum pump to charge it each time a cycle has happened....What is the expected net power output vs power required to get the thing working?
The point of the demonstration is to show the effect of vacuum and temperature on waters boiling point that they aim to manipulate with the tesla turbine. Its just to show the medium carrying the energy to the turbine.
When you add the turbine it apparently cools the vapour so effectively that's its cooler than ambient air, this is crucial to maintain the cycle, if this isn't happening then the premise for the system falls apart. Its important to remember that no other turbine does this, this one fact is where it all hinges.
So you can extract rotational energy and maintain the vacuum/temperature difference for the cycle to run.
Well see what happens maybe it works?
@@jeffjefferson3364 You didn't really respond to my comments. If the system is reliant on the temperature differences of the boilers then there is a chunk of energy gone already. I hope they have been testing the turbine under loads and making sure they can produce a net energy which is half decent compared to what is already available. I can't see this producing a attractive net energy, if it even works in the real world. Sorry but thats my opinion, maybe I'm wrong? Time will tell.
@@optimusprime699 this is what they are claiming and they say they have the instruments now to prove it. I'm waiting like you.
once you connect the two tanks together with a pump and a one way valve the vacuum pump never needs to be used again, it is only used one time to prime the system. Also if the boiler is large enough it becomes a battery, and does need to be recharged using the sun or some other heat source. Sorry for late response, comments are coming in like crazy.
Would anyone know what the ideal disk gap is for water? If you were to use the Turbine as a water pump? I think for vapor it's 0.4mm, for water it would need to be wider, but I don't know how much more
for water you need much larger spacing. 1/8" would be good for water, and make sure the side walls of the casing are at least 1/8" away from the rotor end plates. This is my estimate because I've never built one.
Seriously, you take the temperatures, then completely change the setup? Are you claiming that the trickle of vapour will produce more energy than the vacuum pump, the freezer, and the kettle to boil the water? It's a fun demo of how dropping pressure lowers the boiling point. I think the telling bit though was after a few moments of operation, when the temperatures had clearly not equalised "lets put some more hot water in there" was the next step.
No one is claiming over-unity in this video. It’s a simple demonstration of a heat pump with water being the transfer medium where in the future the
OP plans on using the sun as the hot sink and the earth as the cold sink with a lowered vapor point being reached with a partial vacuum being introduced then maintained primarily by a Tesla turbine combination pump which so happens to be well suited for high vapor fluids and other turbines are not.
@@ScarboroughSt no, the claim was it would continue until the temperatures equalised, it didn't, and the Tesla turbine is to extract power, not maintain pressure, so will cause a back pressure on the hot side, reducing the partial vacuum. The water vapour will reduce the vacuum until there is non. They are demonstrating that boiling water can be used to generate power, just like every coal, gas and nuclear power station ever. Innovation in providing the heat, or cooling, or how to use the Tesla turbine would be great, as long as it improved efficiency, but this doesn't seem to be doing that at the moment. It seems to be focussed on using a vacuum, which will need to be constantly replenished when it's the pressure differential that is important. A vacuum can only give you an extra temperature differential of 1 atmosphere. What might be interesting would be a comparison of the difference in energy input/output if the energy used to create the vacuum was used to increase pressure (by heating the hot side, or cooling the cold side) rather than pulling a vacuum which won't last (can't last, the water will evaporate to fill it until the water isn't evaporating at an accelerated rate any more).
This is exactly how heat pipes work. Great demo guys
Thanks
Hello!
Do you know anything about pelton tesla hybrid discs? Can you give a test? 😁
Did "the man" get you? Will it be long until you post an update?
The key to understanding how it works is recognizing that at the same pressure, the refrigerant boils at a much lower temperature than water. This is a critical concept to understanding how the refrigeration cycle works, so if that went by too fast, read it again and think about it for a minute. For example the refrigerant commonly used in refrigerators boils between 40° and 50°F as compared to water's boiling point of 212°F.. you can use this for your cold fluid turbine compress it or not. I just think that the added heat would help you out. If it turns into a liquid after it leaves the turbine than all you have to do is is place an evaporator coil out side in the heat with a black Mat placed on top of it. Be it plastic or what ever.
your absolutely correct, I would be using a different fluid but I can't find a good one for the materials I am using. Do you know of a refrigerant that doesn't compromise lexan? Also, the turbine preforms better when the pressure in the condenser is at it's lowest. With a coolant that boils at lower temperatures, the pressure in the condenser and at the exhaust of the turbine will be much higher. Despite all that, I will be testing with different coolants in the future.
