Regarding the second Marty, the first Marty grew up hearing about how George was run over by a car and Lorraine felt sympathy for him. Original Marty changed this so second Marty may have grown up with the story that some kid got run over by Lorraine's dad and helped Lorraine and George to find each other. So when second Marty sees George in the tree, he hides and waits for this mysterious kid to appear. George falls out of the tree, the mysterious kid isn't there to push him out of the way and George is run over, thus essentially creating a new timeline that's very much like the original timeline, with Lorraine feeling sorry for George. Second Marty would have told Doc what happened and Doc would realise that the future could change but since George and Lorraine would be together due to Lorraine feeling sorry for George, the kids would all still be born and there'd be nothing for second Marty to do except hang around with Doc until he's ready to go home. So essentially, the original Marty goes from having loser parents and a mediocre existence (albeit with a hot girlfriend) to having confident parents and a good life while the second Marty goes from having confident parents and a good life to having loser parents and a mediocre life.
Not true as that story would not have been told as George would never tell Lorraine that he was perving from a tree, as far as he is concerned noone knows so why tell them? Marty would still come across the peeping incident and would still see the car and make the take the same actions, he never went there because of the car, the car appeared and after the fact he realised it was that event not prior. Marty's knowledge of the event had nothing to do with his actions if anything if he had remembered prior it would stop him from saving his dad due to Doc's warnings and then they'd have a different way of working on getting George to 'Man up' so to speak without the whole his mom falling for her son thing.
BTTF can be viewed as a universe that has a two-dimensional time continuum. The first conventional time dimension is unidirectional like our own, but is subject to alteration by backward time travel events. The second "epochal" time dimension is also unidirectional, and records the evolution of the conventional timeline as it is altered by those time travel events. We can expect the conventional timeline is subject to continuous microscopic alteration by sub-atomic anti-particles which travel backwards in time. These alterations cause the timeline to spontaneously evolve along the epochal time dimension. When 1985 Marty time travels back to 1955, he creates a macroscopic discontinuity in the epochal time dimension, dramatically altering all subsequent evolution of the conventional timeline in the epochal time dimension. We can envision Doc's personal timeline evolving in epochal time in the same manner. Doc's initial attempts to create a time machine fail, and the conventional timeline remains unchanged. At some point in the evolution of the timeline, Doc succeeds, and the timeline is henceforth altered by 1985 Marty's trip back to 1955. Since the epochal time dimension is unidirectional, it is not possible to reverse the evolution of the conventional timeline and restore its previous unaltered state. It is only possible to make additional macroscopic changes to the timeline by subsequent trips into the past. In BTTF2, Biff's trip from 2015 back to 1955 causes Marty's altered timeline to evolve into the nightmare 1985 timeline. This prompts post-1985 Doc & Marty to make another trip back to 1955, and they force the timeline to evolve into something resembling Marty's first alteration of the timeline. Note however, that this is not a "restoration" of the timeline back to what it was at the end of the first BTTF movie. It is a third major alteration of the timeline, one that happens to produce similar personal histories as Marty's first alteration.
My theory is second marty actually starts a timeloop where he still finds his dad in the tree, gets run over by the car, and then this time realizes he is calvin, then does the same stuff as original marty for the rest of the film, then marty 3,4, etc have the same story as him creating a time loop
Before anyone rants in the comments, let us all agree that no matter the paradoxical implications, Back to the Future is still amazing and iconic and always will be
To be honest, I just thought this whole thing through in a lot of detail as well as compared to other things I realized about the movie in the past, and I don't think this movie will ever completely lineup. The fact that Marty changes the past will always cause problems that would pretty much destroy the timeline in some way or another. Especially considering that even if Doc does tell the new version of Marty to do exactly what the old Marty did and then got rid of him, it still wouldn't explain why the old Marty existed in the first place if the timeline is different if it replaced the old one. I don't think the two timelines can exist simultaneously either ,because then the old timeline would be lacking a Marty when he's in the new timeline So you're very right, it's best not to fight about it, because there doesn't seem to be an answer that fixes everything.
@@randomusername429 it doesn't matter anyway in real life because traveling back in time is impossible. If it was, it would create paradoxes which would destroy the universe. And because the universe isn't destroyed, it means those paradoxes never happened because no one ever traveled back in time because traveling back in time isn't possible. There's a slight chance that traveling forward in time may be possible if getting cyrogenically frozen could happen, but even that is a huge challenge to science because no one yet has figured out how to freeze a body in place without it running out of oxygen and dying. If no one or no animal has ever been able to be frozen in ice for extended time and then come out of it still alive, then the same issues to the body would be whether frozen cyrogenically or frozen in ice, whether frozen still in anything. And if that ever would become possible, there wouldn't be any of those paradoxes because there still would never be two of the same person alive at the exact same time if done the cyrogenically frozen way.
Actually, if new Marty went anywhere but the fifties, it would create either a paradox or a new dimension (pick your poison) because then there would be no Marty to repeat the actions of old Marty. It's confusing, but your past self must follow your exact path to achieve the universe you live in. Any deviation, and you never happened. When old Marty made the jump to the past, old doc was wearing the bullet proof vest; Marty just left too soon to see it. There is no old and new doc or Marty; they are both the same and act the same. They are the same person, so they make the same decisions in the same situations. This video sees time travel as a way of traveling between dimensions instead of just time periods.
+Rudy Poirier Back to the future 2 shows what happens when biff steals the delorean the result is an alternate history. so unfortunately cracked is right on this one
+Rudy Poirier New marty is a weak nerd, he didn't experience the same things old marty had to experience being independent,.. new marty was spoiled and secluded,.. doc sends him back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc prosedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enroles in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc prosedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enroles in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc prosedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enroles in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950
+inventor121 I hope you saw the deleted scenes from BTTF2; they are on the 2002 DVD release. After Biff returns the Delorean, you clearly see he is sick, breaking his cane, and staggering away. What you don't see is him couching by a house and slowly fade away. The commentary explains that Lorraine shot Biff in 1990, and therefore, Biff would not exist in 2015. The scene was cut because test screenings proved people did not know why Biff would disappear. Rudy is right on this one. Marty did not severely alter the timeline as drastically as Biff. Biff changed the timeline for his own benefit. Marty merely tried to restore the timeline to original by manipulating what was already supposed to happen.
+fireyf How was Marty able to talk to his father after he saved him from being hit by a car? Remember, that's how Lorraine fell in love with him. The prevention should have made Marty unable to return to a future where he would not exist...
ki11bunny *there would be a glowing light* It's GeneralDerp for the future! In the future they brought me back to life! I'm here to tell you NOT to think about Time trav- *himself and everyone thinks on them and their head explodes* D: *Jesus swoops down* Hmm, If i travel back in time- * Head explodes*
well no since the loop ends, it is more like a time scenic route, it's the Ocarina of Time: Song of Storms paradox, Oot Link needed the Song of Storms to progress but didn't even know about it let alone had it, so he eventually left Hyrule in defeat and while wandering in the lost woods ended up in Termina and stopped the moon from falling. During that adventure he learned the Song of Storms from... Flat? or was it Sharp? well anyway the composer brother's of that version of Hyrule's ghosts and when he returned to Hyrule after the child timeline of OoT but before the Adult timeline he played it in chagrin in the windmill and created a split in time where he Schrödinger catted the song, since the past him in the future both had it and didn't. So Navi had to recreate the trip into Termina in the Child timeline to stop time from fracturing more than Zelda's three timelines. Another perfect example is the loop d loop in Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate zero which required his travel into the B timeline so that he could bring the active timeline into the "Steins;Gate" timeline and at the same time also required him to not save Kurisu in Timeline A and later make a Physical time machine to go back and save her since a physical Time machine was necesary to even be able to change Kurisu's death in the first place. time loops are more like terminator, terminator only exists because of the attempt to kill the people that could stop the terminators.... they are full on paradoxical, no start or end.
There's no plot hole here guys, think about coherence and predestination. Doc befriended "new Marty" so he can send him back to '55, so there's a marty that can return to '85 and become "new marty".No matter how you look at it, no marty is lost, an the only time there are 2 marty's is a brief period when new marty comes back and sees old marty leave for '55,Continuity is fully preserved, except for the minor changes in the timeline, with the family being rich and shit
+Padurariu Catalin New marty is a weak nerd, he didn't experience the same things old marty had to experience being independent,.. new marty was spoiled and secluded,.. doc sends him back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc precedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enrolls in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son of a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty meets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc precedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enrolls in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son of a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc precedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enrolls in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950
So therefore in 1955, there would be Original Marty doing everything we saw in Movie 1, Movie 2 Marty (wearing the hat & looking for the sports book) and also New Marty hiding from the other two Martys. More likely Doc sent New Marty to 1890 so original Doc can build the flying time machine that appeared mysteriously at the end of third movie.
Monkey Magic I think new marty went back to 1950 and got plastic surgery and was renamed George mcfly and doc enrolled him into high school, where he meets his wife ellane and later on gives birth to himself.
+Monkey Magic There is no "new Marty". In the second movie, a later version goes back to 1955 and keeps a low profile so his original self doesn't see him. Even if Marty had become 'different' due to an improved family situation, there would still just be the one that got to the past escaping the Libyans along with his later self chasing after the almanac. The Marty you see going to the 50s at the end of the first movie is the same Marty as the one watching from the mall sign, only they're about a week apart (even though they're both calling October 26, 1985 their home time).
I just figured that new Marty went back and followed the events as old Marty had. That's why, when old Marty goes back the the 50's again, he has to avoid himself there as well. Then New Marty goes back to the 80's and old Marty does his thing.
That's exactly what I tought. I mean, if you send new Marty to his death, who is gonna fix old Marty's timeline? They have to continiously fix eachother's timelines on an infinite loop in orther for them to survive. It's what I would call a fixed point in time.
But it can't be an exact replicated loop because they displayed in the movies that tampering with events of history cause changes in the future, therefore it's impossible for Marty to go back and do the exact same thing because the Marty of that timeline doesn't need to do any of it because it's already been done by old Marty.
TheSuperKing OfAnime There is the theory of Fixed points in Time that says that however you mingle with the past, the moment in the future you came from can't be changed. So, even tho the New Marty is, well, a new Marty with a new personality and all that, what ever it is he does when going back to the past doesn't matter, as going back to the future is a fixed point in time, creating the infinite loop. Or, maybe, Marty's personality is a fixed point in time. At the same time, some people say that the time machine itself gives Marty the ability to retein his memories, placing him in a "out of time" state due to traveling inside it (OUTATIME is also written on the back of the car in the first movie).
***** That still doesn't explain how new Marty and old Marty's personalities are so similar that the new McFly's just accepted his honest confusion about their circumstance as being ill, Doctor.
They are wrong, that wasn't a second marty, that was marty from the begining of the movie he traveled forward in time just before he traveled back in time watching himself travel back in time from the start. This is like a window, or think of portal, you all think there is two martys when it is only his time reflection, preception of time to us is linear. Think back to the second movie, marty's girlfriend is left in the bad present but when they fix the trouble caused by biff, she is altered. This goes for Marty from the first movie, because they went back in time a second time, Marty's original time travel is altered. Even though we precieved Marty's first travel one way, ultimately that instance is altered to make Marty equal to the present Marty. Remember time doesn't stop when they travel. Einstein doesn't die for that solitary minute, he is merely time jumped, causing him to be removed from existence atomicly only to be re-configured in the next minute. By going back the second time Marty changed the atomic flux of his first atomic flux. Thank you flux compacitor the key to time travel, or in reality time altering....
Meaning that free will was always ours, the time machine merely by existing took that away from us, therefor it was destroyed but doc brown makes a new time traveling device doing the same thing, so why does that not take away our free will? Technically the doc and the school teacher altered their fates by having the time machine alter their time lines, so technically the were written out of existence making the fabric of time their personal playthings, and those little brats couldn't exist without the time alter so that makes the time machine god. (plus the kids do talk there was a crappy cartoon show about the doc family time traveling and it sucked balls)
Why not a time loop with the same tangent? I.e. Marty NOT crashing into the Rolls-Royce, NOT living in Hilldale, NOT having a fuck-up for a son and NOT getting fired. the same tangent occurs because the sequence of events never changes. like a pulsar. with each rotation it sends out a pulse. The rotation is the time loop involving the BTTF Trilogy and the pulse is the tangent by which Marty has an improved future......Food For Thought.
I'm pretty sure that old Marty and new Marty would HAVE TO be exactly the same in every way, that's the way that makes the most sense. They couldn't kill new Marty because then Old Marty shouldn't exist. All of the original events that lead to him being born have been altered, so new Marty still has to go back in time to become old Marty and old Marty (whose memories oddly aren't altered) just has to get a feel for what's different quickly and live his life from where new Marty left off. So really, the only oddity is that Marty still remembers his pre-timetravel life as it was rather than as the changes he made in the 50's made it.
But while we're at it, that really only factors in the 1st movie and part of the 2nd. Did the changes that Marty made to prevent the Biff future really make the 80's turn out exactly the same as when he made the changes to the 50's the first time? And what about when he went back to the late 1800's? Did his interference back then really not change the 80's from his original changes either, or the 50's for that matter? If there were any changes, they were too minor to notice.
The timey-whimey-ness of the time vortex explains this problem. You see time is a series of fixed points, how we get to those fixed points does not matter, as long as we get to them and they happen. When Marty went back in time he fixed the fixed points he disrupted. But the income status of Marty & his siblings was not fixed, just his mother kissing his father at the prom. Because of his time traveling in the time vortex, Marty is partially immune to time line changes. He remembers the old time line. In time he will forget most of the old time line. Watch an eposide of Doctor Who.
Doctor Who's time travel and Back To The Future' time travel are two completely different versions of Time Travel, with Doctor Who's time travel having fixed and non fixed points (If they show didn't have this, the amount of paradoxes created in one episode would drive any writer insane), whilst Back To The Future has a different method that's a bit harder to explain.
or he is just flat out immune to changes, see Steins;gate or the Mandela effect(real world "Phenomenon"/belief) just imagine it's a symptom not of forgetfulness but instead of time line shift immunity.
My dad and I were discussing this the other day. What happens when the Marty from the end of the movie goes back to 1955 and how is it that the Marty we followed throughout the whole movie doesn't seem like he's missed? My rationale was that he just took the place of Marty who goes to 1955 and the moment the DeLorean disappears, the timeline is changed. It's so confusing LOL
Isn't it the same Marty, he was unaffected because he wasn't in 1985 when the timeline switched, he was out of the timeline, thereby unaffected by the change.
But there was the Marty his parents were raising from when they changed in the fifties. Marty upon arriving back in the eighties had no memories of his parents not being losers as he was growing up, but the parents remember him. Therefore there has to be the Marty his changed parents remembered. The "new" Marty.
Why would he be unaffected this Marty is literally shown to have a completely different life so yes he is a different Marty I mean that'd make sense if he's like somehow deleted from the timeline until old Marty come back but he isn't they clearly show the new Marty driving off.
JustCause I Said So Tough call. It's a future movie involving top of the line production teams. Which means, yes, they probably didn't think that hard! lol
The only thing that was proven about the 2nd Marty Mcfly was that his growth and what influenced him was not dependent on his parents. This is blatantly apparent by his disconnect with the original state of his family. Marty's state of mind and how he developed must have been directly linked to Doctor Brown's. So in essence, it's not that the 2nd Marty dropped off the face of the earth, but that he is completing an endless cycle of going back in the past and then seeing a version of his previous self go back in the past at a later date. This isn't to say that they are all the same Marty though, in fact the series as a whole proves it is just the opposite. Consider that the paradox in the space time continuum doesn't occur as he says it does when past and present Jennifer see each other. That future is one that was shaped by a present/past where they did not know what would happen in the future, and the Delorean simply chose the most relevant timeline. This is why the future Jenny didn't know she would bump into the present Jenny, because that present Jenny will create an alternate future in which she won't bump into a Jenny from the past. What is known for sure about the time machine though is that it doesn't actually go through time and that it instead travels through dimensions (space & time). This is relevant by the fact that in Back to the Future 2, the Marty of the skewed timeline was at boarding school. This means that the Delorian doesn't just seek out the correct time frame but one that is relevant to the current status of the past. This is why Jennifer was fine on the porch in the skewed timeline since they were put in a timeline where she was left there but the timeline hadn't been skewed. This is also extremely evident by what Doc Brown says in the third movie when he says that the future isn't written and that it is what you make of it, which means that time is irrelevant and that the future (dimensions) is shaped by choices.
Read on the alternate marty many a times.. but in a way the marty marty 1 sees travelling to 1955 potentially is the same marty but been broguhtup with a different attitude of parents could make him different. so when he goes back to 1955 Martys personality may make things paly out differently, he may get back to the future but an easier or harder way.. He may not be bothered bout being called chicken etc
so we assume doc isn't wearing a vest and dies in the 1st timeline but infact he did wear one as he awoke ONLY after marty left so marty assumed he died. this proves your theory. We think all the time travel stuff started when the movie started but in fact its already been happening. we assume the 1st marty is the 1st marty but its not. the marty we see in the start of the movie met doc at really young age. A doc who already met with a previous marty in 1955. why do you think it took 30 years to "invent" the time machine when he already invented the flux capacitor in 1955. he knew he was supposed to meet up with marty later so he waited about 30 years. its indeed a timeloop running on different dimensions/realities. and your right, its not the same marty. the marty from the past before bttf1 i just mentioned was probably in a different scenerio when he met with the doc. but he indeed had a time machine to see resulting in the first timeline you see in BTTF1
I too suddenly came to realize that Doc probably somehow offed the "new Marty" so that "old Marty" returning from 1955 could take his place. The second time around (if you understand), Doc may have carefully programmed the time machine so that whenever the target date "1955" is entered, the DeLorean actually goes to (say) 2025 and sets off a powerful bomb hidden in the car immediately after arrival. This takes care of "new Marty" without risking any alternations to the past, and conveniently allows "old Marty" to take his place in the unsuspecting family who never understands that their REAL son is gone forever. Instead they've got a changeling who is actually the last relic of a now-defunct, overwritten universe. While pretending to be a friend of "new Marty" raised in a happy family, Doc was actually thinking of him as an artifact of time travel and carefully figured out how to eliminate him so that his (Doc's) friend from 1955 could take over as seamlessly as possible upon return to 1985. "Original Marty" is ALREADY embedded in the past, as demonstrated by the changes he caused, and if "new Marty" goes to 1955 as well, they will likely BOTH be killed as two DeLoreans from two different versions of 1985 try to materialize at the same spot and same moment in 1955. To preserve the past as it now exists, and still preserve Doc's foreknowledge that he must take steps to save himself from the terrorists, NEW MARTY MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT GO TO 1955 and mess up the timeline even more. Face it: Doc somehow sent New Marty to his death and let Original Marty take his place. George and Lorraine never understood that on a fateful night in 1985, their son was cynically eliminated and replaced by a quite different Marty from a very different version of the McFly family.
