Tbh I always assumed that Gary having 10 badges was just a little joke put in by the producers. Like the idea that he’s supposed to be so cool and popular and always better than Ash to the point where he somehow has more than the 8 badges you can get normally, just so he can rub it in Ash’s face that he’d never be as good as him
Kanto is a real region in Japan, which means that the game was supposed to happen in the "real world", which is why there are references to real world places. It was later retconned.
According to Pokemon masters, Red just gets so hyper fixated in battles he doesn't even speak during them, but he has talked I think one or two times in that game, while you could argue it isn't canon, it is the general idea of the character
In the power of Alola theory, if I remember correctly, in early Alola, the people give energy to Solgaleo and Lunala to help them defeat Necrozma, they do it again to help Ash and the gang defeat Necrozma, like when everyone gave power to Goku to use the spirit bomb, other than that, fire iceberg vid
@@mosquitopyjamas9048 while it does have other american elements it borrows from other states the region is mainly based off new york and a little bit of new jearsy
I remember seeing Gary having 10 gym badges in the show when I was a kid and my brain immediately started wondering about other regions he went to other gyms and what other pokémon there are out there. I'm surprised we haven't seen gyms with those badges in the games yet or in the show for that matter.
Not mentioned in the video. The "Sam is Professor Oak" theory/fact actually has something else to it; in the original ending, after traveling back in time, Sam wakes up and sees a younger Towa (not the one from Dragon Ball) who was checking on him after hearing"The Voice of the Forest". Sam was going to tell her but then states that it was a dream. Sam being Professor Oak was stated during the credits when Tracy finds the old sketchbook and sees the drawing of Pikachu and Celebi... when everyone would more than likely be walking out of the theater. The new scene was a change made by the dubs' producers.
okay so i have NO clue where this started but Pokémon: Legends Arceus is NOT a spin-off game: it’s been confirmed as mainline and paired with the rest of the mainline games many many many times at this point
@@MouldMadeMind a game in the same franchise, but not in the “core series” games like Pokémon Dash, Conquest, UNITE, GO, Mystery Dungeon, detective Pikachu , are all considered spinoff games as they aren’t part of the main series
@@MouldMadeMindMainline games are made by Game Freak (or are BDSP), can battle/trade Pokémon with other games of its Generation, are on handhelds (or hybrids, thanks Switch). Pokémon Company wants Legends Arc as mainline? We don't question it. (Colosseum remakes someday) 🤞
This was really great! I’ve watched several different Pokémon icebergs but yours is the most in-depth and I really enjoy that. I can’t wait for the next episode!
Man watching the announcement and then looking at these theories is great. "Megas will never come back" "Based on history and precedence, next legends is Johto or Unova" GF: next legends is Kalos lmao. Also it's Pokemon Z (-A)
This has to be the first Iceberg Video I've ever seen that *DOESN'T* needlessly explain what an Iceberg Chart is. Unironically, thank you *SO MUCH* for not explaining what an Iceberg Chart is. I'm so tired of literally every Iceberg Video doing that. There are *HUNDREDS* of Iceberg Videos out there - I think everybody has a general *IDEA* of what an Iceberg Video is. And if on the off chance that they don't, that's too bad. It's common knowledge at this point.
The Anime actually talks about in the original series there being more than 8 gyms in Kanto but the 8 badged are just the number you need before being considered strong enough for the Pokemon League, iirc theres supposed to be like 15 gyms in Kanto, and the ones in the games are more like the better known ones that people go to, like say someone from out of town was given the choice between a chain restaurant they know about and a family diner that theyve never been too, they're more likely to go the route of the familiar more talked about chain restaurant, ands thats how it is for Gyms, they're simply the better known ones
@@AppDisciple yeah, but that's Galar Generation 8, this was in reference to early in the Anime where Gary had more gym badges than gyms we knew of, back in the Indigo League for Kanto
@@AppDisciple it's pretty obvious that you don't get a badge form the karate master, and, you didn't read my reply?? The moment in the video I was referencing was talking specifically about an early anime moment before Galar was even thought of, Gary is seen showing off badges of gym we knew in the Kanto league but also gym badges we never see the gym too as they never used the badge designs for other gyms after the fact
the entry about Wally's asthma warms my heart bc i also saw that in the adventures manga (that again, is not an official source) he has a special breathing aid built for him and he becomes an even more relevant character idk i just really like the little guy and i like that he got more recognition in the mangas (i def should read them)
i think the Red is mute is simply a joke that has been taken by the writers bc tbh mute characters everyone seems chill with is a typical anime trope and I think it's funny in USUM but He does have a line during the battle if he heals/calls out another pokémon
I think Gamefreak not revealing many Pokemon in the modern games has to do with the complaints back in Sun and Moon. People weren't happy with Game freak for basically revealing all the new Pokemon for that game and keeping none of them a surprise, so I think that's why they keep most of them a secret surprise now.
To add to the theory of Blue’s dead Raticate, MatPat made a VERY good theory on why it’s false. I highly recommend the video because there was a detail I think a lot of us overlooked that I won’t spoil
That’s only in the manga which is non-cannonical to the games, and the Kalos war is not really “technically” confirmed, it’s a blatant canonical event and a major part of XY’s story
The Pokémon War is undoubtedly canon, but it has changed. While mentions of it have mellowed, the implications are still there. The Fame Checker in FRLG added dialogue that expands on his war legacy. Masters expands his character even further. He thinks he's cowardly because of his slight paranoia, setting traps and multiple locks to his own room just in case. He's not upset about it though. The biggest evidence to the war comes from his revised background as a Unovan. The Swords of Justice are war heroes as well, it's very likely that Surge was a part of that war. I dont think the "lack" of males really works though.
