That’s really fascinating. I’ve only ever seen the acid treatment done by Phil at Opal Mills. I’ve never seen any other method. I can’t wait to see the comparison.
The acid one is pretty good and should be the next one coming up but we will see. A few other projects are about to finish which I am way overdue to release.
Oil is a pretty old school method. I have some rocks cooking in some acid as we speak for the next one. I'm also thinking of blending a sugar + oil method someone gave me as well.
Infinite choices when it comes to oil. I tried hundreds of dollars worth of CeOx when I developed mine... Now I have an oil collection... Only other person I know who has an oil collection is P Diddy...
Sugar and Heat is better with fairy unless you have something like a Kiln, or BBQ, or even camp fire. My oven gets to 280c and it still isnt hot enough to get to properly treated with oil. Next time try some method that gets you up to 500C.. Love to hear your take on what happens as a result and compare to your two here.
It really shouldn't need 500 with the right oil. A non-refined oil should be fully burnt to a crisp by the time you hit 200. The issue is the supermarket labels are never completely honest.
@@RoysRocks I've tried to figure this out but the science is a bit over my head. From what I understand at 200-250c you are just reaching smoke point and that is why you only get a slight darkening with some residual oil left on the stone. When I cook up to 500-600 or higher, full pyrolysis takes place and converts the entirety of the oil to carbon and that is what gives that very nice black darkening that make the embedded opal colour pop so hard. Most of my learning here empirical though. I know lots of ways it doesn't work but just because I try lots of ways and fail to get the commercial results I want. The fairy can take higher heat and gets better commercial results when you take up. I also find that stabilisation works a lot better after you take it up past 500c. No issues with the stabiliser mixing with oil that is not fully burnt. I think at higher temps the stone also becomes lighter, and seems more thirsty. It takes in stabilisers more easily, especially under vacuum.
500+ is like full carbonization of a material like when you are aiming for activated carbon compounds. Which is true that will lead to much more carbon than the slower carbon deposition at lower temperatures above the smoke point. The unrefined oils are meant to have a smoke point just above 100 which is why I was hoping to get decent carbon conversion at a bit over twice the smoke point but I don't think the cold pressed oil was simply cold pressed. Hence nothing until 180+. The lighter stones makes sense with the conversion of every last bit of oil and should make the rock soak up just about anything including a stabiliser. I will try to avoid the use of a furnace and stick to things people can get easily for now but out of interest later I can go all the way past 1000 to see what temp the opal is destroyed at.
@@RoysRocks Add this to your list of experiments. Cut the top off of a coke can, make sure dry and put a piece of fairy in bottom. Cover fairy with olive oil, then put a tissue on top of the oil/fairy. Wait a sec for the tissue to soak up some of the oil. Then light the tissue on fire (in safe place outside). Then let your new "furnace" burn until the oil is completely used up. Anybody with some outside and $1 can do this. I've treated fairy/andamooka concrete/hard andamooka as a test in a roaring winter fire. Wrapped in foil and put off to the side in my wood oven. The hard matrix exploded but the fairy in oil treated really well. Must have been 800C plus in there burning hard wood with good air flow.
very interesting, so engine or gear oil wont be any use, thats so refined. What's the difference between doing the treatment on a polished over rough stone and can you polish a stone after treatment My guess is you cant cut much off the surface but would a light-final polish remove the darkness? Great video looking forward to seeing the next batch
Nah those heavy oils wont burn without a furnace so we wouldn't get too far. You dont want a fully polished stone just shaped and pre-polished. Treatment doesnt take hold as well it the stone is polished (future video coming). You can also block the pores so the treatment is also not as deep. Just a final polish after a treatment like this. Well, stabilization then final polish.
Another angle I hadn’t thought about👍 In the home brew hobby I like to boil my sugar for 40 minutes not just dissolve it , this converts the sucrose into simpler fructose and glucose molecules . I wonder if this will make a difference with your sugar treatments ?
Yeah you will induce hydrolysis and break the sucrose up if you give it some heat but it has to be a pretty heavy boil if you want it to be done quick. There is a research paper that studied this called "Rates of Spontaneous Cleavage of Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose, and Trehalose in Water, and the Catalytic Proficiencies of Invertase and Trehalas" by Richard Wolfenden and Yang Yuan. It wont effect the treatment much as using pure glucose/fructose themselves doesn't make much of a difference.
Depends on what your definition of overtreat is. You can damage the opal speckles but that needs much higher temps. You can also repeat so many times you get clumps of carbon all over the place.
Love these experiments and as chemicals are hardly regulated here, it's nice to learn about methods like this one 🙂
Chemical availability is pretty different in some areas.
Australia is pretty strict but you cant keep the oil/sugar and heat away from the masses.
That’s really fascinating. I’ve only ever seen the acid treatment done by Phil at Opal Mills. I’ve never seen any other method. I can’t wait to see the comparison.
The acid one is pretty good and should be the next one coming up but we will see.
A few other projects are about to finish which I am way overdue to release.
Thanks Roy.😊. Looking forward to seeing more on this subject.
Plenty more to come I can promise that.
Interesting Roy, I am blown away about using oil! Staggers belief but I'm watching you. I can't wait for more, Merry Christmas mate, Paul BB FNQld
Oil is a pretty old school method. I have some rocks cooking in some acid as we speak for the next one.
I'm also thinking of blending a sugar + oil method someone gave me as well.
VerY INTERESTING, can't wait for more!
Already multiple in the pipeline.
That’s a lot of options to choose with oil. I’ve never thought about using oil, very interested to see how you go. Thanks for sharing Roy.
