The Stone Age People of the Ancient North: Mystery solved!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- It's crazy how one of the BIG mysteries now seem to have been solved of what really happened in Scandinavia upon the onslaught of the Indo-European expansion into early pre Bronze Age Europe. For some reason several groups of tall hunter-gatherers men in Northern Scandinavia survived, unlike almost all other places in Europe, and eventually blended in with the warriors from the Central Asian steppes. And boy how their genes have spread out far and wide!
To put it bluntly and plain simple:
When great hunters in the far north met with great warriors from the steppes, they blended in and became the Vikings. Not only Vikings, but they also became the earlier Germanic tribes (which I call Scandinavian tribes). Their descendents are so many people living all over the World and their earliest stories fit surprisingly well with our oldest Norse tales and myths of when the Jotuns of Jotunheim in Northern Scandinavia met and mixed with the Norse Gods, such as the parents of Odin.
This is all truly astonishing and even thought I should have been a co-author on this paper (which I still hope someone with an ethical mind will see through, though that's another story), I am very happy to finally see more proof, sound DNA evidence which confirms many of my videos on this channel, such as Secrets of the Germanic Tribes and The ancient roots of the TROLL myth:
• Secrets of the Germani...
• TROLLS ARE REAL! The a...
Preprint: www.biorxiv.or...
Genomic Atlas: genomicatlas.o...
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Many thanks!
All best!
It's interesting that the western Finns have a high percentage of the I1 haplotype because the men of Pohjanmaa (Ostrobothnia) on the western coast of Finland are famous among Finns for their love of fighting. My father was a soldier in the Finnish Army during World War II and he told me that the Ostrobothnians were among the toughest of Finnish soldiers. They are known for their love of knife-fighting, and especially in the 19th century there were famous knife-fighters there such as Antti Isontalo. Oddly enough, however, Pohjanmaa is also the center of the puritanical Laestadius sect of Lutheranism.
That's a very interesting comment. Thanks
@@VikingStories You're welcome! Here's some info about these knife-fighters:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puukkojunkkari
@counselthyself If I remember correctly around 5% of the Finnish population speaks Swedish as their native language. These "Finland-Swedes" live mostly along the western coast. The I1 haplotype doesn't distinguish between those who speak Swedish and who speak Finnish, however, and this is also true of the fighting-culture of Ostrobothnia/Pohjanmaa.
@counselthyself You are correct.
Swedes
I1 here from Sweden. The mystery is why I2 dominated until the Bronze Age and the suddenly I1 jumped ahead from nowhere.
If you look at mesolithic Europe and all the way back to the Gravettians that replaced the Aurignacien culture around 27000 BC.
Thats a long time ago. It coinsides with one important event. Y haplogroup I M-170 split from M-253.
So Gravettian culture must have carried both M-170 and M-253.
But M-253 is nowhere in the archaelogical record. Until the Bronze Age.
Your ideas are proving true and that is a good feeling, yes? It’s an amazing story of human and societal development, thanks for bringing us up to date ❗️
Well, it's only logical I find and it's sort of a treasure hunt for more knowledge about our roots and history. I think the curiosity in it is the best feeling:) Have a good Weekend!
I love how happy you are when speaking about this, it can be very emotional when we find those lost pieces of our own roots. ❣️🌲❄️
I loved the fact I'm in the I1 family...the original stone masons. My Haplogroup is I-Y6228, which is an East Germanic subclade that was associated with the Goths that was formed approx 3,000 YBP. 😁
This is very interesting and you spoke of this before the paper was written ! Now l need to hear more. Tusen takk Sturla! 🇧🇻🇺🇸
Well done for making this video. You deserve a medal. However, I think you got one thing wrong. I have read the paper too - but my understanding is a little different to yours. You suggest that the R1 Battle-Axe culture caused the bottle neck by killing off large numbers of I1 men, but then the two groups made peace and merged into one people.
But if this were true, archaeologists would have found I1 samples in the Scandinavian Hunter gatherer population that lived prior to the arrival of the Battle-Axe people - but the paper says they haven’t found any such I1 samples. The paper says they have only found I2 and I* samples in the Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers - so far.
The paper goes on to say that all the evidence suggests that I1 was there in scandinavia alongside I2 and I* but not in any great numbers, otherwise they would have found it - the first I1 sample is dated to just before the Nordic Bronze Age which is after the Battle-Axe culture ended, not before. So the Battle-Axe people really wiped out the I2 population. You are correct in saying that the I1 population merged with the R1a Battle-Axe people but the I1 population was so small (maybe one family or kin group) it could have just hid in a remote spot and re-emerged after the slaughter had finished.
The paper actually says that the bottleneck in I1 occured during the last ice age (not with the arrival of the Battle-Axe culture) and that for thousands of years the population of I1 never grew to more than a handful of people - and that is why the I1 Y-chromosome has over 300 unique mutations. This is the real mystery.
I have been interested in learning more about the ancient Scandinavians and am glad that this has been a focal point of your life’s work! I’ve learned quite a bit from watching your videos
My branch Z60 did start in Northwest Germany 4300 BP, that is Corded ware. And eventually ended up in Sweden in the Viking age.
I am also Z-60! I've had such a hard time tracking down info on our group! Can I ask where you found this information? I would like to know more
You talk with such passion. This is fascinating, so very interesting. Thank you Surla.
Hi 193 cm Croatian from the mountains of Bosnia here… Although I do question the validity of Mytruancestry ancient results, my highest matching sample on there is An Ostrogoth sample from Hungary.
And very interesting that the tallest nations in the world are the Balkans and Scandinavia/Netherlands. I wonder if this has to do with Vikings (I1) or just Haplogroup I (i1,i2) in General? Since I2 is very heavily associated with the Balkans as well. Any answers Sturla?
I agree, Mario. 10% of Norway's population migrated to the Netherlands in the 16th-18th centuries, and the Frisians were heavily influenced by the early Viking trade in the Merovingian times (and they too originated in Scandinavia, as with the other Germanic tribes). I also think Gepids and Heruli settled in the Balkans in large numbers, many of whom served the Byzantine emperor (in the Gothic wars, but also after).
