Who should've been the Primera Espada - Baraggan or Starrk? It's a question that looks very different today when compared with when the arc was releasing weekly. How does Starrk fare against Respira? Now we know about the Aspects of Death in relation to Espada ranks, was Baraggan forever doomed to be Number 2? And in this current world, does being Number 2 really even matter? Let me know your thoughts - thanks everyone!
Well the Bleach Novels imply that Barragan was one of the oldest and strongest Hollows in existence. Barragan is older than Starrk, and the novels seem to imply that Barragan was much stronger when he was younger and fighting other Insanely powerful Monster Hollows for the right to rule Hueco Mundo. Then Barragan got weaker when he became King and got lazy. He stopped pursuing the path of power. Perhaps the #2 ranking is symbolic because it signifies that Barragan has allowed himself to grow weaker due to complacency. Kings often get weaker once they gain the throne and run out of enemies to fight. If Barragan kept training and fighting other Hollows, then perhaps he would have a "Segunda Etapa" transformation (like Ulquiorra). Kubo did say in an interview that ALL Espada are capable of Segunda Etapa if they train and grow stronger.
Always remember Aizen said battles are fought by reatsu. barrigan fought Soifon the worst captian, starrk fought Kyorakou and Jushiro along with 2 former captains. Smh reatsu the size of an ocean dismisses that of a pond if barrigans power cant beat CFYOW icimichidomoi it means he has a weaker reatsu and aging is only absolute for weaker or on par beings, you really don't remember he tried aging Aizen, Gin and Tousen. In conclusion the larger the Reatsu the more likely to dismiss the opponents power, ask yourself this do you think Barrigan could age out Yamamoto Bankai slash or Dangai Ichigos Mugetsu, for a matter of fact i know Barrigans couldnt beat Kirio Hikifunes cage that absorbs Reatsu and his attacks are using reatsu. Aizen put him at his correct possition #5 behind him, Gin, Touses, Starrk, should be 6 behind Ullqiora.
@@MrTommo2304 A better question: How can Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu work on Barragan if Barragan has NO EYES ? . . . . . Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't work on Tousen who is blind.
Well the Bleach Novels imply that Barragan was one of the oldest and strongest Hollows in existence. Barragan is older than Starrk, and the novels seem to imply that Barragan was much stronger when he was younger and fighting other Insanely powerful Monster Hollows for the right to rule Hueco Mundo. Then Barragan got weaker when he became King and got lazy. He stopped pursuing the path of power. Perhaps the #2 ranking is symbolic because it signifies that Barragan has allowed himself to grow weaker due to complacency. Kings often get weaker once they gain the throne and run out of enemies to fight. If Barragan kept training and fighting other Hollows, then perhaps he would have a "Segunda Etapa" transformation (like Ulquiorra). Kubo did say in an interview that ALL Espada are capable of Segunda Etapa if they train and grow stronger. But Barragan did not. He sat on a Throne and did nothing once he was King.
That's brilliant. Not just becuase he got weaker logically as a king, but because the aspect of death called time decay age, simply got weaker with age. He's number 2 and like many old men who look at a younger man with envy over his youth..... Wait. What if he Starrk is misremembering. What if Starrk was a part of Barragan?
You know, if the aspects are tied to the position, it's telling that Aizen selected Loneliness as the aspect of the strongest Espada. After all, according to Ichigo at the end of Deicide, Aizen was always alone. Always too strong to be accepted. It kinda humanizes Aizen to think that he saw something of himself in Stark, and that's the reason he made him Primera.
The aspect of death being locked to one position is pretty stupid, in my opinion. It makes way more sense to just have the aspect of death associated with whatever character it is being given too.
That’s what I assume it is. They just choose the strongest person who represents that aspect. And the numbers shift depending on reiatsu levels. (As we see with Yammy, Rage goes from 10, to 0)
@@1ManNamedDanWhat does that even point out, Shinigami are literal gods of death but they have always had a reaper like association, so not a violent killer but rather the being that will bring you to the afterlife The Espada literally embody an aspect of death, so the cause of death itself He's saying the aspect being locked in place means that the order of Espada would be wrong in terms of strength pretty much always, which is dumb there should be some basis on which the characters strength or capabilities can change their position otherwise why even rank them by number, you could just then rank each group by their aspect and have the strongest of each aspect be the leader, therefore making groups without tying it to a certain number or position Edit: repeated myself so I fixed it
Yeah it kind of seems like Kubo changed his mind when he realized some of his choices for the Espada didn't make sense. Ironically, changing all of these details only makes things more convoluted
@@megabladechronicles962 I can see your point on that, Stark seems to have the most explosive power ie. He could straight spam massive cero from his guns nonstop with his ridiculous reiatsu However Baragan seems to have the most potent ability ie. He could literally age anything including kido and other things that can last thousands if not millions of years, and he did that very fast, just imagine an ability so powerful you can be killed from just a single moment touching it and it's very nature is so powerful even the caster can't escape it's clutches Yammy.... Seems like he was a very disliked character and I believe we didn't really get to see him do anything, if his ability to store reiatsu was as ridiculous as it seemed he should have been able to, at the very least, release an attack of ridiculous power and proportion simply because of his incredible amount of energy Now it's been a few years since I read the manga, but I remember the Espada was that quite literally there just to trump The Captain Commander, don't remember the number position of this Espada, but it obviously shouldn't have been ranked very high since it was practically useless besides the one time use on Yamamoto
One thing about Starrk that tends to get overlooked is his his soul’s power is so dense that it can literally split into unique instances of life. The contrast between Barragan’s power and Starrk’s is the contrast between creating death and creating life.
Kind of like kenpachi and yamamoto ngl. Kenpachi made Yachiru due to so much power even when sealed. Yamamoto has the ability to burn anything that comes close to him
always impressed by your ability to dig through the piles of old content to find one snipped of relevant context that adds to the point/story. it's like you have every detail of Bleach bookmarked lol
@@vileluca They are not weak. Dont forget Barragan was playing with his food and it allowed them to create strategies and out smarted him by using his own power against him. 👍 Non of those soul reapers were weak. 👍
It’s crazy to think that when Baraggan was ruling Hueco Mundo, Starrk was just wandering around and wasn’t even challenged or acknowledged by Barragan. I see it as either he just actually didn’t know about Starrk or he was kinda “scared” to approach him due to the fear of losing his throne
I still believe the rankings are ranked on lethality. Aizen simply chooses the strongest of each aspect, so those are set. But the numbers aren’t, so they shift depending on the strength of the person representing the aspect. Much like Yammy, the aspect of rage started at 10, then shifted to 0.
a huge problem that exists with trying to scale them in terms of power with each other is the vast difference in their opponent take espada 4 and forget his second transformation even his normal transformation that all the others had he was able to move so fast Ichigo couldn't even see his movements Analyst completely and utterly outclassed now again forget the second transformation so we would assume that Espada rank one that his transformation should be superior By quite a bit to Espada 4 first transformation but because Stark is fighting someone who is much stronger than each ago starker doesn't seem to be that much better than rank 4 because the speed and the way we the audience perceives speed scales to how strong somebody is so we the audience have no way to know how fast is stark compared To Espada Rank 4 We got a glimpse of his incredible speed when He was able to In base form Move in and out of Ichigo's range of detection without him being able to do anything about it
I always thought Kubo was setting up a confrontation between Baraggan and Yama. Even if the first got completely dominated, he should've decimated everyone, forcing the head captain's intervention like what happened with Ayon
According to interviews, Kubo was suffering from health problems during the Espada and Kara Kura town Invasion arc. He was also having big disagreements with Shounen Jump Editors. Shounen Jump refused to give Kubo a break to have surgery for his health, and wanted Kubo to keep working and stretch out the Espada story even more. It would not surprise me if Kubo had plans for Barragan VS Yama, but abandoned them due to health reasons or resentment against SJ staff.
Even if the outcome would have ended in an overwhelming defeat for Barragan that still would have been more interesting than what we got with Soifon prior to Hachi arriving. She had no business fighting someone who was such a terrible matchup against her.
Yamamoto had more hype than Aizen, whom had more hype than Barragan. Yamamoto vs Barragan was never gonna work out. If Yamamoto were to be put against Barragan then he might as well fight and solo the rest of the Arrancars in Fake Karakura Town. Kubo had him stay busy setting up Ennetsu Jigoku and interrupting the process once to aid a crisis(Ayon).
@@raymondyongho5757 it would be more interesting if barragan work with ichigo fight aizen because he hates aizen and wants go back hueco mundo and just chill lmfao
I kinda like the explanation that Tekking101 suggested, that being that Aizen assigned the rankings like that as just another little way of saying "fuck you" to Barragan, even after humiliating him at his throne. Like in terms of ability and power, of course Barragan beats Starrk, but Aizen just really wanted to keep driving that dagger in deeper that HE was in charge, and Barragan just had to roll over and accept it.
Nahh, Stark was the perfect Counter to Barragan. We saw Barragan could take damage from a full scale bomb, before his respira destroyed it. The wolves would blitz and bite down and nuke indefinitely, Stark wouldn't even have to use his own hands. Just the fact that the system is a reishi based system, he has more reishi than Barragan and would have the reserves and fire power to deal with him. The writing around Stark was just.. really bad. He shouldve been something like an Anti-Soul King, for the Hollows. He should've been the new King of Hueco Mundo, as a good guy, forever evolving into something stronger and always being relevant and rivaling the bad guys. A king Stark versus King YWACH fight would've been EPIC. And maybe because Stark is a Hollow he gets very very close to killing YWACH, but fails at the final step. Maybe an Arc where he trains Grimmjow on how to also split his soul and evolve and ruling as a sort of benevolent king, would've been fantastic. Stark had so much potential, but Kubo was starting to feel the pressure of the extended arc weighing everything down.
That's putting a bit too much weight on Stark's character. Sure, he's the Primera, but he is also a slacker who doesn't put much effort in unless absolutely necessary. Also, I would say his power at best would make him the Hollows' answer to Zaraki.
You're comparing the wolves to a literal nuke, that he still withstood from point blank range. The only reason he even got hit was because he couldn't move, something that Starkk wouldn't be able to replicate. Let's be real here. He'd age away all of the wolves before they'd get to him, and they're not infinite; they're parts of him.
@@Dexx1syou could say they'd last long enough but I agree. A gran ray cero would be far better anyway. They're insanely strong. Also stark can't negate respira. Aizen, who was basically Yamamoto levels of reiatsu, only could negate one of the weakest captains when she lost an arm, had no energy from her bankai and more.
I always felt it was an odd choice for Kubo to pick Soi Fon of all Captains to go up against Barragan. There were much better choices to go up against the King of Hueco Mundo.
It wasn't just her though, it was hachi too. Ngl hachi was the mvp of that fight. Soi fon didn't do much aside from her bankai. Hachi actually got the kill off. Ooouhhhh boyyyy that girl soi fon pisses me tf off, her snotty attitude is irritating.
To me an Espada has to fit an aspect of death but the order is rearranged by lethality. The ranking being affected only by the aspect of death is ridiculous imo
That's probably how I see it as well. Nnoitora being despair at number 8 eventually grows strong enough to be Espada number 5 which is then becomes the number that represents despair.
The numbers were given by aizen, it may be that he fears being alone more than the passage of time and natural death. Remember that ichigo felt loneliness from him during their fight, and, to be honest, he truly had no equal during his whole life.
@@Dragonpuncher123 IT means EVERYTHING with power. Kubo himself stated several times that there is no Espada stronger than Yammy. Other than the previous number 0, Cien. After him, Starrk was described as "the most deserving of the number Primera Espada title".
The bottom line for me about this whole espada number debate is that kubo completely dropped the ball and made it even worse with his "revelations" on his blog. The parts of the story where he improvised on an open plot point and the parts where he had a goal in mind are very VERY clear and easy to spot. The whole zero espada stuff, not giving focus on other espada members that were fan favorites, not giving some of them back stories or more info, all these things are just bad aspects of the story and we have to make our peace with it. There's little to no point in arguing until we collectively believe there was no poor writing in some parts.
@@fangsilver1977 But now the numbers are also each an aspect of death and Espada are assigned based on which aspect they fit in with. Which is, why Luppi just took over 6th from Grimmjaw even though he obviously was weaker. That is also from Kubo. So for me the numbers are useless now and they were always dumb. Yammy might potentially have the most reiatsu, but in an actual fight he wouldn't have a chance against Respira, Cero Metallica or Ulquiorra spamming Lanza del rampago. He is painfully slow and huge target. Some times we gotta use what the manga gives us to make our decisions.
@@gstvntt Yeah, if we accept that the numbers don't actually signify strength and see it as a way to just troll both opponents and each other it becomes much better.
Oooh awesome upload. I always thought Starrk deserved his number 1 rank and would beat Barragan handily even if Starrk cant negate respira with his spirtual pressure. He can shoot a thousand cero in an instant which would overwhelm Barragan
Agreed! While I don't think Starrk has quite enough reiatsu to just straight up negate Barragan's Respira, I think Starrk could fire a cero dense enough to where it would reach Barragan before it got rotted out of existence. I think SAFWY actually has a line stating something to that effect. And if Starrk can land a few hits, I think he could definitely win.
@@thewarrior8497 Barragan's "respira" was powerful and quick enough to withstand a point-blank Jakuhō Raikōben and tear through Vaizard-level kidō barriers. There's no chance in hell (lol 😁) that he would be overwhelmed by even a Cero Metralleta.
@@Myakothe barriers were fewer than the Ceros. Not only that but the soi fon bankai is just 1 huge bomb not multiple. Also soi fon was at a huge disadvantage from the jump
Kubo's explanation in Klub outside is just him getting his wires crossed on how he approaches writing the Espada versus in universe explanations. In his head, when he creates the Espada or the extra Espada characters(Example Nel, Luppi), he wants a overarching theme, make them feel like a set and not 10 random fighters. That's not to say they are a team or anything. But the in-universe explanation is different than the creative process. It's just that Kubo(or us) isn't enforcing that separation when he answered the question. He answered the question as the writer, not in his author of Bleach mode. But we took the message (rightly) as readers, viewers, fans, and not as writers ourselves. And I only say that because given what we know about how the Espada works, what Kubo said doesn't make sense from an in-universe perspective. It would only make sense from a creative perspective, theming's, good writing decisions, irony etc. Like the 2 3rd Espada's Nel and Haribel both being women and both being betrayed by trusted allies, seems like a theme, or something Nel and Haribel could bond over or relate to if Kubo ever let them interact. Or Grimmjow and Luppi clashing since they both embody destruction, or the calm Ulquiorra butting heads with Grimmjow, thinking his destruction is stronger than Ulquiorra's emptiness, etc. I mean what Kubo said doesn't add anything to the story. It's not a little detail that fills in a blank, or is a little lore nugget. It just straight up contradicts what is in the source material or even the databooks, which Kubo probably barely remembers at this point if at all.
Ultimately it came down to Kubo wanting to put twists in for surprises that Stark was the Primera. Everyone up to the reveal would draw parallels between Yamamoto and Barragan(there's even a panel in the manga directly of the two exchanging looks while in command of their respective sides), just as parallels were drawn between other Espada and Captains with Stark virtually being a doppelganger of Shunsui's laid back personality and appearance. Kubo did the same thing with Yammy, because he'd not planned that from the start.
