Monk is a great example of a job that DOES have a more complete kit at lower levels thanks to the Endwalker changes. This is not a fluke either, as the stated intent of those changes was to flesh out how the job plays closer to the ground. This gives me hope for the future that SE will do this for more jobs!
Monk had a completed kit, until it was reworked in SHB patch to an incomplete kit. It was turned to a complete kit in EW which many feel is far more boring than its previous iteration (pre-SHB rework). So I feel the opposite of you and have less hope for the future, cause SE is doing this for more jobs.
@@idowhatiwant3557 I am sorry but that's not true the vast majority thinks that monk is the best it's ever been and you can clearly see that just looking at the numbers
Yeah, but unfortunately it has problems on the other end of the spectrum. Leveling Monk from 70 to 90 is kind of a pain since you get almost nothing new to your kit. Just a few animation changes and damage buffs.
The problem with letting max lvl players keep their entire kit for syncing down in regular content is that it creates a space where sprouts become a hindrance. Why have a lvl 15 smn in Satasha when you can have a synced down smn who can do their lvl 90 rotation.
Yeah, that's the main objection I have with this post. Syncing down content like in GW2 is quite easy in comparison, since there's only 10 skills to use at any time, and half of them are bound to your weapon(s) but in FFxiv, things are quite different, there's a lot more skills in the hotbars. New players would definitely feel lacking something compared to players with more leveled up jobs.
They could just give you most of your kit way earlier on at lower potencies. At higher levels you’d gain traits that raise their potencies. Alternatively we could get less effective versions of abilities. For instance, a low level version of enshroud that just speeds up your GCD and gives three uses of gibbet/gallows at (relative to 90) lower potencies
That problem already exists in another form. For dungeons w/o iLevel sync, just level sync the "adjusted" power of gear is insane. Take your example, Sastasha. A lvl 90 in endwalker stat-bloat gear, level synced, has almost twice the total stats as the actual level player because the gear bonuses are so much better in later patch gear. Even w/o lvl 90 gear a lot of players can almost one shot mobs in the dungeon because they are so much more powerful, synced. For comparison go into an iLevel sync dungeon and the dynamic changes and the dungeon is much harder. Almost no one wants to do iLevel syncing dungeons for that reason.
That's an extreme example. I think it would still be good if abilities could be used in content 10 levels lower so more content allows for higher level rotations.
What do you mean? alot of peoples run old content in wow for transmog, mounts and achivements... I'd rather run around and one shot everything in old wow raids than doing a 1 buttom rotation with no aoe and wiping in ffxiv downscaled content. It is dogshit gamedesign and they should look how guildwars 2 is doing it.
@@styxzero1675 There is no way you've gotten to lvl 50 in FF if you think the rotation is one button. I'm glad you think FF is dogshit so I won't wind up in a group with you.
Dont know why people get triggered, he worded it badly but its still true. GW2 has better sandbox design than ff14 even if ff14 is better than WoW. Keep in mind hes talking about downscaled content, and it is absolutely brutal to have a fleshed out rotation and sync down back to the basic 123 combo.
As a wow convert, I don't mind. I'm playing at my own pace. The only thing that I liked different about WoW to FFXIV is that once you learned an ability, you have it all of the time instead of it being locked behind levels. Sometimes it's a bit annoying once you get up to higher levels and you have to change key-binds around for the lower level abilities. Other than that I'm having a great time playing most of the jobs
That depends. If you level sync downward to quest with a friend in WoW, you lose all of the abilities above the sync line. If WoW ever implemented a Final Fantasy-style leveling roulette and opened all dungeons up, they'd probably implement a similar system. Conversely, I think that FF would benefit HUGELY from having the standard leveling roulette for people working towards max level, then having a different roulette that let people at max level do EVERY dungeon with all of their kit, regardless of their MSQ progression. It really sucks outleveling an expansion and never being able to use any of your abilities in it or any of the dungeons. As someone who made an alt on Brynhildr to play with friends just coming over to FF from WoW, I dinged 90 on my first job and am still working through Stormblood with my friends. But I don't think there's a reasonable solution where you could throw a full, max-level player into a leveling dungeon with, say, a level 32 player and expect it to go well or feel fair at all.
Fair enough but this reddit post & overall discussion is aimed more at experienced players with many many hours in the game. At 100 hours I didn't care about (or notice) level synced content being not fun, but at 1000 hours it is a more obvious problem to me.
@@Maria_Erias I think they're saying that, in WoW, when you gain an ability, there's no major change to your button layout because that ability is (relatively) static in your rotation. In 14, you definitely have to switch around or compensate for lower-lvl builds because some abilities either change drastically in use or become obsolete so you hide them away for stronger versions or compensating abilities (like Cure vs Cure2 for WHM) I know there are niche uses for the older spells like saving mana, but a lot of strats have it as niche for a reason and it's crazy min-maxing that even top-end raiders don't use. The issue is having to readjust for these abilities if you opt in for lower-lvl Roulettes. It's a bit cumbersome and part of the reason 'why' some folks opt out of anything lower-lvl, making it harder to run early content Also pretty sure why the Trust System was vastly updated to basically make early game almost single player. They already had the mercenary system that you had to lvl up to run dungeons with you, but the new Trust makes that obsolete outside of the rewards you get with the mercs (better AI, story relevant) ...Which I guess that even makes them changing the older rotation moot since nobody really has to do older content unless lvling a new Job, so ehh~ lol
@@Maria_Erias Funnily enough WoW did kinda do that with the threads of time leveling. if you've reached max lvl on one character you can level through various expacs of content and monsters will be scaled to your current level, not just in instances but open world too. Its not a perfect system: when one dungeon from the 4 expac was open for fresh lvl 10s to enter it had a mechanic on the final boss that needed to be dispelled immediately but most healers didn't get a dispel until 15+ so for like a week before they fixed it that boss was insanely hard if your healer was too low. the solution was just to detooth the effect and reduce its damage a ton. not the most elegant solution but the mechanic's original difficulty was still kept in the heroic/timewalking versions. because of whatever scaling magic they use, the difference between low and high level player damage is negligible if it doesn't favor the lower level player (not that FF players would ever use logs or anything >.>) and the healing relative to max healths are also comparable to equal level healing.
There's definitely something to be said about having your abilities unlocked regardless of level, but a bunch of problems come with it Syncing output to the content, new player experience, willingness to play with people that don't have their full kits and vice versa, etc. Personally I'd love to be able to use a synced version of all my 90 jobs regardless of the content I'm in but if the trade-off is fucking over sprouts then no thanks It's the same situation that BLU has, why would you ever want to sync with someone that only has water cannon versus someone that can practically solo the entire raid with enough setup and time?
Though similar, and maybe appropriate?, I have seen the amount of toxicity toward people that were in Crystal Tower and other such raids without equipping their soul stone. Severely diminished kit and people are (rightfully?) upset to have to carry them. I am not sure if it would be similar or worse for level differences, but I imagine some would be frustrated by it.
I think splitting the difference comes down to making sure that classes have their "iconic" kit before entering group content. DNC, for instance, doesn't get Closed Position or any party buffs below 60, when its class fantasy is pretty much built around that. It feels awful in synched content because of this. Some people have countered that DNC has the best AOE in low levels. So what? That's not the class identity. I'll gladly trade early AOE for being able to do the key feature of my class no matter what content I'm in. SGE is a good example of doing it right; you always have Kardia and you get Eukrasia very early, and thus get your shields and DOT early. No matter what you synch into, you're very clearly doing SGE things. Yeah you don't always have Toxicon or Pneuma or (Pan) Haima, but those are all iterations on what you already do.
@@warmachine5835 that’s the single major thing that’s bothered me about syncing back down After a point you’re not even playing your job anymore, you’re playing your class again with a mask over it What kind of WAR am I playing without my beast gauge, even if I have berserk at level 6? What kind of DRG am I playing without my jumps? I know there’s only so much you can do sometimes but at the very least I’d like more “signature abilities” to be pulled down if you have your job stone on
@@NelielSugiura In my opinion, players not having or equipping a soul stone is outright ignorance and even malicious. And it's not entirely on them since FF14 is not upfront or obvious about job quests, nor does it gate content from those who do not have a soul stone equipped. When people see someone in dungeon or raid and they see that someone don't have a soul stone, there's a pretty decent chance their first impression would be, "Wow, do they really not have their soul stone?" vs "Is this a new player?" because there aren't turn by turn directions on how to progress your job at early levels or any meaningful way of teaching players how to play their role effectively. Literally looking at every single healer 60+ who can't find their DPS buttons for 45 minutes. As for pulling skills down when synced, the more reasonable implementation would be to have tiers based on levels and sync the iL further down the greater the tier difference to offset the massive gains in DPS you would get by having full access to your kit.
This really isn't much of an issue. It's just math, you just make sure that the dps output is comparable regardless of skill set, that could be done mathematically, I really doubt this is even particularly difficult. It doesn't even need to be perfect because the current system isn't perfect either, synced down content does not play like the original. Even those leveling don't have the original skillset you would have had at the time, it's fundamentally somewhat broken content. As for "fucking over sprouts", from another persons perspective it's just cosmetic, and guess what, we already have that. You can already queue in with someone rocking glamour or endgame equipment, which is sometimes/often even msq relevant.
Syncing as it is right now is about as good as its going to get. It needs tweaks on a per-job basis to find a good balance (see EW monk changes for ex), but suggestions like keeping all abilities just with potency nerfs would absolutely ruin what the game does so well in that it presents a baseline challenge in older content that every player can find semi-consistent footing on. This feels like the sentiment of someone who has played the game for thousands of hours and is bored of getting synced down and is ultimately disconnected from the new player experience and isnt really giving it the consideration it very much deserves in this discussion. I definitely agree though that the sheer quantity of content in the game ensures inevitably certain parts of it become irrelevant and very hard to attempt without PF/Discord. Personally, I dont necessarily think thats a problem the developers need to solve, so much as an unfortunate consequence of a growing and evolving MMO, but I can respect the desire to keep everything relevant when the game has done it so well for so many parts of the game.
"that it presents a baseline challenge in older content that every player can find semi-consistent footing on" there is a challenge in older content that isn't extreme/savage/ultimate? sorry, but you're just wrong there, there is 0 difficulity in dungeons, even if you're wall 2 wall pull it's braindead easy, even newer dungeons are way too easy to the point where an healer is literally optional (see people do the new dungeons with just a tank and 3 DPS and they clear much easier than an tank/healer/2dps would do) "This feels like the sentiment of someone who has played the game for thousands of hours and is bored of getting synced down and is ultimately disconnected from the new player experience and isnt really giving it the consideration it very much deserves in this discussion." also false, granted this might come from an player with thousands of hours (hell that'll be me aswel) the problem is that newer players WON'T care if that other dragoon does other actions, because why would they, most won't care. it's what mishappenchair said in 1 of his videos when 6.1 dropped and Kaiten was indeed removed, who is this change for, the super casuals can clear any content that is required for story progression without ever using Kaiten, this falls into the same category, this will benefit the players who have reached endgame and aren't punished for being at endgame, while the newer players won't care, maybe they'll even go "wait, i get THAT later on?" "I definitely agree though that the sheer quantity of content in the game ensures inevitably certain parts of it become irrelevant and very hard to attempt without PF/Discord. Personally, I dont necessarily think thats a problem the developers need to solve, so much as an unfortunate consequence of a growing and evolving MMO, but I can respect the desire to keep everything relevant when the game has done it so well for so many parts of the game." mostly false aswel, old content (atleast dungeons/trials) will always be relevant in some way or form. simply because people will do duty roulette leveling or MSQ, trials or normal raids (although i wish normal raids EXP drop was higher, since it drops literally like 1/4th of an trial roulette while being the same length) this basically ensures that newer players still find players for older dungeons, but the problem then becomes that an lvl 90 red mage gets synced down to lvl 17 for satasha or copperbell mines without 85% of their abilities to go with, making every job an shell of their former self. the only content that fades into irrelevancy is old extreme trials, you rarely see heavensward or ARR extremes being run in PF, you see shadowbringers still, but even then a select few, rarely do i see emerald weapon EX. they simply should give us all our abilties, maybe remove the potency increase from traits. but the potency system alone should be able to handle the stat sync. (also when Zepla said "yoshi will likely say it's impossible due to budget" or whatever, they already got the sync system in place, they could just add the flag of "don't sync abilities" and it should be fine. (granted it might take their intern a day to figure out)
@@DarkDyllon "there is a challenge in older content that isn't extreme/savage/ultimate?" I've seen enough sprouts wipe on "easy" content all the time to know that just because its easy for you or me, doesnt mean it is for everyone. "also false, granted this might come from an player with thousands of hours (hell that'll be me aswel) the problem is that newer players WON'T care if that other dragoon does other actions, because why would they, most won't care. it's what mishappenchair said in 1 of his videos when 6.1 dropped and Kaiten was indeed removed, who is this change for, the super casuals can clear any content that is required for story progression without ever using Kaiten" Well, Kaiten was pretty obviously removed to mitigate ability bloat. I've noticed time and again they seem to seriously want to avoid giving jobs more than 3 full hotbars worth of abilities to use, understandably. As for just giving everyone all abilites, I'm very confused at how people don't understand that having a full lvl 90 toolset in Sastasha for ex. will trivialize the dungeon to such an extent that the sprout doing it for the first time wont even really get to experience it at all. I understand having the mindset of "w/e gets this over with fastest" but a lot of sprouts do not have that mindset, and forcing them into it to appease endgame players is the exact kind of mistake many other MMOs constantly make. "i wish normal raids EXP drop was higher, since it drops literally like 1/4th of an trial roulette while being the same length" Could not agree more, esp. since a lot of the raids are harder/longer than trials sometimes "they simply should give us all our abilties, maybe remove the potency increase from traits. but the potency system alone should be able to handle the stat sync. (also when Zepla said "yoshi will likely say it's impossible due to budget" or whatever, they already got the sync system in place, they could just add the flag of "don't sync abilities" and it should be fine. (granted it might take their intern a day to figure out)" I feel like you're just kind of ignoring the inherent complexity of these systems and how they would have to be balanced. How do we balance the level 90 and level 58 to have an equal dps output when both have all the abilities theyve unlocked to that point? do we go in and manually configure potency tweaks at every major ability unlock level? thats a tremendous amount of work for a team that needs months to make basic PVP job tweaks (thats not a jab SE btw, its a genuine acknowledgment of the trickiness of game balance) If the stance is just "why care, just let us carry the sprouts through it all" I'm going to tell you now that Yoshi and the devs have made it abundantly clear they're moving away from catering to that stance, not towards it. We literally got the praetorium/westwind rework to stop that kind of experience, and for good reason. Praetorium was one of my worst dungeon experiences as a sprout, not because of long cutscenes, but because I didn't even get to actually play the dungeon. It felt like 2 or 3 ppl could do everything and the rest of us were just bonus dps. The changes you're asking for would see that experience extend to all duty roulette content, which would be a tremendously bad outcome for anyone who is playing the content for the first time.
@@Scorch052 Well, Kaiten was pretty obviously removed to mitigate ability bloat. I've noticed time and again they seem to seriously want to avoid giving jobs more than 3 full hotbars worth of abilities to use, understandably. As for just giving everyone all abilites, I'm very confused at how people don't understand that having a full lvl 90 toolset in Sastasha for ex. will trivialize the dungeon to such an extent that the sprout doing it for the first time wont even really get to experience it at all. I understand having the mindset of "w/e gets this over with fastest" but a lot of sprouts do not have that mindset, and forcing them into it to appease endgame players is the exact kind of mistake many other MMOs constantly make. let's start with Kaiten was removed because of ability bloat, what are you on about, you got shoha 1 and 2 (ST and AOE) or ikishoten into ogi namikiri? the fact that the majority of the SAM community is in an active oproar about it is telling that Kaiten was essential to the job (also the fact that SAM's APM became 1 less than Shadowbringers) the dungeons are literally just do and forget, also there's trusts now, so absolutely no reason to not give us all the abilities concidering that if you want an "true dungeon experience" go do trusts. the mistake that FF14 is actively making lately is appeasing to the casual audience while fucking over the endgame audience, while the endgame audience is more likely to stay than the casual audience past MSQ. Could not agree more, esp. since a lot of the raids are harder/longer than trials sometimes except if you get Titania, oh boy do i dread that duty in DF. thats a tremendous amount of work for a team that needs months to make basic PVP job tweaks (thats not a jab SE btw, its a genuine acknowledgment of the trickiness of game balance) i kinda feel this is overblown, the PVP team (which is seperate from the PvE team) are working on their own, but they were pretty quick and are actively rebalancing things based on numbers like "howmany wins vs howmany games did an certain job play" (from Yoshi himself) this is kinda the thing that also worries me since Kaiten was removed more because of the 50% straight up damage buff it basically gave, meanwhile literally ignoring it's importance on the job, now SAM has become an mindless Shinten spam. i've always said that they NEED an PTS for job balancing, since that'll give the more dedicated players time to test the numbers, which are 100x better at knowing their jobs damage and optimal rotation than the balancing team. We literally got the praetorium/westwind rework to stop that kind of experience, and for good reason. Praetorium was one of my worst dungeon experiences as a sprout, not because of long cutscenes, but because I didn't even get to actually play the dungeon. It felt like 2 or 3 ppl could do everything and the rest of us were just bonus dps. The changes you're asking for would see that experience extend to all duty roulette content, which would be a tremendously bad outcome for anyone who is playing the content for the first time. ah yes, i remember my 1st time going through that, i just watched the cutscenes and was done with it, then redid for the dungeon experience, not ideal but didn't hinder me that much, guess it can be for some that want to have an genuine experience, but it was still an cancer to the community since it would then lead to people go AFK and come back 10 minutes later because the cutscenes just kept going, or people would straight up quit marinium because it gave less EXP than praetorium. overal they have to start thinking more about the endgame community, the sprouts are being cared about, while the people who end up staying are being completely neglected. (yes i know, endgame dungeons are still coming, which are so braindead easy that again, healers are 100% optional, trials sure, but they aren't difficult either, same for normal raids which only come once every 2 major patches and 2 ultimates across the entire 2+ years)
@@DarkDyllon See, it feels to me more like a lot of the endgame community just wants FFXIV to be a game that its never really tried to be from what I can tell. It seems like for the people who want to sweat, they've always given them a little something to grind, but they've never been the focus of most of the content being developed. I think that's pretty understandable, personally. I'd think it would be very hard to logically justify investing the lion's share of your manpower developing high-end content that probably < 10% of your playerbase is actually going to even attempt, much less complete. Especially when you take into account the fact that very difficult content is typically more complex and thus more difficult to develop, or at least more time-consuming.
its ironic you say we are disconnected from a new players experience , yet you assume they care if we have more abilities. seem you are the one not understanding them
While I'm pretty happy with the game as a whole, I do feel that your level 50 kit should feel complete, and right now it doesn't at all. Red Mages have no finishers at level 50. White Mages have no Lillies at level 50. Black Mages don't get Enochian or Polyglots at level 50. The Paladin rotation doesn't even feel complete until level 80. Monks don't have Beast Chakra at level 50. I can go on and on for every job. The point is that most jobs' core identities are completely missing at level 50.
Not even just that, but some abilities just suddenly work completely differently, and it's extremely hard to remember at what level that happens. For example as blm you go from umbral ice into astral fire using fire 2 or 3, which instantly grants you AF3. But not at low levels, no. Then you have to remember to press that transpose so you don't loose your AF or UI when switching. I'd rather just have all my abilities unlocked functioning as they do at my current character level even if that means nerfing my raw damage output.
I wonder how much when you started playing affects how much this effects you. As someone who started in ARR and played through each expac, playing at each level cap feels fine, for the most part, certain reworked jobs and newer jobs notwithstanding. Looking at you Red Mage, Reaper, and Dancer...
In think to many people don’t take into account all the work that was done for crafters when talking about the differences in content for SHB vs SB. The only part that was a definite net loss was the postponement of the second ultimate. Endwalker will also have completely new forms of content in the island sanctuary and criterion dungeons, and its also bringing back deep dungeon. So well i do agree that FFXIV could do more to change up the formula i do think it’s a little disingenuous to say “it’s always the same and all we get is less”
There's also the quantity vs. quality debate. I'm hugely in favor of quality over quantity, and would rather have a total of 8-10 dungeons, 4-5 trials, and a few raids over the course of an expansion if those instances were all fun, interesting, and enjoyable, rather than to have 20+ dungeons, a dozen trials, and a dozen raids that were all 'meh' and forgettable.