That's not true, New marty went back in time so the plot of the main movie happens, old Marty appered after new Morty went back in time, otherwise old Marty would die
I actually go with that whole "history repeats itself" thing. I mean if new Marty died, wouldn't the old technically cease to exist (if time were to catch up to him)? I figured new Marty went back to 1955 & just (maybe not 100% accurately) experienced the same events as old Marty. New Marty probably would try to change George when he saw how much of a wuss he was. Of course, this is all just assumptions & what not. Maybe Doc sent Marty to the year 3000 to prevent more past changes.
this was already proven in BTTF2, when they were 2 martys in 1955. the marty going back to 1985 is the new marty that left in the DeLorean when 1st marty got back at the end of BTTF1. it is indeed a timeloop. Doc of 55 in BTTF1 must of met marty very young and manipulate the course of the night of the deloreon. why did it take doc thirty years to build the deloreon. its cause he knew he was supposed to build it in 30 years. We assumed Doc died in the original timeline but it was the same doc that woke up after 1st marty left
There isn't a new or old Marty, there's just one Marty. What you refer to as "old Marty" (Marty before he time-travels) becomes what you call "new Marty" over the course of the movie you just watched. Sure the conditions Marty grew up in in 85 were different because of what he did and would do in 55, but he's the same Marty. He grows up to be the same person regardless of if he's raised by a couple of dorks, a best-selling sci-fi author, or Biff as Donald Trump: Marty is a constant of the universe.
+Mike D Or 'New' Marty wound up in the 1955 of 'Old Marty's' timeline and caused the events that lead to Biff being George's boss and George being a spineless suckup. So when 'New Marty' got back home, it would be to find himself living 'Old Marty's' life.
Talamasca007 Maybe not looping. But the Marty we follow is the only one who's going to have further adventures in time travel, because the 1985 the second Marty returns to is the one with the dead Doc Brown.
+The Batman The Marty we follow creates the world that results in the 2nd Marty. The 2nd Marty takes his trip to 1955 and fouls things up. Because he grew up hearing a very different version of how his parents met, 2nd Marty encourages Biff to bully on George and lust after Loraine, resulting the world in which the first Marty grows up. It's not future trips that cause the loop in this scenario: it's the one (infinitely repeating) trip from 1985 to 1955. Each Marty goes back and recreates the structure of his successor's life, and assumes that life upon his return to 1985.
Talamasca007 How are they continuously repeating? It is not a time loop because if it were, Marty's life would be stuck repeating the first movie ad infinitum, but as we see it is not, his life moves on. Both Martys travel back to the 1955 of their counterpart's parent's lives and merely act as the pivotal points in that timeline as they are meant to. Mart 1's actions in the 1955 we see him visit are part of that reality's history. His actions have not changed anything, they are part of what is meant to happen in that world. Once he's done and uses the Delorean again, he's in Marty 2's Universe. There is no need for a time loop and no reason for one to exist.
My theory is that new Marty had his life with his new and loving family, and he travelled through time to realise that he was the cause of their meeting. In other words, the rest of the time travels become a time loop. The difference between old Marty and new Marty is that Marty notices the changes in his timeline, and new Marty doesn't, as he already lives in it. Old Marty changes his timeline, and new Marty simply restores it.
Come to think of it - this would've made an interesting idea for a possible sequel. Let's say that the Original Marty comfortably sets in to a life that technically belongs to someone else - the New Marty. But instead of killing off New Marty, what if somehow, going back in time to 1955 was the intended event that erased said Marty from existence - but instead of completely vanishing, he just ends up in some sort of paradoxical plane where nothing exists. Miraculously manages to get back to 1985 of his own universe, and sees this complete stranger just move into his new life and replaced him. He could show up demanding his old life back.
Actually you got it all wrong. Doc was the only one who had a bird's eye view of the new timeline Marty had created in 1955. He watched this new timeline unfold over the next 30 years (from 1955 to 1985). He also had not only a working knowledge of the what changes Marty had made in the past, but during that period (1955-1985) Doc would have to be aware of the fact he would be taking Marty into 2015 eventually (having been told all this by the Marty who was trapped in 1955 after the lightning struck the Delorean). So, Doc knew he could not alter the events of the first time jump at the mall, not without further polluting the timeline. What you don't understand, is that Doc, having met both versions of Marty in 1955, would know what changes Marty had made to his parents. The problem here, however, is a single punch by George at the dance would NOT substantially change Biff's personality, not with the results we see at the end of back to the future. Something ELSE must have happened to George, Biff, and Lorraine in 1955 to result in such drastic personality traits. (A punch would not have done this). Enter the SECOND Marty we see go back in time at the end of the movie. Doc would have known that Marty's changes did not result in enough personality changes to Marty's parents to explain their drastic alterations. He would have known that the second Marty was going to end up FURTHER altering his parents, even more than the first Marty did. He would have known that he MUST send this second Marty back to 1955 as well, but he would have sent him back at a date and time AFTER he had sent Marty to 1885 to save himself. I have written an entire screenplay outlining the time jump of the second Marty, and showing what contributions he made to the future Marty ends up in when he returns to 1985 at the end of the movie. www.scribd.com/doc/266500056/The-Future-Is-Back-Back-to-the-Future-sequel-and-remake
Adam Vogel Thanks it's like only half finished, it's meant to be a novel when it's done. I have missing dialogue and the format goes to synopsis style part of the way through, but still, I think it's a great story.
I think I know what made Biff so benevolent to George. It wasn't the punch, it was the attempted rape of Lorraine that George witnessed. George could have told Biff that he wasn't going to go to the cops, and used this incident to his advantage.
You forget that the whole thing was just an accident. He didn't decide to travel back to the fifities to sort of "set things right". It just happened in the heat of the moment. Actually, Doc is the one initiating all of this with Marty just kinda stumbling through the whole mess right into the fifities, if I remember it right. So it could be reasoned that maybe Old Doc was setting Old Marty up to make room for yet another Marty from an entirely different time-line.
To be honest you're just over thinking the time travel in those movies, new Marty just went back and recreated the timeline same as always, every time they travel through time they're just shifting themselves into a separate dimension.
Back to the Future loop holes, paradox's and failed plots. Please attempt to explain any or all.... (just some fun things I always thought about growing up watching these movies) 1) Did Marty or Chuck Barry write/compose/create "Johny B Good"? Marty heard it from Chuck, Chuck heard it from Marty... 2) If the people (siblings and Marty) disappear from the photo that means someone took a random picture of a tree and bush? Also, they faded, that means at one specific second they were "almost" created. Either they exist or they didn't. Weird form of narration. 3) Don't know about George McFly but I'd be highly pissed if my wife had a kid that looked just like a friend from high school. Did Marty's mom totally forget about the guy she tried to screw in the car during the big dance? Do girls regularly forget these things? What a ho! 4) Marty is returning to 1980 in a time machine... changes the time to allow himself enough time to warn Doc at twin pine mall... but still fails to make it in time. WTF?!!! Why return 10 mins earlier? what does that accomplish? Why not arrive a day or two earlier? 5) Marty asked his parents to name their child after him, and they did, shouldn't his older brother be named Marty then? 6) When Marty is realizing all the changes his actions in the past have effected "the present" his parents and siblings notice he is acting weird and asked if he was alright, so apparently there was another Marty living the altered life up till that point. There is the Marty that was raised by loser parents, and the Marty that was raised by hip cool confident parents who we never get to see. What happened to that preppy alternate Marty that the family is used to up until that moment? Basically, what happens when the actions or choices of an individual greatly effect that individual, which version is left standing? 7) There are three freakin time machines in the 1950's according to the trilogy. One in Docs garage, one in a cave waiting for Marty, another hovering watching from the sidelines. Each movie clearly shows a specific time machine "in play" during the 1950's. 8)Doc has to be the biggest douche of all time. He writes letters from 1880's to future Marty and Docs, but there's three movies following chronological time lines of so much drama filled problems. Doc living in 1880 already knows terrorists will attack in the 1980's because he basically ripped them off. He already knows Marty will be stuck in the 1950's, and that he will die by Mad Dog Tanner in the next few days. Meanwhile there's a letter on someone's desk waiting for 1950's Doc and Marty. Geez, write some more information dipshit! You have all this knowledge and chose to send trivial information forward. 9) Epic Mind Fuck time!!! There are two time machines in the wild west. How did Doc get to the wild west past? Time Machine #1. Placed in a cave till discovered, Marty returns to save Doc... in a time machine... #2, while one is obviously still waiting for Marty in the future. If the time machine doesn't exist in the cave, Marty can't return, so the whole freakin time the Time machine is on the rail road being pushed, there has to be a time machine in the cave waiting for future Marty. I mean the time machine Doc arrives in the wild west didn't just disappear, and here comes Marty in a Time machine... WTF! 10) The whole point of Back to the Future 3 was Doc is trapped because the time machine is broke. They are about to return to the future when Doc is forced to chose to save the teacher or return. He stays to save the teacher. Marty arrives on the train tracks in the present in the time Machine. Then WTF!!!! Doc shows up in a completely built time machine from a FUCKING train!!!! He can't repair the time machine in 1880 but he can make a whole new one from scratch!!!???
Some good points. About #10, when Doc returns in his train time machine he is married with children, so obviously many years have passed. Doc lost all hope of returning when he was zapped back to the west originally but had a new spark of life when Marty showed up. He wasn't planning on staying at the end, he had to because of Clara's dumbass. He spent the next several years building a new machine so he could get back to his old time traveling ways.
thrilla69x meanwhile there's the initial time machine Doc arrived in sitting in the cave waiting for 1950's, and the one Marty arrived in they place on the train tracks to get back. It's a mindf**k. If he didn't want Marty returning he could've fixed the one he arrived in. Or better yet, sent specific information in the letter how to fix the one he had, then they both could've left in separate machines.
1) Predestination paradox. No big deal. Just ask Kyle Reese 2) The picture was taken. Whether or not people were in the pic at the time wasnt the pictures problem. 3) If you, at the age of 47, can remember perfectly a face you saw for only one week 30 years previously, then you need to go on Jeopardy and win a million dollars 4) He had only seconds to make that decision. Had he not been rushed and stressed, he would have thought it out better. 5) He didnt say WHICH kid to name... 6) Lost in time. Bummer. But yes, the one at the end of the timeline is the winner 7) Cool huh. Just like the Futurama movie, Bender's Big Score. There's about 1000 Benders at one moment. 8) "He" already survived the terrorist attack. No need to warn "himself" of what, from his point of view, is over with and done. And who would he have warned about Tannen? He still has to save HIMSELF first, before he can sit on his ass and write letters. 9) Thats no big deal. The time machine just did a loop thru the 1880's. Just another day at the office. The only flaw there, is that if I were them, I would have broke into the cave to suck gas out of Machine #1 (broken time circuit), so I could power up Machine #2 (fixed time circuit), seal the cave back up and gotten the heck out of dodge. 10) Cause he had more time to think about it. When Marty rescued him, he's only been there 8 months. But when the Doc comes back with the train, its been 8 YEARS (judging by the age of the kids). He settled down, got to work, and solved the problem with all the time he needed.
SpreadingtheMuse 1) Naming another poor example isn't an answer. But good point. 2) The picture was taken as a family photo featuring all 3 kids. The picture exists because of the implied intent. 3) No, it's not just a face from 45 years ago. High school dances, kisses, crushes, the boy dad hit with the car that one time how the keep reliving it at the dinner table in the beginning... she seems to remember it in detail. It's a "how I meet your mother" type story. Not to mention he made an epic impression on the town, car chases, skateboards... "isn't he a dream". Seriously it's a loophole. 4) It's a time machine. There's no excuse. 5) True, valid point. 6) Lost in time? A winner? Doesn't make sense. Are you saying one "failed" or "canceled" out into oblivion... but how? 7) Yes indeed, each one being 1000 years older then the next. The oldest Bender would've had to make the trip 1000's time so that the last can go once... if there's 1000 of them. Right? If you write or draw out the timeline of the Doelorian it's bewildering. And one goes missing. The one Doc showed up in. 8) Marty shows up saying you're gonna die next week. Obviously Doc knows the letter worked. At that moment he should realize he can send information forward and it would be instantaneous to him. Besides, if I know before hand I'm going to be shot by terrorists "on the night I go back" I would have reconsidered cheating and lying to them, and took more precautions to prepare. Just saying. 9) I think it's a big deal being a scientist trying to figure out how to get out of the wild west with a time machine in the cave and a time machine on the tracks. It's a WTF moment. I'm not even a mechanic and I realize if there are two cars, one has gas and one doesn't... duh. 10) It doesn't make sense, Marty didn't know he was in the past until 1955. 8 months, 8 years, 100 years... how much is enough? Thanks for the reply!!!! I enjoyed reading your valid points.
Semper Fi 1) Kyle Reese is a GOOD example, not a poor one. Its been a sci fi trope for decades, because it works 2) The picture doesnt care what the motivations were, its just a moment in time that changes after the fact. In the logic of the movie, its independent of the origins 3) Your memory might be better than other peoples, but I can say that I wouldnt have any memory of a 30 year old face I only knew for a brief time. The parents memories are likely based on the "first moment," which was in the parking lot with Biff. Marty wasnt involved in that memory, and from that point on the parents only cared about each other. 4) Stress is EVERY excuse! He's mad, frustrated, rushed, exasperated. Anyone who thinks straight in those circumstances is either lobotomized or a robot. 5) Thanks 6) A book which covers this territory is "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold. The novel gives a protagonist a time travel device and he uses it to scramble time to the nth degree. He discovered time was like an oil painting. You take an old painting (the timeline), splotch it with new paint (screw something up), and what you get, whether it makes sense or not, is what you get. The scene under the painting loses out to the mess on top of it. Layers of paint. Layers of time screw ups. 7) Doc did say maybe 1955 was a time junction... 8) He can attempt to fiddle with "his past," but that turns into the "Devil you know" philosophy. Maybe if he hides better, maybe if he picks a different mall, then the lybians wont find him this time. Maybe.... But as "his past" stands now it works out fine. Scary, but he knows that if he does nothing... it works. 9) I dont have a problem with two time machines in the 1880's. Just the way the ball bounced. ONE of them had to get back to the future "the long way," as Bender would put it. 10) I think if you have to build a time machine from scratch...8 years is more useful than 8 months. Doc had an immediate goal which needed done first: getting the schematics to 1955 and saving Marty. That was a definite chance for success (assuming Western Union came thru). Preparing the machine and hiding it took all his time in those 8 months (as well as getting settled into a new job) THEN, with goal #1 complete, he could spend time on the goal with no guarantee at all for success. Maybe he could build a new machine and maybe he couldnt. But he didnt dare waste years doing that BEFORE he took care of the immediate problem. Thanks
what you gotta remember is that there's different timelines. The original timeline is what you see at the beginning of the movie, with Marty's parents being depressed and shit. But as soon as Marty travels into the past and changes it, the original timeline is erased and a new timeline is created, the new timeline that Marty returns to. Since Marty experienced the old timeline, he still keeps the memories of it.
Why does everyone assume that in a time travel movie where anything changes, "Past Marty" and "Future Marty" or "Past Doc" and "Future Doc" are some sort of quantum-produced clones, just because they occupy the same moment in time at once? They're the same person, with two different experiences. The Doc who was killed was the only Doc; so was the one who survived. Something changed so that he no longer died; its that simple. Similarly, Marty as he is in the altered future is simply "original" Marty's new past self, and he goes back in time to the 50s to do the same things he did, although admittedly from his perspective, its probably to ensure that things turn out the way he knows them. The end.
at the beginning of the movie Doc called Marty and said he needed Marty's assistance, because from Doc's point of view, Marty already gave him the letter, but Marty had to go back in time to give it to him. We saw Doc get shot at the beginning, but his death was never confirmed. Marty did not know about the letter because he hadn't written it yet.
When Marty #1 returns to 1985, I'm thinking the revamped 1985 timeline doesn't actually go into effect until the moment Marty #2 travels into the past.
Idk if anyone has considered this but I always think of this scene as similar to the photo or marty's transparent hand earlier in the movie. Basically, the Marty in the Delorian and the Marty observing the scene from above are the same. What's happened is that the time ripple that Marty set in motion when he went back early hasn't caught up just yet. This probably happens when Marty runs up to Doc's "Dead body" and Doc opens his eyes to reveal the bulletproof vest. It is at this point that the timeline has corrected itself for the changes Marty made to this moment via the letter and his early return.
The idea that Marty travels back from the past to a changed future by effects of his doing in the first and second movies without realizing the changes that occur to his knowledge to his personal reality may assert the theory that Doc Browns' time machine not only can go back and forward in time but punches holes outside of time space, or non-time, in the idea of stepping out of a waterslide to go into another waterslide. If he knew how his upbringing would occur in each changed time line he wouldn't be surprised on the shocks shared with the audiences- nerd parents turned successes as siblings, Biff going from tool-bully- then pushover, Biff being his dad in Pt. 2. This leads to the probability that Marty may be an alternate reality Marty to a series of changed alternate realities. Ergo, Doc Browns' time machine can also go to alternate dimensions.
