Honda people; With first hand experience, what rpm are you running your k24 to and for how long before the rods come out, on stock bottom end? Also, yes the amount of dyno runs in this video is slightly punishing..
you can get a 50deg wheel from speedscience or honda - my type r engine has them - and for max rpm - its the oil pump thats the limiter - rods and pistons will do 8500 from what ive seen on youtube - BUT the oil pump in the k24 with the balance shafts is the bit that craps out big time - like 8k rpm is making it work too hard and ill die sooner than later - lots of good info on the forums or googling for it and boostedboiz youtube has epic amounts of build info on k20 / k24's and pushing the limits to destruction for them - how hard are you going to push it ? :) (edit) DANG theres some awesome info in these replies from everyone else!!!!
At 7800 rpm piston speed is same as on f1 engine spinning to 18000rpm. So if you wanna be safe dont go over that. I have never seen engin fail at 7800rpm
Just wanted to say thanks for the content you put out. No frills, just straight up tuning, testing parts. Seeing what works and what doesn't. Keep it up.
Be very careful reving over about 6500 rpm or so without vtec engaged. The vtec reteiner spring are not meant for controlling the middle rocker at high rev ranges. On B series they can hit the valevspring reteiners and ruin the complete engine if reved high without vtec engaged. Not 100% sure on k series but I treat them the same way.
Great honda content..love it.. especialy the k series is a endless pit of trial and error.. BTW i agree with J series..especialy J37 SOHC engine with vtec on both sides.. and high compression too.. unexplored serious NA power there
yeah, would be a matter of limiting the vtc pulley to right place. the amount of cam in it atm seems to be good for stock engine street car. will do a little work with some bolt on stuff, now the mechanical and tune issues have been sorted
I hope you get your hands on a b or f series with more aggressive pre vtec cam profiles and show the world the value of cam tuning. Everyone tunes for peak horsepower then wonder why they get a narrow power band.
I'm hoping it will respond well to the planned changes. which should allow to run the big cam profile much further down the rev rang and pump up the midrange more. its still kinda lazy below 5k
I have an ep3 and I absolutely love it man although it was a rough start since previous owner did poorly done maintenance, its still a fantastic car! But tbh in 3rd gear it starts to die (power wise) also needs the next gen transmission since the stock one has pretty long gears if the goal is to stay n/a
@@djpollo2474 My plan if i manage to get one is to keep it na for a while and go induction later. I like superchargers on high revving engines like the k20 but they make power easier with turbo. By the way how much do they sell a good used one in your country. Here in Greece 8000€ plus for a good one
water methanol spray is perfect for applications where pod filter gets hot air. It’s equivalent would be like having the filter outside the bonnet Then go a step further with straight methanol. use the largest nozzle. If your real keen have one nozzle tapped into each runner..that’s the most accurate. gains of 20kw can be had
Great channel thanks for documenting your work, I guess you have gone as far as you can with the 4age. I would love to see how far you can take a 4afe as they are cheap and plentiful and a few places are now making cams for them now. You could wack a FE head on the terd bottom end. I understand they respond well to turbocharging, But there's nothing quite like a NA pulling 10,000 rpm!
Another way you could quantify midrange power gain is an average over an RPM range. A somewhat objective to pick the RPM range could be: Take the shift point RPM (~8100) as the high end of the range. Divide the shift point RPM by the ratio of (1st gear / 2nd gear) to set the lower RPM limit for the range. This would approximate the RPM range used when accelerating through second gear.
Can I clarify a point - you modded the VTC for +10 degrees, and advanced the intake cam position +1 tooth on the chain (7.5x2deg)? Wouldnt that mean going from 0-25deg VTC range to 15-50 range?
Hey. would rather not name who did it. plus can never be sure if someone has played with the tune after the fact. my email is in the about section on my channel, re tuning.
just carefully with an angle grinder. people just throw a pin in the 50degree pulleys to limit them. which just floats around in there. so didn't feel the need to do anything too fancy.