But in this regard the quality of shadowbringers content in my opinion was lower quality than stormblood which had more per patch(not the story but the actual content), the weapon storyline was probably the best trial story line but the weapon fights were meh (if we don't include gimmick EXtremes i think Ruby weapon is by far the worst EX to date). The dungeons were incredibly forgettable, and i honestly think the nier raids may look the best but they are the biggest chore ever when you get them... especially paradigms breach which feels like a new MSQ roulette in length, the edens storyline and raids were decent but had some TERRIBLE fights, (heres looking at you E10... (barring the second tier which is possibly the worst tier of Savages i've ever done), But i feel like the quality vs quantity argument is lost when they decided to go to 1 forgettable dungeon a patch in shdaowbringers which then limits DR expert which already felt limited because of 1 of the expert dungeons always being story so always appeared more. yes ARR had a lot of content and a lot of it was meh, but theres such a thing as variety and at some point variety trumps quality as no one wants to do the exact same thing every day... Could you imagine if beast tribes were the exact same 3 quests a day most would give up on them and thats how i feel with DR expert now... so i would rather have 2 forgettable dungeons than 1... because Endwalkers been more of the same, the biggest saving grace is classes are not are close together as they were in shadow bringers...
It has been an observable trend since a realm reborn that it’s a game that you can sink your teeth into but won’t eff you up if you decide to take a break the only time this is ever brought up is when content creators are starving for content.I’m not saying ff xiv doesn’t have problems.It’s just that they are overinflated by content creators when,in the grand scheme of things,the problems are good problems to have cause they don’t rot the core of the game and why people keep coming back.
@@manumase i disagree that All Shadowbringers dungeons where forgettable in comparison to stormblood. Shadowbringers has some awesome dungeons . I will agree that eden is definitely not as good as Omega, but it still had some good bosses. I agree that Ruby weapon was awful but it also had some awesome EXs like seat of sacrifice. I can agree that overall the quality of the content of SHB was a bit less than SB (aside from the story which is god tier) but i don’t see that as a sign the quality of content will continue to go down hill. The first 24 man of EW is amazing and is way better than Rabanastre is, and DSR is an damn awesome encounter from a story telling perspective and a progression perspective (it does fall a bit in terms of reclear enjoyability however) We also have criterion dungeons coming (which could be awesome or maybe not we don’t know much about them yet)
@@shirox11 We also have to remember that Shadowbringers and Endwalker are also taking steps to revitalize the older MSQ stuff to make them faster, soloable, and higher quality. That's take resources but it will, in the end, also make for a better experience for new players who will then stick around to lay longer. I believe Yoshi-P already said in an interview that they are already seeing more people willing to play after these changes. I think 2.0 and 2.1 still needs some tweaks and they really need to get the new voice actors to voice act new scenes and redub old ones.
I can understand the want to keep your abilities. But for leveling up keep in mind it’s for new players to understand combat. A horror scenario is that people only know how to spam aoe and don’t take one step into learning the entire rest of their job. Leveling up is for new players, not for veterans. To that end, keeping your abilities and being in a group of people without those abilities just means you are doing all the work while they do nothing but run and catch up. Usually I’m in agreement with Zeplas points but this feels very short sided for the veteran player and punishing for the new.
It’s just a content creator problem.The lvl’ing system is fine as is at the moment.I mean yeah not using 90 ninja at lvl 15 satasha kinda sucks,but for a new player it would be too much.Just seems like it’s a tik tok zoomer attention span problem.
I felt the opposite in that they are trying to make a point that it's hurting everyone, especially veterans. I'm thinking specifically about where they said there's not a lot of point in leveling up your kit if you can't use it for the vast majority of the content. I do want to do old content to help new players but I don't want to relive being a new player myself just to do that.
@@SarcasticData - I sometimes learned how to do things for a class/job because people "had to play like a new player" (when I first start(ed) a class/job)... I do understand the frustration of it, though. I personally don't mind being restricted to only a few abilities... because it also helps me keep the basics of the class/job down (especially when I'm still learning how it works), while then developing/improving on some of the more advanced skills and/or combos, etc. (if that makes sense? XD).
There's one thing this redditor is not taking into account and it's the fact that most skill upgrades in the newer 10 levels are usually either potency+VFX increase, extra resource added and then probably one or two extra abilities at most. Rotations have, for the most part, remained stagnant, and they've been only extended with flip skills (the skills that transform into other skills on certain parts of the rotation) or trait upgrades. I believe they will most likely keep this process of condensing older buttons to leave way to newer ones while they keep trying to push more "downgraded" versions of the buttons for older levels.
Hey Zepla! Regarding what you said about having max level abilities in low level content: you would be correct that Yoshida would more than likely say no. Why? Because the dungeon is not built for max level abilities to just come in and deal with the content. Dungeons are synced down to a specific level to preserve that dungeon's experience in that expansion or level. Sure, it feels jarring when you're leveling and have to rethink rotations half the time, but it's also a balance they have to keep. Let's say I took BRD into Totorak with all its abilities up to Lv 90. The trash would be deleted by AoE like Rain of Death, not to mention Quick Nock is upgraded for more potency and can combo into a stronger AoE on proc. Then you've got your songs, which boost party damage while also having oGCD damage buttons to destroy mobs. Even synced down, the damage output would be more than enough for a single Lv 90 to take down the entire dungeon with a Tank. Tanks would outright solo the dungeon all by themselves if we're throwing WAR into the equation. It'd also be a bit jarring for new people to see one Lv 90 character mow down a whole group of mobs by themselves in no time flat - and make them wonder if they're missing out on something or if they're underpowered for the dungeon.
Guild wars 2 let you keep your unlocked skills on low level content, reducing your overall power. You still kill things faster the low level characters, but at least that contributes to the feeling of becoming stronger
i`m a developer and although i obviously can`t say anything about 14 devs, i can give a plausible reason to not do that: maintenance. Even if they perfectly adjusted all the skills to do the correct amount of damage at all possible level syncs, the next time a new skill would get released, they would need to redo every single dungeon rebalance again, and again and again... that is hell and time consuming for devs
@@ryenard This - they would have to retune every class for every single raid level. Plus, the argument people are making is poor - they can't practice their rotation because they don't have all their abilities when playing at 50? Because their main complaint is Crystal Tower it seems. The problem is that the bosses and mobs in this raid series sometimes die before I can get a lot of hits in so they would just die faster I think with lvl sync like WoW has. If they die faster? They still aren't going to be able to practice their rotation for end game.
@@IcyIann It really doesn't make you feel stronger just more competent than beginner. All this does is make new players who are just starting the content feel like they cant contribute at all and go away from the game.
@@gundown26 well, in GW2 i never felt like this. And if a lv 10 player gets sad that a max level character is stronger than him, i think he may well stop playing rpgs then.
I don't like the idea of joining low level dungeons and having multitudes more spells than the others either, gonna make lower level players feel useless and like they don't carry their weight and just getting carried. I think the core of the current system is fine, they just need to take a good, long look at job toolkits at each level bracket and adjust as needed. For example, there is no reason why all jobs shouldn't have an AOE ability at level 15. Just unlocking abilities is a bandaid approach. They need to fix the toolkits for lower levels. Plus on certain jobs it makes me feel nostalgic, sometimes even makes me switch playstyle (like blm), or bring up aforementioned nostalgia and allow me to use stuff I'm no longer able to use (mch turret for example, or rage of halone on PLD which I think is a lot more cooler than royal authority). Getting synced down can add an element of fun of its own.
i do understand that point, but on the flip side, it does make learning a class like BLM a royal pain because of how different they play at low levels compared to high level. Edit; to be clear i see it both ways. i do find meself being on the fence.
came from SWTOR, and Sync down doesnt exist over there, a Sync Up does, but it's kind of bad. doesnt give low levels top tier abilitys, but simply buff ups their stats so that they dont get one shot, it lead to situations where underleveled tanks did feel like a liability due to not having enough synced stats. I like the idea of having HW abilitys be present in HW dungeons specifically, it feels like a boat load of new content, even it is reused mechanics & content. The issue with reverts during syncs, is that it wouldnt solve the issue with expac classes like Reaper needing changes in content like ARR & HW
If plenty of people already dislike the sync down now, it only gets worse. The poster mentioned that there's a cap on the total num of abilities per job, but every expansion abilities are added. You might have nostalgia for low level content and being synced, but for people like you, there's others like me. I'm new to the game, but I haven't done any roulettes in forever bc being synced down to level 33 to press 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2 is probably the last thing I'd want to do with my time off work. In reality, they should just give players the option to keep abilities on sync. There's already some degree of visual progression of characters that could create the same affect on new players anyways, and one could argue that it might actually have a positive impact for low level players to see the potential for how badass and cool high level jobs become. I almost quit in ARR when I started bc the jobs felt so boring, the only reason I continued playing was because I watched videos and knew that they got a lot more interesting.
I'm not overly concerned. They've come such a long way, iteratively, that it's nothing like it was in 2.0. They've improved many many systems along the way but we tend to forget. Everyone wants immediate change, but it doesn't work that way. I don't know how many times over the past 10 years I had an idea of how the devs should fix an annoying system, only to see it solved in a much better and more unique way a couple years later. I also don't know how many times they fixed something that we didn't know needed to be fixed at all and it resulted in an improvement.
Lulls are wonderful. Its perfect for those of that have long-term in-game goals that usually get put to the side with major content patches like savage and ultimate
I think SE has some lulls in end-game because as a major creator of other games? They realize it's healthy for not just FFXIV, but also the gaming community and economy as a whole.
For spreading abilities across more levels and making lower levels more fun I think they can make more skills have upgrades. Assassinate on Ninja becomes Dream Within a Dream at higher levels. The skills are a little different, but they still get used in the same way and sit on the same spot on your hot bar and automatically change based on your level. Why not have a 3rd tier skill replace Dream at a higher level? Gun Breaker has a combo at low levels that gets a continuation button that augments each part of the combo at mid levels, and then at 90 the continuation still does that, but now also augments a whole different skill. No extra buttons added to the hot bar at 90 but there is a new attack to weave in from that "continuation" button. One button essentially providing first 3 and later 4 additional skills to weave in. So why not 5? Or another button that adds different augments to other things. In PvP Ninja's mudra button changes a bunch of skills into entirely different skills - something like this might be able to be used as well - for example at higher levels maybe Dancer's steps while they're dancing could be given damage effects or Dragoon could get a high leap that changes some of their attacks into a different set of attacks to choose from to do as they land. And of course there are numerous examples of skills that simply become stronger versions of themselves as you level up. I think the FF team still has a number of options for how to provide skills across large level ranges without the number of buttons getting out of control.
My idea for syncing and keeping skills has been to have some points in the leveling process that act as savespots. like, you go into a lower level dungeon you keep all your skills to 50, between 50-70 you get all your skills till 70 and past that you get everything. Makes all jobs feel a little more complete without needing to balance level 90 skills in low level dungeons.
This also helps mitigate the "I rather we had a lvl 90 sync down SAM than this lvl 45 DRG with not even one AoE". Paired with reworking jobs so more new skills overwrite older ones so that in each "step" they all feel more complete, would be perfect.
I have a suggestion to change the Glam System to be more like a collection where you can have 1 of every item rather than a dresser with limited space. It would actually give people an incentive to play older content to complete their collection while also giving everyone more options for glams. Other games do this, I don't see why we need to limit dresser space for 400 (apparently soon to be 800). This is just one of many solutions that can be implemented, and obviously wont solve everything on its own.
I always thought it was limited because of spaghetti code. A great suggestion that's been brought up numerous times but they are unlikely to devote much dev time to it due to the huge undertaking it would be.
@@pertown the spaghetti code in 1.0 was really really bad and they still have some it if they have to deal with, not to mention limitations on ps3/ps4 hardware. for example summoning a retainer literally loads that retainer including its entire inventory for EVERY PERSON in the zone but flagged as invisible to everyone but you
@@21warmasters the only way to fix the spaghetti code is to get rid of it. but ofc they wont do that because of legacy players. the devs dont want to forget 1.0 players that had been helping them
I really felt what they said about getting synced down and not being able to use your cool skills. I used roulettes to get every job to 80 in shadowbringers. Now I just can't bring myself to do roulettes (except expert) at all unless a friend is running them. I just do fates or 81+ dungeons to level because I hate getting synced down so much
In the lead up for HW I was thinking that they'd lean hard into the Trait system. Get the abilities early so that you have something to press and do, but add complexity, potency, and better animations as you level via Traits. Every expansion I keep thinking that they'll finally do it, but the ability gap just gets wider and wider. They've moved a few abilities to be lower level, like that DRK AoE, but I'd love to see them really tackle the issue in 7.0
After seeing new summoner and playing it most of this expansion, this is really what they should be doing. All classes some have some low level abilities that come at the same levels with different potencies that are upgraded over time. It makes the job feel a lot better while leveling and syncing doesn't feel as bad because most buttons are still usable in some form.
Yeah it kinda feels like traits still have some untapped potential... Sometimes they feel outright wasted. One that comes to mind is the Darkside Mastery trait on DRK which upgrades the "Flood" and "Edge" abilities from their "Darkness" to "Shadow" counterpart... But aside from getting a potency bump, that's straight up it. I do feel like "evolving" abilities as you level them, that is, changing them once you hit certain thresholds, is a potential way to reduce bloat but also like, dude, get a bit creative with it lol. If all they do is change the name and up the potency, well... that's just damn boring.
@@JJMomoida I agree. I think doing small, but impactful, additional effects feel good. As a Scholar, getting the heal over time attached to Sacred Soil feels very nice. It's a small change, the potency isn't insane, but it brings a lot of bonuses with its base use (damage reduction). And tanks getting their spam tank CDs, like HoD from GNB and Bloodwhetting from WAR, are good ways to bring life to new abilities. And example of something they could do is like with DRK having the trait that lowers Plunge CD when using Unmend? What if it makes Unmend have a cooldown (say 10 seconds) but it's now an ABILITY and thus now an OGCD. This would make it a skill that, uniquely for tanks, encourages using it off cooldown to fuel the engage tool, which edges in more damage. Another example is how they change Bio from Scholar to Biolysis. Instead of a potency increase (which is all they did), what if if gave the Scholar additional effects on Ruin3, Ruined and Energy Drain? Small ones, like with Ruin3, it increases spell haste for your next Ruin3, but breaks when using another GCD spell. Energy Drain can deal increased damage while Biolysis is up. And Ruin 2 can consume the Biolysis to deal a burst of bonus damage, scaling with LESS time on Biolysis left. (Thus, you wait for it to tick down low, use Ruin 2, and then reapply). The Trait system, I think, is key to making new and exciting changes without increasing the Button Bloat issues. Transforming skills to not just "do more Damage!" But also "do more shit" that leans ever heavier on the things the Job likes.
@@JJMomoida evolving abilities would add a little more personality to the character aswell i guess branching skill tree or something like that...unless i just read your comment and im way off base in which case ignore me haha
@@JoltzDaGhost while I'd love branching options and choices, I personally think it wouldn't be within the realm of possibility for 14. Only because it would seriously mess with a huge focus of theirs: Balance. But I do admit, I'd love to have the choice of making certain skills have a special effect OR doing more damage and letting each job have more expression skill wise.
I was thinking about this yesterday. If you sink down below 60 with Dancer, you lose Closed Position... You know.... the main idea of the class. It's so weird to me that wasn't designed as a low-level action.
I feel this way about bard songs. In lower-level content you don't have those. And I understand it just places you back as "archer" status, but when you earn the title of bard, I just think you should still have those abilities. But that is just my opinion.
ESO gets around this by having enemies dynamically sync to players instead of players syncing to enemies. So a max level would be fighting a monster that feels like a max level mob, but that same mob would feel like a lvl 15 mob to a lvl 15 character. This would only be for duties that require level sync obviously. I feel like it’d work pretty well in FFXIV.
That is actually a neat idea. But how does that work if you play together with lower level players, say, one level 30 one and one level 10 one? Would the level 30 one fight the enemy scaled for their level and the lvl 15 one the same scaled to theirs?
This is the same way it works in WoW. The trick here is behind the curtains all monsters are designed at their max level version, and player output is multiplied the lower level they are, and disguised as lower numbers/levels on their screen. Like everything this also has drawbacks, like the feeling youre being "punished" to a harder rotation and having to put more work to get the same output the level 30 bard gets by spamming Quick Nock.
The true solution to this (that seems the most likely given what they’re doing with the new glossary system they added in EW) is to section off 2.0-6.0 content into their own optional solo only content using trust system (which they’re updating every patch). Then everything from 6.1 onward becomes the equivalent of FFXIV-2, where starting in 7.0 the only “old content” available to roulette from will be from 6.1->6.5. New players could optionally choose to start at 6.3 or do 2.0 solo with trusts, like a new game+ style opt in. This will also probably come with a level squish back down to 50 if I had to guess.
delubrum was a pain without premade even in shadowbringers. no1 using actions it literly took like 50 min if you just queued for it. for relic steps that force you to sync down are a perfect place to dust of the blue mage. you get to you all ur skills on blue mage no matter the lvl. keeping ur skills when you get synce down will never work. imagine joining lvling rolo and you get match with a sprout in satasha, he will have his basic 1-2 combo, meanwhile you have all your skill from lvl 90, the balance would be impossible.
24:00 that's what I thought too. BLM literally deals less dmg than any heal or tank up till lvl 50, starts doing some dmg at 60 and becoming OK at lvl 70. I thought they should perhaps get some additional lvling skill, one aoe, one single target and one buff kinda like leylines to help em get to lvl 70. I had literally 2 friends that quit the game and when I asked them what job they played they said, thaumaturge. Well no shit that jobs boring till lvl 70 and becomes really good at 80
A solution might be to give each job a leveling kit, say 20-50 (1-20 for basics). Then for each expansion bump up that kit (e.g. 20-60, 20-70). That way skills outside your leveling kit will always be acquired over the last 30 or so levels. To keep things less boring they can always keep the mechanics in your leveling kit similar but offer potency increases using traits (or upgraded skills if they want to put in the effort).
Some stuff should also be rearranged. Like, why does paladin get their gap closer 12-15 levels later than the other tanks? it's not because it's better or anything, it's just cuz it was introduced in ShB, therefore it's a 70+ ability....for reasons. And new summoner is....painfully empty until 86, once again, because all the new stuff apparently can only be in 80+ because it came with EW...
What if they upscaled old dungeons if a party was all above a certain lvl? All they would need to do is up the stats of the enemies, not the players, and that would allow the party to use their whole kit.
When I was doing Delubrum(it was just before EW release), we only got 4 people and everyone was determined to finish it, so no leavers. That was one of the most fun things I've ever done in the game. I was the only healer, so we literally had to learn every mechanic in the raid. I watched other streamers play DR, and they just blasted through it without even seeing the mechanics due to the high dps. The whole raid ended up taking around 2 hours due to wiping, but it felt incredible when we finally finished it.
So basically made the system similar to Guild Wars 2 system where once you have reach the max level, on whatever zone you are you will keep the unlockable abilities but at the end the damage will be adjusted accordingly based on the zone's level which is very great and keep the momentum of playing fun because you will not having some blockage that hinder your fun smashing those rotations... This I agree 100% but as Zepla said having the system's legacy is being made that way, changing to this is going to cost lot more development time and their focus right now is to enhance new player experience and graphical updates which have a timeline by itself. This can be categorically as new player and veteran experience and they need to look into potential syncing issue if they want to do this approach.
As someone who takes frequent breaks, I will say that one thing I like about the level sync system is that I can go into low level dungeons to relearn abilities and slowly go into higher level content as the rust shakes off. It keeps things from feeling too overwhelming to only add back a few abilities at a time. That said, when I've been playing for a while, low levels do start to feel bad. I groan when I get Sastasha. I think this has more to do with low level design than the system itsself. When shaking off rust, I can run Sastasha once or twice then jump up 5-10 levels. When you're leveling, you might not have this liberty. I think this is something that gets overlooked in favor of divesting resources to other areas and pumping out new content.
@Ry well for starters it'd make it so people would actually have a AoE when they get synced that far down and believe me I've gone from 90 to the teens and it feels really bad not having a AoE.
@Ry I was against the aoe cone changing into circle on WAR, but sure… When you do a dungeon like Tam-Tara where a wall-to-wall pull has 10+ mobs, it’s very annoying to use single target on them, especially if you’re on lancer or rouge
@18:00 Watch this! Two options. Option 1 keeps it the way things are now, where your job syncs down to the appropriate level. **or** Option 2, your overall damage and healing potentials scale down hard to compensate for having all of your weapon skills, abilities, and spells available at your current level. The scaling amount increases with how far away you are in level from the content you're playing and it could be selectable when duty pops with a checkbox to remember the setting. Edit: For example, a level 30 healer's limited amount of spells would be unaffected in the duty whereas a level 90 healer will have to use all of their spells to keep up when option 2 synced to that same duty. Same for dps who have more fleshed out kits and damage potentials. I hope I've communicated this in a clear way.
