In this video, I am exploring the idea of using both Horn+Drums. Not suggesting to use Drums instead of Horns because Horn is gonna be better anyways. Just pinning this comment just in case.
Great info! And good choice going Horn + Drum on your field marches. I think Horn + Ring is only better if you plan to swarm flags, or on your Joan march - since she casts 3 skills per cycle often and benefits from a 100+ rage Rejuvenate each time. Love how horn + drum doesn't have many "wasted" procs like ring when fighting back & forth on the field. When fighting back & forth, you're only connected for 1-2 seconds at a time - and moving around the rest of the time. If ring procs on one of the 1-2 turns you're connected, the all damage buff isn't active until the following 2 turns when you're probably moving, so it very rarely overlaps with your active skills - unless you're tanking or chasing. Drum is great for back and forth fighting. Lets you fire your first skill sooner every time your rage resets, and then just lets you stack up rage to fire your skills sooner. If you have a march that is almost full rage but walking back and forth, another march can boost it to full with drum, and it will fire its skill when it reengages - rather than just punching for white damage and walking back.
Thank you for the in-depth look at the drums. Most players probably do not know that a former TH-camr by the name of Drogothein covered this topic appropriately 3-4 years ago using a binomial algebra calculator. He got the idea to do the video because many of the top Ark teams were using the drums. Two things happened from that video: first many believed the math and built drums but, secondly, most players mocked the math results and poo poo'd the idea in favor of the horn. To this day, many folks refuse to consider the idea of using drums. Personally, I use both, but I use them for different things.... Thx for the video. ❤
@BilegtROK Honestly, I don't know. What you are doing and proposing is even more fascinating. Drogothein was assuming either horn or drum. I think, if I understand you correctly, you are proposing the use of both simultaneously? That makes me want to try it ASAP. Perhaps Canyon? Especially the Lost Kingdom Cayon with six marches? Or in an Ark of Osiris practice match for testing variations? Idk but I think it's worth a try if you can find someone with the equipment to pull it off.
There is nothing to discuss and study here. The ring on the KVK map is the worst accessory. Damage is cumulative. On the KVK map it is 40%, 10% from weapons and 50% from the ring = 100%. Example: on the KVK map you have 10,000 red base, damage from the KVK map gives 40% and 10% is given by weapons, now you have 15,000 red. Add a ring and you have 20,000 red, not 22,500 as you would like. Horn + Drum is the best solution. Figured it out, on the KVK map you have 50% damage, 40% is given by the card, 3% is given by the prekvk buff, 7-10% are given by weapons. You buff 3 of your squads. There are commanders who have high damage with a skill. With drums they will hit at 5-6 seconds. I want to deal 2700 with a skill to three targets every 5 seconds, why would I use a useless ring that casts at 9 seconds? Liu Che has a Bruiser, 100 rage consumption. With the ring and the Bruiser, Liu Che casts at 12 seconds. Lol. The ring has been trash for the last three years. You have a Hunter on each squad with a 5-second cooldown (we get to it quickly with Horn + Drum), there is a Balance that works at 80% rage (we get to it quickly with Horn + Drum). Several squads have Unstoppable and Dashing, which increase the base damage of the skill. For example, 5% Hunter, 5% Unstoppable and 10% Dashing. You had 2700 as a base skill, and now 3240, to which all skill damage buffs will be added. There is a tier 5 helmet, which has a 5-second cooldown (we get to it quickly). Using Horn + Drum, you quickly get to hitting skills that are enhanced by your talents. Lots of rage - change the commanders' talents a little. In 2025, only clowns will make a ring. 27 billion CP, 7 Horn + drums with talents, 1960. Exchanges 1 to 5 after KVK. The ring buffs air, the drum buffs a squad + 2 squads nearby. A drum with a talent is better than a tier 2 set.
Very interesting Video. ❤ However at the beginn, it would have been nice to also include Liu plus Horn not only the Drum to make it look more appealing. Also something everyone needs to consider is that these perfect mathematical instances are not given at all in a ball fight. There is various variables which in this case are not included. William, Joan, Trajan.. just to name a few rage buffing commanders you will find on the field and those aren't even rare to come by. If you would have included those commanders you would have realised a shift towards the Ring again. + When using only drums you need to talk about what happens with the rage cycles once one drum march disappeares because it dies. You gotta get humbled. Overall great Video. Would recommend
It's a pity that this video wasn't created a few days earlier, because I just crafted ring no. 3. What you say really makes sense to me and I will definitely try it in time
I'd rather "over rage" and cast my skill faster (in the first cycle) than the other guy because by the time his skill has been cast, his troops will be lower, hence the damage the skill does will be lower. In a murder ball scenario, one is going back and forth all the time, avoiding the surround mechanics from straying a march and building up rage at the same time.. to cast skill. simulations don't take that into account IMO.