For Blue's raticate: - if Blue is for powah, why put away any pokemon of his if he still has free slots in his party - which he still has - he asks "why are you here if none of your pokemon is dead", implying at least one of HIS pokemon IS dead. I buy the theory. Not necessarily that it dioed for the USS Anne, but that it did die.
Blue may have lost a pokemon in the past, but he knows you haven't had pokemon before the journey, so he could have visited a pokemon that has been dead for a while before the game takes place. Imo Raticate is in the box because it sucks and is weak, Blue is mourning a different pokemon he was close to during its life
To completely counter your arguments: How useful is a Raticate in that situation? He doesn't use TMs on any of his Pokemon for whatever reason (I know the mechanical reason, but I mean story reason), leaving his Kadabra with only 3 attacks, his potential Growlithe with 3 attacks, and his potential Exeggcute with 2 attacks. And without TMs, Raticate only knows Normal attacks in gen 1, making it useless against Ghost-types. He may as well have nothing there anyway. His dialog is specifically "what brings you here? Your Pokemon don't look dead! I can at least make them faint! Let's go, pal!" Which sure doesn't sound like someone grieving over a dead Pokemon. His dialog if you talk to him after the battle kind of answers everything. "How's your Pokedex coming, pal? I just caught a Cubone! I can't find the grown-up Marowak yet! I doubt there are any left! Well, I better get going! I've got a lot to accomplish, pal! Smell ya later!" Looking at what he says, there's the answers. Why is he there? To catch Pokemon, specifically Cubone, probably looking for Marowak, maybe some failed attempts at a Ghastly. Why isn't Raticate on his team? Because he just caught a Cubone, giving him 7 Pokemon, the 5 we see in battle, the unseen Cubone, and the missing Raticate. Now, we never do see a Cubone or Marowak on his team despite this dialog, so either it was already fainted when we encountered him, or he caught it after the battle but before we talk to him again and the lack of Raticate was preemptive, ensuring he had space for a replacement (remember, in gen 1, if your party is full, any new Pokemon you catch are automatically sent to the box, no option to send something else instead and no access to the box without visiting a Pokemon Center). So... What makes more sense? His Raticate died, with absolutely no mention of that happening, no signs of grief or loss, and no other instances of a Pokemon dying as the result of an official battle with another Trainer, not to mention the nonsense explanation that he couldn't get to the Pokemon Center in time because the SS Anne left with him aboard despite the fact he leaves the ship ahead of us? Or that, as he said, he caught a Cubone to replace a Raticate that was at the point of being outclassed and would have been useless against the Ghost-types of the Pokemon Tower anyway?
Or it could be one of his pokemon died a long time ago or like if we go to a graveyard for no real reason and someone asking why we are there. Remember he also said he was after a cuebone which are found there. So as far as I am concerned that debunked the rat is dead.
@@Axolautism Could this, could that. Both option seems equaly plausible - but you did not explain 3 facts: Blue/Gary is your rival who wants to win, he is missing his rattata from his team, and third: he still has space in his team. Even if that's a 10 wort % rattata, it still should be in his team. According to Occam's razor, his rattata is dead as F.
Admittedly I prefer the theory (thought I am not sure how much this has been considered in the wider fanbase) that Legend Unova could be actually set in the future. I say this since Gen 9 made the future and past dichotomy and Arceus’s focused on the past so the next could be about the future. It also makes sense since I think Gen 5 was the first era with a distinct future aesthetic in places, and our first cyborg Pokémon. If anything I think the focus mon could be Genesect since he combines the past with the future, being a fossil turned into a Pokémon.
I would kill for Legends Victini. It would be cool seeing it taking place in the same time period as Arceus so we could get turn of the century nyc with things like flappers a mafia based evil team the city being built up and getting its first skyscraper people immigrating from a bunch of different regions. It would be such a fun and unique setting.
Yeah I was also thinking of a legends Unova game thats based off 20s NYC, we can also have it be a sequel to Legends Arceus since the time period matches up, it would be like 30 years later. Have the player character be born in that time and join the Plasma Detective Agency, which goes around the region investigating crimes against people and Pokemon. There would be some cool regional forms like Smeargle based off of old fashioned cartoons and rock type duraludon based on concrete skyscrapers. A plot twist would come later in the game where colress's ancestor uses porygon found in the space-time rifts of Hisui to figure out time travel, and she uses it to open a portal to go back in time and get the ultimate dragon for evil shenanigans. However, you get sent back and get trapped there after the portal closes, and the second part of the game would be a mix of wild-west/medieval unova where you navigate the civil turmoil caused by the two princes while also trying to figure out how to return to the present.
@@Rivechaan interesting idea for sure. although if nyc is your base, there is no such thing as a “medieval” nyc, at least in the way most ppl think of. not much in the way of “west” either
A great listen to run through time at work. Enjoyed hearing your inputs and the entries of the more recent stuff, looking forward to the other layers 👍
Mew-ditto: i think ditto being in the mansion is because they were using dittos at some point to force them into turning into mews using mew dna, and then extracting what they need from the transformed ditto
12:20 - When you were talking about timelines and having some version of the gen 1 games happening in the mega timeline, and gen 7 taking place in the non-mega timeline, that gave me an idea: It would be really cool for them to revisit earlier generations and retell the story from the point of view of it being from the different timeline. Like have a Black and White remake that deals with Mega Evolution. It would make everyone happy that wants Mega Evolution back, and takes the story back to a fan favorite region. It would be really cool.
