Did Emma Smith claim she never believed in Joseph’s revelations? Ep. 175
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode, David Snell talks about a letter purportedly written by Emma Smith and published in the New York Sun in 1845, in which she allegedly denies that she ever believed in Joseph Smith’s revelations. Spoiler alert: She denounced the letter as a complete forgery.
Video transcript: bit.ly/3yatzWD
- See “Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, prophet's wife, ‘Elect lady,’ polygamy's foe, 1804-1879,” by Linda King Newell & Valeen Tippetts Avery, pgs. 221-226: bit.ly/3xlFsYk
- “New Light on the Sun: Emma Smith and the New York Sun Letter” by Linda King Newell & Valeen Tippitts Avery (very similar to “Mormon Enigma”: bit.ly/39tL0Z4
- “Times and Seasons” (Jan. 15, 1846) in which Emma’s denial was published (pg. 1096): bit.ly/3xvCcK6
- “James Arlington Bennet and the Mormons,” via BYU Studies: bit.ly/3b4JqwZ
- Bennet’s response to “Emma’s” letter, pub. Dec. 19, 1845, in New York Sun: bit.ly/3mUYAI2
- Letter from James Arlington Bennet to Brigham Young, Nov. 18, 1845. States that Emma is against the Twelve (the date of this letter is two days before the date on the forgery sent to the New York Sun): bit.ly/3xXrFsL
- For additional letters sent to and from James A. Bennet, type “James Arlington Bennet letters” into the search bar here: catalog.church... . You can filter results to only see those letters available digitally.
- “Joseph Smith’s Presidential Platform” via Dialogue Journal (some discussion of James Arlington Bennet here): bit.ly/3bkwhQw
Notes:
- In 1952, Raymond Bailey dedicated 3.5 pages to this topic, out of his near-200-page MA Thesis. Bailey was “inclined to believe that Emma wrote the letter, and when there were so many repercussions from it, she published a denial of it.” This was more or less the conclusion that the Instagram user in question came to. However, Bailey does not go into detail about what these “many repercussions” were, nor does he consider the body of evidence later collected by Newell & Avery against Bennet. Point being: It seems to me that this is an outdated and largely baseless perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but new evidence should be taken into account as it comes forward. I don’t necessarily fault Bailey for not assimilating information into his opinion that was unavailable at the time (it was the 1950s, for heaven’s sake), but the Instagram user in question seemed to intentionally downplay or ignore the evidence that did not favor their personal belief. You can read Bailey’s thesis here (pgs. 142-145): bit.ly/3zCOWRO
- The Messenger and Advocate (the newspaper of Sidney Rigdon’s breakoff group by this time) gives some thoughts on the New York Sun’s “Emma Smith” publication in the following link. They express doubt that it was written by her. “Whether Mrs. Smith is the author of the letter or not, we do not pretend to say, but with us, it is a matter of very serious doubt….” Source: bit.ly/3xALTa3
- James Bennet was interested in positions of ecclesiastical power. After Joseph died, he wrote to apostle Willard Richards, stating that he’d had a dream in which the spirits of Joseph and Hyrum appeared to him, and an angel had placed a crown on his head while they were present. Years later, he wrote to Joseph Smith III of the Reorganized Church and claimed to have a letter from Joseph Smith in his possession which apparently promised him (Bennet) the prophetic mantle. Sources: bit.ly/3zK7FuR / bit.ly/3b4JqwZ , respectively.
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Personally, I think that the fact she stuck with Joseph faithfully to the end speaks volumes for her belief. Their life was frequently a living hell, and I should think that if she had decided to leave at any point, her parents would have been more than happy to assist her in any way possible. Her unwavering loyalty to her husband stands alone as ample evidence. By their fruits we shall know them - and that's some pretty pristine fruit right there!
Conned by con man and maybe ashamed to admit it so she stayed
@@merricat3025 A con man?
@@merricat3025 By the way, what is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
@@merricat3025you’re the con man, cowboy! 6:13
@@merricat3025😂😂😂
David you're such a gift to this generation,My utmost thanks and applause for all u do and I just can't stop learning and praying for you and I seen christ greatly shine thru you and I love you so much
God bless you Dave.
