Ho guardato anche il vecchio video sul Lectron, dovendo acquistare, dopo qualche dubbio di base, credo mi orienterò sul SmartCarb, per il fatto che mi serve fluidità ad acceleratore puntato. Grazie per l’analisi e il confronto, mi ha dato modo di essere sicuro che la mia scelta sia la migliore alle mie esigenze.
I've got a H-Series Lectron on my 17 300 XCW and its mostly pretty good.. I just can't clean up off idle response totally.. Getting very interested in trying out an SC2 this summer.
@@HPRaceDevelopment Yeah, I'm using these carbs as I hate jetting! Haha. I get tired of chasing my tail which is all that seems to happen when I try to tune a carb. 🤷🏼♂️💩
If you’re not getting good power from throttle to mid range then you are just still pretty rich just leaning it out a little bit more and that should help out a lot
I can only compare my Billetron to the stock 36mm Keihin PWK. First, I had to richen my Billetron 3/4 turn to find the sweet spot, after a full day riding I do get about a 1" drip of oil at the exhaust(running Maxima K2 at 60:1) but its where this engine is happy. As for power, the Billie gave me a stronger, smoother low-end over the Keihin. In fact on my first ride with it I got flung off some roots into a tree, because the power came on harder than I was used to.
I’ve got a 22 sherco 300 with an SC2, and it runs great once I found the sweet spot. The only issue I’ve had was that I was under the impression that the baseline clicker setting was pretty close to what the sweet spot would be. Mine wasn’t even in the ballpark. Baseline was 75 clicks, and the sweet spot is 115. At first I was concerned that something was wrong with my carb because I had to lean it out so much. I now know 3 other people with Sherco’s and one with a Beta with SC2’s and we’re all 35 to 50 clicks leaner than baseline. Would have saved myself a lot of anxiety and head scratching if I had known that the baseline setting could be so far off.
@Alan G yes, they are way too rich at baseline. I can understand them being cautious and all, and it's hard to know where to set every model. The 2020 Sherco even used a different rod (before the engine update) at least the SC is super easy to adjust on the fly. I had a SC on my 2017 KTM and it only needed to go six clicks leaner.
Wow, I thought I made a bunch of lean clicks. My sc2 has the richest rod you can get (A-Q05) and Nathan at TE told me to baseline at 78. After tuning, I'm now 95 clicks at 200' elevation, slide height set to 1.8mm. I run 100ll avgas with 32:1 Golden Spectro and I ride strictly wide open motocross.
@@mikeyc96Baseline settings necessarily reflect the most common applications using commercially available gasoline fuels. SmartCarb offers a wide range of clicker adjustments to cover the many unforeseen variables across a worldwide consumer base. Pump fuels and their composition, which are based on regulated vehicle emissions are the biggest variable. Additionally in most geographic regions, commercial motor fuel refineries change the molecular weight and composition twice every year based on seasonal changes. To minimize evaporative losses in the summer when temperatures are higher, pump fuels are refined with a heavier molecular weight (specific gravity). In the winter, when evaporative losses are lessened, pump fuels have a lighter specific gravity for easier cold starting and faster engine warmup. 110 LL has a lighter specific gravity than winter blend pump fuels , as such it "lifts" easier, so an initially leaner clicker setting would be expected, compared to a heavier pump fuel that lifts slower and needs a richer setting. Each click position equal .0012" of metering rod movement. 30 clicks is less than one clip position change on a conventional Keihin/Mikuni needle. Seems like a lot, actually it's a very small amount of change.
My Billetron runs good. I also had a leak at bowl drain. Got a new bowl assembly from Lectron. You can tighten the bowl drain gasket from the inside of the bowl too. I do get a fair amount of spooge though. It's super crisp and smooth off idle.
I have also had leaking issues with the Lectron. First it was at the float bowl gasket. Then after getting a replacement carb from Lectron, I noticed fuel residue around where the drain bolt is located. I've gone 2 full turns leaner and still getting too much spooge but the bike runs strong. Will try even leaner to see how it goes. The main things I never liked about the Smartcarb is the installation (having to trim the intake flange) and the high price. It would be nice if it came with a pre-cut flange.
You can't compare a 36mm to a 38mm they make different engine characteristics. A 38mm draws more and, let's more air/fuel flow thru it by having a bigger volume in size and, will always be a little fatter off bottom...it's only fair to compare the same size carbs.
I am comparing the best carb for my riding offered by each company but since you mentioned it the Lectron actually measures out to 34mm, smaller than the SC so by your theory the Lectron should have better bottom end. With metering rod carbs there is a lot more to take into consideration than strictly bore size.
Lectron is going in the wrong direction adding more circuits imo. Just stick with a Keihin carb if you want to tune it that much. The build quality on the new Lectrons leaves a lot to be desired.
Hey thanks for the video. If you are on a GoPro 9 or 10 you need to drop the exposure a bit. You can see how the bright areas are super washed out and the videos don’t look good. Just turn exposure compensation to -1 on the 9 or -0.5 on the 10. It’ll look at lot better in all conditions.
Excellent Video & Comparison - Used Both - Might been interesting to See Some SparkPlug Readings between the Two - Especially the OILY Lectron - In TRIALS Bike World - 26 is a Bottom End Carb and 28 is the Mid/Top - On OLD Huskies - Used a 38 for the Trees and 40 for 6th Gear Wheelies ... Thanks for a GREAT JOB !!!
Only wish the market reaches south east asia, these things are basically unheard of for most here in SEA. It's interesting to try these out especially the SC2
i also got a smartcarb 2 and even tho they sent it with the wrong tps sensor and thottle cable fitting the support they provide was outstanding and got the issue resolved. the smartcarb is definitely worth the extra couple hundred dollars
Just a friendly piece of info: both carbs were basically designed by the same guy, William “Red” Edmonston. He invented it 1967 and Lectron sold it in 1974. GM later bought Lectron and “Red” left and ventured into a better carburetor that would become the Smart Carb. The Lectron has been largely unchanged since 1967. And the Smart Carb is drastically improved with a drastic price difference. Also, don’t spray your Lectron carb with brake cleaner. You will ruin the plastic. My friend did it to his. It stated cracking but luckily does not leak. That’s one perk I can think of with Smart Carb. The clear float bowl seems gimmicky. Lectron is $500. SmartCarb is $1,000. The Smart Carb is easier to tune without disassembly or tools. The Lectron is a bit more complicated. Keep in mind you only tune these once and basically leave it alone.
