Definitely a different and refreshing take on perhaps one of the most overlooked spells in the game! Would love to see a build related to this at some point
Yeah, it's one of those spells which has some very specific use cases, but in those use cases it's excellent. As I said in the video, my absolute favourite character uses Magic Stone quite a bit. I may make a video on her at some point.
Magic Stone is a ton of fun. My first ever Artificer was a con artist who sold people shiny rocks for their “cleansing auras.” Naturally, Magic Stone had to be on her spell list. For your next way too deep dive I think it’d be fun to look at the various pet options to see which ones are the strongest.
There's a lot of pets, so that might take a while to look through. With absolutely no research though, I'd probably point out the Wildfire Spirit and the Dancing Item.
I have to admit, I love the idea of the whole party stoning something to death. Especially if you use entangle, plant growth, or spike growth to prevent them from engaging in melee or running away.
Yeah, they're great. I did originally mention Spell Sniper, but I actually cut it, because I don't think it actually works, but for a really stupid reason. Spell Sniper says "When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll". Technically, Magic Stone doesn't "require" you to make an attack roll. You would get the cover benefits though, that's just applied to all ranged spell attacks. Personally, I'd be happy to allow Spell Sniper to work at my table, I don't think it's in any way broken.
I'm playing a Fairy Swarmkeeper (with a swarm of pixies) and took the druidic warrior fighting style and I'm using Magic Stone and Shillelagh! Pretty good to only need to focus on Wisdom!
It's really cool, yeah. I obviously like it most on Swarmkeeper, but it's also good on Eldritch Knights and Psi Warriors, some Artificers, and anyone who can get multiple summons or helpers.
I love shit like this! Finding fun ways to make overlooked spells actually viable is great! A friend of mine is trying to optimize the spell Witch Bolt, with a similar amount of rules manipulating.
I do like the theses spell interaction and discussion like videos. (Not the biggest fan of ONE dnd at the moment) Also love how you mention the more obscure magic items that synergizes well with that very same spell. Cantt wait to see more videos of this kind of subject. If I may make a suggestion. The Catapult spell is surprisingly versatile if you consider what you're launching. Stuff like alchemist fire, acid vile, holy water. Cuz if the that glass is hitting something at a speed 60 feet, its gonna break and its contents will get all over its target. Small explosion in the alchemist fire's case. So that's potentially an extra 1d4 continual fire damage, instant 2d6 acid or 2d6 radiant to undead/fiends added on top to the catapult spell's base 3d8. And it the enemy suceeds on the dex save, their ally in the back has to try and save to avoid it aswell cuz the item keeps going until it travels 60 or hits something on the way. However the wording messes it a bit since it cant be something worn or carried (even on yourself) which is very weird. I can see most DMs handwave that that's and allow you to hold the item your catapulting. but its very DM dependent. You could drop the item as a free action, but then you have to deal with the risk of it breaking. Maybe break the fall with your foot or be careful dropping it. Or toss it in the air and cast the spell while the item is mid air, That seems flavorful and cinematic. But it depends on the GM and I'd like to see your take on this.
That's a tricky one actually. In actual play, there's tons of stuff you can do with Catapult, but in the weird optimisation space, technically using something like Alchemist's Fire requires you to use an action to throw it, so you can't have it shatter on a Catapult. This is one of the things that I actually really dislike about optimisation, everything we do needs to be reproducable at 100% of tables. No clever little roleplay tricks, no magic items, nothing like that. It artificially inflates certain things and deflates other things.
@@the_twig131 I mean... technically even what optimizers present isn't reproducible at 100% of tables. I've heard of DMs that got annoyed when the Rogue got Sneak Attack every round. Just the regular one, not even a reaction SA.
Also useful for the rare moments at levels 1-4 where something is resistant to nonmagical B/P/S. Magic Stone is, of course, magical bludgeoning. I definitely enjoyed this interaction as a Druid who mistakenly took Frostbite instead of Magic Stone with a 4 player level 2 party. We formed an impromptu firing squad, functioning as a unit that simply followed the Warlock around the map. She dropped countless stones for our HCB Archery Fighter and Sword & Board Fighter. Another important interaction to note is with Artificer's "Tools Required". This feature adds an M component to Magic Stone, meaning you must carry either a tool or infused item, which conflicts with donning a Shield at level 1. I think the basic result is that a level 1 Artificer who uses a Shield must make the following sequence: 1. you touch the pebbles (perhaps worn on a sash, like a bandolier, lmao) with your tool 2. drop the tool 3. free action interact with a pebble + Attack with it Unless a DM allows you to grab the pebble as part of making the attack, ignoring the mess, in which you could reasonably manage to sheathe/unsheathe your tool as your free action every round. At level 2+, you can bypass this issue by infusing your donned Shield with Enhanced Defense or similar, since infused items count as an artificer spellcasting focus, allowing you to operate with a free hand and stuff.
Yeah, it's great for getting the entire party over resistances on the rare occasions when that's necessary. My Artificer uses Magic Stone for her main damage at levels 1-2, but she also has Sharpshooter, so I just give her a sling and then a Repeating Shot.
@@dragonboyjgh This is a fun idea, but imperfect. The Repeating Shot infusion on a Sling does not load itself with the pebbles under the effects of Magic Stone, but rather produces new ammunition upon attacking. This means you need a free hand to load a Repeating Shot Sling with Magic Stone pebbles, making it impossible to simultaneously don a shield. An Artificer with Magic Stone can easily take Repeating Shot as one of their known infusions for its many party supporting strengths and benefit from it themselves, but they won't be able to benefit from a Shield. If an Artificer with Magic Stone is handing out their offensive infusions to their party members, as they should, the combination of +3 AC from an Enhanced Defense Shield and free hand for throwing pebbles works better, in my opinion.
On allies using magic stone, my personal favorite is using it with Conjure Animals. Usually, your summoned animals are locked to melee, meaning they can die pretty quickly and are hampered by your party's control spells, but magic stone provides them with a good consistent ranged option that also gets around resistance/immunity to nonmagical bps damage. The sheer quantity of summons means having multiple magic stone users is beneficial, since you'll have enough throwers to make use of all the stones each turn. Also, a number of the best summons have pack tactics, making getting advantage a lot easier. Of course if your entire party is at range, you're unlikely to activate pack tactics, but you're also probably in a winning position already.
I'm innan adventurers league game and want to play a Necromancer, but Adventurers League limits how many magic items you can have, so I can't do the usual tactic of kitting my undead out with magic items, so I needed to think of something else. I took a first lvl dip in Artificer and picked up Magic Stone. Now I can have my owl familiar pass out the stones which my undead can throw with slings, so they will be using my spell attack mod which will scale better, and will be doing 1d4+1d6+ my Int mod+ my prof. bonus ×3. I can give these 3 primary undead chain mail and shields to make them sturdier, since the penalties for wearing armor youre not proficient in only affect str/dex rolls, and they use my spell mod for attacks. This still leaves my action free.
Perhaps the most fun use of this, optimization aside, would be to let common townsfolk stand a chance of hitting the bad guy, giving them agency in the struggle
Excellent video, my favorite spell is prestidigitation, probably the most versatile spell in the game and rewards out of the box thinking. Would love to see your take on the aberrant minds sorcerer's 6 lvl feature allowing them to cast their expanded spell list with sorcery points instead of spell slots. Seen alot of different opinions on it, it happens to be my favorite subclass feature in the game
@@the_twig131 actually a slightly improved version of subtle spell because it gets rid of the need for non consumable material components.and you can still add meta magic to one of the spells because it doesn't actually count as subtle spell. giving you the discount for the spell slot from sorcery point conversion and the discount on a meta magic. In my opinion this makes the aberrant mind the strongest caster. Not in terms of survivability just in how much you can cast in a day and the added versatility to how you cast
It actually outstrips eldritch blast if you use the new OneD&D rules. (Note: this video came out before play test 7. I think) The new agonizing blast invocation now allows warlocks to add their charisma mod to the damage of any one warlock cantrip that does damage, not just eldritch blast anymore. Magic stone already adds your charisma modifier, allowing you to (if your dm allows it) double dip your damage modifier. Take pact of the chain and investment of the chain master. Or just get the fighter or ranger to chuck the rocks at enemies because it’s outstripping their actual regular damage now at 5th level.