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. Thanks for watching our videos!
I love Emma's rebuttal letter. People back then had such a way with words, especially when they were angry. 😆
Right? It makes me wish that I had that skill.
It's so crystal clear if Emma denies it many times to the best that she could so it means the letter is just an evil forgery. Case closed.
Why?
Thank you once again for piecing together the context. It's so difficult to do that now, and you manage to do that for things almost 200 years ago. I'm very grateful for your work.
Can we just contemplate how awesome Emma is?
She was and is amazing. It took some time for the institutional Church to finally come around and be open to the awesomeness of her. I know Eliza R. Snow always defended Emma.
This claim is typical of all criticism of the Church of Jesus Christ. Sooner or later it unravels, and is revealed as either forgery or other falsehood, twisting, slander, distortion, half-truthing, etc. Just break it down, piece by piece, and every issue, every criticism falls apart, eventually - every time.
I've been doing that for 40 years after converting from Presbyterian Church.
The restoration is just simply True.
Spiritually and logically.
🙏
What about the destroying of the nauvoo expositor?
@@Dragonsslaya Nice baited quick-question-dodge, but anyone like myself who has studied that incident in depth knows there's no "there there," and you know it. If you want to take shots at the Church, there are plenty of dark places on the internet to do it, not here on this faith-affirming channel.
@@michaelpeterson6174 Woah, I don't think he was trying to bait/dodge anything. He just asked a question. Unless he deleted a previous comment or something?
Joself Smith the 3rd asked a few questions to Emma. She answered all of his questions. Two months later Emma passed away.
I love Emma Smith and love learning about her 💛 thank you for all you do to present truth!
Sorry Brother Brigham. You did a great job of establishing the church in the Rocky Mountains, but you had it wrong about Emma. Hopefully you two will hash it out in the eternities.
Moral of the story: "Never follow lies, misinformation, gossip, or anything that deviates from the truth." ...Bless you, my man! :D
Never follow lies or misinformation, but is a Mormon… 🙄
@@tattooedwhitetrash exactly🤣
You do such an amazing job with these videos, making such complex topics makes sense. Thanks for all you do!
Wow, way to set the record straight. Shame how many people will buy that instagram post wholesale.
One thing that this series has shown is that the amount of haters and the amount of misinformation about the church in its early days and now is HUGE! My question is, why? If people are so convinced that Joseph lied about the whole thing, why is there so much effort to try to discredit the foundation of the restored church, to the point of writing forged letters and then claiming such lies to be the truth? Why is it so hard to look at the facts for what they are? Honestly, this year has been one of spiritual growth for me, I was not going through a faith crisis or anything I was pretty solid in my conviction, but diving further into church history and learning what the church and the critics are saying has only strengthened my faith, indeed this IS the restored church of Christ! Thank you Sainst Unscripted for all you do! Because not all of us have the time, resources or the knowhow to even begin to know where to look for information as precious as this, thank you again and may God bless all of you for what you do!
@@joeoleary9010 hahahahahahahahaha
@@joeoleary9010 you know, I've come to the point that I now wonder what you will do in the last day, when Christ himself will testify to this generation that He did appear to Joseph along with Elohim the Father. What will you do? My apologies I don't mean to sound arragent but I don't feel the need to argue over stuff like this anymore, I've done it to many times already. My friend, for some reason or another the truth is that you DO want this false letter from Emma to be true, because you don't wish to face the truth. That this IS Christ's church. You want it to be true, because you have chosen to discredit the Book of Mormon as scripture. Have you read the BOM? I mean really read it? Analize it? Thought about it? Prayed about with pure intent? If so, then you will come to know that the work is true. That Mormon was an actual person, that all of the characters were real people. What? You think that an uneducated farm boy could write all of that in less then 3 months and in one draft? And what about the many spiritual confirmations that I and millions have received? You think fighting the church by defending lies is going to stop this Gospel from reaching every corner of the earth? If this is what you think then my friend I'm telling you now, you are waisting your time. Repent and come to Christ, and if you really don't believe, then why are you waisting your time viewing videos like these? Go forth and be productive, do something that is uplifting for you, instead of being a sour person and trying to discredit truth to members of this church. Search for happiness instead of misery, because from that small comment, that's what I get from you and feel from you, misery, and I will not give it company.
