Fun fact, Dooku was originally supposed to speak during his death, but Christopher Lee said that Dooku was not the type to bargain or beg when he was about to die so they changed it to his surprised look at Palpatine’s betrayal instead
An excellent decision that was. Dooku was intensely stoic and pragmatic and would've understood the entirety of palatine's hoodwinking of him the moment he looked in his eyes as Anakin had him at his mercy. Christopher Lee was such a treasure of an actor
Christopher Lee also had a rather unique, personal and extensive understanding of what evil people are like just before they die... He'd probably never seen someone beg ( IF they saw it coming that is) just before they were summarily disposed of, but shock definitely. What a legend he was and what a life he lived.
@@DoratTheKillerIt wasnt sudden. The rebellion was made during ROTS, no other major revolts or threats to his rule. The rebellion was made by things outside his control at the time it was made.
A dude with literal magical wizard powers whose specialty being staying hidden from other wizards and manipulating people without their knowledge managed to control this loosely tied confederacy from within! I'm mind blown!
They were corrupted from the start. Without Sideous forcing things to happen as he did, they would have been established later and with much more aid and probably would have just walked away without issue.
I think the best outcome to the Clone Wars would be Dooku, Sidious and their objectively evil pawns being outed, the Jedi removing themselves from political affairs or getting wiped out, the CIS winning, and than immediately fracturing into truly independent systems.
The best lesson you can take from The Separatist is how easy it is for projects meant to challenge corruption to become vehicles for someone else’s corruption.
@goroakechi6126 Also, the US in the 1700s to 1800s. Standing against alleged British tyranny and corruption only to face corruption from the slave owning states.
Did the South manipulate the Constitutional machinery to protect and advance a corrupt end? Yes. The fight against the British was a clash between ruling classes. The gentry-aristocracy of Britain and the gentry-business class of the colonies who were now rich enough to start a war. Parliament could have avoided the Revolution - UK's worst humiliation before Dunkirk - altogether by simply granting the colonies a kind of autonomy under the King. Obviously sending people to London was impracticable. Intransigence in London - and hot heads in the colonies - pushed it to war. @@hyperion3145
I have to put here that Sidious is the main reason why the Separatist failed, because they were never supposed to succeed in the first place. They were solely a boogyman to provide the springboard for Palpatine. If Palpatine was out of the picture, the CIS likely would have crushed the Republic in a fight.
Especially if they didnt have to put breaks on their droids. Tri-fighters, droidekas, magna-guards and similar cutting edge designs were few and far between, and they could have made them smarter still.
No they won’t! This myth needs to go away. The Galactic Republic has nearly ALL the manpower & industry under their control. It’s the main reason why the Sith Empires couldn’t conquer them before! And the Republic can make droids as well. …At a quicker pace! Kuat, Rothana, Mon Cal, Rendili, Alsakan, Corellia, & the other big name worlds (& their subsidiaries), supported the Republic & their successors. They make droids as well… Without the Sith, the CIS would have lasted decades at best. It would also not have been nearly as evil. They both had very noble intention. So, did the Republic as well. Both were hypocrites. That’s the beauty of it all, really…
@@shanweeboy Yes, there would’ve been. In one form or another. The Late Republic wasn’t too kind to a lot of worlds outside the Core, Colonies, & expanse regions. The animosity between the Human species, the “Humanlike” species that benefited from being Near-Human, & the nonhumans (everyone else), were boiling over. Look up “High Human Culture” in Star Wars. It was an Imperial term, but this went on since before the Empire. The Sith, not just Sidious, cleverly exploited these facts. Either way, the Republic wins. It would have changed its ways though. Sadly, it needed a civil war for this to happen, because that’s what it was…
I'm sure others have already commented this, but Grievous's hatred of Jedi predate the Shuttle crash. He hates them because he lead his people in a war against an insectoid species from a neighboring planet that regularly pillaged and enslaved his people. Once they started winning, the Insectoids ran to the republic and said the Kaleesh attacked them unprovoked. The Republic sided with the Insectoids, ordering the Kaleesh to stand dowm and enforcing the order by Jedi, put a blockade/trade embargo on the Kaleesh, causing most of the planet to starve, and forcing him to basically sell himself as a mercenary to low biders so he could try and keep black market trade going to support his planet. Basically, the Republic and Jedi Punished and Murderered (via imposed famine) his people for standing up to their oppressors, giving him justified hatred toward both institutions.
It is a very good piece of world building which I wish we saw more of because that is exactly the sort of thing that happens with real life democratic institutions, especially the US, and it shows well that the republic was on its way to becoming the empire even before Palpatine became a senator.
@@marley7868 The US has most certainly done things like what seekingabsolution1907 describes. I take it you aren't very well-versed in the history of the Cold War, are you? Read up on what led to the Vietnam War, for instance. General Grievous' backstory has some interesting parallels with that of Ho Chi Minh, who was fighting the French colonizers of Vietnam (called Indochina at the time) and asked the US for help, as he had read of the American Revolution and admired the ideals of our nation. The US basically ignored him, as we weren't going to help some little Asian fellow against a European power. So Uncle Ho turned to some other chaps who _did_ listen to him--the Soviets... and that got America's attention, and we ended up fighting a long, bitter and ultimately futile war against Uncle Ho's folks in the north of the country whilst propping up some rather nasty sons of bitches in the government of South Vietnam. We did similar things in Latin America--supporting Pinochet in Chile and the Contra rebels in Nicaragua during the Iran-Contra Affair. As an American, I still do believe that my country is ultimately a force for good, rather than evil in this world. After all, the US generally doesn't tend to engage in naked land grabs (like what Russia is currently doing in Ukraine and what the CCP have muttered loudly about doing to Taiwan for years) by force, and it also tends to at least pay some homage to the ideals of human rights and equality, although in practice, we do often fall short of the noble ideals on which our nation was founded. The USA doesn't have clean hands, but given how low the bar is set, we're far from the most savage of the bunch on Sol-3. This is evidenced by the comparative difference in how our forces treated the people in occupied Japan and Germany after WWII versus how the Soviets treated the people in the areas of Europe they occupied after WWII. Nobody in an American-occupied zone after the Second World War was prevented from leaving, unless he was under arrest and facing trial for war crimes. The Soviets and their East German lackeys tended to shoot far more people running AWAY from the Berlin Wall than towards it--the wall was to keep people in, not out of East Berlin.
I love how he described Palpatine as someone he's thrown tomatoes at for "at least" two videos, implying there's a possibility he's done it more and simply can't remember.
The CIS were the Rebel Alliance without plot armor. The issues the Outer Rim had against the Republic were very real, but what could have been a legitimate movement was hijacked by the Sith and greedy industrialists.
@@marley7868yeah a regime that can be completely tanked by a single assassination is pretty much the definition of unstable government. The minute Palpatine died the galaxy celebrated, reinstated the republic and senate and disbanded the galactic army
The B1s feel like they where designed for basic labour and the Trade Federation decided to just give them a blaster and gave them a battle program that was contracted to the lowest bidder.
That's basically what happened. B1's were never really meant for combat and only started getting pressed into that to fight pirates. Them being connected to a central computer was meant to alleviate this issue but after that cost them to lose Naboo, the TF decided to just stuff the cheapest possible combat programs into their B1's. B1's can barely run the programs they have, which causes them to act so slow, dimwitted and stressed all the time. It's honestly kinda of tragic all things considered.
@@rhymenoceros3303 No, the B1s were proven to be effective, but legal limits prevented them from ever reaching their potential, and with the Sith and corporates purposefully giving them shit tactics, they would always lose.
No, the B1s were proven to be effective, but legal limits prevented them from ever reaching their potential, and with the Sith and corporates purposefully giving them shit tactics, they would always lose.
@rhymenoceros3303 flase the B1 was Orginally designed as a combat droid. The first model, the OOM series was perfectly capable without a central control computer. They were not non-cons pressed into service against pirates. But dedicated combat droids that proved super effective against pirates. The CCC model and post-CCC modles were layer designs, cheap downgrades intended to be built in vast numbers. Not the orginal design. And were meant to simply be basic ground troops and suffered little issues there. They were however pushed into roles meant for OOM models due to sith interference and were further downgraded due to a combination of Republic spec ops sabotage and sith corpution induced basic operating prededures. But even post-CCC basic droids could be super deadly when their programing was reworked. Mr Bones is a clear example.
@@tk-6967you’re not wrong. If the CIS were to improve on the design, we would have b1 battle droids who would have fight similarly to the that droid in the comic that was shown in the video. Plus, I think that one episode in the Bad Batch Season 2 show case that the B1 Battle Droids can be a capable threat.
Well their strengths were their weaknesses. Huge human error with leader ship ( a majority of their generals were bankers, scientist, or politician with no sense of tactics and relied on death march with numbers) and a lot of problems do to " cost savings" measure aka being cheap.
To my knowledge the CIS had the Jedi spread out thin across the galaxy and were able to endlessly replace their droids and starships. They were winning the battles only to lose the war when all of the droids were ordered shut down, leaving the handful of organics fighting for them to be thrown into a 180 situation...
There's definitely something to be said for the CIS's ability to wearher attrition. A lost clone would take years even with accelerated growth to be battle ready. A lost battle droid battalion could be replaced in hours to minutes. Rebels also directly tells us that Kalani or more droids like him would have dramatically pushed the war into CIS's favour. And that wasn't even Kalani's assessment, it was Rex's.
@@LordRunty Except in both cannon and legend, as far as i remember, the battle of coruscant happenned specifically because the CIS was running out of ships. Sure you can build trillions of droids easily, but you also have to move them, and I don't think their ship building capabilities were that different from the republic.
@@evoluxman9935 No, actually the Battle of Coruscant was for Palpatine to finally gain supreme power. Having Grevious and his fleet show up and spread terror on most of the Senate who to them, the war mostly felt like this far off conflict that wasn't really affected them. The moment the victory was won, the Senate quickly voted to give Palpatine supreme executive powers which many thought was just streamlining the war effort; no more debates on issues, Palpatine just makes the decisions to help achieve an overall end to the war.
@@evoluxman9935The balance in space was roughly on par, however the CIS was cut-off in multiple parts due to being on the galactic mid-outer rims (a pretty obvious parallel must i say). The surprise assault on Coruscant was a trap from Palps from the start, as the CIS fleet got devastated between the Home Fleet and further reinforcements on standby that CIS intel had no idea of. The Republic could very well have won through local superiority, Napoleon style, but this battle meant that the CIS armada was reduced to the point that the frontline immediately collapsed, meaning the man(droid)power advantage was worth nothing without the means to protect their production and transportation. The CIS would have otherwise very slowly bled to death, probably hoping that the Republic would bleed-out/tap-out faster and give-in to their demands.
This is one of the few moments where the faction being so dumb is actively the point. Sidious wanted a threat to unite everyone under the Republic and, eventually, under him. As we see in Episode 3, once everyone united under him and he began the creation of the Galactic Empire, he obliterated the CIS and sent Vader to kill its leaders.
Driving neutral systems to the Republic = No need for an invasion by the Empire, since they're just under new management doctrine. Lumping the worlds who were failed by the Republic in with the corporations who committed war crimes under quota = Palpatine's critics get discredited. Droid Armies = The galaxy becoming more distrustful of droids, allowing Sidious to have an organic army of conscripts to entrench the Empire and be affected by the Force.
But why would the Seperatists go along with that. They had their own goals. They thought Sideous was on their side but they would have distanced themselves from him when they noticed his guidance was terrible for them. It's just a badly written pile of crap.
The point of the video isn't that it makes no sense for the separatist to be underpowered, it's that it makes little sense so many dumb people can even conduct a war in the first place. Hard to believes trillions of people are under CIS regime and not a single one of them has an half competent leader, despite legitimate reasons for secession.
@@clarkmichaels822 Most of the Separatists didn't even know Sidious existed. To them, they thought Dooku was their leader and much of what they were hearing was Republic propaganda. Remember, from a certain point of view, the Republic was the aggressors since they attacked first.
@@clarkmichaels822 Count Dooku was in charge of basically everything military related within the Separatists. They didn't know that Count Dooku was working for Palpatine. And anyone that got close to the truth or disagreed too much he would just murder.
