I don't think that part is true because the source of the veil is clearly above the tree. No signs of perking up on 6 other points. There's just one point .Besides tarnished archeologist pretty much uncovers what the towers are for and it has nothing to do with Marika, they're much older than say Farum Azula in iconography only fitting the broken architecture all over the map specifically the one from Radahn's battle arena, the cliffs which appear to be the same society that built the forge, the colossal giants.
@@robertwalton434 Weeping Peninsula is still inside on Limgrave, like Mt. Gelmir is part of Altus. The thing is that Limgrave, being the first area, doesn't have a lot on the surface. EDIT: I misread. My apologies.
Of course Weeping Peninsula is part of Limgrave. Even the artstyle tell us that at first glance. People who brags they're different regions are probably the same saying Dio Brando and DIO are two different characters... (also, a DLC the size of West and East Limgrave would have been a bit small honestly...)
Also to add, in the trailer, the Land of Shadow shares the same moon that’s visible in Liurnia. Another thing I noticed…in The Lands Between…the Erdtree we see is very translucent and look like a projection. I believe the Erdtree we see in the Land of Shadows, covered by the massive drapes, is the current, real state of the Erdtree.
I think the Shadow tree is a different one that maybe was initially intended to be the Erdtree. But then it was later burned or strangled by a different tree, and the only thing that remained from its initial form is the golden sap sips from it. I think the Erdtree we see today in the lands between is a projection of a different tree, which its roots are now found in the various catacombs we find throughout the game.
you can kind of see the real state of the erdtree when you get up close to it. it's just kind of burned into a stump now, and the projection is what it used to look like
@@Tulip_bipalso, if it's actually almost burned down to a stump, there's a good possibility that it might be the reason that so many Crucible like things are rearing their heads in the modern Lands Between. The statue iconography of the Erdtree being cultivated from a stump is very similar to the real life practice of trimming back all but the desired sprout from the stump of a living tree; so that sprout can grow into a full tree without competition. Presumably, the stump of the Great Tree is analogous to the original Crucible-with no defining features to distinguish one thing from another (trunk, branches, leaves, and so on)-and, since Misbegotten, Omens, and other Crucible era creatures seem to be on the rise... It has a somewhat consistent logic to it. Now, I'm not saying I'm right. This is just unhinged speculation.
It's also worth mentioning that there is shadow leakage inside the Divine Towers. When taking the elevator upwards, one can observe small strips of black goo falling. This observation aligns well with the theory that these towers are responsible for maintaining the veil.
Strange as they are Farum Azula architecture. I spent way too much time analyzing the architecture in Elden Ring. Far too many pictures taken. Honestly, I wonder if they already existed but were apropriated for that later down the road. It's probably what happened.
I never liked the "cloud over ocean" theory because we don't need maps, you can go on the top of any divine tower and look out over the actual ocean and see nothing, you don't need the map. But if a concealing veil (Black Knife assassins can be 100% invisible, right?) is covering the whole center, then that's something else. Another thing that always bothered me is that if you telescope the Erdtree from Liurnia, it is ethereal and see through. But up close in Lyndell, it is solid. This could be an oversight in the game assets and artistic direction, or it could be a hint towards the illusory effects of the veil this whole time, which obviously only affect your line of sight when it is in the way
Golden Erdtree Is illusionary. It was burned away long ago (by Serpent/Messmer?), and age of Bounty ended with it, with tree incapable producing resurrective and healing blessings. But because it is magic tree, it left a "ghost". That is more symbol of worship nowadays.
But if the Erdtre is only a ghost tree now, why we are able to set it ablaze? Not only that, but the ashes from it are covering Lyndell, so it must be real. Most likely that the see through effect is something to do with tehnical limitations, a solid Erdtree might have had a lot of performance impact on the game engine.
I got chills when you said, "each tower holding up part of the veil." Even if it's in a more metaphysical sense than a visually perceptible one, that just makes so much sense
I like the idea of it being veiled. It just makes sense to me. It was just like with Radahn how a comet literally put a hole in the land to let you into Nokron.
@@DarknessIsTheTruth Mohg for access to Miquella's egg. But according to a recent interview witn Miyazaki Radahn is the Shardbearer whose death facilitates access to the Shadow DLC.
@@darklonewolf4519 watch the other videos on this channel he goes over the interview that says it. That is how you access the DLC but you need to have killed Radahn for it to work.
I 100% agree with this. Also if you look at the divine towers you see that half of them is covered in molten rock. Some thought that was from a meteorite falling to the lands between but not it might have been the fire of Messmer that melted the rock.
In the trailer we actually see a shot of a giant metal tube channeling lava somewhere. Could be the method they used to get all that molten rock on the outside of those towers.
@@HopeiThis also, within that same forge, there’s very conspicuous ornamentation on the architecture. Ancient design on the walls, possibly belonging to the culture/giants who created the divine towers from a forge. (Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong because a lot of the architecture in the Shadow Lands are completely unique designs not found in the Lands Between)
Is the lady in the painting Marika ? (in the trailer, next to the sitting balding man). Cause if it's the case, she seems to have a veil of some sort before her eyes.
I love the theory about the hidden landmass being the reason why you find similar monsters in Caelid and Mountaintops of the Giants. Even if this is not correct, it is such a great idea LOL
YES!!! After seeing what lore connections others had taken away from the reveal trailer, it feels like it lines up. The clothing of certain characters and bosses, the architecture, even the trees in certain parts of the trailer’s setting match up. The man in blue fits with the setting/hourglass figure of the Carian Divine Tower. The Dancing Lion boss has the omen horns and feet of Morgott (Stormveil Divine Tower). That giant Wicker Man field boss is described by Miyazaki as “previously a vicious war machine” which lines up with Caelid and the war that took place there. Messmer’s potential throne would line up with why Malenia’s (his sister) Divine Tower is located there. The deathblight swamp lines up with the Divine Tower of West Altus being directly under the Wormfaces and all of the deathroot…
The Divine towers holding up the veil is such an awesome idea, I was always under the impression that Farum Azula was there before it went into the sky though
The insane theory I found is that Farum Azula was in Radahn's arena, there're many dragons in there, there's Gurranq, there's the same architecture in Beast Sanctum, Caelid means "the heavens".
I think the whole ocean area, used to be a landmass, and farum azula was a part of what are now called that shadow lands. Whatever happened to the shadow lands, Farum Azula was dislodged (maybe by its own inhabitants?) From it. After all, farum azula is the land of the beastmen, and they are 'shadows' are they not?
@@briggy4359 agreed. Considering the architectural similarities between the Bestial Sanctum and the structures in Farum, plus the name of the bridge there it seems clear that Farum was located between the Mountaintops and Eastern Caelid but was dislodged some how. I think there are some images of the Shadow Land from the trailer that show buildings and rock floating upward exactly like in Farum as well, like Farum was detached before the Shadow Land was veiled. If that's true, it pretty much confirms this theory which, I think, fits anyway. Edit: the shot I'm thinking of is of the walled "city" that shows up around the 1 minute mark of the official trailer. Off in the background you can see the dark silhouette of debris falling UPWARD. And the city looks a lot like it has Farum Azula's architecture. And with Farum's ties to dragon worship and the crucible, it must have had a lot of cultural influence over the Shadow Lands, hence why we see so many creatures and images connected to the crucible in the trailer. I could always be wrong but it makes a lot of sense.
@@robadams1645 I just commented below, but yeah when you watch the trailer, the picture shown around the 1 minute, 9 seconds mark seems to be maybe a half of Farum Azula left behind. The architecture looks alike, and you can see a lot of debris floating upward in the background if you zoom in. I'm guessing Farum would have been right between Bestial Sanctum and the Mountaintops with the area in the trailer being a little more inland, now veiled.
Yo, it’s only been 2 days since the release date announcement. Be excited for sure, but go replay some other From Software games in the meantime (or whatever games you like). Mixing it up helps if you’re driving yourself mad waiting.
also didn't Miyazaki specifically mention something about General Radahn when talking about the dlc like he needed to be defeated. maybe he was involved in helping with the veil.
The theory of land connecting caelid and mountaintops also makes sense when you consider that caelid is the only other place on the map that has those massive giant skulls and other remains.
After playing the dlc now a bit and seeing the whole map for land of shadows I absolutely 💯 percent agree that it is veiled in the center area that's ocean in the lands between. It seemingly fits almost perfect with the lands contours it's insane!
Yup that's exactly what I thought when Miyazaki said it was hidden by the Erdtree. And this game, more than others, has been very literal in its symbolism. It has left little to the imagination at times lol.
Worth noting Castle Mourne is a castle sieged by Godfrey. The famous sword associated with it is the Grafted Blade. The Grafted Blade belonged to a man from a country which is said to have vanished. The grafted blade has a lion crest engraved on it too, and the only known lion crest in base game Elden Ring is Godfrey’s, but of course he sieged against the man who made the blade. This makes me think of the lion dancers from the dlc trailer who Miyazaki said are from a culture before the Erdtree. Castle Mourne is also home to many smoldering butterflies something which many equate with Messmer. It has a ton of banished knight equipment displayed there and the banished knights’ armor has many thorns upon it like the lion, as well as the dragon on the helmet like Messmer, and their red capes are like Messmer’s. Also in the back of Castle Mourne is that little grave island which could be just from the inhabitants who died either during the siege or during the misbegotten uprising, however I don’t think bodies from either fight would get proper burials let alone giant grave stones. However we do know there are lots of giant grave stones in the Shadow Lands. Edit: Godrick’s axe actually has the same lion crest on it as the grafted sword of Castle Morne. Also I spelled Morne wrong lol. Anyways the lion on there is specifically said to represent Godfrey! So I’m actually super confused about the grafted blade now because that was made explicitly by someone who was against Godfrey but apparently it has a crest representing Godfrey adorned on it???? I still think Castle Morne could be property of Messmer or some older civilization. The mention of the revenged being from a country now vanished is damning to me. But the lion crest is certainly damn confusing. My only guess would be that as a sign of victory the Grafted Blade had Godfrey’s crest attached to it post defeat of the Revenger? Not sure honestly.
These are some great ideas 🤌 Further to this, there's that large gravestone with a hole in the centre where you find it, same style as those shown in the Shadow realm. Plus the handle of the blade features a similar spiral design to the pillars seen throughout the trailer.