The problem with this is that there are a lot of players who are really quite bad at their max level jobs, and it will show a lot more when they're compared to a sprout who's hitting all of their available buttons easily.
I have played FF14 off and on for some time. Love the game overall. One thing my friend and I have noted is that it is really hard to get a feel for a jobs full kit outside of a dungeon or raid. Story mode quests and environmental mobs just die too fast. There's no rotation, no real way to see what a class can do outside of a dungeon where there's heavy pack pulls to learn damage mitagation as a tank or a boss with massive health to actually learn a rotation. This always made the story feel like, travel here, talk to A, travel there, talk to B, cutscene. Repeat until dungeon. For such a story focused game it really surprised me that to truly feel like I'm playing my job I have to be inside of a dungeon.
@@Spirosbotos Of course training dummy can help learn rotation, but that doesn't mean I feel like I'm actually playing my class during regular story mode. Generally a 1,2,3 combo is enough to kill any mob. Maybe doing the combo twice in some instances. That's what I mean by rotation outside of a dungeon or boss
I recently picked up SWTOR just to experience the story and was incredibly surprised by the fact that I kept all my abilities when scaled down. By the time I was lvl 70 I felt incredibly overpowered even when scaled down to the starting planet's level. I feel like level sync with full lvl 90 kit would be incredibly risky in terms of balance.
I felt the same way when I started. To me it felt like it passed in the blink of an eye as I played. Not to mention since then they shaved a lot of unneeded stuff in the story to make catching up easier. My advice is to just start and enjoy it
I think revamping old content is needed. Between ARR and Heavensward , the filler story was too much. How many times did I have to recruit 10 Npcs, hand out clothes, hand out medicine, hand out notes, get the option of residents …etc I felt so agitated that these “filler” quests killed a lot of fun in the game. But after talking to people, in the past content after ARR was very dry and this was a hold over for Heavensward But like the original ARR dungeons, they should revamp and cut out the filler between the ARR and Heavensward sections. It feels so unprofessional and clunky
I did around 1 month per expansion. just enjoy the game at your own leisure. within 5 month, I finished endwalker from ARR. and still got stuff to explore and find new stuff
Personally, I wanna see more roulettes. I think a decent part of this problem stems from the fact that the existing roulettes can hit SO MANY instances but they end up almost always landing on something really low level just due to the large number of lower level players and stinky people who ilvl cheese for alliance raids and things like that. I propose that the existing Levelling, Alliance, Trials, Normal Raids, and 50/60/70/80 Roulettes get split in half. I wanna see Levelling 1-60 and Levelling 61-89; Alliance ARR/HW and Alliance SB/ShB/END; Trials ARR/HW and Trials SB/ShB/END; Normal Raids HW/SB and Normal Raids ShB/END; and 50/60 Dungeons + 70/80 Dungeons. Now I realize that this presents problems in that the devs probably don't want to hand out tomestones and XP at literally double the existing rate and that they also want to still incentivize players to do the older content to help sprouts. I think offering players more avenues to get XP is less of a problem, as the game gets bigger people need more and more XP to level all the different jobs available to them and with the level cap getting bigger and bigger every xpac I don't think there's anything wrong with giving people more options to get alt jobs to max level. Still, if this is an issue for the dev team you could offer less xp and that wouldn't be a problem, because I think you could address this by instituting a different reward for the 'newer' content roulettes. To get your tomestones and your big xp bonuses you always need to do the lower level roulette (with an exception on Expert, of course) but if you do a newer roulette you can get a reward in the form of MGP, maybe a guaranteed Wondrous Tails seal, perhaps some unique dyes or lockboxes with minions and mounts, and a lesser but still respectable amount of XP. I think this is fine because the newer content is INTRINSICALLY fun and doesn't need an external source of reward to incentivize players to do it. If these roulettes existed, I would functionally play the game twice as much as I currently do and have a great time doing it because I WANT to run this content and I'm fine putting in the time I'm already committing to the lower level stuff to get my tomestones and XP/Gil/Materia roulette bonuses. Doing this roulette split would give players a vehicle to party with each other to play the content they actually want to play, and I don't believe it would take a large amount of dev resources to implement a satisfactory reward system as I proposed earlier.
Actually love this idea! My main issue with doing low level content is how you’re (obviously) stripped of your skills and basically have nothing to use. Now yeah I get that as it’s low level dungeons and you don’t have skills unlocked at that point but doing the first few dungeons were you don’t even have any aoe skills is extremely annoying. I think they could allow you to have atleast one aoe skill unlocked before entering the first dungeon. So because of that issue I tend to avoid the levelling roulette as I usually always get put into one of the first few starting dungeons with no aoe skills
On the note of keeping abilities, role actions already work like that, once your monk has unlocked true north at level 50 you will always have it no matter how synced you are, even in sastasha. That function is already in the game, it is just questionable if they would be willing to add it to other abilities.
I feel like, if you do all the content as it goes out then old content become irrelevant. But for new player its amazing to be able to do the old stuff. Coming from wow I really enjoy it. BUT I'm not gonna lie. I miss a system like mythic plus that allow me to do something else than raid with a smaller group of ppl and play my lvl 90 nin and practice other jobs. I know there is palace of the dead but its not the same. I mean, maybe I feel like this because we cleared the raid kinda fast and have been on farm for a while now.
I for one am against having higher end abilities for low level stuff. For your Elder Scroll online, when I was playing, if you’re new and doing the dungeon with randoms, you are pretty much just dead weight for those who have all their abilities unlock. For they just rush forward and don’t wait for you as they one shot almost everything. It made playing the story frustrating. Same thing could happen here when a sprout runs a dungeon but all the other members just run ahead and clear everything without sweating.
You can already clear everything without sweating. 14 is an easy as hell game up until some of the optional raids and endgame content. I ran conjurer and white mage all the way from my first time loading up the game to clearing the latest savages, the game is piss easy for main story players. I do see your point on newer people but I'd argue that's a selfish mentality. "I'd feel like dead weight so everyone else must be brought down to my level in terms of access to the game." I'd posit that's what damage scaling is for. Implementing more instances of the number adjustment traits could be one option. IMO SWTOR does this quite well in that they automatically scale down their version of potency to be appropriate for whatever level the area is synced to. While having access to 10 abilities will make things faster and easier than only having access to 5, I'm not sure it would be as drastic as the 5 ability player being dead weight.
One of the solution would be to have rotations fleshed out earlier. Some jobs don't even have a proper rotation at 50 nowadays with how barebones and spread out over all level tiers the skills are. Condensing the addition of new skills to lower levels at lower potencies and progressively increasing the potencies through the levels could achieve a better feeling of gameplay at lower level while still keeping the damage in line. You don't even have to have a "full" rotation at 50, but when most jobs have nothing to show for 40+ levels, it can also be quite a deterrent for newcomers if they get bored out of their mind gameplay wise.
I do Delubrum Reginae normal 1-2 per week, for quest, and because I like it, and I enjoy making parties through Party Finder - good for me. The only bad thing is that we need to wait 10 min, after we register for duty, to start it. 3 min would be enough
Making a point about who is doing Delubrum Regina Normal without a premade is like asking who is doing mount farming from extreme trials without a premade. Most of the topic is just answered with party finder, we just need to remove the stigma party finder has that people see, which are party finder pepega lulz bad raid memes. I've completed 5 Resistance weapons after Endwalker, just use the goddamn party finder.
I do agree that people need to be comfortable with the idea of party finder, it's a great tool that will get the job done. And minus PF for savage content most of the time it's a chill place. The one thing I see is that people think they can force their ways on other people's party finder. Like...if you want to run a specific strat make your own PF and specify how you want things, dont think people should cater to you when you aren't party leader. But that's a different topic all together
This ties in with what I think the criterion dungeons will be. I think they'll be level 90 versions of old dungeons, perhaps a rotating selection similar to how expert changes over time. Playable with a party or solo with the trusts.
I highly doubt the criterion dungeons will be lvl 90 versions of old dungeons as they indicated we'll only get 3 or 4 dungeons (can't remember the exact amount). Although it would be really cool to see older content coming back, like what they're doing with unreal fights.
Personally the large pool of content is the draw....to me its not a distinction of old and new content. The old content matters just as much as the new since it gives me a chance to get high end rewards for doing literally anything below me that another player needs to do. I agree the using a lower level kit is kinda painful sometimes but I dont mind it as much. As always button bloat will always be an issue with no easy solution other than to keep pruning and consolidating. The alliance raid thing is definitely something that needs to be looked at theres too much cheese and redundancy in doing syrcus over and over. Need to decouple from ilvl perhaps in order to broaden the pool for roulette.
I was working on my first resistance weapon earlier this month and I used Party Finder to do DR normal. It was not hard to find a group (some nights even had multiple PF listings up for DR normal). I didnt need to use Discord at all.
That was my first thought when she was like "It's a nightmare WITH Discord. How would people do it without?!" Um, with the in-game party finder? The thing made for that exact purpose. I'm just imagine a montage of a decade+ of MMO history where people did things without Discord.
meanwhile it was the opposite for me. spent about a month stuck on the bozja story simply because i couldn't find people to do dr. and the one time i did (with 6 people i think?), we wiped once and half the people left. dunno if it's the active time, just crystal being crystal, or just being unlucky about when i checked party finder, but still
This sounds like a lot of entitled gamers complaining. What is the difference between this and "Why don't they give me all my new abilities as soon as the new expansion is released?" All of the content that you sync for is optional, outside of some relic grinds or special item grinds which are also optional. If you don't like syncing down then don't run that content? Having someone with all of their abilities running a level 20 dungeon will make the level 20 person feel useless because they only have a handful of abilities. It will also destroy the balance of those dungeons. Because at some of those levels jobs don't have abilities and the content is balanced for that. So you going in with a full AOE combo in a beginning dungeon would decimate that content and make it lame to run for new players. The complaints here are never going to be worth the time required to rebalance that content and it honestly isn't worth it. So if you don't want to sync just don't run it.
this. They never thought about what if a level 31 sprout ninja see and ask why another "level 31" synced down ninja what are all those skills and why don't they have it. It just doesn't make sense.
I have a bit of experience in Bozja. The raid is really difficult to matchmake into a group that is above 6 people, however I've heard that using partyfinder is much better. As far as inside Bozja itself, I'm frequently seeing 40+ people (cap is in the 70s) and most of the time you'll have 20+ people in the recruitment activities. Still very active in my opinion.
While I agree that playing with full tookkit at lvl cap feels better, I think it would get annoying having to go that hard in low level duties just to do barely more damage than a sprout pressing two buttons.
I’ve always thought they should add new tiers to existing jobs rather than just adding a new job altogether. With a next expansion you instantly unlock a new version of an existing job Paladin becomes Templar Machinist becomes Gunslinger Red Mage becomes Mystic Knight White Mage becomes Purest Ninja becomes Shinobi
As a sprout, I have to say, the syncing does present a bit of an annoyance. I have consistently been about 10 levels above the content for the expansion I am currently running. So, I'll get all these cool new skills, then log into endgame content for my current expansion, and lose all of those skills. Leveling roulette scrapes you so bare in some cases that its kinda wild. DRK is legitimately 2 attacks and an AOE, and SMN is heartbreaking watching your hard earned summons revert to Carbuncles.
They could just force a min iLvL on higher level players for earlier dungeons. The extra skills should make up the difference.
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With SMN I hate playing before I get Bahamut, it just feels clunky... but the Summons - I hate that they took my Carbies for the 90 skills. First thing I did was /petglamour the ugly summons back to cute carbies :D
@ I love the sense of progression of SMN. So when my egis revert to Carbuncle, it feels worse than just having lower level skills, it feels like my character themselves has been reverted. I haven't made it to 70 yet on my SMN, but it definitely has felt like they were missing like half of their rotation the entire time. I will say that Dreadwyrm Trance helps it a LOT though. The class feels so much better at 60 than it has the entire time.
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@@SerothTalon that's why I love the command. I prefer the loom of my carbies but totally get the feel of progression with the different sumons. I would love to summon giant carbies to the battlefield though.
I've been leveling Ninja, it's at 60 right now, and every time I do leveling roulette, I pray I am not sent to a dungeon that syncs me below level 26. For some reason Ninja gets the 3rd part of their combo at 26, so getting synced below that is beyond painful. I'm spamming the same two buttons over and over, but unlike healer, I don't have any other abilities on low cooldowns to flesh that out. It means dungeons below 26 are mind numbingly boring. I'd love to have access to my entire kit no matter the level. Just sync my stats. I play all the classes too, so it's hard to remember all the different rotations for each class at different levels. Like you said, getting synced down to 50 is boring. Even at 60 Ninja feels a lot more fun and fleshed out. I just want to be able to play any class at any level with access to its full abilities.
Honestly I'm against new jobs next expansion, they should focus at the current ones and polish them out instead. For example: gunbreaker, dancer, sage and reaper doesn't have much weapon glamour options because they are newer jobs (really hope to see old ultimate weapons added for these), but that shouldn't happen at all, just because they are new? sam and rdm have weapons for lv50 extremes despite not being at base game The more jobs they add the harder it will be to manage them all to be equally viable and quality will suffer for sure, or they will increase time between patches again just to deliver the bare minimum Something else that bothers me on this current format is msq duties (dungeons and trials). Are we always going to have a dungeon at levels x1, x3, x5, x7 and x9? because it makes the story having to lead into them within a time limit instead of flowing naturally. What if the story went on a chill moment at level 80 until, idk, 83 and then it gets so much action that 84, 85, 86 all have dungeons? Honestly it would've been a breath of fresh air, when I played through arr I could never tell when a duty was near compared to the expansions
Is this reddit post just a disguised request for having all your abilities for level sync. The same topic asked for since ARR by a small group of people. Was the whole preamble before just to hide the request deep into the post to try and get the people that only read the first bit to agree?
a reshuffling of the job unlocks is something I think definitely needs to happen. For example. - As a Warrior, not having Inner Release kinda feels bad. Similar to not having Bahamut as a Summoner. - Its really stupid that Dance Partner - One of Dancer's most important and class defining abilities - can't be used in places like Praetorium and a quarter of POTD because its a level 60 ability. Similar issue as Reaper being incredibly bad to play below 70. - Speaking of which *SAGE CANNOT USE THEIR DoT BELOW LEVEL 30 WHEN THE OTHER HEALERS CAN. WHY???* If SE wanted Sage to not have access to shield before Scholar (fair), at least lock Eukrasian Diagnosis/Prognosis. *Not Eurkresa itself.* Moving up DRK's second aoe to be at a more reasonable level was a step in the right direction, but more jobs than just DRK need similar treatment. It feels ass to be playing a job and not be able to use its unique functions (Enshroud on RPR, Dance partner on DNC, Eukrasian Dosis on SGE, ect) because you are below a certain level. But as far as replayability goes. I am not a wow convert but I started playing at around the same time as that big WoW wave, I have all the ARR relics, almost stockpiled up for all the HW relics, and good headway into SHB relics. I have BIS on my main (without doing any level 90 savage: Ilevel 597) with a 590 tank and healer (working on the rest), and I have all the EX and Savage raid mounts up to Stormblood. Heck, I maxed out every job in the game, including crafters and gatherers and even got myself a full mentor crown. And there is *still shit I haven't done.* I am not even half way through Eureka, still progging my first Ultimate, let alone even so much as touched any of the others. I have Gwibers, I have Lynxes, the Eden mounts, Pandemonium Savage, and chocobo racing just to name a few things I haven't done. Heck just yesterday I started working on the verminion challenges for the Clockwork Twintania. There is a *lot* of content in this game. As for DR normal, there are still people interested in doing it. Its the most efficient way to farm for the relic weapon for that step, and its required to progress the Bozja storyline. I see it in party finder occasionally and its very doable with 8 people, even if a few of them are new, and to my experience you don't have to wait too long if you put one up yourself to get a full party.
Outdated content is only outdated to people who only play a one or two maxed out jobs, or someone who has everything maxed already. Plenty of people run “outdated” content, and will do for as long as there are new players or jobs to level. I do agree with many of the other points, though, specially the abilities locked when sync.
I'm a relatively new player and I'm already tired of old content bc of how syncing works. I can't be bothered to run any roulettes (seriously, I haven't ran a PvE roulette in months), bc I enjoy playing my jobs with all my abilities, and it's jarring and unfun to play my favorite jobs without my kit. I think at least for casual content (basically non-ultimate content) they should just crunch the numbers on total potency every 10 levels for every job, and allow people to set a preference somewhere if they'd rather be level synced with their current level's kit, in which case they'd have basically a damage down debuff that sort of equalizes the kit's total potency. This is not a lot of manual work tbh. Take the 1 or 2 minute total potency for each job every 10 levels, then apply a debuff equal to the difference between their current closest 10 level tier, and the rounded down 10 level tier of what they're synced to. The numbers could be crunched legit in an afternoon for all jobs.
@@yScribblezHD personally if i play "old content" i want my job be like same than is was in the old time. for example if i do old raid i don't want skills what didn't exist yet.
@@kmeanxneth Savage content isn't meant to have the same relevancy as Ultimate content long term. If adding the option to change how sync works for content, adding that to Ultimate would have an impact that's not worth having. Adding the option to old savage content though isn't really hurting anything, you can unsync that stuff anyways. It's not casual, I just meant it's not really an issue to let people sync to old savage stuff with a full kit :P
@@kmeanxneth That's why I said you can have the option. That being said, syncing down is NOTHING like how jobs used to be for any pre-Shb content from my understanding. I didn't play back then, but ARR and HW jobs were insanely different from what I hear, and I think between Shb and SB there were huge changes to stuff like aggro management for tanks. If you like having the skills that you'd have at that level though, I do think people should be able to choose :)
@@kmeanxneth Having abilities removed doesn't mean you get the same experience people had. Because from an expansion to an other, kits are changed or reworked. And you can only experience the content being min or max ilevel, you can't mimic the fact that, unless you clear the content week one, people never did min ilvl but had a few pieces to help them
Speaking of Bozja I plan doing the questline soon as I really want the gunbreaker weapon from it. So hoping I don't have too many issues with getting people.
Don't worry. Bozja is still very active. There are 3 required "dungeons" that might be hard to find a party for, but I think getting into a Bozja-centric Discord might solve the issue.
Just because someone doesn't like a design doesn't automatically mean it's a "problem" that needs to be changed. This isn't a problem unless you specifically have a problem with it. Most often this is people who are obsessed with "rotation" complexity. Level sync has a lot of benefits and often-times is actually fun/interesting/engaging. While I understand why some people dislike fewer buttons/less complex rotations that doesn't make it "bad". I for one often prefer doing level sync content specifically because of the fewer buttons, not "always" but "often". It's actually quite nostalgic. There most definitely is room for improvement on the ability distribution across levels but that's hardly and argument for "the game needs to change".
I feel like at least noting things like Eureka and Bozja, yes there's still loads of players doing that content but to a certain extent I reckon that's cause there's a lack of max level content to do. I mean if you're max level but you're not into raids or extremes there's nothing for you right now other than logging in to do your weekly things. Which I suppose is how they utilise older content, by having other jobs and the roulettes, however I also feel like older content shouldn't be seen or used to supplement the lack of current content. In terms of overall content it seems like they've been adding less and less since SB, less dungeons, less trials, Bozja had significantly less content I feel compared to Eureka and being over 6 months into the expansion with no casual/midcore endgame content feels like something that should be addressed before the next expansion. Like for me it feels ridiculous that it takes so long to implement the relic weapons now, seemingly for no reason as well, in ShB you can say sure we got ocean fishing and several stages of Ishgard Restoration before the relic weapons but EW doesn't have anything like that. Small note on jobs, I suspect that we're maybe going to get a total max of like 5 jobs before they stop adding new jobs, as much as they've said about creating new jobs for XIV, they've also equally spent a lot of time talking about how hard balancing is and the increasing difficulty to balance jobs the more get added, plus the continuied homogenisation of jobs especially tanks which has come with every expansion which I feel is a direct result of trying to make it easier to balance jobs. And I've said it multiple times, it's awesome that the devs have the "if you're not having fun go play something else" mentalitity, however that only works if players come back and since I'd say 5.2 I've noticed increasing amounts of friends and FC members who just don't come back. So I do feel they need to make changes to how they deliver content and what content they deliver just so they can retain their players, more specifically their veteran players, new players they have no trouble getting and keeping, I being one of them from near the end of SB, but after playing through all of ShB it does feel somewhat disappointing that I'm not as surprised as I should be for upcoming content because I can make pretty solid guesses as to what is coming in future patches based purely on the fact their schedule has been exactly the same for years. Also I'm still very salty about the viera and hrothgar hair/hat situation and the high lack of dev comments about it, I mean come on like on what planet is it acceptable for them to not be able to use newly released headgear like come on SE
I love the lul. I’ve only played for a year since leaving WoW and I still have so much to do. I’m also doing current content like the tribal quests which has its own story lines and quite chill. A little palate cleanser between major patch and way shorter than WoW with a bunch more content to fill me in between. And I’m saying this as a 15 year WoW veteran
in my experience the kinds of people that complain the most about content are the ones that speed through everything and skip any dialog. (at least the newer players that came in the last year or so) Im a student and current have the entire summer off and ive clocked 950 hours in a little over 13 weeks ( but i did have a break after the first 6 weeks that lasted a few months because of school) anyway, its so much more engaging to go through the story slowly, read everything and it feels like you're really a part of the world. It makes it much more enjoyable.