To be honest Clone wars 2008 retcons a lot of lore and seperatists in the EU were actually more threatening, especially during the battle of Jabiim which caused the republic huge losses
Star Wars Legends Grievous was literally just a plot armoured Gary stu. It made literally no sense that none of the Jedi simply used the force to overpower Grievous e.g. suspending Grievous in the air so he can't move and crushing his metal body. There is nothing strategic or brilliant about Grievous' infinite plot armor. Star Wars Legends is complete trash. Oh yes Grievous's infinite plot armor as all the Jedi he fights are turned into bumbling incompetent clowns who forgot they can use the force to easily get rid of him. Wow you just listed a lot of badly written, shallow and poor excuses for Grievous' badly written victories over Jedi who should be able to kill him a hundred times over if they had functioning brain cells. I'm well aware of the poorly written excuses that are made for Grievous' infinite plot armor. None of your excuses make any sense. You have to turn your brain off to pretend that any of the Grievous's victories made any sense at all. Even a Padawan knows how to freeze an enemy or bind them in the air with the force. So there is no excuse for Grievous being able to defeat multiple Jedi Masters. Relentless Attacks, Really? There is literally no reason why any competent Jedi shouldn't be able to immediately freeze Grievous and stop him on the first try. We literally see Jedi constantly taking down armies of robots with ease. Fear? Really, Shouldn't the Jedi be trained to take down giant monsters & far worse enemies on a daily basis. The only reason Grievous actually survives in the 2002 cartoon is because he is a Gary Stu with infinite plot armor. That's it. Your excuses are getting more and more asinine. It shouldn't take a Jedi on Mace Windu's level to defeat an overrated cyborg with no defences against force abilities. And no, Grievous establishes that most of his victories are against Jedi Knights. You are pulling poorly written excuses out of your ass to try to defend the extremely bad writing of Grievous. "Unorthodox Fighting Styles" Grievous is literally just swinging around multiple light sabers. Literally nothing stops any competent Jedi from using the force to rip the lightsabers out of his hand, or ripping his metal armor from his skin or freezing Grievous in place if the 2002 Clone Wars Cartoon was written by someone with a functional brain. Literally all of Grievous' fights would have ended with him being instantly defeated by any force user. Your excuses for Grievous' plot armor victories are complete garbage and completely nonsensical. @@Grivehn
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha First of all, you didnt even seem to reply to the correct thread, because I said nothing about Grievous here. Second, the Jedi Order is full of perfect unemotional robots who make no mistakes and are effectively higher beings or angels, right? Sure. The Jedi Order during the Clone Wars wasnt at its most corrupt and weakest, or close enough at any rate, right? Wrong. The only worse ones I can think of is the Army of the Light on Ruusan and generally the Jedi who retreated back to the Core during the dark millenias between Kotor and Bane era. Point is, youre expecting padawans to know no fear, literally CHILDREN. Mind you, Anakin, the Chosen One, fell to the dark side because of his fears. And Obi-wan, the model Jedi, let it happen. I'll agree that Tartakovsky CW put spectacle over realism in combat, but it ends there. Grievous' method of breaking the spirit of Jedi before engaging in combat is one of the smartest approaches to fighting them in the entire saga. The only smarter I can think of is HK-47 who said 'anything goes' such as poison, assassination etc. Obviously I hard disagree with your takes, and for being so hostile, please gtfo. I dont know if you like Disney or not, but if you hate Legends its enough for me to be hostile right back at you. And if you do like Disney SW, which includes Feloni's TCW, everything you say is invalid by proxy.
Another thing to note is that the corporations within the Separatists would actively withhold schematics and plans for some of their weapons and vehicles in order to maintain profits. This is why vehicles like the Defoliator tank and Super Tanks were never mass produced. You can't exactly fight effectively when internal factions focus on profit over maximizing combat efficiency.
About General Grievous, he's actually supposed to be a brilliant strategist on top of the jedi hunter with highest body count. The 2002 cartoon made this clear and the separatists achieved many victories against the republic thanks to him. The 3D cartoon decided to turn him alongside every single separatist droid into babbling buffoons and nothing but comic reliefs.
@@brianpembrook9164 the 2005 one is also good, it just has this direction of making the CIS as these goofy cartoon villains more so for entertainment sake. The video is great but I don't think too much of the show shouldve been taken into consideration for argument's sake.
@@brianpembrook9164 but yeah, in 2002 we see grievous strategic brilliance as his first introduction is a jedi general desperate that they got outmaneuvered by him and utterly decimated.
Interestingly, the main reason for grievous being in the position he was in is because he was just the best way for Sheev to fuel the republics Xenophobia. He’s an Alien robot cyborg wielding Jedi weapons slaughtering his way through the mid rim. Dooku wasn’t the face of the confederacy for most people, grievous was. So ofc after the fall of the republic they used grievous as propaganda for to further turn the GE human centric
16:30 One thing I should mention here, the Separatists did not build the Droidekas, they are not related at all to the other droid soldiers. The Trade fedaration was buying them from the Colicoids, a race of non-humanoid Outer Rim aliens known for two things, being amoral arms traders and eating the flesh of sapient beings (including other Colicoids); even the Hutts are afraid of them. It stands to reason these droids are very expensive and the cowardly Separatist leaders aren't anxious to haggle further with such beings, who thankfully, are a neutral faction.
Nute Gunray's loyalty makes sense as he owed his position to Palpatine arranging the deaths of his former cohorts in the Trade Federation. Combined with his natural cowardice it creates an easy sunken cost fallacy for him to stay with Palpatine.
I really hope we'll see you rip into the Galactic Republic as well some day. They are more than deserving. Also, still hoping you'll one day start a series talking about the Sci-Fi civs/villains that you actually think aren't dumb as hell.
To be fair, the Galactic Republic existed and thrived for thousands of years until it was ultimately demolished from within by a literal super wizard, I think they were pretty fine and every point made in the video would come down to it literally just being sabotage from within.
Honestly the main problem was with the Jedi Order. The Sith reemerged numerous times and yet the Jedi never learned to always stay vigilant. Just look at the amount of times that they assumed the Sith were extinct. And there were Sith walking near them for decades and they never noticed it!
35:38 Perhaps this is because as far as living weapons go, Greivous is both powerful and entertaining to watch be sicked upon his enemies. I must say, Tartokofsky gave this guy a hell of a debut.
@@inquisitionexpecter4263Depends on the situation. Good for not getting mind-tricked/mind-controlled, bad when the central figure of the hive mind is prematurely killed
As lots of people pointed out: all of the issues and idiocy of this faction were influenced by Sidious attempting to gain power, they were never meant to win and were likely used as a backup if his identity got revealed by the Jedi (where he would likely join Dooku and use them to steamroll the Galaxy), Sidious needed Dooku, Grevious and the Separatists to be a big enough threat to put fear into his faction in order to get his supporters to grant him more power until he's got enough to establish the Galactic Empire. If the Separatists had been an independent non Sith controlled faction, they could have just endlessly building droids to the point of outnumbering their enemy by 1000 to 1. Meanwhile the B1s were intended to be deployed in EXTREMELY massive numbers which (as shown by the impact of the Geonosian Arena, is pretty effective against the average Jedi)... and the Battle Droid issues mostly come from Lucas/Filoni's idioitc choices in TCW.
Yes, which they mentioned multiple times in the video, but saying "Sidious wanted it that way" doesn't explain why the Separatist leaders stupidly allowed themselves to be manipulated, or why Dooku went along with his master's sabotage of the Confederacy. Yet everyone in the comments still insists that is a valid excuse for the crazy stupidity of the entire Confederacy. Also, although the B1's strategy of overwhelming numbers is clear, it's still a dumb strategy. We've seen way more deadly robot armies in plenty of fictional settings, and this video explained the B1's deficiencies at length while suggesting viable alternatives.
Pretty much every single bad gripe that he makes in the video is really limited to just The Clone Wars TV show, not the actual Prequel Trilogy or the Clone Wars Multi-Media Project.
@@sdagoth3037most separatist leaders didn’t even know of sidious , and believed what dooku said or what sidious promised. And if one doesn’t know they’re being manipulated how can they stop it. And dooku himself thought he would rule along side sidious. This he went along with the plan.
@@sdagoth3037 Including Star Wars itself. Back in the KOTOR era there were battle droids that even the weakest of which was far far better than any B1 battle droid. Yet, 4000 years later and the battle droids that should've advanced significantly are far worse than the ones that were in use during KOTOR.
I thought the whole point was that Palpatine was manipulating the separatists to keep the war going as long as possible so he could consolidate power, and they only existed for as long as they did because he wanted them to
They could have just jacked up their prices and got anything they wanted without declaring open war. The Jedi weren't interested at all until two of their own got a failed assassination attempt.
You mean the corporations? Well they didn't declare war. Media Zealot completely mischaracterised and omitted a bunch of lore for his arguments to even work, he is spewing bullshit.
Funnily enough, the incompentence of the CIS make perfect sense to me. The hierarchy is almost entirely rich, out of touch people who just care about more money. After seeing many of the decisions made by real life rich people, its completely believable for a whole bunch to flock to someone who's powerful and promising more money. Plus none of them know the first thing about warfare, but wouldn’t be willing to say as such. So whenever Dooku commands something kinda stupid to deliberately hamstring the CIS, they probably all just nod and clap, even if they're thinking it's not a great idea. Add-on that at least some were installed by Sidious into their positions because they were useful pawns, and the likely tendency for anyone who questions it to disappear and they'll all be yes men overconfident in their own abilities making terrible decisions for themselves and the galaxy
Very true. The issue I mostly have with the CIS (especially in the clone wars) is the depiction of dooku and grievous. Like mentioned in the video, their characters are quite inconsistent and don’t really fit the role they seem to be made for. The CIS has a hundred potential incompetent commanders they could use as a recurring character, grievous should only show up when shit needs to go down. Apparently he’s capable of performing genius tactical maneuvers against Jedi lead forces, which is what got him into his position in the first place, even performing a surprise attack on Coruscant, dispatching the senate guards and clones protecting Palpatine, and slaying several Jedi along the way. Yet he gets bested by gungan regulars? Let’s see the tactical genius by showing him wiped out a company of clones with a synergistic deep strike or something, let him kill some Jedi. Then dooku. I can’t put it better than anyone else already has, but he could have been far more interesting.
There was that one episode of the bad batch that showed what was possible when even B1 battle droids are effectively used. Mfs had like overlapping fields of fire using heavy support from AT and artillery. Had MANPADs spread out to lauch quick, surprise attacks on air transports and support. Even had squads of B1s working with droidekas in tge tight interior to make effective killing corridors showing some layered defenses. The strength of the droids is how exceptionally cohesive they can be and their excellent coordination. Issue is that they're only ever as good as their commander, being much mire of tools than the individual agents that are the clones.
Speaking of commanders, for some reason, B1s out of all droids had to prove from experience and combat to be promoted rather than just make a commander droid, what really makes the CIS not work is just how bad the B1 was used and made
A lot, if not most of the Separatists' shortcomings can easily explained. Sidious needed them to lose the war so he could pull the rug out from under the Republic and create the Empire.
Yes, which they mentioned multiple times in the video, but that saying "Sidious wanted it that way" doesn't explain why the Separatist leaders stupidly allowed themselves to be manipulated, or why Dooku went along with his master's sabotage of the Confederacy.
21:32 I loved you used the scene from the bad batch! It was so fitting to see behind the scenes that Dooku didn’t even spare his own worlds from his war efforts (stealing and ruining the worlds he so called claimed to want to protect)
Imo realistically the droid army is insanely good. Mass produced for cheap, does not need food, water or sleep, usually has no moral that can break and losses don't really affect people at home much. Great design really. Like even if a single clone is worth dozens of them that would still be more than worth it and in the show and movies only important characters tend to destroy that many B1s.
There are actually a lot of reasons why it failed From the looks of it due to a lack of care for mind wiping to prevent personalities from developing (like R2) almost all droids gained some form of a personality and thus gave them morale as well as a notable decrease in quality The B1 just sucked as a backbone infantry. It was cheap sure, but you could beat it in a 1v1 by riping its joints apart (not punch it, but it really was that fragile) they were too lazy to integrate a gun into its arm like the B2 which was a hinderance since that gun could be salvaged by the enemy. It also didn't help that they weren't just backbone infantry, they did everything, ship command, commanders (somehow requiring experience and effort for a promotion rather than just making a commander droid), maintenance, and police, again, they were fragile as hell and performed poorly at their jobs A lack of competant command; the tactical droid from the beginning of the war sucks harder than the B1, sure it could devise sometimes creative and decisive battles, but its limited by the fact its a droid, and has been shown at some points to be so stupid that if they were alive they would forget to breathe, the super tactical droid was a needed upgrade but came too late in the war
TCW really watered down how effective the Separatist army was, because our heroes win pretty much every time. Any loss attributed to the Republic is either rectified shortly afterward or mentioned in passing for something offscreen. Realistically, the Republic should have been having a much harder time because the Jedi weren’t meant or trained to be military generals, which would lead to quite a few errors in leadership. Grievous is also basically a non-threat in the show because he always loses or runs away when seriously threatened.
What’s funny is that unlike most entries in this series the CIS’ flaws are intentional in universe. The terrain federation came close but it’s flaws were intentional in a meta sense for the sake of satire.
@@gideonmele1556 they did, in the comics Disney nuked there were several attempts to fix the issue including upgrading the B1. but most were exposed in secret to the republic and in one comic, their most successful B1 went sentient and destroyed the plans.
@@gideonmele1556 You are not wrong...I just figure that Sidious...I mean Plotdevice...is using a range of tactics we do not see to control the leadership of the Separatists. Anyone not controlled by Duku would be blackmailed/threatened to go along, and that he would use the Dark Side to influence any of the Separatist leaders that were susceptible to that.
@@gideonmele1556 By CIS leaders do you mean the corporates on the Council or the Senate? The Senate didn't have any military power, and the corporates were in on Sidious' plan for the most part.
In fairness to the trade federation, the lore explanation of the battle droids was that they were the best combat droids they were allowed at the time for private defense purposes. They weren't allowed a real military, so they mass produced the closest they could get. Then Sidious had Dooku convince the Seperatists that keeping said terrible defense droids was actually a good idea for most of their army due to how cheap they were to mass produce. Basically, at first they were a legal loophole, and then they became a bad tactical gameplan later.
40K is partly satirical. Even most diehard fans will tell you the inperium is a dumb mess protected plot armour so thick, the fact it's plot armour is actually cannon.