I was fairly certain that Ash wishing to be young forever was explicitly canon in the Anime Characters around him age while he does not, and it is acknowledged And once he says he is done being a Pokemon trainer going around the world, he suddenly becomes an adult and is replaced as the mc seemingly with no timeskip
With the Venomoth/Butterfree switch, my biggest argument against it is what the pokemon are based on. Venonat is based on poisonous caterpillars and loosely based on fleas, but the caterpillars it is based on grows into moths. Metapod is a chrysalis, which is what caterpillars use to turn into butterflies. If anything Caterpie would make more sense to evolve into a moth than metapod. Then again, Kakuna spits in my argument's face and gives me a bee
Caterpie if you look at the Mormon caterpillar it looks almost exactly like it. While Butterfree looks basically like the black vein white butterfly found in Japan.
I'm gonna blow your mind. Go look up what bee larvae look like while going under metamorphosis. They're normally packed away in honeycombs like Combee, but inside of those hexagons you'll find a creature that looks just like Kakuna, complete with its legs up at its neck like a little bowtie.
@nanabobo567 ik. Kakuna is based off a bee pupa stage, but it's evolution is more in line with a moth's life cycle and Beedrill is a giant Asian Hornet, not a bee
Technically the 3rd games served as patches and DLC for the cartridge generations. The reason Z never happened is because TPC basically cut the time that would have gone into it because X&Y didn't produce enough merch and cards and they wanted to get the Hoenn nostalgia ASAP (TPC and by extension the execs at GF love putting the devs under a massive amount of crunch, which has resulted in less and less quality control before release, but also made having a 3rd game much less doable)
One thing to note on about X&Y and the Mega Timeline was also the introduction of the Fairy type which has also been retconned into the past 3 set of remakes which means that any game that features Fairy types is set in the Mega Timeline.
I’m glad you mentioned the flaws with the version releases. It’s an antiquated concept that maybe at first was to encourage trading with friends and show up system capabilities, but now it’s literally for more money. DLC, while used in negative ways these days, is superior because they can fix the base game while adding new content, for cheaper than a brand new game. Yeah you could wait to buy the definitive version and forget the originals, but few people are going to want to wait a year to get a new Pokémon game and everything is gonna be online in that year so it’s next to impossible to avoid spoilers while waiting for it. DLC makes the original version the definitive version, but I wish that stuff was all just added in base game by giving more development time. Not likely, but one can hope.
I 1000% believe we will get a Let's Go Johto, Legends Unova (about the original dragon that split into Zekrom, Reshiram, and Kyurem), and of course a gen 5 remake next year and/or the year after
About Arceus' true form Don't we see it in the very beginning of the game as a being of pure light? Personally I think that's what the true Arceus is and we just can't comprehend it so it's just light
I think there was another indirect confirmation of a leak. During an interview with Masuda and Ohmori before SwSh, they were asked if Sirfetch'd had been inspired by Madame from the then recently found GS Demo. Masuda laughed and said they made the new evolution from scratch.
Honestly Ghetsis makes Giovanni look like a saint. He literally crucifies the Unova gym leaders in the manga. His abusive relationship with N is the worst thing I've ever seen in the games.
Oh, I'm 100% the opposite. Seeing leaks of designs close to the game release makes want to play it less. You have no idea how exciting it was to me to see every new pokemon for the first time during Scarlet and Violet. Having had the opposite experience in Sun and Moon when almost all the dex was revealed by TPC, this was so much more fun.
I knew that gen 3 and 4 take place around the same time since there was that tv report in diamond and pearl about red Garados but where was it said gens 2 and 3 take place at the same time?
I'm so excited to see the other layers of this Iceberg, especially the 'PLA is in the Non-Mega Timeline' one, cause I also believe in that! Keep up the good work, and can I get a link to that Iceberg image?
I remember a fanfic stating that filling the pokedex is like an exercise for kids to learn to study pokemon and possibly get interested in science, and that the professors review these entries, though I don't remember the exact reason for this. I thought it was neat way to bring it together
I don't see the third versions as a cashgrab, it's more like DLC, where they adding content afterwards. It's pretty common workflow in japan, like the monster hunter series, the atelier series, even some naruto games and many others are doing this too. There is always kind of an awkward gap after completing a title and developing a new title, where people are planning and designing the new games and during those months, the programmers, modelers ect. have nothing to do and are basicly jobless. Letting them make content that's based on already released content and just adding to it, is a great way to keep everyone busy and yes, it does bring additional income. Back then there was no way to just download and add separate DLC, so they had to sell it as separate games with still Pokemon missing to not make the previously released games redundant, but nowadays every console has internet and instead of having to rebuy the games, you can just buy the DLC for like half the price of the full game. Especially with addon games like the 5th gen, I think they really tried hard to make them feel unique and not like copypaste games with a little extra content.
51:08 the literal INVENTOR of pokeballs tells you that they shrink pokemon, but I guess it's dubious for whatever reason. More dubious than literal acorns and worms converting themselves from matter to energy. It's not like a move called "minimize" exists and literally states to shrink a pokemon's size.
I had this one crackpot theory that I came up with during my playthrough of Scarlet. Pretty much most of the information Nemona says about herself during the last section of the game was completely made up because she didn’t like being around Arven or Penny. Mainly just because despite how close Nemona is with us during the game, we don’t get any of that kind of info until we’re in Area 0. I made this up as a joke and to provide some characterization to Nemona as well
With the Venonat/Butterfree conundrum, Butterfree probably felt better in as a early game pokemon compared to venomoth being a better just a mid game pokemon so a switch was made, thats my conspiracy
Yeah, there's actually an entry further down in the iceberg just dedicated to it. I wouldn't blame anybody for thinking that it was just a random kid though.
about the marowak and kangaskhan thing, some sprites for gen 1 were leaked a handful of years ago and there appears to have been an evolution to marowak that heavily resembles kangaskhan. dr. lava has more information on it on his twitter
Glad this was mentioned here because I feel like that in of itself is close to clear-cut evidence that Kangaskhan and Cubone are in some way connected. It was almost intended from the start and I remember how crazy it was seeing that along with the other beta sprites like Gorochu.
