Now we need to see how quickly Sonja rockets to Tier 0 when she has her Counter Break effect as a day-to-day. No extra sight, no 10% stats, just the Fire Emblem Vantage effect where she attacks first even on your turn. I'd pay good Likes to see that :D
You're comparing her having a permanent Super to Olaf having permanent Power. I think any global damage CO would be the top tiers. Hawke could even potentially heal off the damage if he plays passive
@@whichDude I am, yes. Though technically only a piece of her super. I wasn't making any sort of balance claim or expecting it to be fair, I just really wanna see how broken that particular effect is. Plus it'd be nice to see Sonja off the bottom tier, if only for a minute.
@@Tzizenorec Yeah, this is not the first time I've considered this, and it seems like defense and distance are the two solid counters to her. Kanbei and Grit probably some of the strongest, at least in terms of directly hard-countering the ability. But some are just so strong they could probably overwhelm her regardless.
1. Add 8+1 (1 for the power itself) cOm towers to one side 2. Pick Grimm for that side 3. Never use powers Perma-super Grimm (misses the 10% defence, but oh well) 5+1 instead for perma-power Which tier would he be then?
Olaf. The permanent mobility advantage is massive, and much like Sturm vs Hachi should win the day with enough aggression even if Olaf lacks attack and defense boosts.
If you think about it, this literally is just sturm but slightly less broken. No stat buffs or perfect terrain movement, but your opponent can't move at all. Even then, sturms perfect movement made him disgusting at easily contesting usually safe city captures, so really it's only the stat buffs that are majorly different.. That movement advantage leads to an immediate income lead, and that is just too much of an advantage in the early game when funds are so low. Getting even 5k extra income that early is ridiculous, let alone anything over 10k. In a somewhat ironic way, olaf prevents hachi from snowballing, by literally preventing the snowball from being made. Which I dunno how since it's snowing. Probably the snow froze over and is mixed with ice and incredibly heavy. That stuff is a PAIN to shovel, so most likely that.
@@MrxD-cg5xs That's only in Dual Strike if memory serves. And since Snow was pretty heavily nerfed to not increase movement costs, it's honestly not that much of a buff.
@@NeoTiamat thats possible, yeah. Tbh I haven’t played AW 1 or 2 in a while, I probably just misremembered. I thought that was a thing in those games too. As for DS, yeah snow is significantly weaker than before, but Olaf does get 2 turns of snow out of his Blizzard now, which is kind of broken in its own right. Snow is less impactful, but a good Olaf can keep it up almost the entire match, consistently buffing his own army.
I think Olaf has the advantage. Double movement over your opponent is massive. The mobility advantage counteracts Hachi's forward deployment on SCOP, and the increased capture speed counteracts Hachi's discounts, at least early to mid game. If Hachi survives until the late game, however, I believe he can take back the advantage. Added near the start: I also thought Olaf has a big advantage with indirects, but I didn't see the infantry vs mountains issue before you mentioned it. Yup, as expected. The indirect advantage didn't come into play in the end, the movement advantage was enough. With AWDS snow, on the other hand, Hachi would have crushed Olaf. Double fuel expenditure just doesn't have the same impact; if any, considering there aren't that many air units on this map (and no ships). Really interesting match!
With AWDS Snow in mind we also have to consider that Olaf wouldve have had a constant 20% Attack over Hachi , which alongside Global damage it wouldve been a worthy foe for Hachi
The big question here is which snow rules we are talking about. In AW:DS, Hachi would dominate this battle, but in AW2 Olaf dominates for the same reason why Sturm is considered broken: he completely breaks the map. While Sturm creates paths and capture chains, Olaf denies them. He is doing the inverse of what Sturm does, but it has the same effect. Movement based day to day abilities are broken.
2:35 - Normally my prediction would be that Olaf's forces will snowball (natch) and create an early lead that Hachi cannot overcome, but there are A LOT of roads on this map. Unless Olaf wins before the first SCOP, Hachi takes it. P.S. - Any chance you'll take a look at Metal Slug Tactics?
By turn 13, Olaf is 10k ahead and has overmatched Hachi. Two things I didn't consider: the mountain range preventing front-shifting for Hachi, and the global damage from Olaf negating a good deal of the discount once SCOPs start popping. Permafrost Olaf is scary, he'd make a great boss fight for an "Advance Wars Zero" romhack.
Permafrost Olaf is my prediction for the winner! Edit: My prediction was spot on. Snow slowed down Hachi's economy, not to mention the massive repair bill on the units built from Merchant Union that were damaged by Winter Fury. Bad economy and super defense opponents (Kanbei and 2 tower Javier) are not fun things for Hachi.
Any CO with access to their normal power every turn is unbeatable. If Added got an extra move every turn, if Andy got +2 HP every turn, they beat any CO. It would be quite a fun challenge to try to beat permaluck Nell. Can you make that happen?
