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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Hey Fabricators,
In this video I do a comparison between a 930 plunging and a 930 non plunging CV joint.
Both of these were purchased from RCV Performance Axles.
The non plunging retails for %229.99 and is SI15RF-30
The plunging is $399.99 and is SI15VL-30M
Very interesting. Understand the need and new there were both available but did not know how it was accomplished. Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome. 👍
Very well explained now I know which way to go 👏
Very nice Comparison video
Thanks! 👍
Greetings Mike, If I'm not mistaken, If you are using a solid axle, you use both kind. The inner use the Plunging CV and the outer ( near the spindle) use the Non-Plunging because of the amount of angle of the spindle as you steer the veh. lock to lock. If you noticed also that the ball separator is protruding to one side more than the other on the non-plunging. If I'm not mistaken, the protruding part will face toward the tire. If installed away from the tire , the separator will cut a groove on the axle. I see that you have those painful crack by your thumb nail that I use to get when I was wrenching. I used to Super glue it cause non of the band-aid work. It's been awhile, I was away from the comment section do to health issue.
That crack on my thumb won't go away and it's amazing how painful it is. I might give the super glue a try. The band aid helps, but not really that much.
I think I've decided to go with the plunging on the transaxle side, because there is a little bit of plunge needed. I agree with what you said above.
Thanks for the tips. 👍
Very informative Doug, thanks. I wasn’t aware of these differences.
You're welcome, thanks for the comment. ✌
G'day,
Excellent video.
It will be interesting to see them applied to the car.
So thanks for sharing ✌️ Peace from Melbourne Australia.
Hello Kevin!
Good to hear from ya.
Peace from US. ✌😁
Thanks for that, my only exposure to them was the plunging style.
You're welcome!
Great video. A couple points on the joints from the past: The German VW/Porsche Lobro mfg Rzeppa joints ball cages are extremely hard and are subject to braking apart and into small pieces that can mean a DNF. For short life racing applications of extreme angularity use such as off road racing, we used to anneal the cages to drop the hardness down. When the hard ones broke, they would more or less shatter. Annealing avoids the busting apart and extend the life of non-plunging style joint's in racing applications.
For the non-plunging types, one might consider using custom axles with extended spline lengths vs factory fixed length. They are made for a loose fit for the inner hub. These have no inside bottoming shoulder and they allow the ring of balls to rotate in their own natural plane of orbit. The axles were also smaller diameter torsional axles that were able to absorb lots of hammering and extend the life of transaxle used. Sway-Away still makes these axles to your specs out of 300M or E4340 for various applications I believe. They were rolled splines and fully centerless ground if I recall correctly. The old stock Type I VW IRS transaxle drive flanges had a minor diameter inside the flange seal that was smaller than the OE axle diameter thus making a stress riser and would handily brake the drive flange right off the stub shaft.
Excellent information, thanks for putting it here for other people to see.
First off, I am not trying to say you are wrong and stuff I just want to shed some light into the manufacturing process:
Produktion worker in said company here (Löbro sadly is no more, they got bought by some british company) (excuse me if I don't use the correct words because I only use the German words for this stuff). for the cages we use 2 different types of hardening processes depending on the specs the vehicle manufacturer provides:
there are different types of materials we use for different part numbers so every part is different ( some base mediums with softer spec, some with a harder spec and some we workers describe as "chewing gum" spec because they are hard to work on because they are hard to get clean cuts on because they are so chewy ) and every batch has a slight Variation as well in tolerances so it is really hard to say 100% what the problem is with these parts.
We use hardening in a gas oven and in salts baths for the cages, there are annealing processes for both but i don't really know to much about it (im am producing the inner race, they get induction hardened then annealed in ~180-200° in a oven). Like you said that really should not happen and the axles go trough a lot of testing before going into full production (prototypes are manufactured with the same specs as normal parts) if VW/Porsche gives the go on these parts it is mostly because they tested and approved everything (mostly with hot laps on the Nürburgring and driving on public roads and the famous Autobahn, but you know the deal, there is never enough testing and sometimes people find stuff that no one tried before.
GKN Automotive also has a Motorsports department for Quality racing parts on OEM Racing specs, but i don't know if it is only for manufacturer racing or private personell as well, there is a whole aftermarket section on GKN Automotive with contact Infos for Aftermarket/Motorsport support Solutions if anyone who reads this wants to have OEM racing parts.
There is also a lot more going on behind the scenes but i don't want to write a book right now :D
@@chrisCKDE Thank you, very informative information. My suggestion of annealing cages is really for more specialized racing off road. My experience was more with the small diameter non-plunging Rzeppa/Lobro joints. These go through extreme angles and side thrust in a race and the objective was more of finishing a short race rather than high mileage life that normal use would provide.
Thanks Bud for The technical details.
See you
:))
Hey Valy! Thanks.
I've never heard of the non plunging type before. Very familiar with Type 2 style units though.
Well you've heard of non plunging now. 😁
Please @Doug Bug, did you know the splines type and module of type 930 with 28 spline ? Thank's you
Long time how are you? Plunging is famous for cracking the cage under full power suspension angle load. Ask me how I know. P3 vs non p 0.
I'm well thanks, it's been a while.
Good to know on the plunging, and it does seem like that would be when they're most vulnerable.
Can u run the non plung on the trans side and a plunging on the trailing arm side?
You can, but you'll still be limited by the angle of the plunging CV.