@@iEnergySupply you do not need a condenser. Your turbine acts as an expansion valve. The only thing I cannot figure out is how to move the fluid from the turbine to the heatexchanger, but you could always put a single stage tesla pump with a small DC motor of high rpm. The heat exchanger acts like your evaporator, as long as the fluid surrounding the refrigerant is warmer than the refrigerant than it will boil, creating your vapor point. Send that into an accumulator, and allow the pressure to build until you can transfer the refrigerant to your turbine. There is no telling if this will work because who knows how cold the freon will actually get, but it sounds good!!! And, I do not know what type of thermoplastic you could use, but they do have an LCP that was tested, for 30 days at 127 degrees Celsius this is a high temperature thermoplastic.
Why do you even need a condenser when your turbine is the super cooling effect. The nozzle in your turbine acts like an expansion valve. That is the reason why the air passed over the coils in your condenser is cooler than the freon to force it into a liquid phase, but you have a cold steam turbine, so if it comes out as a liquid after it leaves the turbine than that is all you need is the pump to take it back to the evaporator where there is another expansion valve, and the second evaporator is in an outside environment collecting the heat from the sun to vaporize your refrigerant. Where than it is sent to a holding tank to build up the pressure needed to power your turbine, but none of this works if your turbine leaks because low refrigerant equals the freeze, and to much refrigerant equates to you baking in your house.
@@mitchellsmith7868 I believe this is possible, but for turbines this small, I will need to have multiple stages to make it happen.
@@iEnergySupply at what stage does your turbine turn your cold steam into water because if all you have to do is add stages than why could not you add two compression stages to every one turbine phase than add a heat strip, and a fan to blow the hot air over your turbine, and than it is steam again because you only need the water to reach 70 degrees; this is only theory. Have you ever herd of a hair and pin heat exchanger, but if we are talking about cycles to where the sun's energy is used as your evaporator which is alot hotter than the air that is pushed over the evaporator coil; you could always add a compressor as a whole sperate cycle to heat your water; with a recirculation valve it is very possible to re run the water as many times as need be until it gets hot enough to turn your water into vapor your tesla pump should keep the vacuum on the system. It should not take but at most three times. This is just the start. You can worry about the power consumption later after you have the complete system, but like I told Charlie once you had one of them going than you are hooked up in series where as the power produced as long as it is double what is used would make up for it with energy produced, for the grid which also equates to the load being taken off your equipment; the way to go happens to be DC power because the AC power does not damage your equipment also you need to look up what you can on POE oils if you are deciding to use a compressor.
Ok I get hot reservoir leads to + atm and cold is going to give you a - to atm leading to airflow and guessing mid line is an intake from a venturi effect but how are you measuring efficiency and why no regenerator?
We won't actually be using the venturi effect with this set up. We will add the regenerator later. With our new analytical equipment we will measure the efficiency of the system.
So how much if a temperature difference do you need? Because I think a geo thermal loop would work flawless. Temperature underground stays constant so you could capitalize that temperature difference from surface to underground. Also do you need water in the cold side or just the temperature difference?
just a temperature differential is required. So far we got 400 watts with a crude test that needed 100 degrees f difference, but this will be greatly reduced with faster speeds, as we will show soon.
It sounds like you want to use a pump to feed the exhaust from the turbine into the supply side(hot side)? with a long geo thermal ground loop and if you maintain rpm to keep your refrigerant colder then the ground temperature and feed back to the supply. you might possibly have a really long run cycle or extend it even more. And it would be a complete closed system that requires no daylight to generate power. Although you might need to run something other than water to achieve this.
@@iEnergySupply can't wait to see more
Oh explain to me how you removed all those gases with your weak little pump
Connected it, then turned it on.
I have been working on an idea very similar.
I would love to see your work.
@@iEnergySupply messaged on your website.
chemists have been using vacuum distillation for a couple centuries to distil low boiling point susceptible compounds, cool.
my one question is how much head can use expect from said steam? turbines rely on not only flow but also pressure no? inertia and all? im massively ignorant of this stuff and thatss why im asking.
got 400 wats on our small turbine with 212 degree water in the boiler.
When are we getting the next video!? 😆
couple weeks. but it will be available on patreon first. There are already new updates there. Patreon.com/ienergysupply
@@iEnergySupply noooooo🤣 ill see about the patreon don't know if I can wait weeks.
I would love to see this setup with evacuated solar tubes to heat the hot side.
How would you design a cold water return?
@@kreynolds1123 Easy, put the cold basin at higher altitude than the solar tubes and flush it back down when it gets full.
@@Rhannmah You actually loose energy sending water vapor to a higher elevation.