Yammy had a lot of foreshadowing to his true rank and I believe he was planned from the start. Ulquiorra, when saying yammy would have no way to fight kisuke and yoruichi, stated, "at ur current lvl", implying yammy has ways to rise exponentially stronger. In hueco mundo, the gang were encountering espadas starting from the weakest up, 1 by 1, yet yammy was nowhere to be found despite tge gang already fighting noitorra.
@@Blackmustache870 not really, because we have several aspects of conversations that reveal Yammy wasn't planned or hinted at. 1: Ulquiorra flat out states in terms of power he's number 4(back when that's what the Espada Ranks were based on) which doesn't make sense if there are four Espada above him(he'd then be fifth) 2: Similarly, before the twist with Yammy's 0 reveal, the Espada were specifically referred to as 10 individuals numbered 1-10(including by other members of the Espada) 3: Aizen's group against Karukura town is presented as the most powerful, which makes little sense with Yammy's reveal that he was left behind. 4: Aizen meets privately with Halibel, Barragan and Stark on the details of the upcoming invasion, but does not include Yammy or any of the lower ranking Espada. 5: Yammy had already been encountered and humiliated at the introduction of the Espada, he's then humiliated again by Uryu(dropped through the floor) and is sidelined by the more powerful Espada throughout the Hueco Mundo arc until his twist reveal as 0.
@grandadmiralzaarin4962 1. Ulquiorra was playing on ichigos knowledge of the espadas. From ichigos pov, there's only espadas 1-10. That or Ulquiorra was serious and he considers himself stronger than hallibel due to his 2nd release. Either way, there's many ways u can take this statement that's still doesn't contradict yammys og rank. 2. How much knowledge do u believe a fraccione would know about the espadas as a whole? Sure, they know the most basic things, but do u rlly believe they inside knowledge on everything? A real espadas word>>>a fracciones word. Not retconned. It's like saying ichigo thinking Ulquiorra was 1 and then he turned out to be 4, thinking that's a retcon. 3. Aizens group was never stated to be the most powerful. That's what we were lead to believe, but that's the point of a 0 espada TWIST. 4. Similarly to why zaraki can't be head captain despite hus strength, yammy simply isn't trustworthy in a war setting. Imagine his lack of rieatsu sensing makes him jump straight at yammammoto on sight to get one shotted. He's useless for the directive of an actual goal, but he's still the most powerful in a fight. 5. Duh, that was base yammy, not released yammy. The only espada that sidelined him was ulquiorra but that's only because yammy was still in base AGAIN. None of what u said refutes the fact that ulquiorra foreshadowed yammys 0 rank earlier than all ur claims.
@@Blackmustache870 1: No, we never have an instance of Ulquiorra lying to Ichigo about either his power or position. You can try and do the mental gymnastics to make it work, but the answer is simply that Kubo hadn't thought of 0 Espada level yet. Like nearly all Shonen, Bleach evolved constantly as it was told as the story changed. 2: Quite a lot of knowledge, Fraccione are basically the Lts/seated members of their respective Espada. That would be like thinking the Lts and seated members of the Gotei 13 didn't know how the Captain rank worked within their structure. 3: Aizen's group were stated to be the most powerful twice, both when Ulquiorra mentions Aizen left for Karakura town and later how each of those Espada spoke to their opponents on their positions/powers. 4: You'll note that Zaraki is still expected to show up to meetings and is present for most of the critical plans where he's given his assignments specifically due to his power. 5: No, again, Yammy as 0 wasn't a thing yet in Kubo's mind. Yammy and Ulquiorra's introduction was a direct reference/tribute to Nappa and Vegeta's arrival on Earth down to their entire dynamic. Kubo was a huge fan of Akira Toriyama and there are references and tributes to Toriyama's work throughout Bleach as Bleach was HEAVILY influenced by DB and DBZ. On the contrary, I've categorically shown evidence and points to support my position. You're incorrect in your opinion, but you're entitled to it, wrong or not.
@grandadmiralzaarin4962 1. "No instance". "Oh wow, he was in one arc, obv his personality of never stated lying cleraly means he's not capable of it!!" Tf kind of logic is that?? 2. Unlike the gotei, who r more lighthearted, the espadas r filled with several members that fracciones of OTHER members would be wary interacting with, noitorra, grimmjow, barragon, sayelzlaporro. So obv, it's not that easy for fracciones to get info like lieutenants. Dordoni Siad espadas get special privileges, so it's not hard to believe that deeper meanings of espadas may be hidden. 3. Ulquiorra never said they were the most powerful. He said karakura town is finished because of aizen and the espadas. The conversation of their ranks was only making their numbers, not saying either we're the strongest. Also, isn't the meaning of a plot TWIST to lead the audience in a completely different pov than they originally thought?? All ur "claims" have just been telling me that u believed yammy wasn't 0 because of what was shown but that's the point of a plot twist. 4. Except aizen deliberately only brought the espadas he planned on bringing into the meeting. What's the point of bringing any espada that wasn't part of the plan?? Again, yammys tge strongest, but he's obviously useless in a war setting. Or r u saying you'd trust zaraki in ANY position of political power?? Also, the meeting was shown AFTER yammys rank as 0 was already revealed, so ur claim is LITERALLY debunked because of that. 5. I'm pretty sure vegeta never told nappa, "at ur CURRENT lvl", he would stand no chance vs goku. He just said he stoo weak for goku. Inspiration doesn't disregard specific dialogue. People like u r the reason series like jjk, black clover, and mha, r considered COPIES instead of Inspiration from popular shounen. U look at what's similar and assume that's the whole thing. I never come across people that r more certain of their "opinion" than people that try to argue against yammy. Most people don't stop in the middle of a debate to exclaim who's right. They keep debating. U clearly know ur in the wrong here.
Bleach is a series full of symbolism and artistic language so I always figured that Loneliness (or Solitude or whatever Starrk is) should be ahead of Time because while Barragan may represent the inevitability of death and its ever-encroaching nature, Starrk is Loneliness and represents the actual act of Death itself. The journey from this life to the next is one that you can only walk yourself, no matter how many people you had in your life. When your final moments pass, the next steps are something that must be faced alone
I don't buy the the ranks are linked to the aspects. I think that when Kubo explained that Hallibel and Nel both embody sacrifice and Grimmjow and Lupi both embody destruction, he more meant that there are always 10 aspects of death, and the espada are the 10 strongest espada of each aspect.
@@JinxeBlaq Tommo isn't the source of this information. A person asked a question about if the Espada with the same number have the same aspect of death or not specifically regarding Nel's aspect, and Kubo responded with something that translates to "Its the same. Nels aspect is Sacrifice". People were confused, so in a Tweet, the "daily bleach scans" said it was tied to the number. Tommo went over this in a video 8 months ago titled "Kubo Reveals NEW DETAILS on ESPADA NUMBERS, Komamura's History, Zanpakuto + More! | Klub Outside Q&A" So it could possibly be a translation issue, but multiple people seem to be saying its not and its been over half a year since then.
For me, i always viewed aspects 3-10 as a spark of what leads to a persons demise and eventual transformation into a Hollow. Time holds the second place, because it is what nurtures the other aspects. For example a moment of despair or sacrifice may be painful, but the ever marching sands of time that bring more and more of the despair, more sacrifices, THAT is was leads a soul to the void of Hueco Mundo. So then why is loneliness at the top? Because it is the fate of Hollows beyond their death. To wander alone never to love or trust another again. Thats why i think the Espada are so beautiful is they break free of the curse of what it means to be a Hollow in their deaths! (Well some do) Also i love my head cannon of Gin asking Aizen how he came up with the list and Aizen just smiling and saying "Why, it is how you make the perfect Hollow" and then performing some truly horrifying expirements on Hollows, cause Aizen lol
To be fair, it wasn't a standard pistol, he just formed his energy into his own version, similar to Lille Barro's sniper diagramm. The energy shot out would be significantly faster and more lethal than a bullet.
I've never been a fan of the "aspect is the rank" twist Kubo threw at us. That said, Loneliness being #1 makes me assume Aizen made the ranks based on his own beliefs and thoughts, as we know Ichigo felt Aizen's "loneliness" when they fought. Loneliness being the one aspect he could not overcome. I guess rage being #0 could relate to the reveal of how pissed he gets when he's getting sealed away by Urahara. On the battle side, I just can't imagine Starrk loses to Barragan. Respira is of course horrendously broken, but the characters we see it effect are not exactly top tier legends, and outside of it Barragan has almost nothing of note. In every other measure Starrk is demonstrably ahead, and I think the reveal that Reiatsu can flat out negate abilities kinda seals the deal for me. The biggest reason for Starrk's lackluster showing is that he didn't have the ruthless mindset. Aizen may have seen a sliver of himself via the loneliness in Starrk, but that was where their similarities ended. A serious, ruthless, or non-ambushed Starrk probably ends up having to be taken out by Kyoraku's bankai for the story to resolve the same way.
I like the concept of death thing, but honestly locking the concept to the number not the character does not make a lot of sense. Ulquiorra mentions that espadas from 4 to 1 are not allowed to release their zampakutos inside las noches, which it makes little sense if you think the numbers represent the aspects but makes a lot of sense if you think that the numbers represent lethality. I don’t like saying this kind of stuff, but to me tying the concepts of death with the numbers was an afterthought on kubo’s part, maybe because the 3 top espadas did not live up to to a lot of peoples’s expectations, maybe because he did not like the initial concept. My opinion won’t change what Kubo said and what is cannon, but in my book the numbers will always mean lethality or reatsu level, with the concepts being tied with the character rather than the position.
Correction, it's 4 and up, not 4 to 1. Yammy releasing near Las noches is just a plot hole. Kubo never said it's one or the other. Kubo just said aspects of death r involved in the ranks, which still brings up a lot if contradicting elements.
Baraggan may be powerful, but Stark is the rightful Primera Espada. Stark's overwhelming spiritual pressure, his ability to split his soul into wolves, and his mastery over loneliness make him a perfect embodiment of the top spot. Baraggan's arrogance and obsession with his past glory are his downfall...he represents the old order, while Stark is calm, composed, and effortlessly strong. The Espada rankings aren't just about raw power; they're thematically driven, and Stark's character fits the idea of the Primera far better than Baraggan. Stark's isolation and control truly make him the most deserving of the title!
The idea of the ranks being locked to the aspects feels like it conflicts with what we're given throughout the story, like Noitra straight saying he's a whole rank stronger than Grimjow, Grimjows actions to remove Ulquorra from the board in order to fight Ichigo, Barragan taking charge in a manner the implies he should be deferring to another, and others I can't think of. All of those could be explained away for different reasons, I know, but in the context of the story and the consistency of how they're used, it feels as though it was initially designed to be a strength ranking.
To be fair, Kubo frequently feeds us info through unreliable narrators, and all the ones who talk about the rankings are Espada, and Aizen could very easily have lied to them about the system and how it works. Aizen conspicuously had little to say about the ranking system.
The way I see it, the aspects of death are more meta than just a basic “in world” explanation the correlation between the ranking of the espada and the aspects of death is found in which Kubo feels to be the worst feeling of them all. Given the way he lives his life now (secluded playing animal crossing) I feel it’s safe to assume that at the time he was writing Bleach that he felt a deep loneliness from within. This is further backed up by the way he depicts Aizen in deicide which would make Stark the primera however the more pronounced and universally accepted worst feeling is that of aging hence why Barragan took charge and was the “king” of hueco mundo. This also explains why Yami would be the 10th and 0 espada as Kubo doesn’t see himself as a violent man but acknowledges that outward rage is the most dangerous of them all as harm towards other is the ultimate evil.
What if the Espada rankings were less general aspects of deaths and more reflections of Aizen himself and that’s the purpose behind their rankings? This might be a little bit of a reach but I kinda feel like the countdown of the Espada’s aspects coincides with Aizen’s life experience. His Greed and Madness led him to begin his experimentation, his Intoxication towards the Hogyoku, his Destruction of the barrier between Soul Reaper and Hollow (and desire to destroy the Soul King), in Desperation he made more drastic moves from the shadows (the betrayal during the Soul Society invasion, the Espada, kidnapping Orihime, etc), his Emptiness towards anyone friend or foe, his willingness to Sacrifice anyone he needed to, once too much Time had passed his impatience kicked in, and after Gin betrayed him he was finally completely Alone, only to eventually lose to Ichigo and Kisuke and the Rage he showed at that moment. It’s kind of a reach but I felt the aspects parallel his journey better than completely representing the characters they’re tied to. Sorry for the long comment and if you or anyone else had thought of this too. Great video and love the channel!
I fully believe this, especially since Aizen was the one assigning the ranks and tying the aspects to them. Of course they would both reflect his own worldview and priorities. It's probably why the rankings are so inconsistent as well. Dude probably changes his mind a lot, has probably lied to his followers about what the ranks even mean, and he barely takes it seriously.
While I don't know how much of the "aspects of death being locked to certain ranks" was planned ahead of time and how much of it is just retconning that we now have to deal with (I honestly suspect not much of it was planned, but admittedly that's pure speculation) I still think it's poetic in a way that Aizen chose Loneliness as the aspect for rank 1, especially considering what Ichigo says about Aizen when he defeats him. Aizen is a profoundly lonely character. He has barely any equal in power in terms of both strength and intellect, and the only people who come close or surpass him in either have very different ideals than he does. He truly is standing alone in his beliefs and abilities. A possible explanation could be that, to an individual like Aizen, dying of old age after a long life is one thing, but suffering that infernal loneliness that Starrk embodies is almost a fate worse than death.
not sure if you guys knew this, but all the Espada that fought in the Fake Kurakura arc were weakened as it was Uryu or Chad explained that powers were stronger in Hueco Mundo, and still were a threat to the captains and also killed like 4 of them
At first I thought it was dumb, but it makes sense that the first espada would represent loneliness since we know that Aizen himself felt immense loneliness because he was so powerful. Maybe the first espada is supposed to represent a level of power that no other hollow can feel
I couldn't see your whole comment on the app and I thought it was going to end as "represents loneliness since we know that... (one is the loneliest number) " That's where my mind went, but I like your take on it, and it makes sense thematically
this really does feel like a retcon. WebCamParrot made a video analysis of Nnoitora quite a while ago. and his conclusion was that he truly always embodied Despair, his aspect of death. even as the 8th. and there was a, i believe in a video game i forget which one, but it was "revealed" that Nel's aspect of death was in fact Lamentation. which i think fits her a lot better than Sacrifice, considering she's always crying. although she doesn't seem to Lament what had happened to her specifically, she does Lament what happened to her two loyal Fraccìon Pesche and Dondochakka (who also Laments quite frequently). it also didn't seem like Luppi embodied Destruction quite like Grimmjow. more so Arrogance. although Grimmjow also embodied Arrogance to a high degree. perhaps the 6th ranking "secretly" has a double aspect?
The aspects of death interested me until kubo implied there were only 10 possible aspects of death. It just seems lazy, but cfyow claiming that luppi resembling destruction implies kubos had this in mind for a while, so idk what to make of it. Barragon states the aspects of death r their entire being. It just doesn't make sense it can be linked with ranks which can change
@@DuBstep115 for me, Club Outside is. since those are just direct Q&A with author Tite Kubo. although, it depends on how jovial he's being. but yeah. i take the light novels with a pinch of salt. since they're different authors and there's a lot of weirdness going on there. and even some contradictory things. i mean one such example: in canon there are only 4 Noble Houses. but in the light novels, there are apparently 5?
