A details that’s been pointed out is that at the ball, while everyone has a mask on Bruce and Selina lack a mask because their public personas ARE the masks - Batman and Catwoman being who they really are.
Geez, I only watched ONE clip of the latest James Bond film and you JUST described it! You have potential but SEEING isn't always a benefit. It leads to a lonely existence in a world full of sleepers. Sorta like Chris Pratt in 'Passengers'
This brilliant speech from Kill Bill 2 makes the same point this viewer did but also exposes 2 things: 1) Hollywood manipulation. 2) Humanity's incessant ignorance. There is not a single example anywhere that I have found of a font offering the same capital letter 'S' as the one we SEE on Kal-El's chest. The reason? It isn't an 'S'. It's a horned Viper. Hence, the Leader of Deadly Viper Assassination Squad (Divas) maintaining the Tinseltown deception against the audience. 'Bill' is well-educated about alter identities, yet...shhhhh! Or...Ssssss! th-cam.com/video/I_cEoK1mXms/w-d-xo.html
@@stephanniemorin I'm talkin smack about David Carradine whose brother Robert played Lewis in Revenge of the Nerds and whose other brother Keith, kissed Madonna's ass in her Material Girl video. So, David became famous for playing a Shaolin Monk drifting through the Old West and Van Damming stuntmen while rescuing oppressed settlers, having Opium flashbacks and laying groundwork for Bill Bixby to do the same as The Incredible Hulk, only he had Gamma Road Rage PTSD. My point earlier was that his 'Grass-Smoker' role was a bad joke like 'Amazon Bunny' Linda Carter was. PERFECT as a manipulative control freak cast by 'Tinsel-Town Toesucker' Quentin Mockingtino. The guy who mocked Bruce Lee's marriage to a white woman (The Bride), mocked Brandon Lee's death (Bill and Beatrix kid "BB"), then mocked Lee again while Mocking the Manson murders which included a pregnant woman. Oh yeah, his bit about a Lincoln Letter in The Hateful Eight Mocked the Letters of Robert G. Shaw and the 54th Infantry (Glory). Shhhh! The reason Hollywood gave the reigns to the MCU for 11 years of onscreen "Mind Control Unicorns" are simple. The ultimate ORGY of MOCKERY against anyone with half a brain. History is repeating itself. Dark Ages: Part Deaux is just around that curve the Joker (H. Ledger) spoke of.
One of my favorite parts about this movie is when Catwoman uses the whip on the mannequin heads because not only did Michelle Pfeiffer do that scene herself, with no stunt double but she nailed the scene on the first take!
She trainee a lot for that and she still got it, I saw a video of her like 1 or 2 years ago, where she find the whip and you can see that she still got it.
There's a behind the scenes clip of her doing it and then using the whip as a jump rope while prancing off. She did it all in one shot! It was awesome haha. And she must have split her lip in a different shot(referencing another commentor) because she didn't in that part
Vastly, VASTLY underrated film. Of its time, and yet absolutely timeless; weird, flawed, yet so damn beautiful and brilliant. I'm so glad it seems to be getting a new audience these days.
It will be remembered after the newer ones are forgotten. Even the Dark Knight, which was made in the "of all time era" when that was nothing but clever marketing.
@@lawlaw295 I agree. I don't think it was strictly "bad" or anything, but it was definitely overrated - terrible batman voice, mediocre acting from most of the cast except Ledger, and quite a lot of contrivances or oversights that somehow get consistently overlooked.
@@Don-ol8ze I wouldn't say that. Aaron Eckhart gives a great performance as Harvey Dent/Two-Face (my only complaint is that we didn't get more Two-Face), Gary Oldman is the best live-action Gordon we've ever gotten, and Michael Cain is also the best Alfred we have. Bale did good as Bruce, but the voice is unfortunately a bit much (especially when compared to Begins more whispery tone). The Dark Knight is still one of, if not the best Batman film ever made. But, it isn't unassailable and '89 and "the Batman" certainly give it a run for its money.
I like how different everything looked from the 1st one. Really made it seem episodic. Burton was also given more creative freedom on this one. It caused such an uproar with parents groups and with McDonalds issuing complaints, Warner went with a lighter vision for Batman... leading us to 'Forever'. Just like Nicholson, DeVito and Pfeiffer give it their all here. What a joy too.
"It caused such an uproar with parents groups" Yeah that's kinda my generation's fault, our bad. Returns scarred little 9 and a half yr old me at the drive-in after A League of Their Own, but Forever a few years later at 12 was like the best movie ever. I still haven't seen Returns after that first time 30 years ago.
I've always felt like the "main character" of the Tim Burtan Batman movies is kind of Gotham itself, and then the stories are about all the dark, twisted creatures that are born out of it, of which Batman is one, along with all his villains, thus innately making that parallel between Batman and his antagonists without necessarily having to say it out loud in words every time. Also, yes Michelle Pfeiffer is awesome in this movie, the Catwoman/Batman chemistry here is off the charts, and to this day that dance scene where they simultaneously realize each other's identities is one of my favorite tragically romantic scenes ever put to film lol.
It made me so happy to see how much you guys enjoyed this!! Now you understand why it's my favorite Batman movie!!! I think Tim Burton and Micheal Keaton not making a third Batman movie together to finish the trilogy is one of the biggest disappointments in all of cinema.
I still like to believe it's not too late for Burton and Keaton to do the third film. Since Keaton is already returning as Batman, and Michelle Pfeiffer has said for years that she'd love to play Catwoman again.
@@josephgarcia8496 Keaton quit because of the direction the series went. If Burton had been allowed to stay on as director he would've played Batman again.
That absolutely was Paul Reubens. Also, you have a new subscriber and patron. I really enjoy your informed commentary on things, noticing things like the framing of shots and the styles of the different directors and things. It's refreshing, and really interesting to watch, especially as someone who doesn't typically notice that sort of thing.
@@NiceDudeMovieNight Haven't seen anyone else mention it, but the actress who played the Penguin's mom was also in Pee Wee's Big Adventure. She played Simone, Pee Wee's new friend he made in Texas. And no one seems to mention it, but Alfred was played by Michael Gough, who has been acting for decades and in such awesome films as the "Horror of Dracula", from Hammer Studios. One of the best Dracula depictions and the first of many played by Christopher Lee. Burton obviously loved those old Hammer horror movies and enjoyed using the same actors.