Jugger, Flak, and Sonja all seem pretty beatable with permanent power up time. Jugger and Flak fire power boost even with good rolls is still just shrugged off by monsters like Kanbei. Sonja power only grants 1 vision. Eagle also seems pretty tame if going by 2 power. His air gets extra 20% firepower, but Sensei copters will still hit harder. And he can jam the field with infantry to get AA to take out fighters
GBA AW1 says that Olaf was an Orange Star CO who turned traitor for Blue Moon. AW2 says he was born and raised in Blue Moon. My personal headcanon is that since Orange Star and Blue Moon have a long history of tit-for-tat land battles, Olaf was probably born in Blue Moon territory that Orange Star later conquered. And Olaf joined the Orange Star military fully intending to betray them and return the territory to Blue Moon. But his success went to his head and he thought he could completely wipe out Orange Star.
Imo the problem is that the plains are on the strong side which means it drastically increases reinforcement time for Hatchi which means his strong side's threat potential is greatly limited as if he pushes too far with tanks for example, he can't cover them with reinforcement tanks from the bases unless he does a permanent tank stream which isn't economically viable even for hatchi. Also Hatchi will lose big value against Winter fury simply because he'll need to drag his units to cities for repairs or have to deal with a permanent firepower and defense debuff (from his units being damaged). Also, even as hatchi, there is so much you can do before being too far behind economically where even getting a -50% cost on units isn't enough to keep up. Also Winter Fury will actually drain a LOT of Hatchi's funds since his repairs happen the day AFTER he pops his power or SCOP which means he repairs units with his usual 10% decrease instead of 50.
That's no contest, Olaf takes this hands down because he has practically TWO CO powers permanently on. 1) The snow-based movement advantage. 2) Pseudo gold rush or even eventually barter from the early economic advantage. I don't see anyone besides maybe AW2 Sturm putting up a fight against perma-snow Olaf.
I don't think that Sturm(being weak to snow) would do much better in this situation, as he would have a worse economy and charging his SCOP would take way too long to help him. Raw stats can only take you so far when your oponent is snowballing like crazy.
@@xelius2683 "Weak to snow" is relative, he "only" loses his movement advantage compared to regular COs bringing him down to normal, but he still has his insane +20/20 stats. I'm mostly assuming that he's the only CO that could fight from the economic disadvantage and not instantly crumble due to his def bonus. But yes, at best, it would be an uphill battle for him.
I think Olaf will have the initial advantage, but Hachi will pull through eventually because Merchant Union bringing units straight to the fight makes movement less important.
Reinforcing the front lines can be hard when it takes your army a minute to get there, and your oppent knows to block your cities. I can't see any CO beating Olaf in permanent snow
I'm predicting an Olaf dub simply because of all of the mountains - non-Olaf, non-boosted infantry can't cross them without transport help, so Hachi is going to have a nightmare of a time getting reinforcements to the front lines, whereas Olaf can reinforce his front lines no problem. Edit: Yep, and funnily enough, you brought up the exact same points about mountains that I did. Crazy how gimped movement can hobble even the most busted of COs. Also, as an addendum: I don't give much stock to the AW1 backstory, as it really gives the impression of being cobbled together on the fly, before Intelligent Systems had much of a plan for the series in general. Case in point: according to AW1, Olaf defected to Blue Moon, yet in AW2, it's revealed that Olaf was born and raised in Blue Moon, directly contradicting AW1. All in all, I personally consider AW1 to be mostly non-canon, with the story of Wars World officially beginning in AW2.
Very interesting question and scenario! Olaf will have a massive ground game and capture game, tons of movement to play with and global damage. Hachi has his "spam units on command on cities" absolute brokenness. I honestly think Santa olaf would win because of one single thing: unit count. Unit count is the most important thing in this game, over any other metric. And olaf's early lead will lead to massive unit count over hachi at the start. hachi may be able to deploy tons of units for cheap every once in a while, and I admit the first merchant union will hurt, but Olaf wins on a rush and becaus eof his global damage, he can really punish any attempt at amassing units. It's about Hachi's first mercahnt union, I think: if he can deliver a decisive blow then he'll win, otherwise he's done. I'd say Sensei also would have tons of trouble, and it's because boths ensei and hachi depend on cities for their abiltiies.
My best guess as to go up against Hachi's easy to build army should be someone with global damage such as Drake or Hawke, probably Drake since not only does damage the opponent but also halves fuel or something like that. 16:53 I'm sure someone out there could do a rom hack of advance wars 2 and just remake it from the ground up, making up a new story for the previous characters and go from there. Would be cool to see, which I could do it myself.