@@VikingStories Lithuanians are the tallest ethnic group along with classic dutch. (That is, those who didnt have parents coming from Russia during the soviet age, so "ethnic lithuanians" we talk of here) That is however based on modern formalized ethnic groups of the 1900s. Smaller more unknown ethnic groups have been and can be as tall. Mostly in Norway, Denmark, south Sweden and the Balkans + Germany, baltics, Switzerland.
You guys should learn about nihlotic people like Tutsi . Burundi beats Dutch average
i1 in Scandinavia split off from the i2 of Croatia
Amazing. ❤bravo 🏆🔥🔥🔥☝️
The pre I1 doesn't necessarily mean I1 was from SHG, but it does make it seem likely. Won't be sure until we actually find an HG with I1 tbh
Good point.. we do have Öllsjö 9 from about 4900 bp, but that's not far enough back in time 👍🏻
I1 DF29 Z60 Z140 A196 Y6900 Y199436 YF73314 Portugese, Visigoth- many smoking guns
Interesting. It's really cool that the Goths seem to mainly have had Scandi haplogroups. It's nice to see the Gothic origin myth from Jordanes be confirmed with DNA. Thanks for the video Sturla.
Goths are an invention, just like Huns. In all ancient documents they are mentioned as Getae. Jordanes wrote the history of Getae not the goths. Gothaland is were a portion of the Daco-Getae went after the Roman conquest of Dacia. That is why your haplogroup is there
Its not surprising, there would of been wave after wave of people going south looking for better pastures when cooling events happened...
The Goths had mainly R1b-U106 which is the only germanic haplogroup and a branch of the indoeuropeans.
@@simonsays2774 it's more common among West Germanics than among Scandinavians
@@АскарТуребеков-ж2н I know. That's why the majority of Scandinavians are not naturally blonde.
So is this the REAL EUROPEAN/REAL WHITE Haplogroup ?
Takk for videoen.
Elsker slik informasjon.
I was surprised big time about the results of sample VK363 found in Langeland, Denmark being only 2-3 steps away from my terminal SNP. Until now, I always thought my branch has had developed on its way from the north to the south, but that sample changes everything! That guy is probably my oldest DNA tested male ancestor on my paternal line!
I kind of pretty much thought that stone age Europe became a very violent place, and this escalated into the bronze and Iron ages
It makes perfect sence that the geography of the North provided the perfect place for these people to thrive and to retreat to when necessary, it makes sense
@@rupertthebusdriver8997 Agreed
Thanks again for another great video. I really enjoy how you add the documentation with your videos. Yes I have see they video it is really awesome.
Fascinating Sturla! Thanks kindly for sharing this valuable information 🙏💪
So these 'warriors' who moved into Scandinavia from the east, what was there normal method of gaining food? Were they pastoralists, who moved with their horses and cattle or other animals? Did they heavily rely on milk from horses or other animals they herded? Its not very clear in the video. I guess they also raided the hunter gatherers they found already in Scandinavia. Are these warriors you refer to, the Yamnaya? Apparently there were large in stature too.
I'm I-M253. Hello Cousin! Greetings from southeast Missouri. I wonder about I1 and fishing? Until the last 50 years most of my farmed. But they fished for far more than sport or relaxation. They fished aggressively and methodically. It was a 'whole family' activity. Everyone participated in the fishing, cleaning, preserving, etc...and everyone got a share (shares were sent to family that were too old or couldn't make it to the fishing). A 'Fish Fry' was a common family gathering (we still have them). They also harvested turtles, frogs and freshwater mussels seasonally. Did any of your families do this?
Thank you for sharing. Continue to be you friend.
Is it safe to say that the Germanic Genetic identity was created due to the mixture between R1b + I1 ?
Yes, but the mixing story is more complex. The Western Hunter Gatherers mixed with the Eastern Hunter Gatherers, EHG=(75% ANE +25% WHG), EHG was formed in 3/4 of an ancient Siberian population, called the Ancient Northern Eurasians, the mixture gave rise to the Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers SHG=(81% WHG +19% ANE). The SHG mixed with the European Farmers of the Bell Beaker culture, and the Indo-Europeans of the Steppes or Yamnaya (R1b).
Thanks for this very interesting vlog. I'm an I1 male born in London, and my paternal ancestry, which is easily traceable due to my patronymic surname, which comes from an eponymous ancestor known to history, is originally a Viking one, with my mother's ancestors being mostly Anglo-Saxon and Norman. I'm also blond-haired with blue eyes, and of above-average height (6'2", or 188 cm), though despite having pale skin, I tan quite easily and there is an autosomal genetic signature closely associated with Sardinia, which probably indicates an admixture of Early European Farmers sometime during the Bronze Age, most like from Indo-European admixture, who picked up EEF genes during their migrations.
Are you of Norman descent or earlier? It's all moot really because the Y chromosome evolved in Europe 40k YBP..
@@AnthonyGuy-z7u The Y-DNA haplogroup I1 actually split from its parent haplogroup I around 27,500 years ago and everyone belonging to I1 has a most recent common ancestor who lived around 4,600 BP in Southern Sweden.
Today, the highest frequency for the I1 haplogroup is in Scandinavia.
I do have Norman ancestors, as well as Anglo-Saxon and Viking ones, so I'm pretty much 100% Scandinavian/Germanic as far as I know.
I may well have some more recent southern European ancestry from autosomal admixture, though I'm not aware of any recent ancestry from that region.
I do know that a tiny percentage of my genetic make up is from the Early European Farmers, and that 1.5% of my genes are Neanderthal, which is roughly half the European average, which is 3% for most modern Europeans, which suggests that my Western Hunter Gatherer ancestors didn't mix with farmers or Neanderthals, and any admixture of these groups most likely comes from Indo-Europeans, who must've picked it up during their migration west from the Eurasian steppe during the Copper Age or early Bronze Age.
