I have a Monolith Flat (not a Max) with Shuriken LM (flat) burrs, and I recently added an MC6 with Shurikone 2 (conical) burrs. I find the latter is better for dark, medium-dark and medium beans; that they are competitive but different for medium-light and light beans, and that the flat is much better for very light beans.
Thanks, Brian! Interesting take and competing arguments, while they're coming closer and sometimes difficult to tell apart, there's still clearly one better suited for dark roast and the other for light.
I currently have the first run of Shurikones in a Helor Flux and I think I might be getting even better performance than the same burrs in an MC5 🧐 maybe due to the ~15rpm slow feed way that I hand grind. Easily the best espresso hand grinder Ive used, probably the best ever conical espresso I’ve ever had. It almost seems to perform better and better as I go finer
Brian thanks for bringing us down the rabbithole with you. All things aside, did you ever consider a caffeine detox? (you seem awfully jittery here) / Much love
man, I would love if Denis would make a smaller and cheaper conical grinder using 63mm or even smaller burrs that would compete with the NZ, priced at around $1200 or so. I would buy that in a second
Why everybody is using conical for light roast and pour over when using a manual grinder? All are very happy but we are talking about flat for pour over. And the majority of the “espresso” grinder at coffee shops are flats. Even when many of them do dark. Honestly, I am super lost. Sorry and thanks for the video. Always helping
It's a lot harder to make a good flat burr hand grinder. The Pietro is the only one that isn't from 100 years ago and mounted to a table or wall. Flat burrs in commercial grinders might have more to do with other design constraints like durability.
Burr chasing is a bit much as by far the most important variable is the coffees being used. No burr swap will ever come close to matching a simple, but effective change in coffee. Indeed a sucker born every minute to part ways with $ for no practical reason.
Do you have any machining experience? Small shops with precision instruments usually have tighter tolerances because they don't do insanely high volumes that make QC a nightmare and they have an easier time catching issues early so they don't lead to tolerance creep. Look at companies like Mahlkönig that to much much higher volumes and have abysmal QC. Watching their production setup over the last few videos, they seem to have a solid system in place to make sure their tolerances are as tight as possible.
extreme ūm machining accuracy is always nice, but is there any benefit to the taste in cup? $250k roller mill grinders that have CPU particle control have far less tolerances than these yet can give you various particle distributions and taste in cup. I'd recommend not getting hung up on tolerances.
@@kuricat8783 As Ernesto Illy would say, the fracture mechanics involved in a coffee bean definitely vary and regardless of grinder tolerance the ultimate end result is still somewhat unpredictable.
I have a Monolith Flat (not a Max) with Shuriken LM (flat) burrs, and I recently added an MC6 with Shurikone 2 (conical) burrs. I find the latter is better for dark, medium-dark and medium beans; that they are competitive but different for medium-light and light beans, and that the flat is much better for very light beans.
Very interesting q & a. Thanks very much from someone in search of dark roast espresso grinder. ❤
Thanks, Brian! Interesting take and competing arguments, while they're coming closer and sometimes difficult to tell apart, there's still clearly one better suited for dark roast and the other for light.
I’ve had my MAX for almost 5 years. It’s amazing.
Very helpful for me. Love this.
Good stuff, fun and informative, nicely done
I currently have the first run of Shurikones in a Helor Flux and I think I might be getting even better performance than the same burrs in an MC5 🧐 maybe due to the ~15rpm slow feed way that I hand grind. Easily the best espresso hand grinder Ive used, probably the best ever conical espresso I’ve ever had. It almost seems to perform better and better as I go finer
Brian thanks for bringing us down the rabbithole with you. All things aside, did you ever consider a caffeine detox? (you seem awfully jittery here) / Much love
man, I would love if Denis would make a smaller and cheaper conical grinder using 63mm or even smaller burrs that would compete with the NZ, priced at around $1200 or so. I would buy that in a second
When will we find out “whats under the cloth” 🤔
What do you want it to be?
@@R.K2424
I guess a dedicated brew grinder.
Why everybody is using conical for light roast and pour over when using a manual grinder? All are very happy but we are talking about flat for pour over. And the majority of the “espresso” grinder at coffee shops are flats. Even when many of them do dark. Honestly, I am super lost. Sorry and thanks for the video. Always helping
It's a lot harder to make a good flat burr hand grinder. The Pietro is the only one that isn't from 100 years ago and mounted to a table or wall. Flat burrs in commercial grinders might have more to do with other design constraints like durability.
Burr chasing is a bit much as by far the most important variable is the coffees being used. No burr swap will ever come close to matching a simple, but effective change in coffee. Indeed a sucker born every minute to part ways with $ for no practical reason.
Imagine there is a grinder that do both at the same time
Is my 80+mm flat burr Ceado 37S the wrong thing to use for dark roast espresso grinds?
First
I really want to like Kafatek but there is no chance they get the tolerances down to an acceptable level, as a tiny basement company
Do you have any machining experience? Small shops with precision instruments usually have tighter tolerances because they don't do insanely high volumes that make QC a nightmare and they have an easier time catching issues early so they don't lead to tolerance creep.
Look at companies like Mahlkönig that to much much higher volumes and have abysmal QC.
Watching their production setup over the last few videos, they seem to have a solid system in place to make sure their tolerances are as tight as possible.
extreme ūm machining accuracy is always nice, but is there any benefit to the taste in cup? $250k roller mill grinders that have CPU particle control have far less tolerances than these yet can give you various particle distributions and taste in cup. I'd recommend not getting hung up on tolerances.
I agree with @DamnZodiak. Quality and tolerances will likely be better in a small shop.
@@kuricat8783 I recommend getting a $250k roller mill for the home ❤ by the way that’s a totally different system than a pair of flats
@@kuricat8783 As Ernesto Illy would say, the fracture mechanics involved in a coffee bean definitely vary and regardless of grinder tolerance the ultimate end result is still somewhat unpredictable.