There's a lot of factors to consider, such as just how slowed down Hachi will be, countered by the map having quite the highway which negates some of that, Olaf's Super hitting SO MANY units and probably being a good counter if Hachi pops his first... so it's hard to say for sure, but I'll go with Olaf, especially if he plays aggressively enough which I feel he should on non-fog.
Permafrost Olaf seems like extreme value against Hachi. He gets more units, but Olaf gets more Damage. Also being able to front switch and take advantage of the 8hp enemies for wall breaks seems good.
Along with the 2hp global damage, Olaf also inflicted a massive cost repair fees for all those city units. Hachi didn't have the funds to repair his Neotank and could barely deploy 3 infantry that turn.
Another really nasty issue is that that movement advantage meant killmefirst's Battle Copters had basically nothing to fear ever and could harass with impunity, since the opposing anti-airs couldn't match their speed anyway and it was never a hassle to pick off any advancing ones with another unit.
15:58 Something you didn't mention that felt important, is that Olaf using Winter Fury after Hachi's Merchant Union DECIMATED Hachi with repair costs, where he started the round with less than 4000, and didn't even have enough for his Neotank to get repaired 💀
I would say Olaf. Double movement over your opponent for the whole match is insanely valuable. It's even better than Strum's day to day movement abilities.
If the Advance Wars By Web has taken the traits of the second game, snow does effectively turn the plains into a tile with a movement cost of 2 for threads. On the other hand, a plain tile with rain is just as bad for threaded units but forest see the movement cost increased, to slow down a Tank to 2 spaces (I can't remember if it's a movement cost of 3 or 4) . I don't have the first game to see if a forest tile with snow is like the second game or is just as bad as it is with rain.
2:35 - I think Olaf takes it, with the movement advantage he can shut down Hachi's opening to gain a great funds lead and finish Hachi before he gets a chance to pop Merchant Union. Even if Hachi manages to use it Olaf can front switch so much more effectively and constantly be pestering Hachi's properties
I predict Olaf honestly. As much as Hachi's SCOP is broken, his units will struggle to move at all in the snow, while Olaf gets a massive movement advantage. This is why the only day to days that give movement bonuses affect transports specifically. Having it on all your units is straight up broken, especially as much of an advantage as you get with Olaf in permanent snow.
Yup, I had it right. Movement really just is that important. I didn't think it'd be such a massive difference between the two, but it makes sense. With how hindered Hachi's movement is here, he fell behind in the capture game really fast, and once the income difference starts becoming bigger, it stacks and gets felt hard the longer the match goes on. Hachi's powers mean nothing when his opponent has like almost twice as much income as him.
This reminded me of your video of Olaf beating Hawke. Besides the global damage snow is just a direct impediment. I think that Hawke is above him simply for his day to day more than his powers. If Olaf had a similar boost as him just only active during snow that would be enough to push him up
This matchup is literally just hachi vs sturm, but sturm's army got a cold removing their 20/20 extra stats, as well as magically forgetting how to drive through forests and stuff. BUT, they remembered to put winter tires on this time, while everyone else continues to use all season tires.
I do hope to see more players to use transport units as they are very rarely built. They are quite useful in both rain and snow for infantries/mechs. It would make the early game a bit interesting in how their opponents and each other will react whenever they use transport to rush a city.
I subscribe to the belief that Olaf led a coup in Orange Star that eventually leads to the formation of Blue Moon. It's now he can he both a defector and patriotic.
I don't think Olaf ever reached "sit back and chill" levels. Considering Hachi's power, to "sit back and chill" against Hachi, you need more than _twice_ his income. Olaf clearly had the win, but he had to keep pushing. Allowing Hachi the freedom to bank funds would have been a mistake.
This matchup honestly feels like a counterpick. Hachi is a CO that needs a strong capture phase to start his snowball, and global damage feels like one of the better supers you can have against someone who wants to spam so many units. Hachi never gets the chance to show why he's broken.
My prediction: Because the video is only 20-minutes long, Olaf wins. Hachi is a snowball commander, whereas the longer the match goes on the stronger he gets. However, he is weaker in the early game compared to some other COs. The snow will slow down Hachi's early-game economy enough that the Olaf player will have too great an advantage for Hachi to overcome.
Something that came to mind watching this video (as an idea since I don't know how possible to recreate it is) is, how would a competitive game could develop if every player could start with their Super Power right on the first day (not permanent, only once). The strategy for some COs would be interesting to see
Napkin math theorizing: So Hachi essentially has half move BUT frequently half-price units. Will likely have slightly fewer properties due to Olaf's unrestricted movement. Olaf essentially doesn't have a normal power, and due to Hachi's *value* reduction, his meter will take longer to fill. However, his SCOP is still a big swing when he gets it. I think Hachi still has a very slight edge due to unit count & reinforcement shenanigans, but ONLY IF I'm remembering correctly that snow doesn't affect Roads(/Shoals) My money is on Hachi, but I would *not* bet a lot on that prediction.
