Yeah the problem with dnf it was not the controls it was that the game is kusoge. I mean if that's your sort of thing that's fine plenty of people of that sort of thing but it's not a game that you know is going to get any sort of lasting popularity.
Here's my hot take: All fighting games single player modes should be made with the express purpose of teaching new players the ins and outs of how to play in a fun, engaging, creative way. Don't give new players too many words to read, that just feels like homework, show don't tell!
As a fighting game “old head” in his mid 40’s I agree 100 percent that fighting game players are way better now than they were back in the day. New fighting games are a little easier input-wise but the level of play has def gotten way better.
In the old days you didn't know what you didn't know, so you could go years not properly understanding mechanics- my cousins and I played SC2 daily for like 6 months before realizing GI was in the game. Also in the arcades you might catch some random dude do some tech you'd never seen before, but you don't understand what happened and you never see him again and so you don't really learn. It's crazy how much online tutorials, match replays and being able to look up solutions to interactions has caused everyone to level WAY up. The average player just has SO much more knowledge than the old days, and improves that much quicker.
Back in the old days in my home town, there wasn't any move list, no guide or anything. People only knew a few special moves in each game. We didn't even consider blocking because everyone just mashed lol. People are definitely way better at FGs now.
Here's my hot take: Every character i play is fair,balanced and over all well deaigned. Every other character that exists are cheap,broken,and are in a desperate need of nerfs
@@TJBlack3.5 idk,I think the person that could not tell the original comment was a joke and takes it seriously probably has no right to tell whether or not someone is sensible
9:00 There was a really funny match at Evo 2009 where Alex Valle was playing Sabre, and Sabre started doing corner mixups with Sakura where she did EX tatsu, jump HK, and then landed either left or right. The crowd was losing their minds because they'd never seen it before. She'd been in the game for 4 months and none of them knew anything about her corner pressure. Even as recently as SF4, people didn't have the resources to see tech that would have been easily found out and used by everyone the day the character dropped.
I'm gonna softly disagree with this, while most of the time the best characters in the game tend to be extremely difficult to play in a way that shows them as the best. There are characters who are either bad or straight downgrades to others, mostly in older games, like MK3 Scorpion (worse Human Smoke) & MK9 Sheeva, Melee Kirby & Bowser, pretty much everyone in DBFZ when Bardock dropped, etc.
@@QuantemDeconstructorI have no idea what games you are playing, so many games top tiers have been top tier solely because they are easy to play and are just strong fundamentally. Tier list placement generally has no bearing on character difficulty.
The low tier warrior mindset also goes hand in hand with the mirror match tweet. They pick low tier giving then an excuse when they lose, the character gets buffed and used more and the person now encounters more mirror matches and the ego is not having it
The idea of a weight mechanic sounds interesting and makes sense when you think about it, but is absolutely rubbish when applying it to a game and playing with it.
People should not tell new players to pick the generic / easy characters. Just a character that peaks a person's interest will motivate them to play the game more. Also learning a hard character is enjoyable to some people.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATII had to do this with Street Fighter 6. I tried learning Chun-Li, realized she's a defensive character and I am nowhere near that type of player so I went with Luke instead.
I feel half and half on this. Its fine to recommend an easy character but if someone has more interest in a harder character, let them. Basically keep the recommendation as just that: A recommendation, not a requirement.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATII literally just did this in Blazblue. Tried a few difficult characters. Then switched to Es. Suddenly the whole game felt incredibly fun.
Older games are definetly harder than new games but Old games aren’t nearly as hard to learn as the old heads make them out to be. Any newer top player can easily pick up 3s or Alpha or Marvel 2 and be at least competent in it in a short amount of time. Execution was only harder because games had no input buffering back then so you actually had to time Shit properly and balance was only a suggestion for a lot of these games. Take those 2 aspects away then it is just like learning any other video game.
And, as the First Time 3rd Strike video @jmcrofts made with @Brian_F proves - a "newer" player can pick up an "older" game and still learn high level mechanics in a matter of minutes. Dude was getting multiple parries off basically right away.
@@Zenbon111 The point of the thread is that older players are not somehow better because older games are supposedly harder. Brian started with SFIV (hence "newer") and picked up perfect parry with ease. He's experienced, but he's not Diago, and he's not even that good of a player, as his tournament results show. I didn't feel I had to spell all that out to get the point across. So I'm not sure what your brain rot comment is about, but keep your toxic BS to yourself.
Nah def cap, the average player will find it easier to learn sf5 than sf3 or sf2. Not just mechanics, but also inputs. When I tried playing sf4 for the first time, every input autocorrected and the game was way easier.
@@lmao1660 yeah there was no input buffering or very minimal buffering so it made everything feel way more difficult to do but I guess it shows how one simple mechanic can single handedly cut the difficulty of the genre in half.
I’d say good graphics are definitely important. If you are gonna play a game for a long time, you want to be look at something that’s actually pleasing. An ugly game can make you depressed after looking at it for a long time
@@Seydaschu I understand long term like Marvel 3 where you only play on the snow land because of the colors but they really got to get rid of training stage from versus play. Shits boring, no one likes it except for the players, and it's just a scrub stage at the end of the day. Lab your combos then show up on jungle.
Regarding the "Discord Fighter" tweet, I wanna say I like me some Type Lumina I am in several FG discords Getting a match in Type Lumina is still a chore
I have mixed feelings about discord games. On the one hand, there are so many games these days with fast, skill-based matchmaking that really raise the bar for ease of play. Sometimes you've had a long day, and you just wanna quickly boot something up for half an hour and not go through these extra steps and wait around just to play a video game. On the other hand, I remember being in yugioh discords where multiple casual players would complain about only getting matched with competitive deck users, and I'd be like, dude you're in a ygo discord, lfg with some of the other peeps here complaining about the same thing. Not that ygo and discord fighters are the same, but yeah.
I'd say Scrawt's take is probably at least partially true in some cases, but the annoyance of pinging on Discord is definitely the bigger reason some people get turned off of more niche games.
part of the weirdness of the mirror match is your kinda just being more careful cause you know if you show too much your opponent can figure it out right there cause they are the same character, you both end up kinda labbing as the fight goes down
This is what makes them interesting - you're truly playing versus the player, not the character. ...assuming you actually know your own character as well as you hope you do. xD
I'm 42 and I can agree. I remember when SamSho first came out and washing a whole crowd of people at the bowling alley strictly because I had basic experience with fighting games I got to spend time on (I didn't live near the arcade, but one of the supermarkets had a Street Fighter II cab and I played a bunch of fighters on console). Knowledge was power then and is power now.
"we need to gatekeep more" is a bad take until you get gatekept from your own game by the people who cried against gatekeeping to get in. then "the game isn't for you", it's not a new concept.
Gatekeeping is not inherently bad when you are trying to keep out people that just want to radically change the product into something completely unrecognizable just to cater to their delicate sensibilities
Bro these takes are exactly the reason why we need to gatekeep more. You want the next SF to be like DNF duel and have a roster where every character is Twelve?
We shouldn't shun new players, we should make the game accessible and be welcoming. But we definitely shouldn't sacrifice the games and systems that makes this genre special. That's the better gatekeeping obama said
High execution characters have slightly (not totally) more of a pass for being obnoxious to play against. Every toptier in BB is annoying but I have a begrudging respect for Rachel, Carl and Izanami players who've really taken the time to master those difficult characters. Now Mai mains on the other hand…
I mean comparing notes of gameplay between games is one thing. Not that i think james chen was saying this but if you are comparing things like netcode, monetization, online lobbies/matchmaking i think that is totally warranted.
Early reply but man I still think the BEST thing SF6 did was have the original World Warriors as base roster, just keep those basic archetypes and then throw every other crazy thing at the wall and see what sticks, then fan favorites (Hi Sakura & Akuma) can be DLC or surprise base roster. We are not a hard crowd to please!
