LUMIX S5 VS BMPCC6K DYNAMIC RANGE COMPARISON
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- In the neverending search for the perfect camera, I tested the Lumix S5 and the Black Magic Pocket 6K camera against each other. My go-to cam is the BMPCC6K and always shot in 6K RAW. Boy was I in for a suprise. Check out the comparison and let me know what you think below!
Bonus: Moire test at the end.
*Panasonic sent me a Lumix S5 to test out and give feedback. I made this project on my own dime and was not paid for any of this. My endorsement of this camera is purely my own opinion.
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This guy only has 319 Subcribers, but level of reviews and comparison is way beyond of other youtubers who have more than 100K Subcribers. Amazing work, real world examples like shooting in front of windows is just perfect.
LOL you got no reply from Peter even though you tried!
so true
The key is they post often which keeps them in the algorithm. If this guy posted at least 1 video a week he would have at least 10K to 20k subscribers right now. People can't subscribe if you don't have your videos popping up on their homepage.
Thank you Peter for taking the time to do these wonderful tests. They answered a lot of questions. There are some colors that the Pocket 6K does better than the S5 according to your tests, but then there are some colors that the S5 does better. And the recoverable shadow detail in the S5 is amazing. I'm sold on the S5. It's interesting, but you may be able to get better color if you try a different LUT. I bought the Juan Melara P6K2ALEXA LUT and I use it on the Pocket 6K footage and I am able to match my Arri Alexa shots very closely. I took the same LUT and applied it to some Panasonic S1 V-Log footage I had downloaded and I was amazed. It pulls out certain color variation subtleties that I couldn't get otherwise on the S1. You should give it a try. It's only $30 bucks. It may map out the colors on your S5 footage to give you a better red on that door.
Now the question is, S5 or A7SIII? I think that side-by-side, the S5 would probably render nicer skin tones than the Sony, but the Sony's rock-solid autofocus and full frame 4K60 and 4K120 make it a tough call. I guess I should buy both the S5 and the A7SIII. Haha.
No Prob! Its only in side by side you really see these differences. If I have a low budget job where I dont want to hassle with everything that comes with the bmpcc6k I'll use the S5.
Juan Melara is great! Ill have to check out his luts. I have been following Waqas Qazi, his colorgrading tutorials are killer! Juan doesnt post that much. I dont use luts that often, only film luts everyonce in a while. A7s3 is killer but its a one trick pony for me. There will be soon other cameras that shoot 4k 120, ill probably wait.
Do you by any chance remember if you used any lut to grade this s5 footage? Just bought it and the official vlog lut gives me red pink skintones and and it's super frustrating.
The blackmagic is shooting "Raw" (while not true raw, it is barley processed compared to the panasonic, which means it doesn't have as much NR if any at all applied. You need to apply it in post). The same goes for sharpness. Also the first test you did not do right. Re do it at iso 1000 and ETTR on the p6k then bring the iso down a little in post. This is how you retain more stops in the highlights and expose for the dark subject. You bring the iso down in post to obtain a cleaner image and get proper exposure after ETTR. I can't stand how many tests are done at iso 400 when this is clearly a situation that you shouldn't use it. Go look at the DR chart for the p6k and you'll see what I am saying. iso 400 is only good for controlled lighting situations and scenes without a ton of highlight information. Also for lowlight 1250 is the sweetspot of the camera and not 3200. 1250 will retain more stops of shadow detail and have a cleaner image. 3200 is usually fine too if needed (yes I'm aware it is the iso that has no gain or negative gain applied) but this is how dual native iso works. I'm getting tired of telling people this and the amount of shear misinformation about how the iso effects the DR allocation of this camera and cameras alike.
Your CA is caused by the lens and aperture. Plain and simple and has nothing to do with the camera nor the codec used. Also again the panasonic is processed in camera and could be fixing the CA in camera. If you used the same lenses between the two cameras then this would clearly explain why there is CA on the p6k.
Finally someone who understands all of this... Thanks.
I hope Peter Roessler Understands all that Micah Ross is pointing out. In summary, your settings on the Pocket6k is totally wrong.
yes most youtubers dont know this information 800-1000 iso give good amount of information in highlights also i owned the s1 and i cant even compare the colors and filmilc look the p6K is far better the DR of panasonic is good but i hate the colors and the slow mostions 120P is unusable and as tone of grain
100%
@@NathanKatash 120 fps om s1h much better in fhd vs bm6k in 2.6k - Like a soap. I saw dozens video on ytb, it cant be upscaled to 4k. But Panasonic fhd 120 fps u can upscale and result is good.
I'm using the S1 for one year now, that shares the same sensor and DR, and I'm really happy with the results I'm getting from it! Panasonic did a great job with these codecs!
Panasonic has always been good for video. But autofocus really sucks. Which is a shame.
@@alibinfarman I don't use autofocus...so it's fine for me.