I figured it out. At the end of the movie, Old marty goes with doc into the future to save his family. But how can he have a future self if he has left the present and is absent for the next 20 years. The answer: when we see the "new" marty blast off to 1955 again, he actually isn't going to the past but rather hes going just a few days in the future, Just moments after the original marty and doc go to 2015. That way, "new" marty can resume his life, grow up, have a family, and original marty goes to the future to straighten up new marty's life.
This is the best explanation. The Marty and Doc we see in the third movie is the result of a myriad of Doc's working together subtly with the intention of putting "our" Marty in a universe where he can exist. Standing in the driveway staring at the truck was a sort of temporal storage, while New Doc worked out details with New Marty of what to do with our Marty. I think the end of part 3 with the train is another Doc dropping our Marty off in a universe similar to his own after possibly hundreds of years of research.
No. None of that makes any sense. Marty has a future because after the 3rd movie he ends up back in his time, to live his future. The only feasible solution is that new Marty went and lived thru the first movie only with subtle details changed. Instead of the traditional story of how his parents met, he realized he was his parents long lost friend that saved his dad from getting hit by the car, and hooked his parents up just like the story he grew up listening to. Therefor, he already knew the details and it just made sense. But that means old Marty would have known too. Paradox much? That mean's that after the initial change in timelines created the second timeline, that second timeline would infinitely be split into a new timeline, every time an old Marty came back, causing infinite clones of the same timeline.
Kyle Pack You just made the same point you're attempting to refute. That is not the same Marty or the same Hill Valley. New Marty went somewhen. The explanation you've backed is flawed in that it assumes fixed events with no free will.
Look up Igor Novikov or Kip Thorne and their self consistent timeline theories. What you said is completely different to what I'm saying. You are talking about characters working together to plot a solution. I am using actual quantum theories that were already made to resolve the grandfather paradox. Mother nature (errrr.., father time?) works to resolve it's own problems in circumstances like these. The only significant change made was the story of how Marty's parents united changed with the inclusion of "Calvin", and George growing a backbone. Where your flaw lies is assuming there are 2 Marty's and there isn't. Only one but with infinite offshoots of realities all mirroring the second. Except for the first where Marty disappeared and Doc died... The point is that even tho those movies are classic, the theories involved in the plot are mostly flawed. They didn't even need the train in the third movie. The Doc's Delorean STILL HAD GAS IN IT AND WAS IN THE SAME CAVE THAT MARTY HID HIS!!
I think of this within the multi-versal theory. Original Marty was the first in line to create the paradox. He goes back in time and shifts to the new timeline. The doc in the new timeline knows this and allows the mall event to happen, doesn't have to do much to make it happen. New Marty doesn't die, he is just shifted to a new timeline. Instead of improving his parents timeline, new Marty is now just maintaining the improved timeline. New Marty needs to travel back in time to maintain the new timeline. The more you change the more the multiverse will be disturbed, Dr. Brown needed Marty to repeat his adventure to keep as much of a balance as possible, using the unintentional actor that caused it. You don't destroy timelines, you only shift to new/alternate ones.
This opens up a can of temporal worms. Time Line A - Twin Pines Marty TPM Time Line B - Lone Pines Marty LPM Throughout the second and third act of BTTF1 Marty tracks the impact of his changes using the photo of his siblings. This narrative device establishes that meddling with history has a gradual effect on the future, altering earlier events first and later ones last of all. We see TPM’s older brother Dave and then sister Linda erased from the photo, then finally as the moment of the kiss arrives TPM himself begins to fade. But even at this point all of TPM’s memories, personality and skills remain intact. TPM does state “I can’t play.” Leaving room to speculate he has lost the skill; but I interpret this as his intangibility preventing him from playing. So even up to the point of being erased from the time line TPM maintains the memories from Time Line A. To quote from another Time Travel Movie - 12:01 (the short film) “Consciousness is an independent variable.” These memories remain, as we move into the end scenes in Time Line B where TPM shows confusion and shock at the changes in his parents and siblings. From this observation we can see how Time Travellers appear cocooned from the changes, being out of their native time stream. TPM sets up multiple changes to his own personal history, yet no temporal effects alter his memories. His memories from Time Line A remain intact, through out the changes he creates in the first film, and even through the changes caused by Old Biff in the second film. In Back to the Future 2 Biff’s use of the Time Machine occurs while TMP is currently a time traveller. Neither TPM nor Doc have their thoughts altered by Old Biff’s changes while they are in the future. They travel back from the Time Line B’s 2015 arriving in the 1985 of what we shall now call Time Line C Time Line B - Old Biff Time Line C - Casino Biff When TPM and Doc return to 1985 from 2015 they unknowingly arrive in the darker Time Line C. While a time traveller is outside their own time the changes occur slowly progressing forward. Temporal Displacement, the state of moving between times may appear instantaneous, but that momentless break in continuity gives the time line opportunity to resolve any changes, in this instance the changes set in motion by Old Biff resolve and the time line is now Time Line C, anyone re-entering the time line from temporal displacement will return to the dark time line. Back to the Future 3 doesn’t add much to this, but when we take into account Back to the future The Game (from Tell Tale Games) we see changes created in 1930 reshape the 1980’s again. Edna Strickland also causes changes in the 1800s that drastically alter the Hill Valley of the 1930’s, but in this instance the change is so massive that its effects are immediate, and only Doc and TPM’s cocoon of time travel protects them from being wiped out (but I speculate neither have long to fix this). So how do any of these observations help to solve the fate of LPM? I present to you the three hidden details that might… 1, There is a time traveller in Time Line A that is still cocooned 2, TPM is still cocooned throughout films 2 and 3 and the games 3, Doc is cocooned as of act two of the second film In reverse order… 3 - When TPM and Doc enter Time Line C there is a time difference of around ten hours between their departure (early morning in sunlight) and return (dark night skies, and residents asleep in bed) this means that until a time jump returns them to the exact point of departure they are still in the future. They are still time travellers. Doc and TPM never return to their own time for the rest of the franchise. They are still in effect in the future. Cocooned from any changes to the time line they are currently visiting. 2 - In the first movie TPM, just prior to leaving 1955, alters the destination time circuit to give him ten minutes extra to change Doc’s fate. TPM never returns to his own time, and is still technically in the past at the end of the movie. Only ten minutes in the past, but this means he’s cocooned. This one fact creates a branch on the LPM timeline - lets call it Time Line Bx Which means any changes caused by LPM have to slowly catch up with TPM in time line Bx. In the first movie the changes took most of a week to work their way through his siblings and on to TPM. Well the next morning in time line Bx Doc whisks TPM and Jennifer off to 2015 (oh yeah Jennifer is cocooned too). Biff then sets a whole new time line in place. When Doc returns everyone to the 80’s Time Line Bx no longer exists. Old Biff set a chain of events in motion that made significant changes to Hill Valley. The Casino Marty was sent away to boarding school, the Casino Doc was institutionalised and the two probably never met. Major changes in the McFly family would accelerate the erasure of LPM, As soon as Old Biff went through Temporal Displacement the chain of events set in place would have been resolved. The only thing stopping them from working their way to 2015 would be the time travellers that were visiting that time from the 80s (Jennifer Doc and TPM). Once they all went through temporal displacement the dark timeline resolved. Between 1:30am and 11am on October 26 1985 TPM was mostly asleep, during this time LPM was in 1955. After 11am Oct 26 TPM was in 2015, until 9pm when he returned to 1985. Lone Pine Marty ceased to exist as of 9pm October 26th 1985. His timeline (b) was replaced by the dark timeline (c) erasing LPM from existence. But why wasn’t TPM erased? 1 - Einstein is still in Time Line 1, and is still a cocooned time traveller. None of the changes to TPM’s history remove Einstein from existence so Doc’s pet isn’t facing erasure. Therefore Einstein’s memories are intact. Until he undergoes another temporal displacement his independent consciousness maintains Time Line A. And as long as Time Line A exists TPM has a tether to keep him in place, unlike LPM. Time Line B’s Einstein was placed in suspended animation, then brought back from 2015 with Jennifer, TPM and Doc. As that dog went through temporal displacement Time Line B ceased to exist. Why doesn’t Time Line B’s Marty create paradoxical plot holes? Because of Einstein’s trip back from 2015 to 1985.
Anyone else notice that the ending of BTTF 3 is completely pointless, they don't have to use the train to get the Delorean up to 88mph all they have to do is take the parts they need to fix the car from the other Delorean that the Doc went back to the old west in at the end of the second movie that he buried for Marty to find in the future. There are two Deloreans in 1885.
***** They could've just taken the parts they needed and leave the actual Delorean in the cave. It would just mean that 1955 Doc had to repair a little more than before which wouldn't be a problem since there was no time pressure then and 1955 had all the necessary parts already existing.
It was high octane gasoline they needed and petroleum gas was in its infancy at the time. Not saying the whole gas thing was a big plot whole but it could have been solved easy and quickly with a still and ethanol(alcohol). Another problem was a smooth road, then again they could have did it on the rail. Also just because the rail ROW existed in 1985 it does not mean a new set of tracks was not layed exactly in the same alignment but could have been a few inches or feet different. They do replace tracks all the time.
the de lorean was fixed, the problem was the petrol. I'm sure some very low octane petrol was probably available but that wouldnt really work with the combustion engine of the delorean and certainly not get up to 88mph. Doc fixing up the engine and putting in something that could run on alcohol or low RON fuel probably wouldnt work either because it just wouldnt make the power to get up to 88mph.
I always just saw the other Marty as going back to 1955 the exact same way, with the Libyans chasing after him and the Delorean sending him back when it reached 88mph and he was able to set off the exact same events as he did throughout that week he spent with Doc Brown in 1955 in a perfect loop, which is why once the Marty that just arrived back witnessed Doc getting shot down by the Libyans, he waited until the other Marty went back to 1955 (in order to prevent accidentally interacting with him before he went back and risking a major time paradox), the Libyans crashed their Volkswagen Bus into a photo booth and Marty then went over to Doc, much to his dismay until he got back up and revealed to Marty that he eventually read the warning letter that he wrote before leaving 1955 and he put on the bulletproof vest before going to the Lone Pine Mall parking lot to reveal the Delorean time machine to the other Marty. So in other words, the other Marty just simply repeated all the same events that he did in 1955 as the Marty that arrived back in 1985 in a perfect loop.
Or new Marty goes to old Marty's time line and teaches old Marty's parents how to become rich like his parents are. Or that's just what I want to think....
The only way for time travel to not have loopholes and paradoxes is if we travel through alternative versions of our world. The past present and future co-exsist, so if you're traveling to your past, you're actually travelling to their present. The alternate dimensions theory is plausible in this series because of the whole 1985A storyline in Part 2. The 1985 we see at the end where Marty's family is well-off isn't the same as the beginning of the movie, so this is an alternate dimension that he lives in, and the other Marty had to travel to this Marty's original dimension to keep everything in check. So the new Marty isn't dead, he just gave up his perfect life for the space time continuum.
It's an endless cycle old marty goes to 55,then back to 85,then to 2015,alternate 85 and 1885 then back to regular 85 meanwhile new marty is one step behind him Example old marty is in 2015 with doc while new marty is in 1985 with doc
Or, uhh, as a straight up answer. I think they were trying to go with Cody finger drawing in the air the name Marty and adding an R to drive his point home, then they both paused for a moment & realized there were actual words in the air between them and freaked out. Kind of...oddly meta for Cracked.
beacuse the writers (gale and Zemeckis) named one of the main characters "Marty" and it´s an odd coincidence taht it is only one letter short fo "martyr". It is like they are proving this theory right
Doc befriends Marty because Doc knows he needs to be friends with original Marty in order to show him time travel to make sure that what happens happens. Also at the end of the movie Marty is just watching the moment where he travels back to 1955 happen. Nobody dies
That Marty IS the Marty we follow throughout the movie, just in the past. He will do all the things the Marty we follow did. People think of the past Marty and the present Marty as two different people in two different times, but they're not. They're the same Marty, in two different times. Like I said, it's a loop.
*GOD DAMN IT WHY DID I WASTE ALL OF THAT TIME REPLAYING RANDOM SHIZ NO ONE BUT ME CAN UNDERSTAND WHEN I COULD HAVE JUST SIMPLY SAID MOTHERFUCKINMULTIVERSE CURSE MY BRAIN OVER ANALYZING EVERYTHING I BLAME CRACKED THEY RUINED MY CHILDHOOD AND MAKE ME RETHINK EVATING*
dragonwarrior3z Hey dude, its cool. You can cop out like me and say multiverse or can think up some pretty cool theories as to how all this can be possible.
I'm pretty sure Marty just went back to 1955 like original Marty creating an infinite time loop of him going back in time and coming back just to see his former self go into the past and come back to see his former self go into the past and come back and on and on and on
At the beginning of the movie, even though Marty doesn't know it yet, is life is already altered by his supposed time travel about to happen. How do i know that? Because we will later find out that the professor was wearing a bulletproof vest all that time (he made that decision because he read Marty's letter), so even when they are experimenting with the DeLorean for the first time, the events are already changed by the time travelling (yet to happen). But there's a catch: Marty's parents are boring and stupid, obviously not yet affected at all by the same time travelling events that worked so well on Doc (and saved his life). In order to see ANY change in Marty's parents we have to wait for the end of the movie, after the whole adventure has taken place... but Doc didn't have to. His life starts out already affected by the adventure when the movie starts. Isn't that a plot hole?
+Jimmy David As far as we know, Doc wasn't wearing a vest at Twin Pines mall. But when Marty returns 10 minutes early, we see that his trip to the past has already changed the world to which he returned. The ripple effect arrived in 1985 before Marty did. The Doc at Lone Pine Mall had a bullet proof vest and Marty's letter. Lone Pine Doc would have had to courageously repeat all of Twin Pine Doc's reckless actions, fully knowing their end result.
+Jimmy David It's not a plot hole because it didn't happen that way. As you've said yourself, Marty's parents are unchanged, therefore Marty has not yet changed the past, therefore Marty has not yet given Doc Brown the letter, therefore Doc Brown is not wearing the vest. What evidence is there that he is, at the beginning of the movie, before Marty timetravels? When Marty returns to 1985, he is in an alternate time-line, one where he did travel to the past, he did affect his parents' lives, he did give Doc Brown the letter, and Doc is wearing the vest. But this is not the time-line we see at the beginning.
viddork The problem i see with that is that the "alternate timeline" and "the past changes the future" are 2 clichets used to explain the plot when they are convenient, but you can't jump from one to the other... you have to pick one and make it the rule! So, how does reality work in this movie, everytime Marty returns to the present after an adventure in the past? Has he effectively changed it all (and thus we would need to make those changes count even *before* the time trip) or does he return to a different timeline? If you want to say that he's a stranger in the timeline everytime he returns, then why doesn't he come back to find *another* Marty (the one from that timeline)??
But that's the whole point of this video: he DOES find another Marty (the one raised in the functional family) when he comes back - the one he watches escape in the DeLorean just before going down to find Doc alive. The question this video is asking is, what happens to THAT Marty?
viddork But in the first movie he also fixes the past, then comes back home (supposedly to an alternate timeline, by what you said) and his family is changed, yet his place is still vague, there's no other Marty home. In that case, seems like he really fixed his OWN timeline, right (?), the one where he belongs. But don't forget that it all is happening within the same reality where Doc has put on a vest. It indicates that it IS possible to fix one's own timeline then. The question becomes: why have his family no memory of past events? They should be as aware as Doc himself.
Theory: New Marty goes back to the exact same date, but his alterations create the timeline we saw in the start of the movie., thus creating an infinite time loop, constantly switching back and forth between the two realities.
You want BttF fanfic? How about Twin Pines George McFly wondering what happened to his son, the one that disappeared forever? And the only person who knows what may have happened was killed by terrorists. Life in his already-crappy timeline turns even more bleak, and in a fit of desperation he breaks into Doc's house but doesn't find anything more useful than an early experiment in time travel, a stasis chamber, big enough for a sheepdog. More than ready to write off his own pointless life, he sets it for a century, crawls inside, and freezes when it activates...and so he just sits there, inert, while time continues on without him. We see flashes of a gradually-aging Lorraine, occasionally banging on the window and weeping, but she grows decrepit and disappears. When the century has passed the door opens and he finds a cult dedicated to worshiping the Man in the Box, but he is frightened by them and resets the chamber for a thousand years, eventually crawling out to become a part of the advanced science-fictional world he always dreamed about.
Here's what I think happened: Time traveling Marty (the one who goes to 1955) finds out that Doc is alive, therefor altering the timeline because new knowledge has been gained. This knowledge changes the future to the one where all the McFlys are happy. Leaving the other Marty(s) in different futures and pasts since, as Doc explains, there are other timelines. All the possible outcomes are playing out, just in different branches of the timeline; the movie just decided to follow the Marty who gets the happy McFly family. To clarify: all the possible outcomes, Martys, Docs, etc. exist in the corresponding times, but in different versions (the same way Doc and Marty go back to the really messed up 1985 and see that Biff tampered with the 1985 they're familiar with). ***Sorry if this confusing or if you find holes/unanswered questions, but do keep in mind that this is a fictional movie so the laws of the space time continuum don't always need to be satisfied in order to make something possible.