@judoisoww every 40k faction would need their own 3 episode lore video...minus the Tyrannids. The Tyranids actually are competent. And the Orks weaponied their own stupidity to be deadlier
@@copter2000 I certainly looked pregnant by the time I had eaten it lol. My own take on a Honey and Chilli meets hoisin and teriyaki with chicken and egg fried rice. Twas pretty banging if I do say so. The scorpion Tabasco sauce certainly dialled up the heat from what you’d get from the shops. Nom nom. Thanks for reminding me. Need to try that recipe again but write it down this time lol.
He is wrong on this video though. Disappointed by the level of dishonesty really. Like I may not agree with him on the Empire one, but that is just an opinion, this was him omitting stuff and his argument itself was contradicted by some of the things he said.
12:20 yes this infact a point brought up in numerous sources. The orginal B1s were much more effective (the ones before naboo), and then they slowly degrade from there. Some due to genuine cost savings that are arguebly good over all, others due to sith caused sabotage before the war (so the sith could have an easy way to improve the CIS if they wanted to draw the war out longer) and others further still due to a few succesful Republic spec ops raids (which argrubaly fall under sith sabotage due to the sith working to prevent the cis from finding out about the downgrades) Another canon example of a B1 being super effective when unshackled from the sith plot is the B1 known as Mr Bones.
I think part of the reason behind the banking clan’s dedication might be due to Darth Plagueis or Hego Damask being friends and business associates with San Hill and his father. He probably sunk his tentacles deep and Sidious was able to assume control.
Watching this, I now understand why many CIS Supporters and Fans dislike or hate Dave Filoni. The dude makes good stuff, yes, but he has made the CIS less of a threat than they should been and only focused on the Clones. If you are to go into any CIS Forums, you could see discussions relating to Dave Filoni being talked down on by CIS members. These are people who read the lore and books that shows the effectively and brutality of the CIS that makes them a huge threat. The only instance we see the CIS being a compelling threat are the comics and the 2003 Clone Wars.
i feel like ive been transported into an alternate dimension where people have suddenly collectively forgotten what an absolute cluster fck of a mess up george lucas did with these prequel movies, the problem is everything, the problem is everything from the start. dave filoni's tv show didn't make the droid villains incompetent and ridiculous and laughable, fcking george lucas and jar jar binks did
@@michaelsalmon9832it’s more so both Dave and George Lucas, though the former did state in an interview he didn’t care for the Droids nor the CIS, only on the Republic side on things.
@@Jesse12489I did watch the show and movie, and if you’re referring to the bad batch episodes I’m fully aware of those so-called CIS Centered Episodes. I’m talking about how Dave Filoni made the CIS less threatening and not taken seriously. I do appreciate they made the CIS Sympathetic but it is overshadowed by the comedic and incompetency shown in TV.
@@apolloknight9521 There was a few episodes of the Clone Wars and Rebels that show a different side of the CIS. If yu watch it with a Delete scene in Attack of the Clones you can really see the CIS not the Corporate Alliance wanted to fight. They just wanted to leave. The show mainly focus the main CIS army and villains but not the people of the CIS. I guess you could say the same for the Republic. You can say what about the average Republic citizen. All we see is Clones. It wasn't until the Bad Batch we get to see how the galaxy feels. What about the people of the CIS or Republic.
the B1 droid is actually extremely impressive when you think about it, they can be built at shocking speeds for dirt cheap and can somehow still manage a degree of sentience. its a shame the separatists could not find out how to effectively use them.
You can say that the Separatists were set-up to fail by Sidious..... But there were only a couple of other people in the CIS in the people who knew that. Everyone else probably wanted to win the war.
I mean Dave Failoni had a Hand in making them what they are. Comically evil, doing evil things because they are evil. Because of his incompetence I know have to suffer the Star Wars Fans that claim that if Clones were evil they fight for the Separatists.
I may have suggested this before, but it would be cool to see a few videos on individual James Bond Villains that were too stupid to win. With 26 movies, I'm pretty sure there are at least a handful of villains you could make videos on how their plans wouldn't have worked.
I'm really surprised there aren't any yet. The majority of them fit in to this category by one common thing: They don't simply execute Bond when given the chance.
General Grievous's decision to join the CIS is more due to an event that occurred in his past when he was a warlord. A rival faction had attacked his faction and his faction retaliated. Then when his faction gained the upper hand in the conflict, his rival ran to the Republic demanding that they intervene. They did intervene and sided with the rival despite the fact that they had attacked him first.
It’s actually much worse sounding than that. More than a warlord, Grievous was a folk hero as important as the ones in myths and legends real people have followed religiously, and instead of it being an attack of a rival faction, it was a war of extermination launched on his people by an off-world invasion. The -international- galactic community’s response was so far removed from the facts of the circumstances that it’s in the running for one of the most visceral inversions of moral values in worldbuilding history.
Even if the Separatists were supposed to fail, the 2008 series makes you genuinely wonder how the Republic ever had a problem with them. Sidious wanted them to fight a brutal war that would stretch the Republic thin but it's surprising how the CIS even functions looking at the 2008 series, it makes Sidious almost seem stupid that he puts his faith into people like Grievous and Dooku that get captured every week. You really can't excuse that level of flanderization especially when they were shown to be pretty competent before.
The more I revisit the 2008 Clone Wars series, the more clear it becomes to me that the series and its writing has always been terrible in many regards. Even more infantile and embarrassing humour than in the Prequels, with major characters like Grievous and Dooku and 99% of the CIS being turned into nothing but comical buffoons or utterly weak and incompetent caricatures. Only for many of us we either have nostalgia goggles so we don't see the issues, or we just don't think about the series to a critical extent outside of the flashy light spectacle and emotional joyride that it is.
It doesn’t help that TCW retconned several important characters and events from the EU. General Grievous, instead of being a terrifying Jedi-slayer, is a stereotypical mustache-twirling villain who’s constantly thwarted and defeated by our main characters, power-scaling be darned. The bounty hunter Durge is a non-entity here, even though his inclusion would provide a much more credible threat to the Jedi and Republic in general. Durge’s Lance, one of the Separatists’ most successful campaigns, is not included in TCW, even though it would make the series way more accurate to the EU and interesting. Quinlan Vos is retconned from being an undercover Jedi in danger of falling to the dark side under Dooku to a laid-back clone of The Dude from The Big Lebowski. I could go on, but I would hope the point is clear
This was a battle of attrition for the Jedi, not matter the thousands of droids that they could destroy, the Separatists could easily replace them, replacing the Jedi Commander in other hand way harder and they numbers began to linger slowly till the end of the war, when Sidious began Order 66.
In defense of the Jedi, Obi-wan was outright told, and I imagine he told the council. And then they decided to do nothing about it, like when it was confirmed that Dooku was integral to the creation of the clone army
My favorite part is the Techno Union 🤣, and the comparison between the Skakoan and Dalek is kind of interesting and it's more interesting when you realize that George Lucus is a fan of Doctor Who and he did involve with the cartoon series, or it could just be random coincidence.
Everyone saying the droid army is bad is clearly suffering from memory loss, forgetting how - even without vehicles - the battle droids overpowered highly skilled and massed Jedis in the Geonosian Arena in Episode 2. And this was a very contained battlefield, just imagine if the Jedi had to face them on open ground. If the CIS would not have been puppeteered by Palpatine, they would have wiped the floor with the Jedi and Republic, especially since they wouldn't even have the clone army - only local militia from the core worlds.
Part of that was because no Jedi up to that point ever had to fight such a battle. Sure, Jedi could hold against a fee dozen armed attackers, most from a single direction, but the battle at the arena was just severe sensory overload. Which is why the few who survive wouldn't have much trouble against large open battlefields in the future.
I can agree with this. Everyone forgets that the main protagonist crew of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Mace Windu, Rex, Yoda, and more weren't the standard for fighting skill and power. They were actually fighting freaks of nature with, at times, ridiculous amounts of plot armor. In all actuality, the Republic was arguably losing the war for the majority of the time. The show, comics, and books realistically only cover the moments where the MCs succeeded and looked cool doing so.
Things like the IGBC and trade federation were supposedly neutral in the war. People like Sann Hill and Nute Gunray pretended to be scapegoats as “rogue members” of the companies. The republic probably knew the companies were dealing with both sides but they wouldn’t have been able to do much given how vital they were to the galactic economy
Thats Disney canon. In the old EU the entire megacorps seceded alongside whichever planets housed them and their businesses. Even if you want to hear disney canon out, setting up an army would cost such a tremendous amount for the 'rogues' that the 'neutral traders' would still have to be basically supply them. Effectively the Republic's money would pay for the battle droids which ravage their worlds anyway.
@@GrivehnThis was the case before Disney even bought stars wars, the cg Clones wars cartoon had shown the Trade Federation, Techno Union, and the Banking Clans still having representatives in the Republic Senate with their senators still speaking out in the Senate room. And the CG Clone Wars cartoon is actual canon and was made with George Lucas involved in it himself unlike the EU Books and whatnot.
@@brandonlyon730 Im fully aware and I fully couldnt care less. Feloni is a hack, and Disney is a non-canon mess. Clone Wars works as the old Multimedia Project, things have their place and make sense. Cant say the same about 'canon'.
In defense of the tactical droids, they are competent in making strategy when the factors are grounded in reality. Their accuracy rating isn't a boast, it's simply true. It's just that the main characters have plot armor and are written to beat the odds. It's like someone asking you "What's 1=1?" you'll be laughing and answering "2", then the guy pulls some voodoo shit and said "Nuh uh it's actually 1+1=3 because Cthulhu said so"
For a better depiction of the Clone Wars, I suggest the comics and novels released between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, they do a much better job of presenting the conflict than TCW did (especially when presenting Grevious). Also I'm surprised the Separatists didn't win through the power of Techno...
If you read the novels it's commonly alluded to the fact that the Republic really doesn't have much sway past the inner ring and mid range worlds; a lot of farther worlds were effectively own their own and were exploited or had a tough time of it breeding resentment
Separatist battledroids with good programing and no sabotage from space wizards would be one of the most powerful sci-fi armies ever. They'd steamroll the clone army and would probably fight a decent war even against Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k, as quadrillions of guardsmen and battle droids fight each other all the time.
guardsmen vs b1 droid?. same thing just with one side be meat and the other be metal. thought the guardsmen would have a problem during attrition as there corpse(if not corpse starched first) would draw disease carrions and germs whose would make the guardamen sick not a robot problem thought.
There's a reason The Terminator is scary and these battle droids are not. One is a lethal machine that is hyper-optimized for its purpose, and the other is a weakly built robot with all the flaws of a human soldier.
Pretty sure the creators of The Clone Wars just realized that the Separatists would have seemed too sympathetic if all they did was defend their own planets. So they tried to put them in the aggressor position as much as possible. As far as Sidious goes and how he brilliantly orchestrated the rise of the Empire but then couldnt aftually run it. I think it is also canonically stated that once he achieved his goal, he became more invested in his personal hobbies and vices than running the empire.
The separatists didn't win because Palpatine wanted to Republic to win. Honestly you could fault dooku for not just betraying Palpatine the moment the war started. Dooku could have steam rolled the republic and drown Palpatine in droid bodies. It's like dooku didn't realize he held all the cards and didn't play them.
there are several, they have issues because dramas demand it but for one example, look at the wizard word from Harry Potter. they have their own country, economy, culture, etc, and they also have the ears of world leaders. every British prime minister was educated on the wizarding world and kept under constant surveillance. so if the wizard needed to silence them, it could be done at a moment's notice, this also allowed them to shut down areas and roads when doing things that are hard to hide, like moving a dragon. this also meant no one would legally accidentally walk into the wizard world. no survey teams, news crew, etc.
IG series droid cost 65,000k, which is 65 times as much as the standard battle droid, more than 3 times more than a droideka. Making IG army is just implausible
The battle droids are only so fragile and non-intimidating because they’re going up against clones, the most elite organic soldier to exist, and Jedi, who have the force and lightsabers. Well there’s also some stupid things like them feeling pain and whatnot, but they fair far better against regular soldiers.
The droid army under the CIS was meant to fail. Palpatine specifically wanted an army that would lose against the "Republic" so that he could take power.
Yes, which they mentioned multiple times in the video, if you actually watched it. Saying "Sidious wanted it that way" doesn't explain why the Separatist leaders stupidly allowed themselves to be manipulated, or why Dooku went along with his master's sabotage of the Confederacy. Yet everyone in the comments still insists that is a valid excuse for the crazy stupidity of the entire Confederacy.
Regarding your criticism of the B1s around 12:00 I remember some piece of star wars lore (or maybe my own headcannon) that the star wars universe actually had much more advanced AI, like basically more advanced than human, about a decade or two before phantom menace, but there was some kind of robot revolution, so all subsequent units had to be "dumbed down". It would especially apply to your question as to how a malfunction can make a B1 much more effective. I think it's simply because what malfunctions is the "dumbing down" part of the hardware/software, which allows the droid to operate at full mental capacity. He also immediately switches sides which would suggest that the fear of a second robot revolution was justified. It does leave there question of why they weren't simply made with an older programming method, but maybe they lost the technology to do that in some way. Like it was cheaper to add a piece of software or hardware to limit the droids' intelligence instead of retooling the production lines. I don't know, just my thoughts. It also casts their attempts at surrender as struggling against that programming, which certainly casts the whole "shooting a droid after he dropped his weapon and raised his arms" thing in a new war-crimey light, since the B1s wouldn't be "cold, unfeeling machines" as you call them, but sapient beings, struggling against a kind of mind control. Not to mention the knock-on effects this interpretation has on other things. I mean 16:00 "I killed 100,000 sapients, but it's fine, because my religion tells me they don't have souls" is something that's usually said by the bad guys, but what do I know.