Glad I was right about the zero-star terrain movement, phew 15:23 After about 3-4 frames here, Winter Fury causes the Red Mech closer to the center to go from a displayed HP of 1 to 2. What the heck? 19:52 ...well, damn. My napkin math wasn't enough to account for the knock-on effects of having a reduced economy, Infantry that can't cross Mountains, and the fact that the reduced movement meant that Olaf could pick his engagements *very* favorably. Well played to both!
The reason Poland opened with an APC on the north side instead of the south side is because he *_NEEDS_* an APC to capture the airport. Infantry can't cross the mountains locking it in without an APC. Like, I guess he could do it with a mech too, but...
Any news on your version of AW mangs? AWBW is kind of worn out now. Also I think Olaf might have a good shot due to the high early game tempo of snow, time will tell. Still doubt since Hachi power is just too broken with frontline megatanks even.
is this game you refered a couple years ago you said it was a massacre? i did tried to look it up in your old streams but i couldnt find it, it was a fun match to watch, l ike your commentary
Hey @mangs, I havnt seen your content before or this game. For some reason youtube reccomended it and ive enjoyed watching your videos over the past few days. How do I get this game and play with the community?
My guess is Olaf wins 2/3 games with this ruleset. I think he wins the capture game too hard and Hachi has to find ways to claw himself back. If Olaf plays it careful and take good engagements and rotates around the map smart, he can just outproduce (I know crazy) Hachi in quality of army (relying on his mobility advantage to win with a smaller amount of units).
Now we need to see how quickly Sonja rockets to Tier 0 when she has her Counter Break effect as a day-to-day. No extra sight, no 10% stats, just the Fire Emblem Vantage effect where she attacks first even on your turn. I'd pay good Likes to see that :D
You're comparing her having a permanent Super to Olaf having permanent Power. I think any global damage CO would be the top tiers. Hawke could even potentially heal off the damage if he plays passive
@@whichDude I am, yes. Though technically only a piece of her super. I wasn't making any sort of balance claim or expecting it to be fair, I just really wanna see how broken that particular effect is. Plus it'd be nice to see Sonja off the bottom tier, if only for a minute.
I think Kanbei beats permanent counter break Sonja. She might not even be T0; I'm unsure how the matchup of her vs. Von Bolt would go.
@@Tzizenorec Yeah, this is not the first time I've considered this, and it seems like defense and distance are the two solid counters to her. Kanbei and Grit probably some of the strongest, at least in terms of directly hard-countering the ability. But some are just so strong they could probably overwhelm her regardless.
1. Add 8+1 (1 for the power itself) cOm towers to one side
2. Pick Grimm for that side
3. Never use powers
Perma-super Grimm (misses the 10% defence, but oh well)
5+1 instead for perma-power
Which tier would he be then?
Advance wars 2 sturm: look what he needs to mimic a fraction of my power!
Olaf. The permanent mobility advantage is massive, and much like Sturm vs Hachi should win the day with enough aggression even if Olaf lacks attack and defense boosts.
Gotta say. Wasn't expecting it to be THAT lopsided. Oof!
If you think about it, this literally is just sturm but slightly less broken. No stat buffs or perfect terrain movement, but your opponent can't move at all. Even then, sturms perfect movement made him disgusting at easily contesting usually safe city captures, so really it's only the stat buffs that are majorly different.. That movement advantage leads to an immediate income lead, and that is just too much of an advantage in the early game when funds are so low. Getting even 5k extra income that early is ridiculous, let alone anything over 10k. In a somewhat ironic way, olaf prevents hachi from snowballing, by literally preventing the snowball from being made. Which I dunno how since it's snowing. Probably the snow froze over and is mixed with ice and incredibly heavy. That stuff is a PAIN to shovel, so most likely that.
In Snow Olafs attack is on par with Sturms, as he gets a flat +20 attack to all units.
@@MrxD-cg5xs That's only in Dual Strike if memory serves. And since Snow was pretty heavily nerfed to not increase movement costs, it's honestly not that much of a buff.
@@NeoTiamat thats possible, yeah. Tbh I haven’t played AW 1 or 2 in a while, I probably just misremembered. I thought that was a thing in those games too.
As for DS, yeah snow is significantly weaker than before, but Olaf does get 2 turns of snow out of his Blizzard now, which is kind of broken in its own right.
Snow is less impactful, but a good Olaf can keep it up almost the entire match, consistently buffing his own army.
"Olaf just needs to sit back and chill"
Olaf: I give you charge of 200% to movement.
Hachi: Hey selling is my business
MANGS! YOU ARE BLOCKING THE AIRPORT!