Lectron's new Billetron Pro (yet another power jet added), the model their lead engineer publicly touts as being leaps and bounds better than last year's Billetron, is the same price as the SmartCarb SC2 at $699 USD.
I have my own SC2 already, been switching back and forth on my bike the past two months. Honestly not much to say about the tuning, I just go a few clicks leaner each ride until no spooge and the fuel economy is better.
Thats all the sc2 takes. When if tuned mine in I will also look at the plug after each ride ( I chop them) so while not a perfect indicator that plus the feel and sound and you can dial it in pretty easy.
Unfortunately ill never buy another smart carb. customer service was good, but could never get a new bike to run correctly with a smart carb. JD jet kit and lectron work flawlessly.
I appreciate your review, sorry you had to suffer riding those trails to get the research 😉. Seems the only problem with the Lectron is that it needs a few more hoses (tubes) 🙄😂. Enjoy the riding season 🤙. I know I will. Also in the PNW🤘🏻
Great to hear your thoughts on the two products. As mentioned on the Fbook post, the Lectron sounds way smoother at part throttle even though you said it was less powerful.
I get the comments on the sound a fair bit. I dunno, I'll take better performance over better sound any day. The Lectron from 0-1/4 throttle was awful.
@@PNWEnduro Copy that, for sure. I have both on the Keihin, smooth engine sound and excellent torque. I know why you use the sealed carbs, as we've discussed, but they still seem like a compromise for riding with a lack of torque down low, but excellent fuel economy and altitude compensation. Nothing for free as always 🙂
@@PNWEnduro Could it have been your test sample? If some people have issues with leaking while others don't, that sounds like a quality variance issue and perhaps there's variances elsewhere in the carb. Not good news in anycase.
@@Danger_mouse don't be so hasty to lump the SmartCarb in with the Lectron regarding bottom end torque/tractability or to suggest that the SmartCarb lacks torque at all compared to the Keihin - that's not what we're seeing on our instruments. As demonstrated in this video and for those who've tried both, the SmartCarb has a decided advantage in providing strong bottom end response due to its patented variable throttle rate venturi shape. Only one of these products leads the metering rod carburetor concept, and it's not the carb that entered the market in the 70s.
@Captain it appears the leaking float bowl is a common issue and there are other problems as well. You'd think if they were sending out a carb specifically to be reviewed they would have made damn sure it's not one with manufacturing defects. It's good in a way though as this is the experience a regular could very well get when purchasing one.
the smartcarb seems like a better running motor overall. i think its interesing how you mentnion that smartcarb doesnt sound as strong... i want to use this on a supermini build so i am struggling on what to go with.
I mentioned in the beginning of the video SC makes a 36 and 38 where Lectron only offers a 38. I'm testing the best available carb for my riding each company offers.
@@PNWEnduro Yup, I did hear you say that difference in size at the beginning. Which is also why I wondered why the Lectron 38 didn't get a little bit of forgiveness while you noted it's soft or bogging bottom response. I don't remember how you phrased it but you were quite low in the RPM range. I like your content as always, hope you're channel is growing.
@Scott Forrest I'm told the Lectron actually measures out to be a 34mm so smaller bore than the SC2. I don't have the tools or know how to measure that properly myself but it is interesting information. I was quite disappointed in the Lectron, seeing the float bowl leaking as well just added to the disappointment, it was completely dry after a few days of sitting.
@@PNWEnduro I think the size is measured at the inside diameter (ID) of the reed side of the carby, not the bell/air filter side. I also think that metric ruler or tape measure would be accurate enough to measure the ID. Using a vernier or dial caliper is even better. Or comparing the ID of each side by side, because spare time is easy to come by, right?
@Scott Forrest by now I know which one I'm sticking with anyway, performance on the trail is the deciding factor. I've taken these carbs on/off the bike enough in the past while!
I'd like to see them compared on some tarmac B roads for 10 miles through the gears, riding off-road it is hard to tell what is going on, so tarmac with GPS readout RPM + MPH
I think you should have gone with the same mm carbs to get a fair comparison. You are really riding at low revs and that favors the smaller mm carb. Higher air velocity on the smart carb. With that kind of riding you probably could go all the way down to a 34mm. Would pull like a tractor right of the idle))
I’m comparing the best available carb from each company for the riding I do. Lectron calls it a 38mm but in reality if you measure it it’s actually 34mm.
I have a 2022 sherco 300se factory, It came from the factory rich so I jetted it to my elevation and current outside temp. It ran good but I wanted more out of it, so last December I purchased a smartcarb sc2 witch I dialed it in and works really good, but having a problem with cool dense air (Washington's pacific northwest) creating condensation on the slide witch in return will cause the slide to hang up in the carb body and rev super high witch is dangerous and can't ride. Take the slide out wipe the condensation off and good to go.I have been working with Corey at technology elevated with different slides and now with a different throttle return spring hopefully something will work? Have you ran into this problem with condensation? Keep up the good work always enjoy watching your videos!!
Oh this is a bummer to hear! I have read about this issue a few times now, mainly on snowbike forums but I thought they were talking about the original SmartCarb, not the billet SC2. Looks like it has the same issue.
Not interested in that carb, adding another circuit, might as well stick with the Keihin carb at that point. Quality control at Lectron seems to be an issue as well.