Like most modern Europeans, I also have admixture from Ancient North Eurasians, who were Siberian hunter gatherers, which most likely came from very early contact with my paternal ancestors across Fenno-Scandinavia, rather than from the Indo-Europeans much later on.
Thank you for sharing this knowledge! So very interesting!
Excited !
Man, I really appreciate that you always give the Visigoth’s in Spain some attention whenever possible. People tend to overlook their importance. A bit of trivia - in E.A. Thomson’s book visigoths in the time of Ulfila he explains that visi does not mean west it means valiant or brave. They decided against calling themselves west goths as the west is the place where the sun sets and therefore ominous in its associations. But they were visi or valiente, the romans, the huns, the moors- they fought everybody!
Are you a Spanish Visigoth?
@@AnthonyGuy-z7u Yes, a little bit of that heritage is in me, but the visigoths dissolved into the wider spanish genepool over a millenia ago
@@atlanticdragon4773 Our family Y haplogroup is Visigothic with downstream SNPs I could only get hits for in Spain and South America when I searched. Interesting.Thanks for responding.
@@AnthonyGuy-z7u How did you evidence it to be visigothic? Where is your male line from?
@@atlanticdragon4773 England, so part of the Anglo-Saxon migration but we lived in Kent for as far back as we can tell so surmising potentially Jutes. I1a-Z63 is regarded a a Gothic marker. It looks like when the Goths moved during the Migration period they went in a few directions.
I live in the province with that 35% spot in Central Italy... but that municipality has only 550 inhabitants today (more than 3000 in the past) and was the only one tested in all that region. There are legends about Dutch crusaders who founded the village, it could explain the high quantity of I1, if not it was probably the Longobards.
It could easily have been Normans. They were plentiful in that region
@@VikingStories In Western Sicily were probably the Vikings but in the rest of Italy Franco-Normans were only an elite, the only Germanic peoples who mass migrated and stayed in Italy were the Goths and the Longobards. Probably what helped the diffusion of the new peoples was also the low number of local inhabitants (even lower after the Gothic war and the plague). Anyways is a bit weird to have a Swedish level of I1 so close to Rome.
@@candylandi5351 yes, indeed. Well, places like Melfi and Venosa were very important to the Normans (and their descendents) for centuries, and Foggia and other places were important crusader stops on the way to Bari and the Middle East. And we know the Normans married much into the Lombard elite. Personally I think also many Goths blended in with the Lombards, even if there aren't too many sources confirming that. Good points, Candy Landi. Grazie
@@VikingStories You're welcome, thanks for the reply. Just for info that 35% spot in central Italy is a village called Cappadocia (province of L'Aquila, region of Abruzzo).
@@candylandi5351 The name (Cappadocia) interestingly came from old greek Kappadohhia (the hh here = greek letter X, the throaty H)
These stone age people who originally populated these areas, are they related to the Denosovian people? I've read that some of the Denosovian populations might have been really tall people and at Least we Finns still have some of their DNA but other Europeans not that much... But maybe Scandinavians? But if so this would really explain some of the myths and legends within our peoples, Jotuns who were very clearly seen as an another race, that were huge people and had been living in the area for so long and the Kaleva myth in Finland, Karelia & Estonia. Mythical giant leader Kaleva whose offspring were often claimed to be giants as well and even today Estonians call strong and often tall people as a son of Kaleva...
I am a firm believer that most myths and legends in history are based on truth, the stories just start a life of their own and mix with fiction over time.
Well remember that for example the sämi only 4 generations ago were as grown ups only 155 cm tall(men) and 140-150 (women). So if short tribes or ethnic groups would meet up with much taller such as 180-183 ish, the latter would appear as giants. Mythology often exaggerates things very much because told stories change easily. Now, on the walls of ancient Egypt however, there are drawn literally giants..the others are sitting on their laps. But we don't if those others are children. That could be... The tallest ancient skeleton found in modern-day archeology was probably the Homo Longi in central Asia. There are claims of taller skeletons having been found in caves in America (see Kosmographia podcast). Where allegedly religious priests or religious historians destroyed or hid away the findings due to fear that it would disturb the bible version interpreted as giants only being present in the Middle east. The tallest Tehuelche were confirmed to be just under 2 meters tall, but the average were around 182-185 cm. (A native tribe in Argentina) Apparently the tallest were brough on a ship to Europe in order to make a racist freak show out of them possibly, or just to prove the finding. But this individual died on the journey, started getting smelly (The corpse) and the crew had to throw him overboard) The tallest basketball players in the NBA today are probably the tallest individuals ever to have lived among homo sapiens, but we don't know for sure.
(way way back in much more ancient times there was the Gigantopithecus, an ape more or less walking on two) The norwegian form of the Kaleva giant is called a "rise" (in finnish today the spelling would be "riise". Jotunn in Norway folklore were both smaller, a kind of trolls or orks or similar, and giants, depending on which text or myth we talk of)
Papuans, melanesians, about carry the most denisovan .
Read most post lgm people had shorter legs but sturdier bust . Maybe that selective phenomena was less likely on nothern population .
More and more it seems I1 may be traced back to one of those rare maritime hunter/megalithic hybrid populations of the Neolithic, which were a sort of optimal fusion of traditions. It seems some of my ideas about the Neolithic dagger period will prove true, for R1b-U106 as well. But maybe the real problem has been trying to peg I1 to a common narrative of populations and paternal haplogroups while all the evidence points to a most uncommon story.
As an i1 (i1-p109, which is found amongst some Montenegrins) I'm always excited to learn more about i1. I especially love how you are connecting our myths to possible real events which inspired them
P.S. Growing up as a teen I was obsessed with martial arts. As an adult today I have fought and competed in many full contact fighting sports. It's incredible to think that my ancestors may have left behind some genes which make me predisposed to seek out a warrior lifestyle
Same with me.. +20 years BJJ, karate and aikido when I grew up:) All best
@@VikingStories blood memory man, it's real
Love from cоusins in Bulgaria which are also I1 😍
I1 was thriving in today’s Ukrain and the Baltic states until the Huns arrived and that’s when a lot of them migrated south in today’s balkans
@N S there were also later migrations, such as viking mercenaries in Byzantine curt, when they were guardian of the Byzantine kings. Much later, I1 arrived with Saxon miners who came to the Balkans to dig and produce stile. Personally, I am a descendent of such people, Saxons called in my country, Sassie.