Hi: if I run 4 marches of ranged army, what do you think of horn and drum? (almost better than horn and ring?) Say, I get horn and ring for Gaja/Cordove; then, the other 3 marches have horn + drum. Then, don't I get the max rage for gaja? thx. (gaja gets 14.5 rage per second from his own horn. Then, he gets another 12 x 3 = 36 rage per second from the 3 drums). Isn't that best? thx.
I also can run up to 4 Engineering marches in the field, depending on the conditions of the situation. I use horns on Seige and drums on my muderball marches. I find that works very well in the field as I enjoy running both ranged and melee simultaneously.
Rage per second was just a comparison. We have to look at rage as 50. That being said, running horn+drums on your 4 siege match sounds very good in my opinion. Siege marches generally doesnt have good rage engine. Yes they do have skill or support talent tree commanders but the siege talent tree itself does not have rage engine like undying fury in skill talent tree. So i can see that they could benefit from the horn+drum build.
I did the math but I forgot to reply to this. It seems Horn+Ring is the correct option for Siege marches. Ring>Plume. You can defo run Horn+Drums on your Siege marches so that they can cast faster. But It will not be as effective as on normal marches since most of Siege marches doesnt have AOE damage to leverage. However, with Drums, you can apply debuffs faster that siege marches provide. You wont go wrong going for Horn+Ring or Horn+Drums on all your siege marches. However, Ring is gonna be better than Plume.
I think people have misunderstood the Butterfly inscription. It only applies on the turns the commander does combo attacks. In that sense, it would be better on a Liu Che than on Arthur in my estimation. I hope you will cover more into this in future videos. Thanks
good brother, first thanks for the videos, but the question is whether it activates horn and drum at the same time since the limit of fury is 220 it seems to me, it will not be better ring and horn in all marches? greetings and I follow you.
Thanks! I have explained overrage cases at 18:10. If horn and drums procs at the same time, you will generate 204 rage during that turn which is not hitting the limit.
Puedes hacer un Video de las Mejores Inscripciones para Armamentos?? He visto muchas dudas de ''Destruccion'' (Formacion en Arco), No es la mejor opcion
For the archers 2-2-2 set is it more logical to craft boots and chest from the dragon's breath set or chest and gloves? I think attack will lose a lot of value for archers because of healing damage doesnt benefit from the attack.
the question i was waiting to be answered is this 7 horns/ring vs 6 drums/ring and 1 {dagger/wep/or the attack buff accessory ] against each other what will perform better. the way i understod it is drum will gives u the space to open 2 spot of accessory for a march that eather dosent do much damge or dosent need much rage but what making me not totally convinced is that a 15-19 health deff redction or the attack buff can make up the potentially lost rage .. hard to say hard to test
Dagger is very weak on open field from my perspective. Since it procs for 3 seconds, it is really hard to get stacks up because the field fight is back and forth. But Dagger will trigger on average once every 3.5 sec, for Liu Che it is every 2.7 sec. It does go up to 3 stacks quite often but only if you are staying on that target all the time.
@ the difference is very small in terms of pure rage generation. But Horn gives you little bit more rage and has no cooldown advantage so it might get blessed more from RNG. Now you can start adding Horn on your drums to actually see difference in my opinion. I really cant say that Horn+Drums is gonna break the meta atm. I need more test results. Hard to break meta you know, because meta is proven method that is simply working.
It prioritizes your own troops first. It will start giving rage to allied troops only if you running 1 or 2 marches and it has no one else to give rage. The range is quite big, almost like Alex's shield range. According to VIP support.
@@BilegtROKThank you for your answer, I have 3 drums 5, horns and 2 rings, I had created it a long time ago because I prefer to increase the serious rage to your videos, I am glad that someone says that the drum is much more interesting, I will go on my sixth step with drum and horn?