One of the few cases where this was part of the point, as it was purposefully built not to stand for long. That and Star Wars always makes the bad guys into total buffoons.
Unlike the OT, the Separitists where just nothing more than a farce to keep Palpatine's senate campaign going. Stuff like this is why I find the Prequels the most tolerable part of SW.
Yeah but also Media Zealot spewed a bunch of bullshit and omitted a ton of stuff to create his argument. It is contradictory nonsense. The fact is the CIS is crap by design, it isn't actually crap, like even if Sidious still limited droid troop numbers and intelligence of droids, they'd still wreck the Republic easily.
its kinda funny how the B1 droids are pretty much the most human acting character in Star Wars. The Clones, Jedi/Sith, Rebels, Empire, and Republic all act like robots, but the robots act like people.
the behavior of B-1 battle droids truly is the worst part. Their design can be justified with them being cheap to mass produce. But showing fear and surrendering is not what you want from the army that you don't care if survived the battle. Far better to get off as many shots as possible before going down.
The CIS are actually if anything the most believable faction in the Star Wars movies simply because they were intended to lose. Sidious wanted a threat that would let him take control of the senate, banking system and military under special war powers but a threat that, while initially looking unbeatable, would actually pose no threat at all. It was even designed so the CIS army could all be turned off with the flick of a single switch. General Grievous provides us with the most believable character of the whole lot in the Clone Wars as he is clearly the only one with any kind of intelligence who was not in on the plot... and he regularly expresses his frustration at the Sepratist leaders and the hopeless Battle Droid army he is forced to lead. When Sidious encountered the Trade Federation and Techno Union who were both stupid enough to believe they could conquer the galaxy with a bunch of B1 droids he must have been rubbing his hands while struggling to contain his laughter. When he found a bunch of other dissatisfied largely non-human worlds dumb enough to go along with it he must have fallen out of his seat with the opportunity thrown into his lap. And yet when you look at history, this kind of stupidity has repeated itself many times with alliances of hopelessly inadequate armies trying to take on an actually organised and professionally structured force and unbelievably full of their own superiority until it is proven otherwise... just without a SIth Lord pulling the strings behind the scenes.
I hate to be the Star Wars fan, but someone has to do it. *1. (Bad Battledroids)* Keep in mind that the Galaxy had been demilitarized for 1,000 years. In order to create an army that could stretch across its entirety, you couldn't exactly favor quality in any way. There's a reason why the Republic had no drive to replace to clones. While the B-1 droids were obviously inept in many cases, they could fill out the majority of the roles necessary to fight a war, especially given the Confederacy's (relatively) tiny population. These B-1's managed the navy, the defense of planets, logistics, and basically the entire war effort. They were comparatively horrible in combat, but they could be produced at a rate that the galaxy had never seen before, and were actually pretty effective. Keep in mind, they were basically fearless soldiers with decent weapons, the actual caliber of their effectiveness doesn't actually matter that much. Look at Nazi Germany, for instance; they had the best tanks and guns, but couldn't produce them, while the allies had good guns, and stomped them. *2. (Evil tactics)* The majority of the evil tactics we see in the Clone Wars are performed by General Grievous, who was actually remarkably evil even by CSI standards. Disregarding this being intentional on Sidious's side, he was actually very effective. Most of the war crimes he commits (which, keep in mind, no wars for 1k years, so probably none of those) are against Clones, which are only treated a little better than droids. He was also very effective, and had a personal vendetta against the Jedi. While it seems strange to join the CSI, these worlds had been subject to horrible governance for potentially hundreds of years, and had to deal with a monastic order of Jedi being their only effective judicial system- imagine how angry some of them were. *3. (Public Opinion)* As I already said, the public opinion could be explained by the Jedi alienating themselves. However, a large part could also be the lack of understanding of how bad war really was. I read somewhere that the first major battle of the American Civil War had spectators watching like it was a picnic before they realized how bad war was. These people had not experienced war for a thousand years, so it's no wonder they didn't understand its brutality. Again, most of the actual betrayal was done by Grievous, and in terms of Slavery and human shields; unfortunately the Republic and later Empire did this quite a bit as well. It can also be assumed that most planets could not survive by themselves, and the Republic seemed to be genuinely extremely unpopular. *4. (It's a kids show)* While you showed some comics, most of your source material was from TCW and Bad Batch, both of which- technically- being kids shows. While the Clone Wars eventually delved into the grittier parts of the war, it's important to mention that it was told from the Republic/Jedi's perspective; the CSI's side were only explored briefly. In the books, it's actually painted in a very different way. While the CSI were vilified, as was part of Sidious's plan, besides his few pawns enacting these atrocities, the CSI was actually, in many ways, the good guys. The will for the movement existed in reality, and while Canon doesn't show it, a large part of the Rebellion's forces are from the Confederacy, in Legends. Again, keep in mind the Republic was oftentimes manipulated (sometimes with actual mind control) by the Jedi, whose leader was hundreds of years old. The Republic was run by almost exclusively humans, and did nothing to stop slavery, piracy, and extortion. While the movies, and to a much smaller extent TV shows, don't show it, the corruption of the Republic was real, and the hatred of it just as much. You can actually believe the rise of fascism in the Republic when you remember they had been subject to any pirate group's whim, excluding a few rich systems, for a thousand years. It also isn't shocking why many people followed the Empire; they didn't give up many of their rights in reality, it's not like the Republic was a democracy, and were finally able to live in peace. I am very upset with myself for writing that, but bad habits die hard, I guess. Obviously, most if this stuff has been hid by Disney due to their love of "good guy bad guy" and the movies basically portraying that. But, the Republic was never portrayed as the good guys in the movies.
It's funny how Dukoo's turn to the Dark Side was because he saw through the corruption of the Galactic Senate and the hypocrisy of the Jedi Order. Yet the Separatist nation he created was just a more delusional reflection of the Republic. The CIS fielded armies of Battle Droids. The Republic used Clone Legions. The Republic was headed by a Senate controlled by a central leader through wartime powers. Same thing with the Confederacy. Dukoo started off with reasonable motives, but instead of working to create a better Galaxy, he let Sideous tell him what to do, and the Dark Side made Dukoo himself a hypocrite.
"The Jedi are fools, answering to a corrupt Republic led by their ancient enemy. The only logical course of action is to actively make everything worse. Welp, time to make a me cool red lightsaber."
It's the nature of the Force. The Force wants cool lightsaber fights between people with a personal connection, Father vs son, Teacher vs Student etc. It's willing to burn the Galaxy to ashes just to set the stage and betraying a former Jedi master or two means nothing compared to the opening notes of a John Williams fight scene.
5:28 In Jar Jar's defense, Palpaptine played him for a chump, too, after he was put in the unenviable position of subbing for Padme's Senate seat while she was lying low to avoid all those pesky assassination attempts.
I feel this is an easy mark. Their stupidity was by design. The emperor didn’t want a large army of awesome battle droids to deal with after taking over.
5:12 Geonosians were never displayed to be stupid, even in TCW individuals can be seen making decisions on their own that fits the current situation. That plus I believe the hive mind aspect helps to block the manipulations from Jedi mind tricks
The clone wars would be absolutely brutal for one primary reason: neither side is capable of surrendering. The clones are conditioned and the droids programmed to never break (or at least they should be, I ignore a couple counter-examples mostly on the less-likely droid side). A normal army would break and rout before it reaches 10% casualties but a droid army would (should) fight to the death with the exceptions of strategic retreats which only puts off the fighting for later. The clones with their programming chips, conditioning, and being literal child soldiers, would have a much higher rout threshold as well. This means fighting an enemy army becomes an extermination campaign.
Sidious was ingenious for starting a civil war to grab power, afterwards most civilians would not want to back the Rebellion because it reminded them too much of the Separatists. It turns out Sidious had ordered Grievous to do as many war crimes as possible to sour the public perception of any future thoughts. The Sith thinking 100 steps ahead. Too bad the Empire was bad enough people risked the scorn and then the Empire's suppression just made it worse.
When I first watched the Phantom Menace, in my early teens, I remember thinking that Sideous wasn't Palpatine. Because it was too obvious. Too simple-minded. I remember arguing that it would've been a stupid decision, and I believed that Lucas was a better story-teller than that.
Evil twin, clone, another person changing his hologram to look like Palpatine. Anything would be more engaging than the obvious... that the universe would have to be made unbearable incompetent to not notice.
Fun fact, Dooku was originally supposed to speak during his death, but Christopher Lee said that Dooku was not the type to bargain or beg when he was about to die so they changed it to his surprised look at Palpatine’s betrayal instead
An excellent decision that was. Dooku was intensely stoic and pragmatic and would've understood the entirety of palatine's hoodwinking of him the moment he looked in his eyes as Anakin had him at his mercy. Christopher Lee was such a treasure of an actor
Christopher Lee knowing his characters better than the writers always impressed me.
Dooku ask thought that the CIS would be used to win the war and become the empire and that he was to let anakin win and be spared
Christopher Lee also had a rather unique, personal and extensive understanding of what evil people are like just before they die... He'd probably never seen someone beg ( IF they saw it coming that is) just before they were summarily disposed of, but shock definitely.
What a legend he was and what a life he lived.
As a dumd kid, I always saw him as begging with his eyes and body language. I wouldn't call it stoic or shock.
Y’know the idea that Mace’s reflection of the force lighting causing brain damage to Sidious would explain a lot
Yes
It definitely hurt and majorly disabled him.
you could say he got a...
brain injury from it.
*ba dum tss*
Would help explain his idiotic overconfidence in the original trilogy much better (as well as his sudden lack of subtlety when ruling as Emperor)
@@DoratTheKillerIt wasnt sudden.
The rebellion was made during ROTS, no other major revolts or threats to his rule.
The rebellion was made by things outside his control at the time it was made.
I can't believe I'm defending Separatists, but Sidious is partially to blame here.
Played both sides like a chess game
A dude with literal magical wizard powers whose specialty being staying hidden from other wizards and manipulating people without their knowledge managed to control this loosely tied confederacy from within! I'm mind blown!
It's the Lost Cause all over again
They were corrupted from the start. Without Sideous forcing things to happen as he did, they would have been established later and with much more aid and probably would have just walked away without issue.
I think the best outcome to the Clone Wars would be Dooku, Sidious and their objectively evil pawns being outed, the Jedi removing themselves from political affairs or getting wiped out, the CIS winning, and than immediately fracturing into truly independent systems.
The best lesson you can take from
The Separatist is how easy it is for projects meant to challenge corruption to become vehicles for someone else’s corruption.
*cough cough* the Soviets *cough*
@goroakechi6126 Also, the US in the 1700s to 1800s. Standing against alleged British tyranny and corruption only to face corruption from the slave owning states.
@hyperion3145 and probably all that stuff they did to native americans too
Did the South manipulate the Constitutional machinery to protect and advance a corrupt end? Yes. The fight against the British was a clash between ruling classes. The gentry-aristocracy of Britain and the gentry-business class of the colonies who were now rich enough to start a war. Parliament could have avoided the Revolution - UK's worst humiliation before Dunkirk - altogether by simply granting the colonies a kind of autonomy under the King. Obviously sending people to London was impracticable. Intransigence in London - and hot heads in the colonies - pushed it to war. @@hyperion3145
@@goroakechi6126 And chances are, most of what you "know" about the Soviet-Union is propaganda. 😄
I have to put here that Sidious is the main reason why the Separatist failed, because they were never supposed to succeed in the first place. They were solely a boogyman to provide the springboard for Palpatine.
If Palpatine was out of the picture, the CIS likely would have crushed the Republic in a fight.
Especially if they didnt have to put breaks on their droids. Tri-fighters, droidekas, magna-guards and similar cutting edge designs were few and far between, and they could have made them smarter still.
No they won’t! This myth needs to go away. The Galactic Republic has nearly ALL the manpower & industry under their control. It’s the main reason why the Sith Empires couldn’t conquer them before! And the Republic can make droids as well. …At a quicker pace! Kuat, Rothana, Mon Cal, Rendili, Alsakan, Corellia, & the other big name worlds (& their subsidiaries), supported the Republic & their successors. They make droids as well…
Without the Sith, the CIS would have lasted decades at best. It would also not have been nearly as evil. They both had very noble intention. So, did the Republic as well. Both were hypocrites. That’s the beauty of it all, really…
If palpatine was out of the picture, the cis wouldn't have even come into existence as it did.
I mean that doesn’t really defend them now does it. Their still to stupid to notice how hard their being played.
@@shanweeboy Yes, there would’ve been. In one form or another. The Late Republic wasn’t too kind to a lot of worlds outside the Core, Colonies, & expanse regions. The animosity between the Human species, the “Humanlike” species that benefited from being Near-Human, & the nonhumans (everyone else), were boiling over. Look up “High Human Culture” in Star Wars. It was an Imperial term, but this went on since before the Empire. The Sith, not just Sidious, cleverly exploited these facts. Either way, the Republic wins. It would have changed its ways though. Sadly, it needed a civil war for this to happen, because that’s what it was…
I'm sure others have already commented this, but Grievous's hatred of Jedi predate the Shuttle crash.
He hates them because he lead his people in a war against an insectoid species from a neighboring planet that regularly pillaged and enslaved his people.