You guys are wrong. As stated already in this comment section Marty has to keep going back to maintain the loop. Also we never see doc die at the beginning we only see him get shot which means he very well could have already had the bullet proof vest on. The original Marty just observes Doc laying there and then assumes. The changes in the past effect Marty's timeline yes but the rest is a closed loop.
that's assuming things can't be changed and everything plays out as they always have, but Back To The Future 2 breaks that theory by showing us futures that can be changed, so what happened when Marty came back wasn't what happened in the original timeline and Doc didn't want these two Marty's to interact so he faked his death and sent new Marty to his doom
Also Doc showed Marty the letter he reconstructed, so he knew to wear the vest, he wouldn't have known that in the original timeline and would have died so things did change, and Marty went from poor to rich
There wasn't a loop before Marty went back and there are definite changes beyond just Marty's timeline like his family now being noticeably richer. If Marty's memories had changed to fit the new version of the future then your theory would hold up but they didn't and so there are at least two distinct versions of Marty walking around the spacetime continuum and since the second one never shows back up you can only assume something bad (or really good) happened to stop him.
xenomorph101AJ Here's the ultimate gaffe in the series: Old Biff steals the Delorean to give 1955-Biff the Sports Almanach. Why would he then chose to return the time machine? And even if he did: How could he even get to the timeline where he stole it, since he has (as we see in the movie) completely altered American history?
the whole thing is in a infinite loop because by the time biff got back they would have fixed it then there other selfs would end up having to fix it again
My take: Same Marty, but more confident. Doc called him to invite him to see the finished project and Marty was the one who stepped out of his timeframe and caused the change. In the beginning, his guitar performance is mediocre and he talks about fear saying something like 'I don't know if I can take that kind of rejection'. His father instilled that in him. But when Marty goes back, he changes his father's outlook on life, gives him opportunities to learn confidence and a phrase to remember it all and pass it on to his son 'it's like I always told you, if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything'. The complete change happens when he nearly fades out of existence and fades back in. That's why he has more energy and rocks the hell out of the stage when his original performance in the first scene was so weak. he was holding back his best game because of his fears, fears that all but faded away when he almost did. Your Paradox is because the film seems to only recognize a single universe rather than a multiverse. Then again, maybe it's the viewer who's shifting through various multiverse timelines and is partly in sync with Marty but not completely. That's why we almost lost him at the dance. What really happened is he faded out right then and there, completely erasing himself from that existence and we, being entangled with him, instantly shifted to an adjacent timeline, landing in the nearest one where the poppa McFly happened to finally grow a pair. Either way...
The joke is that these videos are just supposed to be them talking in the office. If you and your friend were talking about a video and then realised you could edit text onto the actual air you'd freak out.
Have you ever realized, that no story can take place in a perfect world, because every story must have a conflict and no perfect world has conflict or else something about it isn't perfect for someone.
The Marty they are talking about killing is also the one that had to come back but his memories of the altered future wouldn't resolve until that future resolved. Time travel rarely makes any sense to begin with, but this is essentially how most time travel scenarios are seen to resolve. The question is whether or not the new Marty would meet doc, as it would be easy enough for Doc to talk him into arriving at exactly the same time again as before, and the exact second at which any of those things happens should not alter things significantly. In a fluid time model (the kind Dr Who tends to use but isn't always consistent) if you alter your own past those changes propagate forward, and if that ends in a contradiction of some kind the events will continue to repeat over and over again in a time loop until a sequence of events that CAN resolve settles down, and you only ever get to watch the last loop that actually resolves in most cases. Think Groundhog day on a much larger scale. History has to keep repeating until a sequence of events that doesn't contradict itself occurs.
Greg: "So this is what we're doing? We're developing back to the future fan fiction?" Greg... What do you think your job is? Also, this is funnier after the Small Beans bit were Cody said he didn't learn Greg's name in either timeline.
Everyone losing their head on something this simple. Despite new Marty be richer, he still lives in the same house, just a better version of it, and goes to the same school, so this leads to minor differences on his new life's opportunities, also now that his dad is a Sci fi writer, Marty would be even more prone into befriending doc. Also Doc now knows with 100% assurance the time machine is possible and that he will succeed into it, with that he drop out all most random creation, now devoting he's life into studying the time, this can be seen as in the second movie on he is a bit more serious, and have more consistent theories, so he came to a conclusion he is living a circular paradox (your way of time traveling causes it to repeat itself over and over), because the doc that uses the bullet proof vest on lone pine mall is NOT the Doc that "just sent Marty from 1955 to 1985", he is actually the doc that sent Marty From 1955 to 1855! After sending Marty from 1955 to 1855 he goes to the library and see himself and Marty on the clock tower picture, and he's name no longer in the tombstone, then he realizes that when Marty comes back from 1855 to the final 1985 there would be 2 docs, he that wouldn't time traveled at all and the doc from 1855, so he commit into he's steps again to 1 ensure he'll have the needed parts to create the time traveling train and finally break the cycle without a paradox...
Well put. You made me realise that the only way to truly answer all of this is to treat all 3 films as one. Especially as they are all interconnected. It seems the Marty returning from 1885 to 1985, arrives a little after the Doc, Marty and Jennifer left to go to 2015 in the flying Delorean. He collects Jennifer from the porch where she was left in BTTF2 alt 1985 and then they go for a spin in the 4x4. Doc is no where to be seen as he's either in 2015 BTTF2 or 1885 with Clara but then when they check the time machine wreckage the Time Machine train arrives with Doc and family.
The only feasible solution is that new Marty went and lived thru the first movie only with subtle details changed. Instead of the traditional story of how his parents met, he realized he was his parents long lost friend that saved his dad from getting hit by the car, and hooked his parents up just like the story he grew up listening to. Therefor, he already knew the details and it just made sense. But that means old Marty would have known too. Paradox much? That mean's that after the initial change in timelines created the second timeline, that second timeline would infinitely be split into a new timeline every time an old Marty came back, causing infinite clones of the same timeline.
Or...New Marty is sent on a one way trip into the far future where he is instructed to remain by future police and past doc to avoid a paradox. New rich Marty is likely to accept the boon of eternal life in year 2500 rather than
Lots of things were screwed up in the movies, but because they are comedies people are able to forgive the flaws. The number one flaw is the inconsistency of the time ripple effect, which conveniently allows for many of the differences to occur throughout the movies. In contrast, action movies or television series that have episodes with time travel are usually only good when history is immutable and a sustainable time loop occurs.
New Marty can't die or else the entire plot of back to the future falls apart. If new Marty doesn't eventually become original Marty then Marty didn't need to get his parents back together for him to exist. New Marty dying should have the same effect on original Marty's existence as Marty never being born.
Original Marty already changed the timeline creating a new timeline, therefore new Marty didn't need to do anything because events had already been changed. You're thinking of a loop paradox, this is timeline flux.
Lazarou101 It can't be time flux in the way you're thinking of it. Remember Original Marty almost erased his own existence by messing with his parents meeting. When Original Marty gets "his" parents back together they give birth to New Marty. If New Marty doesn't become Original Marty then it shouldn't have mattered if his parents ever met. My theory is that the effects of what Marty does don't take into effect until Marty travels back in time. This means that Original Marty watched Original Marty go back in time. There is no version of Marty that grew up rich. Once Marty leaves everything changes. I think this is the only way to explain it using the rules put in place by the movie.
New Marty didnt die, but when he went back in time he changed the timeline in such a way that old Marty lived with his parents being the way they are in the beginning of the movie. When old Marty meets Doc and goes back in time, he changes his parents to what they are at end of film, but he still remains the same. When old Marty comes back and the new Marty is going back in time, the new Marty ends up recreating the life old Marty had by not interfering or might have been the one that caused his dad to get in front of the car resulting in a crackpot George meeting Loraine which created the timeline old Marty lived in when the new Marty went back in time. Thus, creating the life for old Marty. When old Marty went back in time he knew about George and pushed him out of the way when his grandfather hit him. Thus, when old Marty returned the changes to the timeline occurred to which George and Loraine were different, but the old changes as to George being a crackpot and Loraine drunk did not occur yet because new Marty was still in the past making them so the life new Marty had still existed when old Marty came back.
According to the Chaos Effect, the moment Marty appeared in 1955, he already set in motion changes that would have led to his non-existence leaving time-traveling Marty as a "temporal orphan" for all intents and purposes did not exist before appearing in 1955.
Marty created a new timeline. Marty 2 goes back in time but to another 1955. The Marty who left 1985 to 1955 in the beginning created another timeline where doc dies and Marty goes missing, his family searches for him for years but then gives up hope. Mom dies of liver failure, Dave becomes manager at Burger King, Marty's sister suffers from diabetes, and George commits suicide in Biff's office. Marty returns to the new timeline with doc knowing about the shooting. When Doc, Marty and Jennifer go to the future, they create a new timeline. You're welome!
How about less concern on the time travel duplicates and more about the line where Doc said he spent nearly the ENTIRE Brown family fortune to create the time machine when spoken in context with the news paper clippings of the Brown Mansion fire as evidence Doc burned the mansion down for the insurance money so he could build the time machine.
Actually what happened was super doc with the time train secretly went to the future and retrieved a memory copying device, went back to the moment new Marty arrived in 1955 and murdered him so that he never changes the timeline, goes back to 1985 and copies old Marty's memories, goes back to 1955 and gives the memory copier to old super doc so he doesn't have to kill Marty, timeline reset to new Marty, then old super doc goes back to 1985, kidnaps new Marty and uses the memory machine to replace his memories with old Marty's memories, then the whole thing plays out exactly as it did before. No paradox.
No. That's the same Marty who originally got into the car; he went back in time and did all that stuff. Things in this timeline changed after he went back in time: Doc retroactively became unshot by having a bullet-proof vest that wasn't there before, Marty's home is the same until he goes back in time and then it changes around the family. Marty is unaltered having been the one going through time affecting things. The way Marty's photo changes and the newspapers and matchbook change the other things change also. Or perhaps Doc doesn't change to having a bullet-proof vest until Marty comes back so, luckily, he decided to come back earlier and THAT saved Doc.
I have a couple of questions about this theory. First, why would doc have to kill the new Marty by sending him back in time to the Jurassic age or whatever? Why couldn't he just send new Marty to, like, 200 years in the future? The paradox that threatens the universe or whatever only happens if you run into yourself. We have seen in the second movie that Marty can interact with his son in the second movie, even talking to him, without repercussions. Therefore, his grandchildren or great-grandchildren should not be a problem. Furthermore, knowing everything he now knows about time travel, he would most likely find somewhere to live where no one's heard of the McFlys. Marty could live quite happily, if somewhat disfunctionally, in the 2250s, for example, couldn't he? Also, I was wondering, the whole premise of the second movie is that you can't come face-to-face with yourself when time traveling without risking causing a paradox that will distort the universe, right? But my question is, doesn't this happen when Jennifer runs into herself in her future house? They both see each other and faint, yet the universe remains intact. Can someone please explain this to me? And on that note, 2015 Biff travels back in time and has a WHOLE CONVERSATION with 1955 Biff and nothing happens, except the timeline is altered, so 1985 Biff is a millionaire. Again, no destroying of the universe, no ruining the space-time continuum or whatever. Please explain, someone. I have these questions, but I don't know where else to post them.
Doc was wrong about the space time continuum being destroyed if you come in contact with your other self, remember? Jennifer came in contact with future Jennifer and they just passed out. Also, as per doctor who law, becoming a time traveler makes you impervious to the effects of altered timelines when you go back and forth between them. So Marty and Doc were immune to being changed by the alterations that took place.
That's not how the time travel works in back to the future. Marty came back to witness himself leave it doesn't even cause a loop because everything works out. The changes are small.
Remember the scene where Marty almost fades away on stage during the dance. What restores him is the fact that his parents will produce him - that is, they're going to produce New Marty (_not_ Old Marty). If New Marty were destined to be killed, that scene would make no sense. The only way it makes sense is that the person standing on stage from that moment forward _is_ New Marty. He just doesn't have the memories of New Marty's childhood (perhaps they haven't yet caught up with him through the space-time continuum). So, within the logic of the movie, there's one Marty in '55, and New Marty still must get there in order to be that person. This still leaves us with the mystery of whether he transforms into Old Marty when he gets there, or if not, how events still play out the way they're supposed to. But presumably those things are enough "in the details" that the broad strokes of the story can still work out. And of course, at the end of the day we're not meant to think about it too hard.
One thing you do learn in all the movies is TIME IS NOT INSTANTANEOUS It adjusts itself to prevent paradoxes, that's why when "Old Marty" comes back, time still needed to adjust itself towards him, meaning a timeline without a Marty. And that is why in the second movie when "Old Biff" came back from the past to the future and Marty, Doc and Jennifer remained in the same timeline like nothing happened because time didn't catch up to them yet. I't also explains why Marty was the last to disappear in the photo in the first movie. And for Cracked I would like to ask this: 1) When Marty came back in time 10 minutes earlier and saw the Delorean go back in time who did he see? "New Marty"? or maybe Young Marty. 2) If Doc did intentionally kill "New Marty"/"Young Marty" or vice versa, "New Marty"/"Young Marty" killed himself, what would that mean for "Old Marty"? That he went back in time and saw his own death? THINK OF IT
You aren't thinking fourth dimensionally. there isnt an "extra" Marty. the 'new' Marty present when old Marty returns to the mall scene goes back to the same moment old Marty went to. Those events must all still take place in order for time to remain in its altered frame. Suspicion over him still being the type of person who would end up in that situation is somewhat valid. But him travelling to 1955 wouldn't generate an additional Marty in the era. Also, there isn't a second Marty in 1955 until the events of the second movie have taken place. while the time machine exists, it controls the forward continuity of time. The paradox here would be in the fact that as Marty travelled back and fourth between 1955 and 1985 it would likely create a feedback loop. Each version of himself would make different decisions because of different life experiences resulting potentially in different outcomes. Things as small as playing a different song in place of Johnny Be Good might result in an alteration of the final outcome. It is therefore possible that there were hundreds of unseen recurrences of the events of the first film until a state of normalcy was finally reached and time was able to flow forward beyond this Nexus point. This likely wouldn't be true of the second film, as the footprint left by doc and Marty is a much smaller one. One important thing I always like to include in any time travel debate is this fact: You can't break the rules of space time. if time travel is possible, then it is. Physics allows for it. which means there is no possible outcome or interaction which would "destroy space time". Just as a roller coaster can go through a loop and return to an adjacent point in its track, time too would follow the traveller. meaning Marty could go back to 1955, kill his parents, and return to 1985 and live out his days without disappearing. Because the 1972 (approx) where he was born still existed in the 'track' before he looped back and killed his parents. He was still born in a previous time line and the universe doesn't need to delete him in order to " be okay". This is a logical fallacy created by the limitations of the human brain. Not physics.
So what yer sayin is this event yer talkin bout caused there to be alternate timelines different Marty's went to depending on their decisions and other small factors
there is no "new marty" he's the same marty he just has different memories because he existed in a different timeline. and we never actually saw "old doc" die so for all we know time is just one big loop and so original doc never actually died because marty always went back to warn him
Estelle its like the grandfather theory. you can't go back and kill your grandfather (unless you become your own grandfather) "new marty" would never exist without "old marty" changing his parents timeline so new marty can't exist
You guys aren't thinking 4th dimensionally
Stigma 5th dimensionally actually
Stigma Yeah, they have a real problem with that
Kal El no the 4th dimension is time there is no 5th dimension
Kal El: If you don't get this reference, you haven't seen the movies
I got the reference, I was simply pointing out that technically it's the Fifth dimension that has relations with time and relativity.
THIS is why Rick and Morty is done with dimensions instead of time.
Regarding the second Marty, the first Marty grew up hearing about how George was run over by a car and Lorraine felt sympathy for him. Original Marty changed this so second Marty may have grown up with the story that some kid got run over by Lorraine's dad and helped Lorraine and George to find each other. So when second Marty sees George in the tree, he hides and waits for this mysterious kid to appear. George falls out of the tree, the mysterious kid isn't there to push him out of the way and George is run over, thus essentially creating a new timeline that's very much like the original timeline, with Lorraine feeling sorry for George.
Second Marty would have told Doc what happened and Doc would realise that the future could change but since George and Lorraine would be together due to Lorraine feeling sorry for George, the kids would all still be born and there'd be nothing for second Marty to do except hang around with Doc until he's ready to go home.
So essentially, the original Marty goes from having loser parents and a mediocre existence (albeit with a hot girlfriend) to having confident parents and a good life while the second Marty goes from having confident parents and a good life to having loser parents and a mediocre life.
Not true as that story would not have been told as George would never tell Lorraine that he was perving from a tree, as far as he is concerned noone knows so why tell them? Marty would still come across the peeping incident and would still see the car and make the take the same actions, he never went there because of the car, the car appeared and after the fact he realised it was that event not prior. Marty's knowledge of the event had nothing to do with his actions if anything if he had remembered prior it would stop him from saving his dad due to Doc's warnings and then they'd have a different way of working on getting George to 'Man up' so to speak without the whole his mom falling for her son thing.
BTTF can be viewed as a universe that has a two-dimensional time continuum. The first conventional time dimension is unidirectional like our own, but is subject to alteration by backward time travel events. The second "epochal" time dimension is also unidirectional, and records the evolution of the conventional timeline as it is altered by those time travel events. We can expect the conventional timeline is subject to continuous microscopic alteration by sub-atomic anti-particles which travel backwards in time. These alterations cause the timeline to spontaneously evolve along the epochal time dimension. When 1985 Marty time travels back to 1955, he creates a macroscopic discontinuity in the epochal time dimension, dramatically altering all subsequent evolution of the conventional timeline in the epochal time dimension.
We can envision Doc's personal timeline evolving in epochal time in the same manner. Doc's initial attempts to create a time machine fail, and the conventional timeline remains unchanged. At some point in the evolution of the timeline, Doc succeeds, and the timeline is henceforth altered by 1985 Marty's trip back to 1955. Since the epochal time dimension is unidirectional, it is not possible to reverse the evolution of the conventional timeline and restore its previous unaltered state. It is only possible to make additional macroscopic changes to the timeline by subsequent trips into the past.
In BTTF2, Biff's trip from 2015 back to 1955 causes Marty's altered timeline to evolve into the nightmare 1985 timeline. This prompts post-1985 Doc & Marty to make another trip back to 1955, and they force the timeline to evolve into something resembling Marty's first alteration of the timeline. Note however, that this is not a "restoration" of the timeline back to what it was at the end of the first BTTF movie. It is a third major alteration of the timeline, one that happens to produce similar personal histories as Marty's first alteration.
Nah, without the mysterious kid showing up, the second Marty would just push George out of the way himself.
Hahahaha great point!!!
