He Stalked Her and Streamed it on Twitch
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2022
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Please don't forget about Christina Grimmie. She was a TH-cam singer she did a concert for her fans back in 2016 and was signing autographs inside the venue after the show when her stalker opened fire on her after she opened her arms to give him a hug. killing her and then turned the gun on himself afterwards. she later died in hospital.
oh my god wtf
I remember i used to listen to her music. 💔
@@briano9397 it’s just sick ppl in general
@@briano9397 This isn't an American thing stalkers exist everywhere.
@@briano9397 Not a healthy mindset to group a massive selection of people with wackos like this.
The worst part is how 911 treated her, and the fact that police won't do anything unless physical harm comes to the victim. That and the people blaming HER for being stalked must make her feel so unsafe and afraid. I feel so bad for her.
She hasn't made a police report though... they can't really do anything until she takes that step
@@ttboosted7634 do you know nothing? Amoranth's stalker tried to literally break into her house, she called 911 and the operator was dismissive with her and it took over 30 minutes for the police to respond.
It pisses me off too and I don’t use that phrase lightly
I think it’s because some people may abuse that like “hey this guy threatened me” even though the guy did not do anything. But in this case the police should never be dismissive of anything even if majority of reports is false in the case that its true then they’re there.
The police CAN'T do anything until a law is actually broken. It's on the politicians to actually make anti-stalker laws that work.
I was just listening to the Wine About It podcast where QT and Maya were talking about stalkers. The most insane thing to me is how little law enforcement cares. Maya literally had to contact police three or four times with evidence of someone threatening to kill her and her family and got shrugged off or told they couldn't do anything each time. When she finally found an officer who would help her, it was a 25 y/o who used twitch and understood the culture around it. Absolutely insane how long it took her to get someone to give a shit.
its the laws sadly those are the things that need to be updated
@@n3v3rforgott3n9 its not just the laws, its the policeforce too
@@rae6982 if the police have their hands tied an cant do anything to the person before they do something extreme it is the laws
@@n3v3rforgott3n9 stop defending police inaptitude
@@wtfisggon7251 realize your own bias first
I've modded for Brooke for a while now, and she's been dealing with these stalkers for over 2 years. She had to delete her public Discord server as well as stop interacting with most people on the internet. It's believed to be ex-mods before her blow up on Twitch that are doing it. It sucks and is totally unfair because she's literally the nicest/sweetest person
The ex-mods part is really sad, or terrifying, probably both
I guess the fact that she is so nice and sweet, is why she's having this happen to her. Really sucks the way the world works
Plot twist - You are the stalker.
@@roastiplays39 No plot twist: you are not funny AT ALL.
that shit is straight up disturbing,, brooke is so sweet! and its horrible what she has to deal with.
Christina Grimmie is the best and unfortunately the worst example for such situations. If anyone says anything about those women exaggerating or blowing it out of proportion, remember that Christina died because she was killed by her stalker
She's not the only one, either. I have a crappy memory but there was a young blonde woman who was also murdered by a stalker. It's in the video that Anita and Janet made (with a male streamer whose name I cannot remember; he was also stalked and basically he was forced off of social media by his stalkers). I am sure there are even more fatal instances that I have not heard of.
She was so sweet.. 😞
@@risachi6018 Yes, she really was. 'Only the Good die young.'
it's a risk women take when they rely on very low quality men in the world to fund their career
@@michaelangst6078 Go look up Christina Grimmie. She didn't rely on LOW QUALITY MEN. She was a sweetheart and a born performer. EVERYBODY liked her. She could have had one of the biggest careers ever, she just needed better security.
Maybe you want to do some real research before making asinine statements like you did here.
I absolutely hate how people are trying to justify this behavior. "Its their fault for steaming so lewd!" They are still people. Also even if they are lewd on the internet that is not a free pass to harass them and stalk them. Its just awful people trying to justify their sick desires without getting pushback.
People who justify the guys actions and defend them and blame her are people who do shit like him or want to do shit like that as well. Bunch of creepy incels. Its absolutely not any girls fault that they get stalked no matter what they do online and saying it is is so fucked up
I wish we could track any weirdo who is defending dangerous stuff like this and perma ban them from watching any content with a women on the internet. They are fuckin sick in the head
The thing is it has nothing to do with their clothes or actions. BrookeAB just chats and plays games, while wearing a hoodie, just like Valkyrae or QTCinderella, and they get insane death-threat stalkers just as much as women who DO play up the sexual side like Amouranth. This kinda proves that it has nothing to do with the women's choices.
Even the nonlewd female streamers get blamed for this crap. It seems like just openly being a woman on the internet is enough for people to say they deserve to be stalked and harassed.
Only the sick freaks try to justify this
This is a whole general issue with the treatment of women in spaces like this.
I studied ComSci for 5 years at university, at a rate of 5 women to around 150 men, the amount of terrifying things and conversations I had with men. From people grabbing and feeling up my thighs during lectures, to people just 'randomly' dropping by at stores and shops near me, just bumping into me, even tho they didn't live in the same city as me was crazy to man at the university bar pushing me against a wall drunk telling me how he knew I was easy because I once bent over while he was in the room (I didn't know who he was before that.)
Every woman I studied with has stories like this, and I was one of the lucky ones, enough tattooes and a mouth like sailor, I was not the easy target.
holy shit. thats horrifying
It's so insane to me that anyone still responds to these sort of situations with "why don't you just go to the police"
It is so depressingly well-documented that cops are basically useless in these situations. "Let us know if you die" is not a meme, it's almost literally their standard operating procedure when someone is being stalked.
As the old saying goes: "When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away."
I'm so incredibly pissed off about how much victim blaming going on around this recent incident. Like because Ammouranth does OF or dresses in a certain way she wanted/ encouraged this. This argument is incredibly stupid to anyone with a functioning brain who doesn't hate women, but so many people threw it around. And the same arguments are made less, but still too much, about how being any woman on the internet is asking to be stalked whenever this happens to anyone no matter how they dress or what types of content they do. I've heard about someone who just played games, didn't make content or anything and got stalked by someone in her clan's discord server and saw people blaming her
Thank you for this comment. I try my best to avoid reading threads like these cause they make me lose so much faith in humanity. Blaming Brooke for being a gold digger, Amouranth for her content, Not knowing the 6 months regarding Anita, etc. It s so delusional and insane. Theyre literally just living and working a job they love
I really do think you misunderstand a lot of the realities about this though.