Love when that last Bat-symbol appears and the theme song kicks in, you see Catwoman's head pop up. Gives me chills every time! This is still my favorite Batman movie of all time! Just everything is so iconic! Seeing this in theaters when I was a kid when it was released was such a blast!
While the Nolan Batman films have a very different approach that I thoroughly enjoy, I believe that both Danny Devito and Michelle Pfeiffer pulled off the best portrayal’s of some of the most iconic villains in the Batman series. I don’t think anyone will ever be able to recreate the role of Penguin ever again and nobody has been able to top Michelle’s Catwoman since. Seriously, Ann Hathaway, who I think is a great actress, had no business in that role.
Very much agreed. Pfeiffer is still THE Catwoman to me, and I think always will be - I like other versions of the character, but when I think of her, I think of Pfeiffer first. And yeah, I suspect it will be many years, if ever, before we get another Penguin this good - everybody oohed and aahed over Colin Farrel's recent portrayal, and how much makeup he had to put on, and how unrecognizable he was, and I was just like 'dude, he's just a heavyset Joisey mobster guy with a slightly pointy nose. I'd never know this was the Penguin unless you told me. Yeah, it's an impressive transformation, but if he still barely looks like the character he's supposed to be portraying, what's the point?' I mean, say what you will about Devito's Penguin; I'll grant you it's a weird take on the character, but still, he's very obviously the Penguin from the first moment you see him.
I think that Pfeiffer is just a case where choosing a great actress/movie star worked and Hathaway didn't. It's just the luck of the draw. I also think that Pfeiffer had the major advantage of being in a much more fun, entertaining, funny movie where she got a perfect script to work from. Pfeiffer is definitely the best Catwoman and also DeVito is the best Penguin.
I LOVE Pfeiffers version but IMO she is tied. I grew up in late 80s and early 90s on reruns of the old 60s Adam West TV Batman. And seriously Eartha Kitt is tied as best Catwoman of all time with Pfeiffer. There is a reason if you find the Catwoman mini documentary, that was on the Hallie Berrie Catwoman DvD, its Eartha they got as the presenter.
While I do love Danny Devitos Penguin and he will probably always be my favorite live action Penguin Collin Ferrell knocked it out of the park in The Batman.
The name Max Shreck was from the actor that played the original vampire in the silent movie Nosferatu and his office in this movie was designed to look like the inside of a coffin. Oh, and BTW, that bit with the bullwhip where Catwoman takes the heads off the mannequins... that was all Michelle Pfeiffer,
Danny DeVito was shockingly good as Penguin in this movie, totally different from anything else I've seen him in. IMO, this one and the first Keaton movie are the best Batman movies. Not a super popular opinion, but the elements are all so good. Keaton as Batman, Nicholson as Joker, DeVito as Penguin, and Pfeiffer as Catwoman; then on top of it, it's directed by someone whose visual style suits Gotham perfectly. Plus, Tim Burton brings just enough campiness to keep it feeling like a comic book movie without going so far with it the movies become absurd. I'm looking at you, Joel Schumacher. From visual style to casting (except maybe Jim Carrey as Riddler) and on to writing, the other two movies in this series are just vastly inferior.
I have to agree that Jim Carrey's Riddler is vastly underrated, both because of the poor reception of 'Forever' in general and because he had to share billing with Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face, which was NOT good at all. He nailed the trollish, obnoxious, smarter-than-you, quirky-but-not-outright-psychotic air of the character.
Interesting movie fact: Michelle Pfiefer spent months learning to use a bull whip...she got SO good that she whipped ALL those manequin heads off in ONE TAKE.
Her meow scene was always one of my favorite scenes in the movie. And I love that Robert Pattinson addressed it in his movie with the black eye makeup. When he rips his cowl off you can see his eyelids are clean
DeVito's performance is a highlight here. It's anything but subtle, and yet he's not overacting. *Penguin* is overacting. He's a circus freak who's running a gang. How could he not be. And I love that it gets summed up in his exchange with Bruce: "You're just jealous because I'm genuine freak and you have to wear a mask". "You might be right".
This is and still is my no1 Favourite Batman movie ever. As a 9yr old when this came out, I wanted nothing more then to be Cat woman because she kicked Batman's butt. Got the Nightie, got the socks, got the awesome catwoman cap. I was so in to it. And when I saw her at the end, I was so hoping to see her again. And I had a new love for Michelle Pfeiffer.
I remember watching this in the theater and hearing some smaller kids crying as they left with their parents, and thinking, "bunch of whimps." I was 9 years old and had a complete blast. Unfortunately McDonalds and their damn happy meals ruined Burton's chances for directing the third film. I love villains in this though, every one killed it. Especially Keaton. For those who were there in 89 and 92, this world is the definitive Gotham, and Keaton is and always will be... BATMAN!
@Mister P I agree 💯. Though if Burton stayed, and made like 2 or 3 more Batman films, probably never would have gotten Ed Wood, or Mars Attacks!. And if Schumacher never got to make Batman and Robin, we may never have had The Dark Knight Trilogy. "Too many questions."
I've heard a fan theory that Batman changes his stance on killing (at the end talking about Shreck and jail) because he sees himself in Selina and realizes the path he is on is a self-destructive one. That is now my head canon anyway.