Hyperborean warriors!
very interesting!
i wish someone would do as much research into G1 haplogroup!
Do it. Make a video
I always thought that blonde hair spread in Europe from Scandinavia during the Bronze Age and later migrations. Because Irish People have much Yamnaya-related ancestry too, but many of them aren't blonde. And the Yamnaya have been found mostly dark-haired and brown eyed. I think the Scandinavian Hunter & Gatherers and later Funnelbeaker people in Scandinavia already had high frequencies of blondeness, fair skin and light eyes. Farming maybe even increased the evolution of those traits, as soon as the farmers settled there.
Most Scandi hunter gatherers we're not blonde. SHG was just among the first populations to have fully adult blondes in rare instances. They were also violently opposed to the megalithic farmers and did not come after them. The Pitted Ware Culture which was descended from SHG incredibly lived side by side with Indo-Europeans and were culturally influenced by them, this was after Funnelbeaker no longer existed, but even then most PWC weren't blonde or "light" in their features except for their blue eyes.
I state this for a few reasons because there are misconceptions about blondism primarily. The genes for blondism by all evidence appears to have come from Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers, who made up a major component of Indo-European DNA but also Funnelbeakers (some of this via mixing with SHG likely). Even though Funnelbeakers selected more for blondism, IE carried the genes for this among other unique traits as well and we know this because there are kurgan burials in West and Central Asia with blonde hair and blue eyes despite having no WHG/EEF admixture like that of Funnelbeakers or other highly blonde populations. The blue eyes in these IE burials likely came from Caucus Hunter gather admixture which some Indo-Europeans carried.
So it's no doubt that blue eyes and blonde hair in adults became more common with the expansion of Germanic tribes in the iron age but pre-Celtic IE populations in Ireland carried the genes for blonde/blue in adults even if they didn't select for it as strongly as some other groups all over. I think that descriptions of Lugh in Irish myth as a blonde doesn't indicate Germanic admixture or influence on the written sources necessarily, same as Achilles among Mycenaeans.
@@dirksharp9876 yeah initially, blondism wasn't very common in any population. But could it be, that farming in northern latitudes increased blondism as a side effect of people becoming increasingly light skinned? Scandinavia with the Funnelbeakers was the most northern agricultural society. I think that the increased selection for blondism started earlier in Scandinavia than with the IE. Funnelbeakers and Pitted Ware were already in a process of getting lighter features.
@@marcopony1897 Oh you're absolutely correct, it's just that you implied continuation of these features because of Funnelbeaker or even more so SHG which is far from the case. Even in their late stage, the PWC living side by side with Indo-Europeans, most still had rather dark features except for their eyes. Funnelbeaker was an outlier for a few reasons and they just couldn't really hold much of the coast due to antagonism from SHG/PWC.
If you look at like allegedly blonde figures like Alcibiades, he likely had no Funnelbeaker admixture, but would have clustered close to them genetically as would most Greeks. As IE settled Europe, adult blondism would become more common throughout even though they didn't express that initially in most samples and as you say, more so in the north. You're absolutely correct about selection factors but like blue eyes you know purely sexual selection is a big factor as well.
blond hair is older than most people think, the ancient north Eurasians carried the DNA for blond hair. And that is about 21000 bc. It was just more common in the bronze age due to the status of blond people, it was seen as a great thing to have. Many heroes in ancient times were said to have light hair and gods.
Yea, my family is celtic/Nordic and I have brown eyes, and dark brown hair which is very closely related to yamnaya
Great video,but one thing you failed to mention is from the single Mesolithic I1 between the bottle neck and the next I1 that was found was during the late Neolithic/early Bronze Age was these early I1 samples were made up of individuals that were overwhelmingly of steppe ancestry as if they came into this area with the r1b invaders. They very possibly were from the north Scandinavian mountains as you say but their genomes were the same as the corded ware r1b invaders so if true these early I1 men they somehow mixed heavily with the invaders women
23andMe says my Y-DNA haplogroup is I-M253 (formerly "I1*" because they apparently couldn't narrow it down previously?) and that it's "extremely rare" at less than 1 in 250,000 people, meaning that 50 or fewer of the 12 million users on the site share this. But its description also states that "Haplogroup I-M253 can be found at levels of 10% and higher in many parts of Europe"; other information from the web shows that it's actually the haplogroup of more than 1 in 3 males in Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Norway, which seems to contradict 23andMe's claims about its rarity. Incidentally, my "ancestry timeline" doesn't include any Scandinavian countries.
That is very interesting. I* i know of but not I1*. I one Star. It sounds so cool 😎
Well rare amongst testers, but high in Scandinavia
I1 are the Vanir worshipers. R1b are the Asatru worshipers. Mythology explain the truce and coexistence very well
Fellow I1 thank you for all that you do
My Grandfather was a Stout from Orkney line :)
Orkney a Viking stop over to Scotland for sure
The Jamnaya concerd Main Europe as you say. Why not in Scandinavia? A few did, but much later, and they were few, coming via Baltics. We know that in Bronze Age the powerful 5 % of men were fathers of almost all children. Than you only need some hundreds of poweful horsemen to build a population, taking inhabitants daughters
Det var veldig "swenglish" der :) :) Du kan bruke Google translate for å kontrollere ordstaving på engelsk. "Know", "daughters". Ja det var normalt at eliten fikk best tilgang til damer, og damene var nok også tiltrukket av makt og penger.... ;)
Great video, I really like your presentation style! Interesting topic too. I'm I1 haplogroup (From Australia of British ancestry) and am interested in it's origins. It does seem a bit different to R1b the dominant Y Haplogroup in Western Europe. It does seem a fairly good marker for Scandinavian migration through the Viking age?