Luca Bono great to hear! As a non-autofocus user (Bmpcc6k life). The autofocus works great for me. I can Setup the S5 for an interview and go concentrate on the 2nd cam.
@@shootMEpeter doesn't it have problems with the background in these interview situations? Saw quite some video's where the background pulses quite a bit, which is distracting.
I feel like shooting raw is what caused the noise, since typically H.264 encodings have noise reduction baked-in. I would have loved to see the BMPCC6K exposed to its 'full potential,' that is, with the highlights overexposed but pulled back in post (which is possible due to RAW).
Jordan Lin yeah raw is noisier, I’ve had the Bmpcc6k for a while and I’m confident in the way I exposed it. I set the highlights to the point where they were just recoverable and the highlight recovery box wasn’t needed.
Don't forget S5 has an FF sensor with larger pixel pitch, so it's also more light sensitive. Sure Panasonic is doing some NR in-camera, but so is blackmagic - although to a much lesser degree. Braw is partially debayered in camera, and there is a light NR tweaking in there too. That's why they got almost half a stop of DR on the UMP with braw. It's cleaner in the shadows if you compare it to CDNG.
Stefan Tasic in all reality, I would consider the DR of these cameras to be close enough for any project I would work on. The S5 is now my roninS cam 100% due to the fact it will match colors well (with a little more work than what I put into the vid) with the Bmpcc6k. Not to mention FF, super light, and autofocus.
Curious to see what raw coming out of it does, hopefully braw at some point via BM monitor.
@@shootMEpeter Absolutely. For most jobs both will do just fine. The choice comes down to other things, like if you need active cooling, or if you need a true hybrid, but in terms of image quality both cameras come pretty close. It will be interesting to see how prores raw compares.
You right the S5 has a softer image.... Bmpcc6k it is sharper and that means S5 it is using some auto noise reduction....
i been looking at alot of BMPCC 6k vs Everything (C70, A7siii, s5, GH6 etc.) and I can't get over how much more "filmic" the BlackMagic 6k cameras produces vs specifically Panasonic, whose image seems to be very digital and video-y. BlackMagic has that...filmic look...for me its in the movement, and overall 'look' of the image - i.e. even in the simple panning tests from 7:11 to 7:41, the s5 image seems to be rendering frame to frame or something - like there's a bit of a stutter due to the codec itself whereas, the BlackMagic seems to be flowing easily, creating a more believable scene - everything looks organic, like its supposed to be there. Just wanted to know if anyone else thought the BM crushes any camera around it's price range, if its the filmic look one's going for.
Absolutely agreed with you. I also see how BM is looks like cinematic and Panasonic in same time as perfect digital. But Cinematic means more organic than just perfect digital.For digital we can use smartphones which every next year doing a better quality of images.
Nice comparison, you really put in time and effort into the video. Thanks for your work. Really shows what lumix s5 is capable of. I would love to see a comparison of the BMPCC6K vs Lumix S5 Mark 2, that will be really awesome
This made my choice clear, S5 it is. Ordered :D
@@Thevikingcam they did you choise wrong :D Blackmagic have no such noises in such shots like here, it's something that autor did with a options, ISO etc ;)
@@NatLifeSounds nah, s5 is full frame. And is photo camera. AF too.
@@Thevikingcam depends from what you need. I have a full frame camera, and I need a cinematic camera not a digital camera. My Google Pixel can do the same amazing digital pictures
In my tests the S5/S1 in V-log has about a stop more DR than the P6K but the BRAW codec is much more flexible in terms of actually exploiting large DR scenes and you can ‘break’ the internal codec on the S5 so the practical advantage is less. Once you start to use NR in resolve the shadow depth in the P6K is remarkable. Not just tonal detail but also colour separation. For high ISO the S1/5 really pulls ahead and they are true low light cameras. Good as the S1/5 are in tests and specs the colour ‘ fidelity’ of the P6K is enough ahead to choose it over the S1/5 if situations allows. They both complement each other so any serious shooter should own both esp if you shoot high frame rates as the aps-c crop on the S1/5 is very much inferior to the P6k full frame.
I’d like to know the glass used for each camera. As well as if you graded in Da Vinci.
Why do you have only 1.5K subscribers. We can see that you care about the output and put an effort to make the review less of a YT-style content and trying it to make it more cinematic, so to speak. New sub here.
Panasonic is still so videoish. There's no match of Raw footage vs H.264 to a trained eye. S5 is a great camera, would be even greater if it shot raw video in camera. I am torn between Sigma FP and Panasonic S5. The only thing is I do a lot of photography with strobes and Sigma FP can sync only upto 1/15 sec. What a disaster.