It's not that they do that, it's that they do that _independently_. People who actually do porn, people who actually marry actual millionaires etc have a support system; these people just don't because they don't understand.
A lot of younger people don't understand the extreme precautions that go into being an active, independent person. I am independent in the field of music and I can't do 90% of what you can do in life. When you're actively earning and you're independent; you have to stick very tightly to what you NEED to do for your own safety and longevity. Twitch and independent adult work is different in that there's a massive aspect to it that is fueled by peoples own narcissism. People love me so _i shouldn't have to do those things_. That couldn't be less true.
I worked with this one really popular singer, right? Tickets to his shows are $85. 20k people a night easy, that's $1.7m a night without VIPS. How much do you think he gets from that? Less than a grand, the money goes to keeping the machine going and there's literally $200k a night being spent on _keeping him safe_. Streamers don't want to do those things because they think they deserve that money.
When you do adult work, when you do direct interactions with people YOU NEED TO PAY FOR SERVICES TO KEEP YOU SAFE.
@@joevent it's just wild because I want to ask guys like that- "what do you want them all to do then, go home? pack it up and not do the content? you're the ones salivating over it! you'd lose your minds!"
Very good point, the fact that stalkers give streamers like Brooke and Lulu so much attention should be proof of that, nothing about their content is sexual in nature and yet they still have creeps after them! Common sense says that if someone is posting flirty messages on their only fans then that’s advertisement, not an invitation. Just because someone shares or posts content that others may find unsavory doesn’t mean they deserved to be harassed, stalked or put in danger for it.
Regular, everyday women just going about their lives have to deal with stalkers too so that's that BS. Those creeps will act like that regardless of how she dresses
on wine about it maya told her stories, and one of them was her discussing how the police essentially told her “we cant do anything about someone being mean online”- like im convinced the police truly have no grasp of what stalking is in the digital age. its just horrifying that theres no help for people in this scenarios
you have no idea how much good you’re doing. as a large male streamer you have no obligation to talk about this, but you’re doing it anyway which is a really big help to the cause. thank u lud
I have 2 young daughters. Too young for social media and gaming just yet but I'm seriously concerned about them being apart of that one day. I always dreamed of one day gaming with my kids but the abuse woman get online is sickening. Glad you're spreading the word about this Ludwig. Who knows you've probably helped someone realize they're being a creep and potentially saved a victim. Delusional is the perfect word to describe these people.
Sadly if girls want to experience online games without harassment, the only option is to disable voice chat entirely
@@lacuna3693 or create a layer and put them in their place. can't all be snowflakes... thats exactly what they (those guys who do harras etc) expect from ''woman''. to stay quiet and comply..
@@dreaming4ffr it's got nothing to do with being 'snowflakes'
What some women receive online is constant without respite. It's also idiotic to think that the problem is the people getting insulted and abused.
Maybe some of them do need to toughen up a little because people online have always been dicks, but is it really too much for them to ask that they be able to enjoy playing multiplayer games without receiving abuse just because they're female?
We as a society should be better than that.
@@dreaming4ffr Speaking as a woman, this is possibly the worst response to online encounters. In the best case scenario, people in your lobby will just treat you like any other dude. Worst case? You get harassed, death/rape threats, or even a dox (which has happened to me and my friends a few times). “Putting [harassers] in their place” in an already hypertoxic environment just means more harassment, more backhanded comments, more trolling, etc. I could not count how many games I’ve had where someone has given up and started sabotaguing the team solely because I (or other people in the lobby) spoke back to some misogynistic shit he’s said. Neither option is “good”, and it obviously varies on a case-by-case basis (for instance, it’s a lot easier to talk back when you’re queued with other people in a lobby), but never do you stand to gain from responding to assholes in VC. Really just a mute and move on kind of situation, the same thing you’d do even if the aggressor wasn’t some flaming misogynist
@@dreaming4ffr sadly most of them don’t care and get motivated from ur reaction to piss you off even more
Reminds me of that time there was a 4chan thread dedicated to "exposing" Ash and meeting her irl to blackmail her over her private identity. They were planning on camping out her P.O. Box, too. And who knows what else they would've done if they had actually found her.
This shit is just,,, beyond creepy.
Being a female streamer is just terrifying, even if you never show your face.
You know it's gotten really bad when I'm not even surprised by hearing that story about Ash.
I'm glad more women are getting a concealed carry permit, the world is fucked.
Bro, I wish Reddit would just scrub away the NSFW stuff. Honestly
As a dude, I'm reminded of the Toast IRL stream where he gave fans money to find him visiting his hometown.
I can imagine that female streamers wouldnt feel safe to pull any stunt like that.
The internet has connected us all for better and worse
Except for the fact that multiple female streamers did it before him...?
@@noname-ng6sj I wouldnt know, i dont watch a lot of streams
Glad they felt safe enough to do it.
Sucks that it could attract stalkers, even to public events like TwitchCon
@@PlayerXIII They like money.
@@noname-ng6sj it’s funny how you feel so comfortable being openly misogynistic under these comments. you need a reality check, ur part of the problem.
He shouldn't have done that either. Male streamers can get stalkers as well. It is much less likely, but not impossible.
it is so fucking terrifying to be a female streamer on twitch knowing that you inevitably will just have to deal with stalkers
Its terrifying to be a female
Yeah,its really sad that it happens like I remember a streamer (it was either QT, Fuslie, or Brooke) saying every streamer she knows had to deal with a stalker :(
@@oswk9 lowkey but only with certain people
A huge problem is that the police don’t do enough with stalkers
@@oswk9 I was gonna make a really offensive joke but I don’t feel like it
Feel free to be offended at your own will
Absolutely insane how little protection that platforms and law enforcement give to people being stalked and harassed. We need to do better.
I’m getting tired of people blaming law enforcement for not dealing with stalkers. The police don’t make the laws if you have a problem with it be mad at the law makers not the cops. Police can only act within the confines of the law.
Edit: Stalking in Texas is not following someone. You also have to be threatening the person.
So quit commenting stalking is illegal if you don’t know what the actual law is.