Once they started winning, the Insectoids ran to the republic and said the Kaleesh attacked them unprovoked.
The Republic sided with the Insectoids, ordering the Kaleesh to stand dowm and enforcing the order by Jedi, put a blockade/trade embargo on the Kaleesh, causing most of the planet to starve, and forcing him to basically sell himself as a mercenary to low biders so he could try and keep black market trade going to support his planet.
Basically, the Republic and Jedi Punished and Murderered (via imposed famine) his people for standing up to their oppressors, giving him justified hatred toward both institutions.
Sounds like recent events
@@Okja1ONE meaning?
It is a very good piece of world building which I wish we saw more of because that is exactly the sort of thing that happens with real life democratic institutions, especially the US, and it shows well that the republic was on its way to becoming the empire even before Palpatine became a senator.
@@seekingabsolution1907 you are not well versed in history are you? the us doesn't even rank that high
@@marley7868 The US has most certainly done things like what seekingabsolution1907 describes. I take it you aren't very well-versed in the history of the Cold War, are you? Read up on what led to the Vietnam War, for instance. General Grievous' backstory has some interesting parallels with that of Ho Chi Minh, who was fighting the French colonizers of Vietnam (called Indochina at the time) and asked the US for help, as he had read of the American Revolution and admired the ideals of our nation.
The US basically ignored him, as we weren't going to help some little Asian fellow against a European power. So Uncle Ho turned to some other chaps who _did_ listen to him--the Soviets... and that got America's attention, and we ended up fighting a long, bitter and ultimately futile war against Uncle Ho's folks in the north of the country whilst propping up some rather nasty sons of bitches in the government of South Vietnam.
We did similar things in Latin America--supporting Pinochet in Chile and the Contra rebels in Nicaragua during the Iran-Contra Affair.
As an American, I still do believe that my country is ultimately a force for good, rather than evil in this world. After all, the US generally doesn't tend to engage in naked land grabs (like what Russia is currently doing in Ukraine and what the CCP have muttered loudly about doing to Taiwan for years) by force, and it also tends to at least pay some homage to the ideals of human rights and equality, although in practice, we do often fall short of the noble ideals on which our nation was founded. The USA doesn't have clean hands, but given how low the bar is set, we're far from the most savage of the bunch on Sol-3. This is evidenced by the comparative difference in how our forces treated the people in occupied Japan and Germany after WWII versus how the Soviets treated the people in the areas of Europe they occupied after WWII.
Nobody in an American-occupied zone after the Second World War was prevented from leaving, unless he was under arrest and facing trial for war crimes. The Soviets and their East German lackeys tended to shoot far more people running AWAY from the Berlin Wall than towards it--the wall was to keep people in, not out of East Berlin.
I love how he described Palpatine as someone he's thrown tomatoes at for "at least" two videos, implying there's a possibility he's done it more and simply can't remember.
Well his biggest achievement is winning a war against himself. Aided along the way by probably the worst Jedi Order since the Order even began
The CIS were the Rebel Alliance without plot armor.
The issues the Outer Rim had against the Republic were very real, but what could have been a legitimate movement was hijacked by the Sith and greedy industrialists.
Nah the CIS were the Rebel Alliance with negative 3 trillion plot armour, in and out of universe
how so? the rebels didn't need plot armor they sorta had everything they needed
@@marley7868 Not at all. Without plot armour the Rebels would be wrecked. In both continuities.
@@tk-6967 again why you have failed to say they had everything they needed and let us be frank the empire wasn't exactly what I'd call stable
@@marley7868yeah a regime that can be completely tanked by a single assassination is pretty much the definition of unstable government.
The minute Palpatine died the galaxy celebrated, reinstated the republic and senate and disbanded the galactic army
The B1s feel like they where designed for basic labour and the Trade Federation decided to just give them a blaster and gave them a battle program that was contracted to the lowest bidder.
That's basically what happened. B1's were never really meant for combat and only started getting pressed into that to fight pirates. Them being connected to a central computer was meant to alleviate this issue but after that cost them to lose Naboo, the TF decided to just stuff the cheapest possible combat programs into their B1's. B1's can barely run the programs they have, which causes them to act so slow, dimwitted and stressed all the time. It's honestly kinda of tragic all things considered.
@@rhymenoceros3303 No, the B1s were proven to be effective, but legal limits prevented them from ever reaching their potential, and with the Sith and corporates purposefully giving them shit tactics, they would always lose.
No, the B1s were proven to be effective, but legal limits prevented them from ever reaching their potential, and with the Sith and corporates purposefully giving them shit tactics, they would always lose.
@rhymenoceros3303 flase the B1 was Orginally designed as a combat droid. The first model, the OOM series was perfectly capable without a central control computer. They were not non-cons pressed into service against pirates. But dedicated combat droids that proved super effective against pirates.
The CCC model and post-CCC modles were layer designs, cheap downgrades intended to be built in vast numbers. Not the orginal design. And were meant to simply be basic ground troops and suffered little issues there. They were however pushed into roles meant for OOM models due to sith interference and were further downgraded due to a combination of Republic spec ops sabotage and sith corpution induced basic operating prededures.
But even post-CCC basic droids could be super deadly when their programing was reworked. Mr Bones is a clear example.
@@tk-6967you’re not wrong. If the CIS were to improve on the design, we would have b1 battle droids who would have fight similarly to the that droid in the comic that was shown in the video.
Plus, I think that one episode in the Bad Batch Season 2 show case that the B1 Battle Droids can be a capable threat.
Imagine losing a war when your soldiers dont get tired, dont get hurt, dont need food or water, dont get ill, and can be built in minutes.
Um have you actually watched star wars?
ha...........*any politician and military general ignoring the NCO pleads
Order 99, a shutdown code in the Droid army.
“Don’t get hurt” is debatable, there are a few instances where they cry “My eyes!”, they also express when they feel great.
Well their strengths were their weaknesses. Huge human error with leader ship ( a majority of their generals were bankers, scientist, or politician with no sense of tactics and relied on death march with numbers) and a lot of problems do to " cost savings" measure aka being cheap.
To my knowledge the CIS had the Jedi spread out thin across the galaxy and were able to endlessly replace their droids and starships. They were winning the battles only to lose the war when all of the droids were ordered shut down, leaving the handful of organics fighting for them to be thrown into a 180 situation...
There's definitely something to be said for the CIS's ability to wearher attrition. A lost clone would take years even with accelerated growth to be battle ready. A lost battle droid battalion could be replaced in hours to minutes.
Rebels also directly tells us that Kalani or more droids like him would have dramatically pushed the war into CIS's favour. And that wasn't even Kalani's assessment, it was Rex's.
Had the CIS not been in Scrotum's control, the CIS easily could've won the war
@@LordRunty Except in both cannon and legend, as far as i remember, the battle of coruscant happenned specifically because the CIS was running out of ships.
Sure you can build trillions of droids easily, but you also have to move them, and I don't think their ship building capabilities were that different from the republic.
@@evoluxman9935 No, actually the Battle of Coruscant was for Palpatine to finally gain supreme power. Having Grevious and his fleet show up and spread terror on most of the Senate who to them, the war mostly felt like this far off conflict that wasn't really affected them. The moment the victory was won, the Senate quickly voted to give Palpatine supreme executive powers which many thought was just streamlining the war effort; no more debates on issues, Palpatine just makes the decisions to help achieve an overall end to the war.
@@evoluxman9935The balance in space was roughly on par, however the CIS was cut-off in multiple parts due to being on the galactic mid-outer rims (a pretty obvious parallel must i say).
The surprise assault on Coruscant was a trap from Palps from the start, as the CIS fleet got devastated between the Home Fleet and further reinforcements on standby that CIS intel had no idea of.
The Republic could very well have won through local superiority, Napoleon style, but this battle meant that the CIS armada was reduced to the point that the frontline immediately collapsed, meaning the man(droid)power advantage was worth nothing without the means to protect their production and transportation.
The CIS would have otherwise very slowly bled to death, probably hoping that the Republic would bleed-out/tap-out faster and give-in to their demands.
This is one of the few moments where the faction being so dumb is actively the point.
Sidious wanted a threat to unite everyone under the Republic and, eventually, under him. As we see in Episode 3, once everyone united under him and he began the creation of the Galactic Empire, he obliterated the CIS and sent Vader to kill its leaders.
Driving neutral systems to the Republic = No need for an invasion by the Empire, since they're just under new management doctrine.
Lumping the worlds who were failed by the Republic in with the corporations who committed war crimes under quota = Palpatine's critics get discredited.
Droid Armies = The galaxy becoming more distrustful of droids, allowing Sidious to have an organic army of conscripts to entrench the Empire and be affected by the Force.
But why would the Seperatists go along with that. They had their own goals. They thought Sideous was on their side but they would have distanced themselves from him when they noticed his guidance was terrible for them.
It's just a badly written pile of crap.
The point of the video isn't that it makes no sense for the separatist to be underpowered, it's that it makes little sense so many dumb people can even conduct a war in the first place. Hard to believes trillions of people are under CIS regime and not a single one of them has an half competent leader, despite legitimate reasons for secession.
@@clarkmichaels822 Most of the Separatists didn't even know Sidious existed. To them, they thought Dooku was their leader and much of what they were hearing was Republic propaganda. Remember, from a certain point of view, the Republic was the aggressors since they attacked first.
@@clarkmichaels822 Count Dooku was in charge of basically everything military related within the Separatists.
They didn't know that Count Dooku was working for Palpatine. And anyone that got close to the truth or disagreed too much he would just murder.
To be honest Clone wars 2008 retcons a lot of lore and seperatists in the EU were actually more threatening, especially during the battle of Jabiim which caused the republic huge losses
Jabiim was quite possibly the best Clone Wars content storywise. Top 3 easily, in any case.
The only seperatists in the EU that I am aware of are the British.
@@scalion44y22 good one
Star Wars Legends Grievous was literally just a plot armoured Gary stu. It made literally no sense that none of the Jedi simply used the force to overpower Grievous e.g. suspending Grievous in the air so he can't move and crushing his metal body. There is nothing strategic or brilliant about Grievous' infinite plot armor. Star Wars Legends is complete trash.
Oh yes Grievous's infinite plot armor as all the Jedi he fights are turned into bumbling incompetent clowns who forgot they can use the force to easily get rid of him.
Wow you just listed a lot of badly written, shallow and poor excuses for Grievous' badly written victories over Jedi who should be able to kill him a hundred times over if they had functioning brain cells.
I'm well aware of the poorly written excuses that are made for Grievous' infinite plot armor.
None of your excuses make any sense. You have to turn your brain off to pretend that any of the Grievous's victories made any sense at all.
Even a Padawan knows how to freeze an enemy or bind them in the air with the force. So there is no excuse for Grievous being able to defeat multiple Jedi Masters.
Relentless Attacks, Really? There is literally no reason why any competent Jedi shouldn't be able to immediately freeze Grievous and stop him on the first try. We literally see Jedi constantly taking down armies of robots with ease.
Fear? Really, Shouldn't the Jedi be trained to take down giant monsters & far worse enemies on a daily basis.
The only reason Grievous actually survives in the 2002 cartoon is because he is a Gary Stu with infinite plot armor. That's it.
Your excuses are getting more and more asinine. It shouldn't take a Jedi on Mace Windu's level to defeat an overrated cyborg with no defences against force abilities.
And no, Grievous establishes that most of his victories are against Jedi Knights. You are pulling poorly written excuses out of your ass to try to defend the extremely bad writing of Grievous.
"Unorthodox Fighting Styles" Grievous is literally just swinging around multiple light sabers.
Literally nothing stops any competent Jedi from using the force to rip the lightsabers out of his hand, or ripping his metal armor from his skin or freezing Grievous in place if the 2002 Clone Wars Cartoon was written by someone with a functional brain.
Literally all of Grievous' fights would have ended with him being instantly defeated by any force user.
Your excuses for Grievous' plot armor victories are complete garbage and completely nonsensical.
@@Grivehn
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha First of all, you didnt even seem to reply to the correct thread, because I said nothing about Grievous here.
Second, the Jedi Order is full of perfect unemotional robots who make no mistakes and are effectively higher beings or angels, right? Sure. The Jedi Order during the Clone Wars wasnt at its most corrupt and weakest, or close enough at any rate, right? Wrong. The only worse ones I can think of is the Army of the Light on Ruusan and generally the Jedi who retreated back to the Core during the dark millenias between Kotor and Bane era.
Point is, youre expecting padawans to know no fear, literally CHILDREN. Mind you, Anakin, the Chosen One, fell to the dark side because of his fears. And Obi-wan, the model Jedi, let it happen.
I'll agree that Tartakovsky CW put spectacle over realism in combat, but it ends there. Grievous' method of breaking the spirit of Jedi before engaging in combat is one of the smartest approaches to fighting them in the entire saga. The only smarter I can think of is HK-47 who said 'anything goes' such as poison, assassination etc.
Obviously I hard disagree with your takes, and for being so hostile, please gtfo. I dont know if you like Disney or not, but if you hate Legends its enough for me to be hostile right back at you. And if you do like Disney SW, which includes Feloni's TCW, everything you say is invalid by proxy.
Another thing to note is that the corporations within the Separatists would actively withhold schematics and plans for some of their weapons and vehicles in order to maintain profits. This is why vehicles like the Defoliator tank and Super Tanks were never mass produced. You can't exactly fight effectively when internal factions focus on profit over maximizing combat efficiency.