P.S. keep making videos, you explain stuff very nicely. Would love to see more content here. Already subbed.
you losing a lot of stops by using the wrong iso for the Blackmagic. It has dual native iso and in low light you want the lower iso, in high light you wanna bring it up. it's counterintuitive
You sir are a freakin genius !! Thanks for this comparison test . I was getting tired of everyone else’s “ s5 has horrible focus” videos
yeah man. Thanks!
true but af is becoming so reliable especially with these smaller mirrorless cameras, being able to fly on a gimble or steady cam with reliable af and 10bit....oh boy this would destroy everything in its price range
Being a stock footage creator, I learnt lesson that never invest money in DSLR systems. Those work better for youtube work. But for pure commercial needs those fail pretty badly. Invest money into the camera which is purely optimized for video. If I have to choose between the two for footage work, I will go for BMPCC 6k any day. I can manage the footage in post production.
MysticSoul yeah the Bmpcc6k is a beast and would fit into most high end production workflows. These little mirrorless cameras have come a long way though! I don’t know if we will be able to define how good a camera is by the body it comes in for long!
@@shootMEpeter The core issue is 4k or 6k still remains the size of image. It does not have any correlation with quality. That's where DSLR makers pull the wool before eyes. Old folks still trust 12MP camera with good sensor size and great pixel quality. Almost all DSLR makers fool the people by just scaling the size. The quality of sensor remains good for images not for video.
MysticSoul does that also mean the Sony a7SIII is an exception with its 12MB sensor?
@IM HO well said!
You're chromatic aberration is dictated by your lenses optics, Also, Noise can and will be introduced by the Speed of your lens when Not shooting in the camera's Native ISO.
When doing these type of tests, You must use the same exact glass and industry Codecs on Both, Or the test means nothing.
Do the test on both cameras in ProRez 4:2:2 10 or 12 Bit and the results will surprise you.
Just giving you a Heads Up.
noise is dictated by where your exposure lies on the ire scale, let's your aperture is a f/11, that's pretty slow. But if you add enough lights to bring your image from the noise floor then you wont have any noise, regardless of what number your aperture is set. Iso (not from raw images) makes your sensor more sensitive to light, once you raise your iso you're also raising your noise floor, so you're making it in more prominent thus reducing your dynamic range. Both the aperture and iso can introduce noise, but as long as your exposure is not hitting the noise floor then it doesn't matter what number are on those settings. Hope this helps :).
That doesn't make sense, if you wanna compare apples and pears you gotta taste both and say what you like more. One camera is h264, the other Braw. Test to the strengths and use cases and compare the footage.
Darryl is absolutely correct, but I'd like to add to what he said. Just because iso 400 is the native ISO on the pocket doesn't mean it's the better ISO. When you're shooting Braw, it doesn't matter since all the info is saved. ISO 100 is dramatically cleaner than 400, so stopping down the aperture to prevent overexposure (highlights that can be saved in post) while forcing the camera to shoot at iso 400 puts the Pocket 6K at a strong disadvantage.
hey Bud shooting in RAW in this comparison was kinda unfair to the Pocket. I think if you would have did this test using ProRes it would have been cleaner or Denoise the footage if your going strength for strength
Hey! I dont know enough about prores on the bmpcc6k to say that it would be better. I dont think it increases dynamic range of the camera (especially with the highlight recovery) and its also not 12-bit. Those two things would be my reason for not using it. I would use the bmpcc6k any day of the week for big projects over the s5. To me the out of the box quality of the s5 means its a huge value for matching to the bmpcc6k and gimbal work because it fits so well on a ronin. Of course on final projects I would denoise, but on my 10bit monitor (which cant be shown on youtube compression) the noise was beyond repair in the extreme situations. Thanks for the dialogue!
Just subscribed and really loved this. A Panasonic rep recommended it so you're being watched lol! You should ask for a free camera :p
I have the S1H but we're looking for some new cameras at work and the debate is between the S5 and the BMPCC6K so this is perfect timing! Everything is stronger with the S5 except for that one point about the BMPCC6K looking more filmic. The BMPCC6K almost blooms in the highlights. I'd be curious to see how the S5 looked with a 1/8th promist compared to the BMPCC6K. I'm also curious about how the S1H would compare with OLPF. Maybe your next video!
If Panasonic rep recommended it to you. Peter may have got it for free already. :-)
Use vintage glasses on the s5, turns the s5 into a whole different animal
Full-frame vs Apsc = The winner is always full-frame, there is no way.
I've never seen such noisy blackmagic footage before. What did you do wrong?
I hope somewhere in all these comments someone else has already pointed out the obvious...the S5 has noise reduction baked-in, while the P6K expects it to be done in post. Comparing the two straight out of camera and thinking you are demonstrating better dynamic range is simply wrong-headed. And if you think you can't clean-up that amount of noise in post, you haven't learnt how to use Resolve.
Hey! Yeah we’ve discussed that. There’s a few things to talk about. Braw has a certain amount of noise reduction applied. There’s a lot of compression with TH-cam and the results really come through not streaming. You would notice this if you wanted to punch in.