@@hivemind8817 Well even if the police don't directly have the right to arrest someone they can generally tell people to vacate an area due to them being a disturbance or some such vague loitering law. Then this is put in an incident report. Then a few incident reports and you get a restraining order. Then that person can be arrested.
Just because the police wont be able to directly arrest someone is not a reason for them not to care/show up.
@@hivemind8817 But the thing is that they aren't doing that. Stalking itself is illegal but often they won't do shit until the stalker doesn't break into your house, physically attack you or harass sexually. They are supposed to act BEFORE it happens. If a weirdo is camping for 40 days outside of a woman's home and they are admitting that they are stalking that person they have to be arrested and charged with stalking, not after it happens. You're defending the cops with a common argument that doesn't even apply here, stalking is illegal but police don't feel like doing anything if the stalker doesn't move on to committing other crimes against their target.
@@hivemind8817 Police act outside of the confines of the law all the time when they encounter people they don't like.
@@hivemind8817 There are laws against stalking but police dont do shit about it
The way SweetAnita talked about stalkers as just a normal part of her life during her interview with Anthony Padilla was terrifying. I hate how it is just a thing female streamers are forced to deal with. I think Poki was the one who talked about it being safer to keep moving from apartment to apartment instead of investing in a property and risk someone finding the address…
Calling out the “too far but not stalker level” behavior might help, but part of me is worried that it will just push some farther down their rabbit hole…
I feel like it's even worse when you are a small female streamer because they know that you have to pay attention to them since their the only ones in chat. I used to stream, only wore hoodies and would only play games but the times when someone would come into chat, they'd either tell me a sob story and then ask me out or they'd be a really nice chatter who would then ask me out after being a chatter for several days. It's crazy! Luckily, none have tried to learn where I live but mind you, I had only been streaming for 3 months at that point. Scary stuff.
Weirdos
Exactly. I ended up quitting just because even though you get used to hearing the comments after a while it still affects you and can get into your head. Especially when that’s pretty much the only comments that you’ll get for days, even had one guy tell me a whole sob story on discord after joining the tiny server I had and then as you said, proceeded to ask me out.
I'm not gonna lie, reading the dms brooke posted on twitter was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen. I can't even imagine how she must have felt. Then I read the thread Amouranth posted and once again, I felt like I was reading a script of a thriller. This shit is unreal. I really hope that something will be done about this.
I know internet does internet things, but holy shit reading the ones scraping for reasons to victim blame the content creators are insane
her hidden replies on every post are even worse.
The really terrifying part is that this is not 'unreal' at all, it is VERY real. That SUCKS!
@@joevent Yeah, those are bottom-of-the-barrel-dwellers. Real Trolls, not even Human.
This is just absolutely insane. Women in gaming/live-streaming have absolutely nightmare level situations. I wish there’s a solution to issues like this.
With a big enough audience, everyone is in danger.
yeah, you are right but that doesn't apply to this case because you don't see many male streamers having to deal with stuff like this
@@darwinjackson3560 it seems like you're replying to the comment and not to the reply above you.
@@potato_dbd Your unironically part of the problem if you cant see how being a woman in this space turns up the dial.
Not trying to be a jerk, just saying, you need to open your eyes to reality a bit. Especially when you have dudes who are majorly succesful streamers constantly talking about how insane it is for women.
there is a really simple solution for this. the police actually listen to the women when they say they're in danger and being stalked.
although not a woman, i do have a high pitched voice still because i’m a trans guy, and get harassed every time i enter a voice channel in a public discord or game. it’s terrifying. i’m terrified every time. i dunno if they’re gonna clock me as trans or if they’re gonna clock me as female, both are horrible. i’m glad more cis guys are talking about this because it’s terrifying, it’s one of the only reasons i don’t play FPS games anymore because all of the communities hate my kind of people lol. it needs to be talked about.
@depressed bones Trust me, there is nothing borderline about this.
My mother's ex did this to her for a whole year after we all showed up and got her out safely from her old apartment away from him. Sent flowers, angry emails, texts calls. He was texting my sisters and then texted me once and I told him to fuck off and I called the police. I told them he was harassing my entire family because my mom left him and the cops said unless he shows up at my mom's door with a gun there's nothing they can do. She lives with her brother now and he still once in a while makes new accounts and harrasses her. God damn psycho.
I'm gonna be honest, there's a woman streamer I really enjoy (as a content creator ya weirdos!) and (a) she's talked a lot about how stalkers have changed her life, but (b) her chat (like a small percent, but still) is just .... so cringe. Like I get there's a massive leap between "coomers" and stalkers, but idk, maybe it's time we normal viewers crack down on this shit. Like just 4weird the hell out of these guys, idk. Like it sucks, this sucks. *I* was scared of ever being on camera, and I'll (hopefully) never in my life experience what these women experience *every day*. Idk, thanks Lud for using your platform for talking about this, it just really makes me sad.
The worst part about this comment is that I don't know which streamer you're referencing because too many are coming to mind that have had this kind of experience.
Excellent message. I fully support it.
But broooooo, you cannot be saying "let's crack down on it" and then proceed to say "4weird the hell out of these guys" LMAO. I understand it's not a solution you actually think would work, it's just so funny to read though.
It's sad to say but I don't think there's really a solution to this. There will always be a crazy person who will catch something that will enable them physically locate a streamer. It might only be 1 guy out of thousands, but that one guy is all it takes. And sadly I don't think people telling them to stop will make them stop.
the problem is these people are far more united than the normal people. whenever a normal viewer calls them out their buddies tend to drown them out instantly. the normal person gets barely any support. at least that's my experience on youtube.
Definitely 😬. Even though not all weirdos in chat will become stalkers of course, some are just immature kids, some are just insensitive trolls trying to 'be funny', some are low-self esteem people who gain a sense of power from making someone else uncomfortable. But if someone offered you like 50 donuts and said 'btw, most of these are normal donuts, but one has rat poison in it and will kill you if you eat it'... You're not gonna take the chance to try *any* of those donuts. No matter the motivation of the person making these kinds of messages, whether they are kids/teens who 'don't know better', or someone honestly misreading the room and making a poor joke, they deserve to all be met with the same unapologetic response of 'you're being weird, stop it.'
We don't need a community or chat where the genuine stalkers to be, can feel safe expressing and cultivating their growing obsession. People's lives are genuinely at stake, it takes like 2 seconds of a viewers time, just help call out weirdo's.