Yeah, I spent some time a while ago looking at a Two Weapon Fighting Shillelagh/Blade Pact playtest Warlock, but it does work with magic stone too. Probably. I don't remember the exact wording, but I think it says that EB has to be a cantrip which requires an attack roll. Technically, Magic Stone and Shillelagh don't *require* an attack roll, they just allow you to make one.
One idea is to throw the stones as a distraction. A pebble dealing that much bludgeoning damage to an object might make a lot of noise, perhaps a loud cracking sound. And good range too. Likely requires an agreeable GM though.
I really like Thri-Kreen Battlesmith holding an Enhanced Weapon Sling, Enhanced Arcane Focus, and another spell attack boosting item like All-Purpose Tool/Wand of the War Mage (and eventually at level 14 an Amulet of the Devout also). Grab Archery Fighting Style and Sharpshooter and you're slingin' with the best of them 🍻
Well, if you pick agonizing blast then eldritch blast is stronger, but this magic stone route has the benefit of freeing one invocation for something else, and you can use magic stone through a familiar to give the chainlock's familiar a ranged attack option if they don't have one.
Yeah, from level 2 onwards Eldritch Blast is stronger, and from 5 on its much stronger. Level 1 specifically, Magic Stone is better though, and as you say, maybe you don't want to spend an invocation on Agonizing Blast.
@@the_twig131 even if you pick agonizing blast, you can give the Stones to your chainlock familiar, then on each turn with investment of the chain master, they can attack from a distance with higher accuracy then their normal attacks, if you always cast magic stone and have 3 Stones with then before the start of the combat, that will be 1 extra attack on each turn alongside your eldritch blast, and also, the 2024 warlock can pick agonizing blast and add it to magic stone, wich add the cha mod again, then it will deal more damege then eldritch blast, since now pact of the blade can attack thrice per turn on level 11 with thirsting blade invocation + devouring blade invocation, you throw the 3 magic stones on one turn if you pick a sling as your pact magic weapon, wich, if you have a +5 cha mod, you can do 3 attacks that deal 1d6+10 bludgening, necrotic, psychic or radiant damege (since the new pact of the blade allow you to chose your pact weapon damege type), if you have the 3 Stones ready before the first turn, then you can cast armor of agathys (wich on phb 2024 is a bonus action) on the fist turn while still attacking with the magic Stones, and that's if you don't consider lifedrinker adds another 1d6 to damege onece per turn, and then you do an eldrtitch smite on that turn, on total, if you consider hit chance (magic stone and eldritch blast have the same hit chance, but since magic stone can teigger eldritch smite and lifedrinker, hiting one magic stone is more impactful then hiting one eldritch blast beam, so we have to consider it) the damege on magic stone, assuming a 70% chance to hit, + eldritch smite (assuming a level 5 spell slot, so 6d8) + lifedrinker is: (0,7 × (((3+18)÷2)+30)) + (0,973 × ((6+48)÷2)) + (0,973 × ((1+6)÷2)) = 58,0265 dpr, if you cas hex on the fist turn instead of armor of agathys, then you add (0,7 × ((3+18)÷2)) = 7,35 to that dpr totaling 65,3765, while if you pick eldritch blast + agonizing blast, use hex on the first turn, and then on subsequent turns use investment of the chain master to bonus action familiar imp attack (wich we will assume a 55% chance to fail the con save), the dpr at level 11 would be: (0,7 × ((((3+30)÷2)+15)+(3+18)) + (0,7 × ((((1+4)÷2)+3) + ((0,55×(3+18)÷2) + (0,45 × (3+18)÷4))))) = 46,29625 dpr, and at level 17, when eldritch blast gets the 4rth beam: (0,7×((((4+40)÷2)+15)+(4 +24))+(0,7×((((1+4)÷2)+3) +((0,55×(3+18)÷2)+(0,45×(3 +18)÷4))))) = 58,0265, wich still loses to the previous magic stone combo, but now the positions are changed compared to 2014, now magic stone is the one that require more invocations to do more damege, while eldritch blast require less invocations and allow a more versetile build (like having a familiar with pact of the chain or an extra spell slot, cantrips and rituals with pact of the tome) so both are viable choices on different party comps.
I'd love to see an analysis of the shadow blade spell. In particular on an Eldrich knight who uses it as their bread and butter. I think* that they can out damage your GWM/PAM companions in dim light.
@@the_twig131 Its fascinating build and I haven't flushed it out yet. There are lots of complex choices. Do you A) go ST and full plate vs. Dex + elven accuracy B) calculating DPR is a function your level as booming blade + attack might be better after level 7 and C) Do you ultimately multiclass into a full caster around 12 to progress your spell slots faster (for upcasting) or continue fighter.
I don't think it's that strong. You only get 2 2nd level slots in a day until level 10, which means over half of your encounters (assuming 6 encounters a day minimum) are going to have you be shadowless. You're also concentrating on a spell in close quarters with enemies, so it's possible you'll lose concentration halfway through the encounter. If I were going EK, I'd honestly just make a standard crossbow expert + sharpshooter fighter and grab the good low-level wizard spells like web and rime's binding ice.
The tiny servant trick definitely requires DM buy in. One could easily rule them attacking would require you use your bonus action to direct them to a new target. "Pick up the rocks I drop and use them to Attack my enemies" could easily be seen as a complex instruction, especially for an intelligence 2 creature. "Find and pick out just the rocks I drop, identify who my opponents are, and then throw said rocks at those enemies" doesn't really seem like a simple general command. Also, they'd all attack the same target if you were directing them. Not to mention the whole needing an extra bonus action to direct them. It does sound fun, but that spell could easily be interpreted differently, so best to check with the DM before counting on this for a build. Totally different point, the rock loses its magic after a hit, so neither attack nor damage on the second attack would be wisdom based with the two birds sling. Also, two birds sling specifies a ranged attack, but magic stone makes all attacks with the stones spell attacks, so it might not work for that one at all. Again, DM fiat.
@@Samuel_Kabel Good to know, thanks. Can you tell me where that is clarified? I've seen/heard arguments either way, and I've had no luck finding something definitive
@@1217BC In general the game just talks about ranged vs melee and spell vs weapon attacks. You can find an example on PHB p205: Attack Rolls Some spells require the caster to make an attack roll to determine whether the spell effect hits the intended target. Your attack bonus with a spell attack equals your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus. Most spells that require attack rolls involve ranged attacks. Remember that you have disadvantage on a ranged attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature that can see you and that isn't incapacitated.
So starting with the Two-Bird Sling first, Samuel has already pointed out that ranged spell attacks are ranged attacks, but as for losing the magic on the second attack, I ran the calcs on that. Assuming +5 spell mod and +2 DEX with only the +1 Two-Bird Sling and using Sharpshooter, the ricocheting attack increases your damage from 7.97 to 11.98 per attack, or 12.82 to 20.38 if you have advantage. If you also include Archery, that goes up to 9.93 - 15.48 or 14.97 - 24.84 with advantage So about a 50-65% increase. As for the Tiny Servant stuff, I guess? I obviously don't have a huge sample size of DMs and their opinions on Tiny Servant and Animate Dead, but in most cases I think I've seen people allow zombies or whatever to continue the attack until the end of the battle.