Finally the test really shows the capabilities of the S5 shooting against a raw 6k workflow. Even with the 6k image of the Bmpcc6k on a 4K timeline and the noise level getting squashed the S5 still looked sharp and had low noise.
Thanks for taking part in the discussion!
@Peter Roessler BRAW _does not_ do intentional noise reduction. Extremely mild noise reduction is a _by-product_. That's not comparable to the intentional NR done in the Panasonic camera (I own two and use them every day) and not comparable to the actual NR tools in Resolve.
I'll say it again more forcefully, comparing shadow noise between a camera with NR (that you can't turn off even if you want to) and a camera without is disingenuous. Had you applied a comparable level of NR in Resolve you would have revealed similar levels of shadow detail.
You seem upset and that’s not my intention with this test. I don’t know how to convince you any further in my knowledge or experience in seeing the difference between noise and lack of anything recoverable by noise reduction.
Adding noise reduction would be more deceiving in a test because it is subjective. Knowing that the S5 has noise reduction is part of the test. Similar to the advantage of the Bmpcc6k being a 6k raw workflow.
@Peter Roessler I'm not upset, promise. 😉 I'm just calling attention to the fact that you're comparing apples to oranges - a pre-processed to an unprocessed image - and now you're now digging in on the mistake. Using Resolve's NR is part of the expected workflow for BMD cameras....that's why a Studio license is included in the box.
The Panny gives you a simple solution - the camera picks the NR for you. The BMD is more complicated - but gives more flexibility as you can control the amount of NR back in the edit bay. One isn't better than the other, just different.
But once again, to say the the S5 has better dynamic range or cleaner shadows is wrong-headed. It's simply pre-processed.
@@shootMEpeter Shoot me your BRAW clip and I'll show you. 😉
for the low light shots, IDK what lens you used but with my sigma 18 - 35 I get much better results in low light with my bmpcc4k and the metabones speedbooster.
Its so nice to see someone doing a proper dynamic range test in which we can see results in a real setting.
Out of the shadows. Thanks! That was the goal, something we as camera users, can see. Glad the examples worked out!
Hi Pete, it would be lovely to see a follow up video to this one next month (hopefully you still have access to these cameras).. but shooting BRAW 12 Bit 6K on the S5. This will make the comparison fairer and also reveal what the footage would look like without in-camera corrections on the S5. You would probably need a 12G HDR Recorder, of course. Thanks for this video though. It is a beautiful comparison, and relevant because these cameras do compete in a similar price range as cinema cameras.
Wow. This is great. I literally just pre ordered the S5 and this video just made me that much more happy that I did! Thank you!. New sub here! Great channel! 🙌
Crawfo Productions congrats! Your gonna like the S5. It’s a pretty awesome cam. Your gonna enjoy grading the footage too with that full vlog!
Peter Roessler Very excited! Thank you! Should match up good with my gh5 I hope! Need to buy v log for that one still. Boooo! 👎 lol
Crawfo Productions I’m assuming it will match up. I had someone shooting bts for with a Gh5s on my other S5 vid and it seemed to match. Not sure if (Gh5s color=gh5 color). Ha you’ll figure it out!
Thanks for putting this together. I've shot a lot on the S5 sensor in other cameras that use it too, and a good bit on the P6k/Zcam S6 sensor. Both are quality sensors, but the full frame sensor is just better all around. The full frame sensor just has very clean shadows and great low light performance. When the light goes its easy to see which camera is better. It would be interesting to see this test again once Pro Res RAW is released for S5, and see how that compares to the braw
Josh Kidd Films yeah man! It’s crazy the discussions I get into with my RED shooting friends about how amazing these cameras are (S5, Bmpcc6k etc).
I’m def looking forward to trying out the raw. The only issue for me is I edit on a pc and in resolve, hopefully BM comes up with a way to read the raw camera data and turn it into braw. Proresraw seems pretty limited from what I’m reading (no white balance adj, very limited controls). Thanks for taking part in the discussion!
@@shootMEpeter latest update has enabled the white balance adjustment for prores raw. Interestingly... This adjustment is available in select cams. S1H has it... Will see if S5 gets it too.
@@shootMEpeter th-cam.com/video/8HtwLJRUNEc/w-d-xo.html here is the link. Let us know if this update is any better compared to actual raw or even braw.
Thanks! But the firmware for raw isn’t out yet for the S5 right? I think Panasonic said it’s coming later.
@@shootMEpeter yes raw update for s5 isn't out yet. I was just mentioning the white balance adjustment part that has been taken care of in latest final cut pro update
The chromatic aberration comes from the lens not the camera 😣
ok so I was gonn a go for the 6k Pro but after watching a bunch of vid reviews, I'm really lovoing the s5 MK2 now... it's just ... beastly!
I am going to buy s5 but man bm looks so much better and cinematic compared to s5
Flim hey! Interesting. I’m curious what people see that makes it more “filmic”, I’m not disagreeing, there is something about the BM cameras that’s gives them a certain look. maybe the noise or the built in grain.