A little correction concerning the cubone theories entry : cubone's mother cannot be another specie. Ditto makes clones, and ditto is the only way to get a child the same specie as the father
Great video, would recommend you up your voice or lower the background music just a tad. When the horns kick in during gen 3 songs it gets really hard to hear you
I've seen this idea explored before but I'd like to see a Unova Legends game set in the future. Or just any Legends game set in the future, but I think Unova in particular would be cool especially if it was stylized like Opelucid City in Pokemon Black
I resent everyone who interprets Nemona in a negative light. She's pokégoku and she also has a special interest in battling powerful trainers, which for her are sorely lacking in Paldea
The Game Freak leaking stuff on purpose theory doesn’t hold much water imo. Each game goes to the hands of so many external actors before release so of course stuff gets leaked. Manufacturers, translators, graphic designers, advertisers, video game store workers. The leaks also always consistently come out around the time when they start shipping the games to video game stores, clearly it’s just some worker that gets their hands on a copy early is the one leaking content. As to why they don’t crack down on it, I don’t think they really can. Leaks are inevitable with such a large franchise, sometimes you just gotta let sleeping dogs lie and hey, if the leaks get more people interested in your product then by all means, leak away.
40:40 False its not a spin off, its considered a core game or mainline game because it follows the same rpg formula as the other mainline, where you can catch up to 6 Pokemon in a party to finish the Pokedex and battle other trainers for the end goal, to battle and catch Arceus. Also some of the gameplay did make it into Scarlet and Violet
Gotta be honest, to me it doesn’t even seem like N is Zoroark is a theory, it just sounds like what they intentionally and obviously put in the game expecting it to be understood. Basically, seems canon to me 😆
What can give a little credibility to the entry about Gamefreak leeking new Pokemon on purpose is that by not endorsing the designs officially they won't spoil the surprise since hundreds of fale mons are created before a new release no one can now with certainty which designs are real or fake
At first I chalked the whole “Not touching mega’s again” as excusable as a flat statement at the time this video came out, but then I thought about it. Even then that was an outlandish thing to state as fact. Mega’s had been referenced as recently at that point as the Scarlet and Violet pokedex. I’m leaving a like on this video, I ENJOY this video, but as a small critique I would warn you not to make statements like that as fact in an analytic video without it being confirmed or likely.
I believe Gamefreak shouldn't give definative answers on most of these theories. It's much better to let fans make up thier own minds. Official timelines are the one thing I see as an exception.
The enhanced version vs dlc rant reminded me that Pokemon fans hate when gamefreak offers them more content regardless of how much they ask them to pay for it. They even hate it when free stuff is given to them like the recent freebies in SV, like damn if you dont want the Cetitan dont get it.
Part 2: th-cam.com/video/0NvSx6hfU3M/w-d-xo.html
Tbh I always assumed that Gary having 10 badges was just a little joke put in by the producers. Like the idea that he’s supposed to be so cool and popular and always better than Ash to the point where he somehow has more than the 8 badges you can get normally, just so he can rub it in Ash’s face that he’d never be as good as him
12:06 “Pokemon are never going to return to Mega-Evolution” I picked a HELL of a day to watch this, apparently.
It’s been a couple weeks now, but I was thinking the same thing 😂 hardly anyone expected it, but I’m excited they’re coming back!
Kanto is a real region in Japan, which means that the game was supposed to happen in the "real world", which is why there are references to real world places. It was later retconned.
Indian elephant baby 🗿
@@CelestialQueenLollipopmew discovered in a jungle, according to the pokemon mansion, super retconned
It also explains "the War", which was presumably just WW2.
@@CantusTropusOr, considering Lt. Surge's age and the age of his comrades, Vietnam.
No
According to Pokemon masters, Red just gets so hyper fixated in battles he doesn't even speak during them, but he has talked I think one or two times in that game, while you could argue it isn't canon, it is the general idea of the character
In the power of Alola theory, if I remember correctly, in early Alola, the people give energy to Solgaleo and Lunala to help them defeat Necrozma, they do it again to help Ash and the gang defeat Necrozma, like when everyone gave power to Goku to use the spirit bomb, other than that, fire iceberg vid
Nothing you said made sense
I said Type: Null was introduced in Unova. This was me misspeaking, as I intended to say Alola
A classic case of Unovan imperialism /j
Isn’t Aloa a state of Unova anyway? Pretty sure Brock Obama is from there but I’d have to double check his egg cert.
@@mosquitopyjamas9048univalve and alola themselves would be the states since their based off different ines
@@shiloilo is unova supposed to be just New York?
@@mosquitopyjamas9048 while it does have other american elements it borrows from other states the region is mainly based off new york and a little bit of new jearsy
I remember seeing Gary having 10 gym badges in the show when I was a kid and my brain immediately started wondering about other regions he went to other gyms and what other pokémon there are out there. I'm surprised we haven't seen gyms with those badges in the games yet or in the show for that matter.
Lets go, needed a new iceberg to binge thank you
12:04
"The fact that pokemon is never gonna come back to mega evolutions"
Me in 2024 after Pokemon day... Well about thaaaat 👀
Yeah, they were never going to not touch it again. Idk where he got that from
Full series of this would be awesome, i love that it's multiple Pokémon properties and not just the games/anime
Not mentioned in the video. The "Sam is Professor Oak" theory/fact actually has something else to it; in the original ending, after traveling back in time, Sam wakes up and sees a younger Towa (not the one from Dragon Ball) who was checking on him after hearing"The Voice of the Forest". Sam was going to tell her but then states that it was a dream.