(also, ngl, also watch Jroses channel regularly, he's a really cool dude, check him out if you're into Pokémon!)
It's crazy and insane the number of delusional people out there that are convinced someone is in love with them when that person doesn't even know who they are... Please don't stalk people smh.
It's mental illness, the mind perception is so dramatically warped from realility.
@@callumfinlayson-palmer8393 100% it really is.
Police won't do jack shit, even in mass murder scenarios. Look up Legal Eagel video about why Police doing nothing at school shooting won't face anything negative. THis has some precedence cases - 1. Social worker was visiting some guy and his son. It was reported for years that son was abused, landed in hospital, had brusises etc. Kid died, his mother sue social workers to not doing anything. Verdit? "Govarment worker arn't obligated to protect client citizen"... 2. Some guy was abusive, his wife took kids and file restraining order that was accepted. Guy kidnapped kids, for 24h police done nothing cause "restraining order" isin't obligation for action, lol. Next day guy killed 3 kids and himself, Woman sue the Police. Verdict? "Police force aren't obligated to act and protect citizens"
Brooke's stalker has also been an ongoing thing so I'm not surprised she doesn't want to go to twitch con. He's been stalking her for literal years and she's tried to deal with it with even the FBI being involved at one point but literally nothing has come out of it and he keeps creating new accounts coming into her chats and twitter replies with personal info about her family including addresses and making threats. It's actually insane
I'm from Estonia and it goes without saying that this is disgusting. It's sad to see some weirdo giving us a bad name. Stay safe, I hope more people come to their senses.
Same i feel shit and its sad that there is lot of veitreke here and it makes me mad
Same dude
Same. and as a woman i cannot imagine how SHE felt. i would be terrified.
Same here. I was honestly so shocked to see this as well cause that was the first time I've seen Estonia being mentioned by bigger creators, but the most shocking part really has to be that somebody went out of their way to stalk and harass somebody like this.
I feel terrible for every person who has to deal with any sort of stalker, it is crude and vile. Content Creators should be able to live normal lives and enjoy the perks of being a content creator without some sicko stalking them to hell, many women deal with this because there are many no-life men who think a parasocial relationship means something. That Gavin Free story still resonates with me. I feel terrible and hope there can be something done with dealing with stalkers and psychopaths in the near future!
Yeah that Gavin Free shit is crazy. It's just wild how someone can literally never interact with someone personally and somehow come to the conclusion that they hate them enough to want to kill them.
From what I remember Gavin and Meg were hiding in a closet, while the intruder was unknowingly in the same room with them when police rolled up.
it's sad that women can't have a break, even if they openly talk about it
sweet anita dealt with stalkers all the time and seeing another creepy guy to text her is devastating
the stalker laws are insane. Maya talked about it on Wine About It and it made my skin crawl. Its way too proactive, when talking directly to someone people might need to be held accountable for their words. If people abuse the freedom of speech to say they want to sexually assault someone they should be repercussions for that. Making someone else live in fear needs to be punishable.
However if people start getting thrown in jail for things like this they're not going to stop when they get out because american prisons doesn't rehabilitate at all. Clearly stalkers are sick and need help but they'll never be prioritized
The difference in a male streamer's chat and and female streamer's chat is crazy, even if the content is mild the very fact they're a woman is what's sexualised. now i don't think everyone's a psychotic stalker like this but, it seems most people are okay with making uncomfortable sexual jokes & remarks when it comes to female streamers & content creators.
I hope the women and possibly even some men of Twitch and other influencers don't have to live their life in fear. Such a waste of time to have to deal with stalkers.
I dunno I don't have much sympathy for someone who builds their stream off of male thirst and then gets super upset when there is natural consequences to that.
@@rousalka4517 Selling all of your belongings going to another country to camp out for 44 days is natural to you? Good to know
@@demandedcargo3919 naw, but when you make large sums of money off of male thirst then you basically have to expect the weirdos/perverts like who in their fucking right mind goes "I'm gonna lick an ear mic for 2 hours" and just think the people who watch that aren't fucking derranged
@@rousalka4517 Uh… even if someone IS building their content off of that, doesn’t mean that literal crimes such as stalking is suddenly okay and less harmful or bad to commit just because of that. And why do you respect them less? What’s the reason?
@@rousalka4517 Bro stalking and harassment isn't a "natural consequence," it's a crime. You're part of the problem here. Reflect on the choices you've made in your life.
What's sad is that it isn't even Twitch. I've had friends who have had to move states multiple times due to stalkers. It is just not right at all. I hope all of the women out there stay safe.
Thanks for covering the topic Lud.
That’s fucking sick. I have no clue what has to go through a person’s mind for them to act out in this way. I’m so sorry to *anyone* who’s had to go through something like this. It’s disgusting behaviour.
@Y Y being male, mostly lol
I've even had a stalker because of my TH-cam and this was before I even had 50 subscribers. I was 19. He was the guy that took yearbook photos for my school, he was in his 70s and would watch the 4 videos I had at the time on repeat.
My brother's coworker was friends with the man and when she met me, she warned me about what she had witnessed; him replaying those 4 videos over and over again.
It started out innocent enough; help with lighting, backgrounds and what not and I listened because he was a photographer but it didn't stay that way for long. He eventually started harassing me for new videos (I stopped posting because of him) and then started harassing my fiance when he asked him to leave me alone (I asked him to do so because he wouldn't leave me alone even when I asked). My fiance had to threaten him before he finally stopped reaching out. I blocked him every where and stopped making videos for years. I did eventually come back but I ended up taking another extended hiatus that I'll hopefully be ending soon. I've done a lot of learning while on hiatus so when I do return, I will feel safe.
We should absolutely hold platforms more accountable for fostering and allowing creepy behaviour like the 'tribute's and more
Bonus tip for yall: dont make jokes about being a stalker. It's a real threat for many streamers (and other influencers and even people on the internet in general) so even if you're joking, it is not ok. I know youre thinking "what? Who would make such a joke?" But ive seen plenty of chatters saying things online like "i can see u in the window" or "what if im in ur house right now." It's not funny, it's uncomfortable for everyone and hurtful for people online personally affected by stalking. Dont condone this behavior with lols or repeating the joke. If it stops being the norm to make this sort of joke, then itll be that much easier to identify people who are real threats and we can make the internet safer.
