No real need to use water. Quenching doesn't actually do anything to brass. When I've done it I've used a power drill and a butane cooker and watch for the colour change from case mouth to should. Get wildly different coloration with different head stamps. Remington changes colour quickly and has a very definitive annealing mark. Lapua takes double the time to change colour and is a lot more pale.
+Beavis6940 I've heard that about Lapua! It would be interesting to see the differences in the metallurgy from the different manufacturers. You're quite right about the quenching doing nothing. I just use it to quickly halt the process once I've hit the desired temp. Sometime I should figure out the "cook" time without that sudden stop. At the very least it would shorten the dry time.
+The Social Regressive Hi, First of all many thanks for the great videos you post. Regarding the annealing you don't need to cool the brass. By quenching the brass you are actually working against your goal. The annealing takes place very fast withing 5-7 seconds so there is no harm to the rest of the brass. Then let it cool naturally. This is how factory brass is annealed whether is with gas or induction systems that give a lot of control. The key is timing and having a strong blue flame. Thanks again. The 7mm bullets rock!
Get your self some Tempilaq the neck must get too between 750-800 F, and the body can not exceed 450 F. You will have a hard time getting consistent neck tension with this method. Annealing by temp is the way to go
+Jeff Hunter I really should pick some of that up sometime. I've had good luck using this method so far, but a little extra precision sure wouldn't hurt.
I wouldn't dunk it in water, personally. At the temperatures you are operating at it probably won't do anything, but quickly cooling the metal in liquid (quenching) does make the metal harder, no matter the material. Like I said, at these temps you probably aren't hardening it at all, and brass may further reduce the quenching effect, but dunking it in water will harden it some.
+Wedelj I could see that. I had heard in the past that brass doesn't harden when quenched, but it seems like every metal does to some degree. Someday I'll try a shorter method with Tempilaq, like a commentor suggested.
The Social Regressive I'll be waiting for that video. You've put up some very informational stuff so far, and I'm excited to work my way through your library of uploads.
Saw a video with a cheap lyman lead dipper melting pot filled with annealing salts connected to a PID controller for good temp control. He got a 30ish dollar stand to sink into the pot. You just plunk the brass in, wait 5 seconds, pull it out, and dunk in water. Very consistent and very fast. Thats got to be the way to go if your gona do any brass in volume.
You're entering a whole new world of fun and frustration. Wildcatting sounds like a blast, but I haven't tried it yet for myself. My father-in-law has. The techniques listed here will get you most of the way, but you'll need special dies and you'll probably have to do some fire-forming.
After how many firings is it too late to start annealing? I have some twice fired brass that I wanted to do this on. Is it too late? Thanks in advance and great vid, as usual!
+Scooterider1 It's never too late! You can anneal at any point. Some guys anneal between each shot; some after a certain number of firings. It's always going to improve the brass. If you're shooting a semiauto rifle it's best to anneal often, since you're having to work the brass a lot. If you're neck-sizing for a bolt-action rifle typically you can go anywhere up to ten shots through a case before needing to anneal. It all depends upon how much work your brass is getting.
Scooterider1 You're welcome! Here are the things to watch for as your brass ages. Eventually you'll have to retire it. First, make sure your primer pockets remain nice and tight. Chuck any brass that allows a primer to seat too easily. At some point, use a bent wire, like a paperclip, to feel the inside of the case body. If you feel a "catch" or dip in the lower third, that means the brass is thinning and you're heading toward a case head separation. Sometimes this will also manifest on the outside of the case as a polished ring. Before you run into either of these, though, you'll probably just split a neck. Neck splits aren't dangerous (just throw out the brass), but if the brass ruptures elsewhere, that IS scary.
that's not what annealing is, I'm not saying you are wrong, but in metallurgy that would be tempering. But hey, if everybody else calls it that, you are fine I guess, the point of a word is to get across a message, and most reloading people will know exactly what you mean by that, however, if I had no vision and only words, I would assume you meant taking the brass to the most soft it could possibly be.
@@noctismortis7349 Thanks, Sparky! Even though I'm dunking the hot metal into water, brass doesn't really temper like steel does. The sudden cooling just stops the process, and it only barely starts to harden the metal.