I think one very interesting part of this discussion, the weaker less powered version of core abilities, pops up in summoner. Aether charge, is something you get very early, and later on becomes summon Bahamut. Does it summon a dragon? No but it does give you your gems, and a short buff period. I'm not sure how you'd tone down a reaper's enshroud mechanically, but you could easily have the lore explanation be you just channel some of your voidsent's power.
i don't see any problem with the sync down system. You basically just press less buttons and only have to do it like 1 game a day or probably not during roulette if you're unlucky enough. why bother fixing and putting such work on the dev for such trivial thing? Plus having all of your skills in satasha just doesn't make any sense. They made skills unlocked thru leveling to give a sense of progression. You're not supposed to have 69 skills at level 15 while a true sprout has 2 buttons at 15. It would be great if the team focus more of polishing the jobs we're having now til 7.0
I've never had the impression that CBU3 is complacent about potential issues. They're undoubtedly aware of things like this and thinking of potential solutions.
the only problem that CBU3 has is when they’re blissfully unaware of an issue people have, rather than ignoring it. It took them a long time to learn players outside of Japan might have issues with high ping messing with their burst-y rotations, for example
lulls in ffxiv are fine, they give me a chance to take a break and go play other things idd like to play. as for the loss of skills when leveling down im not a fan, but i understand why its done. should they fix it? nah idd rather them spend that time making other content. i feel the reward for playing low level content is good enough to keep the majority of players running it. if its too boring for you dare i say multi task and do something else. runescape on another monitor or a mobile phone game works nicely while you just spam your 1 button rotation. heck just watch netflix while doing old content if its soo boring.
It is something defo worth developer time because currently being downscaled to a 1 buttom rotation makes alot of peoples simply avoid that content which means that content is dead and right now 90% of the game have pretty much no players (previous expansions) because being downscale is something alot of peoples avoid like the plague because their class just dosent feel good playing in that content. You have to realise that by fixing this one simple thing they open up a whole bunch of new doors for peoples to explore and enjoy.
I believe a good solution to the level sync and ability issue is to just adjust acquiring base abilities to be within 1-50, so you have /essentially/ the full kit at 50 which is when raid content (Coils) starts, so syncing the content doesn't feel like a punishment. 51+ are limited to upgrade abilities (Stone > Stone II > Stone III > Stone IV > Glare > Glare III) and then, maybe have 60, 70, 80, 90, on get one unique ability (Communio, Shadowbringer, etc.), but that's a HUGE maybe because of the fact one ability can change how a job is played. But even if it does, you still get a full kit at the level that raid content for ARR starts with, so you're not /completely/ missing out on things if you want to go back and sync old content.
These ppl always come out when there's a FF14 content drought. You can set your watch by it. This needs to change, that needs to change, the game is dying out!!!! And then a patch drops and then they stop posting things like this and go and go guzzle down all the cool new things to do. But then after they finish with that they'll go back to posting about how the game has less and less to offer and how it's all gonna end in doom and gloom. I would take this with more seriousness if that was the sentiment during the peaks and not the valleys because this surely wasn't the case at launch. And it's usually only from ppl who refuse to take a break from the game. They'd rather whine about something they play 24/7 doesn't have the same appeal it had when it was fresh and new. Ofc it won't- absolutely nothing, nothing happens like that.
I think a lot of people forget how simple the gameplay for a lot of Jobs was in ARR. Things like DRG and BRD have way more going on now than they did back in 2.X. Honestly, the Jobs feel very much similar, in my experiance, when scaled down now than they did back then, with the exception of a handful that might actually feel like they have more going on now. The Jobs aren't being simplified by new stuff being added. They were that simple to begin with. Its just they have grown that much since then. For WHM, and healers in general, the dps kit has always been pretty simple. SCH is the main difference since they had more of SMN's skill set originally. I think the only difference now with WHM now to WHM in the past is there is one less dot to maintain and cleric stance isn't a thing you have to juggle anymore (a gameplay change that most people seemed to actually approve of). Either way, on this issue, I have a fair amount of faith that Yoshi P will handle it as is needed for me to enjoy the game.
I dunno how many time in the MSQ I came out of a cut scene to find the boss half dead OR the boss dead and the room empty. Honestly, I think allowing higher traits in lower levels would be a big mistake. I know that there are not enough selfless people in the world. Keeping your toolkit unlocked for lower level stuff would result in sprouts never getting to see the dungeon. If you wanna farm a lower level dungeon, you can just run it unsynced. Otherwise, just keep out of duty roulette if you're not wanting to go down levels. That being said, I don't mind going down and losing abilities when I do lower level stuff. It can be a shock to realize, "Oh wait, I have no AOE heal here," but. Meh. Also, SMN has gotten light on buttons, so I don't know how they took anything from WHM. lol.
U absolutely agree with this. I leveled my ninja through only roulettes, and besides a normal raid here and there, I legit only got lvl 50 content or lower until I was max. On the other hand, with the temp abilities, I think that could work for a extent. If I remember correctly, machinist pretty much gets like 2 or 3 new buttons from lvl 60 or so, and all the basic buttons gets a new name and flashier animations. Might remember wrong since it was a long time ago I leveled any alt jobs.
I always wondered if they could just sync stats instead of syncing levels. keep the skills but you would do the damage of whatever level the dungeon is.
@@Colaschnittchen probably by scaling some stats down or scaling some mobs up or a mixture of both? Essentially it would be kind of what we have now but with all of our skills. I have a feeling its very possible because if you notice in any deep dungeon you get all your skills you normally get except the role skills. I agree though that its probably tedious to do that for every single skill in the game. Much faster process to just sync everyone down.
@@DiZZxDaxSHoTTa Sure but the player with lowerlv had to be balanced with player with higher levels. Imagine playing a lv 16 bard in satashe together with a lv 90 bard.
@@Colaschnittchen ah very true. a way to i guess kind of remedy that is to do what some wow private servers have done which is scale the mobs to the players individually for example the level 90 would be fighting mobs scaled to his level but the 16 would see that same mob as a level 16. Again probably a tremendous undertaking in ff since the coding is probably much different but its worked on servers i've played on. it requires alot of tuning though so I doubt they'd go that route either.
10lv for each job = 5 new skill every patch for each job (4months patch release sched) so that's an additional 40 job lvl and 20 skill for 1 full patch arc per job so the guy that made the reddit post is just saying that focus on adding more skill and job lvl instead of doing other things that's a 19 job class (20 if you add BLU mage) to the mix because 4months for every major patch release vs time needed to develop each job for their new skill and not to mention balancing it i think that guy is crazy for thinking it's possible to add 5new skill on every 4months major patch time for 19 job class
I actually had this experience last night running the lvl 89 dungeon with my friends. We were all trying to reach 90 on reaper and I managed to do so in the middle of the dungeon, unlocking communio. My friend remarked how strange it was that if you level up in the dungeon you get access to the ability you unlock at that level *in the dungeon*. But if you level sync back down you can't use that ability anymore. Personally I think the correct solution is to make sure each job has access to fundamental elements of gameplay before the first dungeon experiences. These being a single target combo, an AoE ability, a ranged ability, and perhaps? a dash. Dashes obviously are different, since some jobs don't have that mobility in the first place... What DOES feel good to me is role actions. Once they're unlocked they're usable in all instances, even those that are level synced. You can't tell me that Arm's Length or Bloodbath aren't insanely useful and don't make higher level characters way more powerful when level synced than non-synced characters. Most of the time if you're new to the game running content for the first time you *are* carried through the duty by older players. Players with better gear, players with a better understanding of the game, players who have run the content before and know the mechanics. I'm not sure that idea of changing level sync to allow for all abilities to be used is a bad one. Impossible to implement seems more likely, but it's not a bad idea imo.
That's not true. Queueing for the 89 dungeon doesn't sync you to 89, you stay 90, so you still have your 90 skill, and that's why you can level up to 90 during the dungeon and get access to it. The only way you'd be synced to 89 is if you're only 89, or if you queue it via min-ilvl (which would then keep you 89 even if you level up to 90 during it). So that's consistent.
@@LemonInYourEyes your party leader probably forgot the minimum item level option activated. It happens. Dungeons have a range of levels you can be. 89 dungeons can be played at lvl 89 or 90. I'm 100% sure about this because my friend made us farm one of those for a drop.
@@LemonInYourEyes As the guy above said, the most likely reason is the min-ilvl option was selected when you were on WAR, but not when you were on RPR. This is probably due to a change in party leader, since I doubt somebody would switch that option on/off randomly between runs. Or possibly you weren't queueing as a group of 4 when you were RPR, so min-ilvl stayed inactive even though it was selected. Then you switched to WAR and got a 4th member, causing min-ilvl to be active. Other than that, the only alternatives I can think of are that you actually ran the 87 dungeon on WAR and just forgot that it wasn't the 89 one, or that you just made a mistake and thought Primal Rend was unavailable when it wasn't. Not suggesting you'd make these mistakes, but just being thorough.
This was something I remember Mr.Happy mentioning a few times in the past where he wished he could have the whole kit but if it was dumbed down damage wise so it would be on par for that level because people are used to using it. The thing I more so worry about is for the people going through the experience for the first time don't feel like they are contributing much if at all because us and our fancy abilities to be OP and carry them through the game. But they could say do what they do with the role actions where we get all the abilities permanently but in this case they all equal the same average DPS output if not a tiny little better and let us gain traits at the levels we would get them to let the abilities do the proper damage they are supposed to do at their level. This way we get our kits and we don't just completely steamroll things with potencies that are way higher than they should be for that time. Of course there are obvious flaws with this because I am not considering every side of things, I just feel that it isn't fair to new players if they are wanting. If they were to try it this way at least they wouldn't have to rebalance old abilities each expansion because of new abilities creating new rotations. But I don't know, just an idea that I thought of and perhaps something that could be expanded upon by others or the devs themselves.
@@25xxfrostxx best to join those discords she was mentioning about. But yea, it died down quite a bit till Devs fins another means to reuse the zones again 😅
In a live letter a while back Yoshi mentioned Criterion Dungeons with variable difficulty. I wonder if that will address the concern of synced jobs. I'm imagining doing Sestasha with the equivalent of level 90 enemies and actions.
hope you and yours are doing well zepla, my thoughts and heart and prayers and love and support go out to all of you every single day, I hope you and yours are safe and sound where you are zepla, stay always in the protection and light and guidance of the crystal. Slava Ukraine
A good compromise i think is creating level brackets. Say for all EW content (including FATES) you get to keep your kit up to lvl 90 (even on a level 81 dungeon for example). For any ShB dungeon and fates content you have access up to all skills to level 80. Max 70 for any SB content, 60 for HW and 50 for ARR. At least you get to play the game with the entire kit that was actually designed for that expansion without introducing skills/ rotations that was designed for a higher level expansion. This system also works with the fact that not everyone has all the expansions. It doesnt make sense to allow EW skills into ARR content for example when you have players who only have ARR and will not be able to attain such skills (heck perhaps some of the skill files arent even present since they only have ARR).
Imo when synced they could apply a 50% potency debuff. The movement, %mitigation, and raw damage added by increased kits is a lot. I think people would love having a full kit on sastasha even with dramatically reduced potency
This thought will be counter intuitive but a part of the reason why content is repayable is the fact you don't get o use your end game skills. Old content is not balanced around the newer skills. Allowing them in that content would more than likely kill any form of challenge that they have left after the obvious power creep already occurring. While it'd be fun to run ARR or HW content with a full DRK kit, most everything would become so stupidly easy that it would get being quite quickly. That is what kills replayability.
To be clear, I think there are quite a few things that the development can do to improve the experience in older content. Basic QoL would be getting melee AoE a lot earlier and maybe giving players a keystone ability around 30. There's quite a bit of small tweaks they can do to vastly improve things.
I would say it depends. The job kits from level 70 and above feels a lot more comprehensive, which is where the ultimate raids start on. Majority of the dps class have gauge management at level 70 which increases the fun a lot. When doing synced down content at level 50 and 60, they’re extremely boring
i just wish they would stop releasing new classes and focus on the 20 classes we have now. there's so many classes that feel boring or incomplete until expansions. there is a lot of replaybility with old content, but not having core abilities feels bad. i feel like the biggest issue is that the max level is getting bigger and bigger.
I am leveling my monk right now and I'm coming up on level 80 and my usual leveling roulette is a CT alliance raid, MSQ roulette which is lvl 50 as well, leveling roulette, which is weirdly always Stone Vigil which is like lvl 40 content. If I do normal raids it's always A3 or A4 and if I get lucky I get a stormblood trial, which is the only semi level appropriate thing I do...
The reason that the systems exist right now that level sync us down and incentivise older content is so that new players have people to play with. If Bozja didn't get people to run old FATEs and old raids, then the old content might feel empty to newer players, and they would be less likely to stick around.
FFXIV keeps old content alive better than many MMOs but it has nothing on how XI was in the past. Releasing expansions without increasing the level cap kept people doing old content forever, or at least until they made the mistake of increasing the level cap and ruined it.
Tried to do DR Normal a while ago, and we got 4 people (2 in my group, 2 matched). The 2 matched people left because they wanted to queue for Savage. It's probably easily doable with 5 people but still.
A few points don't make sense to me because - For not being able to use "new shiny kit", you could just do the end-game dungeons? - Lower content IS going to have less coherence because that was how the job played at the time. The "advanced" jobs unlocked with each expansion have so little before laying on the more complex stuff so you can still go through content and learn what the job's core mechanic is. Whether managing stacks of Aetherflow for Scholar, or learning how to use Ninjutsu for Ninja. - Bozja/Zadnor and Eureka are in the end, optional content for people to do. Same with relic weapons which while they give a nice item level weapon, aren't needed when the tome weapon or Savage weapon will be just as good or better. But mainly, yes old content gets shelved as new stuff comes out. That's pretty standard for ANY game. Someone in the comments already mentioned it, but having all the current abilities in older content will become a chore as SE would need to CONTINUOUSLY manage and adjust things as each expansion suddenly becomes a past one. Even sync'd in item and level, stuff gets burned quite fast. Imagine having say Stardiver or RDM's combo at Sastasha. Deleted to all hell.
I just want them to add a cutscene timer in the party frame so I can know roughly when the new person’s cutscene will end. Sometimes that cutscene feels like it’s going on for an eternity.
I was honestly hoping that in 7.0 the new story expansion would be accessible right after completing the ultima weapon quest in ARR as an alternate story path. Not only would this make it much easier for new players to catch up to the new content, but would also keep the max level at 90 and not further distancing the ability gap with later expansions. But there would still be the issue of running brand new content capped at level 60, which would feel so gross.
Back then we don’t have the “role skill” category, we have what was called “cross job skills” system. This is based on the basis that all advance job back then such as white mage, scholar, paladin, bard….” require more than just their base job. For example, to be scholar, i has to be level 30 Arcanist, level 15 conjuror. What this mean is, aside from my arcanist, I also have access to limited range of conjuror skill, as well as thaumaturge as it’s the “tertiary” job mix for scholar. One example of skill I get from conjuror as scholar is Acolyte Stance, I think it was a 10-15 sec Cooldown stance button that increase heal by 20%. It was a must get for scholar back then for us to match white mage heal muscle back then because we were way more relying on faerie back then as compared to them being just a minor support now, which explains why we have 2 version of them still in the game. If my memories serve me right we also level thaumaturge to get Thunder and a mana barrier skill for progression. We get to choose at max level (50) about 6 or 8 skills, where the slot gradually increase as we level up ( I think it was 2 in beginning, 3 at 20, 4 at 25, then just gradually increase by one slot every 5 lvl starting at 35). It was a fun system but I can see the difficulties and frustration in designing job and balance them with such system due to the customisation.
Just got 2 resistance weapons in Bozja/Zadnor and it was a chore getting a party at times for D R. A lot of times I was queued in with just one other person. Really depends on the time of day. Weekends seemed better than weekday evenings
This issue is most clear in Summoner, I think. Here's the gist. Press Button A to summon pet, then press Button B in combat to start your timer, when the timer is finished, you get resource C, you can then press Button D, to activate the thing, and then you can finally use Button E to do the rest of your damage kit. This is at like level 10. I had absolutely no idea where it was going at this point. I really don't want to just have all abilities at level sync. WoW did that for dungeons in BfA, and it's part of why I made so many alts. I enjoy the leveling process of starting out with a few skills, and getting more over time. so I'd go back just to have the low level kit again. Final Fantasy has finally cured my Altoholism by indulging that feeling at all times. Plus it gives a feeling of everyone's kit growing around you while you're progressing. Like for example, you start to see Summoners using Bahamut at level 70 raids. If you get your current kit at any level, no one knows what to expect. Everyone might think that the Red Mage is able to res people in Level 50 and 60 content, but they aren't, and that could cause friction. The first time someone gets kicked for not being high enough level to have some specific utility in a piece of content meant for a lower level, that system fails. it might not happen often, but even a simple "Red mage, Res me! oh, you're too low level? ok" could lower a player's experience, if only that it makes them feel like they need to be max level in order to do anything. WoW kind of circumvented this by having all dungeon syncing content be braindead easy. you can't level sync raids or Mythic+, so no one's going to be toxic like that.
Monk is a great example of a job that DOES have a more complete kit at lower levels thanks to the Endwalker changes. This is not a fluke either, as the stated intent of those changes was to flesh out how the job plays closer to the ground. This gives me hope for the future that SE will do this for more jobs!
Yeah thats awesome. I feel like leveling in low dungeons with monk isnt as boring as with paladins lul
Ohhh i never played monk during sb to shb. Thats why i was confused during ew leveling why monk has so many button to press on earlier level lol
Monk had a completed kit, until it was reworked in SHB patch to an incomplete kit. It was turned to a complete kit in EW which many feel is far more boring than its previous iteration (pre-SHB rework). So I feel the opposite of you and have less hope for the future, cause SE is doing this for more jobs.
@@idowhatiwant3557 I am sorry but that's not true the vast majority thinks that monk is the best it's ever been and you can clearly see that just looking at the numbers
Yeah, but unfortunately it has problems on the other end of the spectrum. Leveling Monk from 70 to 90 is kind of a pain since you get almost nothing new to your kit. Just a few animation changes and damage buffs.
The problem with letting max lvl players keep their entire kit for syncing down in regular content is that it creates a space where sprouts become a hindrance. Why have a lvl 15 smn in Satasha when you can have a synced down smn who can do their lvl 90 rotation.
Yeah, that's the main objection I have with this post. Syncing down content like in GW2 is quite easy in comparison, since there's only 10 skills to use at any time, and half of them are bound to your weapon(s) but in FFxiv, things are quite different, there's a lot more skills in the hotbars. New players would definitely feel lacking something compared to players with more leveled up jobs.
They could just give you most of your kit way earlier on at lower potencies. At higher levels you’d gain traits that raise their potencies. Alternatively we could get less effective versions of abilities. For instance, a low level version of enshroud that just speeds up your GCD and gives three uses of gibbet/gallows at (relative to 90) lower potencies
That problem already exists in another form. For dungeons w/o iLevel sync, just level sync the "adjusted" power of gear is insane. Take your example, Sastasha. A lvl 90 in endwalker stat-bloat gear, level synced, has almost twice the total stats as the actual level player because the gear bonuses are so much better in later patch gear. Even w/o lvl 90 gear a lot of players can almost one shot mobs in the dungeon because they are so much more powerful, synced. For comparison go into an iLevel sync dungeon and the dynamic changes and the dungeon is much harder. Almost no one wants to do iLevel syncing dungeons for that reason.
That's an extreme example. I think it would still be good if abilities could be used in content 10 levels lower so more content allows for higher level rotations.
Because it's Satasha and I can practically solo it. No one cares bout that 5%~ dps the level 90 will have in a low level dungeon.
One of WoW's biggest failings is abandoning old content. One of the best things about ff14 is that everything remains relevant and worth doing.