Thank you David. Enjoy Conference.
Great research and follow-up. Personally, I genuinely appreciate your thoroughness and efforts to effectively, through available evidence to debunk the myriad misrepresentations and falsities rampant on social media in these (corrupt) latter days.
AWESOME, thank you David!
Good content, keep up the diligent research. Stories like these show how petty and probably mentally unhinged church critics are. If one loses interest in the church or chooses to leave it because the life style is too strict or you find proven church doctrine and history to be weird or unethical; go ahead and live your life. But as shown by some of the comments below, there are some who obsess and spend more time "researching" the lds church than actual mormons, and often go to such lengths as LYING in stories like this to justify their time wasted. And since they're always on the offensive, not having faith or values of their own to defend, whenever they get caught lying or doing poor research they can just shrug it off and say "eh" and move on to the next lie.
You said it right 😂😂😂 they should just shut up and stop lying and live the life they choose.
To be fair the material in this video (the forged "admission" of Emma) isn't something that an honest critic of the church would bring up. You'd never see this in the CES letter or a video on the "10 Problems with Mormonism" etc. You'd see more solid criticisms like the problems with the Book of Abraham or the fact that the only church on this planet today that can actually trace its lineage to Joseph Smith isn't even the LDS church, but the Community of Christ. And to describe people who bring these genuine concerns up as "mentally unhinged" is a pretty cheap shot and frankly, disingenous.
@@alienwarex51i3 the ces letter has been prone to lying. Either by taking things out of context or by accepting untrustworthy sources.
@@alienwarex51i3 you go read through the content of these 'honest critics' you mention such as the CES letter guys and tell me with a straight face their writings aren't "cheap shots" or disingenuous of the character of JS or mormon doctrine.
@@larryheights8553 can you tell me why I should believe Joseph’s claims when he was a treasure digger who used folk magic? The guy never found any treasure for anyone else and then all the sudden he finds gold plates???
Amazing how people who put out anti materials love to take only part of the context and fail to do real research
Most anti-LDS use to believe the LDS church. Then they found out more and they've got more context than the members. But cutting to the chase is more effective. Meanwhile, the church overlooks very troubling things and says "it's still true" because the members invested a lot into the church. Time, effort, emotions, money. Time spent in church meetings, time spent volunteering to help out, time spent preparing talks and lessons to help fulfill callings, time spent on a mission, time spent making food and preparations for an activity, time spent parenting all those kids they were commanded to have, time spent arguing with those kids that the they have to do x,y,z because the church said. If the church isn't true... that's a lot of time wasted. Not to mention the 10% of your income before tax. Don't pay that and you can't get into the temple. Can't get into the temple, you can't be sealed to your family. But lds don't believe in paying your way into heaven. Or in priest craft. Oh no, not this church. It's true.
@@unicorntamer2207 hmmm…. What you describe here reminds me of a parable which I will tell you:
There were two women who were employed under the company of one boss. She was a very demanding boss. She had many tasks these women had to do for her to be pleased with their efforts to build up the company. The first employee (we’ll call her Mary) worked hard and did everything her boss asked of her. But at the end of the day each day, she did not agree with the vision this boss wanted to take the company, while the other woman (Lucy) did. Mary worked and slaved away to do the work she disagreed with, and Lucy-though she didn’t always understand-believed that her boss had more experience with the company that she and she trusted her boss’s vision. Eventually the anger Mary felt became resentment which built into anger and anger effected the relationship with her boss. Lucy did agree with some things that her boss did, but still kept an open mind, hoping that she would see why the boss wanted things done this way. Mary worried that if she didn’t quit soon, she would risk being fired from the company. Lucy stayed and kept doing the tasks. She began to see her boss’s vision and began to understand. Because she agreed with that vision, she kept going and did the tasks willingly. Mary did not. And she did all her tasks begrudgingly. The day came when Mary came to her boss and said, “That’s it! I’ve had it with you! I don’t like where you are taking this company, and I don’t agree that I need to do the tasks this way to accomplish great things.” Her boss was sad that she did not see the same vision. Nevertheless, her boss signed the papers for the resignation and left her to find a job in a company she did agree with. Lucy who continued with the company only saw toward the end of the project why the boss had so many strict rules and procedures for how things were done. She was able to be rewarded for her hard, willing work.