By that logic the Billetron would pull harder down low, but it doesn't. Lectron calls it a 38 but any Billetron owner with 5 minutes on their hands, a telescoping gauge, and a pair of calipers can clearly see that they are 34mm carbs as measured at their narrowest cross-section which is how carburetors are, and have always been, measured. That may be why they opt not to include "mm" in their nomenclature. Even so the bottom end pull difference isn't due to the carb size, but how well each fuel system maintains signal at the metering rod (fuel pick-up and atomization). Part of what makes the SmartCarb stronger is it's variable throttle rate venturi shape. Unlike the round-bore Billetron and it's too-sudden throttle rate off idle, among other factors, the SC2 slows the throttle rate slightly, maintaining a stronger signal at the rod and therefore better performance. That's why Greg here is able to tractor through in a higher gear up those hills using the SC2.
@@SmartCarbFuelSystems Thanks for the info. I didn't know the Lectron measured 34mm at the center. As a general rule smaller carbs offer more responsiveness and torque because the stronger signal, but I take your point. The teardrop shape (upside down) of the SC is a clever design feature.
@@vintagetrikesandquads4012 yes, in general a smaller carb will offer snappier response down low compared to a larger carb. We go after the best of both ends of the throttle with our patented venturi design. Thank you for the kind words and happy riding!
Interesting to see you had 30-40 clicks leaner from stock. Chaos Causes tested one of these on a YZ250. He ended up 36 clicks leaner than “stock” and they said that was abnormal.
Not necessarily. It depends on a variety of factors, especially regional fuel composition. SA isn't the USA. 36 clicks leaner is a bit more than we'd normally see, and Justin would be, and actually was after feedback, better off with a richer setting with a slightly higher idle setting. If it helps wrap your head around just how fine the adjustment is, consider this: 30 clicks moves the metering rod the same distance as a single clip position change moves the needle in the stock carb. It's .0012 inches per click. 6X the adjustment resolution of the rod position as the H-Series Lectron and 3X the resolution of the new Billetrons.
I have a lectron, older model. just off idle it has a slight lag. but works great compared to my old Carb. the Carb no matter what I did it never ran well.
The chinese XTNG uses a different approach than Lectron to make more bottom end power. They incorporated an external adjustment that focuses on off idle fuel mixture, the first generation was just like the Lectron, it seemed to bog a little off idle and then awesome power all the way to overrev. The second generation really improved on this with the external adjustment.
Those are garbage Chinese junk that have copied Lectron’s designs. They have also tried to spam my social media pages several times. I would never support that company.
The first generation XTNG carburetor was a nearly identical clone of the Lectron H Series, right down to the metering rod thread pitch. In fact the rods were interchangeable between the two and XTNG would direct customers to purchase Lectron metering rods. Imagine how Lectron might feel about that. Not to mention the venting check-valve design and copyright theft of SmartCarb Fuel Systems' marketing and user manual graphics and text. The second generation XTNG takes a step backward toward more fuel circuits and greater tuning complexity. That it may give an improvement over the Lectron's bottom end response is secondary both to the fact that there is now a Chinese entrant to the market blatantly copying American designed/manufactured fuel system technologies and to the fact that there is a market solution already available in the SmartCarb SC2 as PNW Enduro demonstrates in this video.
In regards to the chinese stealing copyrigh...Well, that's the world we live in right now, they dominate pretty much every industry when it comes to common products, just look what whatever electronic you're using right this moment. I can only imagine how you guys feel having someone come and steal an original USA design though. I would love to try both the lectron and Sc2, but unfortunately here in Brazil the cost is very prohibitive. Anyways, appreciate your videos, best regards. Cheers from Brazil.
@@ajr.1272 I understand the world we live in. I'm typing this on my Chinese-made MacBook Pro, displayed on my Chinese-made LG monitor. Yet I represent an entirely American-made fuel system technology in the SmartCarb that doesn't fall into the realm of a "common product." In fact nothing else in this market does what it does, not even the Lectron. It's one thing to dominate in the development of intellectual property, as the West still does. It's another to dominate in the manipulation and theft thereof, the practice of which China has become adept and that which is beginning to finally backfire. As for access in Brazil we understand the challenges there too. The taxes/import duties are extreme.
@@nathandyess5310 I appreciate you taking your time to reply. In no way I meant to say that both the Smartcarb or lectron are common products. I love the idea of entirely mechanical fuel systems that offer virtually fuel injection like performance, without any of the complications or drawbacks that electronics may present on dirt bikes. Maybe one day I'll have the opportunity to install a Smartcarb on my bike. Best regards!
Hello, I have the same bike, but I have the older style lectron, when you installed the lectron, did it seem like it did not go into the intake all the way? Allen
You can't compare they are different size. That's like saying I feel the power down low with small turbo but when I put my giant turbo on I'm not feeling it at 600rpm I don't get it lol.
Yes I can. I'm comparing the best available carb for my application each company offers. Also if you measure the Lectron properly it's actually 34mm so by your logic it should be the one with better bottom end.
Sounds like you never was able to get the lectron tuned right maybe a different rod if you going out to far on the rod. Maybe get a better comparison of the two.
Im wondering if the difference you are experiencing is simply because the lectron is 38mm and the smartcarb is 36mm. Shouldnt a 36mm favour better lower end (at the expense of wide open) vs the the 38mm which should sacrifice bottom end for wide open? Maybe this isnt a level comparison?
I think 36mm is for better bottom end. My lectron leaks as well. I had to turn the metering rod 3+ turns leaner when I installed turned the metering rod 3 full Switched back to stock.
No it's not. Though it did "borrow" some features, it lacks perhaps the most critical one: integrated float bowl venting. That's what allows the SmartCarb to compensate for wider elevation/temp changes compared to other carburetors. It's also the reason the SmartCarb is able to fuel the entire rev range using just the metering rod (true single circuit).
@@shannonshepherd433 the SmartCarb is the latest in the long line of Edmonston designed and inspired metering rod style carburetors. Predecessors include the Posa-Fuel, Lake Injector, Lectron, Ei Blue Magnum, the EDVAC and Edelbrock QuikSilvers I and II respectively, and the AFT HVV - the direct predecessor to the SmartCarb circa the mid 90s. The SmartCarb, more or less in its current form, came out in the early 2000s with serial production starting in 2012.