I think Olaf has the advantage. Double movement over your opponent is massive. The mobility advantage counteracts Hachi's forward deployment on SCOP, and the increased capture speed counteracts Hachi's discounts, at least early to mid game. If Hachi survives until the late game, however, I believe he can take back the advantage.
Added near the start: I also thought Olaf has a big advantage with indirects, but I didn't see the infantry vs mountains issue before you mentioned it.
Yup, as expected. The indirect advantage didn't come into play in the end, the movement advantage was enough.
With AWDS snow, on the other hand, Hachi would have crushed Olaf. Double fuel expenditure just doesn't have the same impact; if any, considering there aren't that many air units on this map (and no ships).
Really interesting match!
With AWDS Snow in mind we also have to consider that Olaf wouldve have had a constant 20% Attack over Hachi , which alongside Global damage it wouldve been a worthy foe for Hachi
AWDS Olaf in mind*
The big question here is which snow rules we are talking about.
In AW:DS, Hachi would dominate this battle, but in AW2 Olaf dominates for the same reason why Sturm is considered broken: he completely breaks the map. While Sturm creates paths and capture chains, Olaf denies them. He is doing the inverse of what Sturm does, but it has the same effect.
Movement based day to day abilities are broken.
Loving the game commentaries! Keep em coming egg man!
2:35 - Normally my prediction would be that Olaf's forces will snowball (natch) and create an early lead that Hachi cannot overcome, but there are A LOT of roads on this map. Unless Olaf wins before the first SCOP, Hachi takes it.
P.S. - Any chance you'll take a look at Metal Slug Tactics?
By turn 13, Olaf is 10k ahead and has overmatched Hachi. Two things I didn't consider: the mountain range preventing front-shifting for Hachi, and the global damage from Olaf negating a good deal of the discount once SCOPs start popping. Permafrost Olaf is scary, he'd make a great boss fight for an "Advance Wars Zero" romhack.
Hoping for Metal Slug Tactics. It feels up his alley.
Permafrost Olaf is my prediction for the winner!
Edit: My prediction was spot on. Snow slowed down Hachi's economy, not to mention the massive repair bill on the units built from Merchant Union that were damaged by Winter Fury. Bad economy and super defense opponents (Kanbei and 2 tower Javier) are not fun things for Hachi.
I concur
Edit: mangs heart me instead
This is what you get for invading Russia in the winter
I'm so happy I found this channel! Loved this game as a kid, and your casting is amazing for me as a newbie to the competitive scene. Keep it up dude!
Turns out Olaf is the true "snowball" CO.
Spoilers:
Poland should've won. If history taught us something, is that you should never invade Poland in winter season.
You're thinking of Russia, silly
I may be stupid @@quuirrel19_-sz9pj
@@quuirrel19_-sz9pj Learn more about Warsaw, friend.
*Hachi going Black Friday Shopping be like:*
MANG!!!! THE AIRPORT!!!! MANG!!!!
What's an airport?
Thank you google translate, I can now tell that you were trying to say: CARRY!!!! THE AIRPORT!!!! CARRY!!!!
@@notZabami Exactly.
@@YourFunkiness They look like a hairy right arm. As to their actual function, I'm not sure.
Snow turns treads into tires, turns infantry into treads, and pops tires.
so happy to see AW content back in the algorithm
Any CO with access to their normal power every turn is unbeatable. If Added got an extra move every turn, if Andy got +2 HP every turn, they beat any CO.
It would be quite a fun challenge to try to beat permaluck Nell. Can you make that happen?
Jugger, Flak, and Sonja all seem pretty beatable with permanent power up time. Jugger and Flak fire power boost even with good rolls is still just shrugged off by monsters like Kanbei. Sonja power only grants 1 vision.
Eagle also seems pretty tame if going by 2 power. His air gets extra 20% firepower, but Sensei copters will still hit harder. And he can jam the field with infantry to get AA to take out fighters
Lightning Drive for every turn sounds devastating. How could you ever beat those +5% defense copters?
Rachel with her normal power as D2D isn't scary either
Old man VS Frostbite, who will win? Probably the frostbite
Huh, Guess I was right. Also MaNgS YoU ArE CoVeRiNg ThE AiRpOrT
On the lore discussion, I thought it was Grit that was an Orange Star CO, not Olaf.
Still interesting prequel concept.
You're right, Grit was around the same time as Max and Nell
GBA AW1 says that Olaf was an Orange Star CO who turned traitor for Blue Moon. AW2 says he was born and raised in Blue Moon.
My personal headcanon is that since Orange Star and Blue Moon have a long history of tit-for-tat land battles, Olaf was probably born in Blue Moon territory that Orange Star later conquered. And Olaf joined the Orange Star military fully intending to betray them and return the territory to Blue Moon. But his success went to his head and he thought he could completely wipe out Orange Star.