Why are you talking like this actually happened
@@Daz912why are you watching this??
The defoliator tank could have been a really issue…
@@Daz912 Oh look, a boorish bore.
America was full of internal factions that focus on profit over maximizing combat efficiency during every war they ever fought.
About General Grievous, he's actually supposed to be a brilliant strategist on top of the jedi hunter with highest body count. The 2002 cartoon made this clear and the separatists achieved many victories against the republic thanks to him. The 3D cartoon decided to turn him alongside every single separatist droid into babbling buffoons and nothing but comic reliefs.
Yes. The 2002 clone war cartoon is the one worth watching. It is a shame about the time skip as I would like to see more of it.
@@brianpembrook9164 the 2005 one is also good, it just has this direction of making the CIS as these goofy cartoon villains more so for entertainment sake. The video is great but I don't think too much of the show shouldve been taken into consideration for argument's sake.
@@brianpembrook9164 but yeah, in 2002 we see grievous strategic brilliance as his first introduction is a jedi general desperate that they got outmaneuvered by him and utterly decimated.
I still love the General
Jedi scum!
Interestingly, the main reason for grievous being in the position he was in is because he was just the best way for Sheev to fuel the republics Xenophobia. He’s an Alien robot cyborg wielding Jedi weapons slaughtering his way through the mid rim. Dooku wasn’t the face of the confederacy for most people, grievous was. So ofc after the fall of the republic they used grievous as propaganda for to further turn the GE human centric
Yes which is why Sidious instructed Grievous to cause as much destruction and suffering as possible.
16:30 One thing I should mention here, the Separatists did not build the Droidekas, they are not related at all to the other droid soldiers. The Trade fedaration was buying them from the Colicoids, a race of non-humanoid Outer Rim aliens known for two things, being amoral arms traders and eating the flesh of sapient beings (including other Colicoids); even the Hutts are afraid of them. It stands to reason these droids are very expensive and the cowardly Separatist leaders aren't anxious to haggle further with such beings, who thankfully, are a neutral faction.
if so that brings up the question of the separatist didn't just reverse engineer them so they wouldn't have to pay as much for them?
@@spartan7375Cause then the Colicoids start selling to the Republic at a discount.
Aparrently they were payed for with "exotic meat"
This is bullshit by the way, the Colicoids were CIS aligned.
@@spaceman8935 then the separatist have to improve the design kind of like an arms race
Nute Gunray's loyalty makes sense as he owed his position to Palpatine arranging the deaths of his former cohorts in the Trade Federation. Combined with his natural cowardice it creates an easy sunken cost fallacy for him to stay with Palpatine.
plus let's be real what can he do? he's nothing without palpy
I really hope we'll see you rip into the Galactic Republic as well some day. They are more than deserving.
Also, still hoping you'll one day start a series talking about the Sci-Fi civs/villains that you actually think aren't dumb as hell.
To be fair, the Galactic Republic existed and thrived for thousands of years until it was ultimately demolished from within by a literal super wizard, I think they were pretty fine and every point made in the video would come down to it literally just being sabotage from within.
Would love to see him do an analysis on functional sci-fi civilizations.
you mean?
th-cam.com/video/far77PXAHG0/w-d-xo.html
ep 3 of this series?
He won't do functional civs because negativity brings more clicks sadly
Honestly the main problem was with the Jedi Order. The Sith reemerged numerous times and yet the Jedi never learned to always stay vigilant. Just look at the amount of times that they assumed the Sith were extinct. And there were Sith walking near them for decades and they never noticed it!
35:38 Perhaps this is because as far as living weapons go, Greivous is both powerful and entertaining to watch be sicked upon his enemies.
I must say, Tartokofsky gave this guy a hell of a debut.
I believe the reason for The Geonosians being immune to Jedi Mind Tricks is because they operate on a hive mind
I don’t think they are fully a hive mind but can definitely tap into a neural pathway
That's a good or bad thing? The hivemind
That should make them easier to mind-trick.
@@Mark-in8juhow so? That would be like trying to trick millions of people at once
@@inquisitionexpecter4263Depends on the situation. Good for not getting mind-tricked/mind-controlled, bad when the central figure of the hive mind is prematurely killed
The separatists were always a paper tiger made to appear like a real threat through Palpatine's rigging of the game.
And could have been made into an actual threat at the push of a button had the plan needed more credibility.
As lots of people pointed out: all of the issues and idiocy of this faction were influenced by Sidious attempting to gain power, they were never meant to win and were likely used as a backup if his identity got revealed by the Jedi (where he would likely join Dooku and use them to steamroll the Galaxy), Sidious needed Dooku, Grevious and the Separatists to be a big enough threat to put fear into his faction in order to get his supporters to grant him more power until he's got enough to establish the Galactic Empire. If the Separatists had been an independent non Sith controlled faction, they could have just endlessly building droids to the point of outnumbering their enemy by 1000 to 1. Meanwhile the B1s were intended to be deployed in EXTREMELY massive numbers which (as shown by the impact of the Geonosian Arena, is pretty effective against the average Jedi)... and the Battle Droid issues mostly come from Lucas/Filoni's idioitc choices in TCW.
Yes, which they mentioned multiple times in the video, but saying "Sidious wanted it that way" doesn't explain why the Separatist leaders stupidly allowed themselves to be manipulated, or why Dooku went along with his master's sabotage of the Confederacy. Yet everyone in the comments still insists that is a valid excuse for the crazy stupidity of the entire Confederacy. Also, although the B1's strategy of overwhelming numbers is clear, it's still a dumb strategy. We've seen way more deadly robot armies in plenty of fictional settings, and this video explained the B1's deficiencies at length while suggesting viable alternatives.
Pretty much every single bad gripe that he makes in the video is really limited to just The Clone Wars TV show, not the actual Prequel Trilogy or the Clone Wars Multi-Media Project.
@@sdagoth3037most separatist leaders didn’t even know of sidious , and believed what dooku said or what sidious promised. And if one doesn’t know they’re being manipulated how can they stop it. And dooku himself thought he would rule along side sidious. This he went along with the plan.
@@sdagoth3037 Including Star Wars itself. Back in the KOTOR era there were battle droids that even the weakest of which was far far better than any B1 battle droid. Yet, 4000 years later and the battle droids that should've advanced significantly are far worse than the ones that were in use during KOTOR.
@@sdagoth3037 "Why didn't those dumb Separatists just watch Episode III?"
I thought the whole point was that Palpatine was manipulating the separatists to keep the war going as long as possible so he could consolidate power, and they only existed for as long as they did because he wanted them to
They could have just jacked up their prices and got anything they wanted without declaring open war. The Jedi weren't interested at all until two of their own got a failed assassination attempt.
The entire point of the blockade was to start a war. Palps needed the occupation to go through in order to oust Valoran from office.
You mean the corporations? Well they didn't declare war. Media Zealot completely mischaracterised and omitted a bunch of lore for his arguments to even work, he is spewing bullshit.
Jedi was consripted though
Funnily enough, the incompentence of the CIS make perfect sense to me. The hierarchy is almost entirely rich, out of touch people who just care about more money. After seeing many of the decisions made by real life rich people, its completely believable for a whole bunch to flock to someone who's powerful and promising more money. Plus none of them know the first thing about warfare, but wouldn’t be willing to say as such. So whenever Dooku commands something kinda stupid to deliberately hamstring the CIS, they probably all just nod and clap, even if they're thinking it's not a great idea. Add-on that at least some were installed by Sidious into their positions because they were useful pawns, and the likely tendency for anyone who questions it to disappear and they'll all be yes men overconfident in their own abilities making terrible decisions for themselves and the galaxy
The Separatist Senate was far closer to Padme than any placeholder corrupt politician the Republic had to offer.
Very true. The issue I mostly have with the CIS (especially in the clone wars) is the depiction of dooku and grievous. Like mentioned in the video, their characters are quite inconsistent and don’t really fit the role they seem to be made for.
The CIS has a hundred potential incompetent commanders they could use as a recurring character, grievous should only show up when shit needs to go down. Apparently he’s capable of performing genius tactical maneuvers against Jedi lead forces, which is what got him into his position in the first place, even performing a surprise attack on Coruscant, dispatching the senate guards and clones protecting Palpatine, and slaying several Jedi along the way. Yet he gets bested by gungan regulars? Let’s see the tactical genius by showing him wiped out a company of clones with a synergistic deep strike or something, let him kill some Jedi.
Then dooku. I can’t put it better than anyone else already has, but he could have been far more interesting.
I thought my eyes were deceiving me, but no! It's real! MediaZealot has a new video! Yay!!!
There was that one episode of the bad batch that showed what was possible when even B1 battle droids are effectively used.
Mfs had like overlapping fields of fire using heavy support from AT and artillery. Had MANPADs spread out to lauch quick, surprise attacks on air transports and support. Even had squads of B1s working with droidekas in tge tight interior to make effective killing corridors showing some layered defenses.
The strength of the droids is how exceptionally cohesive they can be and their excellent coordination. Issue is that they're only ever as good as their commander, being much mire of tools than the individual agents that are the clones.
They're only ever as effective as the plot requires them to be really, much like the empire so it's almost never.
Speaking of commanders, for some reason, B1s out of all droids had to prove from experience and combat to be promoted rather than just make a commander droid, what really makes the CIS not work is just how bad the B1 was used and made
Issue is that most of the CW series shows the clones winning and the droid army as mere clowns
I do appreciate you pointing out that everyone became a general out of nowhere. “General Obvious” made me happy 😄
“Anakin, are we to achieve the separation we have wanted?”
“Sort of. Into how many pieces would you like to be separated?”
A lot, if not most of the Separatists' shortcomings can easily explained. Sidious needed them to lose the war so he could pull the rug out from under the Republic and create the Empire.
Yes, which they mentioned multiple times in the video, but that saying "Sidious wanted it that way" doesn't explain why the Separatist leaders stupidly allowed themselves to be manipulated, or why Dooku went along with his master's sabotage of the Confederacy.
Dooku thought he could take Sidious’ place in the new Empire. He was undercut by Sheev, unfortunately for him.
21:32 I loved you used the scene from the bad batch! It was so fitting to see behind the scenes that Dooku didn’t even spare his own worlds from his war efforts (stealing and ruining the worlds he so called claimed to want to protect)
Imo realistically the droid army is insanely good. Mass produced for cheap, does not need food, water or sleep, usually has no moral that can break and losses don't really affect people at home much. Great design really. Like even if a single clone is worth dozens of them that would still be more than worth it and in the show and movies only important characters tend to destroy that many B1s.
There are actually a lot of reasons why it failed
From the looks of it due to a lack of care for mind wiping to prevent personalities from developing (like R2) almost all droids gained some form of a personality and thus gave them morale as well as a notable decrease in quality
The B1 just sucked as a backbone infantry. It was cheap sure, but you could beat it in a 1v1 by riping its joints apart (not punch it, but it really was that fragile) they were too lazy to integrate a gun into its arm like the B2 which was a hinderance since that gun could be salvaged by the enemy. It also didn't help that they weren't just backbone infantry, they did everything, ship command, commanders (somehow requiring experience and effort for a promotion rather than just making a commander droid), maintenance, and police, again, they were fragile as hell and performed poorly at their jobs
A lack of competant command; the tactical droid from the beginning of the war sucks harder than the B1, sure it could devise sometimes creative and decisive battles, but its limited by the fact its a droid, and has been shown at some points to be so stupid that if they were alive they would forget to breathe, the super tactical droid was a needed upgrade but came too late in the war
@simpleviewer1334 it funny that all of these issues were introduced in the 08 clone wars. In legends , CIS was smoking the republic.
@@Saxton_Hoovy The more I learn about this, the more apparent how watered down the narrative appeal became.
TCW really watered down how effective the Separatist army was, because our heroes win pretty much every time. Any loss attributed to the Republic is either rectified shortly afterward or mentioned in passing for something offscreen. Realistically, the Republic should have been having a much harder time because the Jedi weren’t meant or trained to be military generals, which would lead to quite a few errors in leadership. Grievous is also basically a non-threat in the show because he always loses or runs away when seriously threatened.
What’s funny is that unlike most entries in this series the CIS’ flaws are intentional in universe.
The terrain federation came close but it’s flaws were intentional in a meta sense for the sake of satire.
As others have said, the Separatists were stupid by design, all according to Sidious' plans. 😁
You would think the Separatist leadership would seek to improve it with or without Darth Plotdevice
@@gideonmele1556 they did, in the comics Disney nuked there were several attempts to fix the issue including upgrading the B1. but most were exposed in secret to the republic and in one comic, their most successful B1 went sentient and destroyed the plans.
@@gideonmele1556 You are not wrong...I just figure that Sidious...I mean Plotdevice...is using a range of tactics we do not see to control the leadership of the Separatists. Anyone not controlled by Duku would be blackmailed/threatened to go along, and that he would use the Dark Side to influence any of the Separatist leaders that were susceptible to that.
"Sidious' plans" which involved the destruction of a death star...
@@gideonmele1556 By CIS leaders do you mean the corporates on the Council or the Senate? The Senate didn't have any military power, and the corporates were in on Sidious' plan for the most part.
In fairness to the trade federation, the lore explanation of the battle droids was that they were the best combat droids they were allowed at the time for private defense purposes. They weren't allowed a real military, so they mass produced the closest they could get. Then Sidious had Dooku convince the Seperatists that keeping said terrible defense droids was actually a good idea for most of their army due to how cheap they were to mass produce. Basically, at first they were a legal loophole, and then they became a bad tactical gameplan later.