Both of these employees were well loved and worked hard. But the difference is, one of them did the work because she agreed with the vision of the boss. and even though the work was hard for Lucy to do, the motive of why she did it gave her the reward in the end. Mary never got to see that reward. She drifted from company to company until she started to realize that her first boss had it right to begin with.
The reality is that we are each on a journey, and God‘s goal for us is to figure out truth and how to manifest true love and true truth. We are here to learn to discern between good and evil and to figure out how to promote positive energy into the universe. we are here to learn to be healed, and then in turn to heal others. The Boss knows how to heal the world. Doing with the Boss says is the way. The competing companies would like to deter people away from the true way to accomplish the purposes of life, beauty, love, and awe. They won’t ever be the king company because a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
In time, people will eventually learn that there is only one true company lead by one true Boss and that that Boss is God and hHis church is the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. And if people serve that church without having the vision for that church, they will eventually fall away. Only those who taste of the love and goodness of the glory of God and who care about that more than the world will truly be able to continue working in that company. That is why there are three kingdoms of glory.
@@zionmama150 thanks for taking the time to write all that out.
@@joeoleary9010 so we’re supposed to believe speculation…? And she’s automatically guilty even though she took the time to write the guy back and deny she ever said it?
Emma was pissed when she caught Joe in the barn with a another 19 year old girl too! She never wanted Joe to marry any other woman. She hated polygamy, and she hated Brigham Young too! Look that up, and report back!
I'm convinced she did not buy section 132, you know, the 'Joseph is given many women, and Emma will be "destroyed" if she gets in the way'. That section 132. I'm pretty sure she saw that as hogwash. But she likely believed other of Joseph's claims. Wish we had actual video/audio of her. Joseph married up, for sure Go Emma!
Here are some questions I have always had.
Is Emma Smith going to the Telestrial Kingdom for separating herself from the Brighamites?
Does she lose her sealing to Joseph Smith for not following the covenant path and joining the RLDS group?
I think (for me) the best answer to these kinds of questions is: we don't know and it's none of our business.
Final judgment rests with God and the Savior. Anything we can say would be imperfect hearsay. And, when it comes down to it, Emma's choices don't affect me, and there's really nothing for me to gain by stewing on it.
@@mcguireflute The reason I ask is that some members have a very difficult time when a family member leaves the Church, so much to the point that it creates hospitality and even divorce.
Policy of the church says that if your name is removed from the records of the church, then you lose all your saving ordinances as if you never had them, including baptism, endowment, and all Priesthood and Temple blessings including Celestial Marriage. But what you are saying is we really don't know and it's none of our business. So why even have such a harmful policy if we really don't know?
There is a book about the life of Emma smith called judge me dear reader, a good read.
New to your channel and I love it. You may have addressed this in an episode so I either need the episode title or number or wonder if you have ever addressed Heavenly Mother. I have friends/family that struggle with trying to be like HF when they want to be like HM. Have bad earthly fathers Any guidance would be great to share your insight with them. They feel the church excludes feminine divinity. Thanks!
Yes!! th-cam.com/video/tS_ZBaORQr4/w-d-xo.html
And this: th-cam.com/video/7Wbvf3OqANk/w-d-xo.html
@@SaintsUnscripted thank you so much!
I dont think she liked or believed in the polygamy part
Great article I would say you should be critically hesitant about everything you read online :-)
If she believed she would have followed Brigham Young.
Might want to ask her about the one with the flaming sword...
Yep I fully admit that Emma seemed to have rejected D&C 132 when it was initially presented to her. I think that's a totally fair point to make. However, there's a wide chasm between rejecting one single revelation and rejected "all" of Joseph's visions and revelations (as claimed in the forgery addressed in the video). Despite rejected D&C 132, it seems clear that Emma otherwise wholeheartedly believed in Joseph's prophetic calling.