According to the TvTropes page, Olaf left for Blue Moon and Grit followed due to a disagreement with Max. They where both Orange Star.
16:02 starting your turn on day 14 with less than 4K funds has got to be demoralizing. Makes WF even better against Hachi.
15:27 "so many aids, aids everywhere"
Snow is a busted weather
I’m predicting that since Olaf has access to better air units and will have a capture advantage just will let him snow ball faster then hachi
Lets go
Imo the problem is that the plains are on the strong side which means it drastically increases reinforcement time for Hatchi which means his strong side's threat potential is greatly limited as if he pushes too far with tanks for example, he can't cover them with reinforcement tanks from the bases unless he does a permanent tank stream which isn't economically viable even for hatchi.
Also Hatchi will lose big value against Winter fury simply because he'll need to drag his units to cities for repairs or have to deal with a permanent firepower and defense debuff (from his units being damaged).
Also, even as hatchi, there is so much you can do before being too far behind economically where even getting a -50% cost on units isn't enough to keep up.
Also Winter Fury will actually drain a LOT of Hatchi's funds since his repairs happen the day AFTER he pops his power or SCOP which means he repairs units with his usual 10% decrease instead of 50.
That's no contest, Olaf takes this hands down because he has practically TWO CO powers permanently on.
1) The snow-based movement advantage.
2) Pseudo gold rush or even eventually barter from the early economic advantage.
I don't see anyone besides maybe AW2 Sturm putting up a fight against perma-snow Olaf.
I don't think that Sturm(being weak to snow) would do much better in this situation, as he would have a worse economy and charging his SCOP would take way too long to help him. Raw stats can only take you so far when your oponent is snowballing like crazy.
@@xelius2683 "Weak to snow" is relative, he "only" loses his movement advantage compared to regular COs bringing him down to normal, but he still has his insane +20/20 stats.
I'm mostly assuming that he's the only CO that could fight from the economic disadvantage and not instantly crumble due to his def bonus.
But yes, at best, it would be an uphill battle for him.
Im surprised permanent snow olaf isnt called "Snolaf".
I think Olaf will have the initial advantage, but Hachi will pull through eventually because Merchant Union bringing units straight to the fight makes movement less important.
Reinforcing the front lines can be hard when it takes your army a minute to get there, and your oppent knows to block your cities. I can't see any CO beating Olaf in permanent snow
This gives me a great idea on COs battle each other with permanent CO power every turn
Glad I can play some of these maps, including this one, in AW DS Royal. I just practice.
This goes to show how strong mobility is
Makes sense that a co who specializes in selling and logistics would be countered by a permanent blizzard.
Permasnow Olaf is stronger than any other CO
I'm predicting an Olaf dub simply because of all of the mountains - non-Olaf, non-boosted infantry can't cross them without transport help, so Hachi is going to have a nightmare of a time getting reinforcements to the front lines, whereas Olaf can reinforce his front lines no problem.
Edit: Yep, and funnily enough, you brought up the exact same points about mountains that I did. Crazy how gimped movement can hobble even the most busted of COs.
Also, as an addendum: I don't give much stock to the AW1 backstory, as it really gives the impression of being cobbled together on the fly, before Intelligent Systems had much of a plan for the series in general. Case in point: according to AW1, Olaf defected to Blue Moon, yet in AW2, it's revealed that Olaf was born and raised in Blue Moon, directly contradicting AW1. All in all, I personally consider AW1 to be mostly non-canon, with the story of Wars World officially beginning in AW2.
Can a frozen egg beat the snow ?
Very interesting question and scenario!
Olaf will have a massive ground game and capture game, tons of movement to play with and global damage. Hachi has his "spam units on command on cities" absolute brokenness. I honestly think Santa olaf would win because of one single thing: unit count.
Unit count is the most important thing in this game, over any other metric. And olaf's early lead will lead to massive unit count over hachi at the start. hachi may be able to deploy tons of units for cheap every once in a while, and I admit the first merchant union will hurt, but Olaf wins on a rush and becaus eof his global damage, he can really punish any attempt at amassing units. It's about Hachi's first mercahnt union, I think: if he can deliver a decisive blow then he'll win, otherwise he's done. I'd say Sensei also would have tons of trouble, and it's because boths ensei and hachi depend on cities for their abiltiies.
I assume Olaf would win cause global damage is great on mid sized+ maps and the movement debuff
There is no way Hachi can beat this Olaf, he’s going to be so behind after the capture phase and can’t front shift
Missed opportunity to call him Snowlaf
My best guess as to go up against Hachi's easy to build army should be someone with global damage such as Drake or Hawke, probably Drake since not only does damage the opponent but also halves fuel or something like that.
16:53 I'm sure someone out there could do a rom hack of advance wars 2 and just remake it from the ground up, making up a new story for the previous characters and go from there. Would be cool to see, which I could do it myself.