Sam being Professor Oak was stated during the credits when Tracy finds the old sketchbook and sees the drawing of Pikachu and Celebi... when everyone would more than likely be walking out of the theater.
The new scene was a change made by the dubs' producers.
that is so adorable ;w;
even though I'm not into Pokémon its cool to see you branch out to different things.
Its always good to do videos on what you like!
How the fuck is this only layer one, and we're already talking about multiverses and time travel??
okay so i have NO clue where this started but Pokémon: Legends Arceus is NOT a spin-off game: it’s been confirmed as mainline and paired with the rest of the mainline games many many many times at this point
What's the definition of spin off?
@@MouldMadeMind a game in the same franchise, but not in the “core series”
games like Pokémon Dash, Conquest, UNITE, GO, Mystery Dungeon, detective Pikachu , are all considered spinoff games as they aren’t part of the main series
@@MouldMadeMindMainline games are made by Game Freak (or are BDSP), can battle/trade Pokémon with other games of its Generation, are on handhelds (or hybrids, thanks Switch).
Pokémon Company wants Legends Arc as mainline? We don't question it.
(Colosseum remakes someday) 🤞
This was really great! I’ve watched several different Pokémon icebergs but yours is the most in-depth and I really enjoy that. I can’t wait for the next episode!
Man watching the announcement and then looking at these theories is great.
"Megas will never come back"
"Based on history and precedence, next legends is Johto or Unova"
GF: next legends is Kalos lmao. Also it's Pokemon Z (-A)
i need more of this it's great bud love the detail you go into
This has to be the first Iceberg Video I've ever seen that *DOESN'T* needlessly explain what an Iceberg Chart is.
Unironically, thank you *SO MUCH* for not explaining what an Iceberg Chart is. I'm so tired of literally every Iceberg Video doing that. There are *HUNDREDS* of Iceberg Videos out there - I think everybody has a general *IDEA* of what an Iceberg Video is. And if on the off chance that they don't, that's too bad. It's common knowledge at this point.
Too bad that’s replaced with a bunch of bitching and moaning lmao
The Anime actually talks about in the original series there being more than 8 gyms in Kanto but the 8 badged are just the number you need before being considered strong enough for the Pokemon League, iirc theres supposed to be like 15 gyms in Kanto, and the ones in the games are more like the better known ones that people go to, like say someone from out of town was given the choice between a chain restaurant they know about and a family diner that theyve never been too, they're more likely to go the route of the familiar more talked about chain restaurant, ands thats how it is for Gyms, they're simply the better known ones
This was confirmed in one of the journeys shows when stow on side had the fighting gym and the ghost gym where Ash learned to gigantimax his gengar
@@AppDisciple yeah, but that's Galar Generation 8, this was in reference to early in the Anime where Gary had more gym badges than gyms we knew of, back in the Indigo League for Kanto
@@sgir7472 actually just confirmed it, in general 1, you didn’t get a badge from the Karate Master but he very much did have a gym/dojo
@@AppDisciple it's pretty obvious that you don't get a badge form the karate master, and, you didn't read my reply?? The moment in the video I was referencing was talking specifically about an early anime moment before Galar was even thought of, Gary is seen showing off badges of gym we knew in the Kanto league but also gym badges we never see the gym too as they never used the badge designs for other gyms after the fact
This is one of the best icebergs Ive watched, please do a part 2!
26:36 Imagine going through all of that effort just to not be able to understand what he said
I almost never comment on video’s but the quality of the content you’ve created here is fantastic. Please keep making videos.
the entry about Wally's asthma warms my heart bc i also saw that in the adventures manga (that again, is not an official source) he has a special breathing aid built for him and he becomes an even more relevant character
idk i just really like the little guy and i like that he got more recognition in the mangas (i def should read them)
i think the Red is mute is simply a joke that has been taken by the writers bc tbh mute characters everyone seems chill with is a typical anime trope and I think it's funny in USUM
but He does have a line during the battle if he heals/calls out another pokémon
I think Gamefreak not revealing many Pokemon in the modern games has to do with the complaints back in Sun and Moon.
People weren't happy with Game freak for basically revealing all the new Pokemon for that game and keeping none of them a surprise, so I think that's why they keep most of them a secret surprise now.
That’s definitely why. People literally hated all the new Pokémon and only like the region variants for OG Pokémon before release
Not just the Pokémon, they also showed way way too much story content during the leadup to SM too
To add to the theory of Blue’s dead Raticate, MatPat made a VERY good theory on why it’s false. I highly recommend the video because there was a detail I think a lot of us overlooked that I won’t spoil
Originally the gym leaders worked for Team Rocket as well.
Technically we have confirmation of a Kalos war
That’s only in the manga which is non-cannonical to the games, and the Kalos war is not really “technically” confirmed, it’s a blatant canonical event and a major part of XY’s story
The Pokémon War is undoubtedly canon, but it has changed.
While mentions of it have mellowed, the implications are still there. The Fame Checker in FRLG added dialogue that expands on his war legacy.
Masters expands his character even further. He thinks he's cowardly because of his slight paranoia, setting traps and multiple locks to his own room just in case. He's not upset about it though.
The biggest evidence to the war comes from his revised background as a Unovan. The Swords of Justice are war heroes as well, it's very likely that Surge was a part of that war.
I dont think the "lack" of males really works though.
masters is not canon.
For Blue's raticate:
- if Blue is for powah, why put away any pokemon of his if he still has free slots in his party - which he still has
- he asks "why are you here if none of your pokemon is dead", implying at least one of HIS pokemon IS dead.
I buy the theory. Not necessarily that it dioed for the USS Anne, but that it did die.