This is a great video about an amazing cantrip! I actually hadn't previously considered multiclassing to open up the possibility to use spell attack bonus magic items, mostly because I've never seen too many magic items in the campaigns I've played, and when I buildcraft I usually ignore them. I'd love to see you do a video about Find Familiar or Mold Earth. I really like Magic Stone though, so I'm going to post something here I wrote for another video that was talking about lanterns, I think. This is how you upgrade a Bullseye Lantern into a Lantern of Bullseyes, using Magic Stone, and become the D&D equivalent of Megaman. Lanterns are meh. But BULLSEYE lanterns are amazing. There are a few great videos about this! Basically, great way to stay in dim light or darkness for the purpose of activating features and effects, or to light up enemies while remaining difficult or impossible to see. That said, I once designed the best use of a lantern I've ever heard of in 5e. I called it the Lantern of Bullseyes. This is an incredible piece of gear for most full spellcasters if built around getting access to the spells, but especially clockwork sorcerers or any wizards. First step, take a lantern to a smith or tinkerer before level 5, and ask them to install a funnel on the top that leads into the interior, and install a spring-loaded sliding cover which covers and closes both the bottom of the funnel and shutters the front so the light is covered off completely. It shouldn't be too expensive, and this is important. They should both be closed or open at the same time. Optionally, but highly recommend, have them install some kind of mount or brace to attach it to your armor, shield or so you can strap it to your arm so you don't have to hold it. Next, cast or have cast Continual Flame on your Lantern. The Lantern of Bullseyes is now complete! Now to make it work... you'll need two spells. Magic Stone, and Tiny Servant. As a Sorcerer, you can get this as a Clockwork Soul by replacing a Clockwork Spell with any transmutation spell from the Wizard spell table (Magic Stone is a Transmutation cantrip and Tiny Servant is a 3rd level Transmutation spell! Perfect.) Now, Tiny Servant is a 3rd-level spell so we'll be getting this at level 5. But the real power of this combo is upcasting Tiny Servant with a 4th-level slot! As a Sorcerer, we have Flexible Casting, which lets us create a 4th level spell slot at 5th level, unlike Wizard and Artificer who have to wait until level 7. As a result, we can create 3 Tiny Servants, which hang around for 8 hours (a full adventuring day!) I like using gold coins, since you always have plenty and they're JUST the right size. I draw little smiley faces on one side of them, and angry faces on the other, so they can flip around depending on what they're being instructed to do. Now, load your Tiny Servant emoji coins INTO your completed Lantern of Bullseyes. The modifications are EXTREMELY important, as now the lantern automatically slides shut when not held open, which gives your little guys FULL COVER in a CARRIED OBJECT which practically makes them invincible in most situations. Also, Continual Flame means the flame does no harm to the cute little devils. They're like that potion of healing in your backpack that's survived 3 Shatters, 2 Fireballs, getting eaten by a giant toad, chewed on by an eldritch-looking rock worm and a brief trip into the elemental plane of fire. Give your Tiny Servants instructions to stay there and any time they get a ball bearing, to throw it at the first hostile creature they see. These instructions remain in effect until you tell them to do something else. In combat, you can now cast Magic Stone to power up three ball bearings each turn as a bonus action. I keep a pouch of 1000 for this. More than I'll ever need. The stones, when thrown by ANY creature, use YOUR spell attack bonus to make a 60' ranged attack that deals 1d6+YOUR spellcasting modifier of damage. Then just drop them into the hopper and pull the mechanism (with your item interaction, if the DM requires it.) This arms the Tiny Servants, who will then immediately chuck them at whatever enemy you point the lantern at! This uses your ~bonus action~ (and maybe item interaction) to do a casual 3d6+12 (with a +4 Charisma mod at level 5) damage every round for up to 8 hours. Assuming an average to-hit of 60% at level 5 with a +7 to hit on each one against a typical enemy AC, that's an average of 13.5 DPR! From just your BONUS ACTION. Warlock baseline at level 5 is ~12.7 DPR using their whole action. With just a lowly Firebolt as your action, that's ~16.8 DPR at level 5 (7 for Wizard) that's granular enough to hit 4 different targets if needed. But the most important part is that you basically now have a Megaman blaster on your arm, or a magic machine gun shoulder turret. If you really want to become an uzi of DPR, take the next two levels in Warlock to get medium armor, shields, Shield, sorlock short rest spell slots/sorcery points and Eldritch Blast for your action. That cranks your average DPR up to 29.5 at the meager cost of a third level spell slot and/or 6 sorcery points, which you can probably get back easily enough most adventuring days now that you get a couple spell slots from every short rest. This puts you the tiniest bit AHEAD of a Variant-human crossbow Fighter running Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert, but with a full caster with barely-tapped resources behind it. Assuming a 14 in Dex and using a shield now, you also walk around with a standing 18 AC. Just wait until you Twinspell Fireball on top of your pew-pew-pew! As always, discuss your plans with your DM before trying anything like this. If they're not on board or think it's too broken powerful, negotiate as necessary or leave your little servants out in the vulnerable and try to use positioning, cover and Rope Tricks to keep them alive long enough to be worth. DMs, remember... they could be playing a Peace Cleric 1, Divination Wizard 6 by that point. :P I wrote this quite a while ago, so forgive me if any of the numbers are slightly off. Still, it should be close enough to accurate to get the idea across.
TL;DR You can give Magic Stones to Tiny Servants. If you want a punny way to give them full cover, you can put them in bullseye lanterns. Aka, Lanterns of Bulleye. (P.S Ball bearings are not pebbles, but that's not really important.)
This is very similar to what the Artificer/Wizard I mentioned does. She doesn't get the 4th level Tiny Servant until she reaches 10th level, but when she does, her DPR from shooting a crossbow twice and then having three Tiny Servants throw Magic Stones is 33.57. That's about 4 DPR off of a CBX build AT ADVANTAGE. If she used her second 4th level slot on 3 more Tiny Servants and just had them run up and hit people, she'd actually go above the advantage CBX.
@@the_twig131 Nice! Yeah, that's also a really powerful route. Even better, the lantern trick works perfectly for the Artificer aesthetic, since you could just make it yourself! If it's a lighthearted table, make a tiny trenchcoat to put on the lantern, so it's also technically three Tiny Servants in a trenchcoat. lol
The item doesn't specify but pretty much all magic ammo including magic stone says it loses its magic on a hit meaning the second attack of the two-bird sling wouldn't be a magic stone attack and supposedly wouldn't have +1 if you were using +1 sling ammunition for example. This isn't how I would run it of course but if we are playing strictly rules-as-written this might be a factor.
That's a decent point actually. Assuming +5 spell mod and +2 DEX with only the +1 Two-Bird Sling and using Sharpshooter, the ricocheting attack increases your damage from 7.97 to 11.98 per attack, or 12.82 to 20.38 if you have advantage. If you also include Archery, that goes up to 9.93 - 15.48 or 14.97 - 24.84 with advantage So about a 50-65% increase. Oh, and I also calced assuming no Sharpshooter on the second attack. It's better to use SS on both.
Came here to point this out since I've been doing a gimmick build around the two-birds sling for a while, but you beat me to the punch. :P Magic stone and magical ammunition losing potency after the first attack has been an ongoing source of mild annoyance. If your DM wanted to be really annoying he could technically rule that the second attack counts as an improvised weapon attack, since the magic stone at that point is a pebble rather than a sling bullet, but I luckily haven't had to deal with that.