This has been a crucial part of my working theory since I saw the trailer. I think Messmer, or someone closely tied to him and his group, fought Godfrey at Castle Morne. I also think the shadow lands is actually the crucible. Due to the distinct growth of omen horns on certain beings and the seeming mashing together of principles and fundamental concepts, like how a crucible forges molten metals together to form new properties. Given Messmers serpent, flame and draconic iconography. I believe we will learn the truth of the old order before Marika which Messmer is tied to. I believe the Gloam Eyed Queen is the god Queen before Marika, and the true mother of Melina the inheritor of her will. I believe when Marika upended the lands between and forged her new order, the Gloam eyed queen fled to the shadow lands. Which explains the reason behind Placidusax’s god “fleeing” mysteriously. The serpent, the dragons, and the black flame order are all intertwined I believe, and most likely the giants and flame of ruin as well. My ultimate theory is the Gloam eyed queen entered the shadow lands, AKA the crucible to be “forged” anew. Which explains why Miquella would’ve gone here when he entered his egg state. He went to the crucible to be created into a higher being. Perhaps even an outer god. The Gloam eyed queen would have to be either the rot god or the formless mother. I believe given the tie to two in game Omens, the aspect of blood flame that their cursed blood possesses, and the extremely aggressive nature of the formless mother against the Erdtree and in forming her own order, as well as the title of “mother”. Something we hear Marika called frequently. I do think we are seeing the old order rise up with the destruction of the Golden order, and our Tarnished seeks not only to free Miquella from the formless mothers clutches, but stamp out the remnants of the old order, and leave no one to stifle the progress the tarnished themselves seek.
@@ira1420 There’s no definitive evidence he is their son. It’s entirely possible Radagon is a descendant of this order, and that’s why Marika felt she had to take him into herself. Perhaps he plays a role in the veil that divides the two realms. There’s not enough to say he’s Malenias other brother we hear nothing about and have zero in game clues of. Even Nameless King had contextual clues building him up..
If what you suggest is true then I have a few things to say. One, the DLC area would quite literally "the lands between" on account of being sandwiched between all the other regions of the map. Two, if the towers mark the boundary of that map, then that would make the Erdtree the sole point of overlap between the two realms. Wouldn't this mean that Marika, The Elden Beast, and The Elden Ring also exist at that spot in the Shadow realm? We already know that certain things and people can exist in both realms simultaneously. For instance, Miquella exists in both the outside world at Mohgs alter and in its shadow where he assumes his original form. We also know that in Miquella's case, the two bodies don't necessarily have to occupy the same space. With this in mind, I'd like to make a theory: I think that sometime before Radagon went to live with Renala, he went to the Shadow Erdtree while Marika stayed in the Light Erdtree. From there, the two established a sort of link between their bodies, perhaps by using the Elden Ring's Law of Convergence to some capacity. What you see then when Marika transforms is actually the two of their souls swapping placements with each other, so when Marika is in the realm of light then Radagon is in the Realm of Shadow and so on. It's possible Miquella and St. Trina had a similar thing going on. The body on that alter might actually be her, swapped in place of Miquella at the last second only to meet a gruesome fate.
You have given meaning to the “lazy recycling” of the Mountaintop of Giants. I was always intrigued by that. Considering in the rest of the game, ennemies are NEVER put randomly. They Always have an in-world reason to be at the place we found them (either natural conditions or a little story told by observation). If dogs and crows are a clue left there from the beginning... It's brilliant ! And your theory is brilliant ! Well done, very clever !
Similar reason as to why the Divine Towers are of Farum Azula make and Leyndell has derivative from and replaced/covered Farum Azula architecture. It's easier to see after you burn the Erdtree, near the damn thing. Farum Azula was possibly east of the new region, around where that waterfall now is. Explains the Beast Sanctum and the structure below it at least. Or what I think is actually the case, Farum Azula was literally there in the "new" region way back then when the Elden Beast was sent down. I prefer it having been there, to be honest. For those that think Godfrey beat Placidusax, he is very recent in history and the dragons ruled way, way before the Golden Order and Elden Ring were even a thing.
I like the veil part of the theory to help add texture to the theme, but I also think the shadow lands still exist in a separate realm. It's not just hidden, it's phased out of the Lands Between and into somewhere we can only reach with Miquella's help. Someone heavily associated with dreams.
One thing, that straight-up shot to my mind, when you began your theory, but didn't mention in the video, is, when you take a look at the dlc trailer (or in your video 2:08) the light you can see is from behind the shadow tree and is not formed like the shadow tree, but like the erdtree. As if the light from the erdtree is shying through the veil. I think that is a huge giveaway. Greetings from Germany Marcel
When inside the divine towers, there's also those wisps of shadows that appear and disappear in thin air that I always found odd, like the towers weren't what they seemed.
I thought it was just dust and stuff. It appears in other places, like in Farum Azula. Because the Divine Towers are 100% Farum Azula architecture, unlike Leyndell's derivatives or replacements. Yeah, there's FA architecture in Leyndell as well, near the Erdtree. Easier to see after burning it since a good deal of the things covering it are gone. For derivatives, just look at everything but small walls and some stuff related to that. The Golden Order just doesn't use stone the same way.
Consider that the tower with the golem and the talisman that you can get teleported to via the chest trap has a section of what looks like a bridge on it. It's something I've always been curious about. The big panorama of the Shadow Lands at 2:08 features a high bridge that would be about the right height were it previously connected to Leyendell. Which is part of why I don't think the Shadow Lands are physically there. Assuming that is our missing connection point for the tower bridge, well, walking off that tower bridge leads to death. Don't ask how I know. By all accounts for the interview, it will continue to lead to death post DLC release. Meaning that the most plausible physical connection point leads to nowhere. Another thing to consider, Roundtable Hold. Specifically, our Roundtable Hold that appears to not be physically connected to anything in the Lands Between yet is identical to a building in the Lands Between and is even affected by events in the Lands Between. Currently our best potential for explaining these oddities lies in the Shadow Lands. Speaking of things that lie in the Shadow Lands, the Erdtree. Some version of the Erdtree is in the Shadow Lands and clearly beneath the veil. This entails that some or all of Leyendell is also there. So, either Leyendell and the Erdtree as we see it is an illusion or these things were connected and no longer are. Which, getting back to the previous point, might explain where our Roudtable is. Perhaps we've been in the Shadow Lands all along? We'll see. A common theme from real world mysticism and alchemy is this concept of "as above, so below". That things in the heavens, the realms of the gods, are emulated here in the mundane world as sort of facsimile or shadow of their true nature in the heavens. Elden Ring uses this concept liberally and I think the Shadow Lands will be a continuation of this. They will feature vaguely familiar yet dark and corrupted versions of things we've already seen. My current guess is that the Shadow Lands are an inversion of the Lands Between. Much like how we have to invert a tower to get to Ranni's body (incidentally using a statue that features a character shown to be in the Shadow Lands) we have to descend to ascend. The Shadow Lands have become separated as we are from our mirror selves. It's there and not there at the same time.
Just to elaborate on that last point a little further. A thing I continue to ask myself is, "Lands Between what?" I've been thinking that the answer is, between life and death. And I think that the Shadow Lands have a lot of potential to prove that right. If the Shadow Lands are removed in some way from the Lands Between, I think that the most plausible location for them, given all the other elements I mentioned, is in the realm of the living. That is, they are in the mundane world. The Lands Between acting as a kind of celestial abode or heavens that occupies a space that is neither mundane nor the realm of the dead and of abstractions like the Greater Will. The big stone inset into the Erdtree kinda paints the cosmology for us. There's a missing part that has been destroyed, there's the Ring, there's the Tree, then there's a... oblate spheroid? And then the image continues into a more abstract and more uniform and more geometric form of tree branches. If the Shadow Lands are anywhere, they're in that missing bit that was destroyed.
@@rainbowkrampusThe other day the very same question clicked for me as well! "Lands Between.. what exactly??" I jumped wayy far past speculation with my theory though lol. I know miyazaki said no more dlc has been planned in one of the interviews, but he also wouldn't mention it if they did have anything planned. Plus the website leak from last month or so that was related to ER controllers mentioned something about future dlc for 2025 as well, but then again that could all be fake since this dlc release date is out now and the normal ER controller hasn't popped back up. Anyway I think it'd be really sick if The Lands Between is in between The Land of Shadows and some other dlc in the future that would be almost the opposite. Something above instead of below. Whether that would be some kind of heaven or realm above where the Outer Gods stay. It also sort of fits with the as above so below stuff now that I see you mentioned that. Like I said, it's superrr farfetched, but my brain exploded when I put it together lol. We know stuff can come from space too like the Elden Beast as a star and the Astel beings in meteorites. However, I don't know if they would ever try and put anything "space themed" like that in their fantasy game. At least nothing to that extreme of a scale lol.
@@dawsong5208 Personally, I'm in "wait and see what SotE has to offer" mode. I don't think it'll answer even half of my questions but it will offer clarity and that will give me the space I need for further speculation. Like, I was fairly certain I had a good idea of who Melina is. Now after Messmer was introduced? I'm functionally at square one. She's the single most mysterious figure in the game. I'm actually at a point where I'm kinda hoping that we've been lied to about who Messmer is because I'm having a hard time accepting how we know next to nothing about a major character like this. I don't think we'll ever leave the Lands Between in a significant way. The Shadow Lands appear to have been part of the Lands Between at some point. So wherever it is now is not its natural state. The realm of the gods is out of the question in my mind. The whole Aristotelian cosmological concept there is that it's a place normal bodies can't go. It's outer space, but not as we conceive of it. It's outer space the way ancient people conceived of it. Where the stars are very close, the sun and moon are right next to each other and all of the gods and assorted spirits exist as a kind of inconceivable otherness. More than likely, any additional content will be like the Arena update. That was classified as a DLC. Heck, it might just be some new arenas or just a mode that incorporates the power scaling thing they talked about only being active in the Shadow Lands. Assuming anything at all comes in 2025, I don't expect anything big.