I disagree 100%. SF2 is way over represented, and some of those designs are only held by nostalgia. Alpha and 3 always get pushed to the side to make room for the whole 2 roster, which is totally unnecessary. Very few ppl would miss Honda and Dhalsim, (and playing against Blanka) while Makoto, Dudley, Yun, Maki, Rose, Guy, Cody etc all get sidelined… I bet my ass those characters have a way more positive impact than most SF2 characters.
@@raphaelnavarrette8156 I feel you, as Alpha 3 and 3S are my personal favs, but i am also coming at it from a casual/sales viewpoint as well, remember what happened with SF3 when it first released with a bunch of weirdos, not too well received. Casuals like dhalsim and honda and all the characters you named out side of Yun usually have way more interesting but more unorthodox playstyles if all SF going forward had a minimum og 16 at launch i feel like the original 8 are a neccessary evil, they bring in the nostalgia but more importantly dont take up precious DLC space, imagine waiting months for HONDA OR BLANKA 8 world warriors + 4 returning + 4 newbies is a good starting point
@@raphaelnavarrette8156 The most blatant symptom of that problem of "SF2 fixation" is the fact of making a new game set in a "future timeline" but its centered on the SF2 veterans and newcomers and completely ignores the SF3 roster. Not even a single one. Total non sense. The SF6 devs show a blatant bias towards SF2 and nostalgia and a bias against SF3. Sure they are the makers and do whatever they want with the story, but now i get the feeling that these guys want to retcon the future timeline to be SF6, overwriting SF3. Like they wanted to wipe out the SF3 story at least partially.
it's the best thing from a sales point of view but i would personally really want the next sf to only keep like ryu, ken and chun lee and fill the other slots with characters from other games that fill similar rolls and newcomers.
@@ManYeahTru Sorry but the mention of SF3 is a kinda forced argument. SF3 killed the series because the whole roster was changed. The problem is basically divided into the global change, and some newcomers not being appealing. The proof is that SFA, before A3, didnt have the whole veteran roster and still that didnt kill the franchise. So SF2 chars were removed... but not all of them. There was a balance. So you are overlooking the part that the "unbalanced roster" was a SF3 problem that just will never happen again.
Fighting games should never be simplified for the sake of appealing to a broader audience. Keep the complexities and make a very detailed tutorial mode showcasing what each mechanic (whether it be an overall game or character specific one) does in order for players of all kinds to understand and put effort into it. Never assume the playerbase are complete morons.
Istg everytime I search up dnf duel high level gameplay it's either the castle of the silver feet stage wannabe or the teahouse stage wannabe from MK1. Plus it's always playing the same damn theme in the background.
Get rid of scaling like entirely? I mean that kinda sounds like it would lead to every FG being an unbalanced mess like for example marvel 3 where one touch from any character would be instant death. Look how crazy the damage gets in some of these games even with the harsh scaling, take it away and it’s just whoever lands the first blow wins
I unironically agree, we need to gatekeep far more than we do. Appealing to people who don't play fighting games in an attempt to bring them into the community makes fighting games worse
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI In a perfect world, I'd love for changes to be made that allow new, non-fighting game players to enjoy the genre WHILE ALSO retaining the current fans of the genre (I want "discord fighters" to have much higher player bases so they don't have to rely on discord). However, this often never happens. I hate it when more people enjoy stuff at the cost of the current fan base. Strive is a controversial game, because on one hand it brought in a lot of people who never played the series/genre, but at the same time it turned off a lot of people who've been playing the series for years. I want to enjoy stuff too
James Chen's tweet is in a weird state. In theory, it's an absolutely frigid take. Everyone agrees. But in practice, it's spicy as hell. "My game > your game" is still way more common than it should be.
I agree with the seeding comment, people should earn their spots as they used to. A fully random bracket has some of the most exciting matches and upsets too.
Fighting games should have one character that is the best character. Put Ken in S+ tier and everyone else in B tier. Tournaments top 96 should be 96 of the same character. I want to see balanced gameplay where each player has the same tools, and it's the way they utilize the tools that makes the difference. This would end all discussion about how people are 'carried' by their character, and also there wouldn't be balance patches that suddenly nerf a character that a pro has a thousand hours on and hurt their income.
My hot take is that the worst thing that happened to FG design were 3S players, because they both love single hit-confirming and parries and those two things just make FGs more irritating than fun. edit: my second hot take is that "tier lists don't matter" is bullshit and a character can be better than another character regardless of level of play. People just say that because they get tired of people bitching about playing bad characters or because they play a top tier themselves.
No Tier lists literally dont matter In fact statistically a lot of "low tiers" are significantly easier to win with in lower levels of play than high tiers Sf6 having a few particularly prime examples
Just found out you got a kid now. Longtime viewer and I love your vids. Some of the funniest fgc content on yt and twitch. Hope everything goes good for you man
My worst FGC hot take? Well, I guess it'd be... Fighting games in general are at a great place right now with most of them landing anywhere from good to great. From the big names ("Street Fighter", "Guilty Gear", "Tekken", etc) to the lesser knowns ("Melty Blood", "Chaos Code", "Touhou: AoCF", etc) to even freeware stuff folks made in their free time out of passion ("E's Laf++", "Idol Showdown", etc), they all are legitimately solid fighters that almost anyone can just pick up and enjoy. Heck, as someone who follows a couple JP arcade upload channels, I'm even seeing stuff getting second leases in life with modern arcade ports ("Axel City 2", "Inahocha Dynamite Bomb", etc) and I've had a great time discovering them. It's an amazing time to like fighting games. That's why it's so baffling to me that there is so much dismissal and borderline hatred that comes out of some community members, even among some prominent figures, for any and all fighters besides the ones they are into. There are fighters I really like that I outright cannot ever bring up because they've been stigmatized that heavily and I know I will be attacked for doing so. It's happened to me before, multiple times even. Heck, one of the names that appeared in the video was one such person. Fighting games are great, the FGC is not.
Yeah, feels like the negativity gets worse and worse as time goes on. Think Social Media plays a part; no body cares if you post about how much you like a game.
I somewhat agree, I feel DLC can absolutely be strong to even the best characters, but they should always have fun & unique functions, more Strive Goldlewis, less DBFZ Bardock where every character now needs functions of that DLC's moves
My take is: While games like Strive techinacly add more variety to the fighting game scene by being a game different to any other fg, in practice they take away variety from the fighting game scene, since fighting games have to compete with each other for spots in tournaments, unlike other genres of games. If all the shiny new games want to be accessible, get rid of old mechanics, get rid of character concepts, get rid of motion inputs, ect, then all of the mayor spaces for the fgc end up having less variety instead of more. Personally, I love Smash and I'm really excited for proyect L. But I don't want the new Undernight In-birth game to have simple inputs. And while I agree Strive did the right thing by getting rid of the different wake ups from Xrd and bs like that, I don't like that they also took away cool stuff that gave the older games personality, like instant kills and characters actually having their own interesting mechanics.
Here’s a couple hot takes: I too hate mirror matches. And I believe fighting games like SF implementing Modern Controls is a necessary feature for newcomers who have no experience in fighters.
We failed to gatekeep and now people think Bridget isn't a top tier trap, and the reasonable ones are forced to say Bridget isn't a boy lest they be banned and made pariahs.
We need to gatekeep new players AND make new games simpler. EVO should just be the sweatiest, oldest players playing Fantasy Strike, Footsies, or SNK Heroines in a church confessional booth. The winner is known only by The Figureheads™️.
1) For accessibility reasons, disabled people should have extra rules regarding controllers. 2) We need more women only and disabled only tournaments with prize money.
There was controversey before from women in the FGC being against women-only tournaments. I have no stance, but it's up to them if they want it or not.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI I wasn't aware of that. However, I am very active in the disability esports scene and it makes sense for us. Accessibility often involves trial and error, so to have disabled-only tournaments allows for unique learning experiences. The knowledge acquired can then be used in the general scene. Also, sometimes it is simply fun to know who is the best disabled SF6 player. Lastly, giving disabled people a stage, inspires other disabled people to give esports a try. Who knows how much talent is sidelined because we are too scared to try.