You can combine magic stone with staff of adornment and carve it into a arrow and use sharpshooter to do +10 to damage with a long bow and be a lvl 5 artificer balista adding a rune to the staff making the attack min 40 damg and 72 max
I too love the stone, specially with magic initiate. I found it a really solid option for eldritch knights and fighters in general, as it could scale with int, wis or char, be a really cheap weapon you can aquire even if you lose your gear, and that scales with your multi up to x3.
Good Buneary Teacher! I'm not even watchin' at this point since I done swore off the game, but this channel got Potential and I'm gon stick around to see what happens when the D&D runs dry. Good voice also.
I love magic stone too. I love playing a halfling slinger. Normally go druid... I have a GM who lets my familiar drop a stone. So gets disadvantage on attacks. Until he levels up with me and can become proficient. This is a House rule...makes them less killable.
bouneary used rock throw, roggenrola was never seen again. i would have never even though that this cantrip could be used like that, can a rouge with a sling use it to activate sneak attack?
Yeah, that would count. But I'll say that you usually wouldn't want that. Most Rogues will have a use for their BA that they'd prefer. If nothing else other than Steady Aim from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
I wish to double check something. Doesn't Magic Stone require your once per turn Object Interaction in order to pick up one stone? The spell description says nothing about you picking up the 3 stones with the casting of the spell, only that you touch them.
So you get one free object interaction every turn. I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest that you need more than that. As for loading them into the sling, the ammunition property does that for you, and you can drop for free.
@@the_twig131 that's not what I asked... at all. That answer is barely in the same ballpark of what I asked. I asked if you don't need to use your (once per turn) Object Interaction in order to pick up (just) one stone from Magic Stone? I ask because the spell doesn't say that you pick those stones up as part of the casting of the spell. It only says that you imbue them with magic. Assuming this is correct (which I don't know with 100% certainty, hence why I even ask), how do you pick up more than one stone per turn?
Are you talking about when you actually cast the spell rather than when you attack with them? In that case, you don't need to. Magic stone doesn't require you to hold the stones, just touch them. You literally just have a bag or rocks that you put your hand in. There are various other ways of doing something similar, but you don't need to use an interaction at all for most of them.
@@the_twig131 No... I'm talking about picking up the stones. You can't attack with them if you don't have them equipped, and the spell description says nothing about you picking up the stones, only that you touch them to imbue them with the spell's magic. I know that you can pick up one stone as part of the once-per-turn object interaction that can be made as part of the attack action, but everywhere I see Magic Stone being talked about, no one mentions this. Am I missing something? How are people picking up more than one stone per turn to make features like extra attack work?
Ok. So this is the same problem as all of the other thrown weapons, and it's solved in the same ways. If you're using a sling though, you don't need to. The stones are the ammunition, you don't need to use your interaction for ammunition.
Sure, she's 1-5 Battlesmith to get Extra Attack as early as possible, then the rest in War Wizard. Here's the 1-20 build. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gyS3QYYLFIrOYmfiTCI0DLromAGyfjtL91IlArtLp2U/edit?usp=drivesdk
"When you cast a spell that _requires_ you to make an attack roll, the spell's range is doubled." Magic Stone doesn't technically "require" you to make an attack roll, you could just hold the shiny pebbles. But I'm sure it would be easy enough to convince a good DM to let you use it together anyway. The Spell Sniper feat isn't OP broken or anything, it could use a little boost like that. It's more of a semantics argument than a power buff anyway.
Add "Crusher" feat to the Magic Stone user! Fun! my favorit spell is minor illusion! creative and good for camouflage! metal gear style "hide in a box"!
You can certainly catapult the stone, but it won't deal more damage than a typical Catapult spell. Magic Stone deals its damage "on a hit," which is language only employed when referring to attack rolls, which Catapult doesn't use.
0:53 Getting very hair-splitty here, but the stones don't count as a component because they're the target of the spell, same as water is for Shape Water. Great video though!
"You or someone else can make a ranged SPELL attack with one of the pebbles..." Are you sure a spell attack can be done twice per turn with extra attack? I thought that applies only to regular attacks
Any time you are given the ability to make an attack roll and no other action is specified, that uses the Attack Action. Extra Attack doesn't actually say that you have to be using a weapon, it just says that you have to use the Attack Action.
A lot of your suggestions aren't a good reason not to just use a light crossbow, but you're right about the synergy with (e.g.) _tiny servant._ You can get that, too, from the Retainers feature of the variant Noble background: Knight. Barring that, it's... not really worth the opportunity cost.
Yeah, that's definitely true. It's not the tightest writing in D&D. That's part of why I love it so much though. The weirdness in it leads to all sorts of odd rules interactions.
there's also the chance you could use a slurbow. basically a crossbow that shoots bullets. which i'm sure you can convince your DM count magic stone as if you've already got the ok for slurbows.
@@pederw4900 Not really. Sharpshooter works with ranged weapon attack, but Magic Stone is a ranged spell attack. Even when used with a weapon. That's WotC's "naturalistic" language for you. And Spell Sniper's range doubling also doesn't work, as when you read that feat literally, Magic Stone doesn't "require" you to make an attack.
Any time you have the ability to make an attack roll where no other action is specified, that uses the attack action. Making the stones requires the cast a spell action, but actually throwing or slinging them is an attack action, even though it requires a ranged spell attack.
I never realized throwing the magic stone was an attack action. That’s awesome.
Definitely a different and refreshing take on perhaps one of the most overlooked spells in the game! Would love to see a build related to this at some point
Yeah, it's one of those spells which has some very specific use cases, but in those use cases it's excellent.
As I said in the video, my absolute favourite character uses Magic Stone quite a bit. I may make a video on her at some point.
Magic Stone is a ton of fun. My first ever Artificer was a con artist who sold people shiny rocks for their “cleansing auras.” Naturally, Magic Stone had to be on her spell list.
For your next way too deep dive I think it’d be fun to look at the various pet options to see which ones are the strongest.
There's a lot of pets, so that might take a while to look through. With absolutely no research though, I'd probably point out the Wildfire Spirit and the Dancing Item.
Can confirm. Magic Stone is awesome. My wizard/arty upcasts tiny servant to 4th lvl and gives them all three stones to throw every round.
I have to admit, I love the idea of the whole party stoning something to death. Especially if you use entangle, plant growth, or spike growth to prevent them from engaging in melee or running away.
Magic Stone + Sheiligh are the best spells for SAD Wis builds.
To get the other benifiets of sharpshooter, on magic stone get spell sniper.
Yeah, they're great.
I did originally mention Spell Sniper, but I actually cut it, because I don't think it actually works, but for a really stupid reason. Spell Sniper says "When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll". Technically, Magic Stone doesn't "require" you to make an attack roll. You would get the cover benefits though, that's just applied to all ranged spell attacks. Personally, I'd be happy to allow Spell Sniper to work at my table, I don't think it's in any way broken.
I'm playing a Fairy Swarmkeeper (with a swarm of pixies) and took the druidic warrior fighting style and I'm using Magic Stone and Shillelagh! Pretty good to only need to focus on Wisdom!
This video got my gears turning thinking about potential builds using this spell. I really want to give it a try.
It's really cool, yeah. I obviously like it most on Swarmkeeper, but it's also good on Eldritch Knights and Psi Warriors, some Artificers, and anyone who can get multiple summons or helpers.
I love shit like this! Finding fun ways to make overlooked spells actually viable is great! A friend of mine is trying to optimize the spell Witch Bolt, with a similar amount of rules manipulating.
Witch Bolt is significantly more of a challenge than Magic Stone. Do you know what they're using?