@@Blackmustache870 yeah i mean, Luppi sort of does. but Halibel's powers are in no way linked to her aspect of death, unlike say: Yammy, Grimmjow, Baraggan, etc. her powers are water based, but her Aspect of Death is Sacrifice? completely disconnected.
@@strider_hiryu850 The Shiba are a fallen noble house, even if they are of the 5 Great Families. So yes, there are only officially 4 Great Houses. You just have poor reading comprehension skills.
I feel like Aizen put all the arrancar ranks in his own order because not only he knew they would play game of thrones with eachother, but mainly because he was playing off of their strengths. Barragan: OP king of Hueco Mundo. Nobody will see his power coming and to spite the king. Ulquiorra: The hidden actual strongest. No ego and no need to rank high cuz Ulq doesn't care of rank cuz he knows hes strongest inside Yami: strong but needs his ego for growth in strength. Starrk: doesnt want number 1 so the irony spites him yet it also is motivation cuz Starrk wouldve quit if he was low enough rank to not make a huge difference. Noitra: desperate to be number 1 that he will eeearn and train his way up the ranks. Haribell: Forced to join kinda so her rank never mattered to Aizen. Grimmjow: his whole life he was always an underdog so his lower ranking makes him purposely continue his grind cuz thats when hes in his prime. Nel: Unpredictable that her mask broke and the whole kid thing. The only thing Aizen couldnt have expected. Plus she went on to help Ichigo with directions while teaching him how the world works. Shes our story deux ex machina to move the story forward. He chose their ranks very strategicly and sat back seeing how it effectts them while also seeing it all work out as planned.
How does the rank effect the way he moves his plan? Question for u, do u believe any espada is ranked incorrectly aside from barragon and ulquiorra? Because I always hear this argument when people want to claim ulquiorra is the strongest, but they never use this argument to consider that their claim brings up the possibility that espadas like sayelzlaporro zommari or aarienero can be stronger than grimmjow, or even starrk. Why? Because feats prove otherwise. Both feats and statements prove espadas were ranked correctly even if their showings weren't that flashy. The only outlier is ulquiorras second release which is implied to be outside the rankings, but yammy is confirmed stronger than r2 ulquiorra in the databooks.
@@Blackmustache870 Loaded question but i will take it cuz i love Bleach enough to have full convos about it lol ok so im going to answer in the same order of questions and things said... I wasnt saying their order effects how he moves his plan, im saying how he chose their ranks. The ranks are not a tier list in any way like most basic people simplify it like a fighting game tier list lol. The rankings make sense from a character like Aizen. Some characters have shown obvious signs of wanting to be number 1, they get stronger to get that title wich wouldnt happen if they are higher on the list cuz they would grow arrogant. Interactions and personality are important factors too because some characters need a lower or higher rank placement to perform their best or try to earn better ranks. Aizen is the perfect character to know how to manipulate things and strategicly rank them with TONS of factors in his mind, instead of a basic strength scale tier list. The things i put next to the names is Aizen's reasons (minus Ulquiorra and Nel). Ulquiorra is the strongest cuz he has the next evolutionary form noone else is strong enough to unlock. Kinda like he has bankai and everyone else just has shikai only, or in DBZ terms he has SS3 and everyone else has SS1. Either way Ulquiorra can be measured by both feats and by default having a second form in the first place. As far as Grimmjow, he earned his way to become how strong he is by always grinding so hes always getting stronger. Who knows how much stronger hes gotten since his initial ranking and how that scales to him being stronger than higher ranks. Sza doesnt seem interested in how high or low his rank is, therefore Aizen can place others strategicly where he knows they thrive using his personal factors that hes obviously not going to explain to anyone. Also, Before anyone pushes up their glasses and gets overly technical (like a game theory episode), you again have to consider that this is Aizen we are talking about. His ranks make sense to me due to how he plays the Espada/Arrancar like chess pieces. Lastly the databooks have been debunked many times, even by Kubo himself. Im not sure he had a team to remind him of every single variable he might not have remembered. He does admit it in his Q&A KlubKubo alot.
@Clouds12012 "...while also seeing it work our as planned." U said this in ur last sentence as if the espada rankings for some reason matter to his plan. 1. Aizen in fkt upon taking hallibel out states he believed in the espadas strength, but they disappointed him, so while he still viewed them as pawns, he took their ranks seriously, at least in correlation with each other. How is it "basic" people and how is it simplified? The ranks being based on battle power was stated by shawlong directly and entertained by several captains and espadas that brought it up. Again, reaffirmed in the databooks. There's in fact NO source in bleach that contradicts the rankings. Calling this basic is like people who believe ulquiorra is strongest just because 4 represents death in Japan, calls others who prefer to stick to the story, basic. Ur "idea" has nothing to back it up, so until it can be backed up with anything, pls refrain from calling others basic just because they go with the actual story. 2. U didn't answer my question. Do YOU actually believe any of the supposed lower tier espadas r secretly stronger than grimmjow or even starrk, or is ur idea mainly centering around barragon and ulquiorra just so u can claim they're the strongest? U explained ur idea for the explanation of symbolism about where each espada would "ironically" be numbered as for aizens own entertainment in ur 1st comment. U don't need another one here. Just answer the question. 2. Aizen vs bankai toshiro. Base zaraki vs bankai tosen, base zaraki vs bankai kommommura, literally base zaraki vs anyone proven bankai lvl. Do u rlly believe bankai soi fon stands a chance vs even base yammammoto? Clearly, higher evolution, is not evidence. Now for feats. He wrecked ichigo. He did so in his 1st release, meaning by canon info, any espada ranked above ulquiorra would trash ichigo as well. No contradiction. That same ichigo before, was almost even with grimmjow. Where's the contradiction, or do u believe that more screentime=stronger? Because that's clearly wrong in yammammotos case. 3. U say that like making a basic strength tier list hinders aizens plan at all. What issue is there in a basic tier list that would make aizen want to play chess with it? It won't confuse anybody. The gotei will fight whoever pops up and that doesn't change just because aizen switches around a few numbers. Does aizen go into fights with millions of plans like kisuke? No. He uses his own power. What makes u think he unnecessarily messed with something as useless as espada ranks? 4. NOVELS r debunked many times. Databooks haven't been debunked. Novels such as safwy have been debunked because they aren't written by kubo, so we don't know how much input kubo gave the author on the actual story. Databooks, however, r completely written by kubo.
@@Clouds12012 I personally think that he set the ranking system based on his own views of death, but also adjusted shit based on his whims. Of course, I think he also lied to the Espada about how it worked in order to encourage infighting amongst them and prevent any solidarity against him.
Knowing about Stark's personality. He might be doesn't care what his rank at that point, hell he is even fine with no.10 or other number as he just wants comrades. It is just because Aizen assign him as no. 1, because he is unique and have a monstrosity of spiritual pressure.
It could also be said that Aizen assigned the Aspects of Death to the numbers based on the initial Espada's comparative power. I also have a crack theory that Starrk was Yhwach's hollow form (part of it is that Yhwach isn't a normal Quincy by any means); if it were (somehow) true, it'd add more context to Yhwach trying to recruit Aizen, plus it'd go a ways towards explaining why Harribel was kept alive. I know it's unlikely, but imagining a scene in TYBW where Yhwach's sleeping & we see into his dreams, getting a "I'm not alone" reprisal would be chilling imo. Adding to that, if Yhwach could split off bits of his soul like Starrk could, he might be able to resummon fallen Quincy (which, for me at least, solves the problem of how the Sternritter survived for 1,000 years in a kingdom of shadows - namely, that they didn't and he can call forth the heroic dead like Odin and the Einherjar)
Maybe the ranking of the aspects of death is what Kubo believes is the least to most lethal? 1. Loneliness is the most lethal or most common cause of someone’s death. While others are less common or less lethal? It’s a more of reflection on what the writer believes is more significant. Idk. Just a thought!
I'd prefer if the rankings were based on lethality instead of reiatsu. The numbers being tied to the aspect of death they represent is interesting but it means it's next to impossible to change your rank. It would have been cool to see Barragan challenge Starrk for his position as the primera espada. Even if he didn't win, at the very least it would show that the ranks are based on who would (most likely) win in a fight.
According to the novels, Barragan was much stronger in the past. He's one of the oldest and most powerful Espada in history. But after Barragan became King, Barragan actually got weaker and he stopped fighting other Hollows. Barragan's powers faded, and he stopped pursuing the path of power. He got lazy.
@@TheBigExclusive I love the idea of someone telling Barragan that he has gotten fat and lazy, and Barragan doing a Brook joke like, "But I don't even have fat. Yohohoho!"
@@TheBigExclusiveno, according to the novels, ikomikidomoe was weaker when he fought barragon than when he fought yammammoto. Not that barragon was stronger back then
@@GameCyborgCh Honestly, that's what I'm leaning towards. That, or we're taking the idea of all Espada of the same rank sharing the same aspect a bit too far.
I've always thought that a fight between Starrk and Barragan would be a battle of attrition and that the ranks we're always accurate but the doubt was understandable Starrk is easily able to overwhelm Barragan with his sheer number of Ceros and is able to get chip dmg after a wolf dies in an explosion from Respira But at the same time Barragan could out last Starrk with Respira or if he ever got a chance to get close could deal a devastating blow
One could argue that time is all encompassing death/nothingness. But another could argue to feel such loneliness that it feels like death/nothingness already while still living, is death before aged death. Compounded especially since Stark is also presumed to be pretty old and could be immortal. He could be alive for eternity, loneliness making it feel like non existence. whereas someone living it up knowing their time will come may not be dreading their aging, but if their life was lonely the whole time, they may welcome the aging aspect.
It may be a stretch but I would suggest that Loneliness and Time are closely related, as when you are alone you very much notice the time that passes in your isolation and when you are alone you have nothing but time. Hell considering Baraggan had a constant miasma of death around him I would say that makes him a pretty lonely individual too. Conversely Starrk has to send all of his time split up as two people meaning he could in theory be experiencing time twice the amount as others because he is two individuals.
Here's a weird thought I've just had over why the aspect of Solitude had the number one spot. The Espada and their aspects were set up by Aizen, so maybe his own subconcious issues affected his decisions. His sheer level of power separated him from others (in his eyes), so that loneliness may have colored his views...
There's also a sort of play on words for #2: Ji (次) is often used in boy's names (such as Jiro) to denote the second son, although it means more "next". One of the readings for time is also Ji (時), seen in one of the main words for time, Jikan. I don't know if it was intentional, but I do see it.
The new background looks great! In my eyes, Baraggan should be the primera because his power is so ridiculous. Ceros seem to age, so Starrk wouldn't really be able to do anything against Baraggan's abilities. I don't know if I'll ever be able to get behind the espada rankings being intrinsically tied to aspects of death. There are just way too many clues pointing the reader towards them being ranked by strength in the source material for me to believe Kubo ever intended anything else while he was writing it, one of which being Ulquiorra telling Ichigo there are 3 stronger espada when he reveals he's the 4th. If they were truly ranked based on aspect of death, that statement wouldn't mean anything at all, unless they're ranked by aspect (and just so happen to coincidentally also be progressively stronger).
Maybe the ranks are based on the lethality of the aspect. I would say that in almost all anime, despair is probably the most dangerous thing a main character encounters, Ichigo himself nearly dies multiple times because of the despair he feels when things start spiraling.
you know what's interesting is that almost all of the Espada have an Animal Reference (or Plant in Luppi's case) Stark: Wolf, Halibel: Shark, Neliel: Antelope, Ulquiorra: Bat, Nnoitra: Mantis, Grimmjow: Panther, Luppi: Clinging Ivy, Zommari: Sea Urchin, Szayelaporro: Parasitic Worm, Aaroniero: Blob Fish/Octopus, Yammy: Dinosaur? Centipede? Ape?.... But Not Barragan, Barragan's form is 100% referencing Humans and the Grim Reaper
@@help_im_trapped_in_a_square Also that begs the question, if Humans are Animals and there are Naturally born souls in Soul Society that were never human and natural born Hollows in Hueco Mundo that were never human (like Ulquiorra) which can only happen because the world was split into three worlds, then are Hollows and Souls animals too?
I feel like the change to their rank denotes their aspect as being some sort of rework. the entire arc is dealing with Ichigo fighting lower and lower numbers and becoming more and more powerful to fight them. Now saying the rank is their aspect just doesnt make sense. On top of it Barragans seeming rage about his placement makes no sense either. I think the power ranking makes so much more sense. Further if it was ranked on aspect not power why have Yami go from 10 to 0?
I believe the Aspects are set, Aizen simply chooses the strongest of each Aspect. But the numbers shift depending on Reiatsu. So Yammy is Rage, that’s set. But the number goes from 10 to 0 because he gained more Reiatsu than 1 of Loneliness.
@@JinxeBlaqIf that was the case then Barragan wouldn't be complaining about being number 2 if he knew that they were indeed set and that 1 was only for those that represented loneliness. We already know he's aware of how the Espadas are ranked and yet he still also thinks it's based on strength. The only real explanation is that the number represents strength but the aspect of death doesn't rely on numbers and rather it's what each Espada is supposed to represent.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher Barragan is also extremely egotistical and not the most reliable narrator, so he likely was pissed regardless. That, and Aizen likely didn't tell the Espada everything or just lied to them.
I believe each aspect of death is something an espada must learn to accept and integrate into themselves if they hope to ascend the ranks, with each aspect of death building upon the one before it.
I’ve come to the opinion that the rankings were about ranking the aspects in Aizen’s eyes. The worst death for Aizen is loneliness because as a character that is how he sees himself. Powerful beyond measure and destined to be alone because of the disconnect between him and his followers.
Did... I miss something? When did we get the info that the aspects are bound to their numbers? Shawlong clearly stated that all the numbers above 10 were numbered by their creation order, while 10 and down were ranked by strength
@@adaurysantos Oh, so I did miss it... I see, so like Nelliel and Harribel, and Grimjaw and Luppi But technically nothing stops the aspects from going up and down. Noitora doesn't strike me as a Madness type of guy, it doesn't seem like he went from Madness to Despair, it feels like he was always "Despair" because of how inferior he felt compared to Nel. As for Harribel and Luppi, both of them replaced an Arancar from nothing, they didn't have a previous rank, so I'm not really sure how that works, where did those two come from, we have some of Harribel's backstory, but we never see her at any other rank other than 3 I feel like there's some conflict of ideas here, that, or Aizen does what Aizen does and lied about them being ranked in power, which is totally possible, though than Noitora becomes a problem for going from one rank to another.
hey I'm not sure if it lines up but i would look into death rates in japan and if it matches with a turn between natural old age deaths vs suicides as the reason why stark is the Primera Espada. just a guess on my part.
Honestly, thematically I think Loneliness is the ultimate form of Death. We're dealing with practically immortal beings; Time begins to lose real meaning when you stretch into the centuries, millennia, eons, evading Time's clutches. But eventually EVERYTHING ends up alone; perhaps Time claimed most of the other beings you once knew, but at the very end, even as Time catches up to you... it's the Loneliness that lays its final claim to your being
Starrk definitely deserved the top spot. Barragan is a powerful king with a powerful ability....but he's never killed people JUST FROM EXISTING! He has to actively do that with his power. Also, Starrk could probably beat Barragan with his Ceros and wolves. They are parts of his soul and we know based on the cycle of souls that souls don't die unless killed by a Quincy's power. So the Breath of Death couldn't do anything against something that doesn't naturally age and die with time.