Softer look is more cinematic, I think bm sky color is more teal and s5 more blue , but man the s5 is a beast for the price range
Poll n Gina you can use beauty box to soften skin tones to make them more cinematic on the Panasonic...
@@BobbyWashingtonvlog Yeah straight from the camera , Blackmagic have a more filmic look . I have a s1h , but do like the blackmagic look .
Poll n Gina I prefer my S1H... so much I had to get a 2nd one for the ronin
Can you do thos again when all camera record raw file ? I thinks that not authentic ,,.
With prores raw? Yeah I was going to, but the workflow for prores raw sucks! haha. Im not convinced at the moment its worth it for me personally.
chromatic aberration comes from the lens either you shot on different lenses or the aperture was not the same ( unless s5 has built in camera chromatic aberration reduction in the image pipeline)
Panasonic S5 is so underrated camera....
Thank you so much, I wasn’t sure which one to get. Now I know. Great video, keep up the good work 💪🏼
Thanks. A bit strange that in some of the shots the BMPCC6K is soft compared to S5, while for moire test the S5 looks very soft. Why is that? And would be nice if you could comment on the ISOs for the lowlight parts.
Great, but Very important is to know what lenses you used?
Bmpcc 6K is a great camera in good lighting conditions. I own it for over an year. But it's time to sell it. I need a camera with low light capabilities and not necesarelly a cinema camera. I think I will go for a S5. It also has ibis so i can go handheld(I used a GH5 for an year and it was great).
I don’t know what settings you set - but according to all the previous videos, Black Magic in such lighting gave an ideal picture without any noise, and it loosed to Canon 1DX III in images in the darkest frames, but not in those where there is enough light. Panasonic is a good camera, but still it seems to me that you are advertising specifically for Panasonic) I don’t believe that Blackmagic makes such noise in such a fairly well-lit street
how did you shoot yourself by yourself ? I use old OG bmpcc but i am having hard time to shoot myself for youtube.
cheers man - not too scientific - not too run and gun - a pragmatic and artistic test - much appreciated - subbed - i kept seeing little bits and pieces on youtube about how clean panasonic's image was and you just confirmed it - would love to see you do an ibis test - there are very few online ibis tests and you might get some good views on such a test - i'm thinking sony vs panny vs fuji vs canon - anyway, peace :)
Well the s5 comes with noise reduction from the camera Bm being raw u have to add noose reduction first but will be higher quality . Done in the computer.
True. It isnt easy to show, but in Resolve in full res without TH-cam compression, you could see that there was no info left in the shadows on some of the images. In a proffesional scenario, I would light the scene, or blow out the sky to expose for the shadows, and do a sky replacement if it was that crucial.
The sum is that on paper the S5 has more dynamic range than the bmpcc6k - not a better cam, just has more DR
S5 shoots raw to any of the two external recorders out, Atomos or Blackmagic, so S5 technically wins because even with the Atomos it weights the same and costs the same LOL
Excellent video, I love the way you compared them! Good work Peter.
Your new friend in Warsaw :)
This video is so well done, goes in depth into the matter, great job!
I purchased the S5 few days ago after watching countless review! Unfortunately I found this video after the purchase, but I'm glad to see that your thorough tests, which represents real world scenario, confirms the good quality of this camera and its sensor/image processor!
The fact it's so good just using the internal recording is fantastic.
Having a Ninja V, I will try to record in RAW for sure!
Unfortunately not having a Mac I'm stuck with Premiere Pro for editing RAW, and as a new Davinci Resolve user is a big downside (not S5 fault though of course).
I put a like on your video of course and you gained a new subscriber!
Thanks for your work in this video.
Finally someone who knows how to deal with Resolve and what dynamic range really means. Thanks for the comparison!
the gamma is different and BM looks softer /+filmic but both look good .
Where I wish Panasonic would pay attention is user experience.
It’s weird to me they have not yet introduced a dedicated video/photo dial that changes the menu options visible to the user.
If I want to shoot video, I want the simplicity and elegance of a Blackmagic camera and only see video related options in my menu with large, easy to read buttons. I want everything, from autofocus to LUTs being in service of video.
Likewise, when I select photography, I want all video options to be hidden from me and present me a minimalist UI.
I've had my S5 on order w/BH and I've been teetering on decision to pull the plug in favor of a better focusing system.. watching this low light footage again just sort of talked me off the ledge lol. Thanks again :)
Yeah this cam has amazing image quality. The autofocus is great for what I use it for (interviews). Enjoy the cam!!