@ Actually you need 1 more drums. for 5 marches 4 is minimum, for 6 marches 5 drums is minimum. I would do this. The idea here is so anti-meta that its really hard for me to recommend only by doing some math. We also need to have actual open field results as well. But since you invested into drums, I would suggest just go all the way.
IMO drums are a fine accessory to make 1 of because you can easily lvl 5 awaken it from the egg event and it's very good on combo commanders like Liu or Arthur, but i would never go all in. I certainly wouldnt consider making more than that till you have crit horns on all your marches and let's be real, no one does. PS: the damage increase % maths you did was comparing horn+drums vs just ring, which isn't the right compare. need to compare horn+drums vs horn+ring, which is still higher.
Great video! Opening pandoras box I like it🤣 Could you do the rage math on x3 butterfly Inscription affects 3 combo marches with horn + drum. If you have use x3 Arthur as enabler
As an engineer... chat gpt is ok for many things... But it is completely useless in math😅 it is more a meme of how bad he is than anything It explain the theory fine. It can usually find the equations to use... but he fails over 75% of the time when it comes to using the equation
In this video, I am exploring the idea of using both Horn+Drums. Not suggesting to use Drums instead of Horns because Horn is gonna be better anyways. Just pinning this comment just in case.
Great info! And good choice going Horn + Drum on your field marches.
I think Horn + Ring is only better if you plan to swarm flags, or on your Joan march - since she casts 3 skills per cycle often and benefits from a 100+ rage Rejuvenate each time.
Love how horn + drum doesn't have many "wasted" procs like ring when fighting back & forth on the field.
When fighting back & forth, you're only connected for 1-2 seconds at a time - and moving around the rest of the time. If ring procs on one of the 1-2 turns you're connected, the all damage buff isn't active until the following 2 turns when you're probably moving, so it very rarely overlaps with your active skills - unless you're tanking or chasing.
Drum is great for back and forth fighting. Lets you fire your first skill sooner every time your rage resets, and then just lets you stack up rage to fire your skills sooner. If you have a march that is almost full rage but walking back and forth, another march can boost it to full with drum, and it will fire its skill when it reengages - rather than just punching for white damage and walking back.
Thank you for the in-depth look at the drums. Most players probably do not know that a former TH-camr by the name of Drogothein covered this topic appropriately 3-4 years ago using a binomial algebra calculator. He got the idea to do the video because many of the top Ark teams were using the drums.
Two things happened from that video: first many believed the math and built drums but, secondly, most players mocked the math results and poo poo'd the idea in favor of the horn. To this day, many folks refuse to consider the idea of using drums.
Personally, I use both, but I use them for different things....
Thx for the video. ❤
I was exploring the idea of using both. Is there any other implementation other than field if I may ask?
@BilegtROK Honestly, I don't know. What you are doing and proposing is even more fascinating. Drogothein was assuming either horn or drum. I think, if I understand you correctly, you are proposing the use of both simultaneously? That makes me want to try it ASAP. Perhaps Canyon? Especially the Lost Kingdom Cayon with six marches? Or in an Ark of Osiris practice match for testing variations? Idk but I think it's worth a try if you can find someone with the equipment to pull it off.
@BilegtROK if your hypothesis is correct, you could very well be proposing an entirely new meta in RoK. I think it's worth exploring
Drogothein is back streaming rok.
I use both horn and drum. My drum is on my tankiest march.
There is nothing to discuss and study here. The ring on the KVK map is the worst accessory. Damage is cumulative. On the KVK map it is 40%, 10% from weapons and 50% from the ring = 100%. Example: on the KVK map you have 10,000 red base, damage from the KVK map gives 40% and 10% is given by weapons, now you have 15,000 red. Add a ring and you have 20,000 red, not 22,500 as you would like.