I think that the power level argument is definitively solved by Starrk and Barragan's backstory flashbacks. When we first see Starrk and Lilynette they are alone because nobody can physically survive in their presence, with the exception of Aizen, and later the other Arrancar. We see Barragan hanging out with a court full of random hollows, who are not literally disintegrating at his mere presence.
Aizen stated and showed how high reiatsu can negate certain skills or hacks, like he did with Soi Fon's shikai. Same reason why Barragan, despite hating Aizen so much never tried to erase him with Respira, because he most likely knew it would be useless against Aizen's monstruous reiatsu. When Aizen arrived to hueco mundo Barragan was surrounded by his court with no issue, but Stark instead was erasing others by being nearby. To me, Stark has more than enough reiatsu to negate Respira's effect, hence awarding the number 1 rank.
Aizen claimed so, but whether Soifon actually attacked him is more than doubtful. Aizen used Kyoka suigetsu, a moment later he appeared on the other side of the city and where he was standing was Hinamori. Moreover, we have examples of much weaker characters being able to use their abilities effectively against much stronger opponents. Aizen was not immune to Shinji's Sakanade, and after training with Unohana, Kenny was not immune to Mayuri's Ashisogi Jizo poison. Since Barragan saw Kyoka suigestu with his own eyes, I would be more inclined to believe that he simply knew that he would not be able to hit Aizen with the respira, and he would not have a second chance because Aizen would kill him for betraying him. Barragan is also much older than Stark, so he can simply control his reiatsu much better and lowers its level so as not to kill his slaves, after all, can someone without subjects call himself a king?
@@MrGksarathyit definitely is but Stark can't do it. He has far more reiatsu, but think about when we've seen it. Kenpachi does it to Ichigo who doesn't have any control over his reiatsu. Aizen who has reiatsu equal to multiple captains did it to Soi Fon who had no arm, used her bankai twice and was almost out the fight already.
Stark fits as the Primera Espada. I thought it was Barragan for a while when I initially read Bleach, but Stark being the Primera is a good twist and makes sense to me.
It may have to do with aizens character. If we go off the theory that tge espada was a representation of aizen himself, rage is both aizens least open trait, as he feels he's to above everyone to hold enough value in them for anger, but at the same time, his anger for the soul king is his driving force in the series
After watching this video, I think it makes more sense for loneliness to be over time as an aspect of Death as time(rotting and growing old) are a part of death but it's not the only factor but its different when it comes to loneliness as it is the only aspect that true for every death in existence as when you die you experience death alone, its unchangeable and will always happen unlike time and the rest that can be changed or not a part of dying e.g. burning a animal or tree so rotting or age has no influence on its death but what died was still ultimately experiencing that death alone
We also see his power is "absolute" but if that was true, if he had a power that was so 100% even if reiatsu was not as great as Stark. One must ask why he did just use this power to put Aizen away? I know Aizen is the badass he is and so powerful but still I just do not understand why he did not use his power to end Aizen before he got out of hand.
Can someone explain what the hogyoku and Aizen did to Barragan? In the flashback, Barragan is already seen in his resurreccion form when he first meets Aizen. I was always under the impression that the hogyoku power up gives the Espada their resurreccion. If this is the case then Barragan didn't get anything from the hogyoku, unless his resurreccion is actually his base form and the hogyoku gave him the human form. All the other Espada appear to have been more animal/hollow types like Grimmjow and Halibel with their panther and shark forms prior to the hogyoku and then become entirely different beings that look like humans, so I have literally no idea what's going on there.
Not true. The hokyoku simply gives more power, allowing them to cross in soul reaper territory, using powers with a zanpakto. In many cases, that extra power is enough to turn hollows into arrancars, where their masks r torn off. In the cases of natural arrancars like starrk and ulquiorra tho, they just gained more power on top of that. The 1st release is them returning to the form they originally had, but their power is still increased. Not all of them look the same, but they resemble closely enough. Ulquiorras originally form was his 1st release with a mask and no dress. Grimmjow was a panther. Barragons was a reaper.
On the one hand, not only is there "1 is the loneliest number" angle but it also makes sense that time couldn't be 1, because time is a dimension and can only be observed in it's passing. A single moment is a snapshot, which we say is "frozen in time", because time needs multiple moments to exist. As such, time could really be any number _but_ 1, so 2 fits well enough. On the other, I don't really like the recontextualising of the espada rankings to be wholey narrative and symbolic because of just how much talk there is about them that directly refers to them as a marking of power from the moment the numbers are first explained to fake karakura town. Fwiw it makes Luppi make a lot more sense, going from not an espada directly to espada 6, but it's repeatedly mentioned how "i'm only espada 4, there's 3 more stronger than me" or "it's been a long time, the espada 5 of today is as strong as the 3 of back then!" Even Yammy's reintroduction as espada 0 plays into the idea that it's representative of some degree of power (which was part of what made his reveal feel cheap and fake given what we'd previously seen from him). Numbers 11+ were explicitly nothing more than production order so it was never an issue, but 10 and below were first introduced as being a rating of strength and that was reinforced throughout the saga so the idea that they never represented any such thing feels off. The only excuse for it I can slightly believe is that it was always arrancar and their opponents making such claims, the fact we never see Aizen directly comment on it gives room for interpretation that everyone else is being mislead.
If what we know about time is able to affect everyone. Could barragain use that on someone's level of power on 1000 year blood war aizen and yhwach or are they too far above in leagues for the time power to work? Sorry for not explaining better
No your fine though. Legitimate question ⁉️ and to be fair Ywhach and Aizen are legitimately the closest thing's to God's at this point minus Reio (Soul-King) who's both and Ywhach being his biological son Nia+Divinity_Imnortal { family } and Aizen being immortal.
@AJ-kt5zo again not to sound like an idiot who doesn't know bleach but if the time ressurecion is that powerful couldn't barragain have put up a at least a bit of a fight against arancar aizen? I'm just trying to figure out how powerful the ressurecion is if it happened to fall into someone's hands who are godly. If everything else was given to that said user such as as power scaling the difference between baragain and 1000 yr aizen and yhwach would that be an undefeated power or something that can be overcome?
Barragan was the king of Hueco Mundo for 2 reasons: -His aspired to rule above everyone -He had subjects and lackeys. Stark would have been literally unable to have subjects, because the vast majority of hollows just evaporate from his mere presence. And he's not the type to be bossing anyone around either
I believe the aspects of death are not what determine the number. It’s more so that the Espada are the Apex of each aspect of death. Which means that each Espada would never change their aspect, but how strong each spot is among each other changes the number. So if another Arrancar who shares the same aspect of death as a current Espada become stronger than the current Espada they would be the new Espada of that aspect of death. As for whether or not Barragan’s power would work against Stark, I think that his power would not affect Stark at all. As proven by Aizen, being significantly more powerful than your opponent would notify their hax type abilities. Like as seen with Soifon when he canceled out her two sting kill just by his reiatsu being higher. Proof of the primara and number 2’s gap of power difference: Stark is shown already being an Arrancar naturally when Aizen found him, while Barragan was a Vasta Lorde who was turned into an Arrancar. The next 2nd proof: Barragan was considerably damaged by Soifon’s bankai as well as was brought to such a state by just 2 captain level shinigami. Mind you, the two captains were the stealth squad, which isn’t at all known for fighting opponents head on or have their target aware of their presence. The 2nd captain was just really good with defensive kido. Stark fought 4 combat oriented captains with 2 of them using hollow masks. Shinsui was the only one who landed real hits on stark. Shinsui was also strong enough that he was next in line to take over as the head captain of squad 1. All of this is pretty telling about Stark and why he deserves to be the primera.
It really does make me wonder, because of all the information we have now on the Espada, why is one rank higher than another, just in general. I think the one answer which was most promising is raw Spiritual Pressure, as while Barrigan was King, his pressure wasn't strong enough to just kill everyone around him passively like it was for Stark. Yet, this gives another question, why give specific Aspects of Death more Spiritual Pressure? What came first, the Aspects of Death or the first group of Espada? If it was the Aspects of Death, then what was Kubo's reasoning for putting Solitude and Rage above Aging? I can sort of understand Rage, because of war, vengence, and the whole "fight or flight", but Solitude is an interesting one. If it was the first group of Espada, then this should mean that Stark was an Espada before Barrigan, as there was no primera espada before Stark, but there was a Segunda Espada before Barrigan, which could give some credit to the theory of Aizen giving Barrigan the 2 position to humble him. However, it is still undeniable that Stark's Spiritual Pressure is higher, so then it begs the question, why is Solitude stronger Spiritually than Aging? I would be very curious to know Kubo's logic there. Edit: Oh, after MrTommo in the video mentioned that he was the first to hold the position, I had to take a look and Picaro who "had" the Segunda position before Barrigan, I had forgotten that he was in "Spirits are Forever with You" which means we likely do not know if he was canon or not. If he is though, then he used to be Espada 2 before Barrigan. Edit2: Okay, so I did more research Picaro and Cien(the one who used to be the 0 Espada before Yami) have nothing which would contradict that they exist, Kubo has approved of something things in their novel just not said yay or nay for them specifically, and CFYOW also has confirmed things to be canon in the Novel those characters originate in(once again, just not them specifically). As far as I can find there is also nothing which states that Barrigan was the first Segunda Espada, just that he was in that position during the events of the main story. There are also quite a few things that would have Picaro be plausible to exist, which is why I thought he was canon, but I guess he is just unconfirmed. Not that it undermines by ending statement before, nor the validity of my question of whether they were placed there and the Aspect of Death was named, or if the Aspect of Death was named and then they were placed there.
@@fenrirsilver6441 It would be kinda weird for Picaro to be the first Segunda Espada, since Barragan was folded into Aizen's service from the begining, when Las Noches was first built.
I think it is based on lethality, just not by the power scaling we initially thought. If they are locked by aspects of death, then that would imply that they are scaled by how lethal their aspect is to killing the soul. Yes senescence kills and time is absolute, but nothing kills the soul faster than loneliness. (And acting without thinking I.e Rage.)
I wonder what if Barragan was, in fact, "Mortality" of Soul King? This fact should make all events more integral: death of this part of Soul King breaks balance of 3 worlds and allows Quincy to begin invasion...
Where does that leave Ulquiorra since his number disappears when he transforms? Would this mean even with his second release he’d still only be the 4th strongest?
I love hearing all sides, you kill it when it comes to Bleach lore! But honestly Kubo kinda contradicted himself with this stuff… There’s a reason Aizen brought the top 3 Espada, because they were (Aside from Ulquiorra’s second form) the strongest. Each ranking had (for the most part) a wide gap between them (Grimmjow
It's worth noting Aaroniero was said to be the "last of the first generation espada" by Zommari, which would imply none of the others were the original holders of their respective rankings when Aizen first chose his espada. Becoming an espada itself seems to be the goal of any arrancar, and they don't seem bothered by what number they actually are. Personally I always thought Starkk being the Primera was one of the only motivations he had to fight. All he needed was to be in the espada to feel complete, but being number 1 places responsibility on him by Aizen. While I don't buy into espada rankings = power, I think Starkk is stronger. His wolves would probably damage Barragan in the same way Soi Fon's point blank missile did and he can keep is barrage of cero coming for as long as he needs. Both are overwhelming in their power. But who would actually win is another matter because again, Starkk is not the most motivated guy around. He may not even want to win if such a battle occurred. There is definitely some semblance of power involved in the ranks because superiority based on number is brought up in both of Nel's encounters with espada, Nnoitra and Grimmjow respectively. Yammy also puts emphasis on his number and heavily implies being 0 means being the strongest. I just don't think the ranking is the be-all-end-all. For example Szayel is the smartest, how could we say he's any "lesser" than even the primera when his genius can potentially punch dozens of times above its weight? A more nuanced approach is what allows for the 7th to be the fastest, or the 5th to have the hardest hierro.
I honestly really like the idea of the aspects of death being related to the numbers, but if I remember correctly Kubo himself stated that they're ranked based on their strenght. But still, I don't see Yammi beating Starrk or Baraggan. This would make the theory of them being ranked by reiatsu the most probable even though I never liked it that much.
Who should've been the Primera Espada - Baraggan or Starrk? It's a question that looks very different today when compared with when the arc was releasing weekly. How does Starrk fare against Respira? Now we know about the Aspects of Death in relation to Espada ranks, was Baraggan forever doomed to be Number 2? And in this current world, does being Number 2 really even matter? Let me know your thoughts - thanks everyone!
Well the Bleach Novels imply that Barragan was one of the oldest and strongest Hollows in existence. Barragan is older than Starrk, and the novels seem to imply that Barragan was much stronger when he was younger and fighting other Insanely powerful Monster Hollows for the right to rule Hueco Mundo. Then Barragan got weaker when he became King and got lazy. He stopped pursuing the path of power.
Perhaps the #2 ranking is symbolic because it signifies that Barragan has allowed himself to grow weaker due to complacency. Kings often get weaker once they gain the throne and run out of enemies to fight.
If Barragan kept training and fighting other Hollows, then perhaps he would have a "Segunda Etapa" transformation (like Ulquiorra). Kubo did say in an interview that ALL Espada are capable of Segunda Etapa if they train and grow stronger.
I think baraggan daughter is nelliel what you think about this theory
Always remember Aizen said battles are fought by reatsu. barrigan fought Soifon the worst captian, starrk fought Kyorakou and Jushiro along with 2 former captains. Smh reatsu the size of an ocean dismisses that of a pond if barrigans power cant beat CFYOW icimichidomoi it means he has a weaker reatsu and aging is only absolute for weaker or on par beings, you really don't remember he tried aging Aizen, Gin and Tousen. In conclusion the larger the Reatsu the more likely to dismiss the opponents power, ask yourself this do you think Barrigan could age out Yamamoto Bankai slash or Dangai Ichigos Mugetsu, for a matter of fact i know Barrigans couldnt beat Kirio Hikifunes cage that absorbs Reatsu and his attacks are using reatsu. Aizen put him at his correct possition #5 behind him, Gin, Touses, Starrk, should be 6 behind Ullqiora.
@@MrTommo2304 A better question: How can Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu work on Barragan if Barragan has NO EYES ?
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Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't work on Tousen who is blind.
Was Starkk a Soul Reaper?
Still a shame we never got Barragan vs Yamamoto.
That would have been insane
Agreed. He 100 represented death, and i believed he was a far better representation of the Hollows as well. He was Hollow like Yama was Soul Reaper.
It would have been interesting to see Yamamoto's flames vs respira
Yama would smoke him but would be cool to see
@@thewarrior8497Missed out on a lot of cool Yama fights just cause he would one shot slot of characters
Well the Bleach Novels imply that Barragan was one of the oldest and strongest Hollows in existence. Barragan is older than Starrk, and the novels seem to imply that Barragan was much stronger when he was younger and fighting other Insanely powerful Monster Hollows for the right to rule Hueco Mundo. Then Barragan got weaker when he became King and got lazy. He stopped pursuing the path of power.
Perhaps the #2 ranking is symbolic because it signifies that Barragan has allowed himself to grow weaker due to complacency. Kings often get weaker once they gain the throne and run out of enemies to fight.
If Barragan kept training and fighting other Hollows, then perhaps he would have a "Segunda Etapa" transformation (like Ulquiorra). Kubo did say in an interview that ALL Espada are capable of Segunda Etapa if they train and grow stronger. But Barragan did not. He sat on a Throne and did nothing once he was King.