I think there is something you do wrong with Bmpcc6K because I have the camera and I never seen these noise tbh ! maybe you grade wrong ? or the wrong lens ? or settings, I don't know but there must be something wrong you do for sure... And also never forget you comparing a Film Camera with a Digital Camera which everyone knows in the film industry that film cameras are not sharp as DSLR because actually this is the biggest difference between film look and video look. Panasonic S5 is a decent DSLR but for the big productions unfortunately it doesn't give the taste of the Film Look( MY OPPONION)
People don’t understand the Black magic just stop, when shooting a frame with the sky in it use ISO 1000. 400 is not the best ISO for day light shooting just like ISO 3200 isn’t the best fit low light just because it’s the native ISO.
People believe this nonsense because they know nothing about how film cameras work.
If you really wanted to shoot to the BM strengths it should have been shot at its true 6K res and down sampled to 4K and I bet these would have matched up better. The S5 compression sucks balloon the pc, so people practically benefit from external recorders.
Exactly what I was looking for. Was planning on getting the bmpcc6k, but decided on the S5 instead
good call! you will love it! post some of your creations when you get it!
wow that's a big decision. I'm also leaning S5, but my only reservations are a) Leica lens lineup, b) autofocus .. less of an issue tbh
My setup is (2) bmpcc4k and a Bmpcc6k for main camera. The S5 is now my roninS camera, it’s super light.
Lenses are def an issue.
AF works great for anything I do. If you notice in this vid my Bmpcc6k shot is out of focus because I shot myself. The S5 is searching in the super dark shots but is fine in everything else.
all the CA is coming from what ever lenses u are using.
Str8poisin tv yeah and the fact I was stopping down so much. Just strange the S5 had none! All the scenes with CA were super back lit scenarios. Still shows up on other lenses, def not a deal breaker.
GH5 user here, needing to get a new cam soon as mine is absolutely battered! I was drawn to the S5 as soon as I read about it and have been watching a ton of videos on it. I was pretty convinced already but this video seals the deal. You now have 230 subscribers 😁
You still have the s5?
@@NeroMC no, I still have the GH5 😅
Thanks for the comparison, Peter. Really helpful. Both images are really close in many of the shots with, as you alluded to, an advantage in noise to the S5 and an advantage to color fidelity to the 6K.
Marin Real Estate Photography you got it! Yep the S5 is now my go to ronin s camera. It’s light and has a great dynamic range. The Bmpcc6k will always be my A Camera.
Great video comparison Peter! Love Panasonic’s colours and built quality. Definitely leaning more towards S5 😃 thanks again for this video 💪
My pleasure! Yeah its a great cam! again as an avid RAW shooter and BM fanboy, the S5 blew me away. Let me know what your thoughts are when you get it!
Is this guy a joke😂 BRAW = RAW it doesn’t have internal sharpening or noise reduction while he says he doesn’t know what’s going on and everyone watching is like “yea I don’t know what’s going on”😂
It’s gets don’t in post… not in camera!
The s5 definitely held its own against the black magic in raw! I heard later on this year the S5 is gonna have a firmware update that will let you do ProRes raw!
Yep! And hopefully that workflow is easy and we can get braw out of the cam. Or they can make prores raw avail in Davina I resolve, but that might never happen.
Thanks for watching!
@@shootMEpeter why and how exactly would they manage to get the braw? It's not their codec.
Josip Bojčić the camera doesn’t output prores raw. It outputs raw data and it is converted in the capture device. From what I’ve heard.
Those tests don’t have any sense, raw doesn’t process the image, you should have shooted using prores raw on Panasonic and you would have been getting the same Noise as appears on the black magic. Guaranteed
I think the color shift happens on the Blackmagic because it has a problem with red clipping with BRaw generation 4 after being transformed to r709. Generation 5 fixed this
I just ordered the S5. Im coming from a SonyA6000, so you can imagine the level of excitement i brewing right now.
What blackmagic color science version was used in this review.
thanks for this fantastic comparison! as my name says, i'm more into aerial shot, but I was looking for a good ground cam for long. canon's r5 overheating monster didn't impress me. sony's a7siii also didn't get me - (12mp sensor would be a bit low for photography - since I also wanna do photography). So I almost went for the bmp6k, since some of the ground teams I work with use them with satisfying results.
but then this baby appeared... and I wondered how it would compare with other cams. I saw a "low light" test and it didn't feel it like has to hide from the sony a7siii. And now your video also shows that it's quite competitive with the bmp6k 👍might go for it. yes i know, it doesn't have a "good" autofocus as those other guys, but in pro video creation that is not such a big deal 😅
You got it!
Everything you are thinking is on track for me as well. It’s funny regarding autofocus: my Bmpcc6k was out of focus because I had to film myself (something I haven’t done much of) and the S5 was right on, even if it was searching in super dark situations.
My only current issue with the S5 is lens options. EF-Lmount adapters are $200, which is silly for a glorified spacer to me.
Hopefully there will be more super fast lens options coming out soon!
You won’t be disappointed. PS I’m gonna study your channel, just got the Mavic air 2 and have been figuring out why HDR doesn’t expose properly!
Thanks for your interest!