Blue may have lost a pokemon in the past, but he knows you haven't had pokemon before the journey, so he could have visited a pokemon that has been dead for a while before the game takes place. Imo Raticate is in the box because it sucks and is weak, Blue is mourning a different pokemon he was close to during its life
To completely counter your arguments:
How useful is a Raticate in that situation? He doesn't use TMs on any of his Pokemon for whatever reason (I know the mechanical reason, but I mean story reason), leaving his Kadabra with only 3 attacks, his potential Growlithe with 3 attacks, and his potential Exeggcute with 2 attacks. And without TMs, Raticate only knows Normal attacks in gen 1, making it useless against Ghost-types. He may as well have nothing there anyway.
His dialog is specifically "what brings you here? Your Pokemon don't look dead! I can at least make them faint! Let's go, pal!" Which sure doesn't sound like someone grieving over a dead Pokemon.
His dialog if you talk to him after the battle kind of answers everything. "How's your Pokedex coming, pal? I just caught a Cubone! I can't find the grown-up Marowak yet! I doubt there are any left! Well, I better get going! I've got a lot to accomplish, pal! Smell ya later!"
Looking at what he says, there's the answers. Why is he there? To catch Pokemon, specifically Cubone, probably looking for Marowak, maybe some failed attempts at a Ghastly. Why isn't Raticate on his team? Because he just caught a Cubone, giving him 7 Pokemon, the 5 we see in battle, the unseen Cubone, and the missing Raticate. Now, we never do see a Cubone or Marowak on his team despite this dialog, so either it was already fainted when we encountered him, or he caught it after the battle but before we talk to him again and the lack of Raticate was preemptive, ensuring he had space for a replacement (remember, in gen 1, if your party is full, any new Pokemon you catch are automatically sent to the box, no option to send something else instead and no access to the box without visiting a Pokemon Center).
So... What makes more sense? His Raticate died, with absolutely no mention of that happening, no signs of grief or loss, and no other instances of a Pokemon dying as the result of an official battle with another Trainer, not to mention the nonsense explanation that he couldn't get to the Pokemon Center in time because the SS Anne left with him aboard despite the fact he leaves the ship ahead of us? Or that, as he said, he caught a Cubone to replace a Raticate that was at the point of being outclassed and would have been useless against the Ghost-types of the Pokemon Tower anyway?
Or it could be one of his pokemon died a long time ago or like if we go to a graveyard for no real reason and someone asking why we are there.
Remember he also said he was after a cuebone which are found there.
So as far as I am concerned that debunked the rat is dead.
@@Axolautism Could this, could that. Both option seems equaly plausible - but you did not explain 3 facts: Blue/Gary is your rival who wants to win, he is missing his rattata from his team, and third: he still has space in his team. Even if that's a 10 wort % rattata, it still should be in his team.
According to Occam's razor, his rattata is dead as F.
@@AmityvilleFan yes, the rival wants to win, which is a thing he stops being able to do with a frigging raticate by the middle of the game
Admittedly I prefer the theory (thought I am not sure how much this has been considered in the wider fanbase) that Legend Unova could be actually set in the future. I say this since Gen 9 made the future and past dichotomy and Arceus’s focused on the past so the next could be about the future. It also makes sense since I think Gen 5 was the first era with a distinct future aesthetic in places, and our first cyborg Pokémon. If anything I think the focus mon could be Genesect since he combines the past with the future, being a fossil turned into a Pokémon.
I would kill for Legends Victini. It would be cool seeing it taking place in the same time period as Arceus so we could get turn of the century nyc with things like flappers a mafia based evil team the city being built up and getting its first skyscraper people immigrating from a bunch of different regions. It would be such a fun and unique setting.
Yeah I was also thinking of a legends Unova game thats based off 20s NYC, we can also have it be a sequel to Legends Arceus since the time period matches up, it would be like 30 years later. Have the player character be born in that time and join the Plasma Detective Agency, which goes around the region investigating crimes against people and Pokemon. There would be some cool regional forms like Smeargle based off of old fashioned cartoons and rock type duraludon based on concrete skyscrapers. A plot twist would come later in the game where colress's ancestor uses porygon found in the space-time rifts of Hisui to figure out time travel, and she uses it to open a portal to go back in time and get the ultimate dragon for evil shenanigans. However, you get sent back and get trapped there after the portal closes, and the second part of the game would be a mix of wild-west/medieval unova where you navigate the civil turmoil caused by the two princes while also trying to figure out how to return to the present.
@@Rivechaan interesting idea for sure. although if nyc is your base, there is no such thing as a “medieval” nyc, at least in the way most ppl think of. not much in the way of “west” either
This as a finished series would probably blow up tbh. Well made.
12:00 this video must have been recorded before the Legends ZA news… 😂😏
Thank you so much for making this!! I love that it's not only just based on the games, but you put really everything in!
I subscribed just for this series. Please continue it!
A great listen to run through time at work. Enjoyed hearing your inputs and the entries of the more recent stuff, looking forward to the other layers 👍
Thanks for the compliment! Part 2 is up now!
Creator: Cynthia is not Verity’s mother
Narrator: that’s bullshit. It’s Cynthia.
Please do a part 2 to this!!
Mew-ditto: i think ditto being in the mansion is because they were using dittos at some point to force them into turning into mews using mew dna, and then extracting what they need from the transformed ditto
I like this idea a lot more, considering ditto are EVERYWHERE. I don't see what failed clones of Mew would be doing outside Medali in Paldea.
12:20 - When you were talking about timelines and having some version of the gen 1 games happening in the mega timeline, and gen 7 taking place in the non-mega timeline, that gave me an idea: It would be really cool for them to revisit earlier generations and retell the story from the point of view of it being from the different timeline. Like have a Black and White remake that deals with Mega Evolution. It would make everyone happy that wants Mega Evolution back, and takes the story back to a fan favorite region. It would be really cool.