I agree, though R1a and R1b, N1c men (and others?) surely also were Vikings, as they had mixed much, a possible effect of the fimbul winter and the plague of the 6th and 7th centuries.
really interesting finds!
What you are describing sounds a lot like the Vanir vs Aesir war from legend and folklore.
Exactly, Rob 👍🏻
@@VikingStories Georges Dumézil believed that the myth represented something about the social classes/historical events of the indoeuropean society. Some scientists believe the Vanir cult or belief system was present in ancient Scandinavia, whereas intruders brought the norse religion into Scandinavia (maybe not far from Heyerdahl on the Odin/Wothann-Tanais migratory hypothesis regarding Black sea origins). What is certain is that one can easily find similarities between the norse culture and the classic ones in the Levant such as the jewish. For example the use of symbols both as sigils, numbers, letters. The tree of life concept Yggrasil is more or less from the Middle-east. In Kabbalah one will find a late version of it represented a bit differently
@@KibyNykraft
The Yggdrasil is not from the middle east, its nordic Hyperborean.
There was several big migration from the north to east and southeast and back after climate change.
All white PPL having Hyperborean blood in them, just read the Bock Saga.
Levantines had many contact with indo Iranians ,greeks, anatolians . won't you think what you see as similarities would be from shared old ie myths through nearby ie presence ?
I believe that's from a later migration to Scandinavia. In Heimskringla, Snorri Sturluson describes how the ancestors to the first Norwegian royal house left the Black Sea region and gradually moved north through the "Germanic" regions. The DNA analyzis of a late 9th/early 10th C. Norwegian noble woman (believed to be Harald Hairfair's aunt but that's not been proven) seems to confirm this story.
This migration must have happened during the iron age, probably fairly late iron age even, and certainly much later than the arrival of the steppe hunter gatherers. If they were the ones who brought the Åsatru to Scandinavia, it would explain why it's so similar to religions from the Black Sea region at that time.
Have you made any videos about the Hyperboreans from the land of amber?
The descriptions from the Greeks have me convinced that they were bronze age Scandinavians.
This is my Haplogroup, Thank you for this video!
You have an I1-Z63 here. I think this is East Germanic/Gothic as well. There are remains near Rome from the early Lombard period (R110), that closely match me. I have additional matches in Spain, Poland, Bulgaria and Italy. Oh, and happy birthday!
Thanks.. very interesting
I1 is not Germanic.
@@simonsays2774 please enlighten us
@@simonsays2774Correct
I am a M253 male from Norway. I am neither blond nor tall and blue eyed as I am 170 cm tall, fairly dark skin, dark hair, brown/grey eyes and most people wondering if I am of Indonesian (!) or Siberian heritage - as my 99,6 % Scandinavian genes defy. And no Finnish or Eastern European genes were found in my Me&23 gene test.
How to explain this?
One of the top DNA scientists of the world Eske Willerslev revieled some years ago that the nordic population are almost identical with the first europeans that entered europe from the east around 40 000 years ago. This earlie meta population once lived all over europe and in big parts of the middle east and far in todays China ( see the Tocharian mummies).
So me being 2.057 meters and my father being 2.184 meters we would have definitely been thought of as giants in ancient times.
Pretty much all the Magdelenians from 18000 to 12000 ybp in Europe were Y Hap I. They replaced the Y Hap C of the Cro-Magnon, or Aurignacians, who were the modal haplogroup there previously.
I'm also I1! U5 on my mother's side. Hello brother! 😄
Based on molecular data, a population bottleneck among ancestors of modern Finns is estimated to have occurred about 4000 years ago.[3]
This bottleneck resulted in exceptionally low diversity in the Y chromosome, estimated to reflect the survival of just two ancestral male lineages.[13][14] The distribution of Y chromosome haplotypes within Finland is consistent with two separate founding settlements, in eastern and western Finland.[15]
The Finnish disease heritage has been attributed to this 4000-year-old bottleneck.[3] The geographic distribution and family pedigrees associated with some Finnish heritage disease mutations has linked the enrichment in these mutations to multiple local founder effects, some associated with a period of "late settlement" in the 16th century (see History of Finland).[16]
This is my haplogroup despite being mostly Irish/Scottish (lowlander) and northern english.
That certainly makea you a Northerner:)
I am I1-M253 with 99% more neanderthal genes than all 23&me customers.... Im American, and my ancestors were among the first to have come over, mid 1600's. Brown hair, brown eyes, 6ft tall.
Idk whats going on. 😂
it is well established exactly where i1 came from. they came from i2 in Croatia. like how Ra came from Rb.
Plus giants are not described as trolls but Men of Renown alias Sons of god. And that why the Nordic leaders also refered themself related to the nordic gods.
thanks for sharing, sturla
At least it explains many stories, mythology and cultural norms from Baltic cultures.
We are I2 romanians ,less tall and less snob than scandinavians
R1b man saying cheers to our I1 European cousins!!
Very great information, I collect and show the stones I find in Canada, some viking stones were left behind, cernunnos, dragons, lions, warriors, narnia type legends on stone, have a look!
Survive the jive is going live soon
My i-1 haplogroup came from Norway, went to northern France, then ended up in Scotland
there wasn't this big massacre of men... the areas in the west Europe where I1 and I2 were on a paleolithic level of development, so their numbers were tiny to begin with.
There still is I2 all over western Europe, but it's far from dominant, because they were hunter-gatherers and they'd number hundreds, while at the time Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements had even tens of thousands of people.
Haplogroup I originated in the Balkans. The Balkans is the first area where Neolithic cultures developed, and the first area where paleolithic populations converted to neolithic and bronze age culture, and haplogroup I is still dominant in the Balkans.
I-m253 here standing at 6ft6in (just shy of 2m like 1.98). Only the men in my family are tall. Surname Johnson from the British Isles, but 23andme points to a Danish ancestor a few generations back, likely not my Y chromosome ancestor though that family too may have been I1.