What do you mean? alot of peoples run old content in wow for transmog, mounts and achivements... I'd rather run around and one shot everything in old wow raids than doing a 1 buttom rotation with no aoe and wiping in ffxiv downscaled content. It is dogshit gamedesign and they should look how guildwars 2 is doing it.
@@styxzero1675 you know you can unsync content right?
@@styxzero1675 There is no way you've gotten to lvl 50 in FF if you think the rotation is one button. I'm glad you think FF is dogshit so I won't wind up in a group with you.
@@styxzero1675 Bait
Dont know why people get triggered, he worded it badly but its still true. GW2 has better sandbox design than ff14 even if ff14 is better than WoW.
Keep in mind hes talking about downscaled content, and it is absolutely brutal to have a fleshed out rotation and sync down back to the basic 123 combo.
As a wow convert, I don't mind. I'm playing at my own pace. The only thing that I liked different about WoW to FFXIV is that once you learned an ability, you have it all of the time instead of it being locked behind levels. Sometimes it's a bit annoying once you get up to higher levels and you have to change key-binds around for the lower level abilities. Other than that I'm having a great time playing most of the jobs
That depends. If you level sync downward to quest with a friend in WoW, you lose all of the abilities above the sync line. If WoW ever implemented a Final Fantasy-style leveling roulette and opened all dungeons up, they'd probably implement a similar system.
Conversely, I think that FF would benefit HUGELY from having the standard leveling roulette for people working towards max level, then having a different roulette that let people at max level do EVERY dungeon with all of their kit, regardless of their MSQ progression. It really sucks outleveling an expansion and never being able to use any of your abilities in it or any of the dungeons. As someone who made an alt on Brynhildr to play with friends just coming over to FF from WoW, I dinged 90 on my first job and am still working through Stormblood with my friends.
But I don't think there's a reasonable solution where you could throw a full, max-level player into a leveling dungeon with, say, a level 32 player and expect it to go well or feel fair at all.
Fair enough but this reddit post & overall discussion is aimed more at experienced players with many many hours in the game. At 100 hours I didn't care about (or notice) level synced content being not fun, but at 1000 hours it is a more obvious problem to me.
@@Maria_Erias I think they're saying that, in WoW, when you gain an ability, there's no major change to your button layout because that ability is (relatively) static in your rotation. In 14, you definitely have to switch around or compensate for lower-lvl builds because some abilities either change drastically in use or become obsolete so you hide them away for stronger versions or compensating abilities (like Cure vs Cure2 for WHM)
I know there are niche uses for the older spells like saving mana, but a lot of strats have it as niche for a reason and it's crazy min-maxing that even top-end raiders don't use. The issue is having to readjust for these abilities if you opt in for lower-lvl Roulettes. It's a bit cumbersome and part of the reason 'why' some folks opt out of anything lower-lvl, making it harder to run early content
Also pretty sure why the Trust System was vastly updated to basically make early game almost single player. They already had the mercenary system that you had to lvl up to run dungeons with you, but the new Trust makes that obsolete outside of the rewards you get with the mercs (better AI, story relevant)
...Which I guess that even makes them changing the older rotation moot since nobody really has to do older content unless lvling a new Job, so ehh~ lol
So for Blue Mage, once you learn a spell, you always have it regardless of level sync.
@@Maria_Erias Funnily enough WoW did kinda do that with the threads of time leveling. if you've reached max lvl on one character you can level through various expacs of content and monsters will be scaled to your current level, not just in instances but open world too. Its not a perfect system: when one dungeon from the 4 expac was open for fresh lvl 10s to enter it had a mechanic on the final boss that needed to be dispelled immediately but most healers didn't get a dispel until 15+ so for like a week before they fixed it that boss was insanely hard if your healer was too low. the solution was just to detooth the effect and reduce its damage a ton. not the most elegant solution but the mechanic's original difficulty was still kept in the heroic/timewalking versions.
because of whatever scaling magic they use, the difference between low and high level player damage is negligible if it doesn't favor the lower level player (not that FF players would ever use logs or anything >.>) and the healing relative to max healths are also comparable to equal level healing.
There's definitely something to be said about having your abilities unlocked regardless of level, but a bunch of problems come with it
Syncing output to the content, new player experience, willingness to play with people that don't have their full kits and vice versa, etc.
Personally I'd love to be able to use a synced version of all my 90 jobs regardless of the content I'm in but if the trade-off is fucking over sprouts then no thanks
It's the same situation that BLU has, why would you ever want to sync with someone that only has water cannon versus someone that can practically solo the entire raid with enough setup and time?
Though similar, and maybe appropriate?, I have seen the amount of toxicity toward people that were in Crystal Tower and other such raids without equipping their soul stone. Severely diminished kit and people are (rightfully?) upset to have to carry them. I am not sure if it would be similar or worse for level differences, but I imagine some would be frustrated by it.
I think splitting the difference comes down to making sure that classes have their "iconic" kit before entering group content. DNC, for instance, doesn't get Closed Position or any party buffs below 60, when its class fantasy is pretty much built around that. It feels awful in synched content because of this. Some people have countered that DNC has the best AOE in low levels. So what? That's not the class identity. I'll gladly trade early AOE for being able to do the key feature of my class no matter what content I'm in.
SGE is a good example of doing it right; you always have Kardia and you get Eukrasia very early, and thus get your shields and DOT early. No matter what you synch into, you're very clearly doing SGE things. Yeah you don't always have Toxicon or Pneuma or (Pan) Haima, but those are all iterations on what you already do.
@@warmachine5835 that’s the single major thing that’s bothered me about syncing back down
After a point you’re not even playing your job anymore, you’re playing your class again with a mask over it
What kind of WAR am I playing without my beast gauge, even if I have berserk at level 6?
What kind of DRG am I playing without my jumps?
I know there’s only so much you can do sometimes but at the very least I’d like more “signature abilities” to be pulled down if you have your job stone on
@@NelielSugiura In my opinion, players not having or equipping a soul stone is outright ignorance and even malicious. And it's not entirely on them since FF14 is not upfront or obvious about job quests, nor does it gate content from those who do not have a soul stone equipped. When people see someone in dungeon or raid and they see that someone don't have a soul stone, there's a pretty decent chance their first impression would be, "Wow, do they really not have their soul stone?" vs "Is this a new player?" because there aren't turn by turn directions on how to progress your job at early levels or any meaningful way of teaching players how to play their role effectively. Literally looking at every single healer 60+ who can't find their DPS buttons for 45 minutes.
As for pulling skills down when synced, the more reasonable implementation would be to have tiers based on levels and sync the iL further down the greater the tier difference to offset the massive gains in DPS you would get by having full access to your kit.
This really isn't much of an issue. It's just math, you just make sure that the dps output is comparable regardless of skill set, that could be done mathematically, I really doubt this is even particularly difficult. It doesn't even need to be perfect because the current system isn't perfect either, synced down content does not play like the original. Even those leveling don't have the original skillset you would have had at the time, it's fundamentally somewhat broken content. As for "fucking over sprouts", from another persons perspective it's just cosmetic, and guess what, we already have that. You can already queue in with someone rocking glamour or endgame equipment, which is sometimes/often even msq relevant.
Syncing as it is right now is about as good as its going to get. It needs tweaks on a per-job basis to find a good balance (see EW monk changes for ex), but suggestions like keeping all abilities just with potency nerfs would absolutely ruin what the game does so well in that it presents a baseline challenge in older content that every player can find semi-consistent footing on.
This feels like the sentiment of someone who has played the game for thousands of hours and is bored of getting synced down and is ultimately disconnected from the new player experience and isnt really giving it the consideration it very much deserves in this discussion.
I definitely agree though that the sheer quantity of content in the game ensures inevitably certain parts of it become irrelevant and very hard to attempt without PF/Discord. Personally, I dont necessarily think thats a problem the developers need to solve, so much as an unfortunate consequence of a growing and evolving MMO, but I can respect the desire to keep everything relevant when the game has done it so well for so many parts of the game.
"that it presents a baseline challenge in older content that every player can find semi-consistent footing on" there is a challenge in older content that isn't extreme/savage/ultimate?
sorry, but you're just wrong there, there is 0 difficulity in dungeons, even if you're wall 2 wall pull it's braindead easy, even newer dungeons are way too easy to the point where an healer is literally optional (see people do the new dungeons with just a tank and 3 DPS and they clear much easier than an tank/healer/2dps would do)
"This feels like the sentiment of someone who has played the game for thousands of hours and is bored of getting synced down and is ultimately disconnected from the new player experience and isnt really giving it the consideration it very much deserves in this discussion."
also false, granted this might come from an player with thousands of hours (hell that'll be me aswel)
the problem is that newer players WON'T care if that other dragoon does other actions, because why would they, most won't care.
it's what mishappenchair said in 1 of his videos when 6.1 dropped and Kaiten was indeed removed, who is this change for, the super casuals can clear any content that is required for story progression without ever using Kaiten, this falls into the same category, this will benefit the players who have reached endgame and aren't punished for being at endgame, while the newer players won't care, maybe they'll even go "wait, i get THAT later on?"
"I definitely agree though that the sheer quantity of content in the game ensures inevitably certain parts of it become irrelevant and very hard to attempt without PF/Discord. Personally, I dont necessarily think thats a problem the developers need to solve, so much as an unfortunate consequence of a growing and evolving MMO, but I can respect the desire to keep everything relevant when the game has done it so well for so many parts of the game."
mostly false aswel, old content (atleast dungeons/trials) will always be relevant in some way or form.
simply because people will do duty roulette leveling or MSQ, trials or normal raids (although i wish normal raids EXP drop was higher, since it drops literally like 1/4th of an trial roulette while being the same length)
this basically ensures that newer players still find players for older dungeons, but the problem then becomes that an lvl 90 red mage gets synced down to lvl 17 for satasha or copperbell mines without 85% of their abilities to go with, making every job an shell of their former self.
the only content that fades into irrelevancy is old extreme trials, you rarely see heavensward or ARR extremes being run in PF, you see shadowbringers still, but even then a select few, rarely do i see emerald weapon EX.
they simply should give us all our abilties, maybe remove the potency increase from traits.
but the potency system alone should be able to handle the stat sync. (also when Zepla said "yoshi will likely say it's impossible due to budget" or whatever, they already got the sync system in place, they could just add the flag of "don't sync abilities" and it should be fine. (granted it might take their intern a day to figure out)
@@DarkDyllon "there is a challenge in older content that isn't extreme/savage/ultimate?"
I've seen enough sprouts wipe on "easy" content all the time to know that just because its easy for you or me, doesnt mean it is for everyone.
"also false, granted this might come from an player with thousands of hours (hell that'll be me aswel)
the problem is that newer players WON'T care if that other dragoon does other actions, because why would they, most won't care.
it's what mishappenchair said in 1 of his videos when 6.1 dropped and Kaiten was indeed removed, who is this change for, the super casuals can clear any content that is required for story progression without ever using Kaiten"
Well, Kaiten was pretty obviously removed to mitigate ability bloat. I've noticed time and again they seem to seriously want to avoid giving jobs more than 3 full hotbars worth of abilities to use, understandably. As for just giving everyone all abilites, I'm very confused at how people don't understand that having a full lvl 90 toolset in Sastasha for ex. will trivialize the dungeon to such an extent that the sprout doing it for the first time wont even really get to experience it at all. I understand having the mindset of "w/e gets this over with fastest" but a lot of sprouts do not have that mindset, and forcing them into it to appease endgame players is the exact kind of mistake many other MMOs constantly make.
"i wish normal raids EXP drop was higher, since it drops literally like 1/4th of an trial roulette while being the same length"
Could not agree more, esp. since a lot of the raids are harder/longer than trials sometimes
"they simply should give us all our abilties, maybe remove the potency increase from traits.
but the potency system alone should be able to handle the stat sync. (also when Zepla said "yoshi will likely say it's impossible due to budget" or whatever, they already got the sync system in place, they could just add the flag of "don't sync abilities" and it should be fine. (granted it might take their intern a day to figure out)"
I feel like you're just kind of ignoring the inherent complexity of these systems and how they would have to be balanced. How do we balance the level 90 and level 58 to have an equal dps output when both have all the abilities theyve unlocked to that point? do we go in and manually configure potency tweaks at every major ability unlock level? thats a tremendous amount of work for a team that needs months to make basic PVP job tweaks (thats not a jab SE btw, its a genuine acknowledgment of the trickiness of game balance)
If the stance is just "why care, just let us carry the sprouts through it all" I'm going to tell you now that Yoshi and the devs have made it abundantly clear they're moving away from catering to that stance, not towards it. We literally got the praetorium/westwind rework to stop that kind of experience, and for good reason. Praetorium was one of my worst dungeon experiences as a sprout, not because of long cutscenes, but because I didn't even get to actually play the dungeon. It felt like 2 or 3 ppl could do everything and the rest of us were just bonus dps. The changes you're asking for would see that experience extend to all duty roulette content, which would be a tremendously bad outcome for anyone who is playing the content for the first time.
@@Scorch052 Well, Kaiten was pretty obviously removed to mitigate ability bloat. I've noticed time and again they seem to seriously want to avoid giving jobs more than 3 full hotbars worth of abilities to use, understandably. As for just giving everyone all abilites, I'm very confused at how people don't understand that having a full lvl 90 toolset in Sastasha for ex. will trivialize the dungeon to such an extent that the sprout doing it for the first time wont even really get to experience it at all. I understand having the mindset of "w/e gets this over with fastest" but a lot of sprouts do not have that mindset, and forcing them into it to appease endgame players is the exact kind of mistake many other MMOs constantly make.
let's start with Kaiten was removed because of ability bloat, what are you on about, you got shoha 1 and 2 (ST and AOE) or ikishoten into ogi namikiri?
the fact that the majority of the SAM community is in an active oproar about it is telling that Kaiten was essential to the job (also the fact that SAM's APM became 1 less than Shadowbringers)
the dungeons are literally just do and forget, also there's trusts now, so absolutely no reason to not give us all the abilities concidering that if you want an "true dungeon experience" go do trusts.
the mistake that FF14 is actively making lately is appeasing to the casual audience while fucking over the endgame audience, while the endgame audience is more likely to stay than the casual audience past MSQ.
Could not agree more, esp. since a lot of the raids are harder/longer than trials sometimes
except if you get Titania, oh boy do i dread that duty in DF.
thats a tremendous amount of work for a team that needs months to make basic PVP job tweaks (thats not a jab SE btw, its a genuine acknowledgment of the trickiness of game balance)
i kinda feel this is overblown, the PVP team (which is seperate from the PvE team) are working on their own, but they were pretty quick and are actively rebalancing things based on numbers like "howmany wins vs howmany games did an certain job play" (from Yoshi himself)
this is kinda the thing that also worries me since Kaiten was removed more because of the 50% straight up damage buff it basically gave, meanwhile literally ignoring it's importance on the job, now SAM has become an mindless Shinten spam.
i've always said that they NEED an PTS for job balancing, since that'll give the more dedicated players time to test the numbers, which are 100x better at knowing their jobs damage and optimal rotation than the balancing team.
We literally got the praetorium/westwind rework to stop that kind of experience, and for good reason. Praetorium was one of my worst dungeon experiences as a sprout, not because of long cutscenes, but because I didn't even get to actually play the dungeon. It felt like 2 or 3 ppl could do everything and the rest of us were just bonus dps. The changes you're asking for would see that experience extend to all duty roulette content, which would be a tremendously bad outcome for anyone who is playing the content for the first time.
ah yes, i remember my 1st time going through that, i just watched the cutscenes and was done with it, then redid for the dungeon experience, not ideal but didn't hinder me that much, guess it can be for some that want to have an genuine experience, but it was still an cancer to the community since it would then lead to people go AFK and come back 10 minutes later because the cutscenes just kept going, or people would straight up quit marinium because it gave less EXP than praetorium.
overal they have to start thinking more about the endgame community, the sprouts are being cared about, while the people who end up staying are being completely neglected. (yes i know, endgame dungeons are still coming, which are so braindead easy that again, healers are 100% optional, trials sure, but they aren't difficult either, same for normal raids which only come once every 2 major patches and 2 ultimates across the entire 2+ years)
@@DarkDyllon See, it feels to me more like a lot of the endgame community just wants FFXIV to be a game that its never really tried to be from what I can tell. It seems like for the people who want to sweat, they've always given them a little something to grind, but they've never been the focus of most of the content being developed. I think that's pretty understandable, personally.
I'd think it would be very hard to logically justify investing the lion's share of your manpower developing high-end content that probably < 10% of your playerbase is actually going to even attempt, much less complete. Especially when you take into account the fact that very difficult content is typically more complex and thus more difficult to develop, or at least more time-consuming.
its ironic you say we are disconnected from a new players experience , yet you assume they care if we have more abilities. seem you are the one not understanding them
While I'm pretty happy with the game as a whole, I do feel that your level 50 kit should feel complete, and right now it doesn't at all. Red Mages have no finishers at level 50. White Mages have no Lillies at level 50. Black Mages don't get Enochian or Polyglots at level 50. The Paladin rotation doesn't even feel complete until level 80. Monks don't have Beast Chakra at level 50. I can go on and on for every job. The point is that most jobs' core identities are completely missing at level 50.
Not even just that, but some abilities just suddenly work completely differently, and it's extremely hard to remember at what level that happens. For example as blm you go from umbral ice into astral fire using fire 2 or 3, which instantly grants you AF3. But not at low levels, no. Then you have to remember to press that transpose so you don't loose your AF or UI when switching.
I'd rather just have all my abilities unlocked functioning as they do at my current character level even if that means nerfing my raw damage output.
DRG is miserable up until life of a dragon
it would be nice for them to do a complete overhaul of how the kits get built up as you level, for every job.
@@shakeweller funny u say that drg is one of the more fun classes at 50. look at samurai. literally 0 ogcd at 50 besides role actions lmao
I wonder how much when you started playing affects how much this effects you. As someone who started in ARR and played through each expac, playing at each level cap feels fine, for the most part, certain reworked jobs and newer jobs notwithstanding. Looking at you Red Mage, Reaper, and Dancer...
In think to many people don’t take into account all the work that was done for crafters when talking about the differences in content for SHB vs SB. The only part that was a definite net loss was the postponement of the second ultimate.
Endwalker will also have completely new forms of content in the island sanctuary and criterion dungeons, and its also bringing back deep dungeon.
So well i do agree that FFXIV could do more to change up the formula i do think it’s a little disingenuous to say “it’s always the same and all we get is less”
There's also the quantity vs. quality debate. I'm hugely in favor of quality over quantity, and would rather have a total of 8-10 dungeons, 4-5 trials, and a few raids over the course of an expansion if those instances were all fun, interesting, and enjoyable, rather than to have 20+ dungeons, a dozen trials, and a dozen raids that were all 'meh' and forgettable.
But in this regard the quality of shadowbringers content in my opinion was lower quality than stormblood which had more per patch(not the story but the actual content), the weapon storyline was probably the best trial story line but the weapon fights were meh (if we don't include gimmick EXtremes i think Ruby weapon is by far the worst EX to date).
The dungeons were incredibly forgettable, and i honestly think the nier raids may look the best but they are the biggest chore ever when you get them... especially paradigms breach which feels like a new MSQ roulette in length, the edens storyline and raids were decent but had some TERRIBLE fights, (heres looking at you E10... (barring the second tier which is possibly the worst tier of Savages i've ever done),
But i feel like the quality vs quantity argument is lost when they decided to go to 1 forgettable dungeon a patch in shdaowbringers which then limits DR expert which already felt limited because of 1 of the expert dungeons always being story so always appeared more.
yes ARR had a lot of content and a lot of it was meh, but theres such a thing as variety and at some point variety trumps quality as no one wants to do the exact same thing every day... Could you imagine if beast tribes were the exact same 3 quests a day most would give up on them and thats how i feel with DR expert now... so i would rather have 2 forgettable dungeons than 1... because Endwalkers been more of the same, the biggest saving grace is classes are not are close together as they were in shadow bringers...
It has been an observable trend since a realm reborn that it’s a game that you can sink your teeth into but won’t eff you up if you decide to take a break the only time this is ever brought up is when content creators are starving for content.I’m not saying ff xiv doesn’t have problems.It’s just that they are overinflated by content creators when,in the grand scheme of things,the problems are good problems to have cause they don’t rot the core of the game and why people keep coming back.
@@manumase i disagree that All Shadowbringers dungeons where forgettable in comparison to stormblood. Shadowbringers has some awesome dungeons .
I will agree that eden is definitely not as good as Omega, but it still had some good bosses.
I agree that Ruby weapon was awful but it also had some awesome EXs like seat of sacrifice.