give it up for Alfred, butler, man servant, hacker in most modern Batman stories, Alfred often has a past as a spy or secret agent (usually for England) and i love the idea that when he was young, Alfred was a legitimate James Bond type spy who retired (or faked his death cause there is no way he wanted MI6 knowing who Batman is) to be Bruce's guardian or before Thomas Wayne's servant (probably more, if he was trusted with his son's care after his death... you'd think there would be more Wayne's who would have wanted to inherit Thomas' fortune) i haven't read many comics but there has to be a version where part of Batman's skills and Bruce's lessons come from former agent Alfred
Great reaction! Long summary incoming... Not only is Batman Returns the best Batman movie, imo, this is the best superhero movie ever. Like you said, it's purely Tim Burton's vision unlike the '89 movie which definitely had signs of Hollywood interference. Returns feels like a horror movie and the cold, wintry Christmas setting accentuates that atmosphere. It's very graphic, creepy, dark, and twisted. The entire cast was excellent. The 4 main actors Keaton, Devito, Pfeiffer, and Walken all nail their parts, as well as Gough as Alfred, all the way down to the minor actors who understood the assignment and played their parts with perfect irony. Keaton is the best Batman ever, really capturing the disturbed, scarred, psychologically damaged hero and I like how he played Bruce as a reclusive billionaire instead of an obnoxious playboy. He didn't try to overdo it as Bruce, just played both sides with the right amount of nuance and subtlety that no one would believe this billionaire could possibly be Batman. Devito's Penguin is the best Batman villain ever for me. Pfeiffer stole the show as Catwoman. And Walken was icing on the cake as Shreck. It's really amazing that Burton could get 4 such famous actors for these iconic roles and they all inhabit their characters perfectly and never feel like movie stars winking at the camera or undercutting Burton's vision. Also, he manages to spread the storytelling giving all of them ample time to shine. The script is filled with nonstop sarcasm, sexual innuendo, and dark humor and never does any of it feel cringe or embarrassing. The one-liners don't interrupt the momentum, but feel like a natural part of the script. The movie was low-key overlooked and criticized in '92 because people weren't ready for this type of superhero story. And now it's being praised as the masterpiece it really is.
I agree with you. The studio did not. IIRC the reason for Tim Burton not doing batman forever was because the studio wanted it to be more kid friendly and for merchandising. The toys from Batman Returns were gruesome and didn't go over well with parents.
23:45 I love this scene, is a masquerade party, everyone has a mask except Michael and Michelle. The truth is they are cat woman and Batman deep down, so their mask is their everyday face, such great cinematography
There also was story arc in the 60’s television show where the penguin “reforms” and launches a PR campaign. I think some influence was drawn from that.
Couple years back they released an Alfred action figure in DC Multiverse line with 4 different heads. The one I use for my Bat family collection is the Michael Gough Alfred from these films. He will always be my Alfred
According to inside the actors studio . Michelle Pfeiffer " Catwoman " has the most famous 1 line in movie history " Meow". Love her costume it looks like Shiney black glass .
What makes the bat suit look so good in this movie is because for this movie they made a new bat suit for this movie the way the armor looks is different and it now has the comic book yellow oval batman emblem
I love Batman's facial expression (from what you can see under the mask anyway) when the dog snatched the remote control batarang. He's like ".. .. the fuck?...Aw, hell..." 😂
De vito and Pfeiffer level of acting is outstanding in this movie. And the Keaton face expressions are the best Batman face ever. The whole movie still hold very well after all this years.
I just now noticed the guy playing the mugger during the Catwoman reveal was in Predator 2 as the coked up, last man standing during the opening combat scene. Checked IMDB and found he has a very respectable resume'. - Henry Kingi -
I got the VHS of this movie for my 6th birthday and a Batman Returns tent. We had a garage converted into a play room. I wore the tape out in a month sitting in my tent watching through the window. Great memories
My mom took myself, my brother and our friend to see this in the Theater. I was 10 and I just FELL IN LOVE with Catwoman and Michelle Pfeiffer. And to answer your question, she had a Psychotic Break Down.
This is my favorite Bat-film. Watching it again with you guys on the 30th anniversary was a blast. Your reactions had me cheesing the whole time like a kid. LOVE IT. Thanks!!
True story. April 1994 in the Philippines, a week after our schoolyear ended. Me and my family were having Bunch of Lunches after church and Shakey's had this movie on their huge TV thing. We were savoring our pasta and mojos and chicken to words like sewer and toxic waste. We caught the last 30 minutes or so of the film, so I got to see Penguin die with that black goop dripping from his mouth and it totally looked like the root beer I was drinking, or so I was beginning to think. That underwater shot of his scowling, unalive face as he drifted to the bottom of the clearest sewer water ever haunted me for weeks, usually around bedtime, long after I lost my BOL to a Shakey's toilet someone just peed on. Definitely one of the most memorable movies I saw as a kid.
It's been a while since I saw this, but I'm starting to realize this is a great mix of trying to take the source material seriously by having a darker tone, while acknowledging just how silly the source material was/is.
My 6th favorite movie of all time, 2nd favorite superhero movie (after the 2002 Spider-Man), and hands down my favorite film score with my favorite musical composition ever written (Catwoman's theme).
Penguin in the campaign headquarters, where he appreciates the cute girls is a direct call back to an episode of the 1960s television show. Penguin is running for Mayor and also has a trio of cuties volunteers working for his campaign, I just don't recall if it is in part one or part two of the story.
The best scene is Batman in the Batboat, in the sewer. A couple of penguins have just tried to take him out with the rockets strapped to their backs. He loop-the-loops around the tunnel to evade before looking behind him. In his eyes you can see what he’s thinking. “I live a REALLY fucked up life,” HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Max Shrek is named in honor of an actor from a classic silent movie called Nosferatu. Incidentally, the name translates as meaning Great Terror, and was the actor's real name.
Watching you guys get into these movies always reminds me of why I originally loved them too as a kid and first time viewer. Keep it up!! You're helping to keep film history alive and energized!!
You two certainly use better words to describe situations, actions, and events when watching your movies than most reactors. i enjoy the dialogue and attentive scrutiny of the scenes. You dont play the scenes off as being overly absurd but instead recognize and respect what the director has envisioned and how is trying to convey it through the story.
I've been watching this movie ever since it came out in theaters when I was 10. For a long time, I had no idea that there's a photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger on that photo wall. That's one hell of a way to foreshadow his appearance as Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin.
Burton always said that he didn't like the old Batman TV series, because it was too silly. He wanted Batman to be dark and gritty. And here we are now - compared to the Dark Knight movies these ones look like an outright homage to the TV show! :D First of all it seems to be set in some version of the 60s, if we're going by the clothes and hairdos. And there's so much stuff from the series that snuck into this still... Like 22:00 the access to the Batcave - a secret switch, a slide... That's an Adam West Batman Trope. :D
Max Schreck was the actor who played Count Orlock in 'Nosferatu'. Which explains the strong German Expressionism influence on the sets. 06:40 Also, cats will eat their owners if they die and the cats have run out of other food. THey usually start with the fleshy parts in the face.