Improving on this demonstration one would have two heat exchangers. one as the boiler where they add heat, and one as the condenser where the disipate the heat. Below each heat exchanger are chambers to hold a sufficiently large volume of water, and a thin pipe connecting the two. And between the heat exchangers is a turbine turning a generator.
As a load is put on the generator it transfers the load to the turbine and this creates back pressure in the boiler heat exchanger pushing the water down some and into the condenser collector chamber. Untill an equilibrium is met where the back pressure equals the weight of water pushed down.
Instead of relying solely on gravity and the weight of a colum of water to generate a limited amount of pressure on the turbine, one could use a pump with check valves.
Yes using a pump uses energy but it's much less energy to generate pressure with a small volume of water than is extracted from the movement of heat energy with water boiling at one end and condensing at the other. And a pump will be much more condensed in size than relying on significant elevation differences.
@@kreynolds1123 but you don't need significant elevation differences, even a height of one meter would be more than enough to have a complete cycle.
@@Rhannmah the water vapor presses against a turbine under load and 1 meter of water on the boiler side are the same and both are constrained by the weight of 1 meter of water. With such a relatively low pressure on the turbine, it is ok for lab demonstrations, or may be low power harvesting, but otherwise not much useful.
In the realm of low power, like say residential, it's most likely one would want to use solar thermal for the boiler side, on their roof, but does one really want to add the condensor at a higher elevation than the roof? It is possible to reserve the top half of ones roof for a condensor, but they would be limiting the solar thermal collector area to half of the roof if the condensor were placed on the roof.
If both containers are under equal negative pressure, both containers would boil without a temperature difference. There is simply no transfer of energy or mass of any kind. How about installing a flow meter between those containers to show or not, what is being transferred?
they are not equal in pressure, because they are not equal in temperature. Pressure is directly related to temperature.
@@iEnergySupply In this video you did pull a vacuum on both containers, right? If so then the boiling point of water is only changed by the difference in temperature. It appears to me that you only pull enough vacuum to allow the warmer container to boil. By lowering the temperature of the second container, it takes more negative pressure "vacuum" to bring that container to boil. This is why water vapor condenses instead of remaining in a gaseous state. Anyway a simple flow meter would go a long way to verify what you are saying.
@@travisarnett9558 You understand. I'm not worried about satisficing everyone, I quickly throw these videos out to do the best I can with what little time I have. I can't spend too much time trying to convince people that simple physics are at play.
Lot of people here in comments seems confused. So lets throw some terms and numbers. The Carnot efficiency determines the maximum efficiency that you can get from the heat cycle like you see on the video. It purely depends on the absolute temperature difference on the hot and cold side (1- (Tmin/Tmax)). Here on video i see 139 F = 332.15 K on hot side and 37C = 310.15K on cold (funny how the units are switched). Thats about 6.6% maximum potential efficiency of energy convertion (which is only theoretical and never reachable). But why not, lets add a tesla turbine to it and lets be very very optimistic and say that it has an isentropic efficiency of 60% and everything else is optimal. Then the overall energy conversion efficiency would be almost 4%! But more likely much lower.
But fuck it, Im gonna build it anyways on my offshore hut, just put a 1kW heater to keep the water boiling at 90C and assuming its cold outisde so I have 30C in my condense, then and I can get around 90W in electricty back! Almost enough to keep my 2 lights on! Sure I can scale it up, maybe for 10kW heater, then I could get back 900W, which is more interesting. In this scenarion the efficiency will be 9%, because Im not considering the closed cycle, where I would need to add up the energy required for pumping the condensed water back to evaporator at slightly higher pressure.
There are better liquids like Refrigerants as well as better turbines, that could utilize this low potential temperatures and they are commonly used in Organic Rankin cycles (ORC). Its nothing new and this field is quite well researched. Well designed ORC's could reach energy conversion efficiencies up to 20%.
Very cool.. Would this be the type of system you recommend using or do you have other ideas?
@@joshuanorris9785 It just depends on your needs, expectations and price you are willing to pay. For each there bunch of solutions. This project seems like something to do for fun since you can DIY most of it, but at the end it is not worth it.
@@radomirfilip8741 Since natural gas is 3x cheaper than electricity where i'm from I was hoping that I could use this to convert natural gas into electricity.. But if it's not efficient then what's the point? I also have A LOT of waste heat from my business that i'm looking to convert back into electricity & am seeking the best approach.. Thus far I see this as the best option. Any ideas?
@@joshuanorris9785 As the current state of art, the ORC cycles are thus far the best for converting low potential heat into the electricity. But it depends on how much waste heat is available and at what temperature level to make sense of it economically.
