I kinda more or less stopped caring about swan after the dream debacle, simply believing he vanished off the face of the earth after the heap of backlash that got him. I hadn't a clue he tried to crawl back, succeeded, only to crumble it all again with the exact same caliber of petty lie. Fucking unreal lmao.
It was so odd seeing everyone just accept him back and act like he was some chill dude. All of the people that continued to fw him after that came off as spineless imo.
Literally same. Lol. Holy shit I cannot fucking stand people like John. The dude has probably made more money than I'll ever see in my life, and he's just such an asshole, and is if anything just as much of a manipulator if not more, albeit in different ways, than his most scalding callouts. Like, it's not like he has no skills or anything, but GOD. Just the absolute worst.
@@frogfrog7736 I realized that in situations where someone who does horrible things is taken back with no problem, it happens because their audience thinks and would do the same things. Look at Dr.Disrespect, how the HELL does he still have a fan base, and a HUGE one at that? Just shows people's morals and lack thereof.
Wow John Swan was completely disgusting bullying a child that was likely Autistic and calling him a pedo. He was 15 was a creepy statement but he was a kid not an adult, they should have gotten help especially the shitty stuff they did later.
Yeah. The video exposing what Pieman did later had comments like "sorry John Swan". Like, do you all not realize that this campaign by John Swan to harass a 15 year old into feeling suicidal did not prevent their shitty behavior later on? What happened to Pieman was unacceptable. John Swan was making blatantly false accusations to bully a child who clearly had a developmental disorder going on, because he thought it was entertaining. John Swan has a habit of being like this. He likes treating situations like this as though they're a spectacle and it harms literally everyone involved, including the supposed victims. I hope he never returns to commentary.
Yes, the stock communityes.This documentary has shown me that John is trash.But at the same time you all defending and emphasizing with a map is wild to me and also sickening you all need some help
JohnSwan was great when he stayed in his lane. The problem was that as he rose in popularity, his ego got the better of him and he thought he was big-brained enough to do and say whatever he wanted without consequences. The writing was on the wall when he started live-streaming and talking about topics that he clearly knew nothing about, then talking over people who tried to fact-check him. Then, when he realized he could not, in fact, say whatever he wanted without consequences, he lied to save his own skin.
commentary youtubers acting like they should be the moral arbiter over every piece of breaking news has completely devastated the genre, only dude that shit works for is charlie and it's because he doesn't have an opinion.
@wuhlfzebayne more like, people should be more discerning about whose opinions they listen to and internalize. everyone has a right to their opinion, just like all of us have a right to not listen to dumb shit
@@wuhlfzebayneI don’t even necessarily think Charlie needs to involve himself in issues that aren’t his wheelhouse. It’s not hard to just talk about things you know enough about to actually speak on.
Dude that Pie-whatever-guy part was hard to sit through, just picking on this absolute nobody for like the tiniest joke for a debate that Swan gets nothing from
The only reason I can see as to why he did this alongside his friends was because he thought it was funny and “righteous” to bully a kid who didn’t fully understand what he did wrong. Like, John Swan really thought people would look upon him favorably after he bullied a socially challenged child into suicidal thoughts. He called this kid a monster, that him dating a person three years younger than him as a 15 year old would haunt him forever, and he would never be forgiven for it. He legit talked to this child like he was an actual pedophile. Literally ever single one of John Swan’s monumental screw ups can be pinned on the fact that he thought he would get attention, views, and praise for doing it. Or, he didn’t want to be viewed as anything other than respectful, honest, perfect John Swan. I can’t even call this man a leech. Leeches serve an actual purpose in the world.
John Swan’s downfall was an unfortunate, all he had to do was stay away from small commentary drama and stop lying but he couldn’t help it. John’s worst enemy was himself.
I got jumpscared by Liz having the same pfp as me, I spent a full minute racking my brain trying to remember if I’d ever talked to a British commentary TH-camr before and somehow forgot about it.
7:20 grooming can be illegal if you have explicit conversations about sex or send nsfw artwork, p*rn, or ofc pics of genitals regardless of whose they are. In fact just asking for nudes from a minor is illegal and what groomers ask for. It depends on the content of the messages. Influencing a child to smoke, drink, have sex/send explicit messages can be considered aiding in delinquency of a minor AFAIK. The requirements vary state to state but to say grooming is perfectly legal is not completely true.
You're right and wrong. Grooming, despite how common a term it has become, is actually a specific crime in other parts of the world. Aiding in delinquency of a minor might be a charge along with grooming, but grooming can be its own charge (though is harder to prove). What you're referring to is other crimes which also have the effects of making the child more susceptible. Grooming is specifically the 'predatory conduct with the intent to later facilitate sexual activity with a minor' and doesn't actually need to have any other specific illicit materials/crimes along with it. It's much harder to prove, but it's a thing. I'm Australian, here's a part from a government website explaining how it works here: "Grooming does not necessarily involve any sexual activity or even discussion of sexual activity - for example, it may only involve establishing a relationship with the child, parent or carer for the purpose of facilitating sexual activity at a later time." So even if they were a wonderful adult friend who was virtuous and good, if they wrote in their diary that they wanted to sleep with the kid when they turned 18, that could get you locked up. That's what isn't a crime in America, grooming isn't illegal. Other inappropriate activities with a minor are illegal, but just getting to know a minor to 'wait until they're 18' is perfectly legal.
@@midnight4685im American and referring to specific charges that can be given that I have seen in court documents relating to sending lewd images to a minor. I’m basing it off my own government and local laws I’m aware of. Thanks for the perspective from your country. Here if you even flirt knowing the age it’s illegal.