Mirror matches are weird. I know everything about my character like their weakness, strings, mixups punishes but when i face them. My mind throws all that knowledge away and i dont know how to deal with them even though i main them
New characters are cool and are necessary but you can’t just abandon all the fan favorites in favor of having an entirely brand new roster. That’s a recipe for disaster that could literally cripple a franchise for years based on how it’s recieved. Having all brand new everything could result in making so that people play the game and think this isn’t remotely what this franchise used to be and then dropping it which could cause low sales and then the devs get the wrong message from that thinking oh so people just are tired of x franchise so we don’t do anymore of those. Balance is key. I think the way SF6 did it is great, they brought back the original world warriors but also had like 6 brand new characters. So a third of the roster was brand new but people also had some of their favorites so it was a good mix. But yea like I said too much new is bad, too much of anything is bad and if the devs get the wrong impression it could shelve a franchise for a decade or possibly forever.
If you only ever want to play new characters, then just never play the same franchise twice and it will always be magic. Thing is - no one does that for a reason. HOWEVER - if Capcom never releases another shoto beyond Akuma, SF6 will be better off for it (and this is coming from an "oldhead" SFAlpha2 Sakura enjoyer). Say what you want about GG (Strive or otherwise), but ArcSys knows how to make interesting characters.
PLEASE DO A VIDEO TALKING ABOUT MIRROR MATCHES MATCH UP NOT BEING 5-5!! I'm super curious regarding the statement and where I can learn more about that because I'm very curious how a mirror match can't be 5-5 😮
"You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try! So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice!"
I think he said it as a joke in this video but there do exist some legit 6-4 mirrors, mostly in MK because of jank. Like in MK9 where there's no trading, if both players would get hit in the same frame, player 1 always wins. It's enough to turn the Johnny Cage mirror into a 6-4 for player 1.
Sometimes it’s smarter to button mash in a situation than try and do a specific combo. This is coming from a guy who’s done a rush down down Potemkin before. That’s fuckin scary if you can pull it out
love how people in chat areresponding to PL's take on seeding with extreme examples "I will spent $3000 to travel across the world and fight my roomate" Yeah that is BS. The chances of that happening are minimal, this is just an excuse for top players to have a fress-stress time on the pools and to generate hype on the top brackets but it ruins the competitive integrity. I agree with Perfect Legend on this one 13-0™
I completely forgot about you being a CF head like me. People have no idea how much fun we had at those tournaments and playing old school fighting games in general during the arcade era of gaming
Grappler's balancing tradeoff should not be that they are actually bad overall. That's not a tradeoff, that's a deficit. Grapplers should be good. In fact every character in every fighting game (save obvious joke characters who should not be DLC) should be designed with being good in mind. In the case of grapplers, they work really hard to be able to deal damage at all where characters who don't need to get nearly as close don't need to work as hard to get that damage. Take JP vs Zangief in SF6 for example. Zangief is rarely if at all ever going to be able to even get halfway to where the JP is to even poke him unless the Zangief can properly read and advance on the JP in which case, shouldn't he have earned the massive damage he deals to the JP in that instance? A matchup against a grappler is almost always starting out on the opponent's favor and the grappler's job is to turn that around with the hard-earned reward being higher damage. Your combos are smaller and more damaging because your goal is that one big hit. And this applies to all characters, not just the grapplers, though grapplers get the worst of the bile for how much damage they deal. They're all playing the game differently and working for the same reward. Odds are if the grappler is ruining your game, its usually a you issue, not the grappler. Of course exceptions do apply but again, that applies to all character archetypes, not just grapplers. If you are pelting me with a million projectiles and I slowly advance an inch a second to finally spinning piledrive you once for massive damage, its not that I played a cheap character who carried me. Its that I read you correctly, I answered your playstyle correctly, and I earned that huge damage you dealt to me. And it is that reading that fighting games are ultimately all about. And inversely if I die to the projectiles then I wasn't skilled enough to know how to deal with it and answer your play, meaning the win is rightfully yours. tl;dr: Designing a serious character's trade-off as they are low tier is bad fighting game design.
They are not designed to be low tier, they are designed to have weaknesses which they absolutely should in exchange for being the scariest characters up close.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI Oh I know and I'm not saying they are designed to be low tier, but I have seen many takes how a grappler being good is a problem since being bad what's keeping them balanced which I find asinine. I agree that they should have weaknesses in exchange for that power, so long as those weaknesses don't render it impossible for them to get up close at all. A character's weaknesses should be a hurdle to overcome, not a brick wall halting their progress.
I'm definitely on board with the mirror match dude. What's exactly "Weird" about it? Just because you have the same tools doesn't mean you utilize them the same way. Playstyle can be completely different even with the same character. You said it yourself, you're one of the people who looks at it as a learning opportunity, but don't act like you won't get tight if you're getting washed 10-0, because unlike every other character, there's no option select excuse for losing. Also I want FG Dev guy to elaborate more. Because I might agree that the direction of fighting game design is going towards more casual audiences (Strive, T8 mechanics etc.) And I'd say more times than not, decisions are being made not for the competitive aspect of fighting games, but more so towards appealing to the wider audience. One might even say that these Jaded old-heads are playing it safe, rather than doing new and improved stuff.
My fighting game hot take: Having a block button (like NRS fighters) is objectively more intuitive game design than holding back to block. Saying this as someone who personally prefers holding back to block and whose favorite fighting game is BBCF.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI that’s the thing: when we play VF in my scene, people speak about it in almost reverential tones. One player even assumed I was an execution god when I said VF5 was my main game. When I invite them to play, 9 people out of 10 will decline.
Second comment, I love GG and GGST but Masoma is spot on lol. Maybe earlier gears can have risk but strive can definitely tone it down even harder or remove it. Punishes passive play. Positive bonus and negative penalty is a very interesting mechanic as well.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI Which is wild because GG was kinda designed around zoners not being good. Axle was done dirty in Strive... And yet, we still ended up with Happy Chaos and Asuka. 🤷♀
My hot take is that most fighting games are really easy to get into and people just exaggerate the difficult to seem smart. Especially older games like +r, skullgirls or sf3.
There really is no need to gatekeep fighting games. People who don't like them already do that. For example, my friend says that in order to start playing a fighting game you HAVE to practice the same combo for HOURS on end ad nauseum in training mode before you can even play online because that's what the pros do. Jiyuna will tell you that if you want to learn a combo, it only takes a couple minutes worth of attempts with a long break in between sessions to get a combo sequence down. Most people will listen to my friend over Jiyuna because my friend CLEARLY understands the genre better and Jiyuna "doesn't understand how practice works". Never mind that Jiyuna once took a Championship at SEA Majors and clearly understands the genre better than most of us in his comment section.... But people are gonna believe what they want to believe, even if it's not the truth. MY hot take is that fighting games are casual games. Argue with me if you want to be wrong.
the couple of melty bros that appeared here have the worst takes damn, especially that discord one lmao also I just wanna say, I kinda like that "Japan gawk gawk" is starting to get as iconic as the shorts
That’s how I feel about mirror matches. Can’t help but feel like I’m comparing myself to the other player, but I am always happy stealing tech from them. Im always be like “wait, I could that?” lol
@ANIMEILLUMINATI Mortal Kombat games are the most commercially successful titles of the genre, so does that mean they are the best fighting games? I think we should measure game quality based on how fun the game is to play, not how well it sold when it came out 🤷♀️
My hottest take, not just fighting games, but no games out there is so hard that you have to brag about it being hard. Going to school and doing a job is harder than any game.
Nah that's whack, let people feel good about themselves. My hot take is that most people are way too humble or downplay themselves. If you get to gold 3 with Ken and then brag to me about how hard sf6 is and how much you had to work to get there, then sure hell yea dude I agree, that shit is hard, you're fucking sick for getting all the way up there in gold, you rock.
@@snowys4168 It's never about "feeling good about themselves", it's always elitism. People from all sorts of gaming communities think that their game is the hardest and other games are for babies, which then leads to gate keeping and tribalism.