But does the energy required to heat and cool the water (make ice) exceed the energy generated from the turbine? Or, are you utilizing an external source of energy (e.g., solar) to heat the water?
Ice was only for demonstration, it's not needed.
I love these small demonstrations but dont take your eye off the prize. There will always be naysayers, no matter what you do. Your time and more important, energy, are better spent on advancing to th end goal or spending time with friends and family. Keep up the great work, thanks
absolutely, and another thing people need to understand is reshearch and development takes time, you can't get everything right the first time but people like to see the progress as we go. I just ignore the nay Sayers.
I am a big fan of your work. I am thrilled to see what you come up with soon.
Have you tried any turbine designs other than Tesla? Just curious if the Tesla is the most efficact in terms of amount of fluid needed.
I have tried many design's and have a bladed one I will be testing in the future. I tested in the past and it was extremely powerful. But for now we are doing bladeless turbines.
first time the water is put in the vacuum, a lot of dissolved oxygen will come out (eg why fish can breathe under water). Wonder if the system could me made more efficient if that initial oxygen was removed.
You could try using propane or butane and get rid of the water and put a good height (head) and use the weight of liquid to do some work
Good idea, although I think you would need a very tall tower to see any benefit.
Sounds like the perfect way to power a space craft.
I understand the working fluid in a heat pipe can move as fast as the speed of sound in that medium.
You might take note of hot side temp cold side temp and rate of water transfer. You might then determin the amount of heat energy per second it can transfer.
So should the be free energy out of nothing or some kind of perpetuum mobile?
or is it just a demonstration of some other concept?
not from nothing, the sun will be the primary heat source.
Where did you go? Please give us an update. You would get more patrons if you at least gave us a sneak peek of what you've been up to. Hope you're not being threatened...
not threatened, just so much has happened, I've just been overwhelmed. The storm is clearing though and updates are on the way.
Ok so I’m going to ask what’s probably a dumb question but even dumb questions should get asked right…. So as I understand it the hot side… not particularly hot mind you only needs to be above the boiling point of the water in a vacuum. This will give you the cold steam and the flow. The cold side needs to be cold enough to condense the steam back into liquid. Eventually I assume if you keep adding heat to the hot side all the water will move to the cold side…. Would it be possible to connect the the two vessels together so the hot side would never run dry? Making it a closed loop? Might need to be a deep long loop…. But in my mind it should work…..
Do you constantly heat the left side to keep the temperature difference at a certain level? Or what is the red plate/box under the left bucket?
Super nice and easy demonstration, thanks so much! :)
it only needs to be heated once in a while until the thermal energy in the water battery is discharged the more water you have the more energy you can store. It can be heated with any source of heat, primarily thermal heat panels which can be up to 97% efficient.
It looks like a plastic container of o-rings that they used to raise the height of the tank.
@@danafletcher2341 haha you got it!
It would be interesting to measure the energy spent to create the vacuum and that obtained during the pressure rebalancing phase. Sun and snow seem to be the key to everything. Pretty awesome!
once you connect the two tanks together with a pump and a one way valve the vacuum pump never needs to be used again, it is only used one time to prime the system.
@@DaxsDad Let me clear up how this works for you.
Once the air is removed by use of the vacuum pump there's only water left in the system, both gas and liquid phase. The vacuum pump does not need to be used again as long as the system is airtight, because there's no air to remove, only water and water vapor.
The energy in this system does not arise from nothing. The energy put into this system is heat energy from the warm water on the left. The vacuum lowers the boiling point of water, so warm water below 100C is enough to cause it to boil aka convert water from liquid to gas phase. The flask on the right is cooled to below the boiling point under that vacuum, causing the water vapor to condensate.
Water takes up roughly 1000 times the volume in gas phase compared to liquid phase. So when it condenses on the cold side that water vapor coming over from the warm side now takes up 1000 times less volume, this keeps pulling a vacuum on the warm side causing more and more to boil over to the cold side.
This process will continue until either the temperature on both sides are the same or the warm side contains no more water to boil. If we imagined this setup, but the warm and cold side are continuously supplied with fresh warm and cold water, then it will continue to boil over until the warm flask has no liquid left in it. At that point you can run cold water on the warm side and vice versa to continue the process in reverse.
Now all you need is a turbine in the pipe going between the flasks. The flow of the water vapor will make it spin. Effectively converting heat energy into kinetic energy.
So you see, the vacuum IS NOT what gives this system energy. It is the heat energy applied on the left flask. In fact you can build a fully functional setup like this without even putting the system under a vacuum, just sealing it up. The difference is just that you'll need to heat the left flask to 100C to make it boil, this will create steam which will condense in the cool flask and this continues as long as the left flask is heated and has liquid water left in it. Doing it under a vacuum is probably just more efficient and easier to work with (don't need a scalding hot heat source).