I'm only 30 seconds into the video and I _just_ posted a comment on another video saying something similar. The Land of Shadows is a missing piece of landmass at the center of the continent. Finishing the video now. Finished the video. Yep, that's more or less what I was thinking. You'll notice there's what looks like pieces of every part of the Lands Between in the DLC, with places that look like Caelid, Sellia, Liurnia, Leyndell, and so on. It's not an alternate dimension, so it must be physically near these locations to share their features, and it's about the size of Limgrave.
If you look at a suspended piece of veil from above it will appear straight , but if you look from the side it will look curved - there are rays coming from the erdtree to the south on the map , and with it's top down view , those rays might as well be pieces of the "veil".
I love the idea of the towers holding the veil! It also reminded me of the Black Knife Assassins since their veils make them invisible. I do wonder how we are supposed to end up there if we have to touch the hand in Mohg's palace though. Because of that I initially expected it to work similarly to Fortissax where we enter a dream.
Basically teleport magic via Miquella. The body in the egg is confirmed to be Miquella who's also confirmed to have travelled to the realm of shadow already, so basically we get a free convenient teleport for plot reasons. We may or may not get a deeper explanation e.g. "He created a portal into the shadow lands" or "He broke the veil which allows us physical entry from this location."
This land can also be a "dream" in the sense that we are accessing it via the slumbering Demi God Miquella. And we all know sleep is synonymous with death. This could be the area where Marika first defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen and where all spirits/those sleeping go to rest. A sort of "dreamy afterlife".
I love your tower location insight! Never noticed that. One thing no one channel addresses is the lit up symbol with a circle and lines cutting through. You reminded me of that with this point of view. Excellent idea!
I always quietly assumed that the crescent shape of the Lands Between was due to a chunk of landmass sinking from God War shenanigans. It being just magically sealed under water for us to enter as DLC is dope.
The location of the Isolated Divine Tower and the way the towers form a circle had me thinking something along these lines for quite a while now, I'm very happy the DLC seems to be leaning into that "central landmass" theory
The giant enemies are found in three places: Caelid, Mountaintops and Moghs domain. Knowing that i think is possible to assume that wathever makes those animals the way they are, is Mesmer, because in two of those three places we can see his influence, the thorns if his blood magic and well all the blood in Mohgs domain, wich by the way makes Mohg just a guy trying to emulate his cool older brother.
Weeping Peninsula is explicitly part of Limgrave. If you go in game, pull up the map, then open up the list of graces to warp to, all the ones in the Weeping Peninsula are in the Limgrave section. The Weeping Peninsula is a subsection of the Limgrave region, just like Mt Gelmir is a subsection of Altus.
If the sun was at Castle Sol, position wise, the shadow cast by the erdtree would be in the position you mention also. Maybe that's why Miquella wanted to create the eclipse, as no sun means no shadow.
Dude, I’ve heard these theories since the beginning and to see that they’re most likely true is absolutely mind blowing! Miquella’s Egg and the cloud in the center of the map is a theory I’ve believed for the past 18 months! Mind is officially blown 🤯
I think it's pretty safe to assume that the center ocean part of the map is the DLC area. There have been so many hints and lore discoveries over the past two years, that it is much more unlikely to be any other area. You managed to pull together the main leads for this theory pretty well. Edit: Quelaag pointed out some structures in the trailer that look like ship wrecks on a field of blue flowers (the part with the fight between the Samurai and the lady in red with the dual curved swords), which gives even more substance to this theory.
Oh, that's brilliant. Ships accidentally crashing into the boundary of the shadow lands... you can see something like that on the eastern side of the map!
@@UltraStarWarsFanatic Considering we know that the Shadow Lands are where Marika first set foot, this could be where her and her Numen people arrived to the Lands Between before the area was Veiled.
The migration over gone land lands perfectly on history where people and animals became separated by the ocean as it was once frozen and when it melted everybody was stuck on either side. Also I am thinking the shipwrecks might have something to do with this. Has anyone ever used freecam to see if there is anything hidden there by the ships or where that cloud on the map is. Probably that the map does not go that far currently but it is worth trying I think.
So glad other people have the same theory as me. Haven’t finished the vid so don’t know if you said this. But I’d love to see if the veil is draped over the divine towers and maybe that’s there purpose cause we still don’t know what they’re for. They do have the two fingers on them so that somewhat ties them to marika and the greater will maybe indirectly but the point still stands that the greater will uses them. And since the land of shadow is veiled by the erdtree it would make sense that the divine towers are used for that purpose
Okay this is LITERALLY THE BEST theory I've EVER heard about ANY upcoming gaming content EVER. I PROMISE YOU GUYS I'm not one of those people that believes everything, but this is just SO FUCKING COOL AND CONVINCING to me like WWOOOOWWWWW
This is genius. I think you've figured it out exactly. This would also explain some of the Caelid dogs in Mountaintops of the Giants - Caelid and the Mountaintops may have once been connected geographically by the Land of Shadow! (Edit: Never mind, you already cover that point. Great work!)
I mean, shit makes sense. Especially presented with the veil theory. It could be disguised as an ocean but really theres a land bridge connecting the two
Very cool connection with the divine towers holding up the veils. It does look like there are six veils in the trailer, although they are so ghostly it's hard to tell. My original thought was that the shadow of the erdtree was directly underneath the erdtree and was actually holding it up, but this makes more sense with the geography and other clues.
I was literally just thinking about this and you started with the start of my theory and I randomly found this to cross reference said theory. I'm so happy I pay attention😊
I have a theory that the tree we see wrapping around The Erdtree is actually a deathroot tree growing from the corpse of Godwyn. If you look at the sap leaking from the burnt Erdtree, it appears black and golden in color, very similar to deathblight. This would mean the tree twisting around The Erdtree isn't actually burnt, only The Erdtree is burnt. This other tree appears burnt because of the dark "dead tree" color of deathroot. If you look closely, the tree almost appears as a body holding tightly around The Erdtree, as if its squeezing the deathblighted sap from it. Could be similar to how Godwyn's body and face seems to sprout throughout The Lands Between? My reasoning behind this theory is that the tree wrapping around The Erdtree appears to be younger than The Erdtree, hence why it's using The Erdtree as support for its growth. Godwyn's corpse is located at the roots of The Erdtree/the ancient Greattree, could his deathblight have corrupted these roots and the physical Erdtree hidden underneath Marika's veil? And could a giant deathroot tree be growing from the old roots of the Greattree? The reason why we can't see this deathroot tree in the base game is because it's growing within Marika's veil over The Land of Shadow. More than enough time has supposedly passed between Godwyn's death and the events of the game for a deathroot tree to grow around The Erdtree. I think the tower we see collecting the sap from The Erdtree was built sometime after The Night of the Black Knives, and might be Messmer's attempt at collecting this deathblighted sap for one reason or another. It also ties into the theory that Miquella attemtped to resurrect Godwyn/give his corpse a proper death. Part of the reason why he travelled to The Land of Shadow could be because Godwyn's presence through deathroot is much more prevalent here than in the rest of The Lands Between. EDIT: This offers an alternate explanation for the spread of deathroot; instead of Godwyn's corpse literally spreading deathroot across The Lands Betwween, his deathblighted corpse is becoming part of the Erdtree itself, and it is the Erdtree that is the source of deathroot. We just can't see it, as it is unfolding from underneath Marika's veil.
I always thought the crows and dogs were just manifestations of where a large amount of death took place Caelid is obvious, but the mountaintops is were all the Giants were killed off. I just thought the crows and dogs represented carrion feeders
Yo, you actually nailed it. This is it. 100%. And that would maybe explain why there is a water fall at east that does not respect physic law. It could be linked to the edge of the shadow world.
I like the idea. You can drop the dog and bird proof however, though I know this video pre-dates the release of the dlc. You state that if these species migrated around the base map to reach the mountaintops then they would be found elsewhere on that map. The same logic would have to follow if they used the shadow lands as a bridge, but they aren’t found in the Shadow realm. It was a good idea at the time. Overall I still really like this theory.
Literally the whole game is an allegory for the Jungian psyche. The veil separates the unconscious Shadow from the conscious ego. The tree itself represents the human psyche. The bodies of the Dead that were once absorbed into the tree represent the integration of the infinite character archetypes contained within the pool of the unconscious. When the death rune was stolen the integration process was hindered. And as Carl Jung pointed out: "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is." Even the demigods seemed to represent the difference noble qualities that we all possess and their contrasting opposites illustrated in their downfalls and character flaws. Clearly the tree is sick and its shadow exerts itself invisibly over the waking world. And the dream elements align because Carl Jung was a psychoanalyst mainly concerned with dream interpretation where he felt the veil was thinnest between the ego and the shadow. All of miyazaki's games have had these alchemical and Jungian themes. ER in particular is full of them. The themes of gold parallel nicely with the alchemical idea of turning crude metals to gold and eternal life -or the deeper meaning of psychic wholeness and enlightenment.
I want to congratulate you for your channel and always providing a fresh view on games that most of us can pass from time to time, I like your premise on the location of this DlC and makes sense when you think of it it has been stated that Marika has a big part on this part of the story, her connection with the black knives amd the fact that is well known their veils can hide their presence would explain why that veil covering the land hides their presence
I like the tower theory, plus, it could explain the weird waterfall in this part of the ocean that no one knew what it was for, unless it's on the edge of the shadow realm... maybe ..
In Vaativida’s, “Lore of the ancient dragons” he touched on how the modern dragons and other creatures seen In Caelid migrated from the dragon barrow to other areas like the Mountain top of the Giants. Vaati mentioned the theory that there was a landmass specifically a bridge which you can see broken parts of that connected these two areas.
7:55 THANK YOU. It was pretty obvious to me and my friends, through environmental storytelling, that Weeping Peninsula is part of Limgrave, but distant enough for players that want to explore more. I do believe there was a bridge or land connecting Mountaintops with Caelid that was lost. The Land of Shadows could easily address that or just remain a popular theory.
Thought the same about the initial center position of the Shadow Lands (initially the Erdtree would have casted a shadow in direction of the South then). But you really add to it !
It could be under the ocean there, I know Miyazaki makes reference to a lot of literature in fantasy and it could be similar to how in tolkiens works there are many landmasses in the middle of the world that were sunk into the ocean due to story events.