@@SocialRegressive you are thinking of hardening. Tempering is drawing back the hardness after the metal is in a hardened/semi hardened state (such as brass after being fired as a casing). This is done by heating the metal, but not hot enough to make it easily pliable, and quickly cooling it when it gets to a point of optimum hardness. Knives are hardened, then tempered, otherwise they will shatter, or if not hardened, they won't hold an edge. It's a common misconception. Annealing is heating up the brass and letting it cool very slowly, possibly even days, through the use of some sort of refractory material, after heating it hot enough to make it not hold it's previous hardness. I know this is done differently with different metals, for brass you just have to heat it up pretty hot and dunk it in water or oil or something, and to temper it you heat it up a little bit and dunk it, like you did. Like I said, if reloaders call it annealing, than that is what it is called when referring to reloading.
+Casey Ellis I have annealed my .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases. Even straight-walled cases get a lot of work, especially if you are flaring the neck to ease bullet seating. Annealing will help increase the life of the brass. Beware over-annealing, though. I ruined a bunch of .357 Magnum cases by going too far.
Listen to this guy, and you WILL get a case failure when firing one day. Sorry, but brass does NOT have eternal life. It eventually flows out to the point to where the case body itself has thinned out, and can no longer be counted on to safely contain chamber pressures. Yes, proper annealing techniques can extend the useful life of your cases, but not indefinitely like is claimed here.
+papawx3 It's hyperbole. I keep track of how many firings and annealings I have on my brass, and I use a feeler to check for rings near the head as the reload counts rise. I don't just assume that my brass has infinite life. I've never had a case head separation; split necks usually send my older brass to the scrap heap. Thanks for commenting, though! Some viewers might assume a more literal interpretation.
One thing to note, if you see an orange flame start to come from the brass, it's the zinc burning off.
+Villamor78 That's good to know! Things have definitely gone too far at that point!
+Villamor78 Exactly! That is too much. Annealing happens very fast.
No real need to use water. Quenching doesn't actually do anything to brass. When I've done it I've used a power drill and a butane cooker and watch for the colour change from case mouth to should. Get wildly different coloration with different head stamps. Remington changes colour quickly and has a very definitive annealing mark. Lapua takes double the time to change colour and is a lot more pale.
+Beavis6940 I've heard that about Lapua! It would be interesting to see the differences in the metallurgy from the different manufacturers. You're quite right about the quenching doing nothing. I just use it to quickly halt the process once I've hit the desired temp. Sometime I should figure out the "cook" time without that sudden stop. At the very least it would shorten the dry time.
+The Social Regressive Hi, First of all many thanks for the great videos you post. Regarding the annealing you don't need to cool the brass. By quenching the brass you are actually working against your goal. The annealing takes place very fast withing 5-7 seconds so there is no harm to the rest of the brass. Then let it cool naturally. This is how factory brass is annealed whether is with gas or induction systems that give a lot of control. The key is timing and having a strong blue flame. Thanks again. The 7mm bullets rock!
nyshenaniguns
That's good to know. I'll give it a test next time. Thanks, man!
Get your self some Tempilaq the neck must get too between 750-800 F, and the body can not exceed 450 F. You will have a hard time getting consistent neck tension with this method. Annealing by temp is the way to go
+Jeff Hunter I really should pick some of that up sometime. I've had good luck using this method so far, but a little extra precision sure wouldn't hurt.
I wouldn't dunk it in water, personally. At the temperatures you are operating at it probably won't do anything, but quickly cooling the metal in liquid (quenching) does make the metal harder, no matter the material. Like I said, at these temps you probably aren't hardening it at all, and brass may further reduce the quenching effect, but dunking it in water will harden it some.
+Wedelj I could see that. I had heard in the past that brass doesn't harden when quenched, but it seems like every metal does to some degree. Someday I'll try a shorter method with Tempilaq, like a commentor suggested.
The Social Regressive I'll be waiting for that video. You've put up some very informational stuff so far, and I'm excited to work my way through your library of uploads.
+Wedelj I just finished the pillar bedding yesterday. The final product is in sight!
Saw a video with a cheap lyman lead dipper melting pot filled with annealing salts connected to a PID controller for good temp control. He got a 30ish dollar stand to sink into the pot. You just plunk the brass in, wait 5 seconds, pull it out, and dunk in water. Very consistent and very fast. Thats got to be the way to go if your gona do any brass in volume.
Do you outside neck turn your brass?
+Beavis6940 I've been using a Forster handheld neck turner. It tires the hands. Someday I'll buy a larger device.
What if I want to create my own ammo? For instance: necking down 7.62x39 to accept a 4.85mm bullet.
You're entering a whole new world of fun and frustration. Wildcatting sounds like a blast, but I haven't tried it yet for myself. My father-in-law has. The techniques listed here will get you most of the way, but you'll need special dies and you'll probably have to do some fire-forming.