Exactly, we really gotta start discouraging ppl from acting / joking like this. Just hit them with a WeirdChamp or FeelsWeirdMan and keep it moving. No need to give them any more attention than that.
This is scary on so many levels. First of all, The story of BrookeAB is fucking heartbreaking, not being able to do the things she do and work as she normally can because some delusional psychopath sends deaththreats and shit. Second of all, It's not always about delusions. When somebody openly states "I am going to stream every minute of camping outside her P/O-box and create new accounts if I get banned is not delusional, it's calculated and it's fucking disgusting.
As a former professional gamer, even as a man, I have been forced to deal with parasocial encounters that were scary. Threats about getting killed if I showed up to a LAN (Which I did anyway because I was young and fucking stupid) (I am still alive, obviously) but that doesn't come fucking close to what female streamers and gamers have to deal with on a daily basis. You think that we evolved from the fucking middle ages into something better than this.
The story about Christina Grimmie is the one I will carry with me for the rest of my life. I loved her voice and her music, and as an aspiring musician, it made me scared of pursuing a career in music, (which I wouldn't have achieved anyway, because let's face it; I am NOT that great lol) and went into becoming a youth therapist instead.
It's not just Twitch and TH-cam that needs to do better, WE, as a collective unit of people, need to fucking do better. Twitch and TH-cam, however, need to have 2-way authentications that prohibit people from making new accounts as soon as they get banned. Being on the internet is not a fucking right, it's a privilege, and if you behave like a fucking piece of shit, you need to be held accountable for it. Laws needs to be updated and ratified, and people on all levels need to talk about it on a serious level.
This made me fucking sad.
2FA could be a big step forward, but I don't see them doing any time soon, twitch would lose user base for sure and youtube is very open for it's nature, you can watch it without having an account even.
It's a shit reality and I really hope I am wrong here, but it's unlikely
i am being stalked right now by my ex and its very hard to do anything about it. i moved because he threatened to come to my house and "make me pay." i dont even know what to do about it. it started a year ago and hes still finding my friends online and threatening them and me. nobody in power can stop him because he hasnt physically done anything yet. i dont go outside much out of fear that hes going to get me, but i know thats exactly what he wants. i hope the system for dealing with this improves- im sure more people are getting stalked and harassed than gets taken care of. cops dont do anything until its too late, and i hope that doesnt happen to any of the streamers mentioned (or myself).
This is by no means a complete solution to your situation and legally there needs to be a complete overhaul on how to deal with stalkers. With that being said, from the details you’ve provided here, there is enough evidence and personal accounts to file an order of protection (restraining order) against your ex. There’s a small chance that an OP will deter him from making contact but it will NOT stop him from deciding to ignore an OP continuing to try contact. What an order of protection will do is offer a legal safety cushion of sorts where there wasn’t before. Meaning if he try’s to contact you or any friends/family to discuss you in any way, shape or form be it in person or digitally he will be arrested for violating that order of protection.
Getting an OP will also give you legal protection within the court system if something were to happen regarding you and using self defense to handle the situation. It would protect you from the possibility of prosecution should any self defense claims be questioned… if you get where I’m going with that… idk what the TOS allow me to say with a touchy subject like that).
I know it’s not enough but I really hope this information offers you a sense of having even a tiny sliver of control back in your hands. I’m hoping for the best outcome for you.
It only takes 1 person to ruin or even end someone else’s life
It doesn't matter what the women streamer or in social media do or wear, they will always get a stalker or get harassement. Even if sure a few male streamer get also stalkers, it's mostly womengetting the worse of it and there's clearly something wrong with a lot of guys.
It's a slippery slope, a lot of men go through bullying in school for being shut ins or not good at talking with women, so this trauma develops more and more, they might get bullied by their families or friends for appearance, way of talking, etc. Not defending the stalker, but the problem resides in childhood trauma most likely. Then you have the oversexualization of everything around us these days, p*rn addiction is a serious issue, your mind wants more pleasure, and the line of weirdness becomes blurred, you need different things to get off, you start to go into harder kinks and if you have mental issues, these kinks could easily become something you want to do in real life. Sadly there is no clear solution to all of this. Can't ban p*rn and expect the problem go away. Can't ban bullying and expect to go away, this is something that needs to be taught and we need to deal with knowing it exist with the society.
@@doobster3650 yeah i agree, but I think he means a lot of guys more than it should. Like clearly it should be less common
@@doobster3650 lol and there's the expected "not all men" comment. I am also a guy btw. It's quite clear this is more of a problem of guys harassing woman than the other way around, so what they are saying actually is accurate. Don't take offense at a sentence like that when it clearly isn't targeted at you. You can be one of the "good" guys and still realize that there is a definite problem with the way lots of guys behave.
@@doobster3650 look up some statistics about sexual assault on women and tell me saying "a lot" isn't accurate. That doesn't mean "most", it means...a lot.
@@wasko_
Generalizations are always a shity thing that only ruffles the feathers of the ones being generalized. So Instead of defending "men bad" which helps no one, and only serves to divide people just keep talking about the actual issue here stalkers.
I personally think police not taking stalkers more seriously is the biggest problem.
This is one of the main reasons I discourage all my friends-but especially my female friends-from streaming or producing content online. Too many fuckin weirdos and, in this country, those weirdos have a lot of access to guns while our law enforcement is as reliable as a day 1 BLJ. Just not worth it imo.
Yeah but that's so not fair. It's an impossible situation
Yeah but that only makes sexism and misogyny worse. We need women in content for representation. It’s an impossible situation
at this point everyone needs to make a "I am not your friend" video, idk why people think if u stalk someone they will fall in love with u- the exact opposite will happen.
Even when you know about this stuff and how messed up it is, the details end up SHOCKING you. The fact that law enforcement doesn't take this shit seriously is heartbreaking. Maya talked about her experiences with law enforcement regarding stalkers on Wine About It if anyone wants to check it out. Thanks for covering this topic, Ludwig!
Most men will never know what women go through, just for being a female online.
A few broken, pathetic men can cause real damage with words.
NOBODY should have to feel unsafe or threatened in their own home's or communities. Lets just hope these people get the help they need, or at least destroy themselves before they hurt others.