I was fairly certain that Ash wishing to be young forever was explicitly canon in the Anime
Characters around him age while he does not, and it is acknowledged
And once he says he is done being a Pokemon trainer going around the world, he suddenly becomes an adult and is replaced as the mc seemingly with no timeskip
With the Venomoth/Butterfree switch, my biggest argument against it is what the pokemon are based on. Venonat is based on poisonous caterpillars and loosely based on fleas, but the caterpillars it is based on grows into moths. Metapod is a chrysalis, which is what caterpillars use to turn into butterflies. If anything Caterpie would make more sense to evolve into a moth than metapod. Then again, Kakuna spits in my argument's face and gives me a bee
Caterpie if you look at the Mormon caterpillar it looks almost exactly like it.
While Butterfree looks basically like the black vein white butterfly found in Japan.
I'm gonna blow your mind.
Go look up what bee larvae look like while going under metamorphosis. They're normally packed away in honeycombs like Combee, but inside of those hexagons you'll find a creature that looks just like Kakuna, complete with its legs up at its neck like a little bowtie.
@nanabobo567 ik. Kakuna is based off a bee pupa stage, but it's evolution is more in line with a moth's life cycle and Beedrill is a giant Asian Hornet, not a bee
Eh then why isn’t it called GiantAsianHornetdrill? Checkmate atheists
@@mosquitopyjamas9048 Curses, foiled again!
Great Video, can´t wait for Part 2!
i really liked this video :) cant believe you dont have more subscribers
Technically the 3rd games served as patches and DLC for the cartridge generations. The reason Z never happened is because TPC basically cut the time that would have gone into it because X&Y didn't produce enough merch and cards and they wanted to get the Hoenn nostalgia ASAP (TPC and by extension the execs at GF love putting the devs under a massive amount of crunch, which has resulted in less and less quality control before release, but also made having a 3rd game much less doable)
One thing to note on about X&Y and the Mega Timeline was also the introduction of the Fairy type which has also been retconned into the past 3 set of remakes which means that any game that features Fairy types is set in the Mega Timeline.
I’m glad you mentioned the flaws with the version releases. It’s an antiquated concept that maybe at first was to encourage trading with friends and show up system capabilities, but now it’s literally for more money. DLC, while used in negative ways these days, is superior because they can fix the base game while adding new content, for cheaper than a brand new game. Yeah you could wait to buy the definitive version and forget the originals, but few people are going to want to wait a year to get a new Pokémon game and everything is gonna be online in that year so it’s next to impossible to avoid spoilers while waiting for it. DLC makes the original version the definitive version, but I wish that stuff was all just added in base game by giving more development time. Not likely, but one can hope.
Nemona being yandere Goku was not on my bingo card.
I 1000% believe we will get a Let's Go Johto, Legends Unova (about the original dragon that split into Zekrom, Reshiram, and Kyurem), and of course a gen 5 remake next year and/or the year after
58:59 this can also explain how some legendary Pokémon can be shiny. If you can only get one then how do you know the one you got isn’t shiny?
About Arceus' true form
Don't we see it in the very beginning of the game as a being of pure light?
Personally I think that's what the true Arceus is and we just can't comprehend it so it's just light
Amazing video, would love to see more!!
I think there was another indirect confirmation of a leak. During an interview with Masuda and Ohmori before SwSh, they were asked if Sirfetch'd had been inspired by Madame from the then recently found GS Demo. Masuda laughed and said they made the new evolution from scratch.
this was a great video!
Glad you liked it!!
i make sure to leave a comment on any small creator's video i see and enjoy!@@Rivecha
I can disprove the Lt. Surge theory, in let’s go eevee/pikachu before the gym battle, he says “A Pokèmon battle is war!”
Honestly Ghetsis makes Giovanni look like a saint. He literally crucifies the Unova gym leaders in the manga. His abusive relationship with N is the worst thing I've ever seen in the games.
Oh, I'm 100% the opposite. Seeing leaks of designs close to the game release makes want to play it less. You have no idea how exciting it was to me to see every new pokemon for the first time during Scarlet and Violet. Having had the opposite experience in Sun and Moon when almost all the dex was revealed by TPC, this was so much more fun.
I knew that gen 3 and 4 take place around the same time since there was that tv report in diamond and pearl about red Garados but where was it said gens 2 and 3 take place at the same time?
52:20 I feel like this theory is just fans tumbling backwards over themselves through forgetting and relearning that Pokémon are magical creatures
I'm so excited to see the other layers of this Iceberg, especially the 'PLA is in the Non-Mega Timeline' one, cause I also believe in that! Keep up the good work, and can I get a link to that Iceberg image?
Thanks, layer 2 is out! The link to the original iceberg image is in the description of that video
29:36 Or the dex entries, like real world encyclopedias, also contain folk lore, myths, and common sayings about the Pokemon.
Yeah I literally say that
Dad went out for a pack of pokeballs and never came back
Can’t wait to see the 2nd layer
Volo's second outfit reminds me of ancient Greek clothing as opposed to the rest of hisui being very old school Japan
I remember a fanfic stating that filling the pokedex is like an exercise for kids to learn to study pokemon and possibly get interested in science, and that the professors review these entries, though I don't remember the exact reason for this. I thought it was neat way to bring it together
I don't see the third versions as a cashgrab, it's more like DLC, where they adding content afterwards. It's pretty common workflow in japan, like the monster hunter series, the atelier series, even some naruto games and many others are doing this too. There is always kind of an awkward gap after completing a title and developing a new title, where people are planning and designing the new games and during those months, the programmers, modelers ect. have nothing to do and are basicly jobless. Letting them make content that's based on already released content and just adding to it, is a great way to keep everyone busy and yes, it does bring additional income. Back then there was no way to just download and add separate DLC, so they had to sell it as separate games with still Pokemon missing to not make the previously released games redundant, but nowadays every console has internet and instead of having to rebuy the games, you can just buy the DLC for like half the price of the full game. Especially with addon games like the 5th gen, I think they really tried hard to make them feel unique and not like copypaste games with a little extra content.