Might as well add my correction to this thread; The p3do that committed seppeku was a sheriff, he didn't do it when the cops came but after he was caught by Chris and before the episode aired. Worth mentioning also there were a LOT of legal criticisms about the show and how the police and the TV crew were more often then not working together instead of staying two distinct entities. I'm pretty sure a lot of the cases the show made got thrown out because of different legal issues too, and of course there was the issue of airing the episodes before they had been convicted of anything. When you start digging into the legal aspects of the show...it really didn't help anything that much.
@@midnight4685 When specifically talking about Onision and how his case would have potentially gone, yes he could have been charged with grooming. The issue that popped up and ruined everything IIRC was when Chris Hansen got ahold of the evidence...then he gave it to his lawyer or something? And it sat for months not going to authorities. Like, an absurd amount of time. I don't think it _ever_ reached the authorities actually, and it was presumed that the evidence was considered tainted now since so many other people had touched it. Something like that. But yeah, in the US grooming is considered a crime in most states. It might not be called that in the statute but the actions of grooming are illegal. ETA: oh it was covered briefly in the video, dunno why I didn't think it would be. It was Kai that the evidence was against then, not Onision, and I'm remembering now the huge issue with all the other victims of Onision was that they either A) didn't have good evidence against him or B) refused to go against him. That was the massively frustrating part about...him, and what made the fumbling of the Kai case so infuriating. So he could have been charged...if there was sufficient evidence.
I will never understand why people go foam at the mouth crazy for the Dream hate and just make shit up. The guy has enough stuff to already criticise and hate him for but youtubers just go feral when they see him and make shit up about him instead of just saying "yeah hate him" and moving on.
I didn't even realize I was still subscribed to him until I saw this video, but even then I hadn't seen any of his videos on my feed since the last Suzy lu one....? Jeeeez, we missed out 😅😅😅
absolutely clinical how many problems nick seems to find himself in because he just puts faith in the wrong guys; John Swan, Technicals, Tipster, Bowblax, and possibly more. not saying nick is the common denominator here; and i get why nick defends people he thought were his friends; but damn i feel bad for the kid
I mean, Nick wasn't the only one who was friends with them. And, honestly, I'd say Augie was the bigger culprit. He befriended and brought in people like Flamenco and Bowblax.
Nick is a dickhead who brings this on himself 🤷🏻♂️ maybe he doesn't do this shit Personally, but he Is the common denominator. He attracts people like this for a reason
you would have thought that the lesson to be learned from documenting chris hansen's past was that it doesn't matter how much you look up to someone, they can and will still do messed up stuff off camera. that's probably a good lesson to have learned for the commentary community too before they backed john swan against dream
41:41 really proves how childish every drama that comes out of this community is. giving a grown man the "im not mad, just disappointed" spiel over a really bad and dumb lie he told. the more i hear about the commentary community the more it really does feel like kids fighting during recess
what do you expect from the male version of a bunch of catty grandmas gossiping over a game of bridge at the local diner? literally all that binds them to each other is gossip.
The John swan fall from grace, was my favorite. When they were still in discussions about IF the autistic cousin existed, I was in the comments starting fights with John's fans. It was great fun!
In his return video about talking about Dream, he said that he wished Dream had empathized with him? But he did? That is why he didn't release the screenshots??? bro.
John is what you get when the persona you create for yourself is diametrically opposite of the person you actually are. If he had just embraced the scummy side he tried to keep secret, he would probably be loved. I think it's ok to have an alter-ego of sorts online, so long as that alter ego doesn't make you a hypocrite.
@DiabeticGremlin07 He literally is, he sounds British and it literally says he is from the UK, I do know what Australians sound like because I literally live there
@DiabeticGremlin07 I don't really know WHY, but as an American I do genuinely get a lot of British and Australian accents confused. Some accents are a lot more distinct and I can tell "oh that guy's an aussie" but sometimes they're less distinct and I have a really hard time differentiating them. Might be just because a lot of us don't regularly hear accents from either place so it's difficult to pick up on the subtler differences? I dunno
Your videos are really good and i feel unlike a lot of people in this field you dont seem to, idk revel in the drama of it all. You're not keemstar high of the drama drug, but youre also not like some lolcow youtubers who just like to point and laugh at peoples lowest point. your videos are nice and fun to listen to and have a nice flow to them. For your age youre definitely going places, hope you keep being you and not go down the path of John Swan. As for John, your comparison to a fireman who saves a baby and then starts setting fires to relive the glory is very apt, really just seems like he got high off of the attention.
I used to be a fan of John's and after the dream incident I haven't followed him since, he lost credibility and that for me is you lose that its all over, interesting to see he had more after that. it still somewhat has affected how I viewed TRO, but with him I feel he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, I hope John stays away forever.
Ok I haven't finished the video still gonna, but... DAFQ OU MEAN HE WAS BORN IN SOUTH AFRICA... I have never heard anyone mention that part before and as someone born and living there... its the biggest shock of my life knowing how far he had fallen from grace in his career... what the fuck
I remember thinking how shit John Swan was and how annoying his voice and tendency to make insanely ridiculous claims. I never realized he so blatantly copied people but he had a knack for taking a simple thing and turning it into a conspiracy by blowing it out of proportion and creating a narrative around it that was completely false, especially with allegations against TH-camrs. This was years ago but I was always astounded how little everyone seemed to care about the blatant shit he stirred and lies he told in order to do so. Not saying I was the first or anything but jesus christ it feels like it took forever for people to not only notice but condemn this piece of shit.
What a trip down memory lane! Absolutely banger video, Toastify. I remember when a lot of this stuff happened and watching this video has reminded me of so many things I almost forgot about. Like Suzie for example. That was a crazy story, and I remember it kickstarting a lot of the conversations and arguments people make nowadays defending transformative content and fair use in commentary. I also find it interesting just how many content creators initially gathered around covering Onision and how far they've come since then. We lost a few along the way, but it's amazing to see many of them still thriving as creators. Another interesting thing is that I totally forgot that JustDestiny even existed. I actually used to watch JustDestiny content. It's just really crazy seeing all of this stuff in hindsight and seeing how the dominoes fell one by one, leading up to now. Again, amazing video. A+ content ✨️
A young swan is called a “cygnet,” not a “duckling.” My own pedantry aside, cheers for the upload. It’s still weird to remember this all happening at the time.