Horn + Drum is the best solution. Figured it out, on the KVK map you have 50% damage, 40% is given by the card, 3% is given by the prekvk buff, 7-10% are given by weapons. You buff 3 of your squads. There are commanders who have high damage with a skill. With drums they will hit at 5-6 seconds. I want to deal 2700 with a skill to three targets every 5 seconds, why would I use a useless ring that casts at 9 seconds? Liu Che has a Bruiser, 100 rage consumption. With the ring and the Bruiser, Liu Che casts at 12 seconds. Lol. The ring has been trash for the last three years. You have a Hunter on each squad with a 5-second cooldown (we get to it quickly with Horn + Drum), there is a Balance that works at 80% rage (we get to it quickly with Horn + Drum). Several squads have Unstoppable and Dashing, which increase the base damage of the skill. For example, 5% Hunter, 5% Unstoppable and 10% Dashing. You had 2700 as a base skill, and now 3240, to which all skill damage buffs will be added. There is a tier 5 helmet, which has a 5-second cooldown (we get to it quickly). Using Horn + Drum, you quickly get to hitting skills that are enhanced by your talents. Lots of rage - change the commanders' talents a little. In 2025, only clowns will make a ring. 27 billion CP, 7 Horn + drums with talents, 1960. Exchanges 1 to 5 after KVK.
The ring buffs air, the drum buffs a squad + 2 squads nearby. A drum with a talent is better than a tier 2 set.
that was very aggressive way to put it. But you have some good points here!
Very interesting Video. ❤
However at the beginn, it would have been nice to also include Liu plus Horn not only the Drum to make it look more appealing.
Also something everyone needs to consider is that these perfect mathematical instances are not given at all in a ball fight. There is various variables which in this case are not included.
William, Joan, Trajan.. just to name a few rage buffing commanders you will find on the field and those aren't even rare to come by.
If you would have included those commanders you would have realised a shift towards the Ring again.
+ When using only drums you need to talk about what happens with the rage cycles once one drum march disappeares because it dies. You gotta get humbled.
Overall great Video. Would recommend
Great video, especially relevant when you have all these commanders that reduce rage.
Beenn enjoying your content i gained alot of knowledge 🙌
Keep up the great work sir!
It's a pity that this video wasn't created a few days earlier, because I just crafted ring no. 3. What you say really makes sense to me and I will definitely try it in time
Great work
I'd rather "over rage" and cast my skill faster (in the first cycle) than the other guy because by the time his skill has been cast, his troops will be lower, hence the damage the skill does will be lower. In a murder ball scenario, one is going back and forth all the time, avoiding the surround mechanics from straying a march and building up rage at the same time.. to cast skill. simulations don't take that into account IMO.
good, people are finally catching on
Hi: if I run 4 marches of ranged army, what do you think of horn and drum? (almost better than horn and ring?) Say, I get horn and ring for Gaja/Cordove; then, the other 3 marches have horn + drum. Then, don't I get the max rage for gaja? thx. (gaja gets 14.5 rage per second from his own horn. Then, he gets another 12 x 3 = 36 rage per second from the 3 drums). Isn't that best? thx.
I also can run up to 4 Engineering marches in the field, depending on the conditions of the situation. I use horns on Seige and drums on my muderball marches. I find that works very well in the field as I enjoy running both ranged and melee simultaneously.
Rage per second was just a comparison. We have to look at rage as 50. That being said, running horn+drums on your 4 siege match sounds very good in my opinion. Siege marches generally doesnt have good rage engine. Yes they do have skill or support talent tree commanders but the siege talent tree itself does not have rage engine like undying fury in skill talent tree. So i can see that they could benefit from the horn+drum build.
I am not sure if it will be better than having horn+ring or horn+plume. I will try doing quick calculation and come back to you tomorrow.
@@BilegtROKthe plume is interesting as not as powerful as it seems - but, I am happily corrected
I did the math but I forgot to reply to this. It seems Horn+Ring is the correct option for Siege marches. Ring>Plume. You can defo run Horn+Drums on your Siege marches so that they can cast faster. But It will not be as effective as on normal marches since most of Siege marches doesnt have AOE damage to leverage. However, with Drums, you can apply debuffs faster that siege marches provide. You wont go wrong going for Horn+Ring or Horn+Drums on all your siege marches. However, Ring is gonna be better than Plume.
I sub for tbw bloopers 😂🤣😂
I think people have misunderstood the Butterfly inscription. It only applies on the turns the commander does combo attacks. In that sense, it would be better on a Liu Che than on Arthur in my estimation. I hope you will cover more into this in future videos. Thanks
What about drums on Arthur primary with Butterfly inscription?
good brother, first thanks for the videos, but the question is whether it activates horn and drum at the same time since the limit of fury is 220 it seems to me, it will not be better ring and horn in all marches? greetings and I follow you.
Thanks! I have explained overrage cases at 18:10. If horn and drums procs at the same time, you will generate 204 rage during that turn which is not hitting the limit.