This genre is more fun if you play to reach competency rather than competitiveness, but as a community there are more incentives or peer pressure for people to bait themselves into doing the latter over the former. More people would be happier if they stopped acting as if their commitment to games should emulate Ryu's SF2 ending. The "DLC characters should be strong take" is fair tbh. In card games, slow drip of new content has to strike that balance of making the game feel just new enough without flipping it upside down. And to change the game enough, it obviously helps releasing something that has a shot at being an A or S tier contender. It's interesting though, because with Strive it feels like it's the 1st time we're seeing slow drip of new content that's not a major patch or character dropping. Them announcing new moves for the whole cast at EVO and blueballing half of it by releasing some later is very much inline with what I was describing in card games : Changing just enough things that it's still the same game, but you revisit it. It's like the opposite of when Blazblue would do a version bump and "nothing worked" anymore.
I like to play low tier characters and I'm not really proud about it. I played zato since strive came out and I think he's always been on the lower side of things until recently. All I know is that eventually it felt like he got massively buffed and I was just washing people left and right. Before, I felt like I had to think ahead of time to think of what I should cover, dashes, jump ins, grabs, wake up supers, but whenever that patch was that was before the evo tourney where zato won, I didn't have to think, I just reacted. Something about zato became actually oppressive and all my matches were just me making my opponent scared to do anything. And I'm not the type of player, cough cough happy chaos players, that jump camp it out and get negative penalties all the time, so it was a crazy power trip for me. I stopped and went to learn milia. I like how scary she can be but also how scared she can be. Everything is a bit risky. I love low tiers, I stopped playing smoke in mk1 for reiko, and it's complete ass, but in all honestly for mk1 I just am ass. Reiko is still a very weak character and isn't even as cool as general shao, but I've always been a fan of him so I can't help it. I'm a kazuya player, and I play Ridley in smash but only to land a skewer. I like difficulty, but I'm sure I still suck. Especially with my perfect electric winds. Could never get em consecutively
i played arcana heart and it looks beautiful idk what your talking about i would understand if it was just the games setting or cast wouldn't appeal to you but the art style is so nice.
These takes may be bad, but you know what's worse? The fact you haven't liked and subscribed yet! Anyway, my hot take is that games ARE getting simpler, but at the same time that doesn't mean they're getting worse, most of the time. Older games can coexist with newer ones, just like they always have. And YES, GATEKEEP MORE
I don't know if this counts as a hot take but i think two major reasons why fighting games aren't as popular as other "esports" or genres of competitive/online video games is as follows: 1. Improving in a fighting game relies a lot on intrinsic motivation which simply doesn't have the same broad appeal as games that utilize or rely more on extrinsic motivation. 2. Fighting games being a 1v1 or individualistic competition. If you look at both esports and physical sports in general, team based competitions tend to perform better. This isn't to say individualistic sports can't be succesful because they certainly can and are, but if you look at the numbers i'm pretty sure team based sports and competitions draw in a lot more money and viewers. I could go into a lot more detail about both of these points but i'll leave it at that for now.
Hot takes?: I love first to 2 maximum on online matches because I want to play against a bunch of different people but I’ll feel like a dick for declining a rematch. A lot of people clamor for balance patches because it’s a way for them to get better without putting in the work. I’m not saying we shouldn’t fix stuff, but I like SF6’s approach of letting the game breathe. Patching too often due to fan opinion can lead to an unstable game where characters are overtuned too often because the true problems had not been discovered yet and they are just patching the surface level problems. Old games are terrible for new players getting into fighting games. It’s hard to learn if you get absolutely obliterated by people who have played the game for a long time. The most important thing needed to get better is just a bunch of easy to find opponents that are close to your skill level. I really don’t like basically every part of NRS games and I hate that they are consistently the most popular fighting game among casuals. By playing MK first, they get a terrible first impression of fighting games because it controls like ass and they will be reluctant to try other fgs because of it.
Hot take for classic players: "Stop crying and blaming modern control. Git gud, scrub" Take for Juri haters: "Men of culture, STAND PROUD! Juri's foot slaves for life!"
"The newest generation of fighting game developers don't like fighting games." I'd argue that they're one of the last group of devs that genuinely love their genre.
If you main Modern controls in SF6 you're legally obligated to give DNF Duel an apology
Wow good one 😮😮😮
Yeah the problem with dnf it was not the controls it was that the game is kusoge. I mean if that's your sort of thing that's fine plenty of people of that sort of thing but it's not a game that you know is going to get any sort of lasting popularity.
I loved DNF duel tbh.
Xrd would like a word
_Read_
I always applaud the man that wrote that post about mirror matches not being 5-5 as the most impressive troll job in the history of the FGC.
Port priority might make this legit
MK1 had player 1 only combos for like a week
And UltraChen or at least one of the two seriously think mirror matches aren't 5-5.
Does he know?
I ...what? 🤔🤔🤦🏿♂️
Here's my hot take: All fighting games single player modes should be made with the express purpose of teaching new players the ins and outs of how to play in a fun, engaging, creative way. Don't give new players too many words to read, that just feels like homework, show don't tell!
Agreed, but easier said than done.
GBVS single player was so bad to me, they made it some weird RPG beat em up gacha game instead of just teaching how to play the actual game
As a fighting game “old head” in his mid 40’s I agree 100 percent that fighting game players are way better now than they were back in the day. New fighting games are a little easier input-wise but the level of play has def gotten way better.
Thank the power of the internet flowing all the info quickly for that.
In the old days you didn't know what you didn't know, so you could go years not properly understanding mechanics- my cousins and I played SC2 daily for like 6 months before realizing GI was in the game.
Also in the arcades you might catch some random dude do some tech you'd never seen before, but you don't understand what happened and you never see him again and so you don't really learn.
It's crazy how much online tutorials, match replays and being able to look up solutions to interactions has caused everyone to level WAY up. The average player just has SO much more knowledge than the old days, and improves that much quicker.
Back in the old days in my home town, there wasn't any move list, no guide or anything. People only knew a few special moves in each game. We didn't even consider blocking because everyone just mashed lol. People are definitely way better at FGs now.
@@CF5656 months!?!? Bruh
Here's my hot take:
Every character i play is fair,balanced and over all well deaigned. Every other character that exists are cheap,broken,and are in a desperate need of nerfs
It's not a hot take. It's been like that in gg community for 10 years at least
What is blud gonna say about the people who beat his ass using his own main?
@@TJBlack3.5 "this is why this character is balanced,I lost due to my own lack of understanding and got outplayed."
@@21Handgunsat least you're respectable in that aspect lol
@@TJBlack3.5 idk,I think the person that could not tell the original comment was a joke and takes it seriously probably has no right to tell whether or not someone is sensible
9:00 There was a really funny match at Evo 2009 where Alex Valle was playing Sabre, and Sabre started doing corner mixups with Sakura where she did EX tatsu, jump HK, and then landed either left or right. The crowd was losing their minds because they'd never seen it before. She'd been in the game for 4 months and none of them knew anything about her corner pressure. Even as recently as SF4, people didn't have the resources to see tech that would have been easily found out and used by everyone the day the character dropped.
went to check and its an amazing video,the crowd reaction tells everything
Ye
Unless you're playing tournaments, metas and tierlists shouldnt mean shit to you, get good with who you like and try to have a good time.
I'm gonna softly disagree with this, while most of the time the best characters in the game tend to be extremely difficult to play in a way that shows them as the best. There are characters who are either bad or straight downgrades to others, mostly in older games, like MK3 Scorpion (worse Human Smoke) & MK9 Sheeva, Melee Kirby & Bowser, pretty much everyone in DBFZ when Bardock dropped, etc.
@@QuantemDeconstructor I can respect and appreciate this
@@QuantemDeconstructorI have no idea what games you are playing, so many games top tiers have been top tier solely because they are easy to play and are just strong fundamentally. Tier list placement generally has no bearing on character difficulty.
Nah, winning is fun even just on netplay.