The more I learn about Chris Hansen the more I'm convinced that he was nothing more than Mamamax for millennials. Maybe not that cringy but just as "productive" and "helpful"
there are parallels for sure, especially in his later career. a while back i saw someone call Mamamax “Chris Hansen, as played by Jared Leto” and thought that was an unfortunately apt comparison
Excellent video as always. In regards to the Hansen/Onision case, his behavior was less "less than perfect," more absolutely bungling and ridiculously idiotic. Sending it to a random asshole unrelated to any law enforcement agency or law office makes it incredibly hard to account for the evidences handling and analysis. Chain of custody is paramount in getting evidence admitted into a case if it goes to court. Without proper chain of custody, there can always be a shadow cast over it as potentially having been tampered with. It was insanely neglectful of Chris to approve something like that. It belonged in the hands of an actual reputable lawyer working with them and the victim.
A question about the Dream situation, doesnt changing your name or profile picture on Discord require entering your passowrd? If you were to believe Jon, youd have to accept one of two situations. 1. Jon gave his family member his password. 2. The family member saw Jon enter the password. This also means Jons family member is Rain man.
Wow! John Swan is a piece of shit for bullying a child for content and not apologizing. What Pieman went through at the time, being a kid at the time, must had been traumatic.
Didn't watch the vid yet, but I come to expect informative pieces on your end. For a decade or more of observing the commentary community and never got my head around what exactly happened to Swan, hopefully video delivers. after watch edit: what a slimy liar. The right opinion being quiet while this shit was happening and he knew is indicative of his character (won't say the truth if it doesn't benefit him). The commentary community is where morals go to die and good people go to lose sanity.
I guess the only reason John chose to side with dream during the whole cheating stuff was probably how lenient he was towards him when he made those lies against him.🐱
Kid Danger: *wearing his purple scarf on his neck wearing his mighty pup movie outfit looking surprised* Jesus Christ! How to RUIN your career on social media 101!
27:15 15 year olds can be pedophiles 15 year olds talking like that to a 12 or 13 year is wrong and yes he knows it’s wrong. Child on child grooming and SA is real. Age is not an excuse and him admitting he knows it’s wrong to be attracted implies he is a predator. -I’m a CSA survivor by a family member a couple years my junior and an adult before that when in daycare. Predatory behavior is not just age.
it is totally understandable and correct, But This doesn't excuse John swan from accusing the 15 year old of being a PDF file that didn't do any of that awful and horrific things that He himself did. Still, I'm sorry for what you've been through and I hope you found peace and healing from that traumatic incident and may that family member get karma coming to them hard and fast.
@@Feliciathedollyou’re absolutely correct. 15 is an impulsive age too. There’s time to correct behavior especially with intervention. His lashing out at a kid who has time to change who clearly was remorseful is nasty work. It totally makes it more difficult for kids like him to want to get help at all.
There are plenty, but none are in the drama community. When you start nitpicking and criticizing others you invite the same of you, and everyone has flaws. I say this as someone who loves the drama/lolcow community btw lol. But yeah if you want wholesome yters, go to wholesome communities.
Idk, 15 and 18 is still a wierd gap. Even by the cold math of X÷2+7=Good, so 18÷2(=9)+7= 16, this gap is still a year off. But it still just feels icky too. Like, i dont remember hittin on 15yr olds when i was 18 🤔
Awesome video! First saw it on Chuds stream, but had to watch the whole thing on its own. Love the editing, the narration, etc. I remember when it all went down, but was just starting watching TH-cam, so I didn’t know the people as well as I do now, like Nicholas
The whole time I was watching this i was thinking about how he could still actually come back from this, but I had forgotten about the Cami drama lol so nevermind.
1:26:30 I think the one thing I take away from John's story is that if you find that you're good at something, make that your thing. Dont try to do everything yourself. Talented at editing but not so good at presenting the story? Edit someone else's videos. I think it's ego that makes people think they have to do everything solo and be the front runner of a drama.
I notice that he is one of the commentary youtuber whom would maliciously fabricate drama getting into fights or even false accusing other personalities so he have drama to cover whenever a big drama dies down and the commentary community enters a "light season"
@darkcat6530 "the video ain't about technicals, but let us ignore that Technical's video actually destroyed John again and just push it into the background, don't matter"
youre a weirdo if you think 15yo going after a 12yo is normal. when i was 15 i wanted to date people my age or older (cause i was 15 and old people were cool) wanting to date a tween as a teen is weird. it's like wanting to date a younger sibling or something, someone who may just started puberty.
The way Nick handled John Swan raised my respect for him in the community. He could have stood by John Swan in the lie but instead he outed his friend to keep his integrity intact.
I remember when I was 14, I was in quite a few commentary TH-camr circles on Twitter and I made friends there. This led to me being added to a group chat with this guy (John Swan). He was so unnecessarily rude from what I remembered, and older than me by a bit. I was an immature kid, so I was pretty annoying and emotional, but this guy was just… yikes. Kinda makes sense he made fun of kids in videos. And he wasn’t that good at arguing/making points either, his texts kind of read like a pretentious guy who thought he was right about everything. Even at 14, I could see that. 😭 I still watched commentary for years after and only now at 20 am I even seeing anything about him - and it’s a video about his downfall. Damn. 💀
small criticism, in this video you make statements like "everyone hates dream" without mentioning that the allegations are false. I feel like this shoulda been in the vid
If this is about the cheating, he did cheat. Just not intentionally. TLDR a mod that was supposed to be for his content creation stuff like manhunts and whatnot was unknowingly active during his speedruns, and he didn't know about this until well after when the person that made the mod for him was finally questioned about it. This doesn't negate all the BS Dream was doing like the whole astrophysicist thing and him and his community attacking the moderators.