I asked this question a lot of times over the years and I never get an answer, maybe you could help me. When they say 2013 Honda CRV makes 185 horse and 163 torque is that wheel or is that crank. Thank you for reply.
torque in the graph is actual wheel torque the dyno is reading. would be about 255nm at 6000rpm plus some drive line loss to get engine torque maybe 280-290ish at engine. engine spec is in description
Would be cool to see this but with a ajustable exhaust cam gear to see if theres any gain on torque or something, im planning to buy an ajustable exhaust cam gear but im not 100% sure how to play with it without damaging the engine
I looking for a better midrange, i have drop in cams and i lost midrange and im trying to see if playing with ajustable exhaust gear i can gain it back
@@kseriesjanjo2708 Cant move the power around as much with the exhaust cam as intake. but if its set wrong will be gains to be had. Most of the time its exhaust setup, headers and exhaust. if you drop a bunch of mid range going to bigger cam's. you can see in the other video's i picked up a bunch of midrange changing the exhaust setup. and some more changing the intake manifold. Also need a good tune to see the gains from these, since there is vct and vtec to play with, both need to be tuned to your setup
the numbers i used for the final setup are in the graph right at the end. I had the vct pulley skipped forward a tooth also. from memory thats another 15 degrees on top of those numbers
The timing marks were a bit wack on this engine. probably chain had stretched a bit. so was skipped foward a tooth along with the vct mod. from memory a tooth is 10 or 15 deg. was maxed out in terms of piston to valve clearance. short answer, yes more the better long as have clearance to do so.
k24. looks like they just swapped the whole long block in and added some cams and a few bolt ons. personally i probably would have just spent the money on the k20 type r engine. but something could have gone wrong with it i guess.
@@Garage4age why would you do that? K24 beats k20 all the time and on low end with same mods k24 will have 20-30hp more. I have made stock on my k24 cl9 190CHP and after Basic mods 255CHP. Now with custom intake and header goal is +265CHP at 7800rpm. K20 can only dream of that power wit this mods.
@@CL9k24a3 I mean for the money they spent on the swap, which was a lot. spending the money on the type r engine already in the car, to get to 170kw makes more sense. not saying anything bad about either engine. plus in my case im more interested in modifying things to get more power, rather than just adding more capacity
cant remember if was 4th or 5th, im leaning towards 5th. doesn't usually matter too much on a fwd box. rwd box with 1:1 gear shows more power in most cases
will kinda suck if its a street car with no low lobes and vct though. the vct would have a bigger advantage if revving higher also. power would likely hang on till 8500 with vct. fixed to 25 deg will start to fall over after peak. a better example of what vct/vvti can do, can be seen here th-cam.com/video/L2Sw-_J7uSc/w-d-xo.html
@Garage 4age fantastic idea. Honda forums have lots of posts discussing intake piping length (I.e. pre throttle), but I've never seen any scientific tests that also account for air temp or diameter.
Think, stock engine add say FBO more air more power AND you think it will last forever tell the engine to also hold more power an spin more rpms? Rather use common sense than "car knowledge bro crap" 😂 " Dog i been spinning my b16a to 8800 all day" where is it. It blew up not cause of that though im telling you!😂
Bro what are you babbling on about what you speak of is lack of supporty mods like balanced crank shaved rods ext arp head studs thing of that nature so you shit don't go boom at 8k😅
Honda people; With first hand experience, what rpm are you running your k24 to and for how long before the rods come out, on stock bottom end? Also, yes the amount of dyno runs in this video is slightly punishing..
Oem bottom end 7800-8000k rpm it will last forever. Highest we’ve set the limiter to is 8200 rpm. th-cam.com/video/DfiK2YH1MOs/w-d-xo.html
you can get a 50deg wheel from speedscience or honda - my type r engine has them - and for max rpm - its the oil pump thats the limiter - rods and pistons will do 8500 from what ive seen on youtube - BUT the oil pump in the k24 with the balance shafts is the bit that craps out big time - like 8k rpm is making it work too hard and ill die sooner than later - lots of good info on the forums or googling for it and boostedboiz youtube has epic amounts of build info on k20 / k24's and pushing the limits to destruction for them - how hard are you going to push it ? :) (edit) DANG theres some awesome info in these replies from everyone else!!!!