@@jreut09 My main game, Bloody Roar Extreme, is infested with high difficulty top tiers
Jiyuna: "Western FGC content is stale"
Also Jiyuna :
Lmfao this one's pretty savage
Was talking about tournaments/event content but go off.
fighting game players have no idea on what they want in a fighting game
Not controversial though
Cold take
The low tier warrior mindset also goes hand in hand with the mirror match tweet. They pick low tier giving then an excuse when they lose, the character gets buffed and used more and the person now encounters more mirror matches and the ego is not having it
The idea of a weight mechanic sounds interesting and makes sense when you think about it, but is absolutely rubbish when applying it to a game and playing with it.
As someone who isn't a fan of weight systems in Dark Souls, I agree. Just let me wear whatever armor that looks cool, Fromsoft.
Someone hasn’t played Virtua Fighter 5. 😉
People should not tell new players to pick the generic / easy characters. Just a character that peaks a person's interest will motivate them to play the game more. Also learning a hard character is enjoyable to some people.
I think picking a hard character you like then switching to an easy character once you realize they're too hard is the way.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATII had to do this with Street Fighter 6. I tried learning Chun-Li, realized she's a defensive character and I am nowhere near that type of player so I went with Luke instead.
I feel half and half on this. Its fine to recommend an easy character but if someone has more interest in a harder character, let them. Basically keep the recommendation as just that: A recommendation, not a requirement.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATII literally just did this in Blazblue. Tried a few difficult characters. Then switched to Es. Suddenly the whole game felt incredibly fun.
Older games are definetly harder than new games but Old games aren’t nearly as hard to learn as the old heads make them out to be. Any newer top player can easily pick up 3s or Alpha or Marvel 2 and be at least competent in it in a short amount of time.
Execution was only harder because games had no input buffering back then so you actually had to time Shit properly and balance was only a suggestion for a lot of these games.
Take those 2 aspects away then it is just like learning any other video game.
And, as the First Time 3rd Strike video @jmcrofts made with @Brian_F proves - a "newer" player can pick up an "older" game and still learn high level mechanics in a matter of minutes. Dude was getting multiple parries off basically right away.
@@digitalsmearthe jmcrofts vid proved that someone who's already experienced at fighting games can pick up older ones. The brain rot is insane
@@Zenbon111 The point of the thread is that older players are not somehow better because older games are supposedly harder. Brian started with SFIV (hence "newer") and picked up perfect parry with ease. He's experienced, but he's not Diago, and he's not even that good of a player, as his tournament results show. I didn't feel I had to spell all that out to get the point across. So I'm not sure what your brain rot comment is about, but keep your toxic BS to yourself.
Nah def cap, the average player will find it easier to learn sf5 than sf3 or sf2. Not just mechanics, but also inputs. When I tried playing sf4 for the first time, every input autocorrected and the game was way easier.
@@lmao1660 yeah there was no input buffering or very minimal buffering so it made everything feel way more difficult to do but I guess it shows how one simple mechanic can single handedly cut the difficulty of the genre in half.
I’d say good graphics are definitely important. If you are gonna play a game for a long time, you want to be look at something that’s actually pleasing. An ugly game can make you depressed after looking at it for a long time
Also why we need to stop having tournaments in the training stage.
@@Seydaschu I understand long term like Marvel 3 where you only play on the snow land because of the colors but they really got to get rid of training stage from versus play. Shits boring, no one likes it except for the players, and it's just a scrub stage at the end of the day. Lab your combos then show up on jungle.
Regarding the "Discord Fighter" tweet, I wanna say
I like me some Type Lumina
I am in several FG discords
Getting a match in Type Lumina is still a chore
I have mixed feelings about discord games. On the one hand, there are so many games these days with fast, skill-based matchmaking that really raise the bar for ease of play. Sometimes you've had a long day, and you just wanna quickly boot something up for half an hour and not go through these extra steps and wait around just to play a video game.
On the other hand, I remember being in yugioh discords where multiple casual players would complain about only getting matched with competitive deck users, and I'd be like, dude you're in a ygo discord, lfg with some of the other peeps here complaining about the same thing. Not that ygo and discord fighters are the same, but yeah.
I'd say Scrawt's take is probably at least partially true in some cases, but the annoyance of pinging on Discord is definitely the bigger reason some people get turned off of more niche games.
I don't care really. I play games for the gameplay. Everything else is secondary to me.
I'll always support a dad doing low effort content, jokes aside would double sub for you if I could man
part of the weirdness of the mirror match is your kinda just being more careful cause you know if you show too much your opponent can figure it out right there cause they are the same character, you both end up kinda labbing as the fight goes down
This is what makes them interesting - you're truly playing versus the player, not the character. ...assuming you actually know your own character as well as you hope you do. xD
39 oldhead here and I absolutely agree. If you had an arcade within 30 minutes and you were friends with the owner(s) you were godly.
I'm 42 and I can agree. I remember when SamSho first came out and washing a whole crowd of people at the bowling alley strictly because I had basic experience with fighting games I got to spend time on (I didn't live near the arcade, but one of the supermarkets had a Street Fighter II cab and I played a bunch of fighters on console). Knowledge was power then and is power now.
Some of these had me DYING. Are you sure this is hot takes and not hot baits?
my hot take: playing lame is a strategy and we need to come to terms with it
"we need to gatekeep more" is a bad take until you get gatekept from your own game by the people who cried against gatekeeping to get in.
then "the game isn't for you", it's not a new concept.
Gatekeeping is not inherently bad when you are trying to keep out people that just want to radically change the product into something completely unrecognizable just to cater to their delicate sensibilities
Which is funny to me coming Dekillsage. He's a SG2E pro. And that game can be REALLY hard. Idk what more he wants.
Bro these takes are exactly the reason why we need to gatekeep more. You want the next SF to be like DNF duel and have a roster where every character is Twelve?
Twelve is the ultimate fundamentals character. No combos, no oki, etc. Just single hits. Many have been saying that Twelve *IS* street fighter.
Yes
We shouldn't shun new players, we should make the game accessible and be welcoming. But we definitely shouldn't sacrifice the games and systems that makes this genre special.
That's the better gatekeeping obama said
@@uhoh7545 Where was Twelve in Street Fighter 1 and 2?
@uhoh7545 footsies: rollback edition is the best way to describe twelve
High execution characters have slightly (not totally) more of a pass for being obnoxious to play against. Every toptier in BB is annoying but I have a begrudging respect for Rachel, Carl and Izanami players who've really taken the time to master those difficult characters. Now Mai mains on the other hand…
Mai mains are literally a cancer
Hi Zato player here. I’ve never had anyone get mad at me for snowballing them. They always say “nah Zato actually takes skill so I don’t mind”
I mean comparing notes of gameplay between games is one thing. Not that i think james chen was saying this but if you are comparing things like netcode, monetization, online lobbies/matchmaking i think that is totally warranted.
Yeah plus fighting games have bugs at launch rarely games comes out completely polished
Early reply but man I still think the BEST thing SF6 did was have the original World Warriors as base roster, just keep those basic archetypes and then throw every other crazy thing at the wall and see what sticks, then fan favorites (Hi Sakura & Akuma) can be DLC or surprise base roster. We are not a hard crowd to please!
I disagree 100%. SF2 is way over represented, and some of those designs are only held by nostalgia. Alpha and 3 always get pushed to the side to make room for the whole 2 roster, which is totally unnecessary. Very few ppl would miss Honda and Dhalsim, (and playing against Blanka) while Makoto, Dudley, Yun, Maki, Rose, Guy, Cody etc all get sidelined… I bet my ass those characters have a way more positive impact than most SF2 characters.
@@raphaelnavarrette8156 I feel you, as Alpha 3 and 3S are my personal favs, but i am also coming at it from a casual/sales viewpoint as well, remember what happened with SF3 when it first released with a bunch of weirdos, not too well received.
Casuals like dhalsim and honda and all the characters you named out side of Yun usually have way more interesting but more unorthodox playstyles
if all SF going forward had a minimum og 16 at launch i feel like the original 8 are a neccessary evil, they bring in the nostalgia but more importantly dont take up precious DLC space, imagine waiting months for HONDA OR BLANKA
8 world warriors + 4 returning + 4 newbies is a good starting point
@@raphaelnavarrette8156 The most blatant symptom of that problem of "SF2 fixation" is the fact of making a new game set in a "future timeline" but its centered on the SF2 veterans and newcomers and completely ignores the SF3 roster. Not even a single one. Total non sense. The SF6 devs show a blatant bias towards SF2 and nostalgia and a bias against SF3.