I can agree that overall the quality of the content of SHB was a bit less than SB (aside from the story which is god tier) but i don’t see that as a sign the quality of content will continue to go down hill.
The first 24 man of EW is amazing and is way better than Rabanastre is, and DSR is an damn awesome encounter from a story telling perspective and a progression perspective (it does fall a bit in terms of reclear enjoyability however)
We also have criterion dungeons coming (which could be awesome or maybe not we don’t know much about them yet)
@@shirox11 We also have to remember that Shadowbringers and Endwalker are also taking steps to revitalize the older MSQ stuff to make them faster, soloable, and higher quality. That's take resources but it will, in the end, also make for a better experience for new players who will then stick around to lay longer. I believe Yoshi-P already said in an interview that they are already seeing more people willing to play after these changes.
I think 2.0 and 2.1 still needs some tweaks and they really need to get the new voice actors to voice act new scenes and redub old ones.
I can understand the want to keep your abilities. But for leveling up keep in mind it’s for new players to understand combat. A horror scenario is that people only know how to spam aoe and don’t take one step into learning the entire rest of their job. Leveling up is for new players, not for veterans. To that end, keeping your abilities and being in a group of people without those abilities just means you are doing all the work while they do nothing but run and catch up.
Usually I’m in agreement with Zeplas points but this feels very short sided for the veteran player and punishing for the new.
This game does favor new players over veterans too much imo. Retaining players is just as important as bringing them in.
It’s just a content creator problem.The lvl’ing system is fine as is at the moment.I mean yeah not using 90 ninja at lvl 15 satasha kinda sucks,but for a new player it would be too much.Just seems like it’s a tik tok zoomer attention span problem.
I felt the opposite in that they are trying to make a point that it's hurting everyone, especially veterans.
I'm thinking specifically about where they said there's not a lot of point in leveling up your kit if you can't use it for the vast majority of the content.
I do want to do old content to help new players but I don't want to relive being a new player myself just to do that.
@@SarcasticData - I sometimes learned how to do things for a class/job because people "had to play like a new player" (when I first start(ed) a class/job)... I do understand the frustration of it, though.
I personally don't mind being restricted to only a few abilities... because it also helps me keep the basics of the class/job down (especially when I'm still learning how it works), while then developing/improving on some of the more advanced skills and/or combos, etc. (if that makes sense? XD).
agreed, it just creates new problems. Besides, old content is still run on a regular basis.
There's one thing this redditor is not taking into account and it's the fact that most skill upgrades in the newer 10 levels are usually either potency+VFX increase, extra resource added and then probably one or two extra abilities at most. Rotations have, for the most part, remained stagnant, and they've been only extended with flip skills (the skills that transform into other skills on certain parts of the rotation) or trait upgrades.
I believe they will most likely keep this process of condensing older buttons to leave way to newer ones while they keep trying to push more "downgraded" versions of the buttons for older levels.
Hey Zepla! Regarding what you said about having max level abilities in low level content: you would be correct that Yoshida would more than likely say no. Why? Because the dungeon is not built for max level abilities to just come in and deal with the content. Dungeons are synced down to a specific level to preserve that dungeon's experience in that expansion or level. Sure, it feels jarring when you're leveling and have to rethink rotations half the time, but it's also a balance they have to keep.
Let's say I took BRD into Totorak with all its abilities up to Lv 90. The trash would be deleted by AoE like Rain of Death, not to mention Quick Nock is upgraded for more potency and can combo into a stronger AoE on proc. Then you've got your songs, which boost party damage while also having oGCD damage buttons to destroy mobs. Even synced down, the damage output would be more than enough for a single Lv 90 to take down the entire dungeon with a Tank. Tanks would outright solo the dungeon all by themselves if we're throwing WAR into the equation.
It'd also be a bit jarring for new people to see one Lv 90 character mow down a whole group of mobs by themselves in no time flat - and make them wonder if they're missing out on something or if they're underpowered for the dungeon.
Guild wars 2 let you keep your unlocked skills on low level content, reducing your overall power. You still kill things faster the low level characters, but at least that contributes to the feeling of becoming stronger
i`m a developer and although i obviously can`t say anything about 14 devs, i can give a plausible reason to not do that: maintenance. Even if they perfectly adjusted all the skills to do the correct amount of damage at all possible level syncs, the next time a new skill would get released, they would need to redo every single dungeon rebalance again, and again and again... that is hell and time consuming for devs
@@ryenard This - they would have to retune every class for every single raid level. Plus, the argument people are making is poor - they can't practice their rotation because they don't have all their abilities when playing at 50? Because their main complaint is Crystal Tower it seems. The problem is that the bosses and mobs in this raid series sometimes die before I can get a lot of hits in so they would just die faster I think with lvl sync like WoW has. If they die faster? They still aren't going to be able to practice their rotation for end game.
@@IcyIann It really doesn't make you feel stronger just more competent than beginner. All this does is make new players who are just starting the content feel like they cant contribute at all and go away from the game.
@@gundown26 well, in GW2 i never felt like this. And if a lv 10 player gets sad that a max level character is stronger than him, i think he may well stop playing rpgs then.
I don't like the idea of joining low level dungeons and having multitudes more spells than the others either, gonna make lower level players feel useless and like they don't carry their weight and just getting carried. I think the core of the current system is fine, they just need to take a good, long look at job toolkits at each level bracket and adjust as needed. For example, there is no reason why all jobs shouldn't have an AOE ability at level 15.
Just unlocking abilities is a bandaid approach. They need to fix the toolkits for lower levels.
Plus on certain jobs it makes me feel nostalgic, sometimes even makes me switch playstyle (like blm), or bring up aforementioned nostalgia and allow me to use stuff I'm no longer able to use (mch turret for example, or rage of halone on PLD which I think is a lot more cooler than royal authority). Getting synced down can add an element of fun of its own.
i do understand that point, but on the flip side, it does make learning a class like BLM a royal pain because of how different they play at low levels compared to high level.
Edit; to be clear i see it both ways. i do find meself being on the fence.
or it could show people what they have coming, also they could just have a server side thing that doesn't show the new players the animations
came from SWTOR, and Sync down doesnt exist over there, a Sync Up does, but it's kind of bad. doesnt give low levels top tier abilitys, but simply buff ups their stats so that they dont get one shot, it lead to situations where underleveled tanks did feel like a liability due to not having enough synced stats. I like the idea of having HW abilitys be present in HW dungeons specifically, it feels like a boat load of new content, even it is reused mechanics & content. The issue with reverts during syncs, is that it wouldnt solve the issue with expac classes like Reaper needing changes in content like ARR & HW
If plenty of people already dislike the sync down now, it only gets worse. The poster mentioned that there's a cap on the total num of abilities per job, but every expansion abilities are added. You might have nostalgia for low level content and being synced, but for people like you, there's others like me. I'm new to the game, but I haven't done any roulettes in forever bc being synced down to level 33 to press 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2 is probably the last thing I'd want to do with my time off work.
In reality, they should just give players the option to keep abilities on sync. There's already some degree of visual progression of characters that could create the same affect on new players anyways, and one could argue that it might actually have a positive impact for low level players to see the potential for how badass and cool high level jobs become. I almost quit in ARR when I started bc the jobs felt so boring, the only reason I continued playing was because I watched videos and knew that they got a lot more interesting.
I'm not overly concerned. They've come such a long way, iteratively, that it's nothing like it was in 2.0. They've improved many many systems along the way but we tend to forget. Everyone wants immediate change, but it doesn't work that way. I don't know how many times over the past 10 years I had an idea of how the devs should fix an annoying system, only to see it solved in a much better and more unique way a couple years later. I also don't know how many times they fixed something that we didn't know needed to be fixed at all and it resulted in an improvement.
Lulls are wonderful. Its perfect for those of that have long-term in-game goals that usually get put to the side with major content patches like savage and ultimate
True. I'm actually getting all my crafters to 90 finally. Wouldnt have had the focus if there was new content every other week.
Its also perfect for people that do things besides just playing this game!
I think SE has some lulls in end-game because as a major creator of other games? They realize it's healthy for not just FFXIV, but also the gaming community and economy as a whole.
For spreading abilities across more levels and making lower levels more fun I think they can make more skills have upgrades. Assassinate on Ninja becomes Dream Within a Dream at higher levels. The skills are a little different, but they still get used in the same way and sit on the same spot on your hot bar and automatically change based on your level. Why not have a 3rd tier skill replace Dream at a higher level? Gun Breaker has a combo at low levels that gets a continuation button that augments each part of the combo at mid levels, and then at 90 the continuation still does that, but now also augments a whole different skill. No extra buttons added to the hot bar at 90 but there is a new attack to weave in from that "continuation" button. One button essentially providing first 3 and later 4 additional skills to weave in. So why not 5? Or another button that adds different augments to other things. In PvP Ninja's mudra button changes a bunch of skills into entirely different skills - something like this might be able to be used as well - for example at higher levels maybe Dancer's steps while they're dancing could be given damage effects or Dragoon could get a high leap that changes some of their attacks into a different set of attacks to choose from to do as they land. And of course there are numerous examples of skills that simply become stronger versions of themselves as you level up. I think the FF team still has a number of options for how to provide skills across large level ranges without the number of buttons getting out of control.
My idea for syncing and keeping skills has been to have some points in the leveling process that act as savespots. like, you go into a lower level dungeon you keep all your skills to 50, between 50-70 you get all your skills till 70 and past that you get everything. Makes all jobs feel a little more complete without needing to balance level 90 skills in low level dungeons.
This also helps mitigate the "I rather we had a lvl 90 sync down SAM than this lvl 45 DRG with not even one AoE". Paired with reworking jobs so more new skills overwrite older ones so that in each "step" they all feel more complete, would be perfect.
I have a suggestion to change the Glam System to be more like a collection where you can have 1 of every item rather than a dresser with limited space. It would actually give people an incentive to play older content to complete their collection while also giving everyone more options for glams. Other games do this, I don't see why we need to limit dresser space for 400 (apparently soon to be 800).
This is just one of many solutions that can be implemented, and obviously wont solve everything on its own.
That's how it works in guild wars 2 and it's glorious (along with multiple dye channels on most armour pieces)
I always thought it was limited because of spaghetti code.
A great suggestion that's been brought up numerous times but they are unlikely to devote much dev time to it due to the huge undertaking it would be.
@@pertown the spaghetti code in 1.0 was really really bad and they still have some it if they have to deal with, not to mention limitations on ps3/ps4 hardware. for example summoning a retainer literally loads that retainer including its entire inventory for EVERY PERSON in the zone but flagged as invisible to everyone but you
@@21warmasters Oh that sounds painful
@@21warmasters the only way to fix the spaghetti code is to get rid of it. but ofc they wont do that because of legacy players. the devs dont want to forget 1.0 players that had been helping them
I really felt what they said about getting synced down and not being able to use your cool skills. I used roulettes to get every job to 80 in shadowbringers. Now I just can't bring myself to do roulettes (except expert) at all unless a friend is running them. I just do fates or 81+ dungeons to level because I hate getting synced down so much
In the lead up for HW I was thinking that they'd lean hard into the Trait system. Get the abilities early so that you have something to press and do, but add complexity, potency, and better animations as you level via Traits. Every expansion I keep thinking that they'll finally do it, but the ability gap just gets wider and wider. They've moved a few abilities to be lower level, like that DRK AoE, but I'd love to see them really tackle the issue in 7.0
After seeing new summoner and playing it most of this expansion, this is really what they should be doing. All classes some have some low level abilities that come at the same levels with different potencies that are upgraded over time. It makes the job feel a lot better while leveling and syncing doesn't feel as bad because most buttons are still usable in some form.
Yeah it kinda feels like traits still have some untapped potential... Sometimes they feel outright wasted. One that comes to mind is the Darkside Mastery trait on DRK which upgrades the "Flood" and "Edge" abilities from their "Darkness" to "Shadow" counterpart... But aside from getting a potency bump, that's straight up it. I do feel like "evolving" abilities as you level them, that is, changing them once you hit certain thresholds, is a potential way to reduce bloat but also like, dude, get a bit creative with it lol. If all they do is change the name and up the potency, well... that's just damn boring.
@@JJMomoida I agree. I think doing small, but impactful, additional effects feel good. As a Scholar, getting the heal over time attached to Sacred Soil feels very nice. It's a small change, the potency isn't insane, but it brings a lot of bonuses with its base use (damage reduction). And tanks getting their spam tank CDs, like HoD from GNB and Bloodwhetting from WAR, are good ways to bring life to new abilities.
And example of something they could do is like with DRK having the trait that lowers Plunge CD when using Unmend? What if it makes Unmend have a cooldown (say 10 seconds) but it's now an ABILITY and thus now an OGCD. This would make it a skill that, uniquely for tanks, encourages using it off cooldown to fuel the engage tool, which edges in more damage.
Another example is how they change Bio from Scholar to Biolysis. Instead of a potency increase (which is all they did), what if if gave the Scholar additional effects on Ruin3, Ruined and Energy Drain? Small ones, like with Ruin3, it increases spell haste for your next Ruin3, but breaks when using another GCD spell. Energy Drain can deal increased damage while Biolysis is up. And Ruin 2 can consume the Biolysis to deal a burst of bonus damage, scaling with LESS time on Biolysis left. (Thus, you wait for it to tick down low, use Ruin 2, and then reapply).
The Trait system, I think, is key to making new and exciting changes without increasing the Button Bloat issues. Transforming skills to not just "do more Damage!" But also "do more shit" that leans ever heavier on the things the Job likes.
@@JJMomoida evolving abilities would add a little more personality to the character aswell i guess branching skill tree or something like that...unless i just read your comment and im way off base in which case ignore me haha
@@JoltzDaGhost while I'd love branching options and choices, I personally think it wouldn't be within the realm of possibility for 14. Only because it would seriously mess with a huge focus of theirs: Balance. But I do admit, I'd love to have the choice of making certain skills have a special effect OR doing more damage and letting each job have more expression skill wise.
I was thinking about this yesterday. If you sink down below 60 with Dancer, you lose Closed Position... You know.... the main idea of the class. It's so weird to me that wasn't designed as a low-level action.
I feel this way about bard songs. In lower-level content you don't have those. And I understand it just places you back as "archer" status, but when you earn the title of bard, I just think you should still have those abilities. But that is just my opinion.
ESO gets around this by having enemies dynamically sync to players instead of players syncing to enemies.
So a max level would be fighting a monster that feels like a max level mob, but that same mob would feel like a lvl 15 mob to a lvl 15 character. This would only be for duties that require level sync obviously. I feel like it’d work pretty well in FFXIV.
That is actually a neat idea. But how does that work if you play together with lower level players, say, one level 30 one and one level 10 one? Would the level 30 one fight the enemy scaled for their level and the lvl 15 one the same scaled to theirs?
This is the same way it works in WoW. The trick here is behind the curtains all monsters are designed at their max level version, and player output is multiplied the lower level they are, and disguised as lower numbers/levels on their screen.
Like everything this also has drawbacks, like the feeling youre being "punished" to a harder rotation and having to put more work to get the same output the level 30 bard gets by spamming Quick Nock.
The true solution to this (that seems the most likely given what they’re doing with the new glossary system they added in EW) is to section off 2.0-6.0 content into their own optional solo only content using trust system (which they’re updating every patch).
Then everything from 6.1 onward becomes the equivalent of FFXIV-2, where starting in 7.0 the only “old content” available to roulette from will be from 6.1->6.5.
New players could optionally choose to start at 6.3 or do 2.0 solo with trusts, like a new game+ style opt in.
This will also probably come with a level squish back down to 50 if I had to guess.
delubrum was a pain without premade even in shadowbringers. no1 using actions it literly took like 50 min if you just queued for it.
for relic steps that force you to sync down are a perfect place to dust of the blue mage. you get to you all ur skills on blue mage no matter the lvl.
keeping ur skills when you get synce down will never work. imagine joining lvling rolo and you get match with a sprout in satasha, he will have his basic 1-2 combo, meanwhile you have all your skill from lvl 90, the balance would be impossible.
Not to mention that said sprout might also lose interest due to how much more obvious they got carried (which SE wants to avoid as much as possible).
SWTOR did it right. Doing Flashpoints with newbie friends with my full kit being synced down.
24:00 that's what I thought too. BLM literally deals less dmg than any heal or tank up till lvl 50, starts doing some dmg at 60 and becoming OK at lvl 70. I thought they should perhaps get some additional lvling skill, one aoe, one single target and one buff kinda like leylines to help em get to lvl 70. I had literally 2 friends that quit the game and when I asked them what job they played they said, thaumaturge. Well no shit that jobs boring till lvl 70 and becomes really good at 80
I am glad I leveled BLM using the MSQ because the story is a huge distraction. Would be boring as hell if I had to grind dungeons to level it.
A solution might be to give each job a leveling kit, say 20-50 (1-20 for basics). Then for each expansion bump up that kit (e.g. 20-60, 20-70). That way skills outside your leveling kit will always be acquired over the last 30 or so levels. To keep things less boring they can always keep the mechanics in your leveling kit similar but offer potency increases using traits (or upgraded skills if they want to put in the effort).
Some stuff should also be rearranged. Like, why does paladin get their gap closer 12-15 levels later than the other tanks? it's not because it's better or anything, it's just cuz it was introduced in ShB, therefore it's a 70+ ability....for reasons. And new summoner is....painfully empty until 86, once again, because all the new stuff apparently can only be in 80+ because it came with EW...
What if they upscaled old dungeons if a party was all above a certain lvl? All they would need to do is up the stats of the enemies, not the players, and that would allow the party to use their whole kit.
When I was doing Delubrum(it was just before EW release), we only got 4 people and everyone was determined to finish it, so no leavers. That was one of the most fun things I've ever done in the game. I was the only healer, so we literally had to learn every mechanic in the raid. I watched other streamers play DR, and they just blasted through it without even seeing the mechanics due to the high dps. The whole raid ended up taking around 2 hours due to wiping, but it felt incredible when we finally finished it.
i got a chance to 4 person delu. no healers only rezzer casters and one melee dps who felt bad dying all the time. we cleared it easy.
So basically made the system similar to Guild Wars 2 system where once you have reach the max level, on whatever zone you are you will keep the unlockable abilities but at the end the damage will be adjusted accordingly based on the zone's level which is very great and keep the momentum of playing fun because you will not having some blockage that hinder your fun smashing those rotations...
This I agree 100% but as Zepla said having the system's legacy is being made that way, changing to this is going to cost lot more development time and their focus right now is to enhance new player experience and graphical updates which have a timeline by itself. This can be categorically as new player and veteran experience and they need to look into potential syncing issue if they want to do this approach.
As someone who takes frequent breaks, I will say that one thing I like about the level sync system is that I can go into low level dungeons to relearn abilities and slowly go into higher level content as the rust shakes off. It keeps things from feeling too overwhelming to only add back a few abilities at a time. That said, when I've been playing for a while, low levels do start to feel bad. I groan when I get Sastasha. I think this has more to do with low level design than the system itsself. When shaking off rust, I can run Sastasha once or twice then jump up 5-10 levels. When you're leveling, you might not have this liberty. I think this is something that gets overlooked in favor of divesting resources to other areas and pumping out new content.
Would you rather have WoW's content release cycle, this is just silly considering we just got more content last week
Personally I think every job should have the start of their AoE rotation by level 15 and as you mention some jobs don't get it till much later.
DRG 😢😢😢
@Ry so as dps you don’t wanna smash your head against a wall when you get Satasha from a leveling roulette
@Ry well for starters it'd make it so people would actually have a AoE when they get synced that far down and believe me I've gone from 90 to the teens and it feels really bad not having a AoE.
@Ry I was against the aoe cone changing into circle on WAR, but sure…
When you do a dungeon like Tam-Tara where a wall-to-wall pull has 10+ mobs, it’s very annoying to use single target on them, especially if you’re on lancer or rouge
@Ry I have no problem with cone attacks. Nice that you make judgements about the kind of player I am without even knowing me.
@18:00 Watch this! Two options. Option 1 keeps it the way things are now, where your job syncs down to the appropriate level. **or** Option 2, your overall damage and healing potentials scale down hard to compensate for having all of your weapon skills, abilities, and spells available at your current level. The scaling amount increases with how far away you are in level from the content you're playing and it could be selectable when duty pops with a checkbox to remember the setting.
Edit: For example, a level 30 healer's limited amount of spells would be unaffected in the duty whereas a level 90 healer will have to use all of their spells to keep up when option 2 synced to that same duty. Same for dps who have more fleshed out kits and damage potentials.
I hope I've communicated this in a clear way.
The problem with this is that there are a lot of players who are really quite bad at their max level jobs, and it will show a lot more when they're compared to a sprout who's hitting all of their available buttons easily.
