The 15 Degree 20 Degree micro bevel method
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- So follower Da nie told me about how he modified a method he learned from PG who is a very experienced sharpener. So I also took PG’s method and modified it for my gear and the results have been awesome. Below is the link to PG’s video if you want to see his video.
PG'S Video
• Knives Dull to Razor S...
Links
1x30 Strops
amzn.to/3Tkjm2k
3 Micron Diamond SprayS
amzn.to/3ESEhoH
1 Micron Diamond Sprays
amzn.to/3VI49Kc
1x30 Belt Sanders
amzn.to/3DbWufE
Tormek T-8
amzn.to/3eOq0is
CBN WHEELS
amzn.to/3eH37NV
Wood Turners Wonders Spartan Wheels
woodturnerswonders.com/collec...
Damn that is beautiful. That scope view is 👌
Really cool, truly enjoyed, I love learning from you, thanks.
thanks
A very good master class.
Wondering if you could show me how to do a hollow grind
I started focusing on sharpening my kitchen knives 6 or 7 years ago. Tried just about everything I though would work. Settled on a similar micro bevel, finished with a DMT Diamond ( Blue Course 325 mesh 45 Micron ) for an edge with a tooth. This seems ideal especially for cutting high density vegetables & other fresh foods. Not sure how well it cuts: paper, hair or string as those are not part of my diet currently. Best micro bevel angle seems to be dependent on blade steel & user skills.
How are you doing 45 micron by hand on a Leather strop or Nano cloth or a powered method?
@@ALXSHARPEN The short answer is by hand. I am more concerned with how thick the knife is behind the cutting edge than the apex itself. The reason; in all my real world testing I find this factor reduces down-pressure required to cut fresh foods more than refining the apex to a specific angle or polish. DMT diamond (25 or 45 Micron) plate 2 to 4 strokes ( light pressure ) on each side, that's it. My personal knives are flat grinds with 0.006" to 0.008" behind the cutting edge& a single micro-bevel.
PG is a smart dude! I rarely put a microbevel on my own knives but it really goes extend the useful life of the edge. I keep ten Japanese knives in my work case (chef) and rotate through them, plus they're pretty high end steel which holds an edge well. Plus I like sharpening! But I sharpen knives for the cooks or if I do house knives I add a microbevel as the more obtuse edge will survive abuse better.
I lurked a lot on the ChefTalk forums 8 years ago when I was collecting chef knives and sharpening just for friends and family. Lots of poster there swear by microbevels (mostly from food service professionals/knife nuts), particularly for harder steels in Japanese knives to reduce chipping.
That’s a nice setup! I’ve got my bench full of that also. Blade grinding attachment, that 1 by 30 and wen wet dry sharpener. Lol I bought a separate mophorn motor for a convex diamond wheel 220 grit but not in stock at the moment.
I got a Mophorn I’m going to put on A 2x42 probably later today I’m going to convert the Bucktool knife sharpener to variable speed. I’m probably going to do it by adding a belt drive to the grinder side.
@@ALXSHARPEN sounds great! Would you make a video on that? Would be good to see.
That 1x30 machine is impressive!
I love it. I followed Cliff Curry's instructions and turned my old Harbor Freight 1x30 into one of my favorite tools I use it all the time. Here is his video on how to do it. I am considering making another one. Here is the link if you're interested th-cam.com/video/EwlepLE3ZvQ/w-d-xo.html
What I've been doing is grinding at 15 deg. and honing at +2 deg. with 5 micron on leather belt and then at exact angle with Tormek's compound. If it's very wear resistant steel, like ZDP-189, I'll only raise the honing angle by around .5 deg. I regularly get BESS scores in the 60-75 range and the whole process takes around 7 minutes. Grinding is on CBN wheels (180, 400, 1000). If the edge isn't damaged, or need reprofiling, I just use the 400 and 1000.
Interesting. You can make it even quicker with this "microbeveling" with cbn wheels. So do not keep the exact came angle when you switch between the cbn grinds. I use only two cbn wheels 200 (15 degrees) and 1200 (20 degrees). Both run on the same tormek maschine at the same time (i kicked out that slow leather stropping wheel and replaced it with the 1200 cbn one.