@@PNWEnduro massive difference in our testing the power valve changes position and the bottom end torque is enourmous in the soft/left mode. Riding in MX mode makes it feel like im in the wrong gear.
I just got my new sc2 and installed it. Won't idle seem rich. But says not to adjust it till after 1 hour riding. I'm guessing idle adjustment is ok.do you know witch meter rod you have ? Mine is 07 I'm in Washington as well
It will be rich to start, I'm 30 clicks leaner than the baseline setting right now. As you lean it out the idle will also improve. I have the AQ-11 rod.
@@PNWEnduro I went 2 clicks leaner lot better less smoke. Then one more click leaner total 3 click it idles now only little smoke now will ride Friday see how it does
Beautiful ride, got a new 2-stroke coming this summer and been thinking of Lectron or SmartCarb since I ride some large elevation changes as well. Dang if I watched this and went "ugggh fine I'll spend more for the Smartcarb!" Had a Lectron before and could never get the spooge settled, I know it's part of a 2-stroke but seemed to have a good bit.
I've had my bike up to 9000' and it ran about the same as at sea level with no adjustments. The better fuel economy is a big plus for those big mountain rides as well.
Love the testing and commentary. Looking for the right carb for a '03 CR250R... was totally going for the Lectron till I started seeing the SC2... Between your rundown, and other content creators who talked about how poor customer service was from Lectron (especially if you didn't buy the carb directly from them) compared to the Famous customer service at Super Carb... I think it's an extra couple 100 well worth it... Thanks!
@@FireAntJR honestly we didn't go the SmartCarb route after all. My Son went with a Billetron 38 on his 03 CR250R, and is completely thrilled with it. Says that it's the best "trail riding" carb. He says he will know more next season(winter snow has hit) when it's totally all dialed in... but even as it stands right now it's Amazing. Super responsive and way more power. Went from sluggish, to "watch the front wheel"...
@Rob Mack thanks for the response! I've been trying to figure out some troubles with an sc2 on my 2002 cr250r. When it runs its lights out everywhere in the rpm. Unfortunately, it's been quirky so far and I'm not too sure why
For those with the Billetron, look at the drain crush washer. If it’s copper replace it with the silver one from Lectron, there is an upgrade that won’t leak. Also, consider the new Xcelerator metering rod. Game changer on the low end torque.
I think this comparation r not true.. u must be campare on 38 lectron & 38 lectron too.. not 38 compare with 36.. 36 must be more respond from 38.. it's is because 38 lag more then 36..
Already mentioned in other comments if you measure the Lectron properly it’s actually 34mm not 38. Either way, this comparison is the best carb offered from each manufacturer for this application.
not happy with Lectron Carbs. I just bought a $900+ carb off them and they just came out with a new slide for the carb I bought Now they want another $125+ for it ....pissed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Really appreciate the candid review. Would be interesting to hear Lectron's response to your test results.
Always appreciate your unbiased reviews Greg. Man that footage is amazing! Keep up the good work brotha.
Thanks. Next weeks video has some different trails at this riding area that are really spectacular!
Ho guardato anche il vecchio video sul Lectron, dovendo acquistare, dopo qualche dubbio di base, credo mi orienterò sul SmartCarb, per il fatto che mi serve fluidità ad acceleratore puntato. Grazie per l’analisi e il confronto, mi ha dato modo di essere sicuro che la mia scelta sia la migliore alle mie esigenze.
I've got a H-Series Lectron on my 17 300 XCW and its mostly pretty good.. I just can't clean up off idle response totally.. Getting very interested in trying out an SC2 this summer.
STIC
@@HPRaceDevelopment Yeah, I'm using these carbs as I hate jetting! Haha. I get tired of chasing my tail which is all that seems to happen when I try to tune a carb. 🤷🏼♂️💩
@@JonathanVee I think people overthink it - start bottom up. Spend the most effort on the needle - it's where you ride at
If you’re not getting good power from throttle to mid range then you are just still pretty rich just leaning it out a little bit more and that should help out a lot
@@juniorcarmack8741 lean usually decreases power
I can only compare my Billetron to the stock 36mm Keihin PWK. First, I had to richen my Billetron 3/4 turn to find the sweet spot, after a full day riding I do get about a 1" drip of oil at the exhaust(running Maxima K2 at 60:1) but its where this engine is happy. As for power, the Billie gave me a stronger, smoother low-end over the Keihin. In fact on my first ride with it I got flung off some roots into a tree, because the power came on harder than I was used to.
Looked into getting a Smartcarb for my 4T. Was disappointed to see a sticker of $900! Cant wait for the day these are affordable
Troll status...
I’ve got a 22 sherco 300 with an SC2, and it runs great once I found the sweet spot. The only issue I’ve had was that I was under the impression that the baseline clicker setting was pretty close to what the sweet spot would be. Mine wasn’t even in the ballpark. Baseline was 75 clicks, and the sweet spot is 115. At first I was concerned that something was wrong with my carb because I had to lean it out so much. I now know 3 other people with Sherco’s and one with a Beta with SC2’s and we’re all 35 to 50 clicks leaner than baseline. Would have saved myself a lot of anxiety and head scratching if I had known that the baseline setting could be so far off.
@Alan G yes, they are way too rich at baseline. I can understand them being cautious and all, and it's hard to know where to set every model. The 2020 Sherco even used a different rod (before the engine update) at least the SC is super easy to adjust on the fly. I had a SC on my 2017 KTM and it only needed to go six clicks leaner.
Mine was delivered at 83 clicks but even at 150 clicks it's still too lean.
Trying a new needle now.
Wow, I thought I made a bunch of lean clicks. My sc2 has the richest rod you can get (A-Q05) and Nathan at TE told me to baseline at 78. After tuning, I'm now 95 clicks at 200' elevation, slide height set to 1.8mm. I run 100ll avgas with 32:1 Golden Spectro and I ride strictly wide open motocross.