Always thought about the zone in-between as a meteorite impact crater and towers with shards of it were emerged around the place predating queen marika's conquest, as it's most likely built by giants, which worshipped a fell god, which eye is kinda hinting on it all. Also imo farum azula was partially a bridge between the forge and bestial sanctum, but your theory also sounds interesting, will see how it turns out if we'll know even!
Soooooo sold on this concept. Makes so much sense. Only thing missing would be why you can only access the shadow lands through Miquella. Also would like to add that it does make sense (for me) that the shadow erdtree is the center point where the cloud in the current map is :-)
But the crows and dogs mutated to become monstrous because of the scarlet aeonia, which happened long after the lands of shadow would have been hidden, so that doesn't track at all
I had this theory as well, can't wait to see if it pans out! Would kinda be cool if the final outcome to the story was to drag this map into the main one.
Thank you so much for saying this, i thought of this earlier and put my prediction on the Elden ring subredit, which followed similarly to what you said. I got absolutely slaughtered. it honestly put me off speculating. but thats why they have the speculation flair right? Great video as always. also on the map Altus has sheer Cliffside's that look like land was connected to it at some point. further supporting this.
I agree with this as well, noting that if you look south past the storm veil castle, you can no longer see what was the original ‘erdtree’ you see when first entering limgrave after passing through it.
Based from what Miyazaki has said and the general map layout...it may be possible the new area could be connected to the forbidden lands that you cross through to get to the Mountaintops. The Forbidden lands are directly behind the Erdtree. Right underneath. Not to mention the "ocean" in the center of the map has "currents" that are artistically extremely close to the roads throughout the regular map and it connects directly into the Forbidden Lands underneath the Erdtree.
I am glad to see you back into Elden Ring content… you are the main source of knowledge I used on my first play through as I was a compete rookie to FromSoft games. Your spoiler free tips videos, your explanation of poise and charged R2’s etc got me through the early game.
This is precisely what I thought! I believe that the DLC lands will be shaped exactly like a negative of the "hole" in the center of the map, taking parts of Limgrave, Caelid, Liurnia and Altus (we can see a part of Leyndell next to the base of the trees). Marika's veil separated this land from the rest in order to hide the corruption of the Erdtree, and created a golden illusion in its stead.
Along the southern ridge of the Atlus Plateau, you can see several minor erdtrees and structures that it's currently impossible to get to. Using the markers on the map, you can gauge the distance to some of the structures, and their location on the map is in what is supposed to be water. These structures and trees have been there since the beginning and I haven't seen any loretubers discuss them.
i swear i feel like there was a leak for the DLC some time ago that said we would go underwater & get boss power ups like sekiro, & now i feel like there may have been some validity to it after all
Great video man! I agree, I also think that some evidence could be seen with how there are biomes that look like each place: weird white roots and broken sellia like town for Caelid, wheat fields like Altus, low foggy region and a Carian looking room with an NPC that looks like the statue on the hourglass for the upside down divine tower (makes sense if that tower is close to the shadow land), and we get forests thats look like limgrave. It is kind of odd that a map the size of limgrave has way more biomes than any of the maps in the main game. But it makes sense if it is the in between of all of them.
Awesome theory! It would be awesome if this is true. I wonder if another reason the Shadow Lands are obscured on our in game map is also due to a lack of knowledge on the place in the lands between. Even Gideon doesn't know about the Shadow Lands (or at least we can't ask him about it). It's assumed/inferred that only Miquella (& Mohg?) is somewhat known to know of this place's existence. I'm not an expert in the lore at all but the amount of questions and theories that can be made in this game is amazing.
I also wonder if the age of Marika and the erdtree expunged any record of this land mass' existence. So they're literally the shadow of the erdtree. Another skeleton in the closet for Marika/Radagon
I've always questioned how the Erdtree was planted at the base of a huge cliffface in a big lake with zero apparent infrastructure, and Miyazaki has graciously answered by question by saying that the Erdtree was first grown in the Shadow Lands, and that those lands have become disconnected from the Lands Between we know and love. After writing a big long comment about this topic on Jack is a Mimic's video, I took a trip to the Isolated Divine Tower to see how the Erdtree looked from there, to compare how it's angled in its lean compared to the center shadow tree, and the Erdtree looks much wider and taller than the Shadow Tree does. I doubted the lake DLC truthers but they were right, we just didn't have the clarity of vision to see the whole picture. Also the Isolated and Caelid Divine towers feel very idiosyncratic with their lack of bridges, and to a lesser extent West Altus, and it seems the Shadow Lands would've originally had the infrastructure connecting the towers to land. The legacy dungeon at 1:09 in the trailer has a staircase up to one of the veils, maybe this goes to/originally went to the Caelid Divine Tower? The ancient stone structures you see underpinning the Lands Between in places like the Ruin-Strewn Precipice are visible in the distance in the trailer, and in the additional screenshots in the green area, directly supporting the disconnection that Miyazaki talked about.
That dungeon in the trailer you referenced is key. You can clearly see debris floating up just like at Farum Azula in the background. The architecture looks similar as well to Farum and the Bestial Sanctum. My theory is that the giant crumbling structure you see is the remaining half of the same bridge you spawn on when you first wake up in Farum Azula, and the whole Mausoleum/city used to connect Caelid to the Mountaintops before it was ripped away and sent outside of time. We will step foot in the part of Farum that remains in the Shadow Lands.
It could be that The Greater Will created the Erdtree but it was imperfect and The Greater Will sealed away the imperfect part in another landmass than veiled it, that mass being the Land of Shadow, it could explain why Messmer with his snakes are in the Land of Shadow. The Greater Will didn't like the Erdtree, sealed away the bad parts, Messmer did something bad, maybe he was like Ranni and hated The Greater Will, then he got sealed away with the bad part of the Erdtree. Messmer could also be responsible for the bad part of the Erdtree and he was sealed away with his shadowy imitation of the Erdtree
7:25 I said this in quelaags live chat when she was giving her first thoughts on the trailer after reacting to it on day one. But nobody listened to me 🥺 oh well
See I always thought that central area was where the Falling Star originally broke through. You can even sort of see it's trajectory if you look at the astel boss arena.
This is perfetly fits the theory that Erdtree influencing what we see... some NPC asking if we see that huge golden tree, means that someone dont see it. Some are impressed that we see "guidance of grace".. Fits even more if Marika becoming of a god and bornage of gold tree is related. Also when it will be main focus point of DLC. More likely Marika didn't want us to see some things... so she hid it under the veil and that will is mediated through the erdtree.
Marika first set foot in the Land of the Crucible and hid it and it's tree when she took over for the big golden alien. When Messmer betrayed the Erdtree she cast him there so he couldn't get back out (and all the other things she didn't want in her land). Deathroot seeped it's way in through the deeproot depths and because Godwyn is literally attached to both trees roots. Also Messmer has a lot of satanic imagery (the snakes, red clothes, fire, briar sorcery, the fact he was cast into an underworld where enemies of the Erdtree go). There's definitely a lot of Gnostic inspiration in Elden Ring so that's why I think the Shadowland is a Hell where the Erdtree discards "sinners" (after death was turned off lmao), unwanted creations and beasts that came before. Maybe Miquella is doing a Harrowing of Hell type situation since he loves discarded people so much. idk im just waffling
The 6 towers being the one holding the veils on the Shadow Realm is insanely mindblowing theory. Like seriously I want this to be true
Seriously, good chance this ends up being cooler than what we end up getting.
This would be so élégant.
It's not true, and you're fat
yeah that’s where it clicked for me lol
I don't think that part is true because the source of the veil is clearly above the tree. No signs of perking up on 6 other points. There's just one point .Besides tarnished archeologist pretty much uncovers what the towers are for and it has nothing to do with Marika, they're much older than say Farum Azula in iconography only fitting the broken architecture all over the map specifically the one from Radahn's battle arena, the cliffs which appear to be the same society that built the forge, the colossal giants.
Worth adding, when choosing which grace to warp to from the list, all of the Weeping Peninsula sites are under Limgrave
The environments from the trailer are so varied I wondered how they would squish all that into limgrave without weeping peninsula.
@@robertwalton434 Weeping Peninsula is still inside on Limgrave, like Mt. Gelmir is part of Altus. The thing is that Limgrave, being the first area, doesn't have a lot on the surface.
EDIT: I misread. My apologies.
@@enman009they weren't disagreeing with that
@@personman446 yeah, I edited my comment apologizing for the misread.
Of course Weeping Peninsula is part of Limgrave. Even the artstyle tell us that at first glance.
People who brags they're different regions are probably the same saying Dio Brando and DIO are two different characters...
(also, a DLC the size of West and East Limgrave would have been a bit small honestly...)
Also to add, in the trailer, the Land of Shadow shares the same moon that’s visible in Liurnia. Another thing I noticed…in The Lands Between…the Erdtree we see is very translucent and look like a projection. I believe the Erdtree we see in the Land of Shadows, covered by the massive drapes, is the current, real state of the Erdtree.
This is it. This right here
The Erdtree seems pretty solid when you get to Morgotts arena, but I like this theory
I think the Shadow tree is a different one that maybe was initially intended to be the Erdtree. But then it was later burned or strangled by a different tree, and the only thing that remained from its initial form is the golden sap sips from it.
I think the Erdtree we see today in the lands between is a projection of a different tree, which its roots are now found in the various catacombs we find throughout the game.
you can kind of see the real state of the erdtree when you get up close to it. it's just kind of burned into a stump now, and the projection is what it used to look like
@@Tulip_bipalso, if it's actually almost burned down to a stump, there's a good possibility that it might be the reason that so many Crucible like things are rearing their heads in the modern Lands Between.
The statue iconography of the Erdtree being cultivated from a stump is very similar to the real life practice of trimming back all but the desired sprout from the stump of a living tree; so that sprout can grow into a full tree without competition.
Presumably, the stump of the Great Tree is analogous to the original Crucible-with no defining features to distinguish one thing from another (trunk, branches, leaves, and so on)-and, since Misbegotten, Omens, and other Crucible era creatures seem to be on the rise... It has a somewhat consistent logic to it.
Now, I'm not saying I'm right. This is just unhinged speculation.