8k shift 8200 limiter still has rods after 14+ drag days
At 7800 rpm piston speed is same as on f1 engine spinning to 18000rpm. So if you wanna be safe dont go over that.
I have never seen engin fail at 7800rpm
@@cbdrift 50 on stock pistons and stage 2 cams may end with contact
Always love these hungry japanese engines.
If possible I wish for a comparison between a 4-1 and a 4-2-1 header
Thanks 👍🏻
& 4-2-2-1
Thanks for taking us along your journey. I don't know much about Honda, but it's interesting to learn.
Seriously one of the best, most informative channels. Have another full video view, comment, and like.
Just wanted to say thanks for the content you put out. No frills, just straight up tuning, testing parts. Seeing what works and what doesn't. Keep it up.
Started watching your channel for the sick hilux 4age now I'm stoked your posting honda content. Love the channel man!
Hooray ..more Honda videos
Wow you impress me everytime buddy keep the good work !
I love the K24 content. Great video, as always.
I bet that car feels transformed on the road.
Yeah it goes a whole lot better, with the extra power in the midrange
Be very careful reving over about 6500 rpm or so without vtec engaged. The vtec reteiner spring are not meant for controlling the middle rocker at high rev ranges. On B series they can hit the valevspring reteiners and ruin the complete engine if reved high without vtec engaged. Not 100% sure on k series but I treat them the same way.
I'm a b-series guy, but this is some good k-series tuning!
J Series please! Fantastic work btw. That's a beautiful power curve.
Woooo new car model 🎉🎉 congratulations
Great honda content..love it.. especialy the k series is a endless pit of trial and error..
BTW i agree with J series..especialy J37
SOHC engine with vtec on both sides.. and high compression too.. unexplored serious NA power there
in an answer as to why Variable cam timing is so awesome. Free midrange power
Great video !
K24 wants 40 degrees VTC when vtec is activated.
impressive numbers and good tuning skills.
It's pretty impressive even with VTEC off. Is there any clearance for bigger VTEC cam lobe?
yeah, would be a matter of limiting the vtc pulley to right place. the amount of cam in it atm seems to be good for stock engine street car. will do a little work with some bolt on stuff, now the mechanical and tune issues have been sorted
very impressive, clearly need more of this :D
Great content, I'd love to see the same test done on that K24 when it's turbocharged (hint hint)
impressive as always
I hope you get your hands on a b or f series with more aggressive pre vtec cam profiles and show the world the value of cam tuning. Everyone tunes for peak horsepower then wonder why they get a narrow power band.
I'm hoping it will respond well to the planned changes. which should allow to run the big cam profile much further down the rev rang and pump up the midrange more. its still kinda lazy below 5k
With 3 inch exhaust ported &polished rbc and better cai it will make more.Hopefully i'll get an ep3 this year
I have an ep3 and I absolutely love it man although it was a rough start since previous owner did poorly done maintenance, its still a fantastic car! But tbh in 3rd gear it starts to die (power wise) also needs the next gen transmission since the stock one has pretty long gears if the goal is to stay n/a
@@djpollo2474 My plan if i manage to get one is to keep it na for a while and go induction later. I like superchargers on high revving engines like the k20 but they make power easier with turbo. By the way how much do they sell a good used one in your country. Here in Greece 8000€ plus for a good one
Doing some dyno pulls this morning i hear? 😂 Look forward to the new update.
water methanol spray is perfect for applications where pod filter gets hot air. It’s equivalent would be like having the filter outside the bonnet
Then go a step further with straight methanol. use the largest nozzle.
If your real keen have one nozzle tapped into each runner..that’s the most accurate. gains of 20kw can be had
Awesome informative vid thanks
Cool bro super like👍
The owner will have a happy face every time when will push the pedal
Great channel thanks for documenting your work, I guess you have gone as far as you can with the 4age. I would love to see how far you can take a 4afe as they are cheap and plentiful and a few places are now making cams for them now. You could wack a FE head on the terd bottom end. I understand they respond well to turbocharging, But there's nothing quite like a NA pulling 10,000 rpm!