Amazing! But what on earth is a scandinavian doing in Isreal that long ago?
Weird yes, in a way, Filip. But imagine they went down as mercenaries, which we know they did also in the late Bronze Age (to Mycenaean Greece) and they got a taste of life down there and the grandeur of arts, architecture and something completely different than back in the Old Country. And then traveling around and perhaps even taking on further mercenary assignments in present day Middle East. I guess it's no wonder that you'd find small communities such as the Philistines.. makes sense?
@@k1_w3 sounds like we wuzing to me, but DNA don’t lie. Let’s just try to not get ahead of ourselfs.
@@filipaugustus1230 If there’s a “we was” going on, regarding europeans and israel, then it’s a retarded idea regardless of whether it’s true or not
@@k1_w3 Which means they AND the nordic blonde and tall weren't nordic by origin, but either phoenician and/or the oriental gothian/guthic/kathi people mentioned in history sources in several middle-eastern nations. Possibly related to the guanches of Canarias. That is right in the "atlantis" area roughly. Regarding Solon/Plato etc. Later back we don't know where they came from.
@@KibyNykraft the Guanches of the Canary Islands are said to be descendants of the Berbers but I'm sure that is debatable though since so much of history is politicized today with an anti-European narrative.
One wonders what spurred all the violence?
How did they drill the holes in the axe hammers they made?
they need to see if there was a new mutation in the current I1 that didnt exist before that could account for its sudden success
Interesting video but one minute you say there was no replacement in Scandinavia then you say there was replacement in Sweden and Denmark? Probably needed a longer video or a lot more intelligence from me. Cheers ps i am I1 from dna test , Mercia Angleland
Well, the paper says population turnover in Denmark and Southern Sweden, but not so further north. Thanks 👍🏻
@@VikingStories Ok thanks Sturla Cheers
what do you think the origins for the maternal haplogroup H2a is? I've heard it's been related to the corded ware cultures, although of course its harder to connect maternal haplogroups to specific genetic groups.
I agree, so not sure. All best
The fight between the Brown bull and the white bull or the red dragon if the white dragon.
Really we live in the age of the Scyithian. 🤘 ♉♓🍀
Love your videos. 🤘
Please get to the point. 4 minutes in and you have not said anything.
Blond hair and light skinn is from the european ancestors the neanderthal.
Origin of I halpogroup is Kosovo
I have always thought about things very similar to this too.
The “Vikings” didn’t just start in the approx 700CE period. They were following in the steps of their ancestors who were making these voyages to many parts of coastal europe from at least the mid Bronze Age.
the irish annals and irish folklore is very interesting too and suggests many similarities to what is said in norse folklore.
I think you're onto something there
"The Oera Linda" confirms this as well.
@@chrisnewbury3793 In the traditional folk music and folk dance of Telemark and Ireland one can find close similarities to southeast Europe like the Balkans, and like Greece, Israel and parts of the Middle-east. The arab and turkish folk music and dances + the mongolian are basically just one step further out in style :) (Barely) In other ways there are similarities of west african and north african and arab music and dances. What is specific for Scandinavian and mongolian folk music are originally the drums ,but later the fiddle, like fiddles being important in irish. Into modern times the accordion (norwegian trekkspill) which is also commonplace in the Balkans. Flutes must have been used from very early on in human culture. The dances where one bends the knees fully and kick plus do a whirl ,is very typical for Russia, Turkey, Ireland, Norway and Greece from the latest the renaissance and late medievals up until today.
@@chrisnewbury3793 I see that the author names of the chapters or parts of the Oera linda don't at all fit with 2194 bc, but only with early medievals or late antiquity. The second part from the 1200s AD is probably when the whole book was written at the earliest... Now the priests and academics in the 1800s who attacked it were of course christians and felt it as a competitor to the christian bible. So that "hoax debunk" I don't take seriously, however : There is little reason to think it is written in 2194BC, thus it is a fake type of text. Was there a frisian people that far back? Not that we know of.
The problem there is that there are in Scandinavia 3 different definitions to what is a viking. One is based on medieval cultures from Viken/Vik area (would have been written "veek" in english), another refers to a small bay (a "vik"/veek) as the typical landscape where coastal people would settle to do fishing and trade. A third refers to the battle formation called to go into "viking" ("veeking"). Of course, theoretically all of these could be true as such. But we have no direct reason to say that any ethnic group or cultural region called itself viking in the early medievals. Where north europeans sailed or not is whole other debate. :)
Stone age skeletal injuries could also arise from hunting injuries.
Of course, Trolls are real, have you been on the internet?
The Gravettians were taller.
I don't quite understand: in the passage in article shown at 17:38, it says that scandinavia underwent significant genetic turnover from the mesolithic to the neolithic, and that Danish mesolithic ancestry saw a nearly total replacement. But in other videos I believe you have say that Scandinavians have a high proportion of Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherer DNA. How can that be reconciled?
Yes, that's a peculiar thing, which we see in the DNA of modern Danes. So Eske Willerslev said there was a total replacement, meaning all male hunter gatherers disappeared. However, his co-author in this paper, Kristian Kristiansen, had some important nuances, saying they most likely just migrated north, meaning to present day Sweden and Norway, up in the mountains (and some farmers even returned to the previous SHG lifestyle), and then late in the Neolithic, and/or very early Nordic Bronze Age, they seem to have returned with this emerging I1 haplogroup, into Denmark from the north. This is very early, so I imagine we will know much more about this in a year or so.. All best!
We were almost wiped out
Thanks
Thank you for the video, it is always interesting to know about our ancestors. We have been always lied to be slavs but now as I1 (I-Y6228) I know that we are with germanic roots - gothic, thuringiian, gepidic, frankish, lombardic and saxon all invaded and settled in my region... Regards to all saxon cusins who has watched this video!
The germanic tribes belong all to R1b-U106...I1 isnt't germanic.