My theory is second marty actually starts a timeloop where he still finds his dad in the tree, gets run over by the car, and then this time realizes he is calvin, then does the same stuff as original marty for the rest of the film, then marty 3,4, etc have the same story as him creating a time loop
Before anyone rants in the comments, let us all agree that no matter the paradoxical implications, Back to the Future is still amazing and iconic and always will be
To be honest, I just thought this whole thing through in a lot of detail as well as compared to other things I realized about the movie in the past, and I don't think this movie will ever completely lineup. The fact that Marty changes the past will always cause problems that would pretty much destroy the timeline in some way or another. Especially considering that even if Doc does tell the new version of Marty to do exactly what the old Marty did and then got rid of him, it still wouldn't explain why the old Marty existed in the first place if the timeline is different if it replaced the old one. I don't think the two timelines can exist simultaneously either ,because then the old timeline would be lacking a Marty when he's in the new timeline
So you're very right, it's best not to fight about it, because there doesn't seem to be an answer that fixes everything.
@@randomusername429 it doesn't matter anyway in real life because traveling back in time is impossible. If it was, it would create paradoxes which would destroy the universe. And because the universe isn't destroyed, it means those paradoxes never happened because no one ever traveled back in time because traveling back in time isn't possible. There's a slight chance that traveling forward in time may be possible if getting cyrogenically frozen could happen, but even that is a huge challenge to science because no one yet has figured out how to freeze a body in place without it running out of oxygen and dying. If no one or no animal has ever been able to be frozen in ice for extended time and then come out of it still alive, then the same issues to the body would be whether frozen cyrogenically or frozen in ice, whether frozen still in anything. And if that ever would become possible, there wouldn't be any of those paradoxes because there still would never be two of the same person alive at the exact same time if done the cyrogenically frozen way.
It is amazing yes
Greatest time travel movie of ALL-TIME!😌(pun intended)
@@billboedits yeah, Back to the Future is one of my favorite movies ever. I really love it.
Actually, if new Marty went anywhere but the fifties, it would create either a paradox or a new dimension (pick your poison) because then there would be no Marty to repeat the actions of old Marty. It's confusing, but your past self must follow your exact path to achieve the universe you live in. Any deviation, and you never happened. When old Marty made the jump to the past, old doc was wearing the bullet proof vest; Marty just left too soon to see it. There is no old and new doc or Marty; they are both the same and act the same. They are the same person, so they make the same decisions in the same situations. This video sees time travel as a way of traveling between dimensions instead of just time periods.
+Rudy Poirier Back to the future 2 shows what happens when biff steals the delorean the result is an alternate history. so unfortunately cracked is right on this one
+Rudy Poirier New marty is a weak nerd, he didn't experience the same things old marty had to experience being independent,.. new marty was spoiled and secluded,.. doc sends him back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc prosedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enroles in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc prosedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enroles in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc prosedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enroles in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950
+inventor121 I hope you saw the deleted scenes from BTTF2; they are on the 2002 DVD release. After Biff returns the Delorean, you clearly see he is sick, breaking his cane, and staggering away. What you don't see is him couching by a house and slowly fade away. The commentary explains that Lorraine shot Biff in 1990, and therefore, Biff would not exist in 2015. The scene was cut because test screenings proved people did not know why Biff would disappear.
Rudy is right on this one. Marty did not severely alter the timeline as drastically as Biff. Biff changed the timeline for his own benefit. Marty merely tried to restore the timeline to original by manipulating what was already supposed to happen.
+Adam Gardner So how was Biff able to return to the same future he came from? Shouldn't he have returned to a future where he was long dead?
+fireyf How was Marty able to talk to his father after he saved him from being hit by a car? Remember, that's how Lorraine fell in love with him. The prevention should have made Marty unable to return to a future where he would not exist...
First Rule of Time-Travel movies. Don't try to think about it. (or your head will explode)
well duh everyboody knows that my friend
*thinks about Time-Travel movies* .... *Head explodes*
GeneralDerp damn now someone is going to have to clean that up.
ki11bunny *there would be a glowing light* It's GeneralDerp for the future! In the future they brought me back to life! I'm here to tell you NOT to think about Time trav- *himself and everyone thinks on them and their head explodes* D: *Jesus swoops down* Hmm, If i travel back in time- * Head explodes*
GeneralDerp Seriously do not care about the person that has to clean all this shit up??
Once Marty decided to go back early he created an infinite time loop.
well no since the loop ends, it is more like a time scenic route,
it's the Ocarina of Time: Song of Storms paradox, Oot Link needed the Song of Storms to progress but didn't even know about it let alone had it, so he eventually left Hyrule in defeat and while wandering in the lost woods ended up in Termina and stopped the moon from falling. During that adventure he learned the Song of Storms from... Flat? or was it Sharp? well anyway the composer brother's of that version of Hyrule's ghosts and when he returned to Hyrule after the child timeline of OoT but before the Adult timeline he played it in chagrin in the windmill and created a split in time where he Schrödinger catted the song, since the past him in the future both had it and didn't. So Navi had to recreate the trip into Termina in the Child timeline to stop time from fracturing more than Zelda's three timelines.
Another perfect example is the loop d loop in Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate zero which required his travel into the B timeline so that he could bring the active timeline into the "Steins;Gate" timeline and at the same time also required him to not save Kurisu in Timeline A and later make a Physical time machine to go back and save her since a physical Time machine was necesary to even be able to change Kurisu's death in the first place.
time loops are more like terminator, terminator only exists because of the attempt to kill the people that could stop the terminators.... they are full on paradoxical, no start or end.
Nope
There's no plot hole here guys, think about coherence and predestination.
Doc befriended "new Marty" so he can send him back to '55, so there's a marty that can return to '85 and become "new marty".No matter how you look at it, no marty is lost, an the only time there are 2 marty's is a brief period when new marty comes back and sees old marty leave for '55,Continuity is fully preserved, except for the minor changes in the timeline, with the family being rich and shit
Padurariu Catalin the Theory of Conservation of Marty?
+Padurariu Catalin New marty is a weak nerd, he didn't experience the same things old marty had to experience being independent,.. new marty was spoiled and secluded,.. doc sends him back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc precedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enrolls in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son of a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty meets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc precedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enrolls in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son of a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950 where one of docs former versions is waiting for him with all the advance plastic surgery of the future,.. doc precedes to change new marties face and body and renames him George mcfly, George(new marty) enrolls in school and falls in love with his mom and has 3 kids,.. one of his kids is himself... this son ends up being the son or a nerdy dad and has to be strong and independent,.. he goes on to meet doc ,.. doc send him to 55 where he meets nerdy dad and changes him into a less nerdy dad... this dad goes on to have 3 kids,.. one he names marty, that becomes spoiled, and sheltered,.. this nerdier marty mets doc brown, goes back to 1950
So therefore in 1955, there would be Original Marty doing everything we saw in Movie 1, Movie 2 Marty (wearing the hat & looking for the sports book) and also New Marty hiding from the other two Martys.
More likely Doc sent New Marty to 1890 so original Doc can build the flying time machine that appeared mysteriously at the end of third movie.
Monkey Magic I think new marty went back to 1950 and got plastic surgery and was renamed George mcfly and doc enrolled him into high school, where he meets his wife ellane and later on gives birth to himself.
+Monkey Magic
There is no "new Marty". In the second movie, a later version goes back to 1955 and keeps a low profile so his original self doesn't see him.
Even if Marty had become 'different' due to an improved family situation, there would still just be the one that got to the past escaping the Libyans along with his later self chasing after the almanac.
The Marty you see going to the 50s at the end of the first movie is the same Marty as the one watching from the mall sign, only they're about a week apart (even though they're both calling October 26, 1985 their home time).
I just figured that new Marty went back and followed the events as old Marty had. That's why, when old Marty goes back the the 50's again, he has to avoid himself there as well. Then New Marty goes back to the 80's and old Marty does his thing.
Exactly. I don't understand how they don't get that. There is no second Marty or Doc. They're are just in a cyclonic loop.
That's exactly what I tought. I mean, if you send new Marty to his death, who is gonna fix old Marty's timeline? They have to continiously fix eachother's timelines on an infinite loop in orther for them to survive. It's what I would call a fixed point in time.
But it can't be an exact replicated loop because they displayed in the movies that tampering with events of history cause changes in the future, therefore it's impossible for Marty to go back and do the exact same thing because the Marty of that timeline doesn't need to do any of it because it's already been done by old Marty.
TheSuperKing OfAnime
There is the theory of Fixed points in Time that says that however you mingle with the past, the moment in the future you came from can't be changed. So, even tho the New Marty is, well, a new Marty with a new personality and all that, what ever it is he does when going back to the past doesn't matter, as going back to the future is a fixed point in time, creating the infinite loop. Or, maybe, Marty's personality is a fixed point in time.
At the same time, some people say that the time machine itself gives Marty the ability to retein his memories, placing him in a "out of time" state due to traveling inside it (OUTATIME is also written on the back of the car in the first movie).
***** That still doesn't explain how new Marty and old Marty's personalities are so similar that the new McFly's just accepted his honest confusion about their circumstance as being ill, Doctor.
They are wrong, that wasn't a second marty, that was marty from the begining of the movie he traveled forward in time just before he traveled back in time watching himself travel back in time from the start. This is like a window, or think of portal, you all think there is two martys when it is only his time reflection, preception of time to us is linear. Think back to the second movie, marty's girlfriend is left in the bad present but when they fix the trouble caused by biff, she is altered. This goes for Marty from the first movie, because they went back in time a second time, Marty's original time travel is altered. Even though we precieved Marty's first travel one way, ultimately that instance is altered to make Marty equal to the present Marty. Remember time doesn't stop when they travel. Einstein doesn't die for that solitary minute, he is merely time jumped, causing him to be removed from existence atomicly only to be re-configured in the next minute. By going back the second time Marty changed the atomic flux of his first atomic flux. Thank you flux compacitor the key to time travel, or in reality time altering....
Meaning that free will was always ours, the time machine merely by existing took that away from us, therefor it was destroyed but doc brown makes a new time traveling device doing the same thing, so why does that not take away our free will? Technically the doc and the school teacher altered their fates by having the time machine alter their time lines, so technically the were written out of existence making the fabric of time their personal playthings, and those little brats couldn't exist without the time alter so that makes the time machine god. (plus the kids do talk there was a crappy cartoon show about the doc family time traveling and it sucked balls)
Jason Miller Remember this is all theoretical....
Why not a time loop with the same tangent? I.e. Marty NOT crashing into the Rolls-Royce, NOT living in Hilldale, NOT having a fuck-up for a son and NOT getting fired. the same tangent occurs because the sequence of events never changes. like a pulsar. with each rotation it sends out a pulse. The rotation is the time loop involving the BTTF Trilogy and the pulse is the tangent by which Marty has an improved future......Food For Thought.
I'm pretty sure that old Marty and new Marty would HAVE TO be exactly the same in every way, that's the way that makes the most sense. They couldn't kill new Marty because then Old Marty shouldn't exist. All of the original events that lead to him being born have been altered, so new Marty still has to go back in time to become old Marty and old Marty (whose memories oddly aren't altered) just has to get a feel for what's different quickly and live his life from where new Marty left off.
So really, the only oddity is that Marty still remembers his pre-timetravel life as it was rather than as the changes he made in the 50's made it.
But while we're at it, that really only factors in the 1st movie and part of the 2nd. Did the changes that Marty made to prevent the Biff future really make the 80's turn out exactly the same as when he made the changes to the 50's the first time? And what about when he went back to the late 1800's? Did his interference back then really not change the 80's from his original changes either, or the 50's for that matter? If there were any changes, they were too minor to notice.
The timey-whimey-ness of the time vortex explains this problem.
You see time is a series of fixed points, how we get to those fixed points does not matter, as long as we get to them and they happen.
When Marty went back in time he fixed the fixed points he disrupted. But the income status of Marty & his siblings was not fixed, just his mother kissing his father at the prom. Because of his time traveling in the time vortex, Marty is partially immune to time line changes. He remembers the old time line. In time he will forget most of the old time line.
Watch an eposide of Doctor Who.
Timey-wimeyness has never actually been objectively explained as anything more than a catchy term for a hand-wave.
Doctor Who's time travel and Back To The Future' time travel are two completely different versions of Time Travel, with Doctor Who's time travel having fixed and non fixed points (If they show didn't have this, the amount of paradoxes created in one episode would drive any writer insane), whilst Back To The Future has a different method that's a bit harder to explain.
or he is just flat out immune to changes, see Steins;gate or the Mandela effect(real world "Phenomenon"/belief) just imagine it's a symptom not of forgetfulness but instead of time line shift immunity.
My dad and I were discussing this the other day. What happens when the Marty from the end of the movie goes back to 1955 and how is it that the Marty we followed throughout the whole movie doesn't seem like he's missed? My rationale was that he just took the place of Marty who goes to 1955 and the moment the DeLorean disappears, the timeline is changed. It's so confusing LOL
Isn't it the same Marty, he was unaffected because he wasn't in 1985 when the timeline switched, he was out of the timeline, thereby unaffected by the change.
But there was the Marty his parents were raising from when they changed in the fifties. Marty upon arriving back in the eighties had no memories of his parents not being losers as he was growing up, but the parents remember him. Therefore there has to be the Marty his changed parents remembered. The "new" Marty.
Why would he be unaffected this Marty is literally shown to have a completely different life so yes he is a different Marty I mean that'd make sense if he's like somehow deleted from the timeline until old Marty come back but he isn't they clearly show the new Marty driving off.
Honestly, they didn't think that hard. Its suppose to be the same marty as he does the exact same thing before driving off.
JustCause I Said So
Tough call. It's a future movie involving top of the line production teams. Which means, yes, they probably didn't think that hard! lol
Doc trainned mike monent together 2324skittles ..
Best movie trilogy ever. Just gonna throw that out there.
2nd one sucked boring plot for me
idk it just one of those thing you don't like at first but once you watch it or listen to it again you began to understand it more
sorta im understanding the plot now but something is keeping me from liking it like one of those "ehhh" moments
xenomorph101AJ
the 2nd one was my favorite but i still wish that they made the 4th that the guy who played doc wrote
still the 2nd ones just 50/50 but its just kinda boring for me some how
The only thing that was proven about the 2nd Marty Mcfly was that his growth and what influenced him was not dependent on his parents. This is blatantly apparent by his disconnect with the original state of his family. Marty's state of mind and how he developed must have been directly linked to Doctor Brown's. So in essence, it's not that the 2nd Marty dropped off the face of the earth, but that he is completing an endless cycle of going back in the past and then seeing a version of his previous self go back in the past at a later date. This isn't to say that they are all the same Marty though, in fact the series as a whole proves it is just the opposite.
Consider that the paradox in the space time continuum doesn't occur as he says it does when past and present Jennifer see each other. That future is one that was shaped by a present/past where they did not know what would happen in the future, and the Delorean simply chose the most relevant timeline. This is why the future Jenny didn't know she would bump into the present Jenny, because that present Jenny will create an alternate future in which she won't bump into a Jenny from the past.
What is known for sure about the time machine though is that it doesn't actually go through time and that it instead travels through dimensions (space & time). This is relevant by the fact that in Back to the Future 2, the Marty of the skewed timeline was at boarding school. This means that the Delorian doesn't just seek out the correct time frame but one that is relevant to the current status of the past. This is why Jennifer was fine on the porch in the skewed timeline since they were put in a timeline where she was left there but the timeline hadn't been skewed. This is also extremely evident by what Doc Brown says in the third movie when he says that the future isn't written and that it is what you make of it, which means that time is irrelevant and that the future (dimensions) is shaped by choices.
correct
Read on the alternate marty many a times.. but in a way the marty marty 1 sees travelling to 1955 potentially is the same marty but been broguhtup with a different attitude of parents could make him different. so when he goes back to 1955 Martys personality may make things paly out differently, he may get back to the future but an easier or harder way.. He may not be bothered bout being called chicken etc
so we assume doc isn't wearing a vest and dies in the 1st timeline but infact he did wear one as he awoke ONLY after marty left so marty assumed he died. this proves your theory. We think all the time travel stuff started when the movie started but in fact its already been happening. we assume the 1st marty is the 1st marty but its not. the marty we see in the start of the movie met doc at really young age. A doc who already met with a previous marty in 1955. why do you think it took 30 years to "invent" the time machine when he already invented the flux capacitor in 1955. he knew he was supposed to meet up with marty later so he waited about 30 years. its indeed a timeloop running on different dimensions/realities. and your right, its not the same marty. the marty from the past before bttf1 i just mentioned was probably in a different scenerio when he met with the doc. but he indeed had a time machine to see resulting in the first timeline you see in BTTF1
I too suddenly came to realize that Doc probably somehow offed the "new Marty" so that "old Marty" returning from 1955 could take his place. The second time around (if you understand), Doc may have carefully programmed the time machine so that whenever the target date "1955" is entered, the DeLorean actually goes to (say) 2025 and sets off a powerful bomb hidden in the car immediately after arrival. This takes care of "new Marty" without risking any alternations to the past, and conveniently allows "old Marty" to take his place in the unsuspecting family who never understands that their REAL son is gone forever. Instead they've got a changeling who is actually the last relic of a now-defunct, overwritten universe.
While pretending to be a friend of "new Marty" raised in a happy family, Doc was actually thinking of him as an artifact of time travel and carefully figured out how to eliminate him so that his (Doc's) friend from 1955 could take over as seamlessly as possible upon return to 1985. "Original Marty" is ALREADY embedded in the past, as demonstrated by the changes he caused, and if "new Marty" goes to 1955 as well, they will likely BOTH be killed as two DeLoreans from two different versions of 1985 try to materialize at the same spot and same moment in 1955. To preserve the past as it now exists, and still preserve Doc's foreknowledge that he must take steps to save himself from the terrorists, NEW MARTY MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT GO TO 1955 and mess up the timeline even more.
Face it: Doc somehow sent New Marty to his death and let Original Marty take his place. George and Lorraine never understood that on a fateful night in 1985, their son was cynically eliminated and replaced by a quite different Marty from a very different version of the McFly family.
Lol
that's so dark
I love it
That's not true, New marty went back in time so the plot of the main movie happens, old Marty appered after new Morty went back in time, otherwise old Marty would die
I actually go with that whole "history repeats itself" thing.
I mean if new Marty died, wouldn't the old technically cease to exist (if time were to catch up to him)?
I figured new Marty went back to 1955 & just (maybe not 100% accurately) experienced the same events as old Marty.