Another way you could quantify midrange power gain is an average over an RPM range.
A somewhat objective to pick the RPM range could be:
Take the shift point RPM (~8100) as the high end of the range. Divide the shift point RPM by the ratio of (1st gear / 2nd gear) to set the lower RPM limit for the range. This would approximate the RPM range used when accelerating through second gear.
Yeah im all about the over all gain rather than just peak numbers !
Garage Honda FTW! 🥰
@Garage 4age can you guys do some 1zz fe and 2zzge stuff I have a corolla and I wanna find a good cam combo
Great video! Is it possible to make video for 2zz MR2 people?
keep the good work!
Nice work 😎
Peak torque by 2400rpm is going to make it a nice street car.
Can I clarify a point - you modded the VTC for +10 degrees, and advanced the intake cam position +1 tooth on the chain (7.5x2deg)? Wouldnt that mean going from 0-25deg VTC range to 15-50 range?
Yeah sounds about right. I think the chain was a bit stretched on this engine so could have been 10-45 or something
Who did the first tune?
Would love to bring my kswapped s2000 over for a tickle up, where are you based?
Hey. would rather not name who did it. plus can never be sure if someone has played with the tune after the fact. my email is in the about section on my channel, re tuning.
Hey awesome video, what did you use ro trim the vtc?
just carefully with an angle grinder. people just throw a pin in the 50degree pulleys to limit them. which just floats around in there. so didn't feel the need to do anything too fancy.
u should make a video of ported cylinder head vs stock port
How to understand VTC 10? Its intake cam advance by 10 degree? Or both cams or what?
they only have it on the intake cam. exhaust is fixed. 0 is fully retarded. 35 is fully advanced.
I asked this question a lot of times over the years and I never get an answer, maybe you could help me. When they say 2013 Honda CRV makes 185 horse and 163 torque is that wheel or is that crank. Thank you for reply.
manufacturers use crank hp and torque.
@@Garage4age that’s what I thought cool . Thank you.
damm,your'e good man
So cool
Is this a stock k24? And is that 350nm?
And just gave it 10 deg more on the vtc wheel for the power gain?
torque in the graph is actual wheel torque the dyno is reading. would be about 255nm at 6000rpm plus some drive line loss to get engine torque maybe 280-290ish at engine. engine spec is in description
@Garage4age damn that's a really nice amount of power , great video. thanks for sharing
Where are you based? I've got a mk3 supra that will need a tune in a fue weeks link g4 xtreme 1jz
hey, email or dm me on Instagram. email is in "about" on my channel page
previous best was last video right. 180kws is slouch .. specially with that torque band ... reminds me of bbc with there torque
Atm its like making 120kw with a 4age. capacity doesn't quite scale up like that. but yeah has a long way to go.
@@Garage4age sorry ment no slouch
Would be cool to see this but with a ajustable exhaust cam gear to see if theres any gain on torque or something, im planning to buy an ajustable exhaust cam gear but im not 100% sure how to play with it without damaging the engine
I looking for a better midrange, i have drop in cams and i lost midrange and im trying to see if playing with ajustable exhaust gear i can gain it back
@@kseriesjanjo2708 Cant move the power around as much with the exhaust cam as intake. but if its set wrong will be gains to be had. Most of the time its exhaust setup, headers and exhaust. if you drop a bunch of mid range going to bigger cam's. you can see in the other video's i picked up a bunch of midrange changing the exhaust setup. and some more changing the intake manifold. Also need a good tune to see the gains from these, since there is vct and vtec to play with, both need to be tuned to your setup
"Garage" hahaha. Congrats, I dont think a youtube video has ever made me laugh in the first 0.5 seconds of the video before.