I love the overly dry delivery of this guy it’s so funny. He’s like a lecture hall professor, but for video game nonsense
I think that’s why we all love him
especially with how confident he is
Hit the nail on the head 😂
Nonsense?!! ❤
Video game nonsense is the only thing I want a lecture on
It's also worth mentioning that there is shadow leakage inside the Divine Towers. When taking the elevator upwards, one can observe small strips of black goo falling. This observation aligns well with the theory that these towers are responsible for maintaining the veil.
Damn I totally forgot. It was really weird the first time yeah ! That could explain why
Great catch!
Strange as they are Farum Azula architecture. I spent way too much time analyzing the architecture in Elden Ring. Far too many pictures taken.
Honestly, I wonder if they already existed but were apropriated for that later down the road. It's probably what happened.
It's just dust bro
I never liked the "cloud over ocean" theory because we don't need maps, you can go on the top of any divine tower and look out over the actual ocean and see nothing, you don't need the map. But if a concealing veil (Black Knife assassins can be 100% invisible, right?) is covering the whole center, then that's something else. Another thing that always bothered me is that if you telescope the Erdtree from Liurnia, it is ethereal and see through. But up close in Lyndell, it is solid. This could be an oversight in the game assets and artistic direction, or it could be a hint towards the illusory effects of the veil this whole time, which obviously only affect your line of sight when it is in the way
I think the erdtree was burned down a long time ago and is only a phantom tree now
Golden Erdtree Is illusionary. It was burned away long ago (by Serpent/Messmer?), and age of Bounty ended with it, with tree incapable producing resurrective and healing blessings.
But because it is magic tree, it left a "ghost". That is more symbol of worship nowadays.
The erd tree is an illusion.
The physical parts you see in leyndell, and under it, are just the stump and roots left over from where it used to stand.
Perhaps the erd tree is now a spirit. @@matiasluukkanen7718
But if the Erdtre is only a ghost tree now, why we are able to set it ablaze? Not only that, but the ashes from it are covering Lyndell, so it must be real. Most likely that the see through effect is something to do with tehnical limitations, a solid Erdtree might have had a lot of performance impact on the game engine.
I got chills when you said, "each tower holding up part of the veil." Even if it's in a more metaphysical sense than a visually perceptible one, that just makes so much sense
I like the idea of it being veiled. It just makes sense to me. It was just like with Radahn how a comet literally put a hole in the land to let you into Nokron.
And Miyazaki said that defeating Radahn is required to enter DLC. So it tracks.
@@ErikWithBrain He IS? I thought it would just be Mohg.
@@DarknessIsTheTruth Mohg for access to Miquella's egg. But according to a recent interview witn Miyazaki Radahn is the Shardbearer whose death facilitates access to the Shadow DLC.
@@ErikWithBrainwhen did he say that? I'm pretty sure he confirmed that accessing the DLC area will be done through Miqeulla's arm in Mogh boss arena
@@darklonewolf4519 watch the other videos on this channel he goes over the interview that says it. That is how you access the DLC but you need to have killed Radahn for it to work.
The Divine Towers forming a circle is certainly no accident. It's a ring motif. Solid theory that it's related to the Shadow Lands.
I 100% agree with this.
Also if you look at the divine towers you see that half of them is covered in molten rock. Some thought that was from a meteorite falling to the lands between but not it might have been the fire of Messmer that melted the rock.
In the trailer we actually see a shot of a giant metal tube channeling lava somewhere. Could be the method they used to get all that molten rock on the outside of those towers.
@@HopeiThis also, within that same forge, there’s very conspicuous ornamentation on the architecture.
Ancient design on the walls, possibly belonging to the culture/giants who created the divine towers from a forge.
(Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong because a lot of the architecture in the Shadow Lands are completely unique designs not found in the Lands Between)
I still like the meteor theory. If it was Mesmer, what was he trying to accomplish, and why is the rock sludge absent from the adjoining bridges?
An excellent theory!
Holy shit ! Well spotted !
Top tier unhinged speculation. The connection between the towers and Marika’s mimic veil is when I knew it was true
Is the lady in the painting Marika ? (in the trailer, next to the sitting balding man). Cause if it's the case, she seems to have a veil of some sort before her eyes.
It's not unhinged at all honestly.
I love the theory about the hidden landmass being the reason why you find similar monsters in Caelid and Mountaintops of the Giants. Even if this is not correct, it is such a great idea LOL
I was always under the impression that it's because of Farum Azula, which only started floating around after the Elden Stars impact
Dogs in mountaintops have collars. They were brought there either way by masters.
@@DrkTide7so do the ones in Caelid actually
@@DrkTide7Mountaintops also have the giant crows and the same giant skeletons buried in the landscape
@@lukatosic09 you mean the one by Gowry lol? Yes. The one.
YES!!! After seeing what lore connections others had taken away from the reveal trailer, it feels like it lines up. The clothing of certain characters and bosses, the architecture, even the trees in certain parts of the trailer’s setting match up. The man in blue fits with the setting/hourglass figure of the Carian Divine Tower. The Dancing Lion boss has the omen horns and feet of Morgott (Stormveil Divine Tower). That giant Wicker Man field boss is described by Miyazaki as “previously a vicious war machine” which lines up with Caelid and the war that took place there. Messmer’s potential throne would line up with why Malenia’s (his sister) Divine Tower is located there. The deathblight swamp lines up with the Divine Tower of West Altus being directly under the Wormfaces and all of the deathroot…
And if Farum Azula was once connected to this land as well, it could explain why it also has Wormfaces and deathroot.
The Divine towers holding up the veil is such an awesome idea, I was always under the impression that Farum Azula was there before it went into the sky though
I saw another video showing that farum is on the ground in the shadow lands. So that supports this theory, if the shadow lands are also in the past.
The insane theory I found is that Farum Azula was in Radahn's arena, there're many dragons in there, there's Gurranq, there's the same architecture in Beast Sanctum, Caelid means "the heavens".
I think the whole ocean area, used to be a landmass, and farum azula was a part of what are now called that shadow lands. Whatever happened to the shadow lands, Farum Azula was dislodged (maybe by its own inhabitants?) From it.
After all, farum azula is the land of the beastmen, and they are 'shadows' are they not?
@@briggy4359 agreed. Considering the architectural similarities between the Bestial Sanctum and the structures in Farum, plus the name of the bridge there it seems clear that Farum was located between the Mountaintops and Eastern Caelid but was dislodged some how.
I think there are some images of the Shadow Land from the trailer that show buildings and rock floating upward exactly like in Farum as well, like Farum was detached before the Shadow Land was veiled.
If that's true, it pretty much confirms this theory which, I think, fits anyway.
Edit: the shot I'm thinking of is of the walled "city" that shows up around the 1 minute mark of the official trailer.
Off in the background you can see the dark silhouette of debris falling UPWARD. And the city looks a lot like it has Farum Azula's architecture. And with Farum's ties to dragon worship and the crucible, it must have had a lot of cultural influence over the Shadow Lands, hence why we see so many creatures and images connected to the crucible in the trailer. I could always be wrong but it makes a lot of sense.
@@robadams1645 I just commented below, but yeah when you watch the trailer, the picture shown around the 1 minute, 9 seconds mark seems to be maybe a half of Farum Azula left behind. The architecture looks alike, and you can see a lot of debris floating upward in the background if you zoom in. I'm guessing Farum would have been right between Bestial Sanctum and the Mountaintops with the area in the trailer being a little more inland, now veiled.
Rata bro keep these videos coming man. People like you are the only ones keeping me sane till the DLC drops in June
You will be insane before April 23rd.
Yo, it’s only been 2 days since the release date announcement.
Be excited for sure, but go replay some other From Software games in the meantime (or whatever games you like).
Mixing it up helps if you’re driving yourself mad waiting.
That last point could also explain why the giant skulls are present in both Caelid and the Mountaintops...
also didn't Miyazaki specifically mention something about General Radahn when talking about the dlc like he needed to be defeated. maybe he was involved in helping with the veil.
@@averagecarpentryskills7148 I think it’s more that him keeping the stars at bay prevents fate from moving forward within the shadow lands
@@averagecarpentryskills7148 It's probably Eclipse related.
The theory of land connecting caelid and mountaintops also makes sense when you consider that caelid is the only other place on the map that has those massive giant skulls and other remains.
After playing the dlc now a bit and seeing the whole map for land of shadows I absolutely 💯 percent agree that it is veiled in the center area that's ocean in the lands between. It seemingly fits almost perfect with the lands contours it's insane!
Yup that's exactly what I thought when Miyazaki said it was hidden by the Erdtree. And this game, more than others, has been very literal in its symbolism. It has left little to the imagination at times lol.
funniest bit was when the two fingers actually turned out to be two fingers.
Worth noting
Castle Mourne is a castle sieged by Godfrey. The famous sword associated with it is the Grafted Blade. The Grafted Blade belonged to a man from a country which is said to have vanished. The grafted blade has a lion crest engraved on it too, and the only known lion crest in base game Elden Ring is Godfrey’s, but of course he sieged against the man who made the blade. This makes me think of the lion dancers from the dlc trailer who Miyazaki said are from a culture before the Erdtree.
Castle Mourne is also home to many smoldering butterflies something which many equate with Messmer. It has a ton of banished knight equipment displayed there and the banished knights’ armor has many thorns upon it like the lion, as well as the dragon on the helmet like Messmer, and their red capes are like Messmer’s.
Also in the back of Castle Mourne is that little grave island which could be just from the inhabitants who died either during the siege or during the misbegotten uprising, however I don’t think bodies from either fight would get proper burials let alone giant grave stones. However we do know there are lots of giant grave stones in the Shadow Lands.
Edit: Godrick’s axe actually has the same lion crest on it as the grafted sword of Castle Morne. Also I spelled Morne wrong lol. Anyways the lion on there is specifically said to represent Godfrey! So I’m actually super confused about the grafted blade now because that was made explicitly by someone who was against Godfrey but apparently it has a crest representing Godfrey adorned on it???? I still think Castle Morne could be property of Messmer or some older civilization. The mention of the revenged being from a country now vanished is damning to me. But the lion crest is certainly damn confusing. My only guess would be that as a sign of victory the Grafted Blade had Godfrey’s crest attached to it post defeat of the Revenger? Not sure honestly.