Infinite choices when it comes to oil. I tried hundreds of dollars worth of CeOx when I developed mine... Now I have an oil collection... Only other person I know who has an oil collection is P Diddy...
@@RoysRocks 🤣 did not expect a Diddy joke from Prof Lehmann! That got me!
@@DestroyerX2000 What can I say. I am a man of the internet. I soak in all sorts of info including rubbish celebrity news.
Love watching it transform!! Ive never done this and too new to try but LOVE watching it be done 💖😻
Well there are many more to come. Plus stabilising which is much trickier.
@RoysRocks can't wait to see!!!! 😻💖
Thanks for another great video. I think everyone needs to know what's best for treating the opal
Well there are many other methods to go before I pick a best... but I do like sugar and heat.
Looking forward to seeing the end results.
Many crispy and black stones.
Love the chemistry of it, should be possible to do a scatter plot for eg color of oil or oil price or something, towards temp needed ;-)
There are some great tables from food tech research out there.
I'll probably include a few in the website/book write up.
Interestingly intell thank you
Hopefully much more to come.
Maybe try the oil they use for emeralds
I think that is most commonly Cedarwood oil but not sure how well it burns. Would smell nicer though.
Sugar and Heat is better with fairy unless you have something like a Kiln, or BBQ, or even camp fire. My oven gets to 280c and it still isnt hot enough to get to properly treated with oil. Next time try some method that gets you up to 500C.. Love to hear your take on what happens as a result and compare to your two here.
It really shouldn't need 500 with the right oil. A non-refined oil should be fully burnt to a crisp by the time you hit 200. The issue is the supermarket labels are never completely honest.
@@RoysRocks I've tried to figure this out but the science is a bit over my head. From what I understand at 200-250c you are just reaching smoke point and that is why you only get a slight darkening with some residual oil left on the stone. When I cook up to 500-600 or higher, full pyrolysis takes place and converts the entirety of the oil to carbon and that is what gives that very nice black darkening that make the embedded opal colour pop so hard. Most of my learning here empirical though. I know lots of ways it doesn't work but just because I try lots of ways and fail to get the commercial results I want. The fairy can take higher heat and gets better commercial results when you take up. I also find that stabilisation works a lot better after you take it up past 500c. No issues with the stabiliser mixing with oil that is not fully burnt. I think at higher temps the stone also becomes lighter, and seems more thirsty. It takes in stabilisers more easily, especially under vacuum.
500+ is like full carbonization of a material like when you are aiming for activated carbon compounds. Which is true that will lead to much more carbon than the slower carbon deposition at lower temperatures above the smoke point.
The unrefined oils are meant to have a smoke point just above 100 which is why I was hoping to get decent carbon conversion at a bit over twice the smoke point but I don't think the cold pressed oil was simply cold pressed. Hence nothing until 180+.
The lighter stones makes sense with the conversion of every last bit of oil and should make the rock soak up just about anything including a stabiliser.
I will try to avoid the use of a furnace and stick to things people can get easily for now but out of interest later I can go all the way past 1000 to see what temp the opal is destroyed at.
@@RoysRocks Add this to your list of experiments. Cut the top off of a coke can, make sure dry and put a piece of fairy in bottom. Cover fairy with olive oil, then put a tissue on top of the oil/fairy. Wait a sec for the tissue to soak up some of the oil. Then light the tissue on fire (in safe place outside). Then let your new "furnace" burn until the oil is completely used up. Anybody with some outside and $1 can do this. I've treated fairy/andamooka concrete/hard andamooka as a test in a roaring winter fire. Wrapped in foil and put off to the side in my wood oven. The hard matrix exploded but the fairy in oil treated really well. Must have been 800C plus in there burning hard wood with good air flow.
@OpalAuctions53Frogs why do I feel like I remember seeing you cook opal in coke cans on your channel in the past?
very interesting, so engine or gear oil wont be any use, thats so refined. What's the difference between doing the treatment on a polished over rough stone and can you polish a stone after treatment My guess is you cant cut much off the surface but would a light-final polish remove the darkness?
Great video looking forward to seeing the next batch
Nah those heavy oils wont burn without a furnace so we wouldn't get too far.
You dont want a fully polished stone just shaped and pre-polished.
Treatment doesnt take hold as well it the stone is polished (future video coming).
You can also block the pores so the treatment is also not as deep.
Just a final polish after a treatment like this. Well, stabilization then final polish.
Another angle I hadn’t thought about👍 In the home brew hobby I like to boil my sugar for 40 minutes not just dissolve it , this converts the sucrose into simpler fructose and glucose molecules . I wonder if this will make a difference with your sugar treatments ?
Yeah you will induce hydrolysis and break the sucrose up if you give it some heat but it has to be a pretty heavy boil if you want it to be done quick.
There is a research paper that studied this called "Rates of Spontaneous Cleavage of Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose, and Trehalose in Water, and the Catalytic Proficiencies of Invertase and Trehalas" by Richard Wolfenden and Yang Yuan.
It wont effect the treatment much as using pure glucose/fructose themselves doesn't make much of a difference.
@ fair enough , I will leave if for the yeast to devour then 😜
I used engine oil. Result was similar to yours, some patches.
Patches are pretty common. Surprised engine oil cooked down well?
@ I’d say the result was similar to yours. I was treating fairy opals from Opalton.
Can you over treat/cook fairy opal?
Depends on what your definition of overtreat is. You can damage the opal speckles but that needs much higher temps. You can also repeat so many times you get clumps of carbon all over the place.
Mmm, Deep fried shiny
Sugar free recipe as well. Great for keto diets.
Oils ai`nt oils SAL.!!!
These oils be lying. Might even take a bunch into the lab to prove it...