But then he mentions a source about how the B1s can be better without adding other components.
Im waiting for the day our boy has the balls to tackle The Imperium. Thats gonna be like a 2 hour episode
Really, isn't every faction on WH40K pretty screwed up?
@@louisduarte8763 You gotta start somewhere, I guess...
40K is partly satirical. Even most diehard fans will tell you the inperium is a dumb mess protected plot armour so thick, the fact it's plot armour is actually cannon.
@judoisoww every 40k faction would need their own 3 episode lore video...minus the Tyrannids. The Tyranids actually are competent.
And the Orks weaponied their own stupidity to be deadlier
I think the elder would like to have a word with you. They are never allowed to win.
Though I'm not sure that rules out plot armor.
Hill is like a coworker that got fired for his constant theft of office supplies, but every other employee still invites him to everything.
When Palpatine is running both armies, you know the galaxy is screwed.
I think it's absolutely hilarious how you can put these videos together and mix in some pretty decent dubstep well done sir.
I’m just about to sit down to homemade chinese so this upload could not be more well timed. This is one of my favourite series on youtube, no joke.
Congrats! Is it a boy or a girl?
@@copter2000 I certainly looked pregnant by the time I had eaten it lol.
My own take on a Honey and Chilli meets hoisin and teriyaki with chicken and egg fried rice. Twas pretty banging if I do say so.
The scorpion Tabasco sauce certainly dialled up the heat from what you’d get from the shops. Nom nom. Thanks for reminding me. Need to try that recipe again but write it down this time lol.
He is wrong on this video though. Disappointed by the level of dishonesty really. Like I may not agree with him on the Empire one, but that is just an opinion, this was him omitting stuff and his argument itself was contradicted by some of the things he said.
bro really made one of the best put together edits i've ever seen as a joke
12:20 yes this infact a point brought up in numerous sources. The orginal B1s were much more effective (the ones before naboo), and then they slowly degrade from there.
Some due to genuine cost savings that are arguebly good over all, others due to sith caused sabotage before the war (so the sith could have an easy way to improve the CIS if they wanted to draw the war out longer) and others further still due to a few succesful Republic spec ops raids (which argrubaly fall under sith sabotage due to the sith working to prevent the cis from finding out about the downgrades)
Another canon example of a B1 being super effective when unshackled from the sith plot is the B1 known as Mr Bones.
36:08 In Grievous's defense, his prowess is better showcased in the Expanded Universe and the 2003 Clone Wars series.
It’s always a good day when Media Zealot rips on Star Wars
I think part of the reason behind the banking clan’s dedication might be due to Darth Plagueis or Hego Damask being friends and business associates with San Hill and his father. He probably sunk his tentacles deep and Sidious was able to assume control.
And Gunray's rise to power was entirely secured by Palpatine
Watching this, I now understand why many CIS Supporters and Fans dislike or hate Dave Filoni. The dude makes good stuff, yes, but he has made the CIS less of a threat than they should been and only focused on the Clones. If you are to go into any CIS Forums, you could see discussions relating to Dave Filoni being talked down on by CIS members. These are people who read the lore and books that shows the effectively and brutality of the CIS that makes them a huge threat. The only instance we see the CIS being a compelling threat are the comics and the 2003 Clone Wars.
You must have not watched the movie or the show. The show made the CIS sympathetic and not all evil.
i feel like ive been transported into an alternate dimension where people have suddenly collectively forgotten what an absolute cluster fck of a mess up george lucas did with these prequel movies, the problem is everything, the problem is everything from the start. dave filoni's tv show didn't make the droid villains incompetent and ridiculous and laughable, fcking george lucas and jar jar binks did
@@michaelsalmon9832it’s more so both Dave and George Lucas, though the former did state in an interview he didn’t care for the Droids nor the CIS, only on the Republic side on things.
@@Jesse12489I did watch the show and movie, and if you’re referring to the bad batch episodes I’m fully aware of those so-called CIS Centered Episodes. I’m talking about how Dave Filoni made the CIS less threatening and not taken seriously. I do appreciate they made the CIS Sympathetic but it is overshadowed by the comedic and incompetency shown in TV.
@@apolloknight9521 There was a few episodes of the Clone Wars and Rebels that show a different side of the CIS. If yu watch it with a Delete scene in Attack of the Clones you can really see the CIS not the Corporate Alliance wanted to fight. They just wanted to leave. The show mainly focus the main CIS army and villains but not the people of the CIS. I guess you could say the same for the Republic. You can say what about the average Republic citizen. All we see is Clones. It wasn't until the Bad Batch we get to see how the galaxy feels. What about the people of the CIS or Republic.
the B1 droid is actually extremely impressive when you think about it, they can be built at shocking speeds for dirt cheap and can somehow still manage a degree of sentience.
its a shame the separatists could not find out how to effectively use them.
You can say that the Separatists were set-up to fail by Sidious.....
But there were only a couple of other people in the CIS in the people who knew that. Everyone else probably wanted to win the war.
I mean Dave Failoni had a Hand in making them what they are. Comically evil, doing evil things because they are evil. Because of his incompetence I know have to suffer the Star Wars Fans that claim that if Clones were evil they fight for the Separatists.
I may have suggested this before, but it would be cool to see a few videos on individual James Bond Villains that were too stupid to win. With 26 movies, I'm pretty sure there are at least a handful of villains you could make videos on how their plans wouldn't have worked.
The true James Bond villains are the producers who didn't let Radiohead's Man of War be an official Bond theme
@@jamesmeow3039
It was too subversive for the Broccoli’s.
Blofield getting dropped from a chopper, into the industrial piping of a huge building, disagrees.
Goldfinger for one.
I'm really surprised there aren't any yet.
The majority of them fit in to this category by one common thing: They don't simply execute Bond when given the chance.
General Grievous's decision to join the CIS is more due to an event that occurred in his past when he was a warlord. A rival faction had attacked his faction and his faction retaliated. Then when his faction gained the upper hand in the conflict, his rival ran to the Republic demanding that they intervene. They did intervene and sided with the rival despite the fact that they had attacked him first.
It’s actually much worse sounding than that. More than a warlord, Grievous was a folk hero as important as the ones in myths and legends real people have followed religiously, and instead of it being an attack of a rival faction, it was a war of extermination launched on his people by an off-world invasion.
The -international- galactic community’s response was so far removed from the facts of the circumstances that it’s in the running for one of the most visceral inversions of moral values in worldbuilding history.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious just let the rebellion happen so he could relive the glory days of the Clone Wars.
Even if the Separatists were supposed to fail, the 2008 series makes you genuinely wonder how the Republic ever had a problem with them. Sidious wanted them to fight a brutal war that would stretch the Republic thin but it's surprising how the CIS even functions looking at the 2008 series, it makes Sidious almost seem stupid that he puts his faith into people like Grievous and Dooku that get captured every week.
You really can't excuse that level of flanderization especially when they were shown to be pretty competent before.
The more I revisit the 2008 Clone Wars series, the more clear it becomes to me that the series and its writing has always been terrible in many regards. Even more infantile and embarrassing humour than in the Prequels, with major characters like Grievous and Dooku and 99% of the CIS being turned into nothing but comical buffoons or utterly weak and incompetent caricatures.
Only for many of us we either have nostalgia goggles so we don't see the issues, or we just don't think about the series to a critical extent outside of the flashy light spectacle and emotional joyride that it is.
In the original canon pre-‘08 palpatine had to sabotage the CIS a few times because they were beating the republic too hard
In the original canon pre-‘08 palpatine had to sabotage the CIS a few times because they were beating the republic too hard
@@boush1177😢🤓🤓
It doesn’t help that TCW retconned several important characters and events from the EU. General Grievous, instead of being a terrifying Jedi-slayer, is a stereotypical mustache-twirling villain who’s constantly thwarted and defeated by our main characters, power-scaling be darned. The bounty hunter Durge is a non-entity here, even though his inclusion would provide a much more credible threat to the Jedi and Republic in general. Durge’s Lance, one of the Separatists’ most successful campaigns, is not included in TCW, even though it would make the series way more accurate to the EU and interesting. Quinlan Vos is retconned from being an undercover Jedi in danger of falling to the dark side under Dooku to a laid-back clone of The Dude from The Big Lebowski. I could go on, but I would hope the point is clear
The droids are great. They have blasters and don't use them until they are in melee range and they love to move into melee range.
I think the Separatists were 'stupid' partially because of plot armour. In reality, a droid army would be really threatening.
This was a battle of attrition for the Jedi, not matter the thousands of droids that they could destroy, the Separatists could easily replace them, replacing the Jedi Commander in other hand way harder and they numbers began to linger slowly till the end of the war, when Sidious began Order 66.
Man, I get so giddy when a new video drops. Christmas came early!
In defense of the Jedi, Obi-wan was outright told, and I imagine he told the council.
And then they decided to do nothing about it, like when it was confirmed that Dooku was integral to the creation of the clone army
My favorite part is the Techno Union 🤣, and the comparison between the Skakoan and Dalek is kind of interesting and it's more interesting when you realize that George Lucus is a fan of Doctor Who and he did involve with the cartoon series, or it could just be random coincidence.
Everyone saying the droid army is bad is clearly suffering from memory loss, forgetting how - even without vehicles - the battle droids overpowered highly skilled and massed Jedis in the Geonosian Arena in Episode 2. And this was a very contained battlefield, just imagine if the Jedi had to face them on open ground. If the CIS would not have been puppeteered by Palpatine, they would have wiped the floor with the Jedi and Republic, especially since they wouldn't even have the clone army - only local militia from the core worlds.
Part of that was because no Jedi up to that point ever had to fight such a battle.
Sure, Jedi could hold against a fee dozen armed attackers, most from a single direction, but the battle at the arena was just severe sensory overload.
Which is why the few who survive wouldn't have much trouble against large open battlefields in the future.
I can agree with this. Everyone forgets that the main protagonist crew of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Mace Windu, Rex, Yoda, and more weren't the standard for fighting skill and power. They were actually fighting freaks of nature with, at times, ridiculous amounts of plot armor. In all actuality, the Republic was arguably losing the war for the majority of the time. The show, comics, and books realistically only cover the moments where the MCs succeeded and looked cool doing so.
Things like the IGBC and trade federation were supposedly neutral in the war. People like Sann Hill and Nute Gunray pretended to be scapegoats as “rogue members” of the companies. The republic probably knew the companies were dealing with both sides but they wouldn’t have been able to do much given how vital they were to the galactic economy
well openly anyway they didn't quite have enough evidence to just nationalize them for the war
Thats Disney canon. In the old EU the entire megacorps seceded alongside whichever planets housed them and their businesses. Even if you want to hear disney canon out, setting up an army would cost such a tremendous amount for the 'rogues' that the 'neutral traders' would still have to be basically supply them. Effectively the Republic's money would pay for the battle droids which ravage their worlds anyway.
@@GrivehnThis was the case before Disney even bought stars wars, the cg Clones wars cartoon had shown the Trade Federation, Techno Union, and the Banking Clans still having representatives in the Republic Senate with their senators still speaking out in the Senate room. And the CG Clone Wars cartoon is actual canon and was made with George Lucas involved in it himself unlike the EU Books and whatnot.
@@brandonlyon730 Im fully aware and I fully couldnt care less. Feloni is a hack, and Disney is a non-canon mess. Clone Wars works as the old Multimedia Project, things have their place and make sense. Cant say the same about 'canon'.
@@Grivehn Bullshit. KDY and Sienar was part of the Techno Union but they remained Republic. We also see IGBC under the Empire.
Man I fucking love General Grievous. Whether he's a DiMaggio-voiced death machine or bumbling asthmatic comic relief Shaleesh is a homie.
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
Said every Star Wars character ever.
In defense of the tactical droids, they are competent in making strategy when the factors are grounded in reality. Their accuracy rating isn't a boast, it's simply true. It's just that the main characters have plot armor and are written to beat the odds.
It's like someone asking you "What's 1=1?" you'll be laughing and answering "2", then the guy pulls some voodoo shit and said "Nuh uh it's actually 1+1=3 because Cthulhu said so"
For a better depiction of the Clone Wars, I suggest the comics and novels released between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, they do a much better job of presenting the conflict than TCW did (especially when presenting Grevious).
Also I'm surprised the Separatists didn't win through the power of Techno...
If you read the novels it's commonly alluded to the fact that the Republic really doesn't have much sway past the inner ring and mid range worlds; a lot of farther worlds were effectively own their own and were exploited or had a tough time of it breeding resentment
Separatist battledroids with good programing and no sabotage from space wizards would be one of the most powerful sci-fi armies ever. They'd steamroll the clone army and would probably fight a decent war even against Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k, as quadrillions of guardsmen and battle droids fight each other all the time.
guardsmen vs b1 droid?.
same thing just with one side be meat and the other be metal.
thought the guardsmen would have a problem during attrition as there corpse(if not corpse starched first) would draw disease carrions and germs whose would make the guardamen sick not a robot problem thought.
Yep. If the droids here didn’t feel pain, overconfidence, or fear they’d be a controlled army on par with Skynet
There's a reason The Terminator is scary and these battle droids are not. One is a lethal machine that is hyper-optimized for its purpose, and the other is a weakly built robot with all the flaws of a human soldier.