I have played FF14 off and on for some time. Love the game overall. One thing my friend and I have noted is that it is really hard to get a feel for a jobs full kit outside of a dungeon or raid. Story mode quests and environmental mobs just die too fast. There's no rotation, no real way to see what a class can do outside of a dungeon where there's heavy pack pulls to learn damage mitagation as a tank or a boss with massive health to actually learn a rotation. This always made the story feel like, travel here, talk to A, travel there, talk to B, cutscene. Repeat until dungeon. For such a story focused game it really surprised me that to truly feel like I'm playing my job I have to be inside of a dungeon.
Well the good news is that you dont need to learn how to heal or tank below Extreme content (if that) because this game has become so brain damaged :)
training dummy dummy
@@penultimania4295 Gee.. so you don't PLAY FFXIV as you obviously hate it so much. Go play WoW if FFXIV is so brain damaged.
@@Spirosbotos Of course training dummy can help learn rotation, but that doesn't mean I feel like I'm actually playing my class during regular story mode. Generally a 1,2,3 combo is enough to kill any mob. Maybe doing the combo twice in some instances. That's what I mean by rotation outside of a dungeon or boss
Most jobs in XIV feel more like a rotation than an actual class lol
I recently picked up SWTOR just to experience the story and was incredibly surprised by the fact that I kept all my abilities when scaled down. By the time I was lvl 70 I felt incredibly overpowered even when scaled down to the starting planet's level. I feel like level sync with full lvl 90 kit would be incredibly risky in terms of balance.
As a new player without a slow period how would I ever catch up!? I wouldn't even play cause what's the point. Think why games need a down period...
I felt the same way when I started. To me it felt like it passed in the blink of an eye as I played. Not to mention since then they shaved a lot of unneeded stuff in the story to make catching up easier. My advice is to just start and enjoy it
I think revamping old content is needed. Between ARR and Heavensward , the filler story was too much. How many times did I have to recruit 10 Npcs, hand out clothes, hand out medicine, hand out notes, get the option of residents …etc
I felt so agitated that these “filler” quests killed a lot of fun in the game. But after talking to people, in the past content after ARR was very dry and this was a hold over for Heavensward
But like the original ARR dungeons, they should revamp and cut out the filler between the ARR and Heavensward sections. It feels so unprofessional and clunky
Oh trust me you'll catch up.
I did around 1 month per expansion. just enjoy the game at your own leisure. within 5 month, I finished endwalker from ARR. and still got stuff to explore and find new stuff
Just go for it, I started in August of last year and it passed by so fast
That happens with any freaking mmo that isnt something ff14 is just subject to. Every mmo has lulls inbetween expansions.
Personally, I wanna see more roulettes. I think a decent part of this problem stems from the fact that the existing roulettes can hit SO MANY instances but they end up almost always landing on something really low level just due to the large number of lower level players and stinky people who ilvl cheese for alliance raids and things like that.
I propose that the existing Levelling, Alliance, Trials, Normal Raids, and 50/60/70/80 Roulettes get split in half. I wanna see Levelling 1-60 and Levelling 61-89; Alliance ARR/HW and Alliance SB/ShB/END; Trials ARR/HW and Trials SB/ShB/END; Normal Raids HW/SB and Normal Raids ShB/END; and 50/60 Dungeons + 70/80 Dungeons.
Now I realize that this presents problems in that the devs probably don't want to hand out tomestones and XP at literally double the existing rate and that they also want to still incentivize players to do the older content to help sprouts. I think offering players more avenues to get XP is less of a problem, as the game gets bigger people need more and more XP to level all the different jobs available to them and with the level cap getting bigger and bigger every xpac I don't think there's anything wrong with giving people more options to get alt jobs to max level. Still, if this is an issue for the dev team you could offer less xp and that wouldn't be a problem, because I think you could address this by instituting a different reward for the 'newer' content roulettes.
To get your tomestones and your big xp bonuses you always need to do the lower level roulette (with an exception on Expert, of course) but if you do a newer roulette you can get a reward in the form of MGP, maybe a guaranteed Wondrous Tails seal, perhaps some unique dyes or lockboxes with minions and mounts, and a lesser but still respectable amount of XP.
I think this is fine because the newer content is INTRINSICALLY fun and doesn't need an external source of reward to incentivize players to do it. If these roulettes existed, I would functionally play the game twice as much as I currently do and have a great time doing it because I WANT to run this content and I'm fine putting in the time I'm already committing to the lower level stuff to get my tomestones and XP/Gil/Materia roulette bonuses. Doing this roulette split would give players a vehicle to party with each other to play the content they actually want to play, and I don't believe it would take a large amount of dev resources to implement a satisfactory reward system as I proposed earlier.
BUMP! Honestly need this posted in numerous places for extra visibility.
Actually love this idea!
My main issue with doing low level content is how you’re (obviously) stripped of your skills and basically have nothing to use. Now yeah I get that as it’s low level dungeons and you don’t have skills unlocked at that point but doing the first few dungeons were you don’t even have any aoe skills is extremely annoying. I think they could allow you to have atleast one aoe skill unlocked before entering the first dungeon.
So because of that issue I tend to avoid the levelling roulette as I usually always get put into one of the first few starting dungeons with no aoe skills
That's usually when a new game is on the horizon getting ready in the background to start again.
Lancer/Dragoon not getting an AoE until the 40's and an AoE combat until even further? ooof. It hurts.
I would love to do Eureka but I have no idea what's going on or what the point is to it. Its very confusing.
On the note of keeping abilities, role actions already work like that, once your monk has unlocked true north at level 50 you will always have it no matter how synced you are, even in sastasha. That function is already in the game, it is just questionable if they would be willing to add it to other abilities.
I feel like, if you do all the content as it goes out then old content become irrelevant. But for new player its amazing to be able to do the old stuff. Coming from wow I really enjoy it. BUT I'm not gonna lie. I miss a system like mythic plus that allow me to do something else than raid with a smaller group of ppl and play my lvl 90 nin and practice other jobs. I know there is palace of the dead but its not the same.
I mean, maybe I feel like this because we cleared the raid kinda fast and have been on farm for a while now.
I for one am against having higher end abilities for low level stuff. For your Elder Scroll online, when I was playing, if you’re new and doing the dungeon with randoms, you are pretty much just dead weight for those who have all their abilities unlock. For they just rush forward and don’t wait for you as they one shot almost everything. It made playing the story frustrating. Same thing could happen here when a sprout runs a dungeon but all the other members just run ahead and clear everything without sweating.
You can already clear everything without sweating. 14 is an easy as hell game up until some of the optional raids and endgame content. I ran conjurer and white mage all the way from my first time loading up the game to clearing the latest savages, the game is piss easy for main story players.
I do see your point on newer people but I'd argue that's a selfish mentality. "I'd feel like dead weight so everyone else must be brought down to my level in terms of access to the game."
I'd posit that's what damage scaling is for. Implementing more instances of the number adjustment traits could be one option. IMO SWTOR does this quite well in that they automatically scale down their version of potency to be appropriate for whatever level the area is synced to. While having access to 10 abilities will make things faster and easier than only having access to 5, I'm not sure it would be as drastic as the 5 ability player being dead weight.
One of the solution would be to have rotations fleshed out earlier. Some jobs don't even have a proper rotation at 50 nowadays with how barebones and spread out over all level tiers the skills are. Condensing the addition of new skills to lower levels at lower potencies and progressively increasing the potencies through the levels could achieve a better feeling of gameplay at lower level while still keeping the damage in line.
You don't even have to have a "full" rotation at 50, but when most jobs have nothing to show for 40+ levels, it can also be quite a deterrent for newcomers if they get bored out of their mind gameplay wise.
whats the opera background music you're playing there? I need to know what it's called!
I do Delubrum Reginae normal 1-2 per week, for quest, and because I like it, and I enjoy making parties through Party Finder - good for me. The only bad thing is that we need to wait 10 min, after we register for duty, to start it. 3 min would be enough
Yeah that 10 minutes is ridiculous. I had two relics to finish post EW release and only once did we manage to add any players.
Totally agree with the 10min. I only did once after EW but it's because my playtime is crazy and can't find or can't fill a PF when I'm playing.
Making a point about who is doing Delubrum Regina Normal without a premade is like asking who is doing mount farming from extreme trials without a premade. Most of the topic is just answered with party finder, we just need to remove the stigma party finder has that people see, which are party finder pepega lulz bad raid memes.
I've completed 5 Resistance weapons after Endwalker, just use the goddamn party finder.
I do agree that people need to be comfortable with the idea of party finder, it's a great tool that will get the job done.
And minus PF for savage content most of the time it's a chill place. The one thing I see is that people think they can force their ways on other people's party finder.
Like...if you want to run a specific strat make your own PF and specify how you want things, dont think people should cater to you when you aren't party leader. But that's a different topic all together
This ties in with what I think the criterion dungeons will be. I think they'll be level 90 versions of old dungeons, perhaps a rotating selection similar to how expert changes over time. Playable with a party or solo with the trusts.
I highly doubt the criterion dungeons will be lvl 90 versions of old dungeons as they indicated we'll only get 3 or 4 dungeons (can't remember the exact amount). Although it would be really cool to see older content coming back, like what they're doing with unreal fights.
Personally the large pool of content is the draw....to me its not a distinction of old and new content. The old content matters just as much as the new since it gives me a chance to get high end rewards for doing literally anything below me that another player needs to do. I agree the using a lower level kit is kinda painful sometimes but I dont mind it as much. As always button bloat will always be an issue with no easy solution other than to keep pruning and consolidating. The alliance raid thing is definitely something that needs to be looked at theres too much cheese and redundancy in doing syrcus over and over. Need to decouple from ilvl perhaps in order to broaden the pool for roulette.
Also Timewalking as a concept would be cool especially because we have things like the Minstrals Ballad.
I was working on my first resistance weapon earlier this month and I used Party Finder to do DR normal. It was not hard to find a group (some nights even had multiple PF listings up for DR normal). I didnt need to use Discord at all.
That was my first thought when she was like "It's a nightmare WITH Discord. How would people do it without?!" Um, with the in-game party finder? The thing made for that exact purpose. I'm just imagine a montage of a decade+ of MMO history where people did things without Discord.
meanwhile it was the opposite for me. spent about a month stuck on the bozja story simply because i couldn't find people to do dr. and the one time i did (with 6 people i think?), we wiped once and half the people left. dunno if it's the active time, just crystal being crystal, or just being unlucky about when i checked party finder, but still
only change we need is MORE GLAMOUR CLOSET SPACE!!!
😂
AMEN
This sounds like a lot of entitled gamers complaining. What is the difference between this and "Why don't they give me all my new abilities as soon as the new expansion is released?" All of the content that you sync for is optional, outside of some relic grinds or special item grinds which are also optional. If you don't like syncing down then don't run that content? Having someone with all of their abilities running a level 20 dungeon will make the level 20 person feel useless because they only have a handful of abilities. It will also destroy the balance of those dungeons. Because at some of those levels jobs don't have abilities and the content is balanced for that. So you going in with a full AOE combo in a beginning dungeon would decimate that content and make it lame to run for new players. The complaints here are never going to be worth the time required to rebalance that content and it honestly isn't worth it. So if you don't want to sync just don't run it.
this. They never thought about what if a level 31 sprout ninja see and ask why another "level 31" synced down ninja what are all those skills and why don't they have it. It just doesn't make sense.
I have a bit of experience in Bozja. The raid is really difficult to matchmake into a group that is above 6 people, however I've heard that using partyfinder is much better. As far as inside Bozja itself, I'm frequently seeing 40+ people (cap is in the 70s) and most of the time you'll have 20+ people in the recruitment activities. Still very active in my opinion.
While I agree that playing with full tookkit at lvl cap feels better, I think it would get annoying having to go that hard in low level duties just to do barely more damage than a sprout pressing two buttons.
I’ve always thought they should add new tiers to existing jobs rather than just adding a new job altogether.
With a next expansion you instantly unlock a new version of an existing job
Paladin becomes Templar
Machinist becomes Gunslinger
Red Mage becomes Mystic Knight
White Mage becomes Purest
Ninja becomes Shinobi
Interesting
what would change is the question, though
As a sprout, I have to say, the syncing does present a bit of an annoyance. I have consistently been about 10 levels above the content for the expansion I am currently running. So, I'll get all these cool new skills, then log into endgame content for my current expansion, and lose all of those skills. Leveling roulette scrapes you so bare in some cases that its kinda wild. DRK is legitimately 2 attacks and an AOE, and SMN is heartbreaking watching your hard earned summons revert to Carbuncles.
They could just force a min iLvL on higher level players for earlier dungeons. The extra skills should make up the difference.
With SMN I hate playing before I get Bahamut, it just feels clunky... but the Summons - I hate that they took my Carbies for the 90 skills. First thing I did was /petglamour the ugly summons back to cute carbies :D
@ I love the sense of progression of SMN. So when my egis revert to Carbuncle, it feels worse than just having lower level skills, it feels like my character themselves has been reverted.
I haven't made it to 70 yet on my SMN, but it definitely has felt like they were missing like half of their rotation the entire time. I will say that Dreadwyrm Trance helps it a LOT though. The class feels so much better at 60 than it has the entire time.
@@SerothTalon that's why I love the command. I prefer the loom of my carbies but totally get the feel of progression with the different sumons.
I would love to summon giant carbies to the battlefield though.
I've been leveling Ninja, it's at 60 right now, and every time I do leveling roulette, I pray I am not sent to a dungeon that syncs me below level 26. For some reason Ninja gets the 3rd part of their combo at 26, so getting synced below that is beyond painful. I'm spamming the same two buttons over and over, but unlike healer, I don't have any other abilities on low cooldowns to flesh that out. It means dungeons below 26 are mind numbingly boring. I'd love to have access to my entire kit no matter the level. Just sync my stats. I play all the classes too, so it's hard to remember all the different rotations for each class at different levels. Like you said, getting synced down to 50 is boring. Even at 60 Ninja feels a lot more fun and fleshed out. I just want to be able to play any class at any level with access to its full abilities.
Honestly I'm against new jobs next expansion, they should focus at the current ones and polish them out instead. For example: gunbreaker, dancer, sage and reaper doesn't have much weapon glamour options because they are newer jobs (really hope to see old ultimate weapons added for these), but that shouldn't happen at all, just because they are new? sam and rdm have weapons for lv50 extremes despite not being at base game
The more jobs they add the harder it will be to manage them all to be equally viable and quality will suffer for sure, or they will increase time between patches again just to deliver the bare minimum
Something else that bothers me on this current format is msq duties (dungeons and trials). Are we always going to have a dungeon at levels x1, x3, x5, x7 and x9? because it makes the story having to lead into them within a time limit instead of flowing naturally. What if the story went on a chill moment at level 80 until, idk, 83 and then it gets so much action that 84, 85, 86 all have dungeons? Honestly it would've been a breath of fresh air, when I played through arr I could never tell when a duty was near compared to the expansions
Is this reddit post just a disguised request for having all your abilities for level sync. The same topic asked for since ARR by a small group of people. Was the whole preamble before just to hide the request deep into the post to try and get the people that only read the first bit to agree?
a reshuffling of the job unlocks is something I think definitely needs to happen. For example.
- As a Warrior, not having Inner Release kinda feels bad. Similar to not having Bahamut as a Summoner.
- Its really stupid that Dance Partner - One of Dancer's most important and class defining abilities - can't be used in places like Praetorium and a quarter of POTD because its a level 60 ability. Similar issue as Reaper being incredibly bad to play below 70.
- Speaking of which *SAGE CANNOT USE THEIR DoT BELOW LEVEL 30 WHEN THE OTHER HEALERS CAN. WHY???* If SE wanted Sage to not have access to shield before Scholar (fair), at least lock Eukrasian Diagnosis/Prognosis. *Not Eurkresa itself.*
Moving up DRK's second aoe to be at a more reasonable level was a step in the right direction, but more jobs than just DRK need similar treatment. It feels ass to be playing a job and not be able to use its unique functions (Enshroud on RPR, Dance partner on DNC, Eukrasian Dosis on SGE, ect) because you are below a certain level.
But as far as replayability goes. I am not a wow convert but I started playing at around the same time as that big WoW wave, I have all the ARR relics, almost stockpiled up for all the HW relics, and good headway into SHB relics. I have BIS on my main (without doing any level 90 savage: Ilevel 597) with a 590 tank and healer (working on the rest), and I have all the EX and Savage raid mounts up to Stormblood. Heck, I maxed out every job in the game, including crafters and gatherers and even got myself a full mentor crown. And there is *still shit I haven't done.* I am not even half way through Eureka, still progging my first Ultimate, let alone even so much as touched any of the others. I have Gwibers, I have Lynxes, the Eden mounts, Pandemonium Savage, and chocobo racing just to name a few things I haven't done. Heck just yesterday I started working on the verminion challenges for the Clockwork Twintania. There is a *lot* of content in this game.
As for DR normal, there are still people interested in doing it. Its the most efficient way to farm for the relic weapon for that step, and its required to progress the Bozja storyline. I see it in party finder occasionally and its very doable with 8 people, even if a few of them are new, and to my experience you don't have to wait too long if you put one up yourself to get a full party.
Outdated content is only outdated to people who only play a one or two maxed out jobs, or someone who has everything maxed already. Plenty of people run “outdated” content, and will do for as long as there are new players or jobs to level.
I do agree with many of the other points, though, specially the abilities locked when sync.
I'm a relatively new player and I'm already tired of old content bc of how syncing works. I can't be bothered to run any roulettes (seriously, I haven't ran a PvE roulette in months), bc I enjoy playing my jobs with all my abilities, and it's jarring and unfun to play my favorite jobs without my kit.
I think at least for casual content (basically non-ultimate content) they should just crunch the numbers on total potency every 10 levels for every job, and allow people to set a preference somewhere if they'd rather be level synced with their current level's kit, in which case they'd have basically a damage down debuff that sort of equalizes the kit's total potency.
This is not a lot of manual work tbh. Take the 1 or 2 minute total potency for each job every 10 levels, then apply a debuff equal to the difference between their current closest 10 level tier, and the rounded down 10 level tier of what they're synced to. The numbers could be crunched legit in an afternoon for all jobs.
@@yScribblezHD personally if i play "old content" i want my job be like same than is was in the old time.
for example if i do old raid i don't want skills what didn't exist yet.
@@kmeanxneth Savage content isn't meant to have the same relevancy as Ultimate content long term. If adding the option to change how sync works for content, adding that to Ultimate would have an impact that's not worth having. Adding the option to old savage content though isn't really hurting anything, you can unsync that stuff anyways. It's not casual, I just meant it's not really an issue to let people sync to old savage stuff with a full kit :P
@@kmeanxneth That's why I said you can have the option. That being said, syncing down is NOTHING like how jobs used to be for any pre-Shb content from my understanding. I didn't play back then, but ARR and HW jobs were insanely different from what I hear, and I think between Shb and SB there were huge changes to stuff like aggro management for tanks. If you like having the skills that you'd have at that level though, I do think people should be able to choose :)
@@kmeanxneth Having abilities removed doesn't mean you get the same experience people had. Because from an expansion to an other, kits are changed or reworked. And you can only experience the content being min or max ilevel, you can't mimic the fact that, unless you clear the content week one, people never did min ilvl but had a few pieces to help them
Speaking of Bozja I plan doing the questline soon as I really want the gunbreaker weapon from it. So hoping I don't have too many issues with getting people.
if you do it at the peak times, its less a pain. there is still a fair number of people running Boz and Zan. its great for leveling 71+ after all.
Don't worry. Bozja is still very active. There are 3 required "dungeons" that might be hard to find a party for, but I think getting into a Bozja-centric Discord might solve the issue.
Just because someone doesn't like a design doesn't automatically mean it's a "problem" that needs to be changed.
This isn't a problem unless you specifically have a problem with it. Most often this is people who are obsessed with "rotation" complexity.
Level sync has a lot of benefits and often-times is actually fun/interesting/engaging. While I understand why some people dislike fewer buttons/less complex rotations that doesn't make it "bad".
I for one often prefer doing level sync content specifically because of the fewer buttons, not "always" but "often". It's actually quite nostalgic.
There most definitely is room for improvement on the ability distribution across levels but that's hardly and argument for "the game needs to change".
I feel like at least noting things like Eureka and Bozja, yes there's still loads of players doing that content but to a certain extent I reckon that's cause there's a lack of max level content to do. I mean if you're max level but you're not into raids or extremes there's nothing for you right now other than logging in to do your weekly things. Which I suppose is how they utilise older content, by having other jobs and the roulettes, however I also feel like older content shouldn't be seen or used to supplement the lack of current content.