There's a lot of factors to consider, such as just how slowed down Hachi will be, countered by the map having quite the highway which negates some of that, Olaf's Super hitting SO MANY units and probably being a good counter if Hachi pops his first... so it's hard to say for sure, but I'll go with Olaf, especially if he plays aggressively enough which I feel he should on non-fog.
Yup, aggro Olaf wins in the end. Thought it would be a bit closer though, feels like Hachi never quite got an edge anywhere.
There's only one way to stop permafrost Olaf
Perform a ritual and summon Caulder into AWBW
🛡🛡🛡🛡Spoiler Shield🛡🛡🛡🛡
Permafrost Olaf seems like extreme value against Hachi. He gets more units, but Olaf gets more Damage. Also being able to front switch and take advantage of the 8hp enemies for wall breaks seems good.
... spoiler
Turns out movement was the decider.
I'll take the free kick to the balls and admit I guessed wrong.
Olaf surely has this game! Thanks for the videos dude, always a delight to witness
Along with the 2hp global damage, Olaf also inflicted a massive cost repair fees for all those city units. Hachi didn't have the funds to repair his Neotank and could barely deploy 3 infantry that turn.
On a map with this many roads, probably.
Another really nasty issue is that that movement advantage meant killmefirst's Battle Copters had basically nothing to fear ever and could harass with impunity, since the opposing anti-airs couldn't match their speed anyway and it was never a hassle to pick off any advancing ones with another unit.
15:58 Something you didn't mention that felt important, is that Olaf using Winter Fury after Hachi's Merchant Union DECIMATED Hachi with repair costs, where he started the round with less than 4000, and didn't even have enough for his Neotank to get repaired 💀
I would say Olaf. Double movement over your opponent for the whole match is insanely valuable. It's even better than Strum's day to day movement abilities.
If the Advance Wars By Web has taken the traits of the second game, snow does effectively turn the plains into a tile with a movement cost of 2 for threads.
On the other hand, a plain tile with rain is just as bad for threaded units but forest see the movement cost increased, to slow down a Tank to 2 spaces (I can't remember if it's a movement cost of 3 or 4) .
I don't have the first game to see if a forest tile with snow is like the second game or is just as bad as it is with rain.
I'm learning so much watching here
2:35 - I think Olaf takes it, with the movement advantage he can shut down Hachi's opening to gain a great funds lead and finish Hachi before he gets a chance to pop Merchant Union. Even if Hachi manages to use it Olaf can front switch so much more effectively and constantly be pestering Hachi's properties
I predict Olaf honestly. As much as Hachi's SCOP is broken, his units will struggle to move at all in the snow, while Olaf gets a massive movement advantage. This is why the only day to days that give movement bonuses affect transports specifically. Having it on all your units is straight up broken, especially as much of an advantage as you get with Olaf in permanent snow.
Yup, I had it right. Movement really just is that important. I didn't think it'd be such a massive difference between the two, but it makes sense. With how hindered Hachi's movement is here, he fell behind in the capture game really fast, and once the income difference starts becoming bigger, it stacks and gets felt hard the longer the match goes on. Hachi's powers mean nothing when his opponent has like almost twice as much income as him.
Well Hatchi should have watched Game of Thrones. He would have known. "Winter is Coming!" :D
I say that slowing early economy will give Olaf the win but let’s see if I am correct.
I was right too much economic difference
Despite the blizzard conditions, Mangs defiantly eggs an airport.
I think that the snow slowing down Hachi's capture game will be the major clinching factor.
Very interesting! Knew that Olaf would win!
Olaf. Mobility is king for capture phase and front-switching.
Predicting Olaf.
This reminded me of your video of Olaf beating Hawke. Besides the global damage snow is just a direct impediment. I think that Hawke is above him simply for his day to day more than his powers. If Olaf had a similar boost as him just only active during snow that would be enough to push him up
2:45 Why is the CO card on the left say hachi's power is 4-2 put his CO card on the right say his power is 3-2?
after watching this video I'll continue watching your ironman fe6 season 2.
This matchup is literally just hachi vs sturm, but sturm's army got a cold removing their 20/20 extra stats, as well as magically forgetting how to drive through forests and stuff. BUT, they remembered to put winter tires on this time, while everyone else continues to use all season tires.
It shows that movement is more important than anything else.
Olaf will rule over the world when nuclear Winter comes
I do hope to see more players to use transport units as they are very rarely built. They are quite useful in both rain and snow for infantries/mechs. It would make the early game a bit interesting in how their opponents and each other will react whenever they use transport to rush a city.
Hachi no doubt
Drake vs Olaf random weather?
I subscribe to the belief that Olaf led a coup in Orange Star that eventually leads to the formation of Blue Moon. It's now he can he both a defector and patriotic.