@@mikeyc96Baseline settings necessarily reflect the most common applications using commercially available gasoline fuels. SmartCarb offers a wide range of clicker adjustments to cover the many unforeseen variables across a worldwide consumer base. Pump fuels and their composition, which are based on regulated vehicle emissions are the biggest variable.
Additionally in most geographic regions, commercial motor fuel refineries change the molecular weight and composition twice every year based on seasonal changes. To minimize evaporative losses in the summer when temperatures are higher, pump fuels are refined with a heavier molecular weight (specific gravity). In the winter, when evaporative losses are lessened, pump fuels have a lighter specific gravity for easier cold starting and faster engine warmup.
110 LL has a lighter specific gravity than winter blend pump fuels , as such it "lifts" easier, so an initially leaner clicker setting would be expected, compared to a heavier pump fuel that lifts slower and needs a richer setting.
Each click position equal .0012" of metering rod movement. 30 clicks is less than one clip position change on a conventional Keihin/Mikuni needle. Seems like a lot, actually it's a very small amount of change.
My Billetron runs good. I also had a leak at bowl drain. Got a new bowl assembly from Lectron. You can tighten the bowl drain gasket from the inside of the bowl too. I do get a fair amount of spooge though. It's super crisp and smooth off idle.
I have also had leaking issues with the Lectron. First it was at the float bowl gasket. Then after getting a replacement carb from Lectron, I noticed fuel residue around where the drain bolt is located.
I've gone 2 full turns leaner and still getting too much spooge but the bike runs strong. Will try even leaner to see how it goes. The main things I never liked about the Smartcarb is the installation (having to trim the intake flange) and the high price. It would be nice if it came with a pre-cut flange.
Use a exacta blade + a Dremel on the flange of the air boot it works wonders.
Interesting. I have a Lectron H series on my YZ250 and it pulls like a mule up hills at low revs.
You can't compare a 36mm to a 38mm they make different engine characteristics. A 38mm draws more and, let's more air/fuel flow thru it by having a bigger volume in size and, will always be a little fatter off bottom...it's only fair to compare the same size carbs.
Except for the fact that the Billetron 38 is actually a 34mm at the venturi throat and should have a better bottom end torque curve than the 36mm SC2.
I am comparing the best carb for my riding offered by each company but since you mentioned it the Lectron actually measures out to 34mm, smaller than the SC so by your theory the Lectron should have better bottom end. With metering rod carbs there is a lot more to take into consideration than strictly bore size.
Well said!!
Well you need to remeasure with caliper cause it does measure pretty damn near to 38 with micrometer
You don’t pay attention much do you
Fascinating. Thanks for the review. Love hearing the Sherco!
Its Summer 2023 and Lectron has a PRO version w a pilot circuit for low rpm power. Would love to see the reviews now.
Lectron is going in the wrong direction adding more circuits imo. Just stick with a Keihin carb if you want to tune it that much. The build quality on the new Lectrons leaves a lot to be desired.
Hey thanks for the video. If you are on a GoPro 9 or 10 you need to drop the exposure a bit. You can see how the bright areas are super washed out and the videos don’t look good.
Just turn exposure compensation to -1 on the 9 or -0.5 on the 10. It’ll look at lot better in all conditions.
Thanks, I'll look at my settings.
What is the color of the Spark Plug?
0 to 1/8 throttle.. 1/8 to 1/2...etc
Or don't we Check that any more?
I don't know.. Just asking.
The exact comparison video I have been looking for!
Good stuff!
Excellent Video & Comparison - Used Both - Might been interesting to See Some SparkPlug Readings between the Two - Especially the OILY Lectron - In TRIALS Bike World - 26 is a Bottom End Carb and 28 is the Mid/Top - On OLD Huskies - Used a 38 for the Trees and 40 for 6th Gear Wheelies ... Thanks for a GREAT JOB !!!
The price of the smartcarb over the lectron is nuts for the Canadian consumers!! Lectron was a lot more affordable!!
Billetron $599 SC2 $699 USD.
Sweet ride and vid bud - great day.
Thanks for being a part of the test!
Only wish the market reaches south east asia, these things are basically unheard of for most here in SEA. It's interesting to try these out especially the SC2
Rock Shop Thailand stocks them
i also got a smartcarb 2 and even tho they sent it with the wrong tps sensor and thottle cable fitting the support they provide was outstanding and got the issue resolved. the smartcarb is definitely worth the extra couple hundred dollars
Thank you! Always happy to help!
Is it true that crashing a bike with the smart carb prevents it from starting for like 15 minutes? I’ve read that a few times
Just a friendly piece of info: both carbs were basically designed by the same guy, William “Red” Edmonston. He invented it 1967 and Lectron sold it in 1974. GM later bought Lectron and “Red” left and ventured into a better carburetor that would become the Smart Carb.
The Lectron has been largely unchanged since 1967. And the Smart Carb is drastically improved with a drastic price difference.
Also, don’t spray your Lectron carb with brake cleaner. You will ruin the plastic. My friend did it to his. It stated cracking but luckily does not leak. That’s one perk I can think of with Smart Carb. The clear float bowl seems gimmicky.
Lectron is $500.
SmartCarb is $1,000.
The Smart Carb is easier to tune without disassembly or tools. The Lectron is a bit more complicated.
Keep in mind you only tune these once and basically leave it alone.
Currently the Smartcarb is $699 and the Lectron Billetron is $599 in USD.
Lectron's new Billetron Pro (yet another power jet added), the model their lead engineer publicly touts as being leaps and bounds better than last year's Billetron, is the same price as the SmartCarb SC2 at $699 USD.
If\when you get an SC2 I would love to see a video on tuning the carb and your thought process when doing it.
I have my own SC2 already, been switching back and forth on my bike the past two months. Honestly not much to say about the tuning, I just go a few clicks leaner each ride until no spooge and the fuel economy is better.
Thats all the sc2 takes. When if tuned mine in I will also look at the plug after each ride ( I chop them) so while not a perfect indicator that plus the feel and sound and you can dial it in pretty easy.