Most men are good and have an understanding that the women they see online are people, not things.
So sad these animals pretending to be men ruin things for everyone.
Some men do I was one that had an issue with a women who was stalking me for awhile.
@@SirDinielFortesque Yeah, most men.
@@seeps9353 most??
The fact that of the top of my head I can think of 4 other female streamers who deal/have dealt with stalkers that weren't mentioned in this video is fucking insane. Why can't people just fucking let women exist on the internet? This whole situation is terrifying.
As someone who has seen this content before, and as someone who a few years ago may have been involved in the gateways to the types of stuff talked about on Reddit, which I am sorry for, theres a few steps streamers and community members can take:
Firstly, content creators doing videos like yours about the topic and condemning Reddit for it, it seems that they hate the negative publicity and will do anything to remove it.
Secondly, tell audiences to report the subreddits! Might seem simple but alot of the subreddits and the ongoing, as its called in the communities "Mass Nuke" on Discord is caused by streamers and viewers going and mass reporting subreddits and discord servers until they get them banned.
Thirdly, Discord and Reddit BOTH need to implement measures to stop previously banned users making new accounts to do the same thing. Its wayy to easy to just make a few accounts and if one gets banned just use another, especially since its usually the owners account that gets banned and not actually the server/subreddit involved.
Fourthly, get TH-cam and PH, and other sites, to remove the weird Jerk Off Videos that are on the platforms, therefore removing a way of entry for alot of people.
Or just removing PH type of sites
I really enjoy listening to Lud make regular comments and videos about the problems that women face when trying to have a career in entertainment- more specifically streaming and video making. He has a decently sized audience and while a lot of men share similar views, it's really great for the entertainment space to have more men putting these sentiments and ideas out there.
i genuinely enjoy you recapping recent events on here, very entertaining.
@just i c e BatChest NO WAY
@Don't Read My Profile Photo oh nyo i just did
@Don't Read My Profile Photo O.k.a.y.I.w.o.n'.t.
The bots are relentless holy shit
@@RetroCube literally every comment has one, it’s actually insane
It's crazy that stalkers harassment death threats yet ppl will still say "YoU hAve It Ez bC uR a GurL"
Exactly
They put themselves out there monetizing their sexuality for views and expected no repercussions? Waow - just how entitled some people are. And I say this as a naturally born female.
@@SmoothCode i see where youre coming from. But I think the problem is they dont feel safe. They should be able to do all this without being scared in their own home. Im a straight guy (though that is not relevant)
My own friend in college was getting stalked by someone in her class. It was terrible. And she did nothing wrong. All she did was be in his class. And before people say she may have dressed in some way... she almost always just wore baggy, black sweats lmao. The least suggestive clothing you can have
Thank you for using your platform to address this. It’s so terrifying to hear these stories but when police don’t do anything about it the best way to protect yourself and others from this in my opinion is letting as many people know as possible.
Always good to see large make streamers talk about these kinds of things, hats off!
Man: why won’t women love me
Also man: does t h i s
@just i c e Don't spread your OnlyFans here
@just i c e finally its here, a comment nobody asked for.
its kind of crazy how there are laws against stalking and such, like its actuall illegal and a form of harassment but police keep saying they cant do anything about it.... just seems like they dont want to deal with it until someone actually gets hurt and scarred
The police legally aren't here to protect us and that is enshrined in a supreme court decision. They are just an occupying military force to protect property.
It's because police unions allow worthless slug officers to exist. If a police officer doesn't investigate a serious stalking incident, will he get fired, will get punished, will he get disciplined? Being a police officer is one of the few jobs that exists where it's almost impossible for you to get in trouble for poor performance.
Big problem is that stalking laws need to be redefined. If you look at the legal code around it for most states it's extremely vague and barely mentions electronic communications at all. That ambiguity only gives more time for people to get hurt.
Problem is there are people out there they will report people for stalking them just because they don't like someone.
@@SirDinielFortesque That's what due process is for. The idea that false reports are a rampant problem is simply not true.
This reminds me of when bestdressed had a stalker come to her apartment and the first police station she went to laughed in her face..
It’s weird to me how people threatening the lives of people and their families is considered "Not enough to take action", but the second it’s towards a government official, even the FBI is on your ass immediately, much less the local PD. I hear of people getting in legal trouble for telling people to kill themselves, so how does it make sense to allow people to tell others that they’re going to kill/hurt/rape them or their families?
I mean i get being really into a woman, BUT 250 PAGES ABOUT SOMEBODY YOU'VE NEVER TALKED TO!? I don't think i could write 250 pages about all of my friends combined
I'm sure he talked to her through at least the stream's chat box.
@@gyroninjamodder maybe one message got read out but thats probably it
Even smaller streamers have stalkers, mostly internet stalkers but its still insane.
I mean. Even before streamers were a thing, there was always stalkers. Doesn’t have to be famous to have a stalker. So everyone be careful
@T S yea it does but I’m just saying to everyone to be careful since it can really just happen to anyone
I had a stalker 4 years ago when I streamed to 14 people. They would message my family and friends asking what my plans were for “surprises”. I know I’m likely one of the fewer cases of men getting stalked but it’s scary that there’s 0 punishment for that type of behavior and frankly very little that you can do about it.
Thanks man! I wish more people would talk about this stuff. Good vid.
Feels like the people who defend these abnormal behaviors like stalking or tributes are actually the ones who do these kinds of things in the first place
I can't imagine how the people that are being used in coom tributes feel, like one day you're just a normal guy/gal streamin' the next you're on reddit and you just see a video of someone getting their rocks off of you acting normal.
For better or for worse, I don't think the people streaming see those videos on reddit.
Honestly, I don't know if it's better for them to be aware that they exist or to remain blissfully ignorant of them.
@@WanderTheNomad sadly I believe A LOT of them know, qt has talked a lot about it but if you type female streamers' names on reddit (to search for their subreddit for example) at least one nsfw subreddit will pop up. It's a well known "secret" that many keep because they don't want to bring more attention to it.