@@davidsnell2605 I think you've shown rather well that it's at least debatable and pretty likely that Emma didn't write the blanket-denial letter in question. But this seems to then be a bit of a straw-man in the broader question of, are these "revelations" from a loving, personal God? Or were they all too often convenient for the revelator... such as 132? And if Emma is right to reject that on its face, why aren't LDS faithful today free to challenge any similar revelation that makes them similarly uncomfortable? Or, perhaps more apt to current day... where's the modern revelation at all? This seems, like miracles, to be only the domain of unfalsifiable history. It's too risky to receive revelation in the age of the Internet.
@@bradrjones1 no straw-man intended. The questions you've brought up are valid, but they were just not the subject of this video. The goal of this video was simply to address these specific claims against Emma.
"why aren't LDS faithful today free to challenge any similar revelation that makes them similarly uncomfortable?"
I would argue that they are totally free to do that. Feel free to shoot me a message on Facebook if you'd like to discuss this further. Have a great day!
@@bradrjones1lol, where are Josephs kids if he used it for sex? There were marriages but they were more for sealing and legal purposes
@@TheSwedishHistorian Dude, seriously? But even if I concede your point and we stipulate he was totally monogamous... a 14 year old?
No letter? No smoking gun.
Well, she didn't go to Utah. She may have believed but she stayed with the break off group in the Mid West.
Thank GOD the Eternal FATHER, & HIS WIFE, GODDESS, our beloved HOLY Eternal MOTHER, our Prophet JOSEPH SMITH, his obedient.
Couldn't care less if she did or not. Jesus' own mother and brothers tried to stop his ministry.
Also it's the sun.. they aren't exactly the most unbiased
Was it true that she was not the first to be sealed to Joseph Smith?
It's not easy to be an anti. You even questions your existence.
Again John C. Bennet 🙄
Impressive letter by Emma. Public, to Bennett.
Careful but effectively worded.
I have even more respect for Emma.
And even less for Bennett.
Now I understand why Joseph Smith ordered the destruction of that printing press.. they were harassing his wife
Do we have reason to believe Emma believed the revelation that became Doctrine and Covenants 132?
It seems pretty well documented that when D&C 132 was first presented to Emma, she rejected it as a revelation. I think that's a totally fair point to make. However, there's a wide chasm between rejecting one single revelation and rejected "all" of Joseph's visions and revelations (as claimed in the forgery addressed in the video). Despite rejected D&C 132, it seems clear that Emma otherwise wholeheartedly believed in Joseph's prophetic calling.
@@davidsnell2605 Do you believe that Doctrine and Covenants 132 was a direct revelation from god?
@@mikefoxtrot1314 it would depend on what you mean by "direct revelation from god." Here are a few quotes that I think embody my position on this issue well. In no particular order:
Orson Pratt, 1872: “Joseph the Prophet in writing the Doctrine & Covenants, received the ideas from God, but clothed those ideas with such words as came to his mind[.]”
BYU Professor Grant Underwood, 2009: “Some Latter-day Saints may assume that the Prophet was not involved in any way whatsoever with the wording of the revelation texts, that he simply repeated word-for-word to his scribe what he heard God say to him, but our investigation has suggested otherwise. Examination … [of the revelations] leads us to a richer, more nuanced view, one that see[s] Joseph as more than a mere human fax machine through whom God communicated finished revelation texts composed in heaven. Joseph had a role to play in the revelatory process.”
BYU Professor Steven Harper, 2012: “...as a mortal decoder imprisoned by a broken language, Joseph originally received the revelations imperfectly. ‘He never considered the wording infallible’ and he continued to revise and amend his revelation texts throughout his life to reflect his latest understanding and to increase their ability to communicate the mind of God.”
Brigham Young, 1855: "I do not even believe that there is a single revelation, among the many God has given to the Church, that is perfect in its fulness… He has to speak to us in a manner to meet the extent of our capacities…. The laws that the Lord has given are not fully perfect, because the people could not receive them in their perfect fulness; but they can receive a little here and a little there, a little to-day and a little to-morrow, a little more next week, and a little more in advance of that next year, if they make a wise improvement upon every little they receive….”