Unfortunately ill never buy another smart carb. customer service was good, but could never get a new bike to run correctly with a smart carb. JD jet kit and lectron work flawlessly.
what bike
I appreciate your review, sorry you had to suffer riding those trails to get the research 😉. Seems the only problem with the Lectron is that it needs a few more hoses (tubes) 🙄😂. Enjoy the riding season 🤙. I know I will. Also in the PNW🤘🏻
Yes the research is tough but somebody has to do it!
Great to hear your thoughts on the two products.
As mentioned on the Fbook post, the Lectron sounds way smoother at part throttle even though you said it was less powerful.
I get the comments on the sound a fair bit. I dunno, I'll take better performance over better sound any day. The Lectron from 0-1/4 throttle was awful.
@@PNWEnduro
Copy that, for sure.
I have both on the Keihin, smooth engine sound and excellent torque.
I know why you use the sealed carbs, as we've discussed, but they still seem like a compromise for riding with a lack of torque down low, but excellent fuel economy and altitude compensation.
Nothing for free as always 🙂
@@PNWEnduro Could it have been your test sample? If some people have issues with leaking while others don't, that sounds like a quality variance issue and perhaps there's variances elsewhere in the carb. Not good news in anycase.
@@Danger_mouse don't be so hasty to lump the SmartCarb in with the Lectron regarding bottom end torque/tractability or to suggest that the SmartCarb lacks torque at all compared to the Keihin - that's not what we're seeing on our instruments. As demonstrated in this video and for those who've tried both, the SmartCarb has a decided advantage in providing strong bottom end response due to its patented variable throttle rate venturi shape. Only one of these products leads the metering rod carburetor concept, and it's not the carb that entered the market in the 70s.
@Captain it appears the leaking float bowl is a common issue and there are other problems as well. You'd think if they were sending out a carb specifically to be reviewed they would have made damn sure it's not one with manufacturing defects. It's good in a way though as this is the experience a regular could very well get when purchasing one.
the smartcarb seems like a better running motor overall.
i think its interesing how you mentnion that smartcarb doesnt sound as strong... i want to use this on a supermini build so i am struggling on what to go with.
Man that thing sounds stupid smooth.
But the lectron isnt tuned right so does this comparison have any weight?
Only watched half the vid so maybe we will get to that
Thanks for the comparison! What was the difference in fuel usage?
It was close but we did not get enough miles to really tell. That's why I did not mention it any further.
Good info and definitely a nice vid. Why not compare 2 of the same size though? More apples to apples, no?
I mentioned in the beginning of the video SC makes a 36 and 38 where Lectron only offers a 38. I'm testing the best available carb for my riding each company offers.
@@PNWEnduro Yup, I did hear you say that difference in size at the beginning. Which is also why I wondered why the Lectron 38 didn't get a little bit of forgiveness while you noted it's soft or bogging bottom response. I don't remember how you phrased it but you were quite low in the RPM range. I like your content as always, hope you're channel is growing.
@Scott Forrest I'm told the Lectron actually measures out to be a 34mm so smaller bore than the SC2. I don't have the tools or know how to measure that properly myself but it is interesting information. I was quite disappointed in the Lectron, seeing the float bowl leaking as well just added to the disappointment, it was completely dry after a few days of sitting.
@@PNWEnduro I think the size is measured at the inside diameter (ID) of the reed side of the carby, not the bell/air filter side. I also think that metric ruler or tape measure would be accurate enough to measure the ID. Using a vernier or dial caliper is even better. Or comparing the ID of each side by side, because spare time is easy to come by, right?
@Scott Forrest by now I know which one I'm sticking with anyway, performance on the trail is the deciding factor. I've taken these carbs on/off the bike enough in the past while!
I'd like to see them compared on some tarmac B roads for 10 miles through the gears,
riding off-road it is hard to tell what is going on, so tarmac with GPS readout RPM + MPH
I think you should have gone with the same mm carbs to get a fair comparison. You are really riding at low revs and that favors the smaller mm carb. Higher air velocity on the smart carb. With that kind of riding you probably could go all the way down to a 34mm. Would pull like a tractor right of the idle))
I’m comparing the best available carb from each company for the riding I do. Lectron calls it a 38mm but in reality if you measure it it’s actually 34mm.
I have a 2022 sherco 300se factory, It came from the factory rich so I jetted it to my elevation and current outside temp. It ran good but I wanted more out of it, so last December I purchased a smartcarb sc2 witch I dialed it in and works really good, but having a problem with cool dense air (Washington's pacific northwest) creating condensation on the slide witch in return will cause the slide to hang up in the carb body and rev super high witch is dangerous and can't ride. Take the slide out wipe the condensation off and good to go.I have been working with Corey at technology elevated with different slides and now with a different throttle return spring hopefully something will work? Have you ran into this problem with condensation? Keep up the good work always enjoy watching your videos!!
Yes I have a little bit in the winter at the time I did not know what was causing it. Please keep me posted on what you find out.
Oh this is a bummer to hear! I have read about this issue a few times now, mainly on snowbike forums but I thought they were talking about the original SmartCarb, not the billet SC2. Looks like it has the same issue.
What oil ratio and oil are you using?
Motul 710 50:1 as per manual
Where are you riding? Looks amazing
You should do a new comparison with Lectron Pro series.
Not interested in that carb, adding another circuit, might as well stick with the Keihin carb at that point. Quality control at Lectron seems to be an issue as well.
You really need to compare the same size carbs. At such low speeds, the smaller carb (the 36mm) will have the advantage.
By that logic the Billetron would pull harder down low, but it doesn't. Lectron calls it a 38 but any Billetron owner with 5 minutes on their hands, a telescoping gauge, and a pair of calipers can clearly see that they are 34mm carbs as measured at their narrowest cross-section which is how carburetors are, and have always been, measured. That may be why they opt not to include "mm" in their nomenclature. Even so the bottom end pull difference isn't due to the carb size, but how well each fuel system maintains signal at the metering rod (fuel pick-up and atomization). Part of what makes the SmartCarb stronger is it's variable throttle rate venturi shape. Unlike the round-bore Billetron and it's too-sudden throttle rate off idle, among other factors, the SC2 slows the throttle rate slightly, maintaining a stronger signal at the rod and therefore better performance. That's why Greg here is able to tractor through in a higher gear up those hills using the SC2.