Sure they are the makers and do whatever they want with the story, but now i get the feeling that these guys want to retcon the future timeline to be SF6, overwriting SF3. Like they wanted to wipe out the SF3 story at least partially.
it's the best thing from a sales point of view but i would personally really want the next sf to only keep like ryu, ken and chun lee and fill the other slots with characters from other games that fill similar rolls and newcomers.
@@ManYeahTru Sorry but the mention of SF3 is a kinda forced argument. SF3 killed the series because the whole roster was changed. The problem is basically divided into the global change, and some newcomers not being appealing. The proof is that SFA, before A3, didnt have the whole veteran roster and still that didnt kill the franchise. So SF2 chars were removed... but not all of them. There was a balance. So you are overlooking the part that the "unbalanced roster" was a SF3 problem that just will never happen again.
Man Arcana Heart 3 is such a fun game. Definitly in my top list of fighters, the chase and Arcana mechanics are both so nice.
Pentagram best special
Fighting games should never be simplified for the sake of appealing to a broader audience. Keep the complexities and make a very detailed tutorial mode showcasing what each mechanic (whether it be an overall game or character specific one) does in order for players of all kinds to understand and put effort into it. Never assume the playerbase are complete morons.
No lie. That’s legit what I loved about Guilty Gear Strive’s and Xrd’s. They straight up teach you some cheese like Potemkin’s kara-buster
YES
DNF Duel as an example of a game with more substance than Strive is crazy
Substance is a huge reason people were disappointed in DNF
Istg everytime I search up dnf duel high level gameplay it's either the castle of the silver feet stage wannabe or the teahouse stage wannabe from MK1. Plus it's always playing the same damn theme in the background.
DNF Duel is a Kusoge.
@@collinsgichuhi8255you babies learn a new word and keep regurgitating it 💀
Hot take:
Reward execution, get rid of scaling. Make combos hard again.
Also, I agree with Jiyunas hot take.
That’s not a hot take, that’s just facts
Get rid of scaling like entirely? I mean that kinda sounds like it would lead to every FG being an unbalanced mess like for example marvel 3 where one touch from any character would be instant death. Look how crazy the damage gets in some of these games even with the harsh scaling, take it away and it’s just whoever lands the first blow wins
I unironically agree, we need to gatekeep far more than we do. Appealing to people who don't play fighting games in an attempt to bring them into the community makes fighting games worse
I hate when more people enjoy stuff.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI In a perfect world, I'd love for changes to be made that allow new, non-fighting game players to enjoy the genre WHILE ALSO retaining the current fans of the genre (I want "discord fighters" to have much higher player bases so they don't have to rely on discord). However, this often never happens. I hate it when more people enjoy stuff at the cost of the current fan base. Strive is a controversial game, because on one hand it brought in a lot of people who never played the series/genre, but at the same time it turned off a lot of people who've been playing the series for years. I want to enjoy stuff too
James Chen's tweet is in a weird state. In theory, it's an absolutely frigid take. Everyone agrees. But in practice, it's spicy as hell. "My game > your game" is still way more common than it should be.
It will never change.
I agree with the seeding comment, people should earn their spots as they used to. A fully random bracket has some of the most exciting matches and upsets too.
propper seeding benifits players of every skill level, and infact does put players into spots that they've earned
Fighting games should have one character that is the best character. Put Ken in S+ tier and everyone else in B tier. Tournaments top 96 should be 96 of the same character. I want to see balanced gameplay where each player has the same tools, and it's the way they utilize the tools that makes the difference. This would end all discussion about how people are 'carried' by their character, and also there wouldn't be balance patches that suddenly nerf a character that a pro has a thousand hours on and hurt their income.
My hot take is that the worst thing that happened to FG design were 3S players, because they both love single hit-confirming and parries and those two things just make FGs more irritating than fun.
edit: my second hot take is that "tier lists don't matter" is bullshit and a character can be better than another character regardless of level of play. People just say that because they get tired of people bitching about playing bad characters or because they play a top tier themselves.
Just be like me and never hit confirm anything.
No
Tier lists literally dont matter
In fact statistically a lot of "low tiers" are significantly easier to win with in lower levels of play than high tiers
Sf6 having a few particularly prime examples
Just found out you got a kid now. Longtime viewer and I love your vids. Some of the funniest fgc content on yt and twitch. Hope everything goes good for you man
I haven't slept in 2 months.
My worst FGC hot take? Well, I guess it'd be...
Fighting games in general are at a great place right now with most of them landing anywhere from good to great. From the big names ("Street Fighter", "Guilty Gear", "Tekken", etc) to the lesser knowns ("Melty Blood", "Chaos Code", "Touhou: AoCF", etc) to even freeware stuff folks made in their free time out of passion ("E's Laf++", "Idol Showdown", etc), they all are legitimately solid fighters that almost anyone can just pick up and enjoy. Heck, as someone who follows a couple JP arcade upload channels, I'm even seeing stuff getting second leases in life with modern arcade ports ("Axel City 2", "Inahocha Dynamite Bomb", etc) and I've had a great time discovering them. It's an amazing time to like fighting games.
That's why it's so baffling to me that there is so much dismissal and borderline hatred that comes out of some community members, even among some prominent figures, for any and all fighters besides the ones they are into. There are fighters I really like that I outright cannot ever bring up because they've been stigmatized that heavily and I know I will be attacked for doing so. It's happened to me before, multiple times even. Heck, one of the names that appeared in the video was one such person.
Fighting games are great, the FGC is not.
Yeah, feels like the negativity gets worse and worse as time goes on. Think Social Media plays a part; no body cares if you post about how much you like a game.
Agreed, DLC should be good. It’s a business at the end of the day and people will pay for a strong character.
I somewhat agree, I feel DLC can absolutely be strong to even the best characters, but they should always have fun & unique functions, more Strive Goldlewis, less DBFZ Bardock where every character now needs functions of that DLC's moves
I don't have an actual hot take but I can't believe that chatter who said "Justin Wong was never good" didn't get smacked upside the head.
That's less take and more bait 😅
My take is: While games like Strive techinacly add more variety to the fighting game scene by being a game different to any other fg, in practice they take away variety from the fighting game scene, since fighting games have to compete with each other for spots in tournaments, unlike other genres of games.
If all the shiny new games want to be accessible, get rid of old mechanics, get rid of character concepts, get rid of motion inputs, ect, then all of the mayor spaces for the fgc end up having less variety instead of more.
Personally, I love Smash and I'm really excited for proyect L. But I don't want the new Undernight In-birth game to have simple inputs.
And while I agree Strive did the right thing by getting rid of the different wake ups from Xrd and bs like that, I don't like that they also took away cool stuff that gave the older games personality, like instant kills and characters actually having their own interesting mechanics.
If you like old games, just play old games. The overly complex mechanics that defined that era are over.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI True. It is what it is.
Speaking of graphics: MK1 stages make SF6 stages look like Playstation 2 era graphics.
SF6 stages are pretty lame, yeah.
Here’s a couple hot takes:
I too hate mirror matches. And I believe fighting games like SF implementing Modern Controls is a necessary feature for newcomers who have no experience in fighters.
We failed to gatekeep and now people think Bridget isn't a top tier trap, and the reasonable ones are forced to say Bridget isn't a boy lest they be banned and made pariahs.
We need to gatekeep new players AND make new games simpler. EVO should just be the sweatiest, oldest players playing Fantasy Strike, Footsies, or SNK Heroines in a church confessional booth. The winner is known only by The Figureheads™️.
1) For accessibility reasons, disabled people should have extra rules regarding controllers.
2) We need more women only and disabled only tournaments with prize money.