@@simonsays2774 so more than 30% of Northern Europeans who are supposed to be germanic are actually not :) None sense. Haplogroups I1 and R1b appeared long before the formation of the Germanic or any contemporary tribes. However, some subclad of these groups are most common for different tribes. I1 with its subgroups is definitely one of germanic ones, especially its mutations and subclades, which appeared 3000 years ago and earlier in Northern Europe, when the Germanic people had already formed as distinct ethnic tribes.
Eupedia:
"Haplogroup I1 is the most common type of haplogroup I in northern Europe. It is found mostly in Scandinavia and Finland, where it typically represent over 35% of the Y chromosomes. Associated with the Norse ethnicity, I1 is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and the Vikings. After the core of ancient Germanic civilisation in Scandinavia, the highest frequencies of I1 are observed in other Germanic-speaking regions, such as Germany, Austria, the Low Countries, England and the Scottish Lowlands, which all have between 10% and 20% of I1 lineages."
"Paternal lineages associated with the diffusion of Germanic peoples from the Iron Age onwards includes Y-DNA haplogroups I1 (except some subclades of Finnish origin), I2a2a-L801, R1a-L664, R1a-Z284, R1b-U106, and R1b-L238."
Wikipedia - historical expansion of haplogroup I-M253 (I1):
"Haplogroup I1, as well as subclades of R1b such as R1b-U106 and subclades of R1a such as R1a-Z284, are strongly associated with Germanic peoples and are linked to the proto-Germanic speakers of the Nordic Bronze Age. Current DNA research indicates that I1 was close to non-existent in most of Europe outside of Scandinavia and northern Germany before the Migration Period. The expansion of I1 is directly tied to that of the Germanic tribes. Starting around 900 BC, Germanic tribes started moving out of southern Scandinavia and northern Germany into the nearby lands between the Elbe and the Oder. Between 600 and 300 BC another wave of Germanics migrated across the Baltic Sea and settled alongside the Vistula. Germanic migration to that area resulted in the formation of the Wielbark culture, which is associated with the Goths."
So, "some I1 subclades of Finnish origin", are not all I1 subclads :)
@@nanculito But that makes sense. In northern Germany, not even 20% of the population is blond. In other words, even in today's northern Germany, only a minority is of Germanic origin. I1 is not Germanic. Germanic was a foreign term for tribes that were culturally and linguistically similar. Certainly R1b bearers also integrated people from the original population into their tribes, which included I1 bearers who lived primarily in northern Germany. Eupedia has no idea. Just because they write something doesn't mean it's true. I know the statements. Eupedia has no evidence for these statements. It is only their interpretation.
@@nanculito You just have to look at the distribution of I1 and I2. Where I1 is less widespread, I2 is more widespread. The distribution of the haplogroup took place in Europe already before the Indo-European immigration, which explains why it occurs almost everywhere in traces. Most importantly, the distribution of I1 does not coincide with the distribution of Germanic tribes, even though Eupedia claims it does. I1 is a split from I2, and I2 is obviously not Germanic. And a haplogroup cannot become something. Either it is Germanic or it is not.
And what Eupedia wants to associate with Germanic is up to them. What is clear is that there was intermingling with R1a and I1 carriers at the margins. And therefore one considers these haplogroups as Germanic, even if they are not. One has already found thousands of Germanic graves. In Hesse alone more than 400. The majority of the male lines belonged to R1b-U106 in all tribes. No matter if Franks, Goths, Anglo-Saxons, Jutes, Alemanni or Lombards. The fact that other haplogroups like I1 or R1a were found is simply due to the fact that there is always mixing with the original population over several centuries.
The Wikipedia article is also incorrect. One assumes a spreading of the Teutons from Scandinavia to the south. There is no proof for it. Here again a theory is put down as fact. Teutons were a branch of the Indo-Europeans. Germanic and Celts or blond and red hair are very closely related, and have the same genetic origin. The Teutons are an R1b branch, that is, a group that migrated from the Caucasus and arrived comparatively late in Europe. Only R1a arrived even later. I1 carriers often lack the gene for blond hair. Most of those who have I1 are dark haired. Some also a little lighter, because the mother is Germanic.
The later spread of I1 was mainly through the Vikings. And as genetic studies have already confirmed, they were anything but homogeneous. The majority of the Vikings were not blond, but brown or black-haired.
@@simonsays2774why do you even associate a person's appearance with their genetic haplogroup, especialy the male one? There are african black people with R1b in central Africa... are they germans? Or are your R1b germans are african new commers in Europe? And it is quite rare to see such blond one...
A person's external marks are related to genetic snippets that are part of his autosomal DNA and are mutations that are not at all contained in the Y chromosome that is responsible for the male sex. Moreover, blond and red hair are features left to us by Neanderthals, while the mutation responsible for light eyes is much younger and originally appeared in people with dark skin and black hair who lived in the northern Black Sea steppes. Germans are also not the only people who have blond hair, so shuch are Ugrofins and Balts. Fair-haired and red-haired people are also found in the Caucasus mauntains and Iranian plato, the remains of fair-haired people have even found in Tarim Basin desert. Moreover, blonde hair is the result of a recessive gene that spread especially in the northern countries in the last 1000 years due to the relatively encapsulated Scandinavian society in that period, before that the population of Northern Europe was quite diverse and there were people with dark hair to a much greater extent. Germans are often described as people with dark hair and blue eyes, just as in the tale Snow White!
Also, how come wikipedia and europaedia are not a credible source when they refer to authentic scientific sources like Professor Reich who is one of the greatest names in paleogenetic studies, but you are relieble source? It is very interesting to know what your sources are. Perhaps you are referring to specific scientific reports unknown to the science up to now.