In short, I accept D&C 132 as inspired scripture, though I don't consider inspired scripture to be infallible nor generally the directly "repeated-as-heard" literal words of God. I consider it Joseph's best attempt to convey God's will, but I generally leave plenty of room for error, incompleteness, and/or additional revelation.
@@davidsnell2605 Do you think that the verses in Section 132 that are specifically directed at Emma are more likely to be a message from god to Emma or more likely to have been Joseph’s additions to a revelation?
@@mikefoxtrot1314nothing strange about. Polygamy is well recorded in the bible
She had witnessed her husband's family annihilated and was threatened that if she spoke of anything of Joseph or his work she would be killed and her children also... yeah... she denied everything to save her kids
I submit that IT’S NOT ENOUGH to know ABOUT the lies and false accusations and that they WERE/ARE INDEED lies and false accusations, but that one be aware, thoughtful, intelligent, and interested enough to ask this question:
***WHY were/are lies and false accusations concocted and publicized against a target?
Think about it.
And remember-they did it to Jesus and His Apostles & followers in their day.
Some things haven’t changed much in 2000 years. Some things HAVEN’T CHANGED AT ALL.
A lie is a lie, and a liar a liar, no matter what guise they hide behind -even if it’s the clothes of a preacher/pastor, a reporter/journalist, or the expensive dress clothes of a polished looking U.S. Judge, Senator, or President. If one is a knowing dispenser of lies and false accusations, who then is their father?
If you know who the target of liars are, you know where to start looking for Truth.
-Randall
51 of his prophecies failed.
None of Joseph Smith's prophecies failed.
Emma and Joe were complicated people with a complicated relationship with each other -- and with telling the truth. Emma surely knew, on some level, that Joseph Smith was full of it . After all, the 'Word of Wisdom' revelation was "received" shortly after she specifically requested that Joseph have a revelation about drinking and tobacco. And when Joseph began taking multiple child brides (which was not normal for the time), Emma's immediate reaction does not indicate that she believed he received this command from God. This particular matter is either lost to history, or securely under lock and key in the Granite Mountain Vault where it will never hurt anybody's testimony.
Now before you post something like this, you need to go to the history books, and there are other postings on TH-cam about Emma. Now the women or wife’s will understand this. The golden plates were in the house. She says she frequently moved them. They were under the bed. She felt them and noted them to be metallic and thin. I think all women can appreciate something that their husband has in the house and they are constantly moving it. Furthermore, her mental status was well documented just prior to her death. She could only whisper, but she was clear mentally. She did state that she believed her husband. She opted to be buried next to Joseph Smith and that is revealing. There are TH-cam postings about those last few days. Well good try. There are other topics you can work on. Yet this one displays lack of preparation. I think you should delete it. I think it’s a little embarrassing myself.
She believed Joe was marring a whole lot of teenagers behind her back …Poor
woman…..👎🏽👎🏽
So cringe
Oh yeah, Emma loved the church and polygamy and that’s why she moved out to Salt Lake City with her children who were long-standing members of the LDS faith. 😂
I only like this unscripted Saint. The others are the definition of what is wrong with singles ward.
They're all married except Caleb (I think he's not married)
@@anthonyrippa686 Totally agree, he should start his own channel.
Spin and more spin! You do not mention that Joseph Smith did not tell Emma his new revelation about Polygamy, and how he had relations with women unbeknownst to Emma.
That’s a red herring, mentioning something unrelated to the topic with only hearsay and no evidence. If a person publishes multiple statements denouncing a letter that was claimed to be from them as a forgery, that’s pretty good evidence it was a forgery, like perhaps many other slanderous stories are.
@@boltrooktwo I think Emma believed in many of Joseph's revelations. But that doesn't mean that Joseph's revelations were from God.
You do know that this channel has several videos on that subject right? Take a scroll, grab a snack, and hold on tight.
@@unicorntamer2207 That which has people turn to God, pray to God, worship God..... means IS of God....--signed God
@@suem6004 There are plenty of people who claim to speak for God. And plenty of people follow each individual and claim that their leader is the one speaking for God. And all the other individuals are liars and the following people are brainwashed. So who speaks for God?