There was controversey before from women in the FGC being against women-only tournaments. I have no stance, but it's up to them if they want it or not.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI I wasn't aware of that. However, I am very active in the disability esports scene and it makes sense for us. Accessibility often involves trial and error, so to have disabled-only tournaments allows for unique learning experiences. The knowledge acquired can then be used in the general scene.
Also, sometimes it is simply fun to know who is the best disabled SF6 player.
Lastly, giving disabled people a stage, inspires other disabled people to give esports a try. Who knows how much talent is sidelined because we are too scared to try.
Mirror matches are weird. I know everything about my character like their weakness, strings, mixups punishes but when i face them. My mind throws all that knowledge away and i dont know how to deal with them even though i main them
The low tier hero shit is so real. These mfs in discord will be like 1200 on ratingupdate talking like it’s testament’s fault they haven’t won evo yet
I want a manga where a modern day FGC champ gets sent back in time and he rips it up at the arcades.
hot take: i completely agree with woolie, new characters are very fun and interesting and can result in new character archetypes that ppl might love
New characters are cool and are necessary but you can’t just abandon all the fan favorites in favor of having an entirely brand new roster. That’s a recipe for disaster that could literally cripple a franchise for years based on how it’s recieved. Having all brand new everything could result in making so that people play the game and think this isn’t remotely what this franchise used to be and then dropping it which could cause low sales and then the devs get the wrong message from that thinking oh so people just are tired of x franchise so we don’t do anymore of those. Balance is key. I think the way SF6 did it is great, they brought back the original world warriors but also had like 6 brand new characters. So a third of the roster was brand new but people also had some of their favorites so it was a good mix. But yea like I said too much new is bad, too much of anything is bad and if the devs get the wrong impression it could shelve a franchise for a decade or possibly forever.
If you only ever want to play new characters, then just never play the same franchise twice and it will always be magic. Thing is - no one does that for a reason.
HOWEVER - if Capcom never releases another shoto beyond Akuma, SF6 will be better off for it (and this is coming from an "oldhead" SFAlpha2 Sakura enjoyer). Say what you want about GG (Strive or otherwise), but ArcSys knows how to make interesting characters.
PLEASE DO A VIDEO TALKING ABOUT MIRROR MATCHES MATCH UP NOT BEING 5-5!! I'm super curious regarding the statement and where I can learn more about that because I'm very curious how a mirror match can't be 5-5 😮
"You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try!
So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice!"
Port priority, also MK1 player 1 had a smaller hitbox or something so even in a mirror match player 2 would drop combos that player 1 could hit.
I think he said it as a joke in this video but there do exist some legit 6-4 mirrors, mostly in MK because of jank. Like in MK9 where there's no trading, if both players would get hit in the same frame, player 1 always wins. It's enough to turn the Johnny Cage mirror into a 6-4 for player 1.
Every FGC locals should have a 24/7 shower available for all the stinky players.
Sometimes it’s smarter to button mash in a situation than try and do a specific combo. This is coming from a guy who’s done a rush down down Potemkin before. That’s fuckin scary if you can pull it out
"i dont wanna go in the melty blood discord" reasonable
Modern is the future was a smooth brain take by Samuel Sterns himself
love how people in chat areresponding to PL's take on seeding with extreme examples "I will spent $3000 to travel across the world and fight my roomate"
Yeah that is BS. The chances of that happening are minimal, this is just an excuse for top players to have a fress-stress time on the pools and to generate hype on the top brackets but it ruins the competitive integrity.
I agree with Perfect Legend on this one 13-0™
Yup, just make sure you separate by region.
Grapplers take the most skill
As a grappler main I agree, they may have the least combo potential but take the most iq to play good
I completely forgot about you being a CF head like me. People have no idea how much fun we had at those tournaments and playing old school fighting games in general during the arcade era of gaming
A golden time that will never return...
I played xrd till its dying days... only played strive for a couple months... I can't stand the wall break mechanic.
Grappler's balancing tradeoff should not be that they are actually bad overall. That's not a tradeoff, that's a deficit. Grapplers should be good. In fact every character in every fighting game (save obvious joke characters who should not be DLC) should be designed with being good in mind. In the case of grapplers, they work really hard to be able to deal damage at all where characters who don't need to get nearly as close don't need to work as hard to get that damage.
Take JP vs Zangief in SF6 for example. Zangief is rarely if at all ever going to be able to even get halfway to where the JP is to even poke him unless the Zangief can properly read and advance on the JP in which case, shouldn't he have earned the massive damage he deals to the JP in that instance? A matchup against a grappler is almost always starting out on the opponent's favor and the grappler's job is to turn that around with the hard-earned reward being higher damage. Your combos are smaller and more damaging because your goal is that one big hit.
And this applies to all characters, not just the grapplers, though grapplers get the worst of the bile for how much damage they deal. They're all playing the game differently and working for the same reward. Odds are if the grappler is ruining your game, its usually a you issue, not the grappler. Of course exceptions do apply but again, that applies to all character archetypes, not just grapplers. If you are pelting me with a million projectiles and I slowly advance an inch a second to finally spinning piledrive you once for massive damage, its not that I played a cheap character who carried me. Its that I read you correctly, I answered your playstyle correctly, and I earned that huge damage you dealt to me. And it is that reading that fighting games are ultimately all about. And inversely if I die to the projectiles then I wasn't skilled enough to know how to deal with it and answer your play, meaning the win is rightfully yours.
tl;dr: Designing a serious character's trade-off as they are low tier is bad fighting game design.
They are not designed to be low tier, they are designed to have weaknesses which they absolutely should in exchange for being the scariest characters up close.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI Oh I know and I'm not saying they are designed to be low tier, but I have seen many takes how a grappler being good is a problem since being bad what's keeping them balanced which I find asinine.
I agree that they should have weaknesses in exchange for that power, so long as those weaknesses don't render it impossible for them to get up close at all. A character's weaknesses should be a hurdle to overcome, not a brick wall halting their progress.
Hot take: Arc Sys killed Blazblue to get more people into Strive.
Don’t like getting my tech stolen in mirrors
I'm definitely on board with the mirror match dude. What's exactly "Weird" about it? Just because you have the same tools doesn't mean you utilize them the same way. Playstyle can be completely different even with the same character. You said it yourself, you're one of the people who looks at it as a learning opportunity, but don't act like you won't get tight if you're getting washed 10-0, because unlike every other character, there's no option select excuse for losing.
Also I want FG Dev guy to elaborate more. Because I might agree that the direction of fighting game design is going towards more casual audiences (Strive, T8 mechanics etc.) And I'd say more times than not, decisions are being made not for the competitive aspect of fighting games, but more so towards appealing to the wider audience. One might even say that these Jaded old-heads are playing it safe, rather than doing new and improved stuff.
My fighting game hot take: Having a block button (like NRS fighters) is objectively more intuitive game design than holding back to block. Saying this as someone who personally prefers holding back to block and whose favorite fighting game is BBCF.
I agree and wanna add that mashing / autocombos is way more intuitive than how it is now.
Maybe so but I think intuitive isn't the point of fighting game controls. It's about mastery.
The day FG's standardize the Block button is the day I quit.
I don't fully agree with Masoma but I respect that he actually fully embraced the spirit of what the original tweet was going for. lol
I got one.
The FGC at-large is too scared to play Virtua Fighter.
Just because people don't like something doesn't mean they are "scared".
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI that’s the thing: when we play VF in my scene, people speak about it in almost reverential tones. One player even assumed I was an execution god when I said VF5 was my main game. When I invite them to play, 9 people out of 10 will decline.
13:39 Proving your point wrong with your own example is a mix up I never would've seen coming
Second comment, I love GG and GGST but Masoma is spot on lol. Maybe earlier gears can have risk but strive can definitely tone it down even harder or remove it. Punishes passive play. Positive bonus and negative penalty is a very interesting mechanic as well.
Guilty Gear has always punished passive play, that's the design of the game. You also gain meter just by walking forward.