These are some great ideas 🤌
Further to this, there's that large gravestone with a hole in the centre where you find it, same style as those shown in the Shadow realm. Plus the handle of the blade features a similar spiral design to the pillars seen throughout the trailer.
This has been a crucial part of my working theory since I saw the trailer. I think Messmer, or someone closely tied to him and his group, fought Godfrey at Castle Morne.
I also think the shadow lands is actually the crucible. Due to the distinct growth of omen horns on certain beings and the seeming mashing together of principles and fundamental concepts, like how a crucible forges molten metals together to form new properties.
Given Messmers serpent, flame and draconic iconography. I believe we will learn the truth of the old order before Marika which Messmer is tied to. I believe the Gloam Eyed Queen is the god Queen before Marika, and the true mother of Melina the inheritor of her will. I believe when Marika upended the lands between and forged her new order, the Gloam eyed queen fled to the shadow lands. Which explains the reason behind Placidusax’s god “fleeing” mysteriously.
The serpent, the dragons, and the black flame order are all intertwined I believe, and most likely the giants and flame of ruin as well. My ultimate theory is the Gloam eyed queen entered the shadow lands, AKA the crucible to be “forged” anew. Which explains why Miquella would’ve gone here when he entered his egg state. He went to the crucible to be created into a higher being. Perhaps even an outer god. The Gloam eyed queen would have to be either the rot god or the formless mother. I believe given the tie to two in game Omens, the aspect of blood flame that their cursed blood possesses, and the extremely aggressive nature of the formless mother against the Erdtree and in forming her own order, as well as the title of “mother”. Something we hear Marika called frequently. I do think we are seeing the old order rise up with the destruction of the Golden order, and our Tarnished seeks not only to free Miquella from the formless mothers clutches, but stamp out the remnants of the old order, and leave no one to stifle the progress the tarnished themselves seek.
Also Impaler's catacombs are in Limgrave. Perhaps Weeping Peninsula was originally fief or domain given to Messmer?
@@lillonerboi504if Messmer is Radagon and Marika's son, he fould have not fought Godfrey at Vastle Morne, since he was not yet born
@@ira1420 There’s no definitive evidence he is their son. It’s entirely possible Radagon is a descendant of this order, and that’s why Marika felt she had to take him into herself. Perhaps he plays a role in the veil that divides the two realms.
There’s not enough to say he’s Malenias other brother we hear nothing about and have zero in game clues of. Even Nameless King had contextual clues building him up..
If what you suggest is true then I have a few things to say. One, the DLC area would quite literally "the lands between" on account of being sandwiched between all the other regions of the map. Two, if the towers mark the boundary of that map, then that would make the Erdtree the sole point of overlap between the two realms. Wouldn't this mean that Marika, The Elden Beast, and The Elden Ring also exist at that spot in the Shadow realm?
We already know that certain things and people can exist in both realms simultaneously. For instance, Miquella exists in both the outside world at Mohgs alter and in its shadow where he assumes his original form. We also know that in Miquella's case, the two bodies don't necessarily have to occupy the same space. With this in mind, I'd like to make a theory:
I think that sometime before Radagon went to live with Renala, he went to the Shadow Erdtree while Marika stayed in the Light Erdtree. From there, the two established a sort of link between their bodies, perhaps by using the Elden Ring's Law of Convergence to some capacity. What you see then when Marika transforms is actually the two of their souls swapping placements with each other, so when Marika is in the realm of light then Radagon is in the Realm of Shadow and so on.
It's possible Miquella and St. Trina had a similar thing going on. The body on that alter might actually be her, swapped in place of Miquella at the last second only to meet a gruesome fate.
You have given meaning to the “lazy recycling” of the Mountaintop of Giants. I was always intrigued by that. Considering in the rest of the game, ennemies are NEVER put randomly. They Always have an in-world reason to be at the place we found them (either natural conditions or a little story told by observation).
If dogs and crows are a clue left there from the beginning... It's brilliant ! And your theory is brilliant ! Well done, very clever !
It's not his theory bruh
Similar reason as to why the Divine Towers are of Farum Azula make and Leyndell has derivative from and replaced/covered Farum Azula architecture.
It's easier to see after you burn the Erdtree, near the damn thing.
Farum Azula was possibly east of the new region, around where that waterfall now is. Explains the Beast Sanctum and the structure below it at least.
Or what I think is actually the case, Farum Azula was literally there in the "new" region way back then when the Elden Beast was sent down.
I prefer it having been there, to be honest.
For those that think Godfrey beat Placidusax, he is very recent in history and the dragons ruled way, way before the Golden Order and Elden Ring were even a thing.
I think your theory is 100% correct and I plan to spend a few hundred hours inspecting the new area.
I like the veil part of the theory to help add texture to the theme, but I also think the shadow lands still exist in a separate realm. It's not just hidden, it's phased out of the Lands Between and into somewhere we can only reach with Miquella's help. Someone heavily associated with dreams.
One thing, that straight-up shot to my mind, when you began your theory, but didn't mention in the video, is, when you take a look at the dlc trailer (or in your video 2:08) the light you can see is from behind the shadow tree and is not formed like the shadow tree, but like the erdtree. As if the light from the erdtree is shying through the veil. I think that is a huge giveaway.
Greetings from Germany
Marcel
Finally the dry season is over. We now have so much content to consume!
Your insane ramblings before a big release like this are the best, thank you
When inside the divine towers, there's also those wisps of shadows that appear and disappear in thin air that I always found odd, like the towers weren't what they seemed.
I've always wondered what that was about and why no one mentions it. The black shadows are clearly intentional since they are in every tower.
I thought it was just dust and stuff. It appears in other places, like in Farum Azula.
Because the Divine Towers are 100% Farum Azula architecture, unlike Leyndell's derivatives or replacements. Yeah, there's FA architecture in Leyndell as well, near the Erdtree. Easier to see after burning it since a good deal of the things covering it are gone. For derivatives, just look at everything but small walls and some stuff related to that.
The Golden Order just doesn't use stone the same way.
When Miquella does his thing at the end of the trailer, it looks like the veils are gone.
Bros neurons were on fire...
Well done.
Consider that the tower with the golem and the talisman that you can get teleported to via the chest trap has a section of what looks like a bridge on it. It's something I've always been curious about. The big panorama of the Shadow Lands at 2:08 features a high bridge that would be about the right height were it previously connected to Leyendell.
Which is part of why I don't think the Shadow Lands are physically there.
Assuming that is our missing connection point for the tower bridge, well, walking off that tower bridge leads to death. Don't ask how I know. By all accounts for the interview, it will continue to lead to death post DLC release. Meaning that the most plausible physical connection point leads to nowhere.
Another thing to consider, Roundtable Hold. Specifically, our Roundtable Hold that appears to not be physically connected to anything in the Lands Between yet is identical to a building in the Lands Between and is even affected by events in the Lands Between. Currently our best potential for explaining these oddities lies in the Shadow Lands.
Speaking of things that lie in the Shadow Lands, the Erdtree. Some version of the Erdtree is in the Shadow Lands and clearly beneath the veil. This entails that some or all of Leyendell is also there. So, either Leyendell and the Erdtree as we see it is an illusion or these things were connected and no longer are. Which, getting back to the previous point, might explain where our Roudtable is. Perhaps we've been in the Shadow Lands all along? We'll see.
A common theme from real world mysticism and alchemy is this concept of "as above, so below". That things in the heavens, the realms of the gods, are emulated here in the mundane world as sort of facsimile or shadow of their true nature in the heavens. Elden Ring uses this concept liberally and I think the Shadow Lands will be a continuation of this. They will feature vaguely familiar yet dark and corrupted versions of things we've already seen.
My current guess is that the Shadow Lands are an inversion of the Lands Between. Much like how we have to invert a tower to get to Ranni's body (incidentally using a statue that features a character shown to be in the Shadow Lands) we have to descend to ascend. The Shadow Lands have become separated as we are from our mirror selves. It's there and not there at the same time.
Just to elaborate on that last point a little further.
A thing I continue to ask myself is, "Lands Between what?" I've been thinking that the answer is, between life and death. And I think that the Shadow Lands have a lot of potential to prove that right.
If the Shadow Lands are removed in some way from the Lands Between, I think that the most plausible location for them, given all the other elements I mentioned, is in the realm of the living. That is, they are in the mundane world. The Lands Between acting as a kind of celestial abode or heavens that occupies a space that is neither mundane nor the realm of the dead and of abstractions like the Greater Will. The big stone inset into the Erdtree kinda paints the cosmology for us. There's a missing part that has been destroyed, there's the Ring, there's the Tree, then there's a... oblate spheroid? And then the image continues into a more abstract and more uniform and more geometric form of tree branches.
If the Shadow Lands are anywhere, they're in that missing bit that was destroyed.
Really love that Round Table theory! That would be sick!
@@rainbowkrampusThe other day the very same question clicked for me as well! "Lands Between.. what exactly??" I jumped wayy far past speculation with my theory though lol. I know miyazaki said no more dlc has been planned in one of the interviews, but he also wouldn't mention it if they did have anything planned. Plus the website leak from last month or so that was related to ER controllers mentioned something about future dlc for 2025 as well, but then again that could all be fake since this dlc release date is out now and the normal ER controller hasn't popped back up. Anyway I think it'd be really sick if The Lands Between is in between The Land of Shadows and some other dlc in the future that would be almost the opposite. Something above instead of below. Whether that would be some kind of heaven or realm above where the Outer Gods stay. It also sort of fits with the as above so below stuff now that I see you mentioned that. Like I said, it's superrr farfetched, but my brain exploded when I put it together lol. We know stuff can come from space too like the Elden Beast as a star and the Astel beings in meteorites. However, I don't know if they would ever try and put anything "space themed" like that in their fantasy game. At least nothing to that extreme of a scale lol.
@@dawsong5208 Personally, I'm in "wait and see what SotE has to offer" mode.
I don't think it'll answer even half of my questions but it will offer clarity and that will give me the space I need for further speculation.
Like, I was fairly certain I had a good idea of who Melina is. Now after Messmer was introduced? I'm functionally at square one. She's the single most mysterious figure in the game. I'm actually at a point where I'm kinda hoping that we've been lied to about who Messmer is because I'm having a hard time accepting how we know next to nothing about a major character like this.