I don't like the green from the lumix. I think bmpcc has better color science. More neutral. But the S5 is an awesome camera for hybrid shooter
Hi Mr. Peter,
Did you shoot in 6K or 2.5K?
Do you shoot BRAW or ProRest?
BRAW tend to introduce more noise than ProRest, that's normal for RAW video. That's why you need to Denoise the image before you Grade/ColorBalance, and then sharpen it at the end (to match baked image from S5)
ProRest will produce more baked data (less noise), but also has a great flexibility in post in HQ mode.
Downscaling 6K BRAW to 4K or shoot 4K in ProRes (to match s5) has lower noise but maintain more detail in 4k container.
Small tips from me, use False Color instead of Zebra to get more precise exposure control.
Blue Color tend to pronounce more noise and hard to recover, Red and Violet are clipped.
ISO base 400 to 1000 better in recovering highlight.
Start from ISO 1250 to 25600 better in recovering Shadow (that's probably why you got more noise 02:11 )
Please take a look to the chart bellow
images.app.goo.gl/nZgFnxn2FzxsNMJdA
In the day, I will keep the exposure in Green and maximum Light Grey/Pink
At night, I will keep the exposure maximum light Grey/Pink and lower at Blue.
Always avoid Yellow and Violet.
Hope it helps.
Cheers
Rikza Azriyan Film hey there!
Thanks for such a detailed response!
So as stated in the video, there is no point, in my opinion, to do a test catering one camera to the others disadvantages.
I shot braw on the black magic at 6k (what I would do on every shoot). I don’t shoot prores, why would you, when you have 12bit braw at such amazing file sizes?
The iso debate is always there. I was exposing to the right, not for middle grey. So, 100-1000 is the same iso and everything use being captured at 400. Only when you are exposing for middle grey at various ISO’s are you adjusting your exposure and gaining or losing highlight/shadow info.
I think the test came out pretty close! No one won or lost!
Thanks for keeping up the dialogue on this!
Good reminder to use zebras when setting exposures to protect important highlights, and maximize useable dynamic range.
From india👍
Is there a possibility for a reshoot now that the S5 has got the RAW update ?
That was an interesting comparison . Thanx
Yeah! I took the S5 out and shot some prores raw. First impressions were that, Shooting prores raw on the S5 is just as much of a pain as the battery life is on the bmpcc6k. The battery life of the ninja is horrible, and as a PC editor, prores raw doesnt fit into my workflow. IQ of the prores raw looks good tho!
@@shootMEpeter Ohh ok that was a surprise about the Ninja V battery life. What a shame. Thanks anyways. I have Seen your other videos on your work with the photos and videos. Very impressive. You have great technic.
S5 rocks
after I finished the video I was surprised at the "119" subscribers, I thought that this comparison was really well made. now you have "120" lol
Jordan Rotert ya thanks Jordan! Just started 2 weeks ago! Hoping to build. Thanks for the sub!
I just bought the S5 I 2023 and I am amazed about the skin tones and overall image quality 🥰👌
Great video!
If money wasn't an issue; would it still be a smart to pick up the S1H over the S5? I'm having a hard time finding the right pro's and cons.
I'd buy the S1H if money wasn't an issue. It has a better sensor (to manage noir), better cooling, full size HDMI port and camera sync.
Thank you so much for this review, incredibly helpful.
From Thailand,Thank you so much for do the it's the test that i want to see.Great job!
Hey Thailand! I miss your country! Can’t wait to go back. Thank you!
What the hell, how do you only have 137 subscribers? Subbed. Nice work
Ha thanks! Working on it. This is only my second video. Hoping to grow!
Peter Roessler if you keep making stuff like this, I’m sure you will!
Do you see a difference in quality from the 6k opposed to the S5? Im thinking about getting the Video Assist 12g for my S5 just to record 5.9k but not sure how big the difference is in terms of quality
bm6k still looks a bit more filmic and Panasonic a bit more videoish.. it's a very small amount I agree.
Great job 👌 really awesome review and super helpful
Awesome comparison! Audio quality was fantastic. What microphone did you use for this?
Wait this comparison doesn't make much sense....the S5 applies internal noise reduction even if you totally turn it down to the lowest level in camera....the bmpcc6k doesn't apply any sharpening (you can turn it on technically but nobody has ever done that) so did you apply noise reduction to the bmpcc6k footage in post?
Nope I just used the cameras as I would and didn’t apply anything in post. It was something I should have mentioned, but I think you and I can tell when noise reduction isn’t going to help, or if you apply it enough the image will look like a painting. The points I mentioned it not being recoverable are very visible on a monitor, just not on TH-cam.
Hope I explained my intentions right there. Thanks for taking part in the discussion!
There is always going to be more noise in RAW. The usefulness is to do noise reduction in post-production in order to have more control.