That's brilliant.
Not just becuase he got weaker logically as a king, but because the aspect of death called time decay age, simply got weaker with age.
He's number 2 and like many old men who look at a younger man with envy over his youth.....
Wait.
What if he Starrk is misremembering.
What if Starrk was a part of Barragan?
If you look at Yama definitely rings true he got weaker as as young Yama would have had Orihime heal his arm as he was ruthless
That and Aiken knew it would piss Barragan off to no end
I feel the novels implied that even in the old days, he was hard carried by Respira, at least if Ikomikidomoe's recollection is to be trusted.
Absolutely, even his aspect of death ‘aging’ links to this he’s past his prime due to probably centuries of complacency and never being challenged.
You know, if the aspects are tied to the position, it's telling that Aizen selected Loneliness as the aspect of the strongest Espada.
After all, according to Ichigo at the end of Deicide, Aizen was always alone. Always too strong to be accepted.
It kinda humanizes Aizen to think that he saw something of himself in Stark, and that's the reason he made him Primera.
That and the fact that stark does pack enough power to hurt captain level people effortlessly 😂
Starrk : I'm number one
Ichgio: that my theme song you fool.
About the theme song, with a little bit of change, Ichigo's name spells out "Number One", which I think is interesting.
Aizen deleted the OST from the series with a single finger.
@@COBRO98 No he just hit the pause button located on Ichigo's blade.
incredible what you've done with the backdrop and the space. looking so clean.
Thank you so much!
I always just theorized that Aizen put Barragan as the 2nd just to humiliate him. As a joke.
He mentions it in the video
The aspect of death being locked to one position is pretty stupid, in my opinion. It makes way more sense to just have the aspect of death associated with whatever character it is being given too.
That’s what I assume it is. They just choose the strongest person who represents that aspect. And the numbers shift depending on reiatsu levels. (As we see with Yammy, Rage goes from 10, to 0)
The show is about Shinigami ...
@@1ManNamedDanWhat does that even point out, Shinigami are literal gods of death but they have always had a reaper like association, so not a violent killer but rather the being that will bring you to the afterlife
The Espada literally embody an aspect of death, so the cause of death itself
He's saying the aspect being locked in place means that the order of Espada would be wrong in terms of strength pretty much always, which is dumb
there should be some basis on which the characters strength or capabilities can change their position otherwise why even rank them by number, you could just then rank each group by their aspect and have the strongest of each aspect be the leader, therefore making groups without tying it to a certain number or position
Edit: repeated myself so I fixed it
Yeah it kind of seems like Kubo changed his mind when he realized some of his choices for the Espada didn't make sense. Ironically, changing all of these details only makes things more convoluted
@@megabladechronicles962 I can see your point on that, Stark seems to have the most explosive power ie. He could straight spam massive cero from his guns nonstop with his ridiculous reiatsu
However Baragan seems to have the most potent ability ie. He could literally age anything including kido and other things that can last thousands if not millions of years, and he did that very fast, just imagine an ability so powerful you can be killed from just a single moment touching it and it's very nature is so powerful even the caster can't escape it's clutches
Yammy.... Seems like he was a very disliked character and I believe we didn't really get to see him do anything, if his ability to store reiatsu was as ridiculous as it seemed he should have been able to, at the very least, release an attack of ridiculous power and proportion simply because of his incredible amount of energy
Now it's been a few years since I read the manga, but I remember the Espada was that quite literally there just to trump The Captain Commander, don't remember the number position of this Espada, but it obviously shouldn't have been ranked very high since it was practically useless besides the one time use on Yamamoto
One thing about Starrk that tends to get overlooked is his his soul’s power is so dense that it can literally split into unique instances of life.
The contrast between Barragan’s power and Starrk’s is the contrast between creating death and creating life.
Kind of like kenpachi and yamamoto ngl.
Kenpachi made Yachiru due to so much power even when sealed.
Yamamoto has the ability to burn anything that comes close to him
always impressed by your ability to dig through the piles of old content to find one snipped of relevant context that adds to the point/story. it's like you have every detail of Bleach bookmarked lol
Kubo did Barragan dirty.
He was the king of Hueco Mundo until Aizen showed up and literally said “Actually, you’re not. Join my collection of pawns.”
Then he got beaten by the weakest Captain and a chubby guy with some naruto handseals.
He was only "king" of his little section maybe.
@@vilelucasajin didnt beat Barragan silly
@@vileluca They are not weak. Dont forget Barragan was playing with his food and it allowed them to create strategies and out smarted him by using his own power against him. 👍 Non of those soul reapers were weak. 👍
I like to think aizen did that to make him upset like " you WERE a king now you're just a number two"
It’s crazy to think that when Baraggan was ruling Hueco Mundo, Starrk was just wandering around and wasn’t even challenged or acknowledged by Barragan. I see it as either he just actually didn’t know about Starrk or he was kinda “scared” to approach him due to the fear of losing his throne
Probably didn't know. It's an enormous place.
Kenpacho wasn't sensed even when he was so close to Unohanna
I still believe the rankings are ranked on lethality. Aizen simply chooses the strongest of each aspect, so those are set. But the numbers aren’t, so they shift depending on the strength of the person representing the aspect. Much like Yammy, the aspect of rage started at 10, then shifted to 0.
a huge problem that exists with trying to scale them in terms of power with each other is the vast difference in their opponent
take espada 4 and forget his second transformation even his normal transformation that all the others had he was able to move so fast Ichigo couldn't even see his movements Analyst completely and utterly outclassed
now again forget the second transformation so we would assume that Espada rank one that his transformation should be superior By quite a bit to Espada 4 first transformation
but because Stark is fighting someone who is much stronger than each ago starker doesn't seem to be that much better than rank 4 because the speed and the way we the audience perceives speed scales to how strong somebody is
so we the audience have no way to know how fast is stark compared To Espada Rank 4
We got a glimpse of his incredible speed when He was able to In base form Move in and out of Ichigo's range of detection without him being able to do anything about it
I always thought Kubo was setting up a confrontation between Baraggan and Yama. Even if the first got completely dominated, he should've decimated everyone, forcing the head captain's intervention like what happened with Ayon
According to interviews, Kubo was suffering from health problems during the Espada and Kara Kura town Invasion arc. He was also having big disagreements with Shounen Jump Editors. Shounen Jump refused to give Kubo a break to have surgery for his health, and wanted Kubo to keep working and stretch out the Espada story even more. It would not surprise me if Kubo had plans for Barragan VS Yama, but abandoned them due to health reasons or resentment against SJ staff.
Even if the outcome would have ended in an overwhelming defeat for Barragan that still would have been more interesting than what we got with Soifon prior to Hachi arriving. She had no business fighting someone who was such a terrible matchup against her.
Yamamoto had more hype than Aizen, whom had more hype than Barragan. Yamamoto vs Barragan was never gonna work out. If Yamamoto were to be put against Barragan then he might as well fight and solo the rest of the Arrancars in Fake Karakura Town. Kubo had him stay busy setting up Ennetsu Jigoku and interrupting the process once to aid a crisis(Ayon).
@@raymondyongho5757To be fair, almost everyone's a terrible match up against Barragan
@@raymondyongho5757 it would be more interesting if barragan work with ichigo fight aizen because he hates aizen and wants go back hueco mundo and just chill lmfao
I kinda like the explanation that Tekking101 suggested, that being that Aizen assigned the rankings like that as just another little way of saying "fuck you" to Barragan, even after humiliating him at his throne.
Like in terms of ability and power, of course Barragan beats Starrk, but Aizen just really wanted to keep driving that dagger in deeper that HE was in charge, and Barragan just had to roll over and accept it.
Honestly, apart from respira. I think stark takes the cake
Nahh, Stark was the perfect Counter to Barragan. We saw Barragan could take damage from a full scale bomb, before his respira destroyed it.
The wolves would blitz and bite down and nuke indefinitely, Stark wouldn't even have to use his own hands. Just the fact that the system is a reishi based system, he has more reishi than Barragan and would have the reserves and fire power to deal with him.
The writing around Stark was just.. really bad. He shouldve been something like an Anti-Soul King, for the Hollows. He should've been the new King of Hueco Mundo, as a good guy, forever evolving into something stronger and always being relevant and rivaling the bad guys. A king Stark versus King YWACH fight would've been EPIC. And maybe because Stark is a Hollow he gets very very close to killing YWACH, but fails at the final step. Maybe an Arc where he trains Grimmjow on how to also split his soul and evolve and ruling as a sort of benevolent king, would've been fantastic. Stark had so much potential, but Kubo was starting to feel the pressure of the extended arc weighing everything down.
That's putting a bit too much weight on Stark's character. Sure, he's the Primera, but he is also a slacker who doesn't put much effort in unless absolutely necessary. Also, I would say his power at best would make him the Hollows' answer to Zaraki.
You're comparing the wolves to a literal nuke, that he still withstood from point blank range. The only reason he even got hit was because he couldn't move, something that Starkk wouldn't be able to replicate. Let's be real here. He'd age away all of the wolves before they'd get to him, and they're not infinite; they're parts of him.
@@Dexx1syou could say they'd last long enough but I agree. A gran ray cero would be far better anyway. They're insanely strong.
Also stark can't negate respira. Aizen, who was basically Yamamoto levels of reiatsu, only could negate one of the weakest captains when she lost an arm, had no energy from her bankai and more.
@@Dexx1s Yes thank you!
I always felt it was an odd choice for Kubo to pick Soi Fon of all Captains to go up against Barragan. There were much better choices to go up against the King of Hueco Mundo.
It wasn't just her though, it was hachi too. Ngl hachi was the mvp of that fight. Soi fon didn't do much aside from her bankai. Hachi actually got the kill off. Ooouhhhh boyyyy that girl soi fon pisses me tf off, her snotty attitude is irritating.
It would have been nice to see Chojiro against him
How do you kill a king? with an assassin
@@help_im_trapped_in_a_square or poison, or execution through a coup
@@ironclad-m3q you could say the purple stuff he used is like a poison since it dissolves, like poison does to cells and nerves
To me an Espada has to fit an aspect of death but the order is rearranged by lethality. The ranking being affected only by the aspect of death is ridiculous imo
That's probably how I see it as well. Nnoitora being despair at number 8 eventually grows strong enough to be Espada number 5 which is then becomes the number that represents despair.
I always liked that Barragan's position as number two can be noticed by his crown being chained as if he was afraid it would go away.
You're missing the key point - Espada 1 is Loneliness because 1 is the loneliest number.
He literally says this in the video
The numbers were given by aizen, it may be that he fears being alone more than the passage of time and natural death. Remember that ichigo felt loneliness from him during their fight, and, to be honest, he truly had no equal during his whole life.
Let's just all agree that the numbers mean nothing in terms of power. Aizen was trolling the Espada when we assigned them.
@@Dragonpuncher123 IT means EVERYTHING with power.
Kubo himself stated several times that there is no Espada stronger than Yammy. Other than the previous number 0, Cien. After him, Starrk was described as "the most deserving of the number Primera Espada title".
The bottom line for me about this whole espada number debate is that kubo completely dropped the ball and made it even worse with his "revelations" on his blog. The parts of the story where he improvised on an open plot point and the parts where he had a goal in mind are very VERY clear and easy to spot.
The whole zero espada stuff, not giving focus on other espada members that were fan favorites, not giving some of them back stories or more info, all these things are just bad aspects of the story and we have to make our peace with it. There's little to no point in arguing until we collectively believe there was no poor writing in some parts.
@@fangsilver1977 But now the numbers are also each an aspect of death and Espada are assigned based on which aspect they fit in with. Which is, why Luppi just took over 6th from Grimmjaw even though he obviously was weaker. That is also from Kubo.
So for me the numbers are useless now and they were always dumb. Yammy might potentially have the most reiatsu, but in an actual fight he wouldn't have a chance against Respira, Cero Metallica or Ulquiorra spamming Lanza del rampago. He is painfully slow and huge target. Some times we gotta use what the manga gives us to make our decisions.
@@gstvntt Yeah, if we accept that the numbers don't actually signify strength and see it as a way to just troll both opponents and each other it becomes much better.
Yes to the 1st question
And by the way sick thumbnail 😳
Oooh awesome upload. I always thought Starrk deserved his number 1 rank and would beat Barragan handily even if Starrk cant negate respira with his spirtual pressure. He can shoot a thousand cero in an instant which would overwhelm Barragan
Agreed! While I don't think Starrk has quite enough reiatsu to just straight up negate Barragan's Respira, I think Starrk could fire a cero dense enough to where it would reach Barragan before it got rotted out of existence. I think SAFWY actually has a line stating something to that effect. And if Starrk can land a few hits, I think he could definitely win.
@@thewarrior8497 Barragan's "respira" was powerful and quick enough to withstand a point-blank Jakuhō Raikōben and tear through Vaizard-level kidō barriers.
There's no chance in hell (lol 😁) that he would be overwhelmed by even a Cero Metralleta.
Yh no chance, I believe Barragan wins that fight. I just don’t see Stark being able to get close or hit him.
@@Myakothe barriers were fewer than the Ceros. Not only that but the soi fon bankai is just 1 huge bomb not multiple. Also soi fon was at a huge disadvantage from the jump
@@Myako that cero Metratella almost made SHUNSUI use his bankai. Hes way stronger then soifon and Hachi were
Kubo's explanation in Klub outside is just him getting his wires crossed on how he approaches writing the Espada versus in universe explanations. In his head, when he creates the Espada or the extra Espada characters(Example Nel, Luppi), he wants a overarching theme, make them feel like a set and not 10 random fighters. That's not to say they are a team or anything.
But the in-universe explanation is different than the creative process. It's just that Kubo(or us) isn't enforcing that separation when he answered the question. He answered the question as the writer, not in his author of Bleach mode. But we took the message (rightly) as readers, viewers, fans, and not as writers ourselves.
And I only say that because given what we know about how the Espada works, what Kubo said doesn't make sense from an in-universe perspective. It would only make sense from a creative perspective, theming's, good writing decisions, irony etc. Like the 2 3rd Espada's Nel and Haribel both being women and both being betrayed by trusted allies, seems like a theme, or something Nel and Haribel could bond over or relate to if Kubo ever let them interact. Or Grimmjow and Luppi clashing since they both embody destruction, or the calm Ulquiorra butting heads with Grimmjow, thinking his destruction is stronger than Ulquiorra's emptiness, etc.
I mean what Kubo said doesn't add anything to the story. It's not a little detail that fills in a blank, or is a little lore nugget. It just straight up contradicts what is in the source material or even the databooks, which Kubo probably barely remembers at this point if at all.
Ultimately it came down to Kubo wanting to put twists in for surprises that Stark was the Primera. Everyone up to the reveal would draw parallels between Yamamoto and Barragan(there's even a panel in the manga directly of the two exchanging looks while in command of their respective sides), just as parallels were drawn between other Espada and Captains with Stark virtually being a doppelganger of Shunsui's laid back personality and appearance. Kubo did the same thing with Yammy, because he'd not planned that from the start.
Yammy had a lot of foreshadowing to his true rank and I believe he was planned from the start. Ulquiorra, when saying yammy would have no way to fight kisuke and yoruichi, stated, "at ur current lvl", implying yammy has ways to rise exponentially stronger. In hueco mundo, the gang were encountering espadas starting from the weakest up, 1 by 1, yet yammy was nowhere to be found despite tge gang already fighting noitorra.