A lot of people don't realize this but the guy who goes ""Great Speech, Oswald" at 23:10 is Doug Jones. He plays Abe Sapien in Hellboy (2004), The faun and the Pale Man in Pan's Labyrinth and a crap ton of non-human (and human) characters in movies
Behind the scenes factoid from your resident ancient one. 😏 The penguins were a combination of animatronics, little people in suits, and REAL penguins. Apparently the actual penguins were so snuggly that crew members would walk around carrying them.
I'm not sure if anyone said this in the comments, but Christopher Walken's character, "Max Shreck" was named after the German actor, Max Schreck, from the silent film era, most famous for playing the lead character Count Orlok in the German vampire horror film, "Nosferatu", aka "Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror" (1922) - from 100 years ago this year! You might know about it, but if you don't, it was the second ever attempt at adapting Bram Stoker's 1897 novel, Dracula, to film (the first being a Hungarian film called "Drakula Halála (The Death of Dracula)" which didn't really follow the book at all and only a little of that film survives today), but in an attempt to avoid paying copyrights, all the character names and some details were changed for Nosferatu. They still got sued by Stoker's widow, but it's a horror classic and is the oldest Dracula adaption that still survives.
Interestingly, there was a two-part episode in the 1966 Batman TV show where Penguin also runs for mayor ("Hizzoner/Dizzoner the Penguin"). May have been the inspiration for this.
Yes and no - the character was still being worked out then, so there were aspects of him which probably shouldn't still be considered strictly canon. The way I look at the Burton Batman, though, is that he's not a killer so much as a pragmatist - his primary motivation is stopping crime. He prefers to do this without killing, but if the quickest and simplest way of handling a situation is to kill, then that's what he does - but he draws the line at cold-blooded murder.
@@blacktronlego Well, yes and no. In the comics, yes, at times, but I'm not sure if that applies to Burton's Gotham. 'Batman' had crooked cops, sure, but there weren't all that many of them; we really only met Eckhardt, and he got taken out of the picture pretty quickly - and by 'Returns', Batman seems to have a pretty good relationship with the police. I think in the Burtonverse, the problem is more that crime runs rampant rather than that the GPD is corrupt.
@@Psycopathicus batman not killing had less to do with the character being worked out than people think. Batman doesn't kill or use guns because of the Comics Code Authority and their relentless grip on comics back in the day. The in story reasons only developed because of the CCA and their ridiculous rules for comics.
I saw your channel and really loved it...not saying afterwards what to think of a movie but while playing your thoughts worked realy fine for me..best movies you did were Starship Troopers, Batman 1 and Total recall...so it was...and so it is....well done ya boys
A details that’s been pointed out is that at the ball, while everyone has a mask on Bruce and Selina lack a mask because their public personas ARE the masks - Batman and Catwoman being who they really are.
Geez, I only watched ONE clip of the latest James Bond film and you JUST described it!
You have potential but SEEING isn't always a benefit.
It leads to a lonely existence in a world full of sleepers.
Sorta like Chris Pratt in 'Passengers'
This brilliant speech from Kill Bill 2 makes the same point this viewer did but also exposes 2 things:
1) Hollywood manipulation.
2) Humanity's incessant ignorance.
There is not a single example anywhere that I have found of a font offering the same capital letter 'S' as the one we SEE on Kal-El's chest.
The reason?
It isn't an 'S'.
It's a horned Viper.
Hence, the Leader of Deadly Viper Assassination Squad (Divas) maintaining the Tinseltown deception against the audience.
'Bill' is well-educated about alter identities, yet...shhhhh!
Or...Ssssss!
th-cam.com/video/I_cEoK1mXms/w-d-xo.html
Jeez...thats deep, bro
@@stephanniemorin I'm talkin smack about David Carradine whose brother Robert played Lewis in Revenge of the Nerds and whose other brother Keith, kissed Madonna's ass in her Material Girl video.
So, David became famous for playing a Shaolin Monk drifting through the Old West and Van Damming stuntmen while rescuing oppressed settlers, having Opium flashbacks and laying groundwork for Bill Bixby to do the same as The Incredible Hulk, only he had Gamma Road Rage PTSD.
My point earlier was that his 'Grass-Smoker' role was a bad joke like 'Amazon Bunny' Linda Carter was.
PERFECT as a manipulative control freak cast by 'Tinsel-Town Toesucker' Quentin Mockingtino.
The guy who mocked Bruce Lee's marriage to a white woman (The Bride), mocked Brandon Lee's death (Bill and Beatrix kid "BB"), then mocked Lee again while Mocking the Manson murders which included a pregnant woman.
Oh yeah, his bit about a Lincoln Letter in The Hateful Eight Mocked the Letters of Robert G. Shaw and the 54th Infantry (Glory).
Shhhh!
The reason Hollywood gave the reigns to the MCU for 11 years of onscreen "Mind Control Unicorns" are simple.
The ultimate ORGY of MOCKERY against anyone with half a brain.
History is repeating itself.
Dark Ages: Part Deaux is just around that curve the Joker (H. Ledger) spoke of.
That masquerade ball scene is so excellent. I'm glad you pointed this out.
One of my favorite parts about this movie is when Catwoman uses the whip on the mannequin heads because not only did Michelle Pfeiffer do that scene herself, with no stunt double but she nailed the scene on the first take!
She trainee a lot for that and she still got it, I saw a video of her like 1 or 2 years ago, where she find the whip and you can see that she still got it.
Split her lip for her trouble, too. That's dedication.
She seems like the kind of girl who has had experience with whips. lol
I need this youtube comment engraved on my headstone.
There's a behind the scenes clip of her doing it and then using the whip as a jump rope while prancing off. She did it all in one shot! It was awesome haha. And she must have split her lip in a different shot(referencing another commentor) because she didn't in that part
Vastly, VASTLY underrated film. Of its time, and yet absolutely timeless; weird, flawed, yet so damn beautiful and brilliant. I'm so glad it seems to be getting a new audience these days.
It will be remembered after the newer ones are forgotten. Even the Dark Knight, which was made in the "of all time era" when that was nothing but clever marketing.
