Synthesizers - Ring Modulation vs. Amplitude Modulation

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 131

  • @GabrielPerboni
    @GabrielPerboni 4 ปีที่แล้ว +101

    I love when people talk about synthesizers and actually explain what is happening instead of just using words like warm sounding, edgy, lush, etc. I hope to see more technical explanations from you, maybe a series about filters? Once again, very good job… Sorry about the broken English

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks, I want to expand this series and compare a number of other things. I was thinking about doing something about filters, probably do some other modulations first though.

    • @GabrielPerboni
      @GabrielPerboni 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic Give NI's Kontour a look then, it's a very "elegant" combination of filters. BTW: Have you tried the CZ7 from Arturia? If so, how does it compare withe the real thing?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@GabrielPerboni Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I've not tried any virtual CZs but I would expect them to be pretty good.

    • @Vospi
      @Vospi ปีที่แล้ว

      Share your sentiment for years, extremely so.

  • @oaueo
    @oaueo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Thank you so much for this! Took an entire graduate school course on this this semester and just now understood it for the first time thanks to you. You're an excellent teacher, can't thank you enough.

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi, Thanks for taking the time to let me know. It's good to hear it's helping people. You may also find this one useful, if you haven't seen it already. th-cam.com/video/z9SqHDONrmY/w-d-xo.html "Frequency Modulation vs. Ring Modulation".

  • @PeteBuchwald
    @PeteBuchwald 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great visiual representation, and audio demonstration. Helpful and interesting! Thanks.

  • @CypiXmusic
    @CypiXmusic 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Love the technical rundown, always good!

  • @drewfasa
    @drewfasa 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Best explanation I’ve seen on the topic after searching extensively. Figures it would be a Brit - God’s great communicators! Appreciate this - thanks!

  • @AnthonyCammarota
    @AnthonyCammarota 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thoroughly explained and articulated very well. Thanks!

  • @BTsMusicChannel
    @BTsMusicChannel 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Excellent vid!!! I've been a musician all my life, mostly playing stringed instruments, but love all sorts of noise makers. Perhaps the most interesting element of sound is timbre (a.k.a. "tone" in the guitar community). My approach to making sounds has always been just through experimentation with playing techniques -- physical and electronics -- that becomes a sort of "craft" (structured but non-theorized methodology, as in I remember how to "press this button and get a banana") that I can consistently rely upon for the purposes of "art" (expression of meaning through representation). I recently started messing with analog synthesizers, and trying to learn the science behind the sounds. Videos like this -- with the diagrams accompanying explanation & practical experiments with oscilloscope visualizing the sonic data -- are very helpful as I read about these concepts. Thank you for helping me learn the science, which will allow me to predict what will happen even before I even pick up an instrument!!!

  • @philekiert1251
    @philekiert1251 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Glad to see the Cool Edit Pro 2 love on that taskbar.

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Never ceases to be useful!

    • @philekiert1251
      @philekiert1251 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@RunningonairMusic Still such a great tool, not least because it's so old now that it's lightning fast on modern hardware! I've noticed the noise reduction (the one that uses profiles) crashes on me from time to time, no idea when it started, possibly Windows 10. Big shot in the dark here, but I don't suppose you've run into the same issue?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I've not used that feature for a while, so couldn't say.

  • @youjuhwan9697
    @youjuhwan9697 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Best Explanation video of Ring Modulation ever. I always thought just making tremolo faster to audible level is Ring Modulation but i was wrong!! thank you for this video.

  • @tobyzxcd
    @tobyzxcd 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is such a good video- I hope there is a series :)

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks, this one might also be of interest: th-cam.com/video/z9SqHDONrmY/w-d-xo.html

  • @Sammy-B
    @Sammy-B 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Synth based ASMR. Soothing.

  • @sekritskworl-sekrit_studios
    @sekritskworl-sekrit_studios 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you SO very MUCH! I don't understand the math (yet). But knowing the general principles right now is enough to point me in the right direction.

  • @huntergalloway3944
    @huntergalloway3944 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Man, I hope your channel blows up. You’re an incredible teacher!
    BTW I’m about to pick up a Yamaha SY-77, I know the floppies often die but is there anything else crucial I should check for? I’m asking because I saw you’d recently gotten one yourself! Such an underrated board!

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks! that's really encouraging.
      I was lucky when I got me Sy77 because the previous owner had just serviced it. I've not opened mine, but going on a few restoration videos, there's quite a bit of electronics in there and you probably want to avoid having to fix stuff. So, check the display and sound outputs, test the buttons etc, just run through as much physical functions as possible. BTW when floppies die it's often just an internal belt and reasonably easy to fix, although you do have to get access to it, which might be a bigger issue. Hope that helps.