@@monicag6076 wow, I just tested that and it’s true. That’s crazy
This always has been one of the craziest cultural shocks I've ever came across since I moved to the States, hearing about my female friends stalkers. I come from Brazil, and I rarely hear about stalkers in Brazil (we do have other bigger issues going on there, don't get me wrong). And if there is some level of stalking they are usually trying to get info about you to rob you. But when I heard about stalkers that are obsessed with my friends I was shocked. After much thought and conversation with people about the topic, it seems like obsessive behavior always exist, but in cultures that there is a lack of social inclusion and basic communication and moral teachings from childhood, those people who lack those skills tend to be isolated from society from a physical or emotional way that they never learn how to deal with certain emotions and those emotions turn those people into predators with animalistic irrational thinking. But I'm no professional in the field of psychology, this is just my basic conclusion after multiple conversations and thought put into this subject.
Shutting down room for compromise and discussion is almost the backbone of Western culture and it's fair to see how it forms extremist groups. Even ludwig's suggestion to try and take the subreddit down could be represented as such "just make it go away" attitude. Will result only in more judgement, resentment, and echo chambers for those with similar "unprocessed" (explicitly in quotes) feelings to foster.
I remember a video about radicalization where it was explained that a more effective approach would be to create spaces where they're expected to not be as extreme, but not judged for it. Unfortunately, this is probably impossible to do on the internet as is (which is why the video was talking in the scope of "potential friends and family". That may not exists for these people though.
@@KingButcher if you silence then from being in the open they will fester in the dark and get even worse
least if its in the open you can see it coming
@@n3v3rforgott3n9 I don't know is being open is better. The biggest forum/ online hangout place in Poland outside of facebook, recently celebrated that Poland was officialy the worst place in EU for LGBT 3 years in a row scoring 13/100 and disscussing what to do to drop this number to 0. THis shit is talked by 100.000 to million people, fucking mainstream.
I get this too. Every morning when I brush my teeth, there is this weird freak just staring at me doing the exact same thing. I’ll keep you posted if it escalates.
Any updates?
You good, bro?
All these stalkers are tame, I'm so devoted to Ludwig I've been able to track down which planet he lives on
Gold
Reddit has a bunch of disturbing subreddits, i like using the platform but its clear that it needs to put some rules in order to make it a better platform.
Between the insanely creepy and dangerous subreddits where the mods basically have free reign, to the blatant political and sociological engineering that goes on, Reddit is a disaster.
@@peelsreklaw exactly. Ofcourse i understand its got NSFW but there is a big difference between you know, and subreddits like this.
Holy shit….Gavin is a big part of achievement hunter and always has been, I’ve loved achievement hunter for years, and it’s insane how that happened to him, I didn’t realize the extent of what happened with him either, that’s such a terrible thing
Anthony Padilla has a video with him other people with that situation
@@Rianoria I actually watched that after seeing this video and that’s so scary how someone you don’t know at all wants you dead to the point where they travel to where your home is
Ever since that happened gavin appeared less and less in ah videos.. I feel like it took a huge toll on him being on the internet everyday after that, understandably :(
Weird timing seeing this after getting harassed on my way to work this morning. This guy followed next to me on my bike overtaking traffic and slowing down when I would to ask me my name and where I work/when I’m off/ commenting on my appearance. I was so scared he was going to follow me the whole way but thankfully he turned off.
Just stopping to say this might be my favorite channel on TH-cam. Very glad you use your platform to bring major issues to light.
I am embarrassed to be an Estonian.
I'm sorry for your loss.
jk this doesnt mean all estonians are stalkers, I know most of you are probably good people, hope you have a great day Mr. Relix.
Should be
Dude you shouldn’t be ashamed of your culture/heritage just cause their are few bad eggs.
Bruh you are fine, Estonia is an amazing country with vast history. Just think of it like this every country has its weirdos Estonia has like a handful, US has like thousands lmao
Same
Crazy, the Texas police not being helpful? That’s unheard of!
It's a good thing they haven't had a similar problem within the past month, or this would look really bad for them.
Women and kids in need of help. Cricket from the police. You get caught with a gram of weed it's the swat after you. Texas police is a joke.
I openly identify as male and have for the entire time I've streamed on twitch and I've had men who said they would do things to me or obsessively ask me out and I've never broken over like 10 or 15 viewers it actually has scared me off streaming a bit and it sucks because i used to love it but now i'm just too scared lol like if that happens at that small a count, I can't even begin to imagine experiencing it at the higher amounts
Twitch does make the access more easily but this doesn't just happen to Streamers, I've had numerous stalkers for just existing. My worst case, aside from ex's was someone I never even knew - this guy saw me at a concert, tackled me like a tiger, and his friend tackled him off me. He proceeded to find me on my socials for a few months, writing me poetry and telling me I was an angel, that I was his soulmate and we were destined to be together, days and days of messaeges about what he wanted to do to me, hurt me or take advantage of me. He ended up institutionalized. I've had restraining orders on ex's. Men are just like this, so Men are the ones responsible for their bad behavior. This is why all women live in fear, clutch their keys in between their fingers when they walk alone from their car, send their geo-location to friends when they meet strangers for dates. You don't need a following for this to happen to you.
It's so easy as a man to forget what women have to put up with every day. Not just streamers with stalkers, but also every day women on the street having to deal with harassment from random creeps. I struggle to understand how these people don't have any remorse for the things they do or compassion for the people they supposedly like or, in these stalkers cases, claim to "love". They're pathetic.
Well done on using your platform to promote this message!
“Texas stand your ground law would’ve gladly seen that man peepeepoof”
Thank you for making this video. Stalkers plague a lot of people and the smaller streamers get this as well. As someone who's dealt with stalkers, the police are the most useless entities in this and will not do anything until something physical occurs. I've had some people literally threaten my animals and provided screenshots but my local police said "we can't do anything unless they hurt them"...Like WTF
Anyways please stay safe everyone and thank you for making this video Lud
scary how many men dont view women as human.
love this channel so much
It’s so awful female streamers have to deal with this, hell females in general. My sister recently had to deal with a stalker and she works at a bank. I don’t get how weirdos develop these ideas that they are so close to these people that just make entertainment.
I really hate that this is so prevalent and I hope people realize that this happens to creators of all sizes. I saw a channel that averaged about 100 viewers have a mini viewer exodus because the weirdos in her community felt betrayed by the reality that she wasn't in love with any of them - she never pretended to be. I average 15 viewers on a good day and I've had several weirdos who sounded so much like the guys in the video. It's terrifying. It has made me stream way less, change my work schedule and move. It shouldn't be this way.