I don't think Olaf ever reached "sit back and chill" levels. Considering Hachi's power, to "sit back and chill" against Hachi, you need more than _twice_ his income.
Olaf clearly had the win, but he had to keep pushing. Allowing Hachi the freedom to bank funds would have been a mistake.
This matchup honestly feels like a counterpick. Hachi is a CO that needs a strong capture phase to start his snowball, and global damage feels like one of the better supers you can have against someone who wants to spam so many units. Hachi never gets the chance to show why he's broken.
I think the hachi tech advantage will get there
Edit : 😮
My prediction: Because the video is only 20-minutes long, Olaf wins. Hachi is a snowball commander, whereas the longer the match goes on the stronger he gets. However, he is weaker in the early game compared to some other COs. The snow will slow down Hachi's early-game economy enough that the Olaf player will have too great an advantage for Hachi to overcome.
Something that came to mind watching this video (as an idea since I don't know how possible to recreate it is) is, how would a competitive game could develop if every player could start with their Super Power right on the first day (not permanent, only once). The strategy for some COs would be interesting to see
Alternative title: "Santa (Olaf) violently stops an Elf (Hachi) worker's union strike"
I definitely feel like Olaf will win, but we'll see
Napkin math theorizing:
So Hachi essentially has half move BUT frequently half-price units. Will likely have slightly fewer properties due to Olaf's unrestricted movement.
Olaf essentially doesn't have a normal power, and due to Hachi's *value* reduction, his meter will take longer to fill. However, his SCOP is still a big swing when he gets it.
I think Hachi still has a very slight edge due to unit count & reinforcement shenanigans, but ONLY IF I'm remembering correctly that snow doesn't affect Roads(/Shoals)
My money is on Hachi, but I would *not* bet a lot on that prediction.
Glad I was right about the zero-star terrain movement, phew
15:23 After about 3-4 frames here, Winter Fury causes the Red Mech closer to the center to go from a displayed HP of 1 to 2. What the heck?
19:52 ...well, damn. My napkin math wasn't enough to account for the knock-on effects of having a reduced economy, Infantry that can't cross Mountains, and the fact that the reduced movement meant that Olaf could pick his engagements *very* favorably.
Well played to both!
Hey! What a banger idea! I love it. Great job dredging new life and fun ideas from our humble AWBW. Our love legit keeps this content afloat. ✌🏾❤️👾
The reason Poland opened with an APC on the north side instead of the south side is because he *_NEEDS_* an APC to capture the airport. Infantry can't cross the mountains locking it in without an APC.
Like, I guess he could do it with a mech too, but...
My prediction is Olaf wins this one, also thanks for the great content mangs
So it literally takes the earth itself to rise up against Hachi to beat him.
Any news on your version of AW mangs? AWBW is kind of worn out now.
Also I think Olaf might have a good shot due to the high early game tempo of snow, time will tell. Still doubt since Hachi power is just too broken with frontline megatanks even.
2:50 My prediction Gotta be Olaf for the Snow buff, unless Hachi drowns him out in units.
Spoilers
Olaf Babeeeeeeeee
is this game you refered a couple years ago you said it was a massacre? i did tried to look it up in your old streams but i couldnt find it, it was a fun match to watch, l ike your commentary
Bizarre experiments like this are super fun to watch although this one was pretty obvious : D
Keep 'em coming
Guessing Olaf wins this due to sheer movement alone, and amazing movement is one of the features that makes sturm such a threat.
By a landslide, or should it be Avalanche? The winter claims another.
YEAH BUDDDYYYYYY! loving all the AWBW content!
If i recall correctly Mangs, olaf was not from orange star, it was grit who left Orange stat for blue moon before the first aw
Hey @mangs, I havnt seen your content before or this game. For some reason youtube reccomended it and ive enjoyed watching your videos over the past few days. How do I get this game and play with the community?
I guess movement really is the best stat
I imagine Hachi was the leader first, then Olaf took over when he retired. Olaf then left, leaving Nell to take his place.
Sturn vs. perma Snow Olaf has be examined next.
At the very least, Sturn is the only CO, whose movement doesn't get crippled by snow.
Rain slows vehicles more than Snow does. Rain makes woods harder to traverse but snow doesn’t.
I'm not sure if anyone can really match Olaf in permafrost. MAYBE Sturm, but not without a lot of trouble.
My guess is Olaf wins 2/3 games with this ruleset. I think he wins the capture game too hard and Hachi has to find ways to claw himself back. If Olaf plays it careful and take good engagements and rotates around the map smart, he can just outproduce (I know crazy) Hachi in quality of army (relying on his mobility advantage to win with a smaller amount of units).
It was actually pretty much more onesided than I thought. But the game went pretty much as expected.
Olaf what a stereotypical name for a nordic man.