@@Blackmustache870 not really, because we have several aspects of conversations that reveal Yammy wasn't planned or hinted at.
1: Ulquiorra flat out states in terms of power he's number 4(back when that's what the Espada Ranks were based on) which doesn't make sense if there are four Espada above him(he'd then be fifth)
2: Similarly, before the twist with Yammy's 0 reveal, the Espada were specifically referred to as 10 individuals numbered 1-10(including by other members of the Espada)
3: Aizen's group against Karukura town is presented as the most powerful, which makes little sense with Yammy's reveal that he was left behind.
4: Aizen meets privately with Halibel, Barragan and Stark on the details of the upcoming invasion, but does not include Yammy or any of the lower ranking Espada.
5: Yammy had already been encountered and humiliated at the introduction of the Espada, he's then humiliated again by Uryu(dropped through the floor) and is sidelined by the more powerful Espada throughout the Hueco Mundo arc until his twist reveal as 0.
@grandadmiralzaarin4962
1. Ulquiorra was playing on ichigos knowledge of the espadas. From ichigos pov, there's only espadas 1-10. That or Ulquiorra was serious and he considers himself stronger than hallibel due to his 2nd release. Either way, there's many ways u can take this statement that's still doesn't contradict yammys og rank.
2. How much knowledge do u believe a fraccione would know about the espadas as a whole? Sure, they know the most basic things, but do u rlly believe they inside knowledge on everything? A real espadas word>>>a fracciones word. Not retconned. It's like saying ichigo thinking Ulquiorra was 1 and then he turned out to be 4, thinking that's a retcon.
3. Aizens group was never stated to be the most powerful. That's what we were lead to believe, but that's the point of a 0 espada TWIST.
4. Similarly to why zaraki can't be head captain despite hus strength, yammy simply isn't trustworthy in a war setting. Imagine his lack of rieatsu sensing makes him jump straight at yammammoto on sight to get one shotted. He's useless for the directive of an actual goal, but he's still the most powerful in a fight.
5. Duh, that was base yammy, not released yammy. The only espada that sidelined him was ulquiorra but that's only because yammy was still in base AGAIN.
None of what u said refutes the fact that ulquiorra foreshadowed yammys 0 rank earlier than all ur claims.
@@Blackmustache870
1: No, we never have an instance of Ulquiorra lying to Ichigo about either his power or position. You can try and do the mental gymnastics to make it work, but the answer is simply that Kubo hadn't thought of 0 Espada level yet. Like nearly all Shonen, Bleach evolved constantly as it was told as the story changed.
2: Quite a lot of knowledge, Fraccione are basically the Lts/seated members of their respective Espada. That would be like thinking the Lts and seated members of the Gotei 13 didn't know how the Captain rank worked within their structure.
3: Aizen's group were stated to be the most powerful twice, both when Ulquiorra mentions Aizen left for Karakura town and later how each of those Espada spoke to their opponents on their positions/powers.
4: You'll note that Zaraki is still expected to show up to meetings and is present for most of the critical plans where he's given his assignments specifically due to his power.
5: No, again, Yammy as 0 wasn't a thing yet in Kubo's mind. Yammy and Ulquiorra's introduction was a direct reference/tribute to Nappa and Vegeta's arrival on Earth down to their entire dynamic. Kubo was a huge fan of Akira Toriyama and there are references and tributes to Toriyama's work throughout Bleach as Bleach was HEAVILY influenced by DB and DBZ.
On the contrary, I've categorically shown evidence and points to support my position. You're incorrect in your opinion, but you're entitled to it, wrong or not.
@grandadmiralzaarin4962
1. "No instance". "Oh wow, he was in one arc, obv his personality of never stated lying cleraly means he's not capable of it!!" Tf kind of logic is that??
2. Unlike the gotei, who r more lighthearted, the espadas r filled with several members that fracciones of OTHER members would be wary interacting with, noitorra, grimmjow, barragon, sayelzlaporro. So obv, it's not that easy for fracciones to get info like lieutenants. Dordoni Siad espadas get special privileges, so it's not hard to believe that deeper meanings of espadas may be hidden.
3. Ulquiorra never said they were the most powerful. He said karakura town is finished because of aizen and the espadas. The conversation of their ranks was only making their numbers, not saying either we're the strongest. Also, isn't the meaning of a plot TWIST to lead the audience in a completely different pov than they originally thought?? All ur "claims" have just been telling me that u believed yammy wasn't 0 because of what was shown but that's the point of a plot twist.
4. Except aizen deliberately only brought the espadas he planned on bringing into the meeting. What's the point of bringing any espada that wasn't part of the plan?? Again, yammys tge strongest, but he's obviously useless in a war setting. Or r u saying you'd trust zaraki in ANY position of political power?? Also, the meeting was shown AFTER yammys rank as 0 was already revealed, so ur claim is LITERALLY debunked because of that.
5. I'm pretty sure vegeta never told nappa, "at ur CURRENT lvl", he would stand no chance vs goku. He just said he stoo weak for goku. Inspiration doesn't disregard specific dialogue. People like u r the reason series like jjk, black clover, and mha, r considered COPIES instead of Inspiration from popular shounen. U look at what's similar and assume that's the whole thing.
I never come across people that r more certain of their "opinion" than people that try to argue against yammy. Most people don't stop in the middle of a debate to exclaim who's right. They keep debating. U clearly know ur in the wrong here.
Your bleach videos are awesome
Bleach is a series full of symbolism and artistic language so I always figured that Loneliness (or Solitude or whatever Starrk is) should be ahead of Time because while Barragan may represent the inevitability of death and its ever-encroaching nature, Starrk is Loneliness and represents the actual act of Death itself. The journey from this life to the next is one that you can only walk yourself, no matter how many people you had in your life. When your final moments pass, the next steps are something that must be faced alone
I don't buy the the ranks are linked to the aspects. I think that when Kubo explained that Hallibel and Nel both embody sacrifice and Grimmjow and Lupi both embody destruction, he more meant that there are always 10 aspects of death, and the espada are the 10 strongest espada of each aspect.
That’s what I believe too. I think Tommo might’ve simply got the wrong idea.
@@JinxeBlaq Tommo isn't the source of this information. A person asked a question about if the Espada with the same number have the same aspect of death or not specifically regarding Nel's aspect, and Kubo responded with something that translates to "Its the same. Nels aspect is Sacrifice". People were confused, so in a Tweet, the "daily bleach scans" said it was tied to the number. Tommo went over this in a video 8 months ago titled "Kubo Reveals NEW DETAILS on ESPADA NUMBERS, Komamura's History, Zanpakuto + More! | Klub Outside Q&A"
So it could possibly be a translation issue, but multiple people seem to be saying its not and its been over half a year since then.
The translation of the Klub Outside answer seems pretty clear that the aspect is tied to the rank.
@@JinxeBlaq Nope, Kubo is just cooking. Klub outside is like J. K. Rowling on twitter dropping bomb no one wants to hear
@@MrGksarathy but that conflicts with everything that’s been said about the espada rankings in the story
I always thought of it this way. Fear of dying alone (Stark) is far greater than fear of dying of old age (Barragan) among humans.
For me, i always viewed aspects 3-10 as a spark of what leads to a persons demise and eventual transformation into a Hollow. Time holds the second place, because it is what nurtures the other aspects. For example a moment of despair or sacrifice may be painful, but the ever marching sands of time that bring more and more of the despair, more sacrifices, THAT is was leads a soul to the void of Hueco Mundo.
So then why is loneliness at the top? Because it is the fate of Hollows beyond their death. To wander alone never to love or trust another again. Thats why i think the Espada are so beautiful is they break free of the curse of what it means to be a Hollow in their deaths! (Well some do)
Also i love my head cannon of Gin asking Aizen how he came up with the list and Aizen just smiling and saying "Why, it is how you make the perfect Hollow" and then performing some truly horrifying expirements on Hollows, cause Aizen lol
My theory is aizen made stark prime espada to humble barragan, and to remind him that there is always someone stronger.
What I hate is starrk shot shunsui with a cero and he said it tickles but a normal guy with a Glock 9 can blow his eye out 🤦🏽
To be fair, it wasn't a standard pistol, he just formed his energy into his own version, similar to Lille Barro's sniper diagramm. The energy shot out would be significantly faster and more lethal than a bullet.
The eye is more vulnerable than the rest of the body, and that applies to bleach characters as well, shown through noitorra and zaraki
I've never been a fan of the "aspect is the rank" twist Kubo threw at us. That said, Loneliness being #1 makes me assume Aizen made the ranks based on his own beliefs and thoughts, as we know Ichigo felt Aizen's "loneliness" when they fought. Loneliness being the one aspect he could not overcome. I guess rage being #0 could relate to the reveal of how pissed he gets when he's getting sealed away by Urahara.
On the battle side, I just can't imagine Starrk loses to Barragan. Respira is of course horrendously broken, but the characters we see it effect are not exactly top tier legends, and outside of it Barragan has almost nothing of note. In every other measure Starrk is demonstrably ahead, and I think the reveal that Reiatsu can flat out negate abilities kinda seals the deal for me.
The biggest reason for Starrk's lackluster showing is that he didn't have the ruthless mindset. Aizen may have seen a sliver of himself via the loneliness in Starrk, but that was where their similarities ended. A serious, ruthless, or non-ambushed Starrk probably ends up having to be taken out by Kyoraku's bankai for the story to resolve the same way.
Loneliness can kill some ones soul beyond repair way before the final breath is drawn.
I like the concept of death thing, but honestly locking the concept to the number not the character does not make a lot of sense.
Ulquiorra mentions that espadas from 4 to 1 are not allowed to release their zampakutos inside las noches, which it makes little sense if you think the numbers represent the aspects but makes a lot of sense if you think that the numbers represent lethality.
I don’t like saying this kind of stuff, but to me tying the concepts of death with the numbers was an afterthought on kubo’s part, maybe because the 3 top espadas did not live up to to a lot of peoples’s expectations, maybe because he did not like the initial concept. My opinion won’t change what Kubo said and what is cannon, but in my book the numbers will always mean lethality or reatsu level, with the concepts being tied with the character rather than the position.
Correction, it's 4 and up, not 4 to 1. Yammy releasing near Las noches is just a plot hole.
Kubo never said it's one or the other. Kubo just said aspects of death r involved in the ranks, which still brings up a lot if contradicting elements.
Loving the new set up
Baraggan may be powerful, but Stark is the rightful Primera Espada. Stark's overwhelming spiritual pressure, his ability to split his soul into wolves, and his mastery over loneliness make him a perfect embodiment of the top spot. Baraggan's arrogance and obsession with his past glory are his downfall...he represents the old order, while Stark is calm, composed, and effortlessly strong. The Espada rankings aren't just about raw power; they're thematically driven, and Stark's character fits the idea of the Primera far better than Baraggan. Stark's isolation and control truly make him the most deserving of the title!
thank you!
Man quit glazing
@@bobolh206 quit hating
@@soul8648 u cant even argue lol ur guy got 1 tapped by shunsui hes a fruad if u ask me
@@bobolh206 how is he a fruad? The guy legit killed Stark at the end fighting him one on one
The idea of the ranks being locked to the aspects feels like it conflicts with what we're given throughout the story, like Noitra straight saying he's a whole rank stronger than Grimjow, Grimjows actions to remove Ulquorra from the board in order to fight Ichigo, Barragan taking charge in a manner the implies he should be deferring to another, and others I can't think of. All of those could be explained away for different reasons, I know, but in the context of the story and the consistency of how they're used, it feels as though it was initially designed to be a strength ranking.
To be fair, Kubo frequently feeds us info through unreliable narrators, and all the ones who talk about the rankings are Espada, and Aizen could very easily have lied to them about the system and how it works. Aizen conspicuously had little to say about the ranking system.
The way I see it, the aspects of death are more meta than just a basic “in world” explanation the correlation between the ranking of the espada and the aspects of death is found in which Kubo feels to be the worst feeling of them all. Given the way he lives his life now (secluded playing animal crossing) I feel it’s safe to assume that at the time he was writing Bleach that he felt a deep loneliness from within. This is further backed up by the way he depicts Aizen in deicide which would make Stark the primera however the more pronounced and universally accepted worst feeling is that of aging hence why Barragan took charge and was the “king” of hueco mundo. This also explains why Yami would be the 10th and 0 espada as Kubo doesn’t see himself as a violent man but acknowledges that outward rage is the most dangerous of them all as harm towards other is the ultimate evil.
What if the Espada rankings were less general aspects of deaths and more reflections of Aizen himself and that’s the purpose behind their rankings? This might be a little bit of a reach but I kinda feel like the countdown of the Espada’s aspects coincides with Aizen’s life experience. His Greed and Madness led him to begin his experimentation, his Intoxication towards the Hogyoku, his Destruction of the barrier between Soul Reaper and Hollow (and desire to destroy the Soul King), in Desperation he made more drastic moves from the shadows (the betrayal during the Soul Society invasion, the Espada, kidnapping Orihime, etc), his Emptiness towards anyone friend or foe, his willingness to Sacrifice anyone he needed to, once too much Time had passed his impatience kicked in, and after Gin betrayed him he was finally completely Alone, only to eventually lose to Ichigo and Kisuke and the Rage he showed at that moment. It’s kind of a reach but I felt the aspects parallel his journey better than completely representing the characters they’re tied to. Sorry for the long comment and if you or anyone else had thought of this too. Great video and love the channel!
I fully believe this, especially since Aizen was the one assigning the ranks and tying the aspects to them. Of course they would both reflect his own worldview and priorities. It's probably why the rankings are so inconsistent as well. Dude probably changes his mind a lot, has probably lied to his followers about what the ranks even mean, and he barely takes it seriously.
I'll be honest, I think Kubo shot himself in the foot with the new ranking metric.
While I don't know how much of the "aspects of death being locked to certain ranks" was planned ahead of time and how much of it is just retconning that we now have to deal with (I honestly suspect not much of it was planned, but admittedly that's pure speculation) I still think it's poetic in a way that Aizen chose Loneliness as the aspect for rank 1, especially considering what Ichigo says about Aizen when he defeats him. Aizen is a profoundly lonely character. He has barely any equal in power in terms of both strength and intellect, and the only people who come close or surpass him in either have very different ideals than he does. He truly is standing alone in his beliefs and abilities. A possible explanation could be that, to an individual like Aizen, dying of old age after a long life is one thing, but suffering that infernal loneliness that Starrk embodies is almost a fate worse than death.
not sure if you guys knew this, but all the Espada that fought in the Fake Kurakura arc were weakened as it was Uryu or Chad explained that powers were stronger in Hueco Mundo, and still were a threat to the captains and also killed like 4 of them
At first I thought it was dumb, but it makes sense that the first espada would represent loneliness since we know that Aizen himself felt immense loneliness because he was so powerful. Maybe the first espada is supposed to represent a level of power that no other hollow can feel
I couldn't see your whole comment on the app and I thought it was going to end as "represents loneliness since we know that... (one is the loneliest number) " That's where my mind went, but I like your take on it, and it makes sense thematically
this really does feel like a retcon. WebCamParrot made a video analysis of Nnoitora quite a while ago. and his conclusion was that he truly always embodied Despair, his aspect of death. even as the 8th.
and there was a, i believe in a video game i forget which one, but it was "revealed" that Nel's aspect of death was in fact Lamentation. which i think fits her a lot better than Sacrifice, considering she's always crying. although she doesn't seem to Lament what had happened to her specifically, she does Lament what happened to her two loyal Fraccìon Pesche and Dondochakka (who also Laments quite frequently).
it also didn't seem like Luppi embodied Destruction quite like Grimmjow. more so Arrogance. although Grimmjow also embodied Arrogance to a high degree. perhaps the 6th ranking "secretly" has a double aspect?