As much of a pathological liar John is, Cam is completely a groomer. Like how do y'all think 15 and 18 is okay? They're completely different developmental stages.
yeah its a bit odd for someone going on 19 to still be after high schoolers. "yeah i'll be right over i have to pick up my girlfriend from detention first"
John wanted to be the hero and the villain of his own story. And to be completely honest, it's ironic that, being the storyteller he was, has to listen to everyone else tell his tragic story.
It’s a shame… This is the problem with raising a whole generation to think no one can make a single mistake. They think they can’t either. If he would’ve just admitted it from the jump… Said he was jealous of dream having followers and just desperate to get his attention… Or whatever… just something that would humanize him… Something that would make anyone understand or be able to see themself in his mistake… Sure, some (young idiots who dk we all make mistakes) people would be mad… But it would’ve blown over… He wouldn’t have lost his whole career It really is a shame
I have watched both Nicholas and John since the pandemic and honestly that call you can hear nicholas' broken frustration when he called him out with such a statement before saying "I'm sorry". That hits.
calling a child a pedophile for being attracted to another child is next level straw grasping and its really weird how invested this larger youtuber was in all of this like he was his dad or something
What John Swan did caused so many long lasting issues. For example, TRO and J Aubrey used to be friends and John Swan's actions caused that friendship to fall apart - they used to appear in each others vids and after JS they didn't. A good friendship blown apart by JS's lies. This is not the only case where JS's actions have had a long term effects.
![The Tales Of Tipster: Commentary's Biggest Lolcow [1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HzWPqKjA7Ss/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Tales Of Tipster: Commentary's Biggest Lolcow [1]](/img/tr.png)
The call between Nick and John sounds like someone confronting their spouse for cheating on them.
@FlotalendyHateAccount its not related what the heck?
@FlotalendyHateAccount who tf is that
Um...what the hell happened in these replies?
I was expecting people to be saying "same" or something similar...not whatever the first reply was. 😅😅😅😅
@@syafeeqahisham1740 probably a bot idk
Anyway. Same.
I kinda more or less stopped caring about swan after the dream debacle, simply believing he vanished off the face of the earth after the heap of backlash that got him.
I hadn't a clue he tried to crawl back, succeeded, only to crumble it all again with the exact same caliber of petty lie.
Fucking unreal lmao.
It was so odd seeing everyone just accept him back and act like he was some chill dude. All of the people that continued to fw him after that came off as spineless imo.
Literally same. Lol. Holy shit I cannot fucking stand people like John. The dude has probably made more money than I'll ever see in my life, and he's just such an asshole, and is if anything just as much of a manipulator if not more, albeit in different ways, than his most scalding callouts. Like, it's not like he has no skills or anything, but GOD. Just the absolute worst.
@@frogfrog7736 I realized that in situations where someone who does horrible things is taken back with no problem, it happens because their audience thinks and would do the same things. Look at Dr.Disrespect, how the HELL does he still have a fan base, and a HUGE one at that? Just shows people's morals and lack thereof.
Funny enough, he could've made it if he just held out until Dream's face reveal where his fans all went nuts on him over some crazy fake allegations.
Wow John Swan was completely disgusting bullying a child that was likely Autistic and calling him a pedo. He was 15 was a creepy statement but he was a kid not an adult, they should have gotten help especially the shitty stuff they did later.
Yeah. The video exposing what Pieman did later had comments like "sorry John Swan". Like, do you all not realize that this campaign by John Swan to harass a 15 year old into feeling suicidal did not prevent their shitty behavior later on? What happened to Pieman was unacceptable. John Swan was making blatantly false accusations to bully a child who clearly had a developmental disorder going on, because he thought it was entertaining.
John Swan has a habit of being like this. He likes treating situations like this as though they're a spectacle and it harms literally everyone involved, including the supposed victims. I hope he never returns to commentary.
Crazy how he's grooming kids on discord now.
Yeah, like the internet doesn't do that in the daily, but double standards
Pie man still a hardcore geek
Yes, the stock communityes.This documentary has shown me that John is trash.But at the same time you all defending and emphasizing with a map is wild to me and also sickening you all need some help
JohnSwan was great when he stayed in his lane. The problem was that as he rose in popularity, his ego got the better of him and he thought he was big-brained enough to do and say whatever he wanted without consequences. The writing was on the wall when he started live-streaming and talking about topics that he clearly knew nothing about, then talking over people who tried to fact-check him. Then, when he realized he could not, in fact, say whatever he wanted without consequences, he lied to save his own skin.
commentary youtubers acting like they should be the moral arbiter over every piece of breaking news has completely devastated the genre, only dude that shit works for is charlie and it's because he doesn't have an opinion.
@wuhlfzebayne more like, people should be more discerning about whose opinions they listen to and internalize. everyone has a right to their opinion, just like all of us have a right to not listen to dumb shit
@@registeredjopperthe issue is when people say things that are clearly provably false then hide behind, “that’s just my opinion though.”
@@wuhlfzebayneI don’t even necessarily think Charlie needs to involve himself in issues that aren’t his wheelhouse. It’s not hard to just talk about things you know enough about to actually speak on.
I can't think of him as great when he was so willing to plagiarise and take advantage of friends
John swan and John Bob should collaborate on a podcast and call it The Detestabled Johnsons.
This is the best idea I've ever heard
Papa John
@@theultrak641 as is prophasized
"The dirty Johns", in reference to portable toilets.