I don't think we'll ever leave the Lands Between in a significant way. The Shadow Lands appear to have been part of the Lands Between at some point. So wherever it is now is not its natural state.
The realm of the gods is out of the question in my mind. The whole Aristotelian cosmological concept there is that it's a place normal bodies can't go. It's outer space, but not as we conceive of it. It's outer space the way ancient people conceived of it. Where the stars are very close, the sun and moon are right next to each other and all of the gods and assorted spirits exist as a kind of inconceivable otherness.
More than likely, any additional content will be like the Arena update. That was classified as a DLC. Heck, it might just be some new arenas or just a mode that incorporates the power scaling thing they talked about only being active in the Shadow Lands. Assuming anything at all comes in 2025, I don't expect anything big.
Actually, it's the Eclipse.
It's why you need to kill Radahn.
If there is someone curious about the ost at 3:35, it's from King's Field IV, name is "Dark Reality".
I'm only 30 seconds into the video and I _just_ posted a comment on another video saying something similar. The Land of Shadows is a missing piece of landmass at the center of the continent. Finishing the video now.
Finished the video. Yep, that's more or less what I was thinking. You'll notice there's what looks like pieces of every part of the Lands Between in the DLC, with places that look like Caelid, Sellia, Liurnia, Leyndell, and so on. It's not an alternate dimension, so it must be physically near these locations to share their features, and it's about the size of Limgrave.
If you look at a suspended piece of veil from above it will appear straight , but if you look from the side it will look curved - there are rays coming from the erdtree to the south on the map , and with it's top down view , those rays might as well be pieces of the "veil".
Thank you for choosing LTTP Light World Dungeon theme in the background! Makes me nostalgic.
In addition to a Mimic Veil item there is a Concealing Veil talisman
OMG YES! Used by the black knifes, Numen with Marika coming from another land ....it all makes sensee...
I love the idea of the towers holding the veil! It also reminded me of the Black Knife Assassins since their veils make them invisible. I do wonder how we are supposed to end up there if we have to touch the hand in Mohg's palace though. Because of that I initially expected it to work similarly to Fortissax where we enter a dream.
Basically teleport magic via Miquella. The body in the egg is confirmed to be Miquella who's also confirmed to have travelled to the realm of shadow already, so basically we get a free convenient teleport for plot reasons. We may or may not get a deeper explanation e.g. "He created a portal into the shadow lands" or "He broke the veil which allows us physical entry from this location."
This land can also be a "dream" in the sense that we are accessing it via the slumbering Demi God Miquella. And we all know sleep is synonymous with death. This could be the area where Marika first defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen and where all spirits/those sleeping go to rest. A sort of "dreamy afterlife".
Because of the Eclipse. It's why killing Radahn is mandatory to access the DLC.
I love your tower location insight! Never noticed that. One thing no one channel addresses is the lit up symbol with a circle and lines cutting through. You reminded me of that with this point of view. Excellent idea!
I always quietly assumed that the crescent shape of the Lands Between was due to a chunk of landmass sinking from God War shenanigans. It being just magically sealed under water for us to enter as DLC is dope.
The location of the Isolated Divine Tower and the way the towers form a circle had me thinking something along these lines for quite a while now, I'm very happy the DLC seems to be leaning into that "central landmass" theory
The giant enemies are found in three places: Caelid, Mountaintops and Moghs domain. Knowing that i think is possible to assume that wathever makes those animals the way they are, is Mesmer, because in two of those three places we can see his influence, the thorns if his blood magic and well all the blood in Mohgs domain, wich by the way makes Mohg just a guy trying to emulate his cool older brother.
Weeping Peninsula is explicitly part of Limgrave. If you go in game, pull up the map, then open up the list of graces to warp to, all the ones in the Weeping Peninsula are in the Limgrave section. The Weeping Peninsula is a subsection of the Limgrave region, just like Mt Gelmir is a subsection of Altus.
If the sun was at Castle Sol, position wise, the shadow cast by the erdtree would be in the position you mention also. Maybe that's why Miquella wanted to create the eclipse, as no sun means no shadow.
And that's why you need to kill Radahn.
Dude, I’ve heard these theories since the beginning and to see that they’re most likely true is absolutely mind blowing! Miquella’s Egg and the cloud in the center of the map is a theory I’ve believed for the past 18 months! Mind is officially blown 🤯
crazy how correct this is way before the game came out lol
I think it's pretty safe to assume that the center ocean part of the map is the DLC area. There have been so many hints and lore discoveries over the past two years, that it is much more unlikely to be any other area. You managed to pull together the main leads for this theory pretty well.
Edit: Quelaag pointed out some structures in the trailer that look like ship wrecks on a field of blue flowers (the part with the fight between the Samurai and the lady in red with the dual curved swords), which gives even more substance to this theory.
Oh, that's brilliant. Ships accidentally crashing into the boundary of the shadow lands... you can see something like that on the eastern side of the map!
@@UltraStarWarsFanatic Considering we know that the Shadow Lands are where Marika first set foot, this could be where her and her Numen people arrived to the Lands Between before the area was Veiled.
What a good guess! I don’t think it’s ever proven but man the map fits right in that area like you said it would be!
It's a common story theme to have the ocean be a waypath to another dimension, much like how Truman had to sail across the fake lake to get outside.
The migration over gone land lands perfectly on history where people and animals became separated by the ocean as it was once frozen and when it melted everybody was stuck on either side.
Also I am thinking the shipwrecks might have something to do with this. Has anyone ever used freecam to see if there is anything hidden there by the ships or where that cloud on the map is. Probably that the map does not go that far currently but it is worth trying I think.
So glad other people have the same theory as me. Haven’t finished the vid so don’t know if you said this. But I’d love to see if the veil is draped over the divine towers and maybe that’s there purpose cause we still don’t know what they’re for. They do have the two fingers on them so that somewhat ties them to marika and the greater will maybe indirectly but the point still stands that the greater will uses them. And since the land of shadow is veiled by the erdtree it would make sense that the divine towers are used for that purpose
Okay this is LITERALLY THE BEST theory I've EVER heard about ANY upcoming gaming content EVER. I PROMISE YOU GUYS I'm not one of those people that believes everything, but this is just SO FUCKING COOL AND CONVINCING to me like WWOOOOWWWWW
"Each Divine Tower holds up part of the veil"... You nailed it 👌
This is genius. I think you've figured it out exactly. This would also explain some of the Caelid dogs in Mountaintops of the Giants - Caelid and the Mountaintops may have once been connected geographically by the Land of Shadow!
(Edit: Never mind, you already cover that point. Great work!)
But if we burn the erdtree, shouldn't the obscured land be revealed?
I mean, shit makes sense. Especially presented with the veil theory. It could be disguised as an ocean but really theres a land bridge connecting the two
Very cool connection with the divine towers holding up the veils. It does look like there are six veils in the trailer, although they are so ghostly it's hard to tell. My original thought was that the shadow of the erdtree was directly underneath the erdtree and was actually holding it up, but this makes more sense with the geography and other clues.
I was literally just thinking about this and you started with the start of my theory and I randomly found this to cross reference said theory. I'm so happy I pay attention😊
I’m so pscyhed to talk to the new npcs. I hope there’s a lot of them with a lot of stuff going on. Convoluted quests etc.
I have a theory that the tree we see wrapping around The Erdtree is actually a deathroot tree growing from the corpse of Godwyn. If you look at the sap leaking from the burnt Erdtree, it appears black and golden in color, very similar to deathblight. This would mean the tree twisting around The Erdtree isn't actually burnt, only The Erdtree is burnt. This other tree appears burnt because of the dark "dead tree" color of deathroot. If you look closely, the tree almost appears as a body holding tightly around The Erdtree, as if its squeezing the deathblighted sap from it. Could be similar to how Godwyn's body and face seems to sprout throughout The Lands Between?
My reasoning behind this theory is that the tree wrapping around The Erdtree appears to be younger than The Erdtree, hence why it's using The Erdtree as support for its growth. Godwyn's corpse is located at the roots of The Erdtree/the ancient Greattree, could his deathblight have corrupted these roots and the physical Erdtree hidden underneath Marika's veil? And could a giant deathroot tree be growing from the old roots of the Greattree? The reason why we can't see this deathroot tree in the base game is because it's growing within Marika's veil over The Land of Shadow. More than enough time has supposedly passed between Godwyn's death and the events of the game for a deathroot tree to grow around The Erdtree.
I think the tower we see collecting the sap from The Erdtree was built sometime after The Night of the Black Knives, and might be Messmer's attempt at collecting this deathblighted sap for one reason or another. It also ties into the theory that Miquella attemtped to resurrect Godwyn/give his corpse a proper death. Part of the reason why he travelled to The Land of Shadow could be because Godwyn's presence through deathroot is much more prevalent here than in the rest of The Lands Between.
EDIT: This offers an alternate explanation for the spread of deathroot; instead of Godwyn's corpse literally spreading deathroot across The Lands Betwween, his deathblighted corpse is becoming part of the Erdtree itself, and it is the Erdtree that is the source of deathroot. We just can't see it, as it is unfolding from underneath Marika's veil.
I always thought the crows and dogs were just manifestations of where a large amount of death took place
Caelid is obvious, but the mountaintops is were all the Giants were killed off. I just thought the crows and dogs represented carrion feeders
And people thought the illusion around Anor Londo was huge
Yo, you actually nailed it. This is it. 100%. And that would maybe explain why there is a water fall at east that does not respect physic law. It could be linked to the edge of the shadow world.
I like the idea. You can drop the dog and bird proof however, though I know this video pre-dates the release of the dlc. You state that if these species migrated around the base map to reach the mountaintops then they would be found elsewhere on that map. The same logic would have to follow if they used the shadow lands as a bridge, but they aren’t found in the Shadow realm. It was a good idea at the time. Overall I still really like this theory.
Very smart conclusion, love it. Currently on my first play through of a souls-like game.
Literally the whole game is an allegory for the Jungian psyche. The veil separates the unconscious Shadow from the conscious ego. The tree itself represents the human psyche. The bodies of the Dead that were once absorbed into the tree represent the integration of the infinite character archetypes contained within the pool of the unconscious. When the death rune was stolen the integration process was hindered. And as Carl Jung pointed out:
"Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."