@@the_twig131 I don't remember all of the details but it was a sorlock with Distant Spell to make the range decent. I don't have all the details. 😥
I do like the theses spell interaction and discussion like videos. (Not the biggest fan of ONE dnd at the moment)
Also love how you mention the more obscure magic items that synergizes well with that very same spell.
Cantt wait to see more videos of this kind of subject.
If I may make a suggestion.
The Catapult spell is surprisingly versatile if you consider what you're launching. Stuff like alchemist fire, acid vile, holy water. Cuz if the that glass is hitting something at a speed 60 feet, its gonna break and its contents will get all over its target. Small explosion in the alchemist fire's case.
So that's potentially an extra 1d4 continual fire damage, instant 2d6 acid or 2d6 radiant to undead/fiends added on top to the catapult spell's base 3d8. And it the enemy suceeds on the dex save, their ally in the back has to try and save to avoid it aswell cuz the item keeps going until it travels 60 or hits something on the way.
However the wording messes it a bit since it cant be something worn or carried (even on yourself) which is very weird. I can see most DMs handwave that that's and allow you to hold the item your catapulting. but its very DM dependent. You could drop the item as a free action, but then you have to deal with the risk of it breaking.
Maybe break the fall with your foot or be careful dropping it. Or toss it in the air and cast the spell while the item is mid air, That seems flavorful and cinematic. But it depends on the GM and I'd like to see your take on this.
That's a tricky one actually. In actual play, there's tons of stuff you can do with Catapult, but in the weird optimisation space, technically using something like Alchemist's Fire requires you to use an action to throw it, so you can't have it shatter on a Catapult.
This is one of the things that I actually really dislike about optimisation, everything we do needs to be reproducable at 100% of tables. No clever little roleplay tricks, no magic items, nothing like that. It artificially inflates certain things and deflates other things.
@@the_twig131 I mean... technically even what optimizers present isn't reproducible at 100% of tables. I've heard of DMs that got annoyed when the Rogue got Sneak Attack every round. Just the regular one, not even a reaction SA.
Nice video! I really like these deep dives of single spells or features.
Also useful for the rare moments at levels 1-4 where something is resistant to nonmagical B/P/S. Magic Stone is, of course, magical bludgeoning. I definitely enjoyed this interaction as a Druid who mistakenly took Frostbite instead of Magic Stone with a 4 player level 2 party. We formed an impromptu firing squad, functioning as a unit that simply followed the Warlock around the map. She dropped countless stones for our HCB Archery Fighter and Sword & Board Fighter.
Another important interaction to note is with Artificer's "Tools Required". This feature adds an M component to Magic Stone, meaning you must carry either a tool or infused item, which conflicts with donning a Shield at level 1. I think the basic result is that a level 1 Artificer who uses a Shield must make the following sequence:
1. you touch the pebbles (perhaps worn on a sash, like a bandolier, lmao) with your tool
2. drop the tool
3. free action interact with a pebble + Attack with it
Unless a DM allows you to grab the pebble as part of making the attack, ignoring the mess, in which you could reasonably manage to sheathe/unsheathe your tool as your free action every round.
At level 2+, you can bypass this issue by infusing your donned Shield with Enhanced Defense or similar, since infused items count as an artificer spellcasting focus, allowing you to operate with a free hand and stuff.
Yeah, it's great for getting the entire party over resistances on the rare occasions when that's necessary.
My Artificer uses Magic Stone for her main damage at levels 1-2, but she also has Sharpshooter, so I just give her a sling and then a Repeating Shot.
Infuse the sling with Repeating.
It now loads itself AND acts as your focus for casting.
@@dragonboyjgh This is a fun idea, but imperfect. The Repeating Shot infusion on a Sling does not load itself with the pebbles under the effects of Magic Stone, but rather produces new ammunition upon attacking. This means you need a free hand to load a Repeating Shot Sling with Magic Stone pebbles, making it impossible to simultaneously don a shield.
An Artificer with Magic Stone can easily take Repeating Shot as one of their known infusions for its many party supporting strengths and benefit from it themselves, but they won't be able to benefit from a Shield.
If an Artificer with Magic Stone is handing out their offensive infusions to their party members, as they should, the combination of +3 AC from an Enhanced Defense Shield and free hand for throwing pebbles works better, in my opinion.
@@caseykits oh dang you right. I guess you have to use Unseen Servant for that then.
On allies using magic stone, my personal favorite is using it with Conjure Animals. Usually, your summoned animals are locked to melee, meaning they can die pretty quickly and are hampered by your party's control spells, but magic stone provides them with a good consistent ranged option that also gets around resistance/immunity to nonmagical bps damage. The sheer quantity of summons means having multiple magic stone users is beneficial, since you'll have enough throwers to make use of all the stones each turn. Also, a number of the best summons have pack tactics, making getting advantage a lot easier. Of course if your entire party is at range, you're unlikely to activate pack tactics, but you're also probably in a winning position already.
I'm innan adventurers league game and want to play a Necromancer, but Adventurers League limits how many magic items you can have, so I can't do the usual tactic of kitting my undead out with magic items, so I needed to think of something else. I took a first lvl dip in Artificer and picked up Magic Stone. Now I can have my owl familiar pass out the stones which my undead can throw with slings, so they will be using my spell attack mod which will scale better, and will be doing 1d4+1d6+ my Int mod+ my prof. bonus ×3. I can give these 3 primary undead chain mail and shields to make them sturdier, since the penalties for wearing armor youre not proficient in only affect str/dex rolls, and they use my spell mod for attacks. This still leaves my action free.
Never played AL, so I didn't know about this, but great use of Magic Stone.
Perhaps the most fun use of this, optimization aside, would be to let common townsfolk stand a chance of hitting the bad guy, giving them agency in the struggle
Yeah, any old peasant you bring along can be given something to do if you have Magic Stone.
Excellent video, my favorite spell is prestidigitation, probably the most versatile spell in the game and rewards out of the box thinking. Would love to see your take on the aberrant minds sorcerer's 6 lvl feature allowing them to cast their expanded spell list with sorcery points instead of spell slots. Seen alot of different opinions on it, it happens to be my favorite subclass feature in the game
That's a really interesting one, because it includes Subtle Spell, which is one of the best Metamagics.
@@the_twig131 actually a slightly improved version of subtle spell because it gets rid of the need for non consumable material components.and you can still add meta magic to one of the spells because it doesn't actually count as subtle spell. giving you the discount for the spell slot from sorcery point conversion and the discount on a meta magic. In my opinion this makes the aberrant mind the strongest caster. Not in terms of survivability just in how much you can cast in a day and the added versatility to how you cast
It actually outstrips eldritch blast if you use the new OneD&D rules. (Note: this video came out before play test 7. I think)
The new agonizing blast invocation now allows warlocks to add their charisma mod to the damage of any one warlock cantrip that does damage, not just eldritch blast anymore. Magic stone already adds your charisma modifier, allowing you to (if your dm allows it) double dip your damage modifier. Take pact of the chain and investment of the chain master. Or just get the fighter or ranger to chuck the rocks at enemies because it’s outstripping their actual regular damage now at 5th level.
Yeah, I spent some time a while ago looking at a Two Weapon Fighting Shillelagh/Blade Pact playtest Warlock, but it does work with magic stone too. Probably. I don't remember the exact wording, but I think it says that EB has to be a cantrip which requires an attack roll. Technically, Magic Stone and Shillelagh don't *require* an attack roll, they just allow you to make one.
One idea is to throw the stones as a distraction. A pebble dealing that much bludgeoning damage to an object might make a lot of noise, perhaps a loud cracking sound. And good range too.
Likely requires an agreeable GM though.