@@InVinoVeratas but also hooker clients as well
Dude that Pie-whatever-guy part was hard to sit through, just picking on this absolute nobody for like the tiniest joke for a debate that Swan gets nothing from
Pieman to "Pie-whatever-guy" try harder lol
@ Try harder? I legit couldn’t be bothered to go back and get his name
@@louspowels7120why argue semantics, unless for the sake of arguing.
The only reason I can see as to why he did this alongside his friends was because he thought it was funny and “righteous” to bully a kid who didn’t fully understand what he did wrong.
Like, John Swan really thought people would look upon him favorably after he bullied a socially challenged child into suicidal thoughts. He called this kid a monster, that him dating a person three years younger than him as a 15 year old would haunt him forever, and he would never be forgiven for it.
He legit talked to this child like he was an actual pedophile. Literally ever single one of John Swan’s monumental screw ups can be pinned on the fact that he thought he would get attention, views, and praise for doing it. Or, he didn’t want to be viewed as anything other than respectful, honest, perfect John Swan. I can’t even call this man a leech. Leeches serve an actual purpose in the world.
@@InVinoVeratas I agree I challenge to Lous Powel to a 3 hour debate over my choice of wording
John Swan’s downfall was an unfortunate, all he had to do was stay away from small commentary drama and stop lying but he couldn’t help it.
John’s worst enemy was himself.
Is it unfortunate when a liar is exposed as a liar and it bites him on the ass?
40:54 "he play's the violin, he's not gonna...."
so did/does avacado.
I played the violin, and I say some out of pocket things. I also have ADHD, so I'm not sure my brain filter is a great comparison
I got jumpscared by Liz having the same pfp as me, I spent a full minute racking my brain trying to remember if I’d ever talked to a British commentary TH-camr before and somehow forgot about it.
I hate it when my sleepwalking disorder makes me set off a drama bombshell overnight that ruins at least two lives lol #justgirlthings
The fucking call where hes like "im not saying anything" is the most petty high school bully type shit ive ever seen
“All he had to do was not jump back down.”
*Chapter 7: DIVEBOMB*
lmao
Got a laugh out of me lol
7:20 grooming can be illegal if you have explicit conversations about sex or send nsfw artwork, p*rn, or ofc pics of genitals regardless of whose they are. In fact just asking for nudes from a minor is illegal and what groomers ask for. It depends on the content of the messages. Influencing a child to smoke, drink, have sex/send explicit messages can be considered aiding in delinquency of a minor AFAIK. The requirements vary state to state but to say grooming is perfectly legal is not completely true.
You're right and wrong. Grooming, despite how common a term it has become, is actually a specific crime in other parts of the world. Aiding in delinquency of a minor might be a charge along with grooming, but grooming can be its own charge (though is harder to prove).
What you're referring to is other crimes which also have the effects of making the child more susceptible. Grooming is specifically the 'predatory conduct with the intent to later facilitate sexual activity with a minor' and doesn't actually need to have any other specific illicit materials/crimes along with it. It's much harder to prove, but it's a thing.
I'm Australian, here's a part from a government website explaining how it works here: "Grooming does not necessarily involve any sexual activity or even discussion of sexual activity - for example, it may only involve establishing a relationship with the child, parent or carer for the purpose of facilitating sexual activity at a later time." So even if they were a wonderful adult friend who was virtuous and good, if they wrote in their diary that they wanted to sleep with the kid when they turned 18, that could get you locked up. That's what isn't a crime in America, grooming isn't illegal. Other inappropriate activities with a minor are illegal, but just getting to know a minor to 'wait until they're 18' is perfectly legal.
@@midnight4685im American and referring to specific charges that can be given that I have seen in court documents relating to sending lewd images to a minor. I’m basing it off my own government and local laws I’m aware of. Thanks for the perspective from your country. Here if you even flirt knowing the age it’s illegal.
@@midnight4685and you made good points comparing my country to yours thank you ☺️ like I said it can definitely vary depending on state too.
Might as well add my correction to this thread;
The p3do that committed seppeku was a sheriff, he didn't do it when the cops came but after he was caught by Chris and before the episode aired. Worth mentioning also there were a LOT of legal criticisms about the show and how the police and the TV crew were more often then not working together instead of staying two distinct entities. I'm pretty sure a lot of the cases the show made got thrown out because of different legal issues too, and of course there was the issue of airing the episodes before they had been convicted of anything. When you start digging into the legal aspects of the show...it really didn't help anything that much.
@@midnight4685
When specifically talking about Onision and how his case would have potentially gone, yes he could have been charged with grooming. The issue that popped up and ruined everything IIRC was when Chris Hansen got ahold of the evidence...then he gave it to his lawyer or something? And it sat for months not going to authorities. Like, an absurd amount of time. I don't think it _ever_ reached the authorities actually, and it was presumed that the evidence was considered tainted now since so many other people had touched it. Something like that.
But yeah, in the US grooming is considered a crime in most states. It might not be called that in the statute but the actions of grooming are illegal.
ETA: oh it was covered briefly in the video, dunno why I didn't think it would be. It was Kai that the evidence was against then, not Onision, and I'm remembering now the huge issue with all the other victims of Onision was that they either A) didn't have good evidence against him or B) refused to go against him. That was the massively frustrating part about...him, and what made the fumbling of the Kai case so infuriating. So he could have been charged...if there was sufficient evidence.
I can’t put down the cup
I can't put down the cup
I can't put down the cup
@imhuman444 i cant put down the cups 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I can't put down the cup
I can’t put down the cup
I will never understand why people go foam at the mouth crazy for the Dream hate and just make shit up. The guy has enough stuff to already criticise and hate him for but youtubers just go feral when they see him and make shit up about him instead of just saying "yeah hate him" and moving on.
Bro i remember when every month someone will just make a contreversy up about him
Glad he's finally getting some peace even tough i don't watch him
Good christ, seeing my Camy art in the Divebomb portion of the video is so surreal.
Kinda crazy I was around during that drama.