Even the demigods seemed to represent the difference noble qualities that we all possess and their contrasting opposites illustrated in their downfalls and character flaws. Clearly the tree is sick and its shadow exerts itself invisibly over the waking world. And the dream elements align because Carl Jung was a psychoanalyst mainly concerned with dream interpretation where he felt the veil was thinnest between the ego and the shadow.
All of miyazaki's games have had these alchemical and Jungian themes. ER in particular is full of them. The themes of gold parallel nicely with the alchemical idea of turning crude metals to gold and eternal life -or the deeper meaning of psychic wholeness and enlightenment.
I want to congratulate you for your channel and always providing a fresh view on games that most of us can pass from time to time, I like your premise on the location of this DlC and makes sense when you think of it it has been stated that Marika has a big part on this part of the story, her connection with the black knives amd the fact that is well known their veils can hide their presence would explain why that veil covering the land hides their presence
I like the tower theory, plus, it could explain the weird waterfall in this part of the ocean that no one knew what it was for, unless it's on the edge of the shadow realm... maybe
..
In Vaativida’s, “Lore of the ancient dragons” he touched on how the modern dragons and other creatures seen In Caelid migrated from the dragon barrow to other areas like the Mountain top of the Giants. Vaati mentioned the theory that there was a landmass specifically a bridge which you can see broken parts of that connected these two areas.
7:55 THANK YOU. It was pretty obvious to me and my friends, through environmental storytelling, that Weeping Peninsula is part of Limgrave, but distant enough for players that want to explore more.
I do believe there was a bridge or land connecting Mountaintops with Caelid that was lost. The Land of Shadows could easily address that or just remain a popular theory.
That makes a lot of sense honestly, it feels like the puzzle pieces are starting to come together 👌
Thought the same about the initial center position of the Shadow Lands (initially the Erdtree would have casted a shadow in direction of the South then).
But you really add to it !
It could be under the ocean there, I know Miyazaki makes reference to a lot of literature in fantasy and it could be similar to how in tolkiens works there are many landmasses in the middle of the world that were sunk into the ocean due to story events.
And the Shadow tree is holding up the veil against the weight of the water
Always thought about the zone in-between as a meteorite impact crater and towers with shards of it were emerged around the place predating queen marika's conquest, as it's most likely built by giants, which worshipped a fell god, which eye is kinda hinting on it all. Also imo farum azula was partially a bridge between the forge and bestial sanctum, but your theory also sounds interesting, will see how it turns out if we'll know even!
The towers holding the veil fits so well as a theory! It connects what they even are to the glaring hole in the middle of the map.
Soooooo sold on this concept. Makes so much sense. Only thing missing would be why you can only access the shadow lands through Miquella.
Also would like to add that it does make sense (for me) that the shadow erdtree is the center point where the cloud in the current map is :-)
this aged well
This is the best well put together guess I’ve heard.
Very nice, love the delivery of the information.
You can always tell when Ratatoskr gets excited about something. He puts out a bunch of videos in a row that seem to say: And another thing, … !!!
This sounds so logical even though it's a theory. Amazing
But the crows and dogs mutated to become monstrous because of the scarlet aeonia, which happened long after the lands of shadow would have been hidden, so that doesn't track at all
I had this theory as well, can't wait to see if it pans out!
Would kinda be cool if the final outcome to the story was to drag this map into the main one.
Thank you so much for saying this, i thought of this earlier and put my prediction on the Elden ring subredit, which followed similarly to what you said. I got absolutely slaughtered. it honestly put me off speculating. but thats why they have the speculation flair right? Great video as always. also on the map Altus has sheer Cliffside's that look like land was connected to it at some point. further supporting this.
I agree with this as well, noting that if you look south past the storm veil castle, you can no longer see what was the original ‘erdtree’ you see when first entering limgrave after passing through it.
Based from what Miyazaki has said and the general map layout...it may be possible the new area could be connected to the forbidden lands that you cross through to get to the Mountaintops. The Forbidden lands are directly behind the Erdtree. Right underneath. Not to mention the "ocean" in the center of the map has "currents" that are artistically extremely close to the roads throughout the regular map and it connects directly into the Forbidden Lands underneath the Erdtree.
My god the towers, thats honestly a really good point, it would make so much sense
I am glad to see you back into Elden Ring content… you are the main source of knowledge I used on my first play through as I was a compete rookie to FromSoft games. Your spoiler free tips videos, your explanation of poise and charged R2’s etc got me through the early game.
This is precisely what I thought! I believe that the DLC lands will be shaped exactly like a negative of the "hole" in the center of the map, taking parts of Limgrave, Caelid, Liurnia and Altus (we can see a part of Leyndell next to the base of the trees).
Marika's veil separated this land from the rest in order to hide the corruption of the Erdtree, and created a golden illusion in its stead.
Yeah, that really makes sense. Good points there Ratatoskr.
Along the southern ridge of the Atlus Plateau, you can see several minor erdtrees and structures that it's currently impossible to get to.
Using the markers on the map, you can gauge the distance to some of the structures, and their location on the map is in what is supposed to be water.
These structures and trees have been there since the beginning and I haven't seen any loretubers discuss them.
I would love to go test this myself. Where exactly did you end up doing this on the map?
@@dawsong5208I did the map markers from the southern ridge right next to the capital wall, outside of the capital
i swear i feel like there was a leak for the DLC some time ago that said we would go underwater & get boss power ups like sekiro, & now i feel like there may have been some validity to it after all
Great video man! I agree, I also think that some evidence could be seen with how there are biomes that look like each place: weird white roots and broken sellia like town for Caelid, wheat fields like Altus, low foggy region and a Carian looking room with an NPC that looks like the statue on the hourglass for the upside down divine tower (makes sense if that tower is close to the shadow land), and we get forests thats look like limgrave.
It is kind of odd that a map the size of limgrave has way more biomes than any of the maps in the main game. But it makes sense if it is the in between of all of them.
Awesome theory! It would be awesome if this is true. I wonder if another reason the Shadow Lands are obscured on our in game map is also due to a lack of knowledge on the place in the lands between. Even Gideon doesn't know about the Shadow Lands (or at least we can't ask him about it). It's assumed/inferred that only Miquella (& Mohg?) is somewhat known to know of this place's existence.
I'm not an expert in the lore at all but the amount of questions and theories that can be made in this game is amazing.
I also wonder if the age of Marika and the erdtree expunged any record of this land mass' existence. So they're literally the shadow of the erdtree. Another skeleton in the closet for Marika/Radagon
i'm sold
you're theories are so good you gotta start marking it as spoilers
8:49 - Love the Zelda music close to the end!
I've always questioned how the Erdtree was planted at the base of a huge cliffface in a big lake with zero apparent infrastructure, and Miyazaki has graciously answered by question by saying that the Erdtree was first grown in the Shadow Lands, and that those lands have become disconnected from the Lands Between we know and love. After writing a big long comment about this topic on Jack is a Mimic's video, I took a trip to the Isolated Divine Tower to see how the Erdtree looked from there, to compare how it's angled in its lean compared to the center shadow tree, and the Erdtree looks much wider and taller than the Shadow Tree does. I doubted the lake DLC truthers but they were right, we just didn't have the clarity of vision to see the whole picture.
Also the Isolated and Caelid Divine towers feel very idiosyncratic with their lack of bridges, and to a lesser extent West Altus, and it seems the Shadow Lands would've originally had the infrastructure connecting the towers to land. The legacy dungeon at 1:09 in the trailer has a staircase up to one of the veils, maybe this goes to/originally went to the Caelid Divine Tower? The ancient stone structures you see underpinning the Lands Between in places like the Ruin-Strewn Precipice are visible in the distance in the trailer, and in the additional screenshots in the green area, directly supporting the disconnection that Miyazaki talked about.
That dungeon in the trailer you referenced is key. You can clearly see debris floating up just like at Farum Azula in the background. The architecture looks similar as well to Farum and the Bestial Sanctum.
My theory is that the giant crumbling structure you see is the remaining half of the same bridge you spawn on when you first wake up in Farum Azula, and the whole Mausoleum/city used to connect Caelid to the Mountaintops before it was ripped away and sent outside of time. We will step foot in the part of Farum that remains in the Shadow Lands.
It could be that The Greater Will created the Erdtree but it was imperfect and The Greater Will sealed away the imperfect part in another landmass than veiled it, that mass being the Land of Shadow, it could explain why Messmer with his snakes are in the Land of Shadow. The Greater Will didn't like the Erdtree, sealed away the bad parts, Messmer did something bad, maybe he was like Ranni and hated The Greater Will, then he got sealed away with the bad part of the Erdtree. Messmer could also be responsible for the bad part of the Erdtree and he was sealed away with his shadowy imitation of the Erdtree
7:25 I said this in quelaags live chat when she was giving her first thoughts on the trailer after reacting to it on day one. But nobody listened to me 🥺 oh well
See I always thought that central area was where the Falling Star originally broke through. You can even sort of see it's trajectory if you look at the astel boss arena.
This is perfetly fits the theory that Erdtree influencing what we see... some NPC asking if we see that huge golden tree, means that someone dont see it. Some are impressed that we see "guidance of grace".. Fits even more if Marika becoming of a god and bornage of gold tree is related. Also when it will be main focus point of DLC. More likely Marika didn't want us to see some things... so she hid it under the veil and that will is mediated through the erdtree.
Marika first set foot in the Land of the Crucible and hid it and it's tree when she took over for the big golden alien. When Messmer betrayed the Erdtree she cast him there so he couldn't get back out (and all the other things she didn't want in her land). Deathroot seeped it's way in through the deeproot depths and because Godwyn is literally attached to both trees roots.
Also Messmer has a lot of satanic imagery (the snakes, red clothes, fire, briar sorcery, the fact he was cast into an underworld where enemies of the Erdtree go). There's definitely a lot of Gnostic inspiration in Elden Ring so that's why I think the Shadowland is a Hell where the Erdtree discards "sinners" (after death was turned off lmao), unwanted creations and beasts that came before. Maybe Miquella is doing a Harrowing of Hell type situation since he loves discarded people so much.
idk im just waffling
Erdtree is the Crucible:
"Holds the power of the crucible of life, the primordial form of the Erdtree."
Crucible Knights Armor