@@lawlaw295 I agree. I don't think it was strictly "bad" or anything, but it was definitely overrated - terrible batman voice, mediocre acting from most of the cast except Ledger, and quite a lot of contrivances or oversights that somehow get consistently overlooked.
@@Don-ol8ze I wouldn't say that. Aaron Eckhart gives a great performance as Harvey Dent/Two-Face (my only complaint is that we didn't get more Two-Face), Gary Oldman is the best live-action Gordon we've ever gotten, and Michael Cain is also the best Alfred we have. Bale did good as Bruce, but the voice is unfortunately a bit much (especially when compared to Begins more whispery tone). The Dark Knight is still one of, if not the best Batman film ever made. But, it isn't unassailable and '89 and "the Batman" certainly give it a run for its money.
I like how different everything looked from the 1st one. Really made it seem episodic. Burton was also given more creative freedom on this one.
It caused such an uproar with parents groups and with McDonalds issuing complaints, Warner went with a lighter vision for Batman... leading us to 'Forever'.
Just like Nicholson, DeVito and Pfeiffer give it their all here. What a joy too.
I mean, compared to Batman and Robin, Batman Forever was at least Cheesy Good, and not a snorefest.
"It caused such an uproar with parents groups"
Yeah that's kinda my generation's fault, our bad. Returns scarred little 9 and a half yr old me at the drive-in after A League of Their Own, but Forever a few years later at 12 was like the best movie ever. I still haven't seen Returns after that first time 30 years ago.
Psh. Blame your parents generation. I saw this as a little kid and loved it.
I've always felt like the "main character" of the Tim Burtan Batman movies is kind of Gotham itself, and then the stories are about all the dark, twisted creatures that are born out of it, of which Batman is one, along with all his villains, thus innately making that parallel between Batman and his antagonists without necessarily having to say it out loud in words every time.
Also, yes Michelle Pfeiffer is awesome in this movie, the Catwoman/Batman chemistry here is off the charts, and to this day that dance scene where they simultaneously realize each other's identities is one of my favorite tragically romantic scenes ever put to film lol.
I love when she says "Do we have to start fighting now?" :D that is so good.
de vito and pfeiffer nailed their role completely.
and she rocked that bodysuit. goddam.
It made me so happy to see how much you guys enjoyed this!! Now you understand why it's my favorite Batman movie!!! I think Tim Burton and Micheal Keaton not making a third Batman movie together to finish the trilogy is one of the biggest disappointments in all of cinema.
I still like to believe it's not too late for Burton and Keaton to do the third film. Since Keaton is already returning as Batman, and Michelle Pfeiffer has said for years that she'd love to play Catwoman again.
And can you imagine if Burton was put in charge of the DC cinematic universe?
It was Schumacher who decided not to use Keaton in the final two installments
It could’ve been Batman beyond, damn perfect movie
@@josephgarcia8496 Keaton quit because of the direction the series went. If Burton had been allowed to stay on as director he would've played Batman again.
That absolutely was Paul Reubens.
Also, you have a new subscriber and patron. I really enjoy your informed commentary on things, noticing things like the framing of shots and the styles of the different directors and things. It's refreshing, and really interesting to watch, especially as someone who doesn't typically notice that sort of thing.
Thank you so much!! Glad you’re enjoying, and your support means a lot to us!
Paul Reubens also came back as penguins dad in the gotham tv series was cool
@@NiceDudeMovieNight Haven't seen anyone else mention it, but the actress who played the Penguin's mom was also in Pee Wee's Big Adventure. She played Simone, Pee Wee's new friend he made in Texas. And no one seems to mention it, but Alfred was played by Michael Gough, who has been acting for decades and in such awesome films as the "Horror of Dracula", from Hammer Studios. One of the best Dracula depictions and the first of many played by Christopher Lee. Burton obviously loved those old Hammer horror movies and enjoyed using the same actors.
Love when that last Bat-symbol appears and the theme song kicks in, you see Catwoman's head pop up. Gives me chills every time!
This is still my favorite Batman movie of all time! Just everything is so iconic! Seeing this in theaters when I was a kid when it was released was such a blast!
And Catwomans head at the end was just a mannequin!!!
This is by far my favorite Batman movie. Such dark and creative style.
While the Nolan Batman films have a very different approach that I thoroughly enjoy, I believe that both Danny Devito and Michelle Pfeiffer pulled off the best portrayal’s of some of the most iconic villains in the Batman series. I don’t think anyone will ever be able to recreate the role of Penguin ever again and nobody has been able to top Michelle’s Catwoman since. Seriously, Ann Hathaway, who I think is a great actress, had no business in that role.
Very much agreed. Pfeiffer is still THE Catwoman to me, and I think always will be - I like other versions of the character, but when I think of her, I think of Pfeiffer first. And yeah, I suspect it will be many years, if ever, before we get another Penguin this good - everybody oohed and aahed over Colin Farrel's recent portrayal, and how much makeup he had to put on, and how unrecognizable he was, and I was just like 'dude, he's just a heavyset Joisey mobster guy with a slightly pointy nose. I'd never know this was the Penguin unless you told me. Yeah, it's an impressive transformation, but if he still barely looks like the character he's supposed to be portraying, what's the point?' I mean, say what you will about Devito's Penguin; I'll grant you it's a weird take on the character, but still, he's very obviously the Penguin from the first moment you see him.
I think that Pfeiffer is just a case where choosing a great actress/movie star worked and Hathaway didn't. It's just the luck of the draw. I also think that Pfeiffer had the major advantage of being in a much more fun, entertaining, funny movie where she got a perfect script to work from. Pfeiffer is definitely the best Catwoman and also DeVito is the best Penguin.
I LOVE Pfeiffers version but IMO she is tied. I grew up in late 80s and early 90s on reruns of the old 60s Adam West TV Batman. And seriously Eartha Kitt is tied as best Catwoman of all time with Pfeiffer. There is a reason if you find the Catwoman mini documentary, that was on the Hallie Berrie Catwoman DvD, its Eartha they got as the presenter.
@@memnarch129 Oh, yeah, Kitt was fantastic as Catwoman. I'm not sure if she was better than Julie Newmar, but all the Catwomen on that show were good.
While I do love Danny Devitos Penguin and he will probably always be my favorite live action Penguin Collin Ferrell knocked it out of the park in The Batman.