New Marty probably would try to change George when he saw how much of a wuss he was.
Of course, this is all just assumptions & what not.
Maybe Doc sent Marty to the year 3000 to prevent more past changes.
this was already proven in BTTF2, when they were 2 martys in 1955. the marty going back to 1985 is the new marty that left in the DeLorean when 1st marty got back at the end of BTTF1. it is indeed a timeloop. Doc of 55 in BTTF1 must of met marty very young and manipulate the course of the night of the deloreon. why did it take doc thirty years to build the deloreon. its cause he knew he was supposed to build it in 30 years. We assumed Doc died in the original timeline but it was the same doc that woke up after 1st marty left
@@TWCPepsi everybody seems to forget that martyB (caused by martyA making the wealthy B timeline) travels to 1955 and should see martyA.
"Nay," said the horse.
xThe_noJx stole the words from my mou.... Fingers.
Bark says the dog
whyd they start screaming? was it because he drew the word and it was real?
Polybius11 I was wondering the same thing.
+Max Powers maybe realization that his name was one letter away from martyr and BAM! They start screamin
+Polybius11 Because they found out that Marty is after all, Jesus
Because new Marty is Jesus.
Specifically jesus after he came back to life
I really really expected this to be better...
that's what your mom said.
You just burned your self man, nobel sacrifice.
What a martyr!
...said 60 million trump voters.
Jen B exactly
There isn't a new or old Marty, there's just one Marty. What you refer to as "old Marty" (Marty before he time-travels) becomes what you call "new Marty" over the course of the movie you just watched. Sure the conditions Marty grew up in in 85 were different because of what he did and would do in 55, but he's the same Marty. He grows up to be the same person regardless of if he's raised by a couple of dorks, a best-selling sci-fi author, or Biff as Donald Trump: Marty is a constant of the universe.
+Mike D Or 'New' Marty wound up in the 1955 of 'Old Marty's' timeline and caused the events that lead to Biff being George's boss and George being a spineless suckup. So when 'New Marty' got back home, it would be to find himself living 'Old Marty's' life.
+The Batman That's what I was thinking, too. Two Martys, stuck forever looping back to 1955 and switching lives when they are 17 years old.
Talamasca007 Maybe not looping. But the Marty we follow is the only one who's going to have further adventures in time travel, because the 1985 the second Marty returns to is the one with the dead Doc Brown.
+The Batman The Marty we follow creates the world that results in the 2nd Marty. The 2nd Marty takes his trip to 1955 and fouls things up. Because he grew up hearing a very different version of how his parents met, 2nd Marty encourages Biff to bully on George and lust after Loraine, resulting the world in which the first Marty grows up. It's not future trips that cause the loop in this scenario: it's the one (infinitely repeating) trip from 1985 to 1955. Each Marty goes back and recreates the structure of his successor's life, and assumes that life upon his return to 1985.
Talamasca007 How are they continuously repeating? It is not a time loop because if it were, Marty's life would be stuck repeating the first movie ad infinitum, but as we see it is not, his life moves on.
Both Martys travel back to the 1955 of their counterpart's parent's lives and merely act as the pivotal points in that timeline as they are meant to. Mart 1's actions in the 1955 we see him visit are part of that reality's history. His actions have not changed anything, they are part of what is meant to happen in that world. Once he's done and uses the Delorean again, he's in Marty 2's Universe. There is no need for a time loop and no reason for one to exist.
My theory is that new Marty had his life with his new and loving family, and he travelled through time to realise that he was the cause of their meeting. In other words, the rest of the time travels become a time loop. The difference between old Marty and new Marty is that Marty notices the changes in his timeline, and new Marty doesn't, as he already lives in it. Old Marty changes his timeline, and new Marty simply restores it.
New Marty maintains his timeline, you are right.
George McFly becomes a hugely successful science fiction writer but still lives in the same house in an alternate future?
alitlweird why do you assume just becuase someone is rich, they want a big house?
Come to think of it - this would've made an interesting idea for a possible sequel. Let's say that the Original Marty comfortably sets in to a life that technically belongs to someone else - the New Marty. But instead of killing off New Marty, what if somehow, going back in time to 1955 was the intended event that erased said Marty from existence - but instead of completely vanishing, he just ends up in some sort of paradoxical plane where nothing exists.
Miraculously manages to get back to 1985 of his own universe, and sees this complete stranger just move into his new life and replaced him. He could show up demanding his old life back.
Actually you got it all wrong. Doc was the only one who had a bird's eye view of the new timeline Marty had created in 1955. He watched this new timeline unfold over the next 30 years (from 1955 to 1985). He also had not only a working knowledge of the what changes Marty had made in the past, but during that period (1955-1985) Doc would have to be aware of the fact he would be taking Marty into 2015 eventually (having been told all this by the Marty who was trapped in 1955 after the lightning struck the Delorean).
So, Doc knew he could not alter the events of the first time jump at the mall, not without further polluting the timeline.
What you don't understand, is that Doc, having met both versions of Marty in 1955, would know what changes Marty had made to his parents. The problem here, however, is a single punch by George at the dance would NOT substantially change Biff's personality, not with the results we see at the end of back to the future.
Something ELSE must have happened to George, Biff, and Lorraine in 1955 to result in such drastic personality traits. (A punch would not have done this).
Enter the SECOND Marty we see go back in time at the end of the movie. Doc would have known that Marty's changes did not result in enough personality changes to Marty's parents to explain their drastic alterations. He would have known that the second Marty was going to end up FURTHER altering his parents, even more than the first Marty did. He would have known that he MUST send this second Marty back to 1955 as well, but he would have sent him back at a date and time AFTER he had sent Marty to 1885 to save himself.
I have written an entire screenplay outlining the time jump of the second Marty, and showing what contributions he made to the future Marty ends up in when he returns to 1985 at the end of the movie.
www.scribd.com/doc/266500056/The-Future-Is-Back-Back-to-the-Future-sequel-and-remake
I read it and it was cool
Adam Vogel Thanks it's like only half finished, it's meant to be a novel when it's done. I have missing dialogue and the format goes to synopsis style part of the way through, but still, I think it's a great story.
I think I know what made Biff so benevolent to George. It wasn't the punch, it was the attempted rape of Lorraine that George witnessed. George could have told Biff that he wasn't going to go to the cops, and used this incident to his advantage.
We are Squirrel Since the statute of limitations in most States for rape is about 5 years, that would not have still worked in 1985.
Other than a few grammar issues here and there, this was a really great story!!! You ever consider trying to submit it to Universal Studios?
You forget that the whole thing was just an accident. He didn't decide to travel back to the fifities to sort of "set things right". It just happened in the heat of the moment. Actually, Doc is the one initiating all of this with Marty just kinda stumbling through the whole mess right into the fifities, if I remember it right. So it could be reasoned that maybe Old Doc was setting Old Marty up to make room for yet another Marty from an entirely different time-line.
Or the new Marty goes far into the future where there is no Marty or doc. Doc sent Marty to 2308!
The Plains Jam maybe he is on future docs train in back to the future 3.
OMG he is the same Marty! He's Goin BACK TO THE...
He might have went to Uranus ha
To be honest you're just over thinking the time travel in those movies, new Marty just went back and recreated the timeline same as always, every time they travel through time they're just shifting themselves into a separate dimension.
So the original timeline still exists? There's a version of the universe where Marty just disappeared one day and doc got shot by terrorists?
CutTheSkit yeah,
Like 1985B and such
Back to the Future loop holes, paradox's and failed plots. Please attempt to explain any or all.... (just some fun things I always thought about growing up watching these movies)
1) Did Marty or Chuck Barry write/compose/create "Johny B Good"? Marty heard it from Chuck, Chuck heard it from Marty...
2) If the people (siblings and Marty) disappear from the photo that means someone took a random picture of a tree and bush? Also, they faded, that means at one specific second they were "almost" created. Either they exist or they didn't. Weird form of narration.
3) Don't know about George McFly but I'd be highly pissed if my wife had a kid that looked just like a friend from high school. Did Marty's mom totally forget about the guy she tried to screw in the car during the big dance? Do girls regularly forget these things? What a ho!
4) Marty is returning to 1980 in a time machine... changes the time to allow himself enough time to warn Doc at twin pine mall... but still fails to make it in time. WTF?!!! Why return 10 mins earlier? what does that accomplish? Why not arrive a day or two earlier?
5) Marty asked his parents to name their child after him, and they did, shouldn't his older brother be named Marty then?
6) When Marty is realizing all the changes his actions in the past have effected "the present" his parents and siblings notice he is acting weird and asked if he was alright, so apparently there was another Marty living the altered life up till that point. There is the Marty that was raised by loser parents, and the Marty that was raised by hip cool confident parents who we never get to see. What happened to that preppy alternate Marty that the family is used to up until that moment? Basically, what happens when the actions or choices of an individual greatly effect that individual, which version is left standing?
7) There are three freakin time machines in the 1950's according to the trilogy. One in Docs garage, one in a cave waiting for Marty, another hovering watching from the sidelines. Each movie clearly shows a specific time machine "in play" during the 1950's.
8)Doc has to be the biggest douche of all time. He writes letters from 1880's to future Marty and Docs, but there's three movies following chronological time lines of so much drama filled problems. Doc living in 1880 already knows terrorists will attack in the 1980's because he basically ripped them off. He already knows Marty will be stuck in the 1950's, and that he will die by Mad Dog Tanner in the next few days. Meanwhile there's a letter on someone's desk waiting for 1950's Doc and Marty. Geez, write some more information dipshit! You have all this knowledge and chose to send trivial information forward.
9) Epic Mind Fuck time!!! There are two time machines in the wild west. How did Doc get to the wild west past? Time Machine #1. Placed in a cave till discovered, Marty returns to save Doc... in a time machine... #2, while one is obviously still waiting for Marty in the future. If the time machine doesn't exist in the cave, Marty can't return, so the whole freakin time the Time machine is on the rail road being pushed, there has to be a time machine in the cave waiting for future Marty. I mean the time machine Doc arrives in the wild west didn't just disappear, and here comes Marty in a Time machine... WTF!
10) The whole point of Back to the Future 3 was Doc is trapped because the time machine is broke. They are about to return to the future when Doc is forced to chose to save the teacher or return. He stays to save the teacher. Marty arrives on the train tracks in the present in the time Machine. Then WTF!!!! Doc shows up in a completely built time machine from a FUCKING train!!!! He can't repair the time machine in 1880 but he can make a whole new one from scratch!!!???
Some good points. About #10, when Doc returns in his train time machine he is married with children, so obviously many years have passed. Doc lost all hope of returning when he was zapped back to the west originally but had a new spark of life when Marty showed up. He wasn't planning on staying at the end, he had to because of Clara's dumbass. He spent the next several years building a new machine so he could get back to his old time traveling ways.
thrilla69x meanwhile there's the initial time machine Doc arrived in sitting in the cave waiting for 1950's, and the one Marty arrived in they place on the train tracks to get back.
It's a mindf**k. If he didn't want Marty returning he could've fixed the one he arrived in. Or better yet, sent specific information in the letter how to fix the one he had, then they both could've left in separate machines.
1) Predestination paradox. No big deal. Just ask Kyle Reese
2) The picture was taken. Whether or not people were in the pic at the time wasnt the pictures problem.
3) If you, at the age of 47, can remember perfectly a face you saw for only one week 30 years previously, then you need to go on Jeopardy and win a million dollars
4) He had only seconds to make that decision. Had he not been rushed and stressed, he would have thought it out better.
5) He didnt say WHICH kid to name...
6) Lost in time. Bummer. But yes, the one at the end of the timeline is the winner
7) Cool huh. Just like the Futurama movie, Bender's Big Score. There's about 1000 Benders at one moment.
8) "He" already survived the terrorist attack. No need to warn "himself" of what, from his point of view, is over with and done. And who would he have warned about Tannen? He still has to save HIMSELF first, before he can sit on his ass and write letters.
9) Thats no big deal. The time machine just did a loop thru the 1880's. Just another day at the office.
The only flaw there, is that if I were them, I would have broke into the cave to suck gas out of Machine #1 (broken time circuit), so I could power up Machine #2 (fixed time circuit), seal the cave back up and gotten the heck out of dodge.
10) Cause he had more time to think about it. When Marty rescued him, he's only been there 8 months. But when the Doc comes back with the train, its been 8 YEARS (judging by the age of the kids). He settled down, got to work, and solved the problem with all the time he needed.
SpreadingtheMuse
1) Naming another poor example isn't an answer. But good point.
2) The picture was taken as a family photo featuring all 3 kids. The picture exists because of the implied intent.
3) No, it's not just a face from 45 years ago. High school dances, kisses, crushes, the boy dad hit with the car that one time how the keep reliving it at the dinner table in the beginning... she seems to remember it in detail. It's a "how I meet your mother" type story. Not to mention he made an epic impression on the town, car chases, skateboards... "isn't he a dream". Seriously it's a loophole.
4) It's a time machine. There's no excuse.
5) True, valid point.
6) Lost in time? A winner? Doesn't make sense. Are you saying one "failed" or "canceled" out into oblivion... but how?
7) Yes indeed, each one being 1000 years older then the next. The oldest Bender would've had to make the trip 1000's time so that the last can go once... if there's 1000 of them. Right? If you write or draw out the timeline of the Doelorian it's bewildering. And one goes missing. The one Doc showed up in.
8) Marty shows up saying you're gonna die next week. Obviously Doc knows the letter worked. At that moment he should realize he can send information forward and it would be instantaneous to him. Besides, if I know before hand I'm going to be shot by terrorists "on the night I go back" I would have reconsidered cheating and lying to them, and took more precautions to prepare. Just saying.
9) I think it's a big deal being a scientist trying to figure out how to get out of the wild west with a time machine in the cave and a time machine on the tracks. It's a WTF moment. I'm not even a mechanic and I realize if there are two cars, one has gas and one doesn't... duh.
10) It doesn't make sense, Marty didn't know he was in the past until 1955. 8 months, 8 years, 100 years... how much is enough?
Thanks for the reply!!!! I enjoyed reading your valid points.
Semper Fi
1) Kyle Reese is a GOOD example, not a poor one. Its been a sci fi trope for decades, because it works
2) The picture doesnt care what the motivations were, its just a moment in time that changes after the fact. In the logic of the movie, its independent of the origins
3) Your memory might be better than other peoples, but I can say that I wouldnt have any memory of a 30 year old face I only knew for a brief time.
The parents memories are likely based on the "first moment," which was in the parking lot with Biff. Marty wasnt involved in that memory, and from that point on the parents only cared about each other.
4) Stress is EVERY excuse! He's mad, frustrated, rushed, exasperated. Anyone who thinks straight in those circumstances is either lobotomized or a robot.
5) Thanks
6) A book which covers this territory is "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold. The novel gives a protagonist a time travel device and he uses it to scramble time to the nth degree. He discovered time was like an oil painting. You take an old painting (the timeline), splotch it with new paint (screw something up), and what you get, whether it makes sense or not, is what you get. The scene under the painting loses out to the mess on top of it.
Layers of paint. Layers of time screw ups.
7) Doc did say maybe 1955 was a time junction...
8) He can attempt to fiddle with "his past," but that turns into the "Devil you know" philosophy. Maybe if he hides better, maybe if he picks a different mall, then the lybians wont find him this time. Maybe....
But as "his past" stands now it works out fine. Scary, but he knows that if he does nothing... it works.
9) I dont have a problem with two time machines in the 1880's. Just the way the ball bounced. ONE of them had to get back to the future "the long way," as Bender would put it.
10) I think if you have to build a time machine from scratch...8 years is more useful than 8 months.
Doc had an immediate goal which needed done first: getting the schematics to 1955 and saving Marty. That was a definite chance for success (assuming Western Union came thru). Preparing the machine and hiding it took all his time in those 8 months (as well as getting settled into a new job)
THEN, with goal #1 complete, he could spend time on the goal with no guarantee at all for success. Maybe he could build a new machine and maybe he couldnt. But he didnt dare waste years doing that BEFORE he took care of the immediate problem.
Thanks
what you gotta remember is that there's different timelines. The original timeline is what you see at the beginning of the movie, with Marty's parents being depressed and shit. But as soon as Marty travels into the past and changes it, the original timeline is erased and a new timeline is created, the new timeline that Marty returns to. Since Marty experienced the old timeline, he still keeps the memories of it.
Am i the only one who finds this incredibly hard to actually follow?
No. It’s easier to follow the straight forward plot of the actual movie
Why does everyone assume that in a time travel movie where anything changes, "Past Marty" and "Future Marty" or "Past Doc" and "Future Doc" are some sort of quantum-produced clones, just because they occupy the same moment in time at once? They're the same person, with two different experiences. The Doc who was killed was the only Doc; so was the one who survived. Something changed so that he no longer died; its that simple. Similarly, Marty as he is in the altered future is simply "original" Marty's new past self, and he goes back in time to the 50s to do the same things he did, although admittedly from his perspective, its probably to ensure that things turn out the way he knows them. The end.
at the beginning of the movie Doc called Marty and said he needed Marty's assistance, because from Doc's point of view, Marty already gave him the letter, but Marty had to go back in time to give it to him.
We saw Doc get shot at the beginning, but his death was never confirmed. Marty did not know about the letter because he hadn't written it yet.
When Marty #1 returns to 1985, I'm thinking the revamped 1985 timeline doesn't actually go into effect until the moment Marty #2 travels into the past.
Idk if anyone has considered this but I always think of this scene as similar to the photo or marty's transparent hand earlier in the movie. Basically, the Marty in the Delorian and the Marty observing the scene from above are the same. What's happened is that the time ripple that Marty set in motion when he went back early hasn't caught up just yet. This probably happens when Marty runs up to Doc's "Dead body" and Doc opens his eyes to reveal the bulletproof vest. It is at this point that the timeline has corrected itself for the changes Marty made to this moment via the letter and his early return.
Sadly isnt true as the mall is already named "lone pine mall"
Is anyone else unclear on if they were screaming because of the revelation, or because giant glowing letters appeared and persisted in midair?