Pretty sure the creators of The Clone Wars just realized that the Separatists would have seemed too sympathetic if all they did was defend their own planets. So they tried to put them in the aggressor position as much as possible.
As far as Sidious goes and how he brilliantly orchestrated the rise of the Empire but then couldnt aftually run it. I think it is also canonically stated that once he achieved his goal, he became more invested in his personal hobbies and vices than running the empire.
The separatists didn't win because Palpatine wanted to Republic to win. Honestly you could fault dooku for not just betraying Palpatine the moment the war started. Dooku could have steam rolled the republic and drown Palpatine in droid bodies. It's like dooku didn't realize he held all the cards and didn't play them.
Are there actually examples for well run civilisations??
An April fools episode. A civilization that should exist... Its a documentary on ants 🐜.🤣
I always thought the way the Turian Hierarchy from Mass Effect was structured was pretty good.
no.that's why they all collapse one day...
The last civilisation that had a "well run" was Nazi Germany. Unfortunately the "allies" destroyed it
there are several, they have issues because dramas demand it but for one example, look at the wizard word from Harry Potter. they have their own country, economy, culture, etc, and they also have the ears of world leaders. every British prime minister was educated on the wizarding world and kept under constant surveillance. so if the wizard needed to silence them, it could be done at a moment's notice, this also allowed them to shut down areas and roads when doing things that are hard to hide, like moving a dragon. this also meant no one would legally accidentally walk into the wizard world. no survey teams, news crew, etc.
IG series droid cost 65,000k, which is 65 times as much as the standard battle droid, more than 3 times more than a droideka. Making IG army is just implausible
The Clone Wars ruined battle droids. In games like Republic Commando, they could actually be intimidating.
The B1 were still pushovers. The B2 and droidekas however were absolutely terrifying.
@@AAhmou I wouldn't call them "pushovers" as a rule. They were cannon fodder, sure, but they're still dangerous in large numbers.
The battle droids are only so fragile and non-intimidating because they’re going up against clones, the most elite organic soldier to exist, and Jedi, who have the force and lightsabers. Well there’s also some stupid things like them feeling pain and whatnot, but they fair far better against regular soldiers.
I'm a massive PT/CW fan and I'm laughing my ass off at this. This is awesome!
The separatist main factions be like:
-the jewish caricature
-the chinese caricature
-the japanese caricature
-the communist caricature
The droid army under the CIS was meant to fail. Palpatine specifically wanted an army that would lose against the "Republic" so that he could take power.
Yes, which they mentioned multiple times in the video, if you actually watched it. Saying "Sidious wanted it that way" doesn't explain why the Separatist leaders stupidly allowed themselves to be manipulated, or why Dooku went along with his master's sabotage of the Confederacy. Yet everyone in the comments still insists that is a valid excuse for the crazy stupidity of the entire Confederacy.
Regarding your criticism of the B1s around 12:00 I remember some piece of star wars lore (or maybe my own headcannon) that the star wars universe actually had much more advanced AI, like basically more advanced than human, about a decade or two before phantom menace, but there was some kind of robot revolution, so all subsequent units had to be "dumbed down".
It would especially apply to your question as to how a malfunction can make a B1 much more effective. I think it's simply because what malfunctions is the "dumbing down" part of the hardware/software, which allows the droid to operate at full mental capacity.
He also immediately switches sides which would suggest that the fear of a second robot revolution was justified.
It does leave there question of why they weren't simply made with an older programming method, but maybe they lost the technology to do that in some way. Like it was cheaper to add a piece of software or hardware to limit the droids' intelligence instead of retooling the production lines. I don't know, just my thoughts.
It also casts their attempts at surrender as struggling against that programming, which certainly casts the whole "shooting a droid after he dropped his weapon and raised his arms" thing in a new war-crimey light, since the B1s wouldn't be "cold, unfeeling machines" as you call them, but sapient beings, struggling against a kind of mind control.
Not to mention the knock-on effects this interpretation has on other things. I mean 16:00 "I killed 100,000 sapients, but it's fine, because my religion tells me they don't have souls" is something that's usually said by the bad guys, but what do I know.
The amount of work you clearly put into these is sincerely impressive.
One of the few cases where this was part of the point, as it was purposefully built not to stand for long. That and Star Wars always makes the bad guys into total buffoons.
Unlike the OT, the Separitists where just nothing more than a farce to keep Palpatine's senate campaign going. Stuff like this is why I find the Prequels the most tolerable part of SW.
Yeah but also Media Zealot spewed a bunch of bullshit and omitted a ton of stuff to create his argument. It is contradictory nonsense. The fact is the CIS is crap by design, it isn't actually crap, like even if Sidious still limited droid troop numbers and intelligence of droids, they'd still wreck the Republic easily.
@@civilwarfare101 really? Even including the Old Republic stuff?
@@jsb6975.ah.crapbaskets
They are also tolerable.
its kinda funny how the B1 droids are pretty much the most human acting character in Star Wars. The Clones, Jedi/Sith, Rebels, Empire, and Republic all act like robots, but the robots act like people.
the behavior of B-1 battle droids truly is the worst part. Their design can be justified with them being cheap to mass produce. But showing fear and surrendering is not what you want from the army that you don't care if survived the battle. Far better to get off as many shots as possible before going down.
The CIS are actually if anything the most believable faction in the Star Wars movies simply because they were intended to lose. Sidious wanted a threat that would let him take control of the senate, banking system and military under special war powers but a threat that, while initially looking unbeatable, would actually pose no threat at all. It was even designed so the CIS army could all be turned off with the flick of a single switch. General Grievous provides us with the most believable character of the whole lot in the Clone Wars as he is clearly the only one with any kind of intelligence who was not in on the plot... and he regularly expresses his frustration at the Sepratist leaders and the hopeless Battle Droid army he is forced to lead.
When Sidious encountered the Trade Federation and Techno Union who were both stupid enough to believe they could conquer the galaxy with a bunch of B1 droids he must have been rubbing his hands while struggling to contain his laughter. When he found a bunch of other dissatisfied largely non-human worlds dumb enough to go along with it he must have fallen out of his seat with the opportunity thrown into his lap. And yet when you look at history, this kind of stupidity has repeated itself many times with alliances of hopelessly inadequate armies trying to take on an actually organised and professionally structured force and unbelievably full of their own superiority until it is proven otherwise... just without a SIth Lord pulling the strings behind the scenes.
I hate to be the Star Wars fan, but someone has to do it.
*1. (Bad Battledroids)*
Keep in mind that the Galaxy had been demilitarized for 1,000 years. In order to create an army that could stretch across its entirety, you couldn't exactly favor quality in any way. There's a reason why the Republic had no drive to replace to clones. While the B-1 droids were obviously inept in many cases, they could fill out the majority of the roles necessary to fight a war, especially given the Confederacy's (relatively) tiny population. These B-1's managed the navy, the defense of planets, logistics, and basically the entire war effort. They were comparatively horrible in combat, but they could be produced at a rate that the galaxy had never seen before, and were actually pretty effective. Keep in mind, they were basically fearless soldiers with decent weapons, the actual caliber of their effectiveness doesn't actually matter that much. Look at Nazi Germany, for instance; they had the best tanks and guns, but couldn't produce them, while the allies had good guns, and stomped them.
*2. (Evil tactics)*
The majority of the evil tactics we see in the Clone Wars are performed by General Grievous, who was actually remarkably evil even by CSI standards. Disregarding this being intentional on Sidious's side, he was actually very effective. Most of the war crimes he commits (which, keep in mind, no wars for 1k years, so probably none of those) are against Clones, which are only treated a little better than droids. He was also very effective, and had a personal vendetta against the Jedi. While it seems strange to join the CSI, these worlds had been subject to horrible governance for potentially hundreds of years, and had to deal with a monastic order of Jedi being their only effective judicial system- imagine how angry some of them were.
*3. (Public Opinion)*
As I already said, the public opinion could be explained by the Jedi alienating themselves. However, a large part could also be the lack of understanding of how bad war really was. I read somewhere that the first major battle of the American Civil War had spectators watching like it was a picnic before they realized how bad war was. These people had not experienced war for a thousand years, so it's no wonder they didn't understand its brutality. Again, most of the actual betrayal was done by Grievous, and in terms of Slavery and human shields; unfortunately the Republic and later Empire did this quite a bit as well. It can also be assumed that most planets could not survive by themselves, and the Republic seemed to be genuinely extremely unpopular.
*4. (It's a kids show)*
While you showed some comics, most of your source material was from TCW and Bad Batch, both of which- technically- being kids shows. While the Clone Wars eventually delved into the grittier parts of the war, it's important to mention that it was told from the Republic/Jedi's perspective; the CSI's side were only explored briefly. In the books, it's actually painted in a very different way. While the CSI were vilified, as was part of Sidious's plan, besides his few pawns enacting these atrocities, the CSI was actually, in many ways, the good guys. The will for the movement existed in reality, and while Canon doesn't show it, a large part of the Rebellion's forces are from the Confederacy, in Legends. Again, keep in mind the Republic was oftentimes manipulated (sometimes with actual mind control) by the Jedi, whose leader was hundreds of years old. The Republic was run by almost exclusively humans, and did nothing to stop slavery, piracy, and extortion. While the movies, and to a much smaller extent TV shows, don't show it, the corruption of the Republic was real, and the hatred of it just as much. You can actually believe the rise of fascism in the Republic when you remember they had been subject to any pirate group's whim, excluding a few rich systems, for a thousand years. It also isn't shocking why many people followed the Empire; they didn't give up many of their rights in reality, it's not like the Republic was a democracy, and were finally able to live in peace.
I am very upset with myself for writing that, but bad habits die hard, I guess. Obviously, most if this stuff has been hid by Disney due to their love of "good guy bad guy" and the movies basically portraying that. But, the Republic was never portrayed as the good guys in the movies.
31:10 I love how you call him out for being the most cowardly but also the one who took the most risk lol
“Somehow, Media Zealot… returned”
Thanks
Legend! Thank you!
It's funny how Dukoo's turn to the Dark Side was because he saw through the corruption of the Galactic Senate and the hypocrisy of the Jedi Order.
Yet the Separatist nation he created was just a more delusional reflection of the Republic. The CIS fielded armies of Battle Droids. The Republic used Clone Legions. The Republic was headed by a Senate controlled by a central leader through wartime powers. Same thing with the Confederacy.
Dukoo started off with reasonable motives, but instead of working to create a better Galaxy, he let Sideous tell him what to do, and the Dark Side made Dukoo himself a hypocrite.
"The Jedi are fools, answering to a corrupt Republic led by their ancient enemy. The only logical course of action is to actively make everything worse. Welp, time to make a me cool red lightsaber."
Yeah because he became Darth Tyrannus. Darth Tyrannus' goals make the Nazis look like moral people.
It's nonsense. Weak plot.
It's the nature of the Force. The Force wants cool lightsaber fights between people with a personal connection, Father vs son, Teacher vs Student etc. It's willing to burn the Galaxy to ashes just to set the stage and betraying a former Jedi master or two means nothing compared to the opening notes of a John Williams fight scene.
Grievous was a cold, calculated tactician though, too bad his years of chasing smoking caught up to him at the worst possible time.
5:28 In Jar Jar's defense, Palpaptine played him for a chump, too, after he was put in the unenviable position of subbing for Padme's Senate seat while she was lying low to avoid all those pesky assassination attempts.
Jar Jar is a sith lord.
YES!!!! NEW EPISODE!!!! I'm gonna watch this, then binge all your episodes again
Good to see your still alive
I feel this is an easy mark. Their stupidity was by design. The emperor didn’t want a large army of awesome battle droids to deal with after taking over.
5:12 Geonosians were never displayed to be stupid, even in TCW individuals can be seen making decisions on their own that fits the current situation. That plus I believe the hive mind aspect helps to block the manipulations from Jedi mind tricks
The clone wars would be absolutely brutal for one primary reason: neither side is capable of surrendering. The clones are conditioned and the droids programmed to never break (or at least they should be, I ignore a couple counter-examples mostly on the less-likely droid side). A normal army would break and rout before it reaches 10% casualties but a droid army would (should) fight to the death with the exceptions of strategic retreats which only puts off the fighting for later. The clones with their programming chips, conditioning, and being literal child soldiers, would have a much higher rout threshold as well. This means fighting an enemy army becomes an extermination campaign.
This is where the fun begins
Sidious was ingenious for starting a civil war to grab power, afterwards most civilians would not want to back the Rebellion because it reminded them too much of the Separatists. It turns out Sidious had ordered Grievous to do as many war crimes as possible to sour the public perception of any future thoughts. The Sith thinking 100 steps ahead. Too bad the Empire was bad enough people risked the scorn and then the Empire's suppression just made it worse.
12:38 The Separatists had a whole separate class of droids made to command the other Battle Droids. You even showed one of them earlier.
When I first watched the Phantom Menace, in my early teens, I remember thinking that Sideous wasn't Palpatine. Because it was too obvious. Too simple-minded. I remember arguing that it would've been a stupid decision, and I believed that Lucas was a better story-teller than that.
Evil twin, clone, another person changing his hologram to look like Palpatine. Anything would be more engaging than the obvious... that the universe would have to be made unbearable incompetent to not notice.
I'd love to see you cover the CoG (Coalition of Ordered Government's) from Gears of War. I adore Gears of War, but the CoG can be dumb sometimes.
I do not know if I have ever laughed so much at a Star Wars video essay before (I watched this one before the Empire one)