In terms of overall content it seems like they've been adding less and less since SB, less dungeons, less trials, Bozja had significantly less content I feel compared to Eureka and being over 6 months into the expansion with no casual/midcore endgame content feels like something that should be addressed before the next expansion. Like for me it feels ridiculous that it takes so long to implement the relic weapons now, seemingly for no reason as well, in ShB you can say sure we got ocean fishing and several stages of Ishgard Restoration before the relic weapons but EW doesn't have anything like that.
Small note on jobs, I suspect that we're maybe going to get a total max of like 5 jobs before they stop adding new jobs, as much as they've said about creating new jobs for XIV, they've also equally spent a lot of time talking about how hard balancing is and the increasing difficulty to balance jobs the more get added, plus the continuied homogenisation of jobs especially tanks which has come with every expansion which I feel is a direct result of trying to make it easier to balance jobs.
And I've said it multiple times, it's awesome that the devs have the "if you're not having fun go play something else" mentalitity, however that only works if players come back and since I'd say 5.2 I've noticed increasing amounts of friends and FC members who just don't come back. So I do feel they need to make changes to how they deliver content and what content they deliver just so they can retain their players, more specifically their veteran players, new players they have no trouble getting and keeping, I being one of them from near the end of SB, but after playing through all of ShB it does feel somewhat disappointing that I'm not as surprised as I should be for upcoming content because I can make pretty solid guesses as to what is coming in future patches based purely on the fact their schedule has been exactly the same for years.
Also I'm still very salty about the viera and hrothgar hair/hat situation and the high lack of dev comments about it, I mean come on like on what planet is it acceptable for them to not be able to use newly released headgear like come on SE
Amen
I love the lul. I’ve only played for a year since leaving WoW and I still have so much to do. I’m also doing current content like the tribal quests which has its own story lines and quite chill. A little palate cleanser between major patch and way shorter than WoW with a bunch more content to fill me in between. And I’m saying this as a 15 year WoW veteran
in my experience the kinds of people that complain the most about content are the ones that speed through everything and skip any dialog. (at least the newer players that came in the last year or so)
Im a student and current have the entire summer off and ive clocked 950 hours in a little over 13 weeks ( but i did have a break after the first 6 weeks that lasted a few months because of school)
anyway, its so much more engaging to go through the story slowly, read everything and it feels like you're really a part of the world. It makes it much more enjoyable.
"lull". lul means asshole in dutch. Do you love the lul
I think one very interesting part of this discussion, the weaker less powered version of core abilities, pops up in summoner. Aether charge, is something you get very early, and later on becomes summon Bahamut. Does it summon a dragon? No but it does give you your gems, and a short buff period. I'm not sure how you'd tone down a reaper's enshroud mechanically, but you could easily have the lore explanation be you just channel some of your voidsent's power.
A weaker Enshroud would just give you an aura.
i don't see any problem with the sync down system. You basically just press less buttons and only have to do it like 1 game a day or probably not during roulette if you're unlucky enough. why bother fixing and putting such work on the dev for such trivial thing? Plus having all of your skills in satasha just doesn't make any sense. They made skills unlocked thru leveling to give a sense of progression. You're not supposed to have 69 skills at level 15 while a true sprout has 2 buttons at 15. It would be great if the team focus more of polishing the jobs we're having now til 7.0
I've never had the impression that CBU3 is complacent about potential issues. They're undoubtedly aware of things like this and thinking of potential solutions.
the only problem that CBU3 has is when they’re blissfully unaware of an issue people have, rather than ignoring it. It took them a long time to learn players outside of Japan might have issues with high ping messing with their burst-y rotations, for example
lulls in ffxiv are fine, they give me a chance to take a break and go play other things idd like to play. as for the loss of skills when leveling down im not a fan, but i understand why its done. should they fix it? nah idd rather them spend that time making other content. i feel the reward for playing low level content is good enough to keep the majority of players running it. if its too boring for you dare i say multi task and do something else. runescape on another monitor or a mobile phone game works nicely while you just spam your 1 button rotation. heck just watch netflix while doing old content if its soo boring.
It is something defo worth developer time because currently being downscaled to a 1 buttom rotation makes alot of peoples simply avoid that content which means that content is dead and right now 90% of the game have pretty much no players (previous expansions) because being downscale is something alot of peoples avoid like the plague because their class just dosent feel good playing in that content. You have to realise that by fixing this one simple thing they open up a whole bunch of new doors for peoples to explore and enjoy.
I believe a good solution to the level sync and ability issue is to just adjust acquiring base abilities to be within 1-50, so you have /essentially/ the full kit at 50 which is when raid content (Coils) starts, so syncing the content doesn't feel like a punishment. 51+ are limited to upgrade abilities (Stone > Stone II > Stone III > Stone IV > Glare > Glare III) and then, maybe have 60, 70, 80, 90, on get one unique ability (Communio, Shadowbringer, etc.), but that's a HUGE maybe because of the fact one ability can change how a job is played. But even if it does, you still get a full kit at the level that raid content for ARR starts with, so you're not /completely/ missing out on things if you want to go back and sync old content.
These ppl always come out when there's a FF14 content drought. You can set your watch by it. This needs to change, that needs to change, the game is dying out!!!! And then a patch drops and then they stop posting things like this and go and go guzzle down all the cool new things to do.
But then after they finish with that they'll go back to posting about how the game has less and less to offer and how it's all gonna end in doom and gloom.
I would take this with more seriousness if that was the sentiment during the peaks and not the valleys because this surely wasn't the case at launch.
And it's usually only from ppl who refuse to take a break from the game. They'd rather whine about something they play 24/7 doesn't have the same appeal it had when it was fresh and new.
Ofc it won't- absolutely nothing, nothing happens like that.
I think a lot of people forget how simple the gameplay for a lot of Jobs was in ARR. Things like DRG and BRD have way more going on now than they did back in 2.X. Honestly, the Jobs feel very much similar, in my experiance, when scaled down now than they did back then, with the exception of a handful that might actually feel like they have more going on now. The Jobs aren't being simplified by new stuff being added. They were that simple to begin with. Its just they have grown that much since then.
For WHM, and healers in general, the dps kit has always been pretty simple. SCH is the main difference since they had more of SMN's skill set originally. I think the only difference now with WHM now to WHM in the past is there is one less dot to maintain and cleric stance isn't a thing you have to juggle anymore (a gameplay change that most people seemed to actually approve of).
Either way, on this issue, I have a fair amount of faith that Yoshi P will handle it as is needed for me to enjoy the game.
I dunno how many time in the MSQ I came out of a cut scene to find the boss half dead OR the boss dead and the room empty. Honestly, I think allowing higher traits in lower levels would be a big mistake. I know that there are not enough selfless people in the world. Keeping your toolkit unlocked for lower level stuff would result in sprouts never getting to see the dungeon. If you wanna farm a lower level dungeon, you can just run it unsynced. Otherwise, just keep out of duty roulette if you're not wanting to go down levels. That being said, I don't mind going down and losing abilities when I do lower level stuff. It can be a shock to realize, "Oh wait, I have no AOE heal here," but. Meh.
Also, SMN has gotten light on buttons, so I don't know how they took anything from WHM. lol.
as WHM player, they just took like 1-2 actions no one was using.
in EW we have more buttons now XD
U absolutely agree with this. I leveled my ninja through only roulettes, and besides a normal raid here and there, I legit only got lvl 50 content or lower until I was max.
On the other hand, with the temp abilities, I think that could work for a extent. If I remember correctly, machinist pretty much gets like 2 or 3 new buttons from lvl 60 or so, and all the basic buttons gets a new name and flashier animations. Might remember wrong since it was a long time ago I leveled any alt jobs.
I always wondered if they could just sync stats instead of syncing levels. keep the skills but you would do the damage of whatever level the dungeon is.
That sounds like a nightmare to do.
How would you balance that ?
@@Colaschnittchen probably by scaling some stats down or scaling some mobs up or a mixture of both? Essentially it would be kind of what we have now but with all of our skills. I have a feeling its very possible because if you notice in any deep dungeon you get all your skills you normally get except the role skills. I agree though that its probably tedious to do that for every single skill in the game. Much faster process to just sync everyone down.
@@DiZZxDaxSHoTTa Sure but the player with lowerlv had to be balanced with player with higher levels. Imagine playing a lv 16 bard in satashe together with a lv 90 bard.
@@Colaschnittchen ah very true. a way to i guess kind of remedy that is to do what some wow private servers have done which is scale the mobs to the players individually for example the level 90 would be fighting mobs scaled to his level but the 16 would see that same mob as a level 16. Again probably a tremendous undertaking in ff since the coding is probably much different but its worked on servers i've played on. it requires alot of tuning though so I doubt they'd go that route either.
10lv for each job = 5 new skill every patch for each job (4months patch release sched)
so that's an additional 40 job lvl and 20 skill for 1 full patch arc per job
so the guy that made the reddit post is just saying that focus on adding more skill and job lvl instead of doing other things that's a 19 job class (20 if you add BLU mage) to the mix because 4months for every major patch release vs time needed to develop each job for their new skill and not to mention balancing it
i think that guy is crazy for thinking it's possible to add 5new skill on every 4months major patch time for 19 job class
I actually had this experience last night running the lvl 89 dungeon with my friends. We were all trying to reach 90 on reaper and I managed to do so in the middle of the dungeon, unlocking communio. My friend remarked how strange it was that if you level up in the dungeon you get access to the ability you unlock at that level *in the dungeon*. But if you level sync back down you can't use that ability anymore.
Personally I think the correct solution is to make sure each job has access to fundamental elements of gameplay before the first dungeon experiences. These being a single target combo, an AoE ability, a ranged ability, and perhaps? a dash. Dashes obviously are different, since some jobs don't have that mobility in the first place...
What DOES feel good to me is role actions. Once they're unlocked they're usable in all instances, even those that are level synced. You can't tell me that Arm's Length or Bloodbath aren't insanely useful and don't make higher level characters way more powerful when level synced than non-synced characters.
Most of the time if you're new to the game running content for the first time you *are* carried through the duty by older players. Players with better gear, players with a better understanding of the game, players who have run the content before and know the mechanics. I'm not sure that idea of changing level sync to allow for all abilities to be used is a bad one. Impossible to implement seems more likely, but it's not a bad idea imo.
That's not true. Queueing for the 89 dungeon doesn't sync you to 89, you stay 90, so you still have your 90 skill, and that's why you can level up to 90 during the dungeon and get access to it. The only way you'd be synced to 89 is if you're only 89, or if you queue it via min-ilvl (which would then keep you 89 even if you level up to 90 during it). So that's consistent.
@@PBurn88 why then when I was running the same dungeon on warrior I lost Primal Rend?
@@LemonInYourEyes your party leader probably forgot the minimum item level option activated.
It happens.
Dungeons have a range of levels you can be.
89 dungeons can be played at lvl 89 or 90.
I'm 100% sure about this because my friend made us farm one of those for a drop.
@@LemonInYourEyes As the guy above said, the most likely reason is the min-ilvl option was selected when you were on WAR, but not when you were on RPR. This is probably due to a change in party leader, since I doubt somebody would switch that option on/off randomly between runs. Or possibly you weren't queueing as a group of 4 when you were RPR, so min-ilvl stayed inactive even though it was selected. Then you switched to WAR and got a 4th member, causing min-ilvl to be active.
Other than that, the only alternatives I can think of are that you actually ran the 87 dungeon on WAR and just forgot that it wasn't the 89 one, or that you just made a mistake and thought Primal Rend was unavailable when it wasn't. Not suggesting you'd make these mistakes, but just being thorough.
This was something I remember Mr.Happy mentioning a few times in the past where he wished he could have the whole kit but if it was dumbed down damage wise so it would be on par for that level because people are used to using it. The thing I more so worry about is for the people going through the experience for the first time don't feel like they are contributing much if at all because us and our fancy abilities to be OP and carry them through the game. But they could say do what they do with the role actions where we get all the abilities permanently but in this case they all equal the same average DPS output if not a tiny little better and let us gain traits at the levels we would get them to let the abilities do the proper damage they are supposed to do at their level. This way we get our kits and we don't just completely steamroll things with potencies that are way higher than they should be for that time. Of course there are obvious flaws with this because I am not considering every side of things, I just feel that it isn't fair to new players if they are wanting. If they were to try it this way at least they wouldn't have to rebalance old abilities each expansion because of new abilities creating new rotations. But I don't know, just an idea that I thought of and perhaps something that could be expanded upon by others or the devs themselves.
It's so crazy seeing Delubrum Reginae die so fast post-EW D:
I remember queueing up for it and taking less than 5 minutes with a full party everytime.
I can't progress my relic or access zadnor because of DR. The best I have been able to muster is an unsuccessful 8 man.
@@25xxfrostxx Really? I ran it a few times post EW release to finish my last two relics and it was doable even with 3 people.
@@25xxfrostxx partyfinder groups is the way to go now. easily doable with just 4 (assuming everyone knows mechanics)
@@25xxfrostxx best to join those discords she was mentioning about. But yea, it died down quite a bit till Devs fins another means to reuse the zones again 😅
It can be done with a 3 man group. As a SMN with not even half my Rays im able to tank, heal and dps it with new runners.
In a live letter a while back Yoshi mentioned Criterion Dungeons with variable difficulty. I wonder if that will address the concern of synced jobs. I'm imagining doing Sestasha with the equivalent of level 90 enemies and actions.
hope you and yours are doing well zepla, my thoughts and heart and prayers and love and support go out to all of you every single day, I hope you and yours are safe and sound where you are zepla, stay always in the protection and light and guidance of the crystal. Slava Ukraine
Anyone have a link to that baldesian arsenal discord she was talking about?
A good compromise i think is creating level brackets. Say for all EW content (including FATES) you get to keep your kit up to lvl 90 (even on a level 81 dungeon for example). For any ShB dungeon and fates content you have access up to all skills to level 80. Max 70 for any SB content, 60 for HW and 50 for ARR. At least you get to play the game with the entire kit that was actually designed for that expansion without introducing skills/ rotations that was designed for a higher level expansion. This system also works with the fact that not everyone has all the expansions. It doesnt make sense to allow EW skills into ARR content for example when you have players who only have ARR and will not be able to attain such skills (heck perhaps some of the skill files arent even present since they only have ARR).
Imo when synced they could apply a 50% potency debuff. The movement, %mitigation, and raw damage added by increased kits is a lot. I think people would love having a full kit on sastasha even with dramatically reduced potency
This thought will be counter intuitive but a part of the reason why content is repayable is the fact you don't get o use your end game skills. Old content is not balanced around the newer skills. Allowing them in that content would more than likely kill any form of challenge that they have left after the obvious power creep already occurring.
While it'd be fun to run ARR or HW content with a full DRK kit, most everything would become so stupidly easy that it would get being quite quickly. That is what kills replayability.
To be clear, I think there are quite a few things that the development can do to improve the experience in older content.
Basic QoL would be getting melee AoE a lot earlier and maybe giving players a keystone ability around 30. There's quite a bit of small tweaks they can do to vastly improve things.
I would say it depends. The job kits from level 70 and above feels a lot more comprehensive, which is where the ultimate raids start on. Majority of the dps class have gauge management at level 70 which increases the fun a lot. When doing synced down content at level 50 and 60, they’re extremely boring
What server does Zepla play on,anyone? Would love the chance to see her in game.
Its up to devs to decide what to do, they know what they are capable more so than players, so im not so concerned about this
i just wish they would stop releasing new classes and focus on the 20 classes we have now.
there's so many classes that feel boring or incomplete until expansions. there is a lot of replaybility with old content, but not having core abilities feels bad.
i feel like the biggest issue is that the max level is getting bigger and bigger.
Are we getting endwalker relic weapons?
I am leveling my monk right now and I'm coming up on level 80 and my usual leveling roulette is a CT alliance raid, MSQ roulette which is lvl 50 as well, leveling roulette, which is weirdly always Stone Vigil which is like lvl 40 content. If I do normal raids it's always A3 or A4 and if I get lucky I get a stormblood trial, which is the only semi level appropriate thing I do...
where can i find the discord server?
The reason that the systems exist right now that level sync us down and incentivise older content is so that new players have people to play with. If Bozja didn't get people to run old FATEs and old raids, then the old content might feel empty to newer players, and they would be less likely to stick around.
FFXIV keeps old content alive better than many MMOs but it has nothing on how XI was in the past. Releasing expansions without increasing the level cap kept people doing old content forever, or at least until they made the mistake of increasing the level cap and ruined it.
Tried to do DR Normal a while ago, and we got 4 people (2 in my group, 2 matched). The 2 matched people left because they wanted to queue for Savage. It's probably easily doable with 5 people but still.
A few points don't make sense to me because
- For not being able to use "new shiny kit", you could just do the end-game dungeons?
- Lower content IS going to have less coherence because that was how the job played at the time. The "advanced" jobs unlocked with each expansion have so little before laying on the more complex stuff so you can still go through content and learn what the job's core mechanic is. Whether managing stacks of Aetherflow for Scholar, or learning how to use Ninjutsu for Ninja.
- Bozja/Zadnor and Eureka are in the end, optional content for people to do. Same with relic weapons which while they give a nice item level weapon, aren't needed when the tome weapon or Savage weapon will be just as good or better.
But mainly, yes old content gets shelved as new stuff comes out. That's pretty standard for ANY game. Someone in the comments already mentioned it, but having all the current abilities in older content will become a chore as SE would need to CONTINUOUSLY manage and adjust things as each expansion suddenly becomes a past one. Even sync'd in item and level, stuff gets burned quite fast. Imagine having say Stardiver or RDM's combo at Sastasha. Deleted to all hell.
I just want them to add a cutscene timer in the party frame so I can know roughly when the new person’s cutscene will end. Sometimes that cutscene feels like it’s going on for an eternity.
I was honestly hoping that in 7.0 the new story expansion would be accessible right after completing the ultima weapon quest in ARR as an alternate story path. Not only would this make it much easier for new players to catch up to the new content, but would also keep the max level at 90 and not further distancing the ability gap with later expansions. But there would still be the issue of running brand new content capped at level 60, which would feel so gross.
Back then we don’t have the “role skill” category, we have what was called “cross job skills” system. This is based on the basis that all advance job back then such as white mage, scholar, paladin, bard….” require more than just their base job. For example, to be scholar, i has to be level 30 Arcanist, level 15 conjuror. What this mean is, aside from my arcanist, I also have access to limited range of conjuror skill, as well as thaumaturge as it’s the “tertiary” job mix for scholar. One example of skill I get from conjuror as scholar is Acolyte Stance, I think it was a 10-15 sec Cooldown stance button that increase heal by 20%. It was a must get for scholar back then for us to match white mage heal muscle back then because we were way more relying on faerie back then as compared to them being just a minor support now, which explains why we have 2 version of them still in the game. If my memories serve me right we also level thaumaturge to get Thunder and a mana barrier skill for progression. We get to choose at max level (50) about 6 or 8 skills, where the slot gradually increase as we level up ( I think it was 2 in beginning, 3 at 20, 4 at 25, then just gradually increase by one slot every 5 lvl starting at 35). It was a fun system but I can see the difficulties and frustration in designing job and balance them with such system due to the customisation.
Just got 2 resistance weapons in Bozja/Zadnor and it was a chore getting a party at times for D R. A lot of times I was queued in with just one other person.
Really depends on the time of day. Weekends seemed better than weekday evenings
This issue is most clear in Summoner, I think. Here's the gist.
Press Button A to summon pet, then press Button B in combat to start your timer, when the timer is finished, you get resource C, you can then press Button D, to activate the thing, and then you can finally use Button E to do the rest of your damage kit.
This is at like level 10. I had absolutely no idea where it was going at this point.
I really don't want to just have all abilities at level sync. WoW did that for dungeons in BfA, and it's part of why I made so many alts. I enjoy the leveling process of starting out with a few skills, and getting more over time. so I'd go back just to have the low level kit again. Final Fantasy has finally cured my Altoholism by indulging that feeling at all times. Plus it gives a feeling of everyone's kit growing around you while you're progressing. Like for example, you start to see Summoners using Bahamut at level 70 raids.
If you get your current kit at any level, no one knows what to expect. Everyone might think that the Red Mage is able to res people in Level 50 and 60 content, but they aren't, and that could cause friction. The first time someone gets kicked for not being high enough level to have some specific utility in a piece of content meant for a lower level, that system fails. it might not happen often, but even a simple "Red mage, Res me! oh, you're too low level? ok" could lower a player's experience, if only that it makes them feel like they need to be max level in order to do anything.
WoW kind of circumvented this by having all dungeon syncing content be braindead easy. you can't level sync raids or Mythic+, so no one's going to be toxic like that.