Never fail to deliver, love the vid❤
I really like Thri-Kreen Battlesmith holding an Enhanced Weapon Sling, Enhanced Arcane Focus, and another spell attack boosting item like All-Purpose Tool/Wand of the War Mage (and eventually at level 14 an Amulet of the Devout also). Grab Archery Fighting Style and Sharpshooter and you're slingin' with the best of them 🍻
Just a simple +4 from magic items, no biggie.
swarmkeeper ranger wisdom build with magic stone. LOVE IT
Well, if you pick agonizing blast then eldritch blast is stronger, but this magic stone route has the benefit of freeing one invocation for something else, and you can use magic stone through a familiar to give the chainlock's familiar a ranged attack option if they don't have one.
Yeah, from level 2 onwards Eldritch Blast is stronger, and from 5 on its much stronger. Level 1 specifically, Magic Stone is better though, and as you say, maybe you don't want to spend an invocation on Agonizing Blast.
@@the_twig131 even if you pick agonizing blast, you can give the Stones to your chainlock familiar, then on each turn with investment of the chain master, they can attack from a distance with higher accuracy then their normal attacks, if you always cast magic stone and have 3 Stones with then before the start of the combat, that will be 1 extra attack on each turn alongside your eldritch blast, and also, the 2024 warlock can pick agonizing blast and add it to magic stone, wich add the cha mod again, then it will deal more damege then eldritch blast, since now pact of the blade can attack thrice per turn on level 11 with thirsting blade invocation + devouring blade invocation, you throw the 3 magic stones on one turn if you pick a sling as your pact magic weapon, wich, if you have a +5 cha mod, you can do 3 attacks that deal 1d6+10 bludgening, necrotic, psychic or radiant damege (since the new pact of the blade allow you to chose your pact weapon damege type), if you have the 3 Stones ready before the first turn, then you can cast armor of agathys (wich on phb 2024 is a bonus action) on the fist turn while still attacking with the magic Stones, and that's if you don't consider lifedrinker adds another 1d6 to damege onece per turn, and then you do an eldrtitch smite on that turn, on total, if you consider hit chance (magic stone and eldritch blast have the same hit chance, but since magic stone can teigger eldritch smite and lifedrinker, hiting one magic stone is more impactful then hiting one eldritch blast beam, so we have to consider it) the damege on magic stone, assuming a 70% chance to hit, + eldritch smite (assuming a level 5 spell slot, so 6d8) + lifedrinker is: (0,7 × (((3+18)÷2)+30)) + (0,973 × ((6+48)÷2)) + (0,973 × ((1+6)÷2)) = 58,0265 dpr, if you cas hex on the fist turn instead of armor of agathys, then you add (0,7 × ((3+18)÷2)) = 7,35 to that dpr totaling 65,3765, while if you pick eldritch blast + agonizing blast, use hex on the first turn, and then on subsequent turns use investment of the chain master to bonus action familiar imp attack (wich we will assume a 55% chance to fail the con save), the dpr at level 11 would be: (0,7 × ((((3+30)÷2)+15)+(3+18)) + (0,7 × ((((1+4)÷2)+3) + ((0,55×(3+18)÷2) + (0,45 × (3+18)÷4))))) = 46,29625 dpr, and at level 17, when eldritch blast gets the 4rth beam: (0,7×((((4+40)÷2)+15)+(4
+24))+(0,7×((((1+4)÷2)+3)
+((0,55×(3+18)÷2)+(0,45×(3
+18)÷4))))) = 58,0265, wich still loses to the previous magic stone combo, but now the positions are changed compared to 2014, now magic stone is the one that require more invocations to do more damege, while eldritch blast require less invocations and allow a more versetile build (like having a familiar with pact of the chain or an extra spell slot, cantrips and rituals with pact of the tome) so both are viable choices on different party comps.
I'd love to see an analysis of the shadow blade spell. In particular on an Eldrich knight who uses it as their bread and butter. I think* that they can out damage your GWM/PAM companions in dim light.
That could be an interesting one. There's a few things you can do with that. I might have to do some research into it.
@@the_twig131 Its fascinating build and I haven't flushed it out yet. There are lots of complex choices. Do you A) go ST and full plate vs. Dex + elven accuracy B) calculating DPR is a function your level as booming blade + attack might be better after level 7 and C) Do you ultimately multiclass into a full caster around 12 to progress your spell slots faster (for upcasting) or continue fighter.
I don't think it's that strong. You only get 2 2nd level slots in a day until level 10, which means over half of your encounters (assuming 6 encounters a day minimum) are going to have you be shadowless. You're also concentrating on a spell in close quarters with enemies, so it's possible you'll lose concentration halfway through the encounter. If I were going EK, I'd honestly just make a standard crossbow expert + sharpshooter fighter and grab the good low-level wizard spells like web and rime's binding ice.
The tiny servant trick definitely requires DM buy in. One could easily rule them attacking would require you use your bonus action to direct them to a new target. "Pick up the rocks I drop and use them to Attack my enemies" could easily be seen as a complex instruction, especially for an intelligence 2 creature. "Find and pick out just the rocks I drop, identify who my opponents are, and then throw said rocks at those enemies" doesn't really seem like a simple general command. Also, they'd all attack the same target if you were directing them. Not to mention the whole needing an extra bonus action to direct them.
It does sound fun, but that spell could easily be interpreted differently, so best to check with the DM before counting on this for a build.
Totally different point, the rock loses its magic after a hit, so neither attack nor damage on the second attack would be wisdom based with the two birds sling. Also, two birds sling specifies a ranged attack, but magic stone makes all attacks with the stones spell attacks, so it might not work for that one at all. Again, DM fiat.
For your last point, all ranged spell attacks are ranged attacks. But everything else is very good. I like your interpretations and insights.
@@Samuel_Kabel Good to know, thanks. Can you tell me where that is clarified? I've seen/heard arguments either way, and I've had no luck finding something definitive
@@1217BC In general the game just talks about ranged vs melee and spell vs weapon attacks. You can find an example on PHB p205:
Attack Rolls
Some spells require the caster to make an attack roll to determine whether the spell effect hits the intended target. Your attack bonus with a spell attack equals your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus.
Most spells that require attack rolls involve ranged attacks. Remember that you have disadvantage on a ranged attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature that can see you and that isn't incapacitated.
So starting with the Two-Bird Sling first, Samuel has already pointed out that ranged spell attacks are ranged attacks, but as for losing the magic on the second attack, I ran the calcs on that.
Assuming +5 spell mod and +2 DEX with only the +1 Two-Bird Sling and using Sharpshooter, the ricocheting attack increases your damage from 7.97 to 11.98 per attack, or 12.82 to 20.38 if you have advantage.
If you also include Archery, that goes up to 9.93 - 15.48 or 14.97 - 24.84 with advantage
So about a 50-65% increase.
As for the Tiny Servant stuff, I guess? I obviously don't have a huge sample size of DMs and their opinions on Tiny Servant and Animate Dead, but in most cases I think I've seen people allow zombies or whatever to continue the attack until the end of the battle.
This is a great video about an amazing cantrip! I actually hadn't previously considered multiclassing to open up the possibility to use spell attack bonus magic items, mostly because I've never seen too many magic items in the campaigns I've played, and when I buildcraft I usually ignore them. I'd love to see you do a video about Find Familiar or Mold Earth.
I really like Magic Stone though, so I'm going to post something here I wrote for another video that was talking about lanterns, I think. This is how you upgrade a Bullseye Lantern into a Lantern of Bullseyes, using Magic Stone, and become the D&D equivalent of Megaman.