@@SmartCarbFuelSystems Thanks for the info. I didn't know the Lectron measured 34mm at the center. As a general rule smaller carbs offer more responsiveness and torque because the stronger signal, but I take your point. The teardrop shape (upside down) of the SC is a clever design feature.
@@vintagetrikesandquads4012 yes, in general a smaller carb will offer snappier response down low compared to a larger carb. We go after the best of both ends of the throttle with our patented venturi design. Thank you for the kind words and happy riding!
Doesn't the 2021 have 100-125 more hours than the 22?
Around 80 more. I've had both carbs on my own bike, same results.
@@PNWEnduro Decent.
Question? It’s the SmartCarb 38mm
SC is a 36mm.
Interesting to see you had 30-40 clicks leaner from stock.
Chaos Causes tested one of these on a YZ250. He ended up 36 clicks leaner than “stock” and they said that was abnormal.
Not necessarily. It depends on a variety of factors, especially regional fuel composition. SA isn't the USA. 36 clicks leaner is a bit more than we'd normally see, and Justin would be, and actually was after feedback, better off with a richer setting with a slightly higher idle setting.
If it helps wrap your head around just how fine the adjustment is, consider this: 30 clicks moves the metering rod the same distance as a single clip position change moves the needle in the stock carb. It's .0012 inches per click. 6X the adjustment resolution of the rod position as the H-Series Lectron and 3X the resolution of the new Billetrons.
Hopefully this vid comes across Lecton's lap because it'd be interesting what they have to say about it since it's a brand new product from them.
I have been discussing the poor performance of the carb with Lectron.
@@PNWEnduro did they have any suggestions?
Do you wear different glasses when you are riding? Where did you get them from?
I use prescription safety glasses, can buy them from most eyeglass places.
do they fit good with goggles and helmets?
@@PNWEnduro
HOw is the fuel economy or have a better mileage between them?
I have a lectron, older model. just off idle it has a slight lag. but works great compared to my old Carb. the Carb no matter what I did it never ran well.
The chinese XTNG uses a different approach than Lectron to make more bottom end power. They incorporated an external adjustment that focuses on off idle fuel mixture, the first generation was just like the Lectron, it seemed to bog a little off idle and then awesome power all the way to overrev. The second generation really improved on this with the external adjustment.
Those are garbage Chinese junk that have copied Lectron’s designs. They have also tried to spam my social media pages several times. I would never support that company.
The first generation XTNG carburetor was a nearly identical clone of the Lectron H Series, right down to the metering rod thread pitch. In fact the rods were interchangeable between the two and XTNG would direct customers to purchase Lectron metering rods. Imagine how Lectron might feel about that. Not to mention the venting check-valve design and copyright theft of SmartCarb Fuel Systems' marketing and user manual graphics and text.
The second generation XTNG takes a step backward toward more fuel circuits and greater tuning complexity. That it may give an improvement over the Lectron's bottom end response is secondary both to the fact that there is now a Chinese entrant to the market blatantly copying American designed/manufactured fuel system technologies and to the fact that there is a market solution already available in the SmartCarb SC2 as PNW Enduro demonstrates in this video.
In regards to the chinese stealing copyrigh...Well, that's the world we live in right now, they dominate pretty much every industry when it comes to common products, just look what whatever electronic you're using right this moment. I can only imagine how you guys feel having someone come and steal an original USA design though. I would love to try both the lectron and Sc2, but unfortunately here in Brazil the cost is very prohibitive. Anyways, appreciate your videos, best regards. Cheers from Brazil.
@@ajr.1272 I understand the world we live in. I'm typing this on my Chinese-made MacBook Pro, displayed on my Chinese-made LG monitor. Yet I represent an entirely American-made fuel system technology in the SmartCarb that doesn't fall into the realm of a "common product." In fact nothing else in this market does what it does, not even the Lectron.
It's one thing to dominate in the development of intellectual property, as the West still does. It's another to dominate in the manipulation and theft thereof, the practice of which China has become adept and that which is beginning to finally backfire.
As for access in Brazil we understand the challenges there too. The taxes/import duties are extreme.
@@nathandyess5310 I appreciate you taking your time to reply. In no way I meant to say that both the Smartcarb or lectron are common products. I love the idea of entirely mechanical fuel systems that offer virtually fuel injection like performance, without any of the complications or drawbacks that electronics may present on dirt bikes. Maybe one day I'll have the opportunity to install a Smartcarb on my bike. Best regards!
Hello, I have the same bike, but I have the older style lectron, when you installed the lectron, did it seem like it did not go into the intake all the way? Allen
The top of the intake flange between the motor and the carb has two small nubs at the top, if you haven’t already, cut those off.
What was the fuel consumption difference?
Pretty close.
Can i use this on a old Honda xl 600-r? Will go from the dual Carb...And yes i know have to use the innlet from a xr 600
You can't compare they are different size. That's like saying I feel the power down low with small turbo but when I put my giant turbo on I'm not feeling it at 600rpm I don't get it lol.
Yes I can. I'm comparing the best available carb for my application each company offers. Also if you measure the Lectron properly it's actually 34mm so by your logic it should be the one with better bottom end.
My lectron works way better than my smart carb did for my YZ 250X
You can not compare a spark arrested pipe to a non spark arrestor my shorty never leaks my turbine core always yz250x billetron
I’ve ran both carbs on my bike, same pipe, same results. The purpose of the video was to compare them back to back.
did you use the same oil and gas in both bikes? types of oil will really make a difference with the amount of drule on the silencer and power.?
Same fuel, different brand premix. I had the same results testing both carbs on my bike though.