After how many firings is it too late to start annealing? I have some twice fired brass that I wanted to do this on. Is it too late? Thanks in advance and great vid, as usual!
Oh, and does this need to be done before or after case prep? Thanks bro.
+Scooterider1 It's never too late! You can anneal at any point. Some guys anneal between each shot; some after a certain number of firings. It's always going to improve the brass. If you're shooting a semiauto rifle it's best to anneal often, since you're having to work the brass a lot. If you're neck-sizing for a bolt-action rifle typically you can go anywhere up to ten shots through a case before needing to anneal. It all depends upon how much work your brass is getting.
+Scooterider1 This should be done before case prep to make the brass soft for all the work it's about to get.
+The Social Regressive great info. Thank you sir!
Scooterider1
You're welcome! Here are the things to watch for as your brass ages. Eventually you'll have to retire it. First, make sure your primer pockets remain nice and tight. Chuck any brass that allows a primer to seat too easily. At some point, use a bent wire, like a paperclip, to feel the inside of the case body. If you feel a "catch" or dip in the lower third, that means the brass is thinning and you're heading toward a case head separation. Sometimes this will also manifest on the outside of the case as a polished ring. Before you run into either of these, though, you'll probably just split a neck. Neck splits aren't dangerous (just throw out the brass), but if the brass ruptures elsewhere, that IS scary.
I think I'd just buy some commercial 7mm-08 brass. Too much work and time.
Wise decision!
Nothing wrong with that, but you have to admit that understanding how to manipulate brass and then getting it to work safely is pretty satisfying.
Till you can’t find 7-08 anywhere cause the world lost its mind
Most of the kids in my grade shoot a 7mm-08 or 243 I use a 7mm rem mag
So why not use a laser thermometer?
That should work!
that's not what annealing is, I'm not saying you are wrong, but in metallurgy that would be tempering. But hey, if everybody else calls it that, you are fine I guess, the point of a word is to get across a message, and most reloading people will know exactly what you mean by that, however, if I had no vision and only words, I would assume you meant taking the brass to the most soft it could possibly be.
oh nice vid btw
@@noctismortis7349 Thanks, Sparky! Even though I'm dunking the hot metal into water, brass doesn't really temper like steel does. The sudden cooling just stops the process, and it only barely starts to harden the metal.
@@SocialRegressive you are thinking of hardening. Tempering is drawing back the hardness after the metal is in a hardened/semi hardened state (such as brass after being fired as a casing). This is done by heating the metal, but not hot enough to make it easily pliable, and quickly cooling it when it gets to a point of optimum hardness. Knives are hardened, then tempered, otherwise they will shatter, or if not hardened, they won't hold an edge. It's a common misconception. Annealing is heating up the brass and letting it cool very slowly, possibly even days, through the use of some sort of refractory material, after heating it hot enough to make it not hold it's previous hardness. I know this is done differently with different metals, for brass you just have to heat it up pretty hot and dunk it in water or oil or something, and to temper it you heat it up a little bit and dunk it, like you did. Like I said, if reloaders call it annealing, than that is what it is called when referring to reloading.
So for the essay lol
Is there any need to anneal brass with out a neck? I'm an avid 45-70 shooter and reloaded, would annealing still benefit me?
+Casey Ellis I have annealed my .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases. Even straight-walled cases get a lot of work, especially if you are flaring the neck to ease bullet seating. Annealing will help increase the life of the brass. Beware over-annealing, though. I ruined a bunch of .357 Magnum cases by going too far.
Listen to this guy, and you WILL get a case failure when firing one day. Sorry, but brass does NOT have eternal life. It eventually flows out to the point to where the case body itself has thinned out, and can no longer be counted on to safely contain chamber pressures. Yes, proper annealing techniques can extend the useful life of your cases, but not indefinitely like is claimed here.
+papawx3 It's hyperbole. I keep track of how many firings and annealings I have on my brass, and I use a feeler to check for rings near the head as the reload counts rise. I don't just assume that my brass has infinite life. I've never had a case head separation; split necks usually send my older brass to the scrap heap. Thanks for commenting, though! Some viewers might assume a more literal interpretation.
there are too many rifle cartridges in the world
Too many? Or too few...? :P It does get difficult to pick one. There are so many that are reeeeally similar.
I go the other way with it
There are a bunch ways, and im probably too protective of the webbing. Plenty of folks do this job without water.