Lanterns are meh. But BULLSEYE lanterns are amazing. There are a few great videos about this! Basically, great way to stay in dim light or darkness for the purpose of activating features and effects, or to light up enemies while remaining difficult or impossible to see. That said, I once designed the best use of a lantern I've ever heard of in 5e. I called it the Lantern of Bullseyes. This is an incredible piece of gear for most full spellcasters if built around getting access to the spells, but especially clockwork sorcerers or any wizards. First step, take a lantern to a smith or tinkerer before level 5, and ask them to install a funnel on the top that leads into the interior, and install a spring-loaded sliding cover which covers and closes both the bottom of the funnel and shutters the front so the light is covered off completely. It shouldn't be too expensive, and this is important. They should both be closed or open at the same time. Optionally, but highly recommend, have them install some kind of mount or brace to attach it to your armor, shield or so you can strap it to your arm so you don't have to hold it. Next, cast or have cast Continual Flame on your Lantern. The Lantern of Bullseyes is now complete! Now to make it work... you'll need two spells. Magic Stone, and Tiny Servant. As a Sorcerer, you can get this as a Clockwork Soul by replacing a Clockwork Spell with any transmutation spell from the Wizard spell table (Magic Stone is a Transmutation cantrip and Tiny Servant is a 3rd level Transmutation spell! Perfect.) Now, Tiny Servant is a 3rd-level spell so we'll be getting this at level 5. But the real power of this combo is upcasting Tiny Servant with a 4th-level slot! As a Sorcerer, we have Flexible Casting, which lets us create a 4th level spell slot at 5th level, unlike Wizard and Artificer who have to wait until level 7. As a result, we can create 3 Tiny Servants, which hang around for 8 hours (a full adventuring day!) I like using gold coins, since you always have plenty and they're JUST the right size. I draw little smiley faces on one side of them, and angry faces on the other, so they can flip around depending on what they're being instructed to do. Now, load your Tiny Servant emoji coins INTO your completed Lantern of Bullseyes. The modifications are EXTREMELY important, as now the lantern automatically slides shut when not held open, which gives your little guys FULL COVER in a CARRIED OBJECT which practically makes them invincible in most situations. Also, Continual Flame means the flame does no harm to the cute little devils. They're like that potion of healing in your backpack that's survived 3 Shatters, 2 Fireballs, getting eaten by a giant toad, chewed on by an eldritch-looking rock worm and a brief trip into the elemental plane of fire. Give your Tiny Servants instructions to stay there and any time they get a ball bearing, to throw it at the first hostile creature they see. These instructions remain in effect until you tell them to do something else. In combat, you can now cast Magic Stone to power up three ball bearings each turn as a bonus action. I keep a pouch of 1000 for this. More than I'll ever need. The stones, when thrown by ANY creature, use YOUR spell attack bonus to make a 60' ranged attack that deals 1d6+YOUR spellcasting modifier of damage. Then just drop them into the hopper and pull the mechanism (with your item interaction, if the DM requires it.) This arms the Tiny Servants, who will then immediately chuck them at whatever enemy you point the lantern at! This uses your ~bonus action~ (and maybe item interaction) to do a casual 3d6+12 (with a +4 Charisma mod at level 5) damage every round for up to 8 hours. Assuming an average to-hit of 60% at level 5 with a +7 to hit on each one against a typical enemy AC, that's an average of 13.5 DPR! From just your BONUS ACTION. Warlock baseline at level 5 is ~12.7 DPR using their whole action. With just a lowly Firebolt as your action, that's ~16.8 DPR at level 5 (7 for Wizard) that's granular enough to hit 4 different targets if needed. But the most important part is that you basically now have a Megaman blaster on your arm, or a magic machine gun shoulder turret. If you really want to become an uzi of DPR, take the next two levels in Warlock to get medium armor, shields, Shield, sorlock short rest spell slots/sorcery points and Eldritch Blast for your action. That cranks your average DPR up to 29.5 at the meager cost of a third level spell slot and/or 6 sorcery points, which you can probably get back easily enough most adventuring days now that you get a couple spell slots from every short rest. This puts you the tiniest bit AHEAD of a Variant-human crossbow Fighter running Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert, but with a full caster with barely-tapped resources behind it. Assuming a 14 in Dex and using a shield now, you also walk around with a standing 18 AC. Just wait until you Twinspell Fireball on top of your pew-pew-pew! As always, discuss your plans with your DM before trying anything like this. If they're not on board or think it's too broken powerful, negotiate as necessary or leave your little servants out in the vulnerable and try to use positioning, cover and Rope Tricks to keep them alive long enough to be worth. DMs, remember... they could be playing a Peace Cleric 1, Divination Wizard 6 by that point. :P
I wrote this quite a while ago, so forgive me if any of the numbers are slightly off. Still, it should be close enough to accurate to get the idea across.
Also: Look out, that Buneary's got a sling!
TL;DR
You can give Magic Stones to Tiny Servants.
If you want a punny way to give them full cover, you can put them in bullseye lanterns. Aka, Lanterns of Bulleye.
(P.S Ball bearings are not pebbles, but that's not really important.)
This is very similar to what the Artificer/Wizard I mentioned does. She doesn't get the 4th level Tiny Servant until she reaches 10th level, but when she does, her DPR from shooting a crossbow twice and then having three Tiny Servants throw Magic Stones is 33.57. That's about 4 DPR off of a CBX build AT ADVANTAGE. If she used her second 4th level slot on 3 more Tiny Servants and just had them run up and hit people, she'd actually go above the advantage CBX.
@@the_twig131 Nice! Yeah, that's also a really powerful route. Even better, the lantern trick works perfectly for the Artificer aesthetic, since you could just make it yourself!
If it's a lighthearted table, make a tiny trenchcoat to put on the lantern, so it's also technically three Tiny Servants in a trenchcoat. lol
The item doesn't specify but pretty much all magic ammo including magic stone says it loses its magic on a hit meaning the second attack of the two-bird sling wouldn't be a magic stone attack and supposedly wouldn't have +1 if you were using +1 sling ammunition for example. This isn't how I would run it of course but if we are playing strictly rules-as-written this might be a factor.
That's a decent point actually. Assuming +5 spell mod and +2 DEX with only the +1 Two-Bird Sling and using Sharpshooter, the ricocheting attack increases your damage from 7.97 to 11.98 per attack, or 12.82 to 20.38 if you have advantage.
If you also include Archery, that goes up to 9.93 - 15.48 or 14.97 - 24.84 with advantage
So about a 50-65% increase.
Oh, and I also calced assuming no Sharpshooter on the second attack. It's better to use SS on both.
Came here to point this out since I've been doing a gimmick build around the two-birds sling for a while, but you beat me to the punch. :P Magic stone and magical ammunition losing potency after the first attack has been an ongoing source of mild annoyance.
If your DM wanted to be really annoying he could technically rule that the second attack counts as an improvised weapon attack, since the magic stone at that point is a pebble rather than a sling bullet, but I luckily haven't had to deal with that.
You can combine magic stone with staff of adornment and carve it into a arrow and use sharpshooter to do +10 to damage with a long bow and be a lvl 5 artificer balista adding a rune to the staff making the attack min 40 damg and 72 max
And ranger with swarm keeper makes the max attack 80 damg
I too love the stone, specially with magic initiate. I found it a really solid option for eldritch knights and fighters in general, as it could scale with int, wis or char, be a really cheap weapon you can aquire even if you lose your gear, and that scales with your multi up to x3.
Yeah, it's probably one of the better picks for Magic Initiate Druid.
Loved it! Very well said!
Ah yes, Magic Stone. The only ranged cantrip that can you can hold action attack on while concentrating on a spell.
Good Buneary Teacher!