+louisonigawa i think its because of the latter
The idea that Marty travels back from the past to a changed future by effects of his doing in the first and second movies without realizing the changes that occur to his knowledge to his personal reality may assert the theory that Doc Browns' time machine not only can go back and forward in time but punches holes outside of time space, or non-time, in the idea of stepping out of a waterslide to go into another waterslide. If he knew how his upbringing would occur in each changed time line he wouldn't be surprised on the shocks shared with the audiences- nerd parents turned successes as siblings, Biff going from tool-bully- then pushover, Biff being his dad in Pt. 2. This leads to the probability that Marty may be an alternate reality Marty to a series of changed alternate realities. Ergo, Doc Browns' time machine can also go to alternate dimensions.
I figured it out. At the end of the movie, Old marty goes with doc into the future to save his family. But how can he have a future self if he has left the present and is absent for the next 20 years. The answer: when we see the "new" marty blast off to 1955 again, he actually isn't going to the past but rather hes going just a few days in the future, Just moments after the original marty and doc go to 2015. That way, "new" marty can resume his life, grow up, have a family, and original marty goes to the future to straighten up new marty's life.
This is the best explanation. The Marty and Doc we see in the third movie is the result of a myriad of Doc's working together subtly with the intention of putting "our" Marty in a universe where he can exist. Standing in the driveway staring at the truck was a sort of temporal storage, while New Doc worked out details with New Marty of what to do with our Marty. I think the end of part 3 with the train is another Doc dropping our Marty off in a universe similar to his own after possibly hundreds of years of research.
You figured it out holy shit
No. None of that makes any sense.
Marty has a future because after the 3rd movie he ends up back in his time, to live his future.
The only feasible solution is that new Marty went and lived thru the first movie only with subtle details changed.
Instead of the traditional story of how his parents met, he realized he was his parents long lost friend that saved his dad from getting hit by the car, and hooked his parents up just like the story he grew up listening to.
Therefor, he already knew the details and it just made sense.
But that means old Marty would have known too. Paradox much?
That mean's that after the initial change in timelines created the second timeline, that second timeline would infinitely be split into a new timeline, every time an old Marty came back, causing infinite clones of the same timeline.
Kyle Pack
You just made the same point you're attempting to refute. That is not the same Marty or the same Hill Valley. New Marty went somewhen. The explanation you've backed is flawed in that it assumes fixed events with no free will.
Look up Igor Novikov or Kip Thorne and their self consistent timeline theories.
What you said is completely different to what I'm saying. You are talking about characters working together to plot a solution. I am using actual quantum theories that were already made to resolve the grandfather paradox.
Mother nature (errrr.., father time?) works to resolve it's own problems in circumstances like these.
The only significant change made was the story of how Marty's parents united changed with the inclusion of "Calvin", and George growing a backbone.
Where your flaw lies is assuming there are 2 Marty's and there isn't. Only one but with infinite offshoots of realities all mirroring the second. Except for the first where Marty disappeared and Doc died...
The point is that even tho those movies are classic, the theories involved in the plot are mostly flawed. They didn't even need the train in the third movie. The Doc's Delorean STILL HAD GAS IN IT AND WAS IN THE SAME CAVE THAT MARTY HID HIS!!
I think of this within the multi-versal theory. Original Marty was the first in line to create the paradox. He goes back in time and shifts to the new timeline. The doc in the new timeline knows this and allows the mall event to happen, doesn't have to do much to make it happen. New Marty doesn't die, he is just shifted to a new timeline. Instead of improving his parents timeline, new Marty is now just maintaining the improved timeline. New Marty needs to travel back in time to maintain the new timeline. The more you change the more the multiverse will be disturbed, Dr. Brown needed Marty to repeat his adventure to keep as much of a balance as possible, using the unintentional actor that caused it. You don't destroy timelines, you only shift to new/alternate ones.
Why is there a poster of Alfred E. Neuman on the wall at MAD Magazine's primary competitor, Cracked?
I also like the drawing of Cody being slapped during his Star Wars argument with Michael.
This opens up a can of temporal worms.
Time Line A - Twin Pines Marty TPM
Time Line B - Lone Pines Marty LPM
Throughout the second and third act of BTTF1 Marty tracks the impact of his changes using the photo of his siblings. This narrative device establishes that meddling with history has a gradual effect on the future, altering earlier events first and later ones last of all. We see TPM’s older brother Dave and then sister Linda erased from the photo, then finally as the moment of the kiss arrives TPM himself begins to fade.
But even at this point all of TPM’s memories, personality and skills remain intact. TPM does state “I can’t play.” Leaving room to speculate he has lost the skill; but I interpret this as his intangibility preventing him from playing. So even up to the point of being erased from the time line TPM maintains the memories from Time Line A.
To quote from another Time Travel Movie - 12:01 (the short film) “Consciousness is an independent variable.” These memories remain, as we move into the end scenes in Time Line B where TPM shows confusion and shock at the changes in his parents and siblings.
From this observation we can see how Time Travellers appear cocooned from the changes, being out of their native time stream. TPM sets up multiple changes to his own personal history, yet no temporal effects alter his memories. His memories from Time Line A remain intact, through out the changes he creates in the first film, and even through the changes caused by Old Biff in the second film.
In Back to the Future 2 Biff’s use of the Time Machine occurs while TMP is currently a time traveller. Neither TPM nor Doc have their thoughts altered by Old Biff’s changes while they are in the future. They travel back from the Time Line B’s 2015 arriving in the 1985 of what we shall now call Time Line C
Time Line B - Old Biff
Time Line C - Casino Biff
When TPM and Doc return to 1985 from 2015 they unknowingly arrive in the darker Time Line C. While a time traveller is outside their own time the changes occur slowly progressing forward. Temporal Displacement, the state of moving between times may appear instantaneous, but that momentless break in continuity gives the time line opportunity to resolve any changes, in this instance the changes set in motion by Old Biff resolve and the time line is now Time Line C, anyone re-entering the time line from temporal displacement will return to the dark time line.
Back to the Future 3 doesn’t add much to this, but when we take into account Back to the future The Game (from Tell Tale Games) we see changes created in 1930 reshape the 1980’s again. Edna Strickland also causes changes in the 1800s that drastically alter the Hill Valley of the 1930’s, but in this instance the change is so massive that its effects are immediate, and only Doc and TPM’s cocoon of time travel protects them from being wiped out (but I speculate neither have long to fix this).
So how do any of these observations help to solve the fate of LPM?
I present to you the three hidden details that might…
1, There is a time traveller in Time Line A that is still cocooned
2, TPM is still cocooned throughout films 2 and 3 and the games
3, Doc is cocooned as of act two of the second film
In reverse order…
3 - When TPM and Doc enter Time Line C there is a time difference of around ten hours between their departure (early morning in sunlight) and return (dark night skies, and residents asleep in bed) this means that until a time jump returns them to the exact point of departure they are still in the future. They are still time travellers. Doc and TPM never return to their own time for the rest of the franchise. They are still in effect in the future. Cocooned from any changes to the time line they are currently visiting.
2 - In the first movie TPM, just prior to leaving 1955, alters the destination time circuit to give him ten minutes extra to change Doc’s fate. TPM never returns to his own time, and is still technically in the past at the end of the movie. Only ten minutes in the past, but this means he’s cocooned.
This one fact creates a branch on the LPM timeline - lets call it Time Line Bx
Which means any changes caused by LPM have to slowly catch up with TPM in time line Bx.
In the first movie the changes took most of a week to work their way through his siblings and on to TPM. Well the next morning in time line Bx Doc whisks TPM and Jennifer off to 2015 (oh yeah Jennifer is cocooned too). Biff then sets a whole new time line in place.
When Doc returns everyone to the 80’s Time Line Bx no longer exists. Old Biff set a chain of events in motion that made significant changes to Hill Valley. The Casino Marty was sent away to boarding school, the Casino Doc was institutionalised and the two probably never met. Major changes in the McFly family would accelerate the erasure of LPM,
As soon as Old Biff went through Temporal Displacement the chain of events set in place would have been resolved. The only thing stopping them from working their way to 2015 would be the time travellers that were visiting that time from the 80s (Jennifer Doc and TPM). Once they all went through temporal displacement the dark timeline resolved.
Between 1:30am and 11am on October 26 1985 TPM was mostly asleep, during this time LPM was in 1955.
After 11am Oct 26 TPM was in 2015, until 9pm when he returned to 1985.
Lone Pine Marty ceased to exist as of 9pm October 26th 1985. His timeline (b) was replaced by the dark timeline (c) erasing LPM from existence.
But why wasn’t TPM erased?
1 - Einstein is still in Time Line 1, and is still a cocooned time traveller. None of the changes to TPM’s history remove Einstein from existence so Doc’s pet isn’t facing erasure. Therefore Einstein’s memories are intact. Until he undergoes another temporal displacement his independent consciousness maintains Time Line A. And as long as Time Line A exists TPM has a tether to keep him in place, unlike LPM. Time Line B’s Einstein was placed in suspended animation, then brought back from 2015 with Jennifer, TPM and Doc. As that dog went through temporal displacement Time Line B ceased to exist.
Why doesn’t Time Line B’s Marty create paradoxical plot holes?
Because of Einstein’s trip back from 2015 to 1985.
Anyone else notice that the ending of BTTF 3 is completely pointless, they don't have to use the train to get the Delorean up to 88mph all they have to do is take the parts they need to fix the car from the other Delorean that the Doc went back to the old west in at the end of the second movie that he buried for Marty to find in the future. There are two Deloreans in 1885.
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people finaly understand FUCKING LODGIC
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They could've just taken the parts they needed and leave the actual Delorean in the cave. It would just mean that 1955 Doc had to repair a little more than before which wouldn't be a problem since there was no time pressure then and 1955 had all the necessary parts already existing.
dear lordah hes a fucking genius
It was high octane gasoline they needed and petroleum gas was in its infancy at the time. Not saying the whole gas thing was a big plot whole but it could have been solved easy and quickly with a still and ethanol(alcohol). Another problem was a smooth road, then again they could have did it on the rail. Also just because the rail ROW existed in 1985 it does not mean a new set of tracks was not layed exactly in the same alignment but could have been a few inches or feet different. They do replace tracks all the time.
the de lorean was fixed, the problem was the petrol. I'm sure some very low octane petrol was probably available but that wouldnt really work with the combustion engine of the delorean and certainly not get up to 88mph. Doc fixing up the engine and putting in something that could run on alcohol or low RON fuel probably wouldnt work either because it just wouldnt make the power to get up to 88mph.
does anyone else get creeper out watching back to the future 2 and realizing it is 2015 lol man time flies.
That's what Rick would have done to Morty.
I always just saw the other Marty as going back to 1955 the exact same way, with the Libyans chasing after him and the Delorean sending him back when it reached 88mph and he was able to set off the exact same events as he did throughout that week he spent with Doc Brown in 1955 in a perfect loop, which is why once the Marty that just arrived back witnessed Doc getting shot down by the Libyans, he waited until the other Marty went back to 1955 (in order to prevent accidentally interacting with him before he went back and risking a major time paradox), the Libyans crashed their Volkswagen Bus into a photo booth and Marty then went over to Doc, much to his dismay until he got back up and revealed to Marty that he eventually read the warning letter that he wrote before leaving 1955 and he put on the bulletproof vest before going to the Lone Pine Mall parking lot to reveal the Delorean time machine to the other Marty.
So in other words, the other Marty just simply repeated all the same events that he did in 1955 as the Marty that arrived back in 1985 in a perfect loop.
But he couldn't have repeated the same events cause the new marty had a completely different life up until that point
Or new Marty goes to old Marty's time line and teaches old Marty's parents how to become rich like his parents are. Or that's just what I want to think....
The only way for time travel to not have loopholes and paradoxes is if we travel through alternative versions of our world. The past present and future co-exsist, so if you're traveling to your past, you're actually travelling to their present. The alternate dimensions theory is plausible in this series because of the whole 1985A storyline in Part 2. The 1985 we see at the end where Marty's family is well-off isn't the same as the beginning of the movie, so this is an alternate dimension that he lives in, and the other Marty had to travel to this Marty's original dimension to keep everything in check. So the new Marty isn't dead, he just gave up his perfect life for the space time continuum.
Biff "the rapist". Excellent.
It's an endless cycle old marty goes to 55,then back to 85,then to 2015,alternate 85 and 1885 then back to regular 85 meanwhile new marty is one step behind him
Example old marty is in 2015 with doc while new marty is in 1985 with doc
okay, i feel really dumb, but why are they screaming at the end? it's funny, i just don't get it. please help!!
they have made a really good fanfiction and even explained a hidden proves in an original movie by creating a "martyr" twist.
It's clearly a reference to AdultSwim's TOO MANY COOKS.
Or, uhh, as a straight up answer. I think they were trying to go with Cody finger drawing in the air the name Marty and adding an R to drive his point home, then they both paused for a moment & realized there were actual words in the air between them and freaked out.
Kind of...oddly meta for Cracked.
beacuse the writers (gale and Zemeckis) named one of the main characters "Marty" and it´s an odd coincidence taht it is only one letter short fo "martyr". It is like they are proving this theory right
Because the implications are horrifying, Doc is a psycopath that sends a kid to die
Doc befriends Marty because Doc knows he needs to be friends with original Marty in order to show him time travel to make sure that what happens happens. Also at the end of the movie Marty is just watching the moment where he travels back to 1955 happen. Nobody dies
i dont get the end.
Dreal they're screaming at tge letters being suddenly real
That Marty IS the Marty we follow throughout the movie, just in the past. He will do all the things the Marty we follow did.
People think of the past Marty and the present Marty as two different people in two different times, but they're not. They're the same Marty, in two different times. Like I said, it's a loop.
Multiverse
*GOD DAMN IT WHY DID I WASTE ALL OF THAT TIME REPLAYING RANDOM SHIZ NO ONE BUT ME CAN UNDERSTAND WHEN I COULD HAVE JUST SIMPLY SAID MOTHERFUCKINMULTIVERSE CURSE MY BRAIN OVER ANALYZING EVERYTHING I BLAME CRACKED THEY RUINED MY CHILDHOOD AND MAKE ME RETHINK EVATING*
dragonwarrior3z Hey dude, its cool. You can cop out like me and say multiverse or can think up some pretty cool theories as to how all this can be possible.
I'm pretty sure Marty just went back to 1955 like original Marty creating an infinite time loop of him going back in time and coming back just to see his former self go into the past and come back to see his former self go into the past and come back and on and on and on
At the beginning of the movie, even though Marty doesn't know it yet, is life is already altered by his supposed time travel about to happen. How do i know that? Because we will later find out that the professor was wearing a bulletproof vest all that time (he made that decision because he read Marty's letter), so even when they are experimenting with the DeLorean for the first time, the events are already changed by the time travelling (yet to happen). But there's a catch: Marty's parents are boring and stupid, obviously not yet affected at all by the same time travelling events that worked so well on Doc (and saved his life). In order to see ANY change in Marty's parents we have to wait for the end of the movie, after the whole adventure has taken place... but Doc didn't have to. His life starts out already affected by the adventure when the movie starts.
Isn't that a plot hole?
+Jimmy David As far as we know, Doc wasn't wearing a vest at Twin Pines mall. But when Marty returns 10 minutes early, we see that his trip to the past has already changed the world to which he returned. The ripple effect arrived in 1985 before Marty did. The Doc at Lone Pine Mall had a bullet proof vest and Marty's letter. Lone Pine Doc would have had to courageously repeat all of Twin Pine Doc's reckless actions, fully knowing their end result.
+Jimmy David
It's not a plot hole because it didn't happen that way. As you've said yourself, Marty's parents are unchanged, therefore Marty has not yet changed the past, therefore Marty has not yet given Doc Brown the letter, therefore Doc Brown is not wearing the vest. What evidence is there that he is, at the beginning of the movie, before Marty timetravels?
When Marty returns to 1985, he is in an alternate time-line, one where he did travel to the past, he did affect his parents' lives, he did give Doc Brown the letter, and Doc is wearing the vest. But this is not the time-line we see at the beginning.
viddork The problem i see with that is that the "alternate timeline" and "the past changes the future" are 2 clichets used to explain the plot when they are convenient, but you can't jump from one to the other... you have to pick one and make it the rule!
So, how does reality work in this movie, everytime Marty returns to the present after an adventure in the past? Has he effectively changed it all (and thus we would need to make those changes count even *before* the time trip) or does he return to a different timeline?
If you want to say that he's a stranger in the timeline everytime he returns, then why doesn't he come back to find *another* Marty (the one from that timeline)??
But that's the whole point of this video: he DOES find another Marty (the one raised in the functional family) when he comes back - the one he watches escape in the DeLorean just before going down to find Doc alive. The question this video is asking is, what happens to THAT Marty?
viddork But in the first movie he also fixes the past, then comes back home (supposedly to an alternate timeline, by what you said) and his family is changed, yet his place is still vague, there's no other Marty home.
In that case, seems like he really fixed his OWN timeline, right (?), the one where he belongs. But don't forget that it all is happening within the same reality where Doc has put on a vest. It indicates that it IS possible to fix one's own timeline then. The question becomes: why have his family no memory of past events? They should be as aware as Doc himself.
Theory: New Marty goes back to the exact same date, but his alterations create the timeline we saw in the start of the movie., thus creating an infinite time loop, constantly switching back and forth between the two realities.
Whooa, that's heavy
You want BttF fanfic? How about Twin Pines George McFly wondering what happened to his son, the one that disappeared forever? And the only person who knows what may have happened was killed by terrorists. Life in his already-crappy timeline turns even more bleak, and in a fit of desperation he breaks into Doc's house but doesn't find anything more useful than an early experiment in time travel, a stasis chamber, big enough for a sheepdog. More than ready to write off his own pointless life, he sets it for a century, crawls inside, and freezes when it activates...and so he just sits there, inert, while time continues on without him.
We see flashes of a gradually-aging Lorraine, occasionally banging on the window and weeping, but she grows decrepit and disappears. When the century has passed the door opens and he finds a cult dedicated to worshiping the Man in the Box, but he is frightened by them and resets the chamber for a thousand years, eventually crawling out to become a part of the advanced science-fictional world he always dreamed about.