The name Max Shreck was from the actor that played the original vampire in the silent movie Nosferatu and his office in this movie was designed to look like the inside of a coffin.
Oh, and BTW, that bit with the bullwhip where Catwoman takes the heads off the mannequins... that was all Michelle Pfeiffer,
Gosh seeing these kids watch this classic is cool. I'm so glad I was there in 1992. And 1989. Lol.
Danny DeVito was shockingly good as Penguin in this movie, totally different from anything else I've seen him in. IMO, this one and the first Keaton movie are the best Batman movies. Not a super popular opinion, but the elements are all so good. Keaton as Batman, Nicholson as Joker, DeVito as Penguin, and Pfeiffer as Catwoman; then on top of it, it's directed by someone whose visual style suits Gotham perfectly. Plus, Tim Burton brings just enough campiness to keep it feeling like a comic book movie without going so far with it the movies become absurd. I'm looking at you, Joel Schumacher. From visual style to casting (except maybe Jim Carrey as Riddler) and on to writing, the other two movies in this series are just vastly inferior.
I have to agree that Jim Carrey's Riddler is vastly underrated, both because of the poor reception of 'Forever' in general and because he had to share billing with Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face, which was NOT good at all. He nailed the trollish, obnoxious, smarter-than-you, quirky-but-not-outright-psychotic air of the character.
@Glitch Xero
Same. This movie made me a Penguin-fan.
@ArcaneAzmadi
No wonder they chose him for Robotnik (Sonic).
Interesting movie fact: Michelle Pfiefer spent months learning to use a bull whip...she got SO good that she whipped ALL those manequin heads off in ONE TAKE.
Now THATS dedication!
Fun fact : Max Schrek (Christopher Walken character's name ) was a German actor. His most famous role is Count Orlock in Murnau's Nosferatu.
Not fun. Pointless and not related to the movie at all.
Her meow scene was always one of my favorite scenes in the movie. And I love that Robert Pattinson addressed it in his movie with the black eye makeup. When he rips his cowl off you can see his eyelids are clean
DeVito's performance is a highlight here. It's anything but subtle, and yet he's not overacting. *Penguin* is overacting. He's a circus freak who's running a gang. How could he not be. And I love that it gets summed up in his exchange with Bruce: "You're just jealous because I'm genuine freak and you have to wear a mask". "You might be right".
This is one of those comfort movies for me.
This is and still is my no1 Favourite Batman movie ever. As a 9yr old when this came out, I wanted nothing more then to be Cat woman because she kicked Batman's butt. Got the Nightie, got the socks, got the awesome catwoman cap. I was so in to it. And when I saw her at the end, I was so hoping to see her again. And I had a new love for Michelle Pfeiffer.
I remember watching this in the theater and hearing some smaller kids crying as they left with their parents, and thinking, "bunch of whimps." I was 9 years old and had a complete blast. Unfortunately McDonalds and their damn happy meals ruined Burton's chances for directing the third film.
I love villains in this though, every one killed it. Especially Keaton. For those who were there in 89 and 92, this world is the definitive Gotham, and Keaton is and always will be... BATMAN!
WB ruined this film thanks to marketing it as a kids film when it really isn't at all.
It's unfortunate we never got to see Burton's 3rd film or even another Keaton Bat movie in general.
@Mister P I agree 💯. Though if Burton stayed, and made like 2 or 3 more Batman films, probably never would have gotten Ed Wood, or Mars Attacks!. And if Schumacher never got to make Batman and Robin, we may never have had The Dark Knight Trilogy. "Too many questions."
Keaton is the gold standard that no other actor has yet to surpass.
@@jacknecron123 But we did see Keaton as Batman again in "The Flash", hopefully leading to something more...
My favorite Batman movie ever! Loved your reacton!
I've heard a fan theory that Batman changes his stance on killing (at the end talking about Shreck and jail) because he sees himself in Selina and realizes the path he is on is a self-destructive one. That is now my head canon anyway.
Especially considering what he tells Dick in the next film. Looking for revenge will just make the pain worse.
This movie is in my Christmas Movie rotation
give it up for Alfred, butler, man servant, hacker
in most modern Batman stories, Alfred often has a past as a spy or secret agent (usually for England) and i love the idea that when he was young, Alfred was a legitimate James Bond type spy who retired (or faked his death cause there is no way he wanted MI6 knowing who Batman is) to be Bruce's guardian or before Thomas Wayne's servant (probably more, if he was trusted with his son's care after his death... you'd think there would be more Wayne's who would have wanted to inherit Thomas' fortune)
i haven't read many comics but there has to be a version where part of Batman's skills and Bruce's lessons come from former agent Alfred
Great reaction! Long summary incoming...
Not only is Batman Returns the best Batman movie, imo, this is the best superhero movie ever. Like you said, it's purely Tim Burton's vision unlike the '89 movie which definitely had signs of Hollywood interference. Returns feels like a horror movie and the cold, wintry Christmas setting accentuates that atmosphere. It's very graphic, creepy, dark, and twisted. The entire cast was excellent. The 4 main actors Keaton, Devito, Pfeiffer, and Walken all nail their parts, as well as Gough as Alfred, all the way down to the minor actors who understood the assignment and played their parts with perfect irony. Keaton is the best Batman ever, really capturing the disturbed, scarred, psychologically damaged hero and I like how he played Bruce as a reclusive billionaire instead of an obnoxious playboy. He didn't try to overdo it as Bruce, just played both sides with the right amount of nuance and subtlety that no one would believe this billionaire could possibly be Batman.
Devito's Penguin is the best Batman villain ever for me. Pfeiffer stole the show as Catwoman. And Walken was icing on the cake as Shreck. It's really amazing that Burton could get 4 such famous actors for these iconic roles and they all inhabit their characters perfectly and never feel like movie stars winking at the camera or undercutting Burton's vision. Also, he manages to spread the storytelling giving all of them ample time to shine. The script is filled with nonstop sarcasm, sexual innuendo, and dark humor and never does any of it feel cringe or embarrassing. The one-liners don't interrupt the momentum, but feel like a natural part of the script. The movie was low-key overlooked and criticized in '92 because people weren't ready for this type of superhero story. And now it's being praised as the masterpiece it really is.