Please can you test 4-2-1 Vs 4-1 manifold? X
Dyno test with the air filter pointing outward
Was thinking about doing one testing different length intake tubes. snorkel out the bonnet so the bbq intake doesn't effect results
@@Garage4age Fresh air always give some horsepower
Do you tappered down vtc as rpm increase?
yeah, the numbers are in the graph at end of video.
So your best run was 35 degrees before vtec?
the numbers i used for the final setup are in the graph right at the end. I had the vct pulley skipped forward a tooth also. from memory thats another 15 degrees on top of those numbers
Is there no advantage going 40 or 45 degrees?
The timing marks were a bit wack on this engine. probably chain had stretched a bit. so was skipped foward a tooth along with the vct mod. from memory a tooth is 10 or 15 deg. was maxed out in terms of piston to valve clearance. short answer, yes more the better long as have clearance to do so.
Afr? 4000 and 8000rmp
Is it running a k20A type r head if not your wasting your time
k24. looks like they just swapped the whole long block in and added some cams and a few bolt ons. personally i probably would have just spent the money on the k20 type r engine. but something could have gone wrong with it i guess.
you are miss informed... Stock head flow is 290-295cfm and RSP head is 315cfm. Stock head is plenty good.
@@Garage4age why would you do that? K24 beats k20 all the time and on low end with same mods k24 will have 20-30hp more. I have made stock on my k24 cl9 190CHP and after Basic mods 255CHP. Now with custom intake and header goal is +265CHP at 7800rpm. K20 can only dream of that power wit this mods.
@@CL9k24a3 I mean for the money they spent on the swap, which was a lot. spending the money on the type r engine already in the car, to get to 170kw makes more sense. not saying anything bad about either engine. plus in my case im more interested in modifying things to get more power, rather than just adding more capacity
Average power ftw. Well done.
Do you offer remote tuning?
not anymore sorry, some of its easy enough to get dialed in remotely. some not so much. so only do dyno tunes where i can get everything 100%
What are those yellow and green numbers at the squares?
In the graph at the end? They are the cam timing numbers
But how they vary ?..except for the vtec area
@@jsn149 They are in reference to the rpm at top of graph
@@Garage4age alright thanks
im trying to figure out if i need 2hp................
A wise person wouldn't only look at the peak power
Sad for the hot air intake..
Is this in 4th gear?
cant remember if was 4th or 5th, im leaning towards 5th. doesn't usually matter too much on a fwd box. rwd box with 1:1 gear shows more power in most cases
@@Garage4age thank you, your video was ver informative
So...basically just build a cheap vtec killer setup and run a fixed 25deg gear, eliminate all the vtc and vtec?
Win.
will kinda suck if its a street car with no low lobes and vct though. the vct would have a bigger advantage if revving higher also. power would likely hang on till 8500 with vct. fixed to 25 deg will start to fall over after peak. a better example of what vct/vvti can do, can be seen here th-cam.com/video/L2Sw-_J7uSc/w-d-xo.html
Poor car is begging for a proper cold air intake rather than the heatsoak filter it's got
could do a vid testing different length intake tubes, snorkels out the bonnet for a fair test.
@Garage 4age fantastic idea. Honda forums have lots of posts discussing intake piping length (I.e. pre throttle), but I've never seen any scientific tests that also account for air temp or diameter.
garage honda XD
This is a really flat torque curve absolut madness from a 20 plus year old engine.
This with K20 head = over 300hp.
No. Just 10hp more
Think, stock engine add say FBO more air more power AND you think it will last forever tell the engine to also hold more power an spin more rpms? Rather use common sense than "car knowledge bro crap" 😂 " Dog i been spinning my b16a to 8800 all day" where is it. It blew up not cause of that though im telling you!😂
Bro what are you babbling on about what you speak of is lack of supporty mods like balanced crank shaved rods ext arp head studs thing of that nature so you shit don't go boom at 8k😅
Toyota traitor 😂
haha, don't worry they will be back!
What is your email address? Very informative video.
😅😅 ain't got shit on a Toyota ay 😂
ain't no 3y thats for sure
@@Garage4age 🤣🤣🤣