For me Club outside and CFYOW are not canon
The aspects of death interested me until kubo implied there were only 10 possible aspects of death. It just seems lazy, but cfyow claiming that luppi resembling destruction implies kubos had this in mind for a while, so idk what to make of it. Barragon states the aspects of death r their entire being. It just doesn't make sense it can be linked with ranks which can change
@@DuBstep115 for me, Club Outside is. since those are just direct Q&A with author Tite Kubo. although, it depends on how jovial he's being.
but yeah. i take the light novels with a pinch of salt. since they're different authors and there's a lot of weirdness going on there. and even some contradictory things. i mean one such example: in canon there are only 4 Noble Houses. but in the light novels, there are apparently 5?
@@Blackmustache870 yeah i mean, Luppi sort of does. but Halibel's powers are in no way linked to her aspect of death, unlike say: Yammy, Grimmjow, Baraggan, etc. her powers are water based, but her Aspect of Death is Sacrifice? completely disconnected.
@@strider_hiryu850 The Shiba are a fallen noble house, even if they are of the 5 Great Families. So yes, there are only officially 4 Great Houses.
You just have poor reading comprehension skills.
I feel like Aizen put all the arrancar ranks in his own order because not only he knew they would play game of thrones with eachother, but mainly because he was playing off of their strengths.
Barragan: OP king of Hueco Mundo. Nobody will see his power coming and to spite the king.
Ulquiorra: The hidden actual strongest. No ego and no need to rank high cuz Ulq doesn't care of rank cuz he knows hes strongest inside
Yami: strong but needs his ego for growth in strength.
Starrk: doesnt want number 1 so the irony spites him yet it also is motivation cuz Starrk wouldve quit if he was low enough rank to not make a huge difference.
Noitra: desperate to be number 1 that he will eeearn and train his way up the ranks.
Haribell: Forced to join kinda so her rank never mattered to Aizen.
Grimmjow: his whole life he was always an underdog so his lower ranking makes him purposely continue his grind cuz thats when hes in his prime.
Nel: Unpredictable that her mask broke and the whole kid thing. The only thing Aizen couldnt have expected. Plus she went on to help Ichigo with directions while teaching him how the world works. Shes our story deux ex machina to move the story forward.
He chose their ranks very strategicly and sat back seeing how it effectts them while also seeing it all work out as planned.
How does the rank effect the way he moves his plan?
Question for u, do u believe any espada is ranked incorrectly aside from barragon and ulquiorra? Because I always hear this argument when people want to claim ulquiorra is the strongest, but they never use this argument to consider that their claim brings up the possibility that espadas like sayelzlaporro zommari or aarienero can be stronger than grimmjow, or even starrk. Why? Because feats prove otherwise. Both feats and statements prove espadas were ranked correctly even if their showings weren't that flashy. The only outlier is ulquiorras second release which is implied to be outside the rankings, but yammy is confirmed stronger than r2 ulquiorra in the databooks.
@@Blackmustache870
Loaded question but i will take it cuz i love Bleach enough to have full convos about it lol ok so im going to answer in the same order of questions and things said...
I wasnt saying their order effects how he moves his plan, im saying how he chose their ranks.
The ranks are not a tier list in any way like most basic people simplify it like a fighting game tier list lol. The rankings make sense from a character like Aizen. Some characters have shown obvious signs of wanting to be number 1, they get stronger to get that title wich wouldnt happen if they are higher on the list cuz they would grow arrogant. Interactions and personality are important factors too because some characters need a lower or higher rank placement to perform their best or try to earn better ranks. Aizen is the perfect character to know how to manipulate things and strategicly rank them with TONS of factors in his mind, instead of a basic strength scale tier list. The things i put next to the names is Aizen's reasons (minus Ulquiorra and Nel). Ulquiorra is the strongest cuz he has the next evolutionary form noone else is strong enough to unlock. Kinda like he has bankai and everyone else just has shikai only, or in DBZ terms he has SS3 and everyone else has SS1. Either way Ulquiorra can be measured by both feats and by default having a second form in the first place.
As far as Grimmjow, he earned his way to become how strong he is by always grinding so hes always getting stronger. Who knows how much stronger hes gotten since his initial ranking and how that scales to him being stronger than higher ranks. Sza doesnt seem interested in how high or low his rank is, therefore Aizen can place others strategicly where he knows they thrive using his personal factors that hes obviously not going to explain to anyone. Also, Before anyone pushes up their glasses and gets overly technical (like a game theory episode), you again have to consider that this is Aizen we are talking about. His ranks make sense to me due to how he plays the Espada/Arrancar like chess pieces.
Lastly the databooks have been debunked many times, even by Kubo himself. Im not sure he had a team to remind him of every single variable he might not have remembered. He does admit it in his Q&A KlubKubo alot.
@Clouds12012 "...while also seeing it work our as planned." U said this in ur last sentence as if the espada rankings for some reason matter to his plan.
1. Aizen in fkt upon taking hallibel out states he believed in the espadas strength, but they disappointed him, so while he still viewed them as pawns, he took their ranks seriously, at least in correlation with each other. How is it "basic" people and how is it simplified? The ranks being based on battle power was stated by shawlong directly and entertained by several captains and espadas that brought it up. Again, reaffirmed in the databooks. There's in fact NO source in bleach that contradicts the rankings. Calling this basic is like people who believe ulquiorra is strongest just because 4 represents death in Japan, calls others who prefer to stick to the story, basic. Ur "idea" has nothing to back it up, so until it can be backed up with anything, pls refrain from calling others basic just because they go with the actual story.
2. U didn't answer my question. Do YOU actually believe any of the supposed lower tier espadas r secretly stronger than grimmjow or even starrk, or is ur idea mainly centering around barragon and ulquiorra just so u can claim they're the strongest? U explained ur idea for the explanation of symbolism about where each espada would "ironically" be numbered as for aizens own entertainment in ur 1st comment. U don't need another one here. Just answer the question.
2. Aizen vs bankai toshiro. Base zaraki vs bankai tosen, base zaraki vs bankai kommommura, literally base zaraki vs anyone proven bankai lvl. Do u rlly believe bankai soi fon stands a chance vs even base yammammoto? Clearly, higher evolution, is not evidence. Now for feats. He wrecked ichigo. He did so in his 1st release, meaning by canon info, any espada ranked above ulquiorra would trash ichigo as well. No contradiction. That same ichigo before, was almost even with grimmjow. Where's the contradiction, or do u believe that more screentime=stronger? Because that's clearly wrong in yammammotos case.
3. U say that like making a basic strength tier list hinders aizens plan at all. What issue is there in a basic tier list that would make aizen want to play chess with it? It won't confuse anybody. The gotei will fight whoever pops up and that doesn't change just because aizen switches around a few numbers. Does aizen go into fights with millions of plans like kisuke? No. He uses his own power. What makes u think he unnecessarily messed with something as useless as espada ranks?
4. NOVELS r debunked many times. Databooks haven't been debunked. Novels such as safwy have been debunked because they aren't written by kubo, so we don't know how much input kubo gave the author on the actual story. Databooks, however, r completely written by kubo.
@@Clouds12012 I personally think that he set the ranking system based on his own views of death, but also adjusted shit based on his whims. Of course, I think he also lied to the Espada about how it worked in order to encourage infighting amongst them and prevent any solidarity against him.
The ranking was developed by Aizen. Given what we know about him. It seems more logical he told each Espada something different to manipulate them.
Knowing about Stark's personality. He might be doesn't care what his rank at that point, hell he is even fine with no.10 or other number as he just wants comrades. It is just because Aizen assign him as no. 1, because he is unique and have a monstrosity of spiritual pressure.
It could also be said that Aizen assigned the Aspects of Death to the numbers based on the initial Espada's comparative power.
I also have a crack theory that Starrk was Yhwach's hollow form (part of it is that Yhwach isn't a normal Quincy by any means); if it were (somehow) true, it'd add more context to Yhwach trying to recruit Aizen, plus it'd go a ways towards explaining why Harribel was kept alive.
I know it's unlikely, but imagining a scene in TYBW where Yhwach's sleeping & we see into his dreams, getting a "I'm not alone" reprisal would be chilling imo. Adding to that, if Yhwach could split off bits of his soul like Starrk could, he might be able to resummon fallen Quincy (which, for me at least, solves the problem of how the Sternritter survived for 1,000 years in a kingdom of shadows - namely, that they didn't and he can call forth the heroic dead like Odin and the Einherjar)
I find it so funny that whenever Yammy comes up in these discussions it's only long enough to kinda laugh at and then dismiss him.
Maybe the ranking of the aspects of death is what Kubo believes is the least to most lethal? 1. Loneliness is the most lethal or most common cause of someone’s death. While others are less common or less lethal? It’s a more of reflection on what the writer believes is more significant. Idk. Just a thought!
I'd prefer if the rankings were based on lethality instead of reiatsu. The numbers being tied to the aspect of death they represent is interesting but it means it's next to impossible to change your rank. It would have been cool to see Barragan challenge Starrk for his position as the primera espada. Even if he didn't win, at the very least it would show that the ranks are based on who would (most likely) win in a fight.
Barragan is the coolest espada and nobody could change my mind
Is Prime Barragan a thing in the novels? I always hear about people bringing that up but how does a skeleton be in its prime?
According to the novels, Barragan was much stronger in the past. He's one of the oldest and most powerful Espada in history. But after Barragan became King, Barragan actually got weaker and he stopped fighting other Hollows. Barragan's powers faded, and he stopped pursuing the path of power. He got lazy.
@@TheBigExclusive I love the idea of someone telling Barragan that he has gotten fat and lazy, and Barragan doing a Brook joke like, "But I don't even have fat. Yohohoho!"
@@TheBigExclusiveno, according to the novels, ikomikidomoe was weaker when he fought barragon than when he fought yammammoto. Not that barragon was stronger back then
Plot twist: all the ways of determining the ranking of the Espada but Aizen just told different Espadas why they are ranked in a certain manner.
@@GameCyborgCh Honestly, that's what I'm leaning towards. That, or we're taking the idea of all Espada of the same rank sharing the same aspect a bit too far.
I've always thought that a fight between Starrk and Barragan would be a battle of attrition and that the ranks we're always accurate but the doubt was understandable
Starrk is easily able to overwhelm Barragan with his sheer number of Ceros and is able to get chip dmg after a wolf dies in an explosion from Respira
But at the same time Barragan could out last Starrk with Respira or if he ever got a chance to get close could deal a devastating blow
One could argue that time is all encompassing death/nothingness. But another could argue to feel such loneliness that it feels like death/nothingness already while still living, is death before aged death. Compounded especially since Stark is also presumed to be pretty old and could be immortal. He could be alive for eternity, loneliness making it feel like non existence.
whereas someone living it up knowing their time will come may not be dreading their aging, but if their life was lonely the whole time, they may welcome the aging aspect.
It may be a stretch but I would suggest that Loneliness and Time are closely related, as when you are alone you very much notice the time that passes in your isolation and when you are alone you have nothing but time. Hell considering Baraggan had a constant miasma of death around him I would say that makes him a pretty lonely individual too. Conversely Starrk has to send all of his time split up as two people meaning he could in theory be experiencing time twice the amount as others because he is two individuals.
Here's a weird thought I've just had over why the aspect of Solitude had the number one spot.
The Espada and their aspects were set up by Aizen, so maybe his own subconcious issues affected his decisions. His sheer level of power separated him from others (in his eyes), so that loneliness may have colored his views...
There's also a sort of play on words for #2: Ji (次) is often used in boy's names (such as Jiro) to denote the second son, although it means more "next". One of the readings for time is also Ji (時), seen in one of the main words for time, Jikan. I don't know if it was intentional, but I do see it.
The new background looks great! In my eyes, Baraggan should be the primera because his power is so ridiculous. Ceros seem to age, so Starrk wouldn't really be able to do anything against Baraggan's abilities.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to get behind the espada rankings being intrinsically tied to aspects of death. There are just way too many clues pointing the reader towards them being ranked by strength in the source material for me to believe Kubo ever intended anything else while he was writing it, one of which being Ulquiorra telling Ichigo there are 3 stronger espada when he reveals he's the 4th. If they were truly ranked based on aspect of death, that statement wouldn't mean anything at all, unless they're ranked by aspect (and just so happen to coincidentally also be progressively stronger).
Maybe the ranks are based on the lethality of the aspect. I would say that in almost all anime, despair is probably the most dangerous thing a main character encounters, Ichigo himself nearly dies multiple times because of the despair he feels when things start spiraling.
you know what's interesting is that almost all of the Espada have an Animal Reference (or Plant in Luppi's case) Stark: Wolf, Halibel: Shark, Neliel: Antelope, Ulquiorra: Bat, Nnoitra: Mantis, Grimmjow: Panther, Luppi: Clinging Ivy, Zommari: Sea Urchin, Szayelaporro: Parasitic Worm, Aaroniero: Blob Fish/Octopus, Yammy: Dinosaur? Centipede? Ape?.... But Not Barragan, Barragan's form is 100% referencing Humans and the Grim Reaper
isn't luppi an octopus?
@@mrxstatik7904 Go look at the name of his Zanpakto Torepadora means Climbing Vine & Ivy Lass >.>
Humans are animals too
@@help_im_trapped_in_a_square True Enough, and they're the animal that Barragan is based on
@@help_im_trapped_in_a_square Also that begs the question, if Humans are Animals and there are Naturally born souls in Soul Society that were never human and natural born Hollows in Hueco Mundo that were never human (like Ulquiorra) which can only happen because the world was split into three worlds, then are Hollows and Souls animals too?
I feel like the change to their rank denotes their aspect as being some sort of rework. the entire arc is dealing with Ichigo fighting lower and lower numbers and becoming more and more powerful to fight them. Now saying the rank is their aspect just doesnt make sense. On top of it Barragans seeming rage about his placement makes no sense either. I think the power ranking makes so much more sense. Further if it was ranked on aspect not power why have Yami go from 10 to 0?
I believe the Aspects are set, Aizen simply chooses the strongest of each Aspect. But the numbers shift depending on Reiatsu. So Yammy is Rage, that’s set. But the number goes from 10 to 0 because he gained more Reiatsu than 1 of Loneliness.
@@JinxeBlaqIf that was the case then Barragan wouldn't be complaining about being number 2 if he knew that they were indeed set and that 1 was only for those that represented loneliness. We already know he's aware of how the Espadas are ranked and yet he still also thinks it's based on strength. The only real explanation is that the number represents strength but the aspect of death doesn't rely on numbers and rather it's what each Espada is supposed to represent.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher Barragan is also extremely egotistical and not the most reliable narrator, so he likely was pissed regardless. That, and Aizen likely didn't tell the Espada everything or just lied to them.
I believe each aspect of death is something an espada must learn to accept and integrate into themselves if they hope to ascend the ranks, with each aspect of death building upon the one before it.
Nah, Aizen isn’t a very calculative character. He made Starrk no.1 for a reason.
It would work if the aspect of death was assigned to the Espada and not the number, much like the Sternritter getting their assigned letter.
Now this is a fight the fans would love to see.