I agree with you. The studio did not. IIRC the reason for Tim Burton not doing batman forever was because the studio wanted it to be more kid friendly and for merchandising. The toys from Batman Returns were gruesome and didn't go over well with parents.
23:45 I love this scene, is a masquerade party, everyone has a mask except Michael and Michelle. The truth is they are cat woman and Batman deep down, so their mask is their everyday face, such great cinematography
There also was story arc in the 60’s television show where the penguin “reforms” and launches a PR campaign. I think some influence was drawn from that.
Imagine our disappointment when Batman 3 came out in 1995 as 'Batman Forever' with a completely different look
That's YOUR disappointment. It's not shared with most fans. Batman Forever was a fun film. Batman and Robin I think we can all agree was terrible.
Batman Forever was pretty good. Batman & Robin was campy as hell, definitely not to be taken seriously but still iconic.
If you really love Batman, how can you be happy with the direction of BF?
Couple years back they released an Alfred action figure in DC Multiverse line with 4 different heads. The one I use for my Bat family collection is the Michael Gough Alfred from these films.
He will always be my Alfred
Fantastic reaction. This is actually is my favourite Batman movie. I especially love Michelle Pfeiffer and Danny DeVito.
The Alfred "Damn you too" had me in tears, great shit.
I love that Tim Burton cinematography!
11:26 In the 1966 Batman TV series, the Penguin ran for mayor of Gotham City in the episode "Dizzoner the Penguin"
"Rubber ducky, you're the one ...." Dark, but still LOL.
According to inside the actors studio . Michelle Pfeiffer " Catwoman " has the most famous 1 line in movie history " Meow". Love her costume it looks like Shiney black glass .
Your reaction to this actually made me appreciate and like it more than I did before.
What makes the bat suit look so good in this movie is because for this movie they made a new bat suit for this movie the way the armor looks is different and it now has the comic book yellow oval batman emblem
You can find footage of Michelle Pfeiffer actually doing the whip work when she was hitting the mannequins in the store. She is it all in one shot.
I love Batman's facial expression (from what you can see under the mask anyway) when the dog snatched the remote control batarang. He's like ".. .. the fuck?...Aw, hell..." 😂
De vito and Pfeiffer level of acting is outstanding in this movie. And the Keaton face expressions are the best Batman face ever. The whole movie still hold very well after all this years.
Michelle pheiffer killssssssss this role so hard
I just now noticed the guy playing the mugger during the Catwoman reveal was in Predator 2 as the coked up, last man standing during the opening combat scene. Checked IMDB and found he has a very respectable resume'. - Henry Kingi -
The Burton Batman movies had the perfect amount of grit, cheese and theatricality.
Danny DeVito wore The Penguin suit the whole-time during filming this to stay in character
I got the VHS of this movie for my 6th birthday and a Batman Returns tent. We had a garage converted into a play room. I wore the tape out in a month sitting in my tent watching through the window. Great memories
Danny DeVito KILLED IT in this movie!
My mom took myself, my brother and our friend to see this in the Theater. I was 10 and I just FELL IN LOVE with Catwoman and Michelle Pfeiffer. And to answer your question, she had a Psychotic Break Down.
The special effect of Penguin chowing down on a raw fish was accomplished by having Danny DeVito chow down on a raw fish.
I loved this reaction because you guys picked up and appreciated all of the nuances in this film.
2:41 Yes Max Schreck had his picture done with Mr. Freeze. And rumour has it that that The Oswald Cobblepot and Mr. Freeze are long lost TWIN Brothers
This is my favorite Bat-film. Watching it again with you guys on the 30th anniversary was a blast. Your reactions had me cheesing the whole time like a kid. LOVE IT. Thanks!!
One thing I noticed about this movie, penguins character during his mayor campaign felt very parallel to trumps. And that was 25 yr difference.
True story. April 1994 in the Philippines, a week after our schoolyear ended. Me and my family were having Bunch of Lunches after church and Shakey's had this movie on their huge TV thing. We were savoring our pasta and mojos and chicken to words like sewer and toxic waste. We caught the last 30 minutes or so of the film, so I got to see Penguin die with that black goop dripping from his mouth and it totally looked like the root beer I was drinking, or so I was beginning to think. That underwater shot of his scowling, unalive face as he drifted to the bottom of the clearest sewer water ever haunted me for weeks, usually around bedtime, long after I lost my BOL to a Shakey's toilet someone just peed on.
Definitely one of the most memorable movies I saw as a kid.
It's been a while since I saw this, but I'm starting to realize this is a great mix of trying to take the source material seriously by having a darker tone, while acknowledging just how silly the source material was/is.
My 6th favorite movie of all time, 2nd favorite superhero movie (after the 2002 Spider-Man), and hands down my favorite film score with my favorite musical composition ever written (Catwoman's theme).
This is my favorite Batman. ❤🎉
"I was number 1 and they treated me like number 2" is my favorite poop joke/pun of all time...flushed down the sewers.
Yes!! One of my favorite Batman movies of all time! Danny Devito is so perfect as Penguin, he is both terrifying and captivating!
Just a tragic story too.
Danny Devito will always be the best Oswald Chester Copperpot.
Bring all the CGI you want... You will never top that performance.
So glad you guys reviewed this one! My favorite Batman movie of all time! I probably shouldn't have watched this as a kid. lol
Penguin in the campaign headquarters, where he appreciates the cute girls is a direct call back to an episode of the 1960s television show.
Penguin is running for Mayor and also has a trio of cuties volunteers working for his campaign, I just don't recall if it is in part one or part two of the story.
The best scene is Batman in the Batboat, in the sewer. A couple of penguins have just tried to take him out with the rockets strapped to their backs. He loop-the-loops around the tunnel to evade before looking behind him. In his eyes you can see what he’s thinking. “I live a REALLY fucked up life,” HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Wait! That WAS Paul Reubens! And Paul Reubens played Oswald’s father a second time in the Gotham TV series!
holy shit.
I can see still remember seeing this at the movies as an awkward 14yr old, I had a huge crush on Michelle Pfiffer for ages.
Tim Burton: Making 1920s German Expressionism Profitable since 1984.
Max Shrek is named in honor of an actor from a classic silent movie called Nosferatu. Incidentally, the name translates as meaning Great Terror, and was the actor's real name.