Gavin and Meg's story was and is so scary, one of the reasons gavin took a huge step back from the internet :( it must be so scary that someone wants you dead because you're dating someone, could've turned out horribly.
I don't think it's just twitch. I made the mistake of posting a picture of myself on reddit. Being trans and hence growing up as a guy, I was under the delusion that it wasn't a huge huge problem, and it was only a few attractive women who suffer this stuff. I posted a picture of my transition and got 4 DMs in 5 minutes, including multiple dick pics, and one in particular that showed a man's sexual fluids everywhere. People confessing their love for me based off a single post that doesn't even show my face. I think its a genuine problem that needs to be worked on at a massive scale. The thought of doing anything like this to anyone needs to be taught to men as UNACCEPTABLE from the moment they start life. It's not an inherent behaviour for men either, so they HAVE to be learning from somewhere.
In a similar (but opposite? idk) vein, I'm transmasc and was socialized as a girl, so it's kinda ingrained in me to be super paranoid about my privacy and safety, no matter how far along in my transition I am. I feel like even if one day I were to pass, I'd still be hyper-aware of all the weird sexualization / fetishization shit ppl have to deal with. Idk really where I was going with this, but I guess I just wanna say that I'm sorry you had to deal with that 😞 It's tough out there, and I hope you're doing well ❤️🩹
@@sw4mpy Hey bro! Yeah, I've realised that as much as I have made such insane strides in my wellbeing since transitioning, people are cringe. I've often wondered if prior mindsets surrounding stuff like safety etc. have stuck for transmasc ppl the way it seems to with transfem ppl, cause in my experience, even tho I know that statistically I am the one at risk of being harmed, I find myself purposefully trying to make sure that I don't do ANYTHING that could even imply that I'm a pervert. It's a strange middle ground I feel, as on one hand there's a great number of people who think I'm a pervert bc I'm trans, then on another there's the fact that I'm more likely to be assaulted bc I'm trans. It's like one group of people think I'm a threat, then another think I'm trying to trick them, and then another think I'm some weird sex object. And I have no idea if someone is one of them, so its weird feeling of being sexualised, hated, and feared all at once....
Sorry yeah random thought spill aha. Hope you're doing well bro, its always nice encountering a fellow trans person online and just having that cool relatability of "did society fuck you up too?" lmfao :p
As a female, I guess I figured these things were happening but hearing the specifics-- WOW. It breaks my heart that female streamers are dealing with this. Absolutely terrifying. I think big platforms like Twitch and Reddit need to do more to support female content creators.
Besides twitch and reddit stopping them, (which they need to get on top off) I really want to see more people call people out on this.
Too many people in comment sections act weird and or sexual towards female streamers without being told they're weird. I think it'd help cut it back by a lot if more people made it known they'll be reprimanded
You do realize literally every streamer deals with this, right? You absolutely shouldn't say "female streamers". It's pretty fucking tone-deaf and out of touch.
@@noname-ng6sj please be satire
@@noname-ng6sj while yes it does happen to everyone, female streamers get more stalkers then male ones.
Why I'm glad VPNS are starting to get noticed it can make it safer for people to stream online.
literally the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned it happens to everyone female streamer in some way was the situation w meg turney and gav, was so glad you knew of it
I wasn't expecting to like these Mogul Mail videos so much, you're just really good at talking.
Stuff like this is just depressing... Can we just ship all these crazy people off to an island and forget about of em?
That's what we did back in the day and now we have Australia
@@SagesRS time to get that program back up. There’s plenty of Australian outback they can live in lmao
Bro when you said “I could be wrong, let me know” at the end like just imagine if someone in here argued that c*m tributes were an amazing part of Reddit 😭😂
i've been stalked and followed on 3 different occasions by 3 different males.
i've been stalked online by a guy spamming messages every few weeks for about 3 years. (even after blocking every new account they made)
the worst thing about all this, is that i felt so unsafe and got so paranoid i couldn't sleep, couldn't go outside.
couldn't get proper rest in my own home.
even a good morning message from a stalker felt like a death threat.
x for doubt.
I'm glad my best friend Ludwig is talking about how stalkers are harassing all my other best friends
Thank you fren Ludwig for recapping the weird crap has been going on.
Stalkers are not BOIS
I didnt know that those "tributes" existed and im utterly horrified. I started off not using cam because I hate the way I look but honestly I dont think I ever will even when I get to a place where im happy because that is seriously awful. Thank you for supporting us and for bringing attention and using your platform to try and help us.
I'm sorry! Even if you don't use the camera I hope you can get to a point where you are okay with the way you look! I suppose it's best to do that without it being validation from the internet anyways.
yeahh i find the tribute subreddits very weird. I mean sure tributes in themselves are not wrong. Its the lack of consent here. These women DO NOT want that and its a massive breach in trust and the feeling of safety. I know there are people who are in fact into the whole tribute thing. So that is ok since there is consent. But streamers who have not asked for it... yeah, dont. But the sickest part is, I think that nonconsent is the fun part for some of these people. its gross
Im a straight guy, some of these streamers/youtubers are very pretty. but will i stalk them? no. do a "tribute". ew, no. Will I think theyre pretty, watch their content, and do nothing harmful? yes
Its so easy to be a decent human being. these people need to do better
"move on to the next creator then in 6 months" " oh shit i havent watched ludwig in a while" "and binge all my content in a week" damn dude perfectly described me lol.
the people who subbed/donated to this guy are sick
Thanks for fighting the good fight Lud, but seems like a never ending battle to fight creeps on the internet. At least you are one of the decent ones.
reddit should ban those subreddits
8:11 I felt soo called out by that lmao
As an estonian, I do NOT support that man's actions.
It terrifying what this guy did but even more terrifying is the people who watched him and followed him on twitch! Twitch did nothing about it! The police were told of the stream and did nothing about it! Everyone could see it happen but did nothing!!!!!! He even had some people encouraging him on twitch!!!!!
This was a great way to spread awareness. Someone needs to start a hashtag or something just to get this news out further because the harassment these people are facing has gone way too far
man i saw a guy on one of those reddits asking other people to do one for his own sister actually mind blowing how these people are allowed to be on the internet