I’ve come to the opinion that the rankings were about ranking the aspects in Aizen’s eyes. The worst death for Aizen is loneliness because as a character that is how he sees himself. Powerful beyond measure and destined to be alone because of the disconnect between him and his followers.
Did... I miss something?
When did we get the info that the aspects are bound to their numbers?
Shawlong clearly stated that all the numbers above 10 were numbered by their creation order, while 10 and down were ranked by strength
He made a video on it 8 months ago. It was Qlub Outside Q553
@@adaurysantos Oh, so I did miss it...
I see, so like Nelliel and Harribel, and Grimjaw and Luppi
But technically nothing stops the aspects from going up and down.
Noitora doesn't strike me as a Madness type of guy, it doesn't seem like he went from Madness to Despair, it feels like he was always "Despair" because of how inferior he felt compared to Nel.
As for Harribel and Luppi, both of them replaced an Arancar from nothing, they didn't have a previous rank, so I'm not really sure how that works, where did those two come from, we have some of Harribel's backstory, but we never see her at any other rank other than 3
I feel like there's some conflict of ideas here, that, or Aizen does what Aizen does and lied about them being ranked in power, which is totally possible, though than Noitora becomes a problem for going from one rank to another.
hey I'm not sure if it lines up but i would look into death rates in japan and if it matches with a turn between natural old age deaths vs suicides as the reason why stark is the Primera Espada. just a guess on my part.
Honestly, thematically I think Loneliness is the ultimate form of Death. We're dealing with practically immortal beings; Time begins to lose real meaning when you stretch into the centuries, millennia, eons, evading Time's clutches. But eventually EVERYTHING ends up alone; perhaps Time claimed most of the other beings you once knew, but at the very end, even as Time catches up to you... it's the Loneliness that lays its final claim to your being
Starrk definitely deserved the top spot. Barragan is a powerful king with a powerful ability....but he's never killed people JUST FROM EXISTING! He has to actively do that with his power.
Also, Starrk could probably beat Barragan with his Ceros and wolves. They are parts of his soul and we know based on the cycle of souls that souls don't die unless killed by a Quincy's power. So the Breath of Death couldn't do anything against something that doesn't naturally age and die with time.
14:23 again, BUT WHY that specific order? that question is what hits me now.
I think that the power level argument is definitively solved by Starrk and Barragan's backstory flashbacks. When we first see Starrk and Lilynette they are alone because nobody can physically survive in their presence, with the exception of Aizen, and later the other Arrancar. We see Barragan hanging out with a court full of random hollows, who are not literally disintegrating at his mere presence.
Aizen stated and showed how high reiatsu can negate certain skills or hacks, like he did with Soi Fon's shikai. Same reason why Barragan, despite hating Aizen so much never tried to erase him with Respira, because he most likely knew it would be useless against Aizen's monstruous reiatsu. When Aizen arrived to hueco mundo Barragan was surrounded by his court with no issue, but Stark instead was erasing others by being nearby. To me, Stark has more than enough reiatsu to negate Respira's effect, hence awarding the number 1 rank.
Aizen claimed so, but whether Soifon actually attacked him is more than doubtful. Aizen used Kyoka suigetsu, a moment later he appeared on the other side of the city and where he was standing was Hinamori. Moreover, we have examples of much weaker characters being able to use their abilities effectively against much stronger opponents. Aizen was not immune to Shinji's Sakanade, and after training with Unohana, Kenny was not immune to Mayuri's Ashisogi Jizo poison. Since Barragan saw Kyoka suigestu with his own eyes, I would be more inclined to believe that he simply knew that he would not be able to hit Aizen with the respira, and he would not have a second chance because Aizen would kill him for betraying him. Barragan is also much older than Stark, so he can simply control his reiatsu much better and lowers its level so as not to kill his slaves, after all, can someone without subjects call himself a king?
@@anhkriva5274 We have seen other characters brute force through attacks with sheer reiatsu, so it's definitely a thing.
@@MrGksarathyit definitely is but Stark can't do it. He has far more reiatsu, but think about when we've seen it.
Kenpachi does it to Ichigo who doesn't have any control over his reiatsu.
Aizen who has reiatsu equal to multiple captains did it to Soi Fon who had no arm, used her bankai twice and was almost out the fight already.
Stark fits as the Primera Espada. I thought it was Barragan for a while when I initially read Bleach, but Stark being the Primera is a good twist and makes sense to me.
Is the rankings are set in stone, then how did Yammy change his ranking to Rank 0?
It may have to do with aizens character. If we go off the theory that tge espada was a representation of aizen himself, rage is both aizens least open trait, as he feels he's to above everyone to hold enough value in them for anger, but at the same time, his anger for the soul king is his driving force in the series
I love the new set up the black looks really nice
After watching this video, I think it makes more sense for loneliness to be over time as an aspect of Death as time(rotting and growing old) are a part of death but it's not the only factor but its different when it comes to loneliness as it is the only aspect that true for every death in existence as when you die you experience death alone, its unchangeable and will always happen unlike time and the rest that can be changed or not a part of dying e.g. burning a animal or tree so rotting or age has no influence on its death but what died was still ultimately experiencing that death alone
Where does this idea that the espada numbers are based on lethality come from? Its just reiryoku volume.
We also see his power is "absolute" but if that was true, if he had a power that was so 100% even if reiatsu was not as great as Stark. One must ask why he did just use this power to put Aizen away? I know Aizen is the badass he is and so powerful but still I just do not understand why he did not use his power to end Aizen before he got out of hand.
Can someone explain what the hogyoku and Aizen did to Barragan? In the flashback, Barragan is already seen in his resurreccion form when he first meets Aizen. I was always under the impression that the hogyoku power up gives the Espada their resurreccion. If this is the case then Barragan didn't get anything from the hogyoku, unless his resurreccion is actually his base form and the hogyoku gave him the human form. All the other Espada appear to have been more animal/hollow types like Grimmjow and Halibel with their panther and shark forms prior to the hogyoku and then become entirely different beings that look like humans, so I have literally no idea what's going on there.
Not true. The hokyoku simply gives more power, allowing them to cross in soul reaper territory, using powers with a zanpakto. In many cases, that extra power is enough to turn hollows into arrancars, where their masks r torn off. In the cases of natural arrancars like starrk and ulquiorra tho, they just gained more power on top of that.
The 1st release is them returning to the form they originally had, but their power is still increased. Not all of them look the same, but they resemble closely enough. Ulquiorras originally form was his 1st release with a mask and no dress. Grimmjow was a panther. Barragons was a reaper.
Might be a bit of a hot take, but I feel like Kubo is retroactively ruining some parts of his story with klub outside
@@marcel6445 Mostly disagree with this take, but there are moments it seems to be so.
On the one hand, not only is there "1 is the loneliest number" angle but it also makes sense that time couldn't be 1, because time is a dimension and can only be observed in it's passing. A single moment is a snapshot, which we say is "frozen in time", because time needs multiple moments to exist. As such, time could really be any number _but_ 1, so 2 fits well enough.
On the other, I don't really like the recontextualising of the espada rankings to be wholey narrative and symbolic because of just how much talk there is about them that directly refers to them as a marking of power from the moment the numbers are first explained to fake karakura town. Fwiw it makes Luppi make a lot more sense, going from not an espada directly to espada 6, but it's repeatedly mentioned how "i'm only espada 4, there's 3 more stronger than me" or "it's been a long time, the espada 5 of today is as strong as the 3 of back then!" Even Yammy's reintroduction as espada 0 plays into the idea that it's representative of some degree of power (which was part of what made his reveal feel cheap and fake given what we'd previously seen from him). Numbers 11+ were explicitly nothing more than production order so it was never an issue, but 10 and below were first introduced as being a rating of strength and that was reinforced throughout the saga so the idea that they never represented any such thing feels off. The only excuse for it I can slightly believe is that it was always arrancar and their opponents making such claims, the fact we never see Aizen directly comment on it gives room for interpretation that everyone else is being mislead.
If what we know about time is able to affect everyone. Could barragain use that on someone's level of power on 1000 year blood war aizen and yhwach or are they too far above in leagues for the time power to work? Sorry for not explaining better
No your fine though. Legitimate question ⁉️ and to be fair Ywhach and Aizen are legitimately the closest thing's to God's at this point minus Reio (Soul-King) who's both and Ywhach being his biological son Nia+Divinity_Imnortal { family } and Aizen being immortal.
@AJ-kt5zo again not to sound like an idiot who doesn't know bleach but if the time ressurecion is that powerful couldn't barragain have put up a at least a bit of a fight against arancar aizen? I'm just trying to figure out how powerful the ressurecion is if it happened to fall into someone's hands who are godly. If everything else was given to that said user such as as power scaling the difference between baragain and 1000 yr aizen and yhwach would that be an undefeated power or something that can be overcome?
@@SeanBorel Again your not a idiot that's a scenario would interesting to see the limits of God's removed or tested in that manner to add to point.
Barragan was the king of Hueco Mundo for 2 reasons:
-His aspired to rule above everyone
-He had subjects and lackeys.
Stark would have been literally unable to have subjects, because the vast majority of hollows just evaporate from his mere presence. And he's not the type to be bossing anyone around either
I believe the aspects of death are not what determine the number. It’s more so that the Espada are the Apex of each aspect of death. Which means that each Espada would never change their aspect, but how strong each spot is among each other changes the number. So if another Arrancar who shares the same aspect of death as a current Espada become stronger than the current Espada they would be the new Espada of that aspect of death.
As for whether or not Barragan’s power would work against Stark, I think that his power would not affect Stark at all. As proven by Aizen, being significantly more powerful than your opponent would notify their hax type abilities. Like as seen with Soifon when he canceled out her two sting kill just by his reiatsu being higher.
Proof of the primara and number 2’s gap of power difference: Stark is shown already being an Arrancar naturally when Aizen found him, while Barragan was a Vasta Lorde who was turned into an Arrancar.
The next 2nd proof: Barragan was considerably damaged by Soifon’s bankai as well as was brought to such a state by just 2 captain level shinigami. Mind you, the two captains were the stealth squad, which isn’t at all known for fighting opponents head on or have their target aware of their presence. The 2nd captain was just really good with defensive kido.
Stark fought 4 combat oriented captains with 2 of them using hollow masks. Shinsui was the only one who landed real hits on stark. Shinsui was also strong enough that he was next in line to take over as the head captain of squad 1.
All of this is pretty telling about Stark and why he deserves to be the primera.
It really does make me wonder, because of all the information we have now on the Espada, why is one rank higher than another, just in general. I think the one answer which was most promising is raw Spiritual Pressure, as while Barrigan was King, his pressure wasn't strong enough to just kill everyone around him passively like it was for Stark. Yet, this gives another question, why give specific Aspects of Death more Spiritual Pressure? What came first, the Aspects of Death or the first group of Espada? If it was the Aspects of Death, then what was Kubo's reasoning for putting Solitude and Rage above Aging? I can sort of understand Rage, because of war, vengence, and the whole "fight or flight", but Solitude is an interesting one. If it was the first group of Espada, then this should mean that Stark was an Espada before Barrigan, as there was no primera espada before Stark, but there was a Segunda Espada before Barrigan, which could give some credit to the theory of Aizen giving Barrigan the 2 position to humble him. However, it is still undeniable that Stark's Spiritual Pressure is higher, so then it begs the question, why is Solitude stronger Spiritually than Aging? I would be very curious to know Kubo's logic there.
Edit: Oh, after MrTommo in the video mentioned that he was the first to hold the position, I had to take a look and Picaro who "had" the Segunda position before Barrigan, I had forgotten that he was in "Spirits are Forever with You" which means we likely do not know if he was canon or not. If he is though, then he used to be Espada 2 before Barrigan.
Edit2: Okay, so I did more research Picaro and Cien(the one who used to be the 0 Espada before Yami) have nothing which would contradict that they exist, Kubo has approved of something things in their novel just not said yay or nay for them specifically, and CFYOW also has confirmed things to be canon in the Novel those characters originate in(once again, just not them specifically). As far as I can find there is also nothing which states that Barrigan was the first Segunda Espada, just that he was in that position during the events of the main story. There are also quite a few things that would have Picaro be plausible to exist, which is why I thought he was canon, but I guess he is just unconfirmed. Not that it undermines by ending statement before, nor the validity of my question of whether they were placed there and the Aspect of Death was named, or if the Aspect of Death was named and then they were placed there.
@@fenrirsilver6441 It would be kinda weird for Picaro to be the first Segunda Espada, since Barragan was folded into Aizen's service from the begining, when Las Noches was first built.
I think it is based on lethality, just not by the power scaling we initially thought. If they are locked by aspects of death, then that would imply that they are scaled by how lethal their aspect is to killing the soul. Yes senescence kills and time is absolute, but nothing kills the soul faster than loneliness. (And acting without thinking I.e Rage.)
Barragan will always be my most favourite.
12:46 - That doesn’t make sense because Nnoitra changed ranks and it was implied that aspects of death are a part of the hollow on a spiritual level.
I wonder what if Barragan was, in fact, "Mortality" of Soul King? This fact should make all events more integral: death of this part of Soul King breaks balance of 3 worlds and allows Quincy to begin invasion...
Where does that leave Ulquiorra since his number disappears when he transforms? Would this mean even with his second release he’d still only be the 4th strongest?
I love hearing all sides, you kill it when it comes to Bleach lore! But honestly Kubo kinda contradicted himself with this stuff… There’s a reason Aizen brought the top 3 Espada, because they were (Aside from Ulquiorra’s second form) the strongest. Each ranking had (for the most part) a wide gap between them (Grimmjow
Wasn't Baraggan always stated to be the oldest Hollow and not a primera or however you spell it
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Wasn’t aaroniero the last of the original espada? If that’s the case barrigan wouldn’t be the first to hold 2nd
It's worth noting Aaroniero was said to be the "last of the first generation espada" by Zommari, which would imply none of the others were the original holders of their respective rankings when Aizen first chose his espada. Becoming an espada itself seems to be the goal of any arrancar, and they don't seem bothered by what number they actually are. Personally I always thought Starkk being the Primera was one of the only motivations he had to fight. All he needed was to be in the espada to feel complete, but being number 1 places responsibility on him by Aizen.
While I don't buy into espada rankings = power, I think Starkk is stronger. His wolves would probably damage Barragan in the same way Soi Fon's point blank missile did and he can keep is barrage of cero coming for as long as he needs. Both are overwhelming in their power. But who would actually win is another matter because again, Starkk is not the most motivated guy around. He may not even want to win if such a battle occurred.
There is definitely some semblance of power involved in the ranks because superiority based on number is brought up in both of Nel's encounters with espada, Nnoitra and Grimmjow respectively. Yammy also puts emphasis on his number and heavily implies being 0 means being the strongest. I just don't think the ranking is the be-all-end-all. For example Szayel is the smartest, how could we say he's any "lesser" than even the primera when his genius can potentially punch dozens of times above its weight? A more nuanced approach is what allows for the 7th to be the fastest, or the 5th to have the hardest hierro.
Could you make a movie of what chance all the Espada would have if they attacked Aizen at once? Before the Hogyoku of course
I honestly really like the idea of the aspects of death being related to the numbers, but if I remember correctly Kubo himself stated that they're ranked based on their strenght.
But still, I don't see Yammi beating Starrk or Baraggan.
This would make the theory of them being ranked by reiatsu the most probable even though I never liked it that much.