So if anyone doesn't understand the laws of thermodynamics here it's you. This is simple physics used every single day in numerous applications worldwide. Heat pipes work on this principle, they're just hollow copper pipes with a little bit of water under a vacuum. Heat one side, the water vaporizes/boils, flows to the colder side and condenses.
Learn some actual physics before you go on the internet and make a fool of yourself.
@@DaxsDad You didn't pass basic physics and chemistry in school did you? I suggest you read up and learn more before making an utter fool of yourself. There is no free energy here, there is no perpetual motion. There just is a more practical range of temperatures, at the cost of having to put it under a vacuum, at least once, if we assume no leaks.
@@MikaelIsaksson > There is no free energy here
Exactly, the energy comes from the heat difference between 2 chambers, cmon do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
@@DaxsDad This isn't free energy at all. The only real reason he's introducing a vacuum here is to lower the boiling temperature of the water so that you can safely use the system in or near the home. It also allows you to use a wider variety of materials that might not withstand high temperatures.
Additionally by reducing the boiling point it means your working in an overall lower temperature differential band, the temperature differential scalar value would be the same, but it means we can work closer to ambient temperatures for our condenser. Another benefit is that by operating in a lower temperature band the rate of heat loss to the atmosphere is reduced, as the greater the temperature differential the faster the rate at which the heat transfer will occur. It also means standard insulation can be used in conjunction with the system as you won't need high temperature rated material as previously mentioned. Also operating below 100C is a very smart move as most regulations around boilers and what not don't come into play till you go above 100C, or a certain pressure, by working below this it makes it much easier to get into market as well.
There's nothing particularly ground breaking about this either, this is all just simple physics. The real triumph here is that this turbine unlike other more conventional designs is much simpler in design for most of the primary components, and is compact compared to traditional counterparts, which makes it ideal for off grid or microgrid applications. For those of us in Northern climbs as well a system like this is much more sensible to use than a solar array. Especially when the outdoor temperature is -20C on a regular basis. If the temperature differential was great enough you could probably run the turbine off the 23C ambient temperature of the home, the result of doing so however would be robbing your home of heat to power the turbine which would be a pointless venture, as is why you'd probably want a separate source of energy to heat up the boiler side. But that too is the benefit as others have stated, you can use many different methods to heat your boiler, and you can probably use solar collectors during the day to heat the boiler and then at night use the stored energy to generate power, the additional benefit there being that at night your condenser would be at a lower temperature and increase your overall differential, especially where this is under vacuum the boiler side can be closer to ambient temperature, which reduces the rate of heat loss throughout the day to the atmosphere.
If you also dug down far enough, the temperature of the ground stays above freezing, so you could also use the earth as a source of heat too, like a geothermal heat pump. Though I suspect that would be overly expensive for the gains compared to a simple boiler design with a solar water heater.
This is soo awesome! I am really in awe of this. Can you scale up, power a home with this maybe?
absolutely, that's what we are doing
@@iEnergySupply with a heat pump you could concentrate ground heat and use this system.
The ground a foot down or so is a constant temperature, its basically the yearly average temperature...
I've seen people use the ground heat to heat greenhouses here on TH-cam and they were able to make it a constant steady temp that was suitable to grow oranges in a northern climate
Where is the turbine?
I'm sorry but can't see any pressure differential between the two containers and it would of been easy to show with two vacuum gauges or with a tig welder flow meter
yeah, you'll have to watch our previous video, it shows it in action, a turbine rotating at 60 thousand rpm.
Pretty basic thermodynamics. As the "hot" vapor condenses, it maintains the vacuum in the condenser because the non-condensable gases have been removed. The vast majority of steam-driven turbines use this to increase efficiency.
If you pump the condensate back to the boiler and continue adding energy (heat), the reaction will continue. If the energy produced by the turbine/generator is greater than the energy added to the system by the pump, then you have a self-sustaining system, given the heat source is external. ie. Solar, Nuclear, Natural Gas, Coal, Oil, etc.
I'd love to see a video where you have a heat source for the boiler and a pump to recirculate the condensate.
Yeah this video was mainly for all the people thinking I was using compressed air. They also thought the vacuum pump would take too much energy to evacuate the system then I would get from the water.
@@iEnergySupply oh for sure. It's a great demo. Though it'd be even better if you had more of the condenser visible lol.
Very curious, Jake, have you used such a turbine with scuba breathing systems? I would very much approve of your assistance in this area for an air vehicle build.