Exactly but crybabies will call it a cash grab lmao
51:08 the literal INVENTOR of pokeballs tells you that they shrink pokemon, but I guess it's dubious for whatever reason. More dubious than literal acorns and worms converting themselves from matter to energy. It's not like a move called "minimize" exists and literally states to shrink a pokemon's size.
As king of the mudkips I bless this video
12:04 Oh do i have some news for you..
I had this one crackpot theory that I came up with during my playthrough of Scarlet. Pretty much most of the information Nemona says about herself during the last section of the game was completely made up because she didn’t like being around Arven or Penny. Mainly just because despite how close Nemona is with us during the game, we don’t get any of that kind of info until we’re in Area 0. I made this up as a joke and to provide some characterization to Nemona as well
With the Venonat/Butterfree conundrum, Butterfree probably felt better in as a early game pokemon compared to venomoth being a better just a mid game pokemon so a switch was made, thats my conspiracy
wow, as weird as it sounds, i guess it never clicked with me that the legends arceus protagonist was the gen 4 protagonist sent via an ultra wormhole
Yeah, there's actually an entry further down in the iceberg just dedicated to it. I wouldn't blame anybody for thinking that it was just a random kid though.
Well it wasn't via an Ultra Wormhole. It was Arceus.
Subbed for the next layer of the iceberg, hope you cover it soon
about the marowak and kangaskhan thing, some sprites for gen 1 were leaked a handful of years ago and there appears to have been an evolution to marowak that heavily resembles kangaskhan. dr. lava has more information on it on his twitter
Glad this was mentioned here because I feel like that in of itself is close to clear-cut evidence that Kangaskhan and Cubone are in some way connected. It was almost intended from the start and I remember how crazy it was seeing that along with the other beta sprites like Gorochu.
A little correction concerning the cubone theories entry : cubone's mother cannot be another specie. Ditto makes clones, and ditto is the only way to get a child the same specie as the father
technically even then the child still inherits its species from the mother. the father contributes its IVs and shit
This was VERY well done
Fun Fact about the Mimikyu Entry: Team Rockets Meowth actually looked under its cloak and essentially almost died.
Are you doing a part two 👀👀
Yep! Its up now!
Great video, would recommend you up your voice or lower the background music just a tad. When the horns kick in during gen 3 songs it gets really hard to hear you
59:58 more info!
in pokemon masters, red has like a few sentences!
one is "Words are unnecessary!" so, there ya go
I've seen this idea explored before but I'd like to see a Unova Legends game set in the future. Or just any Legends game set in the future, but I think Unova in particular would be cool especially if it was stylized like Opelucid City in Pokemon Black
Oh this video was awesome
I resent everyone who interprets Nemona in a negative light. She's pokégoku and she also has a special interest in battling powerful trainers, which for her are sorely lacking in Paldea
Cringe
The Game Freak leaking stuff on purpose theory doesn’t hold much water imo. Each game goes to the hands of so many external actors before release so of course stuff gets leaked. Manufacturers, translators, graphic designers, advertisers, video game store workers. The leaks also always consistently come out around the time when they start shipping the games to video game stores, clearly it’s just some worker that gets their hands on a copy early is the one leaking content. As to why they don’t crack down on it, I don’t think they really can. Leaks are inevitable with such a large franchise, sometimes you just gotta let sleeping dogs lie and hey, if the leaks get more people interested in your product then by all means, leak away.
Keep going!
40:40 False its not a spin off, its considered a core game or mainline game because it follows the same rpg formula as the other mainline, where you can catch up to 6 Pokemon in a party to finish the Pokedex and battle other trainers for the end goal, to battle and catch Arceus. Also some of the gameplay did make it into Scarlet and Violet
Fire video
Gotta be honest, to me it doesn’t even seem like N is Zoroark is a theory, it just sounds like what they intentionally and obviously put in the game expecting it to be understood. Basically, seems canon to me 😆
"A lot of fortnite leakers are actually in contact with Epic and only leak what they are allowed" So it's not a leak
It's kinda the inverse, where they're only not allowed to leak what Epic tells them not to.
Are you going to do another one??
Part 2 is up now!
What can give a little credibility to the entry about Gamefreak leeking new Pokemon on purpose is that by not endorsing the designs officially they won't spoil the surprise since hundreds of fale mons are created before a new release no one can now with certainty which designs are real or fake
At first I chalked the whole “Not touching mega’s again” as excusable as a flat statement at the time this video came out, but then I thought about it. Even then that was an outlandish thing to state as fact. Mega’s had been referenced as recently at that point as the Scarlet and Violet pokedex. I’m leaving a like on this video, I ENJOY this video, but as a small critique I would warn you not to make statements like that as fact in an analytic video without it being confirmed or likely.
wow amazing video
Love this!
52:31 Farfetch’d
Badum-tsssssss 😂
Yes. Yes Yes Yes! Please give us more!
55:29 and now hes in pokemon masters lol
I believe Gamefreak shouldn't give definative answers on most of these theories. It's much better to let fans make up thier own minds. Official timelines are the one thing I see as an exception.
The enhanced version vs dlc rant reminded me that Pokemon fans hate when gamefreak offers them more content regardless of how much they ask them to pay for it. They even hate it when free stuff is given to them like the recent freebies in SV, like damn if you dont want the Cetitan dont get it.
Love this franchise but the bigger it’s gotten the more whineasses it’s gotten. Tons of toxic people here that are never happy.