Here's what I think happened: Time traveling Marty (the one who goes to 1955) finds out that Doc is alive, therefor altering the timeline because new knowledge has been gained. This knowledge changes the future to the one where all the McFlys are happy. Leaving the other Marty(s) in different futures and pasts since, as Doc explains, there are other timelines. All the possible outcomes are playing out, just in different branches of the timeline; the movie just decided to follow the Marty who gets the happy McFly family.
To clarify: all the possible outcomes, Martys, Docs, etc. exist in the corresponding times, but in different versions (the same way Doc and Marty go back to the really messed up 1985 and see that Biff tampered with the 1985 they're familiar with).
***Sorry if this confusing or if you find holes/unanswered questions, but do keep in mind that this is a fictional movie so the laws of the space time continuum don't always need to be satisfied in order to make something possible.
DOB would beg to differ.
Multi-fucking-verse
I don't get the ending .-.
elock1277 the ghost letters
For 30 years I thought Steven Spielberg made Back to the Future water-tight, until today. Thanks Cracked.
So Future Marty jump back in time to become jesus.
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time to go make some pamflits the McFly cult WILL BE A THING a very sexy thing at that
You guys are wrong. As stated already in this comment section Marty has to keep going back to maintain the loop. Also we never see doc die at the beginning we only see him get shot which means he very well could have already had the bullet proof vest on. The original Marty just observes Doc laying there and then assumes. The changes in the past effect Marty's timeline yes but the rest is a closed loop.
that's assuming things can't be changed and everything plays out as they always have, but Back To The Future 2 breaks that theory by showing us futures that can be changed, so what happened when Marty came back wasn't what happened in the original timeline and Doc didn't want these two Marty's to interact so he faked his death and sent new Marty to his doom
Also Doc showed Marty the letter he reconstructed, so he knew to wear the vest, he wouldn't have known that in the original timeline and would have died so things did change, and Marty went from poor to rich
There wasn't a loop before Marty went back and there are definite changes beyond just Marty's timeline like his family now being noticeably richer. If Marty's memories had changed to fit the new version of the future then your theory would hold up but they didn't and so there are at least two distinct versions of Marty walking around the spacetime continuum and since the second one never shows back up you can only assume something bad (or really good) happened to stop him.
This... oh my god... so many questions! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!
name one if i know how a paradox even works maybe i can answer it by compairing it to time travel
xenomorph101AJ Here's the ultimate gaffe in the series: Old Biff steals the Delorean to give 1955-Biff the Sports Almanach. Why would he then chose to return the time machine? And even if he did: How could he even get to the timeline where he stole it, since he has (as we see in the movie) completely altered American history?
the whole thing is in a infinite loop because by the time biff got back they would have fixed it then there other selfs would end up having to fix it again
My take:
Same Marty, but more confident. Doc called him to invite him to see the finished project and Marty was the one who stepped out of his timeframe and caused the change.
In the beginning, his guitar performance is mediocre and he talks about fear saying something like 'I don't know if I can take that kind of rejection'. His father instilled that in him. But when Marty goes back, he changes his father's outlook on life, gives him opportunities to learn confidence and a phrase to remember it all and pass it on to his son 'it's like I always told you, if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything'. The complete change happens when he nearly fades out of existence and fades back in. That's why he has more energy and rocks the hell out of the stage when his original performance in the first scene was so weak. he was holding back his best game because of his fears, fears that all but faded away when he almost did.
Your Paradox is because the film seems to only recognize a single universe rather than a multiverse.
Then again, maybe it's the viewer who's shifting through various multiverse timelines and is partly in sync with Marty but not completely. That's why we almost lost him at the dance. What really happened is he faded out right then and there, completely erasing himself from that existence and we, being entangled with him, instantly shifted to an adjacent timeline, landing in the nearest one where the poppa McFly happened to finally grow a pair.
Either way...
I don't get the end.
so your saying their still killing people who are wicca? i thought that stopped after the salem trials!
that seems to offend me since i am wicca!
the text was not supposed to be there.
To me it was a clear Jesus reference. As if their fan fiction was similar to the gospels where new Marty accepts to die to save the world.
The joke is that these videos are just supposed to be them talking in the office. If you and your friend were talking about a video and then realised you could edit text onto the actual air you'd freak out.
Have you ever realized, that no story can take place in a perfect world, because every story must have a conflict and no perfect world has conflict or else something about it isn't perfect for someone.
"NEIGH" said the horse. Sorenrotica >>>
The Marty they are talking about killing is also the one that had to come back but his memories of the altered future wouldn't resolve until that future resolved. Time travel rarely makes any sense to begin with, but this is essentially how most time travel scenarios are seen to resolve. The question is whether or not the new Marty would meet doc, as it would be easy enough for Doc to talk him into arriving at exactly the same time again as before, and the exact second at which any of those things happens should not alter things significantly.
In a fluid time model (the kind Dr Who tends to use but isn't always consistent) if you alter your own past those changes propagate forward, and if that ends in a contradiction of some kind the events will continue to repeat over and over again in a time loop until a sequence of events that CAN resolve settles down, and you only ever get to watch the last loop that actually resolves in most cases. Think Groundhog day on a much larger scale. History has to keep repeating until a sequence of events that doesn't contradict itself occurs.
Greg: "So this is what we're doing? We're developing back to the future fan fiction?"
Greg... What do you think your job is?
Also, this is funnier after the Small Beans bit were Cody said he didn't learn Greg's name in either timeline.
In 1961,Cracked said:"In Philadelphia,nearly everyone reads the Bulletin,but almost nobody reads Cracked.
The Bulletin died in 1976.
Everyone losing their head on something this simple.
Despite new Marty be richer, he still lives in the same house, just a better version of it, and goes to the same school, so this leads to minor differences on his new life's opportunities, also now that his dad is a Sci fi writer, Marty would be even more prone into befriending doc.
Also Doc now knows with 100% assurance the time machine is possible and that he will succeed into it, with that he drop out all most random creation, now devoting he's life into studying the time, this can be seen as in the second movie on he is a bit more serious, and have more consistent theories, so he came to a conclusion he is living a circular paradox (your way of time traveling causes it to repeat itself over and over), because the doc that uses the bullet proof vest on lone pine mall is NOT the Doc that "just sent Marty from 1955 to 1985", he is actually the doc that sent Marty From 1955 to 1855!
After sending Marty from 1955 to 1855 he goes to the library and see himself and Marty on the clock tower picture, and he's name no longer in the tombstone, then he realizes that when Marty comes back from 1855 to the final 1985 there would be 2 docs, he that wouldn't time traveled at all and the doc from 1855, so he commit into he's steps again to 1 ensure he'll have the needed parts to create the time traveling train and finally break the cycle without a paradox...
Well put. You made me realise that the only way to truly answer all of this is to treat all 3 films as one. Especially as they are all interconnected. It seems the Marty returning from 1885 to 1985, arrives a little after the Doc, Marty and Jennifer left to go to 2015 in the flying Delorean. He collects Jennifer from the porch where she was left in BTTF2 alt 1985 and then they go for a spin in the 4x4. Doc is no where to be seen as he's either in 2015 BTTF2 or 1885 with Clara but then when they check the time machine wreckage the Time Machine train arrives with Doc and family.
Can't send him back millions of years for one simple reason: There are only four digits for the "year" on the time machine.
“New Marty” knew Marty..... is like
Don’t do what “Donny Don’t” does
Doc could invent a time machine but can't make a bullet proof vest.... Wonderful
The only feasible solution is that new Marty went and lived thru the first movie only with subtle details changed.
Instead of the traditional story of how his parents met, he realized he was his parents long lost friend that saved his dad from getting hit by the car, and hooked his parents up just like the story he grew up listening to.
Therefor, he already knew the details and it just made sense.
But that means old Marty would have known too. Paradox much?
That mean's that after the initial change in timelines created the second timeline, that second timeline would infinitely be split into a new timeline every time an old Marty came back, causing infinite clones of the same timeline.
Or...New Marty is sent on a one way trip into the far future where he is instructed to remain by future police and past doc to avoid a paradox. New rich Marty is likely to accept the boon of eternal life in year 2500 rather than
New Marty goes to live 1,000 years into the future where original Marty will never find him nor his descendants would ever recognize him.
Marty still holds his original memories though.
In my opinion, after Marty changes the past, Marty is forever predestined to go back in time to perform those changes.
Lots of things were screwed up in the movies, but because they are comedies people are able to forgive the flaws. The number one flaw is the inconsistency of the time ripple effect, which conveniently allows for many of the differences to occur throughout the movies. In contrast, action movies or television series that have episodes with time travel are usually only good when history is immutable and a sustainable time loop occurs.
New Marty can't die or else the entire plot of back to the future falls apart. If new Marty doesn't eventually become original Marty then Marty didn't need to get his parents back together for him to exist. New Marty dying should have the same effect on original Marty's existence as Marty never being born.
Original Marty already changed the timeline creating a new timeline, therefore new Marty didn't need to do anything because events had already been changed. You're thinking of a loop paradox, this is timeline flux.
Lazarou101 It can't be time flux in the way you're thinking of it. Remember Original Marty almost erased his own existence by messing with his parents meeting. When Original Marty gets "his" parents back together they give birth to New Marty. If New Marty doesn't become Original Marty then it shouldn't have mattered if his parents ever met. My theory is that the effects of what Marty does don't take into effect until Marty travels back in time. This means that Original Marty watched Original Marty go back in time. There is no version of Marty that grew up rich. Once Marty leaves everything changes. I think this is the only way to explain it using the rules put in place by the movie.
New Marty didnt die, but when he went back in time he changed the timeline in such a way that old Marty lived with his parents being the way they are in the beginning of the movie. When old Marty meets Doc and goes back in time, he changes his parents to what they are at end of film, but he still remains the same. When old Marty comes back and the new Marty is going back in time, the new Marty ends up recreating the life old Marty had by not interfering or might have been the one that caused his dad to get in front of the car resulting in a crackpot George meeting Loraine which created the timeline old Marty lived in when the new Marty went back in time. Thus, creating the life for old Marty.
When old Marty went back in time he knew about George and pushed him out of the way when his grandfather hit him. Thus, when old Marty returned the changes to the timeline occurred to which George and Loraine were different, but the old changes as to George being a crackpot and Loraine drunk did not occur yet because new Marty was still in the past making them so the life new Marty had still existed when old Marty came back.
According to the Chaos Effect, the moment Marty appeared in 1955, he already set in motion changes that would have led to his non-existence leaving time-traveling Marty as a "temporal orphan" for all intents and purposes did not exist before appearing in 1955.
Or... Future Marty jumped forward to the point of Present Marty's death, eliminating that problem completely.
It’s a time loop. Old Marty goes back to 1955 and returns to 1985 10 minutes earlier, only to watch new Marty go back to 1955,
I feel this is how these videos are developed. That it's just 2 people talking at work.
Marty created a new timeline. Marty 2 goes back in time but to another 1955. The Marty who left 1985 to 1955 in the beginning created another timeline where doc dies and Marty goes missing, his family searches for him for years but then gives up hope. Mom dies of liver failure, Dave becomes manager at Burger King, Marty's sister suffers from diabetes, and George commits suicide in Biff's office. Marty returns to the new timeline with doc knowing about the shooting. When Doc, Marty and Jennifer go to the future, they create a new timeline.
You're welome!
How about less concern on the time travel duplicates and more about the line where Doc said he spent nearly the ENTIRE Brown family fortune to create the time machine when spoken in context with the news paper clippings of the Brown Mansion fire as evidence Doc burned the mansion down for the insurance money so he could build the time machine.
How did doc get the DeLorean back to take Marty home and go to the future at the end.
Actually what happened was super doc with the time train secretly went to the future and retrieved a memory copying device, went back to the moment new Marty arrived in 1955 and murdered him so that he never changes the timeline, goes back to 1985 and copies old Marty's memories, goes back to 1955 and gives the memory copier to old super doc so he doesn't have to kill Marty, timeline reset to new Marty, then old super doc goes back to 1985, kidnaps new Marty and uses the memory machine to replace his memories with old Marty's memories, then the whole thing plays out exactly as it did before. No paradox.
No. That's the same Marty who originally got into the car; he went back in time and did all that stuff. Things in this timeline changed after he went back in time: Doc retroactively became unshot by having a bullet-proof vest that wasn't there before, Marty's home is the same until he goes back in time and then it changes around the family. Marty is unaltered having been the one going through time affecting things. The way Marty's photo changes and the newspapers and matchbook change the other things change also. Or perhaps Doc doesn't change to having a bullet-proof vest until Marty comes back so, luckily, he decided to come back earlier and THAT saved Doc.
I always just assumed that "Second Marty" is just the original Marty returning from the fifties. They are the same Marty.
I have a couple of questions about this theory. First, why would doc have to kill the new Marty by sending him back in time to the Jurassic age or whatever? Why couldn't he just send new Marty to, like, 200 years in the future? The paradox that threatens the universe or whatever only happens if you run into yourself. We have seen in the second movie that Marty can interact with his son in the second movie, even talking to him, without repercussions. Therefore, his grandchildren or great-grandchildren should not be a problem. Furthermore, knowing everything he now knows about time travel, he would most likely find somewhere to live where no one's heard of the McFlys. Marty could live quite happily, if somewhat disfunctionally, in the 2250s, for example, couldn't he?
Also, I was wondering, the whole premise of the second movie is that you can't come face-to-face with yourself when time traveling without risking causing a paradox that will distort the universe, right? But my question is, doesn't this happen when Jennifer runs into herself in her future house? They both see each other and faint, yet the universe remains intact. Can someone please explain this to me? And on that note, 2015 Biff travels back in time and has a WHOLE CONVERSATION with 1955 Biff and nothing happens, except the timeline is altered, so 1985 Biff is a millionaire. Again, no destroying of the universe, no ruining the space-time continuum or whatever.
Please explain, someone. I have these questions, but I don't know where else to post them.
Doc was wrong about the space time continuum being destroyed if you come in contact with your other self, remember? Jennifer came in contact with future Jennifer and they just passed out. Also, as per doctor who law, becoming a time traveler makes you impervious to the effects of altered timelines when you go back and forth between them. So Marty and Doc were immune to being changed by the alterations that took place.
That's not how the time travel works in back to the future. Marty came back to witness himself leave it doesn't even cause a loop because everything works out. The changes are small.
His parents bought the same house... but they got a new living room set.
Remember the scene where Marty almost fades away on stage during the dance. What restores him is the fact that his parents will produce him - that is, they're going to produce New Marty (_not_ Old Marty). If New Marty were destined to be killed, that scene would make no sense. The only way it makes sense is that the person standing on stage from that moment forward _is_ New Marty. He just doesn't have the memories of New Marty's childhood (perhaps they haven't yet caught up with him through the space-time continuum).
So, within the logic of the movie, there's one Marty in '55, and New Marty still must get there in order to be that person. This still leaves us with the mystery of whether he transforms into Old Marty when he gets there, or if not, how events still play out the way they're supposed to. But presumably those things are enough "in the details" that the broad strokes of the story can still work out. And of course, at the end of the day we're not meant to think about it too hard.
One thing you do learn in all the movies is TIME IS NOT INSTANTANEOUS
It adjusts itself to prevent paradoxes, that's why when "Old Marty" comes back, time still needed to adjust itself towards him, meaning a timeline without a Marty.
And that is why in the second movie when "Old Biff" came back from the past to the future and Marty, Doc and Jennifer remained in the same timeline like nothing happened because time didn't catch up to them yet.
I't also explains why Marty was the last to disappear in the photo in the first movie.
And for Cracked I would like to ask this:
1) When Marty came back in time 10 minutes earlier and saw the Delorean go back in time who did he see? "New Marty"? or maybe Young Marty.
2) If Doc did intentionally kill "New Marty"/"Young Marty" or vice versa, "New Marty"/"Young Marty" killed himself, what would that mean for "Old Marty"? That he went back in time and saw his own death?
THINK OF IT
You aren't thinking fourth dimensionally. there isnt an "extra" Marty. the 'new' Marty present when old Marty returns to the mall scene goes back to the same moment old Marty went to. Those events must all still take place in order for time to remain in its altered frame. Suspicion over him still being the type of person who would end up in that situation is somewhat valid. But him travelling to 1955 wouldn't generate an additional Marty in the era. Also, there isn't a second Marty in 1955 until the events of the second movie have taken place. while the time machine exists, it controls the forward continuity of time.
The paradox here would be in the fact that as Marty travelled back and fourth between 1955 and 1985 it would likely create a feedback loop. Each version of himself would make different decisions because of different life experiences resulting potentially in different outcomes. Things as small as playing a different song in place of Johnny Be Good might result in an alteration of the final outcome.
It is therefore possible that there were hundreds of unseen recurrences of the events of the first film until a state of normalcy was finally reached and time was able to flow forward beyond this Nexus point. This likely wouldn't be true of the second film, as the footprint left by doc and Marty is a much smaller one.
One important thing I always like to include in any time travel debate is this fact: You can't break the rules of space time. if time travel is possible, then it is. Physics allows for it. which means there is no possible outcome or interaction which would "destroy space time". Just as a roller coaster can go through a loop and return to an adjacent point in its track, time too would follow the traveller. meaning Marty could go back to 1955, kill his parents, and return to 1985 and live out his days without disappearing. Because the 1972 (approx) where he was born still existed in the 'track' before he looped back and killed his parents. He was still born in a previous time line and the universe doesn't need to delete him in order to " be okay". This is a logical fallacy created by the limitations of the human brain. Not physics.
So what yer sayin is this event yer talkin bout caused there to be alternate timelines different Marty's went to depending on their decisions and other small factors
there is no "new marty" he's the same marty he just has different memories because he existed in a different timeline. and we never actually saw "old doc" die so for all we know time is just one big loop and so original doc never actually died because marty always went back to warn him
Estelle its like the grandfather theory. you can't go back and kill your grandfather (unless you become your own grandfather) "new marty" would never exist without "old marty" changing his parents timeline so new marty can't exist