Sounds like you never was able to get the lectron tuned right maybe a different rod if you going out to far on the rod. Maybe get a better comparison of the two.
Im wondering if the difference you are experiencing is simply because the lectron is 38mm and the smartcarb is 36mm. Shouldnt a 36mm favour better lower end (at the expense of wide open) vs the the 38mm which should sacrifice bottom end for wide open? Maybe this isnt a level comparison?
Except if you measure the Lectron it's actually 34mm not 38 as they advertise. So by that theory it should have better bottom end than the SC.
is this without oil injection?
Yes.
what's the spiggot OD on the smart carb3 36mm ?
The engine-side spigot OD is 46mm and the filter-side spigot OD is 62.4mm.
I think 36mm is for better bottom end. My lectron leaks as well. I had to turn the metering rod 3+ turns leaner when I installed turned the metering rod 3 full Switched back to stock.
Psi big air genius carb pretty much the same as the smart carb?
No it's not. Though it did "borrow" some features, it lacks perhaps the most critical one: integrated float bowl venting. That's what allows the SmartCarb to compensate for wider elevation/temp changes compared to other carburetors. It's also the reason the SmartCarb is able to fuel the entire rev range using just the metering rod (true single circuit).
@SmartCarb Fuel Systems how long has the smart carbs been out?
@@shannonshepherd433 the SmartCarb is the latest in the long line of Edmonston designed and inspired metering rod style carburetors. Predecessors include the Posa-Fuel, Lake Injector, Lectron, Ei Blue Magnum, the EDVAC and Edelbrock QuikSilvers I and II respectively, and the AFT HVV - the direct predecessor to the SmartCarb circa the mid 90s. The SmartCarb, more or less in its current form, came out in the early 2000s with serial production starting in 2012.
@SmartCarb Fuel Systems i bought my frist psi big air genius carb in 09
whaaa riding im MX mode? theres like no bottom end there!
MX mode? lol. I run in the hot mode all the time, not much of a difference imo.
@@PNWEnduro massive difference in our testing the power valve changes position and the bottom end torque is enourmous in the soft/left mode. Riding in MX mode makes it feel like im in the wrong gear.
36mm will pull better at low rpm. If lectron is just little difference that's good being a 38mm
It’s not just a little different the Lectron was garbage at 0-1/4 throttle. It also measures 34mm not the 38 they claim, or so I’m told.
I'm thinking about buying one. Just not sure about lectron or smart carb or 36 to 38 I've got a 18 ktm 250sx for trail rides
I just got my new sc2 and installed it. Won't idle seem rich. But says not to adjust it till after 1 hour riding. I'm guessing idle adjustment is ok.do you know witch meter rod you have ? Mine is 07 I'm in Washington as well
It will be rich to start, I'm 30 clicks leaner than the baseline setting right now. As you lean it out the idle will also improve. I have the AQ-11 rod.
@@PNWEnduro I went 2 clicks leaner lot better less smoke. Then one more click leaner total 3 click it idles now only little smoke now will ride Friday see how it does
Beautiful ride, got a new 2-stroke coming this summer and been thinking of Lectron or SmartCarb since I ride some large elevation changes as well. Dang if I watched this and went "ugggh fine I'll spend more for the Smartcarb!" Had a Lectron before and could never get the spooge settled, I know it's part of a 2-stroke but seemed to have a good bit.
I've had my bike up to 9000' and it ran about the same as at sea level with no adjustments. The better fuel economy is a big plus for those big mountain rides as well.
@@PNWEnduro Indeed big part for me, in Colorado so all mountain riding. I forget how bad 2-strokes can be on mileage :).
A larger carb can hurt torque numbers. May increase hp but….
The 38mm Lectron is actually 34mm if you measure it.
@@PNWEnduro good info. Thanks. Hey was the SC2 a true 36mm?
Yes, it's 36mm.
Too many damn hoses on the lectron. Geez
Yeah, there sure is.
@@PNWEnduro my buddy put the billetron on his 19 Sherco 300 and can’t get it exactly right. Got that lag off the bottom.
Love the testing and commentary. Looking for the right carb for a '03 CR250R... was totally going for the Lectron till I started seeing the SC2... Between your rundown, and other content creators who talked about how poor customer service was from Lectron (especially if you didn't buy the carb directly from them) compared to the Famous customer service at Super Carb... I think it's an extra couple 100 well worth it... Thanks!
they are both made by the same person lol
@@2stroketyson79 Not true.
Did you ever end up getting a smart carb for your cr? If so how has it been for you ?
@@FireAntJR honestly we didn't go the SmartCarb route after all. My Son went with a Billetron 38 on his 03 CR250R, and is completely thrilled with it. Says that it's the best "trail riding" carb. He says he will know more next season(winter snow has hit) when it's totally all dialed in... but even as it stands right now it's Amazing. Super responsive and way more power. Went from sluggish, to "watch the front wheel"...
@Rob Mack thanks for the response! I've been trying to figure out some troubles with an sc2 on my 2002 cr250r. When it runs its lights out everywhere in the rpm. Unfortunately, it's been quirky so far and I'm not too sure why
For those with the Billetron, look at the drain crush washer. If it’s copper replace it with the silver one from Lectron, there is an upgrade that won’t leak. Also, consider the new Xcelerator metering rod. Game changer on the low end torque.
I think this comparation r not true.. u must be campare on 38 lectron & 38 lectron too.. not 38 compare with 36.. 36 must be more respond from 38.. it's is because 38 lag more then 36..
Already mentioned in other comments if you measure the Lectron properly it’s actually 34mm not 38.
Either way, this comparison is the best carb offered from each manufacturer for this application.
2 different bikes man can't really compare to each other
It’s the same model bike. Can’t get a closer comparison.
Your mix is off
No, it’s not.
For a Yamaha aerox 70, what size Electronic carb would you need? Stage.6 ported
not happy with Lectron Carbs. I just bought a $900+ carb off them and they just came out with a new slide for the carb I bought Now they want another $125+ for it ....pissed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!