Further more nowhere, nowhere, in seriouse science report, no normal scientist, historian, genetic or archeologist will claim that a people that formed in the Bronze Age period is ethnically pure in origin, and to be the carrier of only a single mutation on the male Y DNA chromosome. Such a statement is simple ridiculous. I Y DNA haplogroups are the most ancient haplogroups spread in Europe among hunter gatherers, who came in Europe more then 30000 ago. These haplogroup survied until today, especialy in Northen ans Southern Europe and it is quite normal that they are part of many culture and ethnicity including germans. R1b is tipical for celts who are also part of germans ethnicity, as they mixed in North Europe with local protogermanic tribes when invaded Europe and thats how todays germanic people are formed. So today germans are of mixed origin with relativly diversed DNA origin, not as the southern populations but still diversed and in his DNA there are not only celtic R1b but also I1 and I2 of the first Europians and R1a of the latest indoeuropian invadiors. What is not clear here, it can't be simlest as that :)
I1 and cousins I2 are tallest ydna in the world
Whoa! You just completely blew my mind. I'm so glad I just happened upon your channel. This is brilliant, thank you! By the way, you spoke of the 'Wielbark' culture in what is now Poland. Well, you probably already know this, but the name of the culture has the root 'wiel-' in it, and in Polish this is a root that signifies quantity. So even today, there are words in Polish such as 'wiele', which means 'many'. But it's also used in 'wielgus', which means 'giant'. I've always thought about that when I saw the term Wielbark, but the context you've provided here just shifted me into 6th gear. Cheers!
Thanks, very interesting 👍🏻 all best
I carry I2a, does anyone know the genome history behind that? I'm also mexican, which seems in theory i should carry R1b
Well, neolithic farmers carried I2, but most likely also Western Hunter Gatherers. I2 is also strong on Sardinia. How far back can you trace your paternal family line? All best,
@@jay5467 mestizo
I2a1 also occurs between 5-10% depending on the region in the Iberian Peninsula. Especially in the direction of the Pyrenees between 10-15%. Some Spanish ancestor will have passed this on to you.
The Philistines were from the Aegean sea, not just Greece but right up the Aegean Sea to modern day Croatia region - still very tall people to this day - loads play NBA - they say the Gothic Swedes went a Viking down the river systems and had a large settlement there... whose to say similar couldn’t have happened a thousand or more years earlier as well - man takes himself where his environment deems fit! Haploid group I fascinates me because everyone else succumbed to either R1B earlier or R1A later, even the pesky Scots couldn’t avoid it, so how did I do it? I guess the Scots eventually ran out of highlands to hide in... Scandinavia doesn’t ‘run out’ lol it just goes on and on lol....
I-1 folk are more numerous then first thought in England.The info map has aged somewhat. I-M170 with I-M253 and I-M253* could be seen in 50% of English men.
Same in Italy, Jeff.. Here in Middle Italy, not counting the Lombard heartland in the Northwest: www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673
How tall are you?
Lords of the Algorithm, hear me!
I wonder if lactose tolerance came about (for some groups anyway) due to people being forced to drink the milk of their animals due to famine? I saw a study recently that seems to suggest that ancient Europeans drank milk in large quantities despite not having developed lactose tolerance at the time, so it seems like either they were forced to do so or they did so willingly for some reason, despite the bad health effects it gave them.
Lactose tolerance is low in the finnish population, the north swedish, the east-karelian (russian-karelian) and the northeasternmost norwegian (Finnmark). In these regions ,allergy to lactose, gluten is quite commonplace. In Turkey, Greece, Siberia, Hungary, Scandinavia, Mongolia, the Baltics and Poland there were old traditions of milk fermentation. This is where all the sour milk things come from such as Kefir, rømme, kvarg, yoghurt, kesam etc. Of course one step thicker is cheese, which from early on was more the standard of fermented milk in south and west and central Europe +Denmark. Some types of milk fermentation kills the lactose. (milk from goat, cow, sheep and even horse)
But actually veins are blue.😅
Min morfar har I1 men jag har R1b
I’m an I1 M253 from the Northern Alps that ended up in Scotland. It belongs to the larger IJ group which is the lineage of Abraham.
11:58 You sound welsh! Maybe I1 influenced the welsh language? Highest I1 % in UK is southwest Wales! Anyway, I'm English..did you mention Toft? I have Toft relatives on my Dad's side: his mum's Maiden name was Toft..is that Danish?
Germanic tribes brought blond hair and blue eyes to Scandinavia. There was a mixture with I1 carriers, which gave rise to the later Vikings. The Vikings in turn engaged in brisk slave trade, the slaves became free after 1-2 generations and integrated into the Vikings. The Goths had mainly R1b-U106. I am almost 50% Goth myself and belong to Z159. Most of those who belong to I1 have darker skin than Germanic, have black hair and brown eyes. Due to the fact that Germanic tribes mixed with I1 carriers in Scandinavia, certain genetic traits have passed to them. In some cases, I1 carriers also have blue eyes and brown hair because the mother is Germanic. Thousands of Germanic graves have been found in Europe. In the German state of Hesse alone, more than 400. A large part of them has already been evaluated. There were also other haplogroups, like I1, but only to a small extent. The majority of the Germanic people belonged to subgroups of R1b-U106.
I1a isn’t solely Scandinavian though, my paternal line is linked to Chasseen Rouen culture of Southern France, as stated by Maciamo May 27, 2020 about my paternal Neolithic cousin sample CX161
Conclusion regarding I1 : both ancient French samples are older than current age estimates for those clades. It is the first compelling evidence that some I1 branches are not of Scandinavian/Germanic origin.
There is a very simple and obvious explanation why the earlier Ahrensberg culture in Scandinavia fared better than further south in Europe: Population density. With plenty of land for both the old population and the newcomers there simply was no need to fight so people settled relatively peacefully. It's just a theory of course but it's a plausible one.
I'd love to know what company you suggest for a DNA/genealogy test. I'm so interested to know more about my ancestors but I'm hesitant to pursue a test as some of these companies are sketchy.
23&me
I went with a smaller firm called CRI Genetics. They give u the option (or did when I ordered mine at least) to either have them mail ur sample back or destroy it, which was comforting. Also, I had made a small mark on my swab so I could tell if it was mine, and sure enough it was. But yeah, if ur worried about DNA companies selling off ur information to the highest bidder like I was, I would recommend CRI. There are also a ton of separate health and genotype/phenotype tests that they perform and u can unlock those as well. It's all very interesting.