I'm not even watchin' at this point since I done swore off the game, but this channel got Potential and I'm gon stick around to see what happens when the D&D runs dry.
Good voice also.
I love magic stone too. I love playing a halfling slinger. Normally go druid... I have a GM who lets my familiar drop a stone. So gets disadvantage on attacks. Until he levels up with me and can become proficient. This is a House rule...makes them less killable.
this video gave me an idea to make a magic stone monk build, id call him david...
But Monks don't have Magic Stone. You might have to dip Druid. Perhaps... uh... perhaps the Shepherd Druid?
@@Samuel_Kabel exactly right!!! a shepherd druid dip!
bouneary used rock throw, roggenrola was never seen again.
i would have never even though that this cantrip could be used like that, can a rouge with a sling use it to activate sneak attack?
Yeah, that would count. But I'll say that you usually wouldn't want that. Most Rogues will have a use for their BA that they'd prefer. If nothing else other than Steady Aim from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.
I wish to double check something.
Doesn't Magic Stone require your once per turn Object Interaction in order to pick up one stone? The spell description says nothing about you picking up the 3 stones with the casting of the spell, only that you touch them.
So you get one free object interaction every turn. I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest that you need more than that. As for loading them into the sling, the ammunition property does that for you, and you can drop for free.
@@the_twig131 that's not what I asked... at all. That answer is barely in the same ballpark of what I asked.
I asked if you don't need to use your (once per turn) Object Interaction in order to pick up (just) one stone from Magic Stone? I ask because the spell doesn't say that you pick those stones up as part of the casting of the spell. It only says that you imbue them with magic.
Assuming this is correct (which I don't know with 100% certainty, hence why I even ask), how do you pick up more than one stone per turn?
Are you talking about when you actually cast the spell rather than when you attack with them?
In that case, you don't need to. Magic stone doesn't require you to hold the stones, just touch them. You literally just have a bag or rocks that you put your hand in.
There are various other ways of doing something similar, but you don't need to use an interaction at all for most of them.
@@the_twig131 No... I'm talking about picking up the stones. You can't attack with them if you don't have them equipped, and the spell description says nothing about you picking up the stones, only that you touch them to imbue them with the spell's magic.
I know that you can pick up one stone as part of the once-per-turn object interaction that can be made as part of the attack action, but everywhere I see Magic Stone being talked about, no one mentions this. Am I missing something? How are people picking up more than one stone per turn to make features like extra attack work?
Ok. So this is the same problem as all of the other thrown weapons, and it's solved in the same ways. If you're using a sling though, you don't need to. The stones are the ammunition, you don't need to use your interaction for ammunition.
Can i get that level split for your battle smith war wizard. Was thinking of doing one as well
Sure, she's 1-5 Battlesmith to get Extra Attack as early as possible, then the rest in War Wizard.
Here's the 1-20 build.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gyS3QYYLFIrOYmfiTCI0DLromAGyfjtL91IlArtLp2U/edit?usp=drivesdk
5:30 Does that mean the spell sniper talent applies in this regard?
Since it's a ranged spell attack.
"When you cast a spell that _requires_ you to make an attack roll, the spell's range is doubled."
Magic Stone doesn't technically "require" you to make an attack roll, you could just hold the shiny pebbles.
But I'm sure it would be easy enough to convince a good DM to let you use it together anyway. The Spell Sniper feat isn't OP broken or anything, it could use a little boost like that. It's more of a semantics argument than a power buff anyway.
If you use a sling with magic stone, do you also get the 1d4 damage from the sling on top of the magic stone damage per attack?
Unfortunately no. The only things which change when you use a sling are the range, and the fact that it becomes an attack with a ranged weapon.
omg magic stone enjoyer subbed
Does it work with the Crusher feat?
Yep, it does bludgeoning, so it works with Crusher.
I actually only know about magic stone’s existence purely because of an optimised necromancer build where you equip undead with magic stones
Why wouldn't throwing the stone count as a ranged weapon attack just like a sling? Wouldn't it count as a thrown weapon?
Because the stone isn't a weapon. If it were, it would say it was -- check out Shadow Blade for an example of what that would look like.
Yeah, things are only weapons if they say they are. You could maybe argue that it's an improvised weapon, but that definitely isn't RAW.
I wonder if Rupert knows Kobold T. Packtactics. XD
I believe that his canonical name is Bagpipes.
Good stuff
Add "Crusher" feat to the Magic Stone user! Fun!
my favorit spell is minor illusion! creative and good for camouflage! metal gear style "hide in a box"!
Minor Illusion is probably the best cantrip in 5E. It's just so ridiculously versatile, especially if you have a DM who likes illusions too.
@@the_twig131 WHAT? YOU'RE GONNA DISRESPECT INFESTATION LIKE THAT!?
Great video would catapult spell work with this?
You can certainly catapult the stone, but it won't deal more damage than a typical Catapult spell. Magic Stone deals its damage "on a hit," which is language only employed when referring to attack rolls, which Catapult doesn't use.
Hello indeed
0:53 Getting very hair-splitty here, but the stones don't count as a component because they're the target of the spell, same as water is for Shape Water. Great video though!
"You or someone else can make a ranged SPELL attack with one of the pebbles..."
Are you sure a spell attack can be done twice per turn with extra attack? I thought that applies only to regular attacks
Any time you are given the ability to make an attack roll and no other action is specified, that uses the Attack Action. Extra Attack doesn't actually say that you have to be using a weapon, it just says that you have to use the Attack Action.
Technically it has a material component if an Artificer uses it!
What a cute channel!
I love content like this ^.^
A lot of your suggestions aren't a good reason not to just use a light crossbow, but you're right about the synergy with (e.g.) _tiny servant._
You can get that, too, from the Retainers feature of the variant Noble background: Knight. Barring that, it's... not really worth the opportunity cost.
Magic Stone is fun, but kinda wonky
Yeah, that's definitely true. It's not the tightest writing in D&D. That's part of why I love it so much though. The weirdness in it leads to all sorts of odd rules interactions.
there's also the chance you could use a slurbow. basically a crossbow that shoots bullets. which i'm sure you can convince your DM count magic stone as if you've already got the ok for slurbows.
Not familiar with those, but sure, why not.
This reminded me of a build Colby did a while back th-cam.com/video/6P1jzyxpzgA/w-d-xo.html
Great video! Quick question: what pronouns do you prefer?
Don't really care to be honest. You can call me he, she, they, xe, ultimate tennis champion, or just call me by name. Preferably not it though.
@@the_twig131 snoop/dogg
Another thing: you do not care about the long distance for range attacks, so you ignore the normal disadvantage
This is only true if you throw the stone. If you sling the stone, then the range is 30/120 unfortunately.
Sharpshooter fixes that tho!
@@pederw4900 Not really. Sharpshooter works with ranged weapon attack, but Magic Stone is a ranged spell attack. Even when used with a weapon. That's WotC's "naturalistic" language for you.
And Spell Sniper's range doubling also doesn't work, as when you read that feat literally, Magic Stone doesn't "require" you to make an attack.
@@Samuel_Kabel oh true, Twig mentioned that and I glossed right over it.
@@Samuel_Kabelis there anywhere in the rules that specify an attack can't be both spell and weapon?
Wrong wrong wrong! Not an attack action it is a ranged spell attack only ever once a round unless haste or something similar.
Any time you have the ability to make an attack roll where no other action is specified, that uses the attack action. Making the stones requires the cast a spell action, but actually throwing or slinging them is an attack action, even though it requires a ranged spell attack.
Heh. Confidently wrong wrong John.
Sorry John.. but Twig got it right right right!!
(Love this spell, liked and subscribed!!!)