  • @dormaettu302
    @dormaettu302 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks, and the first track bangs !

  • @yony_music
    @yony_music 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This was awesome! Now I finally understand ringmodulation!

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks for the feedback.

    • @tbag419
      @tbag419 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ive got a ring modulation fx on my sp404 sampler. Ive heard of ring modulation and been watching endless videos to try to undetstand it. Hopefully this is the video

    • @tbag419
      @tbag419 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yep! thanks this was the video i was looking for. Explains a load thank you

  • @battlemode
    @battlemode 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Fantastic video, really helpful, thank you!

  • @christopher_ecclestone
    @christopher_ecclestone 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you!
    This is the best explanation of ring modulation I've found. It actually makes sense now!

  • @melasonos6132
    @melasonos6132 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Oh man, IO appreciate your work! Thank yoooooouuu!

  • @camerong5661
    @camerong5661 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This really helped me understand RM!! Thank you so much!!!

  • @derekholland3328
    @derekholland3328 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    awesome demonstration..thanks

  • @nodfactor8808
    @nodfactor8808 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great explanation! Much appreciated!

  • @endorphinsmusic
    @endorphinsmusic 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just what I wanted to know, thanks for the clear explanation!

  • @astrariumrecords9659
    @astrariumrecords9659 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    understood, thanks for making this clear

  • @GavinskisTutorials
    @GavinskisTutorials 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice and clear, thanks a lot, like the outro track too

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks, ive got a growing play list of tracks which might be worth checking out if you haven't already.

    • @GavinskisTutorials
      @GavinskisTutorials 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Runningonair Yes, I’ve subscribed. I’m hoping your series on Phase Distortion will help me understand the iOS synth ‘Shockwave’ better

  • @gumdr0p
    @gumdr0p 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    very nice! i understand it better than ever.

  • @maizetoken377
    @maizetoken377 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks for this video! It answered many of my questions.
    There’s one element I can’t wrap my head around though: the precise reason that multiplying two waves produces the sum and difference of those waves’ frequencies. I am assuming that the reason two waves of the same frequency will produce double that frequency under ring modulation is because the period of the modulator wave is half as long (because any negative values are flipped to the positive side). Is that correct?
    And if so, why is a difference tone also produced?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm not sure I can answer why. It just does. What you could try is to draw the values out on paper, maybe that will help.

  • @ivanestades5903
    @ivanestades5903 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you good sir!

  • @sumchi3690
    @sumchi3690 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice explanation ty

  • @Thoracius
    @Thoracius 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Any ideas why the ring modulator on the Monologue/Minilogue sounds quite a bit more beefy than the ring modulator on digital synths? Very noticeable different between my Minilogue and my HydraSynth, for instance, with the KORG sounding 10x better.

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm not familiar with the hydrasynth but my guess would be that it's just the character of the synths essentially. There is all of the little variations you get in analogue, so maybe something there.

    • @Thoracius
      @Thoracius 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic My guess is that an analog ring modulator is not 100% mathematically correct but the "error" makes it sound better.

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, essentially distortion.

  • @oupahens9219
    @oupahens9219 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Is that how it would work on your D50 there in the background as well?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yep, it's the same on everything.

  • @Yonikaii
    @Yonikaii 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very useful! Many thanks!

  • @kmilamv
    @kmilamv 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    thanks for this!

  • @jomorkenstrseth3526
    @jomorkenstrseth3526 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I was recemtly using a module called an attenuverter. It can attenuate and amplify,but you also have the option to bias the signal to either positive or negative, inverting it. If I add one V bias to my signal I am essentially amplitude modulating it, or have I misunderstood?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm not familiar with the module but it does sound like how a ring modulator works. Does the modulation work at audio frequencies or just slower control speeds?

  • @jorgealbertocevallosmartin5411
    @jorgealbertocevallosmartin5411 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi greetings from Mexico (sorry the bad english) can u recomend some tool for graphics like the ones in the video? Im loking for something fast to use, educational purposes. Great video by the way :DD

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks, no i don't have any recommendations. I would suggest a general internet search.

  • @YasserAbdelmonsef
    @YasserAbdelmonsef 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Please , what is the oscilloscope software?
    Great video indeed

  • @Seanrayamusic
    @Seanrayamusic 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great lesson!

  • @bunnface9511
    @bunnface9511 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:55 so it uses amplitude modulation + the phase shift that ocurres in negative values for the modulator ''changing the phase 180º from the carrier'' right?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Essentially yes, although I find it easier to think of it as a waveform inversion and amplitude modulation that works both positively and negatively.