Not this being the way that I found out about the origins of “SUZY, NOOOOO” when I constantly quote it
what?
Legitimately I said out loud "THATS where that clip is from?" 😂
John Swan still existed after the shitshow with Dream?! Damn dude, what have I been missing out on?
I didn't even realize I was still subscribed to him until I saw this video, but even then I hadn't seen any of his videos on my feed since the last Suzy lu one....? Jeeeez, we missed out 😅😅😅
absolutely clinical how many problems nick seems to find himself in because he just puts faith in the wrong guys; John Swan, Technicals, Tipster, Bowblax, and possibly more.
not saying nick is the common denominator here; and i get why nick defends people he thought were his friends; but damn i feel bad for the kid
I mean, Nick wasn't the only one who was friends with them.
And, honestly, I'd say Augie was the bigger culprit. He befriended and brought in people like Flamenco and Bowblax.
Can't wait until people randomly find dirt on nick at this point
It’s the Nick Curse bro
What Technicals do?
Nick is a dickhead who brings this on himself 🤷🏻♂️ maybe he doesn't do this shit Personally, but he Is the common denominator. He attracts people like this for a reason
you would have thought that the lesson to be learned from documenting chris hansen's past was that it doesn't matter how much you look up to someone, they can and will still do messed up stuff off camera. that's probably a good lesson to have learned for the commentary community too before they backed john swan against dream
41:41 really proves how childish every drama that comes out of this community is. giving a grown man the "im not mad, just disappointed" spiel over a really bad and dumb lie he told. the more i hear about the commentary community the more it really does feel like kids fighting during recess
They all think they sound a lot tougher than they actually are
what do you expect from the male version of a bunch of catty grandmas gossiping over a game of bridge at the local diner? literally all that binds them to each other is gossip.
all of these people really need to go outside
The John swan fall from grace, was my favorite. When they were still in discussions about IF the autistic cousin existed, I was in the comments starting fights with John's fans. It was great fun!
Who are you?
@NeeceLoneWolf a ghost
@CapsuleCorpxz I don't know why but that reply made me chuckle 😂 imma have to say that now
@@samcrane7084 👻
@@samcrane7084 👻
In his return video about talking about Dream, he said that he wished Dream had empathized with him? But he did? That is why he didn't release the screenshots??? bro.
The Dream Swan thing made all these commentary dudes look so stupid. A bunch of hypocritical idiots
4:06 Leave it to keemstar to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory
god it feels like every time you think there is a good guy in this story they turn around and do some brand new never before seen shitty thing
John Swan looks like a guy who auditions to be an extra on Doctor Who and doesn't even get a call back.
John is what you get when the persona you create for yourself is diametrically opposite of the person you actually are.
If he had just embraced the scummy side he tried to keep secret, he would probably be loved. I think it's ok to have an alter-ego of sorts online, so long as that alter ego doesn't make you a hypocrite.
52:12 look gery, there i am!
"If you know the answer you know the answer" says everything really.
An Australian with obsession in copyright law. I see a pattern...
He is British..
@@aristocratStudios No hes not 😭
@@aristocratStudios Why do Americans always get Australians and British confused?
@DiabeticGremlin07 He literally is, he sounds British and it literally says he is from the UK, I do know what Australians sound like because I literally live there
@DiabeticGremlin07 I don't really know WHY, but as an American I do genuinely get a lot of British and Australian accents confused. Some accents are a lot more distinct and I can tell "oh that guy's an aussie" but sometimes they're less distinct and I have a really hard time differentiating them. Might be just because a lot of us don't regularly hear accents from either place so it's difficult to pick up on the subtler differences? I dunno
Your videos are really good and i feel unlike a lot of people in this field you dont seem to, idk revel in the drama of it all. You're not keemstar high of the drama drug, but youre also not like some lolcow youtubers who just like to point and laugh at peoples lowest point. your videos are nice and fun to listen to and have a nice flow to them. For your age youre definitely going places, hope you keep being you and not go down the path of John Swan. As for John, your comparison to a fireman who saves a baby and then starts setting fires to relive the glory is very apt, really just seems like he got high off of the attention.
John Swan was really never a hero. He was just another loser commentator that just got too popular. Thank God he finally got what was coming to him.
At this point we need to look into his whole friend group. I feel like everyone in it so far has been questionable over and over.
I used to be a fan of John's and after the dream incident I haven't followed him since, he lost credibility and that for me is you lose that its all over, interesting to see he had more after that. it still somewhat has affected how I viewed TRO, but with him I feel he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, I hope John stays away forever.
thank you for calling out lanza as a creator, iirc he also did some victim blamey shit that caused me to stop watching him so hes just a mess
John Swan video? Was not expecting that, but thank you for the delicious content Toast man
Ok I haven't finished the video still gonna, but... DAFQ OU MEAN HE WAS BORN IN SOUTH AFRICA... I have never heard anyone mention that part before and as someone born and living there... its the biggest shock of my life knowing how far he had fallen from grace in his career... what the fuck
Same😭 I was like "HUH!? HE LIVED HERE!???? WDYM???"
@Ayyyitsakira I KNOW... dat is some mind fucking shit right there
I remember thinking how shit John Swan was and how annoying his voice and tendency to make insanely ridiculous claims. I never realized he so blatantly copied people but he had a knack for taking a simple thing and turning it into a conspiracy by blowing it out of proportion and creating a narrative around it that was completely false, especially with allegations against TH-camrs.
This was years ago but I was always astounded how little everyone seemed to care about the blatant shit he stirred and lies he told in order to do so. Not saying I was the first or anything but jesus christ it feels like it took forever for people to not only notice but condemn this piece of shit.