Then stropping on speed spinning polishing wheel with 6 micron diamond compound and then also on the speed polishing wheel with 1 micron. Dull knife can be done in 1-2 minutes. Its all about how long you grind it on the 200 wheel (how much you push on it -> and you can push on it enough (very strongly) only if you run the wheel away from yourself (not towards you) and you need to sharpen freehand - only then you can push it hard enough)).
So is your second grind on the higher grit the same angle? Is this what you’re doing on let’s say Japanese knives? or anything that’s harder steels and probably doesn’t need a micro bevel like a western knife may benefit from. I tried the micro bevel on a Japanese knife that’s hard and it didn’t give me as low a score as this knife normally has on BESS but it was still in the razor sharp range but not double digits like normal. I am a fan of Tormek Paste it’s always worked great for me. On and leather belts I have used it on.
@@ALXSHARPEN I usually do Japanese knives at 12 deg. I only grind at one angle and then deburr on belts at the higher angle. So for a high-hrc Japanese knife, I'd sharpen at 12 on both wheels, then deburr at 12.5 deg., and finish at the exact angle. With high vanadium steels I try to avoid using the Tormek paste and instead finish with 1 micron diamond and then plain leather.
@@daniel.rosina I'll give that a try! I'm also running two CBN wheels on my T-8. I have the Schleif Junkies CBN wheels and I run them in water. No corrosion issues with those wheels.
@@ALXSHARPEN I do the second grind with 1200 under lower angle (15 deg). The "3D Anvil" does the second/third grind under same angle (which makes it slower in my opinion).
Japanese knives are completely different story 🙂 They are worth hand sharpening on NANIWA Pro stones. I don't have that many Japanese knives, so it is ok for me to sharpen them manually. Only if they need some regrinding or are very dull or have a chip - then I take it on the 200 CBN and then finish the sharpening manually on Naniva Pro stones (400, 1000, 3000, 5000) + 1 micron diamond compound.
Good video thanks! However, 169 Bess indicates that although the edge is apexed the burr has not been properly removed in the honing. If you micro bevel you still need to properly remove burr and the root. Micro bevelling is not the answer. Correct honing is the answer. 3Danvil approach is more like it. Honing at higher angles is not micro bevelling but removing the burr and it’s root. Then honing at exact angle to finally clean up that edge. I would be very disappointed with Bess 169. I would be content wit sub 100 for a ‘quick’ method.
Interesting I do agree that honing is the key to amazing knife sharpening and that the Tormek Hones just don’t do it well enough or fast enough I’m not sure how you have determined that a 169 BESS on a 20 degree micro bevel is an indication that the burr is still there I would probably agree if the angle was just a straight 15 degrees I would hope to see double digits but if you where to grind a normal 20 degrees angle IMO 169 would be an excellent BESS score and would not be an indication of a burr still present. But I will have to test more to determine. I have only tested this on a few knives so far but I have not yet seen one in double digits with a Micro bevel of 20 degrees. I will make some adjustments in my honing and try the +2 angle for the hone and the going back and cleaning up the edge at the original angle as well and let you all know what happens.
@@ALXSHARPEN this is very interesting comment. I do not have a burr on the knives within this microbeveling method, because I always deburr by cutting vouple of times into wooden stick (after each CBN wheel). I need to admit that it removes the burr drastically, which may cause dulling the apex a bit... so the stropping with a bit higher angle can be very beneficial (not only for deburring, but also for sharpening the apex a bit).
@@ALXSHARPEN I am still wondering if this "highering the angle method" can be improved by the tormek's japanese 4000 stone. I mean I've heard that this stone does not create nearly any burr. Therefore it can be the best stone for microbeveling before stropping.
I don't own that stone unfortunately and it is quite expensive for me. So I cannot test it, maybe you can...