Your insertion of comedy falls flat EVERY TIME with such serious and spiritual topics and takes people out of the moment and drives away any spirit of peace and truth that is manifest. You probably play Metallica during the sacramental prayer to give the meeting more pep.
It’s funny when you people will try and knock down anyone who is against the LSD false so called “church” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Real funny Xander. It's just that there are so many ignorant people that say stupid stuff like you.
It's funny that you think mocking other people's faith makes you important.
@@DannyAGray is this the same Danny Gray that commented on @Hello Saints channel under the recent video between jeff and David bashing us Catholics ?
“Over been deeply studying Catholicism for about 4 years. While I respect your faith and your devotion to it , I see no evidence that it was established by Christ himself , and if it were it’s definitely fallen far far far from its roots. If I ever stepped away from my own faith , Catholicism would probably be my 20th option , after I tried Hinduism , Buddhism , and Scientology.”
“Again, I have nothing against you as a person in your pursuit of God - as long as you’re constantly searching , you go with what feels right to you - but Catholicism in general has got some pretty sketchy stumbling blocks that just don’t make sense”
“The trinity is not first century doctrine. Original sin doctrine is definitely not first century. Infant baptisms are actually a relatively new doctrine, and a disgusting one at that. Catholicism has a deep history of cardinals killing the pope to steal the position; I’m pretty sure God didn’t approve of that ever. And none of that is even getting into the evil of the current pope . That dudes got problems.”
“Point to me specific passages where infants are baptized. You’re using revisionist history to make crap up that doesn’t work. Nautical babies - or worse , damming then prior to baptism or damnation without baptism - is unjust , cruel , and disgustingly shameful. It is not biblically founded and was introduced as a scare tactic . Your pope is a menace who constantly pushes political narratives instead of being a man of God . He has no thought of the kingdom of God , only the fame of the world . And , like all popes , he has no true authority from God.”
These are all quotes from comments you made under the recent video of hello saints . I’ve taken screenshots to make sure you don’t delete them .
So when you say “it’s funny that you think mocking other people’s faith makes you important”
Is that not mocking ? Why is it that everyone has to bend over to the dumb LSD church but you can run your disgusting little mouth mocking others ?
Huh
@@xander-mk4ck I don't like the pope. I don't like the idea of damming babies. I think popes have long corrupted catholicism and led people astray. I don't blame catholic believers, I blame popes. That's not mockery. You believe what you want; I don't have to agree with you to respect you as a person.
You people are so quick to defend your lies 😂
It makes you think that maybe they’re not lies. Also, when you say “you people,” are you referring to white people, Americans, Pennsylvanians, English-Americans, Christians, early opponents of tobacco use, or women? Saying ’you people’ is the stupidest thing you can say. Everyone is a member of so many groups. We’re all “intersectional.”
@@TBIhope By "you people" they probably mean apologeticals of the LDS church.
Please point out the specific lie defended in this video. If there is no lie, then it is you that has lied by claiming they have done so. And furthermore, it was a lie made in defense of another lie.
Projection much? Reminds me of a quote from the devil: D&C 10:25
“ Yea, he saith unto them: Deceive and lie in wait to catch, that ye may destroy; behold, this is no harm. And thus he flattereth them, and telleth them that it is no sin to lie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him.”
😂Because we all know the internet is a beautiful place where people state opinions and the people who disagree just sit and take it except those dirty Mormons. There aren't whole social media platforms stuffed with people going back and forth defending their beliefs on everything under the sun.
@@ottolovechild506 buddy that's not a prophecy, prophets have always made speculations, everyone does. Just because they are prophets does not mean they are infallible when they are speaking for themselves, speculation is speculation no matter who is speaking, you really need to understand what the difference is between prophecy and a prophet simply speaking about what they think might be in the universe. Belief in life in other parts of the solar system was common until even the mid-1900's, don't fault people in the past because they speculated on what was accepted at the time. You have a mild form of "presentism" here.
You are why I stay subscribed to this channel.