    • @bunnface9511
      @bunnface9511 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RunningonairMusic then i don't understand why i find allot of people telling something like this : the input levels of the carrier and modulation signals are balanced such that the original carrier and modulation frequencies disappear totally from the output, leaving only the sum and difference frequencies.
      A ring modulator multiplies two signals together to create two brand-new frequencies which are the sum and difference of the input frequencies
      But i also found some others explaining this thing that you just explained, so i'm a bit confused,a re there 2 ways of creating ring modulation?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi, no there's only one way. Check out my second video on the subject.
      th-cam.com/video/z9SqHDONrmY/w-d-xo.html
      I do few more experiments with ring mod in this that might help. Do you have any links for the "balance" explanation? I'd need to see the full content, before making any judgement on it.

    • @bunnface9511
      @bunnface9511 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic Yes
      synthesizeracademy.com/ring-modulator/
      electronicmusic.fandom.com/wiki/Ring_modulation
      th-cam.com/video/8vhdkyEW5As/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AudioCollege
      They talk about this math thing from sum and diference that i told you. i Know that ring modulation from serum does what you explain in this video but i see a lot of pages that talk about the same think as this links

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Your response got "held for review" and I didn't see it. I didn't see any major issues with the material. I think it's just a matter of "turn of phrase" as opposed to a radically different theory.

  • @DruiiChannel
    @DruiiChannel ปีที่แล้ว

    So I've tried it in few digital synths to modulate the volume of a carrier with output, or an LFO, and I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong but that central carrier freq disappears.
    When the freqs begin to split, I am no longer getting the original carrier freq.
    It only persists, if I set the modulator to affect the carier by

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  ปีที่แล้ว

      Without seeing what you're doing, it's hard to say why that would be the case. The symptoms you describe don't really fit amplitude modulation or Ring modulation fully. Are you using a scope to see the result or just listening?

  • @MYGAS21
    @MYGAS21 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for your informative video. I play guitar and I am fascinated by the ringmodulator effect. I understand I think the concept of the two sidebands one as the sum and the other as the difference. What I don't understand is what exactly is happening when I tune the internal modulator to a certain note of my guitars' carrier signal. How is this possible?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  ปีที่แล้ว

      If you want to tune the modulator to something, then the best way is to disable the ring modulation, tune, then re-enable it.

    • @MYGAS21
      @MYGAS21 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic Thank you for the response. No problem with tuning it. The problem I have is understand what is happening when I tune it since both the original signals are lost. In other words when and how the sidebands coincide with the carrier guitar signal.

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  ปีที่แล้ว

      Well from a creative point of view, you are better off just experimenting to find something you like. RM by its nature tends to be dissonant and difficult to predict.

    • @MYGAS21
      @MYGAS21 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic That's where my question comes from....happy accidents. And according to what I've found accidentally, I feel the need to understand the kind of frequency the modulator is, when the output coincides somehow with the carrier (that we consider as "tuned"), when we know that R Modulations' output are ONLY the sidebands. I hope I expressed somewhat better my question.

  • @bcraigcraig4796
    @bcraigcraig4796 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a question how can I use a field recording of water audio to modulate a another audio signal trying to create a ever evolving movement to a static audio signal ?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi, Interesting question. I guess you want to imprint the sonic texture of the water sound onto something else? I'd suggest two possible solutions, first you could try a vocoder or other vocal processor using the water as the modulator. That would imprint both the dynamic and frequency spectrum onto the carrier sound. You could also use an envelope follower to capture the water dynamics and then use the output to modulate a VCA with the carrier. I think the vocoder is more likely to work. A much more simple solution would be to just mix the water sound into your track, that might be the most effective in the end. hope that helps.

    • @bcraigcraig4796
      @bcraigcraig4796 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RunningonairMusic Hi thanks here is what I got a a rain storm and wind type of sound bed scene and I want to take the rain ,and wind modulate a static drone to create movement when You can would You do a video on this I will very appreciate that Thanks

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's a great idea for a video! Let Me check what i have that could help.

  • @squishmusic
    @squishmusic 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So the Monologue can do RM, AM and...FM? :)

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No, just ring modulation. I used another synth to test the AM.

  • @mathias841
    @mathias841 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Didn't understand the link between the theory and the application of the ring modulation :/

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi, It's getting a bit old now and I'd probably make it a lot clearer if I was to remake it. This covers similar territory, is more recent and may help th-cam.com/video/z9SqHDONrmY/w-d-xo.html

    • @Vospi
      @Vospi 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Ring mod /AM that are done fast create new timbres when you need them. If it's not static, it can be quite interesting, because it doesn't have to be "harmonic". One could envelope it in just to create an interesting head or tail in a synth sound.
      Another popular application is a "ringmod sidechain". It creates a perfect "cancel signal" that allows you to fit one wave "into another". Works quite well, although produces quite a lot of artifacts sometimes.