@@ANIMEILLUMINATI Which is wild because GG was kinda designed around zoners not being good. Axle was done dirty in Strive... And yet, we still ended up with Happy Chaos and Asuka. 🤷♀
My hot take is that most fighting games are really easy to get into and people just exaggerate the difficult to seem smart. Especially older games like +r, skullgirls or sf3.
Tier list don't matter, get good or get lost.
They definitely matter.
Strive would've been lacking without the classic characters. And when you get characters like Nago, you love to see it. All about balance
I watch more animeilluminati vids now more than ever just to support papa jiyuna
There really is no need to gatekeep fighting games. People who don't like them already do that. For example, my friend says that in order to start playing a fighting game you HAVE to practice the same combo for HOURS on end ad nauseum in training mode before you can even play online because that's what the pros do. Jiyuna will tell you that if you want to learn a combo, it only takes a couple minutes worth of attempts with a long break in between sessions to get a combo sequence down.
Most people will listen to my friend over Jiyuna because my friend CLEARLY understands the genre better and Jiyuna "doesn't understand how practice works". Never mind that Jiyuna once took a Championship at SEA Majors and clearly understands the genre better than most of us in his comment section.... But people are gonna believe what they want to believe, even if it's not the truth.
MY hot take is that fighting games are casual games. Argue with me if you want to be wrong.
the couple of melty bros that appeared here have the worst takes damn, especially that discord one lmao
also I just wanna say, I kinda like that "Japan gawk gawk" is starting to get as iconic as the shorts
New characters are better than old characters that’s a FACT. Because at some point every returning character was a new character at one point
That’s how I feel about mirror matches. Can’t help but feel like I’m comparing myself to the other player, but I am always happy stealing tech from them. Im always be like “wait, I could that?” lol
I like mirror matches for that reason. Besides, it's fun to be like "oh, you play that character? Here, let me show you how to actually play them."
"Street fighter 3, how did that turn out?"
Oh it just turned into one of the greatest fighting games of all time. Nothin big
Biggest commercial flop in SF History, let’s go.
@ANIMEILLUMINATI Mortal Kombat games are the most commercially successful titles of the genre, so does that mean they are the best fighting games?
I think we should measure game quality based on how fun the game is to play, not how well it sold when it came out 🤷♀️
The most hype names to see at EVO Grand Finals?
Daigo v Hungrybox
Beat'em ups are fighting games
I actually love the Hakumen mirror match. You're basically playing Samurai Shodown
My hottest take, not just fighting games, but no games out there is so hard that you have to brag about it being hard. Going to school and doing a job is harder than any game.
Nah that's whack, let people feel good about themselves. My hot take is that most people are way too humble or downplay themselves. If you get to gold 3 with Ken and then brag to me about how hard sf6 is and how much you had to work to get there, then sure hell yea dude I agree, that shit is hard, you're fucking sick for getting all the way up there in gold, you rock.
@@snowys4168 It's never about "feeling good about themselves", it's always elitism. People from all sorts of gaming communities think that their game is the hardest and other games are for babies, which then leads to gate keeping and tribalism.
This genre is more fun if you play to reach competency rather than competitiveness, but as a community there are more incentives or peer pressure for people to bait themselves into doing the latter over the former. More people would be happier if they stopped acting as if their commitment to games should emulate Ryu's SF2 ending.
The "DLC characters should be strong take" is fair tbh. In card games, slow drip of new content has to strike that balance of making the game feel just new enough without flipping it upside down. And to change the game enough, it obviously helps releasing something that has a shot at being an A or S tier contender.
It's interesting though, because with Strive it feels like it's the 1st time we're seeing slow drip of new content that's not a major patch or character dropping. Them announcing new moves for the whole cast at EVO and blueballing half of it by releasing some later is very much inline with what I was describing in card games : Changing just enough things that it's still the same game, but you revisit it. It's like the opposite of when Blazblue would do a version bump and "nothing worked" anymore.
Agree 100%. I'm having much more fun as a casual these days.
Saint Cola needs to learn how to use punctuation; I legit couldn't comprehend what he was trying to say. Lolz
Hot take ;)
“Grapplers should be good”
NEXT
I like to play low tier characters and I'm not really proud about it. I played zato since strive came out and I think he's always been on the lower side of things until recently. All I know is that eventually it felt like he got massively buffed and I was just washing people left and right. Before, I felt like I had to think ahead of time to think of what I should cover, dashes, jump ins, grabs, wake up supers, but whenever that patch was that was before the evo tourney where zato won, I didn't have to think, I just reacted. Something about zato became actually oppressive and all my matches were just me making my opponent scared to do anything. And I'm not the type of player, cough cough happy chaos players, that jump camp it out and get negative penalties all the time, so it was a crazy power trip for me. I stopped and went to learn milia. I like how scary she can be but also how scared she can be. Everything is a bit risky. I love low tiers, I stopped playing smoke in mk1 for reiko, and it's complete ass, but in all honestly for mk1 I just am ass. Reiko is still a very weak character and isn't even as cool as general shao, but I've always been a fan of him so I can't help it. I'm a kazuya player, and I play Ridley in smash but only to land a skewer. I like difficulty, but I'm sure I still suck. Especially with my perfect electric winds. Could never get em consecutively
“Grapplers should be good”
“Next.”
💀
Were you just cursed? is so funny
Cola really made the fighting game spell take
i played arcana heart and it looks beautiful idk what your talking about i would understand if it was just the games setting or cast wouldn't appeal to you but the art style is so nice.
"Obama said we need to gatekeep better."
I heard this and laughed... then remembered the original context.
These takes may be bad, but you know what's worse? The fact you haven't liked and subscribed yet!
Anyway, my hot take is that games ARE getting simpler, but at the same time that doesn't mean they're getting worse, most of the time. Older games can coexist with newer ones, just like they always have. And YES, GATEKEEP MORE
I don't know if this counts as a hot take but i think two major reasons why fighting games aren't as popular as other "esports" or genres of competitive/online video games is as follows:
1. Improving in a fighting game relies a lot on intrinsic motivation which simply doesn't have the same broad appeal as games that utilize or rely more on extrinsic motivation.
2. Fighting games being a 1v1 or individualistic competition. If you look at both esports and physical sports in general, team based competitions tend to perform better. This isn't to say individualistic sports can't be succesful because they certainly can and are, but if you look at the numbers i'm pretty sure team based sports and competitions draw in a lot more money and viewers.
I could go into a lot more detail about both of these points but i'll leave it at that for now.
Hot takes?:
I love first to 2 maximum on online matches because I want to play against a bunch of different people but I’ll feel like a dick for declining a rematch.
A lot of people clamor for balance patches because it’s a way for them to get better without putting in the work. I’m not saying we shouldn’t fix stuff, but I like SF6’s approach of letting the game breathe. Patching too often due to fan opinion can lead to an unstable game where characters are overtuned too often because the true problems had not been discovered yet and they are just patching the surface level problems.
Old games are terrible for new players getting into fighting games. It’s hard to learn if you get absolutely obliterated by people who have played the game for a long time. The most important thing needed to get better is just a bunch of easy to find opponents that are close to your skill level.
I really don’t like basically every part of NRS games and I hate that they are consistently the most popular fighting game among casuals. By playing MK first, they get a terrible first impression of fighting games because it controls like ass and they will be reluctant to try other fgs because of it.
Burst is a terrible mechanic that ruins any game it’s included in.
FALSE
Hot take for classic players: "Stop crying and blaming modern control. Git gud, scrub"
Take for Juri haters: "Men of culture, STAND PROUD! Juri's foot slaves for life!"
BBTAG was (and still is) considered a begginers fighting game, Yet the game doesnt feature a block button like OTHER newer FGs
MK feels like two tanks fighting
It is not that I only play bottom tier characters, it is that I have the most fun with grapplers
Hot take: Versus games clear one on one games free.
Team games are not for me.
That 5 bucks take so insane, what shapes do you even have to contort your brain into to come up with that logic
Thats facts, there are indeed 7-3 mirror matches, the zato mirror in strive for instance or the pw mirror in skullgirls
"The newest generation of fighting game developers don't like fighting games." I'd argue that they're one of the last group of devs that genuinely love their genre.