What a trip down memory lane! Absolutely banger video, Toastify. I remember when a lot of this stuff happened and watching this video has reminded me of so many things I almost forgot about. Like Suzie for example. That was a crazy story, and I remember it kickstarting a lot of the conversations and arguments people make nowadays defending transformative content and fair use in commentary. I also find it interesting just how many content creators initially gathered around covering Onision and how far they've come since then. We lost a few along the way, but it's amazing to see many of them still thriving as creators. Another interesting thing is that I totally forgot that JustDestiny even existed. I actually used to watch JustDestiny content. It's just really crazy seeing all of this stuff in hindsight and seeing how the dominoes fell one by one, leading up to now. Again, amazing video. A+ content ✨️
A young swan is called a “cygnet,” not a “duckling.”
My own pedantry aside, cheers for the upload. It’s still weird to remember this all happening at the time.
r/wooosh
I knew about his situation with Dream but not the other stuff and what really sticks out is what a big liar he is and how pathetic he is
The more I learn about Chris Hansen the more I'm convinced that he was nothing more than Mamamax for millennials. Maybe not that cringy but just as "productive" and "helpful"
there are parallels for sure, especially in his later career.
a while back i saw someone call Mamamax “Chris Hansen, as played by Jared Leto” and thought that was an unfortunately apt comparison
Well Chris Hansen did actually get pedos arrested.
Excellent video as always. In regards to the Hansen/Onision case, his behavior was less "less than perfect," more absolutely bungling and ridiculously idiotic.
Sending it to a random asshole unrelated to any law enforcement agency or law office makes it incredibly hard to account for the evidences handling and analysis. Chain of custody is paramount in getting evidence admitted into a case if it goes to court. Without proper chain of custody, there can always be a shadow cast over it as potentially having been tampered with. It was insanely neglectful of Chris to approve something like that. It belonged in the hands of an actual reputable lawyer working with them and the victim.
A Toastify video sh*tting on Johnson Swanson?
*Good.*
Why did you censor shitting
A question about the Dream situation, doesnt changing your name or profile picture on Discord require entering your passowrd?
If you were to believe Jon, youd have to accept one of two situations. 1. Jon gave his family member his password.
2. The family member saw Jon enter the password. This also means Jons family member is Rain man.
"D-Definitely."
For about a month I thought that John Swan became Jalyn
Wow! John Swan is a piece of shit for bullying a child for content and not apologizing. What Pieman went through at the time, being a kid at the time, must had been traumatic.
John Swans videos were so good. Its sad he fell off so hard.
So talented yet so stupid in his decisions 😅
Didn't watch the vid yet, but I come to expect informative pieces on your end.
For a decade or more of observing the commentary community and never got my head around what exactly happened to Swan, hopefully video delivers.
after watch edit: what a slimy liar. The right opinion being quiet while this shit was happening and he knew is indicative of his character (won't say the truth if it doesn't benefit him). The commentary community is where morals go to die and good people go to lose sanity.
I guess the only reason John chose to side with dream during the whole cheating stuff was probably how lenient he was towards him when he made those lies against him.🐱
Kid Danger: *wearing his purple scarf on his neck wearing his mighty pup movie outfit looking surprised* Jesus Christ! How to RUIN your career on social media 101!
you sure said it Kid Danger
Thanks Kid Danger
@@KidDangerthepony you use fandom wikis huh
Well, I suddenly am busy for the next 87 minutes. Well done Toastify 👏
It's so good watching someone else's downfall on my second monitor while farming and drinking a nice cup of coffee.
You just pulled me back through 5 years of BS I had forgotten about....
27:15 15 year olds can be pedophiles
15 year olds talking like that to a 12 or 13 year is wrong and yes he knows it’s wrong. Child on child grooming and SA is real. Age is not an excuse and him admitting he knows it’s wrong to be attracted implies he is a predator.
-I’m a CSA survivor by a family member a couple years my junior and an adult before that when in daycare.
Predatory behavior is not just age.
Also there are MASSIVE differences between a 12/13 year old and a 15 year old. Anything sexual between them is illegal.
it is totally understandable and correct, But This doesn't excuse John swan from accusing the 15 year old of being a PDF file that didn't do any of that awful and horrific things that He himself did. Still, I'm sorry for what you've been through and I hope you found peace and healing from that traumatic incident and may that family member get karma coming to them hard and fast.
It's weird but what he did falls under none of those things it is creepy and wrong though but there's not enough to really call him a pedo.
@@Feliciathedollyou’re absolutely correct. 15 is an impulsive age too. There’s time to correct behavior especially with intervention. His lashing out at a kid who has time to change who clearly was remorseful is nasty work. It totally makes it more difficult for kids like him to want to get help at all.
Why is doctor skipper involved in so many of these dramas and no one ever notices
Whoah! Who did that intro?! That was awesome
Me thx👅
Wow Chris Hansen got caught for the thing he was doing a show about
Fun fact Kai (xzae now) Still thinks he won that debate
Bro he had so much potential to be one of the biggest commentary yters
John swan redemption arc 2025. Surely he can’t make up fake allegations for the 3rd time
Can we get one gosh darn ytber who doesn't ruin their everything!
There are plenty, but none are in the drama community. When you start nitpicking and criticizing others you invite the same of you, and everyone has flaws. I say this as someone who loves the drama/lolcow community btw lol.
But yeah if you want wholesome yters, go to wholesome communities.
@PointsofData I mean like 70% of my childhood ytbers have turned out bad
@@PointsofDataIs either that or pedophiles.
42:19 It's so funny how these people sound exactly like each other but one of them's 'stralian
14:33 Whoa.
Idk, 15 and 18 is still a wierd gap. Even by the cold math of X÷2+7=Good, so 18÷2(=9)+7= 16, this gap is still a year off. But it still just feels icky too. Like, i dont remember hittin on 15yr olds when i was 18 🤔
I love that neither Nick or John can pronounce "Medellín"
I suspect that's further evidence of it being plagiarism, rather than simply summarizing the same story beats in a similar way.