Watching you guys get into these movies always reminds me of why I originally loved them too as a kid and first time viewer. Keep it up!! You're helping to keep film history alive and energized!!
It's so lovely to see people react to the great classics.
You two certainly use better words to describe situations, actions, and events when watching your movies than most reactors. i enjoy the dialogue and attentive scrutiny of the scenes. You dont play the scenes off as being overly absurd but instead recognize and respect what the director has envisioned and how is trying to convey it through the story.
I've been watching this movie ever since it came out in theaters when I was 10. For a long time, I had no idea that there's a photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger on that photo wall. That's one hell of a way to foreshadow his appearance as Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin.
Burton always said that he didn't like the old Batman TV series, because it was too silly. He wanted Batman to be dark and gritty.
And here we are now - compared to the Dark Knight movies these ones look like an outright homage to the TV show! :D First of all it seems to be set in some version of the 60s, if we're going by the clothes and hairdos. And there's so much stuff from the series that snuck into this still... Like 22:00 the access to the Batcave - a secret switch, a slide... That's an Adam West Batman Trope. :D
Max Schreck was the actor who played Count Orlock in 'Nosferatu'. Which explains the strong German Expressionism influence on the sets. 06:40 Also, cats will eat their owners if they die and the cats have run out of other food. THey usually start with the fleshy parts in the face.
A lot of people don't realize this but the guy who goes ""Great Speech, Oswald" at 23:10 is Doug Jones. He plays Abe Sapien in Hellboy (2004), The faun and the Pale Man in Pan's Labyrinth and a crap ton of non-human (and human) characters in movies
Billy Butcherson in Hocus Pocus!
Mac Tonight (McDonald's) too, believe it or not.
Love your guys reviews and it really hammers the point that great practical effects will always be better than cgi
Thank you! And yeah they really used to MAKE stuff back then didn’t they?!
But the best is the combination of both.
I'm digging the Slim Burton batmobile moment, this car does everything
08:04 the clown that steals the baby is actually Macs dad from Always sunny
22:19 DJ Batman on the 💿.
I recall something about McDonalds backing out of promoting this film cause of how more darker it is to the first film.
I can imagine their concern of putting Danny DeVito in a Happy Meal box 😅
@@NiceDudeMovieNight Imagine that creepy smile staring at you while you eat...
Watching your reactions is almost more entertaining than to watch the movie all by myself.
One of the biggest classics of all time
Batman 1 and 2 are my most ..best movies ever seen..though...I loved them as a kid and they grow on building that thought.....
Behind the scenes factoid from your resident ancient one. 😏
The penguins were a combination of animatronics, little people in suits, and REAL penguins. Apparently the actual penguins were so snuggly that crew members would walk around carrying them.
I'm not sure if anyone said this in the comments, but Christopher Walken's character, "Max Shreck" was named after the German actor, Max Schreck, from the silent film era, most famous for playing the lead character Count Orlok in the German vampire horror film, "Nosferatu", aka "Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror" (1922) - from 100 years ago this year!
You might know about it, but if you don't, it was the second ever attempt at adapting Bram Stoker's 1897 novel, Dracula, to film (the first being a Hungarian film called "Drakula Halála (The Death of Dracula)" which didn't really follow the book at all and only a little of that film survives today), but in an attempt to avoid paying copyrights, all the character names and some details were changed for Nosferatu. They still got sued by Stoker's widow, but it's a horror classic and is the oldest Dracula adaption that still survives.
grew up watching this as a kid. love this movie! classic!
Max Shreck was supposed to be Harvey Dent. The movie was supposed to end with Catwoman turning Harvey into Two-Face.
Interestingly, there was a two-part episode in the 1966 Batman TV show where Penguin also runs for mayor ("Hizzoner/Dizzoner the Penguin"). May have been the inspiration for this.
thing is batman used to actually kill in the comics like his early versions so its pretty accurate
Yes and no - the character was still being worked out then, so there were aspects of him which probably shouldn't still be considered strictly canon. The way I look at the Burton Batman, though, is that he's not a killer so much as a pragmatist - his primary motivation is stopping crime. He prefers to do this without killing, but if the quickest and simplest way of handling a situation is to kill, then that's what he does - but he draws the line at cold-blooded murder.
Gotham city police and law courts are so corrupt that Batman feels he cannot leave it to the police and he becomes judge, jury and executioner.
@@blacktronlego Well, yes and no. In the comics, yes, at times, but I'm not sure if that applies to Burton's Gotham. 'Batman' had crooked cops, sure, but there weren't all that many of them; we really only met Eckhardt, and he got taken out of the picture pretty quickly - and by 'Returns', Batman seems to have a pretty good relationship with the police. I think in the Burtonverse, the problem is more that crime runs rampant rather than that the GPD is corrupt.
@@Psycopathicus I must confess I am not an expert and know more from the various film or TV adaptations than the original comics source material.
@@Psycopathicus batman not killing had less to do with the character being worked out than people think. Batman doesn't kill or use guns because of the Comics Code Authority and their relentless grip on comics back in the day. The in story reasons only developed because of the CCA and their ridiculous rules for comics.
Fun Fact: The name Max Schreck is an homage to the actor who played Count Orlok in Nosferatu.
I think Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Keaton's chemistry is amazing. They actually dated years before and apparently got along while filming.
I saw your channel and really loved it...not saying afterwards what to think of a movie but while playing your thoughts worked realy fine for me..best movies you did were Starship Troopers, Batman 1 and Total recall...so it was...and so it is....well done ya boys
Max Schreck is also the name of the actor who played Count Orlof in Nosferatu
14:15 Sooo funny 😂🤣
My all time fav Batman Movie!
Do the others too!! - They go WAY more camp pmsl..!!
🔥 ❤🙌🏽🙌🏽 CLASSIC! And such a great reaction! Thank you
My favourite Batman movie ever!
The man who played Penguins father repriesed his roll in the Gotham tv show.
Walken's character was named after the actor who played the vampire in Nosferatu, Max Schrek.
I forgot how awesome and cartoony over the top these two Batman films are. So much more fun but still darker than the modern trilogy.
The "sympathetic villain" trope always makes a great storytelling device.