My proposal for the process would be:
1) 200 (or 400) CBN -> 15 degree angle
2) 1000 (or 1200) CBN -> 18 degree angle
3) 4000 japanese stone running in water on different machine (e.g. on WEN) -> 20 degrees
4) stropping only on 1 micron diamond compound under 20 degrees would be enough. (There would be nearly no burr from that japanese stone)
@@daniel.rosina I have considered adding another Tormek T-8 if I do I will definitely do the test I tried the WEN but I didn’t get a very good unit because my initial thought was to use it for the Japanese stone full time. I did not like the way mine ran at all and the leather pealed off the hone so I returned it. Also would be nice for when I do run my Tormek Diamond 💎 stones to have two going at the same time and just swap the angle guide over although that wouldn’t help on the Japanese stone unless it was the same diameter which mine probably still is since I have not used it a lot. If I see no shiny reflection on the apex in normal lighting and under the scope I have found that to be a pretty good indicator that the burr is gone. But maybe there is more that can be done. I do know I still like a knife to have some grab and I have over polished edges and taken a knife to a mirror edge but then not liked how it cut. I have done this on my wicked edge but then I go back and put a ruff micro bevel on a high mirrored knife to improve its cutting and you don’t see the ruff micro bevel because it’s so small I don’t even know if it’s even appropriate to call it a micro bevel because it’s just a few light strokes of 600 or 800 just to give it some bite back it’s not a visible angle 📐 change like the 15-20 that you can see easily under the scope it maybe .5 to 1 degree and very light
@@ALXSHARPEN try Bucktool 10in wet shattered instead of WEN, it's new machine and may work better then other clones
Hello what brand machine is your 30” strop belt sander with adjustable angle ? Where can I get ine
The burr is clearly visible on the microscope. and a high value of 160 grams indicates it. a clean edge will always give readings of 80 or lower.
Psi motor is great also.
You recommend a bushing or spacer on the CBN wheel? Seems like it fits perfectly without any bushing on the 1/2 in arbor.
Yes no need for anything on the Tormek all my CBN wheels fit perfectly
@@ALXSHARPEN I was surprised it fit with no problem. Didn’t have to add a spacer to it.
Yes nice 1 by 30. I followed his video and did mine consew motor is nice. Is that a cbn wheel? I have a WEN wet and dry sharpener.
Yes I have 3 CBN wheels 400,600,1000 love them.
@@ALXSHARPEN wow! That’s great. I wonder if it will fit the WEN?
Is it just me, or does it seem like putting the initial bevel at 15* make the "spine" of the blade (at least at the cutting edge) thinner, and lend itself to a sharper edge when the final bevel is cut at 20* than it would if you just did a 20* angle for the entire cutting edge/apex?
I found it to be sharper. I assume the 20 gives a longer retention time but this is not something i do on a regular basis. I just wanted to test it because a sharpener I know does this on all knives he sharpens.
@@ALXSHARPEN My custom designed angle guides SHOULD be done tomorrow (1-22-24). I'm having 17* and 25* guides made. The 17 is intended for light duty/slicing and the 25 for heavy duty (think machete), BUT ... I'm an incurable experimenter, so who knows?
wwhat microscope is that bud im looking for something not too expensive like yours to see the bevel and microbevel when I sharpen? I would be grateful if you can direct me to a good microscope
I just reviewed one for the last few weeks and it’s good have a video coming out in the next day or two and they gave me a discount code for the followers of my channel
@@ALXSHARPEN nice bro I'm going to wait for the video and discount code I don't need anything fancy I just need something around 50 to 100 bucks that sees it all and can hold in my hand connect to my 1440p monitor and computer or phone when needed.. the overkill microscopes aren't needed
What rpm are you using to strop?
On the Consue 1400-1900 I find works really great for both sharpening and Stropping I like 1400 for stropping and 1900 for sharpening. I have my top
Speed set at 1900
@@ALXSHARPEN What cbn wheel would work on a WEN sharpening wet dry machine? Size?
@@robertmunguia250 any of the Wood Turner’s wonders Spartan wheels for the Tormek will work on your WEN check the last link in my description. They are fantastic and really affordable.
@@ALXSHARPEN ok sir thank you for your help.
@@robertmunguia250 see my last link in the description any Spartan wheel from Wood Turner’s Wonders I added a link directly to the tormek CBN wheels