  • @EthanRMus
    @EthanRMus 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video! Question, so when people say that ring modulation is just really fast tremolo, that is incorrect because tremolo is amplitude modulation which maintains the fundamental pitch while ring modulation does not?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes that's right!

    • @EthanRMus
      @EthanRMus 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@RunningonairMusic Hey there! Rewatching this video today to review and had another question if you get a chance! This might be a bit more of a general electronics question, but I am very confused by the idea of negative voltages such as shown here. It took me a very long time to finally realize that graphs of actual sound waves in the air use the 0 point to refer to the standing rooms atmospheric pressure, so general sound wave graphs show the compression and decompression of air molecules relative to the given ar pressure. I still dont understand this in regards to electricity though and an AC of analog audio signals. What is the 0 point here? Thanks in advance if you find the time to respond!

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Imagine having a 20 volt power supply with a 20 volt connection and a 0 volt connection. Now we add a third connection in the middle which would naturally be 10 volts. Now we are going to rename the terminals so that they look 10 volts less each. 20 volt becomes 10 volt, 10 becomes 0 volt. So what should 0 volt be? Well, 10 less so minus 10 volt. So essentially we choose the numbers that we use.

    • @EthanRMus
      @EthanRMus 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RunningonairMusic Thanks for the reply! So that makes it sound like depending on the context '0V' could specify a number of different things?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's a reference point for all other voltages. The other important thing is that it is generally connected to ground. If you want to know more I would suggest looking for videos on electricity and then electronics. That should clarify things further.

  • @jakubrojek3531
    @jakubrojek3531 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great vid! If we can modulate in two different ranges. Would you say that the first type (envelop shaper) was a modulation by a control rate as opposed to another oscillator by (audio rate)?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi, I had to re-watch the video to work out what you meant :-) . Yes that's an important point. Any modulator that works at sub audio frequencies will have minimal effect generating additional tones and that makes sense when you do the maths too. So an LFO running at 1Hz modulating a 100Hz signal should generate sum and difference tones of 99Hz and 101Hz, but that's so close to the original 100Hz, you don't really notice it.

    • @jakubrojek3652
      @jakubrojek3652 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic Thank you! Another thing that does not let me sleep is why only QAM is the only modulation in which both AM and FM happen simultaneously? I read an article about quadrature modulation, but don't understand why wouldn't it happen always since every signal intrinsically has these two parameters (amplitude, frequency).

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jakubrojek3652 I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but this video might help th-cam.com/video/z9SqHDONrmY/w-d-xo.html

  • @sekritskworl-sekrit_studios
    @sekritskworl-sekrit_studios 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sooo... what is a "Carrier"? I attempted to search your channel for a definition but it doesn't seem to be covered. :-(

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the feedback. In terms of waveforms interacting, the carrier is the one being affected and the modulator is the one affecting it.

  • @andrifreyr7897
    @andrifreyr7897 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brilliant👌👌

  • @markaprill6501
    @markaprill6501 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The best way to figure out effects is to play the knobs and listen. After that you can look into the theory.

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Theory helps you predict the effect of each control. I would say the best approach is to do both together.

  • @LloydVaan
    @LloydVaan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    whats the track of the beginnig called?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi, It's called "CeZ1um 133" (see what I did there :-) ). It'll be released next year on a new album called "BAU" (probably). In the mean time, you can check out some of my other stuff here: runningonair.bandcamp.com/
      Thanks for asking!

    • @LloydVaan
      @LloydVaan 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RunningonairMusic great thank you! let me know when its out

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@LloydVaan in case I forget, if you do a follow on bandcamp, you'll get a notification. Thanks for the interest.

  • @maliciamalicia6702
    @maliciamalicia6702 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How to thank you!

  • @pubdigitalix
    @pubdigitalix ปีที่แล้ว

    Have you ever heard of through zero VCA?

    • @RunningonairMusic
      @RunningonairMusic  ปีที่แล้ว

      I think you mean through zero? yes I have. It's normally associated with VCOs, but a through zero VCA would be a ring modulator.

    • @pubdigitalix
      @pubdigitalix ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RunningonairMusic I'm sorry. English is not my birth language. I already corrected the error. The question is related to the term "Amplitude Modulation" being misused in the context of Voltage Controlled Amplifier because when i studied electronic engineering at the university, amplitude modulation had no restrictions regarded the dc component of the modulation signal. If you have a modulation index greater than 1 (overmodulation) you have a phase inversion like you show in ring modulation, undesirable in communications but clearly useful for audio applications.