Yeah I think braw has some noise reduction built in too. Most noise could be saved by NR from the Bmpcc6k, but the S5 didn’t really need any. Still both great cams
Yeah it’s just a different product philosophy, it all depends if you want to be in control of most things like you would probably want to for pro commercial work, or if you want the camera to do it all and not worry about it, I guess either are valid depending on situations but the comparison isn’t always relevant in my opinion. Yes BRAW does some NR but a very very limited amount of it and BM provides Resolve because these cameras are a production and post production package. You can do more than you could with mirrorless cameras in post, and you should. This noise is definitely recoverable in post if you use Davinci ( i’ve done worse than that 😂). It does make me réalise that these cameras ( BMD)are definitely not the best option for everybody and I understand more why there are so many barely used ones for sale.
Going from the Canon T6I and finally getting a new camera. Leaning heavy towards the S5 but I realize that I will probably be very content with whatever I get
Bmpcc all the way. Panasonic cameras got that ugly videoish look. Very digital.
What a fun little video that's well presented. I own a bmpcc and two gh5 cameras and was considering an s5. It's so hard to keep only one camera 😅 Btw instant sub, I'm looking forward to more so thank you!
Comments section of awesome too 😁
Hey thanks! Much appreciated. I’m a fan of a lot of people making vids on TH-cam and I decided to take part sharing my experiences. It’s great to find an interested community and have positive discussions! Looking forward to making more!!
@@shootMEpeter can't wait!
you cant say you have chromatic aberration on the blackmagic, jesus, that's a lens problem
5:20 this is night and day. That is some of the ugliest noise I have ever seen. WTF black magic
great video...sold my S1R a few months ago and still regret it. I think I'll be picking up the S5 soon!
This is very very useful video... I think most of the people are not full time video creators and just want to have personal channel to share thoughts while they don't have the ability to set complete nice studio! So they need a camera with decent dynamic range and good audio..this video answer important question for those in the market with reasonablebudget.
Thanks. Nice edition. Is te slow motion 60fps?
maybe the cromatic aberration comes from the lens, not actually the camera, IDK...
Been using my S1 for a while, but I pre-ordered the s5, great video, keep it up man, you deserve more subs!
Why might I ask?
Great job man! Definitely a good real world comparison. Keep up the good work! New sub here 😉
Glen Reed thanks glen! And thanks for the sub!
very goo comparison! I just wish all the haters just shut up. S5 is a very capable camera which your comparison shows very clearly.
Pav SZ thanks man! Thanks for having my back, but I like having a dialogue. It’s like we are all at a bar (remember them) talking Sh$t about cameras! I’m into it!
And yeah it’s a killer cam!
@@shootMEpeter I had a it for a week or so just before it came out and I really liked it. The AF is no perfect but S5 has got so much more to offer. Check out my review on my channel.
Love your stuff man - keep it up!
Awesome I’ll check it out! Thanks
Peter are you going to use the Panasonic S5 Mark ii and Panasonic S5 Mark ii X
vlog set on the s5 in this video?
i think this is a terrible comparison due to the fact BMPCC has dual iso and the shadow recovery lays in the ISO 1250 and up, I bet if both were in high ISO things would turn around. At the ISO you made this test, if the mission was highlight recovery instead of shadows, the S5 would bend the knee in this test.
REACTORVISUAL there are other comments here that address this. I exposed to the right. The S5 has dual iso. Etc etc etc
black magic needs a professional lighting setup, Panasonic is beter run and gun, the result are sort of what you expect. No one will dartel about with the bmppc, the form factor, lack of ibis, not great auto focus, the need for external power supply, and if you are just capturing moments you will want to take the occasional photo, photography is another big win for the S5, Their just for different user groups.
But the whole point of a cinema camera is to have expanded dynamic range and not need a compressed lighting setup. With an ideal lighting setup, 8 bit recording is fine. I think this was a great test because things like noise and dynamic range on the S5 were surprising, not just the more commercial elements you mentioned (that are great points you made).
You lost a credability when you mention Chromatic Aberration as having to do with the camera lol You also did not list the lenses or aperture. Bro, u can be teaching stuff like this. It is misleading
All these "Cinema Camera" sensors are capturing images without sharpening or noise reduction (RAW), mirrorless cameras even at -5 on everything they will still bake the image with some processing. Davinci comes with a super powerful denoiser just cus of the nature of the beast and premiere you can get plugins for. IMO Noise is not bad as long as youre preserving higlights, also noise happens because people cant leave the shadows alone, I dont care at what level of your filming career youre at, if your not illuminating and exposing properly to the subject and let shadows be shadows... the camera won't save you.
can you do it again with sharpness and noise reduction set to -5 on panasonic! Please!
Workflow with Braw Dictates that noise reduction is necessary
Before making such tests, maybe you should study a little about cameras. You would learn that BMPCC 6K is good in recovary lights, not shadows. So you should not expose right (on yout LCD) the sky but let it burn a little and get the shadows better exposed.... there are tons of good tutorials....