John Swan is Iago from Othello: “Demand me nothing: what you know, you know…”
Awesome video! First saw it on Chuds stream, but had to watch the whole thing on its own. Love the editing, the narration, etc.
I remember when it all went down, but was just starting watching TH-cam, so I didn’t know the people as well as I do now, like Nicholas
Detective Deckard was in that group chat interesting. I liked the limited amount of videos that he made early on.
The whole time I was watching this i was thinking about how he could still actually come back from this, but I had forgotten about the Cami drama lol so nevermind.
John Swan the type of guy to make fun of people for not talking to women (who cares) and never go outside
1:26:30 I think the one thing I take away from John's story is that if you find that you're good at something, make that your thing. Dont try to do everything yourself. Talented at editing but not so good at presenting the story? Edit someone else's videos. I think it's ego that makes people think they have to do everything solo and be the front runner of a drama.
Aiden projects called out as low effort commentary lol
I notice that he is one of the commentary youtuber whom would maliciously fabricate drama getting into fights or even false accusing other personalities so he have drama to cover whenever a big drama dies down and the commentary community enters a "light season"
I have been waiting patiently for this toastify
Oh I'm sorta early to a Toastify Video. Nice
9:20 Ahhh, The Suzy Lu Convo lol...I was there on the call, Good time's 🫡🎖️
1:00:36 anddddd you ignored Tech's response to John then. Cool, aite. Felt like that was straight up ignored
He tends to ignore some information in some videos
Cause the video ain't about technicalls bruh
@darkcat6530 "the video ain't about technicals, but let us ignore that Technical's video actually destroyed John again and just push it into the background, don't matter"
youre a weirdo if you think 15yo going after a 12yo is normal. when i was 15 i wanted to date people my age or older (cause i was 15 and old people were cool) wanting to date a tween as a teen is weird. it's like wanting to date a younger sibling or something, someone who may just started puberty.
This is one step closer to “The Disappearance Of Laraze” video
1:22:54 "Alleged comedian" was so unnecessary, yet so accurate lol.
The way Nick handled John Swan raised my respect for him in the community. He could have stood by John Swan in the lie but instead he outed his friend to keep his integrity intact.
I remember when I was 14, I was in quite a few commentary TH-camr circles on Twitter and I made friends there. This led to me being added to a group chat with this guy (John Swan).
He was so unnecessarily rude from what I remembered, and older than me by a bit. I was an immature kid, so I was pretty annoying and emotional, but this guy was just… yikes. Kinda makes sense he made fun of kids in videos. And he wasn’t that good at arguing/making points either, his texts kind of read like a pretentious guy who thought he was right about everything. Even at 14, I could see that. 😭
I still watched commentary for years after and only now at 20 am I even seeing anything about him - and it’s a video about his downfall. Damn. 💀
small criticism, in this video you make statements like "everyone hates dream" without mentioning that the allegations are false. I feel like this shoulda been in the vid
I mean, There WAS evidence that he did after all.
dream is an attention rhymes-w/-door freak, hating him is normal
If this is about the cheating, he did cheat. Just not intentionally. TLDR a mod that was supposed to be for his content creation stuff like manhunts and whatnot was unknowingly active during his speedruns, and he didn't know about this until well after when the person that made the mod for him was finally questioned about it. This doesn't negate all the BS Dream was doing like the whole astrophysicist thing and him and his community attacking the moderators.
The commentary channel community is an insular sphere full of endless cycles of people building each other up then tearing them down.
19 minutes in and I can already see how john swan's career resulted in destructive results
As much of a pathological liar John is, Cam is completely a groomer. Like how do y'all think 15 and 18 is okay? They're completely different developmental stages.
no seriously. at 18 i never once thought about dating a 15 year old. its gross.
I bet you both rode a special kind of bus and your parents are related.
You both have Velcro on your shoes don't you??
@@NeeceLoneWolf LMFAOOOOOOOOOO real proud of those zingers arent you
yeah its a bit odd for someone going on 19 to still be after high schoolers. "yeah i'll be right over i have to pick up my girlfriend from detention first"
@@NeeceLoneWolf Give us yo files, lil bro
John wanted to be the hero and the villain of his own story. And to be completely honest, it's ironic that, being the storyteller he was, has to listen to everyone else tell his tragic story.
It’s a shame… This is the problem with raising a whole generation to think no one can make a single mistake. They think they can’t either. If he would’ve just admitted it from the jump… Said he was jealous of dream having followers and just desperate to get his attention… Or whatever… just something that would humanize him… Something that would make anyone understand or be able to see themself in his mistake… Sure, some (young idiots who dk we all make mistakes) people would be mad… But it would’ve blown over… He wouldn’t have lost his whole career
It really is a shame
"I'm making less than half of what i should" oh, he's one of those
I have watched both Nicholas and John since the pandemic and honestly that call you can hear nicholas' broken frustration when he called him out with such a statement before saying "I'm sorry". That hits.
calling a child a pedophile for being attracted to another child is next level straw grasping and its really weird how invested this larger youtuber was in all of this like he was his dad or something
What John Swan did caused so many long lasting issues. For example, TRO and J Aubrey used to be friends and John Swan's actions caused that friendship to fall apart - they used to appear in each others vids and after JS they didn't. A good friendship blown apart by JS's lies. This is not the only case where JS's actions have had a long term effects.
I remember all this going down in real time. Great video. ❤
idk if you will see this but i love the way you title your chapters lol. "phoenix" because he rose from the ashes. super cool lol
2:05 to be fair you cant arm-chair diagnose people😂
Nicholas Deorio always seems to be on the winning side in the end. Crazy the way John Swan apparently always copied him, right to the end.
The Internet Should Be 25+ Change My Mind, Challenge Level Impossible
Nice video, I liked it a lot; I'm a huge fan of longform content, and the storyline is concise and well edited.