I wished i would overrage every round tbh
Puedes hacer un Video de las Mejores Inscripciones para Armamentos??
He visto muchas dudas de ''Destruccion'' (Formacion en Arco), No es la mejor opcion
For the archers 2-2-2 set is it more logical to craft boots and chest from the dragon's breath set or chest and gloves? I think attack will lose a lot of value for archers because of healing damage doesnt benefit from the attack.
It does, you need a lot attack to get full true dmg, or not?
@@hurenfeind lol just check the true damage. it says attack doesnt matter for true damage.
@@testedbyme4803 but the ration of how many % of your heal is dealt as true dmg depends on attack with the cap of 80% bla blah ...
@@hurenfeind damnnnn cant you read
@@testedbyme4803 could ask you the same
the question i was waiting to be answered is this
7 horns/ring vs 6 drums/ring and 1 {dagger/wep/or the attack buff accessory ] against each other what will perform better.
the way i understod it is drum will gives u the space to open 2 spot of accessory for a march that eather dosent do much damge or dosent need much rage but what making me not totally convinced is that a 15-19 health deff redction or the attack buff can make up the potentially lost rage .. hard to say hard to test
Dagger is very weak on open field from my perspective. Since it procs for 3 seconds, it is really hard to get stacks up because the field fight is back and forth. But Dagger will trigger on average once every 3.5 sec, for Liu Che it is every 2.7 sec. It does go up to 3 stacks quite often but only if you are staying on that target all the time.
Dude's a mad scientist
can you explain why huo can achieve 1000 rage in just 4 second?
He has 150 rage requirement reduction for the first 15 sec when he enters battle. Which means, in order to cast skill, he only needs 850 rage total.
So if I run 4 or 5 drums on 5 marches is that better than 4 or 5 horns?
No no, Horn is gonna be better option. Here I am exploring the idea of using both at the same time.
@BilegtROK OK because I've crafted 5 drums and they seem to do pretty well. Was just wondering if it was a big difference.
@ the difference is very small in terms of pure rage generation. But Horn gives you little bit more rage and has no cooldown advantage so it might get blessed more from RNG. Now you can start adding Horn on your drums to actually see difference in my opinion. I really cant say that Horn+Drums is gonna break the meta atm. I need more test results. Hard to break meta you know, because meta is proven method that is simply working.
What about talented drums and horns, it is worth it? Thank for the video it was very nice
The urgent question is that the drum makes 2 people angry, are the 2 people our troops or the allied troops?
It prioritizes your own troops first. It will start giving rage to allied troops only if you running 1 or 2 marches and it has no one else to give rage. The range is quite big, almost like Alex's shield range. According to VIP support.
@@BilegtROKThank you for your answer, I have 3 drums 5, horns and 2 rings, I had created it a long time ago because I prefer to increase the serious rage to your videos, I am glad that someone says that the drum is much more interesting, I will go on my sixth step with drum and horn?
@ Actually you need 1 more drums. for 5 marches 4 is minimum, for 6 marches 5 drums is minimum. I would do this. The idea here is so anti-meta that its really hard for me to recommend only by doing some math. We also need to have actual open field results as well. But since you invested into drums, I would suggest just go all the way.
will author proc drum fast the way LC get rage fast?
IMO drums are a fine accessory to make 1 of because you can easily lvl 5 awaken it from the egg event and it's very good on combo commanders like Liu or Arthur, but i would never go all in.
I certainly wouldnt consider making more than that till you have crit horns on all your marches and let's be real, no one does.
PS: the damage increase % maths you did was comparing horn+drums vs just ring, which isn't the right compare. need to compare horn+drums vs horn+ring, which is still higher.
I'll do it.
are you going to make a discord server for your yt channel?
I just put the link in the description.
@@BilegtROK thank you
long time no see Ubbe!
Bro got shout out by chadski
Great video! Opening pandoras box I like it🤣 Could you do the rage math on x3 butterfly Inscription affects 3 combo marches with horn + drum. If you have use x3 Arthur as enabler
As an engineer... chat gpt is ok for many things...
But it is completely useless in math😅 it is more a meme of how bad he is than anything
It explain the theory fine. It can usually find the equations to use... but he fails over 75% of the time when it comes to using the equation
But overall still a good video, and gets my "👍"
Yeah I got lazy with the probability 😂. But I thought it somewhat made sense.